From the Archives: Patricia Bosworth

Mark Twain once likened biographies to “the clothes and buttons of the man” saying “the biography of the man himself cannot be written.” The quote is a favorite of Patricia Bosworth, a 1950s model-actor turned biographer known for capturing the lives of Diane Arbus, Montgomery Clift, and Marlon Brando. All three were revered and haunted by internal demons—a narrative she knows too well. Bosworth's own father, Bartley Crum, was a left-wing lawyer who famously defended the Hollywood Ten before succumbing to his own psychological pain. It was her father's suicide, as well as her brother's six years earlier, that instilled a strong desire to seek out the stories of other tormented souls. Patricia Bosworth's book The Men in My Life turns that voyage inward, painting a picture of a resilient woman with a tragic story of her own. Originally released August 22nd, 2017. Patricia Bosworth passed away on April 2nd, 2020. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 3:09Alec Baldwin?

  This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Mark Twain once likened biographies to what he called, quote, "the clothes and buttons of the man." He said, quote, "The biography of the man himself cannot be written." The quote is a favorite of Patricia Bosworth, a 1950's Broadway star turned biographer who, for 40 years, has been proving Twain's words wrong. In her books, Bosworth has captured the essence of elusive artists like Montgomery Clift, Marlon Brando, and New York underworld photographer Diane Arbus. These men and women were revered but broken, larger-than-life characters doomed to self-destruct.

• 3:51Alec Baldwin?

  It's a type Patricia Bosworth knows firsthand. Her own father, Bartley Crum, was a famous left-wing lawyer who, after an illustrious career that included defending members of the Hollywood Ten, ended his own life. It's her father's suicide, and that of her brother years earlier, that gave Bosworth a thirst to understand tormented souls. Her new book, The Men in My Life, turns that examination inward, exploring how those deaths shaped her and were linked to the fear and repression of that era. The third man in her life during that period was her abusive first husband, a frustrated artist she eloped with at age 19.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Harper Collins did not want me to name him since he tried to kill me, you know? They felt that he might object.

• 4:43Alec Baldwin?

  And he was a painter.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Wanted to be a painter, but he never painted anything except one painting.

• 4:47Alec Baldwin?

  But he seemed to be blaming everyone around him that he couldn't get any painting done.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  That's, that's right. That's right. I make jokes about it, but it actually was a horrible situation.

• 4:55Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 4:55Speaker 02

  I ran.

• 4:56Alec Baldwin?

  How old were you?

• 4:57Speaker 02

  I was 19. My husband was, was literally beating me up in a cab, and I kept telling him to stop. And finally, I said to the cab driver, "Please help me." And the guy just said, "He's the boss, lady." And he went right on, allowing my husband to beat at me. So I jumped out of the cab and ran to the traffic and got on a bus and went up to see my therapist in New Hampshire, because she had said, "If I really get into trouble, call me, I will be there for you." So I get there.

• 5:23Alec Baldwin?

  She's your New York therapist?

• 5:24Speaker 02

  She's my New York therapist.

• 5:25Alec Baldwin?

  And she said, "If you ever need me, call me." And now she's up in Vermont.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  She's Vermont, that's right.

• 5:30Alec Baldwin?

  And how did you get to Vermont?

• 5:31Speaker 02

  On a bus, because she had said, "If I really get into trouble, call me, I will be there for you." So I get there. I went to the Port Authority bus terminal, got on a bus, got up to Vermont.

• 5:41Alec Baldwin?

  And gave her no advance notice?

• 5:42Speaker 02

  No, I didn't. I showed up.

• 5:44Alec Baldwin?

  Ding dong.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Ding dong, opened the door, and there she is in a kimona, and I see sort of a man in the background. And I say, "I'm, I need help."

• 5:51Alec Baldwin?

  She's doing another kind of therapy right now.

• 5:53Speaker 02

  Exactly. And I said, "Please, I need help, my husband's beating me up." She said, "This is my vacation, we will talk when I return to New York in September." And she closed the door in my face, and I was totally, I didn't know where I was, I didn't know where, where to go. She literally shut the door in my face. I'm in a dusty, you know, little town, wandering down the street.

• 6:13Alec Baldwin?

  East of nowhere, Vermont.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. But I see this inn up ahead, and there are all these cars, and they're, I think.

• 6:19Alec Baldwin?

  People.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  People, and, and there are filmmakers and cameras being pulled in and out of places. And I go inside, and I'm crying, and this middle-aged man comes over to me, and he said, "What's the matter?" And I said, "My husband left me." I didn't even know what to say. He said, "I'm gonna take care of you." He said, "I am doing a movie on Robert Frost this afternoon, a documentary, and you're gonna come out with me and talk to Mr. Frost, and it's gonna make you feel better." And I spent the entire afternoon with Robert Frost talking poetry, and this actually happened. Bella Cornitzer, who is a well-known documentarian, who'd done movies on Truman and Eisenhower, and he was doing this documentary on Frost, he took, he'd never seen me before in my, his

• 7:05Speaker 02

  life.

• 7:06Alec Baldwin?

  He was kind.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  No, he was wonderful, and, and it really did, it really sort of was a very important experience in my life. Because at that point, I was so depressed, and so I didn't, didn't know what, what I was doing, I didn't know where I was going. And here was this man who literally saved my life that day, and showed me that there was beauty and wonder and fabulousness in life, which, of course, I knew, but I'd forgotten. You know, it was, it was really an incredible experience.

• 7:30Alec Baldwin?

  And at that point in your life, you weren't writing then, were you?

• 7:33Speaker 02

  I was keeping a journal, I kept, kept a journal since I was a teenager.

• 7:37Alec Baldwin?

  But you were modeling.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  I was modeling.

• 7:38Alec Baldwin?

  And acting.

• 7:39Speaker 02

  And I started to act, yes, I did some acting.

• 7:42Alec Baldwin?

  And you did that, and, and your career as a writer doesn't really take off, so to speak, until when?

• 7:47Speaker 02

  Well, I was, I was an actress on Broadway and off, and movies for, for 10 years, for 10 years. But I always wanted to write, I had these dual ambitions of wanting to be both an actress and a writer, like Colette.

