Pod Insights How I Built This with Guy Raz How I Built Resilience: Troy Carter of Q&A (June, 2020) About this episode Music manager and entrepreneur Troy Carter spoke to Guy last June, as the pandemic was worsening and the country was shaken by racial unrest. Troy spoke about the profound impact of these events on him personally, as well as on the music industry. These conversations are excerpts from our How I Built Resilience series, where Guy talks online with founders and entrepreneurs about how they're navigating turbulent times. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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5:06 Guy Raz? or get started building for free today at framer.com/built for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan. That's framer.com/built. Rules and restrictions may apply. Hey, everyone. Just a quick announcement before we start the show. So, a lot of you may know how much I miss seeing all of you at the live, in-person shows that we do around the country during normal times. So, I am really excited to finally announce our first How I Built This virtual event. It's happening next month with Jay Shetty. Jay is a bestselling author, former monk, and wellness coach. And if you're searching for purpose, peace, and clarity in your life,
5:51 Guy Raz? or you're struggling to find meaning and motivation at work, you will not want to miss this conversation. Please join us. It's happening on Thursday, March 11. And anybody around the world can take part. For more information and tickets, head to nprpresents.org. And I hope to see you there.
6:15 Guy Raz? Hello, everyone, and welcome to How I Built This: Resilience Edition from NPR. I'm Guy Raz. Each week, on Thursdays, we invite entrepreneurs and other business leaders to come onto the show live to talk about how they've been building resilience into their businesses this year. And you can join us every Thursday at 9:00 AM Pacific, 12:00 Eastern, on the How I Built This Facebook, Twitter, or LinkedIn pages, or on NPR's YouTube page, to hear the live conversation and maybe even ask a question. And today, we're going to run one of our favorite episodes from the archives. Troy Carter, founder of Q & A, a music and technology company. Troy grew up in West Philadelphia with no money, no connections, and he rose to become one of the most influential people in the music industry, and one of the kindest, as
7:00 Guy Raz? well. Troy has managed artists like Lady Gaga and John Legend, and he's also founded several of his own media and music companies. We first met about three years ago on the podcast, and I talked to him most recently for our resilience series last summer. And for that conversation, we had planned to talk about how the pandemic had disrupted the music industry, and you'll hear we did. But this was back in June, at the height of the protests that were sweeping the country after the death of George Floyd. So, of course, Troy and I talked a lot about that, too. How are you talking to your kids about it?
7:38 Speaker 01 You know what? My 17-year-old daughter, she was actually at the protests in LA. For me, as scary as it is to have her at one of these protests, to be honest, which is just as scary to be Black in America, but not wanting to stop her from expressing her feelings and exercising her rights as an American citizen. And on the phone with my 24-year-old son, as you've got protesters going throughout the neighborhood that he lives, just making sure that he's physically safe. So I think it's an eye-opening moment for a lot of people.
8:22 Speaker 01 A lot of people in America, just to be honest, this is like everyday life for a lot of African Americans in our country. And, um, you know, recently I was on a trip, probably five months ago with my YPO forum, which is, you know, Young Presidents, uh, organization. And we did a retreat to Mexico City and it's ten of us. We get out of our SUV to pull up to the hotel, all of the guys go in the back to get their bags. And since the moment I go in the back to get my bag, I get attacked by security, like physically attacked by security.
9:00 Guy Raz? Yeah.
9:01 Speaker 01 You know, and I'm the only black guy in my YPO forum. But it was a crazy moment because, you know, they've heard me talk about this before. But to actually see this in action is just this bias that's kind of built in. But I'm glad this is being addressed and, um, now it becomes a real conversation.
9:23 Guy Raz? I mean, yeah, I mean, as a parent, Troy, like, I'm sure you struggle, right? Because on the one hand, I mean, your kids are independent adults, right? And they want to be there and express their anger and you want to support that. But also, as a parent, you're worried about their safety. And I'm sure that must have been a kind of an anguishing thing for you to, to go to kind of think about.
9:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, a- absolutely. And, um, it's the reality of, of, of what we have to deal with though. One of my sons is in the music industry and I worry about him traveling. These are things that I genuinely worry about. I was on the phone with, you know, my best friend and co-founder Jay Irvin, um, the other day. And, um, I have this airstream and he called up asking to borrow the airstream to drive from LA to North Carolina where his mother lives. And his mother called him from North Carolina and said, I'm worried about you driving down here because, you know, the South is still the South.
