Advice Line with Shazi Visram of Happy Family Organics

Today’s callers: Daisy in the United Kingdom looks to grow her barefoot shoe brand across the pond in the United States. Then Rachel in Pennsylvania considers private labeling for her protein-packed sprinkles. And Andrew in California wonders whether he should seek investment for his pleasantly-scented soil additive. Plus, Shazi discusses why entrepreneurship is one of the most creative outlets a person can have. Thank you to the founders of Freet Barefoot, SprinkleBites, and PlantAmika for being a part of our show. If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode—where Guy and former show guests take questions from early-stage founders—leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to [email protected] mailto:[email protected] or call 1-800-433-1298. And be sure to listen to Happy Family Organics’ founding story https://art19.com/shows/831bd173-0992-41b7-b1eb-112db904d947/episodes/7c0de9e5-e9fc-4cd1-b3bc-bdec20831d04/embed as told by Shazi in 2020. This episode was produced by Sam Paulson with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Robert Rodriguez. You can follow HIBT on X https://x.com/HowIBuiltThis & Instagram https://www.instagram.com/howibuiltthis/ and sign up for Guy’s free newsletter at guyraz.com http://guyraz.com/ or on Substack https://guyraz.substack.com/. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Guy Raz?

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• 4:25Guy Raz?

  Hello and welcome to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on this show, who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. All right, let's get to it. This week, I'm joined by Shazi Visram. She's the founder of the baby food company Happy Family Organics and, more recently, a new baby products company, Healthy Baby. Shazi, it's great to have you back on the show.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  It's so fun to be here, Guy. Nice to see you.

• 5:09Guy Raz?

  It's great to see you. And you were first on the show back in January of 2020. And as always, to anyone listening, we'll put a link to it in the show notes. It's a great episode. You started Happy Family Organics around 2003. When you realized it was really hard for parents to find good tasting, organic baby food, and you became an advocate for improving nutrition and how children are fit in the US. And then about a decade after launching the company, you sold it. And right around that time, your son was diagnosed with progressive autism. And since we last spoke, I know you've started another company for new parents and their young children called Healthy Baby. Tell us a little bit more about it.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I think along my journey and knowing so much about creating products for babies, I've learned that with autism and developmental health, there's just so much we can do to create a better environment for our growing babies. I think that as we are evolving as a society, we've been putting things into our bodies that weren't originally meant to be there. And so, yeah, Healthy Baby is a brand that creates the healthiest, safest, high-performing products for new families. Our diapers are a kind of world-class, really high-quality, high-performing, made with no chemicals of harm, which in today's world... There are so many that can actually harm your baby's nervous system.

• 6:37Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  We pair the product with meaningful developmental content so that parents can feel regulated and calm and ultimately have a more connected, healthier life.

• 6:46Guy Raz?

  Yeah, I mean, what you're talking about, of course, there is, there's a lot of momentum behind this.

• 6:54Guy Raz?

  You know, I remember when my wife was pregnant with our first child, you know, in 2008, people were just starting to talk about BPA, you know, at that time. Now it's so mainstream and, I mean, the, the offerings haven't fully matched the momentum, right? And so I guess that's the sort of the thinking behind Healthy Baby, which is, you know, you could develop a line of products that people can just trust. They don't need to think about it. They, it's just, they know that all these things are not in there. VOCs and parabens and phthalates and all those weird things.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  I know, it sounds crazy, but yeah, we have to innovate and we have to create better materials and we have to make those materials without the use of these chemicals and other things that we've relied on for so many years. I mean, and I love being innovative. It's like a cool way to use design and new fabrics and new materials and find a better way to make something because you care and also because it needs to work.

• 7:53Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  And, you know, that's what makes for a good business. You can't just like care a lot and have a great mission and the product doesn't work.

• 8:00Guy Raz?

  Yeah. I mean, you've been through this rodeo once. You have built a company, you know how hard it is to build, and the hardest thing is to build a brand. It's even harder now than when you started Happy Baby. It's easy, the barriers to entry are easier in some ways, but the brand building is so much harder because the, our tension is just, it's, it's being divided, right? By a million different things.

• 8:24Guy Raz?

  So what is the ambition?

• 8:27Speaker 01

  I mean, for me, I've already sold a business. And so the second time, a little bit of that pressure is off.

• 8:35Guy Raz?

  Right.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  At the same token, I think having, but starting a business, besides having a baby, is the most creative thing you can do. And you can literally create a living, breathing work of art.

• 8:46Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  And Guy, I mean, you've contributed to making entrepreneurship cool. Like when I went to business school.

• 8:51Guy Raz?

  Doing my best.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Which, well, I went because I wanted to like have better tools in my toolbox so that one day I could start a business that was big and meaningful. And what was funny is I was like one of the few entrepreneurs. And at that time, everyone was an investment banker consultant.

• 9:07Guy Raz?