• 7:58Alec Baldwin?

  But you walked away from acting, why?

• 8:01Speaker 02

  Because I really enjoyed writing more. And also, I hated the rejections, Alec, and I, I was not moving as fast as I wanted to, I didn't get the parts I wanted. I, but I really, I really enjoyed writing more.

• 8:16Alec Baldwin?

  And you're more self-reliant when you're writing.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:18Alec Baldwin?

  Being in rooms where you're counting on everybody else to do their job.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  I didn't have to, I didn't have to wait for people to, to agree, you know, tell me what, that I was.

• 8:24Alec Baldwin?

  Or get it right.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  Get the part.

• 8:26Alec Baldwin?

  What are the first things you start to write and submit? Were they magazine pieces or books or what have you?

• 8:31Speaker 02

  They were, they were, they were magazine pieces, actually. What happened was, I, I took a writing course at Columbia, and I started writing little pieces, sort of memory pieces. I actually started writing a memoir about my father and, and my brother when I was backstage in Mary Mary. Remember, I was doing that, too. I was, you know, in a Broadway show, I was understudying, a double understudy, Barbara Villegueres and Betsy von Furstenberg, and I went on for both parts. Well, you can imagine, it was, it was rough, because, of course, I wanted to play both parts. But, but when I wasn't going on for these two actresses, I was in my dressing room, starting to write. And I did start to write this story of my family, but I wrote it as a novel, and of course, it was terrible.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  But then I was writing little pieces, I started talking to my actor friends, I thought, God, they're sort of interesting. And I began interviewing Sandy Dennis, and Liz Ashley, and Marion Seldes, all the actors I knew on Broadway at the time. And they created a sensation, because they were very honest, frank interviews, because nobody thought I'd get my stuff published. My friends babbled to me without realizing that I was taking everything down. And actually, Sandy and Liz both tried to sue me.

• 9:42Alec Baldwin?

  No.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  They, they stopped being my friends, it was horrible, I got sick to my stomach.

• 9:47Alec Baldwin?

  You're like Truman Capote here, it's like, it's like Answered Prayers.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  No, but I really felt that I'd betrayed them.

• 9:52Alec Baldwin?

  And if I remember them correctly, they're two rather delicate women.

• 9:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:57Alec Baldwin?

  What's the first book you attempt?

• 10:00Speaker 02

  Oh, I didn't start writing a book for 10 years. I had a long apprenticeship at various magazines, including a place called Magazine Management, a schlock house. Where Mario Puzo was writing The Godfather.

• 10:11Alec Baldwin?

  No.

• 10:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:12Alec Baldwin?

  He was writing The Godfather while he was on staff at a magazine?

• 10:15Speaker 02

  Yes, he was, he, he.

• 10:16Alec Baldwin?

  What kind of pieces did he write?

• 10:18Speaker 02

  He wrote sex-action pieces, and.

• 10:20Alec Baldwin?

  Sex-action?

• 10:22Speaker 02

  Well, that's what they were called, sex-action.

• 10:25Alec Baldwin?

  I want you and I to, you and I are going to start an online site.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  We are?

• 10:31Alec Baldwin?

  We're gonna call it Sex Action. We're gonna, I never dreamed it would be you. Patty Bosworth, you and I are gonna do Sex Action, and I can't even tell you how much money we're gonna make.

• 10:41Speaker 02

  I would like.

• 10:41Alec Baldwin?

  I don't even know what it is, it doesn't even matter.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  Sex slash action.

• 10:45Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, I figured.

• 10:46Speaker 02

  War.

• 10:47Alec Baldwin?

  We might cut the slash, but go ahead.

• 10:48Speaker 02

  War, and then when they come home, they have a lot of sex.

• 10:50Alec Baldwin?

  They do. That's all they have on their mind.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  Huh? Yes.

• 10:53Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  But Mario wrote incredible stories.

• 10:57Alec Baldwin?

  He did.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  He ground them out, and on the side, he was writing this book called The Godfather. And people kept saying, "When are you gonna finish?" And it took him nine years. And if you can believe it, one of the staff people said to him, "Mario, The Godfather is not a good title."

• 11:13Alec Baldwin?

  Right, yeah, that's terrible.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Come on, sure, yeah. But, but I became one of his, like, proteges in a way.

• 11:19Alec Baldwin?

  Really? What was he like?

• 11:20Speaker 02

  He was just a wonderful man, and he really knew how to write, he knew how to write narrative, characters, he was terrific.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  Terrific. He was a wonderful, but the thing that bothered him was he was not considered a serious writer after he had so much success with The Godfather. He wanted to be a Philip Roth, a Hemingway. He wanted people to think of him in these terms, but he wanted to be considered, he wanted to be reviewed in New York Review of Books.

• 11:45Alec Baldwin?

  And he wasn't?

• 11:46Speaker 02

  No.

• 11:47Alec Baldwin?

  Was he married, had a family?

• 11:48Speaker 02

  Yes, oh, yes. Very much a family man.

• 11:50Alec Baldwin?

  While he was writing sex action, he was a family man?

• 11:53Speaker 02

  Yes, he was. He was also a gambler. That was the other reason that he stayed there so long, at this place called Magazine Management, which also produced Marvel Comics.

• 12:03Alec Baldwin?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Okay, Stan Lee of Marvel Comics.

• 12:06Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  And guess who came to visit one day at the office? Fellini.

• 12:11Alec Baldwin?

  What?

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Fellini came to see Stan Lee because he'd created, you know, whoever Spider-Man, God knows who. And Fellini came to the office in the black cape and the hat, and Mario was out in the lobby, and he saw this guy speaking in Italian to the receptionist. She didn't know who he was. Fellini, I is Lini. So he said, my God, you are Fellini. And they spoke in Italian. He brought Fellini into the bullpen. We were all, you know, sitting there.

• 12:41Alec Baldwin?

  Yes.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  And he introduced us, and Fellini told us in Italian, Mario translating, I too began in schlock. I too.

• 12:49Alec Baldwin?