10:23 Speaker 01 But when he and I spoke, it's like, this is like a conversation that a mother would have with her son in the fifties or sixties. During the civil rights movement and the fact that we still have to worry about our lives as we drive across the country to do to do a road trip is just a different set of concerns that we still live with as parents and as and as citizens and it's hard for people to really understand it and especially like somebody made a comment in a chat room I was in the other night about how money could change it and I'm like
11:03 Speaker 01 money doesn't matter and power doesn't matter it's just this bias that that's sort of baked in in the recipe of of of America that we've had to live with but now I think what we've seen that's different with these protests this is what I consider just a merger of the left behind where this this these are white black Asian Hispanic people that have been you know saddled with student debt people who can't pursue the American dream because of just the way that the economic divide right now people who feel like you know they they're not going to have their shot and what we're seeing in the streets right
11:45 Speaker 01 now is just a merger of all of this built up frustration.
11:49 Guy Raz? You know Troy I in this past decade you know we've had Trayvon Martin we've had so many examples but I mean it's strange because already 10 years ago I I feel like we started to have these conversations and nothing has changed and it's um it's just very very depressing I don't know I don't know any what any other word to to use.
12:09 Speaker 01 Yeah it is um I wrote a letter to my staff yesterday and because it it took me a while just to kind of even really talk openly about this and I referenced Rodney King right you know we had technology at that point which was like the camcorder you know within the till you didn't have technology to sort of address that right and then when we saw the incident with Karen and and the bird watcher in Central Park and we saw you know a white woman weaponize. Her privilege and actually it was fascinating to me to actually watch the process.
12:51 Speaker 01 And the octave go up in her voice with fear, that octave was a dog whistle. That people who who could hear it knew what that note was. And to see the process of of privilege and action, I think hit a nerve with people. Because people aren't used to actually seeing that and then seeing an innocent person on the other end. What kind of pissed me off with it, though, you know, in the news the next day. You know, I'm reading the New York Post and everything and it's talking about, you know, the guy had a Harvard degree. You know, he he was a bird watcher. He's on the board of this, you know, society and these things. Who cares? We shouldn't have to justify any of those facts.
13:35 Speaker 01 He shouldn't have to have a Harvard degree or be a bird watcher to be an innocent person being accused of of of something like that. That could have ended up in in him being arrested or or his death. And, you know, I think within this truncated period of time, people have been able to see these things. All back to back on camera within a matter of a few weeks. At a time when people have had this pent up frustration from being in their homes, being away from their friends, being away. And so people are just bursting at the seams right now and and all of this frustration. What I hope is that this isn't a moment, that this isn't just a blip on our historical radar.
14:20 Speaker 01 That this can be a catalyst for change because if this is just a moment, shame on America.
14:27 Guy Raz? You know, Troy, I um I lived in Germany for for two and a half years as a as a reporter. And what what really struck me about Germany, and Germany is an imperfect country. There's racism, there's antisemitism. But they they embarked on a decades long experiment to reckon with their past. It's not perfect, but they have become a healthier society and a stronger society. And really a a more peaceful society because they have made a collective national attempt to reckon with their past. The United States has never done that. And it sort of occurs to me, I think, to to many people that we're sort of reaping what we sowed as a country. You know, for our failure to to reckon with 400 years of slavery and oppression.
15:09 Speaker 01 So like in America, you still have statues of oppressors. You know, with like only five years ago, we were managing Meghan Trainor, and we went on this concert tour of state fairs. And this was our first time doing it. So I decided to take my wife and my two daughters. We're on a tour bus and we get to Troy, Pennsylvania, ironically. We got off the bus. And I remember my one, my daughter who's six now was one. So she was just starting to walk. And me and my daughter, who's 17 now, were walking through the fair.
15:51 Speaker 01 And it's all of these merch stands with Confederate flags at one after another. And a guy walked up to me and, you know, basically said like, you know, what are you doing here? Like, you know, are you a dancer? Like, you know, what like, what are you doing here? And this is Pennsylvania. I grew up in Philadelphia. So you would have never. And then we went to Ohio after. And on stage, it was a Confederate flag right behind the stage. And Charlie Puth refused to go on for his sound check until they took that flag down. This is five years ago. So we're still reminded of our place in this country.
16:35 Speaker 01 So you'll never get to reconciliation. We all know the truth, but we'll never get the reconciliation.
