Pod Insights IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson Your Turn Will Come with Carol Burnett About this episode This week on IMO, beloved actress and comedy legend Carol Burnett joins Michelle and Craig for a heartfelt conversation about growing up in Hollywood, manifesting her education and career, and the long-lasting impact of The Carol Burnett Show. Plus, the group offers advice to a listener dealing with imposter syndrome. Stay tuned until the very end for a touching moment between Carol, Craig, and Michelle.
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Transcript 11,398 words · 5 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Michelle Obama? What was one of the best things you learned from Lucille Ball?
0:05 Speaker 01 Well, she, now she wouldn't say, "Hi, guys." She was more like the guys.
0:15 Michelle Obama? She was like, she was ready to be a bitch. Oh, now here's the story.
0:26 Michelle Obama? This episode is brought to you by Theraflu.
0:32 Craig Robinson? Hey, how you doing?
0:33 Michelle Obama? Hi, Cray. I am, oh, I am teary. I'm excited. I'm honored because we have one of my heroines here with us today. And we're just gonna get right into it. I want you to introduce our next guest.
0:51 Craig Robinson? Yeah, we have Carol Burnett here. And I'm speechless already, and we just got started.
0:58 Speaker 01 You're not the only one.
1:01 Speaker 01 I am speechless. And as I said before, I'm gobsmacked. I'm so happy to be here and to meet you and to see you again.
1:09 Craig Robinson? We are happy to have you. And just so our audience can understand why Meech and I are so awestruck, excited, whatever words, it's because you were such a big part of our growing up. So I want to tell you the story. When we were kids, school age, we could only watch one hour of TV a day.
1:33 Speaker 01 Wow.
1:33 Craig Robinson? Yes, my parents were ahead of the curve. And we, like you, were cartoon fans. So we spent our hour on cartoons. And my sister spent her hour on The Brady Bunch and things of that nature. But in the evenings, when you were on, my parents watched The Carol Burnett Show.
1:54 Craig Robinson? And, and I just wanna, wanna tell you, one of the things that I really was awestruck about your show, and I didn't understand it, because again, I was just a, I was like 10 years old. I can't even remember how old I was. When you would come out at the beginning of the show and take questions from people,
2:14 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
2:14 Craig Robinson? my 10-year-old brain was like, this woman is the smartest, funniest woman I've ever seen, because she doesn't know what these people are gonna ask. So that was one thing. But it always struck me that every now and then, there was a kid who'd asked you a question, and you were the kindest person to children. And being a child and seeing that, I'm, I'm getting choked up just talking about it.
2:40 Speaker 01 Thank you.
2:41 Craig Robinson? It, it, it really meant a lot. And we were just talking, we wish our mom was here. She would have loved to have been here for this.
2:49 Michelle Obama? She was your biggest fan.
2:51 Speaker 01 You told me that the first time.
2:53 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
2:54 Speaker 01 And I think I sent some videos. And I got the loveliest letter from you.
2:59 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah.
3:00 Speaker 01 Well, you know, the Q and A. I didn't wanna do it.
3:05 Michelle Obama? Really?
3:05 Speaker 01 No.
3:06 Michelle Obama? Yeah, I bet.
3:06 Speaker 01 When we were gonna do our show.
3:08 Michelle Obama? That feels risky.
3:09 Speaker 01 Yeah. And it, uh, the producer came to me, he said, you know, Carol, before you get into sketches with your, black out your teeth and you have a fright wig on and a fat suit and all that, people should really get to know you first. And so, go out, you know, I, I said, but what if, what if they ask, what if they don't wanna ask me anything? Or what if they do and I can't, I don't have a snappy answer? And he said, well, so we'll put some plants in the audience. And then I thought, no, it's gotta be real.
3:42 Craig Robinson? It was real.
3:42 Speaker 01 If, if they stump me with something and I have egg on my face, at least they know we're being honest.
3:48 Craig Robinson? Right.
3:49 Speaker 01 And so, I said, let's try it for three weeks in a row. When we were just gonna start. And if it doesn't work, let's tank the idea. Well, the first show, I was a little nervous and some kind person said, who's the guest tonight? And I went, well, I can answer.
4:09 Speaker 01 And then the next week, and pretty soon, I started to have fun with it. You were enjoying it. And it became one of the most fun things on my show that I love.
4:21 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
4:21 Speaker 01 I love doing, we would, we, we had one woman, I raised her hand, I called on her. She looked like Bea Arthur when Bea Arthur did Maud. Oh, yes. You know, she said, I want to come up and sing.
4:38 Michelle Obama? Oh, my goodness.
4:39 Speaker 01 Okay, come on. Yeah, and she, fearless, she got up there, what's her name? And I remember to this, Terry McCann. I said, okay, Terry. Now, we had a band over on the. Yeah. Twenty-eight piece orchestra. Oh, wow. And I said, what do you want to do? And she looked at the band and she said, you made me love you in the key of G.
5:00 Michelle Obama? Whoa.
5:00 Speaker 01 Whoa, well, of course, the audience was going crazy. She started singing, and she's pretty good, you know? She's going, you made me love. And I joined her, because I knew the song. Now, we're belting away, and we were pretty good. And the audience is clapping, and we were coming to the end. And I had a different thought in my mind about the way to end the song from what she had. Uh huh. And we were doing, and then it kind of started to peter out. Uh huh. And she looked at me and she said, you screwed it up.
5:41 Speaker 01 It was gold. It's great. It was, and it's, you can YouTube it. Oh, you can? Oh, yeah. I'm gonna look that up. I know, and the lady who sings whatever.
5:50 Michelle Obama? We're doing, well, let's, let's start at the beginning, because I want our listeners to know your journey.
6:00 Michelle Obama? Where'd you grow up? We're in our studios in LA and I understand that you grew up not too far from here.
6:06 Speaker 01 Well, I was born in Texas. And we moved out here to be with my mother, who had come out before. It was my grandmother.
6:13 Craig Robinson? Right.
6:14 Speaker 01 In, I was seven.
6:17 Craig Robinson? Okay.
6:17 Speaker 01 You know, and we moved into one room in a building on Yucca and Wilcox.
6:26 Michelle Obama? Right near the Hollywood sign.
6:28 Speaker 01 That's right. I used to climb the sign.
6:30 Michelle Obama? Wow, literally, the letters.
6:31 Speaker 01 Literally.
6:32 Michelle Obama? How old were you when you were doing that?
6:33 Speaker 01 Eleven.
6:34 Michelle Obama? Who took you up there? Did you just wander up there?
6:36 Speaker 01 No, the neighborhood kids.
6:38 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah.
6:39 Speaker 01 We'd be roller skating or flying kites or something. I'm bored, let's go climb the sign. The O's were my favorite.
6:46 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
6:48 Speaker 01 For some reason, the scaffolding, and it was rickety. And, oh my God, we got splinters. And it's a wonder we didn't break our necks, but I just loved climbing. Then I would hang over the O and look all, look at Hollywood, you know, it was just.
7:02 Michelle Obama? What was it like back then? What was the?
7:04 Speaker 01 There was no smog.
7:05 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
7:06 Speaker 01 At all. It was clear every day. And when I'd come out from the building, the first thing I saw was the Hollywood sign up there, you know? And then I went to school here at Selma Avenue School and LeConte Junior High and Hollywood High.
7:21 Craig Robinson? Okay.
7:21 Speaker 01 Yeah. And I lived with my grandmother. We had one room, Mama had a room down the hall. And my grandmother, it was a Murphy pull-down bed, so she was sleeping that. And I slept on the couch.
7:36 Craig Robinson? And so, so you lived with your grandmother in San Antonio?
7:41 Speaker 01 Yes.
7:42 Craig Robinson? And your mom moved out here before you?
7:45 Speaker 01 Right. She came out with my dad and then they got divorced.
7:48 Craig Robinson? Okay, but did she move out here for acting or did she move out here?
7:53 Speaker 01 She wanted to be a writer.
7:55 Craig Robinson? Okay.
