Stop Being Scared of Fighting with Your Partner with Sterling K. Brown and Ryan Michelle Bathe

Black power couple, actors, and college sweethearts Ryan Michelle Bathe and Sterling K. Brown share how they’ve maintained their 30+ year relationship when times get tough, and how they’ve learned to manage the highs and lows of working in entertainment. Plus, Ryan and Michelle talk about the reality of women being impacted differently when it comes to supporting family and career. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com http://imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 0:00Michelle Obama?

  You know.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  May I ask you a question that will probably be cut out of the podcast?

• 0:03Michelle Obama?

  No.

• 0:04Craig Robinson?

  Oh, yes. Yes, you can.

• 0:06Michelle Obama?

  Craig's like, please.

• 0:06Speaker 00

  He's got it.

• 0:07Craig Robinson?

  Yes, you can.

• 0:09Speaker 00

  To get real for a second, because I think Ryan and I had this conversation before, too. If kids were not a part of the equation, in terms of like, do you think that some of the tough times may have led to a separation that didn't?

• 0:21Michelle Obama?

  That's a, that's a good question. No, no, no, no. I, I, here's what I think.

• 0:34Michelle Obama?

  This episode is brought to you by Shift.

• 0:40Craig Robinson?

  Hey, little girl.

• 0:41Michelle Obama?

  Hi, Craig. Craigie Craig.

• 0:43Craig Robinson?

  How are you?

• 0:44Michelle Obama?

  I'm doing pretty good. Yeah.

• 0:46Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 0:47Michelle Obama?

  Once again, still enjoying our new IMO set.

• 0:51Craig Robinson?

  I know.

• 0:51Michelle Obama?

  Feeling pretty professional here in our new studios.

• 0:54Craig Robinson?

  It's great. It's great. And comfortable, really comfortable.

• 0:59Michelle Obama?

  It is. It is.

• 1:00Craig Robinson?

  The offices look great. And they're comfortable and the studio is comfortable. I mean, it's just, it's incredible. And we're not even where we're gonna be.

• 1:08Michelle Obama?

  No.

• 1:08Craig Robinson?

  We've still got a little more to do.

• 1:09Michelle Obama?

  This is just the beginning, just the beginning. Speaking of comfort, where are you staying this, this go around?

• 1:15Craig Robinson?

  I'm staying in an Airbnb once again here and really in a, in a nice place that's about 20 minutes away. And listen to this, I had such a good customer service experience.

• 1:28Michelle Obama?

  Tell, tell me more.

• 1:29Craig Robinson?

  So you know, we went to dinner, we had a family get together.

• 1:32Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah, we went out.

• 1:33Craig Robinson?

  Last night. And, and Erin and I, my, my 13 year old, we get back to the Airbnb and the lock is one of these, you know, you gotta figure out what the code is and the numbers aren't always the same. And I'm like, I mess it up and I, we'd lock ourselves out.

• 1:50Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah, I didn't know that.

• 1:51Craig Robinson?

  Locked ourselves out, called the host. Oh, and he was like, oh, just give me a minute. And he is like, hit a few buttons and the door opened and we were able to get in as, as I was about to panic that we were gonna be locked out for the night.

• 2:05Michelle Obama?

  Ah, that's good.

• 2:06Craig Robinson?

  Really good experience.

• 2:07Michelle Obama?

  That's really good.

• 2:08Craig Robinson?

  Really good customer experience, so.

• 2:10Michelle Obama?

  Well, I'm glad you're, you're, you're, you're comfortable that Airbnb is still hooking you up.

• 2:15Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah. They're right along with us, a great partnership. So, um, you know, we're, we're enjoying it and really appreciate it.

• 2:24Michelle Obama?

  Well, I am excited as always for today's guests.

• 2:27Craig Robinson?

  And as folks can see, we've got two chairs here. So before, before we bring out Sterling, Sterling K. Brown and Ryan Michelle Baffet, I want to do a little bit of an intro for our newfound friends here. So, well, not, not so newfound because you've, you've met Sterling before, but.

• 2:45Michelle Obama?

  We go way back.

• 2:46Craig Robinson?

  Sterling is an Academy Award nominee and a three-time Emmy Award winning actor.

• 2:53Michelle Obama?

  That's, that's bad.

• 2:54Craig Robinson?

  That's, that's some tough stuff for a brother, you know? He currently stars and executive produces the hit Hulu series Paradise. And let me go on record by saying, you know me, if it's not a sports thing, I'm probably not going to try and sit and binge watch it, right?

• 3:12Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, you're pretty limited in that way.

• 3:14Craig Robinson?

  Let me tell you, so, so we in preparation for this, I was, you know, what I try and do? I try and watch a.

• 3:20Michelle Obama?

  You hadn't been watching Paradise?

• 3:22Craig Robinson?

  I have not been watching Paradise, but let me, let me tell you the story.

• 3:25Michelle Obama?

  What a.

• 3:25Craig Robinson?

  I'm watching it.

• 3:26Michelle Obama?

  What a stooge.

• 3:27Craig Robinson?

  So, so as part of the research, I start to watch it and I'm watching it and I'm like, huh, okay. And I get to the end of the first.

• 3:36Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:37Craig Robinson?

  The, the first episode. And I was like, all right, let me just wa- real quickly watch the second one. And then it was like, let me, let me just watch the third one. And then I look up and I was supposed to pick Austin up from school.

• 3:49Michelle Obama?

  I left the babies. This is like, oh, Jesus, haven't eaten yet? No, Paradise will do that. It'll mess you up, mess your life up. You go in and it doesn't, it just like sucks you in.

• 4:01Craig Robinson?

  Sucks you right in.

• 4:01Michelle Obama?

  And you can't let go and you mad at everybody and then.

• 4:05Craig Robinson?

  And you know me, I'm, I'm a real snob because I was watching the first episode. I was like, well, this is just your run of the mill so and so. And then it got right to the end and I was like, oh. Okay.

• 4:17Michelle Obama?

  Oh, this is different.

• 4:18Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 4:18Michelle Obama?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 4:20Craig Robinson?

  All right, but we're. But I digress, I digress.

• 4:22Michelle Obama?

  Woo, woo.

• 4:24Craig Robinson?

  And Sterling has also starred in an executive producer. He's the exact, I should be calling him Mr. EP when he comes out here. The acclaimed Hulu limited series, Washington Black. He is also known for his roles in This Is Us, American Fiction, and the People vs. OJ Simpson, American Crime Story. Now, Ryan Michelle Bathy recently led the NBC drama series, The Endgame, and the film, Boy in the Wall.

• 4:52Michelle Obama?

  My girl.

• 4:53Craig Robinson?

  She previously starred in BET's First Wives Club and CBS's All Rise, along with her husband Sterling K. Brown.

• 5:02Michelle Obama?

  Two actors in the family.

• 5:03Craig Robinson?

  Can you imagine two actors?

• 5:05Michelle Obama?

  We're gonna find out what that's like.

• 5:10Craig Robinson?

  Bathy hosts and produces the award-winning podcast, We Don't Always Agree, with her husband Sterling K. Brown.

• 5:18Michelle Obama?

  That's brave.

• 5:19Craig Robinson?

  That is brave. And I've been listening, they got me listening to this now.

• 5:23Michelle Obama?

  I know, right?

• 5:24Craig Robinson?

  They're all in my feed here.

• 5:26Michelle Obama?

  I know, right?

• 5:28Craig Robinson?

  Sterling and Ryan, please come out.

• 5:31Michelle Obama?

  Because we need to, we need to talk through this.

• 5:33Craig Robinson?

  And we gotta give Sterling a little bit more time to come out, because he is injured.

• 5:37Michelle Obama?

  Oh.

• 5:41Michelle Obama?

  Hey, guys. Hey, guys. Let you get settled.

• 5:46Speaker 00

  Sure, sure.

• 5:47Craig Robinson?

  Oh, man. Are you OK, first of all?

• 5:49Michelle Obama?

  You comfortable?

• 5:50Craig Robinson?

  You comfortable?

• 5:51Michelle Obama?

  You need a pillow. You know, can we get you some?

• 5:54Speaker 00

  Happy to be here. It's a true honor to be in you all's presence.

• 5:57Craig Robinson?

  Oh, dear.

• 5:59Michelle Obama?

  We're just following in your footsteps. This is the podcast vets.

• 6:04Speaker 00

  My wife was very nervous. She went through, how many, 51 outfits?

• 6:09Michelle Obama?

  Why are you telling on her?

• 6:11Speaker 00

  Well, because this is how important you all are to us, to the culture, what you mean to everybody. Like, you have, your sphere of influence is immense, and powerful, and beautiful, right? And so, thank you. Like, truly, like, this is a real honor, right?

• 6:29Michelle Obama?

  It's hard for me not to be, like, climbing your walls right now. And just be like.

• 6:34Speaker 03

  So this is very good acting.

• 6:35Speaker 00

  You're doing great.

• 6:36Michelle Obama?

  You're doing great.

• 6:37Speaker 03

  I'm right.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  You are composed, you're beautiful.

• 6:40Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 6:41Michelle Obama?

  This is gonna be fun. This is family.

• 6:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:44Michelle Obama?

  Because we already know all your business.

• 6:47Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, because you guys are agreeing right now.

• 6:49Speaker 00

  Really agree with that.

• 6:50Speaker 03

  Look at that.

• 6:51Michelle Obama?

  You're agreeing on being excited to be here.

• 6:55Craig Robinson?

  But let's, let's, let's hear how Sterling ended up.

• 6:58Michelle Obama?

  What happened to you?

• 6:59Speaker 00

  Finished shooting season two of Paradise.

• 7:02Michelle Obama?

  Thank God they didn't interrupt that.

• 7:05Speaker 00

  My youngest son is a basketball player and so his coach invited me to play like in a coaches game.

• 7:11Michelle Obama?

  It all begins with basketball.

• 7:13Speaker 00

  It all begins with basketball.

• 7:14Michelle Obama?

  With a black man in a burpee with an onyx.

• 7:16Craig Robinson?

  Now that's wrong.

• 7:17Michelle Obama?

  It all begins with, and there was a basketball game.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  There was a basketball game.

• 7:22Craig Robinson?

  Now see, if, if you had said we were out there playing golf or something, she would have been like.

• 7:26Michelle Obama?

  It never happens there.

• 7:27Speaker 00

  It does.

• 7:28Speaker 03

  But she's right.

• 7:29Michelle Obama?

  It happens on the basketball court.

• 7:30Speaker 00

  The, the sports that it happens the most because I've done two ACLs and now this Achilles situation.

• 7:35Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 7:36Speaker 00

  The ones I hear, basketball, skiing, soccer, tennis.

• 7:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 7:39Speaker 00

  Now I hear like the pickleball people.

• 7:41Michelle Obama?

  Pickleball.

• 7:41Speaker 03

  Pickleball.

• 7:42Michelle Obama?

  It's making chiropractors rich.

• 7:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:45Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 7:45Speaker 00

  But it was, I was making a move to the left, like a, a innocuous step. Felt like somebody stomped on the back of my heel with a spike. And I started yelling. I was like, hey, man, who stepped on my foot? And they're like, what you talking about, man? I was like, hey, just apologize for stepping on my foot and we'll be cool.

