Choose Your Creative Path with Erika Alexander and Kim Coles

On today’s episode, actresses, activists and fellow podcasters Erika Alexander and Kim Coles join the show! They go deep on their childhoods, share what it was like behind the scenes of Living Single, and discuss how Hollywood has (and hasn’t) changed in recent years. Plus, Erika shares a surprising revelation she had with a psychic. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I got in my car and I sobbed like a baby because I realized I had not accepted my fate. And I cried for 20 minutes straight where I said, you are an actress.

• 0:11Michelle Obama?

  Was it tears of joy? Were you happy about it?

• 0:14Speaker 00

  No, it was tears of recognition and worthy.

• 0:18Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 0:19Speaker 00

  You just maybe suppressed. And I couldn't believe.

• 0:24Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that you were you.

• 0:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, and maybe my own expectations were not to be an actress.

• 0:31Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 0:31Speaker 00

  To be a scientist or something much more legitimate.

• 0:34Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 0:35Speaker 00

  And yet, this is my life.

• 0:36Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 0:36Speaker 00

  And I have to say, stop running from it. Accept it. You're here and you're doing well. I mean, it's not easy, but I was made for it.

• 0:51Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Rivian and Colaguard.

• 0:57Michelle Obama?

  Hi, Craig Robinson. I haven't seen you in a second.

• 1:01Craig Robinson?

  I know, I know. We had gotten into a good cadence with these and then all of a sudden, boom.

• 1:07Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08Craig Robinson?

  Two months go by, I feel like I haven't seen you.

• 1:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, you are just getting back from more basketball tournaments. The endless slog of AAU.

• 1:20Craig Robinson?

  We had our final event down in Orlando.

• 1:23Michelle Obama?

  So final meaning.

• 1:24Craig Robinson?

  Final for the summer, final for the summer, not final for our lives. 15 and 13, we've got another five years.

• 1:31Michelle Obama?

  So they were at a tournament?

• 1:32Craig Robinson?

  They were at the last tournament of the summer and both of their teams played really well. They played well. And you know me, I treat these as business trips, not as vacations. So it's usually no pool, no late nights.

• 1:48Michelle Obama?

  Why, why?

• 1:49Craig Robinson?

  Because you're just trying to instill some discipline. You're trying to have them ready for the nine o'clock game.

• 1:56Michelle Obama?

  Boo for you.

• 1:57Craig Robinson?

  But this time.

• 1:58Michelle Obama?

  So they're in Orlando, they can't swim in the pool.

• 2:01Craig Robinson?

  This time, I acquiesced and I was like, you know what, guys? You've had a good year, you've worked hard.

• 2:06Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my God, you are crazy.

• 2:08Craig Robinson?

  Go ahead, jump in the pool, jump in the pool, have fun, stay up late. But you know, it was really, really interesting. What was really interesting is.

• 2:18Craig Robinson?

  You remember when I talked a while ago about going on these trips to stand in Airbnb?

• 2:23Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 2:24Craig Robinson?

  There's like four or five families now that are, they were like, oh, that's a good idea. Cause we had them over for ours.

• 2:31Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. So you guys stayed in an Airbnb. You had a whole house?

• 2:35Craig Robinson?

  Every, it felt like everybody had a whole.

• 2:38Michelle Obama?

  There we go. Airbnb. Everybody's catching on. It's like, go get your Airbnb, B and B. Cause you had a pool at your Airbnb that you didn't let the kids use, except for once.

• 2:50Craig Robinson?

  And the convenience of, you know, not having to

• 2:56Craig Robinson?

  pay for food and beverage everywhere you go.

• 2:58Michelle Obama?

  Well, that's good. I'm just glad that you let those boys swim.

• 3:01Craig Robinson?

  I am too. I am too. I'm, I'm, you know what? I'm, I'm easing up in my old age.

• 3:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, you should. You really should. But we, we need to do a podcast on you needing to ease up.

• 3:13Craig Robinson?

  We, you know, we got, you got some lives. You got, you got jokes. I thought we had the comedians on as guests.

• 3:23Michelle Obama?

  Well, we've got a great, exciting show.

• 3:26Craig Robinson?

  Oh, I just can't like, I mean, I mean, you watched Living Single, right?

• 3:32Michelle Obama?

  I, am I breathing black and a female? It's like, yes, yes. All the, all the crew.

• 3:40Craig Robinson?

  Man, and, and you know, you and I didn't get to live single like that. We, we went to college. We had roommates in college, but then once we got out of college, we both lived on our own. And when that show came out, cause that show was out, I was having kids by then. I was so envious of those relationships and the fun they were having and hanging with their friends. And I mean, I was, oh, I can't wait to talk to these two.

• 4:10Michelle Obama?

  Well, we, our, our guests are two of the stars of everybody's favorite, uh, the first real girlfriend comedy for black folks and young folks. Um, uh, you know, and.

• 4:25Craig Robinson?

  And not just girlfriends, cause they had.

• 4:27Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:28Craig Robinson?

  They had guy friends, too.

• 4:29Michelle Obama?

  We'll get into that, because, you know, I saw it while the guys were there.

• 4:33Craig Robinson?

  They were in the backseat.

• 4:35Michelle Obama?

  The friendships of women, in my view, that was the thing that stood out for me. The brothers upstairs, that was nice, but the show centered around that bond that women had and the very different personalities of all your girlfriends. And some people, like, some folks and other folks get on your nerves, but you still find a way to learn from each other and grow. But anyway, introduce our guests, because we were getting way too into it.

• 5:05Craig Robinson?

  We're getting into it, and we need the experts out here. But first, we have Erika Alexander, who is a SAG and Independent Spirit Award nominated actress, known for her iconic acting roles as Maxine Shaw in Living Single, as we've mentioned. She has also starred in American Fiction, which you and I were talking about recently, Get Out and The Cosby Show. And Kim Coles, with over four decades onstage and on screen, is beloved for her role as Sinclair James Jones. And she is also co-host of the hit podcast Reliving Single.

• 5:49Michelle Obama?

  Erika and Kim are co-hosts.

• 5:51Craig Robinson?

  Yes, they are both co-hosts of Reliving Single. So without any further ado, Erika Alexander and Kim Coles.

• 6:00Michelle Obama?

  Erika and Kim, you guys, welcome to I Am a

• 6:18Michelle Obama?

  It's good to have you guys. Come on, sit on in. We could barely introduce you, because we were getting into the whole

• 6:26Speaker 00

  Now my mother can die.

• 6:30Speaker 00

  So she says, "I can't believe that my children, my children have gone places I never thought..."

• 6:39Michelle Obama?

  I was like, "Is that how your mother talks?"

• 6:41Speaker 00

  Yes, I'm not even kidding you.

• 6:42Michelle Obama?

  She's one of those. She was. She a thespian?

• 6:45Speaker 00

  She's a thespian.

• 6:46Michelle Obama?

  She's one of those.

• 6:47Speaker 00

  I think somewhere.

• 6:48Michelle Obama?

  It's like, "Is that how your mother talks?"

• 6:50Speaker 00

  I never, my children, I'm like, "Ma, come on."

• 6:53Michelle Obama?

  It's like, "Come on."

• 6:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, she's ecstatic, and so are we, aren't we, Kim?

• 6:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, my mother's ninety-five, just turned ninety-five. Wow. So, Kim, you're gonna meet Michelle Obama and Craig. I know who you brought, and Craig.

• 7:09Speaker 03

  It's wonderful, wonders never cease.

• 7:11Speaker 00

  Wonders never cease.

• 7:13Michelle Obama?

  Well, if our mom were alive, she'd be flipping over YouTube in here.

• 7:18Speaker 00

  I would love.

• 7:19Michelle Obama?

  She, you know, is so proud to see, too, amazing, smart. Because it wouldn't just be because you were acting and on TV.

• 7:29Speaker 00

  Bless you.

• 7:29Michelle Obama?

  She would be thrilled with the way you present yourself in the world.

• 7:34Speaker 00

  Well, if we had met Mother Mary. Listen, let me tell you something, that would've put me over the top.

• 7:38Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  I would've never served myself at Thanksgiving again. They would've just been like, "That's amazing." Thank you.

• 7:45Michelle Obama?

  Well, it's great to see you two. You look great, first of all. This is like, and Craig is probably fanboying.

• 7:52Speaker 00

  I am, I am, I am.

• 7:53Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, you two, you beautiful.

• 7:55Speaker 00

  Thank you, bless you.

• 7:56Michelle Obama?

  Keeping it together.

• 7:58Speaker 03

  Happy from the inside out is my trick.

• 8:02Speaker 00

  It shows.

• 8:03Speaker 03

  Thank you, happy from the inside. And it's a choice, right?

• 8:05Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 8:06Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 8:07Speaker 00

  Mine is gin and tonics. Does the same thing.

• 8:11Michelle Obama?

  It does. It starts from the inside.

• 8:13Speaker 00

  Yes, I should probably speak to someone about it.

• 8:15Michelle Obama?

  It does. No, no, I think it's, I think it's working. I think it's working. So you guys, you guys, reliving single. I mean, what a great idea. Wow, you know, so, we could live it and relive it.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:32Michelle Obama?

  What made you think to, you know, hop back into the conversation?

• 8:38Speaker 00

  Shall I tell our origin story?

• 8:38Speaker 03

  Tell the origin story.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  Now I'll do what my mother does. Well, actually, you know, it was like this.

• 8:45Speaker 00

  Thirty years. It's been thirty years.

• 8:47Michelle Obama?

  Thirty plus, yeah.

• 8:48Speaker 00

  Thirty-two years since we did the original show, Living Single. It was nineteen ninety-three, I think, when we came out. And all these years, I've been walking around with this face.

• 8:58Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh, yeah.