7:56 Speaker 01 Like Luella Parsons and Hedda Hopper. She wanted to interview movie stars for magazines.
8:02 Craig Robinson? Okay, okay.
8:03 Speaker 01 She was successful a little bit, freelancing.
8:07 Craig Robinson? Okay.
8:07 Speaker 01 So she did get to interview Bob Hope, Rita Hayworth.
8:11 Michelle Obama? That's big stuff.
8:12 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
8:13 Speaker 01 So she sold a few, but unfortunately, she, she got the disease. She was, became an alcoholic.
8:21 Craig Robinson? Ah.
8:22 Speaker 01 And my dad was already an alcoholic.
8:24 Craig Robinson? Okay.
8:24 Speaker 01 Yeah. And my grandmother.
8:28 Speaker 01 She was a hypochondriacal Christian scientist.
8:34 Speaker 01 Wow, okay.
8:35 Craig Robinson? That's a mouthful.
8:36 Speaker 01 So what was that like? She would say, "I'm going to know the truth. Everything's fine. There is no sickness, no nothing or other." Oh, my God, give me a Phedro Barbitol.
8:49 Speaker 01 Who was the funny one of the adults in your life? My mother had a great sense of humor.
8:56 Speaker 01 And nanny could be funny, my grandmother. But sometimes she didn't know she was. I'd say she wasn't trying. Yeah, right, right. What did you want to be? A journalist. Okay, even through high school? I was editor of my junior high school paper and editor of Hollywood High. What were you reporting on? What was one of your big stories? Well, actually, at Hollywood High, I went to Mr. Thorpe, our teacher, and he was an uptight old guy.
9:26 Speaker 01 He was probably 30.
9:30 Speaker 01 He was very pulled together. I said, "Mr. Thorpe, I have an idea. Do you know the movie star Joel McCray, who was a big movie star in the 30s and 40s and 50s?"
9:42 Craig Robinson? So I watched TCM. My sister does not. I know who Joel McCray is.
9:46 Speaker 01 I know who Joel McCray is. He went to Hollywood High. So I said, "Let me interview Joel McCray."
9:55 Speaker 01 He said, "Well, okay, do it on your own." So I got ahold of where the studio where he had an office. And I called and I said, "I'm editor of Hollywood High School newspaper and I would love to interview him." Yeah. A lot of good. But they thought it was a cute idea. So they, okay. Wow. He said, "All right." And I took the bus and everything and got to the studio. They took me to his office. He was leaned back and he had cowboy boots on and his boots were up on the table and a cowboy hat. And, you know, I was what, 15, 16? And I said... How did you get your start?
10:37 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
10:38 Speaker 01 Really dumb question. And he couldn't have been sweeter.
10:41 Michelle Obama? Wow.
10:42 Speaker 01 And so, and headlines in the Hollywood high school news.
10:46 Michelle Obama? Of course.
10:47 Speaker 01 Interviewing Joel McRae.
10:48 Michelle Obama? What were you, what was, what was your personality like? Were you always outgoing? Because I mean, just to even come up with the idea and have the gumption to get on the bus and go down to the studio. I mean, you must have been a spitfire.
11:02 Speaker 01 And you know what? I think it was the movies because nanny and I, we saved our pennies and we would see maybe six movies a week.
11:12 Michelle Obama? Wow.
11:13 Speaker 01 Which second feature, so it was like my, my ticket would be a dime. And hers would be a quarter. And we'd get in before one o'clock or whatever, before the prices would change. But what I, the movies were my escape.
11:30 Craig Robinson? Okay.
11:32 Speaker 01 I was very quiet and I was a good student.
11:34 Craig Robinson? Uh huh.
11:35 Speaker 01 And so, but I would see Mickey and Judy up there and they wanted to put on a show and my golly, they did, you know? I would see Rosalind Russell, who, that's who I pretended I was when I was going to interview Joel McRae.
11:52 Michelle Obama? Hmm.
11:53 Speaker 01 Because I saw her in His Girl Friday.
11:55 Craig Robinson? His Girl Friday, yeah.
11:56 Speaker 01 So I could assume that, you know? And so I thought, gee, I'll, I'll be a journalist. That's, you know, what, mama, you know, interviewing people. And so, um, I wanted desperately to go to UCLA.
12:14 Craig Robinson? Okay.
12:15 Speaker 01 And, uh, we didn't have the money. Our rent was thirty dollars a month, a dollar a day. And I remember when, when they raised it to that, nanny had a fit.
12:27 Michelle Obama? Right.
12:27 Speaker 01 A dollar a day, just to live in the, you know, anyway. So I knew I was gonna get to go.
12:37 Michelle Obama? You knew in your heart.
12:39 Speaker 01 And I saw myself on campus. It wasn't like I wished it.
12:43 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
12:43 Speaker 01 Or had, I just said, it's gonna happen. And nanny said, we don't have, you go to a secretarial school, do that and then nab the boss.
12:56 Speaker 01 I said, I know, I know I'm gonna get to go.
13:00 Michelle Obama? Now, what do they call that nowadays, young people? Self-actualization or self, what? The young people call it something.
13:08 Speaker 01 I don't know.
13:09 Michelle Obama? Manifestation.
13:10 Speaker 01 I guess that's what I was doing.
13:12 Michelle Obama? That's a thing.
13:13 Speaker 01 Well, this was 80 years ago or more. I know, something like that. No, I was, no.
13:18 Michelle Obama? You manifested it.
13:19 Speaker 01 I was 17 or 18 now. That was 1951, 52.
13:26 Craig Robinson? Okay.
13:27 Speaker 01 Guess what the tuition was at UCLA?
13:30 Michelle Obama? Don, they're usually just gonna stab me in my stomach.
13:33 Craig Robinson? I know.
13:33 Michelle Obama? It was like, what, $500?
13:36 Speaker 01 Forty-three.
13:37 Michelle Obama? Oh.
13:38 Craig Robinson? For the, for the year?
13:40 Michelle Obama? For the year? Wow.
13:41 Speaker 01 They didn't have, it was like, USC was very expensive. But UCLA was. But I, we didn't have it.
13:49 Craig Robinson? Hmm.
13:50 Speaker 01 So, our room faced the lobby of the building we lived in. And then right across, there was a desk for the manager. And then there were pigeonhole mailboxes.
14:02 Craig Robinson? Okay.
14:02 Speaker 01 For each room, each apartment.
14:04 Craig Robinson? Yeah, like slots.
14:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, so in the morning, because I was right there. I'd peek out and see if we had any mail. And this one morning, there was this letter in our slot. So I ran out, I was in my robe, okay? Came back in to the room. The letter had my name, typewritten, address. There was this three cent stamp on it.
14:27 Craig Robinson? Okay.
14:27 Speaker 01 Not canceled though, they hadn't mailed it. They just, somebody put it in there. I opened it up, and there was a $50 bill.
14:39 Michelle Obama? Wow.
14:41 Speaker 01 And to this day, I do not know where that came from.
14:44 Craig Robinson? No way.
14:44 Michelle Obama? Wow.
14:45 Craig Robinson? Who do you think it was? Was it Granny? Was it Nana?
14:48 Speaker 01 Oh, she was, are you kidding?
14:49 Michelle Obama? I'm not spending, he's like, right, and have a husband. She's like, I'm not spending $50.
14:54 Craig Robinson? I wanna know who that was.
14:55 Speaker 01 So do I.
14:55 Michelle Obama? Wow, wow. So that covered your...
14:59 Speaker 01 People in the neighborhood, we were all poor.
15:01 Craig Robinson? Right.
15:01 Speaker 01 You know, we were on what they called in, it was like the WPA, but it was called relief.
15:07 Craig Robinson? Yeah, yeah.
15:08 Speaker 01 In California.
15:09 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
15:09 Speaker 01 And so, and I showed this to Danny. That's such a rent money. We could pay. I said, uh-uh, I'm going to UCLA. So, I got to UCLA. Okay. And I wanted to major in journalism. There was no major in journalism. I could take a course and join the Daily Bruin newspaper, but there was no major.
