How this Yelp AI PM works backward from “golden conversations” to create high-quality prototypes using Claude Artifacts and Magic Patterns | Priya Badger

Priya Badger, a product manager at Yelp, shares her innovative approach to designing AI-powered products by starting with example conversations rather than traditional wireframes or PRDs. In this episode, she demonstrates how she uses Claude and Magic Patterns to prototype Yelp’s AI assistant features—from exploring conversation flows to designing user interfaces. What you’ll learn: 1. How to use example conversations as your first “wireframe” when designing conversational AI products 2. A step-by-step workflow for using Claude to generate and refine sample conversations that guide your AI product development 3. Techniques for creating interactive prototypes with Claude Artifacts that use real LLM responses without complex API integrations 4. How to use Magic Patterns’ Inspiration mode to rapidly explore multiple UI variations for your AI features 5. Why starting with conversations and working backward to system prompts creates more natural AI interactions 6. How to apply these AI prototyping techniques to personal projects to build your AI product management skills — Brought to you by: GoFundMe Giving Funds http://gofundme.com/howiai—One account. Zero hassle. Persona https://withpersona.com/lp/howiai—Trusted identity verification for any use case — Where to find Priya Badger: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/priyamathewprofile/ Substack: https://almostmagic.substack.com/ — Where to find Claire Vo: ChatPRD: https://www.chatprd.ai/ Website: https://clairevo.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairevo/ X: https://x.com/clairevo — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Priya (02:54) The unique challenges of managing AI-powered products (04:33) Using example conversations as a starting point for design (05:53) Demo: Prompting Claude to generate sample conversations (09:10) Prototyping advice (09:53) Testing with multiple example images and scenarios (15:03) Refining conversations based on qualitative assessment (15:59) Demo: Creating interactive prototypes with Claude Artifacts (21:22) Using Magic Patterns to design the user interface (25:30) Exploring multiple design variations with Inspiration mode (31:02) Quick summary (33:35) How to apply these AI prototyping techniques to personal projects (38:57) Final thoughts — Tools referenced: • Claude: https://claude.ai/ • Magic Patterns: https://magicpatterns.com/ • Lovable: https://lovable.ai/ • Figma: https://www.figma.com/ • ChatGPT: https://chat.openai.com/ — Other references: • How to build prototypes that actually look like your product | Colin Matthews (product leader, AI prototyping instructor at Maven): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-build-prototypes-that-actually — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Claire Vo?

  Where do you start when you're thinking about designing and framing out an AI product for what you're working on at work?

• 0:07Speaker 01

  What's different about managing products that are powered by AI is there is the interface of how a user interacts with any product or product feature. And that still really matters. And there's also a lot going on behind the scenes. There's a lot also about how do you drive good quality products? Because these technologies produce different results each time you use them. So we start with golden conversations. What's the experience that you're trying to drive? And so this is just a way for me to think about how to write that role playing a little bit with AI.

• 0:41Claire Vo?

  What you're saying is actually write an example conversation that can represent what a real user might do. You're working backwards from that example conversation, which I have actually not seen anybody do before.

• 0:57Claire Vo?

  Welcome back to How I AI. I'm Clairveaux, product leader and AI obsessive here on a mission to help you build better with these new tools. Today, we have an AIPM showing us how to AIPM. Priya Matthew Badger is a PM at Yelp and is showing us a completely new way to think about product requirements, prototyping, and how to build effective conversational agents using conversational agents. Let's get to it. This episode is brought to you by GoFundMe Giving Funds, the Zero DAF. I want to tell you about a new product GoFundMe has launched called Giving Funds, a smarter, easier way to give, especially during tax season, which is basically here.

• 1:40Claire Vo?

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• 2:24Claire Vo?

  Join the GoFundMe community of 200 million and start saving money on your tax bill. All while helping the causes you care about the most. Start your giving fund today in just minutes at gofundme.com/HowIAI. We'll even cover the DAF pay fees if you transfer your existing DAF over. That's gofundme.com/HowIAI to start your giving fund. Priya, welcome to How I AI. I am so excited to have you here because whenever anybody asks me and they ask me a lot, how do I do AI product management?

