JFK Jr & CBK

Hello and welcome back to Hot History! I am so thrilled to FINALLY be covering the real history behind JFK Jr and Carolyn Bessette Kennedy in the wake of Love Story's final episode. From their careers, dealings with the media, inner circles and tragic passing, we're getting to know each of these 90's icons outside the silver screen. Make sure to tune in on Monday for my full review of Love Story too! If you're wanting more Hot History content you can follow along on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/hothistoryclub/?hl=en, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@hot.history?lang=en and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@hot.history and of course, right here! Til next week, Ainslie x

• 0:15Speaker 00

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• 0:41Speaker 01

  Hi guys and welcome back to Hot History, the podcast covering all the things in history that you probably should know, but don't. I'm Ainslie Harvey, your hot historian, ready to chat about the most important, iconic, and tragic couple of the 90s, Carolyn Berset and John F. Kennedy Jr. Now guys, as I said last week, for those of you who listened, Love Story, the show by Ryan Murphy about the famed couple, has been out for a few weeks. And I have been itching to cover the real history for you guys. But I wanted to do so when the finale was out. So it's airing tonight, and I will be dropping my review of the show in your feeds next week.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  And because of that, I won't be chatting about the show in depth today. This episode, guys, is reserved strictly for the real history about the couple and their tragic end, which saw the Great Book of Camelot come to a close. So guys, let's get straight into it by rewinding it all the way back to 1888 with the birth of the Kennedy dynasty's grand architect, Joseph Kennedy Sr.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  So Joe Kennedy owes his success to his Irish immigrant grandparents who arrived in the US with little money and limited opportunities after immigrating during the Great Irish Famine. Now, they found their way to Boston in the mid 19th century and the family faced intense discrimination from the largely Protestant establishment there as they were Catholics. But despite these obstacles, guys, the family gradually built a really stable life with Joe's father, Patrick, becoming a successful businessman and local political figure in Boston. Here, he served in the Massachusetts State Legislature and became involved in the democratic political networks that dominated Boston politics, laying the foundation for the Kennedy

• 2:37Speaker 01

  family's future in public life, which is where we come to his son, Joe Kennedy. So, as I said at the top, guys, he was born in 1880 in the midst of the Gilded Age, a time where a highly ambitious and financially savvy man like Joe could not only rise to prominence, but rise to power. And by his 30s, Joe amassed a considerable fortune through investment in banking, real estate, Hollywood film production, and the stock market. He also served as chairman of the US Securities and Exchange Commission, the SEC, under President FDR, helping regulate Wall Street after the Great Depression.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Now, this exposed up to the very heart of the American political system, set Joe on a path constantly craving more. And it was this ambition which saw him serve as US ambassador to the United Kingdom from 1938 to 1940, a pretty hectic period, beginning of World War II. Now, fun fact here, guys. It was here that Joe's daughter Kathleen, or Kick, as she was known, mingled with British high society. She was friends with the Mitford sisters, was presented at court to the king and queen, and fell in love with the heir to the Cavendish dynasty, whose family home is famously Chatsworth House, Mr. Darcy's Pemberley.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  So Joe by this point guys is already a wealthy political animal and his time in London instilled his additional ambition in him. That of family dynasty. Yes, of course, this was already something of heavy import in Gilded Age society. But without peerage in the US like they have in Britain, you know, dukes, lords, marksmen, you know, titles like that, it wasn't something you could really compete with in America. You could have money like the Vanderbilts or the Astors or the Rockefellers. You could even have political influence like the Roosevelts. But these American dynasties were comparable to the British aristocracy at best.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  There was nothing, however, that modeled the perfection and prestige of royalty. Until the Kennedys. You see, Joe Kennedy didn't want to be a member of high society. He wanted to lead it, blending wealth, politics and society into one. And to do this, guys, he curated his family within an inch of its life. And the ultimate goal was his son in the chair of the Oval Office. So Joe married Rose Fitzgerald in 1914, daughter of another prominent Boston political family, and together they had nine children, four sons, five daughters.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  The eldest of these was Joseph P. Kennedy Jr., who was groomed, like I said, within an inch of his life to be the family's great presidential candidate. He was smart and strong and attractive and set to be a war hero, you know, going off to fight the Nazis. However, his untimely death in 1944 during the conflict left the Kennedy dynasty on the shoulders of the second born son, John Fitzgerald Kennedy Jr.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  Now unlike his eldest brother, JFK was often quieter, more reflective and struggled with serious health problems throughout his youth. But none of this would stop Joe Kennedy from making him the next president of the United States. JFK too became a war hero with his Harvard degree, last name, family bank account and political affiliation with the Democratic Party, setting him up for a political career. But there was one very important thing missing before that could happen: a wife. And for his new prodigal son, Joe Kennedy knew this would be the most important decision in his son's life. Now, there were several women considered as a, you know, clearly strategic political

• 6:43Speaker 01

  match, but there was only one seen as the most suitable and strategically advantageous: Jacqueline Lee Bouvier. Now, I have done an episode on the Bouvier family and like Great Gardens before, if you do want to go listen about them, but they too were a gilded age family from France, becoming a part of the New York elite throughout this time. Jackie herself was well-educated, intelligent and known for her elegance and love of art, literature and languages. She attended George Washington University and later worked as a photographer and reporter for the Washington Times Herald, which is where she met JFK. The two began dating regularly after this, despite their busy schedules, and were engaged

