Advice Line with Tim Ferriss (August 2025)

Entrepreneur, author, and podcaster Tim Ferriss joins Guy on the Advice Line to answer questions from three early-stage founders. Plus, Tim shares the inspiration behind his latest venture, Coyote—a 10-minute card game that encourages time spent with friends and family. First, Lauryn from San Francisco asks about the best way to scale her biodegradable ear plugs in two very different directions. Then Emily from Kansas City weighs whether DTC or wholesale is where to focus her accessory brand after Taylor Swift wore one of her rings and sales exploded. And finally, Kimberly in Woolwich, Maine wonders how to incentivize her customers to pre-order her high-quality, sustainable, clothing. Thank you to the founders of GOB, EB & Co, and K. Becker Designs for being a part of our show. If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode, leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to [email protected] mailto:[email protected] or call 1-800-433-1298. And be sure to listen to Tim Ferriss’s founding story https://art19.com/shows/831bd173-0992-41b7-b1eb-112db904d947/episodes/ad5b84a9-ae91-450d-aee1-1e431d2bfa57/embed as told by Tim on the show in 2020. This episode was produced by Noor Gill with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Andrea Bruce. Our audio engineer was Cena Loffredo. You can follow HIBT on X https://x.com/HowIBuiltThis & Instagram https://www.instagram.com/howibuiltthis/ and sign up for Guy's free newsletter at guyraz.com http://guyraz.com/ and on Substack https://guyraz.substack.com/. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 4:21Speaker 00

  Hey, everyone. So this week, we're revisiting one of our favorite episodes from the archives. It's an Advice Line conversation with entrepreneur, author, and podcaster, Tim Ferriss. And stick around to the end because we checked back in with the callers to hear what's happened since this episode first aired back in August of 2025. We'll be back next week with a brand-new Advice Line episode featuring Christina Tosi from Milk Bar. Super fun episode. Can't wait for you guys to hear that. And without further ado, here is the episode for this week. Enjoy.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  Hello and welcome to the Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show, who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. And you can also send us a voice memo at [email protected]. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from some of the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for free at guyraz.com or on Substack.

• 5:40Speaker 00

  And we'll put all of this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Tim Ferriss. He's an entrepreneur, investor, host of The Tim Ferriss Show, and author of many books, including The Four Hour Work Week. Tim, it's great to have you back on the show. Thanks for having me back. So nice to see you. You, too. Tim, you were first on How I Built This back in 2020. And as always, for anyone listening, if you haven't heard that episode, it's so good. We'll put a link to it in the episode description, so check it out. In that episode, Tim, we talked about your time as a student and learning Japanese and how you got a sales job out of college and then you started your own business, a supplement company. And then, of course, you published your first book, which many people know you for, The Four Hour Work Week.

• 6:23Speaker 00

  And initially, you couldn't even find a publisher. And the story of how you managed to use your blog to get it out there and sold millions of copies became a massive bestseller. And of course, since then, you've written several other books. You've launched a massively successful podcast, which hit a billion downloads last year. Congratulations. Thank you. Give us a little bit of an update about what's been going on in your life since we last spoke.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Well, there are a number of simultaneously running chapters, so supporting a lot of early-stage science.

• 6:56Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  And then I would say every three to four years, I want to try something completely off-menu professionally to see what I can learn. The angel investing after the success of the first book, the podcast after the third book, et cetera. And now I've spent two years working on a card game. This is a tabletop analog game that is called Coyote that is now launching everywhere.

• 7:26Speaker 00

  I think part of your story for people who haven't heard it is that you kind of follow your passions and your interests in ways that have led you to do not just interesting things, but things that have been lucrative, that have worked out. Like, your podcast was just kind of a, started out as just a fun little project, which turned into a real business. Now you're doing a card game, which is totally out of left field. Tell me about how you, what inspired this idea?

• 7:51Speaker 01

  So I tend to explore these off-menu, out-of-left-field things for skill development, learning, and new relationships, right? So the podcast, I launched it as a lark, but I basically wanted to ask myself, how could this win even if it fails? And I did the same thing with angel investing, just treated it as paying for a business degree. So in this particular case, I'm looking at it the same way, and it came about because I have seen in my audience as sorely needed as an antidote to digital malaise and loneliness, which is in-person social time with something that is a light lift.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  So how could I design a game that takes about two minutes to learn, 10 minutes to play, that can help people offset their screen time and all of the things that come with excessive screen time with family, with friends, that hopefully makes you a little bit smarter, right?

• 8:53Speaker 00

  And I wonder whether some of that came out of your own experience. Like, did you find yourself, maybe at certain points in the last decade, just...

• 9:03Speaker 00

  Being, you know, a slave to, to screens, to your phone, to whatever was in front of you?