• 8:59Speaker 00

  And I realized a lot of people were asking me questions. And, you know, many times I wanted to answer them, and I kept answering the same question. And then after a while, people wanted, started talking about reboots and those things. And I was never really for that. So I was doing work with Color Farm Media. That's my company. And we were doing some really great work with Kevin Hart's company, and Charlamagne, and Kevin Hart, Heartbeat. They have a really great audio team. And Eric Eddings, who was there, said, "Hey, would you ever do a rewatch podcast of Living Single?" And I said, "No, hell, no. No, thanks."

• 9:34Michelle Obama?

  So what was the first instinct? Did it feel like that would be too? Would it feel like you were pulling yourself back to a place?

• 9:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:42Michelle Obama?

  Was it annoying, you guys having your faces and having people remember you primarily?

• 9:49Speaker 00

  Not me. She's thinking for herself. So I should, because, well, it was difficult. And it wasn't difficult because I had any issues with it. It's just that I just, I'm a person that likes to look forward. I love new things. And then I thought about the opportunity of being able to talk about the industry, all the things that I've experienced, Eric Alexander, in this world, and sort of showing up as myself as opposed to a proxy for Maxine Shaw, attorney at law, who I love, and we've done work with her, you know, and Maxine Shaw effect, the thing that she's, you know, kind of set off with, you know, lawyers who felt inspired by her. But I said, "I don't know if they really know who Erika is." Because as well-known as we are,

• 10:34Speaker 00

  especially back in the day, they didn't really interview a lot of black actors about their lives. So I said, "Well, this is it. Like, take your shot." And then it was just like, "Well, who will you do it with?" And, you know, I happened to be. Invite one of my best friends in life and the perfect partner for this. And that's Kim Coles. Take it from here, Kim.

• 10:55Speaker 03

  I'll say that, you know, we, we, we, we do hear often, where's the reboot? We love that show. There aren't any shows like this on the air. And I think that there's a real, um, you know, it, it's missing. People want to connect with those kinds of upwardly mobile, you know, trying to figure it out, girlfriend relationships, friends with, with guys and figuring out relationships and people are hungry for that. And so when this re-watch show experience, when you called me about that, all along I was like, let's do a reboot because I think we still look good. Let's get it on camera while we can and let's get that chick. So I was in, I was like, let's do it. So yes, we're having fun. We're reviewing every episode from the start. Like we started with episode before zero, before zero.

• 11:40Speaker 03

  The origin of, of how the show got started.

• 11:42Speaker 00

  And as inspired by you, Michelle Obama. Because we said, you know what, we, we were in a state of becoming. So they need to know not just about these shows. They need to show, we need to show how we became who we are. That, yeah. That's, yeah. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. In my opinion.

• 12:02Michelle Obama?

  I, I want to give people a sense because we have a crop of new listeners who, before we get, get into the, in, uh, uh, living single concept, for people to know what that was. Like what was the plot? Why did it have so much? But before we do that, I do want to hear more about you all.

• 12:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, thank you.

• 12:23Michelle Obama?

  As, as people, um, and your friendship. It's like, how did you all manage to, how, how did you two become the two? And, you know, it, did it continue from the show? Did you all find each other, reconnect with each other? Did, was there ever a time where you were like, that, mm, I don't even know?

• 12:42Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 12:43Michelle Obama?

  You had all stages.

• 12:45Speaker 03

  Oh, five minutes ago. But that's part of friendship, right? And, and growing and, uh, reassessing and, and, and rejiggering how things become. I, I always say, uh, I admit that immediately when I met. Erika, so we met at Living Single. I always say for the record, I like to get it on the record, that I knew immediately that this show was going to be a hit. I felt like it would be a hit because the six of us had incredible chemistry. The fun that you feel and see really was very real. And so, table read, which you know is the first time you sit down as a cast and you read the first script. I immediately just was drawn to Erika's way and she's, you know, Erika. She's just all your Ericanisms, Ericaisms.

• 13:30Speaker 03

  And I was immediately like, oh, in love with, with who I thought that you were, would be. Cause you were funny and you were bold. And I immediately was like, yes, that's gonna be my friend.

• 13:40Speaker 00

  Well, Kim is the glue. She has a gift that she can, in any room, make people feel immediately at ease.

• 13:48Michelle Obama?

  I can feel that here.

• 13:49Speaker 00

  Oh, absolutely.

• 13:50Michelle Obama?

  For both of you all, but yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 00

  Thank you. No, she would really make a clown of herself. You fall apart so people laugh.

• 13:57Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 13:57Speaker 00

  And then that invites everybody to talk to each other and that type of thing. And it is a gift. I mean, it's, it's, yeah. So she did that for us because, you know, I was coming into the space. Now, truth is, the show was developed for her and Queen Latifah. So they're coming in with a different type of agency and authority than somebody like me or TC when we're like hired guns and we get, we have to audition. You know, we're sort of, you know, still proving ourselves. They don't have to. And so I was the fourth lead. And I was also the character that Yvette Lee Bowser, let's lift her name up. She was the creator of the show, had created to represent her. She was wanting to be a lawyer. She wanted to do all of that. She went to Stanford, ended up becoming a writer.

• 14:43Speaker 00

  And she had in her eye, in her thing, this, you know, really gung ho a woman who was a world beater and that type of, but she was so strong that the network didn't like it. And they put, they said, you have to get rid of it. And she said, no, I can't, you'll get rid of me. And so she put that character across the street.

• 15:01Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  So I was even separated.

• 15:03Michelle Obama?

  You couldn't live in the house.

• 15:04Speaker 00

  Couldn't live in the big house.

• 15:05Speaker 03

  She got it, she got it.

• 15:07Michelle Obama?

  Two sisters, like we're put across the street. That's right, and I kept, I keep forgetting that Maxine lived across the street.

• 15:13Speaker 00

  She lived across the street.

• 15:14Craig Robinson?

  It felt like you all, you were all together.

• 15:16Michelle Obama?

  Well, she was always there. Notorious for always.

• 15:21Craig Robinson?

  It's, it, it, that just reminds me of the, the, it's just amazing what a powerful character that was. And I want to, I want to get to that team aspect of it that you're talking about.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  Can I say something about that and about the friendship? So even though you were put across the street and even though the show was created around the two of us, what I'm speaking to, what I really want to call to, you asked about the friendship.

• 15:43Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 15:44Speaker 03

  Is that there was no hierarchy amongst us. So it's not like we walked in going, hello, we have arrived, and you, and you, and you, and you, good luck to all of you. I think this camaraderie, and I've always said that I came from a show that was highly competitive, so I came from In Living Color.

• 16:00Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 16:00Speaker 03

  And sketch comedy shows are notorious for being competitive environments, and that's what makes them work. And here I was in an environment that was collaborative and cooperative, and that happened very quickly. And we learned each other's strengths, and we learned each other's, you know, I won't even say weaknesses, just like if I throw the ball to her, she's going to catch it, do something different, and throw it that way, like, okay, so we learned that quickly, and I think that helped shape the friendship, that helped shape how we fell in love with each other, and how we've worked together so, so beautifully.

• 16:34Michelle Obama?

  So did that, your friendship continue past the show? Was it, are you guys always been each other's people?

• 16:42Speaker 00

  It's tough, okay.

• 16:43Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, let's hear about that.

• 16:45Speaker 00

  Well, look, you know, you make these family and really hard friendships because you're like in a crucible.

• 16:51Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 16:52Speaker 00

  And you're in a brutal schedule, and everybody's feeling the love and all of that, and you know this, I mean, you go away and you go, we're all going to keep in touch. And then we go along our ways, and that's kind of it. We did that to some extent because that's the life that you choose, that's the life of an artist, you have to keep making a living, everybody's always all over the place, all over, all the time.

• 17:11Craig Robinson?

  Hmm.

• 17:12Speaker 00

  But we did our best to keep in touch because we were just very naturally a fit on set. And our mothers are both educators.

• 17:19Speaker 03

  Our fathers are both.

• 17:20Speaker 00

  Our fathers are both pastors, preachers, you know, Church of God in Christ, Lutheran, yours, what, Methodist?

• 17:24Speaker 03

  Became Episcopal priest at age sixty something.

• 17:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, really wild. And we got along, maybe partly because we argued on set and made up and did some reparative work. So we were kind of more like sisters. In that, I just have to say that we did our best to stay in touch and there was always love. But the truth is, the unspoken thing about this business is that it does break up and make up families all the time.

• 17:49Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 17:50Speaker 00

  And whatever your best intentions are, you just don't have time. And I've heard you speak about that even with the show and why you got together to do it so you could spend time with your brothers. I can't do that with my family. Can you imagine the craziness that would happen?

• 18:06Speaker 00

  But I think it's smart.

• 18:07Michelle Obama?

  You guys break the stereotype. There's also this view that women in the business, black women in the business, don't get along.

• 18:14Speaker 03

  I have not found that.

• 18:16Speaker 00

  Crazy, really?

• 18:17Speaker 03

  I have found that, so I want to add a little, if I may, I love telling the world that she was made of honor at one of my weddings.

• 18:25Michelle Obama?

  I love that.

• 18:29Speaker 03

  You were made of honor, I was made of honor at your wedding.

• 18:32Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 18:32Speaker 03

  And neither one of us are married to either of those men.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  A little joke so the love will remain.

• 18:40Speaker 00

  That's true.

• 18:40Speaker 03

  But I will say that, you know, there's this stereotype or this rule that women don't get along. And of course, there's competition in theory. There's, you know, only one role for that, that particular character. But every, right? But every audition I've ever been on, and you know, we don't go on auditions in person as much as we did before COVID. I always felt an energy in the room of like, oh, look who's here, oh, look, it was the time that you could see people and run. And I would always go see you all at the table, Reed, even though only one of us will make it there. And there's a respect that you have for others that I don't, it's either my job or it's yours. May the best woman win, may the best man win.

• 19:19Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, but Kim, that's, that's a level of self-awareness and self-security that a lot of people, not just actors, but all of us. All of us listening don't have. Where does that come from? Does that come from parenting?

• 19:34Speaker 03

  Parents, good parents.

• 19:36Michelle Obama?