• 7:25Speaker 01

  by June 1953, during which time John's political career was rapidly rising. Their wedding took place on September 12th, 1953, at St Mary's Church in Newport, Rhode Island, attended by over 700 guests, with a further 1,000 people waiting outside to catch a glimpse of what became the largest social event of the year. Shortly after the wedding, John began serving as a US Senator, becoming a father in 1956 with the birth of their daughter Arabella, who was stillborn at a Rhode Island hospital. Next came Caroline Bouvier Kennedy in 1957, shortly after which John announced his intentions to run for president.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  So at just forty-three years old, in November nineteen sixty, he won. Becoming the thirty-fifth president of the United States alongside Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson and of course Jackie as the first lady. Who was also pregnant at the time, giving birth to John Fitzgerald Kennedy Junior in November of that same year. The pair also famously lost their final child, Patrick Bouvier Kennedy, who died thirty-nine hours after his birth, very sadly in August of nineteen sixty-three. Now JFK's time in the White House was a defining one. And he promoted a vision of energy and progress which he called the New Frontier.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  It supported civil rights, it encouraged scientific advancement and strengthened America's role in the Cold War. He pushed for the space programme, promising a man on the moon before the end of the nineteen sixties, carefully negotiated with Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and started what would be known as Camelot. This golden age of Kennedy-led bliss. You know, the term Camelot, of course, coming from King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table. A period fabled for prosperity and honour. It would however all come crashing down when JFK was assassinated on November twenty-second nineteen sixty-three in Dallas, Texas.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  Jackie famously refused to take off the pink Chanel-inspired suit stained in her husband's blood, returning to Washington to move out of the White House and play host to the nation at her husband's funeral. With her two young children by her side mere months after the death of her baby and now her husband, she was laying him to rest next to the infant at Arlington National Cemetery, lighting the eternal flame that still stands lit today.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  But Jackie wasn't the only one who people remembered from that day. In fact, one other Kennedy captured the hearts of not only the nation, but the world. Young JFK Junior, who saluted his father's casket on his third birthday. It was picture perfect. A deeply tragic picture, of course, but one which propped up Camelot and the promise of its bright future in this young heir. Responsibility and honour at only three, bearing the same name as his great fallen father, clutching the hand of his mother and sister. And it was that young boy saluting his father's casket that followed JFK Junior his whole life.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  So that's a very, very simplified version of the Kennedy family history. I could definitely do a deep dive on the family and kind of the Camelot myth for you guys, if you would like. But today, guys, we are here to talk about JFK Junior and his wife, Caroline Berset. So let's pick up with JFK Junior after his father, after his father's death. You know, what's it like for the young heir to Camelot? Well, after the funeral, Jackie moved out of the White House with her two young children and went back to New York, hoping the city would allow them to blend in and live a more normal childhood, like her own. Going to Central Park, diner hopping, and then hauling up in their 15-storey penthouse apartment at 1040 Fifth Avenue was her dream for them.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  And it was one they did live, just not alone. Despite all her efforts, Caroline and John remained a subject of public fascination on a level that I don't think Jackie herself could have even imagined. The hounding by the press was incessant and would only grow in the years that passed as the Kennedy heir grew closer to fulfilling his destiny. And when his uncle, Robert F. Kennedy, so JFK's second youngest brother, was assassinated while running for president, Jackie began to have a really deep-seated fear about the dangers of political life for anyone with the last name Kennedy.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  So she took the necessary steps to protect herself and her children and married 62-year-old Aristotle Onassis, the Greek shipping magnate and millionaire whose controversial reputation in Europe did not help the couple's reputation to be easily accepted globally, when they tied the knot just five years after JFK's death. Again, I can do another episode on Aristotle and Jackie. But what we need to know here, guys, is that he was stupid rich, even more well-connected and had a very good security team which allowed Jackie to shield her children from some of the pressures of the Kennedy spotlight and the press that was associated with it. And I don't think we can really blame her for that. So Caroline and John Jr. have Aristotle as a stepfather.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  And by all accounts, guys, they actually really liked him. He showed genuine interest in their lives and schooling until his death in 1975. During this time, John attended collegiate school and Phillips Academy before heading out to Brown University. It was here that JFK Jr. studied a bachelor's degree in American Studies/History, guys. As if you needed any more proof that history is for hot people, JFK Jr. loved history, Kendall Jenner loves history, Isra Rae loves history, RDJ loves history, and so do all of you. What an elite club for us all to be in. Speaking of clubs, actually,

• 13:39Speaker 01

  while at Brown, JFK Jr. co-founded a student discussion group focusing on apartheid, gun control, and civil rights, which laid the foundation for his work in public service. After graduating from Brown, he spent time with a nonprofit organization called New York City's Office of Business Development, and he also worked with a nonprofit called New York's Urban Development Corporation, which focused on improving housing and economic opportunities in underserved communities, both of which reflected his interest in civic engagement.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  But he wanted more, so he decided to enroll in a law degree with NYU in nineteen eighty-nine. Now, it would be remiss of me not to mention this because it is genuinely such an important part of JFK Junior's life and, you know, this Kennedy Camelot mythology. Because along with getting seriously well-educated, JFK Junior was also getting seriously handsome. And I say that like totally objectively, guys. That man was gorgeous. And with his increasing age and increasing looks, the attention in the press and the paparazzi activity which fueled it became incessant.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Frequently listed amongst the most eligible bachelors not only in the US but the world, photographers followed him everywhere, snapping pics of him jogging in Central Park, attending social events, getting breakfast, cycling to uni, or simply walking the streets. And their ultimate hope was that they'd find him with a woman. John Junior's dating life was front-page news across the nation. After all, if he is the Kennedy heir, then his partner would be the new Jackie. So John found his romantic relationships splashed from east to west coast. That included his relationship while at Brown with Christina Hag, the actress and writer,

