Advice Line with Holly Thaggard of Supergoop!

Supergoop! founder Holly Thaggard joins Guy on the Advice Line, where they answer questions from three founders about finding the right audience and introducing their brands. Today, we meet Christina, the founder of a Cincinnati cookie business who is trying to bake her business to the next level. Then Philadelphia-based engineer Andy introduces a shaving product he developed with his Navy bunkmate while they were deployed. And Erin in Illinois, who wants to make water sports safer with a life jacket upgrade. If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode, leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to [email protected] or call 1-800-433-1298. And be sure to listen to Holly tell the story of how Supergoop! was founded https://art19.com/shows/831bd173-0992-41b7-b1eb-112db904d947/episodes/13cef5f8-a566-4f56-bf88-59aa8cdbe6df/embed from her first visit to the show back in 2020. This episode was produced by J. C. Howard with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Gilly Moon. You can follow HIBT on Twitter https://twitter.com/HowIBuiltThis & Instagram https://www.instagram.com/howibuiltthis and sign up for Guy's free newsletter at guyraz.com http://guyraz.com/. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Guy Raz?

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• 0:45Guy Raz?

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• 1:30Guy Raz?

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• 4:23Guy Raz?

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• 5:07Guy Raz?

  Visit mobili fuels.com for details. Hello and welcome to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show, who will attempt with me to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with.

• 5:51Guy Raz?

  You can also send us a voice memo at [email protected]. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for free at guyraz.com. We'll put all this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Holly Thaggard. She's the founder of SuperGoop, the brand that made sunscreen cool again. Holly, welcome to the show. Thank you for coming back on. Guy, I'm super excited to be here today. All right. So Holly, you first came on to the show back in 2020's great episode,

• 6:32Guy Raz?

  of course, to tell the story of how you created Supergoop. And one of the really big challenges that you faced early on was explaining this product to people. You were trying to make the case that people should wear sunscreen every day, like they brush their teeth, that there wasn't something you should only use at the beach. And by the way, since that episode aired, I wanted to thank you for that because I wear sunblock on my face every day now because of you.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Love it.

• 7:00Guy Raz?

  Because I was starting to notice sunspots on my face. And I was like, hey, maybe sunblock. Obviously, you managed to make the case well because you went on to your brand Supergoop does hundreds of millions of dollars in sales every year. You're still the company's chairman. And we're going to be talking to a few founders today who are trying to enter new and niche markets and trying to figure out how do you explain the product to people when they're not fully aware of how to use it. So we talk about, we think about Supergoop in such a different way than how you originally launched it because it really was, it was like a brand designed with kids in school in mind. Like, your original

• 7:43Guy Raz?

  approach was, hey, let's build a brand that is in schools. And there are huge buckets of this stuff. And teachers and kids will constantly have access to this sunblock. And that strategy just didn't work. Like, anyone who's trying to deal with a public school district knows it's really challenging. You eventually pivoted and started to focus on consumers. But that wasn't the plan, right? I mean, that wasn't the model.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  No. First year out of college, I was a third grade school teacher. And it was later when my friend was diagnosed with skin cancer that I looked back at that time in the classroom and realized that we're not teaching our youth this healthy habit of wearing SPF every single day. Yet, we're telling them to wash their hands in the cafeteria. We have fences around the playground. And so my original idea was to create this brand and this formula, then get it into school classrooms. And you're right, I had to pivot because at the time, over the counter drugs were not allowed in schools. And, and, and they were thought of like you wouldn't send your kindergartner to school with Advil. And so it was a pivot, but I knew we still had a job to do in educating

• 8:54Speaker 01

  our youth. And over the course of these 20 years, I've also been a big advocate on Capitol Hill and been able to change these laws that are antiquated and that existed in schools today. We're up to, I think, 26 states that now allow SPF in schools for the reason of protecting our youth's skin, our body's largest organ. And so what a blessing that I was not offered a contract after my first year of teaching in a school, because my world kind of came crashing down after that first year. And I was not offered a return contract. And I couldn't understand how I had just finished college to do this. And looking back, I'm so grateful for not being offered that contract because I, I am, and still feel

• 9:35Speaker 01

  like I'm a teacher. I just have a much larger audience than the 17 third graders I had that year. And I'm a teacher in a much larger way.

• 9:44Guy Raz?

  Yeah, it's awesome. Holly, let's, let's take our first call.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  Oh, great. I'm so excited.

• 9:50Guy Raz?

  All right, caller, caller number one. Hello, welcome.

• 9:53Speaker 02

  Hi, hi, Holly and Guy. I'm so excited to be here.

• 9:57Guy Raz?

  Hi, please introduce yourself. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and briefly about your business.

• 10:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, my name is Christina Davis, and I'm calling in from Cincinnati, Ohio. And I'm one of the founders of Davis Cookie Collection. We specialize in delicious cookies made by hand with real ingredients.

• 10:17Guy Raz?

  Amazing. And what's your question for us today?

• 10:20Speaker 02

  My question is, how can we step back from daily business tasks and ensure that the business operates independently and efficiently, allowing us to focus on expanding our brand? And when is it a good time to find a mentor?

• 10:35Guy Raz?