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Oh, for sure. This is basically creating what I want more of in my own life, certainly. For the last, I'd say, two, maybe three years, I've had no social media apps on my phone. Because if you think, if you think you're going to use discipline to beat teams of,

• 9:31Speaker 01

  you know, computational neuroscientists and statisticians and computer scientists, who are, have billions of dollars at stake in ensuring that they can overcome any type of resistance you have to using their program or platform compulsively, you're just bringing a butter knife to a gunfight. And I think it's uncontroversial, when you look at scientific literature, these technologies, like there are costs. So my thought is, just offset it. Try to offset it a little bit. And I think that in-person still counts. We are not evolved for two-dimensional screens at 18 inches, 10 hours a day. That is not what we're evolved

• 10:17Speaker 01

  to handle at all. But I really think that there is a quality of life value to in-person. And we see some countervailing trends. So for instance, in New York City, these massive game nights in-person have become a big thing. Running clubs, people getting off of dating apps. I think that, at the very least, you know, microdosing analog is a good idea.

• 10:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, it's, we just had a, there's a crisis and a tension. And this, this is relevant for entrepreneurs, right? Because I think many of the entrepreneurs I interview on this show also have multiple interests. I mean, their, their passion might be their business or the thing they started. But I think that, in many examples, the, sort of the underlying foundation for their success has to do with being interested in lots of different things. And I wonder how you find those things.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  I would say that I just, I throw a lot against the wall. And part of the reason that I do Many different things. By the way, some of them have been dead ends and failures. But if you look at, say, the angel investing, it's still going. You look at the podcast, it's still going. And these are things that provide energy and recharge the batteries. So the energy that you might get from playing a game, spending time with two particular friends, you can transfer that to everything else that you do. And that's part of the reason why I think a lot of startup founders in particular could benefit from a little bit of identity diversification. If your entire identity and self-worth is wrapped up in your company, there are too

• 11:53Speaker 01

  many factors outside of your control that can give you a real curveball type of damage. And I just know dozens of founders where if they have a bad quarter or they have a bad year, they feel like a failure. And for that reason, having a few concurrent projects allows you to make progress in other areas to offset lack of progress in another. And then you're like, okay, this is the one out of 20 that seems to get me super excited for some reason. Let me just follow that scent trail and see where it goes.

• 12:29Speaker 00

  I love that. All right, Tim, let's go ahead and bring in our first caller. Are you ready?

• 12:35Speaker 01

  I'm ready.

• 12:35Speaker 00

  All right. Hello, caller. Welcome to the advice line. You are on with Tim Ferriss. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just one quick line about your business.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  Hi, Guy. Hi, Tim. I'm Lauren Menard. I'm usually based in San Francisco, actually, but I'm in my hometown in Beekman Town, New York, right now. I'm the CEO and founder of Gob, and we are on a mission to reinvent single-use personal care products that disappear after you use them, as they should.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  All right. So what's your product?

• 13:02Speaker 02

  Our first product is a single-use foam earplug made entirely out of mycelium.

• 13:08Speaker 00

  Which is for mushrooms?

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Yes, it's the root structure of a mushroom.

• 13:11Speaker 00

  Amazing. Congratulations. Thanks for calling in. So Lauren, the products that you have now, they're earplugs, like regular earplugs, except, I guess, and I've always wondered this, because I've used earplugs, lots of people, you throw them away, and they're probably mainly plastic. Yours, what, they biodegrade?

• 13:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, so normal foam earplugs, they're all made out of pure petroleum. They're polyurethane or PVC and they're really bad for you and the planet. And ours are bioengineered material foam that's actually bio fabricated. It's grown into its form.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Wow, and how did nobody ever think of this before?

• 13:51Speaker 02

  You know, that's exactly why I started the company, Guy. When I had the idea, it's like, why has no one done this yet?

• 13:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, tell me how you how you came up with this. Are you are you an engineer by background? Or tell me a little about about what you were doing before.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  So I'm an industrial designer. I was running a design agency, thought that was going to be the rest of my life, working with large Fortune 500 companies, helping them bridge the gap between mass manufacturing and better materials.

• 14:17Speaker 00

  And you launched the business when? When did you launch with Gob?

• 14:20Speaker 02

  Just the middle of March this year.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  Wow, and tell me a little bit about how you're doing so far. I mean, you're selling mainly to who and what kind of traction are you seeing?

• 14:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we sell directly on our website currently and also in a number of music venues. And that's a bit about like why I'm here and asking you a question.

• 14:41Speaker 00

  Go ahead, Lott, what's your question?

• 14:42Speaker 02

  So we're really lucky to be gaining mega traction in the live event space with actually a national partnership with a massive company that owns many venues. And at the same time, we're growing a really strong direct to consumer customer base for sleep. So my question, and I'd love both of your advice, is around how to successfully scale two very different verticals simultaneously without losing focus?

• 15:14Speaker 00

  All right, awesome questions. I'm going to bring Tim Ferriss in. Tim, questions maybe for Lauren or thoughts about her question?

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Lauren, if you had to focus on, say, the venues or the DTC?

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Oh, gosh.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  Which, right now, let's just say you had to make a decision, which way would you go and why?