  I was in the magazine management of Rome.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  I too wrote sex action stories.

• 12:54Alec Baldwin?

  I wrote sex action.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  No, but he used to be a-

• 12:56Alec Baldwin?

  Sexo actione.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  But Fellini was a cartoonist, you know?

• 12:59Alec Baldwin?

  I didn't know that.

• 13:00Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. And so he was talking to us about how you too can be great, you know, artists, but you do begin sometimes in a different way. You draw cartoons, or you write sex action, and then you go beyond that. But he was like, very inspiring to us.

• 13:14Alec Baldwin?

  Now, were the influences of your family, your brother, your father, your childhood, were they revealing themselves in the work you did then, or did that all pile up later into the books?

• 13:24Speaker 02

  Oh, no, it didn't reveal itself at all. In fact, nobody knew anything about my, I never talked about myself.

• 13:29Alec Baldwin?

  You stuffed that down?

• 13:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did. I just totally swallowed it and hid it, and I didn't talk about anything that had happened to me ever. When I wrote these last two books, nobody had known anything about my father, or the suicide of my brother, or my father. I just-

• 13:45Alec Baldwin?

  Your brother died when you were how old?

• 13:46Speaker 02

  I was 20.

• 13:47Alec Baldwin?

  You were in college?

• 13:48Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:49Alec Baldwin?

  You were going where again?

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Sarah Lawrence, yeah.

• 13:51Alec Baldwin?

  Do you care to talk about that, or would you prefer not to?

• 13:54Speaker 02

  No, I can talk about it, like, whatever you want.

• 13:55Alec Baldwin?

  Well, what do you think was going on with your brother?

• 13:57Speaker 02

  Well, it's a long story. He had gone to Deerfield Academy, very happy to be there. He was a brilliant kid, the closest person to me in my life, really. I really looked up to him, and we were just very close. We were very closest twins, really, I'd say. But anyway, he was at Deerfield, and he really fell in love with another boy. And in those days, that kind of thing didn't happen.

• 14:21Alec Baldwin?

  That was inconvenient.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, to put it mildly. He was discovered with his arms around this boy in a gym, in the gym, in the Deerfield gym, by somebody, and they realized they'd been caught hugging each other, embracing perhaps, because I never really found out exactly what was going on. But the following day, my brother's friend was found hanging from a tree, and my brother was expelled from school, and he was blamed for it, really. And he never, ever recovered from it. He went into a deep depression. He was sent to many analysts. Nobody ever talked-

• 14:56Alec Baldwin?

  He stopped going to school?

• 14:57Speaker 02

  No, he continued to go to school. He went to different schools after that, but-

• 15:02Alec Baldwin?

  How soon after that boy died, did your brother die?

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Uh, three years. My brother-

• 15:06Alec Baldwin?

  How long?

• 15:07Speaker 02

  Shot himself in the head when he was 18. He was 15 when his friend hung himself. And by the way, Deerfield refused to ever talk about suicides, that it never had happened. I tried to research it. I went up there, and they said my brother had never gone to Deerfield. So I pulled out the yearbook, which had my brother's name in it. I said he did go to school. This boy, this other boy, did kill himself. They never, ever would admit that there had been a suicide at Deerfield.

• 15:35Alec Baldwin?

  Oh, my God. Oh, my God. So, there's a period of this writing, McCall's and Harper's Bazaar and so forth, and then your first book is?

• 15:47Speaker 02

  Montgomery Clift.

• 15:48Alec Baldwin?

  You homed in on him first. Why?

• 15:50Speaker 02

  Well, my husband, my second husband, Mell Origi, who was one of my great loves of my life, and is fortunately not here now. Anyway, Mel said, write about Montgomery Clift, because you knew him, you remember him. You saw him when you were a little girl, blah, blah, blah.

• 16:08Alec Baldwin?

  Start with what you know.

• 16:09Speaker 02

  And so I did. And I met him when I was 15, because my father was his lawyer.

• 16:14Alec Baldwin?

  Your father was his lawyer for what?

• 16:16Speaker 02

  When Monty, this was a long, long time ago, like, in 48, when Montgomery Clift was just starting and becoming the star, my father advised him on his politics, oddly enough. Monty was very involved politically, involved in that he had a conscience, and he knew what was going on, and the blacklist was about to start. And my father had come off working for Truman, and was known politically as a, you know, radical lawyer. Anyway, Monty came to him and talked to him, and that's when I first saw him and sort of got a crush on him. I didn't know anything about his problems at that time. It was only later.

• 16:53Alec Baldwin?

  You didn't know anything about his problems?

• 16:54Speaker 02

  No, I didn't. But all the other people that I gravitated to, like Jane Fonda, whose mother had committed suicide, and so we became like, suicide survivors together at the studio, and Arbuthnot, who did commit suicide, D. N. Arbuthnot, the photographer, and then Brando, who was also very-

• 17:12Alec Baldwin?

  Committed suicide in slow motion?

• 17:14Speaker 02

  In a way, yeah, yeah. By eating too much.

• 17:16Alec Baldwin?

  Is it safe to say that there's a link between your childhood, your dad had a very kind of tough period in his career with the House on American Activities Committee, defending people there, your brother, and the kinds of people you wrote about in your books, do you kind of gravitate toward complicated, troubled people?

• 17:39Speaker 02

  Absolutely, always. And I didn't know that, I mean, when I began. I just, you know, the first book I wrote was about Montgomery Clift.

• 17:46Alec Baldwin?

  Your book about Clift was entitled?

• 17:48Speaker 02

  Montgomery Clift, a biography.

• 17:50Alec Baldwin?

  And there was another book, Monty, that someone else wrote?

• 17:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:54Alec Baldwin?

  About him. Did they both come out around the same time?

• 17:57Speaker 02

  No, they didn't. Mine came out later.

• 17:59Alec Baldwin?

  Who wrote the other book?

• 18:00Speaker 02

  Bob LaGuardia.

• 18:01Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 18:02Speaker 02

  What happened was, I had been contracted to do a biography of Montgomery Clift, and I began, got this incredible research from about his family, and then my mother got very sick, and I had to stop writing it to take care of her. And the publisher sued me and got Bob LaGuardia to write a quickie book called Monty. He used even the picture, my cover picture. He also sued me for $10,000, because he said he'd promoted me in my book.

