15 (Second Edition): “We the People:” Constitution Making in Philly

“What even is the Virginia Plan but democracy checked by democracy, or pork with a little change of the sauce?” This is the story of 55 men from 12 of the 13 sovereign states gathered at the Pennsylvania State House during the miserably hot Philadelphian summer of 1787. They are here to discuss the failing Articles of Confederation. Foreign debts are past due. Rebellions are rising. The states are fighting. Can they fix all of this? Or will the disagreeing, arguing, threatening, theorizing, brainstorming, (mostly) sober-speech making, and compromising all be for naught? Connect with us on HTDSpodcast.com http://HTDSpodcast.com and preorder Prof. Jackson’s new book https://www.htdspodcast.com/bookgo deep into episode bibliographies https://www.htdspodcast.com/bibliography and book recommendations https://www.htdspodcast.com/book-recommendationsjoin discussions in our Facebook community https://www.facebook.com/groups/257926761619618/get news and discounts from The HTDS Gazette https://www.htdspodcast.com/newsletters-1 come see a live show https://www.htdspodcast.com/live-showsget HTDS merch https://htds-team-shop.fourthwall.com/or become an HTDS premium https://htds.supercast.com/ member for bonus episodes and other perks. HTDS is part of Audacy media network. https://www.audacy.com/ Interested in advertising on the History That Doesn't Suck? Contact https://audacyinc.com/contactAudacyinc.com http://Audacyinc.com

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• 1:18Speaker 00

  It's about 4 o'clock in the freezing afternoon, January 25th, 1787. And 40-year-old farmer Daniel Shays is doing something that, a few years ago, he never would have imagined. He's leading a force of well over 1,000 farmers through four-foot-deep snow in western Massachusetts out to arm themselves in their ongoing struggle against their own state government. This isn't what he wanted. Daniel believed in the promise of a king-free Massachusetts and America. A militiaman turned Continental captain, he fought bravely at Bunker Hill, at Saratoga, at Stony Point. General George Washington personally selected him to guard Major John Andre in the final

• 2:02Speaker 00

  moments before the British officers hanging. But Congress, which, as we know from Episodes 11 and 14, has no power to tax under the current Articles of Confederation, never properly paid him for his years of service. All Daniel received were nearly worthless IOU certificates. And now, under the influence of coastal merchants, the likewise strapped-for-cash Massachusetts state government has raised taxes and demanded payment not in farm goods or congressional IOUs, but in coin. And the courts are foreclosing on farmers who can't pay. In short, Massachusetts is facing a cascading cash crisis, and the state's western farmers,

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  many of whom bled and risked their lives for the state's liberty, are being forced to bear the brunt. But these farmers, who've tried to play nice, some have sold their IOUs for pennies on the dollar, Daniel even sold the sword given to him by the Marquis de Lafayette, have hit their breaking point. And it's not like soldiering against an oppressive, tax-happy government is unfamiliar to them. So, here they go again. That is how former Continental Captain Daniel Shays came to lead this farmer army, now trudging through the snow, to reach the federal arsenal in Springfield, where they plan to arm themselves with its 7,000 brand-new muskets and bayonets, 1,300 barrels of black

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  powder, a few pieces of artillery, and of course, all the shot they need to continue fighting against the state. There's just one problem: The state militia is here too, guarding the armory.

• 3:43Speaker 00

  In front of the Springfield armory stands Massachusetts militia general William Sheppard. This is a federal armory, but with Congress too broke and too short on troops to send a force, and Massachusetts wary of Congress meddling in its affairs, it's the state militia, not the US Army, that's here today. Now, William is watching his messengers. Major Lyman and Captain Buffington parley with Daniel Shays and his aides about 250 yards in the distance. What a mess. To William and other state, or even congressional leaders, this is exactly the kind of mob that too much democracy can bring. All these farmers have to do is pay their taxes and they can vote.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  Their grievances are nothing like those of the Revolution. Moreover, word has it, these farmers are anarchists who want to get rid of all personal property. Well, if true, that's crazy, and definitely not what William, a former Continental Colonel, fought to create. Hence, his messengers are telling Daniel Shays and his men to disperse, or else. Ah, and here comes Major Lyman and Captain Buffington now, returning from their parley. They deliver Daniel's reply: "The farmers will not disperse." And off in the distance? Yes. These rebels are advancing in columns.

• 5:08Speaker 00

  Turning to Major William Stevens of the artillery, General William Sheppard orders a warning shot. The cannon fire rips through the freezing afternoon air. But the farmers remain resolute. They continue marching forward. The major tries a second time, again firing well over the farmers' heads, hoping to dissuade them. No dice. Their advance continues. If anything, the warning shot only seems to have invigorated the 400 old soldiers at the front of the charge, led by yet another revolutionary vet, Captain James White. Moving in eight-man-deep formations, the farmers quicken their march to a trot. This fight is on.

• 5:50Speaker 00

  William's done what he can to avoid blood. If they want to throw down, it so be it. The militia general has the cannon's trajectory lowered to waistband height. The cannonballs fly right at the column of farmers. As they do, an out-of-sight howitzer unleashes deadly grape shot. Three farmers are dead on the spot, others writhing in pain, as they grab at their torn flesh and feel hot blood pouring through their fingers, right into the ice-cold, four-foot-deep snow, as the rest of their forces break in retreat. One of them will yet die, bringing the total fatalities to four.

• 6:43Speaker 00

  Welcome to History That Doesn't Suck. I'm your professor, Greg Jackson, and I'd like to tell you a story.

• 7:04Speaker 00

  Named after the former Continental captain leading it, Shays' rebellion ran through the winter of 1786 to 87. Fully broken shortly after this January showdown we just witnessed, this rebellion left the state's elites hungry to make examples of its leaders. But John Hancock would have none of it. Recently returned at the governor's office, the 50-year-old Bostonian wisely eased tensions by securing pardons for the chief instigators, even for Daniel Shays. But the impact of Shays' rebellion was far from over. Americans across the 13 sovereign states were terrified. Those farmers attacked a federal arsenal, yet Massachusetts dealt with it, proving just how weak Congress is.

• 7:50Speaker 00

  That has Americans thinking: As much as each state likes its sovereignty and independence -- and we'll get to that -- maybe it's time to give Congress, that is, the United States, enough power to actually do its job, like regulate interstate trade and put down armed rebellions. As Mercy Otis Warren puts it:

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Though the late disturbances were quelled, it awakened all to a full view of the necessity of concert and union in measures that might preserve their internal peace.

• 8:19Speaker 00

  In other words, Shays' rebellion is the straw breaking the camel's back. So it's time to fix the Articles of Confederation, maybe even replace the Articles. And we're going to Philadelphia to do it.