  Tell us about.

• 19:36Craig Robinson?

  Tell us about them.

• 19:37Speaker 03

  That's the truth. My dad was, I would call him the king of positive expectations. He walked into a room expecting that he was gonna get great. A black man, educated.

• 19:48Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 19:49Speaker 03

  Chosen to educate himself.

• 19:51Craig Robinson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:51Speaker 03

  Walked into a room expecting that good things were gonna happen. He was charming, he was wise, he was, you know, beloved. And just, but not, not in an entitlement, just like, I'm gonna be here and we're gonna have a good time and I'm gonna, hello, how are you today? That, that, you know, handshake.

• 20:07Michelle Obama?

  That's what you have.

• 20:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:07Michelle Obama?

  He's a natural optimist.

• 20:09Speaker 03

  Yes. And my mother also has that same energy of expecting and, and seeing the good in everyone. I see you, I love you. That's what woo woo woo is. Woo woo woo Sinclair's catchphrase. Comes from Bernie's calls. It means I see you, I love you, I acknowledge you, I'm here for you.

• 20:24Michelle Obama?

  Is your mom, she was woo woo woo?

• 20:25Speaker 03

  She's, she's the woo woo woo.

• 20:27Michelle Obama?

  Is she woo woo woo at 95?

• 20:28Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 20:29Michelle Obama?

  I love that.

• 20:30Speaker 03

  It's gonna be alright.

• 20:31Michelle Obama?

  Oh, I love that.

• 20:32Speaker 03

  Yes. So there's that.

• 20:34Craig Robinson?

  You say my mother talks weird.

• 20:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, our mothers are very similar though.

• 20:37Craig Robinson?

  She does talk like that.

• 20:38Speaker 03

  And your mother has woo woo wooed my mother.

• 20:40Michelle Obama?

  Your mothers know one another?

• 20:41Speaker 03

  They do.

• 20:42Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 20:42Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 20:43Speaker 03

  They do. It's just, you know, my mother calls her my precious, my, how's my precious Erica? And Sammy, and how is Sammy? So anyway, so that's where that comes from. It's a choi, it's a choice. I can go in there on the audition like, good luck sucker.

• 20:57Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 20:58Speaker 03

  Or go, make the best woman.

• 21:00Michelle Obama?

  Right, right.

• 21:01Craig Robinson?

  It's a choice.

• 21:02Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 21:09Craig Robinson?

  This segment is brought to you by Cologuard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. Mish, what's one simple way that you put your health first in your everyday life?

• 21:21Michelle Obama?

  One simple way? There are many ways.

• 21:23Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, I guess you're right.

• 21:24Michelle Obama?

  One thing that I do is I prioritize my health.

• 21:27Craig Robinson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:28Michelle Obama?

  So the first thing that I do in, on any day is I get my workout in.

• 21:33Craig Robinson?

  Hmm, what does that entail?

• 21:35Michelle Obama?

  Some days it's tennis. What about you?

• 21:38Craig Robinson?

  So mine, thanks to you now, my sister sent me some wonderful yoga mats and, uh,

• 21:47Michelle Obama?

  Bolsters.

• 21:48Craig Robinson?

  Bolsters that I can do some everyday, I stretch every day before I get my day going. And then I try to make sure that I get a walk two to four miles every day.

• 21:59Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, flexibility, I've been hammering with you with that as we get older, we gotta keep our ligaments very pliable. So I'm so glad you're doing yoga. I do yoga twice a week, yin yoga, which is a long, deep stretch. So I prioritize that. But I prioritize sleep.

• 22:19Craig Robinson?

  Ooh.

• 22:20Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I am an early to bed, early to rise person and probably you as well.

• 22:25Craig Robinson?

  I am too. And, and as I've gotten older, I've realized that when I get a good night's sleep, I have a wonderful next day. So I'm usually in bed by 10:30, maybe 11.

• 22:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. And then for me, it's diet. You know, we eat pretty healthy. You know, we're not too avid about it, but whenever we're at home, our, our meals are clean, simple, a meat, veggie for me, throw in a carb for Barack. But diet is, is everything, especially as, as I've found that I've gotten older, you know, making sure that it's just clean.

• 23:05Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah. And then of course, you know, I'm coaching two basketball teams. So that gives me some exercise at least four times a week. So I'm really excited about that. And another great way to put your health first is to prioritize getting screened for colon cancer. The American Cancer Society recommends you begin screening at 45. And that's why we're proud to partner with Cologuard. It's an easy to use, prescription based colon cancer screening test that's delivered right to your door. So you can collect a sample comfortably at home, all on your own schedule.

• 23:46Craig Robinson?

  There's no prep, no invasive procedure, and no more reasons to put off your screening. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with the Cologuard test. You can also request a Cologuard prescription today at cologuard.com/podcast.

• 24:16Michelle Obama?

  And Erica, your background, a little different.

• 24:18Speaker 00

  A little different, yes. I was born in Arizona.

• 24:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 24:21Speaker 00

  Off Highway 66.

• 24:23Michelle Obama?

  And were there seven black people there?

• 24:24Speaker 00

  There were seven black people there.

• 24:26Michelle Obama?

  And five more in your family.

• 24:28Speaker 00

  And five more, yeah, that's true. And I lived, I spent the first, uh, my, my father was a preacher, Church of God in Christ. He later changed to Lutheran. My mother was the ministry of music. They were like a tag team. They'd go around. Church of God in Christ, you know how that is. It's like pass the plate. He has, he's itinerant. He has no home, uh, no home church. So he has to go and do revivals. And so I spent the first 11 years of my life in a hotel called Starlight off of Route 66. And I'm one of six.

• 24:57Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 24:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, so there we were doing our thing. And, um, that's where everything comes from. That's my whole point of view in life, that we depended on the kindness of strangers. And so my family, out of survival, and my mother taught us that if we spoke well and that we had good manners, that people would take care of us. So that's how I came up. He, eventually, my father, was recruited by the Lutheran Church. They sent him to the Lutheran Theological Seminary in Philadelphia. I was going to a summer program at Freedom Theater. Freedom Theater was like a place where it was like the new Motown. They were looking to, to bring up these city kids and give them a theater background.

• 25:38Speaker 00

  And you'd appreciate this, because we were basically coached our mind into like being, telling us that we were young, gifted and black. And we did not have the right not to be good and to, you know, and to be the best. And you haven't earned your tiredness. I mean, they, they worked us out. And we also got a little performing arts set along the side.

• 25:58Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 25:59Speaker 00

  And then the movie came to town and they needed black girls to audition. And so they-

• 26:03Michelle Obama?

  How old were you?

• 26:04Speaker 00

  I was 14. I was 14. And my mother always said, you take an opportunity where you can. And so that was an opportunity. And boom, shakalaka, I go in, I'm second in line. And, um, after many auditions and several screen tests- The dust cleared and it was me. Wow. It was me.

• 26:21Michelle Obama?

  To have parents who, you know, have sort of the vision and the courage, right, to allow their kids to be creatives, right? Because if your parents were making sure you weren't ashy and could speak good English, right, just to survive, which there's so much that is said in that truth, right? Because as black kids, as kids who are other, you would be in danger if you couldn't carry yourself well.

• 26:48Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 26:49Michelle Obama?

  You know, and that's not because you live in a motel.

• 26:53Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 26:53Michelle Obama?

  But education and the way you present is an armor because they're assuming the worst of us.

• 26:59Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 27:00Michelle Obama?

  Usually, like, if you, if you, if you don't speak right, then you probably stole that, you know?

• 27:05Speaker 00

  Hmm. I was harassed in my whole other day.

• 27:08Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  I was getting, I won't say the name of it, yeah, I was getting my makeup done. They said, are you here? You, you know, and I said, why would I be in a, in a room? And my partner, Ben Arnon.

• 27:20Michelle Obama?

  What, they questioned whether the hotel room was yours?

• 27:22Speaker 00

  No, it wasn't the hotel, it was the space that we were using. I asked permission last night to get in that space. And the next thing you know, two, one person comes and I said, I did get permission. And then the person comes, I said, I asked you for permission. Well, are you, you know, do you have a room here? And I said, why would I be here if I wasn't? And then when I went back, you know, Ben, my partner, said, you know, why didn't you tell them you were going to see Michelle Obama? I said, because I, because how dare they?

• 27:47Michelle Obama?

  You shouldn't have to.

• 27:48Speaker 00

  I said, they should treat everybody with decency and I wouldn't give them the satisfaction. And he said, but they would have, and I said, no, it's not about that. I, I did everything right. But the point is, that happens all the time. And you have to just pick yourself up and say, I do belong here.

• 28:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 28:06Speaker 00

  And I have the right to be here and explain yourself. There's so many ways to jack up your, you know, your adrenaline and all of that. And I have to say that being educated and calm.

• 28:18Speaker 00

  I'm doing my best to not, you know, be provoked.

• 28:22Michelle Obama?

  That's a defense.

• 28:23Speaker 00

  It is.

• 28:23Michelle Obama?

  And it's a skill.

• 28:24Speaker 00

  It is.

• 28:26Michelle Obama?

  That you have armor. So your parents, a lot of those parents would say, and, and you need to be a lawyer or a doctor or this or that, because you also need that armor as you grow. But your, both of your parents said, hey, try this acting thing.

• 28:42Speaker 00

  You know.

• 28:44Speaker 03

  Reverend Dr. Clifford Coles.

• 28:47Speaker 00

  Not really.

• 28:48Speaker 03

  Reverend Dr. Clifford Coles, Reverend Dr. Daddy. Until he left this, this earth, was still expecting me to matriculate at some point.

• 28:56Speaker 00

  Me too.