• 8:04Craig Robinson?

  We can keep the game going.

• 8:05Speaker 00

  You know what I'm saying? Like just, even though, just apologize. And they were like, bruh.

• 8:09Craig Robinson?

  Nobody would dare you.

• 8:11Speaker 00

  And that's, that's that moment when you're like, you know what happened? You're like, man.

• 8:15Craig Robinson?

  Because you've heard that story.

• 8:17Speaker 00

  You hear that story over and over again. I went to stand up and then I was like, nope. And I scooched my booty off of the court.

• 8:24Michelle Obama?

  Aww.

• 8:24Speaker 00

  Uh, my team won. I stayed there.

• 8:27Michelle Obama?

  Because that.

• 8:28Speaker 00

  It was important.

• 8:29Michelle Obama?

  That ladies and gentlemen is an important part of the story.

• 8:32Speaker 03

  And you're like, uh, you know that urgent care place you were talking about the other day? It's like Sunday.

• 8:37Michelle Obama?

  So what lesson have we learned from this experience, Sterling?

• 8:41Speaker 00

  This is interesting. We had this conversation last night.

• 8:43Speaker 03

  We did.

• 8:44Speaker 00

  Where my wife was asking me, are you still going to play?

• 8:47Michelle Obama?

  Hmm, the, the ultimate wife question after a dumbass injury.

• 8:52Speaker 00

  There you go. So, so this is it.

• 8:54Michelle Obama?

  Honey, are we still doing this?

• 8:56Speaker 00

  This is, so this is what I reiterated. Coach, you let me know how you feel about this.

• 9:00Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 9:02Speaker 00

  I'm a man of a certain age, right? I'll be, I'll be 50 next birthday.

• 9:07Michelle Obama?

  Baby.

• 9:08Speaker 00

  Baby, a total baby, right? Sometimes when you talk to people that have given it up, my experience is there's a pervasive mentality of like, I've gotten too old to do X, Y, Z. I don't like the idea of getting older means that I've gotten old. So while I know I have to amend my game, I may have to do set shots, I may have to take it a little bit easier on defense. I don't like the idea of giving something up because I think that that is a pervasive sort of mentality that I don't want to invade the rest of my life.

• 9:41Craig Robinson?

  I like it.

• 9:42Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 9:42Speaker 00

  Does that make sense? Like, I'm not trying to be stubborn.

• 9:44Michelle Obama?

  No, no, it does.

• 9:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:46Michelle Obama?

  So how are we about stretching?

• 9:49Speaker 00

  Very good.

• 9:49Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 9:50Speaker 00

  I stretch.

• 9:51Michelle Obama?

  My, my education part here is like even more stretching.

• 9:55Speaker 00

  Yes, ma'am.

• 9:56Michelle Obama?

  The older we get.

• 9:57Speaker 00

  Right.

• 9:57Michelle Obama?

  The more stretching. What, what are you laughing about?

• 10:00Craig Robinson?

  I promise we're gonna talk about.

• 10:02Speaker 00

  I don't mind.

• 10:03Michelle Obama?

  No, no, this is.

• 10:05Craig Robinson?

  I will tell you. I will tell you your thought process about stopping playing.

• 10:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, no, it's a good one. It's a good one.

• 10:12Craig Robinson?

  Is not faulty. You wanna play as long as your body allows you to. And there are masters leagues for guys who are my age.

• 10:20Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 10:20Craig Robinson?

  Still playing.

• 10:21Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:21Craig Robinson?

  You can play competitively, as competitively as you'd like.

• 10:25Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:26Craig Robinson?

  Or as calmly as you like, even if you're just playing three on three.

• 10:29Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 10:30Craig Robinson?

  But what I wanna tell my sister, there is a finite number of games in everybody's body.

• 10:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:37Craig Robinson?

  And when you get to yours, you have an Achilles tear.

• 10:41Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:42Craig Robinson?

  Some people will get it at 49.

• 10:44Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:45Craig Robinson?

  And some people won't get it.

• 10:46Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:47Craig Robinson?

  It's, you cannot prevent what happened to Sterling. Stretching or no stretching.

• 10:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:53Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 10:54Craig Robinson?

  I'm sure your doctor told you.

• 10:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, it's just one of those things.

• 10:58Craig Robinson?

  But stretching is really good for you.

• 10:59Speaker 00

  Stretching is important and also.

• 11:01Craig Robinson?

  Stretching is really good for you.

• 11:05Speaker 03

  Shut up, boy.

• 11:07Speaker 00

  I'll say this too, that like, I've been making this sort of adjustment in terms of how I run, from landing on the heel to trying to land mid-foot. And I also think that there's something about the tennis shoes that we wear that don't allow the strength of the foot muscles to be strong enough to necessarily support stuff. So I think my foot wasn't strong enough to support what I wanted to do in terms of, and I had to start wearing a thinner sole shoe. So as I do my recovery, I'll try to work with thinner. So like when Ry works out, she works out barefoot. And I, and I see like every time I do a little bit of the barefoot workout, I'm like, oh, this hits different, you know, because your balance and the little foot muscles are trying to work different. And I think I need that as I get back.

• 11:46Speaker 03

  I'm at a very small home gym. I'm not at a gym barefoot, because that's nasty. Thank you. Because I'm like, I don't want to say nasty. Can I say nasty? That's nasty, yeah. So, but you know, we have our little, our little home thing. And I started doing that for that same reason, because somebody was like, oh, it's about toe strength. And I was like, well, I don't know how to strengthen a toe, but you know, the best guy can use them.

• 12:08Speaker 00

  I pull on them sometimes. I pull on her toes.

• 12:12Speaker 03

  God, it's really.

• 12:13Michelle Obama?

  Okay, well, then that gets us to...

• 12:14Speaker 00

  The marriage bed is under five. Let's go.

• 12:16Speaker 03

  Oh, my word. He's doing everything he can to embarrass me. I'm just telling you now, I'm just telling you now.

• 12:21Michelle Obama?

  We love it. We love it. So, tell us about the podcast. Let's start there.

• 12:28Craig Robinson?

  How did this come about?

• 12:29Michelle Obama?

  And how's it, how's it going at home after the podcast?

• 12:33Speaker 00

  Well, this is, oh, this is good. I like that. I'll take the second question, you take the first one.

• 12:37Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 12:37Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:37Speaker 03

  So, the first, it's, it's weird how it came about. It came about because I really thought to myself, there have to be people out there on the right that I, this was before. It was like before, before. I said, there have to be sane people I can talk to. I used to follow like David French and a few other people. I even Googled, it was actually at the, when, when President Obama was saying, you know, don't argue with the trolls in the basement, like try to have face-to-face conversations. And at the time, I was like, I'm gonna take that mantle and change my country and I'm gonna start with, you know. So I was like, I, there's gotta be somebody. I wasn't able to find anybody necessarily.

• 13:19Michelle Obama?

  It's like, and looked, and looked, and looked.

• 13:22Speaker 03

  But I did, I did, I did look, I did look, I couldn't find nobody.

• 13:25Speaker 00

  Did this make it like chicks on the right? Is that?

• 13:27Speaker 03

  I wasn't gonna give them, yes, it was chicks on the right. I did it.

• 13:30Craig Robinson?

  I thought it was chicks on the right.

• 13:32Speaker 03

  There was chicks on the right.

• 13:33Michelle Obama?

  I like that.

• 13:34Speaker 03

  And that's who I found initially, but then they kinda veered more and more right. I was like, oh, gotta, gotta, you know, so. And I even reached out to them, like email, because I was like, there's, this, this has to be able, we have to be able to have these conversations. And I was just convinced, and I could not find it. But I was like, how do we have conversations about things we don't agree on?

• 13:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 13:55Speaker 03

  Even while agreeing on our basic humanity.

• 13:59Speaker 00

  Without them sort of devolving into argumentation, but still staying in the spirit of like, there's a give and take, there's a conversation.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  Right.

• 14:05Speaker 00

  That's not like, sort of antagonistic, but like, alright.

• 14:08Speaker 03

  And a real disagreement, though. Like a real, like, I stand on this side of a thing, and you stand on this side of a thing. But it turned out, the only person that I could have those.

• 14:16Michelle Obama?

  Was my husband.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  Was my husband.

• 14:19Michelle Obama?

  Well, and some people can't have it with their partner, so.

• 14:22Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, they're called husbands.

• 14:25Speaker 03

  Not that, not that. But we've known each other for so long that I think we've, and we're so, we've, we came up with such similarities. We were born in the same hospital, both from St. Louis. We were both, you know, very, born to very religious families, you know, very close to our grandmothers. But then there were so many things within that, that were so polar opposite, that we've discovered over the years that we can't, obviously, we can't change each other. But what we can change is.

• 14:55Speaker 00

  Prodigy.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  But what we can do is learn to sort of live a little bit better with those disagreements. And so we were just standing around, and, you know, it was the strike.

• 15:05Speaker 00

  We were in the middle of the strike, and Ry was also looking for.

• 15:08Speaker 03

  To act a strike.

• 15:09Speaker 00

  A creative outlet that would feel good. And I've always been sort of reticent, reticent to work together. Because that just makes the heart grow fonder.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  More than reticent, darling, you've been very resistant.

• 15:23Speaker 00

  It just makes the heart grow fonder, you know, it's not. I used to go off to work and come home and be like, how was your day? Oh, this was my day.

• 15:30Speaker 03

  That's not what you said.

• 15:32Michelle Obama?

  All right, what's your version of that?

• 15:35Speaker 03

  You said, I don't want you annoying me at work.

• 15:40Michelle Obama?

  Do you remember that, Sterling? Do you remember those words? That sounds right. Aw, man.

• 15:46Speaker 00

  It sounds right, but not like, I want to be.

• 15:50Speaker 03

  Not in a bad way.

• 15:51Michelle Obama?

  Oh, no, not in a bad way. It's like, you should have your space and I should have mine.

• 15:56Speaker 00

  That's what I'm talking about. You'll understand, madam first ladies.

• 16:00Speaker 03

  My word.

• 16:08Craig Robinson?

  This segment sponsored by Ship is all about the comfort of knowing it's handled. You know, there's something really comforting about realizing you don't have to carry everything on your own. When life is already full, having one less thing to worry about can make all the difference. It's that confidence and calm that come from knowing something is taken care of without having to micromanage it. And I think it really showed up for me when I went from being an assistant coach to a head coach. You know, being an assistant coach, there's tons of things you got to worry about. From recruiting to film exchange, to setting up road trips, to planning practices and workouts.

• 16:54Craig Robinson?

  You're responsible for executing all of these things as an assistant coach. But as a head coach, you have to oversee all of these things. This was a big change for me and what really made my job as a head coach

• 17:11Craig Robinson?

  easier was my executive assistant, who not only could anticipate things, but she also thought like I did.

• 17:19Craig Robinson?

  And could prepare me for any situation, whether it was prepping for a media spot or meeting with alums, parents, recruits, or if I just needed to know someone's name in a room full of people who I didn't know. She can anticipate that, and her reliability always made me feel like it's handled. I didn't have to worry. Mish, I'm curious. When you think back over your life, what are some of the moments that made you truly feel comfortable and calm?

• 17:49Michelle Obama?

