From dope dealer to hope dealer: Gaz Wright Pt. 2

Gaz Wright picks up where the war stories ended in part one of his chat with Gary on I Catch Killers. In this episode, they get into the story that really matters - how one man crawled out of a back bedroom in a shot-up trap house, white-knuckled his way through heroin withdrawal, and rebuilt himself from nothing into one of Australia's most unlikely voices for change. With nothing but the clothes on his back and his Staffy, Bonnie, Gaz boarded a one-way flight to Cairns and started over. He handed in his first-ever résumé at a bottle shop, filmed it on a mate's suggestion, and watched it go viral, a moment that would change everything. What followed was the birth of Hope Cartel, and a social media following of over one million people, built on radical honesty and hard earned redemption. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The public has had a long-held fascination with detectives. Detectives see a side of life the average person is never exposed to. I spent 34 years as a cop. For 25 of those years, I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world.

• 0:46Speaker 00

  If you listen to part one of my conversation with Gaz Wright, you'll know just how dark his life had gotten. From feared underworld figure to desperate junkie. His enemies smelt blood in the water and they came for him. Stabbings, beatings, gunshots. Karma doesn't pull punches. And with serious jail time looming, Gaz faced a choice. Continue the downward spiral or leave his life of violence and crime behind. Against all odds, he chose the latter. This is the story of how he did it.

• 1:18Speaker 00

  Gaz Wright, welcome back to part two of I Catch Killers.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 1:22Speaker 00

  Part one, not much fun, taking you through all the heavy stuff. How does it feel reliving it?

• 1:27Speaker 01

  You know, I spoke to you prior to the interview. You know, I said, you know, some people have invited me to come on their podcast and they just want to hear the war stories. They want to hear the jail stabbings and the shootings and, you know, all the stuff. At the start of my, I call it a healing journey, but some people would say, you know, social media journey. That's all I had to offer was war stories. It just doesn't do it for me anymore. You know, it doesn't land, it doesn't stimulate me. You know, I get no endorphin hits from talking about the old life. I understand it's part of my story. I've got to sometimes tell it, but it doesn't interest me, man. There's no passion for that life anymore. It's just part of my story. And like I said, I acknowledge that, you know, it is part of my story and I wouldn't change it because it's made me who I am today.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  But what I'm doing is is way bigger than anything I've ever done from the streets.

• 2:17Speaker 00

  I understand that I I look out in the true crime space because people are fascinated with it. But I think a large majority of people are fascinated with true crime have never really experienced it. So I understand that they want to look into the the dark side of the world and see what what's going on. I find the interest in looking a little bit deeper and seeing what comes out of it. I've I've seen the consequences of crime in the the most horrible ways. But seeing the people that have come through that world, they're the things that rock my boat too. How how people can turn their life around.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, because some people, especially you would come from, you know, a lot of police officers have this mentality. Once a crim, always a crim. I'm pretty sure there's probably some ones out there that still think, ah, it's just a front. It's just a throw off. He's probably washing money or who who knows what their thoughts are. But man, I know in my, you know, the truth is in my heart, I know my journey, I know my story. No one knows it better than me. And, you know, I've learnt to love and not hate, and I've learnt to help and not hurt. It's a beautiful thing, man. I can honestly say I'm half a healed human and I'm I'm doing the right thing, not the wrong thing. And it's all about leaving a legacy, you know, and resetting my karmic debt. I know when I leave this world, I'm going to leave it with done more right than wrong.

• 3:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  You know, yeah, there was some some bad times and yeah, I did some wrong things. I was a nasty person, I'm not going to lie about it. But there there's going to be a majority of being a good person that overrides that.

• 3:36Speaker 00

  Well, I I encourage people if they can turn their life around. And I know what you're saying, and in in the cops is a fairly, you know, black and white thinking. We're we're doing a job, we're putting the bad guys away. And then you move on to the next thing. But I think society, because now I'm I'm a member of society, I'm not in in the cops anymore. It benefits if people can turn their life around. Because who better off having having you healing yourself and contributing back to society that's still, I can't going to go harder. And in the world of crime.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  And then it comes to that old saying, you know, people want to be relatable. Like, it's okay, we go through a divorce and you're speaking to someone about going through a divorce. That person's never been through a divorce.

• 4:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Going through addiction and you're speaking to someone about your addiction, that person person's never been addicted to drugs. Makes no sense, you know, if we've gone through issues in life or we're trying to, you know, grow, you want to talk to someone that's been through what you're going through.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Well, I'm a big believer in using life experiences to educate people, whether it's at the juvenile stage, which is probably most important, where you can steer them in the right direction, or whether it's at, yeah, adult prison. And you're an example of someone that can turn their life around when you're at a low point. You've had the highs of the gangster, the lows of being a junkie, and you're sitting here and doing something worthwhile. We've got a couple of videos here with you getting your first job, because I think that's important.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  You've pulled the old ones up.

• 5:06Speaker 00

  Won't play at all, and we'll cut this into the podcast, but I just want you to have a look at this and talk me through it.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  So yeah, quick job update. The other day, on the weekend, I was getting a couple of beers from the bottle just around the corner from my joint, from the drive-through, and I asked them to do any jobs. They said, yeah, they're looking for work. So that'd be good. They wanted my resume. You know, I wasn't ready to apply for a job. I just thought I'd pop in there and see what they'd said. And then so now I'm going to get in my resume. So anyway, yeah, that sounds good. That'd be good. That'd be a good gig, that one. I got the job. Yes, I'm wrapped. I got the gig at the bottle shop. They invited me to join the team. Called me up today. Went down there. It's all good. You know,

• 5:54Speaker 01

  it is what it is, but fucking, I'm not going to lie, it's a bit daunting. Yeah, it's a bit daunting, it is. I don't know, the unknown's always fucking scary, isn't it? But I'm pumped. You know, it's just, it's a positive direction, you know? Positive start. You know what I mean? Leave that fucking life behind me.

• 6:15Speaker 00

  I can see the excitement on your face. Okay, you're obviously a different person from who you were then to hear. How long ago were that?

• 6:22Speaker 01

  That's four years ago.

• 6:25Speaker 00

  Look at you all proud of yourself, strutting round. You got yourself a job.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:28Speaker 00

  You've become like a civilian and paying taxes and all that sort of shit.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  The ironic thing is, the job was at a bottle shop. So, you know, I just walked away from a career of pushing poison into my community and then becoming poisoned.

