Warby Parker: Dave Gilboa & Neil Blumenthal

In 2008, it was nearly impossible to buy a fashionable, affordable pair of glasses online. That simple frustration inspired the idea behind Warby Parker – and disrupted the eyewear industry. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  We hadn't told anyone that the site was live. We didn't want to drive any traffic to it because we weren't sure it would work. So I get an order and then 10 minutes later, we get another order and then another order and then another order. And we kind of go from this feeling of elatement to, oh crap, we don't have this much inventory.

• 0:30Guy Raz?

  From NPR, it's How I Built This, a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements they built.

• 0:43Guy Raz?

  I'm Guy Raz, and on today's show, two of the founders of Warby Parker tell the story of how they birthed an idea, an idea that disrupted the entire eyeglass industry in America and grew into a billion-dollar company.

• 1:00Guy Raz?

  So back in 2008, Neegal Blumenthal and Dave Galboa both arrived on the campus of the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. They were there to start business school. And they met each other and two other students, Andy Hunt and Jeff Rader. And the four of them would go on to co-found Warby Parker. But in 2008, at that time, they didn't know that yet. What they did know, and something that they all had in common, was they were really frustrated with how eyeglasses worked. And it stemmed from this thing that, well, most people have probably experienced at some point. They kept losing their glasses. And Dave, in fact, right before he started business school, had accidentally left his glasses on an airplane.

• 1:41Speaker 00

  And they'd cost me $700. And I just couldn't justify as a full-time student paying that much for a new pair of glasses.

• 1:48Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 1:49Speaker 00

  The new iPhone 3G had come out. I waited in line at the Apple Store, paid $200 for it, and it did all these magical things. And meanwhile, the technology behind a pair of glasses is 800 years old, and it just didn't make sense.

• 2:02Guy Raz?

  And what, you're like, OK, I've got this amazing iPhone, this magical portal to all of human knowledge, and it could cost me $200, and yet these eyeglasses made out of plastic. Are like, super expensive.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I was complaining to anyone that would listen about why glasses were so expensive. And then Andy kept losing his glasses and he was buying everything online, but couldn't figure out why he couldn't buy new glasses online and why no one was effectively selling glasses online.

• 2:32Guy Raz?

  Right, because, I mean, this is like 2008 and, I mean, by that point, it wasn't like, you know, like, selling things online was this brand-new idea.

• 2:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, and so, we kind of started this conversation where we were kind of frustrated by different pieces of the eyewear industry. And we knew that Neil had spent a number of years working for an eyewear nonprofit and probably knew a lot more about this than we did. And so, we were on the computer lab one day and we started asking Neil a bunch of questions. And, no pun intended, but I think all our eyes were open that there was this massive opportunity.

• 3:06Guy Raz?

  What do you remember about that meeting in the computer lab, Neil? What, like, what were they asking you?

• 3:10Speaker 02

  It was sort of like, why are glasses so expensive? And when I was working at that nonprofit, Vision Spring, I'd actually designed eyewear and I would go to the factories to produce these glasses. And so, I knew a little bit about the optical industry and it's dominated by a few very large companies, one of which is Luxottica. Luxottica has a market cap of about $30 billion. They own Oakley, Ray-Ban, Oliver Peoples, Persol and Arnett. They license almost every major fashion brand under the sun, like Ralph Lauren and Chanel and Prada and Dolce and Gabbana. They also own a lot of the major retail chains like LensCrafters and Pearl Vision and Sunglass.

• 3:52Guy Raz?

  One company owns all those things?

• 3:55Speaker 02

  It's crazy. Sears Optical, Target Optical.

• 3:57Guy Raz?

  Wow, so when you go to like, a glasses store and all those brands, Persol and Ray-Ban, it's all owned by the same company?

• 4:04Speaker 02

  All owned by the same company. And they own the second-largest vision insurance plan in the country, IMED. So, you walk into a LensCrafters, you don't realize that most of their selection are frames that they've made. And the vision insurance that you're using is also the same company.

• 4:20Guy Raz?

  So, you knew this?

• 4:22Speaker 02

  Right, exactly. So we just thought like, oh, well, now it's a lot clearer why glasses are so expensive. So we thought, oh, why not sell glasses? And the light bulbs went off in all of our minds. And then later that night, like, you know, when you have a feeling or just an idea you're so excited about, you actually have trouble sleeping?

• 4:45Guy Raz?

  Doesn't you can't get it out of your head?