• 8:32Speaker 00

  That's right. Today's story is the Constitutional Convention. We'll bear witness as 55 men, particularly driven by our shortest founding father, James "Little" Jimmy Madison, deliberate, persuade, coax, and even threaten, but ultimately, compromise on a new form of government that they hope will preserve the failing union and peace between them. But to better understand this unfolding drama, let's first back up, build on some knowledge from past episodes, and review the Articles of Confederation, so that we really grasp what's brought these states to the brink. Ready? Rewind.

• 9:12Speaker 00

  Though calling themselves the "United States" since 1776, there's little "United" about these American states as the Revolutionary War comes to its official end in 1783. And that is in no small part due to this Union's governing compact: the Articles of Confederation. In the works as of 1776, completed in 1778 and officially in effect once the 13th state, Maryland, ratified in 1781, the Articles of Confederation did not create a national government. The 13 states are still very independent. As Article 2 tells us: "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right

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  which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States in Congress assembled." And just what is delegated to Congress? Foreign affairs, like diplomacy and war; some economic matters, like coining and borrowing money; and settling tiffs between the states. But there's no power to tax, no executive leading, and big decisions require nine states in agreement. That's pretty much it. So again, this isn't a nation. It's closer to an alliance of 13 separate sovereign states. Nations? Basically, an 18th-century version of NATO. Or, as the third of these Articles puts it,

• 10:37Speaker 00

  and I quote, "A League of Friendship." Yeah, it's friends with benefits. But we know that, don't we? In Episode 11, we saw how Congress's power to coin money, but not really manage it, created an all-but-worthless colonial dollar. In Episode 14, we saw Congress's ability to raise an army but not tax to pay for it had Continental officers ready to foment rebellion. If that "lack of power to tax" sounds crazy, remember, these guys just fought a war to break away from a king and a parliament that they saw as tyrannical, and taxation from above, not the local colonial level, was central to that tyranny.

• 11:20Speaker 00

  Thus, they've kept the power to tax with the states for fear that they'll recreate the very thing they just tore down. Understandable, but it isn't working. Congress's IOUs to soldiers and officers, and delinquent debts to France and Spain are strangling the young Union's neck. Nor is this Congress of the Confederation proving strong enough to settle disputes between the states. I mean, blood isn't being drawn in Vermont anymore, but that's no thanks to Congress. And besides, what is Vermont? New Yorkers claim the region while it calls itself an independent republic and is threatening to join British Canada. And what about Maryland and Virginia? And their conflicting claims to navigation,

• 12:04Speaker 00

  fisheries, and other water rights on the Potomac? Where are you, Congress of the Confederation? Well, forget Congress. Delegates from Maryland and Virginia gather in 1785 to figure things out. Meeting at the home of the former Continental commander-turned-private citizen, George Washington, the Marylanders and Virginians cook up a 13-point agreement: the Mount Vernon Compact. Huh, impressive. So impressive, in fact, that one particularly short Virginian, whom I'll introduce properly later, James Madison, is keen to hold another gathering. One where all of the 13 bickering states can talk through their messy interstate trade situation. With his pushing,

• 12:49Speaker 00

  Virginia officially calls for a convention to gather in Annapolis, Maryland.

• 12:56Speaker 00

  Okay, "convention" is a strong word. Only 12 guys from five states show up. Only three of those states, Virginia, Delaware, and New Jersey, have enough to form a proper delegation. Among the 12, we have our new friend, James Madison, and the Continental Colonel-turned-New York lawyer, Alexander Hamilton. But despite poor attendance, this September 1786 convention proves important. The attendees talk about far more than commerce. Under the influence of Alex, who has long worried that the inadequate Articles of Confederation will be the death of America. Indeed, in 1782, he wrote to a colleague:

• 13:39Speaker 00

  "God grant, the Union may last, but it is too frail now to be relied on." The 12 men realize the Articles themselves are the real problem: that "friends with benefits" isn't working. So Alex prepares a letter calling for another convention to overhaul the Union. Oh, Alex. Brilliant, yet brash as ever, I see. Virginians Edmund Randolph and James Madison soften it. And between that softening, James's tireless lobbying in the months ahead, and, as established earlier, Shay's rebellion that winter, the Congress of the Confederation concedes, resolving on February 21, 1787,

• 14:23Speaker 00

  that "it is expedient that on the second Monday in May next, a convention of delegates, who shall have been appointed by the several states, be held at Philadelphia for the sole and express purpose of revising the Articles of Confederation." On that second Monday, May 14, 1787, James Madison, who's so eager for this revising convention that he came to Philadelphia 11 days early, walks into the Philadelphia State House Assembly Room, all ready to go. But alas, James finds what he calls "a small number only" of delegates. His fellow, though far more famous, Virginian,

• 15:08Speaker 00

  George Washington, is here. The Pennsylvanians are here. But otherwise, the room's chairs remain empty with far too few to open the convention. The next day, May 15, Virginia Governor Edmund Randolph arrives. That's it. Look, delegates are coming. Shoddy interstate roads and bad weather are making everybody tardy. But the delay isn't all bad. It gives the Virginians and the Pennsylvanians time to bond, which will have huge ramifications. And that bonding starts at the home of Philly's most celebrated resident.

• 15:46Speaker 00

  It's Wednesday evening, May 16, 1787. And right now, half a dozen Virginians, some local Pennsylvanians, and maybe Delaware's George Reed are riding or walking along Market Street between 3rd and 4th Streets. These are the thus far in Philly convention delegates. And from Market Street, they're turning down an alley to reach a handsome, three-story red brick home: the home of Benjamin Franklin. That's right, Ben's back from France. He returned to Philly in 1785, and since then, he's added a three-story wing to his Philadelphian home. And, get this? The entire second floor of his home is his library.

• 16:31Speaker 00

  The whole floor. It holds 4,276 books. And, Ben being Ben, he's invented a mechanical arm to reach those on the highest shelves. And does Ben show off his two-headed snake? A believer in single-chamber legislatures, he's invoked the two-headed circum before to argue against bicameral legislative bodies. Either way, the delegates soon gather in his newly remodeled dining room on the ground floor, in which the philosophical Philadelphian will proudly tell you he can wine and dine up to 24 people at once. Two days from now, Ben will write to Thomas Jordan about this dinner. Thomas had previously sent Ben a cask of porter, and this thank-you letter

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  will describe the dining delegates' delight in drinking it. It's, quote, Ben:

• 17:21Speaker 02

  "The cask was broached, and its contents met with the most cordial reception and universal approbation. In short, the company agreed unanimously that it was the best porter they had ever tasted."