• 3:06Claire Vo?

  I have to say, wait, are you talking about product managing with AI? Because I have some ideas about that. Or are you talking about product managing AI products? And what's really great about the conversation we're about to have is you actually do both. So what in your mind is really different about product managing products using AI?

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm really excited to be here. Big fan of the show and have learned a lot about AI, both managing AI products and how to use it in my day to day from the podcast. So it's exciting to be here. For me, I think, you know, what's different about managing products that are powered by AI is there is the, you know, interface of how a user interacts with a, with any product or product feature. And that still really matters with AI products. And I'll show some of the tools that we use to explore that. Then there's also a lot going on behind the scenes that determines the product experience for the consumer. So the system prompts and how that guides the conversation flow is really interesting.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  And I think kind of a new challenge when you're working on AI-powered products. And there's a lot also about how do you drive good quality products? Because these technologies produce different results each time you use them. So there's a lot of interesting challenges there, too.

• 4:34Claire Vo?

  Yeah, so I'm really excited to myself learn from your flow because I'm building an AI-powered product as well. And so let's dive into it. Where do you start when you're thinking about designing and framing out a AI product for what you're working on at work?

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. So I've had a good example would be to talk about building a new feature capability into our Yelp assistant. So that's the product I work on. And the way it works is a consumer can come in for a service need. So let's say you want to hire a handyman, a plumber, an electrician, somebody to fix your car, and you can describe the problem in your own words. And then the AI will understand what you're saying, collect some project details, and help you get matched to pros and get quotes. And so that's how the product works. And we recently launched a feature that allowed consumers to upload a photo to help describe their need. And that just makes sense, right? It helps for

• 5:33Speaker 01

  pros sometimes to be able to see a photo along with the description. But one of the things we wanted to do was because we're doing this in our AI assistant, think about, you know, how can we leverage those AI capabilities? Can the AI understand what's in the photo and customize the conversation from there, providing, you know, some recommendations around what the consumer should do next?

• 5:53Claire Vo?

  As a Yelp user, I can imagine that the variety of services that your pros are providing and, you know, I don't run consumer businesses, but I can imagine the variety of things a user puts into these conversational or image upload interfaces could be very diverse. So I'm curious how you approach that from a product development perspective?

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we certainly cover a lot of different categories of service needs at Yelp. And one of the challenges is, yeah, making sure that the experiences work across all those different use cases that a consumer might have. Do you want to jump in? And I'll show you my workflow.

• 6:34Claire Vo?

  Yeah, let's do that.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Okay, so I'm gonna just open up Claude and here we're starting in a totally new window. And you know, as we talked about, like, I think there's, you know, two pieces to these AI products. There's the behind the scenes part and then there's the interface, user interface that consumers see. And I like to start with thinking about what is that conversation flow gonna look like when we add this new functionality? And so I'm gonna show you here how you can do that with Claude. And you can also use ChatGPT or any other of these foundational models. So here I'll say, write a complete sample conversation between the consumer and the AI assistant, where we want consumers to be able to upload their photo. And then just add some scenario requirements, like we want the assistant to analyze the photo,

• 7:20Speaker 01

  maybe provide some suggested replies and continue that back and forth until they have enough info to submit quotes. One thing I'll call out on the prompt thing is I do like to give a little direction on what the output looks like. So you can see here, I'm saying like, use assistant colon, user colon for labels, write it as one continuous conversation. I think that really helps make sure that, you know, you got the output that you're looking for and there's a little less back and forth with the AI.

• 7:48Claire Vo?

  So for the folks listening, one of the things I want to call out that I think is really interesting about this approach is you're sort of using a example conversation as your first pass wireframe for building a conversational AI. So instead of saying like, show me a chat window and show me messages that show up in these buttons, what you're saying is actually write an example conversation that can represent what a real user might do. And you kind of give some constraints about what that conversation could look like. And you give it some of the capabilities that might be available during that conversation. And you're working backwards from that example conversation, which I have actually not seen anybody do before.