  Right.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  And I felt like the freak of the business school. And now more of the younger generation are realizing, hey, I'm not going to live that norm. And if that track isn't going to work, because the world is changing with tech, and I'm smart, and I'm adaptive, and I'm entrepreneurial, I'm going to find my way.

• 9:23Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  And let them find their way.

• 9:25Guy Raz?

  Yeah, absolutely. Um, Shazi, I think we should take advantage of your expertise and experience and bring on some callers and see if we can help them out. What do you say? You ready?

• 9:35Speaker 01

  I am, I'm always ready.

• 9:36Guy Raz?

  All right, let's bring in our first caller. Welcome to the advice line. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  Hey, Guy. Hey, Shazi. And my name's Daisy, and I'm calling from the UK. And so I'm the daughter of the founder of Freet Barefoot. So we're a family-run barefoot shoe brand with the mission to give people freedom for their feet by making shoes that allow natural movement with a focus on comfort and durability.

• 10:02Guy Raz?

  Awesome. Welcome to the show, Daisy. We've done several big shoe brands like On and Hoka on the show and a couple of others. And I'm very familiar with barefoot running shoes. I don't use them as much anymore, but I still like them for exercise and working out. So tell me about how Freet Barefoot was started.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  So it was started by my dad after he'd been suffering with knee pain. This is about fifteen years ago. Someone introduced him to barefoot shoes and it just kind of completely changed the game for him. And it seemed so simple, but allowing his feet to move naturally and move all the muscles within the foot meant stronger feet, which in turn meant less pressure on his knees. And he now often boasts that his knees are better at sixty than they were at forty. So through that, he started his own barefoot shoe brand, Freet, with my mum. And the name literally means freedom for free. So we make a range of products from barefoot hiking boots to barefoot leather sandals, trail running, kid's shoes, gym shoes.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  Kind of got quite a lot of SKUs now as we've grown as a brand.

• 11:09Guy Raz?

  And primarily you sell through shops or online now?

• 11:15Speaker 02

  So when we started, we were primarily wholesale, especially, you know, in Europe, there's a really big barefoot shoe market. But as we've grown, I'd say that our D to C has grown a lot and that is by pairs sold, I think we sell about the same wholesale and D to C. But D to C is the big profit driver for us now.

• 11:38Guy Raz?

  All right. Tell me a little bit about your sales. Last year, for example, how'd you guys do?

• 11:43Speaker 02

  So last year, we did two million revenue in dollars. And that's across three regions. So that's UK, US, EU. But our biggest market currently is the UK where we're kind of most well known.

• 11:57Guy Raz?

  Got it. And are you, Daisy, are you taking over the company from your dad?

• 12:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that's the plan. At the moment, I've kind of come in as sales and marketing director. Because of my, the last ten years, that's what I've done myself. But the plan is sort of from next year, I will take over the business full time with my dad still supporting on product side of things.

• 12:17Guy Raz?

  Got it. Okay, before we jump into your question, just a question for you, which is how do you guys position your shoes in a way that differentiates you from?

• 12:27Guy Raz?

  You know, whatever else is out there.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  So we're really well known within the industry for the level of comfort that our shoes have. We feel that that differentiates ourselves from other competitors who have maybe called themselves barefoot, but maybe not truly wide fit as we are and will always be. I'd say the other thing is really our outdoor background. So my dad's a big outdoors man, we're a big outdoors family. So our shoes, they're built for the outdoors, they're built to go hiking in and kind of have all of the comfort and the durability that people may not equate to barefoot shoes traditionally.

• 13:04Guy Raz?

  All right, cool. And tell us your question that you have for us.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  Yes, so Shazi, in your episode, you talked about a few of the key pivotal moments for growth for Happy Family Organics, which was so interesting. As I look to grow our brand in the US and have our own breakthrough moment, there are so many potential levers, so PR, B2B expansion, digital influencers. How do you decide what's sort of truly prioritize in order to scale the business in the States?

• 13:33Guy Raz?

  All right, Shazi, I want to bring you in. Say hello to Daisy from Free Barefoot. First of all, before you answer the question, do you have any questions for Daisy?

• 13:43Speaker 01

  Well, it's such a great market for children as well. And I'm just wondering, is there any science that that you can leverage to kind of showcase how much proprioception or how many nerves or how much a compressed foot develops differently than a free one? Because I'm assuming that I'm assuming the foot is really well designed by nature.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. There are so many muscles in our foot. And obviously, when you're wearing, especially little kids with little, little feet as they're growing, if you're not able to use that full function and all those muscles within the foot, your foot naturally becomes weaker and more reliant on kind of support through more traditional shoes. So definitely, there's, there's plenty of science to back up that, that our brand and what we stand for.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  As a parent, whenever someone tells you that there is a better way that actually supports your baby's developing body, your child's developing body, I feel like it's, it's easier to kind of hook them, given how. How crowded the space is in running. And I can't help it, I'm a baby person. But I think what I love about baby food or diapers is it's FMCG. So fast moving consumer goods. I remember, you know, as soon as my son would find a pair of shoes, if it was the right fit on Zappos, it was basically all I would ever do is every five months, I would be buying the next half size up. And I could see that with your brand and your business. So you're getting their repeat purchase. I would think that that would be kind of a holy grail.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  I mean, because I would want you to have that FM part of the CG.

