The scam queen of the Philippines

Earlier this year, we took a deep dive into the seedy underbelly of the scam centres of Cambodia and Myanmar. And there was one story that our producer, Pat Sunderland, uncovered that we couldn't really fit in. It's the story of a beloved mayor whose fall from grace changed the political landscape of the Philippines. Follow If You're Listening on the ABC Listen app https://radio.abc.net.au/help/apps. Check out our series on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDTPrMoGHssAfgMMS3L5LpLNFMNp1U_Nq

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  Hi, it's Sam Hawley from ABC News Daily, the podcast that brings you one big story affecting your world each weekday in just 15 minutes.

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• 0:46Speaker 03

  G'day, Matt Bevan here. This is If You're Listening. You might remember earlier this year, we took a deep dive into the seedy underbelly of the scam centres of Cambodia and Myanmar. Well, there was one story that our producer, Pat Sunderland, uncovered during the writing of that episode that we really couldn't fit in. It's the story of a beloved local mayor whose fall from grace changed the political landscape of the Philippines. I don't know the story of Mayor Alice Guo, but Pat Sunderland does, and he's here to give us the details. But I should say, he's no longer a producer for If You're Listening. He's just started a new job producing global roaming, which is very exciting. G'day, Pat.

• 1:23Speaker 04

  G'day, Matt. How are you?

• 1:31Speaker 04

  Yes, it's very exciting, but I'm very sad to be leaving the show. It's been an absolute blast. And the only reason that I'm not staying on is because I've been found to be pocketing office supplies, which is a shame. I didn't think anyone knew about that.

• 1:43Speaker 03

  Can't be stealing the If You're Listening mugs. Those things are very, very well sought after, as you know. Look, I'm sure we'll get you back whenever you have good stories to tell us, like this one. This takes place in the town of Bam Ban. Am I pronouncing that right? In the Philippines?

• 1:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, Bam Ban, like Flintstones.

• 2:01Speaker 03

  What can you tell me about Bam Ban? Because I followed Filipino politics very, very closely during the Rodrigo Duterte era.

• 2:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:11Speaker 03

  And I covered it quite extensively, but haven't dipped in all that much since he left office. Where is Bam Ban? When is this story? What are we talking about?

• 2:21Speaker 04

  This is a story that starts around 2021. Bam Ban is not a particularly big town. It's no surprise that you wouldn't have heard about it. It's a population of around 80,000. So decent size for an Australian town. It's sort of a wogga wogga and a half, or a wogga wogga wogga, but not particularly. It's in Tarlac, in the province of Tarlac, just up in the North Island.

• 2:41Speaker 03

  The main island of the Philippines, the largest island.

• 2:44Speaker 04

  So it's not a particularly well-off town. It's fairly undeveloped when we're talking 2021. It had a bridge that played a big part in a war, but not the kind of big part that makes international visitors come visit. Not particularly well known. But the fortunes of Bam Ban changed in 2021. As you would well know from your time following Philippine politics, you need to be in the right family. Like, politics from pretty much the federal to the local is made up of largely the same, you know, political dynasties.

• 3:13Speaker 03

  Yes, yes, very heavily dynasty-based, yes. And they all have nicknames, yes.

• 3:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly. But in Bam Ban in 2021, something unusual happened, which is a mayoral candidate rose to prominence that was not from any particular family. No one really knew her. She was a local Bam Ban girl, didn't make much of a name for herself. Her name was Alice Guo. And since growing up, she had started a few businesses and decided to run for mayor. She had quite a good campaign. She was quite a charismatic sort of character. She just got right over the line. About 500 votes made the difference in her campaign, but she won and started to become a real local character as the mayor of Bam Ban. She would have these Alice Guo logos on her shirt that were done in sort of the Disney font.

• 4:01Speaker 04

  You'd probably get sued for it if you tried it in. She'd dress in hot pink. She'd bring a little Pomeranian around. In fact, I have a little video for you just to give you a vibe. It's her campaign vlogs that she would do, both during her campaign and after she became mayor.

