THE ODYSSEY: The Trojan War

Hello you! Let's kick off our deep dive into the works of Homer by looking at the most contentious conflict in history - The Trojan War! Was Is it real? Is it allegory? Is there evidence? And who TF is Helen? Fear not my divas for the daunting task of diagnosis, for we are going to unpack it all right now! Shout out to our incredible researcher Grace McCamish for pulling this together, and if you're wanting more Hot History you can follow along on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/hothistoryclub/?hl=en, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@hot.history?lang=en and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@hot.history and of course, right here! Til next week, Ainslie x

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi guys, before we get started today, I just wanted to leave a little note. It is very hard to pronounce some of the names of the gods and the people and the places and the cities here, okay? I promise you, like, I try my best to look up all the pronunciations and things like that and try and like read it out phonetically. And like do the like Google speech and those YouTube things with like this is how you say it. I try my absolute best, but it is hard. So if we can just all know what I'm talking about and glaze over the pronunciations, pretty, pretty please, you'd all make my day, alright? Let's get into it.

• 1:30Speaker 01

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• 1:59Speaker 00

  Hi guys and welcome back to Hot History, your corner of the internet where we cover all the things in history that you probably should know but don't. I'm Ainslie Harvey, your hot historian here, ready to chat today about probably the single most contentious conflict in history. I mean, is it real? Is it allegory? Is there evidence? And should we trust all recorded history?

• 2:26Speaker 00

  We are going to answer all of those questions and so much more in this episode on the Trojan War, guys. I have come with my little Grecian braids in, so we are going to dive straight into it and rewind all the way back to the late Mycenaean period, somewhere around 1250 BCE. Now, at this point in time, we are at the end of the Late Bronze Age, which matters here because this was a moment of real cataclysmic change, guys. Historian and author Brett Deverall describes this period as an end of civilization event, marked by a series of destructions by both man and nature, with the clashing of states throughout the Mediterranean, leading to serious political and social chasms, which ultimately then plunged

• 3:10Speaker 00

  those who survived into the Dark Ages, AKA the time where once mighty kingdoms, languages, and technologies fell. So the Trojan War is happening right in this period of great change and disaster. It's this real kind of like melting point for just shit to go down. So what's the beef then? Right? Like you hear so much about the Trojan War, you hear Helen, like what's all this mean? Was it real? Who's involved? And why are there condoms named after it? Well, guys, it begins with, at least according to man, where all things start, a woman. Well, actually, to be honest, three goddesses. And if you really do get into it, it actually starts

• 3:53Speaker 00

  with the laziness of one man, God. But alas, I get ahead of myself. So let's begin first. We're gonna set the scene, okay? We are sending ourselves back to ancient, ancient Greece. And at this particular moment, you're actually at a wedding. And more than that, you are at a wedding of a mortal king named Peleus and the powerful sea nymph Thetis, who were arranged in marriage by none other than the god, King of Olympus himself, Zeus. If you remember from last week, Thetis is the sea goddess and Peleus, as we said, was a mortal. And because of this, she's pretty pissed about the marriage. And I mean, you can see why, right?

• 4:34Speaker 00

  She's this like super powerful deity in her own right, who could shapeshift and do all this cool stuff. And he's just... Like a guy. So this is not a love match. And it actually came about because Zeus and Poseidon were both fighting to be with Thetis. But when they found out about a prophecy which revealed her own son would take down his father, Zeus marry her off to this mortal man, right? Better, better him than Zeus. But back to the wedding. So this is a proper festivity with all of the Olympian gods present except for Eris, the primordial goddess of discord, who was not invited. So Eris gatecrashes this wedding and she sneaks in with a golden apple,

• 5:17Speaker 00

  AKA the fruit of temptation, which she throws down onto the banquet table. Now, you may be thinking, an apple? Really, you're so petty to like show up after not being invited. And then your big show is to present an apple rather than like flipping a table or, you know, swilling someone Geordie Shore style, to which I say, totally agree divas, you need to up the drama. But Eris isn't that stupid. You see, when the gods examined the apple, they found it contained an inscription, Calisti, which means to the fairest. So instantly Aphrodite, goddess of love, stands up and goes, oh, you know, I'm Aphrodite, like I'm so hot, of course, it's, you know, it's for me.

• 5:59Speaker 00

  After which Hera, queen of Olympus, who, let's be real, guys, we're all still scared of her from last week, goes, well, guys, I'm the queen. So like, obviously it's for me. After which Athena stands up and goes, yeah, you may be hot and, you know, you may be queen, but I'm smart and brave, so obviously it's mine. Which leads to a scene that almost shot by shot, mirrors the Tyra Banks versus Hannah Montana shoe showdown in the Hannah Montana movie. Real ones, no. Now seeing this, Zeus, who is meant to be, you know, the guy who keeps all the other Olympians in line, is like, oh, fucking hell, like eye roll, classic women, fighting over who's the best because, you know,

• 6:42Speaker 00

  of course, that's, that's, that's all we do, just frivolous, frivolous ladies. And he doesn't want a bar of it. So instead of sorting it out himself and actually doing his job, he goes over to the messenger god Hermes, he goes, come here. And he tells him to take these three goddesses down to Paris, the prince of Troy, a mortal, who will settle the debate once and for all. Now, everyone in this story must have been Libras, because once they appeared in front of Paris, even he couldn't decide who should get the apple. So the goddesses then decide to basically have like a competition, right? A version of Shark Tank. Who can pitch Paris the best offer? Again, remember, we said last week,

• 7:27Speaker 00

  ancient Greek religion is dependent on, you know, reciprocity, this idea of giving and receiving. So what do these goddesses have to offer the young Paris? Well, Athena goes first. Offering him wisdom and victory in battle could be very useful. Next, Hera offers him power. You know, who doesn't want that? And lastly, Aphrodite offers him the most beautiful woman in the world. Which, you know, Paris, of course, being a typical man, he picks the hot lady. So then who is this most fabulous fabled fair maiden then? Well, it turns out her name was Helen. Regarded as the biological child of Zeus and later,

• 8:09Speaker 00

  she was raised on earth as one of the daughters of Tyndareus, the Spartan king. Now, when we say she was the most beautiful woman on earth here, guys, this is not hyperbole. Tales of Helen's beauty have spanned the centuries, reaching far and wide throughout her youth, something which Tyndareus became increasingly paranoid about. For her line of potential suitors, most of whom, or some of the most powerful men in Greece, was never ending. Because of this, choosing Helen's match felt like an impossible decision for him after all. Like, this is genuinely justified, right? If one of the suitors, like, he rejects him, he goes, no, like Helen's not marrying you, and he has this huge fuck-off army,