• 28:57Speaker 03

  So I was going to speak, speak at a college and he would go, Kimberly, this would be a wonderful, they would give you an opportunity to come back and, like, yes, so we, my, you know, my situation is that I was the first generation that didn't finish college. My grandmother went back to get her masters in the 50s, in her 50s. So my mother almost has her masters. My dad has his doctorate and all the things. So, you know, they were like, this, this entertainment business is really cute. We're going to support you. Oh, you're so funny on TV. We love telling our neighbors, however, when are we going back to school? So always, I go, Dad, it's the school of life. You're so proud. And, and never made me feel as if I was not still loved and appreciated and you're doing a great job, but we're going to, we're going to go back and get that degree.

• 29:41Speaker 00

  My dad kept trying to send me from computer classes from DeVry. I just saw that commercial.

• 29:45Speaker 03

  That commercial.

• 29:46Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  Do you wish you had some of those skills now?

• 29:49Speaker 00

  Are you kidding? I wish, are you kidding? I did not end up going to, I got into NYU and I dropped out, you know, legitimately to go to the Royal Shakespeare Company tour. And my mother said, you know what? If you travel around the world, that's its own education, go and do that. And I asked her permission because I knew it would matter to her. But I have to say, just recently, not too long ago, Bennett College, the smallest HBCU in North Carolina, gave me a doctorate. And my mother was there and she cried and I cried like a baby. Because I knew that she was proud of me. You know how that is? And I'm walking there and I didn't know how much it meant to me to not only satisfy her expectations for me, but what it meant was like, oh, I belong here. Excuse me.

• 30:32Speaker 00

  And I'll always be grateful. Thank you. I'll always be grateful. Bless you.

• 30:37Craig Robinson?

  So when, so when did you both know?

• 30:42Craig Robinson?

  I wanna be an actor. That's what I wanna figure out.

• 30:46Speaker 00

  I was in my 40s. I got hypnotized. Really? I'm not even lying to you. I got hypnotized. I remember. I was in Venice. And I went to some hypnotist. I said, let me go. And you know, I'm trying out new things. I'm always interested. And they put me under and I thought this, or the woman did, and I thought, this is not working. I'm totally not under. But I told her, you know, something that was in my mind about going in a basement. And there was water. And then I went to a closet and all this other stuff. And then I came out of it and I was sitting there. And she said something about being an actress. And I go, yeah, okay. She said, well, haven't you been doing it for a long time? And I said, yeah, I guess so. She said, well, you're an actress.

• 31:28Speaker 00

  And I have to say, I hadn't heard it like that. I got out of there. Well, what did you think you were doing all these years? I don't know. I think Kim will tell you. I was always writing my comeback piece.

• 31:40Speaker 03

  Yes, she was saying, I'm going to my trailer.

• 31:41Speaker 00

  To write my comeback piece.

• 31:43Speaker 03

  Like, what do you think you're gonna come back from?

• 31:45Speaker 00

  But I got in my car and I sobbed like a baby. Because I realized I had not accepted my fate.

• 31:52Craig Robinson?

  Wow.

• 31:53Speaker 00

  And it needed her. And whatever happened in this hypnotism had unlocked this door. And I cried for 20 minutes straight. Where I said, you are an actress. Was it tears of joy? Were you happy about it? No. It was tears of recognition and worthy. Yeah. You just maybe suppressed. And I couldn't believe. Yeah. That you were you. Yeah. And maybe my own expectations were not to be an actress. Yeah. To be a scientist or something much more legitimate. Yeah. And yet, this is my life. Yes. And I have to say, stop running from it. Accept it. You're here and you're doing well. I mean, it's not easy, but I was made for it.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  I just thought, here's the thing. You ever see people and they come in and they can play and they can do their thing?

• 32:44Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  And they have an innate thing for it.

• 32:45Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 32:46Speaker 00

  And then they're either nurtured or they take it on or they don't.

• 32:48Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 32:48Speaker 00

  So I had an innate thing for it. But I didn't think that it was my thing. I just thought, oh, I can do that. I realize now that fate serves you up to destiny. And you have to accept that. But I had not accepted it and I needed to. And so I'm grateful. So that's when I found out when I was 47 years old.

• 33:08Michelle Obama?

  And I am grateful that you have because like this is the thing we do. Like there are these certain roles and positions. There's a certain way to live life. Like, you know, you can have these positions and that means you're important. You're worthy.

• 33:27Michelle Obama?

  But you both have impacted so many people's lives. There is a ministry and a deep power that has resonated through decades from the work that you've done. And to not like feel the pride and the importance of that. I'm like, I want that for you because you've done that for so many people. I mean, you're sitting here, both of you, and I feel like I know you. I've known you, right? I mean, little old me. I mean, you know.

• 34:06Speaker 00

  Can I fall out?

• 34:08Michelle Obama?

  Yes. But watching through the work that you do, the acting thing that you've done, the shows you've created, the roles you've put out there, you've changed lives.

• 34:23Michelle Obama?

  You know?

• 34:23Craig Robinson?

  Erika needed a little bit of mom because my mom would have said to you that all of the kids in our neighborhood could have done all of the stuff that we did.

• 34:38Michelle Obama?

  We were all talented and gifted.

• 34:40Craig Robinson?

  We were all talented. She would have told you, you would have, she wouldn't have hypnotized you. But she would have told you how talented you are, not just as an actor and actress. But as a person. And it comes out of you in, in your generosity of your talent. And that's what I can see, looking back at, at, at living single and then what you've done since. And then what you're doing now, sort of for the, for the industry and for young folks. And you just need, my mom would have.

• 35:19Michelle Obama?

  Your mother did just tell me that.

• 35:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, she just did.

• 35:23Craig Robinson?

  All four of us will be here.

• 35:26Michelle Obama?

  Is that what was happening in your household? Thank you. Well, it's the, it's the good enough piece of it, right? I mean, we touched on it, but the, shoot, the hotel incident this morning, right? Is the constant reminder to us as people of color, as women, you know, it's the thing your parents taught us that we, we have to prove that we're good enough. You were in Ivy League schools and you talk about proving yourself. I had to prove to people that, you know, my husband and I are still proving that we were legitimate people to run the country, you know, that we were good enough to be the president and the first lady.

• 36:07Michelle Obama?

  I mean, that, that psychological thing, that's not, that's not in our heads. It's, it's happened and it continues to happen. For sure. How did you ground into that? How did you, you know? Well, like you, you guys said, it's like you're sort of in the school of believing in yourself. You know, it's like we, our communities, our families, the people who know better, right? They indoctrinate us into this, you are black and proud, you are good enough. And then it's almost, you have to replace all those other daily messages, daily slights, daily microaggressions with these positive messages.

• 36:48Michelle Obama?

  And somewhere in there is your raw talent, is the rawness of who you in that motel, running around, speaking proper English, the, the Erika and the Kims, the essence of you is always there.

• 37:06Michelle Obama?

  Like, and you know that when you're a kid.

• 37:08Craig Robinson?

  And we were fortunate to have parents who poured into us that we could do whatever we wanted to do. And it's still hard. You're still out, but it's funny, there's this level of, and people use the term imposter syndrome, and I don't think it's imposter syndrome. That's not what I'm feeling. It's more of a, you just gotta prove myself.

• 37:35Michelle Obama?

  Always, every day.

• 37:36Craig Robinson?

  You never know.

• 37:37Michelle Obama?

  Year after year.

• 37:38Craig Robinson?

  And my mom would be like, you shouldn't be worried about what people think.

• 37:42Michelle Obama?

  Right.

• 37:43Craig Robinson?

  But you worry about what people think.

• 37:45Speaker 00

  I'm glad you said it's not imposter syndrome, because I always felt like, I don't feel like an imposter, but I just don't know if people have shaped what that is.

• 37:53Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah, we may have to do another show.

• 37:57Speaker 00

  You've got to.

• 37:59Speaker 03

  There's a lot of people talking about that now. I've always said that real imposters don't have that syndrome.

• 38:04Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 38:05Speaker 03

  We all know a whole lot of imposters who don't have any doubt whatsoever, that they got it going on. It's like, it's not the imposters who have that problem.

• 38:14Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 38:14Speaker 03

  And so why should we doubt, or why should we, you know, because life does what life does. It's just a little reminder, maybe you don't really belong here, maybe you're not good enough.

• 38:23Michelle Obama?

  Well, we also don't give ourselves permission to have joy, you know? I mean, you start with my mom. Now, she had it rough, right?

• 38:32Craig Robinson?

  Come on.

• 38:32Michelle Obama?

  You know, because that's also where we are, you know? As hard as we may have it.

• 38:37Craig Robinson?

  Come on.

• 38:37Michelle Obama?

  You know, as black folks, you know, we have it better. And the generations have always improved, even though we still have a long way to go. But it makes it difficult to enjoy it, right? You feel like, have we earned the claim?

• 38:56Speaker 03

  Is it now enough?

• 38:57Michelle Obama?

  Is it now enough? Is it enough? My gosh. And this is part of what I've been trying to unravel. When is it enough? When can I sort of rest a little bit, you know, not just as me, but as a 60-year-old woman? When can I finally look and go, I have done a lot? And I've done enough. I mean, that doesn't mean I'm stopping, but I have really done enough. And when, if not now, am I gonna be able to look on my accomplishments and say, "Good job."

• 39:30Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:31Michelle Obama?

  And maybe those are the tears. The tears are like, "Erika, good friggin' job."

• 39:37Speaker 00

  Good job, good job.

• 39:37Michelle Obama?

  Good job. And you didn't need the PhD to do it, but there's no ceremony for that. Like, there's no walking across the aisle of, "Congratulations, you are a wonderful human being."

• 39:50Speaker 00

  Right.

• 39:50Michelle Obama?

  A woman in the world who's done something powerful. Thank you.

• 39:54Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 39:55Michelle Obama?

  Um, and I, I think that brings tears. The tears of relief that maybe I'm, maybe, maybe it's enough.

• 40:03Speaker 00

  It's enough. And the pride of it, too, because we're always told, "Be humble."

• 40:07Michelle Obama?

  The pride of it, be humble. That's what I hear in you, the humility.

• 40:10Speaker 00

  I'll be humble to the ground, you know?

