Yahya Abdul Mateen II, Vol. II

Yahya Abdul Mateen II was riding high the last time he was on the podcast, on his way to an Emmy win for WATCHMEN, shooting the AQUAMAN and MATRIX sequels and more. But what came next was totally unexpected, disappointment and burn out, and thankfully a re-awakening on the stage. Here Yahya talks about it all including his triumphant return to TV with WONDER MAN and MAN ON FIRE. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 5/3 -- Charlie Cox in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠ 5/5 -- Stanley Tucci in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 5/13 -- Matt & Ross Duffer in LA -- ⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠ 5/17 -- Billy Eichner in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is what I said. I said, "This sounds like a great opportunity, but I only get one Marvel dollar to spend." That's what I said. I told him, I said, "I only get one dollar to spend, and I want to make sure that I spend it well." So that was really the question that I was asking him, and I wanted to have that conversation with him to say, "Me saying yes is a huge gamble because I really, really, really like what you all do." So if this isn't the time for me to say yes, let me know because I will sit to the side and wait until it makes sense.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins.

• 0:48Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys. It's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, it's Yaya Abdul-Mateen II with a look back at Wonder Man, a look forward with Man on Fire, and much, much more. Hey, guys. Thanks, as always, for checking out the podcast. If you haven't already, you know what to do. Hit that subscribe button on YouTube or Spotify, or however you're enjoying this podcast. 700-plus episodes, 12 years. There's something for everybody in the archives. So if you haven't dug into them, do yourself a favor. Pick out your favorite actor, filmmaker. They're probably in the Happy, Sad, Confused archives. And a reminder, if you like what I do, if you want to support what I do, Patreon is your best friend and really mine, too. It helps us make more stuff over here.

• 1:31Josh Horowitz?

  Patreon.com/happy/sadconfused. Get early access to every single episode. You get guest announcements. You get discount codes to all of our live events, and we have a ton. You get autographed merch, all sorts of bonus content. Patreon.com/happy/sadconfused. And we do have a bunch of live events, I should say, coming up, including May 3 in New York City with Charlie Cox, May 5 in New York City with Stanley Tucci, May 13 in Los Angeles with the Duffer Brothers, May 17 in New York City with Billy Eichner. And we have one more I think we haven't announced yet. I'm not going to say it just yet, but that's enough. That's a lot, and more to come. Um, okay, let's talk about the main event. It is Yaya Abdul-Mateen the second, his second

• 2:15Josh Horowitz?

  visit to the podcast. The last time we chatted was 2019 and he had it all happening then and he still does in a different way. Back then, it was a conversation about his role in Watchmen, one of my favorite series of all time, probably certainly in the last 10 years. Uh, and no spoilers, but Yahya has a very pivotal role in that series. We talked about that in the last conversation. He was on the eve of doing the second Aquaman movie, of doing The Matrix. He had it all happening. He ended up winning an Emmy for that role in Watchmen. And this is a really cool conversation today because it's fun to kind of come full circle and look back at where he was and where he is now. Um, some really eye opening insights into where he was coming

• 2:58Josh Horowitz?

  off of that Emmy win and questioning himself and questioning whether, what to chase and how to chase it and whether he needed a break. Really a candid conversation here about pulling out of a major role in Furiosa, the Mad Max sequel, prequel, however you want to call it. Um, but thankfully, Yahya is in a great place now. He's had an amazing run on Broadway and Top Dog, Underdog, and now in television, two major shows. So you all know and love probably, like me, Wonder Man, one of the best Marvel shows, I think, probably the best Marvel show, I would say, since Wandavision. Um, he killed it in that, as did Sir Ben Kingsley. He also

• 3:40Josh Horowitz?

  has a new Netflix series out, Man on Fire. Yes, it is another adaptation of that story, the iconic film starring Denzel Washington. Big shoes to fill, but Yahya is the man for the job. Smart, confident, leading man, great actor, really fun conversation. I'm so thrilled he came back, back to the podcast for this chat. Um, so yeah, without any further ado, here it is. This is me and Yahya Abdul-Mateen the second. Enjoy.

• 4:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yahya, welcome back to the podcast, man. It's been, it's been a long time. Thankfully, you've been very busy making it easy for me to have a chat with you today. There's a lot to catch up on.

• 4:20Speaker 00

  Yes, a lot to catch up on, man. It's good to be back with you.

• 4:23Josh Horowitz?

  I'm, I'm sorry that we're not connecting in person in New York, but honestly, for me, it's, it's good because it reminds me of my personal inadequacies as, as a, as a adult male. I don't feel like a real functional human man next to you, so.

• 4:37Speaker 00

  Oh, get out of here, man. I don't want to hear, I don't want to hear it. Get out of here.

• 4:40Josh Horowitz?

  So, how, how, how long have you been, how long have you been in New York? We talked in 2019. Were you living in this, I know you were shooting in the city then, but were you living here then?

• 4:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've been in New York since, um, I came to New York in 20, in the summer of 2015. Uh, yeah, summer, summer 2015.

• 4:59Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so why is, why is New York the place for you versus L? You don't have to sell me on it. I'm a lifelong New Yorker, but tell me why it's for you.

• 5:06Speaker 00

  This is where my stuff is and it's kind of been that way. You know what I mean? I came here for the get down back in 2015 and, um, I remember my teacher said, uh, don't buy furniture. That was her, her, her piece of advice for, for, for everyone. You know, don't buy furniture because if you're working.

• 5:27Josh Horowitz?

  Meaning you might be itinerant, you might be moving, you might be.

• 5:30Speaker 00

  Exactly, exactly that. You know, like a couple of years out of school, don't buy furniture and I didn't. Um, and, uh, New York and, and it sort of worked that way. It was good, was great advice because I was bouncing all around, um, all around the globe. Really, I was really fortunate, you know, to come out, hit the ground running and then eventually I got some furniture and, uh, and now I'm here because this is where my stuff is and, you know, relationships and things like that all, you know, as well. A lot of great things happened over the last 10 years. So, uh, for right now, I'm, I'm, uh, still in New York.