• 15:39Speaker 01

  who many friends described as a serious contender for his heart, some even believing they might marry. However, their separate career paths and the pressures of long-distance caused them to break up, with Christina later writing about the relationship in her memoir, describing John Junior as a charismatic, playful, and deeply thoughtful man. Another relationship that drew significant media attention was with JFK Junior and Madonna in the mid nineteen eighties. Now, at the time Madonna was one of the most famous pop stars in the world, and the idea of a Kennedy dating a global pop icon fascinated the public, like it's genuinely like something out of a fanfiction. And while it didn't last long, the press had a field day, adding to John Junior's reputation as a high-profile bachelor.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  During the late 1980s and early 1990s, John Junior was linked to several other women. And to be honest, guys, he was kind of a fuckboy. He was linked to several women, including Sarah Jessica Parker, and his most serious relationship with actress Daryl Hannah. Now, she, of course, is famed for her role in Kill Bill, where she portrayed the famous L driver, like the one-eyed assassin who whistles. I won't whistles, and as a demonstration, you guys know who I'm talking about. And Daryl and John's relationship was really tumultuous, guys. They were on again and off again, like, pretty much as much as it comes. And their five-year relationship, widely covered in magazines and newspapers, was often to the disapproval of his mother.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  Friend of the Kennedys, Jim Hart, mentioned in an autobiography that Jackie wasn't necessarily a fan of the relationship, stating, "It wasn't like she hated Daryl at all. She just didn't want her son marrying an actress. It kind of was that simple." Daryl herself has come out in defense of the rumors of Jackie and her budding heads, stating, "It's just not true. People just don't know necessarily why we broke up, so people speculate. I had a really great relationship with her. I won't go into some of the more personal details." Now, if you've been watching Love Story, then you'll find this surprising, as the dislike between Daryl and Jackie is very obvious. But I don't want to talk too much about Love Story today. Like I said, guys, we're covering the real history about JFK Junior and CBK,

• 17:53Speaker 01

  so come back on Monday for that. So at this point in time, some pretty important things are happening in John's life. Firstly, he graduated with his new law degree in 1989, intent on becoming a lawyer. So he took the New York bar exam, but failed it twice, receiving widespread media coverage, including the New York Times's The Hunk Flunks. While some saw the irony of the Kennedy heir being unable to pass a bar exam as embarrassing or amusing, John didn't, and so he went back and passed on his third attempt in 1990. After becoming a lawyer, John Junior worked as a prosecutor in the Manhattan District Attorney's Office where he handled cases involving minor crimes and community issues, similar to the

• 18:38Speaker 01

  role his uncle had once done, actually. Around this time, the relationship with Daryl ended for good, and shortly after Jackie was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma in January 1994. Now, I do wanna preface, the timelines can get a little muddy here with the relationship with Daryl ending, Jackie getting sick and his next relationship, but we do know that Jackie's health took a steep dive from January to May with her death on May 19th, changing John, Caroline and indeed, like, the whole dynamics of the Kennedy family forever.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  On her death, John Junior later said it was deeply personal and transformative for him, and really signaled this moment of change in the Camelot story. The great queen was gone, and now the young prince had to take over the kingdom, and to be honest, that's pretty much exactly what happened. John seemed taller, broader, more self-assured, and this manifested in his new venture, turning away from law in 1995 with the launch of George magazine. Now, whether it was the passing of his mother or the impact of the 90s, John felt an even greater need for politics to be demystified.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  He saw that the divide between politics and culture had grown too far, with people becoming disengaged by the political world around them, so he decided to make politics accessible, and in many ways, hot, by launching his glossy political mag named after the famous George Washington. Now, it combined serious political analysis with elements of pop culture, often featuring fragrance ads, movie reviews, celebrity interviews and styling tips, with its covers ranked as some of the most iconic of the 90s. There was the debut cover with Cindy Crawford dressed as George Washington, you had Drew Barrymore cosplaying Marilyn Monroe's "Happy Birthday, Mr. President", the irony.