• 15:33Speaker 02

  Oh, it's really tough because on the sleep side of things, we're getting customer feedback, like we're getting a lot of rave reviews. I feel like we're really finding that need and we're meeting that need. On the venue side of things, however, you know, we have access to guaranteed eyeballs, thousands, sometimes tens of thousands in a night. And basically, we're meeting people in these cultural, emotional moments. And Tim, you were mentioning IRL experiences. That's where people really connect with brands. So that's why I'm so torn.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Guy, do you mind if I riff for a second? Yeah, please. Okay. I would actually be curious to know if you think it could make sense to build up your coffers and generate a nice, healthy, reliable stretch of income with the music venues. And that puts you in a position to experiment with different ways of acquiring customers on the D to C side. And then you can make an informed decision based on at least some math and history, which way you want to go. Do you have any, any feelings on where you want to go with this company for yourself? Do you want to be some type

• 16:51Speaker 01

  of investor backed company? Or do you want to maintain control and remain private?

• 16:59Speaker 02

  Great question. So we are actually investor backed. We raised a pre-seed last year of a million dollars. And I'm currently raising our seed on a safe note. So we do have that outside investment. But basically, because my dream and my vision of this company is to build it into a new category. And I intend to find these kind of forgotten about personal, single use personal care products. And adopt biomaterials that can meet the need, right? And because of the nature of biomaterials, there needs to be a little bit of R and D that requires some funding. So basically, that's why I've had to do that thus far, but I intend to build this into a very large company.

• 17:45Speaker 02

  I want to take on 3M. If you're, if you're, I'm an, I'm an ambitious person.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can tell. All right, I want to pass it over to Guy, because I feel like I'm hogging the mic here.

• 17:54Speaker 00

  No, no, this is great, Lauren. I'm curious with AEG, how does that relationship or how will it work? Will they sell the earplugs at their concerts?

• 18:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we pay a marketing fee or sponsorship fee to be there for the full year at each venue. And we keep 100% of the revenue. And we sell both at concessions. So we have these little light boxes near all the cans of drinks. And we also have gob green bright vending machines.

• 18:22Speaker 00

  Right, okay. Are you able to work to make independent deals with other music festivals? And or are you, do you, are you exclusively tied in with AEG now?

• 18:33Speaker 02

  We are their exclusive hearing protection, but we are not exclusive. We, we can definitely work with other venues.

• 18:40Speaker 00

  Um, one of the things, I'm thinking of, of course, where you are in San Francisco, Outside Lands, one of the biggest festivals where people would be more receptive to really listening and hearing about the story. But the other thing I keep thinking about is airlines, where people have time to really look at a package and open, particularly in first class, when they get, do you, people get these kits in first class and they get a card with all the information about the products in there. And to me, it seems like an opportunity to get this in front of a pretty influential group of people. Have you approached airlines?

• 19:13Speaker 02

  We have, yes, and we're definitely going down that path. It takes a bit of time, but what's interesting is some of our angel investors have invested because they have received those kits in business class. And everything is quote unquote sustainable, but they still have the little foam earplugs in the plastic pouch. So that's actually a fun fact that that's what actually led quite a few people to investing in my company.

• 19:35Speaker 01

  Tim? When you are, so you're planning on raising around in the not too distant future, what is the slide in that deck going to say for how we plan to use all your money, dear investors?

• 19:48Speaker 02

  Well, the deck is together, so I've been pitching.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Okay, there we go.

• 19:52Speaker 02

  I'm in it, I'm in it. So basically, the funds will be used to set up operations. So we manufacture in the United States and we need to scale up our operations because right now we're building all of our product in a tiny little space in San Francisco and definitely need to move that into a 3PL on the East Coast because that's where a lot of our traction is. And we're also using that capital, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't using some of it for marketing, right?

• 20:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 20:21Speaker 02

  But I do have a bit of an allergy these days to advertising heavily on social media because it's just like so competitive and saturated. So I want to use that in smart ways to do IRL experiences, actually.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  Well, and also, I don't know if this is part of your deal, but if you have sponsorship deals, right? Hopefully, you have the ability, I don't know if this can be negotiated, but to use that brand on your website as, right, exclusive hearing protection provider to X. I don't know if that's something you can finagle, but using that as part of your marketing for social credibility for some of the D to C stuff.

• 21:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, but what I'm hearing from you, Tim, is that this ability to capture eyeballs and capture people in real ways in these B2B spaces is maybe more impactful gaining trust of consumers. Is that what I'm hearing?

• 21:20Speaker 01

  I think that that's one way to approach it. I wouldn't say it's more effective writ large, but it may be more effective for your stage of funding, if that makes sense, right? Because if you were like, all right, we're going to go full D to C, you're going to need more than one person to do everything that will be required to make good use of investor funding, to make that count as, like you said, in a very competitive.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Certainly online landscape, which is why you lean towards I R L. But if you had the right employee or contractors for selling into more, let's just call it venue conglomerates that run multiple locations, you could actually get a lot done with one full time, one part time, or several part time. And I think that's harder to do direct to consumer, if that makes sense.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  It does.

