Pod Insights How I Built This with Guy Raz Advice Line with Stacy Madison of Stacy’s Pita Chips About this episode Stacy’s Pita Chips co-founder Stacy Madison joins Guy on the Advice Line to answer questions from three early-stage entrepreneurs. Plus, Stacy talks about her hard-won experience of knowing when to stick with an idea… and when to walk away.
First up, Sam wants to figure out how to leverage his popular pizza instagram account into the go-to place for men to learn how to bake. Then, Alex wants to know how to make his Peruvian pisco brand stand out in a relatively unknown liquor category. And finally, Stephanie is eager to learn how she can rejuvenate what had been her family’s 88-year-old candy business.
Thank you to the founders of Dough Guy, SUYO, and Stuckey’s for being a part of our show.
If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode, leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to [email protected] or call 1-800-433-1298.
And be sure to go back and listen to Stacy’s episode from 2019 where she shares how a decision to make chips with theleftover pita from her sandwich cart https://wondery.com/shows/how-i-built-this/episode/10386-stacys-pita-chips-stacy-madison/ led to a multi-million dollar snack category that didn’t exist before her.
This episode was produced by Rommel Wood with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Andrea Bruce. Our audio engineer was Robert Rodriguez.
You can follow HIBT on Twitter https://twitter.com/HowIBuiltThis & Instagram https://www.instagram.com/howibuiltthis and sign up for Guy's free newsletter at guyraz.com http://guyraz.com/ and on Substack https://guyraz.substack.com/.
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See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Transcript 11,450 words · 7 speakers
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6:12 Speaker 00 Hello and welcome to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show, who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. And you can also send us a voice memo at [email protected] . And make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from some of the world's greatest entrepreneurs.
6:53 Speaker 00 You can sign up for free at guyraz.com or on Substack. And we'll put all of this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Stacy Madison. She's the founder and namesake of Stacy's Pita Chips. Stacy, it's great to have you back on the show.
7:09 Speaker 02 Thank you so much. It's so, I was really excited and I'm flattered that you asked me.
7:14 Speaker 00 We love, you were first on the show in 2019. You went to the How I Built This Summit. And as always, for those of you who haven't heard Stacy's original episode, we will put a link to it in the episode description. Stacy, so many listeners of yours, we have like 600-plus episodes in our archives. So many people tell me yours is their all-time favorite. I hear it again and again, all the time. And do people still come up to you and say, "Oh, I remember your story from How I Built This"?
7:40 Speaker 02 They do. That's the connection that they make.
7:42 Speaker 00 It's so, it's crazy. I mean, people, it's an amazing story. I mean, you talk about how you started out as a social worker. You were in Washington DC and then you moved around a bit and then you tried a bunch of different things. And then you and your partner at the time, Mark, you decided to come back to Boston area where you guys bought a hot dog cart and kind of turned it into a sandwich cart, like pita sandwiches. And you had all this extra pita every day. So you started to toast it and toss it in Parmesan cheese. And then you would offer these toasted pita chips to people waiting in line for their pita sandwich. And this is how Stacy's Pita Chips began. I mean, they were, it's an amazing story because
8:21 Speaker 00 they were so popular. It became this huge brand. It eventually sold to Pepsi in 2006. I know that you started a couple of brands. You had a juice bar. You had an energy bar business, which were awesome. I loved them. I know neither of them are going at the moment. But, but tell me a little bit about, about what you've been up to in the last couple of years.
8:42 Speaker 02 Yeah. So I'd like to say I've been raising my kids and both of them are seniors in college and gonna graduate this year. I had Stacy's Juice Bar, which I have to say was really, next to Stacy's Pita Chips, was my passion because when I started the Pita Chip Company, you know, I was selling healthy sandwiches. And with the juice bar, I was able to kind of make the cart come to life and make, you know, healthy lunches come to fruition.
9:19 Speaker 00 Yeah.
9:19 Speaker 02 Through juices and smoothies. And we sold salads and quinwas and, and we sold the Bebold bars.
9:26 Speaker 00 You had basically started an energy bar. They were so good. They were like, they had oats and chocolate chips and they were so popular that
9:34 Speaker 02 They were so good.
9:35 Speaker 00 People said, you've got to sell these in the stores. You've got to sell these at grocery stores.
9:38 Speaker 02 Yeah. Everybody, everybody was, you know, would buy one with their lunch. And I had a huge following. I was in the suburbs. You know, it was very kind of local. You know, I'm not a social media kind of person. So we also got a buyer, actually, who listened to How I Built This and was interested, you know, they'd had the Pita Chips forever and was interested in buying the bars. And so we got 1,200 stores, put more money into it, produced enough to stock the shelves, produced enough to, you know, have backup for it. And yeah, and then the pandemic hit and then it ended up costing a lot of money.
10:21 Speaker 02 It definitely burned me out of the entrepreneurial world and
10:29 Speaker 02 You know, it's still, it still hits hard.
10:31 Speaker 00 I can imagine how much energy that was sucking from you. And I guess, I mean, it sounds like it just wasn't fun anymore.
10:40 Speaker 02 Crazy. What were we doing?
10:42 Speaker 00 You know, it's, it's, and it's really hard.
10:44 Speaker 02 $250,000 in bars.
10:47 Speaker 00 Yeah.
10:48 Speaker 02 And had to make the decision, am I going to take and throw $250,000 in the dumpster? Or am I going to invest some more and try to make a go of it?
10:58 Speaker 00 Yeah. At a certain point, you're, you're sort of saying, well, I can pour more money into this and keep going. Or I can say, all right, it was an interesting experiment and move on. I mean, you, there are all these other things that you do. You are an investor. I think you're an early investor in Sweetgreen and Evolution Juice and a couple of other cool food brands. I want to go back to Stacy's for a moment because that story, it's a story that, that comes up often in my conversations. In part because it, it was the side hustle to the main hustle, right? Like, and really what you started to see was people asking for those chips. It wasn't part of the plan. And I, and I wonder, you know, if, if you can kind of speak to this idea of, of when you know
11:41 Speaker 00 that actually the side project is really the thing that you have to hit the gas on. And, and the thing that you, that you thought you were doing, you've got to kind of roll it up. When did you start to understand that the sandwiches were not actually the business? It was these chips that you were handing out for free to people waiting in line?
12:01 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's kind of like you have to make a decision. Am I going, am I in the fork in the road? Am I going right? Am I going left? Right? And the decision was based on, um, we're in New England. And so your income's really only in the good weather. And, uh, over the winter. Worked on the marketing, the packaging, went to trade shows, talked to other snack food companies, you know, and kind of got it ready to launch. The second year, we had, you know, a little help at the food cart so that we could focus more on the chips. And then eventually, we, in 97, we ended up just, yeah, doing the chips.
12:45 Speaker 00 It just made more sense because of the, the, just the demand that you were hearing from people, the chatter? Or did you actually start to see the dollars coming in were heavily, more heavily weighed toward the chips?