• 40:11Michelle Obama?

  That's right, yeah.

• 40:12Speaker 00

  And yet, we come from also of, of people from Muhammad Ali on that had to say who they were and tell the, the world that they were great. You know, the rappers, they come out with, you know, "You, Coach, you gotta, your mindset is everything. You gotta be the first one." Confidence, confidence. Yes, black women, and, and often, we're not told that.

• 40:32Michelle Obama?

  Oh, and when we do it, then we, we're being uppity.

• 40:36Speaker 00

  And who should think she is?

• 40:37Michelle Obama?

  We're being bossy. We're being a problem.

• 40:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:40Michelle Obama?

  We're being, we're complicated.

• 40:42Speaker 00

  Yes, yes. Difficult. I've been told that several times, and I always, it hurts my heart. I'm like, "Really?" I said, "Well, after a while," I was like, "Well, I guess I am."

• 40:51Speaker 03

  Right. Is it difficult, or is it commanding respect? Is it difficult, or is it, um, having boundaries, or I like to call them peaceful perimeters?

• 41:02Speaker 00

  Peaceful perimeter?

• 41:03Speaker 03

  A peaceful perimeter, because boundary sounds like war.

• 41:05Speaker 00

  Sounds like a new underwear.

• 41:07Speaker 03

  I'm keeping everything out. Peaceful perimeter says, "This is what I will allow in, and that you may, you're not welcome here. Off you go."

• 41:13Speaker 00

  That's your girdle.

• 41:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:15Speaker 00

  Your girdle is a peaceful perimeter.

• 41:17Speaker 03

  Sometimes it is not peaceful at all. It is not peaceful at all, too. It is evil.

• 41:31Craig Robinson?

  You all know how much I love staying in Airbnbs. I just got to DC and I found yet another one. It's right smack dab in the middle of Georgetown. And the best feature about this place is the rooftop patio. I mean, you get fantastic views of Georgetown. And what else I like about this location? It is walkable to a bunch of places. I ate dinner in Georgetown, was able to walk home. I can walk and get coffee first thing in the morning. And it's really close to where we're recording. And like most Airbnbs, it has all of the comforts of home. Kitchen, laundry, and especially during these hot days, it's got air conditioning.

• 42:15Craig Robinson?

  Don't tell anybody, but I've made use of the hot tub. Airbnb makes it super easy to find what I'm looking for. So next time you're booking a trip, be like me and book an Airbnb. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, who help people move forward and live fully. Owning a home can be one of the most powerful ways to build financial security. But for many, especially first generation buyers, it can feel out of reach. That's why I appreciate what Progressive is doing. In 2024, they contributed over $7 million to help individuals and families break the cycle of renting

• 42:57Craig Robinson?

  by providing support, offering educational resources, and developing tools to build long-term financial stability through homeownership. Their work goes beyond just insurance. They're opening doors. Through their newly created Up Payment Program, Progressive is helping first-generation homebuyers move closer to the dream of homeownership by offering eligible applicants a chance to receive a Down Payment Assistance Grant. You know, owning a home for me made me feel grounded and also set me up for the future. And as a coach, when your life is dependent on wins and losses, it's really important to have the comfort

• 43:39Craig Robinson?

  of a really nice home to come home to, especially for your family.

• 43:46Craig Robinson?

  Home ownership is one of the biggest investments you'll ever make, and Progressive wants to help more people take that life-changing step. Learn more today at progressive.com/openthehouse. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Cologuard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. Currently, the American Cancer Society recommends that if you are at average risk, you should begin screening for colon cancer at age 45. There are an estimated 60 million adults aged 45-plus in America who are not up to date with their colon cancer screening. So, we need to change that by spreading the word about another option. The Cologuard test can help you put your health first

• 44:31Craig Robinson?

  and feel more in control of your colon cancer screening process. This easy-to-use screening test is delivered right to your door and allows you to collect a sample comfortably at home, on your own schedule. The sample is shipped back to the lab for testing, and results are available within eight to 10 days. It's simple, but the best part about the Cologuard test is that it allows you to start screening for colon cancer without all the hassle of preparing for a colonoscopy. So, you don't have to prep the day before. And by prep, you know I mean fasting and drinking all that liquid. You get to skip the stress of having to request off-work,

• 45:15Craig Robinson?

  go under anesthesia, get a ride home, and all the other hassles that come with an invasive procedure. And in addition to its convenience, Cologuard is also affordable. Most insured patients find they pay nothing out of pocket. With zero downtime, no special preparation, and a screening test that's delivered right to your door, let's start prioritizing our health. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with the Cologuard test.

• 45:52Craig Robinson?

  You can also request a Cologuard prescription today at Cologuard.com/podcast. The Cologuard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use a Cologuard test if you have had adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease, and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Cologuard test is not a replacement for a colonoscopy in high-risk patients. Cologuard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur.

• 46:37Craig Robinson?

  Cologuard is available by prescription only.

• 46:46Craig Robinson?

  Erika, we were not ready for your answer. That was appreciated. So, but I want to hear from Kim.

• 46:55Speaker 03

  What now?

• 46:56Craig Robinson?

  I want to hear, when did you feel like you were gonna be an entertainer? Because, you know, stand-up comedy, I, it's hard.

• 47:08Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, but like, what makes you say, I'm gonna get on stage and I'm gonna be funny to all y'all?

• 47:13Craig Robinson?

  Because I know I'm funny to all of y'all.

• 47:15Speaker 03

  I think I'm funny when I think we're funny, but it's a form, a format.

• 47:18Craig Robinson?

  We all think we're funny, but we don't all think we could stand up in front of people and be funny.

• 47:25Speaker 03

  Right. Really, it started for me in high school.

• 47:28Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 47:28Speaker 03

  I didn't know what I was building, but I was building. So I was the chubby girl. And going into high school, I was, you know, 14, I was like, the fat girl in high school doesn't always fare so well. You get teased and you, you know, you're weird, you know, chubby, whatever that is. And so I thought, I know what I'll do. If I make them laugh with me instead of at me, then nobody will ever call me fat because I've already told the jokes, I've already made them laugh, and I've already deflected, now I call it a peaceful, I've already said, don't look at this, look at this. And comedy is actually a connector.

• 48:03Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 48:04Speaker 03

  And I know that now from standing on stage and watching an audience, there's nothing more thrilling for me, and I don't do stand-up as much as I used to. I've now morphed into being a speaker, and I still use some of those same bits as a speaker. There's a connection that happens. The audience is connecting to you because they're laughing or listening, and often, audience members turn to each other and laugh, and there's a way of connection. And so, I was avoiding being called the chubby girl, but what I was really doing was creating a connection. So, years later, when I dropped in and out of college about three times, 1985 was the first time I stepped on a stage and tried this thing, I would write my little jokes and perform, because I felt that connection.

• 48:46Michelle Obama?

  You guys picked a hard industry.

• 48:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:49Michelle Obama?

  You know, and I want to talk a little bit about that, because you showed your Shakespearean abilities. You showed the ability to work in a team, in an ensemble. You showed the comedy. You showed the drama. You showed the... And you lasted. Tell us, and then what? And then what? Tell us about the industry.

• 49:13Speaker 00

  Segregation of television.

• 49:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 49:15Speaker 00

  Officially. We were number one, you were about to say?

• 49:19Speaker 03

  We were number one in African-American households for all five seasons. You always remind me that we were number one in Latino households. Not to mention, I always tell the story of the little Jewish man in the bank who grabbed my arm, like, "I love you, girls. You girls are so beautiful. I love you, girls. I love the Queen. Give the Queen my best. I love you, girls." And so, lots of people loved us, although we were relegated and segregated.

• 49:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, and yet, something happened that I think was intentional or not. It happened. Everything changed, and they started to create different cable networks that had to build their audience. We were already on one, which was the Fox channel, and we helped build that network, literally. Tisha Campbell, Sheena, all of them, Martin.

• 50:06Speaker 03

  And Living Color.

• 50:07Speaker 00

  And Living Color, Living Single, all of that.

• 50:10Michelle Obama?

  Wasn't a Jamie Foxx show? Was he on?

• 50:13Speaker 00

  Jamie Foxx was on the CW, so that's what happened. Everything started to shift and place shows with black cast. Now, Kim, you'll say black shows, and I don't say that. I say shows with black cast in those spaces. Not for nothing...

• 50:31Speaker 00

  You could slowly see everything sort of bleed off the page. And there's a problem with that because that means that we're not getting in the mainstream anymore. We're not giving the opportunity of marketing and sponsorship that that can afford. And so you're also, the value goes down. So when I was growing up, when we were all growing up, Jeffersons, What's Happening, all of that was run. You'd see Mash, you'd see the Jeffersons, you'd see blah, blah, blah. No one ever called the Jeffersons a black show. You just called it Jeffersons. They certainly didn't call The Cosby Show a black show. It was a show. Suddenly, we were black shows. And that went away.

• 51:11Speaker 00

  And I think it messed up everything in terms of momentum. Because we had the huge form of momentum, again, with Fresh Prince, Family Matters, all of these things. So what happened was, everything changed. And if you don't have anybody funding these things, then you're in trouble.

• 51:26Michelle Obama?

  But when you say everything changed, usually when their success begins success, especially in Hollywood. Well, what exactly changed? Was it the executives? Was it cultural? Was it political?

• 51:40Craig Robinson?

  Was it too much success?

• 51:42Speaker 00

  There you go. Too much success. It's not the first time that that's happened. That there's too much success and then suddenly, somebody pulls the rug out underneath. So just around 2000, things shifted. And, you know, I remember somebody telling me a memo, but they wanted things lighter and brighter. And that meant the end of us.

• 52:02Michelle Obama?

  Was it the money? I mean, with the more success, were you negotiating as a cast for more? For more?

• 52:09Speaker 00

  No, we didn't even know to do that. And there's no way, we were always in the black. There was no way that we could be too much money for the budget they gave us.