• 6:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  And so like, let's be honest, alcohol is poison. It's just legal and it's run by the government.

• 6:48Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  So what was I gonna go do? You know, push poison for the government and think it was okay? My dad died from alcohol. He drank himself to death.

• 6:54Speaker 00

  Well, that's a personal aspect of it.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  So, um, yeah, I mean, I don't think that was my true calling.

• 7:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  But it's ironic when I was, there's another video when I was actually handing in the resume.

• 7:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  To the bottle shop, I rang a mate that was a little bit into social media. And he said, what are you doing? I was in Cairns at that time. So I'd gone up to Cairns to get a breath of fresh air, leave the life of addiction behind and life of crime. And um, anyway, I rang him and I said, he goes, what are you doing? I said, I'm just handing a resume to the bottle shop. And I said, I'm trying to get a gig down here, so I'll get some money in my pocket. And I said, uh, you know, what are you up to? I said, I'll come see you for a coffee when I'm done. And he goes, are you documenting this? And I said, no, should I be? He goes, whoa, ex criminal, ex drug addict, getting his first job, handing a resume. Cause social media loves that stuff. I said, oh, okay then, I didn't have a clue. It was the first time I'd made accounts. I'd never had a social, social media account was a pinch where I come from.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  And so, um, I grabbed the phone and I started recording and that, when I'm actually handing in the resume, um, it went viral. And so the ironic thing is, you know, I look back on it now, I reckon the resume into the bottle shop wasn't the real resume. It was the resume into social media. I reckon that's the truth of it. You know, that was the real path I was meant to take. And so, yeah, once I got that viral video, you know, like any opportunist, which criminals are.

• 8:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  I was gonna take it by the balls and run with it.

• 8:14Speaker 00

  And you said you didn't understand, I'm sure you, you didn't understand the impact of the social media and how it can run with.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  All I knew, as I spoke to my mate and all I knew is, he broke it down like this. He said, okay, you know, you've got a brand.

• 8:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  He said, your tattoos, that old life, you've got a story, you know, your dog, all that's what we call a social media package. You know, you can build a brand off the back of that. Said, how many people do you think are gonna show up for the next ten years and post every day? And then he goes, how many in Australia? How many people got in Australia? How many people do you actually reckon are gonna do that? A small number.

• 8:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  He goes, if you're one of those numbers, he goes, you'll kill it. So it was a no brainer. I just had to post every day from there and I have, you know, for the next four years. I've got over a million followers as a collective on social media and that's from posting every day. It was that simple in my head.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  And that's.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  Good on that, mate, for seeing the, uh, seeing the logic there. I'd like, you mentioned your dog, it's a staffy by the looks of it.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:07Speaker 00

  I got a staffy, the world's best dogs, aren't I?

• 9:10Speaker 01

  The best.

• 9:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Bonnie, she's the best. She's famous too. Yeah, yeah, I, I see some people sometimes and they're like, can I get a photo? And I say, yes, where's Bonnie? They're more interested in Bonnie than they are me, you know?

• 9:21Speaker 00

  Cool.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:22Speaker 00

  Okay, so that's, um, uh, and it's hard. Let's just talk about how hard it is to turn your life around. First of, how did you kick the, kick the drugs?

• 9:31Speaker 01

  I got to a stage where I was done, I'd broken my ankle, jumped off a roof and, and broken my ankle. So I was hobbling around. I went to the hospital.

• 9:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  The hospital said, um, you need to have that plastered maybe operated. And I said, I've got to go get on, pretty much. I'm out. I just need an X-ray.

• 9:47Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Just give me a pair of crutches. So I hobbled it off for the next six months. And in that time of, of not being able to put weight on my foot, I was addicted to drugs. I was in, you know, trap houses. I, I'd ended up in a back bedroom. The house had been shot up two nights running. So it got shot up one night and it got shot up the next. Everybody in that house had left. I was in the back bedroom and I'd woke up in the morning and the deal was I had to go get high again or else I was gonna be sick. Cause I was on heroin too, you know, and, um, I'd had enough. I just, I, I can remember thinking in my head that if I don't get clean, I'm gonna die.

• 10:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Cause I had three ODs in, in my active addiction.

• 10:28Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  Where I'd been brought back to life. You know, like I said, the stabbings, the shootings, all the stuff. I got to a time where I, I just knew if I didn't get clean, I was gonna end up dead.

• 10:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  And I I remember that morning, I thought, I can't go get on. I've been doing this for four years now. Yeah. You know, this bender went on for four years. And I thought, if I go get on again, there's another weak cycle of getting high and it moves into next one. So I rang my brother, my middle brother, um, shout out to Robbie, you know, and um, I rang him and I said, man, I've had enough. He goes, we've heard this before. I said, I've had enough, Rob. You know, I was in tears. I said, I can't do this anymore, man. I said, I'm gonna end up dead. And I I knew that I had more to offer to society, to myself, you know, my legacy, all that than going out in a back bedroom as a junkie.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  And he goes, I'm gonna ring you tomorrow. He goes, because I've heard you say this before in the last four years. He goes, I'm gonna ring you tomorrow and I'll see where you're at. And he rang me the next day, probably about twenty, twenty four hours later. Yeah. And I was in the same position. I hadn't moved. By this time, withdrawals had started to kick in. Hmm. You know, I was a mess. It's dry reaching and hadn't eaten, hadn't slept, sweating. And he goes, where are you? I said, in the same place I was yesterday morning. And he goes, are you really? I said, mate, I'm fucking, you know, I'm done. And he's like, and what, you don't want to ask me to lend you any money or anything like that? I said, no. I said, I'm fucking done, man. I said, Rob, mate, I'm I'm ready to lay down and die. Hmm. Like, that's it. I'm just done. I said, I can't do this anymore. Obviously, I was emotional, speaking to family.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  And then he goes, all right. He goes, I like the sound of this. He goes, I'm gonna give you one more day. He goes, I'm gonna ring you tomorrow morning. He goes, if you're in the same position, he goes, I'll come get you. He rang me the next morning, I was there. You know, so I'd just done forty eight hours. Yeah. And um, I was in fucking, I was in a bad spot. You know, by this time, I was cramping, diarrhea, you know, vomiting, you know, all the stuff, sweats, shakes, cramps, all the stuff. And um, he goes, I'm coming to get you. Yeah. And he came to grab me. Took me up to his house and um. Put me in a bedroom, in a, in a back room at his house and um that was it, man. I just knew I just had to survive the next two to three weeks.