12:57 Speaker 02 Chatter. And, and can I, can you make me an extra bag, like just bulk, so I can take them home? And people, you know, asking you questions like that. You know, it, listen to your customers.
13:08 Speaker 00 Yeah.
13:08 Speaker 02 I mean, that is so super important. And that, and then, you know, you ask the question, well, when do you know when you switch or you make that decision? My answer would be, you need to prove out the concept outside of just where you are. So you have to take, whether it's taking the bags of chips to the stores, talking to the stores, sampling them at the stores, things like that, like, you know, that's what helps you make those kinds of decisions.
13:41 Speaker 00 Yeah. Before we get to our callers, I want to ask you just one more question, which is, you know, when you started this, right, the food cart, this was in the 90s. And when you started this, it was like people had to show up at the cart, and you'd find out about it because somebody would say, oh, I'm going to Stacy, I'm going to this Pita Cart in Boston Common or Downtown Crossing. Now, you would have an Instagram account, and you would have a bunch of social media accounts, and...
14:07 Speaker 02 Yeah, I hate it.
14:08 Speaker 00 I hear you.
14:09 Speaker 02 I hate it.
14:10 Speaker 00 I mean, do you think that if you were starting Stacy's cart today, and then the chips, would you, do you think you'd have to go about it differently to have the same kind of impact?
14:22 Speaker 02 I would say I'd have to be a...
14:26 Speaker 02 Victim of the times. I think it would be very hard to speak to this, to the times right now and to this generation if you don't get on their own microphone. Like if they're on Instagram or TikTok or whatever. It is hard to reach people. So that's a, that's an important part of it.
14:49 Speaker 00 Yeah.
14:49 Speaker 02 So.
14:50 Speaker 00 All right, Stacy, why don't we go ahead and take our first caller? You ready?
14:53 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, definitely.
14:55 Speaker 00 Definitely ready. Okay, hello caller, welcome to the advice line. You're on with Stacy Madison, founder of Stacy's Pizza Chips. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just one quick line about your business.
15:06 Speaker 03 Yeah, hey, Stacy and Guy. My name is Sam Kegel and I am based in Utah. I'm the founder of Dough Guy. It's an online community and an e-commerce brand dedicated to homemade pizza making. And so we provide the physical tools, the resources and the inspiration so that anybody can make restaurant quality pizza right at home with nothing but a regular home oven.
15:26 Speaker 00 Got it. What do you, what do you sell?
15:28 Speaker 03 It's a, it's a pizza steel. So it's a 16 inch by 16 inch steel that you bake pizzas on in a normal oven.
15:34 Speaker 00 So like a pizza stone, but it's a piece of steel, which I've had before. And you put the steel in the oven and then you heat the oven up. And then the idea is that you're going to get a pizza that's more like a restaurant pizza.
15:45 Speaker 03 Exactly.
15:46 Speaker 00 Awesome. Tell me, when did you start the business?
15:48 Speaker 03 Yeah, so I officially launched the business April of this year, about end of April. So it's been pretty recent.
15:53 Speaker 00 And how did you come? I mean, were you like a, were you a baker? Were you working in restaurants?
15:59 Speaker 03 No, so I've, I mean, I've always loved baking. I've always loved baking like desserts and breads, but I had never really dabbled with pizza. And so the story goes, so summer 2024 last year, I quit my job to become a stay at home dad. And I, like I said, I always loved baking, but to keep my sanity. I decided to dive into homemade pizza making and start an Instagram page to document the journey. And I discovered you don't need like a fancy pizza oven to make really good pizza at home. And so in January, I decided to do a series where I made a pizza every single day until I got a Dave Portnoy pizza review. And so obviously.
16:33 Speaker 00 Wow. How'd you do that? How'd you get Dave Portnoy to review your pizza?
16:36 Speaker 03 So I.
16:37 Speaker 00 Cause he's like the pizza king.
16:38 Speaker 03 He's the pizza king. And he's a pretty controversial guy, so it kinda took off. But like I said, so I started a series where I made a pizza every single day, posted every single day until I got his attention. And I flew out to Chicago and I got a pizza review from him. The first homemade pizza, first pizza from Utah, and he gave me a really good score. And I had about two weeks before the review came out where I basically set up my entire company, set up everything with my manufacturer, because I had nothing ready to go, because I thought this was gonna take like a year or longer. Like I didn't think he was just gonna like have any random guy come out and make him a pizza. But the day it came out, I had launched my business and after that was off to the races.
17:20 Speaker 00 How much have you done so far in sales?
17:22 Speaker 03 Yeah, so since April, we've done just north of 300,000 in revenue.
17:26 Speaker 00 It's awesome. And, and, and congrats on getting Dave Portnoy to review it. I've had a pizza steal in the past. It's an awesome, you know, this is not, again, you, this is not a new product. You didn't invent the pizza steal. But you, you basically have a community of people.
17:43 Speaker 03 Yeah.
17:44 Speaker 00 I guess who follow you on, on social media and, and you make pizzas and stuff?
17:48 Speaker 03 Yep. Yeah, that's right. And so that's really where I differentiate myself. And so I built this community on Instagram. I have, since January, I've grown to about 130,000 followers. And people are very into it. People are very loyal to the brand Doe guy and they love everything pizza making, because my, my whole brand is making it as simple and easy and fun as possible and to show that really anybody can do it. It's not like some hidden or gate-kept thing that's so hard to do to make pizza. Anybody can do it and it's really fun and easy to do.
18:19 Speaker 02 It's fun to do with your kids, too.
18:20 Speaker 00 It is. Let me, let me ask you a question. I have, I've been, for years have had pizza ovens, right? And, and the beauty of these things is they get really hot. Usually you wanna cook your pizza like between, you know, 600 and 750.
18:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
18:37 Speaker 00 A conventional home oven only gets up to 500, 550.
18:41 Speaker 03 Yep.
18:41 Speaker 00 So can you, I mean, why would somebody pick the steel over a, like an uni pizza oven? Or even a big green egg?
18:49 Speaker 03 Yeah, I mean, there's lots of reasons. The first reason, it's a lot cheaper and it's a lot more convenient to do. A lot like, how many Americans live in an apartment where they can't have a pizza oven outside? And they can't have all this space to make pizzas? And that's where the pizza steel comes in. So pizza stones have been around forever. They don't get quite hot enough to get that perfect blackened undercarrots that everyone loves on a New York style slice of pizza. The steel gets up high enough. It can preheat up to 550 plus degrees and it retains its heat super good. So it transfers to the pizza and makes it super easy to make really high quality pizza at home.
19:26 Speaker 00 All right. Before we dive in further, tell us what your question is.
19:29 Speaker 03 Yeah, so I've grown this awesome community online. But my vision for Dogi actually is to turn it into a full fledged brand for all things baking. Right now, like most of the momentum depends on me personally. I'm running the entire thing. I'm editing the videos. I'm doing all the content all by myself. But I want to scale it in a way where the brand can thrive without me at the center of everything. And so my question is, how can I make the leap from being the guy on Instagram that makes pizza? To building a lasting brand that stands on its own?