• 18:29Alec Baldwin?

  And Monty came out when?

• 18:31Speaker 02

  Monty came out about, almost a year and a half before my book came out. But then my book was considered the good book.

• 18:38Alec Baldwin?

  Your book came out, and I was living in Washington at the time, going to school, and I read the Washington Post review of your book.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  Right.

• 18:49Alec Baldwin?

  A big piece of the article was an interview with his brother, who lived in the DC suburbs, I guess in Maryland or Virginia, maybe Maryland?

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Yes, and Eleanor Clift was his wife.

• 18:57Alec Baldwin?

  There you go.

• 18:58Speaker 02

  And the thing that was so amazing was that Brooks gave me everything. He decided he would trust me, because he had all of his brother's stuff, including a phone book, and my name was in the phone book, and my father's name was. So he knew that I'd known him, and he liked that. He liked that idea.

• 19:13Alec Baldwin?

  I found him in the phone book, and I called him up, because I was just so intrigued by Clift and the kind of preternatural beauty, and he was so beautiful.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Oh, he was gorgeous.

• 19:23Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, he was incredible. But when you did his story, you had met him?

• 19:27Speaker 02

  I had met him when I was 15 years old.

• 19:30Alec Baldwin?

  And he died what year?

• 19:31Speaker 02

  In 1965, I believe, but I met him in 19, I hate to say it, I think I met him in 48 or 49. It was when he did The Search and Red River, and then he did Place in the Sun in 1950, I guess. I met him literally at the height of his fame, and he was absolutely ravishingly beautiful.

• 19:51Alec Baldwin?

  What was it that aided him?

• 19:53Speaker 02

  What was it that aided him?

• 19:55Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, aided Clift.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  Oh, I think the fact that he was homosexual, and he was very conflicted about his sexuality. He was supposed to pretend to be straight.

• 20:03Alec Baldwin?

  No, was that the conflict, that he had to pretend in public, or was he conflicted about being gay?

• 20:08Speaker 02

  Apparently, according to his analysts, he was conflicted about being gay. You know, he did have these relationships with women. Apparently, he did go to bed with one woman, Judy Balaban. Do you remember Judy?

• 20:19Alec Baldwin?

  No.

• 20:20Speaker 02

  You know Judy? Barney Balaban's daughter, who was the head of Paramount. Women were crazy about him. Women wanted to go to bed with him. He was androgynous. He was like Brando in a way. They were both, you know, so complicated sexually, so sensual, and so, oh, boy. I mean, he was so gorgeous, number one, but it was the androgyny.

• 20:38Alec Baldwin?

  Clift even more so, yeah.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  Yes. It was the androgyny.

• 20:40Alec Baldwin?

  And Dean.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  He did go both ways, as did Brando. They were both bisexual to begin with, but Clift then ultimately turned totally gay and had many male lovers.

• 20:50Alec Baldwin?

  You hear these stories, well, the one I heard was that Brando said to Edward Demetrius, didn't Demetrius direct that film, The Young Lions?

• 20:57Speaker 02

  Yes, he did.

• 20:58Alec Baldwin?

  And Brando said to Demetrius that he was going to get shot in the end, his big death scene, and roll down the side of this hill.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 21:03Alec Baldwin?

  He was going to land, and he wanted to land in a Christ-like tableau.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 21:08Alec Baldwin?

  And he wanted, the last minute, for a bush to fall, and a crown of thorns kind of be formed over the top of his head.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  Oh, that I didn't hear. That's never heard.

• 21:14Alec Baldwin?

  And apparently Clift said, apparently Clift turned to Demetrius and said, if he does that, I'm going home.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  I think that may be a true story. Could be.

• 21:22Alec Baldwin?

  But Clift, I can't help but speak about this in the most basic, even eroticized fandom, you know what I mean, which is, everybody knows that him and Elizabeth Taylor in Place in the Sun. I mean, there's just no more beautiful couple in the history of, not even Cary Grant and Ingrid Brundt.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Well, you know, they liked to stand in front of the mirror together, to look at their reflections. They knew they were gorgeous.

• 21:49Alec Baldwin?

  Coming up, Patricia Bosworth relives the day she sent a fax to Marlon Brando's dog and got a response. Patricia Bosworth has a thousand stories from her days amongst the greats of stage and screen, but if anyone can give her a run for her money, it's the late Robert Osborne, host of Turner Classic Movies, and once a working actor himself. In 1958, his luck and charm got him a screen test with Lucille Ball.

• 22:25Speaker 06

  So, when it was over, Lucy didn't really say anything. She just thanked me for coming by, and I thought, well, she wasn't that impressed, but at least I got to spend some time with Lucille Ball. Like, a week later, a message comes on my voice.

• 22:38Alec Baldwin?

  You're answering service?

• 22:41Speaker 06

  Service.

• 22:42Alec Baldwin?

  Hello, LaBraya 9, 2000.

• 22:44Speaker 06

  I called the number, and the secretary said, well, Lucille Ball wants you to come to dinner on Friday night. So I go to Lucy's house that Friday night. There's Janet Gaines- There's Joseph Cotton. Oh. There's Kate Thompson. Oh. And I'm thinking, did you ever believe that you'd ever be? And then I thought, no, wait a minute. I always knew I was going to be here.

• 23:06Alec Baldwin?

  Listen to my entire interview with Robert Osborne at here's the thing.org.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  911, what's your emergency?

• 23:22Speaker 02

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 23:26Alec Baldwin?

  911 Nashville returns.

• 23:29Speaker 04

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 23:30Speaker 03

  Three bodies on the ground.

• 23:32Alec Baldwin?

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 23:34Speaker 03

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 23:37Speaker 04

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 23:39Speaker 03

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 23:42Alec Baldwin?