• 22:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I, I agree. I keep thinking about Monster Energy Drinks, right? And, and what they did and how they scaled so quickly was they made a decision when they were launched, they were going to work with motocross and MMA and heavy metal concerts. And so they focused on those three areas, targeted those fans, those kinds of people. They were going after men who loved heavy metal music. And Monster became the number two bestselling energy drink very quickly. And it's interesting here because you've got the music venues, but it sounds like the sleep side is really where you see an opportunity. And I wonder whether there's an opportunity to partner with some of these brands that

• 22:56Speaker 00

  are known for sleep, you know, a certain mattress brand or something connected to sleep, if, if that's something that you want to move towards.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's a really great thought. And it's, it's complicated, right? Because the use cases that we're attracting are so opposite. And so those brand partnerships feel very important and because they already have leverage and they already have an audience, which is really nice and good for us. And I will note, you mentioned Monster Energy. I am very lucky to have just hired the ex VP of Cult Indoctrination from Liquid Death. He just joined our team this week and he's going to be going out there and trying to get as many new brand partnerships as possible. So I'll give him that task of looking more into the sleep side, just as much as the venue side.

• 23:52Speaker 00

  Awesome.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  Lauren, what is the, the retail price?

• 23:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we sell our smallest SKU, which is two pairs for $5, four pairs for 10. And before us, the venue was selling one single pair of foamies for between $5 to $10.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  So we're right in there.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, in a really good position.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:16Speaker 00

  There you go. Laura Menard, the brand is called Godbirth. Congrats. Good luck. Keep us posted.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. What a pleasure.

• 24:22Speaker 00

  Thanks for calling in.

• 24:23Speaker 02

  All right. Thank you.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  Thanks, Laura.

• 24:25Speaker 00

  Awesome. Thanks. I love that idea.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  It's a cool idea.

• 24:28Speaker 00

  One earplug, like hack that I used when my kids were little, when they were babies, we would go and we'd get on an airplane. Because you get in an airplane with a baby and you almost oftentimes you'll sit next to somebody and you could just tell they're just like, oh, my God, I gotta sit next to this person with a baby for the next four hours. And what we would do to disarm people is I would go to the people in the row in front and behind and say, hey, I have a baby. This is a chance he's going to cry, but I brought some earplugs. And if anyone would like some, please take some. And I have the bag and I'd pass it around and nobody would ever take the earplugs, but they would always be so nice to us because we just made that gesture. So hack for any new parent.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 25:07Speaker 00

  Bring a bag of earplugs. It costs you $4 at CVS or $9.95 if you get gob.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  My buddy had an adjacent strategy, which was, anybody want a vodka tonic? I'm buying everybody drinks.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  I love it. That's great. That's great. A little bit more expensive than earplugs, but yes.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Not mutually exclusive.

• 25:27Speaker 00

  All right, we're going to take a quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller and another round of advice. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to the Advice Line right here on How I Built This Lab.

• 25:41Speaker 00

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• 29:17Speaker 00

  Welcome back to the Vice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz and my guest today is entrepreneur and investor Tim Ferriss. And we are taking your calls. So hello, hello caller.

• 29:27Speaker 03

  Hi, my name is Emily. I own EB and Co., which is a women's accessories brand based out of Kansas City, Missouri. We specialize in sizeless gifting and we have mainly hair accessories and jewelry. We were founded in 2012 and yeah, a Midwest girly.

• 29:46Speaker 00

  Nice, Emily, welcome to the show. So EB and Co. accessories, so like hair bands? Like are you selling rings, earrings, bracelets?

• 29:55Speaker 03

  All of the above and more. Earrings are kind of the big hero product for us. I have a manufacturer in India that I work with that does hand beaded stuff. So we have some custom headbands, scrunchies, all the fun things that make an outfit look more finished when it's not.

• 30:14Speaker 00

  Awesome. And you have a brick and mortar store in Kansas City?

• 30:17Speaker 03

  I have two brick and mortar stores. I also wholesale at the airport and I rent booths inside other stores as well.

• 30:25Speaker 00

  And are most of your sales coming in through the store? Are you also selling online? Where are you seeing most of your revenue come in from?

• 30:32Speaker 03

  Well, last year was a bit of an outlier because Taylor Swift wore my ring and we went viral.

• 30:39Speaker 00

  Wow, she wore one of your rings?

• 30:41Speaker 01

  A bit of an outlier.

• 30:42Speaker 00

  What was the ring, what was the ring she was wearing?

• 30:45Speaker 03

  Well, it was Travis Kelsey themed, of course, guy.

• 30:48Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 30:49Speaker 03

  This is Jersey and we developed a relationship with Donna and we kept gifting her things that were Travis Kelsey themed that we created and.

• 30:57Speaker 00

  Donna's his mom, right?

• 30:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, my apologies.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  Okay, I got you. Okay, so you made rings that had a, like his jersey was on the ring?

• 31:06Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 31:06Speaker 00

  Like, like, it's, okay, I got you. So Taylor Swift wore one of your rings?

• 31:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, to the AFC Championship, which qualified them to go to the Super Bowl. So if you can imagine my mind being blown and then all of a sudden like that Shopify ding happening and it's just like ding ding ding ding ding ding.