• 52:19Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, right, right.

• 52:21Speaker 00

  We were always operating the black. We were very successful in syndication from the get-go. It was just, it was just-

• 52:27Speaker 03

  I don't understand, because we had a new network president come in and then decided to just change the complexion of the network. And it didn't work. It didn't work. You've now lost the audience. You know, you've lost this audience that you've built up, that's built trust. Like, this is where I come if I want this kind of show. And it just, and, you know, we didn't go away altogether, but it was, the rug was pulled out.

• 52:50Craig Robinson?

  Misha and I talked about, we talked about this a little bit beforehand because right after you all show, Friends comes out.

• 53:00Speaker 00

  The year after us.

• 53:03Craig Robinson?

  It's like, come on.

• 53:05Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:05Craig Robinson?

  This is, it's, and what we talked about is the opportunities for another successful show like that for the folks who ended that one.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  Oh, they went on to do.

• 53:18Michelle Obama?

  Their careers were very different.

• 53:20Craig Robinson?

  And I.

• 53:21Speaker 00

  And their salaries were through the roof.

• 53:24Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah, so I, I think our, it would be nice for our listeners to hear your thoughts on that because I think I know what they are, but it's, it's noticeable for me from the outside looking in, right?

• 53:39Speaker 00

  Noticeable for everyone.

• 53:41Craig Robinson?

  And as good as Friends could have been, I was, I had like a, you know, I felt a certain way, so I didn't watch it because of your show.

• 53:48Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. Craig is true to this. He's true to this. Ain't new to this. Um, thank you.

• 53:56Craig Robinson?

  You're welcome.

• 53:56Speaker 00

  Um, it's true that often, black people in performing arts start things, whether it's from Elvis Presley on, that are imitations of other things. And that's certainly what happened there. It just happened to be that we were at the same, you know, production company. Warner Brothers, right? And so it was quite obvious. It's what happens all the time. The problem is that you could also see the type of investment they were making versus what they were making with us. And that to me is the frustrating thing that is systemic and we fight all over.

• 54:39Speaker 00

  People think because you're in showbiz that you are spoiled and you're getting all of these things. And, and one of the things that we did the podcast for is we wanted people to know us as people, to sort of see us as people who were inside of a corporate structure. And if that corporate structure exists in America. It is probably built on the same, Mm-hmm. you know, flawed foundation that all these structures, I mean, industries are built on. You know, we talk about people not funding a black women. Less than 1% of venture capitalists goes into, capital goes into black women's business. Well, Yvette Lee Bowser, a black woman's business. Hmm. We are black, I mean, we, you have an agent and a manager and you have thing.

• 55:23Speaker 00

  You're a small business, so am I. That's what we're getting in a way. Sure, we're the lucky ones and it looks fortunate, but we have the same. Fight. Yeah, and it's, and it's, it's hard to talk about. When I say it's hard to talk about, because what happens is people end up going, hey, you're lucky and this and this and that. I said, well, I didn't say that we weren't fortunate. I'm saying that the downward pressure of wages is real everywhere. And so if you want to talk about it, you know, outside of being famous, then you can. But just because I'm famous, don't make it less true. And so we do have an issue. It's true.

• 56:00Michelle Obama?

  Well, Hollywood is, it's a subjective business, right?

• 56:08Michelle Obama?

  You know, we now have a production company. We're getting a taste of it. But there are decision makers, right? And people tend to make decisions around whether they think they're expert or not. It's based on their taste.

• 56:24Speaker 00

  Oh, for sure.

• 56:25Michelle Obama?

  And it's, it's hard to convince some of these heads and the, the green lighters to understand that they have an inherent bias to pick things that they like. You know? Which is why you want diversity in these seats of power. Because yes, you're a white guy, you like sports and you like women that look a certain way. Or maybe you think this is funny. That's just one perspective. But I, as a black woman, as a woman who's seen this or that, I can tell you that this is interesting. And there's a whole pool of people that will pay money. You can make money off of these people. But in the end, who's gonna, who makes the decision?

• 57:08Michelle Obama?

  The person in charge, who decides ultimately, am I going to go with your opinion or with mine? And if, when you're in charge, you'd go with your opinion. And I see that happening time and time again at all, you know, in all industries, in all sectors.

• 57:25Speaker 00

  And their opinion is gonna bankrupt the industry. Because you're the future. There's no doubt about it.

• 57:31Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, they don't speak to a whole market. I had that challenge even with my book, writing Becoming. Great publishers, supportive. My book tour was my idea. You know, it wasn't like the publishers said, "You know what? You could go on a 32-city book tour." I was like, "Well, you know, there are a lot of people out there who are interested in the story and the conversation." I said, "I bet we could do something bigger than that." Right? And so we had this huge book tour that nobody had ever done before. Because guess what? I don't know that a lot of people in the industry realized there were that many women and women of color

• 58:14Michelle Obama?

  who had that kind of disposable income.

• 58:17Speaker 00

  There you go.

• 58:17Michelle Obama?

  Where they would.

• 58:18Speaker 00

  There you go.

• 58:18Michelle Obama?

  Many, there were people, I was in Denmark. And there were like, there was a group of sisters from Detroit in the VIP line.

• 58:26Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 58:27Michelle Obama?

  And I, my first thing was like, Danish, Danish, Danish sisters. And my whole thing was like, "What are y'all doing here?" And they were like, "Girl, we wanted to meet you. The tickets in Detroit were sold out."

• 58:39Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 58:40Michelle Obama?

  "We saved up, we bought money, came to..." They came to Denmark.

• 58:45Speaker 00

  Detroit to Denmark.

• 58:46Michelle Obama?

  To be in the VIP, I said, "Well, what else are you doing in Denmark?" They were like, "We don't know." Right. "But we came to see you, and then we'll see some of Denmark." And I was like, "You all go." Right?

• 58:57Speaker 00

  But if that's happening for Michelle Obama, then imagine what's not being invested in.

• 59:02Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, but after that.

• 59:03Speaker 00

  That's nuts.

• 59:04Michelle Obama?

  Then what was the next big book tour? What was the next, the, the, the audience is there. And this is what you try to convince the decision makers. It's like, wow, you don't know me? You don't know my audience? But if you're the decision maker and it's not your data?

• 59:20Speaker 03

  And that means they don't have the vision.

• 59:22Michelle Obama?

  No, it's not their experience. They don't even believe, like, it's the same thing that makes you cry. Because sometimes you just feel like you just don't see me.

• 59:34Speaker 03

  Right.

• 59:34Michelle Obama?

  You, you don't see me no matter what I do.

• 59:38Speaker 03

  Right.

• 59:39Michelle Obama?

  You still don't see me. And it's because, and I'm not, it's not because you don't want to. And you can't say that to folks because they feel like, no, that's not who I am. And it's like, it is not who you are, but it's not who you are in your heart.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  But it's.

• 59:55Michelle Obama?

  But your experiences have made it impossible for you to understand that you really are only seeing the things that you believe in.

• 1:00:03Speaker 03

  So I'm asking you, I'm asking us, what happens to, to get visionaries in those, visionaries or people who will take the risk? Because it's not going to risk, you, you've proven it. You, you know, Wakanda proved it. Uh, homeboy, uh. Sinners. Sinners proved it. Like, we, we prove it over and over and over again. So what does it take to find the visionaries in those places who will say yes? Who will green light something? Who will keep taking that? And it ain't a risk and it ain't a chance.

• 1:00:32Michelle Obama?

  You need diversity.

• 1:00:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:33Michelle Obama?

  You know, the, the, the bad word of the, of the decade. Um, we call it D E I. It's been castigated. It's been demonized, but it's essentially just saying that you just need a lot of different people in rooms, in decision-making rooms, not out of some favor, but as a business strategy.

• 1:00:54Speaker 03

  It's just business.

• 1:00:55Michelle Obama?

  It's just, you, you would rather miss money.

• 1:00:59Speaker 00

  Right. That part. You know. That. Like that.

• 1:01:02Michelle Obama?

  You just said though, yeah.

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  Everybody used to always say, oh, never. They'll always get their money, their money. I said, that's actually not true.

• 1:01:08Michelle Obama?

  Not necessarily true.

• 1:01:09Speaker 00

  If you leave billions of dollars on the table, that can do good for people.

• 1:01:13Michelle Obama?

  Or believing that a movie won't play overseas. Yeah, that's right. Of course it will. We've proven it. The data is there. But that's why diversity matters. It just, we just all have different experiences. That's all. That's all it is. It's just, we have different tastes. And there's money to be made in all of it. But if the tastemakers look a certain way, then the shows tend, that get promoted, that get marketed, that get the opportunity. You know, that's where the money goes.

• 1:01:47Speaker 00

  To me, this is Jurassic Age. It's falling apart. It's meant to. It can't go on. I mean, I love Reverend Barber. I quote him all the time. Your friend Reverend Barber calls this the Third Reconstruction. And so if it is, that means these foundations have to be redone. And we are architects of the Third Reconstruction. They're already palimpsests. There's new investors and new people. There's Cora Jefferson, American Fiction. There's Jordan Peele, who's doing, you know, Get Out. There's Alicia Harris, amazing. I just did a film with her, Is God Is? They are not playing. I needed them to come and find me and say, invite me to play. Not even have me audition, say, I know what she can do. I, I know she can do this role. And, and then, come on, let's do it.

• 1:02:32Michelle Obama?

  Tell us about the lives you've created for yourselves in the midst of rejection and waiting and all of this. Because you both are standing up, back straight, looking good. So you figured something out.

• 1:02:45Speaker 00

  Right? Yes, we are.

• 1:02:47Michelle Obama?

  And they would buy him. A lot of good hair. A lot of good hair.

• 1:02:51Speaker 00

  Once you started it, why don't you keep going?

• 1:02:54Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I, um.