• 12:44Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Just get through. There was no chance of me walking out the front door, climbing through a window and going getting on. There was not even if a bite about it because as soon as I got clean, my whole life was about to start.

• 12:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  And I just laid there, man. I just laid there. They pretty much brought me in plates of food and that was it. I, I, I took me a week to crawl to the bathroom before I could have a shower. And I just did it the old school way, a white knuckled it, as we said, dried out. And that's it, man. My life has been bliss ever since.

• 13:11Speaker 00

  Geez, I, I can see the emotion, just talking about, thinking about.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  It's a massive turning point in my life, Gary.

• 13:17Speaker 00

  It's huge.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's massive. It's huge.

• 13:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  One of the biggest demons I ever had to conquer. But I like to, I like to think I'm built, you know, I'm built right. I was built for it, you know, I, I, some people maybe would have buckled, I didn't.

• 13:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  I got clean. It was about the three week mark. I remember I was able to sit at the table now, talking with my mum would come up and my other brother would come up and we'd have a family dinner. And I'd start to, you know, get some sleep by now and you know, have a shower and start to do some pushups in the garage and take Bonnie for a walk and. You know, and then, and it would have been about the four, four, fifth week mark. I was starting to feel a lot better. I mean, I still look at those first videos, you know, and I was.

• 13:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, you got, you can see the effect of it.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it had really taken its toll on me. People in the area had thought I got sick, sick. Like people were saying, has he got cancer? Aids or something because I was that, I looked like Skeletor. No one had ever seen me that light.

• 14:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  You know, that was just skin and bones.

• 14:09Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  And people were actually like, I don't think it's drugs. I think he's actually sick, sick, like, you know? And that's how bad I looked. Anyway, um, I was sitting at the table and I remember saying, I spoke into a mate that was like into social media and he told me about this brand. And I hadn't even, I was still in Melbourne, you know?

• 14:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  And I hadn't even left yet to go get, start my journey and um, and I turned around and my family. And they remember this and I said, I might give this social media shit a crack. And they sort of, oh, yeah, of course you will, you know? But um, I'm really good at manifesting.

• 14:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  You know, when I see something, I can, I can smell it, I can feel it. I used, nine out of ten times I've been able to do this since I was a kid. I can make it happen. And so, yeah, man, um. Went up to, they, they got me a ticket, one way ticket with me and my dog.

• 14:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Flew my dog up to Cairns, nothing but the clothes on my back. My mate put me up in an Airbnb, Airbnb for a month.

• 15:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  And let's see what happens. I started documenting my life, my new life, which was left out.

• 15:06Speaker 00

  Document, documenting the journey.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Documenting the journey.

• 15:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  And um, that's it, man, wow, what a journey. You know, um, Cairns is a beautiful place up there, very grounding.

• 15:18Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  Very grounding, you know.

• 15:19Speaker 00

  Lot, lot going for it. The fact that you're documenting like that, I would imagine that's almost not a safety net, but it, it makes it harder for you to go back because, yeah, this is what I'm doing. You'd hate to lose your way on that journey.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:36Speaker 00

  Because you'd feel like a hypocrite and a weak, weak prick and everything else.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  I mean, it was keeping me accountable. It was like, oh, it was video diary.

• 15:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  It was a video diary.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  Like a journal.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Like a journal, but I'm putting it out to the world.

• 15:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, so it's.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Letting them judge.

• 15:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  You know, and just see what they do.

• 15:48Speaker 00

  There would have been a lot of naysayers, they've gone, okay, where, where is this gonna, gonna fail?

• 15:53Speaker 01

  Another junkie on social media, they were saying, this guy's cooked. Because all those videos where I was carrying on, I was like six weeks clean.

• 16:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  You know, eight weeks clean, you know, moving into three months clean type deal. So I still had a lot in my system. I had all these demons from the old life. I didn't know how to talk.

• 16:08Speaker 00

  I did a, a deep dive on you.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 16:10Speaker 00

  Uh, last night and there was a lot, that there was still a lot going on.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  When, when you're, uh.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  There was a lot of pain.

• 16:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Lot of pain in there and I, I see a hurt little boy in, in, in those videos, you know, that's what, that's what it is. But had this so much armour.

• 16:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  No one's gonna get me. I'll hurt them before they hurt me. And I couldn't even see that back then, but now I look, that's what I see and um. Yeah, that's what was coming across and I'm telling the story, still talking tough. It seemed like I was, you know, glorifying.

• 16:37Speaker 00

  You had the jail swagger of that.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looked like I was glorifying the life, but I just knew I had to show up on social media.

• 16:44Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  And turn heads my way.

• 16:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  I come from a strategic life, so I, there was a lot of method to my madness. I knew exactly what I was doing. I wanted to tell the stories because when I talked about, hey, you know, so I had a good day today, I took my dog for a walk, no one cared.

• 16:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  But I say, oh, this time I got in a punch on in prison. Hundreds of thousands of video, uh, views, you know, the video popped. So it was all about planting the seed, getting people related, well, you know, looking my way. And it was a lot of a negative attention, but as they say in that game, any attention's good attention.

• 17:12Speaker 00

  Well, you, you would have to be resilient there because there would have been a lot of, I, I would imagine a lot of people attacking you going, oh, here we go again.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, isn't the joke on them now?

• 17:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Having a, I got to prove them wrong, you know, who got the last laugh, you know?

• 17:24Speaker 00

  That's why I like, you virtually burnt the escape route away.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:28Speaker 00

  Once you started posting publicly.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:30Speaker 00

  So, uh, is that how you started to earn a living then? And, and tell us about your, your evolving into becoming a, uh, citizen.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, um, you know, the first step was, um, I started creating income, um, and that was on TikTok.

• 17:44Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  So I built a community on TikTok and I started live streaming.

• 17:47Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  And then there was this battle scene on TikTok where, you know, your community could, you know, gift you and that gift's transferring into money. And so like, you know, if we, you and me battled on TikTok, let's say you've got a community, you've got a following, I've got my community, I've got my following. They're set off in these battles and we've got a five minute round and there's times two points and all this other jargon. And then, um, you know, my community try and gift me more than your community gift you and I become the winner. And then there's a whole ranking thing, you know, so you got a, you know, top hundred every week.

• 18:16Speaker 00

  Well, if you challenge me to battle on Tic Tac, I think I'm fine.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  Tic Tac, yeah, I haven't battled in over probably about two years now.