• 31:25Speaker 00

  Okay, now I'm, now I'm looking at, now I see it because you have all, you've got these rings with the jerseys. So you have Taylor Swift wore one of these rings and imagine it had an impact on your sales, right?

• 31:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, so my sales went up 50% from 2023 to 2024.

• 31:43Speaker 00

  Wow, wow, amazing.

• 31:44Speaker 03

  So yeah, we doubled and it's been bananas. It's been a wild ride and I hope to give her the biggest bear hug someday.

• 31:52Speaker 00

  I bet. All right. So tell us what your, what your question is for us today.

• 31:56Speaker 03

  So my question is in 2024, my brick and mortar sales went up 37%. My wholesale orders went up over 300%. And so I'm trying to decide, even though the majority of my business, about 90% of my revenue coming in is in that retail, direct to consumer. My wholesale side is what has a much significant more growth. So should I follow what is, where the money's coming from or should I follow what areas growing the, the most aggressively?

• 32:32Speaker 00

  All right, lots to think about. Tim Ferriss, I want to bring you in here. Questions for Emily.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure. Well, congrats on a lot of different aspects of the business. You've made it past a lot of places where other companies do not cross the river, so to speak. So congrats on that. Yeah, I don't even know what to say about Taylor Swift. I would say. You know, that may be a nonrecurring phenomenon. And so probably don't want to bank on that, but my God, congratulations. Let me ask a couple of questions related to products. Are the earrings the best selling category of product?

• 33:06Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 33:07Speaker 01

  Okay. By how much?

• 33:10Speaker 03

  Say about 50%.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Okay, so, so the earrings are huge. In terms of, this is coming to your question related to wholesale and say the brick and mortar. So you're talking about revenue. If we're talking about bottom line profit, however you want to define that, what, what is actually contributing the most at the moment? It's still the, is it still the brick and mortar, would you say?

• 33:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's the retail side for sure. So D to C definitely gives us more revenue. Last year it accounted for 89% of all the revenue. And 13% was wholesale. You know, the great thing about wholesale is that, you know, there's not as many expenses. Right? But at the same time, it's just not accounting for as much revenue. So that's why I'm having a hard time deciding which area to focus.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  If you were to basically get the wholesale up to the point that it was generating the same as your current brick and mortar, how would you feel about that versus keeping the wholesale where it is and basically doing the same doubling, but with brick and mortar?

• 34:18Speaker 03

  I mean, wholesale is great because it essentially accesses Shopify order. It's just bigger and I already have all those systems in place. You know, I have a fulfillment manager. I have an assistant manager. We ship out of our store. So it, it doesn't take more calories from me to execute that. But opening more stores takes a lot more energy. Right? Like I have to approve everything and, and you know, go, go sites and find what feels good, negotiate, you know, wholesale is just another online order, which doesn't take any energy from me. So I would love that. And that's one reason why we're putting so much energy into growing that. But it's just hard to prioritize it that much when 90% of the revenue is coming from direct to consumer.

• 35:03Speaker 00

  Emily, do you have a, a sales team or a salesperson who focuses on wholesale?

• 35:10Speaker 03

  It's me.

• 35:11Speaker 00

  It's you.

• 35:11Speaker 03

  I'm over here.

• 35:14Speaker 00

  I mean, is there a world where you can hire somebody, maybe even on a part-time basis, to only focus on building the wholesale business?

• 35:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally. I mean, I think that has some legs to it for sure. I'm really trying to focus also on like customized pieces too. And that was a new area that we're developing. So I've been really focusing a lot on building those direct to other business like relationships. But that's definitely something that I want to work on.

• 35:42Speaker 00

  And have you done trade shows, any trade shows?

• 35:45Speaker 03

  I haven't. I haven't. No.

• 35:48Speaker 00

  Because that would really be the fastest way for you to get some wholesale deals done. I mean, it sounds like you really want to build the wholesale part of your business out. That what you're saying is it, the potential is greater there, which I agree with. And in some ways, it's, it's easier. There are obviously downsides too, but it's easier with what you are doing, rather than trying to open up, you know, other brick and mortars. Because brick and mortar is expensive, it's challenging, there's a lot of, a lot of moving parts there. And it depends and relies on foot traffic.

• 36:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure. And it's done and really well for me. And so I think that's another thing that's like, man, it's a lot of fun to have a space where people enjoy, you know, talking about your digital detoxing, like getting out of your house, getting off of your computer, walking around a store, trying things on. So I enjoy creating those spaces.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Well, let me hop in here for a second, just to say, I don't want to discount that. So if, if the only thing that mattered for your quality of life were growing the business, then there would be one line of thought and a certain set of advice that we could give. But people start businesses and run businesses for a million different reasons. And not everyone's trying to build the next startup that they sell to Meta or Google or whoever, right? So if you really enjoy the time in those spaces, I think that number one, they're not mutually exclusive, but you could take the attention on growing brick and mortar.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  And apply it to wholesale for a period of time, right? You decide like for six to 12 months, I'm really going to focus on wholesale. Can still keep the brick and mortar running, but maybe there are places where we can streamline. Maybe there's extra help I can bring in. And I agree with Guy that trade shows could be interesting also. You don't necessarily need a booth. If you just have samples of your products, you can meet not only direct wholesale customers, but also potential distributors. That's going to affect your profit margins. So I think it's relatively speaking, very low cost way of doing a lot of really valuable in-person research.