15:32 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
15:33 Speaker 01 But am I gonna major in? So I looked at the catalog and there was theater arts, which had different sections. Theater arts film, theater arts theater, theater arts writing, theater arts English. So I thought, I'll take theater arts English and take the playwriting courses, join the Daily Bruin and just... Well, when you're a freshman, theater arts, no matter which one you pick to choose to major in, you had to take an acting course. You had to take scenery building. Okay. You had to take costuming. Okay. And so, now I'm in this acting course.
16:20 Speaker 01 Oh, God. And all these kids, they were doing scenes. I was late in getting to the class because I hadn't known about this particular major. So I was about... They'd already been there, maybe two weeks. So they were doing final scenes for the teacher and they were fabulous.
16:40 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
16:41 Speaker 01 I teamed up with a fellow student and he picked a scene from Noel Coward's... Oh, I can't remember the name of it. Where we sang a little bit. Okay. And I pretended, because I love the movies, to be Betty Grable with a Cockney accent.
17:03 Speaker 01 And I became her.
17:06 Michelle Obama? Wow.
17:07 Speaker 01 And we got an A.
17:10 Speaker 01 And then I got into a one act, that student one act, and I played a hillbilly woman. So I went back to my great-grandmother in Arkansas and thought about her. And I remember I had a line where I came in and... You had to be there, but I said, "I'm back," like that. And the place exploded. They laughed and I thought...
17:35 Speaker 01 This is what I wanted to do.
17:36 Craig Robinson? Oh, this is it.
17:39 Speaker 01 An accident because they didn't have a school of journalism.
17:51 Craig Robinson? Hey folks, now that the basketball season has started, I've been on the road a lot lately, spending time connecting with coaches as they start the season. It's been no secret that this past year, I've been staying in Airbnbs whenever possible. These visits have been so satisfying that my time on the road feels less like travel and more like home. One thing that has been my absolute favorite is having access to a full kitchen. I have been doing more cooking on the road than at home, preparing breakfasts, healthy snack options for the day, and even throwing together a quick dinner if I can't find good dinner options. And on my trip, it hit me, my own home is just sitting empty while I'm away.
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19:19 Craig Robinson? when they're sick, no matter where they live or how much money they make. As part of our partnership with Theraplu, we've been asking for listeners' stories about what it's like to balance caregiving and taking time off when you're sick. And it's been eye opening to hear about the struggle that caregivers in particular have when it comes to choosing between taking time off when sick and putting food on the table. The health policy organization KFF reported that about half of working parents lose pay when they miss work to care for sick kids. In 2021, Fair Flue launched the Rest and Recover Fund, and they've committed more than
19:59 Craig Robinson? $1 million to provide micro grants to families and individuals, helping offset the cost of taking a sick day for those who don't have coverage. Learn more or help someone apply for the fund at fairflue.com/righttorecover. This episode of IMO is brought to you in part by Acorns. Back when I was coaching basketball, I saw firsthand how powerful consistency can be. With Acorns, it's the same play: show up, stay steady, and let time do the rest. Acorns is a financial wellness app that makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future. You don't need to be rich.
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22:13 Craig Robinson? So you have your, your epiphany of this laughter makes, makes me feel really good. This is something I want to do. And you end up now going to New York to try and chase your dream of being.
22:27 Speaker 01 With some boyfriend. Not then, he came later. Okay. Yeah. What happened was, uh, one guy came up, he said, can you sing? Can you carry a tune? And I said, yeah, we sing in the kitchen with my grandmother. Mother. And they said, well, we're doing a scene in the musical comedy workshop from South Pacific. And would you be in the chorus of one of the girls who sings, I'm gonna wash that man right out of my hair? Okay, so, okay. Now, I, I've never done it before, but I started belting. Really? And I'd never belted, but I was with all these other girls, so I had courage. He said, you're too loud.
23:14 Speaker 01 But I'd like you to do a scene with one of our guys from Guys and Dolls, where you would sing Adelaide's Lament, which is a very funny solo that this character has. And in it, in the song, she has a cold. So she's sneezing and sniffling, and I thought, I can do that because I don't have to sound pretty. You know, and I did it and. Was good. And I won an award as the most outstanding newcomer.
23:46 Michelle Obama? Wow.
23:47 Speaker 01 In the theater arts department.
23:48 Michelle Obama? Wow.
23:48 Speaker 01 And I thought, I want to go to New York and be on Broadway in musical comedy.
23:53 Michelle Obama? Had you been learning throughout this major about the stepping stones in that career? So you, you knew that New York was the place to be?
24:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, because I didn't look like Marilyn Monroe. I didn't look like even Tony Curtis.
24:13 Michelle Obama? So you're like the movies now?
24:15 Speaker 01 Broadway. Broadway. And again, I knew I was going to get to go.
24:23 Michelle Obama? Manifestation, young people.
24:25 Speaker 01 And so in the musical comedy department, our professor said, there were nine of us. We're going to a party next Saturday night in San Diego.
24:37 Craig Robinson? Okay.
24:38 Speaker 01 And it's a black tie formal affair. Why don't you kids come down and do your scenes as the entertainment for the party? And I'll grade you.
24:47 Craig Robinson? Okay.
24:47 Speaker 01 Okay, so all of us got the cars and went down. And with my boyfriend, I did a scene from Annie, Get Your Gun.
24:57 Speaker 01 Everybody, afterwards, I'm at the hors d'oeuvres table. And I have a napkin and I'm stealing hors d'oeuvres. And I'm like, take home to nanny to put in my.
25:11 Michelle Obama? So she can know that that $50 was worth something.
25:16 Speaker 01 I thought, oh, this is, oh, my God, I'm busted. You know, and it turned around and there was this gentleman and his wife. Black tie, beautiful gown, she had, we like to, what do you want to do with your life? I said, someday, I want to go to New York. And he said, why aren't you there now? I said, well, I'm hoping to get the chance to go someday, but I'm, I'm working. I had a part-time job. He said, I'll lend you the money.
25:43 Michelle Obama? Wow.
25:44 Speaker 01 And he gave me his card. And I looked, I thought that it was the champagne talking.
25:50 Michelle Obama? It's like he's going to forget about this in the morning.
25:53 Speaker 01 He gave me his card, he said, be in my office a week from Monday.
25:57 Michelle Obama? Who was he? What did he do?
26:00 Speaker 01 What happened was.
26:03 Speaker 01 Don and I went down. He was a very wealthy businessman. Went into his office, he said, "Okay, I'm going to lend each one of you a thousand dollars. And payable, you know, for if you can pay it back in five years. Stipulations. You must use the money to go to New York.
26:30 Craig Robinson? Okay.
26:32 Speaker 01 You must never reveal my name.
26:36 Michelle Obama? Okay.
26:37 Speaker 01 And if you are successful, you must help others out.
26:41 Michelle Obama? Wow.
26:44 Craig Robinson? And he wasn't in the, in show business?
26:45 Speaker 01 No. What happened was, I found out later that
26:50 Speaker 01 he had helped somebody get started in a restaurant.
26:54 Craig Robinson? Okay.
26:55 Michelle Obama? He just identified talent.
26:56 Speaker 01 Somebody staked him to a claim.
27:00 Craig Robinson? Okay.
27:00 Speaker 01 At one point, and it was like pay it forward.
27:02 Craig Robinson? Pay it forward, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you.
27:04 Speaker 01 Well, when I got home and showed nanny all this money, I thought you were gonna have a heart attack. You can't go to New York, you can't. I have to. I wanted to. Now, here's how stupid I was.
27:18 Michelle Obama? Well.
27:19 Speaker 01 I didn't know where I was gonna stay.
27:21 Michelle Obama? You just went, you literally.
27:22 Speaker 01 Got on a plane.
27:23 Michelle Obama? That, the, the, you were the typical yokel off the bus. Was it a bus ticket?
27:29 Speaker 01 It was a plane ticket.
27:30 Michelle Obama? Okay, off, on a plane.
27:32 Speaker 01 A plane ticket.
27:32 Michelle Obama? Had you ever flown before?