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Exactly. It was that feeling. And I think it was like 2:00 in the morning and shot off an email. And then at like 2:01, Dave responded, and 2:02, Jeff responded, and Andy responded. And like, we were all up thinking about this. So the next day, we decide, hey, after class, let's all get together. We actually sat down at a bar right on 23rd and Walnut. And over a beer, we're discussing this more. And we said, hey, like, should we do this? Like, should we really go after this? And we all sort of said, yeah.

• 5:27Guy Raz?

  Okay, so you guys are at business school. And you're thinking, okay, let's do this. So I mean, at that point, what did you do? Like, did you like write a business plan? Did you start looking for money?

• 5:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I think all of us, we talked about how excited we were about this idea. And we said, well, we're at business school to learn how to run a business. What better way than to actually build one ourselves? So we all decided to take the same class, an entrepreneurship class, where the output of that class is a full business plan. And so we spent the next several weeks really researching every element of our idea, getting a bunch of great insights from professors, running a bunch of surveys, standing for hours in different optical shops. And then that culminated in actually a 40-page business plan. We entered the Wharton Business Plan Competition. And we got eliminated in the

• 6:22Speaker 00

  semifinal round. I think just kind of put a chip on our shoulder where we said, OK, well, now we got something to prove. And at that point, we felt really passionate that this was going to work.

• 6:33Guy Raz?

  And at that point, you're, I mean, you guys were still working off paper. I mean, you still did not have any money, I'm assuming. You didn't have a product. You didn't have a manufacturer. So why were you guys so confident? Like, how were you even able to test the idea?

• 6:49Speaker 00

  You know, we talked to everyone that would give us five minutes just about the idea. Initially, we got a bunch of pushback that said, well, the idea of buying glasses online is kind of strange to me.

• 7:00Guy Raz?

  Like, who was saying that to you?

• 7:01Speaker 00

  Basically, all our friends and classmates.

• 7:03Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 7:04Speaker 00

  And a lot of people told us that creating a brand is hard enough. So is creating an e-commerce site. You should pick one of those. But for us, the magic was in creating a vertically integrated brand. So we honed in on this issue that we had to figure out a way people could try on glasses.

• 7:20Guy Raz?

  Because people were saying, nobody's going to buy glasses online because you've got to touch them, you've got to feel them.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  And that was a real moment of self-doubt. These journeys are always these moments where you feel like a complete idiot. And this was like one of those challenges that really made us question, should we continue to spend time on this versus the million other things that we could be doing at school?

• 7:43Guy Raz?

  So how did you think you could get over this problem of people, you know, thinking they needed to touch them to try them on?

• 7:48Speaker 02

  So we just thought a lot about, how do we remove every obstacle to purchasing? And the thought was, well, if we offer free shipping, that will encourage people to buy. If we offer free returns, that will also make it less risky for our customers. And that's sort of led us to this other idea to do a home try-on program.

• 8:08Guy Raz?

  So you guys decide, let's send these frames to people, let them try them on at home. And if they like them, they just send them back and we'll put the lenses in and that's it. Did you guys have, I mean, were there any other problems that you had anticipated as you were thinking through this idea?

• 8:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think the other element was that we were trying to sell a product that normally costs several hundred dollars and we were selling it for less than a hundred dollars. And so there was inherent skepticism about the quality.

• 8:38Guy Raz?

  Right.

• 8:38Speaker 00

  And so we said, well, how do we just get as many of our glasses on people's faces as possible?

• 8:43Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 8:44Speaker 00

  And that's when kind of this light bulb went off for the HomeTryOn program, which really no company was offering until that time. And we said, we just want to get our product on people's faces and we think people will buy afterwards.

• 8:57Guy Raz?

  So you guys wanted your glasses to, obviously, to be much cheaper than the competitions, like even less than a hundred bucks. How did you decide on the exact price?

• 9:07Speaker 02

  Our initial thought was to sell glasses for $45. And we remember going into the head of the marketing department's office at Wharton and we sit next to him, slide the deck on his desk and say, hey, we're going to transform the optical industry. We're going to charge $45 for a $500 pair of glasses. And he kind of just laughed at us and said, no way, it won't work. And we're like, wait, you didn't even like read our deck. Like every graph goes up and to the right. And he said, I'm sorry, guys. First of all, price is the biggest indicator of quality and it's just outside of the realm of believability that you can sell a product for a tenth of its price. So we walked out of this meeting, pretty deflated, but it led us to investigate pricing

• 9:52Speaker 02

  a little further. And it showed us that, yes, price is an indicator of quality. There's a psychological barrier around $100. So one thought was, should we charge $99? And we felt that was too discounty and cheap and we were building an aspirational brand. So we actually settled on $95 using just our instinct, thinking that this doesn't sound cheap and that it looks deliberate and visually looks decent.