19:59 Speaker 00 All right. Awesome question. I want to bring Stacy Madison in. Thoughts for Sam? Questions for Sam? Answers for Sam?
20:07 Speaker 02 What you were saying about how do you get it from you?
20:11 Speaker 03 Mm hmm.
20:11 Speaker 02 I mean, you gotta be in it.
20:14 Speaker 03 Yeah.
20:14 Speaker 02 You have tapped into the secret sauce of the internet. And do you know how many companies are trying to do what you've already done? And you have a following and you have, I mean, you can't go. You're the value right now.
20:34 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, okay.
20:36 Speaker 00 I have a question for you. What you you mentioned that you have this idea for creating a full like a full on baking brand. So you've got the steel. Tell me like, let's just get a crystal ball. If you had your Barbie dream house, right? I always say that because when I was a little kid, I watched my sisters play with the Barbie dream house. And I kind of wanted one too, because it was a pretty awesome house. You had a pool and all that cool stuff.
20:59 Speaker 00 You're looking at the dream house. What is the what? What kind of things are you selling in 10 years from now?
21:04 Speaker 03 Yeah, so obviously, I'll think pizza making in terms of like, cutting and launching even hot honey type things, things that could sit on shelves. But also bread, desserts, anything baking related. And it happens to be so my audience is mostly male. And so there isn't really a baking brand that exists that is targeted towards the male audience. But I think there's a big, there's a big market for men for men to get into sourdough baking and things like that.
21:32 Speaker 02 Totally.
21:33 Speaker 00 Do you have? I mean, what I I wonder, I mean, I agree with Stacy 100%. Right now, you're it's too early. You have to be the brand guy. And you're going to have to do everything for a while and really establish the steel as the steel to get. And you're right. I mean, if you want to buy an uni or a Gosny or one of these ovens, you're looking at 3, 4, 500 more dollars. Where and how much is your retail for your your product?
21:55 Speaker 03 119.
21:56 Speaker 00 119. So yeah, it's a great deal. You can make a pretty great pizza at home with a steel. I I wonder whether you are, I mean, to me, it seems like you have an opportunity. How many and how many followers you have on Instagram?
22:09 Speaker 03 About 130,000.
22:11 Speaker 00 That's amazing. I mean, now you have an opportunity there. And it's all about pizza, basically.
22:15 Speaker 03 It's all pizza right now. Yeah.
22:16 Speaker 00 Do you have? Have you put in any feature any like, community content like like pizza fails that, you know, great pizza fails from people or anything like that? Because everyone screws up pizza the first time they make it off the peel. When they're trying to put it from the peel into the oven, they always mess it up. Have you had any tried anything like that?
22:36 Speaker 03 That's a great question. That's a great question. I so I do have people tagging me every single day, and I always post about other people's pizza pizza making creations. But I haven't tried the fail thing, which could be which could be really funny, because I I failed a lot, you know, it's hard to get it going. My goal is to make it so it's not so hard, but it's definitely it's definitely a learning curve. So that's a good idea.
22:56 Speaker 02 I think that's good because I quit after. I made one.
23:01 Speaker 00 You quit? Why'd you quit?
23:03 Speaker 02 Oh, it was just such a disaster. I'm like, I'm not a pizza maker. Stick to salad dressing.
23:08 Speaker 00 No, you didn't put enough flour on the peel.
23:10 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:11 Speaker 00 That's why. You gotta, you gotta work fast. Get rid of that sauce. You gotta be fast.
23:15 Speaker 03 You have to follow dough guy.
23:16 Speaker 02 I was very good at making it pretty. I was, but oh.
23:21 Speaker 00 Sam, it's, is it true, isn't it true? You've got it while you're making the pizza, you gotta shake the peel a little bit every once in a while to make sure it's still loose. You know, you're gonna put the sauce on, shake it a little bit. Okay, it's moving. Put the cheese on, put the whatever you want on.
23:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:35 Speaker 00 And shake it around. And if it's not, and then you can still save it by pulling up the dough and blowing a little bit of flour under it.
23:42 Speaker 03 Yeah, you know, you know. Um, yeah. So semolina flour is gonna be your best friend. Um, and yeah, shaking it, make sure you're not using too much sauce, all that stuff.
23:51 Speaker 00 So Stacy, do you think, I mean, you, you, you said this, that he's gotta really be the guy, right? He's got, he's gotta grind. But at what point can he, can he say, all right, now I need, I need somebody else to run stuff or operations while I focus on building out this brand?
24:09 Speaker 02 Like, can you hire some other people to do all the other stuff?
24:14 Speaker 03 Yeah.
24:14 Speaker 02 Like let, you know, bring in others to help with the other tasks so that you can stay on the internet. And you have to, because
24:23 Speaker 03 For sure.
24:23 Speaker 02 You need to be on it now while you're hot.
24:27 Speaker 03 Wow, thank you.
24:28 Speaker 02 And I love that you are hitting the men.
24:31 Speaker 03 Yeah.
24:32 Speaker 02 I mean, and there's so much, uh, like, what else do men cook?
24:38 Speaker 00 Meat. Grilling meat.
24:40 Speaker 03 Smoking meat.
24:41 Speaker 02 Right. You go on the grill and maybe you're, you know, maybe it's a spatula. Maybe it's a, I don't know.
24:47 Speaker 00 But you know, guys, I mean, again, I hate to hate these categories, but, but they, they are true sometimes. And guys, you see a lot of guys will wanna bake with like cast iron. Right? Like when they're camping and make like a cobbler or, you know, some kind of like cookie thing in a cast iron pan.
25:06 Speaker 02 That's a way better idea.
25:07 Speaker 00 You like that?
25:08 Speaker 02 Yeah.
25:09 Speaker 00 A cookie, a cookie thing in a cast iron pan?
25:12 Speaker 02 Cause that's special. Like, you know, that's like, ooh, I wanna try that.
25:15 Speaker 00 Look at that man making brownies in a cast iron pan.
25:19 Speaker 02 That's a real man.
25:21 Speaker 03 Yeah, no, that's a, that's a great idea. Yeah, that outdoor space is, is huge.
25:26 Speaker 00 And, and look at Sam, right, look at him, Stacy, he's the, he is the man. He's got the cool mustache, he's a handsome, handsome guy. I mean, right? Like, he's the guy. Cast iron brownies, Sam.
25:39 Speaker 03 Okay, I mean, I think I might be going into the brownie space. Who knows?
25:43 Speaker 02 But you know what? But you, you have that making something delicious while keeping it simple.
25:51 Speaker 03 Exactly. Yep.