  All right. Awesome. Well, thank you for calling in. Welcome to the show. First of all, tell us about how you got into the cookie business.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I was in grad school and it was extremely stressful. So I would bring samples of my cookies to class. I already knew how to make cookies from a young age, just watching my family. And one of my colleagues eventually offered to pay me $15 for a dozen of cookies. And at that moment, something clicked and I said, wow, I could start doing this as a business. I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. I just had no idea what that was gonna be. So the very next day, I presented this idea to my husband and a business was born. We knew one day we would have a large collection of cookies, which we do now. We have over 300 flavors. And we created a Facebook page. Everyone started ordering by the dozen and the rest was history.

• 11:21Guy Raz?

  Did you, did you do a job on the side or did you just jump into this business?

• 11:25Speaker 02

  So I was actually, I continued working the business while in grad school, while doing an internship, and also while working a full-time job. I just continued to work this business on the side.

• 11:35Guy Raz?

  What did you do?

• 11:36Speaker 02

  I was in school to be a social worker and then I worked at the UC Medical Center in the emergency room in Cincinnati. And I went ahead and graduated with my masters, became a social worker. But the business continued to grow so much that I had to resign from my job in 2019.

• 11:52Guy Raz?

  So you took the leap. You jumped into this thing full-time. And tell me where, what you guys have now. Do you have a shop? Like, how are you selling your cookies? Is it mainly online?

• 12:01Speaker 02

  So we have a cookie shop and we opened this location during the pandemic in 2020. And then we launched a cookie truck last year. And then we also have online sales and we launched our cookie dough at Kroger here at one location last year as well.

• 12:16Guy Raz?

  Oh, wow. So you sell your cookie dough at Kroger, which is based in Cincinnati, which is a good, Cincinnati's a great market to be in for obvious reasons, like Kroger's there, P&G is there, Scripps, some other really big companies are there. And also, it's like a good test market. A lot of companies test their products in places like Cincinnati and Columbus because there's a really, it like reflects the demographics of the US.

• 12:40Guy Raz?

  So tell me a little bit about what your hope is. Like, what are you guys trying to? To do.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  So we're really trying to scale the business. I feel like we're stuck right now trying to figure out how to do that. How do we allow the business to kind of run itself so that we can scale? We want to get into more locations, whether that's other grocery stores, maybe open more locations or launch more trucks, but we're just stuck. We've been in business almost, it's been 11 years, actually. And it's just kind of a tough spot right now. We're feeling some growing pains for sure.

• 13:12Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Do you, I mean, do you have like, you talk about looking for mentors or how to find them. Are you, are you part of like any organized community, like a church or a community group or anything like that?

• 13:26Speaker 02

  I'm a part of a mentorship program called Score, but it's not, it hasn't really been helpful in the sense of like how to scale and grow. So we kind of have hit the wall with that. And it's been really hard finding anyone here in Cincinnati that's willing to mentor also. It's been very, very challenging.

• 13:44Guy Raz?

  There are a couple of approaches that you, you may have taken and if not, might be worth thinking about, which is trying to build like an advisory board. A lot of startups do this before they build like a formal board. It's a very informal board and it's a group of people who might be given something like a promise of shares in the company in the future, or in your case, free cookies or something like that. But it's people who could really, whose skills are, you know, could be really useful. Like in your case, maybe it could be, you know, a successful business owner who's retired, or somebody who worked at Procter and Gamble who's retired, who worked in marketing and who still is in Cincinnati and who's just kind of has time.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  Okay. I think that's a great idea, Guy, because I think, I think people that are not in the business on a day to day can ask the tougher questions that you may not, you may not always be thinking about. And one of those tougher questions for me was like, Holly, what do you want to do as the founder of SuperGoop? And I know John Kenny of Colt Capital who came on as an early investor said to me, what is it that you want your day to look like? What is it that you're most passionate about? And for you, Christina, it might be making cookies. And it doesn't have to be running the company, but asking those kind of hard questions so that you can really think about what you deliver best for the brand, you know, might be really helpful.

• 15:09Guy Raz?

  Right now, presumably, you've got not, it's you and your husband who are the main full-time employees. Do you have any other full-time employees?

• 15:15Speaker 02

  No other full-time employees, but I do have eight part-time employees.

• 15:19Guy Raz?

  Right, helping you bake the cookies, obviously, I'm assuming, and make the dough.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, so right now, I'm actually baking all of the cookies myself and making the dough. So I know I need to probably turn that over at some point.

• 15:29Guy Raz?

  Right, because you can't scale yourself. You ultimately are gonna have, I mean, look, look at some of the greatest sort of chefs in the world. They have restaurant groups, and eventually, they really have to manage them, and they can't be in the kitchen all the time, but they can teach their techniques and their secrets to groups of people who can execute, and that's really what you have to do. One thought I had was, looking through your website and the business, was how, you know, the question I have is, how do you differentiate what you do, right? You make great cookies, but lots of people can make that case, right? There's Insomnia, and there's other, you know, cookie companies out there. So how is it that you can say, well, we're doing something slightly different, or we're offering something different? And I wonder whether

• 16:09Guy Raz?

  you play around with a couple of interesting, like, just kind of weird options, like, could you, could you play around with low-sugar cookies or high-protein cookies? You know, there's a lot of interest in, like, low-carb, high-protein, low-sugar products, you know? Just, just kind of play around with something like that. It's just a thought. I don't know. Holly, what do you think?