• 8:53Speaker 00

  what's to then stop that guy invading Sparta or the state where Helen eventually becomes queen and just stealing her? Which, again, this is all justified. It did actually happen to Helen when she was 10 years old. She was like stolen as someone's bride and, you know, we don't have time for that. I can definitely do an episode for you guys on Helen of Troy. Um, but another time. We're trying to like, keep it, keep it surmised today on the war. But fear not, my divas, for this testosterone-surging conundrum had a savior, and his name was Odysseus, the king of Ithaca, who ruled over one of the island states in the Ionian Sea. Now, he proposed that all Helen suitors should swear an oath to defend both her marriage and, by extension, her husband,

• 9:37Speaker 00

  regardless of who, and wait for the real shocker here, guys. Helen herself chose to marry. Yeah, that's right, Helen actually did have a say, unlike, you know, most women always and forever, in who she married. And despite Odysseus's, like, fabulous solution here, she did not choose him, instead selecting Menelaus, brother of Agamemnon, the king of Mycenae, and commander-in-chief of the Greek forces. So a very, like, political savvy choice from Helen. And one which made Menelaus the king of Sparta, as Tyndareus abdicated after the marriage. Described as war-loving, he was not a man who liked to share,

• 10:21Speaker 00

  something which became very, very evident when Helen vanished into the night. Yes, you see, Aphrodite definitely held up her end of the bargain with Prince Paris of Troy, who snuck into Sparta to find Helen, and in no uncertain terms here, guys, abducted her. Now, if we listened to last week's episode about Hades and Persephone, it is a very similar situation, except in Helen's case, Aphrodite gets Eros, the god of love, desire, and sexual passion, to shoot Helen with an arrow, which makes her fall in love with Paris at first sight. So basically, Helen was roofied by an ancient god and goddess who promised her to another man, even though she's married and fully settled in Sparta,

• 11:05Speaker 00

  based on a choice she made herself.

• 11:09Speaker 00

  It is so fucked up and reinforced the fact that the Trojan War, right, and all the stories around it, which we'll get to sussing out the sources of that in a minute, are just deeply, deeply misogynistic. Right? Like, the very epicenter of this tale is the idea that Helen leaves the evil Manoleus, which, you know what, I'm sure by all accounts, you know, he was. But she does so for love, willingly. And with not only an understanding of the cataclysmic scale of the fallout from her actions, but a willingness to let all these men lose their lives for her.

• 11:49Speaker 00

  But that is just fucking horse shit. In this tale, Helen is depicted as this very, like, beautiful but super dumb woman, and that is just not the case.

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• 13:00Speaker 00

  Honestly, again, I know I bring her up like every episode, but it's like blaming Mary and Tornette for France's economic woes pre-revolution. As though she's like, looking over the state balance books and walking in and out of the treasury. Like, it's so obviously laced with prejudice and, again, just downright false. But, you know, I digress, let's get back to it. Helen is shot by Eros and as a result is, you know, roofied. She's in love with Paris, who takes her to his home, which is when Helen of Sparta becomes Helen of Troy. By which point, Menelaus, you know, has figured out his wife is gone and throws an absolute tante, convincing his brother to help lead a voyage to go and retrieve her. And the way he intended to do this was by evoking the oath of Tinteriaus.

• 13:45Speaker 00

  So remember the thing that Odysseus like came up with about protecting Helen's marriage? And therefore her husband, well, he should have just kept his mouth shut. Because Menelaus is now like, hello, knocking on the doors of the kings, lords, warriors, and like demigods of Greece, looking to cash in that chip. From Ithaca to Crete, Mycenae to Argos, Ftia to Salamis, and of course, Sparta itself. Menelaus and Agamemnon assembled a massive force of Greeks known as the Achaeans. Okay, so we have all of the Greeks going up against all of Troy. So if that's kind of the origins, right, and those are the key states involved, who are the key players?

• 14:31Speaker 00

  So, on the Greek side, as we said, we have Helen and Menelaus of Sparta, Agamemnon and his Mycenaean forces, Odysseus and the warriors of Ithaca, Ajax the Greater from Salamis, who was the great grandson of Zeus, and Nesta, the king of Pylos, who was old, so couldn't fight, but he was basically like Gandalf in The Lord of the Rings, you know, he's like a, he's like an old wise force. There's also, of course, many other smaller figures we'll get into later, but those are the big Greek like individuals for now, except for one.

• 15:05Speaker 00

  Oh yes, my divas, it is time to meet Greeks' greatest warrior, Achilles. So he is the son of Pelias and Thetis, so the human and nymph wedding we spoke about, you know, at the top, like with the apple conundrum, that's his mum and dad. Which makes Achilles a demigod, which, you know, all well and good, like Percy Jackson's a demigod. But why is Achilles so famous? Well, it actually comes down to his mum, who being immortal herself, wanted her son to also live on forever. And as such, basically like grabs him by the ankle, dips him in this like immortal river as a baby, which submerged his entire body except for his ankle, which she was holding.

• 15:48Speaker 00

  If you're watching on video, yes, I am pretending like I'm holding baby Achilles. Therefore, making Achilles' heel his one point of weakness. Fun fact about him too, is that he is widely interpreted by scholars as being queer and is famously thought to have had a romantic relationship with Patroclus, his cousin, who also fought with the Greeks. So that is kind of the Achaean side, right? The Greeks, but what about the Trojans? So, we already know about Paris, who was the son of King Priam and Queen Hecuba of Troy. But he did not have a normal princely upbringing. Instead, being cast out by his mother as a baby as she had a dream that his birth would bring the end of Troy.

• 16:33Speaker 00

  Lots of dreams of destruction and like oracles and visions throughout this. So as a result of this, you know, he's kind of left for dead on a mountain, but this shepherd finds him and feels bad for him, so he raises him. Totally unknown that Paris was a prince and also his mum and dad, like the actual king and queen, have no idea that he's alive, until he wins a series of athletic competitions at a Trojan festival, which reveals his identity and kind of gets him welcomed back into the fold. While Paris may have been athletic, his skills as a warrior were mediocre, especially in comparison to his big brother Hector. Hector the hottie is how I like to think about him. Now, he was heir to Troy's throne and a fearsome warrior who most describe as a good man who fought with honour.