• 8:33Claire Vo?

  So I think it's a really unique approach that product managers out there working on conversational AI products, including myself, can really take a lot of inspiration from. How did you come to this idea? I mean, was this your like, are you just a genius? And you're like, this is the first thing that we need to do? Or how did you come to this idea?

• 8:50Speaker 01

  No, I mean, I think this is part of our standard alum-powered playbook at Yelp, where we start with golden conversations. What's the experience that you're trying to drive? And so, you know, I think this is just a way for me to like, think about how to write that role-playing a little bit with AI.

• 9:10Claire Vo?

  Yeah, and I just want to call this out. We're going to take a little side detour to just some product management ideas, which is, I often tell product managers to prototype their product as close to the end product that a consumer is going to consume, including the content. So when I worked in DevTools, I would tell a lot of our PMs, "Don't write a PRD, write a quick start and documentation guide to the product, write the code snippets, and then work backwards into what the product should look like." And so I love this idea of, just from a general product perspective, work with the artifact that's closest to what the consumer is actually going to experience. And then you can back into all the requirements once you're kind of inspired by what that end state is.

• 9:54Claire Vo?

  So what does something like this get you?

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. So let's go through it. So I'm actually going to upload a real photo of a home service need. So here's like a picture with a cracked porch.

• 10:07Claire Vo?

  I hope that's not your cracked porch.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  It's not, no.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then we'll look at what Claude comes back with. I will say, one of the pictures I'm going to test is from my bathroom renovation. So you will see my bathroom. And one thing I'll call out is Claude now shows you your thought process, and you'll see this in a lot of AI tools. I really like to read the thought process, and it's also something to do while you're waiting. But I think it really helps because you can see how it's understanding you. If it doesn't come back with what you want, it also is really good for troubleshooting. So definitely something I recommend doing.

• 10:44Claire Vo?

  Yeah, one thing that I'll do while this is loading is call out, I too think that reading the reasoning or the thought process of the AI is interesting for two reasons. One, it can often help you improve your prompts because you understand what the AI is understanding or not understanding about your prompts. As somebody who likes misspelled, no sentence, low syntax prompts myself, good to see where I'm misleading the AI. The other thing is the thought process is often where the AI reveals its personality. I think it is so funny to read like Gemini 2.5's thought process versus 0.3 versus Claude is very nice. Claude practices self-love, Gemini 2.5 does not.

• 11:26Claire Vo?

  And so I just think it's also interesting from just like a model understanding perspective. Okay, so we got a chat here.

• 11:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, so then we can read through the chat and it's saying like, I can see you've uploaded this photo of a front porch steps with a significant crack running through the concrete, so pretty good recognition of the photo. And then it says, let me ask a few questions. How urgent is this? Are you looking to repair this? Would you prefer to replace the entire steps? And so I can look through this and maybe workshop it a little bit, giving it some feedback. I also find it's helpful to just create some more examples. Sometimes like when you see a lot of examples, that's when the trends come out and that's when you see what you might want to improve or change. And so I have a bunch of images now.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  So now that I've tested it with one and I've seen that it works pretty well with that one, I'm now going to test it with a lot more images. And this is the prompt I'm going to use. So I'm going to say now create more examples based on these images. And to your point earlier, Yelp covers lots of different types of service needs. So this is where you can kind of test and see how is it going to do across a lot of different problems. And so here I have like an appliance repair issue with an error code. I have a fornet swastika nest. So you can see a larger variety of things. And just because I know you really wanted to see my bathroom, I will also.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Upload and add a picture of my bathroom renovation in progress. And then I'm going to say, you know, label each conversation with a title and a number at the top. So just another example of how just that like little nudge on the output can really help you get something usable.

• 13:14Claire Vo?

  Great. And so we're going to see here how this AI thinks about potentially framing responses to consumers on a variety of, as a homeowner, total nightmare scenarios. Everything from a wasp to a bathroom renovation, which I am also about to start, is just a nightmare to me whether or not I want to do it. And so you're getting these example conversations. And what are you looking for? Are you, are you looking for patterns? Are you looking for product inspiration? What's kind of the thing that you're seeking in these examples?