• 17:39Speaker 00

  So Ben detailed the drink, not the discussion. Yet, we can hardly overstate the importance of this dinner conversation. As the mostly, if not exclusively, Virginians and Pennsylvanians break bread with the two greatest icons of the Revolution: 55-year-old George Washington and 81-year-old Benjamin Franklin. Both are likely, as constitutional scholar Richard Beeman speculates, preaching the importance of the Union to the preservation of American independence. As commander of the Continental Army, George saw how a Congress capable of raising but incapable of funding an army nearly cost them the war. As America's foremost diplomat, Ben knows just how cutthroat

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  and Realpolitik international diplomacy is: that the 13 states need each other to navigate relations with Britain, France, and Spain now just as much as they did back in 1754 when he first printed his sliced-up serpent "Join or Die" political cartoon. And as the delegates listen, their buzzed minds, all the more open thanks to an excellent cask of porter, they're uniting on the realization that they're not here to revise the Articles of Confederation. They're here to kill the Articles and replace them with an altogether better form of Union.

• 19:02Speaker 00

  To that end, the Virginia and Pennsylvania delegates spend the next week talking. They start each day at the State House, meeting new arrivals, like New York's Alexander Hamilton, who shows up May 18th. But once it's clear they still lack the numbers to convene the convention, it's down to the City Tavern, a favorite haunt of revolutionaries during the war, or Indian Queen Tavern. With pints in hand, the small clique continues crafting a plan for a stronger union. Or rather, they continue finessing a plan already well in the works, cooked up in the mind of James Madison. All right, time for that proper introduction. A son of the slave-reliant planter class, James hails from the Montpelier Plantation

• 19:46Speaker 00

  in Orange County, Virginia. Finishing his studies at Princeton in 1772, he returned home to serve the Revolution, first on the Orange County Committee of Safety, then in the Virginia Legislature, on Governor Thomas Jefferson's counsel, where the two definitely bonded, and finally, in Congress as the Articles of Confederation took effect, where he saw firsthand the need for a better union. Hence his passion for it. And, as already established, James played a bigger role in organizing this convention in Philly than anyone save, possibly, Alexander Hamilton, a matter that their respective fans will debate forever. Now James is in Philadelphia, and he's done his homework.

• 20:29Speaker 00

  Influenced by French philosopher Bernd de Montesquieu, he arrived with well-developed ideas on the separation of powers, and a vision for a robust two-house national legislature, where population and wealth would determine a state's representation, rather than the current system of one vote per state. And as much as he hates the convention's delayed start, it's really becoming a blessing in disguise. A sickly hypochondriac, one who mumbles when speaking publicly, a 36-year-old man who's balding, shy, and famously short, in fact, the 5'4" Virginian is known as Little Jimmy, James likely couldn't sell his ideas on the convention floor.

• 21:12Speaker 00

  But seated with the Pennsylvanians and his fellow Virginians, first at Ben's House, then daily in an intimate tavern setting, that's doable for the reserved introvert. In short, yes, pun intended, the Virginians and Pennsylvanians are talking, but really, they're refining James "Little Jimmy" Madison's ideas. He is the architect of what they plan to pitch as "The Virginia Plan."

• 21:41Speaker 00

  The pre-gaming ends after 11 days of delay, on May 25th, 1787, as 27 delegates representing seven states form a sufficient quorum. This is day one, but the Virginia Plan doesn't come out just yet. Today's about getting the convention in order. They unanimously elect George Washington as convention president, and former Continental Officer William Jackson is named secretary. But William won't be our lone note-taker. Scholarly-minded James Madison joins him at the table just to the right of George's, at the front of the room, to take his own copious notes. And thank you, James. While William does the basics of his job, his notes are Spartan.

• 22:23Speaker 00

  Future Secretary of State John Quincy Adams will have strong words about William's inadequacies. It's Little Jimmy who will give us the juicy details. Following the only full weekend the convention will ever take, the only break on Sundays from here on out, Benjamin Franklin arrives on May 28th. Kidney stones detained him last Friday, but despite his ill health, the aging Philadelphian manages to get to the convention, and in style. Four convicts carry him on a sedan chair, and incredibly, he'll make it to all convention sessions from here on out. But enough warm-up, the Virginians and Pennsylvanians are ready to pitch the Virginia Plan.

• 23:04Speaker 00

  No one knows it better than Little Jimmy, of course, but again, the man is shy. Sales aren't his strong suit, so they turn to one of the most suave, eloquent, and influential of delegates to do it.

• 23:22Speaker 00

  It's Tuesday morning, May 29th, 1787. We're in the Pennsylvania State House Assembly Room, the very room in which the second Continental Congress approved the Declaration of Independence a little over a decade ago. It's elegant, but not ostentatious. Approximately 40 feet square, it has wide plank pine floors, and two massive marble fireplaces set, and a stone-gray east wall, dressed in molding, colonnades, and a frieze. Seated in a high-backed chair on a raised dais between those fireplaces is convention president George Washington. Before him are perhaps three dozen delegates, now representing nine of the 13 states.

• 24:05Speaker 00

  They sit in Windsor chairs, behind tables draped in a green just a few shades darker than those of the curtains, and are discussing a rule imposing strict secrecy on the convention's proceedings, a move to encourage free discussion and brainstorming. As they approve it, in the back corner, at Virginia's table, sits one who's about to make this convention far more interesting: Governor Edmund Randolph. With the rules set, the handsome, husky Virginian governor rises, and he starts with what appears to be "in the spirit of the Congress of the Confederation's call from last February." "Resolved that the Articles of Confederation ought to be so corrected and enlarged as

• 24:48Speaker 00

  to accomplish the objects proposed by their institution, namely, common defense, security of liberty, and general welfare." Okay, so far, so good. That's what this convention is about. Then the dark-haired governor continues. He calls for a "national legislature," but not one where every state gets one equal vote, like the current Congress. He suggests one based on quotas of contribution, or to the number of free inhabitants. In other words, by-state population minus enslaved Americans. And this national legislature should have two branches.

• 25:33Speaker 00

  He's also calling for a "national executive," a "national judiciary." He then doubles back to the national legislature specifying it should "legislate in all cases to which the separate states are incompetent, or in which the harmony of the United States may be interrupted by the exercise of individual legislation, to negative all laws passed by the several states contravening in the opinion of the national legislature." Oh, hold up. Negative all laws passed by the several states? In other words, it could overpower the states.

