How I Built Resilience: Songe LaRon of Squire

When Songe LaRon founded Squire in 2016, his mission was to use modern technology to help run barbershops, which are using his app in the U. S., U. K., and Canada. With a recent funding round of $34 million, Songe is hopeful about expanding Squire's reach, but first, he wants to help barbershops survive the COVID-19 pandemic. These conversations are excerpts from our How I Built Resilience series, where Guy talks online with founders and entrepreneurs about how they're navigating turbulent times. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Guy Raz?

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• 0:45Guy Raz?

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• 1:30Guy Raz?

  based on one small decision. Visit usbank.com/business to learn more. The creditor and issuer of this card is US Bank National Association, pursuant to a license from Visa USA, Inc. Some restrictions apply. Our presenting sponsor today is Anthropic, the team behind Claude. Every founder on this show started with a hard question. Not the marketing plan, the 2:00 AM kind. Is this idea any good? Am I the one to build it? Should I quit my job? Anthropic got built the same way. A public benefit corporation founded on one Hard question. How do we make sure AI goes well for people?

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• 4:21Guy Raz?

  NetSuite Next surfaces insights exactly when you need them, puts agents to work on routine tasks and problems, and lets you ask complex questions in plain language, like talking to a knowledgeable colleague. But technology is only part of the story. AI is also reshaping how people and teams work together, and that shift is already underway. That's why NetSuite wants to put a new, expert-created business guide in your hands today. It's called Aligning for the Agentic Era: How AI is Changing Everyday Work. And right now, it's yours, absolutely free. Inside, you'll discover how AI could reshape work across your entire organization, and how to position your business to prosper from it.

• 5:06Guy Raz?

  If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get NetSuite's free business guide, Aligning for the Agentic Era: How AI is Changing Everyday Work, at netsuite.com/built. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com/built. netsuite.com/built. Hey, everyone, and welcome to How I Built This: Resilience Edition. On these episodes, we're talking with entrepreneurs and other business leaders about how they're thinking creatively during this very disruptive moment. And today, my conversation with Song Luran, the co-founder of Squire. Squire is an app that connects barber shops with clients. Song founded Squire in 2016 with his best friend,

• 5:49Guy Raz?

  Dave Salvant, to modernize the barber shop experience. And nowadays, their app is not only booking appointments, but also helping barber shops stay open, if they're allowed to. I spoke with Song a few days ago about Squire and the barber shop industry. But first, Song let me know that he actually wasn't at home. I should mention- That you are actually in an office of a barber shop right now in Connecticut. Which you can, you can hear a little bit of it behind you.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Can you hear it?

• 6:20Guy Raz?

  No, that's fine, that's fine. So, so first of all, are barber shops in Connecticut open?

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, they are, um, they are open. I think Connecticut is probably phase three or, or whatever, whatever phases where barber shops and other service-based businesses are open. So yeah, they're, they're open for business.

• 6:38Guy Raz?

  And what's the protocol in there? Are the barbers wearing masks and the customers wearing masks?

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Barbers wear masks, customers wear masks. Uh, there's no waiting in the barber shop anymore. Customers will have to wait outside or in their car until their appointment time, um, is, is ready. And there's also, you know, social distancing between shares. They spread out the shares so that they're, you know, they're servicing less, you know, fewer customers, uh, as a result. I, I would say that barbers are probably one of the few, uh, types of professionals that are very well equipped in this, in this new environment. Um, because they actually go to school for this. In order to get a barber shop, a barber license, you have to study, you know, disinfecting and taking different precautions.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  So, you know, unlike, you know, maybe waiters or other types of people who are providing services, I think barbers are one of the few that actually already had to get licensed and go through education, you know, to be prepared for this environment. So I'm a big proponent of, uh, of barber shops reopening.

• 7:40Guy Raz?

