Advice Line with Fawn Weaver of Uncle Nearest Premium Whiskey

Former guest Fawn Weaver, founder of Uncle Nearest Whiskey, joins Guy for an “Advice Line” edition of HIBT Lab. Three early-stage entrepreneurs call in for advice on telling their brand story. In this episode, we’ll meet Kevin, the owner of a coffee trailer and roastery who grew up on a coffee farm in Honduras. Then Elisabeth, whose jewelry company aims to make a difference in the developing world. And finally, Joanne, a home baker looking to turn her love of pecan pie into a full-time business. If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode, leave us a one minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to [email protected] mailto:[email protected] or call 1-800-433-1298. And check out the origin story of Uncle Nearest Whiskey https://art19.com/shows/831bd173-0992-41b7-b1eb-112db904d947/episodes/13d9fc11-b0d3-422a-98eb-84cda6a120dd/embed, told by Fawn on the show in 2021. This episode was produced by Chris Maccini with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Neal Rauch. You can follow HIBT on X https://twitter.com/HowIBuiltThis & Instagram https://www.instagram.com/howibuiltthis, and email us at [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Guy Raz?

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• 5:18Guy Raz?

  Hello and welcome to How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. So on this show, as you know, we talk with founders behind some of the best-known brands in the world. And the thing is, a lot of founders come onto this show because they want to share their knowledge, their mistakes, their fumbles, their failures, and the lessons they learned along the way. So today, on How I Built This Lab, we're starting a new project, a kind of mentor's edition of the show. And on the lab for the next few months, we'll invite a former guest, someone who built an iconic brand, back onto the show to give advice to people like you. And by the way, if you are building something and you need advice, give us a call and you might be the next guest on the show.

• 6:03Guy Raz?

  Our number is 1-800-433-1298. And it's also in the podcast description if you missed it. Okay, let's go.

• 6:15Guy Raz?

  So today, our guest mentor is Fawn Weaver, the founder of one of the fastest growing whiskey brands in the world, Uncle Nearest. Fawn, welcome back to the show.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me, Guy.

• 6:27Guy Raz?

  So we first had you on the show in 2021 to tell us the incredible story behind your whiskey brand. It's actually a story of a guy named Nearest Green. He was a formerly enslaved man who actually taught Jack Daniel, yes, that Jack Daniel, how to distill Tennessee whiskey. You were so inspired by the story that with no distilling experience, you took a massive leap. You built a whiskey brand in his name and his honor. And so, Fawn, one of the reasons why we asked you to come on to be our first mentor is because aside from, of course, being a great whiskey maker, you are an awesome storyteller as well. And all the startup founders who are going to call in today, I think they need some help refining the story of their brand.

• 7:12Guy Raz?

  So, you know, in general, when you think about storytelling around a brand, where do you start?

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it has to come from the heart. A lot of times founders will go outside of themselves to build a story. And you can't replicate heart. If it hasn't really touched your own soul, you're not going to be able to make that resonate with other people. I don't care how many people you go to or how much money you spend. It really has to start from your own heart. So the storytelling, the art of storytelling for me is, is it touched your own soul and you're able to share it with other people in such a way that it touches theirs?

• 7:53Guy Raz?

  There's a word that I use, and I've written about this in my book, when thinking about story and it's a why. Why did I make this? Why does the world need to hear about it? Why does it add value to your life? You know, and those are questions, right? You have to answer when you're starting to think about the product, the brand that you're putting out into the world.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And why does it matter to anyone else?

• 8:16Guy Raz?

  Exactly.

• 8:17Speaker 01

  Because something can matter to you. And if you don't cause it to resonate with other people, it doesn't matter that it resonates with you. That's not going to help you with whatever it is that you're trying to sell or give, or it has to be something that you have connected to the heart, mind, soul, body of other people.

• 8:36Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Well, I think we've got some callers who are waiting. I'm excited to talk about the brands that they're building. And here's how this is going to work. We're going to take three calls from early-stage founders. We're going to get a little background on each of them, and then they'll ask a specific question about their business. So let's bring on our first caller, who is on the line. I think it's Kevin. Is Kevin there?