• 20:39Speaker 01

  You had Arnold Schwarzenegger in a founding father's style wig on a motorbike, there was George Clooney holding the Declaration of Independence, like, they were absolutely iconic. I'll post some on the socials. And largely because of this, George quickly attracted national attention. And John Junior, serving as editor in chief, you know, largely helped. And he used his platform to explore political ideas without running for office himself. And we'll get to that later on, but I think it's important here to say, at this point in John's life, he was not considering running in any kind of political race, let alone the presidency. So John is having great success with George and looking very much like the American prince, you know, he was set up to be.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  But what's a prince without a princess? And for John, there is only one woman, Carolyn Berset. Yay, we've finally gotten to the point, we get to chat about Carolyn, guys. She is one of the most enigmatic, incredible women of the 20th century. In many ways, she actually kind of reminds me of Princess Diana. To be honest, their stories are pretty startlingly similar in some cases. So let's start at the beginning. Who is Carolyn Berset? Well, she was born on January 7th, 1966, in White Plains, New York, into a middle-class American family.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  Her mother, Anne Berset, worked in education and later became a school administrator, during which time she divorced her husband, William J. Berset, a cabinetmaker who was unfaithful in the marriage. After this, Carolyn and her sisters Lauren and Lisa were raised primarily in Greenwich, Connecticut, an affluent suburb known for its proximity to New York City, where Anne actually remarried to a man called Richard Freeman. He was an orthopedic surgeon. Now, I want to be really clear, despite the town's wealth and her stepfather's success as a surgeon, Carolyn's family was not a part of elite social circles in any way, shape or form. She and her sisters were raised like a normal American family. They attended the local high schools, they enjoyed sports, they had lots of friends,

• 22:51Speaker 01

  who according to her yearbook, voted her the ultimate beautiful person.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  And it was true. From a young age, Carolyn stood out for her natural beauty. She was confident, independent and quietly self-assured. This sense of unique freshness made her both striking but highly approachable. I kind of imagine Carolyn being the kind of person who you would meet at a bar or at a party and just like totally unfurl yourself to. You know those people like are just so like alluring but fun and kind. You just end up telling them everything about your life. That's exactly the experience that Carolyn had throughout her early years, including her time at Boston University. She just seems like such a great friend. I want to be her friend so bad.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  Here, she studied education, which she loved, but also began exploring interests beyond academics, namely in fashion and public relations. As we said, her family was by no means wealthy. And Carolyn worked several part-time jobs throughout her time in Boston, including a stint at Calvin Klein, the job that would ultimately change her life forever. Spotted working in-store by one of the brand's visiting sales associates who recognized her knack for working with customers and putting simple, yet chic, looks together, Carolyn was invited to interview with Paul Wilmot, head of PR at Calvin Klein in the late eighties and early nineties. You see, at the time, Calvin Klein president Susan Sacoal was looking for someone to help

• 24:23Speaker 01

  with the brand's celebrity stars in New York City and placed Wilmot in charge of vetting for the position. After acing the interview and deciding that education wasn't quite for her, Carolyn moved to New York and took the role looking after Calvin Klein's VIP clients. Everyone from movie stars to socialites to friends of Calvin found their way to Carolyn, who Wilmot said had this wonderful diplomatic, warm way with people, describing her as deeply maternal. As the years went on, she became Calvin's darling in PR, says Wilmot. She was running PR for the high-end collections, advising on campaigns, and even as the story goes, pushing for the brand to cast Kate Moss in its now iconic 1992 underwear ads with Marky Mark.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Everyone loved her, and Susan said Carolyn fit bill perfectly. She was absolutely charming. She was totally refreshing. She was completely outgoing. And that's a really large part of Carolyn's fascination and appeal today. She had this aura, an energy, a certain presence that seems to have filled every room she went into without having flashy dramatic clothing or making flashy dramatic statements. Or, as George Carr, brother of Klein's creative director, said, "She entered the fashion world like Venus coming up out of the ocean." Calvin saw it immediately. Everyone was talking about her.

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• 26:43Speaker 01

  Carolyn's time at Calvin Klein was legendary. And despite working with celebrities in the very centre of the fashion world, Carolyn maintained a relatively private life. Reading statements from friends and interviews with colleagues, everyone constantly mentioned Carolyn's remarkable zest for life. She was riotously funny with a quick repartee and a dry wit that nearly everyone said would bring out her incredible laugh. She was funny, free and not afraid of anything, which cultural critic Camille Paglia noted made her look like a romping lioness. Designer Sarah Roffin-Castello, who lived in the same Washington Square Building as Carolyn,

• 27:28Speaker 01

  actually recalled seeing her at an event, saying, "I'll never forget watching her dance. Totally unfiltered joy having a ball. She dragged everyone out with her. She got the party started and immediately the dance floor was packed." But with this love of life and fun, she was also renowned for her discretion and was just about the furthest thing you could get from a social climber or clout chaser. Her social circle was small but diverse, covering creatives from many industries, and she preferred low-key gatherings to high-profile events. A startling juxtaposition to another New Yorker at the time. While Carolyn was free and discreet,

• 28:09Speaker 01

  John Junior's social life was full of gala dinners, premieres, charity auctions, and the flash of paparazzi cameras. Their lives were truly as different as you could get. But still, they converged. Now, according to widely accepted accounts, John first met Carolyn around 1992, when he visited the Calvin Klein showroom while she was working. Some sources suggest he was there with Daryl, who he was dating at the time, while others say John was there to get fitted for his suit. Regardless of the exact circumstances, it was clear that John was immediately drawn to Carolyn, who, unlike many people he met, didn't really care about his fame or reputation. She was calm, confident, and somewhat reserved, which intrigued John,