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star Trust Pilot Reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 24:18Speaker 06

  Whether you're buying, renting, or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today to help find a home that fits where you are in life or that apartment that's a little closer to where you want to be. Zillow has the right information, tools, and support to help turn your future home into a reality because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started. Hola a todos. Soy Jamie Lynn Sigler. Cuando metí agnóstico, tenía veintitantos años y todo mi mundo cambió por completo. Pero con el tiempo decidí que no iba a permitir que eso frenara mi vida. Quise tomar las riendas y después te abraco mi médico sobre mis opciones.

• 25:02Speaker 06

  La elección para mí fue obvia. Boom, eso es KISSIMTA. Obtenga más información sobre KISSIMTA o Fotomimab en kissimta.com.

• 25:13Speaker 03

  Breathe in and reset with Lincoln Rejuvenate, an available multi-sensory feature in the 2027 Lincoln Navigator SUV. Experience the luxurious massage, visuals, and sense to help you relax in the driver's seat. It's your time for a reset. Visit lincoln.com to learn more. Lincoln Rejuvenate does not operate unless the vehicle is in park, when the vehicle is off, or if any doors open. Do not use the feature in a closed garage or in other enclosed areas. See owner's manual for important operating instructions. Lincoln and Navigator trademarks of Ford or its affiliates. All rights reserved.

• 25:46Alec Baldwin?

  This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Patricia Bosworth had a successful career as an actress in the 1950s, rubbing elbows with the likes of Audrey Hepburn and Marilyn Monroe. But it was the stories behind the scenes that interested her most. After releasing her first book in 1978, she's gone on to write six more, one of which on Diane Arbus was turned into a movie. New York Magazine called the book "A Spellbinding Portrait."

• 26:15Speaker 02

  My research on Arbus is all original. It was, it was amazing. It took me seven years almost to write the book. And I didn't know how incredible it was going to be. I really didn't.

• 26:26Alec Baldwin?

  Is that what happens? You're doing the research and going, ooh.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's like, it's like solving a mystery. It's like solving a mystery. You're always looking for clues.

• 26:34Alec Baldwin?

  Prosecuting a crime.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  Well, not really, but.

• 26:38Alec Baldwin?

  But maybe only in terms of a lot of research, very research heavy.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  I interviewed dozens and dozens of peoples from every part of her life. And of course, I created the worlds that she inhabited, the world of fashion, the world, the dark world. And I wanted to do that. Oddly enough, every single one of the people I've written about, I've known personally. And in a way, it makes it, it makes it for me more, I don't know, immediate. And I can, I, since I know them, I can see them and I, I know a little bit about them. And mainly, I'm so curious. I'm very nosey. That's the way most photographers are.

• 27:10Alec Baldwin?

  And you thought that her story would make something that was worth, worthy of your nosiness?

• 27:13Speaker 02

  I didn't, I didn't know. I had, I'd modeled for her when I was a kid, when I was a teenager, you know, and, and I needed money and I became a model and I modeled for her. And she hired me because I didn't really look like a model. I was, you know, she was in fashion and she was a fashion photographer with her husband. And she was intrigued by me because I'd gotten married when I was 17, eloped. She had too, and I hadn't realized that. So this kind of interested her, intrigued her. And I found her probably one of the strangest, kind of most eerie personalities I'd ever come across. Well, she spoke in a very tiny voice. She wore the same dress every single day.

• 27:53Alec Baldwin?

  Like a uniform.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Like a uniform. Was always barefoot. She wore the same dress because she said, I don't want to think about what I wear. And literally the thing was falling apart. It was ragged and dirty. But she was very, very smart. And she asked me all sorts of interesting questions.

• 28:08Alec Baldwin?

  Where did she live?

• 28:09Speaker 02

  She lived in the studio with her, with her husband and, and child.

• 28:12Alec Baldwin?

  In New York?

• 28:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. It was an old artist loft studio on East 72nd Street off Second Avenue.

• 28:18Alec Baldwin?

  Wow.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  And they had a tree in the, in, in part of the studio. But I, I never forgot her because she was so, she was, she actually took an interest in me. I was, I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I was very unhappy. I remember at one point, a photographer molested me, a male photographer before one of my sessions with, with, in a, it was a catalog house, I guess I was working for. And I remember telling her about this in tears and saying, now I'll never be able to work with this man again. She, well, of course you won't, you shouldn't. I mean, my God, what are you doing?

• 28:52Alec Baldwin?

  You're getting it all wrong.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  You're getting it all wrong.

• 28:53Alec Baldwin?

  He won't have me back.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Exactly. And she said, remember who you are. You know, you can't, you don't, shouldn't tolerate this kind of behavior. Nobody had ever talked to me like this. Of course, in those days, women were very passive, very passive.

• 29:05Alec Baldwin?

  Do you feel you were?

• 29:06Speaker 02

  Uh, by and large.

• 29:08Alec Baldwin?

  Why did Arbus kill herself?

• 29:10Speaker 02

  Well, there were many reasons for that. You know, she was deeply depressed. Her lover was not faithful to her. That was one thing that upset her. But she also was suffering from deep depression and didn't, could not take any kind of antidepressants.

• 29:26Alec Baldwin?

  Why?

• 29:26Speaker 02

  They made, they made her feel sick. That's what her mother told me. She was never on any, any drugs.

• 29:31Alec Baldwin?

  Where was she from, Arbus originally?

• 29:33Speaker 02

  She was right from New York City. Her, her family were a mercantile family. They owned Russex Department Store of Fur Ears. She was very rich, came from a very rich family, was raised by nannies and chauffeurs.

• 29:45Alec Baldwin?

  R U S S I C K apostrophe S?

• 29:48Speaker 02

  Yes. And the Russex building is still on Fifth Avenue.

• 29:50Alec Baldwin?

  I remember seeing that.

• 29:52Speaker 02

  Her mother was always depressed. The whole, the whole entire family was, was depressed. I mean, her, her brother was Howard Nemiroff, the poet. And he was the one who was my source, my major source. And he said, we were always depressed.

• 30:04Alec Baldwin?

  And had all the money in the world.

• 30:05Speaker 02

  But money was not.

• 30:07Alec Baldwin?