• 9:00Speaker 02

  Hello, guys. Hello, Ms. Fawn. How's it going today?

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Hi, Kevin.

• 9:03Guy Raz?

  Kevin, please introduce yourself. Tell us where you live, what your business is.

• 9:08Speaker 02

  Yes, hello. My name is Kevin Orrida. I'm the co-founder of Puente Coffee Co., a small coffee trailer here in southwest Austin. Puente actually means "bridge," and our goal is to be the bridge between the actual farmers and consumers. I actually grew up on a coffee farm in Honduras.

• 9:24Guy Raz?

  Oh, wow.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  And I have all these wonderful memories from the start of my life, being around a coffee farm, getting ready for market. I remember going and picking the cherries, extracting the beans from the cherries, drying the cherries, putting the sacks in the back of a pickup truck and driving these dirt roads. I mean, we lived in the mountains, in the western side of Honduras. So you went to this huge warehouse, and they bought your coffee. It was just like those, I don't know, that's the memories that I have as a kid, so.

• 9:56Guy Raz?

  I mean, Fawn, talk about a story.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  That's exactly what I was thinking as he was talking about it. You keep referencing cherries, and forgive me, I do enjoy coffee. My husband is a massive coffee connoisseur. But what do cherries have to do with coffee beans?

• 10:13Speaker 02

  So, coffee, the plant produces cherries. So there's two beans per cherry. The actual cherries are picked, ones are ripe enough, and usually it's when they're very red, like very ripe red. You have a machine, which is called a despurpuladora. You have the skin that kind of gets around to the back, and the actual beans come to the front. The beans themselves have this honey texture to it. So I keep saying cherries because the actual coffee beans are harvested or grown in an actual cherry.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 10:46Guy Raz?

  And yeah, and Fawn, it's so cool. If you go to a coffee farm, you just see these berries on these bushes. And basically, if you squeeze them, the beans pop out and they're, obviously, they're unroasted, they're green. But that's coffee and then you roast those and you have coffee.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Who knows this other than y'all? This is amazing.

• 11:04Guy Raz?

  Yeah. So just to clarify, so you actually sell brewed coffee and you roast coffee?

• 11:10Speaker 02

  Yes. So there's two parts of the actual business. So Puente is our customer facing. Right now, we have one coffee truck. We're in the process of building a second one. We have a small micro roaster, which is called A2A Coffee Co. And right now, we're actually working with importers to get the beans from them and we roast the actual beans.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  And so A2A, what exactly does that mean? Because I want to hear more of this story and I'm not getting that from the name.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  Absolutely. So A2A is the enzyme that allows your brain to taking the caffeine. So it's what facilitates the caffeine to enter your body. My business partner, Patrick, is a nerd about biology and he came up with the name. Like that's the acronym for the enzyme specifically and it wasn't taken. So I was like, hey, let's just get the name A2A and kind of go from there.

• 12:02Guy Raz?

  So I actually really like the name A2A. I think the story of the enzyme is really cool. But I wonder why, I mean, I'm looking at your website, Puente Coffee. Why not Puente Roasting too? Why is it just because you guys have two separate companies?

• 12:18Speaker 02

  Honestly, that's one of the things that we're actually in conversations at the moment to rebrand the actual roasting part.

• 12:24Guy Raz?

  So A2A is a roaster, Puente is the coffee, but they may merge them. Okay. Let's go to your question because it is about storytelling, of course. So Kevin, what's your question for Fawn?

• 12:35Speaker 02

  I have the hardest time in terms of storytelling. That is not my strength by any means. I know that we have a story and we're trying to build on it. But I just don't know the best way to say, okay, this is who we are, what we're trying to build. I mean, any type of guidance in terms of how to best tell our story and what our mission is.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  First of all, you are a great storyteller.