• 15:22Guy Raz?

  I agree. I think that, you know, I'm looking at your website here, Daisy. And, you know, I don't get the sense that you're leaning into the benefits of this. And there is research. I mean, you, obviously, you want to be careful. It's because, you know, somebody can always say, hey, you know, you promised this and you didn't deliver. But, but there is research. And, and, and so you can position from the get go, this idea, maybe like, like the way humans were designed to move or the way we were supposed to walk. Because I think that, that that is, that's the key. I mean, part of, even though there are other brands out there, it's still an educational, sort of educational led product. You're still educating people about this. Because a lot of people, even now, you know,

• 16:08Guy Raz?

  decades after this, this movement has started, are like, really? Don't you need cushioning? So I'm curious, where, like, have you used any, any marketing channels, you know, at all that have, that seem to be working or worked? Or gave you sort of data that suggested that, you know, there was a return on that?

• 16:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I use Meta Ads and I use them in the US. And I find a really good return on those. And I really like tracking through that. So we obviously do organic social as well. But for me, yeah, the paid ads on Meta have been the best.

• 16:45Guy Raz?

  That's been the best. Okay, what else?

• 16:47Speaker 02

  Uh. We use Google Ads, but again, it's not something that I see huge return on investment. Um. We work with a lot of barefoot influencers um within the US. So there's um Anya, Anya's Review. She's a really well-known, respected um influencer. So we've got a brilliant relationship with her.

• 17:05Guy Raz?

  Has she helped sales as she moves?

• 17:07Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah, and we we she has a code, so we know that, you know, she's brilliant for kind of getting our brand out there. Um. And we go to trade shows in the US and kind of we're trying to just make our presence more well-known there.

• 17:21Guy Raz?

  And what about PR? You haven't tried PR yet?

• 17:23Speaker 02

  So we're just starting PR. Actually, we've just brought on um a small team to help us with that from this month. So I'm really excited to see how that kind of has an impact, but it's brilliant to hear your and Shazi's um point of views on the angles that we should really be focusing on. Um. So that's brilliant feedback to have.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Well, I also think, um, I don't know about you, Guy, but chat is like my best friend in terms of, I mean, I just bought a house in Colorado because chat identified the house and we bought it. So um but if if he can help me find, his name's Saul, my chat, but um how how are you findable on ChatGPT for the next generation of sort of um search? Because what I what I've found, especially with Healthy Baby, um is because we have so much science and I keep going back to it. But the science that is um validated third party with doctors and based with with research, it tends to actually allow people to find us because chat is is identifying not just the product,

• 18:26Speaker 01

  but also the work and the research and the science. So I'm I'm wondering if you have like a chat strategy.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, so um I went to a brilliant conference in the UK about AI recently. And after that, I went through our entire website and especially like the about pages and the technology pages and sustainability pages and made sure that they were optimized in a way that chatbots like ChatGPT can easily pick off um information. We also, we use Shopify and through Shopify, I think there's a function that allows the chatbots to help shop through and kind of find our products through them. Um. But yeah, I'm sure there's more that we could be doing.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  I'm only saying it because there are a billion diaper brands and Healthy Baby shows up in chat as the safest or the cleanest one, if you ask. I don't know if it's just doing it to appease me, but it is the best new shopping tool, I think, and place for discovery when people start asking.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  We recently, last month, we were in a big UK national newspaper and voted like the most comfortable barefoot shoe brand. So I think having that backlink and having that has really kind of helped us be recommended within chat and it's helped sales overall, of course, having kind of a regarded publication say that. So hopefully-

• 19:46Guy Raz?

  What was the publication?

• 19:48Speaker 02

  The Guardian.

• 19:49Guy Raz?

  Yeah, why isn't that on your front page? The name the most comfortable barefoot shoe by, you know, the Guardian poll.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:55Guy Raz?

  Like right at the front.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. We do need to talk about it more.

• 20:00Guy Raz?

  Yeah, I mean, I think that's something you should push. How is your, how are retention rates or reorder rates? I mean, do you have data around that?

• 20:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's good. And we often, we have people maybe come in through their kids and then the mother's looking for a good pair of shoes for their kids and then they buy their own pair. Or we get people who come in through definitely hiking and trail running. And then once they've got one pair of Frieze, that's it. Like they are now like, oh, do you do a sandal for my holiday? Do you do a, like a gym shoe? You know, once someone's got one pair of Frieze, they become quite a loyal fan. There's not normally any going back.

• 20:40Guy Raz?

