Support with Compassion with Dwyane Wade and Gabrielle Union

Former basketball player Dwyane Wade and actress Gabrielle Union join the podcast to answer a listener question about supporting their sibling’s child through a hard time. The group discusses how to build healthy communication strategies with siblings in adulthood, how to offer meaningful help while respecting boundaries, and what a spouse can do to support their partner's family during hard times. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com http://imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Craig Robinson?

  It's a gab way.

• 0:01Michelle Obama?

  There's a gab way. And what is the gab way? The right way, the most efficient way.

• 0:07Craig Robinson?

  No, it's the gab way and then it's the other way. That's what, that's what it is.

• 0:11Michelle Obama?

  I think about efficiency. I agree. Like, how do we solve the problem in the shortest amount of time?

• 0:23Michelle Obama?

  This episode is brought to you by Colaguard and Chase Home Lending.

• 0:30Michelle Obama?

  We're back. Hey, what's happening?

• 0:33Craig Robinson?

  Hi, thank you.

• 0:35Michelle Obama?

  Go hoodie.

• 0:35Craig Robinson?

  Thank you, thank you.

• 0:36Michelle Obama?

  You know, this is you trying to style it up here.

• 0:39Craig Robinson?

  This, this is not me trying to style it. This is Kelly and Austin trying to style me up.

• 0:43Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah? Is that an outfit picked out by your younger?

• 0:47Craig Robinson?

  By, by, by my 15 year old. Anything you time you see me with a hood on, that means Austin had a hand in the decision making process.

• 0:55Michelle Obama?

  So hood is?

• 0:57Craig Robinson?

  Hood is Austin.

• 0:58Michelle Obama?

  Adds an extra layer of?

• 1:00Craig Robinson?

  It's just he's trying to get me to be like a 15 year old.

• 1:03Michelle Obama?

  He's trying to keep his old dad looking young. It's like, so you don't come up to the game coaching like, whose grandfather is that?

• 1:10Craig Robinson?

  That's right.

• 1:11Michelle Obama?

  It's like, no, that's my dad. He's got a hoodie on, so he's cool. But now you're looking sharp.

• 1:16Craig Robinson?

  I feel, I feel good. I feel, I got a good night's sleep in, in the Airbnb last night. And you know, I'm staying, I, I stayed in the one in West Hollywood that I stayed in last time.

• 1:29Michelle Obama?

  So this is becoming your usual pad?

• 1:31Craig Robinson?

  Yes, and then I came to find out this was one of their featured places. And I see why, because once you stay there, you want to keep coming back.

• 1:40Michelle Obama?

  So what do you mean it's one of their featured places? They have featured?

• 1:43Craig Robinson?

  They, they have these spots where people rate it high enough. Like, this is a favorite place for a lot of people. And I see why.

• 1:50Michelle Obama?

  So you're taking up space.

• 1:52Craig Robinson?

  So I, I might be, but I'm, I'm.

• 1:55Michelle Obama?

  You, you think you wanted their high end?

• 1:57Craig Robinson?

  I'm trying to become one of their. High end customers.

• 2:01Michelle Obama?

  But that's the beauty of Airbnb. You've got all these different levels because I don't think when my kids, because they use Airbnb's a lot, they're not, they can't afford to stay in the nicer, higher ranked places. So what makes this place so nice?

• 2:15Craig Robinson?

  Well, aside from the fact that three bedrooms and there's only one of me.

• 2:19Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 2:20Craig Robinson?

  And two bathrooms. It's got two pools and a jacuzzi. Very comfortable. I got a good night's sleep. You know, I'm two, I'm usually two hours ahead, so I went to bed early. Woke up in the middle of the night.

• 2:34Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 2:35Craig Robinson?

  Checked my notes because I was excited about Dwayne and Gabrielle being here.

• 2:40Michelle Obama?

  I know. It's, it's gonna be a fun conversation.

• 2:42Craig Robinson?

  Yes, yeah, they're, they're like old friends, so it's, it's gonna be good.

• 2:46Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 2:47Craig Robinson?

  But this, this show is about sibling relationship and you know what people ask me all the time about you is what our relationship was like in college.

• 2:56Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, because we went to the same, same college.

• 2:59Craig Robinson?

  We went to Princeton together and I.

• 3:01Michelle Obama?

  Two years overlapped.

• 3:02Craig Robinson?

  Two years apart. And so we overlapped for two years and I would say that it was, it was sort of a normal relationship. I think I was more worried about you than mom would have liked me to be. But that's kind of usually what I do.

• 3:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, you, you were always kind of a worrier. But we didn't hang, hang out together.

• 3:26Craig Robinson?

  No, it wasn't like we were going to the pub drinking beers together, but.

• 3:30Michelle Obama?

  No, no.

• 3:31Craig Robinson?

  But whenever there was a party, we were usually both there together.

• 3:35Michelle Obama?

  And what people may not know about you is that you were a DJ.

• 3:39Craig Robinson?

  Correct.

• 3:40Michelle Obama?

  Craigie Craig on the, on the mic.

• 3:42Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 3:42Michelle Obama?

  You were Craigie Craig, right?

• 3:44Craig Robinson?

  I was Craigie Craig.

• 3:44Michelle Obama?

  So that was also another cool thing because the handful of parties that we had, which were always at the Third World Center, you and who else did you DJ with?

• 3:52Craig Robinson?

  With Steve Mills.

• 3:54Michelle Obama?

  With Steve Mills, also on the basketball team.

• 3:57Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, and William Murphy.

• 3:59Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that's right. So what did you, was your crew called something?

• 4:03Craig Robinson?

  It was called, oh my gosh, it was called the Playboy Crew.

• 4:06Michelle Obama?

  Oh.

• 4:07Craig Robinson?

  And we had these, we had these orange jackets. Why? Because that's what people did back then.

• 4:13Michelle Obama?

  Were you, were you all the playboys?

• 4:15Craig Robinson?

  No, well, you know, I wasn't a playboy, but we might've had a couple of playboys in our crew. Yeah, yeah, we were the Playboy Crew. We DJed most of the parties that took place.

• 4:28Craig Robinson?

  While we were there.

• 4:29Michelle Obama?

  So that was pretty cool, having your big brother on the mic, Craigie Craig on the mic. So that was, that was, that was kind of cool. So I think, you know, I mean, mom and dad raised us to be close, but independent.

• 4:42Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 4:43Michelle Obama?

  You know, and I think as a result, that's how it played out at college for us. I mean, you were not one to interfere in my love life. You weren't, although some people said that guys were a little less, they were a little cautious about stepping up because of you, but I don't think that that-

• 4:59Craig Robinson?

  And it wasn't anything I would say or do, it was just me being there.

• 5:03Michelle Obama?

  Your, your presence was there, but I didn't feel any different when you graduated. But I, you know, I, we, I, I feel fortunate to have, to have had you with me. Um, I think as, as difficult of a transition as Princeton could have been for me, coming from public school, being a black kid from the inner city, I think having you there really, you know, helped give me a level of confidence and just sort of a, kind of a, a place to land.

• 5:33Craig Robinson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:34Michelle Obama?

  Because every now and then we'd go out to dinner, or if you ever got invited by some Princeton booster or to go to dinner, which the basketball team got, you had sort of wealthy donors who kind of looked out for you. You would always bring me to these dinners. And I remember one dinner we went to, it's some older couple's house.

• 5:52Craig Robinson?

  The Georges, Mr. and Mrs. George.

• 5:54Michelle Obama?

  And they served artichokes.