• 28:55Speaker 01

  who was used to people fawning over him. Now, whether this was, like I said, she was, you know, so used to being around famous people at her job, or more likely by all accounts that we have, she just genuinely didn't care about his fame, Carolyn treated John like a normal dude. A phenomenon so unusual to the Kennedy heir that she stuck out like a sore thumb in the sea of faces he met every day, prompting him to get her number at some point around this 1992 meeting. And the pair began quietly dating. Again, guys, I want to reiterate, this is a super messy relationship to begin with because John is really dating Daryl and Carolyn at the same time.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  In fact, a friend of the family recalled John Junior bringing Carolyn to the Kennedy compound on Cape Cod one weekend, and Daryl with him the next.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  We do know that John also invited Carolyn to a gala with his friends around this time in 1992, which left her less than impressed by his intentions, as he spent the night sitting next to another woman that Carolyn either mistook as his date, or actually was his date. So like I said, guys, messy. But they did reconnect in May, later that year, at a fundraiser, where they were reportedly seen in deep conversation for more than an hour. And again, I want to repeat, throughout all of this, he is still seeing Daryl, guys. The first time Carolyn and John were ever pictured together was on November 14th, 1993, as they watched the New York Marathon together on the side of the street, basically sitting

• 30:28Speaker 01

  in a gutter, where Carolyn was referred to as, and I quote, "The New Blonde." Now, I do want to address this here, because so much of the reporting around Carolyn Berset, both at the time and still largely today, guys, is deeply misogynistic. The tabloids constantly misrepresented her as this, like, ultra femme, vain woman, whose love of fashion and career at large was frivolous and cold and self-centered. She, and indeed, all the women who JFK Junior dated, was spoken about as these disposable accessories, used to make him seem daring, or smart, or adventurous, or whatever fodder they wanted to tote that

• 31:12Speaker 01

  time of the year. And yes, guys, JFK Junior was a playboy. He dated women, often at the same time, and was a prolific ghoster. But the misogynistic tabloid media pushed narratives that dehumanized these women, especially Carolyn, who they only became more aggressive and horrible towards as time went on. And this is kind of putting the horse ahead of the cart, or cart ahead of the horse, whatever the saying is. But it's hard to imagine this reporting of Carolyn Berset today, because she is so widely loved and renowned as this icon. But her legacy now is not a reflection of her treatment at the time. And we'll get into more of that when I talk about Love Story next week.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  So John and The New Blonde are spotted together in late 1993. But it was the following year after his official break with Daryl that John began seriously pursuing Carolyn. So we know that John was keen, guys. But what did Carolyn think about potentially joining the Kennedy family? Well, first things first, as PR exec, she understood exactly how the world of fame and the press worked and was rightfully very cautious about even being pictured with John, let alone dating him. So this, guys, could never have been like a Meghan Markle, I didn't know who Prince Harry was kind of situation. It certainly would become a I can't believe

• 32:36Speaker 01

  how easily lies can be made up about me situation, but to say that Carolyn Berset had no idea what she was signing up for and wasn't aware of the way the media would change her life, actually does her a huge disservice. That was literally her job. So she wanted to make sure John was serious about wanting to date her before agreeing. After all, a prior, dating life was hardly full of clear commitment from the serial playboy. One friend said that Carolyn initially said no to John when he asked to date her exclusively, so much so that John kept figuring out a way to come back to the showroom for more business meetings and more fittings. Eventually, his persistence paid off. And while the timeline

• 33:20Speaker 01

  of their exclusive relationship, like I said, is pretty murky, one of the key things we know is that Carolyn never had the chance to meet Jackie Kennedy before her death. Something which Elizabeth Bella, author of Carolyn's biography, said John did regret not introducing the two women. So based on this, we can assume Carolyn and John began properly exclusively dating somewhere around February 1994. And they did really try to keep the relationship under wraps. But when it became clear who the new blonde was, that all went out the window.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  As Calvin Klein's PR guru, Carolyn was a fashion it girl, and the idea of America's prince dating her once again is something like out of a fanfiction. And for the press, it became a national spectacle. John F. Kennedy Jr. and Carolyn Berset were part love story, part celebrity obsession, and part Kennedy mythology. And once they began being seen together in public, they were never alone again.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Photographers followed the pair almost everywhere, walking in Soho, leaving John's Tribeca apartment, getting breakfast, even going to the fucking supermarket. And while John was always a topic of fascination for the press, Carolyn, as the apparent new Mrs. Kennedy, became their obsession. And it's that obsession which formed the media legacy she is known for today.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  The focus wasn't on her work, or personality or beliefs, but on Carolyn's personal appearance and style. Newspapers and magazines closely analyzed her clothing, often comparing her to Jackie. And almost overnight, she became a fashion icon, which today is what we really remember her for. But to bestow her this mantle, the press often portrayed Carolyn as aloof or distant. You know, a cold woman with a calculating agenda to use the press and her relationship with John to climb the career ladder within the fashion world. This narrative saw papers flying off the shelves and with it,