• 37:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally. And you know, when people get their hands on it, they are like, I'm in. And so, yeah, I think I can definitely see your point in that. When people try it on, it's, it's easy.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Guy?

• 38:11Speaker 00

  I think Tim's idea is great. You know, make, make a decision that you're going to spend six to 12 months on this thing, on this wholesale side and test it out. And, and you're trying to position yourself for the day after the Taylor Swift bump ends, but then you won't need it anymore because you've built out the wholesale business.

• 38:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that sounds great. You know, I tried to get some Brain Quick in today and I couldn't get my hands on it. I was like, what's going to make me a sharper shooter? I couldn't find it.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's been a few decades. I sold it, so I'm not sure what they did with it. Maybe it got set out to pasture for all I know.

• 38:49Speaker 00

  Emily Boardner, the brand is called EB and Co. Congrats, good luck. Keep us posted.

• 38:53Speaker 03

  Thank you. And I just want to say you both have been so instrumental in inspiring me to make my business. So thank you.

• 39:01Speaker 00

  Thank you. Thanks for saying that. Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, next up after the break, another caller with another business challenge. I'm Guy Raz and we're answering your business questions right here on the advice line on How I Built This Lab.

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• 40:59Speaker 00

  Welcome back to the Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz and today I'm taking your calls with entrepreneur, investor, author, and podcaster, Tim Ferriss. Tim, you ready to get our next caller on?

• 41:09Speaker 01

  I am ready, let's do it.

• 41:11Speaker 00

  All right, let's bring in our final caller. Welcome to the Advice Line. You are on with Tim Ferriss. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business.

• 41:18Speaker 07

  Hey, Tim and Guy. Thank you so much for having me. I'm Kimberly Becker and I'm a clothing designer calling in from Woolwich, Maine. My brand is Kay Becker. It's a collection that I've designed with a focus on women over 40 years old, which is me. And this is a group of women who have been looking for high-quality clothes for quite a long time. It's an underserved population in the fashion industry.

• 41:47Speaker 00

  And you designed all the clothing?

• 41:48Speaker 07

  I do, yeah.

• 41:49Speaker 00

  Wow, amazing. And they're manufactured overseas in Asia?

• 41:53Speaker 07

  No, I have a team in New York City and the fabrics are sourced from Japan and Italy, mostly. A lot of deadstock fabric, so most of the fabric is quite sustainably sourced and really high-quality.

• 42:08Speaker 00

  And deadstock means fabric that was, that one manufactured too much of and so was available?

• 42:14Speaker 07

  Yeah, exactly.

• 42:14Speaker 00

  That's awesome. I love that. And I'm looking at your website now and it'd be beautiful. I mean, amazing. So did you, you studied as a fashion designer as your background?

• 42:23Speaker 07

  I'm actually a textile designer by training, which I bring a unique angle to the apparel industry. I worked in almost every cotton mill in America before they all closed.

• 42:34Speaker 00

  Wow. And, and it's got a little bit of an Eileen Fisher kind of vibe to go in for a little bit.

• 42:39Speaker 07

  Yeah, so I listened to your interview with her.

• 42:43Speaker 00

  Years ago, yes.

• 42:44Speaker 07

  Yeah, she really, I mean, changed the fashion industry for women, gave women a way to dress in a, that, that sort of Japanese aesthetic is so timeless and so beautiful. But I almost think of myself as her alter ego. We're not trying to make sort of a simple boxy silhouette. We're trying to bring style, fashion-forward, sort of whatever was on the Paris runways, so that it's not dumbed down. It's not timeless. It's not shapeless.

• 43:15Speaker 00

  How many years have you, have you been doing this?

• 43:17Speaker 07

  So I launched in October 2023, so I'm quite new. And from year one to year two, we've doubled our sales. I sell direct to consumer on my website, but

• 43:30Speaker 07

  Really primarily, I am doing this all in person.

• 43:33Speaker 00

  So you are the designer and the CEO and the sales rep. It's all you, basically?

• 43:39Speaker 07

  Basically.

• 43:40Speaker 00

  And have you broken past 100,000 in sales, 200,000 in sales?

• 43:46Speaker 07

  At the end of this year, I believe we'll be at 75,000 in sales. So we're slow and steady here.

• 43:52Speaker 00

  Awesome. All right. Let's hear your questions and then we'll dive in a bit deeper.

• 43:55Speaker 07

  Okay, so I want to shift away from an inventory model to a preorder model.

• 44:00Speaker 00

  In other words, you're carrying inventory and you want to shift away from that model?