27:34 Speaker 01 Nope.
27:35 Michelle Obama? Wow.
27:36 Speaker 01 So now I'm on a plane. I was reading the New Yorker.
27:39 Craig Robinson? Uh huh.
27:40 Speaker 01 And there was an ad for the Algonquin Hotel, which all the witty people would gather and exchange. And I thought, well, that's it, interesting. So I, it was raining, and I love rain when it's good, not torrential. And I walked with my cardboard suitcase to the Algonquin. Checked in, nine dollars, they said, a day. I thought for a week, no, nine dollars a day. Oh my God, yeah. Anyway.
28:11 Michelle Obama? But you're loaded.
28:12 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah. Well, I had left maybe about five hundred dollars because of the plane.
28:17 Michelle Obama? Uh huh.
28:20 Speaker 01 So I got up to the room and I thought, what am I gonna do? I had one phone number. It was from a girl who had been in the South Pacific scene. She was a year ahead of me. And she wrote everybody, said, I'm in New York, so if you're ever here, give me a call. So I called her that morning and I said, it's Carol Burnett. She said, hi, you're here. I said, yeah, where are you? I said, I'm at the Yale of Gaku. What? She's, get out of there and come over to where I am. Where is? I checked out and I had her address. Bing bong, it was a townhouse.
29:00 Michelle Obama? What part of New York was?
29:01 Speaker 01 It was West 54th Street, between 5 and 6. It was a place called The Rehearsal Club. It housed young women who wanted to be in show business. It was very proper, had a house mother, they had rules. There was one cot available. And I was introduced to the house mother and she said, okay, you can come in here, you can be. And it's $18 a week, room and board. It was a godsend.
29:29 Michelle Obama? You had so many angels, you know?
29:34 Speaker 01 I call, I call him Clarence. He's a wonderful wife. There's Clarence.
29:39 Michelle Obama? There he is.
29:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:41 Michelle Obama? Were you ever afraid? I mean, in this process, I mean.
29:45 Speaker 01 I was too stupid.
29:49 Michelle Obama? But you.
29:50 Speaker 01 It was the movies.
29:51 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
29:52 Speaker 01 Again, Mickey and Judy, I'm gonna put on a show, I'm gonna be a.
29:55 Michelle Obama? Right, right.
29:56 Speaker 01 And also, when I was gonna leave UCLA, some friends gave me a party. And they said, what are you gonna do when you get to New York? I said, I'm gonna be on Broadway and it's gonna be directed by George Abbott. And George Abbott was Mr. Broadway. He directed The Pajama Game, Damn Yankees, all of them.
30:18 Speaker 01 And that happened.
30:19 Craig Robinson? And this is another one of those you saw yourself already.
30:22 Speaker 01 I just, I just said, oh, I was bragging, I said it.
30:25 Craig Robinson? Oh, okay, this wasn't one of your manifestations.
30:27 Speaker 01 A few jobs.
30:28 Michelle Obama? No, but it was.
30:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
30:29 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
30:30 Speaker 01 But I finally then got a call to audition for George Abbott. And it was Once Upon a Mattress.
30:36 Michelle Obama? Wow.
30:37 Speaker 01 But that was five years later.
30:38 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
30:39 Craig Robinson? Okay.
30:39 Michelle Obama? Did you have to get an agent at the time? I mean, how?
30:43 Speaker 01 Go get an agent.
30:44 Michelle Obama? I know, yeah, it's like, what do you, how do you break into, how do you come from nowhere with a cardboard suitcase? And even sort of begin? How do you, how did you know what to do?
30:58 Speaker 01 Well, you tried to get into an agent's office and you couldn't get past the receptionist.
31:03 Craig Robinson? Right.
31:04 Speaker 01 They would throw your eight by ten glossy into the wastebasket.
31:08 Michelle Obama? But you knew to get headshots, you did all that?
31:10 Speaker 01 Because I learned that from the girls.
31:12 Michelle Obama? Okay, so you were in like your own little Broadway school?
31:16 Speaker 01 So finally, I did get a, a meeting with an agent. And I showed him my scrapbook from UCLA, you know, reviews.
31:28 Speaker 01 And he says, that's nice, well, let me know when you're in something. I said, how do I get in something? If I don't have an agent?
31:35 Craig Robinson? Right.
31:36 Speaker 01 And he said, go put on your own show.
31:41 Speaker 01 I went back to the club.
31:44 Speaker 01 Called a meeting with all the girls. I said, we're gonna put on a show.
31:48 Michelle Obama? Spanky, we're putting on a show.
31:54 Craig Robinson? And how?
31:54 Michelle Obama? And how?
31:56 Speaker 01 Some of the older girls went, oh, for, great. But there were about 20 of us.
32:01 Craig Robinson? Uh huh.
32:02 Speaker 01 And we wrote and, uh, came up with the idea to what, how, how to do it.
32:09 Craig Robinson? Uh huh.
32:09 Speaker 01 And we showed the first act to the rich ladies who sponsored the club. They gave us $200 to rent the Carl Fisher Concert Hall.
32:20 Craig Robinson? Okay.
32:20 Speaker 01 On a certain night. We sent out penny postcards to every agent, director, producer in town saying, you're always saying, let us know when you're in something. Well, we're in something.
32:32 Michelle Obama? This is it now.
32:33 Speaker 01 This is your ticket. And these are the two nights we're performing, so please come and see us. We were packed.
32:41 Michelle Obama? How many seats in the theater?
32:43 Speaker 01 Carl Fisher, maybe. Two hundred, maybe. Wow.
32:47 Craig Robinson? How long did it take you all to?
32:49 Speaker 01 From the time.
32:50 Craig Robinson? From the time you.
32:50 Speaker 01 From the time, from the time you landed in New York to the time that you put on this show. Oh, okay, that was fifty four. We put on the show in fifty five. So, within a year. Yeah. You, you figured out New York. The movies. Again, Mickey and Judy go put on a show. Right, right. So what was the, what was the? The premise? Yeah, was it a comedy? Was it a musical? What happened was, everybody was gonna get to do their own thing.
33:18 Craig Robinson? Okay, okay.
33:19 Speaker 01 Like, one of my roommates, Tinker, was her name. She was British, really cute. Kind of bouncy and bubbly, was, for some unknown reason, into Spanish dancing. Okay, yeah. She had her cast in it. Yeah. I'm off now.
33:37 Speaker 01 And another one was a ballerina, another one was a soprano. So what we did was, the first act
33:46 Speaker 01 was everybody sitting around in the parlors, supposedly, singing. It's a lazy afternoon, nobody can get an agent, it's just terrible, and they're singing. Did you write the music? No, Lazy Afternoon was from a. Okay, so you took it. Got it, got it, got it. So then, I burst in, all bubbly, and saying, I love New York, and I'm singing this, there's a major song like that. I said, come on, guys, let's get, I know what, let's put on a show. And then we all sang a little thing about that. Second act was the show. Wow. So, Tinker got to do her Spanish dancing. Sally got to sing a song.
34:26 Craig Robinson? Brilliant.
34:27 Speaker 01 What did you do? There was a Broadway show called New Faces of nineteen fifty two, and one of the songs in it was Eartha Kitt. And she was very sexy. Oh, yes. And she sang a song called Monotonous. And the premise of that song was, I'm so gorgeous, I am so sexy, everybody wants me, and it is so monotonous. And she did, she had these chaise langes, and she went from one chaise to the other. Very cat like. Slick around. She would. Yeah, like a, like a lion or a tiger.
35:07 Speaker 01 And it's all monotonous. So what I thought I would do would be to be in curlers.
35:15 Speaker 01 An apron and fuzzy slippers and three broken down kitchen chairs. Singing about how gorgeous I am and it worked.
35:26 Michelle Obama? Oh, man, yeah. So, did you naturally lean into comedy? Did you think, you know, because, you know, Tinker's seriously doing Spanish dancing and somebody's on point. You decide, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go for the laugh.
35:44 Speaker 01 I, yeah, because I remember the laughter at UCLA.