• 5:56Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 5:57Michelle Obama?

  Do you remember that dinner?

• 5:58Craig Robinson?

  I remember.

• 5:59Michelle Obama?

  I had never, I mean, so-

• 6:01Craig Robinson?

  We had never had artichokes before.

• 6:02Michelle Obama?

  Imagine these two kids from the South Side of Chicago were sitting in some big house in Princeton, New Jersey. I don't know where we were. You know, we had table manners, but the first course was artichokes. I mean, and-

• 6:14Craig Robinson?

  We had no idea what we were doing.

• 6:16Michelle Obama?

  What to do with this. And I thought, because an artichoke looks like a cactus.

• 6:20Craig Robinson?

  Yes, it looks like it would stick you if you touched it.

• 6:23Michelle Obama?

  And then they, they, I mean, it's like you thought, is this a joke? You know, of all things to feed two, two black kids from the inner city, you go start with artichokes? Really? You know, but they told us about pulling the leaves off.

• 6:37Craig Robinson?

  And then scraping the-

• 6:39Michelle Obama?

  Scraping the little bit of artichoke, which I was like, on the leaf of an artichoke, there is nothing there. So I'm like, what are we doing? We're just sucking on, you dip it in some butter and lemon and you'd suck on it. And I was like, I don't, this is a joke. This is a joke. They're eating like plastic- Plastic, it looked like a plastic plant. I don't even remember what else they served, but I remember that artichoke. I couldn't, I don't, I think I was lost after that artichoke.

• 7:07Craig Robinson?

  Outside on a wood burning fire.

• 7:10Michelle Obama?

  Don't remember that. I just remember that artichoke.

• 7:12Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, well.

• 7:13Michelle Obama?

  But anyway, um, so, uh, so it was good, it was, it was a good experience and I think that, um, as a result, it affected the way we, um, our, our relationship into our adulthood. And I think we're talking about that today.

• 7:29Craig Robinson?

  We're talking about conflict resolution with siblings and, and.

• 7:34Michelle Obama?

  As adults.

• 7:35Craig Robinson?

  As adults.

• 7:36Michelle Obama?

  Totally different thing.

• 7:37Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, I mean, you know, when we were little, we just duped it out.

• 7:40Michelle Obama?

  Hit you in the back.

• 7:41Craig Robinson?

  That's right. You just hit me and I couldn't hit you back and that was.

• 7:44Michelle Obama?

  Seemed fair to me.

• 7:45Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah. But as, as we've gotten into adulthood, though, we, I mean, you know, we don't have many conflicts.

• 7:54Michelle Obama?

  No, no, we don't.

• 7:55Craig Robinson?

  So, I mean, if we were to have any kind of conflict, how to resolve it, would we just, we'd just talk it over, right?

• 8:04Michelle Obama?

  I, I would think so, but it would depend on what it was, unfortunately. But we can, we can get into that in a moment, but we got some guests.

• 8:12Craig Robinson?

  We have some guests and I am so excited, um, with these two. And like I said at the outset, this is like having family on. Um, first we've got, uh, well, we've got Gabrielle Union and Dwyane Wade. And, um, I want to start with Gabrielle. She's an actress and an executive producer, an activist and bestselling author. She began her acting career in the 1990s and is known for her roles in films like Bring It On, 10 Things I Hate About You, The Perfect Find and The Inspection, which I'm trying to see, is there anything on there I haven't seen? I haven't seen the inspection yet.

• 8:54Michelle Obama?

  Okay, you got time.

• 8:56Craig Robinson?

  And then, and then there's my good, my, my man, Dwyane Wade, who's a former professional basketball player, who's in the Hall of Fame and named to the top 75 players of all time. He won three National Basketball Association Championships in 2006, 2012, and 2013.

• 9:16Michelle Obama?

  The ultimate power couple.

• 9:17Craig Robinson?

  As a member of the Miami Heat, he and Gabrielle Union have been married since 2014. And Dwyane tried to dunk on me at the president's birthday party when we were, um, when we were together. He doesn't remember this, of course, because he tries to dunk on everybody. But he, he tried to catch a body on me, and I just kind of tiptoed out of the way. So we can talk about that a little bit.

• 9:43Michelle Obama?

  So you technically weren't dunked on because you just moved out of the way.

• 9:46Craig Robinson?

  I just tiptoed right out of the way.

• 9:47Michelle Obama?

  That's a good way not to get dunked on.

• 9:48Craig Robinson?

  I could see the look, and he, he had business in his mind when he was coming toward me. So we have Gabrielle Union and Dwyane Wade. Come on out, gang.

• 9:56Michelle Obama?

  Hey, guys, welcome to IMO.

• 10:05Michelle Obama?

  I think that's, that's, that's some of the best advice for not getting dunked on. Step aside, step aside. Hey, y'all.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Hi.

• 10:14Michelle Obama?

  Welcome to IMO. How are you guys doing?

• 10:18Speaker 03

  Good. It's been like an eventful 2025 so far. So half of it is just hang on, just hang on.

• 10:25Michelle Obama?

  It's just like, where are we now?

• 10:26Speaker 03

  Where are we, what are we doing? But yeah, through it all, we've got jokes.

• 10:30Michelle Obama?

  Yep.

• 10:31Speaker 03

  Like, thank God for humor. We got jokes.

• 10:33Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 10:33Craig Robinson?

  Indeed.

• 10:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, we just, uh, we just keep coming back to family. We keep finding our, finding new ways to family. You know, we have new projects. We bought a place up in, up where the farm country area meets the, the, the water.

• 10:51Michelle Obama?

  So what's happened up there?

• 10:52Speaker 02

  Silence, we need silence in our life.

• 10:54Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 10:55Speaker 03

  And a place where we can just, there's not as many distractions.

• 10:58Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 10:58Speaker 03

  Where we can just kind of have real quality time. Where there's very little cell service.

• 11:03Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:04Speaker 03

  And, um, so nobody's on their phones like that. Because we're, can't get any service. So we're just really turning to each other. So, yeah, it's been good, though.

• 11:14Michelle Obama?

  That's awesome, that's awesome. So you guys now are old married couple?

• 11:18Speaker 03

  I mean, it goes.

• 11:20Michelle Obama?

  You're getting close to me and Barack.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  We're 10 years, we're 10 years in. I heard you say that you had 10 years where you didn't even like Barack. So I'm like, man, where is that coming?

• 11:34Michelle Obama?

  You know, I just tell the truth. You know, it's like you have these periods, right? And if you married for 30 years, you know, like you just look at the odds. If you're gonna be married 30 years and somebody told you a third of those times wouldn't be great.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:49Michelle Obama?

  You'd still take the odds. You'd take those odds. Those are great odds. The point being is that marriage is, is beautiful, but it's difficult. And you don't, you don't just walk away in the difficult times because you miss all the beauty. Because you don't, you, because you think it's gotta be perfect, you know? And it is never perfect. It just is, you know?

• 12:11Speaker 02

  It just is.

• 12:12Speaker 03

  You just, it just is. And you keep going. You know, we had the fires, right? And so I'm always that person who like, I stay in a place of, I wish a such and such would, right? So I think of every worst case scenario at all times, right? I know the escape routes. I know what I'm gonna do. I know what I'm gonna say. I'm ready, right?

• 12:34Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  Welcome to the club.

• 12:36Speaker 03

  Right? Well, and then.

• 12:37Michelle Obama?

  Until there's a fire.

• 12:38Speaker 03

  The fire breaks out because, you know, first day, of course, Dee was like, let's all pack a bag. We'll put the suitcase by the door.