• 18:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  But it was all part of the journey and I created an income and I created some good money, you know, um. And so from there, I, um, we moved down, back down to Victoria.

• 18:31Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  Cause I was with a mate, he, he was up there too, he'd got clean.

• 18:34Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  But that's a whole nother side of the story. And so we travelled down together. And yeah, I mean, uh, you know, I, I got my licence.

• 18:43Speaker 00

  How'd that feel for the first time, Ben, dri- driving around, knowing if the cops pull you over?

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was full on, you know, I was forty, man, and got a licence, had to sit my hours and that, yeah.

• 18:53Speaker 00

  Did you get round in your, with your own place on?

• 18:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was full on, had to have a licensed driver next to me and.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  Did you wear your P plate?

• 18:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did all the deal, yeah, I, I'm pretty, like, pretty, even my friends are telling me, you know, like today, they're like, you are so straight, you know, I wouldn't even jaywalk, man, like. They're like, we'll just park here, no, I'll get towed, I can't. You know, like, I'm pretty, pretty clean cut now. I like to do the right thing. It's my, like, I give you a lot of energy doing the right thing.

• 19:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  But anyway, um, it was fun, you know, it was all a whole new world. It's only a bank accounts and now I've just, I'm getting my tax sorted and we just paid a big tax bill and like all this stuff's new. I'm like, whoa, you know? Just got a bookkeeper on board for the business and all this stuff. It's just been a journey of learning and growth, this whole new world.

• 19:34Speaker 00

  How, how did that nourish you personally? Like, did this feel more fulfilling?

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, it was, it was exciting because it was a whole new world and I, I decided to do the right thing. And so, yeah, it was, it was, there was days where it was hard. It was a struggle because it was all foreign. It was all new to me. You know, sometimes it's scratching my head. I'm confused as fuck, you know, but, um, yeah, I mean, I've got it. We're getting it. It's, you know.

• 19:58Speaker 00

  Is there any, is there, was there any temptation or any just fleeting moment where you thought, fuck it, I'm, I'm out of here. I'm, I'm back to the old world? Did you hit that at all?

• 20:07Speaker 01

  There's been, there's been times I've been tested.

• 20:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, because that, that, that's the type of thing I'd be concerned.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  I've been challenged, but I, I, I think I'm strong enough to know. I can honestly, you know, I didn't do the whole rehab, the N A D I P deal. And, you know, Danny taught me a lot about that space. Danny was almost like a sponsor for me and I didn't even know.

• 20:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  He taught me a lot about addiction, you know, Danny Shannon, shout out. And, um.

• 20:29Speaker 00

  Let, let's, and we were having a laugh about Danny before we started recording. He's the world's happiest human being.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  He's so happy.

• 20:35Speaker 00

  I don't know how anyone can be so positive.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so like it was, that was handy, but I, um, I can honestly sit here and say, I'll never touch drugs again.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Whereas, you know, in, in the addict world, that's like, don't sell yourself short. You know, the second that you say you won't touch drugs, maybe you will.

• 20:50Speaker 00

  You'll hit the hurdle and you'll.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  It didn't work like that for me.

• 20:53Speaker 00

  There's, I've got to say, there's something about you in the, the way that you're delivering it and talking about it. It gives me the confidence because that, that's always my concern. If someone's kicked drugs, well, life gives you kicks in the guts and we're all going to get them. And whether that's something to draw you back, but there seems to be.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  As Jeffrey Morgan would say, Gary, every lesson's a blessing and I'm up for the challenge. Like, it's not going to be all sunshine and rainbows.

• 21:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  You know, there's going to be down days. There's going to be days that I'm tested. There's going to be challenges. You know, there's going to be ups and downs. I'm up for the challenge. I get it because there's only, that's where growth is. Without dark, there's no light.

• 21:27Speaker 00

  You got, uh, good people around you now?

• 21:29Speaker 01

  Got a huge support. I wouldn't know where to score if I tried. You know, like, I, I, you know, I've, I've cut some really.

• 21:36Speaker 00

  Okay, that's, I haven't heard that from someone here, but that, that, that's good. That's how far you've come from the world.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  And also I've cut some, some people off that, you know, we, you know, I'd known for thirty, forty years. I challenged a bloke a few months ago, he got out, you know, I'd known him since we were kids. And he, what are you doing? What's his social media stuff and his breathwork stuff? What's going on? And I talked to him for about twenty minutes and I thought, man, I've got to, I've got to plant a seed, I've got to, you know, see how this is going to go because this could be a liability, you know?

• 22:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  And he's talking about, as he's on the phone to me, he's walking past, go, oh man, I just walked past a mad merk, wouldn't mind jumping in that. You know, and I'm like, here we go.

• 22:14Speaker 00

  He hasn't stepped away from it.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, um, and I said, so I go, listen, if I was to, um, if I was to meet up with you.

• 22:20Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  I said, man, I haven't used in over four years now.

• 22:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  I said, if I was to meet up with you and you had something on ya, I said, would you chop us out one time, just one day out? You know, I said, and not tell no one? Like, I said, you wouldn't lag me, would ya?

• 22:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Of course I wouldn't, Gazza, mate, you deserve it.

• 22:34Speaker 00

  Says a lot, doesn't it?

• 22:35Speaker 01

  He goes, you deserve it, mate, one day out. He goes, it's only one day, mate. He goes, I'll chop you out and I wouldn't say nothing, I promise. He goes, my word's my word. I said, thanks, mate. Thanks for that. When I got off the phone, I blocked him on every fucking account known to man. WhatsApp, fucking his phone number, his social media, everything. He, the only way he could contact me is if he knocked on my front door. And I, I doubt he'd have my address. And, you know, this is a friend that I've known. We've been through thick and thin together. But I had to, I had to let go. I'm actually really good at that now. He's just cutting energy off when it doesn't serve me. And that was negative energy. He was a risk. He was a liability. He's got to go.

• 23:09Speaker 00

  I think that, that's a really powerful statement. I want to break it down a little bit because I, I see people that fall back into old habits. But what a great test on him. That's, that's clever. That's, that's clever because that tells you exactly his mindset.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 23:23Speaker 00

  Because I, I see, like, it might be friends, whether it's drugs or alcohol or whatever, and they're trying to do the right thing. And you see other people trying to drag them back in. Just come out, you know, someone, if they drink, they get in the shit because they do crazy stuff. They're not meant to drink, but they'll have friends that'll say, I just have one, you'll be right. No one will know. I hate that sort of shit.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, my brothers love a beer. Yeah, my brothers are both tradies.