  Yeah, I'm in California and now barber shops are closed and I have to be honest, like I'm a little, I'm still nervous about, I would still be nervous about going. You know, I've, I've given myself two very bad haircuts over the last six months with, with clippers and my kids too. But what, I mean, when you go now to a barber shop, what are they doing? Everyone's, everyone's wearing a mask, but are they disinfecting the seats between customers and, you know?

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're disinfecting. I mean, they already have to disinfect tools between every cut. They should be doing that. Um, but now they're also, uh, disinfecting, uh, the seating area. Uh, many of them are using, uh, disposable barber capes.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  They're using just one per customer, so they'll have a supply, you know, ready so they're not reusing the capes.

• 8:26Guy Raz?

  Yep.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  A lot of them are not doing certain services, like they won't do beard work, or they won't do shaves, anything that would require the client to remove their mask. You know, I, I think that there hasn't been a lot of evidence of barbershops being one of the high transmission services.

• 8:42Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  With anything, there's risks. There's, there's risks, you know, walk out outside any day and there's going to be some risk involved and it's just a matter of, you know, the balance of how, how much you want that service. So it makes sense, you know, if you don't feel comfortable getting a haircut, yeah.

• 8:55Guy Raz?

  There was this article, you probably saw it a couple of days ago, of a hair salon where two of the stylists had tested positive for COVID, but none of the more than a hundred and thirty customers that went in, you know, over the course of the few days, tested positive. Everybody was wearing masks and it sort of suggests that masks really do work.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Masks really do work, yeah. If there's one thing I wish everyone could, could kind of agree on, I think that, you know, masks work.

• 9:19Guy Raz?

  Yeah, can we, can we just say that right now? All of those people who were on the hike that I went on over the weekend, who were not wearing masks when you passed by me on the trail that was this wide, please wear a mask.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Hmm, please.

• 9:34Guy Raz?

  All right, let's talk brass tacks here, Song. So I mentioned a little bit about Squire. For people who don't know the app, tell, tell us more about it.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Squire is a business management and point of sale software focusing on barber shops. So we do essentially everything that a barber shop needs to run their business, from handling the booking, uh, interface, to the backend inventory. It's really customized specifically for their barber shop industry. And then on the consumer side, as a client, um, you can actually find a barber shop, uh, book, pay and tip, all in the app or on the website.

• 10:11Guy Raz?

  And, and what's the business model? How do you guys make money through the business?

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Um, the main ways, uh, from handling the payment processing, so that, that's really core to our business. There's a subscription component, uh, so the shops that use our platform will pay a hundred dollars to two fifty a month. And then there's a customer book. Free, uh, so if you book and pay on Squire, you'll pay about a dollar extra and that revenue goes to Squire.

• 10:36Guy Raz?

  I mean, most people don't know this, but a lot of barbers are independent contractors. You may go to a barber shop and they may have a chair there, but they actually are their own business, right?

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, so there's two central models for barber shop business models. Uh, one is what you mentioned, which we call kind of the booth rental model. Where each barber is essentially an independent contractor. Uh, they run their own business, they manage their own schedule, they go and come as they please. And then they pay rent to the owner, usually on a weekly basis. And then the other, uh, model is what we call a commission model. Where those barbers are treated a little bit more like employees. Um, they have certain hours that they come. And in that case, they split the percentage of the transaction with the shop. Usually it'll be sixty forty or fifty fifty. And the owner will get a piece of every, of every transaction.

• 11:28Guy Raz?

  Um, you kiffed out of this with your friend, Dave Salvant. Tell me how you guys had the idea. I know, I mean, you studied philosophy as an undergraduate. And then you went and got a law degree and Dave was an old friend, I guess. How did you guys come up with this idea?

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I actually prior to founding Squire, I, I was at a corporate law firm. And Dave was actually in business school. And both of us wanted to do something more entrepreneurial, didn't want to go the corporate route. Uh, so we would just brainstorm ideas on the weekend. And we eventually stumbled on the idea of barber shops. And the idea came out of our own experience. I haven't gone to barber shops for decades. Like most people, I started going with my dad as a kid around six or seven. And the experience of going to the barber shop hadn't changed. Very antiquated, low tech industry, cash based. You took call to make an appointment, long wait times. So all of those pain points that, that we had experienced formed the basis of

• 12:27Speaker 01

  why we came up with the idea of this is something that we wanted to work on.