• 12:45Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 12:45Speaker 03

  First day comes, we don't actually evacuate. So you start taking a couple of things out that you need. Second day comes, we don't actually evacuate. Now, there's more things out. Third day, it's like midday. It doesn't seem like we're gonna evacuate. I'm looking out the window and I see this plume of white smoke. So I Google, what does white smoke mean? And it says new fire. But I'm kind of in shock, right?

• 13:12Michelle Obama?

  You can see it.

• 13:13Speaker 03

  I can see it. It looks like it's on the other side of our neighbor's home. It's close. And it's not in the direction of any other fire. So I'm on all the apps. I'm like, did we miss a fire that started? It had just started, literally just started. And I'm just looking out the window and this guy comes home and he's like, it's go time. It's go time. And I'm like.

• 13:35Speaker 03

  I was in shock.

• 13:36Michelle Obama?

  I mean, no.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  He turned into Liam Neeson. He turned into Liam Neeson, she said.

• 13:43Speaker 03

  Jard, but I still couldn't move.

• 13:45Michelle Obama?

  Right, right.

• 13:45Speaker 03

  I was slowly getting my medication, like, what is happening? And he's like, whoa, you go away!

• 13:50Michelle Obama?

  What does go time mean?

• 13:52Speaker 02

  They say you have a plan until you get hit in the mouth. I heard a bunch say that. Everybody have a game plan until you get hit in the mouth. And at that point, we got hit in the mouth. And it was like a quick moment of hesitation.

• 14:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  And then it was like, no, no. No, it's go time.

• 14:04Speaker 03

  We gotta go.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  So, I might have said it with a little...

• 14:07Speaker 03

  Oh, like...

• 14:08Speaker 02

  It's a little...

• 14:09Speaker 03

  A little bass in your voice. Yeah. It's go time.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  It was time to go.

• 14:13Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  Thinking about all the family, we gotta go.

• 14:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. You thought about, like, which cars, right? Because you're thinking, if we come back to nothing, you know, like, at least the adults in our household, it's me, Dee, and my little sister who helps us raise cars. He pulls out the three most expensive cars. I've driven, me and my sister have driven none of it. It's like, I don't, we don't even know how to operate. I don't know how to turn on the radio. We don't know where exactly we're evacuated, just north. Like, me and Tracy are like, we're in, you know, these cars. And both of us are thinking, what is his deductible? If, if I crash this thing, like, how much is it gonna cost? I couldn't, it was, oh, but this man with a plan.

• 14:52Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. And, and then, in the end, in those times, it's like, you have family. Because as many people as I've talked about, we have a number of friends who were affected by the fire. And, you know, we has the question, when it's go time, what do you take, right? And for so many people, when they looked at the stuff, that what they really took was a little bit of, a lot of nothing. It was like, in the end, you just wanted to get out with the people that you love. I don't know if you guys felt that way, but a lot of people had clarity about their stuff and what really mattered in this instance, when everything could be gone.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  You know, the only thing I thought about that I didn't take, and I didn't take a lot, but really the photos and the pictures on the walls. Them memories and the moments. I know we have our iPhones and we have photos all in there, but it's a lot of photos that you cannot get back. And when I came back to the house, I was like, I would have missed, really, really, really missed these. So, that would be the one thing I would go back and say, get all the photos off the walls.

• 15:52Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 16:01Craig Robinson?

  This segment is brought to you by Chase Home Lending, who is committed to helping people in all communities gain confidence in the home buying process. You know, Meech, we've had a number of questions from young people about where they should be putting down roots. Can you talk about the importance of community and support networks when putting down roots and buying a home?

• 16:25Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. In fact, the very first home you remember that Barack and I bought was a condominium on South Side of Chicago in Hyde Park, in Eastview Park. And one of the primary selling features of us choosing that home was that it was literally five doors down from the home that you had bought.

• 16:49Craig Robinson?

  That's right.

• 16:50Michelle Obama?

  So it meant a lot for us to be able to be close to you as new home buyers. You guys had just got married, you and Janice, and you had just had Avery.

• 17:03Craig Robinson?

  Avery was the baby when we moved in there. And all of those homes were condos, right? So they were like apartments, but they were two and three bedroom places that were perfect for a fresh start or a first start in home buying.

• 17:21Michelle Obama?

  And community for us as a family unit. I mean, we all lived very close from each other. Not everybody in our extended family were homeowners. Some people rented. But renting near people that you loved when we grew up.

• 17:37Craig Robinson?

  It was like when we grew up. You know, we were around the corner from two grandparents.

• 17:42Michelle Obama?

  And we lived above Aunt Robbie.

• 17:45Craig Robinson?

  We lived above our Aunt Robbie. And we lived about. Fifteen minute drive from our paternal grandparents.

• 17:52Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 17:53Craig Robinson?

  We were used to being close to each other.

• 17:55Michelle Obama?

  And we could lean on each other. So in addition to, you know, dealing with the new burdens of being homeowners, it was good to have family close by, you know, do the proverbial dropping by for a cup of sugar, you know, having some ready-made babysitters on hand.

• 18:14Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah, and shoot, we have a different situation, but the same kind of community that we, we are providing for our younger kids. And I'm doing it in a different way. I'm in the community coaching their sports.

• 18:29Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 18:30Craig Robinson?

  And, and, and that is a great way to meet new people, to social, to have the kids socialize with, with different kind of folks that they don't go to school with. I've, I've also spoken at the kids' schools. I have participated in their field day activities. But it's really important.

• 18:53Michelle Obama?

  To invest in the communities that you live and are investing to buy a home.

• 18:57Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah, and I mean, I gotta imagine it was hard for you to accomplish this when you were in the White House. How did you do that?

• 19:06Michelle Obama?

  Well, it's still, being a part of the Wash, the broader Washington DC community was important on a number of different levels. I mean, I wanted the broader community to feel like they had some connection to what was going on behind the gates of the White House. So for example, every time we had a state dinner, we made sure to invite local school groups, local classrooms to come for the day to join in the welcoming ceremony for the, for the country leader that was coming in. We would work with the local public schools to have them come in and taste the dinner and sit down and see the,

• 19:46Craig Robinson?

  Oh, nice.

• 19:46Michelle Obama?

  See, see the table setting so that a lot of kids growing up in the inner city would understand that right down the street from them and right in their backyard was this amazing. Diplomatic exchange, but if we didn't invite them in, they wouldn't understand what all the hubbub was. So we did our very best, even in the White House, to continue having an investment in our broader community and not just in the world was a, it was a priority for us, as it should be for any homeowner.

• 20:16Craig Robinson?

  Thanks to Chase Home Lending for sponsoring this segment. Having the right support when finding a home is so important, and Chase Home Lending helps people at every stage of the homeownership journey, from first time buyers to those relocating for new opportunities. They are committed to helping people in all communities gain confidence in the home buying process. Because owning a home isn't just about having a place to live, it's about building a brighter future for you and your family. Ready to take that first step? Learn more at chase.com/start. Member FDIC = Housing Opportunity.

• 21:04Michelle Obama?

  So you, you said your sister's with you.

• 21:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:07Michelle Obama?

  So are you guys close as an extended family?

• 21:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:15Speaker 03

  I speak my little sister as a little sister. Like, we are seven years apart. Like, there's three of us girls. Me and my older sister are four. And then seven. So we were related, but we weren't really in the house at the same time. We were not going through the same milestones at the same time. So she's like just this little sister in my mind. They're closer to the same age. So he sees her as way more capable and, you know, way more, I shouldn't say important, because she's important, but like, she's just a little sister.