• 10:22Guy Raz?

  How did you guys come up with a name? Because it sounds like an aristocrat from, like, you know, Northumberland in England or something, like Warby Parker.

• 10:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, we often joke that the hardest thing that we did in those early days was settle on a name that all four of us liked. I think we still have our spreadsheet of over 2,000 names that we tested on our very patient friends.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, two early Jack Kerouac characters that Dave actually discovered when he went to the New York Public Library exhibit on Kerouac. And two of the characters were Warby Pepper and Zag Parker.

• 10:56Guy Raz?

  And that's how you got the name.

• 10:58Speaker 02

  And that's how you-- and now, everybody that joins Warby Parker on their first day on their desk, they get a copy of Dharma Bones, along with a few other goodies.

• 11:10Guy Raz?

  That's Neil Blumenthal of Warby Parker. After the break, Neil and co-founder Dave Gilboa will talk about moving that well-thought-out business plan off of paper and into the real world. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This from NPR.

• 11:36Guy Raz?

  Hey, welcome back to How I Built This from NPR. I'm Guy Raz, and today on the show, we've got Neil Blumenthal and Dave Gilboa, two of the founders of Warby Parker. So when we left off, they had come up with this idea, and they had thought it through. And now, the only thing left was to execute. How much money did you guys raise initially to launch this company? And how did you do it?

• 12:00Speaker 00

  So the nice thing about business school was that most people work for a few years before going back to school. And so collectively, the four of us took our life savings from when we were working before school and invested into the business. We invested $120,000 between the four of us to get the business off the ground. And we worked for a year and a half without paying ourselves a salary. We didn't have an office. We did win a couple of grants from Wharton, so that helped as well. But we were very scrappy and very much bootstrapped for quite a while. And we ended up launching the business and then went another 15 months before we raised our first round of funding.

• 12:38Guy Raz?

  And so then, how did you guys actually find the manufacturer to make the glasses for you? I mean, did you, Neil, did you have contacts from when you worked at that nonprofit?

• 12:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, we leveraged a lot of the relationships that I had and we went over to visit the factories. We actually prepared a PowerPoint because even though this was going to be a vendor that we were buying from, right, we had to sell them on our vision and that we were indeed serious and would be able to afford to pay them. Of course, they took most of the payment upfront, so they didn't assume much risk.

• 13:13Guy Raz?

  Okay, so you pay for these frames, the manufacturer makes them. And what did you even do with all those glasses?

• 13:21Speaker 02

  I do remember getting boxes and boxes of these frames shipped to our apartment. And like, it was a doorman building, the doorman had no idea what to do. It literally took us a couple hours to load, do all these runs in the elevator into our apartment, then stack all these boxes and then unpack them. And we ourselves inspected every single frame.

• 13:45Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 13:46Speaker 02

  And this was all the while we were working to figure out, how are we going to launch this thing? We basically, to start the business, only invested in three things. Our initial inventory, our website, and some PR, knowing that you only have one shot to sort of launch a brand.

• 14:03Guy Raz?

  So even before you launched the company, you had a publicist going out trying to drum up publicity for it?

• 14:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, so we had meetings with almost 50 PR firms. And part of it was us evaluating them, but at the same time, we had to sell ourselves to those PR firms.

• 14:21Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  Right, there's nothing less sexy in the fashion world than for MBAs from Orton. We knew we were going to launch sometime in the spring of 2010. And we really wanted to be in these premier magazines as a stamp of approval. So what we were targeting was GQ and Vogue. And so we had some production samples. We didn't have a website up, but we were really pitching these magazines as exclusive launch partners. And we were thrilled to hear that GQ and Vogue were going to run stories. We had no idea what those stories were going to look like, what the content was going to look like.

• 14:59Guy Raz?

  But you guys were totally hustling this. I mean, Why would these huge magazines like trust a bunch of business school students who didn't even have a company? Like if you went to the website at that point, there was nothing up there. It's crazy to think that they would have done that, right?