  Well, probably my eight years in the White House for some of the same reasons that you described. You know, I was kind of like the head coach of the Office of the First Lady. And with so much on your plate, you know, moving from one event to the next, I just didn't have the time or the capacity to worry about the details, whether we were going to be on time, who I was talking to at any given moment, you know, what the weather was, how I was supposed to dress. So I had to rely on my team. And it was always a source of comfort to know that my team of people around me were on top of it, making sure that I had everything that I need so that when I entered a room, I could just be me.

• 18:32Craig Robinson?

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• 19:18Craig Robinson?

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• 20:03Craig Robinson?

  so you can actually see how something looks and works in real people's homes. Find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 20:25Speaker 04

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• 20:28Craig Robinson?

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• 21:12Craig Robinson?

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• 22:01Speaker 00

  So, but I also thought that the concept for the podcast was something that was really cool and it sort of fit with the dynamic of our interplay. Like, we are very Beatrice and Benedict, if you're familiar with Much Ado About Nothing. And just sort of like, there's a verbal sparring that we have naturally that is fun without crossing a line. Every once in a while, we both cross a line. And after the podcast, we're like, hey, listen, man.

• 22:27Speaker 00

  Do you have to say that?

• 22:30Speaker 00

  Because you're like, oh, I thought we were just fun. And I'm like, no, no, come on, man. That, that one hurt. That one, that one hurt. We have this thing. So, we have this thing where, you know, we played a dozens, me and my kids played a dozens. And like, you know, they'll say something.

• 22:43Craig Robinson?

  Wait, wait, let's explain the dozens. Because we've got listeners who like the dozens.

• 22:47Speaker 00

  You know, just sort of droning, when you're like, sort of like making fun of each other with a good spirited sort of thing, which is not meant to hurt, but just sort of like. Gentle ribbing. Gentle ribbing.

• 22:55Craig Robinson?

  Gentle ribbing that sometimes gets serious.

• 22:58Speaker 00

  Sometimes it gets serious.

• 22:58Speaker 03

  Well, I didn't grow up with the gentle ribbing.

• 23:00Speaker 00

  No, well, let me tell you the story.

• 23:01Speaker 03

  Okay, go ahead, go ahead.

• 23:02Speaker 00

  So, I'm doing it with the fellas and whatnot. And then I'll be like, they'll be like, you, you look old, man. I say, your mama old. And they're like, that's your wife. And I'm like, I don't care. But that's just messing with them, right? And so, I said something to Ryan, just sort of messing with her to get her to go back. And she goes, that's why your mama has ALS. And I was like, whoa, man. That's not how it works. Ryan, that's not fair.

• 23:27Speaker 00

  It's like, oh. You do not understand what was happening between.

• 23:33Speaker 00

  Aw, man, she just went right down.

• 23:36Craig Robinson?

  Wait a minute, wait a minute.

• 23:38Speaker 00

  Ryan is like, I bet this for her.

• 23:41Craig Robinson?

  Hang on, Ryan, did you have any brothers growing up?

• 23:43Speaker 00

  No. She's an only child. That's why she's.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  I do have. Sister, but I did not grow up with my own sister.

• 23:50Michelle Obama?

  Oh my goodness.

• 23:51Speaker 03

  And I did have cousins, but I dropped it.

• 23:53Michelle Obama?

  Isn't this the game?

• 23:54Speaker 00

  Me and the boys, me and the boys all lifted each other.

• 23:57Michelle Obama?

  I'm like, oh.

• 24:00Speaker 03

  It didn't quite go down quite like that.

• 24:01Craig Robinson?

  Ryan said, isn't the point of winning?

• 24:05Speaker 03

  I mean, for you, that did happen. I, I, I, I.

• 24:07Craig Robinson?

  The point is to win the argument.

• 24:09Michelle Obama?

  It's like, I know what will make, to take you to your knee. So Ryan, who was your, what was your version of that approach?

• 24:16Speaker 03

  My version was that we were going back and forth. And I had run out of things to say and then I did, I did reach for them.

• 24:24Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, it did. It's not, it's not better. So I thought, oh, oh, sweetie, I thought, I thought, you're like, I've had a really bad thing to say. And I didn't want to stop.

• 24:35Craig Robinson?

  That's great.

• 24:36Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:36Craig Robinson?

  That's how you end that argument, right?

• 24:38Speaker 03

  I also didn't, I did not know how to do it.

• 24:41Speaker 00

  It's done.

• 24:42Michelle Obama?

  Everybody go home. Everybody go wipe your tears. I know.

• 24:46Speaker 00

  But now getting back to my family.

• 24:48Craig Robinson?

  Your kids were in the room?

• 24:49Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:50Michelle Obama?

  Oh.

• 24:50Craig Robinson?

  Cause we were even better.

• 24:51Speaker 00

  We were all doing it with each other. You know what I'm saying?

• 24:54Craig Robinson?

  Those are the stars.

• 24:56Speaker 00

  Then she tried this.

• 24:56Michelle Obama?

  Well, no, they're just like, oh, you know, we can't play with mom. Mom goes dirt.

• 25:01Craig Robinson?

  She goes down.

• 25:01Michelle Obama?

  Oh, mom. You know, mom don't know how to play.

• 25:04Speaker 00

  When, when they go low.

• 25:06Michelle Obama?

  We go there.

• 25:07Speaker 00

  Ryan.

• 25:09Michelle Obama?

  Man, Ryan got out the shovel.

• 25:12Speaker 03

  I'm sorry about that.

• 25:13Michelle Obama?

  She got out the shovel.

• 25:15Speaker 03

  You know, I didn't show, I didn't grow up, but I didn't.

• 25:18Michelle Obama?

  That's a good one.

• 25:20Craig Robinson?

  This is great. Oh, man.

• 25:21Speaker 00

  So I said, I said that to say, we have this dynamic.

• 25:25Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 25:26Speaker 00

  And, and I also would say that because we've known each other since 18, we'll be celebrating 20 years of marriage in March. There are things at this point in time in our life that we can talk about that we probably couldn't have talked about earlier in the marriage without it feeling like we were reliving it. We can recount it now without reliving it.

• 25:45Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 25:46Speaker 00

  So it was, it was the right time. It was the right time.

• 25:48Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 25:48Speaker 03

  And, and like, I think you mentioned this on the pod, your podcast where it's like, you want to sort of. Give a vulnerable and real portrait of something that, you know, we can't ignore the fact, oh, goals, oh, look at them, da, da, da. And it's like you see a certain thing, but it did feel like there was a responsibility there somewhere that we were like, okay, but we also want people to know what this really is.

• 26:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, what the work is.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  And we could really talk about, you know, the ways in which we struggled and the ways in which we didn't struggle and the things that, you know, came easy to us and why, and the things that came difficult to us and why. So that people really didn't, you know, really don't think that it's just a, I woke up, found my soulmate, and every day is just.

• 26:36Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that's right. That's right, because don't you find that couples quit too soon? And we've seen this in young people. Now, everybody's young, right, to us, but new couples. And part of the reason why I talk about it being hard is not because I don't love my husband and we have a wonderful relationship. We've been married 30-plus years. Some works, right? But if you don't let people know about the tough times, then I think they quit too soon.

• 27:10Speaker 00

  I guess it didn't work.

• 27:11Michelle Obama?

  That's right, it didn't work. And then you quit too soon. And that's why I say things like, you can go through 10 years, bad years, right? In a 30-year marriage. And that's still great odds. It's not, it's not a bad, you know.

• 27:27Speaker 03

  Oh, my goodness gracious.

• 27:29Michelle Obama?

  And every time I say it, people are like, oh, Lord, I can't do 10. But if you were to play the odds of like, if you could have 10% of hard for 90% of wonderful, you would take that every.

• 27:43Speaker 03

  1,000%.

• 27:44Michelle Obama?

  And that's really the point. The point is that in any long relationship, there are going to be years, months, hours, long periods of time. If you add it all up with things that just don't feel right. You don't quit on it.

• 27:58Speaker 00

  Right.

• 27:58Michelle Obama?

  You know, sometimes that means you dig deeper. And if you don't dig deeper, you miss all the stuff on the end. You know?

• 28:06Speaker 00

  May I ask you a question that would probably be cut out of the podcast?

• 28:09Michelle Obama?

  No. Oh, yes, yes, you can. He's like, please.

• 28:13Speaker 03

  Yes, you can.

• 28:14Speaker 00

  To get real for a second, because I think Ryan and I had this conversation before too. In terms of the ups and downs, trials and tribulations. I'm missing it, but you know what I'm talking about.

• 28:24Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:25Speaker 00

  If kids were not a part of the equation, in terms of like, do you think that some of the tough times may have led to a separation that didn't?

• 28:34Michelle Obama?

  That's a, that's a good question.

• 28:36Speaker 00

  I know.

• 28:37Michelle Obama?

  No, no, no, no. I, I, I'd like to think not, here's what I think.

• 28:44Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 28:44Michelle Obama?

  Sometimes without kids, some of the tough times wouldn't happen, right?

• 28:49Speaker 00

  Facts.

• 28:49Michelle Obama?

  And this is why I say, look, it's great when it's just you two.

• 28:54Speaker 00

  Right.

• 28:55Michelle Obama?

  You know, and because there really isn't challenges with division of labor. Because everybody can be their own individual people.

• 29:04Speaker 00

  Right.

• 29:04Michelle Obama?

  You go off do your movie, yay, yay, we have our separate lives and then it's romantic, we get back together. The thing that makes that harder is when those beautiful, wonderful, lovely kids that we all want and love, they show, they show up.

• 29:18Speaker 00

  Yes, ma'am.

• 29:19Michelle Obama?

  With their own agendas, you know, with their own needs. And now it's the first major joint project.

• 29:26Speaker 00

  Right.

• 29:27Michelle Obama?

  That you have to do together.

• 29:29Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 29:30Michelle Obama?

  And that's when, that's when the hard starts, you know? So I think a lot of our hard was because of the kids, who we love deeply.

• 29:38Speaker 00

  Very much so.

• 29:38Michelle Obama?

  But I think without it, without them.

• 29:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:42Michelle Obama?

  You know, a lot of the hard things don't come up, alright? Because you could, you can go to the gym all you want when there are no diapers to be changed. Thank you. You know, you can do whatever you want.

• 29:54Speaker 00

  Y'all know each other.

• 29:55Michelle Obama?

  Who's driving?

• 29:55Speaker 00

  Y'all done talked to each other.

• 29:57Michelle Obama?

  Who, do you know how to make a dental? Do you know how to make a dental appointment? Do you know where they go to the doctor? Do you know their doctor's name?

• 30:06Craig Robinson?

  You started it, so don't.

• 30:07Speaker 00

  I did.

• 30:08Michelle Obama?

  You know.

• 30:08Speaker 00

  You chime in, Crank.

• 30:09Michelle Obama?

  Right, no.

• 30:10Speaker 00

  What do you, what do you got to say, Dora?

• 30:13Craig Robinson?

  I will say that.

• 30:16Craig Robinson?

  See, I've been married twice.

• 30:17Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 30:18Craig Robinson?

  And hopefully that'll only be twice.

• 30:20Michelle Obama?

  Don't say hopefully.

• 30:21Speaker 00

  I got you.

• 30:22Speaker 03

  Definitely.