• 6:03Josh Horowitz?

  Good. Okay. You earned, not that you needed more points with me, but that earns you special points with me.

• 6:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, yes, all right.

• 6:09Josh Horowitz?

  So we're going to cover a lot today because you've got two, one recent show, one like brand new show, both of which I've been watching. I, I watched all Wonder Man. I've watched the first few of Man on Fire. So we're going to catch up on that and a lot of things. Um, so when you're out and about lately in, in Starbucks or whatever, are you getting more, hey, Wonder Man, hey, Black Manta? What are you, what are you getting lately for people that recognize you?

• 6:29Speaker 00

  People really, really like Wonder Man, man. And, and, um, you know, that was, that's the most recent thing. Um, it's just been a great conversation out there. There's so many people who um, you know, gravitate toward that project for all different types of reasons, you know, I have um, actors, musicians, um, directors, writers. Um, these people even outside of the business who just relate to just having dreams and relate to being counted out and, you know, um, being on that edge of figuring out whether or not they're gonna go forward or whether or not they're gonna make a left turn. Um, it's really nice. It's it's a really good energy out there right now.

• 7:14Josh Horowitz?

  It's it's uh, you know, I'm not just saying this. It's my best, it's my favorite Marvel series since the first one, since WandaVision. You guys killed it. It's like, and I think I think it shares some DNA in that, in that like they both, like if you look at it, you know, they're like, sure, they're superhero shows, but they're they're they're so much. I mean, WandaVision was all about grief and and and mental illness to a degree, and this show is is just, it's like, you know, it's a it's a relationship buddy bromance Hollywood satire disguised as a superhero show, and I think that's why it is, it is working. And I have to say, I'm so relieved because I don't know how like it in it you were, but like, for those of us that cover this, you know, it was kind of sitting there for a while. We were like, when is it coming out? Yeah.

• 7:56Josh Horowitz?

  Like, and you start to worry. You're like, what's, what's, did something happen with Wonder Man? And like, I mean, were you aware of that too? Were you like, I I thought we nailed it, but why are they not pushing it out? Like, how were you of kind of that?

• 8:09Speaker 00

  Uh, uh, really, that stuff was uh, above my pay grade, and it really wasn't my job to think about that. That's the, that's the honest truth about that. But the second thing in that was just a little bit of a lesson is just, um, and this is actually came from Patrick Wilson. Um, Patrick Wilson, when I was doing the first Aquaman, it was after I did Baywatch, and he was asking me uh, how I felt about the movie. And the movie had already come out, and it was like, my recollection was it was like moderately well received, and it was like sort of in the middle, sort of like right down the middle, you know what I mean? And.

• 8:49Speaker 00

  Uh, I remember telling him, saying something like, uh, it was alright, like, i- is, is. The answer that I gave him had more to do with the reception of the film. As opposed to my experience. And he, and he saw that, and you know, I did now I'm two years out of school, I'm two, may- maybe, I'm, I'm two years into the business. And he's like, hey. Don't make it a habit of, of like assessing your experience based on how something performs. Um, and I, um, I latched on to that. And I had to go back and reflect and, and I was like, oh yeah, I actually had a really good time making that. So that's how it was.

• 9:32Speaker 00

  Uh, and it was the same thing for Wonder Man in this case. Um, I didn't really think much about. You know, when are they gonna put it out, uh, or like why, what's taking so long? I had known that we had. Uh, some, some stops and starts due to the strike, you know, the first time around, it was the actor's strike. I think the second time around, it was the writer's. Strike, if I'm not mistaken. Uh, so we dealt with those things. So I, um, so I knew that it was gonna be a while, but, um. I also knew that, um, that the thing that I was a part of. Uh, I was excited to, you know, to give that away.

• 10:09Josh Horowitz?

  It's funny, I mean, I, I, first of all, I love Patrick. He's one of the good guys out there. Like, I, I adore that guy. And, um, that doesn't surprise me that it has that kind of lesson to, to impart, but.

• 10:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:18Josh Horowitz?

  It also strikes me because like I was listening back to our conversation way back when.

• 10:22Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:22Josh Horowitz?

  And then I was listening to some recent conversations you've had and I, I find it so fascinating and I love how honest you've been about this, kind of the journey you've been on.

• 10:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:29Josh Horowitz?

  Through your career since, because I talked to you in twenty nineteen.

• 10:31Speaker 00

  Uh-uh.

• 10:32Josh Horowitz?

  And it's all happening, like you, you got, you, you're about to do Matrix, you've got Watchmen, like, it's, it, you're about to do Walkman two. Like you are high as a, as a kite, you're so thrilled. You win the Emmy. You win the Emmy for Watchmen, as you should.

• 10:47Speaker 00

  I won the Emmy before the conversation?

• 10:48Josh Horowitz?

  No, you hadn't won the Emmy yet, but like you were about, you were on the way, right? So you're, so you're there. And then I hear these conversations with you, eh, eh, like that you've recently had. And I find this so refreshing because my, I don't think most actors would say what you've said.

• 11:02Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 11:03Josh Horowitz?

  You win the Emmy, and what does it do for you, Yahya?

• 11:06Speaker 00

  Oh, I mean, what have I said in my, in my, in my, in my interviews? I probably, uh.

• 11:10Josh Horowitz?

  You're, you're, you, you, you're saying it, it didn't, didn't fulfill you. It didn't do anything.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, that, yeah, that, that's, that's, that's consistent, um.

• 11:19Speaker 00

  And it's because, look at what the world was at that time, man. I mean, it was, it was, it was tough times in the world, even aside from the pandemic, you know. There were some things going on in the world around the time where Watchmen came out and, you know.

• 11:36Speaker 00

  It was, it was, it was, the world was changing and, and it was just challenging. It's understatement, but it was challenging times. And then at that time, at the height of the pandemic. You know, I win this award, I don't get to go to the, you know, to the, to the ceremony. So it's not like I was getting my pictures taken and meeting people and things like that. So I never really got the high of it. So the truth is that while I'm deeply, deeply appreciative of that.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  That award, that award, which is right here, by the way. Actually, it's just coincidental. It's just right here.