• 13:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  So whoever told you you're not a good storyteller, including yourself, if that's who told you that, you need to just go back to that person. Yes, you are a fantastic storyteller, so much so that I could do this for the next hour easily, just listening to you talk about the farmers and the farm and the cherries. So you are a fantastic storyteller. What I think you're probably saying is that you don't know how to articulate your story quickly.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  Right? And to be able to distill it down into bite-sized pieces. But here's the thing, you don't really have to do that. You can write out your entire story, literally every element in it, and then break it into sections. So for instance, when you hear me talking about the story of Nares Green in the press all the time, I'm usually talking about a particular section of the story. Because once you bring my story into it, my team member's story into it, our distillery into it, I've got 25 stories and no one has time for all of that, right? So the question is, is who is the audience that you're talking to at any given moment? And what is the section of your story that relates to that?

• 14:14Speaker 01

  So if you can really hone in on learning each aspect of your story separately, yes, they're all intertwined, but the ability to give every section of your story a start, a middle, and an ending, so that you're touching people's hearts and minds at the beginning, in the middle, and at the end of every section.

• 14:36Guy Raz?

  I love that advice. I'm going to build on what Fon said and give you some practical suggestions. The story you just told us about being raised on a coffee farm in Honduras, none of that is on your website. None of that's on your coffee bags, I imagine. I mean, I would start by just... Putting a little letter, a love letter to your customers, starting with, "My name is Kevin. I grew up on a coffee farm in Honduras and I would watch as we harvested." Whatever story you want to tell, just a brief paragraph, paste that on the back of every coffee bag that you sell. Maybe you even print that on the cup of coffee that you serve to people, just three or four lines about you and your

• 15:18Guy Raz?

  connection to this world, because that is so powerful. So I would just start very simply by getting your story on your product.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  And I would add to what Guy is saying, the consumer, especially when you come to Gen Z and millennials, they love a give back. And you are giving back to those farmers simply by acknowledging who they are and putting a spotlight on them. So even if with every bag, you're spotlighting specific farmers, where it came from, you're actually giving people a face and a name, so that it's not just coffee beans that are coming in, it's the people who are actually taking the time and doing the hard work of picking these cherries and getting these coffee beans out. And so you tell this incredible story about you,

• 16:08Speaker 01

  but you also add a line or two about where that coffee is coming from and put faces and names with the product.

• 16:16Guy Raz?

  Kevin Arida, Puente Coffee, thanks so much. Good luck. Congrats. This is amazing. We're going to be following you.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Yes, we are.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  Thank you, guys. I sincerely appreciate it from the bottom of my heart. Thank you for everything, guys, you do. Thank you.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 16:28Guy Raz?

  Thank you. Fawn, I cannot believe he didn't think he was a good storyteller.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, I could listen to him for hours.

• 16:34Guy Raz?

  I mean, right?

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Oh, this is something that I would have so much fun picking up this story and just sharing it with the world, because it is so special.

• 16:42Guy Raz?

  So cool.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is.

• 16:44Guy Raz?

  Fawn, we're going to take a quick break. We're going to be back with another caller in just a few moments. Stay with us. You're listening to How I Built This Lab.

• 17:00Guy Raz?

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• 20:37Guy Raz?

  Hey, welcome back to How I Built This Lab. I'm here with Fawn Weaver, the founder of Uncle Nearest Whiskey. Fawn, we just talked with Kevin, whose coffee company has an awesome natural story, right? Because he grew up on a coffee farm in Honduras. And of course, your company had a natural story. But what about brands that don't have a natural story or a clear story? Like, where do they start?

• 21:01Speaker 01

  Every brand has a story, because every human has a story, and every brand is founded by a human.

• 21:05Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  And so if your brand itself does not have a story, there's a story behind why you are doing it. So if you look at Uncle Nearest, on any given day, there's between five and eight press hits around the world, major publications. And they're all telling different stories about the brand. And a lot of those stories are not the story of Nears Green and Jack Daniel. I'd venture to say that most of them aren't because I've now told the story of my upbringing, how I came to the story. I've now told the story of my all female leadership team that I've had from day one. I've now told the story of the importance of this not only being black owned, but remaining black owned and passing to the next generation so that we can begin to decrease the wealth gap.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  And I tell that story on a daily basis. So you also have to figure out what are elements of your story that are interesting to people?