• 12:31Guy Raz?

  Yeah, my barber shop, they don't take appointments. You have to get, get there when the doors open at, at eight thirty and they have a chalkboard. And there's usually a line and it's cash. Only it's thirty five bucks and you can get there at eight thirty. And you might only get an appointment at like eleven forty five and some days I'll like ride my bike down there. At eight thirty and then they only have an appointment at a time where I have a live interview and I can't get an appointment. I can't get a haircut. But basically that's that's been the model for forever and ever for for most barber shops.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, so and that's that's what we're we're solving. Cause that that's not a really an ideal experience for you as as a customer and it's it's not a good experience for the barbers either. Uh, in in terms of efficiently um, running their business. But getting a haircut is such such a great experience and it's it's such. Uh, an important part of your life that you're willing to to go through. Uh, you know, that poor customer experience to to to get the service. Um, but we don't, we think that we can make make it better than that.

• 13:29Guy Raz?

  How how have you like, how do you approach barber shops? I mean, I have to imagine like. There are a lot of barber shops that are like, I don't want to give up my cash or I don't want to give up, you know, percentage of my business or a percentage of my. Income. I mean, it's presumably you'd get some pushback from potential customers. So how do you make the case for people to sign up?

• 13:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, we. The sale to them is that this is going to make their lives easier. This is going to save them time and this is actually going to. Enable them to be better business owners and make more money and and we can show them. Um, that that's what the the software, the software actually does. Early on, we we did get more pushback uh, from cash only shops. Uh, so our focus was more on shops that are already taking cards. But that's really the trend just in the world generally. Consumers are used to paying for services with cards. So the shops that are cash only, there will be some segment that just doesn't want to pay taxes, quite frankly. But you know, we're seeing more and more, particularly, you know, the newer shops that are opening.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  They understand that if they want to meet their consumers and provide a really, you know, great experience to their clients, that they have to kind of accept cars. And it it enables them to charge more, you know, we know that it says people will pay more on card versus cash. And if you want to charge thirty dollars a haircut, forty dollars a haircut, as is the case in many, you know, many. Cities, um, it just makes sense.

• 14:52Guy Raz?

  I have to imagine that bookings are significantly down because there's so many states you can't, you can't go to a barber shop.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, so bookings definitely took a dip when the shutdowns started. March, April, and our, our revenue essentially went to zero.

• 15:07Guy Raz?

  Yep.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  And we also decided to waive all of our subscription charges to current and new customers, um, until October because we, we knew that their revenue was also going to go to zero. We didn't want them to have that overhead. So as a result, you know, we expected this choir essentially wouldn't be making any money, but we were okay with that because this is just such a difficult time. What we have seen though is that as shops, as our customers are reopening, um, they are getting booked out. They're getting booked out relatively fast and then, and then their bookings are continuing to stay consistent. You know, that, that just kind of speaks to how much of a need there was, like a pent up demand from their clients to get haircuts. And I think that there's something about just the barber shop experience and, and the community

• 15:50Speaker 01

  element of it that people, you know, men in particular, really look forward to, to that normalcy and to being able to get a haircut and feel great about themselves and feel the way things were, they were before COVID. Um, so we're, we're actually seeing it for the shops that are reopening higher than usual bookings. And, uh, you know, we'll see how that trend continues in the months to come. So far, that's what we're seeing.

• 16:13Guy Raz?

  There's something I read that you, you, you had said, um, about barber shops. Um, you call them a fail-proof service, which I think is, is right. You know, I think you said, look, they bring in roughly half the population, um, that needs grooming. But this pandemic, which nobody predicted and nobody anticipated, has shown that nothing is fail-proof. Everything can fail, even the most resilient ideas. So how have the past few months kind of made you rethink your business model?