• 30:23Michelle Obama?

  Don't say hopefully.

• 30:25Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, no, it will, it will be, but I will say the difference between the first and the second was that because the first marriage didn't work out.

• 30:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:37Craig Robinson?

  The second marriage, I really intentionally talked about ground rules.

• 30:43Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 30:44Craig Robinson?

  Before getting married.

• 30:46Speaker 00

  That's good.

• 30:47Michelle Obama?

  I mean, look, athletes devote careers to a jump shot. Shoot shot after shot, years and years and years and years and years.

• 30:54Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 30:56Michelle Obama?

  You have one bad argument, you have one bad year in a marriage.

• 31:00Craig Robinson?

  I'm done.

• 31:01Michelle Obama?

  And you're done. Or you have three bad years and you're done. And look, the, the, the level of muscle that Barack and I have in our marriage is earned. It's earned over time.

• 31:13Speaker 00

  Right.

• 31:14Michelle Obama?

  And it's only gotten better. And I think that's the point. It gets better. And then you, if you quit too soon, you'll rob yourself of the, the success of the better.

• 31:23Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:24Michelle Obama?

  The work that goes in. And we've been married 30 years. We're healthy people. We could be married for another 30 years.

• 31:29Speaker 00

  You can.

• 31:30Michelle Obama?

  That's a long time.

• 31:31Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 31:32Michelle Obama?

  And it could be 30 years of absolute bliss.

• 31:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:35Michelle Obama?

  You know, because we've done the work. We, we've gotten over the hump. Our kids are grown. They're out. We're looking at each other like, hey. Remember you. Now I'm not mad about anything because I don't need you to do anything.

• 31:49Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 31:50Michelle Obama?

  For me.

• 31:51Speaker 00

  You guys are ahead of us too. I want to ask you this question. I have questions for you. You guys are actually on our podcast right now.

• 31:58Speaker 00

  Every once in a while, we have these moments about empty nesting.

• 32:01Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:01Speaker 00

  And like the joint venture that you're talking about and how much time and resource that you spend on these both two people, right? Um, and then the idea of like what happens when that project is over. And have you neglected the time that you need to pour into one another? Because you've been pouring into these two beautiful people. Like, did you look at each other like, oh, man, now we gotta do this again? Or do you feel like you prepared yourselves, knowing that the nest was about to be empty? And be like, alright, Barack, alright, like, how are we going? We need to make sure that we are straight in this moment.

• 32:36Michelle Obama?

  I think we're still developing that part of ourselves, right? I mean, our youngest graduate, well, she went to college. She's been out for five years, right? I'm, my math is always wrong.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  Graduated from college five years ago.

• 32:50Michelle Obama?

  Left, when I say leave, left for college.

• 32:52Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 32:53Michelle Obama?

  Right, because that's the beginning of the leaving. Like, you packed your bags and you're not gonna be living here for nine months. That's a good one.

• 33:00Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 33:00Michelle Obama?

  It's a good start, right?

• 33:02Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  I think I might go in the suitcase.

• 33:05Michelle Obama?

  I just might. We'll talk, we'll talk. Because you haven't even gotten through the teen years.

• 33:11Speaker 03

  No, we're just the teen years.

• 33:12Michelle Obama?

  They're still precious.

• 33:14Speaker 00

  We have the 14-year-old is beginning the process of separating.

• 33:17Michelle Obama?

  You know, they're just, you know, you'll be ready when it's time. Okay.

• 33:23Speaker 00

  As a knowing.

• 33:24Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, you're gonna be ready, you're gonna be ready. But I think it's a new phase for us, which takes time.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 33:32Michelle Obama?

  It's gonna take, like, we're in a new phase of life. My husband did the hardest job. He reached the top of the thing you could do. Now, he's got, he's got work to do, individual work, to figure out, where am I gonna be? What do I want to say? Who do I want to be? I'm doing the same thing, right? That's, that's a whole new assignment, right? That you have to factor in to the newness of, now we're doing this, we're back to just me and him. It takes time, is all I'm saying. All of these new stages take time for adjustment. When you guys had, when, when the boys were infants, you know, when one was just coming out of diapers and... That's a whole new phase.

• 34:12Michelle Obama?

  When, you know, you move from, everybody's in a crib to people are walking around. Like, that, that can change the whole nature of your interaction with your partner.

• 34:24Speaker 00

  Completely internal.

• 34:25Michelle Obama?

  And it takes time. So, we, we think this stuff, this is like really hard, complicated stuff that you are negotiating with another person, you know?

• 34:35Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 34:35Michelle Obama?

  All I'm saying is, like, it all takes time. And to think that there aren't gonna be bumps along the way. Of each of those phases.

• 34:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:43Michelle Obama?

  Right?

• 34:43Speaker 00

  This is, okay, wait, so this is interesting. I love this conversation. This is wonderful. This is wonderful, Michelle. Thank you so much. So in my mind, like, the question is, for the listener, in terms of navigating tough times, Craig being on a second marriage now, when do tough times become a step too far? What is the deal breaker? Like, Ryan and I say, for the most part, it's like, there are no deal breakers for us. There are just things that we have to negotiate. There are things that we figure out. I say a rather crude thing about, if you did this very bad thing to me. Do you want me to say it?

• 35:19Michelle Obama?

  No, I do not.

• 35:24Speaker 00

  It's scatological humor. And I won't go into it.

• 35:27Michelle Obama?

  It is funny, but it's not.

• 35:29Speaker 00

  It's funny, but it's not for the literal.

• 35:33Speaker 00

  But I was like, if you did this awful thing to me, that would be the deal breaker, right? And it's really something that she would never do.

• 35:38Michelle Obama?

  Okay, yes.

• 35:40Craig Robinson?

  Now I can imagine.

• 35:43Speaker 00

  But my question is then, in terms of navigating these difficult times, right? For people who are also in the midst of difficult times, who are probably asking themselves, what's the difficulty that's too much? Obviously, if there's anything that's physical, that's transpiring inside of a relationship, don't stay in some sort of abuse. Well, and I would say even verbal, psychological, physical, et cetera. Abuse is not something that is meant to be tolerated. Outside of that, I'm curious, like, do you feel like there are deal breakers? Or things that you feel like people should walk away from? Or everything is meant to just find your way through?

• 36:24Craig Robinson?

  I'll start.

• 36:24Speaker 00

  Please.

• 36:25Craig Robinson?

  Because I will say now, in my relationship with Kelly now.

• 36:30Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 36:31Craig Robinson?

  There are probably no deal breakers for me.

• 36:33Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 36:33Craig Robinson?

  She might have some, but there's probably nothing for me. We could probably work through anything that I could think of.

• 36:41Speaker 00

  Right.

• 36:42Craig Robinson?

  Aside from your scatological.

• 36:44Speaker 00

  There you go.

• 36:46Craig Robinson?

  But I think we can make our way through it. But I wouldn't have said that when we first got together.

• 36:53Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 36:53Craig Robinson?

  That's, that's, that's years of work. That's years of talk. That's years of, of both going through our own difficulties and coming out of it. And together, having difficulties and coming out of it. And you just, you, you emerge at a different level of understanding. A higher, a higher being, a higher, just that at a higher level of understanding.

• 37:18Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:19Craig Robinson?

  That's how I feel.

• 37:20Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 37:21Craig Robinson?

  It mean, it would, it would really have to be something that I couldn't have seen coming. That was so bad. But then I would be so worried that what was I in this relationship to make you want to do something that bad? Um, I gotta take the responsibility of it. So that's just my own growth over the years.

• 37:40Speaker 00

  I love that. I love that.

• 37:42Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. Thirty plus years in, I mean, like, he's, he's, he's me. We are a, we're the, we're so intertwined at this stage in life. Our experiences, our challenges, our family, our, like, he would have to become a different person. Like, that I would be like, who, who took over your body? And then we would be going to doctors and we would, I would probably call the FBI and, you know? I mean, because I'd have to be like, this, something, something happened to my husband. It's not the same person. And then I'd be worried, like, what is going on?

• 38:26Craig Robinson?

  No.

• 38:36Craig Robinson?

  Raise your hand if you've been putting off a checkup, a dental cleaning, any kind of doctor's appointment. Yeah, my hands up too. I'll tell myself I'm fine and keep it moving. But we can't take care of business if we're not taking care of our health. This year, we're doing it differently. You know that feeling when you leave a doctor? Doctor's office and think they really listened. That's what we're looking for. And you can find doctors like that on Zocdoc. Zocdoc is a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality in-network doctors so you can find someone you love. You can book in-network appointments with more than 150,000 providers across all 50 states.

• 39:19Craig Robinson?

  Search by specialty or symptom from primary care to dentistry to dermatology and more than 200 plus specialties. See verified patient reviews, check real time availability, and click to book instantly. No phone tag. Appointments happen fast, typically within 24 to 72 hours, even same day. I use this and you should too. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to zocdoc.com/imo to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. That's z o c d o c dot com slash I M O. Zocdoc dot com slash I M O. Thanks, Zocdoc, for sponsoring this message.

• 40:06Craig Robinson?

  This episode of I M O is brought to you by Indeed. You know, I've been thinking a lot about careers lately, especially in a job market like this. One thing I've learned is that you really have to think outside the box when it comes to your path. Nothing about my own journey has been linear. I've made pivots, followed my curiosities, leaned into the strengths and skills I had at the time. And somehow, all of that kept opening doors I never would have pictured for myself. And honestly, being willing to evolve made my whole career feel more dynamic and rewarding. The roles I ended up loving weren't always the ones I initially imagined. They were the ones that aligned with who I was becoming.

• 40:51Craig Robinson?

  But let's be real, the process of finding those roles. It can feel like a second job. I remember stretches where searching, applying, waiting. It was exhausting. That's why I love what Indeed is doing with Career Scout. It's designed to make the whole process faster, easier, and a lot more intentional. Career Scout actually looks at your skills and interests and sources opportunities you might not have even realized were a fit. It's like having your own career coach working behind the scenes, helping tailor your resume, matching you to roles that align with your strengths, even supporting you with interview prep. It takes something that can feel overwhelming and makes it manageable.

• 41:36Craig Robinson?

  And honestly, if I had Career Scout earlier in my career, it would have saved me so much time and helped me tap into my strengths more quickly. It's a game changer when you're ready for that next step. Indeed's mission is to empower people to use their skills to find better work, and Career Scout is their latest innovation to help you do that. The future of job searching is here, and it's called Indeed Career Scout. Try it today in the Indeed app.

• 42:12Craig Robinson?

  Knowing you guys' origin story?

• 42:14Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:15Craig Robinson?

  I think it's so different because Meesh didn't meet Barack until later.

• 42:21Speaker 00

  Right.

• 42:21Craig Robinson?

  I didn't meet my first wife until after, and I didn't meet Kelly until way later.

• 42:26Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 42:26Craig Robinson?

  You guys knew each other.

• 42:28Speaker 00

  Freshman year.

• 42:29Craig Robinson?

  Freshman year and are still together. I want to know, how does that happen?

• 42:34Speaker 00

  How does that happen? What do you have to say to that, Bert?

• 42:37Speaker 03

  Well, I think because I always look at it like life kept throwing us back together, you know? And similar to you, like, yeah, no, I'm good. Like, we would go away. We would purposefully go away.