  Doesn't matter, yeah.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  It didn't, it didn't matter. I mean, she, she fought her depression by, by photographing, by going into this other world, this other reality, this dark reality that she always wanted to explore. Because she felt she was in a, in a reality she didn't like, this reality of the department store and the money and the, and the thinking of possessions all the time. She was, she wanted to, to create.

• 30:29Alec Baldwin?

  Who was her lover that was betraying her?

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Marvin Israel, who was Richard Avedon's right hand in, in his work. And he was, he was also a brilliant painter and photographer.

• 30:38Alec Baldwin?

  He was an assistant to Avedon?

• 30:40Speaker 02

  No, he designed his shows. And he was also art director of Harper's Bazaar. He was a graphics designer and painter, a very strange man who, who only painted dogs chewing at each other.

• 30:53Alec Baldwin?

  No.

• 30:57Alec Baldwin?

  Well, we're going to leave that out of sex action.

• 31:01Alec Baldwin?

  Your book about Clift comes out in 78 and your book on Arbus comes out in 84. And then you take a very long time until you write your next book. You don't do the book about Brando until 17 years later, 2001.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  That's right. In the meantime, I did the memoir.

• 31:18Alec Baldwin?

  Anything your little heart desires in 97.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:21Alec Baldwin?

  How does that gestate?

• 31:24Speaker 02

  Well, as I say, I gestated for like 40 years. In other words, I started writing it in my dressing room at the Helen A's Theater when I was in Mary Mary. I started writing the story of my father, of his, the beginnings of his political career, my brother's suicide. I actually started it as a novel. I fictionalized it, which was ridiculous. And then I stopped. I didn't actually write it as a real book, as I didn't get a contract for it for 30, some 30 odd years, but I was thinking about it all the time. This story of my father, story of my brother, my mother, me, took about 30, 40 years.

• 32:04Alec Baldwin?

  Did you leave a lot of things out?

• 32:06Speaker 02

  No, I didn't because by the time I wrote it, everybody was dead. You know, and I was felt free enough to, for example, my mother and, and her lovers, this lover that she had was our gardener, which is an incredible story in the book. I never could have told that when she was alive and I wouldn't have. But, but, uh, no, I, I really did, I think I told almost everything. Not everything, Alec.

• 32:29Alec Baldwin?

  Do you know, I, I almost would rather write a novel because I can do whatever I want to do and say whatever I want to say and just make up the people. And if they overlap with real people, who gives a shit? Have you ever wanted to do the same thing?

• 32:40Speaker 02

  Yes, I have. I haven't, I haven't though, but, but, and I still feel I may, may yet write another memoir. But yes, of course I have.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  I just haven't yet.

• 32:51Alec Baldwin?

  Now, we, obviously, when you did the first memoir.

• 32:56Alec Baldwin?

  Anything your little heart desires, an American family story. It stops when the cutoff is?

• 33:01Speaker 02

  It stops after, after my father committed suicide.

• 33:04Alec Baldwin?

  What year was that?

• 33:05Speaker 02

  1959. Actually, I had just done this movie called The Nun Story with Audrey Hepburn. It was my biggest credit. And yeah, I was, I was doing quite well. But after my father committed suicide, I seemed to lose all ambitious. Ambition and I kind of became numbed all over again because my brother had already committed suicide. So this for me was a very traumatic, huge change in my life. His suicide, I'd also wanted to prove myself to him, you know, be successful. He was gone. There were all these things that, that, that made me pull back and for a while I just didn't want to do anything. I did, I worked, but I didn't have ambition.

• 33:47Alec Baldwin?

  I want to talk quickly about Brando. My feelings about Brando have altered quite a bit over the last 10 years. When you put all the pieces together psychologically, intelligence, sexuality and sensitivity, most stars have two. Almost none have all three. And Brando, of course, had all three, but very quickly he becomes, you know, this extended middle finger, this extended fuck you to the business. It's exhausting. What do you think that was about? When did that start for him? Was it fuck you even with Streetcar with Kazan and 47?

• 34:24Speaker 02

  No, no, it was his mother, the death of his mother, I think.

• 34:27Alec Baldwin?

  Really?

• 34:28Speaker 02

  In other words, we'll go back, I'll backtrack. Okay, his mother was an alcoholic. And Brando spent his childhood and adolescence taking care of her, getting her out of bars, carrying her home, even beating his father up when his father was beating her up. And of course, you know, she was an actress, ran that little playhouse in, where was it? Nebraska. For example, when he did Julius Caesar, he went home and he recited Shakespeare in the cornfields with her listening, that kind of thing. But what happened was she decided to go into AA. And this meant that Brando no longer could take care of her. She was taking care of herself. He almost had a nervous breakdown. And he even, Stella Adler even talked to him about it.

• 35:08Alec Baldwin?

  Did he tell you about it?

• 35:10Speaker 02

  Harold Kerman talked to me about this, this whole aspect of-

• 35:14Alec Baldwin?

  Did you speak to Brando much for the book?

• 35:15Speaker 02

  No, I didn't speak to him at all. I only, I only met him once at the Actors Studio. I called him on the phone. He wanted to talk to me originally because he wanted to talk about Kazan. And he actually wrote me a letter that he would talk to me, but then he decided not to. And I really became so frustrated, I kept calling him and calling. And finally somebody said, why don't you call his dog? Alec, I did, listen to this, I faxed, dear Fido, I want to speak to your master. Within seconds, the fax came back saying, my master does not want to talk to you, and signed with two paw prints. This was Brando answering me.

• 35:55Alec Baldwin?

  Just fucking with people incessantly. I was going to do, because I had done Streetcar-

• 36:01Speaker 02

  Oh, I know you were-

• 36:02Alec Baldwin?

  -for TV, which was a huge mistake, one of the biggest mistakes of my career and the biggest waste of time of my career. And we all just did it for a paycheck. And then I get an offer from, CBS was doing that stuff back then. They said, would you do Cat in a Hot Tin Roof with my ex-wife, with Kim would play Maggie? And we were all a little long in the tooth for these parts, by the way, but then they said, would we do, and Brando would be Big Daddy. And I've got to call Brando and, you know, you call the number and leave the message and the woman calls you back. And they're very prompt and very formal. And she said, what time, what number, he will call you. And sure enough, I'm sitting in my house and my phone rings and of course I trip over myself, I almost break my neck, tripping over a stool in the kitchen to get to the phone.