• 12:22Josh Horowitz?

  Just drop that there, like, oh, weird.

• 12:24Speaker 00

  But it's just right here on the, like, on the desk, like, right there.

• 12:28Josh Horowitz?

  You have a tether to you. You walk around, the tracks right behind you.

• 12:31Speaker 00

  It just happened to be right there. But that was such an important lesson, you know, for me, to have that. Beautiful experience, but that humbling experience very, very early on because it did not fill me on the inside. And I said, okay. Great to know. And I wasn't expecting it to, but the way that it happened, it was like, okay, great to know. That's really great to know. And so now I don't have to think about chasing any type of external validation, always, you know, to be able to. Be humble enough and gracious enough to receive with real thanks, which I do.

• 13:10Speaker 00

  And, and I'm extremely proud of the work and extremely proud of that accomplishment because that, you know, that, that's, that's no, that's no small feat. But I'm able to understand it all in, in context. Um, and then keep on going.

• 13:25Josh Horowitz?

  But I also, I also so respect the fact that like around, I don't know if I have quite the chronology right, but like you also do something that most actors would not do. You, you take a break. You say like, I'm burnt, I'm burnt out. Like I'm getting all these great opportunities. I'm cast in Furiosa, George Miller's next film. George Miller, the best, like ultimate. And you're, and you know yourself enough to say, I'm not gonna be able to deliver what I need to deliver. I need for the long, for the long run, I need to take a break.

• 13:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely. That was, um, I, I was, I was honest, man. You know, I, like I said, I, I graduated from, I graduated in twenty fifteen. And I had already been making my trips from New Haven to, uh, New York to rehearse for the get down. You know, my first big scene was, uh, ten days after I graduated. I'm shooting this big scene, this big disco scene in, in, uh, Les Inferno. So I had.

• 14:18Josh Horowitz?

  Basil, man, the whole thing.

• 14:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, man. So I started working.

• 14:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  And then from, from, uh, the get down, I do, um, uh, a movie called First Match. And then First Match, I go do, um, uh, I, I go do, uh, another movie with, uh, Logan Lerman, uh, uh, uh.

• 14:38Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, Sidney Hall?

• 14:39Speaker 00

  So I gotta go do, I go do, uh, Sidney Hall. Thank you. And then from there.

• 14:43Josh Horowitz?

  I saw that at Sundance. I remember that one.

• 14:44Speaker 00

  Baywatch. And then from Baywatch, I'm, I'm, I'm all the way, I'm doing Greatest Showman. And I'm, then I'm in Australia. And then from Australia, I go to Canada to go do Handmaid's Tale. And then from there, I go to Atlanta to go and do Watchmen. Then I go to LA for a bit. And then I go to Chicago. Then I'm, then I look up and I'm in New York for a spell doing, uh, doing Trial of Chicago Seven. And then boom, pandemic. And then I'm off to, uh, Berlin, to San Francisco and then Berlin, right? From Berlin, I come back, I touch down a little bit and I forget what I do after that. But then I'm back in London doing Aquaman Two. And now it's twenty twenty one by now and I'm tired, you know?

• 15:27Josh Horowitz?

  I'm tired listening to it.

• 15:28Speaker 00

  And I'm, I'm tired. That was the journey. And I know I left, I left out Brazil. You know, even in that, I left out, I would go to Brazil to do Black Mirror. Now, all of these are, uh, um. Uh, uh, not cha- I won't call them champagne problems, but these are, these are gifts. These are, these are blessings, the, you know, the entire way. Um, but it, it did come with something else, which was me just being very, very tired and the world was changing. The world was responding to me differently. You know, just as a, as this, as a, all of a sudden, I'm sort of some type of commodity and people are looking at me differently. I'm just adjusting to this new reality at the same time as the world is changing.

• 16:11Speaker 00

  And then whatever else it was I had going on in my own personal life, um, and still having to persevere and perform. And yeah, I'm, I'm in, I'm in, uh, I'm in London and George Miller is, he's on top of it. He's already, we're already on the phone and on Zooms. One year before the, before the movie is gonna, is gonna shoot.

• 16:36Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, I, I know his process. I know. Yeah, it's deep.

• 16:38Speaker 00

  And that was, and that was, it wasn't overwhelming. It was so cool.

• 16:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:45Speaker 00

  It was actually so cool because he loved it and it was like the only thing that he cared about. And he made the time in his life to do that. And he had his actors, you know, involved in the process a year ahead. Just having creative conversations and imaginative conversations. And I knew deep down inside that I, it was too much and that I needed to rest. So, you know, I'm so glad that I handled that. Um, honestly, you know, that, that, that, that, that I was honest about the, you know, the way that I handled that.

• 17:24Speaker 00

  Um, because then I could separate myself from that with integrity and let, you know, another actor step in to do a fantastic job and bring everything that they had. And also it allowed me to rest and rejuvenate and recalibrate and then wait, keep, continue saying no until.

• 17:41Speaker 00

  The right thing showed up and that's when Top Dog, Underdog,

• 17:44Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right.

• 17:45Speaker 00

  You know, showed up.

• 17:46Josh Horowitz?

  Right, which, which I know was a very meaningful, very important experience for you to do that.

• 17:50Speaker 00

  Extremely meaningful for me to do that. Yeah, it was, it was a dream role. It was my dream role, my first time coming back to, uh, going back to theater. And my first time on Broadway, um, and, uh, and I needed that because, one, I just loved it. It felt like it was written for me and it was a challenge to remind me that like, hey, you're, you know, you're pretty good at this thing. Don't forget, you know, now go, go and go and work and go and earn it. And boy, did we ever go after that for a hundred and something plus shows.

• 18:21Josh Horowitz?

  That was, that was a hot ticket. I missed you, buddy. You need to get back on the stage. So that was you, that was you and Corey, right?

• 18:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, myself and Corey Hawkins. Yeah. And then, but lastly, just to bring that home.