• 15:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think there were a few things that worked in our favor. One was identifying the right PR person to help represent us. But we often say that PR is, I think, 30% the messenger, 70% the message. And for us, the message, this was a pretty novel at the time. There was nobody selling glasses online, so the idea of selling glasses online was novel. The $95 price point for $500 glasses was pretty novel. The Home Try-On program was novel. So in fact, GQ actually called us the Netflix of eyewear in the article they put. So I think there were like these hooks that writers and editors could get excited about.

• 15:56Guy Raz?

  So how much of an impact did that have on the launch of the company?

• 16:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, we were just blown away by the impact that it had in terms of traffic and sales. So we got a call from our publicist the day before GQ was going to hit newsstands, and we still had a landing page up. If you went to warbyparker.com, it said, "Coming soon. Please enter your email address."

• 16:17Guy Raz?

  Oh, wow.

• 16:18Speaker 00

  And I said, "Guys, what's going on here? GQ's hitting tomorrow." And our website still had a bunch of bugs in it. We were working with one developer, and we were on the phone with him, kind of frantically working out some of the most critical bugs on the site. And we finally, at 4:00 AM, said, "Okay, guys, this is stable enough. We all need a couple hours of sleep before we have class tomorrow. Let's make the site live." And we were sitting in class the next day. We hadn't told anyone that the site was live. Our parents didn't know the site was live. Our best friends didn't know the site was live.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  We didn't want to drive any traffic to it because we weren't sure it would work.

• 16:57Speaker 00

  And I had my phone set up to be notified anytime we got an order through the site. And so it was around 10:00 AM. And so I get an order, and then 10 minutes later, we get another order, and then another order, and then another order. And we kind of go from this feeling of elatement to, "Oh, crap. We don't have this much inventory." And we hadn't contemplated building in any sold-out functionality or waitless functionality in the site.

• 17:30Guy Raz?

  So you were literally selling out of glasses, but people were still ordering them because the website didn't know when you would run out of it?

• 17:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, we had no inventory tracking at all because we were assuming one to two orders a day and kind of joked that, you know, if nothing else, my mom would buy 100 pairs of glasses from us. But we really had tempered expectations because we also recognized that what we were trying to do was build a brand, and that takes a really long time. So we called an emergency meeting after that first hour and a half class, and we were debating, okay, what do we do here? Do we just keep taking orders and then figure out what to tell people later? Do we take down the website? And while we're having this two-minute discussion, I'm looking at my phone, and we have 10 more orders, and I'm like, guys, we gotta do something here. And so we placed an emergency call to our developer, and miraculously was able to build in this waitlist functionality on the fly.

• 18:21Speaker 00

  And within a four-week period, we'd sold out of our bestselling styles. We had a waitlist of 20,000 customers.

• 18:28Guy Raz?

  How many frames did you guys sell?

• 18:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, tens of thousands. It was, yeah.

• 18:33Guy Raz?

  And you just did not, you had not ordered enough glasses from the manufacturer? Like, you literally, you couldn't, and they couldn't make them fast enough for you?

• 18:41Speaker 02

  You know, I think, I think we were ambitious in terms of the number of frames that we purchased, but also not overly risk tolerant. And I think we've approached this business in a way that, yeah, let's not bankrupt ourselves on inventory.

• 18:55Speaker 00

  Well, we were also constrained. I mean, we hadn't raised any money from investors. So, you know, it was our life savings that we'd poured in. So there was really a limited number of frames that we had the ability to purchase.

• 19:06Guy Raz?

  So, I mean, it sounds like a good problem to have, that you have a waitlist of 20,000 people, you're like, out of the gate, you're just killing it. Is that, am I right, or was it actually a bad problem?

• 19:20Speaker 00

  I think we learned a lot of important lessons in those early days where we were terrified that we had all these early adopters that were excited to place an order from us and we didn't have anything to sell them. And for a lot of those customers, it took us upwards of nine months to get through the waitlist. So we were terrified, you know, are these people going to leave with a bad taste in their mouth? That you really only have one opportunity to launch a brand.

• 19:42Guy Raz?

  Yeah, I mean, they were waiting. I mean, a lot of companies would not survive that.

• 19:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think it did have some positive effects that it created this aura that, wow, this is in really high demand.

• 19:51Speaker 02

  Nothing creates cool like scarcity.

• 19:54Speaker 00

  But I think we also learned a lot of important lessons in terms of being empathetic to customers. All four of us founders, we reached out to everyone on that waitlist for people that were had bad experiences or were really disappointed. We would give them free glasses. We gave people discounts.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  You know, I think from the get-go, we wanted to create a business to have a positive impact on the world and part of that is treating customers fairly. It's treating them fairly when it comes to price. It's treating them fairly when they call up and complain and to apologize and explain when we make mistakes. And that was something that we did from the very beginning.