• 22:00Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Well, Fawn, let's, let's get to our next caller. Um, I think it's Elizabeth on the line. Elizabeth, are you there?

• 22:08Speaker 03

  Yes, I'm here. Hi.

• 22:10Guy Raz?

  Hello, Elizabeth. Please introduce yourself, what you do. Yeah.

• 22:14Speaker 03

  My name is Elizabeth Frosty-Wright and I'm the founder of a jewelry brand called With Love Darling. And we produce in developing countries, creating income for vulnerable communities such as Maasai tribeswomen. And we plant a tree for each other.

• 22:28Guy Raz?

  Wow. So you do, so you're a jewelry maker. So let's, let's break this down, Elizabeth. You, and, and where are you based, by the way?

• 22:33Speaker 03

  I'm based in Monaco, but the business is in Denmark.

• 22:35Guy Raz?

  And you are Danish by?

• 22:37Speaker 03

  I'm Danish, yes.

• 22:38Guy Raz?

  Okay. So tell, first of all, tell us about the jewelry. What is it, what does it look like? What is it made from?

• 22:43Speaker 03

  So the jewelry is made from either recycled silver, that's gold plated, or brass, that's gold plated, depending on where we produce it. So we either produce it in Kenya or we produce it in India where we know it creates income for these communities.

• 22:57Guy Raz?

  Tell me how you started this because I've, from what I understand, you were actually in, in the military for like five years. You were a captain in the, in, in, in the Danish army?

• 23:09Speaker 03

  Yes, that's right. I was the captain of the Danish army and I was, I served in two NATO missions. Um, one in Bosnia and one in Kosovo. And it was my early twenties and it was a really impressionable type of my life. I mean, when you saw how really difficult life is, just two hours by plane from where I grew up. And that really inspired me to try and make a difference. Um, and that's why I started the jewelry brand, trying to tell a story about a better future, literally where the change you want, close to your heart, was my idea.

• 23:39Guy Raz?

  So how did you start it? How did you get it off the ground?

• 23:42Speaker 03

  You know, I've always been pretty creative, so I started drawing designs and then I I started researching where I could produce these pieces. I went to India and I visited a lot of workshops and found one that was really what I wanted. Sustainable, recycled, fair trade, really treated their people well. And I went to Kenya, I visited the Masai tribes, women who do these beautiful beads. And because we're wearing these things anyway, so why not just help a person for whom you can really make a difference? Like, I think the more jewelry we sell, the more people we help, the more people we empower. And so that's really my my mission.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm looking at your website. First thing I did when you began talking is to type in with love darling. And I love that you came up first. Because in a space where we are being inundated with paid ads and paid everything, right? And so if you're going to tell your story and get your story out there of a small brand, you don't want to have the hurdle of it being difficult for people to find you. And so you chose a name with love darling that you could pop up first. So kudos to you, absolutely brilliant. I love your story, I love your purpose. I love that when I'm on your website and I scroll down, there is a section of Kenyan women

• 25:04Speaker 01

  that have those beautiful beads that we have all seen in photographs. You put their faces on here and it says, these women made your bracelet. So now I am automatically drawn to your bracelet over another bracelet because you've just shown me the women who made my bracelet.

• 25:23Guy Raz?

  What's so cool about this is every single piece of jewelry has a story, right? And some of them are connected to the, I guess, the UN sustainability goals, right?

• 25:31Speaker 03

  Right, yes.

• 25:32Guy Raz?

  But now here, this is going to be, I'm going to push back a little bit. And Fawn, this is important because, as you know, most people, they might be interested in, or they might learn about Uncle Nearest because of the story, they might want to try it. But that's not enough, it has to be a good product. You have to make a good whiskey. So ultimately, people are going to buy Uncle Nearest, not even because they care all that that much about the story, but because they like the product, they like the brand. You have to, so you could, the story can bring them in, but you've got to make something that's going to keep them coming back. And so my question is, Ultimately, is the story about how these are made, who they benefit enough, right? Because I'm looking at the pieces and they're beautiful. They're great.

• 26:16Guy Raz?

  And I think that's what ultimately has to be emphasized. Does that make sense?