• 17:18Speaker 00

  Next, we have their dad, King Priam, who, hold on to your hats here, people, apparently had upwards of fifty children, which included a few daughters, most notably Cassandra, the priestess of Apollo, who could tell the future, and we will get to that later. Now, during the war, Priam was an old man, but he was actually kind of nice and didn't blame Helen for leaving her husband and bringing, you know, war to his shores, because, you know, after all, it wasn't her fault. Then lastly, on the Trojans' side, we have to mention Aeneas. Now, he was the son of Aphrodite and was largely considered to be the second-best warrior for the Trojans after Hector, something which he did not like much, which, according to later tradition, saw him betray the Trojans.

• 18:03Speaker 00

  But, again, we're all getting ahead of ourselves here because we still have to talk about the gods themselves. I mean, come on, divas. You didn't think the gods and goddesses, who really are to blame for this whole thing, were just gonna butt out now? Course not. Instead, they actually took opposing sides, which made the war all the more bloody. Or, at least, that's according to the Iliad, the epic poem written by Homer around the 8th century BCE, which details the events of the Trojan War, or, you know, the lead-up to and last year of the war, at least. Now, we will get into a deeper analysis of Homer and the Iliad as a historical source at the end, but I do want to mention now

• 18:47Speaker 00

  that he wrote the Iliad four hundred years after the events of the Trojan War are meant to take place. But still, for now, guys, we are all going to just treat what, you know, he says in the Iliad, as truth, and bite our tongues on various nonsensical matters, including the fact that during the war, several of the gods are meant to have, like, come down to earth to intervene. With Hera, Poseidon, Hephaestus, and Athena favouring the Greeks, meanwhile Aphrodite, Apollo, and Ares took the side of the Trojans. So those are the key players. Now, let's go to war. So at this point, the Greeks gathered themselves into an armada consisting of over a thousand ships and attempted to set sail for Troy across the Aegean Sea.

• 19:31Speaker 00

  However, there was a problem. Agamemnon had offended the goddess Artemis, who fucked up the winds to prevent the fleet from setting sail, which meant that before setting out for war, he had to sacrifice his own daughter. And I do mean sacrifice in the literal spilling of blood sense. So from the beginning, literally even before they have left for Troy, the Greeks are spilling innocent female blood. But with her sacrifice, Artemis fixed the winds and the armada sets off, finally arriving at the ancient city of Troy a few weeks later. Now, initially, upon their landing, the soldiers were a bit hesitant to disembark because, guess what?

• 20:13Speaker 00

  Another prophecy said that the first man to get out would be the first to die. One brave soul, Protesalus, decided he didn't care and stepped ashore. But he really should have cared because guess what? He was the first to die when the Trojans, who obviously had had Helen for quite some time and were like expecting, you know, war, met the arriving forces on the beaches, where a battle broke out until eventually King Priam withdrew his troops back to the city. So the Greeks have landed and very quickly realised they could not simply march on Troy and expect this normal kind of swift victory that they'd had. But the city actually stood several kilometres inland on elevated ground,

• 20:54Speaker 00

  protected by massive limestone walls that according to mythology, had been built generations earlier by Apollo and Poseidon to keep enemies out. Now, we still don't know, like much of this story, whether the walls were literally divine or simply the finest fortifications of the late Bronze Age. But regardless of that, the fact remained. Troy could not be stormed in a single assault. So, what do the Greeks do? They dig in, establishing an enormous fortified camp along the shoreline, which is pretty much where they stayed for the next decade. Yeah. Sorry, guys, if you're expecting, like, you know,

• 21:37Speaker 00

  a couple of month-long, action-packed campaign that's easy to follow and progresses kind of day by day, that ain't what you're getting here. This was a long, drawn-out siege, rather than a bloody battle. So we're gonna keep to a timeline across the ten years and cover all the parts that matters, because literally, otherwise, we'd be here for ten fucking years. So we're gonna look at the major deaths, the battle tactics, and, you know, obviously, the end result. So these first few years, the Greeks dig in, like we said, and begin raiding settlements and villages around the city to cut Troy off from its resources, which is when Achilles really starts to flex his skills as a great warrior. Ancient tradition, particularly the lost epic Cypria,

• 22:22Speaker 00

  credits him with capturing twenty-three cities during the first nine years of the war, which made him the spearhead of the Greek offensive and the nightmare of the Trojans. And I think it's important to note this here, because while, you know, the modern lens, especially through cinema, often portrays the Trojan War as these kind of like heroic duels between famed champions, much of the actual conflict was in devastating raids on ordinary communities, with homes being looted, temples stripped of valuable offerings, and women and children enslaved. Which brings us to Bruceus. Now, after sacking the city of Launursus,

• 23:05Speaker 00

  Achilles was awarded Bruceus, a noblewoman allied with King Priam and the princes of Troy, as a war prize. Yeah, you know, like a little prezi, because, you know, humans are gifts.

• 23:18Speaker 00

  But that's actually not necessarily how Achilles viewed her. With Homer telling us that he loved her, quote, "from his heart", despite having been, you know, essentially gifted her. Which was commonplace during this time with Agamemnon also taking a young noblewoman named Chrysaeus for his own spoils. Something which would ultimately trigger the opening events of the Iliad. Because Chrysaeus was the daughter of a respected priest of Apollo, who struck down the Greek forces with a plague. In response to this, Agamemnon begrudgingly surrendered Chrysaeus. But not wanting to be without a prize, he takes Bresas from Achilles. This, you know, as you can imagine, pisses off the famed demigod,

• 24:03Speaker 00

  who flat out vows he will stop fighting for the cause. Appealing to his mother Phatus, the nymph, to convince Zeus to keep the Trojans killing. The Greeks, so like a full 180 against his own army? Basically because Agamemnon took his girl. Like, these men, are we kidding? I cannot deal with how many lives are lost because they feel entitled to these women. It is fucking insane. Anyway, according to Homer, Zeus, who was supposed to be neutral in this war, but, you know, for whatever reason, agreed to kind of do this for Achilles, helps slaughter the Greeks.

• 24:47Speaker 00

  Like, really properly slaughter them. As such, the Trojans take full advantage of this. And, you know, Achilles is just kind of sulking in his tent during all of this time, which is when the first big face-off goes down. So, if you are like me, and you live for the drama, right? The tea, the confrontation, this moment, this pinnacle.