• 26:14Speaker 00

  Meanwhile, a council of revision will have power to veto all national laws, and where a state law crosses national interests, even state laws. Edmund speaks for hours. He's eloquent and respectful, but by the time he's done with this 15-point proposal, this "Virginia Plan," it's clear that he's proposing far more than correcting or enlarging the Articles. He's proposing completely replacing them with a "national government." Some nod along, as Edmund elaborates, but not William Patterson.

• 26:53Speaker 00

  He will not see his state's independence gobbled up by these nationalists. Seated at New Jersey's table along the back wall, the longtime patriot and lawyer scratches out a note. "Objection: Sovereignty is an integral thing."

• 27:18Speaker 00

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• 31:01Speaker 00

  As the morning of May 29, 1787, gives way to afternoon with Governor Edmund Randolph elaborating, let's pause and absorb the tension coursing through the Pennsylvania State House Assembly Room. A tension between needing to save this union and the distrust that could kill the attempt. First, everyone here knows the Articles have failed. No one has forgotten Shay's Rebellion, and they get that a union too weak to enforce itself is too weak to regulate relations between the states, to put down rebellions, or worse, to stave off territory-hungry European powers.

• 31:45Speaker 00

  Even William Patterson knows something must be done. But cutting against that is the second truth: These states are sovereign. I can't overstate this. In 1787, the 13 states are 13 independent American nations, and this convention is, quote, "for the sole and express purpose of revising the Articles of Confederation," close quote. Nothing more. Nothing that smacks of the British-style big-government tyranny they just ditched. Yet, that's exactly what surrendering state sovereignty feels like, especially to the small states. That's why tiny Delaware forbade its delegates from even giving up one vote per state in

• 32:29Speaker 00

  Congress, and why an even more suspicious Rhode Island simply refused to come. That's right. This is really a convention of 12 states. So when the governor proposes killing the Articles outright to institute a "national government" with an executive, judiciary, and powerful legislature on Day Three, it lands, as common sense to some, a nightmare to others, and for more than a few, probably both at once. It takes hours for Edmund to detail the whole Virginia Plan, but by the time he's done, the delegates are ready to call it a day. Then, South Carolina's Charles Pinckney pipes up, saying he has a plan to share before they adjourn.

• 33:14Speaker 00

  Charles will later claim that what he pitches is the real basis of the future Constitution, that he is its true father, not James Madison. But in truth, his ill-recorded plan is as good as dead already. The next day, May 30, as the convention meets as a committee of the whole, Edmund Randolph proposes they consider three resolutions before diving into the nitty-gritty of the Virginia Plan. The idea is to get the convention to agree on broad strokes first, a brilliant move, one dreamed up by Pennsylvania's Gouverneur Morris. Now, Gouverneur is quite a character. Most importantly, he was one of the Revolution's financial saviors, the very man who coined

• 33:58Speaker 00

  America's use of dollars and cents. But this towering, handsome, large-in-statue Philadelphian is also a playboy in Bon Vivant. Not even the loss of his left leg in a carriage accident in 1780 has slowed his love life with single or married ladies. Indeed, John Jay was referencing Gouverneur's amorous exploits when he roped to their mutual friend, Robert Morris, no relation. That, I am almost tempted to wish he had lost something else in that fateful accident. In 1784, Alexander Hamilton dared Gouverneur to give George Washington a friendly slap on the back. He actually did it. The dead silence that followed was super awkward, but that all gives you a sense of

• 34:43Speaker 00

  the kind of daring and swab that Gouverneur has, which comes to bear in this peg-legged Pennsylvanians' suggested resolutions delivered via the Virginia Governor. These resolutions are: First, that a "union of states merely federal" isn't doing it. I know we'll later call the US government "the federal government," but, two things: One, federal doesn't have the meaning you and I will know it by yet. In 1780s America, the words "federal" and "confederal" are often used interchangeably to express the same loose-alliance idea.

• 35:23Speaker 00

  Both words come from the Latin "foius," meaning "a league, truce, pact, or alliance." Two, the Virginia Plan is the launching pad, not the actual outcome. It is proposing a strong "national government," as in, state sovereignty dies. Hence, the plan's advocates are nationalists at this point, even if we'll later call many of these guys "federalists" very soon. So don't let what American federalism will later become throw you off now. Moving to the second resolution, it reads in part, quote, "that no treaty among individual sovereignies would be sufficient," close quote.

• 36:07Speaker 00

  Building on the Latin root, I'll remind you of my NATO comparison. In short, he wants to establish that a mere alliance of 13 nations isn't hacking it. They need a nation, and the Articles have to go. The third resolution reads, "that a 'national government' ought to be established consisting of a supreme legislative, executive, and judiciary." If all three of these resolutions are agreed to, the Virginia Plan will be on strong footing. Charles Pinckney pushes Edmund, asking if he means "to abolish the state governments altogether."

• 36:48Speaker 00

  The governor says no, while another South Carolinian Pinckney, General Pinckney, and Massachusetts's Elbridge Derry question the convention's authority to entertain nationalism. There's an attempt to delay, an attempt to soften. Both fail, and as the convention considers this third resolution, six states vote aye. Connecticut votes no, while New York splits between Alexander Hamilton's assent and Robert Yates's disapproval. Oh, wow. They just opened the Pandora's Box of exploring a "national and supreme government." And now, the Virginia Plan will drive deliberations for the next two weeks.

• 37:31Speaker 00

  By mid-June, the delegates are envisioning a two-house legislature with proportional representation, a single-person executive serving a seven-year term, a national judiciary with the supreme judiciary at its head, and they've cut the Council of Revision. But the small states are not pleased. They won't let Virginia, with its nearly 750,000 inhabitants, or Pennsylvania and its over 400,000 inhabitants, push them around. Not if William Patterson can help it.

• 38:09Speaker 00

  It's Saturday, June 9th, 1787. Gathered as usual in the Pennsylvania State House Assembly Room with the windows shut to guard against eavesdropping. The convention has welcomed Maryland's newly arrived Luther Martin and is now listening to Elbridge Gerry argue that state governors should elect the national executive. The Lyth, Massachusetts man also believes each governor's vote should be waited, that governors from bigger states should have more voting power than those from smaller states. Governor Edmund Randolph rises. Though a Virginian, he strongly disagrees, arguing that this would ensure the small states never held the executive office and would have no say. They vote.

• 38:52Speaker 00

  Save for divided Delaware, every state says no. New Jersey's William Patterson now takes the floor. This Irish-American, Princeton grad, and former New Jersey Attorney General is tired of these proportional representation arguments, which he sees as nothing less than an attack on small states and state sovereignty. William declares: "We have no power to go beyond the federal scheme. A confederacy supposes sovereignty in the members composing it, and sovereignty supposes equality. If we are to be considered as a nation, all state distinctions must be abolished."