25:53 Speaker 02 Right? If you can think of things that are unique to the male population and that you're going to make it easy, something that's difficult, you're going to make it easy. Like you, just speaking to you now, I'm like, okay, I'm going to try to make a pizza again. I'm going to get myself a steel because my oven doesn't get hot enough.
26:10 Speaker 03 There you go.
26:11 Speaker 02 Or, you know, I, it's going to retain the heat. Who knew? Maybe that's why my, maybe it was my pan.
26:16 Speaker 03 I think it was.
26:17 Speaker 02 Maybe it wasn't me.
26:18 Speaker 00 And, and, yeah, and Stacy, you know how you're going to figure that out? How to figure out how to do this right?
26:23 Speaker 02 I'm going to go to your house and you're going to show me.
26:25 Speaker 00 No, you're going to go to Sam's Instagram and you're going to see all the videos there, all the how to's.
26:31 Speaker 02 I'm going to Sam's and then I'm going to, yeah, and I'm going to watch all those videos. I'm going to get myself a, a steel square. And I'm going to make it for my kids.
26:43 Speaker 00 I'm telling you what, forget about Naples, forget about Sicily, forget about even the Roman style pizza. It's the Salt Lake City style. It's all, it's all about, all about the Utah pizza. It's awesome. I love this story. Sam, uh, thanks for calling in. The brand's called Dough Guy, Sam Cagle. Good luck and we'll, we'll keep tabs on you, man. Thank you.
27:05 Speaker 03 Thanks for having me on.
27:07 Speaker 00 Stay with us because after the break, we'll talk to another founder working to take their business to the next level. That's after the break. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to the Advice Line right here on How I Built This Lab.
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31:01 Speaker 00 All right, let's bring in our next caller. Welcome to the advice line you're on with Stacy Madison, founder of Stacy's Pita Chips. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a line about your business, please.
31:10 Speaker 04 Hi, Guy. Hi, Stacy. My name's Alex Hildebrandt, and I live in Boston. But I'm currently in New York City, where I spend a lot of time for my business. And I'm a co-founder of Suyo Pisco. Suyo is a spirits company, and we're introducing the world to single-origin Pisco, which is the national spirit of Peru. And Pisco also happens to be the only spirit in the world that by law is made with one ingredient.
31:34 Speaker 00 Which is grapes presumably.
31:36 Speaker 04 That's right, which is grapes.
31:38 Speaker 00 Alex, thanks for calling in and thanks for asking us hopefully to help you out. Tell me a little bit about about how you started this business. I mean, I, you know, I think most people, a lot of people know Pisco Sour, right? Tell me about how you got into making and selling Pisco.
31:55 Speaker 04 I'm from Peru, which is what really inspired me to do something really to reconnect with my home country as a Peruvian who spent most of his life in the United States. I always felt like I wanted to do something that reconnected me. And I don't come from the Pisco space. I don't come from a family of producers or anything like that. But one of my best friends and now co-founder is a Peruvian. And we had been brainstorming ideas for a really long period of time. And we decided that we both shared this passion about doing something that reconnected us with our roots. And so it hit us right in the head one time. We were we were back home in Miraflores in Lima, Peru, and we were drinking a Pisco cocktail. And we kind of looked at each other and we were wondering, wait, what do you know about Pisco?
32:38 Speaker 04 And we explored and we decided to launch a Pisco brand.
32:42 Speaker 00 Okay, so first of all, I'm assuming like tequila or other certain other spirits, it has to be made in Peru to be called Pisco.
32:50 Speaker 04 That's exactly right.
32:51 Speaker 00 So you can't just distill grapes in California and call it Pisco.
32:58 Speaker 04 Correct, so much like a tequila or a champagne, it has denomination of origin. So that means it has to come from a very specific place in Peru and be produced a very specific type of way, which I think for the most part is a good thing because that ensures that we have this the spirit that only has one ingredient at the end of the day, which is very, very cool and unique.
33:19 Speaker 00 When did you launch the brand, Suyo?
33:22 Speaker 04 We we launched the brand in 2020 after having started the project in 2019. Of course, COVID came around and we imported our first pallet into the United States in late 2021 and started selling it in early 2022.
33:36 Speaker 00 Where are you selling it right now?
33:38 Speaker 04 We're very focused geographically, mostly between New York and Boston and then between San Francisco and LA. That's about the majority of our California sales and that's kind of at the request of our distributor.
33:49 Speaker 00 And again, we should mention with Spears tricky because you got to go state by state. Every state has different regulations. So you got to start with one state and then grow from there. What is the, in terms of like your sales, where does mostly from restaurants and bars, mostly from liquor stores, where are you seeing sales?
34:08 Speaker 04 Great question. So roughly 80% of our sales this year to date have been in bars and restaurants. Roughly 20% will be liquor stores, which is kind of in line with what we expected when we launched the brand because when you're introducing someone to something new, I think it's oftentimes more approachable to purchase a cocktail at a more approachable price point than going into a liquor store and buying a bottle of something that's, you know, tends to be a little bit more premium priced and you may not know what to do with it. So it's kind of in line with our expectations.
34:38 Speaker 00 And give us a sense, Alex, of what kind of revenue you expect to do this year. Do you expect to break 300,000, 400,000?
34:46 Speaker 04 Yeah, we think we'll do a little bit over 400,000 this year.
34:49 Speaker 00 Okay. And before we dive in further, tell us what your question is, what question you brought for us.
34:55 Speaker 04 Yeah, so I'm sort of facing a consumer behavior dilemma. If we take, for instance, being at a bar or liquor store, consumers tend to first decide what kind of alcohol to drink. For example,
35:09 Speaker 00 Gin, vodka, yeah.
35:12 Speaker 04 Yeah, or I feel like having a vodka soda and or vodka, I feel like having a vodka soda. Today I'm going to have Tito's, which is the brand. But on the other hand, sometimes consumers also just order a brand without knowing or even caring what kind of alcohol category it is. One example is Hennessy, which is often thought of as its own thing, but it's a cognac, which is also a denomination of grape controlled spirit.
35:38 Speaker 00 Right, it's a grape spirit.
35:40 Speaker 04 That's right. So here I am building a brand that's in a category that's relatively unknown. And I'm wondering if you, Stacy, or Guy could offer any advice on how to prioritize my efforts in educating consumers about Pisco while also building my brand's awareness, which is Suyo.
36:00 Speaker 00 Interesting, because I can't think of a single Pisco brand, right? I can think of vodka brands or gin brands, but I cannot think of a Pisco brand, which to me seems like a great opportunity. Before we, I weigh in, I want to bring in Stacy Madison. Stacy, a lot to think about here. Alex has his Pisco brand. I'm sure you've had Pisco sours in Miami, because there's some awesome Peruvian restaurants down there. What do you think? What, I mean, brand or category or what?
36:31 Speaker 02 Okay. Well, first, I went last night and had a Pisco sour. I asked the bartender, you know, can I see your Pisco? Like, what kind of Pisco are you pouring here? Because I wanted to hear what he, did he know anything about it, you know, things like that. The question is, is there like a Suyo sour?