• 25:13Speaker 00

  Then you've been waiting for Menelaus and Paris to meet? Something which does eventually happen in the 10th year of the war. So what goes on then? How does this play out? Well, the scene is told to us in book three of the Iliad and goes something like this. Menelaus and Paris decided that single combat would get all of this sorted, right? Very Jon Snow kind of philosophy here. With the two men agreeing to duel on the basis that the winner would get Helen, who is watching from the walls with the Trojan elders and King Priam. Now, despite Menelaus nor Paris being the greatest of warriors, Menelaus is absolutely whooping the young prince's arse during this,

• 25:55Speaker 00

  dragging him by his helmet until Aphrodite steps in, snatching Paris up and drawing him into the clouds, leaving this duel undecided, which let me just say, if I were a spectator here, I'd be asking for a fucking refund, okay? I want a Gossip Girl Thanksgiving episode level spectacle? And I get a tie? Seriously. Like, give me some answers here. Let's end this war. 10 years, it's too long. But it doesn't end. It actually goes up a notch for at the urging of Athena, a Trojan archer shoots Menelaus from the wall, wounding him and reigniting the fight, which resulted in the deaths of many Greeks. All the while, again, Achilles is just off in his tent crying to the Perseus,

• 26:39Speaker 00

  something he would later regret. Because one of the dead bodies that came out of the conflict was that of Patroclus. Now, we briefly mentioned him before, but he was Achilles' closest confidant, cousin and potential lover, who was killed by none other than Hector, who mistook him for Achilles as he had been wearing the demigod's armour, which FYI is no ordinary armour here. It was gifted to Achilles by Hephaestus, the divine blacksmith, and had been, you know, taken off Patroclus' body by Hector, who saw it as the ultimate trophy, although he soon realised when he's taken the helmet off. Fuck, that's not Achilles, but you know, he didn't really care. And instead, kept the armour, which the Greeks saw as a profound humiliation.

• 27:24Speaker 00

  And Achilles took very, very personally. He is, in no uncertain terms here, fucking fuming. And rejoins the cause with his mother getting her phasus to forge Achilles an entirely new suit of armour, the description of which occupies almost all of Book 18 in the Iliad, and is one of the most celebrated passages in ancient literature. So, I thought, because we're the, we're the podcast for the gals, you know? Let's do a bit of a fit check, right? What's the deal with this faint armour? So first we have Thetis's appeal to her phasus, which she tells him saying, quote, "My son is doomed to die young and I cannot help him.

• 28:06Speaker 00

  Therefore, I have come to you if perhaps that you will be willing to make him a shield and helmet, a pair of goodly greaves fitted with ankle clasps and a breastplate." So we are getting a full armour set, plus a helmet and a shield here. Of the shield, which was so incredibly impressive, like definitely the armour's cute, but like this is the centerpiece of it all. Homer tells us that it is made to represent the whole world, with celestial images depicting humans, the gods, the earth, the seas, the heavens and more. Basically, a big, you know, complete picture of the cosmos on this huge shield, which is described as a massive five-layered work of metal and leather.

• 28:45Speaker 00

  As for the armour, Homer says it is, quote, "bright as blazing fire, so no man could look upon it", which is all given to Thetis, who, quote, "darted down from high Olympus like a falcon bearing the splendid armour for Achilles." So Achilles is not only, by this point, all fired up and furious by the death of Patroclus, but also decked out with this fancy pants new armour. And as such, sets off, driving the Trojans inside the walls of Troy, which is when he comes face to face with Hector. Okay, I'm liking it, lots of confrontation, this is what we need. Again, imagine waiting nine years for all of this, like, one-on-one drama to unfold.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  I would not have the patience, I'd have gone home. Now- This is the point. For those of you who have seen 2004's Troy with Eric Banner and Brad Pitt, you will know this scene as the real pinnacle of the film, right? And in it, Hector kind of emerges from the gates of Troy very bravely, very honorably, he's alone, to face off against Achilles, saying he had truly thought Patroclus was Achilles, and that whoever shall die between them will be treated with respect and given the relevant funeral proceedings. But that is not what happened.

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• 31:05Speaker 00

  You see, in the Elliot, Hector was indeed the only man brave enough, or more so stupid enough, really, to meet an enraged Achilles. But once he saw him, he turned and ran. So much so that Achilles chased him around the Citadel three times until Hector, probably exhausted from all this running, finally agreed to fight him. After this, it was over pretty quickly, with Achilles killing Hector, stripping him of his old armor, tying his feet behind his chariot, and then driving him around the city. This is like, obviously brutal in any case. But it doesn't just end there, because Achilles is so fucking mad, he keeps doing this for 12 days, leaving the Trojans and their king devastated,

• 31:50Speaker 00

  as it meant Hector would wander the underworld, never being at peace.

• 31:56Speaker 00

  So this guy's like, really is the proper rage of Achilles on full display here. And he's ultimately considered so barbarous that even the gods become divided on how to proceed. With Apollo declaring that, quote, Achilles has lost all pity. Meanwhile, Hera, Athena and Poseidon, you know, all kind of think it's fair game. They still hate Troy from the business with the apple. So it is now, only when Hector's been like dragged around 12 times and all the gods are fighting, that Zeus finally decides to do his fucking job. Yeah? I honestly cannot with this man. Like, I couldn't dislike Zeus more if I tried. So he decides after a decade, right to step in. And he tells Thetis that she must speak to her son Achilles and get him to accept a ransom.

• 32:42Speaker 00

  Then he goes to the goddess Iris and tells her to go and speak with King Priam, instructing him to go to the Greek camp with money, which is where the film links back up with the text. Okay, guys, I just paused to check about the Priam, Priam pronunciation. Some sources say Priam, some say Priam. So I'm just gonna keep saying Priam, okay? But you can feel free to call in whatever you want. Where were we? Okay. Hector's dead, the gods are intervening. This is a huge point in the story of the Trojan War. Because it is one of those rare moments where both sides really do recognize each other's humanity. And most importantly, like, the gods behave as they actually should.

• 33:24Speaker 00

  So, as we said, Iris goes and speaks to Priam. I'm, I'm like wigging myself out now. Priam. And tells him to trust Zeus will protect him in bringing Hector's body back. But Hecuba, his wife begs him not to go. She believes that he too will be killed. So Priam prays to Zeus for a sign that he will be safe. After which, at least according to Homer, a magnificent eagle appears on his right. Satisfied that Zeus is gonna, you know, grant him protection, this is a sign. Priam then sets off, guided by Hermes, who disguises himself as a young soldier, and passes through the Greek camp, walking directly into Achilles' tent,

• 34:07Speaker 00

  where he kneels before him and, as Homer tells us, quote, kissed the hand that had slain so many of his sons. Achilles, of course, is astonished by this. You know, he's slightly taken aback. This, this, this enemy king has like snuck in and he's in his, in his tent, right? Which is when Priam delivers one of the most famous speeches in antiquity. Appealing to Achilles directly, he tells him, quote, "I have endured what no other mortal on earth has ever done before. I put to my lips the hands of the man who killed my son." This act and Priam's willingness to die for the simple honour of burying his son breaks through Achilles's rage, and he himself starts crying before telling Priam, "Your son is given back",

• 34:51Speaker 00

  ordering for Hector's body to be washed and Priam to be fed before calling a 12-day truce for Hector's funeral procession. This would ultimately be the last truce before the final battle. This last moment of reflection of compassion and, and most importantly here, like I said, of humanity. After that, Priam places Hector's body on a wagon and takes him back to the city escorted yet again by Hermes, which is where the Iliad ends with the line, quote, "Such were the funeral rites of Hector, tamer of horses", which really does reveal the truth about the Iliad here, right? This isn't a source or a historical retelling of the Trojan War as a military campaign, right?