• 23:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Beautiful houses, beautiful businesses, beautiful homes, kids.

• 23:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Misses, all the traditional stuff. They're pretty solid, but you know, on Grand Final Day or UFC's on or public holiday, they're smashing a six pack of Jacks. They love it. I'll be in and out on those days. You know, I'll pop in, I'll have a feed, I've got to go. Nothing against them, it's just I don't want to sit around the table for the next couple of hours and wanting it. And because you do, you think, I just one can.

• 24:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, you, you've got to, you've got to stay strong, keep that, keep that action up there. But that was wise, cutting someone, someone like that.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:16Speaker 00

  And it's hard, but you've got to protect yourself.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 24:18Speaker 00

  And.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  No one's going to jeopardize my journey, you know, and I'm on a good path now. And I say, I say, man, I love my mother before my heart, but I, and nothing, she's done nothing wrong. You know, she, she's been challenged, but I do say, one of my things I say, if my own mother was to jeopardize my journey of doing the right thing, she'd have to go.

• 24:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  It doesn't matter who it is.

• 24:38Speaker 00

  Right.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's so important. So I can honestly say that nothing's going to stop me doing the right thing in life, you know?

• 24:45Speaker 00

  What other stuff you, you're doing breathwork. Talk, talk us through that and explain what that's all about.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  What happened next was after some TikTok battles and making an income, I got a little home rental, you know? Some furniture, I got myself a little car.

• 24:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  You know, it took about eighteen months or so.

• 25:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Um, to sort of, you know, set my life up and start to live like an ordinary civilian. I then started to do merch. I created Hope Cartel.

• 25:08Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  I think it was actually Russell Mansa, rest in peace.

• 25:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:11Speaker 01

  We, um, I got labelled on social media as the hope dealer. He's no longer the dope dealer, he's the hope dealer, people used to say.

• 25:19Speaker 00

  About you on, on social, on social media.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  He used to deal dope, now he deals hope, from dope dealer to hope dealer.

• 25:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  And so I got labelled the hope dealer. And we used to do these live streams where I'd have, you know, the Jeffrey Morgans, the Russell Mansers, the Danny Shannons and we'd get, you know, all the Clint Fishers, we'd get this group together and we'd spit some wisdom about the old life being shit house and all the stuff. And I remember Russ, um, one night, he said, uh, he goes, look, I said, look at us, all a bunch of hope dealers, you know?

• 25:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  And he's like, yeah, and, and, and he's like, yeah, he goes, Hope Cartel. He just, that's what he mentioned. I said, and as soon as he said it, the light bulb moment, I thought, that is killer. Hope Cartel, that's going to be the brand. I knew straight away. I reckon within a couple of months of that, I registered that name as a business.

• 26:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  I got my brothers to help me, got an ABN registered as a business and, um, paid for the name and the business name and. And yeah, and then it started to be Hope Cartel. We built this community, Hope Cartel. Now Gary's the Hope Dealer, no longer the Dope Dealer, he's the owner of Hope Cartel. And I was doing merchandise, that was the start of Hope Cartel. I just started pumping out merchandise. To be honest, Gaz, I flipped batches of merch, like I used to flip batches of gear. You know, I, I drop a dollar for a hundred hoodies and I get a dollar back on them, you know, type deal.

• 26:31Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  And it was the same old method that I was used to.

• 26:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  But now I was.

• 26:35Speaker 00

  So you're a businessman, you're just legitimising your business.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:39Speaker 00

  And then people were buying into it.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, they loved, they loved it.

• 26:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  They lapped it up. And so, you know, at that stage, all I really was doing is offering knowledge, you know, through my social media.

• 26:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  And selling some hoodies.

• 26:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  And getting gifted on TikTok. Like it was, you know, like you've got more, I've got more to give, but.

• 26:57Speaker 00

  Right.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Let's see where this will take us. And I got offered by an absolute gentleman, um, you know, big part of my, you know, my mentorship, leadership, you know, um, you know, I've got a bunch of blokes, Jeffrey Morgan, Danny Shannon, you know, Watani, his name is, they're calling him Wa, and he's the owner of a business called Amend Movement, deals with men's mental health.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Workshops, you know, helping men, you know, take the armour off, take the mask off.

• 27:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  And deal with, you know, what's inside, what we're suppressing and acknowledge, you know, our shame and guilt we might have, but also forgiveness and, and learn to be a better man, because a man is the foundation of the home, let's be honest. A happy man's a happy home. And Wa is out there, you know, teaching men to be, you know, positive masculine men. Men that are protectors, they're providers, but they're also loving, nurturing men as well, you know? I think that's a beautiful balance of a man, and I'd never seen this before. And then, um, Yo Wa, he reached out to me on social media. We did a live together. And then he reached out to me afterwards and he said, Gaz, I believe you have a gift to help a lot of people.

• 28:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  He said, let me help you heal so you can help others heal. And he offered me a ticket, a free ticket for me and my mate, Shauney, you know, he was the guy we come, I come down from Cairns with. He'd gotten clean and headed up Cairns prior to me going to Cairns. And then we've been on this healing journey together. And so me and Shauney went to, um, one of Wa's workshops and it's a full day workshop. You get there at nine o'clock, you don't leave till six.

• 28:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  And these, these blokes are all big built blokes. They're in the gym, they got tattoos. They're, they're men's men, but they're so loving, they're so caring, they're so nurturing. But also you see the provider and the protector in them, you know, and you're like, wow, I'd never seen this. I'd never seen a man like that in my life, you know? Because when you seen someone that was, you know, positive masculine energy, they come across soft.

• 28:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  You know, or if you seen a man that was hard and, you know, they had that stoic mentality, then it was that moved into that toxic sort of space.

• 28:55Speaker 00

  And then the environment.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, they had the perfect balance.

• 28:58Speaker 00

  Well, the environment you're in, where in jail, everyone's bridged up and walking around with, with attitude and the snarl. Um, okay, so you've, well, not stumbled, you've been invited into this and you're seeing, you're seeing something positive that you hadn't seen before.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, uh, and at the end of this, it was like a, let's call it like a three course meal. Breakfast, lunch and dinner, and then a dessert. The dessert at the end was breathwork.

• 29:22Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  And the style, the style of breathwork is holotropic.