• 20:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, we were primarily, you know, we're still trying to figure out how to run this business. We were working out of our apartments as full-time students. Our customer service line was a Google Voice number that we set up. When someone would call, it would simultaneously ring all four founders' cellphones and whoever answered first.

• 20:51Guy Raz?

  That was you were the customer service rep.

• 20:52Speaker 00

  Right. And so we looked at our class schedules and there are 12 hours per week when all four of us were in class at the same time. And we said, well, we should hire someone who can answer the phone when none of us are available. And so we hired this woman named Mara and said, you're going to be working 12 hours a week and trained her on what we were doing. And I think that first week, she ended up working 100 hours and now she's running our customer experience team, which is about 150 people. And so it was kind of up to the races from day one.

• 21:27Guy Raz?

  So did you guys, I mean, how quickly did you guys kind of get together and just say, "Holy hell, this is real. We're going to make it."

• 21:37Speaker 02

  We were too busy staying up all night responding to customer emails. And I remember one of the first couple of days, like, we actually decided to go to one of the classes that we were all in. And we were all typing feverishly on our computers because we weren't really paying attention. And we were just responding to customer emails and helping to process orders. And everything in the classroom got really quiet. And then the four of us sort of looked up, and everybody was staring at us, including the professor. And here we were, typing away when clearly there were no notes to be had.

• 22:10Guy Raz?

  It was obvious you were not listening.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we just stopped going to that class after that.

• 22:16Speaker 00

  I mean, I remember waking up every morning with a laptop on my chest because I'd fallen asleep responding to customer emails. And there was just an overwhelming amount of work in those early days. And so we didn't have even a minute to breathe and take a step back and think about what was happening.

• 22:33Guy Raz?

  So after this launch, and after the company obviously starts to gain traction,

• 22:40Guy Raz?

  when did you guys decide, you know, like, "We better start to raise some money"?

• 22:44Speaker 02

  We went and tried to get debt because we figured, like, why give up equity? And if we could just get some loans to help us fund this inventory that we needed. We went to 18 different banks, and only one would talk to us. And again, this was 2010, so soon after the financial crisis. And what all these loan officers said is, "Hey, we've never seen such a beautiful business plan. We've never seen a company that has such great early results, but we can't give you a loan because you don't have two years of tax returns."

• 23:19Guy Raz?

  So what did you guys do?

• 23:20Speaker 00

  We ended up getting a $200,000 SBA loan. We had to sign probably 400 documents, including one that said we weren't going to use the money to open a zoo. And we really tried to think of other creative forms of financing the business. And so we were working with a third-party logistics company that managed some of our inventory. And the CEO loved our brand, our business. And he was asking, what can he do to help drive growth in our business so that they can have more business?

• 23:52Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 23:52Speaker 00

  And we said, well, we're really constrained by our ability to purchase inventory at this point. He said, well, you guys seem like you're really good at PR. Our company needs some help with PR. What if you do some PR consulting for us? And we'll pay you a few hundred thousand dollars for that. And we said, yep, that's, that sounds great.

• 24:18Guy Raz?

  So, OK, so you launched in 2010. Today, you have close to 800 employees. You've sold, I'm sure, millions of pairs of glasses. How much do you think your success was because of, you know, you guys are like, super smart, and you're really hard workers? Or how much of it was luck?

• 24:37Speaker 02

  We like to say that there's a lot of deliberate serendipity. For example, we were really lucky to be exposed to our marketing professor that helped us think through pricing. But we had created goodwill by being friendly and doing well in his class, that he was willing to dedicate time to us. So I think there's a million examples of that. Or our friends calling in favors on our behalf. One of the things that we were just straight up lucky on is timing, right? Timing is everything. You know, coming off the financial crisis, the public was looking for ways to save money. And I think a brand like ours even resonated even more.

• 25:16Guy Raz?

  So last year, I read that you guys raised like, something like $100 million from investors. So what's the company valued at now?

• 25:25Speaker 02

  Our last valuation was over $1 billion.

• 25:28Guy Raz?

  When you hear that, $1 billion? Do you think that's crazy?

• 25:33Speaker 02

  It is pretty crazy.

• 25:35Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  You know, it's exciting, but not nearly as exciting as like coming to work every day and being in an office that we've actually designed ourselves. Seeing people in the subway wearing our glasses like that will never get old.