• 4:14Speaker 05

  Magandang umaga po. Good morning po, Kabangban. Good morning din daw po, sabi ni Cash. Cash, good morning.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  Oh, my goodness. Okay, so we're starting with her in bed with her Pomeranian?

• 4:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, the Pomeranian named Cash is a, is a big part of it. But yeah, it's like loud music. She's, she's clearly got like a visual style. There's all these shots of her at concerts and at local events and stuff. Everyone loves her. She's, dress is really nice.

• 4:40Speaker 03

  She's quite young, too.

• 4:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, she's very young. She was just popular. People liked her. It wasn't just her style. Under her mayorship, like, she did a lot of sort of giveaways and stuff like that. She would donate books to kids at the start of the school year. At Christmas, she would give food to local families. She would give out free medical, free dental checkups, free rabies vaccinations for pets and stuff, which was quite a big deal, especially in a poorer part of the Philippines.

• 5:04Speaker 03

  She's giving out vouchers. She's not doing the dental checkups.

• 5:06Speaker 04

  She's not going around looking at people's teeth and injecting dogs.

• 5:10Speaker 03

  Okay, right. Okay, okay.

• 5:11Speaker 04

  That would be cool. If she's your mayor, she shows up with a giant syringe.

• 5:14Speaker 03

  Looking at this video, she has strong sort of influencer vibes. She's like an Instagram influencer who has become mayor of this small town.

• 5:20Speaker 04

  Exactly. Yeah, yeah. In the start of a runner's mayor, investment really kicked off for Bam Ban. They got a McDonald's for the first time, which the locals were very excited about. She got an award from the Federal Department for Local Government, a seal of good local governance, which, you know, I'm sure I don't need to tell you is quite a big deal. And for all accounts, was after winning a very slight majority to win the election, quickly became very, very popular.

• 5:43Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 5:43Speaker 04

  Until June 2024, just a couple of years into her term, when the police came and they arrested her, they arrested her vice mayor, and they arrested seven other of the 12 councillors.

• 5:55Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. They've arrested the entire council. Okay, basically.

• 5:58Speaker 04

  They've effectively shut down the government of Bam Ban.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  Okay, that's unexpected.

• 6:03Speaker 04

  It is unexpected. It was a complete surprise. And to explain what she was charged with, I have to go into a brief tangent about pogo's. And I ain't talking about the sticks, brother.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  Okay, right. Okay, yep, go on.

• 6:16Speaker 04

  No, a pogo is the term for a Philippines offshore gaming operator. These were these entities throughout Philippines that got really big during COVID, that were essentially gambling hubs for offshore gambling only. They were not allowed to service local Filipino people. They were exclusively for running online casinos and stuff like that for overseas people. Now, in the laws of the Philippines, these were not allowed to cater to people in countries where gambling was illegal. That was not allowed. But in practice, these were Chinese casinos. These were exclusively for Chinese people to gamble online.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  I was gonna say, why would you have an offshore casino if gambling is legal in your country?

• 7:00Speaker 04

  It's a very, it's a very good question.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  It's really a paradox there.

• 7:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:04Speaker 03

  Saying that it's an offshore casino that can only cater to countries that have legalized gambling, doesn't make any sense, really. But okay. So these are basically just websites with gaming operations on them.

• 7:17Speaker 04

  Yeah. But in the same way that it did not bear up to the scrutiny of me just explaining it in a sentence, these pogo's were quite infamous for skirting the law. And as we kind of saw in the episode on Myanmar and Cambodia, these places that were originally started as gambling hubs, very quickly dipped their toes into cryptocurrency and then, yeah, further into more and more scams. Now, this dispute occurred because a compound in Bam Ban, one of the newly built ones, was found to be a pogo that was operating pretty shonkily. So in 2022, the licence for the pogo to operate was cancelled, and it just kept operating. In 2023, it got raided for cryptocurrency scams. There were some 800 arrests in that

• 8:02Speaker 04

  compound alone, and it just kept operating. And in 2024, they raided it again, and this time discovered massive evidence of human trafficking, that the people involved in this compound were not there by choice. They'd been tricked there. They were in predatory contracts, what have you.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  Were they Filipinos or?