• 42:50Speaker 00

  Bye.

• 42:51Speaker 03

  And life would just keep tossing us back in the same. Our very first job. We were not speaking. We had just graduated from grad school. And I never forget.

• 43:01Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, this was on your, your first episode?

• 43:04Speaker 00

  Did it? Did we talk about this?

• 43:05Craig Robinson?

  First episode.

• 43:06Speaker 03

  I don't, did we? Did we talk about it?

• 43:08Speaker 00

  Under five on the guiding light.

• 43:09Speaker 03

  It was under five on guiding light. And I remember where I was when they said, you got the job. And I was so excited. It was your first job. I was in, I was in one of those like, you know, those big stores on like 42nd. Like, you know, not H and M, but like, you know, V I M. Anyway, jeans and sneakers store. I was in V I M. Don't forget, because I always wanted to go, you know? I was like, this is the commercial. So I was in V I M and I was looking at stuff. And, and they were like, and you got the job. I was like, oh my God, yes, I'm on my way, I'm on my way, right? And they're like, and you got, um, your other classmate is in. And I was like, who? And they said Sarah Surry's, one of my dear, dear friends. I was like, yes, Sarah Surry, and another classmate. I was like, who? And they were like Sterling Brown. And I was like, huh. They're like, hello, he says, oh yeah, I'm here. Yay.

• 43:53Speaker 03

  We were not speaking. And we played a husband and wife.

• 43:58Speaker 00

  That is correct.

• 43:59Speaker 03

  In a Lamaze class.

• 44:00Speaker 00

  Yes, ma'am.

• 44:01Speaker 03

  On guiding light.

• 44:02Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 44:03Michelle Obama?

  Why weren't you all speaking? What happened? Who did what? Were you, was it mad, I'm not speaking? Or you just weren't in touch?

• 44:10Craig Robinson?

  They were on and off. Y'all were on and off for the time they met.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  It was, it was, who?

• 44:17Speaker 00

  I think you weren't speaking to me.

• 44:20Speaker 03

  No, you weren't speaking to me, Sterling.

• 44:21Speaker 00

  No, no, ju- ju- ju- facts, facts. But what I'm saying is, like, we did our last show at NYU, which was Midsummer Night's Dream.

• 44:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 44:30Speaker 00

  And I, I'd see you come offstage. I'm like, yo, man, you just ripped that scene. I just want you to know it was really good. And you just walk.

• 44:38Speaker 03

  Who asked you? Nobody asked.

• 44:41Craig Robinson?

  You ghosted before there was a test.

• 44:43Speaker 03

  Who asked you? Oh, did you do something? You know what you did. Like, that's not.

• 44:48Speaker 00

  But so, but after, after sustained neglect, I was like, all right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop trying now. So we had stopped talking to each other. So we get on set to do this scene. And she, what happens is, anytime she knows that I've pulled away, she purposefully is like, hey Sterling, how are you? What's going on?

• 45:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, that is true.

• 45:08Speaker 00

  And I was like, hey, what's going on, man? How you doing? It's good to see you. Whatever. No, no, no. So we had to do this scene. And she's sitting in my lap. You know, she's pregnant and I'm holding her up or whatnot. And the Lamaze destructors going by. And she's saying, and dads, you're gonna have to look after the mommies. You're gonna have to do this and that and give them sponge baths and everything like that. And the line goes, Ryan looks over her shoulder and she looks at me and she goes, sponge baths? And I look at her and I say, all the time. Except when we do our line. She looks at me and she's like, she's touching me and all this stuff. And I'm like, oh, Lord, please stop touching me. And then she looks at me and she goes, sponge baths? And I looked directly in her forehead.

• 45:43Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 45:44Speaker 00

  And I said, oh.

• 45:45Speaker 03

  He couldn't look me in the eye.

• 45:47Craig Robinson?

  And you looked over and she could tell.

• 45:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I'm doing this.

• 45:50Speaker 00

  But the camera could not.

• 45:51Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 45:52Speaker 03

  And I'm doing this in the scene, trying to make him look in the eye.

• 45:54Speaker 00

  That's my camera right there, bro. Bro, I'm gonna make it look real.

• 45:58Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh. He's like, that's why I'm an actor.

• 46:01Speaker 00

  That's why I'm here. Man, she was getting on my nerves.

• 46:04Craig Robinson?

  Wait, now, now, I, I, I wanna digress.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  Please.

• 46:07Craig Robinson?

  Just for an act, an, an acting thing, cuz you, husband and wife, both actors.

• 46:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:14Craig Robinson?

  When does the discussion happen about each other doing make out scenes with someone else?

• 46:21Speaker 00

  It's a great discussion.

• 46:22Michelle Obama?

  That's a very good question. Well, that's what the man wants to know.

• 46:26Craig Robinson?

  Well, no, it's, I, I, I think that's a question that people.

• 46:29Speaker 00

  I think the public, yeah.

• 46:30Michelle Obama?

  The public wants to know.

• 46:31Craig Robinson?

  I've never heard anyone ask that question.

• 46:33Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 46:34Craig Robinson?

  Because either people don't have an opportunity or they're just like, I'm not gonna bring it up.

• 46:40Speaker 00

  It is acting. And what a lot of people don't realize, it's not as glamorous as you think it is. There's sweat and like people are coming to powder you and you have to hit this right angle because the camera can't see something, what have you. And, and it's very sort of like choreographed or whatnot. And I always tell the bird, I was like, hey, man, make him look like you know what's going on. Like, don't let him think that, don't let him think that, that we ain't having a good time. Oh, sweet, you know what I'm saying? Like, we know how to get in there. So like, you know, don't go out and act like.

• 47:10Speaker 03

  Like, you know what you're doing.

• 47:11Speaker 00

  It's the family. Is what I'm trying to say.

• 47:15Craig Robinson?

  Show him you got skills.

• 47:16Speaker 00

  There's, there's no real jealousy in, in that sort of arena there because like, we, we both have said, like, to do it well, it's not about.

• 47:25Speaker 00

  Pretending as much as it is investing in the given circumstances so much that you are living the truth of that character in that time. So you gotta fall in love a little bit and you gotta be attracted a little bit. And that doesn't threaten anything that we have because we know where we sleep at night. We know who we've made our vows to, et cetera, et cetera. It just means I want you to act well and hopefully you want me to act well and that we can. And sometimes, here's the other thing, you can take some of the energy that you got on set and bring that home.

• 47:52Speaker 03

  Bring home, birdie.

• 47:55Speaker 00

  Bring that home. That's the thing, that's the, because a lot of people ask that question, like, how do you do that? How does that? It's my job. It's her job. And you do it.

• 48:05Speaker 03

  I also don't wa, I, I just don't watch. He doesn't know this, but I just, when the scenes come up, I just close my eyes.

• 48:12Michelle Obama?

  I'm like, I'm gonna get some ice cream.

• 48:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. I just don't wa, I just don't, I don't wanna.

• 48:16Michelle Obama?

  Fast forward.

• 48:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. I just, I just don't watch.

• 48:19Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I don't know if I could watch.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  It's not, I don't even like watching myself, though.

• 48:23Speaker 00

  She does.

• 48:24Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? Especially in those particular, I don't like watching myself necessarily. I have to because I have to see what I've done wrong or what I didn't, but you know, I have to see. But certain things, I, I, there are things on First Wives Club that I still haven't watched myself do. It was like, nah, no, I don't need to see that. Like, and for me, I think it's the only way that I can sort of do what you say in terms of like, living in that moment. I have to just kind of like, take a deep breath, live in the moment, and then I really just have to let it go. And it has to stay gone for me. So I can't, I can't ruminate on the scene and I can't ruminate on your scenes and I just have to, you know, I just, I just don't watch.

• 49:04Michelle Obama?

  Well, that makes me think, well, like, you guys didn't answer the question, really. It's like, how did, how have you worked through some of the tougher times in your marriage? And does one particular time stand out to you?

• 49:24Speaker 00

  There are, so Craig was saying something earlier about like, you know, two actors navigating the industry together, right? And so, there's something about,

• 49:37Speaker 00

  you're gonna have your own take on this, and that's fine. And I just ask that you let me finish my take first.

• 49:42Speaker 03

  We don't always agree.

• 49:44Craig Robinson?

  You don't always agree, and he is preparing for you not to agree.

• 49:47Speaker 00

  I just ask that you allow me to finish my take first.

• 49:50Craig Robinson?

  I love that.

• 49:51Speaker 00

  Before you offer yours.

• 49:53Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 49:53Speaker 00

  Please and thank you, appreciate it. There is sometimes this feeling of like, alright, when there's momentum happening in one person's career, you have a desire for momentum in your own career as well. And while you can say and truly believe that like, we are doing very well right now, whether it's financially or otherwise, if the other person isn't experiencing something that is validating for them on a personal level, whatever's transpiring for you may feel very separate and distinct. And so, I will say that there are times in which I'm like, how do I make sure that my wife feels included and acknowledged and appreciated

• 50:37Speaker 00

  as there's a certain level of momentum transpiring in my life? And there's varying degrees of success in terms of us feeling connected in it and separate in it. So that's an ongoing thing that I'm navigating. After you.

• 50:57Speaker 03

  I would say. You know, George Burns was asked this question about his long, you know, Hollywood marriage to Gracie. And he said, "We never fell out of love at the same time."

• 51:13Speaker 03

  And I can look back at our relationship, and I really do believe that we've, I don't know that that's a deal that we've made or something that's just kind of sustained us.

• 51:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:23Speaker 03

  But I don't think we've ever fallen out. And even before we got married, I would say that when one pulled away, the other one was like, and when, you know what I mean? So I don't think we've ever decided at the same time, "I'm done with you." And so I think that there is something that...

• 51:43Speaker 03

  Makes one of us, if not both of us, but at least one of us is always pulling for us.

• 51:50Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm. I would agree with that.

• 51:52Speaker 03

  And so I think that that's at the, at the very, very core, at the very, very root of it. We believe in therapy.

• 51:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:59Speaker 03

  We very much believe in therapy. I think that that has given us an opportunity to kind of see the forest for the trees. Like what you were talking about is like, okay, you might have some bad years. Like it's only been six months. Like, let's see what happens when the baby is walking. And then that's a whole nother corner, you know, that literally and figuratively that you're gonna turn together. Um, I also think that because we have had, we have the children.

• 52:30Speaker 00

  We do have.

• 52:30Speaker 03

  Again, as you'd like to say that, well, no, it's not, we're not just staying for the kids. You'd like to say that, but it is, we do know that there's something bigger now than just the both of us and whatever is going on at that moment. Yes, I, I can be very volatile and I can, you know.

• 52:46Speaker 00

  Say it again in the, in the microphone.

• 52:48Speaker 03

  No, I have not. I'm not trying to say it. You know, but like you asked, what things that you, you thought about when you were younger that you wouldn't put up with? Like there, there is definitely a 19-year-old me that would have had the time of her life with a very dramatic, I'm packing this, banging up. Like that would have been part of the fun, right?

• 53:07Speaker 00

  Burn the thing.