• 13:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a great question. I think this like goes in with, you know, there's the, you know, a lot of people talk about like evals are the new PRD.

• 13:56Claire Vo?

  Yeah.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  And this is like the very early step of getting, getting to the eval process. Um, you know, I think you, you get a sense of like, what are the criteria that are important for this capability? So, you know, the first thing is like, did it actually recognize the image well? Right? So I can compare and see like in this first one, like the oven door lock malfunction, where I've uploaded this picture and it is actually looking and seeing that like it has the door locked and it's trying to understand that issue. You know, maybe we would give it feedback to go one step further, like pull that E3 error code, you know, look in your LM, see if you, understanding to see if you can guess what

• 14:37Speaker 01

  the issue is and, and diagnose it better. Um, but I think that's like the first step of is it, um, doing that recognition right? And then after that, you know, we're, we're looking through the conversation to, first I just look at it qualitatively to see like, does this feel like it sounds like it flows well? Is it concise? Is it easy to understand? Um, and then we'd probably develop like more of a rubric around what are the criteria that we're looking for.

• 15:03Claire Vo?

  Okay, so you have these different conversations. What do you do with them next?

• 15:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I'll just show one example of refining these conversations and why AI is really great for this. So, you know, let's say I say, I think it's good, but I don't think it's being as opinionated as it could be about like offering the user a recommendation. And maybe sometimes it's talking about budget, which we think the consumer may not know. So I can ask it to rewrite these conversations based on this feedback. And it will go through and update all those conversations for me, which I think is really nice. And, um, you know, then you can go through and see, you know, do you feel like it's taking that feedback? Well, is it actually rewriting it, um, based on that guidance? But definitely, you know, you can see here, it's saying like, this definitely requires professional pest control.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Don't attempt the DIY or removal of this nest, um, which I think is probably good advice.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  And then to your other point about like, how do we get, um, an artifact that is closest to the, what the consumer will experience? That is the next step that I'm going to show you and something I think that is pretty unique to Claude. So Claude has a special functionality built in where it actually can create an artifact that uses the LLM that powers Claude to produce those responses. And that's very unique to Claude. If you did this in another prototyping tool, you would typically have to set up an API key and, um, integration, which just takes a little bit more work. And with Claude, you can do it out of the box.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  So here you can see I'm asking it to create an assistant app as an artifact, have a chat interface where the AI responds using the LLM that powers Claude. And then also create system and, uh, prompt that is based on these example conversations. And then analyze these uploaded photos and include a camera, um, icon in the input. And then I'm actually going to upload some, um, screen grabs of our current Yelp assistant and indicate that it should use these attached screenshots as an example for what the front end should look like. Just so that it feels a little bit more real.

• 17:13Claire Vo?

  Got it. So you really are using example conversations and just reference designs as your PRD here. And then what you called out that's unique about Claude artifacts is it has fully integrated Claude AI. So you can actually generate artifacts that do make native LLM calls to the Anthropic API. So if you are prototyping a little AI product out there, check out Claude because it just makes it a little simpler and you don't have to pass it a bunch of API keys.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And you can see that it's writing the code here. And at the top, it actually wrote the system instructions. And I think this is also a really good way to learn because you can see that based on these example conversations, how is Claude translating that into system instructions? So it's, you know, mirroring some of my initial prompting and redirection around providing suggested replies, not asking the user about budget. And so I think that's really helpful. And then you can see it gives some examples from my examples as part of how to guide the assistant around photo analysis as well. All right. And so I'm going to test it out and we'll see if it works out of the box.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  It does sometimes require a little back and forth. So you can see here, I have uploaded the photo of my issue and Claude is thinking. Okay, great. So here you can see it worked pretty well. So it said, you know, I can see it's showing F2 in red and the door locked. And this is a common error code relating to oven lock. You know, typically you want a repair technician. It's asking about the urgency. So it is, you know, simulating pretty well this conversation. And one of the reasons why I think it's helpful to simulate it in this kind of artifact is you can also get a real feel of how this would be for the user. Like you can see, like, sometimes a response that looks fine when you have it

• 19:14Speaker 01

  in a dock feels really long when you see it in like the little chat bubble and the mobile interface. And, you know, that waiting period of like the three dots and then the response comes back when you play out the full conversation can feel very different. So I think this is also a really good step to do.