• 44:04Speaker 07

  Yeah, so being a small, sustainable indie brand, we can't compete with the huge corporations that massively overproduce and then deeply discount and unload at the end of the season. It's not, it doesn't work for us financially and it's also just not sustainable. It's not good for the earth to be doing it that way. However, the US population isn't so game to wait five, six, seven weeks for a garment. So the idea of preorders that we actually take the orders and then manufacture what's ordered. So my question is sort of twofold. When do I make that move from an inventory model? And how do I shift the mindset from instant gratification to patience, knowing you're going to get something great at the end of the day?

• 44:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, a lot to think about here. And as you know, we've done a lot of apparel on the show. And for people who are unfamiliar with the industry, you've got to anticipate what somebody's going to order. And the more you make, the higher the chances you're going to lose money because you're making these all, these high quality material, making it in New York. So I understand the challenge and you're looking at a way to basically show off a design, but get taken preorders. So then you've got the money in hand and then you only order what you need instead of having all this excess inventory, right?

• 45:21Speaker 07

  Exactly.

• 45:22Speaker 00

  Okay. Tim Ferriss, I want to bring you in here. A lot to think about. Kimberly's, I mean, what she's doing is awesome, but consumer behavior is consumer behavior.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  All right, so I'm looking at the website. I like the website, by the way.

• 45:37Speaker 07

  Thank you.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  Very elegantly done. I had a definition question for me because I have sadly no fashion sense. But what does choose the first piece of your capsule closet today mean? What is capsule closet?

• 45:50Speaker 07

  So in the sustainability world, the idea of a capsule closet is that you can have 10, 15, 18 pieces that you can mix and match, you can wear again and again. That's the idea. I actually have clients that are basically every time I release a new piece, which I think of as the next piece in the capsule closet, they are buying it. They're like, I'm building my capsule through you.

• 46:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, Tim, you do have a capsule closet. It's t-shirts and jeans and you mix and match.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  So a couple of thoughts. I would say one company you might want to check out, run by a friend of mine, but it just so happens there might be some parallels. It could be pretty interesting. His name is Sep, but it's spelled S-E-P-H. Skerritt, propercloth.com is his company. And he makes people wait. And the company has been going for, I want to say 10 years now, but started off with something like 10 different fabrics and one type of shirt in his apartment. And now it's this very successful company.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  So I would say that there are exceptions to the US customers not being ready to wait. So I would go out of your way to try to find some of those outliers. The second thing. Is that in terms of when to make the switch, I would reframe that question. How do I experiment? Because that's a risky switch. And so what I thought of were, say, limited drops where you don't make a full switch, but you test the waters to say, hey, guys, we're running a really limited edition as an experiment. Here's why it's exciting. The race goes to the swift. We're only

• 47:44Speaker 01

  accepting this many orders and then you're going to have to wait four to six weeks. Right. But you, but you make it a feature instead of a bug.

• 47:52Speaker 07

  That's a great idea. And it would go right. It would dovetail beautifully with the short amount, small amounts of fabric I'm sourcing in those dead stock, like beautiful Italian fabrics I can only get 87 yards of or something. So

• 48:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Like that's part of the story.

• 48:06Speaker 00

  I wonder if the, the term pre-order could be, like, could you, could you say made to order? I don't know if that's going to make a difference or move the needle that much, but maybe pre-order scares people because they think, oh, it's, it's like a Kickstarter. You get, you know, how many times have you given money to a Kickstarter?

• 48:23Speaker 01

  May or may not get shipped.

• 48:24Speaker 00

  Never, ever arrives. But maybe made to order, like, hey, you know, we're gonna, you, you put the, you make this order and we're going to start working on it right away. It's worth trying. Again, it may not move the needle, but it's worth trying, playing around with the language.

• 48:37Speaker 07

  That's a great idea. Yeah.

• 48:39Speaker 00

  Kimberly, I'm, I'm wondering, I mean, are you hoping to move exclusively to this model?

• 48:45Speaker 07

  Um, so in the long run, yes, it's, it, in a way that goes to the whole idea of that, Tim, you talk about the smarter, not harder concept. So you design some, I designed 12 pieces a year and once a month, a new piece drops, those orders come in, the manufacturing happens, they all get shipped together, like consolidating the effort. But also then clients know when the next piece is coming. So they're, they're watching for it. They're waiting for it, that Friday night drop. That would be the the smartest way for me to reduce the amount of effort it takes to sell the products as well, right?

• 49:25Speaker 00

  Yeah. While you're working on the transition, is there a way to keep bestsellers in stock, right? Or maybe you design sweaters or things that have a sort of a longer, more sort of timeless lifespan that are always in stock as you transition more and more to the made to order? Because there are things you can do to incentivize people, free shipping, maybe they get inducted into a club, maybe people get a first look at what you're working on, maybe they get an insight into the sketches you're working on or photographs of you, you know, kind of cutting material or drafting designs. I mean, that could be something that you may want to experiment with, too.