• 16:41Speaker 01

  It's made me understand that you can never predict the future. There's always going to be an unknown unknown. We always thought that that a recession was coming at some point.

• 16:52Guy Raz?

  Right.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  You know, the gravy train can't go on forever. I always thought that our business was would fare relatively well in a downturn. Because, you know, people will continue to get haircuts. And we've seen this, you know, in the past that these type of services, you know, tend to remain consistent in downturns. I mean, this is a total black swan event. I didn't, I just, I never would have predicted a pandemic at the scale. But if anything, I, this has made me believe that our business is even more resilient than I thought before. Just seeing how we've been able to kind of adapt to the reality and make changes on the fly, push features that we know our customers need during this time.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  And as a result, what we've seen in the last two months, actually more inbound and more customers signing up than we ever have in the life of the company.

• 17:47Guy Raz?

  When we come back in just a moment, we'll hear from Song about running a business during a global economic crisis and his plans for getting Squire through the pandemic. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to How I Built This, Resilience Edition from NPR.

• 18:08Guy Raz?

  Hey, welcome back to How I Built This, Resilience Edition. Last month, Song Laron was able to raise some pretty significant venture capital. But he's taking extra precautions to make sure that this influx of cash will last Squire for the next few months. Song, I know you guys did a round that you raised more than $30 million during this crisis. But I have to imagine that you're trying to keep your cash balance sheet relatively strong and probably are cutting costs and trying to be fairly careful about how you spend cash in case this lasts a long time, right? You need that cash to last to get you through this economic crisis.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, absolutely. You know, when we started seeing stage Be opening, it was a positive sign because our revenue started rebounding relatively quickly. In fact, it may in June exceeded pre COVID numbers just because of all the new business that we're bringing on. So that that kind of showed, okay, things are trending towards best case. And then now we're seeing states closing again, which we didn't, we didn't really expect. Uh, like California has reclosed. So this goes to show you can never really know, but um. It's always safe to us, us kind of assume the worst case and be prepared for the worst case, which. We were prepared to go to, to go to zero revenue uh for over 12 months.

• 19:25Guy Raz?

  Wow.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  I thought that that was in the realm of possibility.

• 19:28Guy Raz?

  Um, we're getting a bunch of questions on Facebook from our audience. I want to ask a question from Dante Richardson. Um, what are some principles that you've discovered and executed over the course of your entrepreneurial journey that have contributed to your success?

• 19:42Speaker 01

  Uh, one of the principles is, I believe, in bringing the best people um into your team. And really looking for people that can complement your skill set and are better than you or what they do. And uh, if you're an employee at a big company, a big corporation, um, you want to be the smartest guy or girl in the room. You want to excel over other employees so that you can kind of move up the ranks. Um, and you know, that's, that's how you'll, you'll be successful. As a founder, you do not want to be the smartest person in the room.

• 20:15Guy Raz?

  Right.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  You, you, you want people in the room who are way better than you at what they do. So that collectively you can make the company excel and that will, you know, in turn make you successful as a founder. So kind of like a successful founder is only as successful as the people that they bring in. And also, I, I don't believe in micromanaging. Uh, I believe in bringing people in and giving them room, you know, to make mistakes, to excel, to learn from those mistakes. Um, if you have to micromanage your people that you hire, you probably hired the wrong person. And uh, yeah, so those are just two things off the top that, that I think are worthwhile.

• 20:53Guy Raz?

  I'm gonna go to another question from our audiences from Claire Murashima. Hello, Claire. Claire asks, how have you kept your professional relationships during this time? I mean, with your team, with your co-founder, who's like one of your best friends, who's like across the country in LA? Have you been doing that and making sure that you keep morale up?