• 21:50Michelle Obama?

  Adult, like.

• 21:50Speaker 03

  Yes, she is an adult to him. She's a little sister to me. And he values my little sister like no other. I never thought I'd live with someone's sister.

• 22:01Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 22:02Speaker 03

  I mean, and, you know, like, me and my little sister, we deal with so much with our, you know, with our, our family.

• 22:09Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 22:09Speaker 03

  You know, both of our parents are, you know, they're older. Many health issues, dealing with insurance, dealing with who's going where, who's covering, you know. So security hasn't kicked in, so we don't have caregiver relief and who's doing what and how. I'm very meticulous, very anal. There's a right way and there's a wrong way. There is zero gray. And my little sister lives in a place of varying colors of gray. And so, you know, it's, it's hard when you're under stress and you're like, well, why didn't you do this, this and this? And he's like, but she did it. It just wasn't how you wanted it done.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a gab way.

• 22:47Michelle Obama?

  There's a gab way?

• 22:49Speaker 03

  And then it's the other way.

• 22:49Michelle Obama?

  What is the gab way?

• 22:50Speaker 03

  The right way, the most efficient way.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  No, it's the gab way, then it's the other way. That's what, that's what it is.

• 22:58Speaker 03

  I think about efficiency.

• 22:59Michelle Obama?

  I agree, I agree.

• 23:00Speaker 03

  Like, how do we solve the problem in the shortest amount of time? But yeah, I mean, and she just has a different way of moving through life and she's way more positive. The glass is not only half full, it is spilling over even when there's cobwebs in the glass. So we just approach life differently and when you add in stressors, it is, it's a challenge. Cause we wake up to each other. We haven't done that, you know, in a billion years. And it's like, and I want to send her a strongly worded email, like I would send my older sister, cause she doesn't live at our house. But she's there, she has a breakfast and I'm like, are you just gonna eat those?

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Over avocado.

• 23:37Speaker 03

  You know, like avocado toast. You're just not responding to the family group chat. Okay, okay. You know what I mean? But, you know, we, we figure it out, but he's the translator.

• 23:47Michelle Obama?

  That's what I was about to say. Then you, how are you in the middle of all this?

• 23:51Speaker 02

  I'm the common factor of, of all of this.

• 23:53Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  Um, until I'm not, but I, you know, I understand the dynamics. And, you know, I also understand the Scorpios that's in my house.

• 24:03Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, oh.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  They're both Scorpios.

• 24:06Speaker 03

  But different kind of Scorpios.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  But I understand them a little bit. And so I, I think for me is it's really taking time. I've really took a lot of time to get to know her sister. Like, um, hey, late at night, let's have a conversation, let's get a drink. You know, let's go to lunch, um, rise to school with, with our daughter, like just trying to get to know the person. And you know, not look at her as her little sister and all the things she says about having a little sister, because I understand. And so I'm just, you know, the one to say, well, look at it this way, because y'all are so polar opposites. And you know, she's never gonna be, never gonna do it how you want it done. And so, you know, sometimes you gotta take, you know, you gotta move on the other side. Perspective is important.

• 24:48Michelle Obama?

  Well, not many men could live with their sister in law.

• 24:53Michelle Obama?

  You know?

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Talk to me.

• 24:54Michelle Obama?

  I mean, you know, I mean, I, yeah.

• 24:56Craig Robinson?

  And I'm, I'm interested, so how's your relationship with your sister? Compared to with?

• 25:05Michelle Obama?

  And vice versa.

• 25:06Craig Robinson?

  And vice versa.

• 25:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, my relationship, I have four sisters, very, very different ages. One that I'm really, really close with because we grew, we have the same mother and father.

• 25:18Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  And so our relationship is, is great. She raised me, it's a respect factor there on both sides. My other sisters are, you know, we have same mom, different dads and things of that nature. So I, I give them space and they give me space. And when they don't give me space, I give them more space.

• 25:40Michelle Obama?

  All right, well, well said.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I give them more space. But I think, you know, one thing, and it comes with a little bit of the position that I'm in, where, you know, I've, I've been the, the leader of the family in a lot of ways, right? Because of this position.

• 25:53Craig Robinson?

  Yep.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  And so my relationship with my sisters has become a little, you know, different because sometimes they become dependent on. And that changes the brother sister relationship when you have to depend on, you know, each other and especially in the financial way.

• 26:05Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  And all these other ways. And so, you know, I, I give that space because I'm like the parent. I'm like, you know what? Think about that.

• 26:11Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  Think about that ask a little bit.

• 26:13Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, right.

• 26:16Michelle Obama?

  Let's sit on that for a moment.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  So, yeah.

• 26:20Michelle Obama?

  And what about you?

• 26:21Speaker 03

  That age difference, right? Between him and his next oldest sister, you and Trigill are what?

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Like five years.

• 26:28Speaker 03

  Five years apart.

• 26:30Speaker 03

  So when I first met his family, the older sisters who are closer in my age, immediately.

• 26:37Michelle Obama?

  They got it.

• 26:38Speaker 03

  Good, yeah, we're, we're good in the hood. But like with, with Trigill, because that's. She has been the protector. She has been the watchdog. She has been the gatekeeper to keep him sane and to keep him, you know, doing everything he needs to do without interference from anybody. And I'm like, but I'm not, I'm not. I'm not just anybody. I just happen to be his wife. And I think, you know, before I got to the wife stage, like, well, we were just like, you know, the very beginning. And it was like, you know, I think him, you know, Trigill and his mom were like, what do you want? Who are you? Who are you, you older lady? What do you want? You know, what do you want?

• 27:24Speaker 03

  You cougar cradle. Like. Rocking. Yeah. Like, what are you? Cradle riding. But I was like, actually, we both just got divorced. So we're kind of in the same space. Like, I didn't have a kid at 20. Like, I'm still childless. And I'm not racing to do that. So I'm straight. I got my own bank account. So I'm good. I just, I just like him. You know, we'll see where it goes. But it's what it took. It took some years, really, to like, you know, earn, earn their trust. And then also for them to earn my trust. So we can be comfortable equally. Right. And now, like, yeah, it's, it's easy because we are all on the same side.

• 28:08Speaker 03

  So we, his mom and his sister Trigill, we tend to have the same complaints about the same things that we then want to take to him. And how do you not see this? See me and your mama and your sister? You know? But now you got some allies. She got reinforcements now. Yeah. And once she got married, once his sister Trigill got married, now, you know, now it's like, she gets it. You know, because she's coming into a relationship where he'd been married before and he has kids. And I was like, huh. Not so easy, is it? You know, but you, you know, you, you want that grace. You give that grace. And eventually you receive that grace. So. Yeah. But it's a learning curve, for sure.

• 28:59Craig Robinson?

  Hey everybody, Craig Robinson here. As you know, when we do these podcast recordings in LA, I always ask my wife to get an Airbnb for me. But most importantly, I want the ones that are guest favorites for my stay. These are the most loved homes by other guests on Airbnb. And you know, we've got some trips as a family set up for our kids' AAU basketball tournaments, and they're in small towns all over the country. And we always book guest favorites when we go places that we haven't been before. That way, you make sure you get something that the other guests find really appealing. So when you are planning your next trip, try guest favorites.

• 29:44Craig Robinson?