• 29:26Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  So it's an intense somatic breath and it causes the body to release. It's called soma. So we call it soma. It's a short version and it's to release negative energy that the body holds on to. So we live experiences in life. And what happens on the back of those experiences, we feel them. That feeling is energy. Where does that, where's that energy go? It's called the body keeps score and the body holds on to that energy. Positive and negative. See, we, we've got the memory, but connected to the experience or the memory is the feeling, the feeling is energy. And the body actually holds on to that energy. So, you know, this causes negative experiences with negative energy attached to it.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  The body's holding on to this causes us to drag our feet, anxiety, depression, you know, all the mental health diagnosis, addiction, all the list, list goes on. And so this breathwork is designed to release the negative energy out the body. Also a combination of breath holds through the breath holds, we activate D M T, diamethyltryptamine. We have in the chemical we have in the body, we get a natural release of that when we're born and when we die. You know, that lays dormant for the rest of our lives. Um, we can activate this diamethyltryptamine through this breathwork as well. That's in the same category as plant based medicine. So we're talking mushrooms, ayahuasca, you know, peyote, that sort of stuff. Um. And yeah, so it's this massive spiritual experience. It's almost, it feels like a near

• 30:48Speaker 01

  death experience. Your life literally flashes before your eyes, all the good and the bad. And you release all this negative energy out the body at the same time through the somatic breath. And it's something very hard to put into words. But when you do it, it's life changing, literally.

• 31:03Speaker 00

  Well, listening and clearly that it's something that's captivated your, your interest and the stuff that you can really understand. And I, I think in something like that, the deeper you go, the more you learn. But yeah, I'm not sitting here looking at you going, what's this hippie dipshit?

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know you're, you're interested in breathwork. You've done some yourself.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, like I've done meditation retreats, yoga, breathwork, chagong from years gone by. So breathing and I've just of recent times doing something which is light vibration and sound, which it looks similar to what you're doing.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:38Speaker 00

  You say it's like a trip. You, you come out and you feel different. Now, is it spiritual? I don't know. I know how it makes me feel. I got through the cops for a very long time.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 31:49Speaker 00

  And my go to place was doing sort of meditation and breathwork and different things. So I know it affects me in a positive way, sort of re-centers me. So I do understand that. I think it's fascinating. It's alternative medicine, I think, but the science is starting to look into the type of stuff. I don't know the exact thing that you're doing.

• 32:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:09Speaker 00

  But I know how it can evoke emotions. I remember in Nepal, it, yeah, breathing, sound healing and different things, like it was having a different impact on every, everyone in the room.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  When you release this negative energy, Gary, um, a lot of times that negative energy, it comes out aggressively. It just doesn't come out like sunshine and rainbows.

• 32:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Because it's negative energy. So on the back of that is usually cries and screams.

• 32:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  It looks confronting to watch.

• 32:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  But when you're going through it, it's so liberating. It's so cleansing. It's, it's a beautiful experience. So, wow, you know, we jumped on the map for the first time. I had this massive experience and have literally never felt the same since.

• 32:46Speaker 00

  Tell us what it did for you. What was your personal experience?

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Hard to put into words. So, um, I had a, you know, they call it, we call it in the space, connecting with spirit. Yep. So, you know, a lot of tribes for thousands of years have connected with spirit through plant based medicine. We do this through the power of our breath, also a bunch of frequencies and tones we run through headphones. So fine neural beats, subliminal messaging, everything's tuned to four hundred and thirty two hertz, which is a very known. Um, healing frequency, very special number, NLP, you know, at least hypnotic suggestion, very powerful playlist. So it's almost like a blockbuster. That's why we call them journeys in the headphones. And then guided by the owner of nine D, Brian Kelly, which is an absolute legend. And so you've got this audio going on crazy. Like if you've heard of guided meditations through headphones, imagine that on steroids. Yeah.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  You've got the eye mask, helps you sit internal. So there's no external distraction and you're breathing to activate the medicine. Yeah, it's like a blueprint on life. You know, I had this hard, long look internally where I'd been. Where I started, where I'd been and where I should be going. And I also had a lot of people that had passed on, come and visit me. Yeah. So when I connected with spirit, you know, my dad come to visit me. Uh, my nan and pop, some mates that had passed on. You know, it felt like I was laying on my hospital bed and they were all standing over me. This is beautiful experience, very connected with universe, universe self source, spirit. Yeah. Massive, huge experience, very, very spiritual. Um, you know, I believe our spirit is our soul. I believe our soul's always been here.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  You know, we're living this human, physical, external, conscious reality we're in now. I believe we've been here before and we'll be here again. You know, souls eternal, energy never lies and it never dies. So when you connect with our soul, our true essence, our energy, our spirit. You know, you look through this lens at life and it all seems pretty trivia. You know, I, I could understand the wounds I had and I could let go of some of those wounds. You know, and also, you know, have a hard, long look at, at us outside of this vessel. Yeah. Just energy.

• 34:49Speaker 00

  How long have you been doing this for?

• 34:50Speaker 01

  Oh shit, I've been doing it for about nearly three years now.

• 34:53Speaker 00

  Okay, so you you've got the the history of it. I I see sometimes I see people come into different things that I I've been into. I I call them the Amway sales, like they walk in and they come out so excited that they've just discovered the meaning to life and it doesn't pan out. But if you've been doing it for three years and you can see that you're.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  And I've used a lot of other tools too. That's that's one tool in the backpack, you know, there's there's a lot of others, but that's that's our staple. And so, yeah, um, I remember sitting up for my first session with Wa and I I looked him straight in the eyes and I said, man, how do I become a facilitator? I said, I've found my purpose. Right then and now, I knew because I've been looking for a solution my whole life.

• 35:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  I'd obviously had some issues growing up the way I did and um I've been looking for a solution, but that solution was always external. It was always an external solution for an internal problem. And what I found that day when I laid on the mat and I breathed is the solution was sitting here the whole time. It was right next to the problem. I had the solution. I had all the answers. I just didn't know how to get to them.