  In your case, it sounds like you've got a strong retention, strong fan base. I mean, the value of repeat orders, especially in your case, is like infinitely higher than right now than the customer acquisition costs. Because customer acquisition costs are high for everybody. It's just, that's just the way it is. They're very high right now. And you can use your existing customers as force multipliers. I see that you've got some testimonials on the site, but what about seeing if you can create user-generated content? You know, have your fans show how they use the product and offer them a 20%

• 21:21Guy Raz?

  discount coupon or 25% if they're willing to post it with a hashtag or something.

• 21:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, that's really nice. We had, we did one piece of UGC recently and then I boosted that and it performed so well for us. We've almost sold out of that product in the US warehouse.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 21:37Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  I think our, our customers and the people that like the brand want to have, see that authenticity coming through.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  You know, now that you're investing in P, PR, know that if you don't leverage it, it's like did a bear shit in the woods.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  Because that's a really great honor to say the most comfortable shoe. And now you're about to start getting all of these PR hits. And I feel like in my prior life, I've gotten such a ton of press and it, it was more meaningful then in a purchasing, decision-making situation than it, than it is now. So when you get the PR now, you have to leverage it for the digital ad to make sure that, that it continues to live on because people see it asynchronously.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  You know, it used to be like if every, if everyone's watching the Today Show together, we are all going to learn about this baby food company. But it's not that way now. So you might be on the Today Show, but you need to leverage the clip all the time.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  So just be ready with your team to sort of make that a machine.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, that is fantastic advice. Need to leverage it a lot more, I think, than I have been.

• 22:47Guy Raz?

  Well, I think, I mean, listen, you got your marching orders, Daisy. So go, go forward, go forth. The brand is called Freak Barefoot. Good luck with it.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  Good luck.

• 22:56Guy Raz?

  Awesome. Congrats.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Thanks so much, guys.

• 22:58Guy Raz?

  Thank you. We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question and another round of advice. I'm Guy Raz and we're answering your questions right here on the Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.

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• 26:55Guy Raz?

  Welcome back to the Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz, and my guest today is Shazi Visram, founder of Happy Family Organics and Healthy Baby. Shazi, are you ready for another call?

• 27:05Speaker 01

  Yes, let's go.

• 27:07Guy Raz?

  All right, let's bring in our next caller. Welcome to the show. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  Hi, I'm Rachel. I'm calling from the greater Philadelphia area. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Sprinkle Bites, and we make the world's first protein sprinkles in a single-serve packet.

• 27:23Guy Raz?

  Wow, okay, welcome to the show, Rachel. I love that. Protein is, protein is king. Protein has exploded. It's protein water, protein gummies, protein. So protein sprinkles, like sprinkles you put on ice cream?

• 27:35Speaker 03

  Yep, like Jimmy's.

• 27:36Guy Raz?

  Like Jimmy's, right. And are they just the chocolate and then the colored ones, like the candy-colored ones?

• 27:43Speaker 03

  Right now, we just have chocolate and blueberry.

• 27:47Guy Raz?

  And blueberry, okay, cool. Oh yeah, a lot of questions for you. How did this idea come about? I mean, you can put protein in almost anything, but sprinkles? Who knew?

• 27:59Speaker 03

  Well, my co-founder and I are both full-time working moms. We are very busy and we only get about two hours a day with our children. And we don't want to spend those two hours fighting with them and negotiating with them on what to eat. And we just wanted to be happier with them in the little time that we had. So Nicole came up with this idea around sprinkles because she's Dutch. And in the Netherlands, they eat 30 million pounds of sprinkles a year. And they eat it on toast for breakfast. So we thought, well, why don't we use that as the Trojan horse and sneak in some function and protein and fill them up if they love eating sprinkles so much?

• 28:40Guy Raz?

  So this is a, this is something that I think a lot of people in the United States would find really weird that, and it's also in Australia. They take bread and they spread it with butter and put sprinkles on it. It's called fairy bread. And I guess in the Netherlands, they put chocolate sprinkles on bread and that's breakfast. So, so that's a thing, right? That's a thing. And that was the, that was sort of the inspiration behind this, behind starting this?

• 29:05Speaker 03

  Exactly. If we can make sprinkles mainstream here in the States, it has to have a better-for-you, you know, angle to it. One in seven school-aged kids don't get enough protein. A lot of them are picky eaters. So it's really hard to get my kids to eat meat. And my middle one has ADHD, so his medication suppresses his appetite. And making food fun helps with getting them eat in general, but also try new things. And what makes food fun? Sprinkles.

• 29:36Guy Raz?

  Yeah, all right. So five grams of protein, so a little bit less than an egg. By the way, how much do you have to eat to get five grams?

• 29:42Speaker 03

  Um, one single-serve packet.

• 29:44Guy Raz?

  I got you. Okay. And, and tell me a little bit about the, about sales right now. You're selling direct-to-consumer only, mainly?

• 29:51Speaker 03

  Yes, we launched our product in August. We are at-

• 29:55Guy Raz?