• 26:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  I agree with you. The first thing that I saw when I came on to this website was that she had 1,000-plus five-star reviews. Now, to Guy's point, I would figure out a way to weave that in as a part of the story. So one of the things you will see, if you see a billboard or an ad from Uncle Nearest anywhere, it's not actually telling the story. There's not enough time in any type of ad. What you will see is we're the most awarded bourbon in the world for 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023. Every year, we update those ads and all we do is add a new year on it every time we're the most awarded. So people know from the beginning, even before they learn of the story, that the product is one of the best bourbons in the world.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  That's where they start. And then they hear the story and go, whoa, whoa, whoa. So the story becomes the surprise element when it comes to Uncle Nearest. And that's intentional because to Guy's point, the story may get someone to buy something or to be interested in something, but it will not make them a consumer.

• 27:27Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Before we dive a little further into that, Elizabeth, you have a very specific question for Fawn.

• 27:34Speaker 03

  Yes. So Fawn, what I really want to do, I want to scale. We're direct-to-consumer because that way I can control the narrative. And I intend to scale through advertising and storytelling. And my issue is that there are so many great messages to communicate. Do I focus on the symbolism of clean water and peace? Do I focus on the tribe's women and their story? Do I focus on the fact that we plant a tree? That we're all recycled? I feel that there's too much and I need a really crystal-clear narrative where I can just retell that story again and again in all my ads and communications to my customers.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  Right. So the tree planting, I would not because there are, number one, a number of different types of companies that do tree planting. And it doesn't have a natural tie because your jewelry is not made of wood. And so there is not a natural tie to that story. When I am looking at your brand, if I am going to scale and I'm trying to reach beyond this sort of going directly to the consumers and go beyond that. I am looking at number one, what are people saying about your jewelry? What makes your jewelry special? But I am looking at not only what are they saying about the quality of it? Why are they buying it? What is the story behind it? Because you have something that a lot of of companies, a lot of founders don't have at this stage.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  You actually have other people to tell your story for you. Those are the best people to tell your stories. If you can let other people tell your story, that is more authentic and you are more likely to land a sale from another person who is a consumer than you are from you as the founder.

• 29:14Guy Raz?

  I I would also add that if you are looking to do something around some initiative, right? I'm assuming that I think that a lot of the jewelry is made by women in the developing world. I mean, maybe for every order, you know, you you work with a group that that focuses on maternal health in the developing world, right? Something that's more connected to to the women who are making this and probably to your customers who are probably, I would venture to guess, more women than than than others. So maybe something around that.

• 29:46Speaker 03

  So actually, I went and visited the women in Kenya. And one thing that that really shocked me was that they don't even have period products. So we start an initiative where every time you buy two bracelets from them, we donate these these products to them. So but but again, that's not to do with the jewelry, but it's something that helps the women.

• 30:02Guy Raz?

  And and also, it's it's also also part of the story, too. I I think that there is a great balance here because between design, a design focus and just beautiful things. And then the other side to it, the sort of bonus you get is a story that you can tell. I think I think that's a story of Uncle Nearest, Fawn, is that you get great whiskey, a great product. And then when you're sitting around with your friends, you're like, do you guys know about this brand? No, no, tell.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:29Guy Raz?

  And then you tell the story and everyone's like, oh, that's so cool. And they might move on, but still enjoy the whiskey.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  Absolutely, and you will have bartenders and and restaurateurs. They will share this whiskey with people and they'll share it just on the strength that it is a great. Bourbon. But then after the folks have tasted it, that's when they usually will will share the story and say, now, do you know the background behind what you're having? That's so fantastic. And so you have that depth to your story, Elizabeth, to be able to do that. The the customers who buy your products obviously love those products. So absolutely, the way that you scale is to figure out, how do you have the consumer tell that story?

• 31:12Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Elizabeth, thank you for calling in. Congrats on launching this business. And good luck. We're gonna be we're gonna be keeping tabs on you.

• 31:22Speaker 03

  Thank you so much. Thank you, Guy. Thank you, Fawn. Thank you, Elizabeth.

• 31:26Guy Raz?