• 53:08Speaker 03

  It changed me, changed me, come find me. Girl, you know what? And girl, we gonna meet, where we gonna meet? Like, you know, the whole, I remember I did that when I was pregnant, when I was giving, because I gave birth at home. And I remember, um, there was, you know. Stuff going on. Stuff going on. And I looked in my hand, I was like, it's bloody. And I put it on the wall and I was like, ah, that scream. So that I can have the bloody handwriting down. I do remember that.

• 53:36Speaker 00

  I was like, I got lost this long.

• 53:38Speaker 03

  This is, this is the only child.

• 53:41Michelle Obama?

  I'm a girl.

• 53:42Speaker 00

  It's strong. Reach out.

• 53:44Michelle Obama?

  Oh, I love you.

• 53:46Speaker 00

  Never part.

• 53:47Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my God, I love it.

• 53:49Speaker 00

  Make it happen.

• 53:49Michelle Obama?

  So you don't think of some stuff.

• 53:51Speaker 03

  I really can. I really can.

• 53:53Speaker 00

  Ma'am.

• 53:53Speaker 03

  But I think that I have put a lot of that and said, OK, now, now, now you have you. It's not just you and the dramatic moments and all of those things. There is something bigger that's calling you. And it is those 30 years on the other side. It's the children and what we can provide. And it's all of that. And it just feels bigger than just whatever that small moment is. Or even that big moment. It's not to say that there haven't been big moments. But I think that there's something bigger that calls us to fight for what we have.

• 54:25Speaker 00

  I'm gonna go back and just combine the two things together because it feels like when things are difficult, if we feel as if we are in them together, they are way easier to endure versus when we feel as if we're separate in it. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's always like, that's probably the toughest times that we have when we feel like we're going through something as a couple, as a family and/or individually, and we don't feel like we're on the same page. Those are the times that are the most difficult, I would say.

• 55:07Michelle Obama?

  Brian, I want to just check in with you on, you know, because you talked about the fact that you sacrificed your career to be there for your kids. You made some choices. That, you know, that is the story of so many women out there. We're still, you know, we can talk about being equal partners and so on and so forth, but we give birth, our bodies change, we are constantly adapting in ways that our partners, our male partners do not have to do it. It's a part of it. And so we wind up saying, you can have it all, but not at the same time.

• 55:53Michelle Obama?

  Sometimes it's easier said than experienced.

• 55:57Speaker 03

  Most of the time, it's easier said than experienced.

• 55:58Michelle Obama?

  I'd love to hear more from you about how you felt through those moments and, you know, how you're, I know you're still dealing in those moments. How does that, how are you coping with that reality?

• 56:14Speaker 03

  That is an excellent question.

• 56:15Speaker 00

  Very good question.

• 56:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know, it, it, it,

• 56:21Speaker 03

  gosh, it's a really good question because when you first,

• 56:25Speaker 03

  I mean, you can see it. I mean, you're, you're pregnant and everything, everybody's like, oh, so excited for the both of you. And then you look down.

• 56:32Speaker 03

  Looking at you, you look, you know what I mean? And you're slowing down and you're changing and you're waddling and this, you know, like, wait a minute. How, like, I, I'm already slower than I had really bad hyperemesis, which is when you just, you know, you're sick, sick, sick and, you know, and then, not, not sharing any of that.

• 56:50Michelle Obama?

  Going to the gym.

• 56:51Speaker 03

  Going to the gym.

• 56:52Michelle Obama?

  I'm gonna give a good workout in. And you're like, shut up.

• 56:55Speaker 00

  That makes everybody mad. I see this now. This is a universal thing.

• 56:59Speaker 03

  And then he tried to tell me, and the baby was brand new. He's in the gym. He's like, but, but I'm working out outside in the garage. You're welcome. Like, and he really felt like he had given me this very magnanimous gift. And I was like, if I could get up from this couch and beat you into the, like, I would, you know, and, and again, it's you, you're watching and again, you want to be, that's the pull, I think, that a lot of women don't realize. Women don't realize the kind of mother they're going to want to be until the baby shows up.

• 57:28Michelle Obama?

  There you go.

• 57:29Speaker 03

  And you have no idea.

• 57:30Michelle Obama?

  No idea.

• 57:31Speaker 03

  No idea. Some women decide, you know, whether it's breastfeeding, whether it's, I wanna, whatever it is, you don't know. It's an experiential thing. And when you, the, all those decisions are made very deeply in your core. And I don't want to say they're made on the fly, but they're made in the sort of like, just the baby's here, that's the decision. And so you had all these plans, right? And everybody told you, girl, you gonna snap back. Girl, all you have to do, remember how we read them? You just do the cleanse, girl. Do the cleanse, you know? And you're like, okay, well, I'll just. And in your mind, you really believe that you're gonna just do this cleanse. You're gonna pop back. You're gonna put that baby in a little pouch and you're just gonna, you know?

• 58:14Michelle Obama?

  Drop them off somewhere or have somebody else come in? You don't even know how you'll feel about that.

• 58:18Speaker 03

  You don't know how you're gonna feel about.

• 58:20Michelle Obama?

  When you'll be ready for that.

• 58:22Speaker 03

  You don't know how much this gonna cost.

• 58:24Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, ooh, yes.

• 58:25Speaker 03

  You don't know that the woman that you wanna hire has, was given a signing bonus.

• 58:30Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my. I tell the, I tell the story when I, we did find a babysitter that was really, really good. And she came to us, everything. I was back to work. I love this woman. She was a part of our family, loved the girls. And she just needed to make more money. And we couldn't pay her more money. And she left. And I still feel that her, like, I feel the like, you know? I was losing my real partner.

• 59:00Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:02Michelle Obama?

  In this endeavor. Oh, I wouldn't have thought I would have felt that way about my babysitter. My, she, you know?

• 59:09Speaker 03

  I know.

• 59:10Michelle Obama?

  And that sent me spinning. That one thing sent me spinning in a fit of deep desperation that I would have never thought.

• 59:21Speaker 03

  Well, of course. I mean, and I, having had that experience, I unders, if I hadn't had kids, I'd be sitting here go, oh, that sounds, that's like a lot. Are you sure? I mean, maybe you should, is that PTSD? But you have to experience that, you know? Like, Zoila is, is, Zoila Palacios is our, our, our girl. We, I call her my sister wife. You know, she, and, and.

• 59:43Michelle Obama?

  Shout out to Zoila.

• 59:44Speaker 00

  Zoilita.

• 59:44Speaker 03

  Zoilita.

• 59:45Michelle Obama?

  Hey, girl, we love you.

• 59:47Speaker 03

  We do.

• 59:47Michelle Obama?

  We love our Zoilas in our lives.

• 59:49Speaker 03

  We, and you, because you, you have that, you know, that, what we, what we grew up with, with, with that village, the grandparents, like, somebody. You know, my grandmother never left the house. Somebody was always dropping a child off at that woman's house. And my grandmother was like in her seventies. And could barely walk and here, here, I'm like, you got a, whose toddler is that?

• 1:00:09Michelle Obama?

  She's like, I got him.

• 1:00:12Speaker 03

  And nobody batted an eyelash, didn't have a, a thing and not nared a socket in the house. You know, the little thingies.

• 1:00:18Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 1:00:19Craig Robinson?

  Nothing to protect them.

• 1:00:20Michelle Obama?

  And, and nobody was worrying about what they, what, what, what strain of food they were eating. Whatever grandma gave you.

• 1:00:27Speaker 03

  Was totally fine. She was, she has some fat back, some sauce and a biscuit.

• 1:00:32Michelle Obama?

  Baby holding on to some kind of bones. Like, I think they should have me.

• 1:00:37Speaker 03

  In a hamper. In a hamper.

• 1:00:41Speaker 03

  You know, and nobody questioned it, right?

• 1:00:43Michelle Obama?

  Who just knew your baby was loved and safe.

• 1:00:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, cuz, cuz my grandma had them, you know, and.

• 1:00:49Michelle Obama?

  Those communities are gone.

• 1:00:50Speaker 03

  We didn't have that. And so we're, and we're some of the first people who don't have that. And so then we have to hire that and find that. And to your point, it's like losing a, it's not like, it is losing a family member. It is losing a crucial part. And you, again, you don't know what you're going to feel and experience until you get there. And again, to your point about each season, so now I'm like, okay, well, it should be getting easier, right? Because they're older and, and I got a 14 year old and I'm like, oh, well, I'll just.

• 1:01:22Michelle Obama?

  You're a chauffeur.

• 1:01:23Speaker 03

  Let me just, I'm a chauffeur, but I also, I'm like, I clearly need to ride the bus with you. I clearly need to be in every class. I clearly need to be in, stop. Because what is half man's thing? He, well, he thinks he can. He told me once, he was like, all I need you is learn how to use this toaster oven. And then I've got it. Like, I've got it. Like, I'm basically a man. And I was like, hmm, you don't know the wifi code.

• 1:01:43Craig Robinson?

  All I need is a credit card and a driver's license. I can live on my own.

• 1:01:48Speaker 03

  Really, sir?

• 1:01:51Speaker 00

  He said, all I need you guys to do is take me where I need to go.

• 1:01:55Michelle Obama?

  No, that's, that's a big one. But, but for that.

• 1:01:59Speaker 03

  Right, but for that. I was like, and who's going to have a school?

• 1:02:02Speaker 00

  And he didn't even mean it.

• 1:02:03Speaker 03

  Didn't think about that.

• 1:02:04Speaker 00

  He was like, please, just leave me alone. Take me where I need to go.

• 1:02:06Speaker 03

  He did ask me when I was, he was three and he was said something, he was, something was happening. He was three and he was like, why you always in my business?

• 1:02:16Speaker 03

  That's another thing. The thing that you love about this man, you are gonna see it in a child. And then you have to raise them. You're like, oh, Lord, I should have thought this through. But all of that to say.

• 1:02:35Michelle Obama?

  But every phase is different. And now you're, you know, just when you thought.

• 1:02:38Speaker 03

  Just when you think.

• 1:02:38Michelle Obama?

  Because you didn't know.

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  Again, it's the experience of it. And it's like, and now you see, oh, this is how things can go left. Because you think it's when they're little and you're just pouring in, you're pouring it.

• 1:02:49Michelle Obama?

  Don't you want those days back when they were so in your control? And all you had to worry about them was falling and scraping a knee. And now they are in the world, this world.

• 1:03:01Speaker 00

  It's a good conversation, guys.

• 1:03:02Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:03Speaker 00

  You guys are good.

• 1:03:05Craig Robinson?

  We're just learning. We were learning from the experts here.

• 1:03:08Speaker 00

  No, I feel the same. I feel like even in a rise approach, and I feel you guys are similar, is like, we try to enter into everything with a level of curiosity. We're not experts on anything and just hoping to learn. Like, we're all in a process of evolving to become the best form of ourselves. I think in doing that, like, there is just sort of like, teach me. Like, I'll share a thought, and then let's see how it all sort of reverberates in the cipher.

• 1:03:36Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 1:03:40Craig Robinson?

  What I love about doing this, aside from getting to spend time with my little sister

• 1:03:45Speaker 00

  Yes, sir.

• 1:03:46Craig Robinson?

  on a regular basis, is that you, I learn something new in every conversation. And even at this age, to come to work every day and feel like you're learning something new is inspirational.

• 1:04:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, agreed. Agreed.