  Of last year.

• 29:56Speaker 03

  Of last year, yeah. We've surpassed 100,000 in sales.

• 30:00Guy Raz?

  Since then, okay.

• 30:01Speaker 03

  Since then, yeah. We've sold on our Shopify site with Meta Ads. And then we launched in Thrive Market in December. We got reorder in 30 days. So we were moving 88-pack boxes a week for 13 weeks straight.

• 30:17Guy Raz?

  Got it, okay. Before we dive in further, what is your question for us?

• 30:20Speaker 03

  Sure. So as you know, in CPG, it's very hard to manage cash flow and to get early traction. So should we consider private labeling to allow a larger retailer or larger brand establish our category of functional sprinkles on shelf and educate the consumers for us? Since that can be costly when you're trying to disrupt something and create a new category? And then Sprinkle Bites enters as the premium brand on shelf later on. So I'd love to know your thoughts around this approach and what the pros and cons should be.

• 30:57Guy Raz?

  All right, whether to enter private labeling. All right, I want to bring you on, Shazi. Thoughts, ideas, questions for Rachel?

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Wow, so much. Do they taste good? I kind of want to try it and see if it works on my daughter. Well, I think this is, I think your question is a solid one. And I would just remind you that anybody who has a private label brand or any retailer, they're typically, you know, a private label is typically a mass manufactured version of something they know that already sells well. And so, you know, I'm just immediately thinking of like Fruit Riot. Have you heard of Fruit Riot? It's like on fire right now. There was a, it was a kind of a TikTok trend of these grapes in like a sour candy shell.

• 31:47Speaker 01

  And actually another founder, he, they commercialized the idea and it's such a TikTok thing. And I could see this being similar. But I don't see the owner of a private label brand doing that kind of creative storytelling and marketing to turn it into the thing you want it to be. And I'm not certain that doing that is so expensive anyway. And it sounds like you already have traction. So why would you give away the additional margin? And what product would you create for them that would be less premium? You know, I feel like that's a lot of work to build someone else's potential business that might or might not care or keep it, whereas you're really invested in in your sprinkles being the sprinkles.

• 32:32Guy Raz?

  It's early days, but do you have any information about who's buying? Because you know, oftentimes people start brands and they think I'm selling this to people like me, right? You're probably thinking, oh, we're going to sell to moms and their kids are going to is that, do you know if that's who's buying the product?

• 32:48Speaker 03

  Most of them are moms between ages 28 and 45 with young kids. The other surprise are bodybuilders and fitness communities, which we did not think would love a packet of five grams of protein. We thought they want more than that, right? But the reality is every little bit counts and they're loving putting them on top of their Ninja Creamies, their protein ice cream. So like the fitness community loves us and then the GLP one community.

• 33:19Guy Raz?

  You're using, I look at your ingredients, you're using monk fruit and erythritol as sweeteners that does not spike insulin. Whole Foods sells it, so there, I don't think Whole Foods sells things with allulose, but they do sell things with erythritol. And so it has a high sweetness level, tastes good, but it doesn't have the same impact on blood sugar.

• 33:43Speaker 03

  Correct. We wanted to come out first with our MVP being sugar free. Diabetes is on the rise. We really wanted kids with diabetes to also enjoy sprinkles.

• 33:52Guy Raz?

  All right. So you're, you're sort of trying to figure out whether it makes, I have, I have, I agree with Shazi in general, but disagree also. Look, there are obvious pros to working with, to doing a private label. You're going to get immediate volume.

• 34:08Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 34:08Guy Raz?

  Right? And then, I mean, it's cash, it's, it's money right away. It's predictable and it's going to scale and it's going to help you negotiate better deals with your co manufacturer. And it gets you more awareness, right? I mean, basically, people are like, oh, protein sprinkles. Okay, the downside is you then introduce your brand after people are buying, you know, the Trader Joe's protein sprinkles, right? Or the, you know, the Target brand. And they're like, oh, well, this one's cheaper, right? And what's the difference? So it's, it's a huge risk. I mean, I think that most American kids eat sprinkles on ice cream.

• 34:52Guy Raz?

  They don't eat sprinkles on toast. It's just not a thing here. So that's requires some education to say, hey, here's how to use it. Put your sprinkles in yogurt. Put your sprinkles on, you know, your breakfast cereal, whatever it might be. You're adding five grams of protein. Right. That, that's, and the thing is, no one's doing this, right? I don't think there's any other protein sprinkles brands out there. And so, so that's, those are the cons, which is you don't want somebody else to have a private label and then you come in and feel like, oh, look at this sprinkle bites, just trying to jump on the bandwagon, right? And that's it, game over. Yeah.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Well, also, I mean, this, I mean, you're right, Guy, in one sense, that if you were able to find a private label contractor that wants a certain amount from you and you don't ever expect to be on shelf next to them, that could be a differentiating strategy. I'm, I'm almost thinking, you know, sort of launching it at Safeway, but selling it at Whole Foods and Amazon. I could see that, it being two separate brands, I could see that sort of working. But to me, it seems like there's so much educating to do. What we ended up doing with our business and I think why it became much more successful is that we created an easier version of organic, to consume something organic easier.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  And it made it more convenient and it was already something somebody wanted and you weren't trying to change their behavior. So, yeah, I mean, I, I do think that, that if you have a, have someone that can order and create additional cash flow for you, it's probably worth considering it. But then at the same token, I wouldn't, I wouldn't take the gas off of the educating.