• 36:46Alec Baldwin?

  Maybe he's going to let it ring three times and hang up, you know, maybe he's just sick of this. And I pick up the phone and she says, here he is. And he gets on the phone. And he said, why don't you come by Thursday? And I was like, oh my God. And I go to his house and I had lunch with him for four hours.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Come on!

• 37:03Alec Baldwin?

  Oh my God, are you kidding me? And I had lunch with him for four hours. And you could tell he was sad. He was sad. What was the thing that you learned about him that was among the thousands of things, I'm sure? Was Brando's bisexuality, that's, that's not that widely known, though?

• 37:19Speaker 02

  Oh, yes.

• 37:20Alec Baldwin?

  It is.

• 37:21Speaker 02

  In, with, among his friends, yes. He was totally free about it. He didn't give a damn. He didn't care at all.

• 37:27Alec Baldwin?

  Any port in a storm for Brando.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  Absolutely, absolutely. He was wild.

• 37:31Alec Baldwin?

  And was Wally Cox's dear friend or was he his boyfriend?

• 37:35Speaker 02

  That I don't know. I do know that Wally Cox absolutely adored him and Brando revered Wally Cox. And when Wally Cox died, Brando went to the funeral, but he wouldn't go to the funeral. He climbed up a tree and looked down at the ceremony and then fought to get the ashes.

• 37:52Alec Baldwin?

  Oh, boy. I thought that they roomed together in Carnegie apartments.

• 37:56Speaker 02

  They did, they did in the 50s. And Shelley Winters tells this funny story about being Brando's date one night and Wally Cox was there and they had, they had something like roasted grapefruit for dinner.

• 38:07Alec Baldwin?

  Oh, my God.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 38:09Alec Baldwin?

  Right, yeah, that's it. That was Brando's idea of cooking.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  It's just craziness, craziness.

• 38:14Alec Baldwin?

  On 57th Street.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  You know, he used to climb out windows, he used to go into people's apartments. He would like be like a burglar and climb into windows and poke his head and say hello and then leave. But he was crazy. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere!

• 38:32Speaker 04

  We think they're murder hornets.

• 38:34Alec Baldwin?

  911 Nashville returns.

• 38:36Speaker 04

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 38:40Alec Baldwin?

  With emergencies of biblical proportions. Oh, sin swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 38:54Speaker 02

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Whether you're buying, renting, or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today. To help find a home that fits where you are in life, or that apartment that's a little

• 39:36Speaker 02

  closer to where you want to be, Zillow has the right information, tools, and support to help turn your future home into a reality. Because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started.

• 39:51Speaker 06

  Hola a todos, soy Jamie Lynn Sigler. Cuando me diagnosticaron tenía veintitantos años y todo mi mundo cambió por completo. Pero con el tiempo decidí que no iba a permitir que eso frenara mi vida. Quise tomar las riendas. Y después de hablar con mi médico sobre mis opciones, la elección para mí fue obvia. Boom, eso es KISSIMTA. Obtenga más información sobre KISSIMTA o FOTUMA MAP en kissimta.com.

• 40:21Speaker 03

  Breathe in and reset with Lincoln Rejuvenate, an available multisensory feature in the 2027 Lincoln Navigator SUV. Experience the luxurious massage, visuals, and scents to help you relax in the driver's seat. It's your time for a reset. Visit lincoln.com to learn more. Lincoln Rejuvenate does not operate unless the vehicle is in park, when the vehicle is off, or if any doors open. Do not use the feature in a closed garage or in other enclosed areas. See owner's manual for important operating instructions. Lincoln and Navigator, trademarks of Ford or Interfilias. All rights reserved.

• 40:52Alec Baldwin?

  Now, Jane Fonda is someone who has always just intrigued me to no end. Because she's had these multiple stages of her career, her, you know, tabloidy marriages and Tom Hayden, who I worship, I love Tom. But for me, what will never die is looking back at her as one of the great, not just beauties and movie stars, but film actresses. I mean, she's such a great actress.

• 41:15Speaker 02

  She is.

• 41:16Alec Baldwin?

  No, she is a great-

• 41:17Speaker 02

  Clute I'll never forget.

• 41:18Alec Baldwin?

  Clute, it's heartbreaking to me-

• 41:21Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 41:22Alec Baldwin?

  -that this woman is still not grinding out as many movies as possible, even, forget about age, because she's so mesmerizingly talented.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  She's incredible.

• 41:28Alec Baldwin?

  What was the experience like writing about her? Did she have a comparable loss that Brando had?

• 41:32Speaker 02

  She had two losses, her mother slitting her throat when Jane was 12 years old, and, and her father, who never showed his love for her. Henry Fonda never said, I love you, he was always cold to her.

• 41:45Alec Baldwin?

  Did she ever understand why? Did she venture against us?

• 41:48Speaker 02

  No, no, he was a very strange man. I think he actually was obsessed with her, myself. But what happened was Jane and I had met at the Actors Studio and she decided she wanted a woman to write her biography. She'd had nine biographies written by men and they'd all been threatened by her. She wanted a woman to write about her life.

• 42:07Alec Baldwin?

  Did she cooperate with you?

• 42:08Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 42:09Alec Baldwin?

  Oh, so it's an authorized biography?

• 42:10Speaker 02

  She didn't want to call it authorized because she didn't read it. She refused to read it. She said, oh, I'm only looking at the pictures. But she heard from other people it was okay. It was very difficult for me to do that. I mean, it was difficult because I knew her. She trusted me totally. And there were a lot of things in her life that she'd done that were not that great, you know? So how do I handle that? I mean, she stole her routines for the workout from her trainer. And should I tell this? So I called Gilda, who was her trainer, and Gilda said, yeah, she did steal them.

• 42:47Alec Baldwin?

  And did you ask fond about that?

• 42:49Speaker 02

  Yes, I did.