16:43 Guy Raz? That's Troy Carter. When we come back in just a moment, we'll switch gears a little bit. I'll ask Troy about how the music industry can play a role and what it still has to learn in this very difficult moment. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This from NPR.
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18:53 Guy Raz? Hey, welcome back to How I Built This, Resilience Edition. Troy Carter has built an amazing career in the music industry, and in the early days, he relied on live performances and world tours to grow his clients' fan base. But with concerts canceled for the year and fans stuck at home, I asked Troy, what will the music industry look like in the next year or so?
19:14 Speaker 01 Good thing with the music industry, our product on the record side is mostly digital. So, you know, we had the luxury of not having to rely on manufacturing plants or trucking and all of those things to get our product, you know, from here to there. And if we were still in the CD business, we'd be really screwed, you know, if people had to actually go to a store to buy a product. So I think on that side, we're fine. On the touring side is catastrophic. And the reality is, we probably won't see this look normal until 2022, in my opinion. You know, just because I think you have, one, still the social distancing.
19:58 Speaker 01 You think about economically whether people are going to be able to afford tickets. But on a positive side, I think it's going to accelerate technology in terms of finding better options around live streaming.
20:11 Guy Raz? Yeah.
20:11 Speaker 01 I was just telling a friend recently, like, the live concert experience is good in one sense, terrible in another sense, because only a small percentage of people have really good seats. Because some of the CD is just terrible, like where you don't see the details. And artists work so hard on like these details and the nuance with lighting and all of these things. And I think technology can provide everybody with a much better seat and a much better experience. So I don't think live would go completely away, but I do think technology can provide a very rich experience. And if I'm over the age of 65, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to a U2 or Eagles concert with
20:56 Speaker 01 100,000 people in the audience, right? Um, so I think, you know, seeing some of these legacy bands is going to be tough. I don't think people are really going to take that risk, but I do think this is going to provide a good opportunity.
21:10 Guy Raz? I want to ask, we're actually getting some questions. And this is from Andrea. She's asking, um, she says, doesn't feel right to me to be all over social media with anything other than Black Lives Matter content. Or even to release non-political music right now. What are your thoughts on releasing music in the coming weeks?
21:27 Speaker 01 Music is a healer. You know, I think at the end of the day, we still need things that are gonna make us smile, bring people together. I think there's gonna be a lot of politically and socially driven music that's born out of this moment. But I do think where I do agree is we can't walk away from the subject. We can't pretend that this moment didn't happen. I don't think people should be tone deaf in this moment and not address it. But the way I feel like last night I got sick of watching the news and I just needed some Netflix for a second just to take my mind off of it. So hopefully people are still releasing content where we can step away
22:12 Speaker 01 and sort of refresh and have a moment where it just doesn't break us down completely.
22:17 Guy Raz? This is a question from Will Plays. Do you think that the music industry is suffering right now? I mean, you can't physically promote music. You can't perform live. I mean, is the industry taking a hit right now?
22:28 Speaker 01 Funny enough, I think it's taken a hit in two ways, right? So I think both crises is showing the vulnerability of the music business. You know, I think with the pandemic, you know, we talked about the fragility of the touring business, promotion business, even down to going out to visit radio stations and promote the records and doing late night shows and all of that stuff. You know, you sort of see where the fragility is. So that's COVID related. What we're seeing with the sort of racial crisis that's going on. People talk about how the NFL only has, you know, three or four black coaches and no African Americans in the front office. The music industry is much, much worse than the NFL.
23:13 Speaker 01 What black music has contributed financially to the music industry? What black culture has contributed, you know, financially to the music industry? And when you look at the ratio of actual black executives in the music industry?
23:28 Guy Raz? Yeah.
23:28 Speaker 01 It's appalling. Actually, believe it or not, have white people that are the heads of black music with the title at some of these companies. You know, it's and literally you have qualified black executives in the company. But actual white people with a title, the head of black music is like, it's crazy. And so like the fact that the music industry that prides itself on being progressive. And providing opportunities still has these structures in place. And I think the last couple of weeks has sort of brought this part of the conversation to to a head as well.
24:11 Guy Raz? And it sounds like if ever there was going to be a kick in the butt, now would be that moment, he would hope.