• 36:36Guy Raz?

  Here, here's my idea, I got an idea. So, all right. How about instead of thinking about a private label, which again, it's tempting because it's cash in hand, but it can really bite you in the butt, you know, in the next year, two or three or five. What about looking at brands that are in protein that you could mix this in with? Like Chobani has a protein yogurt. I mean, it's not easy to work with them because they're huge and you guys are tiny, but who knows? I mean, they might say, hey, you know what? This is interesting. You get 20 grams of protein in a Chobani yogurt, but you get a little packet of sprinkles and that's another five grams of protein. Just 25 grams of protein. Bam, that could be interesting. I would, I would really see if you can lean on that.

• 37:20Guy Raz?

  And the other thing, and this is a totally out there idea, but I don't like to think it's actually out there, too out there. You could, you could, you could call this a protein and fiber sprinkles. You could add chicory root powder to it. And instantly you've got fiber and protein in your yogurt.

• 37:38Speaker 03

  Yep, yep. So we're doing both. We're reformulating. Our vision is to sneak in the function, have sprinkles be the Trojan horse. So yes, we have fiber added into sprinkles. We have superfoods in the sprinkles. We have different functionalities.

• 37:55Guy Raz?

  Spinach powder or whatever, yeah.

• 37:57Speaker 03

  It's amazing. Our matcha vanilla coming out soon. They're amazing. So we totally agree with you about adding fiber and adding, adding other functionality. The other piece, yes, in order to get the education, the brand awareness, the distribution, right, is to co-brand. Exactly like you said. Some yogurt brands like Fay won't co-brand. They won't put someone else's logo on their stuff. Fine, buy us in bulk as an inclusion. I'm fine with that. Chobani, yeah, it would be so cool. They do co-brands. And that would give us the credibility and trust as well, which is so important. So that's part of our growth strategy.

• 38:37Guy Raz?

  Protein pints. There's a protein brand of ice cream out there and it's, it's just starting now. Makes perfect sense. It's easy. You can shove a lot of protein in something that's basically cream, milk and eggs, right? So Shazi, any last thoughts before we send Rachel off with her marching orders?

• 38:56Speaker 01

  You know, I'm just, I'm excited to see you break through and we'll be looking, looking for it at Thrive.

• 39:02Guy Raz?

  Sprinkle Bites, Rachel Kane, thanks for calling in. Good luck. Thank you. All right, we're gonna take another quick break, but we'll be right back with one more caller. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to The Advice Line right here on How I Built This Lab.

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• 40:47Guy Raz?

  Welcome back to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz and today I'm taking your calls with Shazi Visram, founder of Happy Family Organics and Healthy Baby. So, Shazi, let's get back into it and take another call.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  Fantastic.

• 41:03Speaker 07

  Hi there. My name is Andrew Graff. I'm calling in today from Laguna Beach, California. I have worked on creating a pleasantly scented soil additive, a product that you can add to your soil and when you water it, it releases a pleasant scent while also providing nutrients to your plant.

• 41:21Guy Raz?

  Cool. All right. Welcome to the show, Andrew. So, so explain, these are, it's a additive?

• 41:27Speaker 07

  Right. It comes in a pellet form.

• 41:29Guy Raz?

  Okay.

• 41:30Speaker 07

  And you apply it to your indoor or outdoor plant.

• 41:33Guy Raz?

  You mix it with the soil or you just sprinkle it on top?

• 41:36Speaker 07

  Just sprinkle it on top, on the top of the soil. And when you water it, it breaks down the biopolymer, which is made out of chitosin and sodium alginate, ocean derived, and releases an essential oil. Currently, I have a lavender and lemon eucalyptus scent.

• 41:52Guy Raz?

  And this is because indoor plant, I'm just trying to think, I've got a bunch of indoor plants. Are they, I don't, I can't remember them smelling bad. Do they smell bad?

• 42:02Speaker 07

  Well, it's not about the plant smelling bad, but almost having a natural diffuser in your house instead of having a plug-in or burning a candle. It's kind of a sensory experience that you're interacting with the plant. That's how I first started it. The idea first came to me while fertilizing my plants and I thought this could definitely smell better. And then I just went down, you know, the Google rabbit hole to see if there was anything like this and I couldn't find anything. So I reached out to chemists to help me develop this idea. And, you know, I even, I even worked on obtaining a patent, which I got published. And yeah, so I'm in the early stages right now of, you know,

• 42:44Speaker 07

  testing it with friends and family and in my own garden, my own outdoor space. I work in residential real estate and I can tell how, you know, the interaction of scent with perception of, of the environment really matters.