36:54 Speaker 04 Great question. We actually tend to lean away from the Pisco sour, which could be another question to phrase back at you. The Pisco sour is what everybody intuitively orders, because that's really all they know. But our experience has been that the Pisco sour tends to be a little less approachable in that it has an egg white in it, and it's kind of complicated to make at home. So we've been looking for something that can be made at home, has very few ingredients, is very simple. So what we push is the Pisco Punch, which I think maybe to your point, doesn't have our name in it. And maybe we should find a way to incorporate our name into it. But it is a traditional cocktail that we
37:34 Speaker 02 What's in the Pisco Punch?
37:35 Speaker 00 Yeah.
37:36 Speaker 04 The the Pisco Punch traditionally is really just three ingredients and because we love simplicity, this has made a lot of sense for us. It's going to be Pisco, of course, pineapple juice and lime juice. And that's all you need. If you know how to make a margarita, you can make a Pisco Punch. It's the way we've been approaching it. You just need those three ingredients.
37:53 Speaker 00 Got it. Okay, cool.
37:55 Speaker 02 Got it, yep. Other than a Pisco Sour, what else is Pisco used for?
38:03 Speaker 04 There are a lot of options, which is a double edged sword. There's so many different directions we can go, but how do you keep it simple and try to find that one thing that that really, really takes off? So we play a lot with the martini, swap in Pisco for the vodka or the gin, because we have two different expressions that have similar profiles to both vodka and gin respectively. You can do other easy highballs like Pisco tonic, which is a super Peruvian drink as well, because tonic comes from Quinine, which is originally from Peru. So it's a fun storytelling opportunity for us that that we use. And then there's some others that are more traditional in Peru. For instance, if you go to a house party or you go to a family gathering, a celebration, just about everybody's going to be drinking what's called a chilcano, which is just Pisco
38:47 Speaker 04 and ginger ale and you you put a dash of lime on top. That is super simple. It's much like a mule, if you've had a mule before. Most people enjoy that if you drink.
38:58 Speaker 02 You have to bring your name into it.
39:01 Speaker 00 I agree. I agree 100%. Yeah.
39:03 Speaker 02 I mean, I mean, if it were me and you're selling to all these bars, take, you know, 10 free drink cards, you know, work it out with the bar. And you have a whole underground crew of ambassadors to go into the bar and people do this, it's a free drink, to go in and to order a Suya tonic and have the people next to that person go, it's Suya tonic, like, what's that? Oh, it's made with Pisco and, you know, the Pisco, Suya Pisco and buy them a drink.
39:39 Speaker 00 I completely agree.
39:40 Speaker 02 And that's your underground network.
39:42 Speaker 00 I completely agree, Stacy, because, look, consumers, they rarely champion a category unless there's a brand to rally behind, right? So like, you think of like Aperol, like Aperol, there are other things that are like Aperol, but you order an Aperol spritz. Patron is a great example in tequila, right? You have an opportunity to make Suyo.
40:04 Speaker 00 synonymous with Pisco to US consumers because there isn't anything like that. There is no Patron for Pisco. Like, the brand is the tip of the spear here, right? Like, you're leading with the story of Suyou and what it does. I mean, the other thing is, Peruvian food is some of the greatest food in the world. Some of the greatest restaurants in the world are in Lima. So, people who know about food know about Peruvian food, but like, I didn't know that Pisco had to have a single ingredient, you know, single origin. I didn't know that. And maybe, on the bottle, you know, it says something like, you know, Peru's best-kept secret or something like that. I would really lean into talking to bartenders about making Suyou drinks.
40:48 Speaker 00 As Stacy said, Suyou tonics, Suyou and orange juice, but then also the punch, Suyou punch. And really just start to build on the brand and a mixer, rather than Pisco and a mixer. Suyou sours, it can be a Pisco sour.
41:07 Speaker 02 Suyotini.
41:08 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, I think that's really what you, the opportunity is to make your brand synonymous with Pisco. It's just a category that is, to me, it seems wide open. I mean, tequila, everybody's in tequila, you know, gin, vodka, but not that many Pisco brands in, known in the US, if any.
41:26 Speaker 02 None. None, and the market is wide open. Again, it was the exact same thing with the pita chips. Nobody knew what a pita chip was.
41:35 Speaker 00 Which is crazy.
41:36 Speaker 04 Mr. Stacy, I thought you were such a perfect person to ask this question, and I think, I think you've answered the question here, but, you know, it's like, we go, we get asked to come to bars and do what they call staff trainings or staff educations, and we 100% of the time start with, let me talk to you quickly about what Pisco is, to set the basis, and then, now let me talk to you about Suyou. What I'm hearing from you two is maybe it makes sense to flip the script, and we talk, we lead with Suyou, and then, oh, by the way, this is a Pisco, let me tell you a couple of things about what that means.
42:07 Speaker 02 So, how much, can I ask, how much does the bar pay for a bottle?
42:10 Speaker 04 Yeah, of course. So, for our core line, which are the Quebranta in Italia that you see in there, they pay, depending on the tier that they get, because it changes depending on how many you buy, it's between, between about $30 a bottle and about $33 a bottle, depending on the market.
42:27 Speaker 02 Okay.
42:28 Speaker 04 So it ends up at retail roughly $45 is the SRP that we aim for.
42:34 Speaker 00 Yeah.
42:34 Speaker 02 Yeah, I'm just trying to get a handle on feel for both your sales and for what kind of drink you're creating. Because if you're creating, I have to say, I'm not a big fan of the punch thing. I think of something red.
42:50 Speaker 04 Okay.
42:51 Speaker 00 Oh, you want a red punch, not a yellow punch.
42:53 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think of something red and I think of something that's not as expensive. And I think that, you know, you should keep it equivalent to the more expensive cocktails. It sounds like jungle juice.
43:08 Speaker 04 It doesn't sound as elevated to you.
43:10 Speaker 00 Well, but it can, but it can. I mean, have you had milk punch at some of these high-end bars, Stacy?
43:16 Speaker 02 But such the category is so
43:19 Speaker 00 Yeah.
43:20 Speaker 02 small, like the general public, I think, you know, in order to get that extra buck.
43:25 Speaker 00 So Alex, I think, I mean, here, I think there's, I think there's a huge opportunity here. It's all about Suyyo. It's not about Pisco. Pisco comes next. People discover Pisco through Suyyo. That's the direction you should take. The brand is called Suyyo Pisco. Alex Hillbrand, good luck, man. Thanks for calling.
43:41 Speaker 04 Thanks so much, Guy. Thanks, Stacy. It was great chatting with you both.
43:44 Speaker 00 Thank you. Yeah, I tell you what, I love Pisco. I mean, I don't order them often, but every time, every once in a while, I'm like, oh, Pisco sour, that sounds great. I want that egg white and but yeah.
43:55 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's like you're eating, it's like you're drinking an egg white. I mean, how much healthier can it be?