• 35:37Speaker 00

  But rather, it is the story of the wrath of Achilles, which Homer all but tells us in the very first line, saying, quote, "Sing goddess the anger of Achilles", and then, you know, kind of ending here with the death of Hector, which becomes this kind of moral turning point for Achilles with Priam's pain breaking his fury. Which of course then, guys, leaves the big question remaining. What the fuck happened next? And I am with you on this, like, why write, Homer, I'm speaking to you directly, why write the story of this war without telling us the end result? Like, it's, it's just stupid. Luckily for us though, the Iliad is not the only source on the Trojan War.

• 36:20Speaker 00

  Instead, we have various, you know, other things. There's pottery, there's weaponry, which depicts the events after Hector's death, alongside parts of other ancient poems now referred to as the epic cycle, which tell us more. So what do we think happened after, you know, this kind of funeral rites of Hector, this, this kind of 12-day truce is over?

• 36:41Speaker 00

  Well, basically Achilles goes on another killing spree. Yeah, so it kind of turns out that, um, you know, all this moral contemplation over Hector's death may have made him stop, like, desecrating bodies, but it doesn't mean he stops killing people. The first of whom is Penthesilea, queen of the Amazons, who arrives with an army of female warriors to aid Troy. Described as one of the greatest fighters of the age, she kills numerous Greeks before facing Achilles in single combat. He kills her after a bloody fight before having yet another pang of guilt, but not over the fact he'd killed her, but rather the fact she was hot and he killed her. In this tradition, it is said that after defeating Penthesilea, Achilles removed her

• 37:26Speaker 00

  helmet and began weeping after seeing how beautiful she was, something which the Greek soldier Thersites mocked Achilles for, resulting in his own death, which Achilles then had to go this, like, you know, ritual purification for because it's bad juju to kill a fellow Greek and return to battle. Then, according to another source here, Troy's greatest ally finally arrives. Now, his name is Memnon, not to be confused with Agamemnon, and he's the king of Ethiopia, who arrives with this magnificent army and, you know, thanks to his own demigod status, he's considered an almost equal for Achilles in strength. This is going to be Troy's kind of great hope, but that wouldn't be the case because guess what? Achilles also kills him.

• 38:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, this guy's just really good at killing. So it ultimately at this point genuinely seems like no one and no thing can kill this motherfucker. Right, everyone? He faces off with Amazonian queens, demigod Ethiopian kings, you know, are all dying at the end of his blade, but even Achilles has a weak spot. Remember when he was born and his mum dips him in the river to make him immortal except for his ankle which she's holding him by? Well, it turns out this would be his downfall. Having murdered all their allies, Achilles and the Greeks drove the Trojans back towards the city where Paris, the OG abductor, was waiting with a bow and arrow which he fires

• 38:55Speaker 00

  towards Achilles' ankle, having been told this nifty little kind of weak spot by Aphrodite. Now by itself, Paris' shot would probably not have killed Achilles, but he wasn't alone. Instead, Apollo, sick of all of Achilles' violence, helps guide the arrow to its mark, successfully embedding it into the one mortal part of his body. Although, we should note here, Homer never mentions like an Achilles' heel or a kind of mortal weakness, but you know, this idea kind of comes later on, while these earlier sources just say Achilles dies by the arrow because Apollo directed the shot.

• 39:36Speaker 00

  So finally, Achilles, the greatest warrior in Greek history, the demi-god, is dead, right in front of the walls of Troy where he himself had killed Hector, the two men really kind of mirroring each other in this moment. Right away, the Greeks are horrified, but they rally with Ajax the Great defending his corbs while Odysseus fights off Trojan attackers as his body is dragged back to the Greek camp where tensions break out amongst the men who without their great warrior aren't sure how to proceed. You can't really blame them here, guys. After all, let us remember, this war's been going on for 10 years with very little progress.

• 40:16Speaker 00

  And unfortunately for the Greeks, the blows keep coming, for it's time to decide who gets Achilles' divine armour. Now, the two candidates here are Ajax the Great, who argues that he saved Achilles' body through physical strength, and Odysseus, who believes that his intelligence and leadership have saved the Greek army on multiple occasions now. For this reason, the armour is given to Odysseus, which drives Ajax into madness, literal like psychosis, helped on by a bout of paranoia by Athena, which makes him slaughter livestock believing they are his rivals. When he then regains his senses, he falls upon his own sword and dies from the dishonour.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  So within a few weeks here, guys, the Greeks have lost Achilles and Ajax and are now desperate. Oh, also like FYI, Paris is killed throughout this time, which makes the Trojans all the more angry. And now the Greeks like are fucking desperate for this win, right? Everybody's just rabid at this point. The kind of desperate where even the most harebrained idea has to be considered. And for this, Odysseus goes,

• 41:29Speaker 00

  well, you know, what if we like take all this wood lying around, right? There's all this like ruined wood here and we build a giant hollowed out horse, which we then put inside of the walls of Troy. We hide inside, night falls and we all jump out and fuck shit up. What do you guys think? Now, we're listening today, though, you know, what the fuck kind of magic mushrooms are you on? But Agamemnon loved this idea. And so the horse was built by a pious, a skilled carpenter, who ancient writers consistently identifies the craftsman responsible for its construction. And let me tell you, divas, this thing was fucking enormous, right?

• 42:12Speaker 00

  It was large enough to conceal around estimates, say 30 to 50 Greek warriors. So really, really big. And this plan is all in motion, but the key thing is the Trojans have to believe the Greeks and their armada have left, right? This, this horse is like a gift. So Agamemnon and the rest of the fleet all board their ships and sail behind the nearby island of Tenidos to hide, while one Greek soldier named Sinon stayed behind, having himself captured and telling Priam and the Trojans, they, you know, had made this horse in reverence to Athena, who they'd pissed off, all fake. And as such, the horse was sacred, with Sinon claiming that if the Trojans destroyed it, they too would offend the goddess.