• 42:50Alec Baldwin?

  What did she say?

• 42:51Speaker 02

  She said, well, you know, she hedged and hemmed and hawed. I didn't want it to be a puff piece because she had given me so much. It was difficult. And there were certain things I did leave out.

• 43:01Alec Baldwin?

  What about Turner?

• 43:02Speaker 02

  She decided she wanted to be taken care of, even though Ted Turner himself said, I couldn't take care of her. She wouldn't even let me pay for her plane tickets, he said. But I think also, they're very much alike in a way. They're both totally self-involved, very smart. They love the fame, they love the power that comes with that. So I think for a while it worked, except he was always unfaithful to her.

• 43:27Alec Baldwin?

  Oh.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  Always. And she couldn't take that. He was unfaithful like the second, third week they were married, she found out he was screwing somebody.

• 43:37Alec Baldwin?

  Your latest book, entitled The Men in My Life: A Memoir of Love and Art in 1950s Manhattan, is very sad. And funny, but really, really sad. But the thing is, when you write a book, what are you supposed to write?

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 43:52Alec Baldwin?

  You write about your feelings.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  You cannot be indifferent to your own history, you know? You can't. And I was very involved. And yes, I guess I did get sad at times.

• 44:01Alec Baldwin?

  Well, what I love about when I read Clift, is you read and you think, is anybody happy in this business? Is anybody ultimately happy?

• 44:10Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know. I think they are. Was Paul Newman happy? No, maybe he wasn't.

• 44:15Alec Baldwin?

  I think Newman was very happy toward the end. I think Newman, for Newman, the great, horrible thing I want to assume is when his son Scott killed himself.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  It changed him too, totally.

• 44:24Alec Baldwin?

  Oh, I think it completely changed him.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Changed him totally.

• 44:26Alec Baldwin?

  I think that that really affected him. Your last book, your memoir that's out now, there really is a kind of an energy of, what's the word I'm thinking of? Of forgiveness. Is that right to say that? You're not mean to these people in this book.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  Oh, no. How can I be mean?

• 44:43Alec Baldwin?

  Even the ones that hurt you. You really put the gloves on with the ex-husband of yours. You're not mean to him.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  No, I know I'm not. I was just, I don't know. I wanted to tell these stories. It's really, you know, the book really is about my brother. It's a tribute to my brother.

• 45:00Alec Baldwin?

  What's the next memoir for you?

• 45:02Speaker 02

  I don't know yet. I think I would like to write about, actually, I'd like to write about the next 10 years, meaning the 60s into 70s, where I get into feminism and I work in pornography, which I did for a while with Bob Guccione.

• 45:15Alec Baldwin?

  What did you do in pornography?

• 45:17Speaker 02

  I edited a female porn magazine called Viva.

• 45:20Alec Baldwin?

  I remember Viva. Yeah.

• 45:23Speaker 02

  I edited it for two years, until he fired me.

• 45:25Alec Baldwin?

  What was he like, Guccione?

• 45:26Speaker 02

  He was a complicated man. I mean, he wanted to be a painter, another one. He felt he was doing good.

• 45:33Alec Baldwin?

  He was an accidental pornographer, wasn't he?

• 45:35Speaker 02

  He was. He was. He was very smart. And he actually published some wonderful articles in Penthouse about Vietnam War.

• 45:41Alec Baldwin?

  Oh, Penthouse, great writing. Oh, God. I remember reading about Barry Seal.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 45:46Alec Baldwin?

  And the whole Mina Arkansas conspiracy.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  That's right. No, he did a lot of political stuff.

• 45:49Alec Baldwin?

  Great writing in that magazine.

• 45:51Speaker 02

  And Viva had great writing in it, too. It did.

• 45:54Alec Baldwin?

  Well, I think that when you're done with that memoir, or maybe while you're writing that memoir, I want you to remember to allow time for you and I, for sex action. It's a winner. I love it.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 46:06Alec Baldwin?

  Launch date to be determined. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing, is brought to you by iHeart Radio.

• 46:14Speaker 00

  Okay. Laundry stinks. Literally. I mean, you could just keep buying new underwear. Not that I've ever done that. Or maybe sort your clothes into piles based on how re-wearable or filthy they are. Or just use Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. It's made for real life stinks and stains. So even if you don't do laundry the quote "right way," Deep Clean will knock it out.

• 46:55Speaker 00

  I mean, it is from the number one liquid detergent brand that tackles more loads than any other. Come clean with Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. Number one claim based on total wash loads sold. This week on Game Recognized Game with Brianna Stewart and me, Miles Turner, we talk with two-time WNBA All-Star and current ESPN analyst, Janae Agumike, about tearing her Achilles tendon while playing in China and how a deep connection with her sister Nekka helped the recovery process. Nekka claims to have felt something while she was sleeping, and that's why she was up when I called. And I was like, oh, my gosh, Nekka, I'm hurt. And I think this is a problem. Listen to Game Recognized Game with Stewart and Miles on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 47:37Speaker 06

  Hello? Hey, it's me, your wallet. Oh, hey. I was just wondering if we could maybe take it easy this week? Absolutely. Really? Yep. I'm shopping at Food Lion. Wait, you mean low prices? And MVP savings. Oh, you do care. Obviously. Okay, I feel better. Good. Now, let's go get some snacks. At Food Lion, low prices and MVP savings make it easier to shop for what you need without spending more than you have to. When your wallet needs a little TLC, head to your local Food Lion or shop at foodlion.com. Lisa, tell them about our new show.

• 48:17Speaker 02

  We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Iwanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisi DiGiulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references,

• 48:30Speaker 06

  occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business.

• 48:39Speaker 06

  Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Wise is the smart way to manage the currencies you need around the globe. When you send money abroad using your bank, you could get hit with hidden fees and exchange rate markups. There's a better way. Try Wise. Wise uses the exchange rate you'd usually find on Google with no unwelcome surprises. Plus, most transfers happen in under 20 seconds, which means your money arrives in less time than you've been listening to me. It's simple and free to sign up when you download the Wise app. Be smart, get wise. T's and C's apply.

• 49:16Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.