• 42:59Guy Raz?

  Yes. This is why when you walk into like a Williams Sonoma, they sell their scents. You can buy the Williams and Williams Sonoma scent or the Crate and Barrel scent. It's interesting and you see this in a lot of stores. Okay. So your real estate is, I love that. And clearly I can now make the connection because you're showing people houses and you're like, and, and you, you know, there's all these sensory things and they're in the house and they're always staged. And, but then you've got the scent.

• 43:24Speaker 07

  Right.

• 43:24Guy Raz?

  So, okay, before we dive in further, what's your question for us?

• 43:28Speaker 07

  So I'm at this early stage where I've, you know, worked on with a chemist, developing the product. I've worked with a lawyer on obtaining the patents with the manufacturer, making my first batch, and also soil testing as well. All of this is, you know, proving to be costly. And I haven't quite, I have some sales, you know, I bring it to, to, you know, as a host gift and people end up buying it from me, but it's a very limited amount of sales. And it's a, it feels like a new category. So I'm trying to figure out how to, if I should work on courting investors, or if I should try to prove traction with retail or direct to consumer.

• 44:08Guy Raz?

  Got it. Okay. Shaz, I want to bring you in. You've been in this position before where, you know, you've got a new product and you bring investors. What do you do? Thoughts or questions for Andrew before we dive into his question?

• 44:19Speaker 01

  It's fascinating to think of olfactory and plants and creating a deeper connection with nature. So I love that. If you're like really in this and you believe and it's your 100% thing, then you have to raise money from investors and you kind of go big or go home, is my feeling. I don't think you start this one on a bootstrappy, small way, because ultimately you want like Home Depot and you want, you want to be an option at every, every store that sells gardening supplies and you want to start in terrain. And I can just see, you know, I can see it becoming a craze and a phase. And now that you have the patent and the ability to produce it, I would, you know, I'd find a way to test

• 45:01Speaker 01

  and get it to the place where it's a product that you know people are going to love and want. So I don't know, that, that's my perspective is that if you want to go big with it, build a brand around it.

• 45:13Guy Raz?

  Yes.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  And, and really launch it.

• 45:17Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Andrew, how much have you put in so far to this project?

• 45:20Speaker 07

  I've put about 30,000 of my own capital into that, into the products.

• 45:25Guy Raz?

  And I see on your website, you are, it is for sale now. You can buy it through your website, right?

• 45:29Speaker 07

  Correct. Yeah.

• 45:30Guy Raz?

  Okay. But you haven't really officially launched? Is that the thing or what?

• 45:33Speaker 07

  That's right. I really wanted to prove it worked. I wanted to test it with my friends and family. I wanted, I sent it off to a soil analytic lab just to make sure that it wasn't going to kill your plant. And it's, it's helping them. And, you know, we're going to get more concrete scientific data on that soon. But I, I guess I kind of had some imposter syndrome and I didn't want to launch because I'm not, I don't come from this background, a biology background, or I'm not a horticulturist. So I've been kind of nervous about launching this into the public because I just wanted more concrete data behind me before, because I don't feel like I have authority right now on the matter of soil health.

• 46:14Guy Raz?

  Yeah, no, that's interesting. I mean, I think it's worth, you know, definitely worth having somebody who, and clearly a new you worked with, somebody who does have that expertise, maybe, maybe having somebody on the, you know, when you start to really push this out, talk about how it can actually improve your plants. I think your story as a real estate agent is interesting because you know what a great house looks like. I mean, you're staging houses for your clients. You know what makes it look good. And you know that part of that is, is how it smells. I think you're way too early to raise money. I mean, unless people want to give you money, right? I just think it's too early. You have to, especially if you want money on your own terms and you want, and you want to, you

• 46:59Guy Raz?

  know, maintain as much equity as possible. You've got to really launch it with what you can. And you want to track reorder rates. You want, you want to see customers posting about it. You want to see meaningful repeat demand.

• 47:16Speaker 07

  Right.

• 47:17Guy Raz?

  You want some unit economics. I think you, you want to have some data that you can go, even if it's six months to a year, that you can go to people and say, okay, hey, here's this thing. We've patented it. There's, you know, we've got a moat around it. I can see this in garden stores across the country. You know, it's an X billion dollar, multi-billion dollar industry. Indoor house plants, I don't know where it is. It's got to be huge. And candles are this, you know, you know, diffusers are this. And, and so we see a huge, huge opportunity here. But I think you do need some data before you can actually. Get money on your terms.

• 47:51Speaker 07

  Right, so you think I should go out to retail shops in town, which I've started early outreach and they're interested, but again, I'm figuring out branding, you know, and all this costs money while also, you know, doing my day job. So I guess that's why I was interested in fundraising, but I do believe I have enough inventory to at least get it onto some shelves and maybe prove the product first.