• 8:20Speaker 04

  Some of them were, but as is the modus operandi of these places, a lot of them weren't. A lot of them were from China. A lot of them were from Myanmar and Cambodia. A lot of them were from African countries, you know, just people that were essentially tricked there.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 8:32Speaker 04

  Now, there are a few reasons why this pogo arrest then reflected onto Alice Guo. First reason was her car was found on the premises, a car registered in her name. Another reason was that there was an electricity bill that had her name in it that was supplying electricity to the compound. But I think the most convincing way is if you just see a picture of this giant compound.

• 8:55Speaker 03

  What have we got here? You've sent me a picture of quite a large compound, a lot of buildings in it. It looks almost like a very large high school or a sort of a resort complex even. It's right behind the town hall.

• 9:10Speaker 03

  Like the town hall's there on the street and then like behind it is this compound. To play devil's advocate here,

• 9:18Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 9:19Speaker 03

  If the compound is literally behind the town hall,

• 9:23Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 9:24Speaker 03

  Couldn't that explain why her car was on the compound? Like, wouldn't she just potentially have been looking for a park?

• 9:30Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 9:31Speaker 03

  And she's parked in the compound and then walked to her job at the town hall?

• 9:36Speaker 04

  It's a very good argument. This was one of the arguments that Alice Guo brought in her defence when the trial started for this pogo. Because

• 9:44Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 9:45Speaker 04

  Like you say, when you look at the compound, it's quite big. There are swimming pools, there are big hotels,

• 9:50Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 9:50Speaker 04

  where the people operating these things were run. And there were massive halls filled with people. You might ask, how did this sort of operate without being discovered earlier for such a massive compound? To which I would say that at the same time that Alice Guo was arrested, the entire police force of Banban was fired. Fifty police officers

• 10:10Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 10:10Speaker 04

  and the, and the chief were all fired from the town when this trial began.

• 10:16Speaker 03

  So basically, the national government, the central Philippines government,

• 10:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:21Speaker 03

  has showed up and gone, alright, town of Banban, mob rule. We're taking everybody who runs the town.

• 10:27Speaker 04

  When a town is operating so illegally that they just institute the purge onto it. They just go,

• 10:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:32Speaker 04

  Well, look, all crime is legal until we can figure this out.

• 10:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

• 10:36Speaker 04

  But yes, you're right. A car being parked on the premises, that's not a smoking gun.

• 10:39Speaker 03

  No.

• 10:39Speaker 04

  And the fact that your name is in the power bill. Alice Guo said that, you know, she used to own the land there before she sold it to the compound owners who it turns out were engaged in some shocking illegal behaviour. Who knew?

• 10:49Speaker 03

  Hmm hmm hmm.

• 10:49Speaker 04

  Plausibly, that could have explained it. That could have done enough. But some irregularities came out during the trial. So Senator Sherwin Gachalian, a Filipino senator who led some of the increase. There's a bit of audio there.

• 11:02Speaker 06

  It was very difficult, to be honest, in the beginning because we were holding a birth certificate that was presumably authentic. But there were a lot of red flags. For example, the late registration process. She registered her birth certificate when she was already 19 years old. Another red flag there was the name of her mother, Amelia Lial. We were looking for her birth certificate, marriage certificate. We couldn't find it as well.

• 11:28Speaker 03

  Okay, so now there's some mystery about her birth certificate and marriage certificate. Her birth certificate was registered when she was 19.

• 11:35Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 11:36Speaker 03

  I wasn't expecting to be getting into sort of Obama truthrism.

• 11:39Speaker 04

  Well,

• 11:40Speaker 03

  birth certificate stuff here.

• 11:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, neither particularly were the senators that were doing this. This just sort of started off purely as an investigation into the criminality of the pogos and to what extent that the mayor was in on it.