• 1:02:57Speaker 03

  After Living Single ended and I went into a depression. Because there wasn't work, wasn't working, hadn't quite figured out what else I could do. I auditioned here and there, not getting anything. And sometimes you reach a certain level and they go, well, she wouldn't take this job. I might have, or whatever that is. And so going into this space of what else can I do? What else? Because I don't know how to type, I can't cook, I can't sing.

• 1:03:23Speaker 00

  Didn't go to DeVry.

• 1:03:24Speaker 03

  Didn't go to DeVry, didn't take the computer classes. I dropped out of college a hundred times. I don't know that I can make a living doing this. And so I moved over. It's like taking your gifts and talents and skills and going like, where else can they be placed? So if I'm a stand-up comedian, I can be a speaker. And so I immersed myself into what it means to become a speaker on stage, an impactful speaker, deciding what type of speaking I would do, taking some of my comedy bits and working them into inspiration so that I'm inspiring. And then, you know, eventually, learning that I really wanted to help people transform their lives. So not just rah rah, or, which is nothing wrong with that, or being encouraging or engaging,

• 1:04:09Speaker 03

  but to also go like, what can we do to transform our thinking, our mindset, our soul, our soul and the work? So you're an educator. I became, my mother wanted me to be a teacher. I was like, I don't want to be a teacher. And then I became a teacher. So that's what I've been doing. And that's why there's a, hopefully you feel a groundedness. I go like, it's not, I'm sorry that these other things, while I can fight the powers that be, I can also be the power in my own, of my own choosing, right? So that's what I'm doing, what I'm doing for now.

• 1:04:46Speaker 00

  Color Farm Media, that's my company. I started it 10 years ago with my partner Ben Arnon. We met at the 2008 DNC convention night.

• 1:05:02Speaker 00

  He was a delegate for your husband, Mr. Obama. And I was a delegate for Hillary. I was Hillary Clinton's most traveled surrogate.

• 1:05:11Speaker 03

  The other side.

• 1:05:12Speaker 00

  The other side, the other side.

• 1:05:14Speaker 03

  I was wondering if you were going to come out and tell.

• 1:05:16Speaker 00

  That's why we like her.

• 1:05:20Speaker 00

  You know, the funny thing, it made me a better voter all over to understand it, you know, how it happens. And up until that point, I hadn't.

• 1:05:29Michelle Obama?

  What made you get involved in politics?

• 1:05:33Speaker 00

  Poverty.

• 1:05:35Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 1:05:35Speaker 00

  Poverty.

• 1:05:36Michelle Obama?

  Say that.

• 1:05:36Speaker 00

  I'm a little bit loud. Poverty, poverty. You talk about hard times. It's real. Anyway, we started the company. We get a call from John Lewis's office. We heard that you have a production company. Would you like to do a documentary on the congressmen? I said, I'd sweep his floors. I don't care what he needs me to do. And through that avenue came our first opportunity as a company.

• 1:05:59Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 1:06:00Speaker 00

  John Lewis Goodtrouble. And then after that, we did a documentary about reparations. Evanston, Illinois, but Alderwoman, Bob and Ruth Simmons, and Sheila Jackson Lee with HR40 and all these things. And it just kept pushing us in places where I thought, look, this is not only opportunity, but we're telling history. We're getting an opportunity to do that. But I think ultimately, we're starting to realize that this world may not change as fast as we need to, and we need to find a different avenue. And we're seeking other borders.

• 1:06:33Michelle Obama?

  Well, and, you know, I listen to that and I think, well, maybe that's also where the tears are coming from.

• 1:06:41Michelle Obama?

  Because it's like to go from the power that

• 1:06:48Michelle Obama?

  your characters in Living Single had in the world, right? And I remember I heard in an interview that you were like, well, I was Maxine Shaw, but I wasn't a lawyer. I didn't go to law school. You know, but you were, you all were showing so many of us. Because I was a lawyer at the time.

• 1:07:10Speaker 00

  We're very much so.

• 1:07:11Michelle Obama?

  And Living Single was out. I was like a first, second year associate at a corporate law firm, so.

• 1:07:20Michelle Obama?

  We, I was living that.

• 1:07:22Speaker 00

  You were also a dean, too.

• 1:07:23Michelle Obama?

  I was an associate dean at the University of Chicago when that was going on. So there were, you know.

• 1:07:29Speaker 00

  We didn't need to lift your sights, but you know, for others.

• 1:07:33Michelle Obama?

  But making us visible. Yeah, because that character hadn't existed before. We had Phyllis Rishah, but not in a comedy and this kind of, you know. And it was a different strength. It was definitely a different strength. I mean, you were single, you were sexual. You were, you know, you were brash, you were annoying.

• 1:07:53Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:07:54Michelle Obama?

  You were, you know, all of that, right? No.

• 1:07:58Speaker 00

  She was.

• 1:07:59Michelle Obama?

  You know.

• 1:07:59Speaker 00

  Unapologetic.

• 1:08:01Michelle Obama?

  Black women had to be nice or kind or, you know, Maxine was like, unapologetic.

• 1:08:07Speaker 00

  Unsentimental.

• 1:08:08Michelle Obama?

  You know, which was reflective of what a lot of us had to be in order to be in those spaces. And you were changing lives then, and both of you all are still doing that today and have managed to maintain yourselves and your presence and still think creatively and powerfully about how to be impactful in the world.

• 1:08:40Craig Robinson?

  This episode of IMO is brought to you in part by Acorns. You know, one of the most valuable pieces of money advice I've ever gotten is that financial wellness isn't about how much you make, it's about making the most of what you have. That's something I've carried with me from my time on Wall Street to today, and that's why I love Acorns. Acorns is a financial wellness app that makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now, even if all you've got is spare change. You don't need to be an expert. Acorns recommends a diversified portfolio that can help you weather all the market's ups and downs. You just need to stick with it, and Acorns makes that easy.

• 1:09:23Craig Robinson?

  Acorns automatically invests your money, giving it a chance to grow with time. The best advice I've gotten was from my father, and that was to pay yourself first. So sign up now and join over 14 million all-time customers who have already saved and invested $25 billion with Acorns. Plus, Acorns will boost your new account with a $20 bonus investment. Offer only available at acorns.com/imo. That's A-C-O-R-N-S dot com slash I-M-O to get your $20 bonus investment today. From Acorns, mighty oaks do grow. Investing doesn't have to be complicated.

• 1:10:03Craig Robinson?

  Acorns makes it easy to invest for your future, plan for tomorrow, and spend smarter today. Paid non-client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC Registered Investment Advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com/imo. This episode of I M O is brought to you by Indeed. And you know, one skill that has helped me over my years is adaptability. You know, I started out as a college basketball player and was fortunate enough to get drafted. And I went to try out, got cut, had to make a pivot.

• 1:10:48Craig Robinson?

  I went from being at an NBA camp to an overseas camp. And I played over there for a couple of years and then came back to the United States and made another pivot. And I got into the investment business, which was a brand new experience for me. So I had to be adaptable. And I went from there, uh, back to business school and I had to be adaptable yet again and be back into learning mode. And subsequently, after spending 14 years in the investment industry, I came back to basketball as a coach. And it's really important that I, I let myself learn, continue to learn, be adaptable, and be willing to pivot.

• 1:11:31Craig Robinson?

  Being open to change helped me explore roles I hadn't really originally planned for, which made my career richer and more fulfilling.

• 1:11:41Craig Robinson?

  Indeed helps people do the same by identifying their existing skills and connecting them to new opportunities. Through Indeed, people can find better work that fits their skills, even if it means shifting career paths or trying something new. Just like my own adaptability has opened doors for me, Indeed's mission is to empower everyone to leverage their skills for better work. Whether adaptability is a skill you have or not, Indeed can help connect the skills you have to new opportunities. When people feel confident in their skills and open to change, the world truly can work better.

• 1:12:22Craig Robinson?

  My kitchen has never quite felt completely put together, like it's always felt like something is missing. And then Kelly and I found these striped linen cafe curtains on Wayfair, and the effect has been perfect. Once we realized we wanted some curtains, it was just a matter of typing our ideal item into Wayfair's search bar. And of course, they have what we want plus 10 other options. Their inventory truly cannot be beat. I especially like being able to look through customer photos and reviews before I decide. That's what sealed the deal for us with our new curtains, as well as all of the other amazing pieces we have from Wayfair in our house right now. Wayfair has more than 20 million

• 1:13:04Craig Robinson?

  verified five-star reviews, so you can actually see how something looks and works in real people's homes. Find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 1:13:37Craig Robinson?

  Well, speaking of being impactful, I am always all about having our listeners submit a question. And we have a question from a listener that I think would be ideal for the two of you to help us answer. And it comes from Amanda in Tucson, Arizona.

• 1:13:59Michelle Obama?

  She's from AZ.

• 1:14:01Speaker 00

  I'm from AZ.

• 1:14:02Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:14:03Speaker 00

  Home state.

• 1:14:04Speaker 04

  Hi, I'm Amanda. Thank you so much for taking my question. As a woman in my mid 40s, okay, I'm 45, I'm struggling with the concept of time. I want to do so much in this world, but it feels like time is flying by. And unfortunately, you can't just snap your fingers and have all your dreams come true. So how do you handle this nagging feeling that you're running out of time and that your life might not mean as much as you want it to? Similarly, how do you know that you're doing enough, that you're making enough of a difference while you're here? Thank you, I love you both.

• 1:14:33Craig Robinson?

  It's almost as if she was sitting right there.

• 1:14:35Speaker 00

  It's true. We're gonna need a cocktail.

• 1:14:41Michelle Obama?

  Rewind this episode and...

• 1:14:44Speaker 00

  Existential dread. It has throughout your life. You're gonna have it, I believe. And I also believe that as a story in my, as a character in my own story, I keep feeling that I am coming of age all the time.

• 1:14:58Michelle Obama?

  I hear you, waiting to grow up.

• 1:15:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, yeah, this is, this is it. They make story after story after people who come to this thing and realize, wait a minute.