• 19:31Claire Vo?

  And then you can, of course, share this with your team or your designers, your engineers, and they can also start to get a sense of how does this feel? Can we actually do this? How can we refine it or make it even operate better? So I just have never thought of this flow. I have to repeat it again for folks. You know, kind of starting inside out with a conversational agent, prototyping example conversations first, getting them refined, getting a good set of example conversations that you can then put into a prototype generating tool, in this instance, Claude, to then back into the chat experience, including the system prompt. That would best serve those conversations as such a great flow.

• 20:15Claire Vo?

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• 20:59Claire Vo?

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• 21:23Claire Vo?

  You know, now what I have to call out is this looks pretty good, but it doesn't look quite like Yelp. So how do you take this? How do you take this to that next step of, you know, really designing out what the real product might look like?

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. And I will say like, I think this is all just a starting point and it's a part of a conversation with your larger team, right? With engineers and with designers. Like, I think this is really something that helps me clarify my own thinking and ideas and like, refine what does that ideal conversation look like? And also just, you know, be a better collaborator because I understand system instructions better as we're going through features. But yeah, so I think, you know, it still goes through our usual like design and engineering processes. Once we have a good idea of, you know, where we're headed and it really has been a collaborative process for us between design, product and engineering. We're all writing these conversations together. We're giving each other feedback on them.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  So now we're going to, I'm going to talk about, you know, how do we, how do we think about the exploring ideas on the other side? So we went pretty deep on like, what does that conversation flow look like? How can we use Claude to explore ideas there? And the other piece is like, how do you use, what does the interface look like? What are the user flows? How does a user get into these assistant experiences? And I have seen that a lot of those little details matter as well. You know, what are the prompts? How does a user understand the capabilities of the assistant? And so here with, I'm going to show another tool, which is Magic Patterns. And I think Magic Patterns is really great for when you want to explore something visually and like, kind of consider what that flow would look like.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  I know Colin Matthews was on this show earlier and he showed how you can recreate, you know, an existing product using component library or screenshots. So I'm not going to cover that in detail. So here I've recreated our Yelp assistant with that kind of approach. But I'm going to show you how you can then move on to actually explore features within Magic Patterns, which I think is a lot of fun. So here I'm going to actually ask it to add a prompt suggestion at the top for start with a photo, which allows the user to upload a photo. And you know, you can see here, it's, it's thinking and it's saying, I will start add this prompt suggestion for start with a photo.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  This will likely require these things for styling. I'm going to consider this. So again, like reading those thinking instructions, I think is super helpful.

• 23:56Claire Vo?

  So what it's doing now, now that it has those instructions, it looks like it's sort of doing this thing that you see in a lot of these prototyping tools, which is it's creating or updating new components, updating components. It's going to kind of insert those design elements into, into this design for you to give feedback and test with. And I just have to say, you've been a PM for a little bit. I've been a PM for a little bit. Have you ever had access to this kind of like on-demand design and code? Like, has this totally like changed the way you think about working through designs, wireframes, stuff like that?

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it absolutely has. Yeah, I think my mind was kind of blown, to be honest. The first time I used these like natural language prompting prototyping tools, just because, yeah, it's just so magical for you as a PM to be like, hey, I can just describe what's in my head and actually have it, you know, come to life in a prototype. So it really has, you know, I think the core of the, of the PM job and the earliest part of the workflow hasn't really changed in that you're still trying to understand deeply the user problem, figure out what to prioritize. But I think it really helps in the phase after that where as a team, you're exploring the solution space. What can really solve that problem for a user? How do we make them aware of it? How do we make sure it's easy

• 25:18Speaker 01

  to use? And I feel like it's just really fun to be able to like play around in these tools and explore ideas myself visually and, and find better ways where I can communicate something that's in my head.