35:47 Michelle Obama? Okay.
35:48 Speaker 01 And then I could sing, so I could do both.
35:52 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
35:52 Speaker 01 So out of that, three of us got jobs.
35:55 Michelle Obama? Wow.
35:56 Craig Robinson? Just from that? So you were able to get an agent from that?
35:59 Speaker 01 I got an agent and I got summer stock. And then I worked with a special material writer. And then I got to play, I had an act written.
36:11 Michelle Obama? Okay.
36:12 Speaker 01 Like a one woman act? Yeah. And I worked at the Blue Angel nightclub. And then the special material writer, Ken Welch, wrote a song called, "I Made a Fool of Myself Over John Foster Dulles."
36:28 Speaker 01 It was at the height of Elvis Presley. So it was very funny for this young girl to have the hots for John Foster Dulles. Because he was aptly named.
36:42 Speaker 01 He wore the hat and he was, you know, he's the Secretary of State. So I did it on the Jack Parr Show. I did it on the Ed Sullivan Show. And so.
36:53 Michelle Obama? So you just took this, this act took you, you were, it was so impactful.
36:58 Speaker 01 What was funny too was after I'd done it on Sullivan, I did it on the Blue Angel, Mr. Dulles was on Meet the Press. And they were talking about all what's going on in the world. And the very last thing they said, "What is this between you and that young girl?" And I'm watching the show, I thought, "Oh, my God, it's live." And he said, "I make it a policy never to discuss matters of the heart in public."
37:32 Speaker 01 So yeah, he had a sense of humor.
37:34 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
37:35 Michelle Obama? Wow, so you became, you were in the zeitgeist of news. You were.
37:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, and it wasn't just the entertainment session.
37:42 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
37:43 Speaker 01 They wrote about it in the editorial.
37:46 Michelle Obama? Wow.
37:47 Speaker 01 I'm wondering if I was a Republican or a Democrat, what she, who is this?
37:52 Michelle Obama? Did your mom and Nana hear about this? That was that when they were like, okay, maybe she's on to something.
37:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:00 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
38:00 Craig Robinson? So now, how did you, when did you parlay that success into television, Hollywood, your own show?
38:10 Speaker 01 Well, I got a chance, I was in Mattress, Once Upon a Mattress. And then there was a wonderful man called, named Gary Moore, who had a major variety show at the time.
38:22 Craig Robinson? Okay.
38:23 Speaker 01 And he knew my work. And his show was a big hit. It was, and one of the guests that one week was Martha Ray, who was a very funny, marvelous comedian. And she got bronchitis. And Gary called me on a Sunday and his show was going on on a Tuesday. He said, Martha can't make it, can you come and learn her stuff and be on Tuesday night with us? I was over there like road runner. Can I? Yeah. So I went, I learned everything and did the show. And Gary, before it went off the air, he told the audience what happened and brought me out on stage. He was so kind.
39:09 Speaker 01 And so as a result, the following September, they asked, he asked me if I'd be on every week.
39:17 Speaker 01 So now I'm doubling with Once Upon a Mattress and the Gary Moore Show. So things are popping.
39:23 Michelle Obama? Wow.
39:24 Speaker 01 You're really, and my God, I was making money.
39:27 Michelle Obama? So yeah, I was gonna ask about that, your lifestyle, no longer in the women's boarding.
39:33 Speaker 01 And so then it was just, I did Gary's show. And then CBS signed me to a 10 year contract where I would do a special a year and two guest shots on some of their sitcoms. But the agent, unbelievable, within the five years he had it in the contract. That if I wanted to do an hour-long comedy variety show, all I have to do is push the button and they would have to give me 30 shows. What? Wow. I mean, that was unheard of.
40:12 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
40:13 Speaker 01 And they said, I didn't even think about it. I said, who wants to be on, that's not me. I want to be on Broadway. I want to, you know, so I totally forgot about it. And then I did another Broadway show and it was not a happy experience. I had a problem with it. I got married. I had my daughter Carrie.
40:39 Craig Robinson? Okay.
40:40 Speaker 01 And I was as cold as yesterday's mashed potatoes.
40:45 Craig Robinson? Professionally, you were. Okay, so the heat is off now.
40:49 Speaker 01 Yeah. So we said, let's move to California, go back to California. And we put a down payment on a house in Beverly Hills.
40:59 Craig Robinson? But wait, did you sign the 10-year contract yet?
41:02 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
41:03 Craig Robinson? So you were in within.
41:05 Speaker 01 It was there.
41:05 Craig Robinson? Yeah, okay.
41:07 Speaker 01 He weren't thinking about it. Yeah, and now we go, oh, God, we got this house. Actually, it turned out to be a house Betty Grable lived in. It was kind of funny. Wow. And so we said, what do we got? And then we said, that contract, we had a week to go before that would be. So you needed to pay for the house. So it's like, okay, let's activate this. Yeah, and it was between Christmas and New Year's. And New Year's, it would have been over the five years. So picked up the phone and I called the Vice President in New York. And, hi, Carol, have a nice Christmas. Uh, Mike, I'm calling because I want to push that button.
41:52 Speaker 01 He didn't remember it. He said, "What button?"
41:55 Michelle Obama? Uh huh.
41:55 Speaker 01 I said, "You know, the one where I get thirty one hour shows." He said, "Oh, let me get back to you."
42:04 Michelle Obama? Let me call my, let me get the lawyers on this.
42:07 Speaker 01 That was it.
42:08 Michelle Obama? Mm hmm, yeah.
42:08 Speaker 01 And he called the next day.
42:10 Michelle Obama? And they were like, "Nope, she's got you."
42:12 Speaker 01 They said, he called back, he said, "Yeah, I see that, Carol, but you know, comedy variety is a man's game."
42:20 Michelle Obama? Ah.
42:21 Speaker 01 It's not for you gals.
42:23 Craig Robinson? Ah.
42:24 Michelle Obama? Boo, yeah, boo.
42:25 Speaker 01 So, he says, "It's Caesar, it's Milton Berle, now it's Dean Martin." You know, we, he said, "We've got this great sitcom we'd love you to do called Here's Agnes."
42:38 Speaker 01 Get your picture out.
42:39 Michelle Obama? Yeah, really?
42:39 Speaker 01 Here's Agnes.
42:42 Craig Robinson? You know, they're not making Agnes's anymore.
42:45 Speaker 01 I always wonder what would have happened. I said, "I don't want to be, I don't want to be the same person every week. I want to do what I did on the Gary Moore Show." Different people.
42:54 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
42:55 Speaker 01 And also, in doing Gary's show, I realized I really didn't want to be on Broadway all the time. Because you do the same thing overnight, after night, after night, after night. Whereas with a comedy variety show, you do that, then next week you got another challenge. You have different songs you can do, different sketches.
43:16 Michelle Obama? Can I ask Carol, just to kind of fill in the blanks of, of support that you had, you know, who your mentors were? I mean, and what, what was it like being a woman in the business at that time? And even before you got to Hollywood and before you pushed that button? I mean, what were the challenges of being a woman in the business at the time?
43:44 Speaker 01 Gary was very supportive, Gary Moore. So I never had a problem there. He was the kindest. And we had another second banana, which they call us, on the show named Derbert Kirby. So he was the guy.
43:57 Michelle Obama? Oh, yeah.
43:57 Speaker 01 And I was the guy. And there would be times we would be reading the script for that week. And he'd have a joke or something, he'd say, "You know what? Give this line to Carol or Derbert, they can say it funnier than I can." That's who he was.
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46:12 Michelle Obama? But you never had an issue as a woman? Or did you?
46:17 Speaker 01 I, I think it was my fault.
46:20 Michelle Obama? What do you mean?
46:21 Speaker 01 Because in that era, the Betty Crocker era.
46:24 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm, yeah.
46:28 Speaker 01 Okay, if a sketch wasn't working for Jackie Gleason or Sid Caesar, they'd call the writers. They'd, "You guys, this sucks. Get over here."
46:40 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
46:40 Speaker 01 If I did it, as a woman in that time, I would be considered a bitch.