• 39:32Speaker 00

  He also challenges the veiled threat made by the brilliant but less tactful Pennsylvanian, James Wilson, who implies the large states might form a union without the small states if they don't get on board with congressional representation by population instead of one vote per state. Says William: "Let them unite if they please, but let them remember that they have no authority to compel the others to unite. New Jersey will never confederate on the plan before the committee. She'd be swallowed up. I would rather submit to a monarch, to a despot, than to such a fate." James Wilson counters: "We have been told that each state being sovereign, all are equal.

• 40:17Speaker 00

  So each man is naturally a sovereign over himself, and all men are therefore naturally equal. Can he retain this equality when he becomes a member of civil government? He cannot. As little can a sovereign state when it becomes a member of a federal government. If New Jersey will not part with her sovereignty, it is in vain to talk of government." A vote is called in support of proportional representation. William urges that it might be best to wait. A hushed silence fills the room. Yes, a good idea. No vote today.

• 40:54Speaker 00

  A week later, on Friday, June 15th, William Patterson takes the convention in an entirely new direction by introducing his New Jersey plan. It opens: "Resolved that the Articles of Confederation ought to be revised, corrected, and enlarged." Sound familiar? Yeah, with the addition of revised, it's word for word the same as the Virginia plan's first resolution. I like to imagine James Madison's balding head turning bright red as he hears this. What can I say? I like William's wry sense of humor. The New Jersey plan does call for an enlarged government.

• 41:36Speaker 00

  It too is a three-branch system and empowers Congress to tax. But it's also closer to the Articles: keeping Congress a unicameral legislature and maintaining the one vote per state. Ah, state sovereignty reasserted. The small states are going to dig this plan. The big states won't. Go figure. Debate continues the next day, June 16th. Pennsylvania's James Wilson goes on the attack against this New Jersey plan. James argues that its proposed one house, or unicameral Congress, is "legislative despotism." He explains: "If the legislative authority be not restrained, there can be neither liberty nor stability,

• 42:21Speaker 00

  and it can only be restrained by dividing it within itself into distinct and independent branches. In a single house, there is no check but the inadequate one of the virtue and good sense of those who compose it." Charles P. Pinni claims that William Patterson's complaint is less about sovereignty and more about power in the legislature. According to the South Carolinian, "Give New Jersey an equal vote, and she will dismiss her scruples and concur in the national system." The delegates continue to lock horns over the New Jersey plan and the question of population versus state votes for the next few days. Some, like Connecticut's Roger Sherman, are mulling something more creative than a win-lose proposition.

• 43:06Speaker 00

  But as if debating the Virginia and New Jersey plans isn't enough, there's still one more delegate who just can't help but put his ideas out there. It's Monday, June 18th, 1787. As usual, delegates are gathered in the sweltering Assembly Room inside the Pennsylvania State House. John Dickinson moves to postpone a vote on William Patterson's New Jersey plan, which carries: "That done, a violet, blue-eyed, reddish-brown-haired and handsome, early-30s New Yorker takes the floor. It's Alexander Hamilton. Declaring himself unfriendly to both the Virginia and New Jersey plans, Alex lists

• 43:51Speaker 00

  his "essential principles of government," which includes this: "Men love power." Indeed, between his youth in the Caribbean and life as a Continental officer, Alex has a profoundly negative view of human nature, and it informs his views on government. In brief, Alex proposes a plan to get the best of both republicanism and, brace yourself, the old British monarchy. His legislature's lower house sounds familiar enough: representatives elected to three-year terms by universal male suffrage. But he wants the Senate and national executive, the latter called a governor, elected for

• 44:33Speaker 00

  life, though impeachable if they behave badly. He also wants the national government appointing state governors. Alex is riffing hard off of the British Crown and House of Lords. According to James Madison's notes, the New Yorker even says that: "The British government is the best in the world." Clearly, this is not robust democracy, and Alex knows it. His fellow New Yorker, Robert Yates, will later recall Alex ending on a complaint about both the Virginia and New Jersey plans and an over-reliance on democracy, saying that: "The people begin to tire of an excess of democracy.

• 45:11Speaker 00

  And what even is the Virginia plan but pork still with a little change of the sauce?" A lot to unpack. Let's start with Alex's beef with democracy, or more accurately, with unbridled democracy. And with that caveat, he's far from alone. Back on May 31st, Massachusetts's Elbridge Gerry said: "The evils we experience flow from the excess of democracy. The people do not want virtue but are the dupes of pretended patriots." Others echo this. Between hard experiences and their study of history, these guys know how badly direct democracy can end.

• 45:54Speaker 00

  They fear tyranny at both ends: from kings above and mobs below. But did Alex go too far? Is he a closeted monarchist? No. In his mind, an executive who remains both elected and impeachable is not a king. Alex explains that: "By making the executive subject to impeachment, the term monarchy cannot apply." Frankly, the brash New Yorker may not have shared his idea for a British-flavored republic if not emboldened by the secrecy rule. But alas, word will leak, and one day, political foes will brand this war hero and arguably

• 46:36Speaker 00

  greatest advocate of the Constitution's ratification a closeted monarchist. This six-hour speech will prove one of his costliest mistakes. As for its reception in the room, it's exactly what you'd expect for a genius who doesn't know when to shut up. Connecticut's Dr. William Johnson puts it best, to quote him: "Though he, Alexander Hamilton, had been praised by everybody, he has been supported by none."

• 47:07Speaker 00

  With Alex's plan now as dead as Charles Pinkney's, the convention also adds the New Jersey Plan to its ideas graveyard the following day, June 19th. James Madison lands the final blow. In a long speech, he methodically demolishes the New Jersey Plan, reminding all that they must not only preserve the Union but fix what's broken. He questions, then illustrates how this plan would fail to stop foreign entanglements, manage affairs between the states, or put down rebellions, like Shay's. Then he turns the small states' own fears against them, pointing out that a government too weak to act can't protect them from the larger states.

• 47:52Speaker 00

  As he so vividly puts it, "It is the cobweb which could entangle the weak, but would be the sport of the strong." Hey, looks like shy little Jimmy has found his voice. And indeed, he'll end up speaking more than the vast majority here before this convention is through. Following James's speech, Rufus King of Massachusetts asks if the delegates would prefer to continue with the New Jersey Plan or circle back to the Virginia Plan. Delaware, New York, and New Jersey, vote for the New Jersey Plan. All others besides divided Maryland, vote for the Virginia Plan. And with that, William Patterson's plan is laid to rest. James Madison's is resurrected.