• 18:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:31Speaker 00

  That warmed me up for Wonder Man. That got me, that got me conditioned and in shape. When I had the first conversation with Sir Ben Kingsley, I was on stage. It was, it was in between shows. You know, when I had my first meeting with Sir Ben Kingsley, we talked, you know, a little bit about the show and, you know, my appreciation for theater and his appreciation for theater and things like that. So I walked off the stage to Wonder Man. Had a little, uh, about a few weeks to like get myself together. And then I went to work on, uh, on, uh, I mean, uh, off the stage for,

• 19:06Speaker 00

  Top Dog, Underdog and had a couple of weeks to get myself, uh, you know, together, went to work to Wonder Man. And all of that is, is starting to happen when I, when I'm honest and when I say, you know, thank you, but no thank you. To Mad Max and look how it's all played out.

• 19:24Josh Horowitz?

  Lots of lessons there and I'm sure you earned some cred with Sir Ben saying, I'm, I'm walking off the stage of this prestigious show. Like I'm not just a Marvel superhero guy, man. I'm, I got the, I got the goods.

• 19:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, for sure.

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• 21:28Josh Horowitz?

  So talk to me a little bit. I know, I know Destin was also like a huge factor, if not the factor, in working on this one. He's an exceptional filmmaker. Talk to me a little bit, because I know we talked way back when you had, I know you'd at least like been in the Marvel sphere, like you, you went up for Mbaku, your buddy Winston ended up, ended up getting that one in Black Panther. Was that the one, only Marvel role you had ever kind of seriously discussed?

• 21:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, that was, yeah, that was the only one. Because after that, Black Manta was, was there very, very shortly after that.

• 22:00Josh Horowitz?

  Got it. So when this one comes around, like, is it an easy, like, what's the pitch from Destin? Like, I mean, it sounds like it wa- you didn't really, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it wasn't like, you didn't care that this wasn't meant to be like a full-on superhero role. You just wanted that experience of working with him, that someone like sort of bad, right?

• 22:18Speaker 00

  That's, that's not exactly true. Um, uh, I forget what the pitch was.

• 22:26Speaker 00

  Let me try to remember, uh, but the pitch was, it was something like, you know, this, this, you know, they're gonna do it kind of differently, you know, Destin is gonna shoot it like he shoots his Indies. It's gonna feel, you know, kind of different. We're not kind of go after the big superhero thing. And this guy cares about acting. He cares about the craft and, you know, he may be, you know, he's a little strange and, you know, uh, uh, but, you know, we think that he's relatable. We would love to have someone who cares about, who's passionate about acting and maybe even the theater and the craft and X, Y, Z. Those were the sort of the, the details. And I'm listening, I'm like, this sounds good, this sounds good, this sounds good. Uh, and I would love to work with Destin because Destin has a, has a great vibe. Um, but I need to speak to Kevin.

• 23:11Speaker 00

  And it was like, well, maybe, you know, maybe, you know, Kevin's busy and I'm like, I need to speak to Kevin.

• 23:19Josh Horowitz?

  Cause you want the big picture, you want, you want Fagi to-

• 23:21Speaker 00

  I wanted, I wanted to have a conversation with him to say like, not necessarily where is this gonna go? I didn't flat out ask that question, but, um, I wanted to know, like,

• 23:35Speaker 00

  I said, hey, man, this is what I said. I said, this sounds like a great opportunity, but I only get one Marvel dollar to spend. That's what I said. I, I told him, I said, I only get one dollar to spend and I want to make sure that I spend it well. So that was really the question that I was, I was asking him. And I wanted to have that conversation with him to say, me saying yes is a huge gamble because I really, really, really like what you all do.

• 24:07Speaker 00

  So if this isn't the time for me to say yes, let me know because I will sit to the side and wait until it makes sense.

• 24:16Josh Horowitz?

  Right, twenty twenty nine, next Iron Man, I'm ready for you.

• 24:19Speaker 00

  I'll wait, you know what I mean? I'll wait because I really, really dig what they do. So I didn't want to play myself small, you know. So I, I, I, I, I remember that.

• 24:32Speaker 00

  You know, my guys were like, you know, maybe he's, you know, maybe he's busy or, or not necessarily he's busy, but they were just saying like, you know, that's a, like, bro, you know, this is a big deal. And I'm like, I need to speak to Kevin.

• 24:45Josh Horowitz?

  So what did he say?

• 24:47Speaker 00

  He, he let me know that, uh, that it'll be a dollar well spent, you know.

• 24:51Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 24:52Speaker 00

  And we talked and I told him some of the things that I wanted to do. And I said, and he said, and you know, Kevin, I said, people don't know that I'm funny. And when I did that, I remember, I remember he said, he did like that, he said, yes. I don't know what he saw that let him know that I was funny, that, that had some, had some comedy out there. But I said, people don't know that I'm funny. He says, yes. And that's what I wanted to let people know it, show some colors. And then every, it was just fantastic. It was just, it was just really, really fantastic. But I did, it was very important for me to make it count.

• 25:23Josh Horowitz?

  And, and you made it count. I mean, you and Sir Ben have gotten amazing reviews on this. And it's like, look, it's gonna, it's gonna get a justifiable awards run. I hope you guys both receive it. Not that it's all, as we know from the Emmys, it's not what it's about, but it's, it's nice, it's nice to be like in that conversation. And now like it's been, it's been greenlit for season two, which isn't happening a lot in the Marvel TV universe, as you know. So like, are you and Destin, like, talking already? Do you know what the, the plan is roughly?

• 25:50Speaker 00

  We haven't had, we haven't had conversations yet. He's probably in Spider-Man world and I, and I'm in, you know, I'm in, uh, I'm working on a film that I'm about to start in, in a couple of weeks. And, uh, Man on Fire is coming out, you know, in a couple of weeks. So I'm, I'm sort of working on what I'm working on. But yeah, the band is, the band is getting back together, as they say, and I trust that they're gonna, you know, that they're gonna do what they have to do. I have my ideas and my, the things that I would love to, you know, to do and the places I would love to see Simon Williams go. Um, but I'm gonna see what they offer first and and then.