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• 31:31Craig Robinson?

  and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Cologuard test is not a replacement for colonoscopy in high-risk patients. Cologuard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur. Cologuard is available by prescription only. I love this time of year, but hosting during the holidays can be a bit of a challenge. So Kelly and I have collected a few hacks to make it a little bit easier. One of our favorite moves is an extendable dining room table.

• 32:16Craig Robinson?

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• 33:00Craig Robinson?

  That's W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 33:04Speaker 04

  Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 33:12Speaker 03

  Families, you know, complicated.

• 33:15Craig Robinson?

  That's a perfect segue to the listener question because Charlotte needs a little bit of help with her sister. And Natalie, do you mind reading the question for us?

• 33:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, I got a short little story, so bear with me. Hi, Michelle and Craig. My name is Charlotte and I live in Tacoma, Washington. My sister and I have lived in the same city as one another since college and have always been close. We are both married with teenage kids. My sister's daughter is a couple of years younger than my kids. I love my niece, but she has been really challenging for my sister to parent. She has a ton of anger and is in therapy for it, but she takes a lot of these feelings out on my sister. She's also much meaner to her mom than her dad, and I suspect it's been hard on my sister's marriage. I wouldn't be surprised if the stress at home is affecting my sister at work or in her other close relationships. Which brings me to my role in this. For a long time, my sister talked to me

• 34:10Speaker 05

  about the fight she was having with my niece. But in the past year, she's gotten noticeably distant. She avoids talking about anything going on in her family, and she's acted closed off and even standoffish if I go there. She's also been making increasingly rude comments at my expense, which I recognize is coming from stress, but it's still hurtful. So my question is, how do I support my sister, her family, and her daughter, especially when my sister won't even let me in? Do I allow things to stay surface level for a while and wait for it to get better? Or do I try to find a different way to talk to her? Is there anything different I can do to support her or even her daughter better while also protecting our bond?

• 34:56Speaker 05

  Thanks, Charlotte.

• 34:57Craig Robinson?

  Well, that's a question. So it sounds like Charlotte knows that there's something wrong. And my question is, let's back up and figure out, is it better to hit questions head on or beat around the bush and subtly get to the answer?

• 35:15Speaker 03

  Right between the eyes. Like, let's just get to it. Let's get to it. Nobody has, you know, oodles and noodles of time these days. You know, we all have families. Let me know. Because it could be something you could fix on a dime. Could be something you're just not really aware of. Could be your tone, things you can adjust. But in this situation, I first would want to hear her sister's version of this. I want to hear from the sister's husband because it doesn't sound like the sister has a lot of support. But I would also say that it's probably way worse than what her sister has shared. And it sounds like it has gotten to a place where it is so humiliating and so embarrassing and so hurtful

• 35:57Speaker 03

  that it's embarrassing to share that, especially if Charlotte's daughter is, you know, like, doesn't have a lot of problems. It just sounds like you're imagining a judgment that is not happening. Or maybe it is. That's another question that we would probably have for Charlotte's sister. You know what I mean? So you are like, I bet you they're judging me because that's how you're really thinking about yourself. So I would rather keep distance than feel your judgmental eyes or whatever it is that, you know, the sister is imagining that Charlotte's doing.

• 36:32Michelle Obama?

  Well, then you like, you make a good point. We don't know the age dynamic is who's older, who's younger. You know, there's probably some history there of, you know, what that relationship has been, so, you know.

• 36:48Speaker 03

  And like her taking shots at Charlotte. We got to turn this around because there's too much heat on me. It's too much heat on me and I'm going to redirect it where I think the judgment is coming from.

• 36:59Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 37:00Speaker 03

  Except Charlotte's like, she feels like she's just taking strays because she's just trying to be supportive. But it's the assumption of judgment and, you know, ridicule and whatever that is happening to me in the sister's mind.

• 37:14Michelle Obama?

  But in this situation, my advice would be you got to pull your sister aside and have the conversations you didn't have. Because this is, this is when bad dynamics get in the way of the future, right? Because it's, you know, whatever is fueling. That thing that's keeping Charlotte and her sister from being able to just have a straight up conversation, a kind of, even though those conversations are hard. I mean, look, when Craig was going through his divorce from his first wife, I've said this time and time again, he did not tell me that they were having problems. He didn't, you know, I thought they were the Cosby's, you know, I literally, so I went from,

• 37:59Michelle Obama?

  and I was close to my first sister in law, right? We were, we lived down the street from one another. So sometimes things are bad. And it's just, as my brother said, he didn't want to pull us in because he didn't want us to start judging. And if things worked out and so on and so forth.

• 38:18Craig Robinson?

  If things worked out, she would never get over it.

• 38:21Michelle Obama?

  But that wouldn't have been the case. I might have been mad, you know, but that's why you need to have those conversations.

• 38:27Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 38:27Michelle Obama?

  Because it would have been better for him to come to me and say, Meech, you know, I'm gonna share something with you. But, you know, I need you to keep a cool head because I have to have a safe place to come. We've since had that conversation. And I think this is why in his second marriage, you know, we've approached the dynamic of brother and sister differently. And our communication is different because I don't want him to ever think that he could be in any kind of harm and that I would judge him. I might, you know, I don't know how I'm gonna react. If somebody's messing with my brother, my first reaction is buck up, you know? I can't say that I'm not gonna be that way. But I'd rather like, let me get through that,

• 39:10Michelle Obama?

  you know, so that we can then step in and have the conversation.

• 39:15Michelle Obama?

  That's why that dynamic is important. Because when stuff like this happens, you need your family. Because it could, Charlotte could be part of the solution to help her sister just be another voice at the table for her niece, you know? Because sometimes you can hear, you can hear from somebody else, which you cannot hear from your own parents, which is why the village is so important, you know? So I would say, sit your sister down if you can. Try, try push through that, that, that pain or whatever it is and, and, and help her know that she can share with you whatever it is without judgment and you're there to help.

• 39:58Speaker 02

  I was in Utah and I had a speech to do. I thought I did well.

• 40:04Michelle Obama?

  I'm sure you did.

• 40:05Speaker 02

  And then your sister came out and I realized that they was crying when she got done. You see that answer she just had?

• 40:12Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  That's how I felt in Utah. My perspective, I think we all could be right on our perspectives. And mine will come from an angle of watching my sister-in-law when she's around her sister. Also to my relationship with my sister. Sometimes you gotta take it all the way back to the basics. And the basics to me is focus on your relationship just with your sister. Sometimes you just need your sister, you know, and provide that safe spaces as being a sister. Not being the auntie, not being, you know, anyone who brings judgment. Just be that person that she can come to you and she want to talk to. Because y'all have history and similar backgrounds. So I think sometimes when I see Tracy light up, it's when her and Gab, but just being sisters.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  It's not being auntie, it's not you not doing this, not doing that. It's when they just hanging out as sisters and that allows for you to want to open up more so than feeling judgment from someone or with all these, you know, these emotions that we go through. And so I would just say, Charlotte, just be a sister, you know, like you guys were when you grew up. Before it was husbands and kids and all the things. You guys, y'all was your sisters and maybe more will come out then.

• 41:23Craig Robinson?

  This makes me wonder though, is it ever okay as a sibling to go around your sibling and go directly to their kid and talk to them? Or maybe go around the sibling and talk to her husband, Charlotte's husband, a brother-in-law? Is that ever a good idea? And I can tell Gab, I can see the Gab face.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  That's not for me.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  I mean, listen, if you really think someone is suffering, I will try everything that I'm gonna go directly to you. And if I feel like I'm getting shut down, but I still feel like, oh, you're circling the drain, like it could get to a danger zone, I will try every avenue to reach you, whether it be through a mutual friend, another relative.