• 11:52Speaker 03

  Hmm hmm.

• 11:53Speaker 04

  But as they started to try and verify even just basic facts about her life, they came into a number of strange irregularities. Alice Guo's story was always that she was born to a Filipino Chinese father who had an illegitimate relationship with a Filipino housemaid and she was born. She did not have a birth certificate, which was not unusual for the Philippines to not be given a birth certificate when you're born. A lot of people applied later in life to get one.

• 12:18Speaker 03

  Particularly in the 90s. So Philippines is very rapidly developed, but it wasn't super functional in the 80s and 90s. But yeah, okay.

• 12:26Speaker 04

  Entirely. But when you would do that application, you would usually say, yeah, look, here's my school records from when I was a kid. Here's my parents' birth certificate. And she couldn't supply any of these to a satisfactory degree. And every time they would ask her questions about where she went to school, where she grew up, all these things, she would say that she couldn't recall.

• 12:45Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 12:46Speaker 04

  The kind of answer that politicians give when they're asked about the intricacies of when a decision was made or what, but it's about her life. So she started to become sort of memified by the Filipino public. She started to get a bit more attention. They would do great stuff like Photoshop her onto posters of hit Filipino comedies such as My Annesia Girl, which I've just sent you a picture of, which is sort of the Filipino 51st Dates.

• 13:09Speaker 03

  Hmm, okay.

• 13:10Speaker 04

  It's a pretty good Photoshop, I've got to say.

• 13:11Speaker 03

  No, it's not.

• 13:16Speaker 04

  Ah, yeah, sure, you can see the other person's hair behind her head, but.

• 13:20Speaker 03

  This is like not even Photoshop, this is paint.

• 13:22Speaker 04

  You've seen my Photoshop's, you know what quality I'm used to. So when they do interview some people who knew her as a younger woman, they have some interesting contradictions to what she claimed about her life. For example, she claimed that she speaks fluent English and fluent Filipino, as most people in the Philippines do, and very little Mandarin. And people who knew her younger said, well, actually, a Filipino didn't seem very good and her English was even worse, but she spoke excellent Mandarin.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  What?

• 13:48Speaker 04

  She spoke in excellent Mandarin her whole life.

• 13:50Speaker 03

  What?

• 13:51Speaker 04

  And they discover, around the time of the trial starting, they discover a record of a woman who's applying for some sort of official recognition in a different part of the Philippines, who shares her name and her birth date. Another Alice Lial Guo, also born on June 12th, 1986, on the other side of the country in the Philippines.

• 14:14Speaker 03

  And there's a photo and they look totally different. To be clear, this is very much different people.

• 14:19Speaker 04

  This leads to a moment that really sort of changes everything and changes the whole tenor of the trial and the investigation, which is at one point Senator Gachalian, who we heard from before, asks, okay, Alice, you don't have any record of your history and you seem to have a lot more history in China than you do in the Philippines. And you have come here and gotten into local government and just started a giant compound where you run these online scams, or at least we're investigating that connection. You wouldn't happen to be a, you wouldn't happen to be a Chinese spy, would you?

• 14:53Speaker 03

  Uh huh, yeah.

• 14:54Speaker 04

  And, you know, to her credit, she identifies it.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  I thought you were about to say, well, as it so happens, yes, I am.

• 14:59Speaker 04

  See, she comes to it. She then pulls out her next gambit.

• 15:05Speaker 07

  Good evening. Social media is on fire over news that broke just this afternoon. Alice Guo, who has of course become a household name by now, being the subject of a large manhunt, is apparently already in Malaysia, according to Senator Rizal Tiveros.

• 15:19Speaker 03

  Okay, so she's fled the country?

• 15:21Speaker 04

  Fled the country. She decides she doesn't want to sit for any more investigations. She doesn't quite like where the questions are leading.

• 15:26Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 15:26Speaker 04

  So she gets on a van, drives to a port, boards a boat to Malaysia. She ends up being gone for well over a month. She goes missing in July. In September, she's found by Indonesian police in Indonesia and brought back to the Philippines.