• 1:15:11Speaker 00

  I gotta get it. I can feel that tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. And if I don't, I won't be able, I mean, I won't be, I'll regret too much. And I think that for me, I see that in every, in so many stories, like everything all at once, everything everywhere all at once. You see that in, shoot, Death of, Death of a Salesman. He's sitting up there and wondering, what did I do with my life? So I like to say to Amanda.

• 1:15:41Speaker 00

  You're right where you need to be if you're there. Because that means that if you're thinking that way, that you must be making an impact. People who don't make impact don't think that way. And so I'm hoping that you're looking at the ways that you might have made impact. And I do believe that in a way you are right. Times passing by, you're probably doing better than you think.

• 1:16:01Speaker 03

  Ditto.

• 1:16:06Speaker 03

  So many things that you touched on, same things I would say. First of all, I think it's a noble question. I think there's a nobility and a courage in even asking that. How do I know? I think she said she has a nagging feeling. How do you know that this is enough? And I think also because she's asking that question means that there is more to be experienced. She's willing and allowing something to come through. And I always say that everything you want wants you back.

• 1:16:35Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 1:16:36Speaker 03

  Everything you want wants you back. And because she wants it, it wants her to fulfill, to step into it. And I think a lot of times, the things that we want, we're so busy, like, living life and trying to keep up and looking at other folks, that we don't even stop to notice those things that have already mattered to us, already been meaningful, already been impactful. So instead of looking all out there, to look within. So slow down and look in and get quiet and go like, what do I really want to do? What happens when I show up and do this and this and this? What is the impact on people? And how can I just keep doing more of that? It may not even be something new.

• 1:17:20Speaker 03

  It's something that she's obviously already doing. And be, I always call it the sort of the pebble in the pond. You know, we think it has to be a big impact. It has, the pebble creates all those ripples. So allow yourself to be that pebble in the pond. And the impact sometimes, you know, you talked about fame and being famous, and people think that they want that. But I think what people really want is to be significant and to be meaningful. And sometimes it's your kids that are watching. It's your nieces and nephews that are watching. And the impact that you've created for them is enough to create more of the ripple. And so she may not stand on stages like we all have, but she's created an impact, knowing that I said a word to someone and that made them think differently,

• 1:18:05Speaker 03

  and then they went and changed their life. And just to allow that to... Allow is my word. Just allow it to unfold.

• 1:18:14Craig Robinson?

  You want to add a brief thing in there? Because I'm just summing it up. No, no, no, I'm summing it up. So know that you're enough.

• 1:18:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:23Craig Robinson?

  Right? You know that you're enough. That's, that's one thing. And this one's really good that I'm going to take away is slow down to speed up. Because that, we use that on the court.

• 1:18:33Speaker 03

  Oh, yes.

• 1:18:34Craig Robinson?

  We use that on the court. Slow down to speed up.

• 1:18:36Speaker 03

  Don't you have to train and stretch the muscle and get it ready so that then you can sprint? Or?

• 1:18:41Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, or go fast to go slow.

• 1:18:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:44Craig Robinson?

  And go slow to go fast. It's just change your pace and realize that there's some positivity there. And then the final thing you said, Kim, was a little is really a lot. A little can be a lot.

• 1:18:58Speaker 03

  It can be.

• 1:18:59Craig Robinson?

  It can be a lot. If you're, if you're fortunate enough to be able to do something great, beautiful. But that doesn't mean that if you do something little, it's insignificant.

• 1:19:07Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 1:19:08Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:09Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 1:19:09Michelle Obama?

  That's how I feel.

• 1:19:10Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:19:11Michelle Obama?

  Some of the moments I remember most as First Lady, it wasn't the cover of a magazine or the speech that I gave. It was usually a conversation that I had in a photo line with a kid that was shy, that nobody saw. And that you could, with a hug and a couple of words and a, like, I see you. You see them walk to you one way and walk away a totally different person. You could see it. And it would be like, ah, if I could do that every day and nobody's looking, you know? That, those were the, that's when I felt like I had an impact, you know?

• 1:19:50Speaker 03

  Sounds to me like you're talking about doing less but being more.

• 1:19:54Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. Yeah, well, you know what's been impactful? Having the two of you here.

• 1:19:58Speaker 03

  All right now.

• 1:20:00Michelle Obama?

  Wait, but before, you know, my brother's in the always wrap up mode. But I do want to, I do want to find out, what are y'all doing?

• 1:20:08Craig Robinson?

  See, this is, this is.

• 1:20:09Speaker 03

  What is your birthday? I know she's a Capricorn. What are you?

• 1:20:11Craig Robinson?

  It's April 21st.

• 1:20:13Speaker 03

  Oh, you're a.

• 1:20:14Michelle Obama?

  Taurus.

• 1:20:15Speaker 03

  He's a, a Taurus.

• 1:20:16Craig Robinson?

  It's the.

• 1:20:16Speaker 03

  I'm with the Taurus.

• 1:20:18Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:19Speaker 03

  I'm, I get it. Like, come on, all right, all this talking now.

• 1:20:22Michelle Obama?

  I know, right.

• 1:20:22Craig Robinson?

  And there's, but, but there's a time limit and we have other things to do.

• 1:20:27Michelle Obama?

  But I do wanna know.

• 1:20:29Craig Robinson?

  Use your time, but.

• 1:20:30Michelle Obama?

  But I do wanna know, what do y'all, you know, what do y'all, what are you, what are you reading, watching now? Reality TV? Is sci-fi a thing for you guys? What, what's your, what's your guilty cultural pleasure?

• 1:20:45Speaker 03

  I'm not trying to kiss the ring, but later daters, I love that show.

• 1:20:52Michelle Obama?

  Us aspirational.

• 1:20:54Speaker 03

  Right, aspirational. The women are beautiful, the guys got their, you know, got their hookups and I, I love that show. So I, so I don't watch a lot of the more, what I would call more of the negative. Cause I also, I've done enough reality shows to know that it's nothing real about it. It's, you know, orchestrated and structured in a way for you to have, you know, certain reactions.

• 1:21:12Michelle Obama?

  I know.

• 1:21:13Speaker 03

  I've done a few.

• 1:21:14Michelle Obama?

  He's looking at me like.

• 1:21:15Speaker 03

  I've done a few. It was like, you know, you live in a house for two weeks with Dennis Rodman. The Surreal Life, The Surreal Life. Also a Taurus, by the way.

• 1:21:23Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 1:21:23Speaker 03

  He's the sweetest man. Oh, he's darling. He's, he's a doll baby. But anyway, so not, not that, but later daters, love it. Are you doing more seasons since I'm here?

• 1:21:31Michelle Obama?

  We're working on one. It's up to the powers that be.

• 1:21:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 1:21:35Speaker 00

  Always gotta come to it then.

• 1:21:36Michelle Obama?

  Um, so that.

• 1:21:37Speaker 00

  I just work so much, I wish I could say.

• 1:21:39Speaker 03

  Same here.

• 1:21:40Speaker 00

  I've gotten a chance to see Sinners four, five times.

• 1:21:43Speaker 03

  Oh, dang.

• 1:21:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, and, and I'm like that, like I went to go see MJ eight times. Like I'll see something over and over again as if you could digest it and, and, and become it. But, um, no, I, I, I have to do more to like just pay attention. I'd like to read more.

• 1:21:59Craig Robinson?

  This has been.

• 1:22:00Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:22:01Speaker 03

  Thank you so much. What a delight.

• 1:22:03Craig Robinson?

  A real treat.

• 1:22:04Speaker 00

  A, a, a dream of a lifetime and frankly. So grateful for all the work that you do in the world. And more importantly, putting something like this out so we can meet you in this way is huge. It kind of lifts the veil and that's beautiful.

• 1:22:17Speaker 03

  It's been an honor, a delight, revealing, easy.

• 1:22:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:22:22Speaker 03

  And just kind of what I expected would happen.

• 1:22:24Speaker 00

  Siblings can get along and also discover things about each other they didn't know, which is freaky. You know, love that, you know.

• 1:22:32Speaker 03

  Well, some point.

• 1:22:33Michelle Obama?

  That you can get along well enough to want to play in the same.

• 1:22:36Speaker 00

  Can you imagine?

• 1:22:37Michelle Obama?

  I could do this with my brother.

• 1:22:38Speaker 00

  But just show it, it can happen. So these are, you know, goals.

• 1:22:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:22:43Michelle Obama?

  It's happening right now. It's happening right now. Well, we're proud of you all, you two.

• 1:22:48Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:22:49Michelle Obama?

  And the entire cast, so please send everyone our love. Congratulations on all the ways that you both are becoming, continuing to become. It has been a treat. Y'all are some funny, smart women and more to come. Just keep doing some stuff. We'll do this again. Less, less, less, less. With different hair next time. With different hair.

• 1:23:39Craig Robinson?

  This episode is brought to you by Cologuard. I knew that I shouldn't delay screening for colon cancer and Cologuard has made that process one million times easier for all of us. I just answered a few questions about my age and medical history. And once their licensed clinician determined I was eligible, they issued the prescription and the Cologuard Plus kit was sent right to my home. No doctor's office visit necessary. For me, there was just immediate relief in getting it done. It cost me $0 with my insurance. It took me truly 15 minutes and now I can rest easier knowing I screened properly. Plus, if you get a negative result, you generally don't need a repeat Cologuard test for three years.

• 1:24:23Craig Robinson?

  If you're 45 or older and at average risk, it's time to screen for colon cancer, even if you feel perfectly healthy. And Cologuard Plus gives you an option you can use right at home. Talk to your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with Cologuard or request it online today at Cologuard.com where they have an easy telehealth option. Don't wait. Cologuard products are intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use if you have had a personal history of colorectal cancer or polyps, have inflammatory bowel disease, a family history of colorectal cancer, or certain hereditary syndromes, or a positive result from another colon cancer screening method within that test-recommended screening interval. Cologuard results should be interpreted with caution as false positives and false negatives do occur. Available by prescription only.