46:48 Michelle Obama? Yep.
46:49 Speaker 01 So what I would do would be, if a sketch wasn't working and we're in the rehearsal hall, I'd call the writers. I'd say, "Oh, guys, I'm having a little difficulty with it. Can you come down and help me out?"
47:01 Michelle Obama? Yeah, just like, "Oh, I'm so, I'm just so helpless. I can't tie my shoes."
47:06 Speaker 01 Sure, they'd come down and everything would be hunky-dory. You know, so, but now it's so much better. I mean, it's not all great, but now you've got Tina Fey, you've got Amy Poehler, you've got Kristen Wiig, you've got all these people who have their own production company, who are doing it. Now, the other one, you asked about a mentor, was Lucy.
47:30 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah.
47:31 Speaker 01 She was my pal.
47:33 Michelle Obama? When did you meet her? At what time in your life did you meet?
47:36 Speaker 01 When I was doing "Once Upon a Mattress."
47:39 Michelle Obama? So you were still on Broadway.
47:40 Speaker 01 I was on Broadway. And she came to see the second night. I was more nervous than I was opening night with all the critics. I peeked through the curtain and I saw this orange hair in the second room. I went, "Oh, Lucy." And so after the show, I had, we were in this off-Broadway theater and it was pretty funky in my dressing room. It had a coil curling up from the couch.
48:10 Speaker 01 So she knocks on the door and I open the door. She's, "Hiya, kid." She was 22 years older, so I'm kid.
48:17 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
48:18 Speaker 01 She starts to, I said, "Oh, look out." She says, "I see it."
48:24 Speaker 01 And she sat down, it was like 20 minutes. And got up, she said, kid, if you ever need me for anything, you call me. So like, three years later, I had a special I was doing for NBC. And they said, okay, we'll give you, but you gotta have a major guest star. So the producer said, call Lucy. I said, I don't wanna bother you.
48:49 Michelle Obama? And you hadn't been in contact with her, right?
48:51 Speaker 01 And he said, give her a call. She can do say, I'd love to, but I'm busy. So I got her on the phone. She, hey, kid, you're doing great. What's happening? And I blubbered about, oh, Lucy, I'm doing this. And she interrupted me. She said, when do you want me?
49:09 Michelle Obama? Wow.
49:10 Speaker 01 So we did it. And Zero Mustill was the other guest. It was just those two. And we had the best time.
49:19 Michelle Obama? What was one of the best things you learned from Lucille Ball?
49:25 Speaker 01 Well, she, now she wouldn't say, hi, guys. She was more like the guys.
49:35 Michelle Obama? She was like, she was ready to be a bitch.
49:39 Speaker 01 Now, here's the story.
49:40 Michelle Obama? Okay.
49:44 Speaker 01 She was a guest on my show and we were, had a break, dinner break. So we went across the street to a restaurant from CBS. She's knocking back a whiskey sour. She says, you know, kid, you're doing really great. And it's great that Joe, my husband Joe, was producing the show. He was also a producer of The Gary Moore Show. So he ran the show. And she said, that's great. You got Joe to be running. You don't have, because when I was married to the Cuban.
50:16 Speaker 01 She said, "Desi did everything." Yeah. He invented the three-camera system. He said, "Put them on wheels so they can move around." It was Desi. He took care of the costumes. He took care of the script so that... She said, "All I had to do on a Monday is come in and be silly Lucy." "Now, we got a divorce, and it's up to me." And she says, "So I'm sitting there..." And remember, she had another one called "The Lucy Show," different incarnation? And she said, "And the script was terrible." She said, "Oh, my God, and Desi's not here to fix it." So she called lunch, and she said, "I went back to my office,
50:59 Speaker 01 and I thought, 'I gotta be strong. I gotta be like Desi.'" I know. She went back, and she told them. She said, "I told them in no uncertain terms, 'This is what... You gotta fix this, and you gotta fix that.'" And I mean, it's no words. And she said, "Kid, that's when they put the S on the end of my last name."
51:24 Speaker 01 Lucille Bowles.
51:30 Speaker 01 And she was great. She always sent me flowers on my birthday. And I got up one morning, and she had died on my birthday. And I got flowers that afternoon. "Happy birthday, kid."
51:44 Craig Robinson? Oh, man.
51:46 Speaker 01 Wow.
51:47 Craig Robinson? Now, this business is so full of rejection. And I read somewhere where you never took rejection personally. Can you talk about how you handled adversity in that business?
52:04 Speaker 01 Well... Because kids today fall apart. And I can't remember what I was auditioning for. It might have been a commercial or something. This was before I got on Gary's show and all of that. So I was just starting up. And it was kind of narrowed down to between me and another girl.
52:25 Speaker 01 I thought I had it.
52:28 Speaker 01 But I didn't. She got it. I don't know where this came from. But I thought. It's her turn.
52:37 Craig Robinson? It's just, yeah.
52:39 Speaker 01 It's not my turn. My turn will come. It's her turn. So when I get letters or calls from people who say, how do you handle it? Just say, okay, wasn't my turn yet.
52:48 Craig Robinson? Right.
52:48 Speaker 01 And I was never. Okay. It was for her.
52:53 Craig Robinson? And that didn't come from your upbringing or anything?
52:57 Speaker 01 Oh, no.
52:59 Speaker 01 No, no, no. My grandmother would have had her killed.
53:11 Michelle Obama? Oh, my gosh.
53:12 Craig Robinson? Now, how did you handle being a mom during all of this fame?
53:19 Speaker 01 We were on a school schedule. In other words, we were so, we, a lot of the crew from The Gary Moore Show came out. So we were a well-oiled machine. I, like on Mondays, I would take the kids to school.
53:36 Craig Robinson? Okay.
53:36 Speaker 01 And then I'd go to work.
53:38 Craig Robinson? Okay.
53:38 Speaker 01 And we would be finished in time on a Monday for me to come and pick the kids up.
53:42 Michelle Obama? It's a perfect job. So what was Carol Burnett, the mom, like? What was it, what was it like when Carol Burnett showed up in the pickup line?
53:54 Michelle Obama? Were, were you, were, were you Carol Burnett in their lives or were you?
54:00 Speaker 01 I was mom.
54:01 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
54:01 Speaker 01 I was mom, yeah.
54:02 Michelle Obama? How did you manage that? I mean, you.
54:05 Speaker 01 It was difficult, yeah. Yeah, it was difficult. And then Carrie, my darling Carrie, got into drugs as a teenager. And it, it took a lot. But we, it was three rehabs. And family sessions.
54:23 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
54:24 Speaker 01 And the last rehab we sent her to, she was so angry with me. I mean, and I said, I, I have to love her enough to let her hate me.
54:35 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
54:37 Speaker 01 And we did, and she, she also was into singing and music and all of that. And the last rehab we sent her to, she had this wonderful doctor. He was young.
54:51 Speaker 01 And she was ranting, she told me this later. She said, I was ranting and raving, and I said, I wanna be Janis Joplin. And he said, well, she's dead.
55:05 Craig Robinson? That's not funny, but that's funny.
55:07 Speaker 01 And she said, Mom, that really hit me. So she sobered up when she was seventeen. She became an actress on Fame.
55:19 Michelle Obama? Oh, she was on Fame?
55:20 Speaker 01 On Fame, she had a regular role on Fame. I did three things with her. I was a guest on Fame twice. And then we did a movie, television movie together.
55:30 Michelle Obama? How was that working with her?
55:32 Speaker 01 She, and she started writing. And she was in a movie called Tokyo Pop, which is now like a little cult film. And she was like twenty-four, twenty-five, and got sensational reviews.
55:47 Craig Robinson? Okay.
55:48 Speaker 01 And Marlon Brando called her.
55:50 Craig Robinson? Wow.
55:51 Speaker 01 He saw her in the movie. He said, I'd like to talk to you about a project. She turned him down.
55:57 Michelle Obama? Why?