• 42:16Speaker 03

  You know, we have a group chat that we call the Sanity Crew, and it's, you know, three of us couples. And we could take to the Sanity Crew.

• 42:24Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I like that.

• 42:25Speaker 03

  You know, or I can go to any, anyone else in the Sanity Crew and be like, this is what's happening with me and Dee.

• 42:31Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 42:31Speaker 03

  Can you talk to him? I, I, because I don't think I, either I'm not hearing him, or I don't, I, because I don't get it.

• 42:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 42:39Speaker 03

  Is there anything that you can do? So I'm not above doing that at all. Especially if it gets into like that danger zone, where it's, they're kind of cutting off from everything. And, you know, like when you're left to circle the drain on your own, it can get dark fast.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  But also, I'm okay with space. Like, let's, let's give it a beat. And maybe she is being inundated, not just by her sister, but by everyone who is a witness to this. And just, just a beat. And then just say, hey, you want to go get a drink? You want to go, you know, go to a museum? Just, you want to sit in the park? I'll, I'll go get some subs. And then it, it kind of takes the pressure off it having to be about your kid, or whatever, the, my, my perceived lack of support from her husband.

• 43:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, kind of getting back to just, you know. But also, space, you know? Like, I don't, like, if I feel like my back is to the wall, give me a minute.

• 43:37Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 43:38Speaker 03

  Maybe a few weeks. Yeah, yeah, so I can figure that out.

• 43:43Michelle Obama?

  So, yeah, yeah.

• 43:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:45Michelle Obama?

  But I, I, I, I, Dwayne, I like what you said about just sometimes being with people. You know, um, and it sounds like this family, Charlotte's family, they spend a lot of time together because they're having meals on a regular basis. They're in one another's homes enough that she sees what's happening with her niece. But when I think about what I might do in that situation, I, I'm, I would probably be cautious about saying something, especially if I'd gotten some pushback. But I would probably try to spend more time with my niece if I could. That just sort of, just like be a sister is like, maybe just be an auntie too.

• 44:27Michelle Obama?

  You know, so it doesn't feel like you're addressing a problem, but maybe this is a cry for help. And so, yeah, maybe, uh, maybe I can take her to lunch or maybe I can just pick her up and do something that seems innocuous. Or fun, uh, where maybe this girl will open up to me in a different way. Where she doesn't feel watched. Or if you set up a regular session with her, like, let's go get our nails done. I'm just thinking, you know, you're 12. Why don't, Auntie, I'm gonna take you, we're gonna do something you like. I bet she likes getting her nails done, especially if she's being sassy. She probably got, probably got acrylics, you know? So let's, sounds like that girl's got acrylics.

• 45:13Michelle Obama?

  So go take her to, she's snapping her nails at you. I bet she's got some nails to snap. So take her to get her nails done, you know? And sit and see if you can, in a natural, just sort of being way, find out what's going on with your niece. I, I try to do that. You know, I, I don't do it as much with your younger boys. Cause they're, I'm not with them as much. But with the older kids, you know, when we were in the White House, his older two, we'd always, whenever they could, they would go on trips with us in the White House. You know, we, we always make it a point to. Because the thought was, okay, we got these kids growing up in the White House

• 45:56Michelle Obama?

  and being on the world stage, they should know something about the world, right? And so usually on their breaks, that's when we would plan a big trip. You know, that's when we went to see the Pope, or we went to South Africa, or we went to the Great Wall, or, you know, just so that these, you know, my, my girls would walk away from this experience with something more than paparazzi following them, right? Um, but we would always include Avery and Leslie. Um, and those times with Grandma, you know? So I got a lot of good time with them on these long, amazing trips. Just, you know, a lot of times I'm working, come back into the room and they're playing Uno, or they're doing something silly with Grandma.

• 46:40Michelle Obama?

  But I, I'd like to think that, I know for Leslie, for example, I know she knows that she can call me, you know? Oh, yeah. That she can text me. And I think that, not just because I'm her aunt, but it's that time in. Because sometimes you gotta look a kid in the face and go, I, I, I see you. And especially when you, your aunt is important and the First Lady, you need to be able to say, no, no, no, never too important for you. And I'm gonna say this in between, seeing the Queen and talking to the da, da, da. You're here too, come sit down. And not everybody has the platform of the White House, but there are versions of that, of making sure that the kids in your life know that you see them.

• 47:24Michelle Obama?

  So that when it's time, when they do fall short, when they are circling the drain, maybe, maybe they'll just reach up for a lifeline. And maybe Charlotte can do some of that, a little of that, you know?

• 47:42Speaker 03

  I'm so curious, who in their family is that person? Who can just pull that little girl up by like,

• 47:47Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, don't you?

• 47:48Speaker 03

  All right, knock it off, so let's, let's get to it.

• 47:50Michelle Obama?

  Can pull that little girl.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  What are we really, what are we really dealing with right now? You know what I mean? Like, and that like overnails or, or, um, but like there's...

• 48:00Speaker 03

  I'm trying to think of who our cut the S person is.

• 48:03Michelle Obama?

  That's not you, Gap?

• 48:05Speaker 03

  No, not with anybody's kids, like, you know, like, no, I tend to, I tend to be, you know, a little more judgmental. They're definitely not coming to me first. But like, you've done that. You did that with-

• 48:16Speaker 02

  I'm the one. Don't look too far.

• 48:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, you did it with Torin.

• 48:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, you did it with my nephew, Torin.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  I think that going back to what I said is, you know, I'm not trying to come in and be a specialist. Kids don't want a specialist. And so if you ask me to talk to Torin, I'm not going to talk to Torin about what you want me to talk to him about.

• 48:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  And not the way that you want me to talk to him, because I'm just coming in as a specialist at this point. He's not going to share anything with me or be open and honest. And so I have to take a whole different approach. And I gotta be uncle. I gotta be somebody who actually understands. Sometime we come in and the way we saying it, it don't feel like we understand that we've been there before.

• 48:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:55Speaker 02

  And so, um, yeah, it's a different approach.

• 48:57Craig Robinson?

  Mm-hmm. It really is. And as a parent, as a father, you have to be the bad cop a lot. So when you try and come in and try and be the good cop, it just doesn't work. So I need Mish to, all right, come, come ease in and, and, and take some of the load off this kid, because he's catching it from me.

• 49:22Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:23Craig Robinson?

  Or it's, it's somebody in our communities, either another family member or one of our good friends who also knows the kids who can come in and be like, well, you know, just like you're saying, you can't come in as a spec- that's a, that's a wonderful way of putting it.

• 49:37Speaker 03

  That you're coming in as a specialist.

• 49:39Craig Robinson?

  You, you can't just come in as the point guard telling guys what to do. You're the captain of the team. You gotta come in and be a teammate.

• 49:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:46Craig Robinson?

  And say, I'm suffering through stuff too, and what else is going on?

• 49:51Speaker 02

  I'm in it with you.

• 49:51Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, I, I think that's helpful for Charlotte. But, but what are some other strategies we can give Charlotte? You know, that's what I'm, I mean, because every family is different. And by us on the outside looking in, it's kind of tough. But I really, I really feel like it doesn't have to be the people who are asking the questions. You know, like you said, there's, there's got to be somebody in their community, in their village who, who can help.

• 50:28Michelle Obama?