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I think that there is mention on the website of ingredients and processes from the south, and, and I don't think you even quite touch specifically enough about what is the special differentiator in the cookies that we're, you're selling. And I think I would probably encourage you to maybe think about, like, lots is not always better, and so maybe, like, fewer but more differentiated. And then, in your product photography and everything, I think if these are the most delicious cookies anyone has ever put in their mouth, that doesn't come across as much in the photography from the website, even from the leading discount copy about, you know...

• 17:14Speaker 01

  When I come to your website for the first time, I want to be sold on your cookie. I don't want to think about like, oh, I can buy more and get a discount because I haven't even tried one yet. So if DTC is your model and if, or if that's just like a sidebar to your retail store and your, and your cookie truck. Maybe thinking about the next three years as a shorter window of like, what do I want? Do I want to focus on grocery? Do I want to focus on my, my cookie truck? Do I want to focus on birthday parties? There seems to be a lot of areas that could be sucking the energy out of you. And maybe just like, think, hey, for the next two to three years, I am going to crush it on throwing

• 17:59Speaker 01

  cookie truck parties or what, you know, whatever those are, but like really think about in shorter chunks of time.

• 18:06Guy Raz?

  Yeah. And, and one other thought I had while you were, while you were talking, Holly, is if you're in that one Kroger in Cincinnati, I want to see one of your people there as often as you can get in there to sample the cookies, to just give out tastes of that cookie, to really try and crush it in that one Kroger. Because if that one Kroger can lead to five, I mean, you're in, if not the biggest, one of the biggest national grocery retailers in the United States. I mean, that's a huge, huge coup to be in there. And that's when you start to really get to talk to investors. Once you're in, you know, five, 10, 15, 20 Krogers, that's where you can really start to make the case to investors.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Christina, you cannot afford not to succeed in Kroger. I really believe if you focus all of your energy into that model of distribution, I can't tell you how many years I have taken a summer tour of Sephora stores and gone from LA to New York in every single one of their big doors and just thanked everybody in there for contributing to the success of our brand. And That went on for a decade of my life and I think it's a big opportunity for you.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 19:24Guy Raz?

  And also, there's an episode of How I Built This that, and again, I'm not, this is not, this is not to plug our show, but, but our show is designed to give people like you, starting small businesses, advice and wisdom from people who've been through it before. And we did a recent episode with a guy named Mike Sinyard, who founded Specialized Bicycles, a completely different category. You're not on bicycles, you're on cookies. But there's something in that episode that is critical that he did, which is, 20 years in, the business was suffering. They were in a crisis. They were about to go bankrupt. And you know what he did? He wrote a brand bible. He basically went on his computer and started just writing a diary, diary entries of what Specialized is about, what it represents. And then he started to kind of organize it. You know, simply by writing it down,

• 20:09Guy Raz?

  it allowed him to articulate what it was they were trying to do and be. And it also allowed him to hand that document to his employees. And they could gather around this shared vision. Now, obviously, you don't have a huge team, but if you could take the time to write it down, it might seem obvious, but it's actually could be really transformational for you to think about just putting together a short document about what it is you guys are and what you're trying to be for your customers. You'll be surprised at how much that can really open up channels of ideation and even innovation. Christine, any, any parting thoughts or final thoughts before we, we let you go?

• 20:50Speaker 02

  No, but I wanted to say thank you so much for having me on. My husband and I have been listening to this show for years. So this is definitely a dream come true. So thank you for all of the tips.

• 21:00Guy Raz?

  Well, thanks for being a listener and I hope our episodes and our future episodes will continue to help you and guide you and hopefully inspire you. So good luck.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 21:08Guy Raz?

  All right. Thank you. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. You know, this idea that even though a website is just one avenue, as you know, to your product, right? Because it could be in a store, you could find it at a retailer. The website kind of sets the tone, right? It signals to the consumer and also to your group internally, how you want to present yourself.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  It's the place the consumer goes to learn more about their brand. They may never even purchase from your website. The goal of the website is not to end up purchased. Well, I mean, I think our DTC business is probably a good chunk of our overall business, but our goal is to be a resource for education.

• 21:51Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  And then most consumers will go find you in the store.

• 21:55Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Holly, we're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, a water conserving shaving gadget designed by two former Navy engineers. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to the Advice Line right here on How I Built This Lab.

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• 24:29Guy Raz?

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• 25:50Guy Raz?

  Hey, welcome back to The Device Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz, and my guest today is Holly Thaggard, founder of SuperGoop. All right, Holly, let's get to our next caller. Hello, caller. Is this Andy?

• 26:03Speaker 03

  It's Andy Kemp, yes.

• 26:04Guy Raz?

  Andy, please introduce yourself. Tell us where you're calling from and briefly about your business.

• 26:09Speaker 03

  Sure. So my name's Anderson Kemp. I'm calling from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I'm the co-founder of The Clean Shave Company. We got our start last year to develop and launch our product, the Razor Rinser.

• 26:19Guy Raz?

  The Razor Rinser?

• 26:20Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 26:21Guy Raz?

  So this is a, just briefly, this is a product that does what?

• 26:25Speaker 03

  So it's essentially a big button set in a larger dish of water. You push down on that button with your razor head, and it shoots jets of water through your razor blades to dislodge the hair and gunk. And then the cool thing is that water flows back into the dish and gets recycled through filters. So you can use very little water the whole time you shave.

• 26:43Guy Raz?

  Oh, cool.