• 26:25Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, anything you wanna soft launch here today, anything you wanna secret out into the universe today with me?

• 26:31Speaker 00

  In terms of what?

• 26:32Josh Horowitz?

  What you wanna see for Simon going forward?

• 26:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, I wanna see, um.

• 26:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'll I'll say it, you know, what's what's so interesting about Simon is that we get to see Simon before he's a star. You know, we get to see him while he's uh dreaming for everything that he wants.

• 26:54Speaker 00

  What's interesting to me is to see what happens when he finally gets it. Because we haven't really, we haven't really, we haven't really seen that. You know, the first thing that he does is he says, okay, I'm gonna go and get my and, you know, break and use this to sort of break my friend out. But like, what happens when he really gets a little bit of, you know, fame and notoriety and attention and when he can, you know, make changes on the on the script and when he gets a little bit of power, that's that, that's actually what I'm saying, that's that's.

• 27:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:26Speaker 00

  Like, what is he gonna become? Have we created a monster? And I'm like, yeah, I think like, I think, I think so a little bit. I think, I think it's cool to watch somebody want something and they become a star and then you gotta let him rise, rise as high as he can go and and and and let him, let him get burnt by the sun a little bit, uh, but his ascent eh, is is uh, is is pretty exciting for me, you know, when I think about.

• 27:57Josh Horowitz?

  I don't wanna put you on the couch, but you might be talking about your own story here. What happens when Yahya actually gets the success, gets the accolades, gets the Emmy? How do you deal with that?

• 28:09Speaker 00

  I think I'm, I think I'm doing well, man. I'm, I'm, uh, I'm pretty chill. Um, I'm pretty chill. But that's, it's my job to play chill and not to add any theatrics to to my life.

• 28:24Speaker 00

  I get to, I get to do the crazy stuff through Simon. You know, I get to like, you know, run from the paparazzi and I get to like, wear my dark shades indoors and, you know, because I don't want people to see me and, you know, be worried about the fame and want more fame. I get to do all of that through Simon. And, uh, and you know, sometimes I think that's what people sort of want to see. You know, I go to the grocery store and people say, why are you here? I'm like, yo, I'm just, I'm just shopping. Like, I'm just, I'm just getting some eggs, just like you. But sometimes I feel like people would prefer if I just put my shades on and,

• 29:06Speaker 00

  you know, drive around in my fast car and, uh, you know, create a little bit of distance. I'll, I'll let Simon do that.

• 29:15Josh Horowitz?

  That sounds healthier if in the long run for you.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, in the long run, right?

• 29:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Let's, let's give some love to Man on Fire, man. You don't always have to just inherit the roles of icons like Orange Fishburne and Denzel Washington. Dude, you're making, you're setting the bar high for yourself.

• 29:32Speaker 00

  I could make my life a whole lot easier for, right?

• 29:35Josh Horowitz?

  This is what I'm saying.

• 29:36Speaker 00

  Man, you know, that's, that's, it's a couple of things. One, that's, that, that's what's out there right now. There's the, you know, that's, I still gotta work, you know, just like everybody else, you know? So there's a, there's a, that's a part of the business model and some of the things that are working right now. Um, but I also don't mind, you know, if it's good enough stepping into it and seeing, seeing what I could do. These are iconic, uh, characters and iconic roles played by, uh, iconic actors. And so, um, I look at this no different than I look at Hamlet. You know, he's a Shakespearean character and several people have, you know, uh, uh, walked the boards playing that character. And now I get to go and give my interpretation of the Creasy character.

• 30:21Speaker 00

  I would do myself a huge disservice to try to put myself in competition or in comparison to any of those other actors, so I don't make that a part of my process. That's a lose, it's, it's a losing game because they've already set the bar high. So I like to approach it with, with a, with a respect for the past, but also with a sort of optimism in terms of what it is that I could, you know, bring to the, bring to the canon of those, of those characters. And that's been serving, that's been serving me well.

• 30:53Josh Horowitz?

  What really impressed me and what I've seen so far of Mount on Fire, um, the scale of this is pretty epic. I mean, the action is probably the most physically taxing I would imagine that you've done.

• 31:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:04Josh Horowitz?

  And we're talking TV, but it, the scale is huge. Episode two, there is a sequence. I don't even know if I could describe it. It's kind of a car chase turn, plane chase turns, fight. That would be a set piece in any summer.

• 31:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:19Josh Horowitz?

  Blockbuster.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 31:21Josh Horowitz?

  What's that like for you? I mean, you're, you're in pretty good shape to say the least, but that seems like.

• 31:25Speaker 00

  It hurt. It, yeah, it hurt. I, I paid for it, you know, uh. Yeah, this one was physically, this one was physically taxing, stretching, icing. This is the, I got one of those, uh. Tim's machines where you put the stickers on and you give yourself like the electro stimulation and all of that stuff. Like, yeah, I definitely paid for this. It's more physical. Plus I'm getting, I'm getting older. I'm 39 now. I remember when, when we, when we did the first Aquaman, I think Jason was 39. And he told me, he said, um, he said, use your, uh, he said. You're doing everything on your own now. Cause he saw me just doing all my stuff. He said, he says.

• 32:03Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 32:04Speaker 00

  You're doing everything on your own now, but, uh, use your stunt man. He said, use your stunt man so that in 10 years, you know, your body's not wrecked. You know what I mean? And so from then I had no qualms about using my, you know, about using my stunt guys and I let them, you know, go to work. Cause they're the experts. Um, but man, this, this show, you talk about the scale of it. We, Steven and I, we talked about trying to like, trying to make a movie while we were shooting.

• 32:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 32:30Speaker 00

  So, you know, while we were shooting his episodes for sure, we said, look, man, let's, let's try to do this like a movie. Um, and we tried and we, you know, had so much support from, uh, from, uh, Netflix and, um. Then yeah, yeah, yeah. This, this, this, the, the scale of it is, the scale of it is huge, but that's necessary in order to let everyone understand the stakes. And then we can sort of zoom in as we move forward and get a little bit more intimate.