• 1:04:04Speaker 03

  We agree. We all agree.

• 1:04:07Craig Robinson?

  Well, we have a question that we get from our watchers and listeners.

• 1:04:14Speaker 00

  Oh, this is good.

• 1:04:15Craig Robinson?

  And this one is from our hometown, Jackie from Chicago.

• 1:04:19Speaker 00

  Come on, Chi-Town.

• 1:04:20Speaker 03

  I love Chicago.

• 1:04:22Speaker 05

  Craig, shout out from Chicago. I'm writing to seek your advice about my relationship with my husband of five years. We both teach at the college level and share a deep commitment to education and our students. And much of our connection is built on a love of learning and a belief in bettering ourselves and the world. However, our creative paths and temperaments are quite different. I work in substance abuse, social work, and my husband is a musician and visual artist with a strong creative drive. We each experience our work so differently. My husband tends to experience excited, creative highs surrounding performances and exhibits, followed by times of withdrawal and low mood after he's done or between shows. In those times, he's focused on his classes and getting the next show off the ground,

• 1:05:06Speaker 05

  but he can seem quiet and distant at home. He kisses me goodnight, tells me he loves me, but doesn't initiate much conversation or interaction. Although I need some creativity with problem solving in my work, I'm not involved in the creative arts at all and don't necessarily experience the same emotional waves. Here's where I need your advice. I sometimes find myself hesitating to ask for intimacy or suggesting going out on a date when my husband is experiencing these moments of just needing to recharge by sitting together quietly watching TV. I worry if I ask for affection or conversation or intimacy during these phases, I'll sound selfish or insensitive, but if I don't speak up, I start to feel disconnected and dissatisfied.

• 1:05:49Speaker 05

  I want to be a supportive partner during his creative slumps, but I also need to feel seen and wanted, and I miss the closeness that comes from shared moments out or together in bed. How can I best balance his need for space and creative solitude with my own needs for intimacy, affection, and quality time? How do I show up as a good partner who values his mental health and wellbeing without losing sight of what I want and need in our relationship? Thanks so much for all your great work.

• 1:06:16Speaker 00

  Tell Jackie to get out of my marriage.

• 1:06:20Craig Robinson?

  Welcome to IMO.

• 1:06:21Speaker 00

  What? Jacqueline?

• 1:06:27Speaker 00

  Because here's the thing. And you'll probably say the same thing, possibly or not. I think I'm Jackie.

• 1:06:34Speaker 03

  Are you Jackie?

• 1:06:36Speaker 00

  I think I'm Jackie.

• 1:06:36Michelle Obama?

  Ryan's like, I'm Jackie.

• 1:06:38Speaker 00

  That's what I was about to say. That's why I was like, you may feel the same way. But she asked you guys, so you guys.

• 1:06:44Michelle Obama?

  No, she's asking the table. She's asking the table.

• 1:06:48Speaker 00

  I mean, I'll start on it because like, I feel like we had a conversation kind of like this last night.

• 1:06:54Michelle Obama?

  Oh, wow. Tell us more. Are you OK, Ryan? We ready?

• 1:06:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:58Michelle Obama?

  I'm wondering where he's going.

• 1:06:59Speaker 03

  Oop, face it.

• 1:07:00Speaker 00

  But it was about sort of,

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  for me, understanding the nature between acceptance and resignation.

• 1:07:13Speaker 00

  In terms of like, this is what it is. Like, what to fight to change and what to accept in its current status and be at peace with. And like, the difference between acceptance and resignation, as far as I can conceive of in this moment, is acceptance has a certain level of peace and resignation has a certain level of sorrow.

• 1:07:34Speaker 00

  And sort of like, what, when to fight, when not to fight, when to yield, etc. So I can say this and you step in, please. Because I want a back and forth on this one because it'll feel better. My experience of Rye when she is working versus when she is not working is very different. And there is a level of just sort of like

• 1:07:57Speaker 00

  joy. And because there's a certain level of fulfillment from coming to do, because she's enjoying doing the thing that she's want to do, what she wants to do, right? And

• 1:08:13Speaker 00

  so we ride a wave sometimes. We ride a wave sometimes. And

• 1:08:17Michelle Obama?

  Do you feel closer when she's in that joy?

• 1:08:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:22Michelle Obama?

  OK.

• 1:08:23Speaker 00

  Hands up. Hands up.

• 1:08:24Michelle Obama?

  So the not working part you describe as that's Ryan's slump?

• 1:08:29Speaker 00

  Yeah. Agree, disagree? I mean, you speak on it because I don't want to go too far. Yeah.

• 1:08:36Speaker 03

  Back to Jackie.

• 1:08:40Speaker 03

  I was, I was trying to discern.

• 1:08:42Michelle Obama?

  Too shame, as the children would say.

• 1:08:44Speaker 03

  Is she talking about the times when her husband is not working at all on something creative? Or is she talking about the low that comes from like coming off of the stage, right? Because that, that's a real thing. Like you come off the stage and you have this high from doing whatever it is. And then you come off and you're just buzzing. And then you kind of go into a slump either like immediately after. So I'm trying to just discern, is she talking about? He's had this incredible emotional high. He's come off stage and now he's home and he's like, ugh. Like feeling the after effects of that. And that's when she wants to sort of step in? Or is it he's been on a creative journey, had a wonderful time? And then he's in between creative journeys?

• 1:09:29Speaker 03

  So I'm.

• 1:09:30Michelle Obama?

  I read it as the latter.

• 1:09:32Speaker 03

  The latter.

• 1:09:32Michelle Obama?

  But that's how I answered, that's a good question. That's how I interpreted it because it, it, it sounds like, you know, those periods, you know? Because the after stage, I need, I, I need a, a day. Is a different emotional, would create a different emotional instability for Jackie than. I, I haven't, I'm not in my element for a year or months, right?

• 1:10:00Speaker 03

  Right, right, right, right, right.

• 1:10:01Michelle Obama?

  And that could lead to the kind of disconnection that she's talking about. Yeah. So I interpret it as the, these are, you know? There are periods in a creative person's life when things aren't coming, things aren't gelling. And he seems, Jackie's partner seems to get really low and disconnected. That's how I'm reading it.

• 1:10:24Speaker 03

  Okay. Okay. Thank you for that clarification.

• 1:10:31Speaker 03

  This is hard. This is a very difficult question. You know, I think, I think that there has to be, well, we, you know, we already said that your happiness is your own responsibility, right? And I don't want to tell Jackie necessarily to go do her own thing. But I do think that there is something about creating structures around these times, especially if you know that these are times that happen. I'm not sure in their relationship, because she mentioned that they were both professors. So I'm wondering if they can, it might be easier for them to create structures around this, because maybe there are like set points in a year where he's like, "I just finished a show," or, you know, something like that.

• 1:11:14Speaker 03

  So maybe it's helpful, I hope this is helpful for Jackie, to set up those structures when she knows he needs a couple of weeks. And maybe, maybe put a timer on it, you know? Jennifer Aniston said something that I love. She said that her, her therapist told her, "You get a year to grieve this." Like, to the day, like, and it starts now. Now you're on the clock. And when that year is up, that's, we're done. And I do think that there's something to that. Maybe there's something to giving him two and a half weeks, three weeks. And she knows those three weeks are coming, so she can set up her own life, her own, you know? And I say she should go on vacation, although Jackie should go on vacation. That's not the worst idea. But maybe there's a way that she can know that these things are coming.

• 1:11:59Speaker 03

  He can have his time, and then when those three weeks are up, he has to re-engage with her. So maybe both of them can have what they need, and he may not understand that this, he may not even know it's happening. Because it's just his, how life has been for him. And now he has to contend with another person. And his way of dealing with it... Doesn't, it just doesn't work.

• 1:12:23Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I latch on to the question of should I communicate these thoughts? That's Jackie was asking, and I would say, yes. You communicate to your partner how this is making you feel because maybe you don't feel like you're in a safe space. But I think at the very core, I would say, Jackie, it is not helpful for you to hold on to these feelings and not involve your partner in this challenge. And it may be better to do it in a time where he's up, you know? Rather than piling on at a time when he's perhaps already emotionally vulnerable.

• 1:13:09Michelle Obama?

  So thinking ahead to like, okay, you know, assuming that all else is fine and they're not teetering on the brink, that she's got to remember how she feels when times are good, you know, or remember the bad times when times are good. Because sometimes it's hard to have a conversation when everything is, a tough conversation when everything is good.

• 1:13:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:31Michelle Obama?

  But it might be necessary for her to say, hey, you're winning. Look at you. You just created this and now you're coming home. Now let's talk about last month, you know? I didn't want to share this with you, but you know, I don't even know if you notice, but when things aren't going well for you, you tend to show up in this way. It makes me feel this and feel that. Can we talk about that? Do you see it in the same way? You know, because she also wants to get a sense of what is, what is he really feeling? She's interpreting what she thinks he's feeling if she hasn't asked. So she's got to give him some space to say, right, wrong.

• 1:14:12Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:14:13Michelle Obama?

  You know, no, that's not it. Or, ooh, spot on.

• 1:14:18Michelle Obama?

  And then in that moment, let's talk through this. Let's talk through a plan. And this, I think this, Ryan, is where the plan of. Can we get some agreement now? That if we, if we both agree that we're doing, you're doing this and that it's making me feel this way, how can we resolve it? And is there a period of time? Is there a signal? Is there a word? Is there a, or do we set up a structure that no matter what, we're always gonna go on a date night once a month? We're always gonna mark the box when we are intimate? We're gonna, we're, we're, we're just gonna practice our way through your bad time?

• 1:14:56Michelle Obama?

  But that's gotta be a joint.

• 1:14:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:14:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, cuz he may not know. You know, that's what, he may not even realize, especially if this is something that he's been doing, you know, before they got married. So he, he might, it may be a complete blind spot for him. It might be a blind spot, Jackie.

• 1:15:12Michelle Obama?

  It might be a blind spot.

• 1:15:13Craig Robinson?

  But that's good. So we, we got some points for Jackie. And I think it starts with the communication part. You have to communicate it. And then, um.

• 1:15:22Michelle Obama?

  And she shouldn't feel guilty or feel like she should hold on to it.

• 1:15:26Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, I, I, there, there's some other issues there if she feels, doesn't feel like she can communicate.

• 1:15:31Speaker 00

  There's, there's something I think that may not have been fully articulated that was part of our conversation in terms of what you said, man. If you make a bid for connection and you feel as if that bid for connection gets rejected, then it's like, then what do you do?

• 1:15:45Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:46Speaker 00

  You know what I'm saying? It's like, oh, boy. It, I, it's like playing double dutch sometimes. Like, when do I get in with this cat to try to make this connection? And if you got hit by the rope, you're like, ah, damn, come on up. Didn't get in at the right time.

• 1:15:57Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. You gotta be blunt, though.

• 1:15:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:15:59Craig Robinson?

  You have to be blunt if that happens.

• 1:16:02Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:16:02Craig Robinson?

  I, I, that just.

• 1:16:03Speaker 00

  Speak on it, Coach. Come on.

• 1:16:04Craig Robinson?

  In my, uh, experience, you can't tiptoe into the rope, right? Or if you tiptoe into the rope, you know you're gonna get hit.