  Well, what, what I think about is, you know, and this doesn't help Charlotte in the immediate future, but if people are listening, you know, it, it, it sort of reinforces the importance of, of establishing a good sibling dynamic. All right, because, you know, as I try to tell my girls, you, you guys are all you have, really, you know? Um, and sometimes it's like, so before the problem gets where it is for Charlotte and her sister, where they aren't communicating, whatever that dynamic was, let's step back and just sort of talk about why it's important to parent and how do you parent your kids

• 51:13Michelle Obama?

  to have a good dynamic, you know? Because some, a lot of times, bad sibling dynamic stems from some, something, some parent did, you know? Um, I, I always talk about the fact that I think that one of the things that helps our dynamic is that we're opposite genders, you know? Uh, and brother, sister, especially little sister.

• 51:38Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 51:38Michelle Obama?

  I always looked up to him, you know? Even though I know my mother loves her black son way more. You know, I mean, I joke about that she didn't love him more, but there's just this

• 51:49Craig Robinson?

  I was a favorite.

• 51:50Michelle Obama?

  Black mother dynamic of Craig, Craig, Craig. You know, he said, I could, you know, I was like, Mom, I'm the first lady, what more do I have to do?

• 51:58Craig Robinson?

  That's all right.

• 51:58Michelle Obama?

  She's like, Craig's here.

• 51:59Craig Robinson?

  He was Craigie Craig.

• 52:00Michelle Obama?

  And Craigie Craig's in the house. I'm like, okay. We still, we still going there, but you know, I was a fan too. Um, and I think a lot of that is, you know, if he were a girl. I probably hate him with that dynamic, you know, because he was the beloved, older, you know, sibling. And, you know, sometimes parents set that up, thinking, well, you should be more like X and you shouldn't be, you know, using the other child to help parent the other one. Setting up, you know, I want to talk a little bit about that because, you know, there are a lot of people who are parenting siblings. There are a lot of people, you know, how do we avoid that dynamic from happening?

• 52:43Michelle Obama?

  And how do you, how do we think about parenting differently? Because I tried never to compare my daughters as girls. I tried to avoid even, for example, having conversations about grades at the table.

• 52:58Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 52:59Michelle Obama?

  Right? Or who did what better, you know? Not to say that we couldn't reward, but I tried never to, well, you tell us and now you report out because the younger sibling is always catching up to the older one, you know? Um, but I was, I always tried to be mindful of that, especially with two girls of how do I love them both, parent them both, but keep, keep my parenting neutral enough that they don't feel like they're competing with one another? Um, but I think about that to this day to make sure that that doesn't happen. I don't know about how you guys think about that.

• 53:38Speaker 03

  I mean, there's three girls in our house. And, and, you know, my parents initially, they were like, we're going to, you know, have four years between the first and second. With the thought of, as we have to start paying for college, one's still in high school and by the time that one is out of, you know, so they could afford it.

• 53:53Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 53:54Speaker 03

  Perhaps my little sister, who came seven years after me, I said accident, they said, no, it was a plan. But it created such a weird space dynamic.

• 54:04Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 54:04Speaker 03

  Um, where my older sister became like a mom.

• 54:08Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 54:09Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? My older sister was doing all of the parent type of stuff at a younger age because both my parents worked and did overtime and, you know, and my, they were both going to college when, you know, we, we were very young. So she, like a lot fell on her. And it never changed.

• 54:25Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 54:25Speaker 03

  Like to this day, you know what I mean? Like, my sister is the one, you know, with my dad at skilled nursing and, you know, making sure everything, like every day, in addition to going to work, in addition to her kids and her new grandchild. It's, it's kind of never ended. And then I kind of got to be sort of free.

• 54:44Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 54:45Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? Like, I had, there was no expectation of me to do

• 54:48Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 54:49Speaker 03

  anything but get good grades. And then my little sister was kind of like, it was sort of at the, towards the end of their, you know, the good years of their marriage. So she just kind of became this extra person. You know, I mean, not that she was parenting herself, but it just was very different.

• 55:08Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 55:08Speaker 03

  Very different. Like, my little sister still gets on my mom's lap and, you know, my mom rocks her.

• 55:13Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 55:14Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? Still.

• 55:15Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 55:16Speaker 03

  And I just kind of had to figure out, you know, I leaned much heavier on my friends.

• 55:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 55:21Speaker 03

  They were a much bigger influence. But somehow, because they probably thought, oh, the middle child is getting nothing, they ended up giving me more, more attention, more special time.

• 55:34Michelle Obama?

  Yep.

• 55:35Speaker 03

  And then it kind of, according to them, I sort of emerged as the favorite.

• 55:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 55:41Speaker 03

  But it's really, you kind of like, you're watching, you're observant. And I'm like, okay, my dad's super, always wanted a boy. I'm gonna be the closest thing to, you know, a boy that he can have. Like, right? I'm giving, I'm doing all the sports, I'm learning the eye back formation, like, I know Nebraska football backwards and forwards. But then my mom is like, very, you know, cultured and she likes museums and, you know, all of that. I'm like, bet I'm there. Like, I become a history buff. Like, you know, we used to go to the, the, um, newsstand and buy newspapers from around the world and, you know, so I tried to appeal to, you know, you kind of appeal to their ego.

• 56:12Michelle Obama?

  You were the politician, you were in the middle. You be, and you had, also temperamentally, you had that ability. I'd say, I'd say this to, to Barack when it comes to, you know, our oldest, Malia is very much, she, she is, um, um, she's gonna figure out what, who you are, what do you like, and let's discuss, right? Unusual. She's always been that way, you know? I used to say Barack was like, when Malia was a teenager, it wasn't like she was going out any less or doing anything differently. She would tell me. I'm going out this weekend, but I'mma go in and give dad like 15 minutes.

• 56:54Michelle Obama?

  And she go into the treaty room and tell me about Syria. Oh, wow, really? Oh, that must be, you know. And then she'd be like, okay, well, I'm gone. Barack would come out of the treaty room going, Chest pumped out. I just had an amazing conversation with Malia, you know? And I'm like, okay, you know? And Sasha is like a cat. She's like, I don't touch me, don't pet me. I'm not pleasing you. I, you come to me, you know? And Barack's like, well, she's difficult. I was like, no, the, the first one was a pleaser. Right? And if just temperamentally, they're still like that, right? So, you know, if you're not sort of understanding the temperament,

• 57:38Michelle Obama?

  so you were probably temperamentally somebody who just understood people dynamic in a different way, right? You have to be a chameleon. You have to be a chameleon. And if you can be a chameleon, you know? But some people parent to one child or one personality child, but then you have three. Yeah. You know? They parent it, I think, towards me.

• 58:07Craig Robinson?

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• 58:50Craig Robinson?

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• 59:33Craig Robinson?

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• 59:46Speaker 02

  Let me go to what Craig and I know, we know sports. And so, you know, I've saw coaches try that when one person mess up, the whole team suffers, right? And then I've saw, you know, teams where the best player on the team is exempt from what the others have to do. And so, one, I don't know if it's the right answer to this, right? But what I do know, when it comes to the bending of the team, what we've responded more to is when we all get the same punishments. When, when this, you know, and, and I've been on teams where we had the big three and the little 12. I've had teams where we haven't.

• 1:00:26Speaker 02

  And when three is pushed up and others are not, you feel some resentment there. And you can see it and feel it. And so then it becomes on the leaders to like have to go back and like, no, I'm not. And so I think from a sports standpoint, just, you know, when it comes to the parenting side of it is the work will show, right? If, if coaches treating us all the same, how do I get? How do I get more is gonna, I'm gonna do more work. And so I think when it comes to parenting, you know, it's coming in, understanding that they're all individual. But, you know, here's the, here's the rules and here's the regulations. And you're gonna show me what you deserve and what you should have. Not, you know, not anything else. And it's gonna be from your work.