43:58 Speaker 00 Delicious. Spirits is a tricky category because there are so many spirits brands, but certain kind of wormholes in that world, right? Like Pisco's or other kinds of spirits have an opportunity. And I would also think about partnering with maybe some interesting Peruvian chefs because that, I mean, I think the number one restaurant in the world for a while was in Lima. So there you go.
44:24 Speaker 02 I think he's on to something. He could really, it could really take off.
44:29 Speaker 00 We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question and another round of advice. I'm Guy Raz. Stick around. You're listening to the advice line on how I built this lab.
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45:24 Speaker 00 Let's bring in our final caller. Welcome to the Vice Line. You are on with Stacy Madison, founder of Stacy's Pita Chips. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and one line about your business, please.
45:34 Speaker 06 I'm Stephanie Stuckey. I am with Stuckey's. I'm calling from Rens, Georgia, and we make pecan snacks and candies.
45:41 Speaker 00 Awesome. Stephanie, welcome to the show. Stuckey's, you make pecan candy. So like, just give me kind of a sense of what kind of candy do you sell?
45:50 Speaker 06 We're best known for the pecan log roll, which is my grandmother's recipe. We've actually been making it since 1937.
45:58 Speaker 00 Wow.
45:59 Speaker 06 Yeah, I call ourselves an 88-year-old startup.
46:02 Speaker 00 Yeah.
46:03 Speaker 06 Yeah, and we also make pralines and gophers. It's caramel, pecans, and chocolate. We do dark chocolate pecans, white chocolate pecans, and then we have a whole line of flavored pecans, everything from roasted and salted to honey-roasted, kettle-glazed, bourbon.
46:26 Speaker 00 I love it.
46:26 Speaker 06 We're crazy about pecans.
46:27 Speaker 00 Wow. This is an old, this is an old new brand, right?
46:31 Speaker 06 Right.
46:32 Speaker 00 This is not, okay, tell me, tell me what the, what is the story of Stuckey's?
46:36 Speaker 06 It's a crazy journey. So I am an attorney. I spent my entire life doing different things. I was a public defender, a state representative, and head of sustainability for the city of Atlanta. And five years ago, I got a phone call that the company that my grandfather had founded and sold was for sale.
46:55 Speaker 00 And it's your last name, Stucky?
46:57 Speaker 06 It's my last name.
46:58 Speaker 00 Yeah.
46:58 Speaker 06 Yeah, so he started it as a roadside pecan stand.
47:02 Speaker 00 When did he start it?
47:03 Speaker 06 1937.
47:04 Speaker 00 Wow, okay.
47:06 Speaker 06 Yeah, people loved the, he made snacks and candies and people said, oh, this is great, but where's the restroom, where's, where can I get gas? So he built a gas station that sold snacks, candies, kitsch-y fun souvenirs, clean restrooms, and he just built it from there. At its peak, Stucky's had 370 stores in 40 states.
47:26 Speaker 00 Wow.
47:26 Speaker 06 He had a candy company, a trucking company, a billboard company. We were synonymous with road tripping in America.
47:33 Speaker 00 Wow, you were the, the, what's it called, the Buckies or the Wawas of that time?
47:40 Speaker 06 Yeah, before there was TA Loves or Buckies, there was Stucky's. We were the first roadside retail chain.
47:46 Speaker 00 Wow, and so what happened to it? Did he sell it, like, when did he sell it?
47:52 Speaker 06 He sold it when I was a little girl.
47:54 Speaker 00 Okay.
47:54 Speaker 06 So 1964 is when he sold it, but he remained involved in control, controlling it until the mid 70s.
48:01 Speaker 02 I totally remember Stucky's.
48:03 Speaker 06 Yeah.
48:04 Speaker 02 I mean, I think I was 13. We did a trip across country and we would always stop at a Stucky's.
48:09 Speaker 00 So, all right, so you, so your grandfather starts, he sells it?
48:13 Speaker 06 Yes.
48:13 Speaker 00 And, and how does it end up back in your hands?
48:16 Speaker 06 I got a phone call that the company was for sale. It was six figures in the red. They, the owners at the time were looking to sell.
48:24 Speaker 00 How many gas stations did they have?
48:25 Speaker 06 They, there were, there are about a dozen original stores still around. We do not own or operate them. And they were losing money. It was a hot mess.
48:35 Speaker 00 So the brand comes up for sale. I, I mean, how, how much did they want? Or how much were they willing to take?
48:41 Speaker 06 I paid $500,000. It was my, it was my life savings.
48:45 Speaker 00 So you bought the brand back?
48:47 Speaker 06 Yes.
48:47 Speaker 00 With the idea to revive the, this roadside stand or to do something different?
48:52 Speaker 06 And then I realized it wasn't working and we were sinking further into debt. So I made a pivot after about a year. And I got some business partners and we decided to reinvent the brand just the way it started as a pecan snack and candy company. And we bought a manufacturing facility.
49:11 Speaker 00 Wow.
49:12 Speaker 06 Everything was outsourced and the pecans came from Mexico and pecans are the only snack nut native to this country. They are absolutely delicious.
49:21 Speaker 00 They are.
49:22 Speaker 06 Georgia, Georgia grows more pecans than anywhere else in the world.
49:25 Speaker 00 I know. Why is it called the Peach State?
49:26 Speaker 06 Yeah.
49:27 Speaker 00 It should be the Pecan State. Is it pecans or pecans?
49:29 Speaker 06 What do you say?
49:31 Speaker 00 I say pecans, but I thought in Georgia you say pecans.
49:34 Speaker 06 Yeah, the customer's always right.
49:35 Speaker 00 Yeah, you're supposed to say pecans in Georgia. So wait.
49:39 Speaker 06 Just say Stuckey's. That's what I want. I want to be synonymous with pecans.
49:43 Speaker 00 And before I get to your question, give me a sense of where, like, how is the business doing now as a candy business?
49:51 Speaker 06 It's doing well. We're in about 4,000 doors nationwide. We do very well in farming hardware. We're in some C-stores, some grocery like Food Lion and Ingles. We just launched in select Walmart and Sam's Club. And we have 65 employees. We're the largest employer in Ren's, Georgia. Sales have grown from 2 to 10 million.
50:13 Speaker 00 10 million?
50:14 Speaker 06 Yeah, but.
50:16 Speaker 00 Amazing.
50:16 Speaker 06 It's still a challenge, right? It's still, so that's my question. So Stuckey's was once known as this roadside stand, but today we're reinventing ourselves as a pecan snack and candy company in a market that is dominated by big budget brands backing pistachios, cashews, almonds, peanuts. How do we position Stuckey's and pecans as a distinctive must-have choice for new generation of consumers who didn't grow up like Stacy, stopping at Stuckey's? We got to introduce ourselves. We're getting on shelves. How do we move off the shelf?