• 32:54Josh Horowitz?

  You've got, um, as always, just like our last conversation, you've got a lot going on. I could, I could, I could dig in for about an hour on the adventures of Cliff Booth. Uh, there's, there's no movie I'm more excited about than, than this. For those that don't know, and everybody listening or watching probably knows, this is Fincher, Tarantino script. Brad Pitt reprising the Cliff Booth role. Just poured into my eyeballs. I'm ready for this. Um.

• 33:19Josh Horowitz?

  Tell me, what was the process of getting it? Are you auditioning for Fincher? Was it hard to get? Like, what was, what was that about?

• 33:25Speaker 00

  Oh, man, you asked, you asked the right, you asked the right question. You didn't ask the question about, like, the story or about, uh...

• 33:33Josh Horowitz?

  I could. I'll go there if you want me to.

• 33:35Speaker 00

  No, no, you, you asked, like, probably the one question that I can talk about. But since it's, since I don't know if I can, then I, then I kinda can't, I kinda can't go there. But that's a, with that, but that's a, that's a good question.

• 33:51Josh Horowitz?

  You can't talk about the audition process?

• 33:53Speaker 00

  Well, look, man, I'm, I'm, I, I have to be safe these, I, I, I gotta play it safe these days. Because, uh, yeah, I gotta be, I gotta play it safe these days.

• 34:03Josh Horowitz?

  You've been in a Matrix movie, you've been in Aquaman, and I've never heard you clam up more than talking. What does Fincher have on you? He...

• 34:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, he's got the goods, man. He, he's got the goods.

• 34:16Josh Horowitz?

  But broadly speaking, that's gotta be a bucket list moment. I mean, for all those reasons, did it live up to the expectations, the, the lore of working for someone like Fincher?

• 34:29Speaker 00

  You know, the trailer was dope. The trailer was dope, and, and I am in the movie. That's what I, that's what I can say, because you saw me in the trailer, you know?

• 34:39Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, well, we'll have another chat. We'll have another chat at some point. Fair enough. I respect you.

• 34:45Josh Horowitz?

  We, we talked a little bit at the outset of, of Watchmen. Uh, I'm just curious, like, are you happy that it was obviously a one and done? It's the singular, wonderful experience. I love the way it ended with you seemingly passing off the powers to Regina. Did you like the ending? Do you like that it stands kind of on its own as this singular thing?

• 35:05Speaker 00

  I do, I really do.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  I wanted to come back. Because even though it's, I'm like, what happened to him? But I'm like, nah, you know, they can figure it out, and now, you know, I'll be back. I really, really wanted to come back. Because it, it, there was so much goodwill toward that show, and the writing was good. I read those episodes like I was, like I was watching it. That meant that was, it was so...

• 35:33Speaker 00

  Boys, that was the first time that I had worked on television. Well, no, I've been really fortunate in television, but I remember that one stood out in a way where I was just excited just to read them, not even looking for what I would do, but just to read as it unfolded, you know, and I was excited about the idea of it coming back, especially to see what Regina would do with, you know, those powers and things like that, the powers that were sort of implied. But I also really, really respect the heck out of Damon for how he apparently respectfully declined, because it took a lot, it takes a lot of integrity to go

• 36:13Speaker 00

  out to tell the story that you want to tell, to understand that there's a huge demand for more and then to say, hey, I've already, I understand that, but I've already told the story that I wanted to tell. So I really, really respect that and I think that that allows the performance of myself and my colleagues to really stand out there and really hold up over, you know, over time. So it sort of keeps it as a sort of iconic piece of art, you know.

• 36:45Josh Horowitz?

  You'll be happy to know, it's come up a lot on this podcast with folks I talk to.

• 36:49Speaker 00

  Is that right?

• 36:49Josh Horowitz?

  Sometimes I'll ask, yeah, sometimes I'll ask folks like their favorite like comic book project, etc. And you think they're gonna go Batman or something, but like Jennifer Lawrence is like, you know what was great? Watchmen. That's the best comic book thing I've ever seen. Like, that's, yeah.

• 37:02Speaker 00

  I should go back and watch that sometime. I haven't watched that in years and I think I've only watched it once, but I should go and check it out now that I've gotten some distance away from it.

• 37:12Josh Horowitz?

  There was some talk, speaking of Damon, love me some Damon Lindelof.

• 37:16Speaker 00

  There was some talk, come on.

• 37:18Josh Horowitz?

  There was some talk of the Damon Lindelof Star Wars project that you were gonna be involved.

• 37:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I never got a whiff.

• 37:25Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 37:25Speaker 00

  I never got a whiff of that ever, not even once, never had a conversation, never had a phone call. I just saw that one day. I was like, oh, that was, I probably saw that during the time when I was saying no to everything. So I was probably saying, man, that'd be a nice job, you know what I mean? But nah, never even got a whiff.

• 37:45Josh Horowitz?

  You didn't text him, be like, anything there, boss? Got something for me?

• 37:49Speaker 00

  I know better than that, man. I know better than that. Yeah, man.

• 38:00Speaker 05

  I'm Mandy. And I'm Melissa, and this is Moms and Mysteries. We're two Florida moms obsessed with true crime. From infamous cases like Ellen Greenberg to shocking Florida stories like the Dan Markel killing. With 55 million downloads, we bring you new deep dives every Tuesday and Thursday. Listen to Moms and Mysteries on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 38:21Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Whitney. And I'm Katie. And we're the hosts of True Crime Campfire. We set out to make a true crime podcast we'd want to listen to. We get right to the story. We don't do a lot of extra talkin', and when we do, it's usually to roast the short hairs off of some loser murderer or scammer. You'll laugh, but only at the people who deserve it. Like, which serial killer would you most like to shove into a locker? BTK and his awful poetry? Dude got caught because he didn't understand what a floppy disk was. We look for the stranger-than-fiction stories, like the case of Patty James, a killer catfish before the internet was even a thing. Or Howard Walmsley, a sentient wad of damp laundry who convinced his town he'd won the lottery, fleeced local businesses out of thousands, and then became a romance scammer.