  All right, Fawn, we're gonna take another quick break. We're gonna be right back with our third and final caller. Stay with us. You're listening to How I Built This Lab. Be back in a second.

• 31:41Speaker 04

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• 33:20Guy Raz?

  Hey, welcome back to How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. All right, we've got one more caller. And Fun, let's get right to it. I think Joanne Bang is on the line. Joanne, hello.

• 33:30Speaker 07

  Hi, Guy. Hi, Fun.

• 33:32Guy Raz?

  Joanne, tell us where you live and what your business is.

• 33:36Speaker 07

  I'm Joanne, and my small business is called Eat Joe Pie.

• 33:40Guy Raz?

  Eat Joe Pie?

• 33:42Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 33:42Guy Raz?

  Okay.

• 33:44Speaker 07

  And I'm based in Orange County.

• 33:47Guy Raz?

  Orange County, got it. Okay, so in Southern California. And what, tell me about the pie, like, what kind of pies do you make?

• 33:54Speaker 07

  My main is pecan pie, but throughout the years, people have been wanting pumpkin. And so those are the two pies that I make. And I am a seasonal business, so I only bake from like October to January-ish.

• 34:10Guy Raz?

  And where do you sell the pies?

• 34:12Speaker 07

  I sell them from my home. I take orders from Google Forms or Instagram direct messages. And I've been doing this since 2014. It'll be my 10th year baking.

• 34:25Guy Raz?

  So, all right, so right now, you're getting most of your orders through like Instagram and Google, just direct messages. So you don't have a, I don't think you have a website, right?

• 34:32Speaker 07

  No, I don't.

• 34:33Guy Raz?

  Okay, but everybody sort of who follows, and how many followers do you have on Instagram?

• 34:38Speaker 07

  I have 520, I think.

• 34:40Guy Raz?

  All right, that's, by the way, there's no shame there. We did a story about Myel Organics, one of the most incredible stories we've had on the show in the last seven years. I mean, Monique Rodriguez started out with like 200 followers on Instagram talking about hair care products, and she scaled it to a business that she sold for, you know, $400 or $500 million many years later. So, no shame in having, I mean, that's how you start. What were you doing? I mean, is this what you're doing full time now?

• 35:07Speaker 07

  No, I'm actually an art teacher. I work out in LAUSD.

• 35:12Guy Raz?

  In the LA public schools system?

• 35:13Speaker 07

  Yes. I'm actually doing a pivot, though, in my career. Yeah, I do want to pursue this full time now, this pie business. And I thought this opportunity was such a great timing, too, to get this started.

• 35:29Guy Raz?

  And what is it about? Your pies that I don't know that differentiates them from something that people can buy somewhere else.

• 35:38Speaker 07

  So a little bit of story time. This goes all the way back when I first tried my first pecan pie. It was when I was six and my dad, he comes through the door and he brings this pie. And he's like, do you want a slice? And I was like, no, thank you. I take a look at it. It looks pretty gross to me, like the custard. It's really, it looks like a booger almost. And then the pecans too. I was like, ew, what is that like cockroaches? And my dad was like, this is my favorite pie. And I feel like you should try it, Joanne. You might like it, you know? It's really sweet, has like a nutty flavor.

• 36:16Guy Raz?

  Booger cockroach pie.

• 36:20Speaker 07

  And so I was like, okay, reluctantly just loaded up the fork and put it in my mouth. I'm thinking, oh my gosh, what is this? This is delicious. Like the flakiness of the crust with the gooey custard and like the crisp pecans. I really enjoyed it. And so that's when I first had a pecan pie. Fast forward to 2014, I'm in college, I went to UCLA. And I went to a local pie shop and I look at the menu and I was like, oh, pecan pie. I used to love that. So I took it back to my dorm room, so excited to eat this. Take the first bite and I'm like, wait, is this the same pie that I've tried before?