• 42:55Speaker 00

  And this is like when red flags should, you know, be considered. While some, including Priam's daughter Cassandra, distrusted the gift and tried to warn the Trojans, they refused to listen. Instead, pulling the giant horse into the city amid singing, feasting and sacrifice. So Odysseus, right, he's pulled this thing off. And after darkness fell, Sinon emerged, released the Greek warriors inside, and lit a signal fire for Agamemnon, who returned with the Greek fleet to take the city.

• 43:28Speaker 00

  What then followed was one of the bloodiest episodes in Greek history, guys. Spreading throughout the city, the Greeks are brutal. They set buildings alight, they kill anyone who resisted. Priam, right, the king is slain, Menelaus found Helen, he's about to kill her, but he sees her beauty and then he kind of realises he can't, so grabs her and takes her back. Cassandra, right, she's dragged out of the temple. Hector's young son is thrown from the walls of Troy to prevent him from one day avenging his family. Meanwhile, his mum and grandmum are all taken captive. And by dawnbreak, the greatest city of the Bronze Age lay in ruins and the Greeks had won.

• 44:14Speaker 00

  So that's the end of the Trojan War conflict. And while we're going to deep dive what happened next, kind of next week in The Odyssey, which is the sequel, we kind of know Odysseus, Helen, Agamemnon, Menelaus, Hector's wife, you know, they're, they're all alive and we will, like I said, go through what happens uh next week to them.

• 44:35Speaker 00

  So that's the conflict, right? But the big question, the one thing we've all been biting our tongue not to bring up is, is the Trojan War real? Right? Big wooden horses, demigods, real gods, oracles, Helen, magical arrows? Did any of this actually happen? So let's put on our Sherlock Holmes hat, okay? And first look at the facts, starting with Homer himself. Now, the thing to note about Homer, above all else, is that he is not a historian and rather a poet slash writer living in Athens around the 8th century BCE, which means that by the time he's writing about the Trojan War,

• 45:20Speaker 00

  400 years have passed from the 1200 to 1250 BCE date. So that's like a long period of time, right? Where stories can be changed and exaggerated and forgotten. Or in probably most cases, he just made up, which author Peter Jones points out would be impossible not to happen because oral history was Homer's primary source. Herodotus, largely dubbed the father of history, whose work in the 5th century BCE is considered the first historical work, also makes a really good point about the reality behind the Iliad, saying that no king in real life would ever allow his city to be sacked and his children killed because his wayward son came home with a foreign

• 46:05Speaker 00

  woman. Which, guys, let's be so fucking for real, is 1,000% true. He would have kicked them both to the curb. Plus, who can forget, the start of the war is because Zeus was too lazy to judge a beauty contest between three goddesses, and the central figure of the narrative here is Achilles, a demigod who dies by being shot with a magical arrow in the ankle.

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• 47:29Speaker 00

  Now, if you're a follower of ancient Greek religion, like, I don't want to diss your gods here, but I think the vast majority of us look at the use of the divine in the Iliad as, one, a tool to up the ante, and, two, something to explore themes of fate, mortality, empathy, and ultimately, the cost of anger, rather than anything that's based in reality. Which leads us to believe that Homer used the story of the Trojan War in the Iliad as a device to make philosophical inquiry not to recount history, which is something we saw a couple of weeks back when we were talking about Plato and Atlantis, right? Plato's not a historian and most likely told the tale of Atlantis

• 48:12Speaker 00

  to make similar commentary around the fall of man. So this is something that is common kind of for the ancient world. But, because there's always a but when doing proper historical inquiry, guys, much like the Atlantis example, just because the Trojan War may be used by Homer as a device doesn't mean it wasn't based on a real conflict. So what evidence, what fact, what archaeology do we then have that can help us answer the question, did the Trojan War happen? Well, first, let's start with the big one, right? The easiest way to answer this question is to find evidence of the city of Troy itself, right? The, the, the structures. So what do we know about it then?

• 48:58Speaker 00

  Well, ancient Troy was believed to be located in an area called the Troad in the northwest corner of modern day Turkey, a spot which was close to the Dardanelles, making it perfect for both trade and defence. It was also a fertile land and incredibly beautiful, something which has continued to attract travellers and pilgrims who want to admire the landscape and of course, try and walk in the footsteps of the Trojan heroes. But, by the time the field of archaeology began to take shape in the 19th century, many were sceptical of ever finding this city. Frank Calvert, however, was not one of these people. Having accompanied his brother Frederick on a diplomatic mission to the northwest Anatolian region of Chenakale,

• 49:44Speaker 00

  Frank noticed similarities to what Homer described as Agamemnon's Greek encampment in the mouth of the Scamander River. And it is here that he met journalist and geologist Charles McLaren. Determined to find the Trojan city, the pair launched an investigation into claims made by locals that ancient Troy might have stood on one of the surrounding hilltops around this river. And after taking a detailed topographical study of the area, they found a 32 metre mound known as Sisalik, the Turkish word for fortress, which matched this theory.

• 50:21Speaker 00

  So, in 1847, Calvert bought Hesarlek, but before he could explore any further, the Crimean War broke out, which paused his efforts and put a big dent in the bank account. Which is when wealthy German businessman and amateur archaeologist Heinrich Schliemann came into the picture. At Calvin's invitation, Schliemann visited Hesarlek in 1868, and decided to excavate, tearing massive trenches all the way down the base of the hill, where he uncovered a hoard of precious artefacts, jewellery and metalwork, including two diatoms dubbed "the jewels of Helen", which Schliemann took full credit for, and announces to the world,

• 51:03Speaker 00

  "he's, you know, found Troy and the treasures of its king, Priam." According to his published accounts of the find, he noticed something glinting in the excavation trench, and fearing the Ottoman officials or workmen present might interfere, he sent them home for the day while his wife Sophia carefully removed the treasure, wrapping them in her shawl and secretly carrying it all away, which, you know, very dramatic, right, very secretive and fantastical, but just wasn't true. In fact, Sophia wasn't even there, instead being in Athens, attending to family members after her father's death. Which left the question, if he'd lied about that, did he lie about the treasure being Priam's and the city being Troy?

• 51:49Speaker 00

  Well, yes, but also no.

• 51:53Speaker 00

  Modern archaeology today has shown that the treasure came from the layer of Hesarlek known as Troy II, a settlement dated to roughly 2500 to 2300 BCE, which means it cannot belong to the Trojan War era, as this was set around 1200 to 1250 BCE. So his find was not Priam's gold, it was actually nearly a thousand years older. So like, still incredible, right, but, but not what he said it was. So what about the city then? Well, it is hard to know for certain, but modern archaeologists say that yes, Schliemann did discover the real ancient city of Troy. But it's kind of complicated, so let's break it down.