• 48:33Speaker 00

  And that means renewed debate over the Virginia Plan's proposed population-based representation in the legislature. Connecticuter Roger Sherman has this. Back on June 11th, he suggested a compromise. To quote him, "The first branch should be according to the respective numbers of free inhabitants, and that, in the second branch or Senate, each state should have one vote and no more." Smart. He reiterates this on June 20th, but the delegates aren't ready to heed such rational thought yet. A week later, Maryland's Luther Martin gives a terrible, rambling, two-day speech against proportional representation. Given that Luther is what we in the 21st century will call a "high-functioning alcoholic",

• 49:18Speaker 00

  the delegates and future historians will forever wonder if he's utterly plastered. Alas, we'll never know. With the deadlock feeling hopeless, Benjamin Franklin suggests the convention turn to God and prayer.

• 49:31Speaker 02

  How has it happened, sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of Lights to eliminate our understandings? In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayer in this room for the divine protection.

• 49:52Speaker 00

  According to one account, Alexander Hamilton answers, "I do not see the necessity of calling in foreign aid." Now, that account comes 38 years after the fact, and even James Madison will say it isn't true. But knowing Alex's sense of humor, well, there's a reason the legend will take hold. But regardless of what Alex does or doesn't say in this moment, the truth is this: the convention is at an impasse. The Union is in danger. And the delegates can't even agree on whether to call on God for help. History That Doesn't Suck is supported by Vistaprint.

• 50:34Speaker 00

  This podcast is a small business passion project, and seeing our vision come to life offline is cool too, thanks to our expert partner, Vistaprint. On my recent book tour, we were able to order custom, high-quality banners for book readings. It also added a nice professional polish. It also made the events more memorable because readers and I could pose together in front of the banner for selfies to post online. And that's just one of the countless premium products Vistaprint offers to elevate your brand identity. From postcards and posters to tumblers and t-shirts, Vistaprint makes high-end, custom printing accessible to everyone, giving you exceptional quality and results that make every single dollar go further. With real people on standby and seamless tools, Vistaprint guides you through every step of the process so you always look completely polished.

• 51:18Speaker 00

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• 52:03Speaker 00

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• 52:58Speaker 00

  On June 29th, 1787, Alexander Hamilton leaves the convention temporarily to attend to personal affairs back home in New York. But his two fellow New Yorkers, Robert Yates and John Lansing Jr., leave permanently on July 10th, utterly disgusted by the Virginia Plan's proposed national government. Two Maryland delegates, including high-functioning alcoholic Luther Martin, will eventually leave for the same reason. This means the Empire State is currently unrepresented, and with Rhode Island's boycott and New Hampshire's delegates yet to arrive, only 10 states are now represented. Finally, an upswing. On July 16th, the two-week-old grand committee established to find compromise between the

• 53:43Speaker 00

  Virginia Plan's proposed "population-based representation in the legislature" and the old "state sovereignty protecting one vote per state" model turns to what committee member Roger Sherman suggested almost a month ago: "Population for the lower house and state equality in the upper." Eureka! Details remain, but this leads to the system you and I are familiar with: the population-based House of Representatives and two senators per state. The deal is known as the Connecticut, or Sherman Compromise, to honor the Connecticuter most behind it. Another representation question is also resolved mid-July. Should enslaved African-Americans count Portis State's representation in the lower

• 54:25Speaker 00

  house? The northern states, where the institution of slavery is mostly dead or dying—Massachusetts has ended slavery, and most others save New York and New Jersey, both of which will soon follow, have gradual emancipation laws phasing it out—don't want slaves counted at all. They have nothing to gain from it. But southern states absolutely want them counted. There's a big difference in Virginia's number of House Representatives if they count the state's almost 450,000 free citizens only and not the Old Dominion's further 300,000 enslaved. According to the not-too-distant 1790 census, 43% of South Carolinians are enslaved.

• 55:10Speaker 00

  Counting enslaved Americans would significantly increase southern representation and therefore power in Congress. Back in 1783, when the Congress of the Confederation passed a toothless revenue measure requesting funds from the states based on population, they kicked around compromises by counting some fraction of enslaved Americans: half, three-fourths. They landed on three-fifths. That precedent returns here as "the three-fifths compromise," which will count three out of five enslaved Americans in a state for both representation and taxation purposes. To quote from what will become the Constitution's Article 1, Section 2, "Representatives and

• 55:53Speaker 00

  direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, excluding Indians not taxed, three-fifths of all other persons." Yes, "persons" is the euphemism the convention uses for slaves. The word "slave" will not appear in the U.S. Constitution, a fact that John Dickinson, the very same pamphlet-writing penman of the Revolution whom we saw initially oppose independence in the Second Continental Congress back in Episode 8, finds appalling. A former slaveholder who has unconditionally freed the dozens he once owned out of a devotion

• 56:38Speaker 00

  to Quaker beliefs and American liberty, he privately writes this of the three-fifths compromise: "Acting before the world, what will be said of this new principle of founding a right to govern freemen on a power derived from slaves? The omitting of the word will be regarded as an endeavor to conceal a principle of which we are ashamed." Well put, John. Now, why would anti-slavery delegates like John go along? First, let's not overstate their numbers: they're in the minority. But primarily, they are making, in the context of this 18th-century world, what constitutional

• 57:19Speaker 00

  historian Richard Beeman calls, quote, "a bargain that recognized the hard, unchangeable facts of political life." He's referring to the fact that the South would truly walk otherwise. Indeed, even as they avoid the word, slavery is lurking in the shadows as "the real division in the room." So much so, that even after all the real friction we've seen between the big and small states, James Madison says, to quote him, "The great division did not lie between the large and small states; it lay between the northern and southern." He goes on to identify the sticking point as being, to quote once more, "principally

• 58:02Speaker 00

  from the effects of their having or not having slaves."

• 58:10Speaker 00

  With this compromise made and New Hampshire’s delegates finally present, the convention takes a 10-day recess from July 27th through August 5th, during which the Committee of Detail crafts a first draft of the Constitution. chaired by South Carolina’s John Rutledge, the committee adds a few good ideas, like an amendment process. This draft consists of 23 articles. As revision continues on August 13th, returned and lone New York delegate Alexander Hamilton pushes against a plan to require members of Congress to be native-born, arguing, “Persons in Europe of moderate fortunes will be fond of coming here, where they will be on a level with the first citizens.”

• 58:52Speaker 00

  As a Caribbean-born immigrant himself, it’s not surprising Alex is the one to fight this battle. Ultimately, the “native-born” idea only sticks with the office of President. Toward the end of the month, slavery again rears its ugly head, this time on the question of importing slaves. The situation is this: Northerners worry about the southern states continuing to bring Africans across the Atlantic against their will to boost their representation in Congress. Meanwhile, southerners, whose economy is reliant on slavery and agricultural exports, want a two-thirds-majority requirement to pass Navigation Acts for fear that the North’s ship-controlling merchants will take advantage of them.