55:58 Speaker 01 I became Maba Rose. I went, are you crazy? Marlon Brando, what are you doing? She said, Mom, I did a movie. Now I wanna write.
56:06 Michelle Obama? Okay.
56:06 Craig Robinson? Okay.
56:07 Speaker 01 I wanna concentrate on my music. She wasn't after being famous.
56:12 Craig Robinson? Right.
56:12 Speaker 01 Or anything. And then we wrote a Broadway show together, and it made, it went to Broadway. Hal Prince directed it. And we were, we were doing great. She was doing great, and then she got sick. Yeah. But, boy, we went through it.
56:28 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
56:28 Michelle Obama? But you got her, got her on the straight and narrow.
56:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:31 Michelle Obama? You know? It's like, I love that. It's like, you didn't need her to be happy with you.
56:37 Speaker 01 Right.
56:37 Michelle Obama? You needed her to be well.
56:38 Speaker 01 Exactly. Exactly.
56:41 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
56:41 Speaker 01 Well, it's true. You have to love them enough to let them hate you.
56:44 Michelle Obama? That's right.
56:45 Speaker 01 And that's hard.
56:46 Michelle Obama? That is. That's the hardest part of parenting, and I think it's a thing that people don't understand. It's like, when you say you wanna be a mother, it's like, well, you better not want a friend.
56:57 Speaker 01 Well, I had no examples. I had no good examples.
57:00 Craig Robinson? Yeah. But now, so many women have you as the example.
57:07 Michelle Obama? Well, you've been... Paying it forward a lot. I mean, you've had a lot of angels on your shoulder. But you have been an angel for a lot of people. Thank you. Did you ever pay that $1,000? Yes, five years to the day. Wow.
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59:17 Michelle Obama? So you, you're, you're still at it?
59:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm very happy. I had a great time recently doing Better Call Saul.
59:30 Craig Robinson? Oh, yeah.
59:32 Speaker 01 I just love Bob Oenker.
59:34 Michelle Obama? How do you, how, how do you feel about working every day now? How's that schedule?
59:40 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
59:41 Michelle Obama? Yeah, what's the schedule like? I mean, because Palm Royale, I fell in love with the first season. I've saved it up season two for our next travel.
59:51 Speaker 01 It's off the wall.
59:52 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah.
59:53 Speaker 01 Well, but I'm not on every day.
59:55 Michelle Obama? I know, but.
59:56 Speaker 01 I haven't, I haven't actually where I work three days a week.
59:59 Michelle Obama? Okay.
1:00:00 Speaker 01 And no more than three in a row.
1:00:02 Michelle Obama? Yeah, really. I mean, you know, that's where I want, that's where I'm trying to be now.
1:00:08 Speaker 01 Just, just say that's what I want.
1:00:11 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah, let's manifest it.
1:00:12 Speaker 01 Exactly.
1:00:14 Michelle Obama? How does it feel being on the show?
1:00:18 Speaker 01 Well, all of a sudden now, I'm 92 years old. I have new girlfriends.
1:00:24 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
1:00:25 Speaker 01 When they called me a couple of years ago to do Palm Royale, I said, who's in it? And Abe Sylvia, who's the creator, said Krista Wiig, Allison Janney, Laura Dern, Rick. I said, stop, I'm in it? I don't care what you want me to do. He said, well, the first few episodes, you're in a coma. I said, that's even better.
1:00:47 Craig Robinson? So when I, I just started watching Palm Royale.
1:00:51 Michelle Obama? Oh, my God, you do so much in a coma, though.
1:00:54 Craig Robinson? But this is what I wanted to, are, are, because whenever they show you on there in a coma, I like start giggling. And I'm wondering, are you doing that to me? Or is it just me doing it?
1:01:10 Speaker 01 It was a good gig, I have to say. Get up at five in the morning.
1:01:14 Craig Robinson? Uh huh.
1:01:15 Speaker 01 And lay back down. Get dressed, go back, get undressed, get into pajamas and go back to bed.
1:01:23 Craig Robinson? But you weren't asleep, you weren't ever asleep.
1:01:26 Michelle Obama? You weren't a lot of lines.
1:01:27 Speaker 01 Didn't have a lot of lines, no, I didn't sleep.
1:01:29 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
1:01:29 Speaker 01 But sometimes there were a couple of scenes where Kristen was doing stuff and Allison, it was hard for me.
1:01:35 Craig Robinson? Not to laugh, yeah.
1:01:37 Speaker 01 But now, like, we're buddies, we're really good, Allison and I, we wordle.
1:01:44 Michelle Obama? Oh, yeah. I wordle, I love wordle, every day.
1:01:47 Speaker 01 I do, every day.
1:01:48 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm.
1:01:49 Speaker 01 Uh, I have to brag.
1:01:51 Craig Robinson? Please do.
1:01:52 Michelle Obama? Okay, yes.
1:01:52 Speaker 01 Mostly it too.
1:01:54 Michelle Obama? You can do all of them too, I get them.
1:01:56 Speaker 01 Not all of them.
1:01:56 Michelle Obama? I, I get them done, I, I can solve all of them, but what are your starter letters?
1:02:01 Craig Robinson? She's getting them in two.
1:02:02 Michelle Obama? I know, it's good.
1:02:03 Speaker 01 We do different, every day.
1:02:05 Michelle Obama? Okay, so you pick the word.
1:02:06 Craig Robinson? She's like, I solve all of them.
1:02:07 Speaker 01 No, Brian, I'll have Brian pick the word.
1:02:10 Michelle Obama? Okay.
1:02:10 Speaker 01 And he'll say, whatever, and then the letters come up, but we don't do the same word every day.
1:02:15 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm, yeah.
1:02:16 Craig Robinson? Ah.
1:02:17 Speaker 01 We have, I think, the record of getting it in one.
1:02:23 Michelle Obama? Uh huh.
1:02:24 Speaker 01 It's only an accident.
1:02:26 Craig Robinson? Right, of course, yes.
1:02:28 Speaker 01 But we have gotten it seven times in one.
1:02:30 Michelle Obama? Well, then that's not an accident, it's more that manifestation stuff going on, Kara.
1:02:35 Speaker 01 No, it was, it was audio.
1:02:37 Michelle Obama? Oh, yeah.
1:02:38 Speaker 01 Audio, bacon, clown, crown.
1:02:42 Michelle Obama? You remember.
1:02:43 Speaker 01 Stash, uh, stash, towel and talon.
1:02:47 Craig Robinson? So, this is my question, how do you stay so sharp at 92?
1:02:53 Michelle Obama? Because you, I'm just sitting here, I can't remember what I did yesterday.
1:02:58 Speaker 01 I can't either, but.
1:03:02 Speaker 01 But I remember when I was three.
1:03:05 Michelle Obama? Well, maybe this is the time to do our listener question.
1:03:10 Speaker 04 Hi, Michelle and Craig. As a young woman, starting her professional career in a traditionally male-dominated field, I have found it most intimidating to network and reach out to more established professionals. I sometimes get nervous that I am wasting someone's time, not making a good enough impression, or that I don't deserve to be in that space. I'm sure that you both have been in rooms where you were told you didn't belong. What advice do you have to overcoming that imposter syndrome feeling?
1:03:36 Michelle Obama? Have you ever felt imposter syndrome? I wouldn't think so.
1:03:41 Speaker 01 Again, I was too stupid. You know, I never, again, I held, I would look at the movies and I would see strong women. And like when I said, I'm going to interview Joel McRae, I got that from watching Rosalynn Russell. So, oh, you don't want to say get over it, but in a way, don't think so much of how of yourself. I'm not good at giving advice.
1:04:17 Michelle Obama? I think you are.
1:04:18 Speaker 01 It's like, you're making, you're making yourself happen that way. Think of somebody you admire who is a woman, and pretend you're that woman, maybe. Lots of times, when I would do the show, and I would do the Tarzan yell.
1:04:43 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
1:04:45 Speaker 01 Or I would do Charo.