• 52:33Speaker 00

  Lesley Filton and Alexander Villing, curators at the British Museum, believe Troy was first settled in the early Bronze Age, right? So around 3000 BCE. So while the war is, like we said, 1200, 1250, the city predates that by a lot. So much so, that this early version of Troy even predates the construction of the first Egyptian pyramids in 2780 BCE. So we are talking about like proper ancient history, right? And this layer is known as Troy I. Now, as is the case with all ancient cities, fires, earthquakes, battles, new development, right? Have caused rebuilding over existing structures, like Rome, for

• 53:18Speaker 00

  example, whenever they, you know, try and put a new building or subway or something, they've got to stop because they find a temple or mosaics or whatever it is. It's the same thing with Troy. And when Schliemann was digging frantically, looking for the Trojan War layer and, you know, the gold, he blasts this big hole through all of these different layers that are stacked on top of each other, which made it really hard to determine the various eras, but we have now managed to do so with modern technology. So, as I said, early Bronze Age, where, you know, Troy is just this kind of small but flourishing village, is Troy I. Then we have the mid Bronze Age, around 2550, 2300 BCE, where it's kind of

• 54:00Speaker 00

  this larger citadel, um, it's built behind these kind of walls. Again, this is Troy II, where Schliemann found the treasure horn. Then we have Troy III, which is dated to 2300 to 2200 BCE, which tells us, at some point during those hundred years, the city was burned and rebuilt. Then we have Troy IV, another rebuilding phase, which leads to Troy V, where prosperity begins to return to the region and the city expands. And then...

• 54:30Speaker 00

  We have Troy VI from 1750 to 1300 BCE. By which stage Troy is a huge Bronze Age city. Okay, it is fit out with these massive limestone defensive walls, they're up to eight metres high, it's got towers and gateways and citadels, you name it. This layer of Hysalic reflects the scale and stature of the city that Homer wrote about. So from this evidence, the real definitive archaeological proof, we know that Troy was a real city and there are parallels with what Homer says about it. So how do we then confirm the next stage of that, right? That a war actually happened?

• 55:15Speaker 00

  Well, for that, we go to the next layer. So Troy VII A, which is dated to around 1250 BCE, right? Our bingo kind of year for the Trojan War, where we do see evidence of some kind of disaster happening around this time. Whether it was natural, like an earthquake, or man-made, like a war, the result was inhabitants rebuilding directly on the ruins of Troy VI, where people squeezed, you know, smaller houses into available spaces. We also have large storage jars hidden under floors, which suggest kind of food shortages. There's human skeletons within destruction layers, there is damaged offensive walls,

• 55:54Speaker 00

  and there are arrow heads everywhere, all of which suggests the city was preparing for siege, which many historians see as a striking parallel to Homer's account. Something that becomes even clearer if we look at Troy VII B, so the next layer, which reveals new inhabitants to the city with different style pottery, architectural techniques, and genetic remains, all of which point to the city's inhabitants in Troy VI and Troy VII A, either being wiped out or just leaving. So again, the archaeology tells us some kind of conflict or disaster has happened to late Bronze Age Troy. So there's a tick, right? Troy is real, a conflict happened there.

• 56:39Speaker 00

  But carrying on our Sherlock Holmes investigation here, how do we then know that this war, right? The evidence from this conflict was with the Greeks? Well, for this, we look at Troy through a different light as part of the Hittite Empire of Anatolia, which was the larger region around the city, right? So if you look at like Rome, the city versus Rome, the empire. Here, we have a pretty invaluable source known as the Hittite tablets, which make mention of the Hittite Empire fighting for the people ruled by Alexandros. Now Alexandros is another name for Prince Paris. So we're already kind of starting to connect the dots here, but let's be real, we're still not convinced.

• 57:22Speaker 00

  So let's look at our next source, which is the Treaty of Alexandu, which notes that the Hittites would ensure allied troops for the conflict in a timely manner in exchange for protection against the Mycenae. So again, we are seeing some like real proper credence here to the idea that the people of Troy and its surrounding regions fought against, if not all of Greece, like I think we can probably say that's an exaggeration, right? If not all of Greece, at least the Mycenae. Which leads us to the last question that needs to be answered. If the city of Troy is real and the conflict did happen, then did it go down like Homer tells us?

• 58:05Speaker 00

  The answer to which is almost certainly no. Again, even if we strike out the divine here by which, you know, Helen is hit by a love arrow, Achilles is a demigod, Aphrodite's being a menace and kind of more, we're still left with the idea that all of the leaders of the Greek states upped and left their homes and their families and their people and went to war with Troy over a woman.

• 58:31Speaker 00

  I mean, you just have to say Helen of Troy and the one thing people know, the most famous quote from the whole entire saga is that she had the face that launched a thousand ships. Which, you know, is amazing storytelling. It's why we remember it now. But even if she were Daenerys, or Megan Fox, or the living embodiment of Aphrodite herself, these kings and lords and chiefs would not have gone to war over her. And more than that, guys, she wasn't even fucking real. Yeah, there is zero historical evidence to suggest Helen of Sparta was a real, living, breathing woman, with historian Dr. Bethany Hughes telling us that Homer likely created her off the back of stories

• 59:16Speaker 00

  where the infidelity of other high-ranking women during the Bronze Age sparked threats of war between states. So basically, Homer has created a, you know, semi-divine woman who was so beautiful and sexualized and irresistible because he heard some rumors about ancient affairs and thought, "That's a good story." And the reason he thought that is because it is the story, right? Old as time, repeated throughout the centuries, the banner call of men's rights groups and incels alike. Man's one great weakness is sex.

• 59:58Speaker 00

  I mean, come on. Paris couldn't help himself more than that, actually. Aphrodite, right? The living embodiment of pleasure and temptation told Paris that Helen belonged to him. He's not abducting her, he's just claiming what's his. And that is something that all of those other Greek kings and lords and people reading the Iliad understand. Because at the end of the day, female sexuality and Helen as this kind of living embodiment of that is their greatest weakness and therefore the greatest danger to peace. Again, Bethany Hughes backs this up, saying that, quote, "Homer was not composing a history but a myth,

• 1:00:40Speaker 00

  which didn't mean pure fantasy, rather things that were spoken of over time, which in the case of Helen and, you know, the danger her sexuality presents, it's all just a byproduct of patriarchy, which existed long before Homer, making it relevant for him to create her as a central figure in his story. Because ultimately, it was something that people of his time understood. And the scary reality today is that it's still very relevant now.