• 25:31Claire Vo?

  Amazing. Okay, so now we have a start with a photo.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Okay, so yeah, we have a start with a photo. So you can see here, it's got this UI where I can start with a photo. So you know, that's, you know, one option. And of course, like, you know, we did something simple when we launched this feature where there's just a camera icon. But I'm showing this example as a way that, you know, you can explore like, what would other ways be that we could make this experience? As you're thinking about iterating. And so here, I'm going to show you this really cool feature within Magic Patterns, which is called Inspiration Mode. And definitely recommend digging into this menu in general. They have like a lot of nice little shortcuts. But this Inspiration Mode is my favorite because you can quickly explore lots of different options.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  So here I can say, give me some options on how the start with a photo flow could work to make it feel more guided for the user. And this part of the prompt, I workshopped a little bit, but I think works to help have the Inspiration Mode come up with different ideas. I say like, think expansively and make each option differentiated. And then explain in your response which option, what each option is. And so I'm going to go ahead and submit that. And it will generate for me four different options. And you'll see that once it goes through this process, it will actually have four different boxes on the screen. And as you want to explore those options, you can click through those boxes and it'll update what's on the left side.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  So you can really quickly explore and see the different ideas and, you know, decide what you like. And I like doing this because I think sometimes we come in and we feel like we need to have a whole PRD before we can start prototyping. And that's definitely one approach and use case for AI prototyping tools. But I've also found that they're helpful even earlier when you, you do understand your, you know, your user problem, what you're trying to solve for. But you may not know really what the solution looks like and you want to explore and maybe get some ideas from AI as well.

• 27:33Claire Vo?

  Yeah, this just makes me think, I don't know if designers are going to love this or hate this. I remember this experience when I was a designer where somebody would give me a PRD or a feature like this. And I would give them back a design like what we see on the left and they'd be like, great, but can we like try it over here, try it over there and move it up there and make it this button and like make it a link? And that like manual iteration where it wasn't really.

• 27:59Claire Vo?

  Moving the product forward, it was kind of getting our own minds around what the problem space and the solution space could be so that we could move the product forward. Just took a lot of time. And so I think it's really interesting to compress the time for ideation so that you can get to the ultimate product a little bit faster.

• 28:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And like some of our designers are also using using magic patterns or even other AI prototyping tools like Figma has it Figma make. And and so I think it's really just part of the conversation. You know, I'll ping a designer, hey, I was thinking about this and, you know, was thinking maybe we could go in this direction and send them a link and they'll be go, I was, you know, exploring something similar and we'll just trade notes. So to me, it's a replacement for what I was doing before, which was really hacky Figma mockups and like not so great wireframes. And so I think it's an extension of that, like, wireframing hacky Figma prototype process where it just is easier for someone to understand because they can actually click through and see the flow.

• 29:00Claire Vo?

  Yeah, it's just more interactive, I think, is really, it might not be higher fidelity, but it's a richer kind of prototype experience than you would get from sort of a flat design. Okay, we at least have three successful generations. We can quickly.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  With with all AI, you know, sometimes you get errors, but you know, here it says it's like a guided category selection flow. So we'll click through and see what they did. So you can see here, it's like, kind of customizing it a little bit for the category of of the service. So I'm going to go back and maybe select another category and see how it's different. So it's like, you know, kind of customizing some of the tips. In this one, let's see, I might need to actually select a photo to see what it does. So you can see it's like going through an analysis. You know, this is not using the L on the behind the scenes. So you can see it's not not making sense. But I think the idea here

• 29:57Speaker 01

  makes sense where it's like, okay, it's gonna do this like kind of real time detection. And then in this one, it looks like it's like multiple photos. You can see here, it's, you know, showing like, you know, you could prompt the user to maybe take multiple pictures. I will just click on this to show that, you know, this is how AI works, or sometimes. Sometimes you got errors and you need to fix them. You know, usually there's that like shortcut to like try to fix it. If it doesn't work, there is also like a debug command within magic patterns, which I found pretty useful, which just tells it to like look through your code, try to come up with what's wrong to fix it.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Let's see if it did fix it.