• 35:46Speaker 01

  the paparazzi became more and more aggressive. Photographers would crowd sidewalks, shout questions and attempt to provoke reactions from her on the way to work, or leaving dinner with friends or drinks with family. And there were reports of Carolyn confronting photographers directly, à la Chapel Rohn, asking them to leave her the fuck alone. She didn't actually say that. But, you know, these moments were captured and used by tabloids to create narratives about tension or conflict, not with them and the media, but within the couple's relationship itself. Again, guys, she couldn't just be pissed off because they were ruining her life and, you know, taking any semblance of privacy she had.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  It was because her and John were fighting. And, you know, I want to be really clear here, guys. It was never his fault. The angle was always that Carolyn had brought out the worst in America's prince, that she was changing him. And a lot of people held that against her. Absolute misogynistic, factually incorrect bullshit.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  But it did sell papers. And so the state of their relationship became a key topic of conversation for tabloids, who went so far, this is insanity. Tabloids went so far, guys, as to employ psychics to weigh in on John Junior and Carolyn Bessette's future. Yeah. There was speculation about arguments, breakups or impending engagements with proof of these events coming in the form of these experts or in small details such as whether they were seen together on a particular date. Can I just say, thank God those TikTok lip readers like weren't around at this time. Just thank God that this was like pre-digital age because my God, their lives would have been like even more psychoanalyzed than they already were.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  I reckon this is probably the first case of that like intense scrutiny lip reading, like Taylor Swift style stalking.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  So throughout all of nineteen ninety five, this constant speculation and huge change in Carolyn's life, like I said, created masses of pressure for the couple. And many of their friends and family didn't think they'd make it. I mean, who the hell can cope with this, you know, pressure and scrutiny and falsehoods? But Carolyn, guys, was tough. She was smart. She knew who she was and who she loved. And the couple grew even stronger, which only made John all the more sure that there was no one else he could imagine spending the rest of his life with. Carolyn was it and he wanted her to know it. So around mid nineteen ninety five, John invited her to go fishing in Martha's Vineyard, an island just off Cape Cod where the Kennedy compound was.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Over this Fourth of July weekend, the pay went fishing and it was here that he ended up proposing. On this, Kennedy's former assistant Rosemarie Terenzio said he went into this thing talking about how everything's better with a partner, not just fishing, but life. And he said, I want you to be my partner. The ring was a model of one of Jackie Kennedy's swimming rings, like a thin band with diamonds. Um, Carolyn's had sapphires in it. I believe Jackie's was like emeralds or something. But Carolyn wasn't a jewelry person, guys, so you know, a big, big rock wouldn't have, wouldn't have suited her. So this simple elegant band perfectly matched her style and it was that bit of Kennedy family history in there. But what did she say?

• 39:16Speaker 01

  Well, where most women in the presence of JFK Junior would have screamed, yes, wept and, you know, probably knocked the boat over in excitement. Carolyn apparently didn't give John an answer for three weeks. She was a cautious and above all, smart woman. And already experiencing the mass throes of scrutiny by the press as John's girlfriend, she needed to decide whether being his wife was worth it. Because the reality is, for Carolyn percent, for any Kennedys and indeed anyone marrying into fame or celebrity, sometimes love just isn't enough. But for Carolyn, after weeks of deliberation, she decided it was and agreed to marry John

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Junior and become the next Mrs. Kennedy. The news of this Kennedy engagement was huge, comparable in many ways to an engagement within the royal family, Diana or Meghan, you know? So you imagine there'd be a photo call for the press, perhaps even maybe an interview, one in George, for example. But there was none of that, guys. The couple fought to keep it unwrapped for as long as possible, with the press only finding out through intense surveillance, which ended with the New York Post running a headline on September 1st, 1995, titled JFK Junior Pops the Question, which featured a cropped photo showing the ring on Carolyn's finger. So at this point, like I said, George is live.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  What many believe will be the wedding of the century is around the corner and the future of Camelot seems very much assured.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  But the shiny veneer appears to have its first major crack on February 25th, 1996, when John and Carolyn were caught on camera in a very public, physical fight. So let's break down the infamous Battery Park fight.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  So on the morning of February 25th, 1996, Carolyn and John Junior left their apartment with their dog Friday, looking strained but still holding hands. Sometime later, they arrived in New York's Battery Park, where an argument broke out during which John Junior seemed to take something from Carolyn Verset's hand. After this, she runs towards him and jumps on his shoulders. The whole thing is caught on camera. And when I say these images are damning, they are explicit, guys. The kind of argument you'd almost never have at home, let alone in a very, very public park.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  So after the initial conflict, the pair seemingly calmer talk quietly on a bench. Afterwards, they leave the park. John then sits down on a curb and Carolyn stands above him talking. He reaches out with his hand, um, she appears to take what many believe is her ring back from him. And her dog, their dog is there, she tries to take the lead of their dog, he yanks it back out of reach and the argument then continues. Later, still on that curb, she appears to comfort him, hugging him, whispering into his ear, and she leads their dog away, he then follows. She then lights up a cigarette borrowed from a stranger on the street, they hug, and you know, we seem to make peace. So what the hell happened here, guys?

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Well, it is generally accepted that the initial argument in the park involved John ripping Carolyn's engagement ring off her finger, like I said, after which she climbed on his back to retrieve it. Later, when they're on the curb and he hands it back to her, after which the photographer who filmed the incident recalls that Carolyn tried to take the dog's leash, like take the lead off of John, who was sitting in his gutter, while John yelled, "You got my ring, you're not getting my dog too." She responded, "It's our dog." The fight did end with the couple staying together, and when later asked about the incident on the Howard Stern Show, John said, "It was some silly argument. We've been going out for a long time." Now, the true cause of this argument, we don't know.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  My contemporary reports offer a number of theories. Some that claim Carolyn accused John of flirting with another woman, highly likely, and others said that it was because Carolyn told John that he let people walk all over him. He also did this. Regardless, this very private, heated, intimate moment was not only made public by the photographer on the day, but wheeled and deal to every magazine in New York. And many thought this was really the end for the famed couple, at least a significant chink in the Camelot, Kennedy, Armour. But still, they persisted. In fact, the public nature of their fight and its coverage made them even more determined