1:04:51 Speaker 01 My body, my, I knew what I was doing, but the body reacts in a different way. It doesn't know you're acting. In a funny way. You know, okay, I'll do the Tarzan bit, but somehow, your body reacts differently. And I don't know, maybe, as I say, pretend you're somebody else. And it's much better today. It's not all better, but it's much better today. And I think she.
1:05:26 Speaker 01 She's just got to.
1:05:30 Speaker 01 I can't, I can't say, "Don't worry so much." Because that's not good advice. I don't know what good advice would be.
1:05:37 Michelle Obama? But no, but I, I think that. You know, and it, and it's interesting that because the, the things that run through my head that allow me not to focus so hard on this feeling of, "How am I good enough? How am I showing up?" Sort of giving my power to somebody else.
1:05:57 Speaker 01 Right.
1:05:58 Michelle Obama? There is a generational component. Because I hear what, what you're saying be the same thing that my mother would say. I mean, it's the same, which is interesting that women of an older generation who have faced much more, you know, discrimination, have had to overcome hurdles. The society was set up in a totally different way. But that there is a practicality. It's almost like no one's gonna fix your problems for you, but you. Um, and so all of the work of feeling good enough never, ever really comes from the outside in, you know?
1:06:42 Michelle Obama? And if that's what you're waiting for, somebody to give you permission to feel good about yourself, it doesn't, confidence, acceptance, it doesn't work that way. You know? It's not somebody else's responsibility to make you feel good. And nobody's really thinking about you like that, you know? So.
1:07:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's not coming from them.
1:07:07 Michelle Obama? Yeah, it's not coming from them. The work starts from inside, like in improv, like acting. You, your brain is in charge. And if you wake up in the morning and say, "I decide to have a good day." Like, "I decide to feel good about yourself." That's the beginning. That's the manifestation. It starts from within. And your body will follow and life will tend to follow. So my advice, yes, you could feel imposter syndrome, but I know that.
1:07:41 Michelle Obama? I was raised to believe that I was in charge of how I felt about myself.
1:07:45 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
1:07:46 Michelle Obama? In fact, we would get in trouble in our household.
1:07:49 Speaker 01 Wow.
1:07:49 Michelle Obama? If we showed up worried about what somebody else was thinking.
1:07:53 Craig Robinson? Outside of the house.
1:07:55 Michelle Obama? Yeah, outside of the house.
1:07:57 Craig Robinson? Yeah, I'd agree.
1:07:58 Michelle Obama? Our mom's saying was, you know, you don't go outside of your home to be liked, you know? Come home, we like you here. You know, this is where love is, you know? No one owes you that out in the world. No one owes you acceptance. I think we had the luxury of having that at home. And I think when you have that at home, you're starting with a foundation of, yeah, that person called me a name, they called me a jerk, but I know how the table that matters, how they feel about me. And I choose to believe what I hear from my mother and the people who love me.
1:08:41 Speaker 01 Couldn't I have been in your family?
1:08:42 Michelle Obama? You could have been, yeah.
1:08:44 Craig Robinson? Absolutely.
1:08:45 Michelle Obama? But Carol, you were.
1:08:47 Craig Robinson? You were there every week.
1:08:49 Michelle Obama? So.
1:08:50 Speaker 01 No, but I mean, really.
1:08:51 Michelle Obama? You could have really.
1:08:52 Craig Robinson? You could have really been there, but we would have been watching you.
1:08:55 Michelle Obama? Right, right.
1:08:57 Craig Robinson? But let me just add a bit on what Mish was saying because the validation part, I've never felt like I needed validation outside of our home. Because mom used to say this, she's like, if you prepare for, prepare for whatever you want, then you've done your best. That's all you can ask of yourself.
1:09:23 Michelle Obama? Like you said, it wasn't my, your turn.
1:09:25 Craig Robinson? And I just wrote that down to your point, not your turn then. If you did your best and didn't get it, not your turn. Don't mope about it, go to the next one. And, and it seems simplistic, but it's carried me through a lot of tough times when people have not viewed me as where I think I should be viewed. And I was like, well, that's tough, you're missing out.
1:09:54 Craig Robinson? And it's and and and I and and it's really helped. It's helped me in sports, but it's helped me in life more.
1:10:00 Michelle Obama? I mean, we came up in that kind of of of of parenting.
1:10:04 Craig Robinson? Mm hmm.
1:10:05 Michelle Obama? And I think the kind of overcorrection um from the generation that felt the well, that wasn't quite enough. I think we've gone to the other extreme.
1:10:17 Speaker 01 Well, when I first had the kids and they were old enough to
1:10:24 Speaker 01 understand what I I was doing, what a father was doing. I I don't know if you remember the actress Loretta Young.
1:10:31 Craig Robinson? Oh, yeah.
1:10:32 Speaker 01 Very beautiful and perfect.
1:10:34 Michelle Obama? Mm hmm. Yes.
1:10:36 Speaker 01 I wanted to be perfect. They never saw me angry. They never saw me cry. I wouldn't. I didn't because I was raised. Oh, my grandmother, the brother would go at it like that. It was great over money and liquor. And and and I was sitting in the corner and draw and go and zone out because they were angry a lot and yelling a lot. So I went too far the other way so that I was trying to be perfect for them.
1:11:12 Craig Robinson? Hmm.
1:11:13 Speaker 01 And so when they got angry or they got, well, then we're not perfect.
1:11:18 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
1:11:19 Speaker 01 So that was not a good thing for me to do. I I wasn't. Those first two years, I don't think I was human to them. I was.
1:11:27 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
1:11:28 Speaker 01 Mom. Yeah, mom's got a show. Mom's doing this, mom's doing that, even though I take them to school, good, all of that. I I had that Loretta Young syndrome.
1:11:40 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
1:11:40 Speaker 01 That I call it, and it's wrong. It was wrong. I got out of it eventually, but I had to learn my way because I never had that example.
1:11:50 Michelle Obama? Yep. We're always trying to fix the thing that we think
1:11:55 Speaker 01 Right.
1:11:55 Michelle Obama? was broken in our childhood.
1:11:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, and it's up to us.
1:11:58 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah.
1:12:00 Speaker 01 But I love what you said. It was just.
1:12:05 Speaker 01 Perfect.
1:12:07 Craig Robinson? Perfect. And as far as we're concerned, you're in our family.
1:12:11 Speaker 01 Oh, I feel that way.
1:12:13 Michelle Obama? Carol, you really, I mean, you know, just sitting here and talking about that path. I mean, I don't think that, well, I know, you must hear this all the time, but, you know, we have, we had a happy, beautiful family, right?
1:12:33 Michelle Obama? But your talent, your gifts, the structure of your show, how you showed up in it, like Craig said, you know, your humanity before the show, your honesty throughout your career. I mean, that kind of stuff is, has been as impactful to my development as my parents, right? Because that's the role modeling, you know? You see a smart woman, because what is clear through this is that you've always been that woman. Smart, courageous, bold, and you just brought that to your, your show.
1:13:15 Michelle Obama? And that came into our living rooms as, as, as part of an important experience of seeing what you could be.
1:13:25 Speaker 01 You're gonna make me cry. Oh, thank you. I'm so touched and moved.
1:13:30 Michelle Obama? You mean the world to us.
1:13:36 Michelle Obama? And thank you. You know, you know what I want to do?
1:13:41 Michelle Obama? I want to sing "It's So Nice."
1:13:47 Michelle Obama? "It's Time Together."
1:13:50 Craig Robinson? I love it.
1:13:51 Michelle Obama? "Just to have a laugh or sing a song." "Seems we just get started and before you know it..." "Comes the time we have to say so long."
1:14:09 Speaker 01 Oh.
1:14:09 Michelle Obama? Good night, Carol.
1:14:11 Craig Robinson? All these youngsters have no idea what we're doing.
1:14:15 Speaker 01 Oh, thank you. Thank you.
1:14:17 Craig Robinson? I've got chills. This, this has been absolutely wonderful.
1:14:22 Speaker 01 We love you. Thank you.
1:14:24 Michelle Obama? Thank you for being here. Thank you for being in my life.
1:14:29 Speaker 01 I catch you.
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