• 30:42Claire Vo?

  For our listeners that are not are not watching, I will spare you reading the Uncaught React errors about incompatible React versions, but that is what we are looking at right now, which is we are looking at a compatibility issue between 18 and 19.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:02Claire Vo?

  All right. So like all good AI demos, this one did not work. But I do want to say, just stepping back, what I wanted to just call out is you have demoed for us a completely new way of thinking about product management, prototyping and product requirements in a way that is very different than I think what classic product management has looked at. And so you're starting from a kind of example consumer experience first. You're backing into kind of a rough prototype of what could support that experience. You're using a AI prototyping tool, in this instance, magic patterns,

• 31:44Claire Vo?

  to then put that experience in your brand and design guidelines. And then you're using that as a jumping off point to fork and inspire a couple of different versions of what that ultimate user experience could look like. And then I'm presuming you're going to take one of these and you're going to say, I think we want to start here for our MVP or our V1. And then that, you know, you get the team together and then and then that's where you start. And so. I think for the product people listening, what I like about AI is it's not just multimodal in that you can put any sort of file type or data type in. It also allows you to approach problems from the front door, the back door, the side door,

• 32:26Claire Vo?

  the window, like, you know, you can come at your product problems in a much less linear way. And in fact, you can start at the end, go back to the beginning, come to the middle, fork off, go back to the beginning and re-prototype, and it's not expensive, it's fast, and it's interesting. And so I think what you've inspired me to do is actually think a little bit differently about what the starting point of product management could be, not just for AI products, but for product in general. And then, of course, you showed some great ways that AI can help with that.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And I will say, yeah, to your point, you know, you can pick which one you like the best, which you think fits your, you know, where you are in your, in your product journey and your user needs. You can also, like, if there's one that feels like, hey, this like AI-assisted one seems really interesting, or this multi-photo one seems really interesting, but maybe not like where we're going to go right away, you can fork this design and it will create a totally separate window and chat for you of just that variant. And then you can just run off with that, you know, maybe on the side while you're continuing down the original path you were in.

• 33:34Claire Vo?

  I, I love that. So we have seen your AI-powered AIPM process, and usually I would bump us to lightning round, but part of our lightning round is going to have a couple demos in it. So as my first lightning round question, can you do a quick world tour of a couple non-work-related AI use cases that you think our listeners would really get a lot of value from?

• 34:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. I can share a few personal examples also. So one is, you know, I have started this, you know, Talk AI channel that was at Yelp, which was actually inspired by a Talk AI channel in Lenny's community, and I wanted to create a monthly newsletter. That gets sent out that just summarizes all the great discussion and content that was being created there. And so I'm just going to show an example of how to do that using Lenny's community. And so here I have this set of project instructions and say, you know, I'm a community manager, writing a weekly newsletter.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  Use these Slack conversations and format them just like the community wisdom newsletter. And then I think what's really cool is I can just come in here and I can say, you know, I want to just make a version of this community wisdom using the Slack chat and I can upload the file of all those Slack chats. And I did randomize the names or replace the names for privacy, also using GPT. And then you can see here, it's going to make a version of that community wisdom newsletter, just using those Slack chats and reuse that same format.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  And by using a project, I can, you know, save myself some time on the prompting.

• 35:28Claire Vo?

  Great. So you're copying and pasting like a week's worth of Slack conversations. You're putting it into this Claude project, which you've been given a, you've given a template. And then you're having it generate on a weekly basis or whatever, kind of a summary of what's going on in that community and other kind of like content that's being shared.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And then you can see, you know, kind of follows that community wisdom format and pulls out what the top threads are. And so you might want to make some edits to this afterwards, but it really, you know, gets a really good first draft that you can then edit.

• 36:06Claire Vo?