24:17 Speaker 01 It's about being fair, Guy. When we think about fairness. I'm gonna, I'm gonna rephrase that because I, I want to be very, very, very frank. A lot of people are under the impression that it's like, okay, everybody has a, has a shot. We live in a country where everybody has a shot. But when you look at the education system, you look at where people actually start from. I know for a fact, my personal journey was incredibly difficult. And I know how much luck was on my side. I know how much things just had to go completely right at any given moment for things to go well.
25:02 Speaker 01 But I had to get very, very lucky to get where I am today. And we don't want handouts. That's the thing, like where I had to explain to somebody this weekend, you know, they're like, okay, we want to do. A foundation for black businesses. And I'm like, no, it's not a foundation. Like those black businesses should be held to the same standard of return on capital. It's just the opportunity to have access to that capital, have access to the support and training. That Y Combinator companies may get or that. You know, first round capital companies may get like it's just it's just a matter of access.
25:46 Speaker 01 And even when in places where certain individuals may fall short because they may not have the background. Let's lean in a little bit more understanding that there may be a little bit more of a learning curve. But giving them the ability to catch up. That's the part that's challenging. I went through something a couple of years ago, like a dispute. And what I was explaining to the person on the other side of the dispute. I made a statement along the lines of, I said, as a black executive. There's a lot of other black executives behind me.
26:25 Speaker 01 So you hurting me isn't just hurting me, it's hurting a lot of black executives behind me. And the person said, they actually said it to TMZ. They said Troy Carter uses the race card. Said the race card, I'm like, you're you're born with the with the deck of cards. You use that deck every single day. So the fact I have to educate you on the impact of what you're doing and how it impacts other people. The the results are different.
27:00 Guy Raz? If we um, if we watch this video in five or 10 years from now and you could. You could imagine how how this moment would change things or impact things. Um, what do you think could happen? I mean, are you it's I don't want to ask if you're hopeful because I hate that question, but. Sort of a version of that question, you know, are you? Do you think that this moment can really actually change things and move the needle in a significant way that other moments haven't?
27:26 Speaker 01 If American history teaches us anything, the answer would be no. But as an entrepreneur and somebody who is just crazily optimistic about everything, I am optimistic that this is gonna have an impact on this generation, who may not put up with what they're seeing right now. Because it impacts them on a personal level as well. So where race may not impact you, but I can promise you, the lack of economic opportunity is gonna impact a lot of people. That's gonna be the bigger impact guy. Where we have a lot in common in terms of,
28:11 Speaker 01 across every single race and ethnicity and gender and religion, is economic divide. And with economic divide, that's when we're gonna see opportunities go away. And so if we're looking in 10 years, we're gonna see the impact that technology is gonna have on the workforce. And how many jobs are gonna go away. And when we look at where education is right now, education won't keep up with technology. Yeah. So, we need to have a lot more empathy right now. I just beg people, just be empathetic. Look at what happens in communities in our country.
28:54 Speaker 01 Look at like when people talk about black-on-black crime, people talk about what's happened in family structures. Look at the psychological impact that slavery has had on families, where I couldn't imagine my kids being torn out of my arms. I couldn't imagine all of these things. And so, just have some empathy around this issue. Let's just admit that we got it wrong as a country, and take a step back and try to fix this moving forward. Let's have some empathy right now.
29:29 Guy Raz? Troy Carter, um, thank you for joining us. Thank you for, um, being here and your wisdom. And, um, I hope to see you. See you when we get, when we're all able to see each other face to face again.
29:40 Speaker 01 Yes, and thank you, Guy, and thank you for giving us this platform. We appreciate it.
29:45 Guy Raz? Thanks. That's an excerpt from my live conversation back in June of last year with Troy Carter, the founder of Q and A, a music and technology company. If you want to see the interview in its entirety, or any of our past live interviews, you can find them on the How I Built This Facebook page or at youtube.com/NPR. And if you want to join our conversations live and maybe even ask questions, they happen every Thursday at 9 Pacific, noon Eastern. If you want to find out more about the How I Built This Resilience series or other virtual NPR live events, you can go to nprpresents.org. This episode was produced by Candace Lim, with help from Liz Metzger, Farah Safari,
30:26 Guy Raz? J.C. Howard, Bruce Grant, Al Mannion, Gianna Capadona, John Isabella, Julia Carney, Neva Grant, and Jeff Rogers. Our intern is Janet O'Jong Lee. Thanks for listening. Stay safe, and I'll see you back here in a few days. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This, Resilience Edition, from NPR.
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