• 15:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, I wouldn't have gone to Indonesia. They'll extradite you back to the Philippines. They're, you know.

• 15:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. And again, just to talk about the way that this story has now captured the public's imagination, President Marcos makes a public statement, announced the finding and capture of Alice Guo.

• 15:56Speaker 06

  On or about 1 o'clock AM for September, Alice Guo was arrested in Tangerang City, Jakarta, Indonesia. I congratulate all law enforcement personnel who made this apprehension possible.

• 16:11Speaker 04

  So the investigation goes on and now, you know, the question of her involvement in the pogos is essentially being treated as solved and that, yes, she was involved. And now it is almost purely about the potential of her having hidden Chinese siblings that she didn't acknowledge when she first came into the Philippines and if she was ever there at all, high school records and things like that. It is basically not going very well for her.

• 16:33Speaker 03

  Hmm hmm.

• 16:33Speaker 04

  But then the final nail in the coffin is hammered in. Because at this time, Al Jazeera, completely unrelated to this, to this process, they do a documentary where they interview a man called Shu Ji Zhang.

• 16:47Speaker 03

  That sounds very Chinese.

• 16:48Speaker 04

  It is very Chinese. This man, so Chinese, he didn't even claim to be Filipino.

• 16:52Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 16:52Speaker 04

  Shu Ji Zhang is a Chinese businessman who was also arrested under charges of being involved with cybercrime, you know, these kind of scam compounds.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  Hmm hmm.

• 17:03Speaker 04

  And after he was arrested, he immediately claimed asylum and claimed that he was a Chinese spy and that he could not be returned to China because he would just be, you know, either executed or thrown into a dungeon never to be seen again.

• 17:14Speaker 03

  So it's defected, right?

• 17:15Speaker 04

  Exactly, yeah, yeah. This was his sort of defence. And so Al Jazeera do a interview with him and in that story, someone pops up.

• 17:24Speaker 07

  He allows us to take a look. One file in particular catches our attention.

• 17:30Speaker 03

  It's her!

• 17:31Speaker 07

  It's a dossier about Guo Hua Ping or Alice Guo, former fugitive and embattled ex-mayor of a small town in the Philippines.

• 17:42Speaker 07

  Now in police custody, Guo is being investigated for alleged ties to scam operations and money laundering. She's also accused of being a Chinese spy.

• 17:55Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 17:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:59Speaker 03

  What?

• 17:59Speaker 04

  So while they're just looking on the laptop of all of his various files, someone just goes, hang on a second. I'm pretty sure that's the lady that's currently famously on trial in the Philippines for being a Chinese spy.

• 18:11Speaker 03

  Oh, my goodness.

• 18:12Speaker 04

  And you've got her picture and her dossier on your laptop under the name Guo Haping.

• 18:19Speaker 03

  And her details, yeah.

• 18:20Speaker 04

  They literally play that clip of the Al Jazeera documentary during one of the, you know, Senate investigations that she's there at. And they basically play it for her and go, so what do you reckon about that? That pretty much makes it seem like you're a Chinese spy. And, you know, she claims, I've never met this man before. He claimed that he had helped, you know, the Chinese government and had helped pay for her campaign funds. She said, no, it's not true. But that was essentially it.

• 18:47Speaker 03

  It's interesting. Why would she, as a spy?

• 18:51Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 18:52Speaker 03

  I can understand why a spy would want to get into politics in the Philippines. I can understand why a spy would want to become a prominent figure.

• 19:00Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 19:01Speaker 03

  I can't understand why a spy would want to create like a Chinese gambling scam centre that preys upon Chinese people. It doesn't seem like someone who's working in the direct control of the Chinese Ministry of State Security.

• 19:18Speaker 04

  Well, I'll say that to my understanding, this compound maybe didn't necessarily have a lot of Chinese people specifically.

• 19:24Speaker 03

  But it was for Chinese gamblers, which is something that the Chinese government doesn't necessarily want people to be doing. And if the Chinese government wanted people to be doing it, that they'd set their own

• 19:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:32Speaker 03

  casinos up. So, yeah, mysterious and fascinating. And so she, what, imprisoned or?