  Amazing. And you're probably everybody's favorite community member.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's definitely a lot of fun to, yeah, see what people share. And then I'll show a couple of other examples. So, you know, I showed the example of creating the Yelp assistant. And I actually used the same workflow to create this parent pal to explain how artifacts work to my husband. And he was really excited. About it. He was like, hey, like, let's try it out with, you know, Tommy, where Tommy throws toys down the stairs. So, you know, I did like, you know, my two year old um throws toys down the stairs. And uh it's some the same kind of artifact where it's powered by Claude's LLM.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  And it's going to ask me some clarifying questions, like, what's the trigger? And it's like, always at dinnertime when we are cleaning up. Um, and then you can, you know, see how the AI will provide some parenting guidance. And I think the really fun thing for this is that, you know, you can build something that's just really for your own personal use case. Um, and it's a really fun process to do that. I'll show one other one, which is um, my siblings and I like to play this board game Settlers of Catan, but the bad thing is it kind of takes a long time, especially if people don't go fast. So I'm working on this Settlers of Catan timer where um, actually have a timer for me and my siblings and both for the setup and the main gameplay.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  But this one I actually built in lovable because my siblings had a lot of feature requests about tracking the future, uh, you know, who who's won over time and having a leaderboard and handicaps and all sorts of other ideas. So I definitely think it's a lot of fun to prototype with AI for your personal use cases. And I know some PMs are like, hey, I really want to work on AI products, but I don't have that opportunity right now. I think the fun thing about these prototyping tools is you can build a use case that's just for you or just for you and a family member. Um, and learn a lot as you're doing it.

• 38:10Claire Vo?

  You just gave me such a good idea because I don't play a lot of board games, but my kids get like 10 to 15 minutes of Minecraft every day, but we only have one like a time time timer. Um, and so I need an iPad where they can like both click their button and have it have it countdown. And then they're also really worried about fairness. So I will also use a relational database to store all their time. And say, I promise every week you are getting an equal amount of Minecraft. There is no, no lack of fairness. And then when they fight about it, I'll use your parent pal GPT.

• 38:51Speaker 01

  I love it. Yeah, you can just direct them to check the dashboard.

• 38:56Claire Vo?

  Amazing. Okay, last question, and then I will get you back to all your prototyping and all your AI building. When AI is not listening, other than clicking that debug button in Magic Patterns, what is your tactic? What do you do?

• 39:11Speaker 01

  I think that when AI is not working, and you've already tried some of the debug methods, I think it's helpful to actually think about the ways that AI is different than a human. Like, often, we just get in this chat, and we're like, this is just like talking to someone. But when you're hitting the wall, it helps to like, take a step back and be like, this thing is actually not a human. Like, what could be going wrong? And think about AI's limitations. And, you know, the ones that I try to keep in mind are, it tends to lose context as you go through many different turns, and it has a limited context window. And so, when you start having a really long conversation with AI, sometimes it just goes haywire. And so, the methods I

• 39:54Speaker 01

  recommend are, if you're doing AI prototyping, you can use that fork, or, you know, a remix, to start a new chat with the context of that code, and that actually resets the context window. So that's a good idea if you're going really far and deep with a prototype. And the same thing applies to a chat. Like, if it's going haywire, and you've had like 100 back and forths, you can ask the AI to summarize the chat and the context and start a new chat.

• 40:22Claire Vo?

  You gave me such a good idea with your last two answers, because I am going to prototype a parenting pal for the relationship between me and my AI. Be like, AI parenting pal, my four-second-old AI is no longer listening to me. What do I do? That's really great, really great feedback. And yes, reminder, AI is not human until the AI overlords take over, and then you can be whatever you want. All right, Priya, this was such a practical, super useful, inspirational conversation. Where can we find you and how can we be helpful?

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn, and then I also have a Substack called AlmostMagic.substack, where I share some prototyping tips and other tips about building AI products.

• 41:10Claire Vo?

  Amazing. Well, thank you for sharing and joining How I AI.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  Awesome. Thanks so much for having me.

• 41:17Claire Vo?

  Thanks so much for watching. If you enjoyed this show, please like and subscribe here on YouTube, or even better, leave us a comment with your thoughts. You can also find this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Please consider leaving us a rating and review, which will help others find the show. You can see all our episodes and learn more about the show at howiaipod.com. See you next time.