• 37:02Speaker 07

  It was just so coily, sweet that I could not taste anything else. And so I decided to take it into my own hands and I was like, you know what? I want to recreate this pie. I first started with a standard recipe from like foodnetwork.com. And then from there, it was still too sweet for me and not enough of that like nutty flavor coming through. And so I took the recipe. I think it took about like, I don't know, seven to 10 pies. And then that year, 2014, I brought it to my family gathering for Thanksgiving. They were like, what the heck is this? Like, where did you buy this? And I was like, oh, I baked it. And then year after year, they were like, oh, can you bake me a pie? Can you bake me a pie? And I was like, okay, you know what?

• 37:47Speaker 07

  I'm going to start selling this as like a side hustle. And ever since 2014, I have about more or less 100 to 120 pies that I'm selling to people.

• 37:56Guy Raz?

  Per season.

• 37:57Speaker 07

  Per season.

• 37:58Guy Raz?

  And how much is each pie?

• 37:59Speaker 07

  A pecan pie right now is 45.

• 38:02Guy Raz?

  So this is a really good pecan pie. This is next level.

• 38:06Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 38:07Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 38:07Speaker 07

  And then my pumpkin is 25.

• 38:10Guy Raz?

  Okay, so I mean presumably, Fawn, Joanne needs to start thinking sort of broadly about how to structure this, right? Because now you can't build a business just on an Instagram, I mean, you can, but it's hard to build a business on just one Instagram profile and direct messages.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  It is. Your story reminds me a lot of, I was just with Tito Beverage, who has built easily in America, the most successful beverage maker of a single bottle, just with his one vodka flavored vodka. But he began by making flavored vodkas for all of his friends. And which is, the irony is, is now he refuses, under no circumstances will he make a flavored vodka. But how it began is he was making all these flavored vodkas. And so he became known as the flavor vodka guy that show up at all the parties. It's like, where's Tito? You know? So, so your story reminds me of that, which, which I love because you have a great story. You do have to figure out how to pull out the, the best gems of that story. And to also not

• 39:11Speaker 01

  make people think about boogers when you're about to tell them a story about your pie.

• 39:15Guy Raz?

  No.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  So you, you do want to, you do want to figure out how to share that story in such a way that you don't gross people out, leading up to you talking about your pie. But what I love about the time that you are calling in right now is we don't have to undo anything.

• 39:31Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  Meaning you have not gone down the road of having a name that is very difficult to find. So Eat Joe Pie, terrible. I'm going to tell you that now. It's terrible. And I'm going to tell you why it's terrible, is you can't own it. You cannot own the online real estate. So that is the, your, your URLs. Once that's gone, that's gone. And so you always want to start with what can I own online? And work my way backwards from it. The reason why we called Uncle Nearest Uncle Nearest and not Nearest Green is there was no way to own Nearest Green. Until we defined him as a human being directly tied to Uncle Neers and built that into this huge

• 40:10Speaker 01

  name that if you Google it, I own 20 pages of Google easily, if not more than that, right?

• 40:17Speaker 07

  Right.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  You, the only way that you can build and not pay out of the wazoo is you have to own the online real estate. When people go to your company, so I literally, I took the time, by the way, while we were sitting here to go on GoDaddy.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  And your name is Joe Bang?

• 40:36Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 40:36Guy Raz?

  Is That's a good name.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Perfect for a brand. Just literally just Joe Bang.

• 40:42Guy Raz?

  Joe Bang pies.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  Pies. Are you kidding me right now? It is so, it's so brilliant.

• 40:50Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:51Guy Raz?

  You can see, I guess, like the Food Network show, Bang.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 40:54Guy Raz?

  Here it is.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  You can literally see Joe Bang, Joe Bang, Joe Bang.

• 40:57Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  And you can own that. And so what I love about that you being here right now is we can help you to change your name.

• 41:04Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 41:05Speaker 01

  Before you go out there, because if you can't own the real estate, if you cannot own the trademark in, in a way that ties to the online real estate, come up with another name. I see so many founders out there with incredible brands and it's falling flat because no one can find them because they chose a name that wasn't ownable.

• 41:29Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Joanne, we may have already answered your question partially, but I know you've come with a specific question.

• 41:36Speaker 07

  Right.

• 41:36Guy Raz?

  So, let's hear it.

• 41:38Speaker 07

  Yeah. So my question I wanted to ask today was how I can generate more demand through social media?