• 26:43Speaker 03

  And it's totally standalone, self-powered.

• 26:45Guy Raz?

  And what's your question for us today?

• 26:47Speaker 03

  Sure. So my question is, how do we explain the value of the Razor Rinser concisely and find our niche when, so far, we have three unique audiences who are passionate about our product, really for three totally different reasons?

• 26:58Guy Raz?

  All right. So just to kind of build a visual in my mind, I think it's sort of like, you know when you go to a bar, right? And the bartender has like a glass, and they clean it by putting it upside down on top of like a jet of water, and that jet of water just streams into that glass, and you've got a clean glass. This is kind of that, that's a similar kind of concept, right? But with a shaver.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  Right, exactly. So it's the same concept, except really built for multi-blade cartridge razors. So think of like Gillette or Harry's or whatever, whatever you shave with, it works with all of them. And the other cool thing is you're generating the power. So that device, you know, the glass rinsers relies on the water pressure in your house. This relies on the force of you pushing down with your razor head. It doesn't take very much, but as you push down, it forces the water through little jet slots, and that really flushes out all the hair and gunk in the same way that your blast does.

• 27:51Guy Raz?

  And the idea is that this saves a tremendous amount of water because you're not turning on the sink or even filling a basin. It's just how much water is used?

• 28:00Speaker 03

  Less than four ounces. I shaved for two weeks with one Nalgene full of water, which is 32 ounces, just to kind of demonstrate what you can do.

• 28:08Guy Raz?

  And not to give away too much information, but I do shave in the shower because I've got all those fogless mirrors. But that takes time, right? And so I'm in the shower and the water's going. So the idea with something like this is you don't need to use the sink at all.

• 28:21Speaker 03

  Right. Yeah. And part of the inspiration for this was just trying to dislodge the stuff from between those razor blades. Sometimes they're really close together and the sink doesn't do a good job of actually forcing out the gunk from between those blades. So this is a targeted blast of water versus your sink, which just kind of lets water wash over the blades. So it saves water, but and we're kind of hinting at part of my question here is, is people value it for different reasons, whether it's saving water or cleaning your razor blades more effectively?

• 28:50Guy Raz?

  Andy, what were you doing before you came up with this product? Because I think you invented this, right?

• 28:57Speaker 03

  Yes, that's correct. Me and my co-founder Matt Semple met in the Navy. We actually deployed together to the Red Sea in 2021 where we were roommates. So that looked like us and another guy shoved into a little 20 square foot room with a crummy stainless steel sink that saw a lot of action. You know, you had to shave every day, sometimes twice a day. So that sink was frequently gross. It was actually on one of those, you know, push button timeout flossits where you could only run the water for two seconds. So we cut a pencil to length so we could jam it so the water would stay running our whole shave. Anyway, we were shaving in a less than ideal situation, which kind of made us think about ways we could make the shaving process better. And by the end of

• 29:39Speaker 03

  that deployment, we had an outline for what would eventually become the razor rincer.

• 29:43Guy Raz?

  So I'm assuming you're an engineer by training?

• 29:46Speaker 03

  Yes, I'm a trained engineer from the Naval Academy where I actually did a lot of hydraulics work. So the kind of transition into how water moves and flows through, it's really just a little positive displacement pump. You know, it wasn't too difficult to make the leap from an engineering standpoint, but the... The key for us, we landed in San Diego. The public library there has an awesome maker space. So we were able to go after hours, once we got off the ship and prototype designs, you know, for free in their facility.

• 30:14Guy Raz?

  Wow.

• 30:15Speaker 03

  So it was a crazy public resource that just was huge for us. It was great.

• 30:18Guy Raz?

  And so now you've got this product out there. How did you finance it, by the way?

• 30:22Speaker 03

  Sure, so we actually took a tip from How I Built This and your episode with Christian from uni.

• 30:28Guy Raz?

  I love it.

• 30:28Speaker 03

  And launched on Kickstarter. Yeah, so we.

• 30:30Guy Raz?

  The uni pizza ovens.

• 30:31Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 30:31Guy Raz?

  Started on Kickstarter, yeah.

• 30:32Speaker 03

  I was literally listening to that episode while trying to figure out how I could make this thing at scale. And he said, I think his quote was, "All you really need is a prototype to launch on Kickstarter." And I said, "Hey, I've got a prototype, so we can do that."

• 30:45Guy Raz?

  I love it.

• 30:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:46Guy Raz?

  I love it. That's amazing. And how much did you raise?

• 30:48Speaker 03

  We raised almost $70,000. Our goal was $10,000, which we hit in two days. So we were blown away by the Kickstarter. It was great.

• 30:56Guy Raz?

  Amazing.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Congratulations.

• 30:57Guy Raz?

  Well, congrats on that. Holly, I mean, what an awesome story. Two guys in the Navy, deployed, want to solve a problem that they have. Now they've got a product. Any questions?

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I love the authenticity of the story of what you just described happened once, twice a day while you were in the Navy. And I think that sounds like it's the biggest problem you're solving for. I wonder if that could also translate to guys that are out camping. And I don't know if guys that camp actually care about shaving or not, but identifying a real targeted demographic who you're going to go after for this launch.

• 31:44Speaker 03

  Right. We recently thought of the van life market.

• 31:47Guy Raz?

  Oh, yeah.