• 59:36Speaker 00

  As before, South Carolina and Georgia are particularly unbending, saying that giving any real ground would kill any prospect of ratification. South Carolina’s General Pinckney assures the convention that, “It would be of no avail toward obtaining the assent of our constituents. South Carolina and Georgia cannot do without slaves.” They compromise in late August. Congress will only need a simple majority to pass Navigation Acts, and in exchange, Congress cannot regulate the Atlantic slave trade for another 20 years, until 1808. As a conflicted, slavery-reliant southerner himself, James Madison sees the evil in this second Faustian bargain.

• 1:00:20Speaker 00

  He laments, “20 years will produce all the mischief that can be apprehended from the liberty to import slaves. So long a term will be more dishonorable to the national character than to say nothing about it in the Constitution.” The slave states win a final victory three days later, on August 28th, with the Fugitive Slave Clause. This makes it a constitutional statement of fact that enslaved Americans who run away and make it to a free state are not free in the eyes of the government and can be returned to slavery. Once again, the word “slave” is avoided, but everyone knows what the clause means. One cannot help but wonder:

• 1:01:02Speaker 00

  What do George Washington’s enslaved men here in Philadelphia? His horse-tending and carriage-driving duo, Giles and Paris? Or the longtime valet we met back in the Revolutionary Episodes, William Billy Lee? Think of all this. Does George share any of the three slavery compromises with Billy, to whom he feels so very close? Do these three ever speculate on what this convention might mean to them during those quiet moments not spent attending to our beloved Virginian generals’ transportation attire and comfort? We’ll never know.

• 1:01:39Speaker 00

  In early September, another sticky question is put to rest: Presidential elections. Here’s where they’re coming from: The delegates don’t want to give more power to the legislature by allowing it to choose the powerful, single-person executive. But as we saw when talking about Alexander’s plan, they also fear too much direct democracy. Further, direct elections would make the small states meaningless. And since most Americans barely know anyone in other states, how could they judge a candidate from beyond their borders? The delegates’ answer is the Electoral College. Each state gets as many electors as they have members in Congress, that is, congressional reps and senators combined.

• 1:02:22Speaker 00

  Side note: This means the three-fifths compromise gives the South a boost here, too. Each state decides how to choose its electors, who, in turn, do the presidential voting. The electors do so in their respective states, never meeting nationally to avoid possible intrigue. Each votes for two people: The person with the majority becoming President, the runner-up Vice President. If no one gets a majority, the House of Representatives chooses from the top five candidates. This will get modified, years from now, by the 12th Amendment, and evolve dramatically. But that’s a story for another day. On September 8th, a committee of style is appointed to write the final draft of the Constitution, even as the convention continues to make changes.

• 1:03:07Speaker 00

  The committee includes the wit and eloquence of James Madison and Alexander Hamilton, and yet, Gouverneur Morris is the one responsible for much of the wording. And fair enough: No one spoke more at this convention than him. So you can thank this one-legged Don Juan for the eloquence of the preamble that begins “We the people.” The draft is finished around September 11th. September 12th, only days away from finishing this four-month convention, Virginia’s George Mason raises a point: “What about a Declaration or Bill of Rights?” A natural question from the author of Virginia’s Declaration of Rights, but this is shot down fast. Many states have their own such declarations,

• 1:03:50Speaker 00

  so wouldn’t adding one be redundant? Well, right or wrong, guided by that logic, the convention quickly moves forward without one.

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  September 15th, one of the longest days at the convention as they fine-tune the document with small but meaningful edits. For instance, anti-slavery delegates feel a win as the Fugitive Slave Clause in Article 4, Section 2, changes from “person legally held to service or labor” to “person held to service or labor.” Removing the word “legally” removes an implication of morality or justification for slavery. They now have a seven-artikel document. The first three explain, respectively: The law-making powers of the two House Legislature, Congress; The executive office, or President, which, chosen by the Electoral College,

• 1:04:47Speaker 00

  will serve for four years; The particularly vaguely-described judiciary; And how the three branches hold their separate powers and check and balance power. Article 4 defines the relationship between the states. Article 5 provides an amendment process, while Article 6 states that federal laws will be supreme. Article 7 explains the ratification process, which requires each state to hold a ratifying convention. If nine of the 13 states give their blessing, then this Constitution will become the law of the land. All in all, they’ve produced a Constitution that is, as James Madison will later argue in Federalist 39,

• 1:05:29Speaker 00

  “a hybrid of national government and Confederacy.” Despite confederalism or federalism being used as synonyms in the 18th century, this hybrid comes to be the new meaning of federalism, or more specifically, of American federalism. And as September 15th comes to a close, they vote on whether to accept this Constitution as amended. The outcome, as James Madison tells us, “All the states, aye.” But remember, even with unanimous state approval, the “people” of the states must ratify it. And on that point, each man in this room will carry immense influence. So a question lingers over the next two days:

• 1:06:12Speaker 00

  Will the individual delegates put their names to it?

• 1:06:20Speaker 00

  It’s Monday, September 17th, 1787, and this convention has been hard. Locked in Philadelphia’s hot, sweltering State House, six days a week for four months, the delegates’ disagreements have been sharp. Of the total 55 delegates who have attended, four have full-on rage quit, and only a little more than 40 are currently present. Alexander Hamilton is the only New Yorker left, and Rhode Island never even sent a delegation. So, at this point, every remaining man’s choice to sign or not could be this Constitution’s making or undoing. In this moment, elderly Benjamin Franklin wishes to say a word.

• 1:07:01Speaker 00

  It’s been 33 years since he published that “Join or Die” cartoon, published in response to the military challenges then faced in the Ohio Valley by this convention’s president, George Washington. He’s too old and ill to speak at length, but Ben hands a written speech to his colleague, James Wilson, who proceeds to read the old Renaissance man’s prepared words: “I confess that there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them. For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information or fuller consideration

• 1:07:45Speaker 00

  to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise. It is therefore that, the older I grow, the more apt I am to doubt my own judgment and to pay more respect to the judgment of others. You assemble a number of men to have the advantage of their joint wisdom. You inevitably assemble with those men all their prejudices, their passions, their errors of opinion, their local interests, and their selfish views. From such an assembly, can a perfect production be expected? It therefore astonishes me, sir, to find this system approaching so near to perfection as it does.