• 21:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a great question. It's been a challenge to keep those relationships remotely. I mean, we have had a little bit of an advantage because we were already somewhat distributed. So, you know, we had an office in Buffalo, New York City. Our engineering team was all spread out. Our sales team was all spread out. So, we were already used to collaborating on Zoom, you know, and communicating on Slack. But this took it to a whole new level because it just, there's no physical presence anymore. So, you know, we'll do like a virtual happy hour and not even talk about business. Things like that help. It's not, it's never a replacement

• 21:52Speaker 01

  for the physical, you know, one-to-one interaction, but it does help.

• 21:57Guy Raz?

  I want to ask you about, and you've written about this and tweeted about this, black entrepreneurship in America has declined over the last 30 years. Also, entrepreneurship full stop has. I mean, there were more black-owned banks in the 80s and insurance companies in the 80s than there are today. If you were talking to like a young college graduate, black man or woman, and they were like, hey, should I become an entrepreneur today? Would you say now is a good time to start a business in this uncertain economic environment?

• 22:28Speaker 01

  That's a tough question. It's a good question. I do think that the tides are changing, especially recently, with increased attention to the plight of black founders and black people in general. So, I think that now is probably a better time than ever to be an entrepreneur, a black entrepreneur. That being said, it's still, you know, gonna be challenging to be an entrepreneur, period, let alone a black entrepreneur. You know, the odds are kind of against you, you know, to be frank. So, I would encourage them that if entrepreneurship is their dream... And if that's kind of what they see themselves doing, then they have to pursue it. I always encourage people to take risks, but measured risks.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  So if you're at a, if you're at a big company and you're, um, you know, making a decent salary, save as much personal runway as you can before making the leap. Understand that you may go six months to twelve months with little to no income and just know what you're getting yourself into. But I do believe that entrepreneurship, particularly in tech, uh, provides an opportunity for wealth creation that is in a short period of time that is really unparalleled most other industries. I mean, I'm, I believe in it. I believe in entrepreneurship, you know, clearly that's, that's what I've committed my life to. So I would, I would never tell somebody to not pursue it, but it is risky, particularly now, uh, particularly now.

• 23:54Guy Raz?

  You and Dave really launched your, your company after, um, or sort of before, but really were able to launch it with, um, a grant that you received after entering into an entrepreneurship contest in Buffalo, New York. Has it been difficult over the years for the two of you to raise money?

• 24:09Speaker 01

  It's been difficult. Um, so that, the, that company is called Forty Three North. And, uh, it actually wasn't a grant. It was, it was an investment.

• 24:16Guy Raz?

  Investment, okay.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, it was an investment, six hundred fifty thousand. We won the, uh, the comp.

• 24:21Guy Raz?

  So that's an equity investment in your company?

• 24:23Speaker 01

  It was an equity. Yeah, yeah. It was, that's structured, it's structured as a warrant that converted to, to equity when we raised a price round. Um, but prior to that, um, yeah, raising money is not, is, is, is not easy, particularly at first. As a first time entrepreneur, as somebody who doesn't have a, you know, track record in tech, um, and didn't have the network at that point. It was challenging. We were fortunate, both my co-founder and I, to have a pretty decent network of professionals in New York City from like law, finance and, you know, uh, uh, other kind of like high paying industries. And we actually were able to get, and many of them are African American. We were able to get, uh, some of our early like friends, no family, just friends around, her friends and, uh, you know, slash angel

• 25:07Speaker 01

  that helped us, you know, get to the next level. But for us fundraising, until we raised, uh, Series A and Series B was always a real kind of like just a grind. You know, get it, get one check that'll take us a couple of months and then go out and try to get it. No, we, we never really stopped fundraising. It was, it was a constant thing that we were doing to keep the business afloat. And quite a few times, I mean, we came close to, you know, one month of runway.

• 25:32Guy Raz?

  Wow.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 25:33Guy Raz?

  You're running a business, you're, you know, you've got a staff of sixty, you've got to show up and inspire people and be their leader and. Uh, but also like you are a human and you were in New York in the midst of mass demonstrations against racial injustice. Which um, I can't imagine couldn't was not, you know, was, was, was an incredibly emotional time for you. Um, and probably some people on your team. How did you guys navigate that and cope with that? Did you talk about it openly with each other and were there days where you just didn't, you just didn't want to get on that Zoom call?