• 31:47Speaker 03

  Where maybe you're on Zoom calls where you need to be clean shaven, but you know your water supply is limited. So kind of like camping, but you need to shave, right?

• 31:54Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  You know, next year will be our 20th year as a brand. And so in 2005, nobody was wearing SPF every single day. And so, and I was early inspired to change consumer behavior by innovating in a category that was very sleepy and bringing products that didn't exist to market. And I think it was a real key to the success that we've had as a brand by starting with a very targeted demographic that we were going after. And, you know, I coined that demographic, a mindful explorer, that was the right target for us because they sort of do things a little differently. And then I even further went down the path of where does that person shop? What do they do on the weekends?

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Do they have children? So identifying who that consumer is on a timeline is really important because obviously everyone has skin. It's our body's largest organ and you could go after the world. But you can't do that in a really powerful way if you're targeting everyone at the same time.

• 33:00Guy Raz?

  Yeah. One of the thoughts I had was, because your question was how do we market it without isolating other kinds of customers? And I don't know if that's going to be your challenge. I think, I think what you really want to do is cast a wide net. Like, it seems to me that, you know, there are different kinds of groups and organizations that you want to think about. So for stars, and I think the low hanging fruit is like water conservation groups. You know, I grew up in Southern California and when I was a kid, we were all encouraged to buy low flow showerheads because I lived in, you know, in drought, right? And it seems to me that there's an opportunity to look at water conservation groups. And a lot of these places will say, here are the glow flow showerheads you should buy.

• 33:45Guy Raz?

  Here are the shaving flusher things you should buy, you know? And the other side to it is to look at some really interesting and innovative hotels, hotel brands, like, you know, you're in Philadelphia, that's your base? That's correct, yes. So I think they have one there. The Graduate Hotels chain, you know, Moxie, some of these kind of hipper hotel chains that are more attuned to water conservation, to environmental innovations. That's where I think you want to start just trying to connect with people and have those conversations because it's those first movers, especially young, environmentally conscious consumers that you have to reach from the get go.

• 34:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that's great. I would love if you know, you requested a shaving kit from your hotel and a razor insert came with it.

• 34:35Guy Raz?

  It would be amazing, right? Because and how much are they going to cost, by the way?

• 34:38Speaker 03

  So we're looking around 30 bucks right now. So they were available on Kickstarter, you know, for the normal Kickstarter discount, but right now they're available for preorder at $33.

• 34:47Guy Raz?

  All right, a price point that you're going to have to bring down at some point, obviously, but understandable. There's potential to appeal to a certain type of consumer. You mentioned campers, which I think is interesting. I think of campers as having big shaggy beards. Like one of our producers, Casey Herman, who's a great and amazing camper and has a big shaggy beard. But I do think that there is a, I kind of feel like we're in a beard transition. I don't know. I feel like we're seeing more guys shave. I don't know. Maybe that's just me.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  And then I wonder too, you know, I think of that website, Uncrate, that has all the, all the gear for men.

• 35:21Guy Raz?

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  That are all very different that I always just like scan before holidays.

• 35:26Guy Raz?

  Such a cool, such a cool site. Uncrate Supply, yeah.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I think as you build out your website and you kind of, you'll move on from the stage of talking about Kickstarter to becoming a, a real product and a brand, a good gadget, a cool gadget that has a specific audience.

• 35:44Speaker 03

  Right.

• 35:44Guy Raz?

  There's another thought I had was just looking at your website, which is you guys tell that, you know, you scroll down, you tell the story and it's you and Matt are, there's a picture of the two of you. I think there's an argument to be made that you guys put the photos of the two of you in your uniforms on there, like your official Navy, if you're, I think you're allowed to do that and just to put that up there and say, we met, you know, and kind of make that story a little bit fun or snappy or like, we roomed together during our six month probably deployment, right?

• 36:12Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 36:13Guy Raz?

  And shaving. Thing was a pain and we solved the problem for us and for, you know, the other guys on the ship by coming up with this thing. And, and you kind of make it this, I don't know, like a, like a Wes Anderson's kind of look, you know, like, you know, you guys with your, your uniforms and just, you know, because there's a, there's an earnestness that I think a lot of people would, will love when they find out about this story.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  And it's a real story.

• 36:37Guy Raz?

  Right.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  Don't forget, it's the reason this product exists.

• 36:40Guy Raz?

  Yeah. That's great. The company is called The Clean Shave Company. Andy Kemp is the co-founder. Andy, good luck. Thank you, guys, both so much for your time. I appreciate it. Thanks for calling in. That crate idea is kind of cool, right? Can imagine like, hey, let me have my dram of whiskey and my Seiko watch and a shave and save water.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  It's such a good insight. It's such a, I don't know where they find all of their things, but.

• 37:07Guy Raz?

  Yeah, you probably have to pay a lot of money to get on there, I would imagine. But still, you know, it's a, it's a, yeah, it's a tastemaker site. So, but it's a cool product. He's going to have to, Holly, he's going to, down the road, they're going to have to create a product line. You can't, right, you can't build a business on just this one niche product. They're going to have to think of their brand as shaving across the board and different innovative ways to kind of lean into that.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Solve problems and I thought that was a really good idea to lean into those hotels and resorts that do have the water preservation mission as part of their own story.

• 37:43Guy Raz?