• 39:06Speaker 06

  We've covered tons of cases you've never heard of: cults, scammers, killers. So come find your next great binge. Listen to True Crime Campfire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Friday.

• 39:24Josh Horowitz?

  So, coming full circle a bit, it's been about, you said that you shot Cat Down in 2015. I was gonna say it's been about 10 years of the career. I mean, 10, 11 years now.

• 39:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, 10 years.

• 39:34Josh Horowitz?

  Little self-assessment, like, you've learned some lessons through folks like Patrick Wilson and knowing yourself, but like, you've hit the ground running, man. Look at the body of the work the first 10 years. You gotta be proud. Are you goal-oriented at this point? If not, awards at this point? How are you challenging yourself the next decade? What are you looking to accomplish?

• 39:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a great question. I think the first decade, it took a decade to just...

• 40:04Speaker 00

  To just get the, to really just get the lay of the land.

• 40:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:07Speaker 00

  You know, uh, it is, there's a lot going out there, going on out there in the business and you know, a lot of people have sort of, uh.

• 40:17Speaker 00

  There's been ebbs and flows in the last ten years, you know, for, uh, several artists, myself included. And I'm really fortunate to still, you know, be working in a way where there's a demand for my work. Uh, but moving forward, what I'm excited about doing is beginning to take all of that experience. And to tell my own stories, you know, I have a production company now, I've had it for the last five years. We've been quietly, uh, quietly running and developing and it takes, takes a long time to develop things, but we've been putting together some. You know, some really, uh, classy projects, um, that I'm really excited to tell and excited to advocate for. Um, so I think then the next iteration is really about, um, telling my, telling my own stories.

• 41:03Speaker 00

  Uh, whether I'm writing or whether I'm developing them up from the ground as a, as a producer and really, you know, making sure that I'm a part of the vision from, from the beginning. And then as I do that, to create opportunities for other actors, other writers, other storytellers. You know, to, uh, to come, you know, into our, uh, sandbox, so to speak, and, uh, you know, play in our play, play in our playground. There's, there's so many talented artists out there, so many, uh, talented people who, um, who just, just need a shot. You know, who really just need to push and who really just need someone to advocate, you know, so things like, uh, the Emmy. Things like, you know, being, you know, surrounded in the awards conversations, you know, for Watchmen and, I mean, for, uh, for Wonder Man, excuse me.

• 41:45Speaker 00

  And what have you, all of those things, um, there's, there's a lot of value in that because I get to then, you know, use that to, you know, elevate the work that I'm doing. But also to then vouch for other artists and things like that to put them in a position also, so. Um, this, this next phase is about sort of saying what I want to say, taking up space in that way and, um, and growing with other, you know, likewise artists.

• 42:08Josh Horowitz?

  And there must be so many folks on that list of folks you want to collaborate with. I know there was a producing, there was something you were going to produce with Michael B at some point. I'd love to see you guys mix it up. You obviously auditioned for Kugler way back when. I'd love to see you and your Bay Area, you know, friend Ryan Kugler collaborate. Like those guys on the list, others on the list that you're itching to mix it up with?

• 42:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, for sure. I'd love to, I'd love to work with them. I'd love to get back with Nia DeCosta, you know, to find, find something to, you know, to work on with Nia. Winston Duke is extremely talented. I know he's like, he's, I think he's doing a little bit of television, but he's also got Mbaku, you know, still going on. But he's another one of those actors out there who, everybody knows that he's talented. People don't know how talented he is.

• 42:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:53Speaker 00

  Uh, and so I'm always like rooting for him and secretly.

• 42:56Josh Horowitz?

  And he's good at moving furniture too. He's good at moving folks out of their places. Can he help you with that way back when?

• 43:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, but he's all, no, but he, he's also, he's also got a home. He's also set, set roots, I think somewhere in, I'm not going to say where, but he's, he's a set roots.

• 43:13Josh Horowitz?

  He's in the vicinity? He's around?

• 43:14Speaker 00

  He's got a beautiful home. Uh, but yeah, I think that was, was that just a callback from like the earlier days at, earlier days at Yale? When I was helping him move into, into his apartment?

• 43:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 43:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good stuff. That's good stuff. That's good stuff. But yeah, man, there's tons of, tons of actors and, you know, writers out there who I want to, you know, work with. There's a cat, Tom Pisinca, who I worked, who, uh, who's done some Broadway stuff. Uh, he was nominated for Tony, I think a couple of years back. Uh, we, we, we, uh, went to school together. Um, he's like one of my favorite actors out there. So there's, there's so many people out there, uh, working actors, writers, artists, who are just looking for a push. Um, and who, who I know they're just on their way, you know, and I want to make sure that I'm a part of, you know, what they'll have going, you know, going on.

• 44:05Speaker 00

  And, um, I think it's really, it's a, it's a great way to, to, to collaborate in this, in this industry is to, you know, we're so nomadic that it is nice to work with people who, you know, who feel like friends and who feel like family, you know? And there's a couple of good models out there. Mike and Kugler are doing it. You got, um, Matt and Ben, you know, they do it with their company. Um, and, you know, I, you know, they're, I'd love to be able to do it, you know, for myself as well.

• 44:33Josh Horowitz?

  All right, we're gonna end with this, the Happy Say Confuse profoundly random questions. Ready for this, Yahya?

• 44:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, let's go. Uh, I'm not, I'm not ready, but you know, I'm ready.

• 44:42Josh Horowitz?

  You're ready. You got this. This is the first time I've seen you uneasy the whole time.

• 44:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know, I know, I'm like, shoulders are going up. I'm like, okay, what's going on?

• 44:50Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, dogs or cats?

• 44:52Speaker 00

  Dogs, man. I got a giant schnauzer in the next, next room. His name's Buddy. He's amazing. Dogs. Although, I come from a family that had cats too. Uh, but today, for the sake of my God, dogs.

• 45:06Josh Horowitz?

  I, I say this to everybody that's a dog lover, Mike, myself. You have, you were cordially invited to my other show, Yahya. I do a show now with, with actors and their dogs, where we just hang out with our dogs.