50:52 Speaker 00 All right, all right, good question. Stacy, I want to bring you in. You obviously know this brand from when you were a kid, but now it's not a gas station roadside stop. It's a, it's pecan logs and rolls and pecans.
51:04 Speaker 02 It sounds delicious.
51:05 Speaker 00 And, you know, they're doing pretty well. Eleven, $10 million in sales, probably still not, right? You guys made some investments in manufacturing equipment and you've got a lot of, you've got a lot of employees, so you probably still have some debt and you still are
51:16 Speaker 06 Yes, we do.
51:17 Speaker 00 Probably not able to pay yourself a whole lot, because people here, $10 million, are thinking, "You're rolling in pecan dough."
51:23 Speaker 06 Yeah, they do.
51:24 Speaker 00 No, you're not, not, right?
51:25 Speaker 06 No, it's very, manufacturing is very capital intensive. We pay our, our employees very well. We, that was one of the most important things we did. We bought an existing facility and we gave everyone a pay raise and we brought in insurance. And so all of that costs money. It's worth it.
51:42 Speaker 00 Yep, yep. All right. So let's get to, Stacy, I want to bring you in before we answer Stephanie's question. Maybe you've got some questions for her?
51:50 Speaker 02 Yeah, I definitely do. Well, first of all, you're talking to somebody that does not eat peanuts.
51:54 Speaker 00 Oh.
51:55 Speaker 02 I like pecans. I, I just, I love them, you know, and that's my first choice. Yeah, it's my first choice of not.
52:05 Speaker 06 I love it.
52:06 Speaker 02 I have a question. Like, you seem to have a lot of SKUs.
52:08 Speaker 06 Yes.
52:09 Speaker 02 Right?
52:10 Speaker 00 Just to, just to clarify, there's like dark chocolate, white chocolate pecan, cinnamon pecans, there's the bourbon pecans. I mean, there's a lot of stuff here, is what you're saying.
52:19 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's a lot to manage.
52:20 Speaker 06 We do have a core line for, for mass distribution. So we have, we call them the seven core.
52:26 Speaker 02 Okay. So what area of the store, where would I find you? And where would I find it? Like, if you have all these things that are, like, it seems like they're very different to have a pecan roll than a bag of pecans or a chocolate or, like, what section of the store are you targeting?
52:44 Speaker 06 The nut aisle, snack nut aisle, and then also the candy aisle. And ideally, like, we're in a fair amount of convenience stores, a lot of independent convenience stores. So you might find a center store. And in a perfect world, we're in the impulse section, right at the register, right?
53:01 Speaker 02 What's your top seller?
53:02 Speaker 06 The pecan log roll.
53:03 Speaker 00 The log roll's the number one seller.
53:05 Speaker 06 It's been delivering for us since my grandmother first whipped it up in her country kitchen.
53:10 Speaker 02 Who's buying them?
53:12 Speaker 06 Probably mostly 50-ish and up. Yeah. I mean, it's people who recognize the brand.
53:19 Speaker 02 And that's the exact direction? I'm going, and it may not be what you want to hear.
53:27 Speaker 06 Yeah, I hear you.
53:28 Speaker 02 But I'll tell you, I would flood the current older population. Like, you have a population out there who knows and recognizes your brand.
53:40 Speaker 06 Yeah.
53:41 Speaker 02 So I would start with hitting all the Stucky people. And, you know, all the, that age range, the over 50.
53:48 Speaker 06 Yeah. Grow the corn.
53:49 Speaker 02 It's not as big, it's not, yeah, for your core population. And then, once you've kind of tapped out that market, then I would, you know, expand from there.
54:00 Speaker 00 Yeah.
54:01 Speaker 02 What's the shelf life of this loaf?
54:03 Speaker 06 It's seven months, and then the, the bagged pecans are 12 months.
54:08 Speaker 00 Hmm. Stacy, this, your advice is interesting, right? Because the question is, how do we make this more appealing to younger consumers? And most of us are like, of course, it's a no-brainer. You want younger consumers because they're going to grow up with this and they, they, they have disposable cash. But actually, older consumers are often ignored at our peril, right? It's like, you want to, almost want to double down on the people who know this and are buying it. I, I think you can kind of split the difference here a little bit, right? Because you've got a heritage brand, but you do want to appeal to younger consumers. You do want people to see this. And so there are a number of things you could try. I mean, I think one of the, the questions is, your, your branding really leans into nostalgia, right? It looks like the 40s or the 50s.
54:52 Speaker 00 It's, and, and the Stuckey's logo is, is like that. And I wonder if you can keep the integrity of the Stuckey's logo, but maybe think about a more modern rebrand overall for the brand. But I actually think at the end of the day, people are focused on their own interests and, and people are focused on, a lot of people are focused on protein. And pecans are a protein, it's a plant-based protein source. I mean, I, I, again, I would double down on what's selling best. I would double down on the rules and really try and put all your, any marketing dollars, any promotional dollars, any social media dollars into the bar, into the log. But I would also think about... Maybe trying a different approach in parallel, which is, you know,
55:37 Speaker 00 America's oldest natural snack since, you know, 1776 or something.
55:42 Speaker 02 I was thinking the same thing.
55:44 Speaker 00 Americans first, America's first protein bar.
55:47 Speaker 02 The original, I mean.
55:49 Speaker 00 Delivering protein, delivering plant-based protein since, you know, since whatever.
55:54 Speaker 02 Yeah. I think you could say you're the original. I mean.
55:58 Speaker 00 Yeah, the OG protein.
55:59 Speaker 02 We were doing protein before anybody, yeah, or something. Yeah.
56:02 Speaker 00 The other question I have is, you know, we, there's a brand called nuts.com, which it was an amazing brand and we're featuring that brand on our show. They, they sell like 3,000 different things, right? And so the other question is, Stuckey's, I, I know I was looking at your website. You do sell some almonds and some walnuts, but really this is a pecan brand.
56:23 Speaker 02 Yeah.
56:24 Speaker 00 And so down the road is, is Stuckey's bigger? Is it a bigger candy confectionery nostalgic brand? Can you, or if you're going to lean into pecans, is it worth trying things like pecan butter? I don't, I've never seen that anywhere.
56:40 Speaker 02 It's delicious.
56:41 Speaker 00 Pecan milk, pecan nut milk. I don't know anybody who makes pecan nut milk. I mean, it's, it's kind of pecan ice cream is obvious. Pecan coffee beans. But I think, I, I keep thinking about this brand and, and Stacey, you know this brand, David Bars. It's just blown up. It's a protein bar brand. It was started by the same guy who created RX Bars. Peter Rahal, who's been on our show and this brand is all about protein and he's leaned into it. And he did something really unusual in the last few months, which is they, they sell protein bars, but they started to sell frozen fish. You can go to grocery stores in New York and find David branded frozen cod. It looks like a David bar, but it's a literally a piece of frozen cod. They are not getting into the frozen cod business. This is a marketing tool.