• 25:50Guy Raz?

  Can you recognize your glasses?

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. In fact, like, the first time that we saw the glasses in the wild, I remember seeing this person out of the corner of my eye, it was on the subway platform in Union Square, and I just started following the person. And, you know, being in New York, like, if someone's following you on the platform-

• 26:07Guy Raz?

  What are you doing? You freak?

• 26:09Speaker 02

  So, got a dirty look, but I had this big, like, ear-to-ear smile.

• 26:18Guy Raz?

  That's Neil Blumenthal of Warby Parker. Neil and Dave Gilboa co-founded Warby Parker with two other friends from business school, Jeff Rader and Andy Hunt. The company actually partners with the nonprofit where Neil used to work, VisionSpring, to bring eyeglasses to people around the world who don't have access to them.

• 26:40Guy Raz?

  Hey, thanks for listening to the show this week. If you want to find out more or listen to previous episodes, you can go to howibuiltthis.npr.org. You can also write to us at h i b t at npr.org. And if you want to send a tweet, it's at how I built this. Our show was produced this week by Casey Herman, with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. Thanks also to Neva Grant, Sanaz Meshkhanpour, and Jeff Rogers. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This from NPR.

• 27:13Guy Raz?

  Hey, thanks for sticking around, because we are now at the very end of the show, the part of the show where we hear about the things you are building. And this week, the story of two sisters who are trying to change the way people snack.

• 27:27Speaker 03

  Hi, my name is Melissa Lee. I'm from Somerville, Massachusetts. And my sister, Linda, and I are co-founders of Cruise Snacks.

• 27:36Guy Raz?

  Melissa and Linda are into two things you wouldn't necessarily think need to be fixed. Skiing and trail mix. Both seem like they're kind of great, except when you put them together, because then- Then you have a problem.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  It's this trade off of I'm really hungry, but I have to figure out how to get this snack and not have my fingers go numb. So you have to take one glove off, use your teeth, and then--

• 28:02Guy Raz?

  You've been there, right? Fumbling to grab a glove full of pretzels or M&Ms in the pocket of your winter coat. It doesn't work. So to solve this problem, Melissa and her sister came up with a trail mix that comes in a tube with a hinged lid attached to it.

• 28:18Speaker 03

  We wanted it to be able to be opened with one hand, to be able to be opened with a glove on, and sort of to be able to fit in your pocket.

• 28:25Guy Raz?

  No matter how bulky your gloves, just a flick of your thumb opens the tube. You just tip it back. You chug some dried fruits and nuts, and you hit the slopes.

• 28:35Speaker 03

  So I think spreading the idea that it's drinkable or that you would use it like you would use a water bottle, that's where people really start to understand the concept of, wow, this is something different than just my regular trail mix in a Ziploc bag.

• 28:49Guy Raz?

  It actually took Melissa and Linda several months to find the right kind of tube. They went to a bunch of different science labs, and eventually, they landed on what they thought was the perfect fit: an incubation tube.

• 29:02Speaker 03

  We were testing those on people. They were like, they look kind of like urine samples. And I was like, I don't want to package it in something that reminds people of urine. That's the last thing I want.

• 29:10Guy Raz?

  So the two sisters kept searching till they found the right match, which, of course, they did. Crew Snacks are now being sold at a few ski resorts in New Hampshire and Vermont. The company is only six months old, and it's not yet profitable. So for now, Melissa and Linda are keeping their part-time jobs as baristas in Somerville. But the best part for Melissa? She gets to work with her sister.

• 29:32Speaker 03

  I wouldn't be able to do this if I had to do it alone. There's just so much doubt that goes into the process. And I think it was really, really helpful to have someone by your side and someone going through all the same ups and downs as you are.

• 29:45Guy Raz?

  That's Melissa Lee. She co-founded Crew Snacks. That's C-R-O-O. If you want to tell us about the company or idea you are building, go to build.npr.org. That's build with a D, dot NPR, dot O R G. And thanks.

• 30:05Guy Raz?

  As the end of the year approaches, a lot of you have been asking about the best way to support How I Built This. So first of all, thank you for asking, and it is pretty easy to do. You go to stations.npr.org, you find your local station, and you make a year-end contribution. Or even better, you become a regular monthly donor. And when you do, please tell them that How I Built This sent you. So find your local station at stations.npr.org. It takes like two minutes. It's totally tax deductible. And please do tell them How I Built This sent you. Again, that's stations.npr.org. And thanks.