  Yeah, Palm Springs, Las Vegas, right? Every time I go to those places, they're like, every time, there's like signs, it's like, every time you turn on the tap, you're making our situation worse. And I'm always like, okay, I'm just not going to use the sink here.

• 37:56Guy Raz?

  We're going to take another quick break here, but when we come back, a device that can make water sports safer and possibly more stylish as well. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to The Device Line on How I Built This Lab.

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• 39:43Guy Raz?

  Hey, welcome back to the Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. So today, my guest is founder of Super Group, Holly Thaggard, and together, we are trying to answer your questions about how to find the right consumer and tell them about your product. All right, let's bring in our next caller. Hello, caller. Welcome to the Advice Line.

• 40:03Speaker 07

  Hi, Guy. Hi, Holly. Thank you so much for having me.

• 40:06Guy Raz?

  Hello. Hello. Well, please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a bit about your business.

• 40:11Speaker 07

  Yes, so my name is Erin McLaughlin. I am calling from Hinsdale, Illinois. I am the founder and CEO of Flagard, which is an innovative water safety device dedicated to enhancing visibility to children who have fallen into the water.

• 40:28Guy Raz?

  Amazing. Okay, and what's your question for us today?

• 40:31Speaker 07

  Okay, so my question is, I feel like I'm selling a product that addresses a serious problem people don't necessarily realize exists. How do I convince the customer that People being hit by a boat is a serious issue. And how do I bring awareness and education around the importance of wearing something highly visible and automatic so boats could see them?

• 40:56Guy Raz?

  Amazing. Okay, Holly, this is a perfect question for you because you went through a version of this with sunscreen 20 years ago. But before we get to you, Erin, just a couple of questions about this product. Explain how it works. It's like a life vest that a kid wears and when they fall into the water, like a flag deploys, like sort of like an airbag in a car. It's like a colorful flag that boats can see that someone's in the water?

• 41:19Speaker 07

  Okay, yes. So Flag Guard attaches onto the back of your existing life jacket.

• 41:25Guy Raz?

  Okay.

• 41:25Speaker 07

  When a child falls into the water, a highly visible orange flag will pop up over their head, making them more visible to oncoming boats or to rescuers.

• 41:35Guy Raz?

  Got it. Okay, how did this idea come about?

• 41:38Speaker 07

  So one day, we were out boating with my six children and we were tubing and my daughter fell off of the tube and was almost hit by an oncoming boat.

• 41:46Guy Raz?

  Oh.

• 41:47Speaker 07

  And so that highlighted the need to create something that would make children more visible in the water.

• 41:54Guy Raz?

  And so you come up with this idea. And is that airbag kind of analogy fair? I mean, that basically the water triggers this flag to pop up?

• 42:02Speaker 07

  Yes. So the system is foolproof because it relies on the pressure from the water to deploy this bright orange flag. As soon as they fall into the water, the flag will automatically pop up over their head. And as they get back on the boat or on the tube or up on their skis, the flag automatically goes down to its resting position.

• 42:21Guy Raz?

  Amazing. Okay, so you have invented this product. First of all, when did you create this? When did you start this business?

• 42:28Speaker 07

  So it was something that I thought about for a long time. However, life got in the way. And during COVID, I really took the time to bring it to fruition. And I just brought it to market in January of 2023.

• 42:44Guy Raz?

  Congrats. Did you, are you an engineer or did you find, did you serve a concept?

• 42:49Speaker 07

  No, no, no, I'm not an engineer at all. I'm just a mother of six children. And I knew that keeping our children safe and seen in the water was a really big issue for me. And

• 43:02Speaker 07

  I don't know. It just, it came to be. I sell real estate and now I'm selling real estate part-time to help fund Flagard.

• 43:09Guy Raz?

  And you found somebody who could help you design the, you had the concept and you found somebody who helped you design it?

• 43:16Speaker 07

  Yes. So I went through, oh my gosh, it took me so long to get this. I did so many prototypes and talked to so many designers. So it was a long road and finally I brought it to market.

• 43:29Guy Raz?

  All right. Now it's available through your website or is it also in stores?

• 43:35Speaker 07

  It is available on my website at flagard.net. It's also available on Amazon. It is in over 30 marinas and that's from me loading them up in my truck and driving to the marinas.

• 43:47Guy Raz?

  Good job. Nice.

• 43:48Speaker 07

  I attend boat shows with the help of my children and I'm doing cold calling.

• 43:55Guy Raz?

  Amazing. Okay. So you are trying to figure out, how do you get people to understand that when your kid goes in the water, they should be wearing this? Like they, this should be like anything else. Like if you put the life jacket on, you're going to go water skiing, this thing should also be on, just like you put your swimsuit on.

• 44:14Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 44:15Guy Raz?

  All right. Holly Thaggard, you got, we need you in this conversation now.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Do you have patents on this?

• 44:21Speaker 07

  Yes. So Flagard is a registered trademark and I also have four patents that have been issued.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, very similar experience. You know, in 2005, people didn't know that they needed SPF every single day. They believed sun damage only happened at the beach. And so we still have a big job to do in education. You're going to have education at the foundation of your brand for its entirety. I think, you know, your competition, very much like mine, is in activity. People weren't wearing SPF and life jackets out there are not, they don't have a flag attached. So, you know, I mean, I think the good news is that you're passionate because of your child's experience. And I think that passion is what's going to fuel you figuring it out as you have to pivot your way through building this. You

• 45:08Speaker 01

  know, I personally was inspired to change consumer behavior by being inspirational, not scary. It's one of the most difficult things to do ever is change consumer behavior. And so, you know, I'd rather lean into creating innovation and beautiful products that help make the world want to change their consumer behavior. For me, I want them to crave wearing triple prep or crave putting unseen sunscreen on. So when I look, you know, initially at your social media and even your website, I do think there's a little bit of a scary vibe going on that can possibly lose people versus thinking about boating safety. Let the award you won in 2024, I think I read you won a boating innovation award.