• 44:02Speaker 01

  to avoid the press for their wedding, which they planned in complete secrecy. For the venue, they needed something totally secluded. I mean, pretty much abandoned. And for this, John suggested Cumberland Island, a strip of land a mile off the coast of Georgia, which is occupied by more wild horses than people. John knew the island's owners, of course he did, who ensured no other visitors would be around during the wedding, with guests and workers all signing confidentiality agreements to attend. The wedding itself took place at the First African Baptist Church, a small white-cladded building in the middle of nowhere, and was officiated by Reverend Charles J. O'Byrne.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  As for guests, the grand total was forty, including John's cousin Anthony Radswell, his sister Caroline, and her three children, Jack Schlossberg, who acted as ring bearer, and Rose and the late Tatiana Schlossberg, who were flower girls. Not present was Jackie's sister, the famed Lee Radswell, who reportedly sent Caroline headbands and hair clips as a wedding present because her bun was too messy, shady. To house all their guests, John and Carolyn took over as many family homes on the island as they could, with Carolyn wearing a simple dress designed by Nacisa Rodriguez, which required alterations on the day, resulting in Carolyn being two hours late for the ceremony.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  But my god, guys, it was worth it, with the famed image of John kissing her hand after they tied the knot, becoming one of the most famous and recognizable of the twentieth century. So the pair are officially Mr. and Mrs. Kennedy. They honeymooned for two weeks in Turkey before returning to New York, and the onslaught of press, who were desperate for the first images of the newlyweds, was like nothing they'd seen before. At this point, Carolyn resigned from her job at Calvin Klein with the publicity circus surrounding her personal life interfering with her professional life. And after the wedding, Carolyn didn't hold another formal full-time position, but she

• 46:11Speaker 01

  kept busy focusing on her charity work and supporting George. But the main thing she did was really try to maintain a semblance of privacy. She was hounded, and if it was bad before, the new life of Carolyn Persett Kennedy, aka CBK, was relentless. Rumours of drug use, mental health problems, eating disorders, and the constant questioning of the contents of her womb were a daily occurrence. To the press and Camelot enthusiasts alike, Carolyn was there to bring about the next generation of Kennedys, but she was just trying to figure out her own life, guys.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  She was a newlywed unsure what to do with her career for really the first time in her life. And being stalked by men with cameras 24/7? It's not fucking easy. So much so, they camped out the front of her house, they screamed at her on the street, they constantly took zoomed-in photos of her stomach looking for a bump. And by 1997, guys, Carolyn almost retreated entirely from the public eye. Around this time, she became thinner and blonder, and she held her body with more tension as life as Mrs Kennedy really took its toll on her. The woman, who was once described as romping like a lioness, now moved more carefully through the world.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  She was hyper-aware of the cameras, always watching, always ready to twist a gesture or expression or word into the next day's cruel headline. And she really did become a shell of her former self, which is where this like ice queen legacy began to emerge. Again, a fabrication and creation of the media.

• 48:01Speaker 01

  The struggle of this really compounded on the couple, who began seeing a marriage counselor around this time, which is also when John picked up an old hobby: flying. Beginning his training in October 1982, John sporadically lodged over 47 hours across the next six years before stopping in September 1988. Now, he resumed his training, like I said, at this point around December 1997, amidst the strains of their marriage, using it as an outlet away from his office and home. By the time the couple reached 1988, the counselling did seem to be paying off and they really did seem committed to a balance between private and public life, with many friends describing their relationship

• 48:44Speaker 01

  as deeply affectionate and committed. They appeared to have found that balance or were in the stage of its development. Because by the time that 1999 rolled around, which, like, it's so crazy thinking about the year of 1999 with him, the year I was born, it seems like this completely different age, we'll get into it more, but at this point, Carolyn seemed to have returned to her former self and the shift was evident in those around her. She was working with the Robin Hood Foundation and Newman's Own charitable initiatives, which really gave her purpose away from the spotlight and away from her husband. And she was gathering information, actually, about the documentary filmmaking process, hoping to represent underserved communities