• 1:08:29Speaker 00

  On the whole, sir, I cannot help expressing a wish that every member of the convention who may still have objections to it would, with me on this occasion, doubt a little of his own infallibility and to make manifest our unanimity. Put his name to this instrument.”

• 1:08:52Speaker 00

  The Constitution isn't perfect, and many criticisms are for opposite reasons. William Parson thinks the federal government is too strong. Alexander Hamilton thinks it's too weak. Meanwhile, Ben Franklin undoubtedly sees this bicameral Congress as a two-headed snake. But, as Ben's words, delivered by James so eloquently observed, it's closer to perfection than the Articles. It's a more perfect Union. Thus, with the humility to acknowledge their own shortcomings, faith in the amendment process, and more to the point, faith in the people, nearly all remaining delegates,

• 1:09:32Speaker 00

  all save George Mason, who wants a Bill of Rights, Elbridge Gerry, who has a list of concerns, and ironically, a deeply pained and conflicted Governor Edmund Randolph, who fears they've created too strong a Congress, sign the Constitution. That's how thirty-nine men from twelve states came to put their names to this instrument. And naturally, Ben has the last word. As the last delegate signs on this fateful September seventeenth, this ancient Philadelphian looks to George Washington's presidential chair, to the highly decorative sun carved into its top rail and comets.

• 1:10:15Speaker 02

  Painters have found it difficult to distinguish in their art a rising from a setting sun. I have often, in the course of the session and the vicissitudes of my hopes and fears as to its issue, looked at that behind the president without being able to tell whether it was rising or setting. But now at length, I have the happiness to know that it is a rising and not a setting sun.

• 1:10:44Speaker 00

  And so, with a total of thirty-nine signatures, the convention closes, and the delegates make their way to City Tavern, one last time for drinks. We have no meaningful record of this evening of merriment at City Tavern, but we do have a fantastic record of a dinner party here just three nights before, Friday, September fourteenth. This dinner included George Washington, veterans who bravely crossed the Delaware under his command on Christmas Day, 1776, the light horse of Philadelphia Cavalry Corps, and some

• 1:11:23Speaker 00

  historians speculate, though we can't prove, a fair number of convention delegates. According to the bill, Friday night's group of fifty-five men drank sixty bottles of claret, fifty-four bottles of Madeira wine, twenty-two bottles of porter, twelve bottles of beer, eight bottles of cider, and seven bowls of punch. And, given that it's 1787, that punch truly punches. Add to that food, live music, cigars, and the cost of broken decanters and wine glasses, well, the total comes to eighty-nine pounds, four shillings and two pence.

• 1:12:05Speaker 00

  To put that in early 21st century terms, more than fifteen thousand dollars. While George Washington undoubtedly enjoys his drink in moderation, being the self-restrained and well-mannered icon that he is, wow, those soldiers and the likely delegates can drink. So, do tonight's drinks at this final delegate bash match up to Friday's? We'll never know for sure, but regardless of the unknowable details, cheers, gents, or if I may offer a toast reminiscent of the era, God save our American states. And that sentiment isn't just my toast, it's a real read on the ground.

• 1:12:49Speaker 00

  On the final day of the convention, an inquisitive woman, Elizabeth Willing Powell, asked Ben Franklin, as he left the State House, just what the delegates had made, a monarchy or a republic? Ben answered.

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  A republic, madam, if you can keep it.

• 1:13:08Speaker 00

  If you can keep it. Yeah, because that's what a republic is. The burden, the work of governance rests in the hands of the people. It's up to them to decide what to do with it. And so, will the people keep it? Or will they kill this proposed constitutional republic before it even gets a chance to breathe? This Union's troubles are far from over as the debate over the Constitution's ratification seizes the capitals of all the American states. It will mean a bare-knuckled fight, sometimes literally, between this Constitution's supporters,

• 1:13:47Speaker 00

  the Federalists, and its ardent foes, the Anti-Federalists. History That Doesn't Suck is created and hosted by me, Greg Jackson. Episode researched and written by Greg Jackson. Executive editor Riley Newbauer. Benjamin Franklin read by Benjamin Franklin interpreter Mitchell Kramer. Learn more at BFranklin.org. Mercy Otis Warren read by Lila Jackson. Production by Airship. Audio editing by Mohammed Shazade. Sound design by Molly Bach. Theme music composed by Greg Jackson. Arrangement and additional composition by Lindsey Graham of Airship.

• 1:14:30Speaker 00

  For bibliography of all primary and secondary sources consulted in writing this episode, visit htdspodcast.com. HTDS is supported by fans at htdspodcast.com/membership. My gratitude to you kind souls providing funding to help us keep going, thank you. And a special thanks to our patrons whose monthly gift puts them at producer status. Adam Goran, Ahmaud Chapman, Amy and Ross Hensman, Andrew Nissen, Andrew Sherwin, Anna M. Hutter, Art Lang, Baby Nico, Bob Stinnan, Bonnie Brooks, Ryan Gavigan, Ryan Boils, Ryan Goodson,

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  Bledsoe, James Blue, James Schlender, Jarrett Zungora, Jeffrey Moots, Jennifer Mingioni, Jennifer Ruth, Jessica Poppin, Joe Dobis, John Booby, John Frugal Dougal, John Huber, John Messmer, John Oliveros, John Radlavage, John Schaefer, Jonathan Schaff, Jordan Corbett, Joseph Curry, Joshua Steiner, Julian Wright, Justin Tolman, Karen Bartholomew, Carl Friedman, Carl Romer, Ken Culver, Kim R., Kimberly Pruitt, Kristen Pratt, Kyle Decker, L. Paul Goringer, Laura Norman, Lawrence Newbauer, Linda Cunningham, Mark D. Worrell, Mark Ellis, Marsha Smith, Mason Glenn, Matt Siegel, Michael Longest, Michael Sullivan, Nick Caprile, Nicholas

• 1:16:34Speaker 00

  Powell, Owen W. Sedlach, Paul Huguenroth, Philip May, Randy Keen, Rich Ruckel, Rick Brown, Rob Dravovic, Robert Shelton, Rock Day, Ryan Fogelman, Sam Holtzman, Sarah Prescott, Sarah Traywood, Scott Hurst, Shane Smith, Shannon Hoagland, Sharon Feasen, Sean Baines, Sean Collins, Stacy Ritter, Steve Williams, The Creepy Girl, Thomas Churchill, Thomas Matthew Edwards, Thomas Sabbath, Tim and Sarah Turner, Todd Curran, Tom Bastofka, Travis Cox, Walter M. Ames, Wesley McKee, William Durham, William Curry, William Thompson, and Zach Jackson. Join me in two weeks, or I'd like to tell you a story.