• 45:16Speaker 00

  Do you really?

• 45:18Josh Horowitz?

  I do. I swear to God. It's called Who's a Good Guest? Patrick Wilson's been on it.

• 45:22Speaker 00

  What kind of dog Patrick's got?

• 45:24Josh Horowitz?

  Patrick's got a bunch. He's got rescues, he's got mixes, he's got the whole thing. He brought one of them.

• 45:29Speaker 00

  All right, we gotta make it happen. We gotta make it happen. Look, my guy's a star. He's a star.

• 45:35Josh Horowitz?

  I've heard this before. I've heard this from all my guests.

• 45:41Josh Horowitz?

  But in your case, yeah, I'm sure it's true. I'm sure it's true.

• 45:45Speaker 00

  I could vouch for my guy. He's a star. He's a star. Like, he's a star.

• 45:49Josh Horowitz?

  Can't wait to meet him. I can't wait.

• 45:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:51Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, what do you collect, if anything?

• 45:54Speaker 00

  What do I collect? Uh...

• 46:03Speaker 00

  I, I, I don't know. I don't know if I collect any. I don't know if I, if I seriously collect, uh, anything. You know what I just got? I just, uh, it's, it's, I would have to get up to go, uh, away, but I won't do that. I'll stay in frame. I just purchased a compass. It's from 1918. Um, and it is my, um, one of my newest fascinations. Uh, it's from, uh, uh, World, World War I. Uh, and, um, did I get that? It is, um, my way of...

• 46:42Speaker 00

  Check this out. It's my way of uh connecting to my family and the people that I love. Because I naturally have a tendency to place them here, right? Like in my mind, when I think about them, like I'm thinking about my mom, thinking my sisters, you know, um, yeah, uh, my family, the people that I love, and I put them here. But my compass is my reminder that they're not here, they're out there somewhere. So as long as I know where I'm at in the world, then I can say, oh, you know, this person that I really love, they're somewhere out there. And I can send my love out into the world instead of sort of, you know, having that, having them

• 47:24Speaker 00

  sort of in my mind. So it's sort of my reminder that we're all here on this planet together. Uh, and, and, uh, and that makes me feel not so alone sometimes in this world where I'm incredibly nomadic and, you know. So, uh, I've got a compass and I think that compasses are gonna be, are gonna be, are gonna be a thing.

• 47:45Josh Horowitz?

  That's a beautiful answer. I love that.

• 47:46Speaker 00

  Now I need some maps. So now I've got a compass and now I've got to collect some maps.

• 47:50Josh Horowitz?

  Right. I'm gonna see you wandering around New York, not, not on the iPhone Google Maps with a compass. Like, where, where am I?

• 47:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'll take it real extreme, man. I'll take it real extreme. Yeah.

• 48:00Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have a favorite video game of all time?

• 48:05Speaker 00

  Uh, I think Blitz, NFL Blitz is, uh, I don't know if it's called NFL Blitz, we just call it Blitz. It's so nostalgic. I used to play that with my cousins and with my uncle. Um, I would say Blitz, NFL Blitz.

• 48:19Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Okay. Forgive me. This is the Dakota Johnson memorial question. She asked me this. I am, I have to ask everybody this. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 48:30Speaker 00

  I'd take the mouthful of bees.

• 48:35Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, we'll leave it there. Okay. Um, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 48:43Speaker 00

  Ah, it's a Bible verse. It's Romans 12 and 2, and it says, "Be ye not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, uh, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God."

• 49:03Josh Horowitz?

  Lovely.

• 49:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:04Josh Horowitz?

  Lovely. And, uh, what's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 49:10Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 49:12Speaker 00

  Uh, I can't give you that note. I can't, I can't tell you that, because if I tell you, you're gonna know who it is.

• 49:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, I can't tell you that, unfortunately, because if I tell you, you're gonna know who it is.

• 49:26Josh Horowitz?

  Is, is, is, does it end with, "And it's because I'm Michael fucking Bay, that's why?"

• 49:33Speaker 00

  No, Michael, Michael says, uh, Michael, Michael, he, he says, "I got a guy for that." That, that's what he says, like, "I got a guy for that." "No matter what the problem is, just do it, just do it, I got a guy for that."

• 49:44Josh Horowitz?

  He probably does.

• 49:45Speaker 00

  And we'll do it in post. That's the thing. Well, just do it, just go, go, go, we'll do it in post.

• 49:53Josh Horowitz?

  One of my proudest achievements, I was on set of one of his movies, and he yelled at me through a megaphone, and I was like, "I made it." Michael Bay, just said-

• 49:59Speaker 00

  Mike is a star, man. He was, he's a, he's a, he's a star. I've worked with Mike again in a heartbeat, any day of the week.

• 50:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, he knows what he's doing.

• 50:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:08Josh Horowitz?

  He's one of one.

• 50:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:09Josh Horowitz?

  Um, but it's been too long. Congratulations on everything, Wonder Man, Man on Fire, and so much more. Um, I appreciate you always. Hopefully I'll see you out and about in New York, and perhaps with our dogs next time, we'll see.

• 50:21Speaker 00

  I'll take you, I will take you up on that. I'll, I'll, I will find the time for that.

• 50:26Josh Horowitz?

  I appreciate, appreciate you, thank you.

• 50:28Speaker 00

  No doubt.

• 50:28Josh Horowitz?

  All right. Thanks, man.

• 50:29Speaker 00

  Peace.

• 50:36Speaker 03

  Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't supposed to do this by Josh.

• 50:51Speaker 04

  Hey, I'm Ashley, host of Crime Salad. And every week, my husband Ricky joins me as my partner in crime. We know the true crime space is crowded, so we skip the loud, bubbly small talk and get straight to the facts of the most gripping cases. If you want to see what we're all about, check out our recent two-parter deep dive, She Saved Him, Can You Save Her? Covering the baffling Rebecca Zahau case. If you want a true crime podcast that feels authentic and respects the details, come check us out. Search Crime Salad wherever you get your podcasts.