• 45:53Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  That was for innovation because this hasn't been done before. So let those awards speak for themselves in the credibility that this product is needed.

• 46:04Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  And then bring in a copywriter to kind of shorten your taglines. I loved, I think you said, what was it? Safe and seen.

• 46:12Speaker 07

  Yes, safe and seen.

• 46:14Guy Raz?

  Hmm.

• 46:14Speaker 01

  But it's not as impactful when you partner it with, let's help protect our children so they're safe and seen. So like, if I just put my marketing hat on, I would say, like, safe and seen.

• 46:25Guy Raz?

  Yeah. That's a great idea. You know, it makes me think about a huge change in consumer behavior over the last 20 years, which is in skiing and snowboarding. When I was a little kid, nobody wore helmets skiing. Nobody. It was, which just weirdos did. Today, you're a complete weirdo if you don't wear a helmet.

• 46:44Speaker 07

  Yes, and also guy for bike riding. I never wore a bike helmet growing up.

• 46:49Guy Raz?

  And by the way, you're starting to see more and more people in water sports, surfing and even water skiing do the same thing. I wonder, so part of that is just, it's just cool to do it because it's smart. And I can imagine like on your website, just a video of people having fun, like the video is of people, you know, of somebody water skiing or tubing and falling off, and that's cool, but maybe even more leaning into that fun side of it. Because to me, it seems like there are all kinds of cool things you could do with this. Like you could not just have the flagship product, but you could make helmets that also deploy a flag or that are really brightly colored. So the whole idea is that it's not just about.

• 47:33Guy Raz?

  The flag, it's about making you visible in the water. And there's so much cool stuff you could do around that with colors and designs.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  Might not even be a flag.

• 47:43Guy Raz?

  Exactly. And you could still call it a flag.

• 47:45Speaker 07

  What do you mean?

• 47:46Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 47:46Speaker 07

  Oh, what would you mean by that?

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, when you look at the mountains skiing, children don't have just a plain helmet on. They have, they have crazy things going on.

• 47:56Guy Raz?

  Mohawk helmets.

• 47:57Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 47:58Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  But that's when it's fun. And that's when you have kids asking for it.

• 48:03Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Do you know the other thing, the other thing I think of, Erin, is that this isn't just a product for kids. I think that you should really consider marketing this to everyone, not keep kids safe, but hey, everybody wants a water skier to go tubing. You know, once you fall in, you're just seeing a head bopping up and down. It doesn't matter who you are. It's hard to see. And so we should all, like, this is something that everybody should, should, should, should have on, you know, you want to, you want to be bright. It's like, it's like running, right? Again, running. 20 years ago, people would run at night and they'd get hit by cars. Now, it's very rare for me to see somebody running at night without wearing reflective gear. It's not about, you know, I think when people go running, they're like, okay, I don't want to die tonight.

• 48:48Guy Raz?

  They're just like, I want to be smart and be seen, you know, and visible. Obviously, they don't want to die, you know, either. But that's, that's what makes it normal.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  You know, I also think about, I would imagine your vision is to have these attached to every life jacket in the world, right?

• 49:04Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  And so I think, is there a possibility of like a licensing with a jacket, a life jacket idea in there?

• 49:14Speaker 07

  Yes, I did think of that, but I never pursued it.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  It's, I think we're having a conversation with maybe whoever the leading, is it O'Neil or whoever the leading life jacket brand is.

• 49:25Guy Raz?

  Or maybe it's a flag guard life jacket.

• 49:28Speaker 07

  Well, that's my next thing. So what I eventually want to do is to have. The flag guard that's already built into the life jacket. I do have a prototype for that.

• 49:38Guy Raz?

  Nice.

• 49:39Speaker 07

  I did not bring it. It has to be Coast Guard approved, which I have not started the process for that yet because it is very expensive.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  Dive into that and then go to the boat shows and go to the, I know there's trade shows everywhere for active and surf shows and all of that. I mean.

• 49:56Guy Raz?

  But this is a good start. I mean, what you have here is exactly what you should be doing. You've got the product out there. People can see how it works. And then over time, you know, maybe you do introduce helmets or you do introduce a life vest. I have a tactical thought for you, which might be a little weird, but I wonder, maybe there's a world where you fought, like you'd work with your local state representative, right? In where you are in Illinois. And you start to say, hey, we should make this a requirement that kids under 13, when they go to water ski, have to have a device like this attached to them for visibility. I don't know, maybe something like that. You create like a regulation that's a requirement. And then boom.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Use that award that you got as the conversation starter.

• 50:45Speaker 07

  Yes, I love that idea because that's also what I would like to do is to get where it is mandatory to have that on the back of your life jacket for certain ages. And then, Holly, you were saying about a scary vibe could lose people.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  Just think, make it playful. I looked at a few of your Instagram posts and they're, they're very.