• 19:37Speaker 04

  When all the dust had cleared and the investigation was over, Alice Guo was sentenced to life imprisonment.

• 19:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 19:43Speaker 04

  She was sentenced to life imprisonment, interestingly, for human trafficking. They did not end up confirming any of the espionage charges that later came out of the investigation.

• 19:51Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 19:52Speaker 04

  But what they did do is they made a formal proclamation saying, Alice Guo is not this woman. This woman is Guo Haping. They cancelled her Filipino identity, essentially, thereby making her one of the few female mayors of a town that has never had a female mayor because her rule was retroactively considered nonvalid. If you now look her up on Wikipedia, she is the de facto mayor or was the de facto mayor of the town.

• 20:17Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, okay.

• 20:18Speaker 04

  And the other sort of impact that this trial and the intention that it had was this announcement by Bong Bong Marcos.

• 20:25Speaker 03

  President Marcos, yep.

• 20:26Speaker 07

  Disguising as legitimate entities, their operations have ventured into illicit areas furthest from gaming, such as financial scamming, money laundering, prostitution, human trafficking, kidnapping, brutal torture, even murder. The grave abuse and disrespect to our system of laws must stop. Effective today, all pogos are banned.

• 20:51Speaker 04

  All right. So something, something good came out of it. But you're right that there was never quite a full smoking gun. She has not yet admitted to it. Was Alice Guo truly a Chinese spy working to take down the Filipino government? Or was she made a patsy of the Filipino political system that was trying to crack down on these embarrassing pogos in their country? The other thing I should say is, in the months since all of this has happened, in the months since her conviction, since, you know, for all intents and purposes, in the public opinion of the Filipino people, a mayor was discovered to be a Chinese spy and sent to prison for life. There's been a few outlets that have gone to the town of Bam Ban and asked the people what they thought of the whole shebang. And the people want her back.

• 21:35Speaker 04

  She is missed as the mayor of the town. The running consensus is, I guess she was a spy, but I mean, we got free dental checkups, I got to vaccinate my pets.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  Hmm. Very much the New South Wales state government approach. I'm not saying anything about the current government, but just historically, if you're doing a good job, you can have a little bit of dodginess as a little trait. Good story, Pat, fascinating. The next Filipino election is coming up in 2028. So I imagine that we'll be paying a lot of attention to the situation there. The current president, Bong Bong Marcos, is term limited. He will not be able to run again. The vice president, who is Rodrigo de Torte's daughter, is now kind of in an open war against Bong Bong Marcos. And it's all very messy and complicated, as it often is in the Philippines.

• 22:22Speaker 04

  Yes, and it certainly looks like the long era of dynastic rule in the Philippines is in no danger of ending.

• 22:28Speaker 03

  Absolutely not, no.

• 22:29Speaker 04

  But, you know, hey, sometimes those up and comers out of the blue are just as dodgy, so.

• 22:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you're going to go with it outside it, make sure they're not a Chinese spy.

• 22:38Speaker 04

  If there's one thing that de Torte's daughter has, it is a birth certificate.

• 22:41Speaker 03

  Yes, that's right. That's absolutely right. Unquestionable. Pat, thanks very much.

• 22:45Speaker 04

  No worries. Thanks for having me.

• 22:54Speaker 03

  Something you might not know about me is that I have four children. We pretty regularly go on quite long car trips and keeping them entertained can be tricky, which is why kids podcasts are so great. ABC Kids Listen has some very fun and secretly educational podcasts. Your kids can unearth adventures with Costa on Gardening Australia Junior, explore big questions with Imagine This, or learn about the world with News Time. There's also great stuff for helping kids get to sleep. I have used that particular part of the ABC Kids Listen catalogue quite extensively. All these podcasts and more are available for free in the Kids tab of ABC Listen or on the ABC Kids Listen app. I'll catch you on Thursday.