• 1:16:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:13Craig Robinson?

  But if you go in confidently and bluntly, you're gonna jump right in and get your steps down.

• 1:16:19Speaker 03

  That is good. Maybe that's what she needs. She just needs the confidence to boldly say what her truth is.

• 1:16:25Craig Robinson?

  Or, or I need to have a deeper conversation about what's going on here. And that gets to the negotiation, which gets to your structures. I mean, I love the stru-, I, I'm, I'm a structure person. Like, just tell.

• 1:16:39Speaker 00

  You have 30 points. Yeah.

• 1:16:40Craig Robinson?

  Coach me. Coach me up.

• 1:16:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:42Craig Robinson?

  Coach me up.

• 1:16:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:43Craig Robinson?

  And I will do what I can. But you know, and sometimes in these relationships, and I don't wanna get too far afield, I want Jackie to hear those three points.

• 1:16:51Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:16:52Craig Robinson?

  But I also.

• 1:16:55Craig Robinson?

  Want to talk about how Jackie can't be one of these folks who gets upset because the guy is like, "Coach me up."

• 1:17:08Craig Robinson?

  She doesn't want him to say, "Coach me up." She wants him to figure it out on his own.

• 1:17:13Speaker 00

  You're expecting people to read your mind is what you're talking about.

• 1:17:17Craig Robinson?

  Expect people to read your mind, which is why you gotta, you gotta go in bluntly.

• 1:17:21Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:17:22Craig Robinson?

  That's why you gotta go in bluntly.

• 1:17:23Michelle Obama?

  Well, and then you gotta acknowledge that for Jackie, expressing her intimacy needs could feel, it could, it could feel risky. She may make her feel vulnerable. I mean, sometimes asking for, having to ask, you know, that might tap into some insecurities about her. It's like, maybe I'm not worthy, maybe I, you know. So, you know, sometimes that, that I want you to read my mind stuff is about, like, don't make me say it.

• 1:17:57Speaker 00

  Come on, empathy.

• 1:17:58Michelle Obama?

  Like, don't, don't make me say it because it's hard for me and I feel unsafe. And this is where you gotta know your partner. Cause where, what's their history of safety and intimacy?

• 1:18:09Speaker 00

  I am Jackie.

• 1:18:10Michelle Obama?

  You know.

• 1:18:13Speaker 03

  You guys had someone on your podcast who was talking about the edge of vulnerability, like finding the edge in terms of the vulnerability with, with your partner. And I feel like this is like.

• 1:18:25Michelle Obama?

  That was Orna.

• 1:18:27Speaker 03

  And this is very much that, like, she is really, Jackie sounds like she's at the edge. You know, to your point about like, well, there's something there that's very scary for her. And she's at that edge and like teetering, you know? But I think she's, she may feel unsafe, but.

• 1:18:45Michelle Obama?

  Sterling is feeling it.

• 1:18:52Michelle Obama?

  Just let it go. You are good enough.

• 1:18:59Michelle Obama?

  Ryan's like, please, boy.

• 1:19:05Speaker 03

  I think Jackie is, she chose this partner for a reason. And I think she should remember that and remember that she, it may feel unsafe, but I think, I like to believe that she might be safer than she realizes.

• 1:19:18Speaker 00

  You know now, you know I'm Jackie, don't you?

• 1:19:21Speaker 03

  You are not Jackie. You are not Jackie. Jackie is Jackie. You are sterile. Me Jackie, love.

• 1:19:28Speaker 00

  I am every woman. Hit songs and.

• 1:19:34Craig Robinson?

  Now, now, wait. I, I, I, I hope Jackie knows we're not taking her thing lightly.

• 1:19:41Speaker 03

  No, she got some good direction here.

• 1:19:44Craig Robinson?

  Now, I wanna, before we move on to the IMO segment, the social segment.

• 1:19:49Speaker 00

  Yes, sir.

• 1:19:50Craig Robinson?

  You two met each other before today, but you didn't get a chance to. So tell me about that.

• 1:19:58Speaker 03

  You've been rubbing it in for years.

• 1:20:01Speaker 00

  It's been like 12, 13 years.

• 1:20:02Speaker 03

  Until, yes, for years.

• 1:20:04Speaker 00

  I did a show called Army Wives on Lifetime. And there was, I believe it was like a luncheon for, for.

• 1:20:12Speaker 03

  Military moms.

• 1:20:14Speaker 00

  Military spouses, et cetera. And you invited the cast of Army Wives, because we were on the air at the time. And it was, it was like an episode of Key and Peele, the receiving line. Everybody was in the receiving line and all the ladies were coming through. And, and Madame First Lady was like, nice to meet you. Thank you for coming. Thank you for your. And then that, and Brown got up and I was like, can I have a hug? And she said, boy, please, come. And we just, our ears were like locked. The arms were out. The guns were showing. I was like, bruh, guess who hugged me today?

• 1:20:49Craig Robinson?

  A real hug.

• 1:20:50Speaker 00

  Madame First Lady held me in her arms. And I felt loved and seen and appreciated. And, and Ryan looked at me like. Are you s- she was so mad.

• 1:21:04Michelle Obama?

  I was so mad.

• 1:21:05Speaker 00

  And the more, the more I shared, the more angry she became. And then the more I shared. I was like, she hugged me close.

• 1:21:13Michelle Obama?

  It's not even right.

• 1:21:14Craig Robinson?

  So, did you, did you commemorate that, the?

• 1:21:19Speaker 00

  It was, it was a, one of the great days of my life.

• 1:21:22Craig Robinson?

  So, so I know my sister wanted to commemorate.

• 1:21:25Speaker 00

  No, you haven't. You haven't.

• 1:21:28Michelle Obama?

  Watch your Achilles.

• 1:21:29Craig Robinson?

  Do not hurt yourself.

• 1:21:31Speaker 00

  Oh my gosh, Brian, what a lie.

• 1:21:35Michelle Obama?

  He likes to be right.

• 1:21:39Speaker 00

  This is joy, you guys.

• 1:21:44Speaker 00

  This is like the greatest day of my life, but you gonna get to take a picture after this and then you'll be fine. And this is.

• 1:21:50Craig Robinson?

  We are going to get a, a copy of that so that Nish signs it for you.

• 1:21:56Michelle Obama?

  I remember that moment too, Sterling. I do, I do. Was, was one of the things, one of our strategies with joining forces, our effort to support military families, was working with Hollywood runners and writers to really, you know, reward and uplift shows that were shining a light on military families and also get writers to put them into scripts in ways that were normal and natural because most people don't understand that struggle.

• 1:22:23Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:22:24Michelle Obama?

  So you, your show was, you know, one of the leading ones and we thought a lot of the military wives and moms were watching it.

• 1:22:33Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:22:34Michelle Obama?

  So, we were like, this would be a fun moment. So, it was really special. I think my mom was probably there too.

• 1:22:41Speaker 00

  I think she was.

• 1:22:42Michelle Obama?

  At that, at that luncheon, but it was really, and the fact that the cast and, and crew took the time to come to the White House to help honor the, the, those women who were sacrificing and serving.

• 1:22:54Speaker 00

  Look, Bridget Sally in the background there. And I see the belt.

• 1:22:58Michelle Obama?

  I remember all your belts.

• 1:23:01Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, those belts, you can't miss those belts. You cannot miss them.

• 1:23:04Speaker 00

  I don't know if you can come in on my camera. But this happened. Like, bro, you think I'd just be making stuff up? Brown don't be making stuff up.

• 1:23:13Michelle Obama?

  That was the point.

• 1:23:14Craig Robinson?

  Brown don't make stuff up.

• 1:23:15Speaker 00

  This happened. Thank you all very, very much.

• 1:23:19Michelle Obama?

  You are so silly.

• 1:23:20Craig Robinson?

  You are welcome.

• 1:23:21Speaker 00

  The sweetest thing ever.

• 1:23:23Michelle Obama?

  Are you kidding me? We are so thrilled. Well, before we go, because, you know, you guys will be working together again.

• 1:23:31Speaker 00

  Yes, we will.

• 1:23:31Michelle Obama?

  Sort of a bit on the next season of Paradise. One of my favorite shows. I am there.

• 1:23:37Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:23:38Michelle Obama?

  I am, you know, this Johnny come lately.

• 1:23:41Craig Robinson?

  I'm late to the party.

• 1:23:43Michelle Obama?

  Johnny come lately.

• 1:23:44Speaker 00

  I'm there when you're ready.

• 1:23:45Craig Robinson?

  You know, it's much better when I can just breeze through.

• 1:23:47Michelle Obama?

  Well, sometimes I just let them pile up.

• 1:23:49Craig Robinson?

  Oh, do you do that?

• 1:23:50Michelle Obama?

  I do. It's a psychological. No, it's psychological discipline because I just can't. I need to.

• 1:23:57Craig Robinson?

  Psychological discipline.

• 1:23:59Michelle Obama?

  It is.

• 1:23:59Speaker 03

  No, I agree.

• 1:24:00Speaker 00

  Can I say this, this, this last part to end? Because I was talking on That Was Us. I do a rewatch podcast for This Is Us. I was saying this about my wife. And I would put you, Madam First Lady, in the same category. And I'm sure if and when your husband gets a chance to hear this, he'll echo. There is one of the greatest gifts you can give to someone who has not fully realized their potential at that time is to say yes to them in their current set of circumstances and just believe that this is an individual that regardless of they have all the trappings that come along with what I want, success, or what I think success, or what society says success should look like, I still choose you.

• 1:24:41Speaker 00

  That is one of the most like emboldening and like wonderful feelings that you can ever have in life. So to both of you, I say thank you. Because it means a lot. It means a lot.

• 1:24:54Craig Robinson?

  That's a, that's a mic drop there.

• 1:24:56Michelle Obama?

  Really? Aw, aren't you cute?

• 1:25:02Michelle Obama?

  And that's why we stay.

• 1:25:07Michelle Obama?

  And they say things like that. It's like, aw, well, this has been fun.

• 1:25:14Speaker 00

  Yes, this has been great.

• 1:25:15Speaker 03

  We had a great time.

• 1:25:16Craig Robinson?

  Oh, you too.

• 1:25:17Michelle Obama?

  Thank you.

• 1:25:18Craig Robinson?

  This is great.

• 1:25:18Michelle Obama?

  Thank you.

• 1:25:19Speaker 03

  We really appreciate y'all.

• 1:25:22Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:23Michelle Obama?

  Right. They're trying to keep us apart.

• 1:25:27Michelle Obama?

  We did it, no more. No more, it's a pleasure.

• 1:25:32Speaker 03

  Same, same, same, same.

• 1:25:57Speaker 06

  I'm Emma Greed, host of Aspire with Emma Greed, the podcast where I sit down with people who don't just dream big, they build big. If you love Michelle and Craig on IMO, just wait until you hear their episode on my show. Michelle told me about the moment at 26 when she lost her father and her best friend in the same year. It made her walk away from her corporate law career to figure out her why. That's the kind of conversation you get on Aspire. We talk about mindset, ambition, and doing the work that actually moves the needle. So if you're ready to raise your standards and take charge of the life you're building, Aspire is where you start. Follow and listen to Aspire with me, Emma Greed, available wherever you get your podcasts.