• 1:01:13Speaker 00

  As for the rest of the conflict, we know from the archaeological evidence, there was a war or disaster which took down the great city of Troy. Plus, let's be honest here, right? Oral tradition, while it can't be trusted, does always come from somewhere. So, wouldn't it then make sense then? Again, this is my Sherlock, you know, delivery for you guys. The case is closed. Doesn't it make sense that Homer's heard one of these tales of the great war at Troy? Added, you know, a bit of GST, right? By bringing in, you know, all of the Greek forces, not just the Mycenians, and demigods and real gods for this bit of, you know, extra dramatic flair? Plus, just on logistics here for a minute. This war was said to go for 10 years, which Dr. Bettany Hughes also says seems to be from the archaeology total nonsense.

• 1:01:58Speaker 00

  Daisy Dunn, a British classicist, also says that a war lasting 10 years when the citadel was so compact is highly, highly unlikely. So again, some fabulous kind of mayday's and GST being added here. Which leaves the last fun question to answer. I actually like this one. The Trojan Horse. Right? The brilliant idea of Odysseus to smuggle the Greeks into the city wasn't real. Well, Cornell University says most scholars nowadays believe the Trojan Horse may have existed as a siege weapon, which were basically these huge wooden structures which could be slammed against the fortification. If you've seen Gladiator 2, the kind of opening sequence is a perfect example of this. But things get a bit more complicated when we think of the horse being used in the way

• 1:02:42Speaker 00

  Homer tells us to conceal and transport men. First of all, guys, there is no doubt here, like it doesn't even come into the equation, that the Greeks were capable of making the horse. In fact, skilled woodwork was one of their greatest strengths, producing large seagoing ships capable of crossing the Aegean, complex chariots and massive timber-roofed palaces at Mycenae, Terns and Pylos, all of which proved their capabilities. So if that's not the issue, then it has to be size, right? After all, the Trojan Horse is estimated to be around 8 to 10 metres high and 6 to 8 metres long in order to fit the 30 to 50 men inside. So was this possible? Again, yes.

• 1:03:25Speaker 00

  By 1250 BCE, the Greeks were already building ships around 25 to 35 metres long, making the horse significantly smaller than one of their largest ships.

• 1:03:36Speaker 00

  So if the challenge isn't construction, then what is it? Well, it ultimately comes down to what any good plan kind of rests on, right? Logistics. I mean, think about it. Firstly, how are you going to design the horse? So the, call it forty-ish men inside, don't crash each other. And then, how are you going to accommodate for heat? Lack of oxygen, thirst, muscle cramping? And, you know, like accidental noise, that's what I always think. I'm like, how are these guys staying quiet? But playing devil's advocate here, let's just say you do all of that, right? You still then have to move this thing into the city.

• 1:04:14Speaker 00

  After all, even conservatively, historians estimate a timber structure of that size could easily weigh ten to twenty tonnes or more, depending on its design. So can you get it inside? Well, technically, yes. I mean, the Egyptians transported much larger stone blocks for the pyramids centuries earlier. But this isn't Egypt with a booming population and skilled workers. This is Troy, ravaged by war and death. And this kind of task would still require hundreds of people pulling simultaneously with rollers and ropes. And that's before you get to the city gates, which archaeological evidence of Troy VI and VII A tell us they were only large enough for carts and wagons.

• 1:04:57Speaker 00

  And while, yes, Virgil does tell us the Trojans got the horse inside by breaking down parts of the wall, that is a hell of a thing to bet on. Because it would essentially require, like, the Trojans to believe, one, the Greeks had truly departed. Two, ignore or dismiss suspicion and all these red flags by people like Cassandra and others, which we already spoke about. Three, bring an enormous object into the city by breaking down their, their walls or things that defended them. Four, leave it unguarded overnight. And five, kind of fail to detect, you know, the soldiers inside who, again, heat, oxygen, design, like, they, they, they can't be staying quiet.

• 1:05:40Speaker 00

  So while it may be physically possible for the Trojan Horse to have been built and used as Homer describes, it requires an almost divine sequence of pretty implausible events to happen, one after the other. And even though we have extremely old depictions of the Trojan Horse, like on the famous Mykonos Bar, dated to around 675 BCE, these pieces merely confirm the legends, which, you know, were already buzzing around the Archaic period, rather than any factual event. So it was wonderful, as the Trojan Horse idea is, most archaeologists and ancient historians agree, that it's more likely the Greeks built a much smaller horse as a religious offering,

• 1:06:23Speaker 00

  or built a large wooden structure as a battering ram, rather than a disguise for Troy's ultimate fall, as Odysseus planned and as Homer describes. So let's recap, it's a big episode, guys, I know there's so many moving parts here, but let's put this baby to bed. Most historians believe that Troy was a real Bronze Age city that experienced conflicts and destructions around 1250 BCE, and most likely involved the Mycenaeans and Troy, right? We've got evidence to support that. Homer's Iliad, as such, isn't a history, but a story shaped over generations by oral retellings of an ancient conflict at the city of Troy, which he, along with a number

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  of other important Greek scholars and playwrights, fluffed up, cut some bits out of, and put their own spin on, to make it grander and more relevant to the Greek values of their own time. Which means, there is no single complete source which we can refer to, in order to understand the whole story, or confirm whether it ever really happened. So, the most authoritative source we then have on the Trojan War is the archaeology at Hesaric, which reveals a city of great prosperity that declined after a disaster, which makes sense for it to be the inspiration for Homer's Iliad, which blended Bronze Age warfare with legends of gods, narrative skills, and a good old sprinkle of whimsy, fake horses,

• 1:07:49Speaker 00

  and drama, which was invented and spread for the pleasure of the reader, and as a philosophical insight into mankind. Which is, you know, exactly where so many people, across so many centuries, have clung to it. Inspired by the fury and the fantasy of a world that feels long gone, but perhaps in reality, isn't too far from where we currently are. Which brings us to the end of another episode of Hot History, guys. Thank you so much for following along with me on this episode. I know it's been a lot of, you know, long Greek words and I'm probably cannibalizing them all. And again, I apologize, but you know, I'm glad we're able to set this base

• 1:08:35Speaker 00

  of what the Trojan War is, who is involved, because next week, like I said, we are going to talk about the Odyssey. It will line up with the release of the film. Um, and we'll kind of see where, where this kind of fallout lands. What's, what's going on? Will Odysseus make it home? As always, guys, if you are looking for some more hot history before then, then you can follow us on Instagram at Hot History Club and on TikTok at Hot.History. It has been such a pleasure getting down and dirty in time with you and I will speak to you all shortly. Thanks, guys. Love you. Bye.

• 1:09:15Speaker 04

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