• 50:03Speaker 07

  You know, it's funny you say that because earlier when Tim was talking about the his friends brand and the benefits that come from that sort of exclusivity, I was thinking it's the menswear angle on things is so different than the way we sell women's wear. But one of the aspects that I'm trying to embrace is to think more about menswear and how it's pitched, because you guys are a much harder sell. You don't buy as much and so you actually require a little bit more carrying through. And so in the idea of the club idea, which I love calling it that, it never occurred to me to do that, but to send swatches of fabric for a new piece, because the fabric is such a big part, the quality is such a big part of my brand, to send a swatch of

• 50:47Speaker 07

  fabric and say that you're getting exclusive, like first touch, like first opportunity to see this beautiful gabardine that we're going to be making the next blazer in. It's coming out in a few weeks. Keep your eye open when it drops, you know, you would be one of the first people to get your hands on it.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure. I feel, and also coming back to what you said about consolidating effort, I love the idea of shipping swatches, but that seems like it could turn into a hell of a lot of work. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing to do, but you might be able to scratch some of the desire for community, where you give them a peek behind the curtain, using something that's off the shelf, like Patreon or private YouTube. Something like that, like, hey, guys, this is what I'm looking, this is what I'm working on right now. And I'm always looking for low cost, fast experiments that are easy to do. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But if it does work, then all of a sudden,

• 51:48Speaker 01

  you've created a new type of loyalty program, which has a community where they get to be part of it.

• 51:53Speaker 07

  I would also give people something to talk about, about the brand that's unique.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:57Speaker 07

  Right now is everything. It's word of mouth is everything in this brand. Like, we have to get people to the website, or it's never going to happen.

• 52:04Speaker 00

  Well, it's just, you gotta get that club going, the exclusive club.

• 52:08Speaker 07

  I love it.

• 52:08Speaker 00

  Yeah. Kimberly, thanks so much for calling in, Kay Becker Designs. Good luck.

• 52:14Speaker 07

  Thank you so much. It was really lovely talking to both of you.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  Thanks for joining us.

• 52:17Speaker 00

  Nice to be here, Kimberly. Tim, I'm not, not surprised. I mean, we've done, you know, over 100 of these episodes now, and I'm not surprised that you really are like, one of the best. You have great advice.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Thanks, man. It's part of the fun of business for me, right? It's a puzzle. And you can get handed a different Rubik's Cube every day, every week.

• 52:39Speaker 00

  Yep. Um, Tim, before I let you go, I want to ask you a question that I've asked every returning founder on this show, which is if you go back to when you were kind of building your business, what advice could you have given yourself that would have been helpful?

• 52:54Speaker 01

  I would say, first, there's no, there's no one right way to do it. And there's no one better finish line than another, in the sense that you don't have to build the next venture backed startup. You don't have to have your company bought by X, R, Z. You don't have to grow at a 200% per year. You might have a business that doesn't grow at all, but it is deeply meaningful to you and you impact people, or you love the craft you're involved with. So I would probably say that. And then the second thing I would say is,

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Mind your mental health along the way.

• 53:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Right?

• 53:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Get outside, get some sunlight, spend time with your friends. As much as you pay attention to the business health, also pay attention to the the mental health and the social health side of things, I would say.

• 53:44Speaker 00

  I love it. That's great advice. That's Tim Ferriss, entrepreneur, investor, author, and podcast host, and now the inventor of a new card game, Coyote. Go check it out. It's available pretty much everywhere you can think of. Tim, thanks so much for coming back on the show.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  What a pleasure. Always nice to spend time with you, Guy. Thanks for having me.

• 54:03Speaker 00

  Thank you. And by the way, if you haven't heard Tim's original, How I Built This episode, please go and check it out. We will put a link to it in the podcast description. And here is one of my favorite moments from that interview.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  There's a difference between persuading someone to purchase a product and debating with someone who has no intention of ever changing their mind.

• 54:25Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  I wasn't making that my job, which I think a lot of people do. They make it their job to convince the world, and you shouldn't convince the world. You should convince the people who match most closely to what you're providing.

• 54:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  So I came to believe really early on that it's not about the number of people who don't get it. It's about the number of people who do get it.

• 54:43Speaker 00

  Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. And by the way, we checked in with our callers, and we are happy to say that their businesses are doing pretty well, and they're following some of our advice. Gob earplugs were featured as one of Time Magazine's best inventions of 2025. And in March, Lauren appeared on Shark Tank. She's now taken Gob back into stealth mode, and she'll be launching a new product very soon. Emily has now expanded to four brick and mortar locations, and her new customized jewelry line is already accounting for 15% of her overall revenue. As for Kimberly, she continued expanding her clothing line. And she's seeing a lot more repeat customers, which is always a great sign. She'll also be exhibiting at the Curate Fashion Trade Show in New York this September.

• 55:28Speaker 00

  So congrats again to Lauren, Emily, and Kimberly. And of course, if you are working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues that you're currently facing, because we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice memo at [email protected] or call us at 1-800-433-1298. Leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you, and we'll put all of this information in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Nora Gill with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Andrea Bruce. Our audio engineer was Sina LaFredo.

• 56:11Speaker 00

  Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Carla Estevez, Casey Herman, Kerry Thompson, Catherine Seifer, Ramel Wood, Sam Paulson, Neva Grant, and Elaine Coats. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.