57:26 Speaker 00 This is a way to, to say to people, look, you can eat this frozen cod and go prepared at home, or you can pretty much get the same amount of protein by just buying a David bar. And people are talking about that. It's all over the place. It's an incredibly smart marketing campaign. And if you try something weird like pecan nut milk, you know, who knows?
57:45 Speaker 06 We just have to get new equipment. Yeah, it's, we sell it in our, we have a candy outlet store. We don't make it, but it is, it is so yummy.
57:54 Speaker 00 I'm sure you just whizz it with some water and filter it.
57:57 Speaker 02 Yeah, I would, I would source that one out.
57:59 Speaker 06 Great. I have a question.
58:01 Speaker 00 Yeah, question.
58:01 Speaker 02 Yeah, go ahead.
58:02 Speaker 06 Yeah, so my question is, all right, along the lines of the protein bar, so someone suggested to me that this to me, is take our pecan log roll, which is a, it's a candy bar, and add protein powder to it. So it's like a protein, but it's got, it would have caramel coating and it has some sugar in it.
58:25 Speaker 02 How many grams of protein is in it without doing that?
58:28 Speaker 06 Good question. Let me see if I can, protein says two grams.
58:34 Speaker 00 All right, to start, I mean, I think you could try something like that. I think you probably, if you're trying to appeal to sort of a fitness crowd, I mean, they're going to want less sugar, or you pack it, you really sort of, it's more nut heavy and less caramelly, right? I mean, there are ways to, you know, to do this with reduced sugar. And it's worth trying. I mean, at the end of the day, you want people talking about this.
59:01 Speaker 06 Yeah.
59:02 Speaker 02 Am I allowed to disagree with you, Guy?
59:04 Speaker 00 Please. Go, please.
59:08 Speaker 02 I don't think a bar that's starting with two grams of protein is, I mean, she has a product that's selling already.
59:16 Speaker 00 Yeah.
59:16 Speaker 02 And, you know, she went from two to 10 million in four years. I think that, you know, she's kind of found something that works. And the product, people like it. People must like it if she, if you're selling that much of it. I would not change your recipe one bit. People used to come to us and say, can you make a gluten-free pita chip?
59:38 Speaker 06 Yeah.
59:39 Speaker 02 How are we going to make this gluten-free? It's bread.
59:42 Speaker 00 You could do rice flour pitas. You could, you could do, but I, I hear you. There was an integrity in Stacy's pita chips that you didn't want to mess with. And, you know, if people wanted gluten-free brand, they can start their own brand.
59:53 Speaker 06 It's authenticity, right? That's, that's what people want in a brand.
59:58 Speaker 02 Yeah. I would lean into the history. I would. Yeah, definitely try to do some kind of crossover since you're in two sections of the store.
1:00:08 Speaker 06 Yes.
1:00:08 Speaker 02 That's gonna be crazy expensive in the long run. So, and you're doing your own manufacturing, so you have to be very careful on how many SKUs you're putting out there. So many people are looking for a recipe that works, that's gonna sell, and you have that.
1:00:25 Speaker 06 Got it.
1:00:26 Speaker 02 Sorry, Guy.
1:00:27 Speaker 00 I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm, yeah, I mean, I'm-
1:00:30 Speaker 02 Don't go into the perfect part.
1:00:32 Speaker 00 I'm with you. I think you should have something weird. I think you should think about the codfish idea with David Barse and have something weird. And I think it would be worth just thinking about some kind of refresh, keeping the integrity of the, of that logo, the Stuckey's logo. You know, if you're doing good business with people over 50, great, but I think it would, you, you could still retain those people, but bring some new people in. Go ahead, Stacy.
1:00:59 Speaker 02 You know what is really a great thing to have? You know, you have that pecan coating for the fish.
1:01:07 Speaker 00 The pecan coated fish?
1:01:09 Speaker 02 Right.
1:01:10 Speaker 00 Yes.
1:01:11 Speaker 02 So if you-
1:01:12 Speaker 06 Yes, you could do a pecan meal, which we make, by the way.
1:01:15 Speaker 02 If you have that pecan coating and you're sold-
1:01:17 Speaker 00 Crust, pecan crusted fish.
1:01:18 Speaker 02 And it's made with, it's made with Stuckey's pecan. It's gotta be good.
1:01:23 Speaker 06 There we go. Can you, can you hook me up, Guy, with, with-
1:01:26 Speaker 00 A fish maker?
1:01:27 Speaker 06 With that brand, so-
1:01:29 Speaker 00 There you go.
1:01:30 Speaker 06 But I agree with you both, right? Like, I think we need to make sure our base stays loyal and true and spends a lot of money.
1:01:38 Speaker 00 For sure, for sure.
1:01:39 Speaker 06 But we, we've gotta get a younger demographic if we're gonna, if we're gonna continue. And, and so maybe getting a little weird.
1:01:46 Speaker 00 Get a little weird.
1:01:47 Speaker 06 In a fun way that gets people talking.
1:01:49 Speaker 00 For sure.
1:01:50 Speaker 02 Yeah. And I would make sure that you're always the Stuckey's pecan.
1:01:53 Speaker 06 Yes.
1:01:54 Speaker 02 Get your name with your product. Stacy's Pita Chips.
1:01:57 Speaker 06 Yes.
1:01:58 Speaker 00 Stuckey's pecans. All right, Stuckey's is the brand. Stephanie Stuckey, thanks so much for calling in. Uh, good luck. Keep us posted.
1:02:04 Speaker 02 It's an honor to meet you. I, I'm a Stuckey, I was a Stuckey's fan.
1:02:07 Speaker 06 Thank you. It's been a pleasure.
1:02:09 Speaker 00 Thank you. Stacy, thanks so much for coming back on the show. It's great having you.
1:02:13 Speaker 02 It was great being here. Thank you, Guy.
1:02:15 Speaker 00 That's Stacy's Pita Chips founder, Stacy Madison. And by the way, if you haven't heard Stacy's original How I Built This episode, please go back and check it out. So many people tell me all the time, how, it's like one of their favorites of all time. And here is one of my favorite moments from that episode. Wait, why did he say that? Were you literally like hand cutting the pita bread?
1:02:38 Speaker 02 Yeah, Mark's right bicep was like three times the size of his left because he was literally using a knife to cut bread. He was just like, yeah, you'll never be able to bring this product to market on any kind of scale. So for us, that was a really hard blow.
1:02:57 Speaker 00 Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at guyraz.com. And if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business, the issues or questions you'd like help with, and hopefully we can help you with them. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice memo at [email protected] or call us at 1-800-433-1298 and leave a message there. And we'll put all this in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Rommel Wood with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei.
1:03:40 Speaker 00 It was edited by Andrea Bruce. Our audio engineer was Robert Rodriguez. Our production staff also includes Casey Herman, Alex Chung, Carrie Thompson, Catherine Seifer, Carla Estevez, Noor Gill, Sam Paulson, and Elaine Coats. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.
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