• 1:01:09Speaker 02

  And that's kind of how, you know, I approached a relationship with, you know, I've had sons since I was 23, all the way down to COVID six. I approach a relationship with each one of them as individuals, but also too. Uh, I love Kev, that's my baby, but I'm on her too. Because your work has to show. You want certain things. Um, if not, man, we don't get those. And so I go.

• 1:01:29Speaker 03

  We just had this, this.

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, we just had.

• 1:01:32Speaker 03

  Heated discussion the other day, you know, cause he's never raised girls. Yeah. And I grew up with three girls. Yeah. And you can see the, how, how our father spoke to us and how he, the tones he used. And the analogies, how it's impacted all of us to this day when it comes to the men in our lives. And the choices we've made surrounding men.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:01:55Speaker 03

  And so I'm like, okay, feels a little harsh, feels a little harsh. Mm hmm. But also I'm trying to figure out what is the balance? Like, how do you break them of a habit without breaking them? Yeah. And it's a very delicate balance and each kid is so different, so different. Um, and Kev, like, you know, I came in, I came into the rescue and wrong answer, wrong answer. And he came back to bite me very fast. Karma came so fast. And what, I don't remember what I said to her that caused the, her to be staring me down all day Sunday.

• 1:02:30Speaker 02

  I don't remember.

• 1:02:31Speaker 03

  I told her to, to, I don't know, share, stop doing something. We had, we had a little playdate or whatever. And she was like.

• 1:02:43Speaker 03

  She gave you the, she gave you the look. Hours, hours. She's on the trampoline across the yard.

• 1:02:50Craig Robinson?

  So is it, so is, is, is it different? You can tell, you can coach her a certain way, but you can't?

• 1:02:59Speaker 02

  I don't know if I can, I, I am.

• 1:03:01Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  I am, and it, and it has to start, you know, and she's six. And so, and I'm her basketball coach right now, right? I'm the one who's training her and I told her mom, I said, her and I relationship is gonna be a little different.

• 1:03:13Craig Robinson?

  Different.

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  Because the things I'm gonna have, the things she's gonna have to do to wanna be a great athlete. When she say, oh, I wanna be better than Angie Reese.

• 1:03:21Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:03:21Speaker 02

  I hear you. And so the things you're gonna, that you're gonna have to do, you're not gonna want to do. And so, yeah, my tone gonna be a little different to your mom's. You know, I'm gonna look at, our conversation's gonna be a little different. And so, um, I, I believe from my, my, you know. I understand, and she respects it, you know. She respects the way that I communicate, but she don't like it. But I can see her right away, when we get done with that moment, she comes, we hug, we don't miss a beat. She's not staring me down, we on the couch. So it's a different dynamic that we have. Not saying her mom needs to have that dynamic.

• 1:03:53Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 1:03:53Speaker 02

  But, yeah, this is just, this is how this is gonna go.

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  I'm coached that.

• 1:03:58Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah. But to get back to Charlotte, it really feels like she should be focused first on her relationship with her sister.

• 1:04:09Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I think we all agree on that, yeah. Because that's the thing she can control, right? And control is a strong word, but it's the, it's the closest and most real relationship in this dynamic, you know? So I think we all, we all agree at this table, in our opinion.

• 1:04:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:04:27Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:28Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:30Speaker 03

  I want to, I want to be there for like Easter.

• 1:04:32Michelle Obama?

  I know, really.

• 1:04:33Speaker 03

  Even the next family gathering, I want to know what advice she took, what direction she went in.

• 1:04:38Michelle Obama?

  I know.

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  I don't know about advice.

• 1:04:40Michelle Obama?

  Right, really. She's like, they were all wrong. It's okay, Charlotte.

• 1:04:44Craig Robinson?

  This is the perfect time to figure out some tips that we can give Charlotte to navigate through this.

• 1:04:51Michelle Obama?

  Oh my gosh, okay.

• 1:04:51Craig Robinson?

  But the first, the first tip that we all agreed on is that work on your relationship with your sister, though. So, so that's one.

• 1:05:00Michelle Obama?

  And just the sister relationship.

• 1:05:02Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 1:05:02Michelle Obama?

  Not that I'm taking care of you, I'm gonna fix it, I'm gonna, it's just you and me just being.

• 1:05:10Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah. And any, any, anything else come to mind?

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  She said space, we talk, we're talking about space.

• 1:05:17Michelle Obama?

  Space.

• 1:05:17Speaker 02

  Talking about space.

• 1:05:18Michelle Obama?

  Space.

• 1:05:18Speaker 02

  That's a good tip. Similes needed.

• 1:05:21Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:21Speaker 03

  And also, Charlotte, this is a good, you know, time to be a little introspective, like, is there something that you are doing, Charlotte, that could be the thing that doesn't allow your sister to want to, to tell you? As my husband has pointed out numerous times with me and my little sister. I had to check myself because I'm not, I'm not the warm and fuzzy, come to me with your problems. I'm, I'm the person you come to when you're ready to solve it. But the listening and the, you know, getting to know like how this, you know, the situation started. No, that's not me. But I had to check myself. Why didn't you tell me anything? Maybe it's the tone that you're speaking. And I had to come to have a come to Jesus with myself.

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  Or maybe it's what we talk about, right? Like sometimes, and a good friend of us told us this, Lauren, she came over and told us this. Sometime when people tell you stuff, they just want you to listen. They don't really want your advice sometimes. And I think it's trying to find like, do you want, like, and we had this comment, do you want my advice? Or do you just want me to listen? And sometimes because of our positions, we give us so much advice. Charlotte's sister may not want your advice. She just may want you to just be there, listen. Yeah. You know, and not always give your two cents.

• 1:06:34Michelle Obama?

  Excellent.

• 1:06:35Craig Robinson?

  Anything else, any more tips?

• 1:06:37Michelle Obama?

  No, I think that's pretty thorough. I think the overall, my message to the listening audience is, let's start with the thinking about how we parent our, our, our children as siblings. That, you know, you know, what, what choices as parents are we making? That can affect that dynamic? And is that something that, that we as parents can look at in terms of how we talk to our children? How we compare them, how we set them up? Because if we want our kids to have this foundation and this relationship going forward, it, it starts when they're little. And it, and it oftentimes is, is very impacted by how parents parent.

• 1:07:22Michelle Obama?

  And that's just as important as what you do to the individual is how do you, how do, how do you create the bond among your children? That, that requires work and thought.

• 1:07:35Speaker 03

  And time.

• 1:07:35Michelle Obama?

  And intention.

• 1:07:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, consistency.

• 1:07:39Michelle Obama?

  Well, you guys, thank you for that.

• 1:07:40Craig Robinson?

  Thank you. Thank you, guys. Giving us a lot to think about.

• 1:07:43Michelle Obama?

  No, really.

• 1:07:45Craig Robinson?

  Touching on some things? Yeah. No, it's great. Thank you. And able to help Charlotte.

• 1:07:49Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 1:07:50Craig Robinson?

  No, this is great. You guys are the best.

• 1:07:52Michelle Obama?

  Appreciate it. And good luck with all the, all the things.

• 1:07:56Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:56Michelle Obama?

  And stay ready to go.

• 1:07:58Craig Robinson?

  We stay ready, so we don't got to say get the A. Ready. It's go time. It's go time.

• 1:08:25Craig Robinson?

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