• 48:14Guy Raz?

  Even if you can go to one store and you have data from one store, right?

• 48:19Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 48:19Guy Raz?

  And you can stand there on a Saturday and give out little packets, sample packets of it and say, hey, go sprinkle this on your plant and just go, you know, go home and just try it.

• 48:30Speaker 07

  Right.

• 48:31Guy Raz?

  And then you get some data from that store, oh, after three to six months.

• 48:35Speaker 07

  Right.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  It is an opportunity to test and learn your messaging and your, you'll improve and develop the brand if you're open to testing and learning with

• 48:45Speaker 07

  Right.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  your sort of pilot partner. And, you know, in general, fragrance is a black box, like you don't have to share your ingredients with anyone. And I find fragrances to be really, I have a reaction, I don't know, it's just my neurology, but I have a reaction to most fragrances. And so if I walk into the department store, I get a headache right away, you know? And I think there is a really large population of people, especially just the folks who like love EWG, for instance, Environmental Working Group. If you had the first EWG verified soil additive, that could be like, you know, a unique angle because you're also saying, hey,

• 49:28Speaker 01

  you don't need to buy the candles, there's no plastic, there's no petroleum, there's no, so many other things that go into the production of the plugin or whatever the case might be. It's a cleaner alternative. And also to have a fragrance garden is really hard. I've tried, you know, jasmine and all the things to plant and sometimes I'm lucky, but it'd be nice to have a consistently like beautiful fragrant garden.

• 49:52Speaker 07

  You know, my friends have been using this and whenever I walk into their house, this whiff of the lemon eucalyptus comes through and I just smile, you know, just, and it's not overwhelming because I do know that people have, you know, sensitivities. So it's just kind of a pleasant scent that fills the space while also benefiting your plant as well in the soil health.

• 50:12Guy Raz?

  Yeah, it's really an interesting idea and I think you've got something here, but

• 50:17Guy Raz?

  You got to test and learn. Test and learn, Andrew.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Test and learn and then call Martha Stewart.

• 50:21Guy Raz?

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Plantamika is the brand. Andrew, good luck. Thanks for calling in, man. Thank you, guys. Yeah, cheers. Shazi, looking back, I mean, you are now in your second startup and looking back on your time building Happy Family, what do you wish you had known back then? What do you know now that you didn't know when you were first starting out that actually is helpful for you?

• 50:45Speaker 01

  I think there's a certain sense of earned confidence, but I'm not sure that you can know it without earning it. And I also think that every venture is a new venture and it's scary when someone expects you to put lightning in a bottle twice. That pressure is still there, you know? It's happy with such a huge, meaningful and like momentous success story and it's difficult to recreate, but of course, I'm committed. But it's, I think, too, just being, enjoying where you are in the moment without considering every single outcome actually allows you to enjoy the process. I mean, I miss, you know, I'm sure everybody who comes on the show is like, I really

• 51:30Speaker 01

  miss that time. I miss that time when we were broke. I miss that time when we couldn't pay payroll. I miss the feeling of being so like low and then leveraging your own human creativity to find a way out and win is a really fun thing to do. And I think it's not earned confidence, but it's like a belief in myself that whatever it is, I'm going to figure it out. If I care, I'll figure it out.

• 51:55Guy Raz?

  That's Shazi Visram, founder of Happy Family Organics and Healthy Baby. Shazi, thanks so much.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  It was so fun to be here.

• 52:02Guy Raz?

  It was great having you. By the way, if you haven't heard Shazi's original How I Built This episode, we will put a link to it in the show notes. You got to go check it out. It's a really great story. And here's one of my favorite moments from that interview.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  We launched with, I mean, it must be at least like 1,000 demos.

• 52:18Guy Raz?

  You would go and demo? Okay, yeah. What would you do?

• 52:20Speaker 01

  So you have like a table and you put down as much as you can to make it look nice and warm and fuzzy. And I'm standing there with a Happy Baby t-shirt on and you're trying to get people to sample these yummy foods that I'm thinking, I'm so proud of this. This has taken years to make this, you know? And you're standing there waiting for someone to come. And then barely anybody comes. And on the third time that I did a demo, I realized that this wasn't going to work.

• 52:53Guy Raz?

  Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. And by the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at guyraz.com or on Substack. And of course, if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues you are currently facing, because we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice memo at [email protected] or call us at 1-800-433-1298. You can leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And by the way, we'll put all of this in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Sam Paulson with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei.

• 53:37Guy Raz?

  It was edited by John Isabella and our audio engineer was Robert Rodriguez. Our production team at How I Built This also includes Alex Chung, Carla Estevez, Casey Herman, Chris Messini, Elaine Coats, J.C. Howard, Catherine Seifer, Carrie Thompson, and Neva Grant. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to the Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.