• 49:27Speaker 01

  by making and endorsing these films. It's always nice to kind of have a little bit of a light into what may have become for CBK. It was also around this time that her hair gathered more shade, returning to its natural famed depth. Her skin overcame its power and her smile returned, the one that always seemed on the verge of a laugh. She even began to navigate the press in person a little more. For when John was asked by reporters stationed outside a May 1999 event what he considered generosity to be, Carolyn actually chimed in, interrupting the reporter, saying, "You should be asking me that." Yes, he's very generous. So Carolyn was making it work, guys.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  She was strong, she was smart, she was determined to remain herself. And amidst the struggle, she made it through. And I want to make it really clear, guys. Carolyn is the hero of this story, at least in my eyes. Of course, I'm biased, I'm a woman, I adore her. But throughout their lives, John sacrificed very little. He tried his best to protect his wife from the media. You know, he did genuinely love her. But it was an essential part of his life, one that he was never going to give up. And I'm not saying that he threw her to the wolves or anything like that. But she gave up nearly everything for him and he gave up very little. In fact, he actually wanted to take more.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  According to John's friend and biographer Stephen Gillan, John had considered running for New York's open senate seat in 1999, the one which was eventually won by Hillary Clinton. This wouldn't come to be. And a large part of the Kennedy fascination and the mythology lies in the what ifs. What would JFK have accomplished in office had he not been assassinated? Would Bobby Kennedy have been elected president? And what would have happened if JFK Junior ran for the senate? Would he have become the Camelot King? But we don't know because John, Carolyn and her sister Lauren's lives would be cut short. Now, I do want to preface here, guys, that I will be talking about traumatic injuries, including those related to planes.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  So if this is something you'd like to fast forward on, then please go ahead and do that now. So on the evening of July 16th, 1999, John Junior departed from Essex County Airport in New Jersey, piloting his own small aircraft, a Piper Saratoga. The group was travelling to Martha's Vineyard, to the Kennedy compound, where they planned to attend the wedding of John's cousin Rory Kennedy. Carolyn's sister Lauren was accompanying them as a guest for the event. As we already said, John had earned his pilot licence in 1998, making him a relatively inexperienced pilot, especially in challenging conditions. But still, he insisted on flying them out for the event. That night, weather conditions were not severe or storming,

• 52:24Speaker 01

  but there was a heavily hazy sky that reduced visibility over the Atlantic Ocean. And with the flight taking place after sunset, John was flying largely over open water in darkness with few visual reference points and not a great deal of experience. Shortly after takeoff, the plane appeared to deviate from its expected flight path, with air traffic controllers losing contact with the aircraft. When it failed to arrive at Martha's Vineyard, concern quickly grew. And by the following day, a large-scale search and rescue operation was underway, involving the US Coast Guard, Navy and Air Force. For days, media outlets around the world provided constant updates, and many Americans hoped for a miracle.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  However, the Kennedy family's history of tragedy cast a heavy shadow over the situation, with reports of the Kennedy Curse spreading to the younger generations growing constant. And in many ways, they weren't wrong. For the worst possible news came on July 21, 1999, when the wreckage of the plane was discovered on the ocean floor, about 13 kilometres off the coast of Martha's Vineyard. There were no survivors.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  With the bodies of John, Carolyn and Lauren later recovered by Navy divers along with their possessions and the plane. An investigation was then led by the National Transportation Safety Board, concluding that the probable cause of the crash was pilot error due to spatial disorientation. This basically occurs when the pilot loses the ability to correctly perceive the aircraft's position and movement, particularly in low visibility conditions. The report also found that John Jr was not certified for instrument-only flying, meaning he relied primarily on visual cues rather than instruments to navigate. The tragedy shocked the nation and led to widespread mourning not just for John, but for the Bessette sisters,

• 54:19Speaker 01

  whose bond and young lives became entangled in the Kennedy dynasty. Again, prompting the question, what if?

• 54:29Speaker 01

  A private memorial service was held and their ashes were scattered at sea from a US Navy ship in keeping with the Kennedy family's connection to the ocean. On JFK Junior and Carolyn Berset's crash, Steve Gillan described his friend's actions as reckless, stating, "There's no such thing as a Kennedy curse. They simply take risks that most other people would not take. He was reckless. He was reckless his whole life."

• 54:54Speaker 01

  I mean, even at the time of the crash, John was wearing a cast on his left ankle due to a paragliding accident. He was constantly taking risks and doing the next daring thing, and it's not hard to see why, guys. In the shadow of a man who is described as a king, heir to a throne of prosperity and the last real hope of America, the pressure of that for John Junior is so intense. So he had to do something different and grand to stand out. And that is the real Kennedy curse. Dynastic pressure, creating a mounting need to reinvent, to be greater, to outdo, to survive as your own person.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  From royalty to industrial or political dynasty, we see it time and time again. Still today, JFK Junior and Carolyn Berset are remembered as one of the last members of the American dynastic golden age, where families like the Vanderbilts, Rockefellers, Morgans, and Kennedys meant something amidst an era that wasn't so long ago, but seems so different from today's faction media landscape. Carolyn herself remembered for her style and dynamic life, John for his cultural significance, and again, that sense of unrealized potential, both of them shaped by romance and tragedy as one of the last pre-digital celebrity couples which represented a moment where politics,

• 56:19Speaker 01

  fashion, and celebrity intersected in a unique way. Or, in the famous words of Jack Schlossberg's dad, "What happens when you combine politics and fashion? You get passion."

• 56:33Speaker 01

  And that brings us guys to the end of another episode of Hot History. Thank you so much for following along with me on this episode. There was so much to cover. I could not cover everything. We'd be here for like a week. I am going to cover more and kind of do a bit of an analysis. Like I said, in my full review of Love Story next week, looking at its treatments of both Carolyn and John. You can then tune in for our normal episodes next Friday where we are going to chat about the 1903 Romanov Winter Ball, described as the last great royal ball of Europe. And if you think the Met Gala is wild, guys, then you best hold on to your hats and horses. Because this ball was the beginning of the end for the Romanov family.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  As always, guys, if you're looking for some more hot history, then you can follow us on Instagram at Hot History Club and on TikTok at Hot.History. It has been a pleasure getting down and dirty in time with you as always, guys. And I will speak to you all next Friday. Thanks, guys. Love you. Bye.