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, uh. One of the things that kind of unfortunately you have to learn to do as, as an entrepreneur is, is compartmentalize. If something can be weighing on you that's outside of your business, you kind of have to learn how to put it in a. One place in your mind and focus on things you have to focus and then kind of give it attention when the time is right. Aside from everything that's going on the road, just in life, that's, that's kind of a skill set that. Um, many founders and entrepreneurs have learned that they have to develop. Um, so, you know, that, that was kind of my, my approach to it is like, you know, if, if I, unfortunately, if I were to. Stop working every time a black person was, was killed by the police, you know.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Uh, it would just be such a distraction. I would never be able to be successful. That's kind of like personally, on a personal level, what, what I've had to do, but as, as far as the company goes, yeah, we, we try to be very sensitive. To um, our employees and what, what they're going through, you know, we communicated to them that, you know, as a company, we, we stand on, on the side of, of Black Lives Matter. Um, of Black Lives Mattering, uh, shouldn't even be a controversial statement. Um, and that, um, we really want to give our employees space to, to process and we told everyone they could take. Time off um if they needed to, if they wanted to just, you know, be with their emotions, or if they wanted to go protest, or if they wanted to do whatever they wanted to do.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Um, we also made, kind of made a statement um as, as a company, um saying, you know, our position and, and you know, we made some public donations uh to, to some nonprofits. Um, so you know, as, as a company, those are the things that we felt was the right thing to do. Um, and you know, on an individual basis, as, as a, as a black man, yeah, it, it is, it's very difficult. On one side, you wanna help, you wanna do what you can to just kind of support the movement, but on the other hand, you know that one of the most beneficial things you can do is create a successful company. And be an example of what's possible and hopefully make it easier for black founders in the future um to follow in your footsteps. So that's really, you know, that's what I'm focused on.

• 28:13Guy Raz?

  Yeah. What do you want to take away with you from this moment, you know, in five years' time, when you, when you're running this company, which will be much bigger, and you look back at this moment, um you say, I learned that then, and I'm so glad that we've carried it into what we do today. What, what would that thing be?

• 28:30Speaker 01

  I think that I'm glad that we've remained one focused on, on this space barber shops um and putting our customers first. That, that's one of our core values. Um, customers are our life, lifeblood. And I think that when this happened, nobody expected it. Um, nobody expected, you know, pretty much all of our customers to be shut down and not operating. Uh, we had to make some decisions about what to do. And we optimized for doing what would provide the most value uh to them. So you know, we immediately switched focus to, you know, how can we help these people during this time when they're not making money? How can we help them keep the doors open so that when the shutdown is over, they can reopen their doors?

• 29:14Speaker 01

  And I think that so far, it looks like those decisions were the right decisions, just because of the way, you know, our customers in the market and the industry has reacted. And also, uh, we're seeing, you know, the features that we've rolled out actually really, you know, helping them reopen successfully. So hopefully we'll look back and we'll say, you know what, we made the right decision and Lord knows what crises await us in the future. But uh, uh, we, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna have the same approach. You know, that, that will enable Esquire to be successful. If we can make our customers successful, we'll be successful.

• 29:48Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Song, thank you so much for joining us.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

• 29:53Guy Raz?

  That's an excerpt from my conversation with Song Laron, the co-founder of Squire. To see our full interview, you can go to facebook.com/HowIBuiltThis. Just click on Videos. And if you want to see all our past live interviews, you can also find them there or at youtube.com/NPR. If you want to find out more about the How I Built This Resilience series or other virtual NPR events, you can go to nprpresents.org. This episode was produced by Candace Lim with help from Ali Prescott, El Mannion, Gianna Capadona, John Isabella, Julia Carney, Neva Grant, and Jeff Rogers. Thanks for listening. Stay safe, and I'll see you back here in a few days.

• 30:35Guy Raz?

  I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This from NPR.