• 35:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  And Wa had shown me how to get to them. And so as soon as I found the solution, I found my purpose. I knew right then and there, my purpose was to show the world this. I had to teach the world what I'd just been taught, which is the gift that we already have. It's the how powerful we really are when we come back to self. And so, um, yeah, I I went on a mission to just breathe as much as I could, to show up at the workshops, to do the work on self, to do the internal work. And yeah, now I I end up becoming a facilitator for about, you know, eighteen months after the fact of starting my healing journey, literally proper healing, not just wanting to live a better life. I started to work within and focus on the wounds and and unpack the negative energy my my body had been holding on to from my experiences in life. And I suppose that's why the way I talk and walk the way

• 36:38Speaker 01

  I do today, because I'm unpacking all this shit that the body was suppressing.

• 36:42Speaker 00

  Well, I I didn't know you beforehand, but I saw the earlier videos and I'm seeing who I'm sitting here talking to now. There's a difference. There's a calmness about you. And I don't mind experimenting in different things. I think there's some things work for one person that might not work. For the other, but I got no problems with people who have found something that works for them. Like I've had people, I'm not religious. I've had people sitting here and yeah, I turned my life around because I found God.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  Good on them.

• 37:10Speaker 00

  Well, that's what I say. Like I go, well, that's cool.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  If that works.

• 37:13Speaker 00

  It doesn't, it's not for me, but if it works, works for you. Others, yeah, physical training. And yeah, I, I think what you're doing with the breath work still works with the physical training. It's not, not exclusive, but good on you that you've found something that, that works for you. And I, there's, there's a calmness about you because I was looking at some of your past stuff and I think, mm, okay, where are we going with this? But I, I felt when you walked in the room, there's an energy.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  People can't understand it because it's just like, you know, the way I say it's like taking an ecchi. You know, you're trying to explain taking an ecchi, you won't get it until you've took one. You just can't put it into words. It's exactly the same. You won't get it until you've tried it. Well, once you've tried it, everybody falls in love with it because you find out that we have the answers, you know?

• 37:54Speaker 00

  What are some of the examples of people that you've helped?

• 37:56Speaker 01

  Oh, some of the wins, man. Wow. Had some huge wins. Tradeys are funny one. Tradeys, we get tradeys on the mat and that's a funny one. Cause you know, we get a lot of people that come in and they've lived, they've lived a pretty healthy life, man. Their parents worked hard and they had all the toys and the holidays and presents under the trees. And, and then they went into, you know, working and they've worked hard themselves and they've got the nice houses and the business and all the jet skis and the cars and the kids are going away for holidays. And so it's great. Yeah. Exterior looks good. But these blokes that work for 20 plus years, man, they're riddled with anxiety.

• 38:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  Depression. You know, they know nothing more than to get on the tools.

• 38:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  And it does, it does us toll, it takes us toll on the body. And so when we get them on the mat, we get funny results. A lot of times is, um, they throw their jobs in. They say, I can't do this for the next 20 years after they've had this massive spiritual experience. And then they come out and they're like, man, I've just sold my house. What do you mean? You sold your house? I'm gonna get a caravan. I'm taking the family. We're traveling Australia. Well, I just threw my job. What do you mean you threw your job? I'm gonna become a social worker. We hear of it all the time. And then, you know, they're they're great wins because people just wanna live life more present, you know? It doesn't make sense to them to just have the tunnel vision on after they've had this massive experience.

• 39:07Speaker 00

  It's interesting you you mentioned tradesmen. Like, I I started off in the building trade before I joined joined the cops. I know people have continued in the building trade and it does take a toll on its body. Like, it's hard, hard, physical work and day in, day out. But in that space too, they don't get the opportunity to even think about their emotions or or, yeah.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  It can be a toxic environment.

• 39:29Speaker 00

  Well, it's, yeah, when I went through, it was a very blokey environment. I would imagine it's still pretty much the same.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 39:36Speaker 00

  I don't rock up to a building site and you ask, hey, Gary, how are you feeling? Oh, I'm not feeling real good today, I guess.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  That doesn't land.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  Doesn't.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  That doesn't land at all.

• 39:45Speaker 00

  So I I can imagine that it opens up new ways of thinking.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Had a young bloke a few months ago, he um he had a great relationship him and his partners, young, in his early twenties.

• 39:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Got on the mat, went home after the session and said, I love you and you've done nothing, anything wrong to me, but I've got to go. She thought, what do you mean you've got to go? Grabbed a backpack and he's travelling the world. Said, I've got to go live. He said, I'll I'll I'll come back, but I've got to go. Yeah, like, this is the stuff that breathwork does. Yes, it releases negative energy and, you know, we can, you know, deal with anxiety and depression and trauma and all the stuff, because that's really what it is, you know. When negative energy is pain, hurt, stress, tension, emotion, trauma, you know, it's all these things. And so when you release that, we start to look through a different lens. But um yeah, seeing, you know, seeing people find their peace, ah, man, it gives me goosebumps every time.

• 40:33Speaker 00

  Any pushback on it, any like negative thoughts on it? What what type of things?

• 40:39Speaker 01

  People, people will, you know, they don't don't understand it.

• 40:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  And so when you don't understand it, you know, we get the people like, that's soft, that's weak. And it's the opposite, you know, it takes a lot of courage to face your demons, man.

• 40:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  You know, and to maybe find out that you're not your best.

• 40:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  People sometimes that's what we call sitting with self. And when we sit with self, the answers come up. Sometimes people don't want to see the answers.

• 40:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  So there's like, are you ready to start your healing journey? That's a big part of it. And some people aren't ready.

• 41:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:04Speaker 01

  So they're gonna knock it. In the space, there's, um, as long as you breathe deep, it works every time. So it's, we don't have any negativity. Once people go through their journey. It's nothing but positivity on the back of a deep breath.

• 41:18Speaker 00

  It's interesting, the, the different reactions you get, like breathing in one nostril, out the other or mouth and circulating it round. There, there's so many different.

• 41:27Speaker 01

  Breath is so powerful.

• 41:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  And we always heard, just breathe. Or who would ever thought, just breathe.

• 41:33Speaker 00

  Do any of the old, uh, old characters you.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  I have had to breathe, um, some kidnapped victims of mine. I've had to breathe, um, some people that have said, you pulled a gun on me. Or you chased my boyfriend down the street and shot at him and they've come in and, mate, I'll, I'll heal anybody. I'll help anybody heal.

• 41:49Speaker 00

  When you say you, you prove someone, they're going through the experience.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 41:53Speaker 00

  And you're there guiding them.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  That's correct. I'm holding space for them. And I have had people come in that we were on the wrong sides of the fence.

• 41:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  And they've come in, they said, listen, all shit aside, man, I, I, I believe in what you're doing and I need it.