• 51:05Guy Raz?

  Alarmist or?

• 51:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they're just very scary. You know, this is an amazing thing that you can like make fun and playful. And I think that I love the safe and scene, but say it joyfully. And I know it was a scary experience for you, but like this is exciting. You've created innovation that doesn't exist. So let's make everything more exciting and fun.

• 51:29Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  I mean, after all, this is the kid's ticket to getting outside and riding a boat and skiing and surfing. This is like, and I feel the same way about SPF. My children grew up with it, of course, on the changing table, having sunscreen massages. So we started out applying sunscreen with massages. That's how fun it was in our house. And having a pump by the front door and the back door just meant my son was going to get out on his bike faster. We don't ever talk about the scary skin cancer and what can happen from not wearing SPF.

• 51:59Speaker 07

  Yes, that makes so much sense. Thank you.

• 52:01Guy Raz?

  Erin McLaughlin, thank you so much. The brand is called Flag Guard. Thank you for calling in. Good luck. It's such a cool product and we're cheering you on. We'll be, we'll be following your progress.

• 52:11Speaker 07

  Oh, my God, you guys, this was great. Thank you so much for the advice.

• 52:15Guy Raz?

  Thanks for calling in. I, I think people should wear helmets, water skiing. Is that weird? Is that controversial?

• 52:22Speaker 01

  I think it's, I mean, I'm all about safety, so.

• 52:24Guy Raz?

  Right? I mean.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  What about surfing? That surfboard kicks back up.

• 52:28Guy Raz?

  Yeah. And I've seen it more and more in California. I see more and more people wearing helmets. And I think in 10, 20 years, it's just, we're going to look back and be like, people didn't wear helmets surfing? That was, it's like skiing.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're going to think of those tanning beds as like torture chambers.

• 52:43Guy Raz?

  Yeah. There have been one of those.

• 52:45Speaker 01

  A lot, a lot of women have. And, and I think that fast forward 25, 30 years and people are really going to look back and go, wait, you got in a bed that fried you?

• 52:55Guy Raz?

  Well, Holly, I hope talking to all these early-stage founders didn't give you PTSD about all the, all the struggles and like the setbacks and the stress, because it's really stressful, as you know, and as we know from all the hundreds of guests we've had on the show. But hopefully some of this advice will be helpful. You know, I mean, I, hopefully we'll find out, we'll follow up with them.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  We'll follow up. And that, you know, they're at a very fun stage in their brand. And I can say that now 20 years later, because building and creating, and I think entrepreneurs and founders love to build and create. And the most building and creating to do is in these early-stage days. And so. It's very exciting for them.

• 53:36Guy Raz?

  Holly, what I always say, and our regular listeners have heard me say a version of this, is that there are no shortcuts in starting a business. The only shortcut is in learning from mistakes that others have made, so then you might avoid them yourself. And that's really how I Built This is. It's like a compendium of mistakes. And the idea, and we just heard from one of our callers who actually got an idea, right? That they heard about this Kickstarter that Unie started, and that inspired them to do the same thing. If you were able to go back in time to younger Holly Thaggard in 2005, and whisper in her ear and be like, here's what you should know, because I'm coming from the future, what would you tell her?

• 54:20Speaker 01

  I say this very honestly. I wouldn't change a thing. I would trust your gut and find the help you need. This is all advice I had, though, growing up. And being the daughter of two entrepreneurs, these are things that were very instinctual for me. And I think for a lot of entrepreneurs and founders, trusting your gut is an easy thing to do. And realize that you may not always know why something happens at the moment that it's happening, but one day, it will come full circle. And I'm sure there's still full circle things that are going to happen in the next 20 years, because this brand's not going anywhere. So the answers will happen, and they'll unfold naturally, as they should for the brand.

• 55:03Guy Raz?

  Holly Thaggard, founder of SuperGoop. Thanks so much for coming on to the Advice Line. It was awesome having you back on the show.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  Great visiting with you guys. Thanks so much for having me. This was so much fun.

• 55:14Guy Raz?

  And by the way, if you all have not heard Holly's original How I Built This episode, you have to go back and check it out. You can find a link to it in the podcast description, so just check it out on your smartphone. But here's one of my favorite moments from that interview.

• 55:29Speaker 01

  I had created these sunscreen Swipes. And apparently, the Swipes were a huge hit. So I would go around to stores during that period, and the Swipes were always gone. They were just wiped off the shelf. But the problem was, I knew that my sales couldn't be great if there were no products on the shelf. And so I'd go into as many stores as I could with Swipes in my bag, and literally like stock the shelves. Like, I'd give them product, which is crazy, right?

• 56:01Guy Raz?

  Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at guyraz.com. Each week, I put together tons of insights from entrepreneurs and my own observations from interviewing some of the greatest founders in the world on this show. And also, if you're working on a business and you'd like to ask us a question, send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues that you would like some help with. Make sure to tell us how to reach you, and hopefully, we can give you some helpful advice. You can send us a voice memo at [email protected], or call us at 1-800-433-1298 and leave a message there.

• 56:45Guy Raz?

  And we'll put all of this in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by J.C. Howard, with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Gilly Moon. Our production team also includes Alex Chung, Carla Estevez, Casey Herman, Chris Messini, Elaine Coats, Catherine Seifer, Kerry Thompson, Sam Paulson, and Niva Grant. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to the Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.