• 41:46Speaker 01

  Uh, first of all, own the online real estate.

• 41:49Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 41:50Guy Raz?

  Yes.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  Be, because keep in mind, social media, you will never own. You are renting. At any given moment, they can kick you off of the platform. They can change the platform. They can change the algorithm so that they're only, you know, showing people who hop on one foot. Like literally, you cannot rely on social media to build your business because you don't own it. Okay. You have to start with what you can own and look at social media as an additive to what you already own. And so your home base, your real estate is where everything needs to be pointing to. That is where your story needs to be told.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  So when you get out there and you start telling your story in the press, you are not sending them to your social media pages. You are sending them to what you own. Right. And so that for you, I would take Joe Bang and run with it all day. You can be Joe Bang Perfect Pie, Joe Bang, you can do whatever you want, but you want to own what it is that you are doing and refer everyone back to that. So yes, social media is important. And I started off, I tell you, when I posted my first thing on Instagram, I really had probably a couple hundred followers and it was literally a mug that said love with a it was and I just said, hey y'all, I'm testing this out. Like this is, I'm not kidding you.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  And now I have more engagement on my social media pages than influencers with millions of followers. And I built my separate profile, separate from Uncle Neera. So Uncle Neera's at one point had way more social media followers than I did. And I just kept at it on my own page, letting people get to know me, the person behind the brand. And it's always been organic. Do not pay. Build it organically or you will not have the engagement that will actually allow you to sell products.

• 43:44Guy Raz?

  Joanne, I would also add to that, that I think that you, as you put up posts of making pies and different ideas around pies, identify people, start with people in Orange County, LA County, who are influential. Maybe they write for food blogs or they write for culture blogs or they post on Instagram about the best places to get food. I mean, we're, we're about to do the story of Dave's Hot Chicken. I mean, that, that brand really blew up because a writer from Eater LA went to their pop up and was like, this is the best Nashville fried chicken sandwich in America. And the next day, there was a two hour wait. So something like that can really crack it open for you. So, so try to identify some of those people and just reach out and say, can I send you a pie?

• 44:29Guy Raz?

  And just send them pies.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  All right. And, and tell them it is the most perfect pie they've ever had because then you are challenging them to taste your pie and to compare it to every other pecan pie they've ever had.

• 44:45Guy Raz?

  Joanne, thanks so much for coming on the show. Best of luck to you.

• 44:48Speaker 07

  Thanks.

• 44:49Guy Raz?

  Yes, we're going to look out for your Instagram. Joe Bang.

• 44:52Speaker 07

  Thank you. Yes.

• 44:54Guy Raz?

  All right, thanks. Fawn, wow, we just, amazing. I hope, I think, I hope this is going to be, I think it's going to be helpful for everyone. I mean, wow.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  I love this. I love that you're doing this. This is going to help so many entrepreneurs as they're starting out because we have to pivot so much. We make decisions and we fall in love with those decisions and they don't work.

• 45:16Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  And so you have to pivot. So you're helping people to pivot earlier. And that is, that's amazing. This is going to be so helpful for people.

• 45:25Guy Raz?

  Well, thank you for joining me on the ride. You're awesome.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Thank you. I appreciate being on this ride. I am so grateful to be able to help these entrepreneurs. This is awesome.

• 45:36Guy Raz?

  And by the way, if you haven't heard Fawn's episode, you should go back, just scroll down our podcast queue, check it out. It's an incredible story, the story of Uncle Nearest Whiskey and the way Fawn tells it. Thank you, everybody, for listening to the show this week. If you are working on a business and you would like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or the questions that you'd like help with. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice memo at [email protected] or you can call, the number is 1-800-433-1298 and leave a message there and we'll put all that info in the podcast description.

• 46:20Guy Raz?

  So thanks again and we'll see you back here next week. This episode was produced by Chris Messini with music composed by Sam Paulson and Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Neil Rousch. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Carla Estevez, Casey Herman, J.C. Howard, Catherine Seifer, Carrie Thompson, Malia Agudelo, and Neva Grant. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to How I Built This Lab.