• 42:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  I've actually got someone coming in. They've spoken in the Jack shop about me years ago. I have their paperwork and they reached out and I said, mate, you're more than welcome to get on the mat.

• 42:14Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  Do you know, like, I, I wouldn't be in it for the right reasons if I was saying, no, you can heal, but you can't, I can't be there. Am I truly in it for the right reasons then?

• 42:23Speaker 00

  No.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  I'll help anybody heal, Gary.

• 42:25Speaker 00

  And it, it is, uh, and you, you said during the course of our, our chat, that you wanna, you know, give back to society and that. Is this your way of, way of doing it?

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yep. This is how I reset my karmic debts, how I leave a legacy. I'm building an empire for all the right reasons now. I'm not hurting anybody. I'm helping. I've learnt, I've got to leave with love, not hate. And, um, and, you know, I, I get emotional almost every session and it's mid-journey, it's gnarly because they're releasing.

• 42:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  You know, it's all about release, but at the end of the journey is the peace they find.

• 42:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  I know that, you know, some people have never, ever stepped foot in the light they find at the end of these journeys.

• 42:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  And, um, it gives me goosebumps every time. Uh, it's, it's, it's so rewarding. I'm blessed to be in the position I am today. It's from hard work, I'll give it. And, um. And saying all that, I think it's only the beginning.

• 43:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  Just getting warmed up.

• 43:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. You know, it's. Hard work in learning it and then running the business and all that.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 43:17Speaker 00

  Well, where you came.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  And then doing the work on myself as well, you know.

• 43:20Speaker 00

  And and you still use it to keep it.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  And. Yep.

• 43:23Speaker 00

  I with doing chugong and meditation, I I use it now and I I say, say to people, I've got it in my back pocket. If my life is spinning out of control, I know how to bring it down through meditation, chugong or whatever.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Of course, regulate the nervous system.

• 43:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, and and when I was in the cops, when things were happening all the time, I'd just step aside and, you know, do my thing.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Exactly the same, man.

• 43:45Speaker 00

  And get that, get that balance back.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  I get a phone call and I think, oh, here we go. It's one of them phone calls. I'm just take a deep breath. I breathe through the nose, hold, hold, hold, out the mouth, just regulate for a second. I say, how you going? How's your day been? You know, like, I just, it just locks me in.

• 44:01Speaker 00

  Well, if if you're, if you're going into something high, high stress and it's a practice that a lot of people use is is get your breathing right.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 44:10Speaker 00

  Deep breaths in, deep breaths out. So, look, I hope, because I understand the stuff that you're talking about and I hope people, we haven't lost people and going, what are these idiots on about?

• 44:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:20Speaker 00

  But.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Can't knock it like they were saying, don't knock it until you try it.

• 44:24Speaker 00

  Till you try it. Well, I I think it's funny how people go into yoga and meditation and and all that. I had Bernie Matthews on the podcast years ago and I think he spent as long in the prisons as I did in in in the cops. A longer serving prisoner of Supermax here in Sydney.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 44:42Speaker 00

  And he was talking about how he got into meditation.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:46Speaker 00

  And when it was first given to him, because he was in isolation a lot of times, he thought, no, stuff this, I'm not going to do this, what am I going to sit here and chant?

• 44:53Speaker 01

  He found something that works.

• 44:55Speaker 00

  But he he got into meditation. Just getting back to the life that you've lived, what would you say to young blokes starting out? Young blokes and young women, like women are getting caught up in the crime as well. What what's the message? Because I think that's an important thing, someone's had lived experience that you've had.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Show me a person that has lived a life of crime, drugs, jail, crime, and has has been successful in the end. If you dip your toes in deep enough, shit's gonna go down. You're gonna lose. It's a negative environment. We create our own reality. And when you feed so much negativity, it's gonna come back to bite you. It's the only way it works. So they're gonna lose. It's a lose lose situation. You know, and even, okay, let's just talk hypothetically. Okay, some people have made millions and millions of dollars. What's that cost? And what have they had to sacrifice for that? Maybe they didn't end up in prison for the rest of life. Maybe they didn't end up dead, but you know what? They can't come back to Australia.

• 45:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  They've had to jet the country. They've left their family behind. Is that millions of dollars worth that? I would just say, can you slither through the cracks and come out the other side like I have? Because in the meantime, you know, some people end up in jail for the rest of their lives. They end up dead. They end up washed up on drugs and lose their mind and never come back. These are the occupational hazards of that lifestyle. You know, you might have to flee the country or, you know, your house, your family's house has been shot up or all the things. The list goes on and on and on. Are they gonna have to go through that before they learn? The sad bit is probably yes. I wish my word had weight with them. I wish I could look at them now and say, get out while you still can. But greed is so powerful and that's what it's all driven by. It's driven by greed and,

• 46:34Speaker 01

  you know, they're gonna have to learn. A lot of life's about learning lessons and they're gonna have to learn. And I wish it was as easy as me saying, get out, you'll be fine if you get out. And if they, if my word does have enough weight with them and they get out, well, well played. Let's, let's get you on the Mac. Reach out, whatever it is, let's do what I can offer. But until then, you know, they're gonna have to lose. And when you, when you've hit rock bottom, when you've lost enough, maybe that's when you'll go, okay, I'm over it. And then, then I can work with them.

• 47:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  But it's a slippery slope till then, you know, how much is your family or you gonna sacrifice because of the decisions you've made? Before enough's enough. Some people don't get a second chance. That's been as transparent as I can.

• 47:15Speaker 00

  Well, that's coming from someone that's lived the life and managed to get out the other side. And yeah, I'm seeing how energised you are now. You've found the passion, you've found something that you enjoy, something that is driving you. That's what I think people have got to look for too.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, purpose.

• 47:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, have a purpose.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  Purpose is everything.

• 47:36Speaker 00

  And it's rewarding.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  I found my purpose at forty, man. And look what I've done in four years, you know? Like, if you find your true purpose, like they say, if you get paid to do something you love, you'll never work a day. It's so true.

• 47:49Speaker 00

  Nothing's truer than that.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Find your purpose.

• 47:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  And make sure it's positive, you know? Yeah.

• 47:56Speaker 00

  Well, Gaz, I've enjoyed having a chat with you and all the boys that steered me towards you had all spoken very highly of you and they're people I respect. Good luck with your future and what you're doing. And thanks for being so open and honest.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  Thank you very much, Gaz. Cheers, mate.