Rebecca Ferguson, Vol. II

Rebecca Ferguson always makes an impression -- whether it's on the big screen in MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE,, on the small screen in SILO, or in interviews like this! Rebecca joins Josh to talk about leaving MISSION, joining PEAK BLINDERS, and why she called out a misbehaving co-star. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠ #rulapod #sponsored NordVPN -- EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://nordvpn.com/hsc⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! Saily -- 🌎 Get an exclusive 15% discount on your first Saily data plans! Use code HSC at checkout. Download Saily app or go to to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://saily.com/hsc⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Josh Horowitz?

  Did Ethan and Elsa ever sleep together?

• 1:02Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:02Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, I'm just checking. You would know?

• 1:04Speaker 03

  Absolutely not. I saw them more as... I don't... It sounds incestuous to say siblings because there was clear moments of infatuation. But again, I didn't direct it. You know, I can offer up ideas or I can question why she would look longingly at Ethan in a gondola, but if your director wants something, then that's what your director gets. And they edited together and you're stuck with that outcome. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins.

• 1:41Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the pod, Rebecca Ferguson is back. It's been way too long. One of my favorite actors on the planet. So charming, so fun. We're talking Peaky Blinders, Mission Impossible, Silo, and so much more. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast and joining us on Spotify or YouTube, however you're doing it. I appreciate you guys. Remember to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already. Spread the good word of what we do around here. And as always, remember to check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happysadconfused. If you like what I do over here, there's even more over there in terms of bonus content, early access. We announce guests. We let you ask questions of guests from time to time. And we've got merch and...

• 2:27Josh Horowitz?

  Live announcements, live guest announcements, all sorts of fun stuff. Patreon.com/happysadconfused. So yes, busy time around here in the happy sad confused world as always. Teasing some stuff coming up before we get to Rebecca today. We got some Project Hail Mary stuff coming up. You've probably heard the buzz for this one. It is as great as has been talked about. I've seen this one twice already. Really special piece of work from Lord Miller starring Ryan Gosling. Some of those folks, maybe all of those folks might be on the podcast very, very soon. So stay tuned. Some really cool Project Hail Mary stuff only on Happy Sad Confused. But that's not what we're talking about today.

• 3:10Josh Horowitz?

  Today we are talking about the unicorn that is Rebecca Ferguson. We all fell in love with her, I think, fair to say, really on Mission Impossible. Most people really came to know her then as Ilsa Faust, that iconic character. She made it her own. She somehow kind of stole Rogue Nation out from under the brilliant Tom Cruise. All due respect to Tom, but like Ilsa just made the elevated that film. And since then she's been killing it, whether it's in Doctor Sleep, the Dune films. And now co-starring in Peaky Blinders, The Immortal Man. This is a great film, by the way. If you haven't watched Peaky Blinders, first of all, what have you been doing? Great show.

• 3:56Josh Horowitz?

  Fantastic work from Killian Murphy and that entire ensemble from Stephen Knight. And now this feature film, and they really have made a feature film. This is not like a glorified two-part episode of the show. I will say, I was really impressed, not that I was surprised because Peaky Blinders has always been very cinematic even in its television work. But this one looks and sounds great. It's got a great ensemble and it adds in Rebecca and Barry Keoghan to the mix. Tim Roth, I couldn't recommend it highly enough. I've, I really enjoyed this one. I got a chance to moderate a Q and A with the entire cast, including Killian. And, and then, yeah, on the heels of that, got a chance to sit down with Rebecca for

• 4:37Josh Horowitz?

  this, she plays kind of a long lost connection to Tommy in this. I don't want to reveal too much. She plays a gypsy who has kind of a very, I don't know, a familial connection. To Tommy, you'll see. Anyway, that film is going to be on Netflix this Friday, I believe. It's in theaters right now. Check it out. Peaky Blinders, The Immortal Man. But we cover so much more in this conversation, as we always do in Happy, Sad, Confused. Of course, we talk a lot about Mission Impossible, and spoiler alert, the death of Ilsa Faust, and Rebecca now has a little distance from it, so I would definitely want to talk to her about her perspective on that. A lot of, I know the fans had a lot of thoughts on how Ilsa went out, and certainly you can tell Rebecca has some thoughts, too.

• 5:22Josh Horowitz?

  We talk a little bit about Silo, two more seasons coming up of that. Her work on Dune, she clearly loves working with Denis Villeneuve. A little hint of how much we're gonna see of her in Dune Part III. And also some conversation about that infamous conversation she had a couple of years ago, where she kind of outed a bad behaving actor on a certain set. She's never named the actor, and she's not gonna name it today, but got some really interesting insight into why she went out of her way to discuss that bad behavior on set, and why it was important to her. So Rebecca is always a delight. I'm such a fan of her. Like I said, she's kind of a unicorn. There's something very specific and unique about her

• 6:05Josh Horowitz?

  in the best possible way, and I love chatting with her. And it had been a while since we had the deep dive. So I know you guys are gonna enjoy this. I certainly did. Without any further ado, here is me and Rebecca Ferguson. Ready for this?

• 6:19Speaker 03

  Are you ready?

• 6:20Josh Horowitz?

  Never. Not for you.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  Are you ready? Thank you for the interview.

• 6:24Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. Speed dating, junket style. No, it's good to see you.

• 6:27Speaker 03

  How you been?

• 6:29Josh Horowitz?

  That's basically what junkets are.

• 6:30Speaker 03

  Have you done it?

• 6:30Josh Horowitz?

  Speed dating? No, thankfully.

• 6:32Speaker 03

  I haven't either. No, but it looked like it. No.

• 6:34Josh Horowitz?

  That was our version of that. It's been a long time. Welcome back to the podcast.

• 6:38Speaker 03

  Thank you. Second time.

• 6:40Josh Horowitz?

  Second time. As I told you, your Killian's double D.

• 6:43Speaker 03

  I know, but he has more movies coming out.

• 6:45Josh Horowitz?

  He's pretty press shy, too. I take that as a badge of honor.

• 6:48Speaker 03

  I know. Does he get a hat next time?

• 6:50Josh Horowitz?

  He does. He gets a hat. It's very stylish.

• 6:53Speaker 03

  And he would wear it?

• 6:54Josh Horowitz?

  Would he?

• 6:54Speaker 03

  Would he? I don't know.

• 6:56Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know if it's as fashionable as the cap from Peaky Blinders. Wouldn't go with that outfit. Are you a podcast listener?

• 7:02Speaker 03

  No.

• 7:03Josh Horowitz?

  You don't listen to any podcasts?

• 7:05Speaker 03

  No.

• 7:05Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so Rebecca at the gym, she's going for a run. What are you listening to? I'm a weirdo that listens to podcasts.

• 7:10Speaker 03

  So I don't run. I don't go to the chip, no. I, I try and when I listen, I've listened to a couple, but you asked in general.

• 7:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:21Speaker 03

  My friends and makeup artists sort of in silo, they all listen to podcasts and always crying ones.

• 7:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 7:27Speaker 03

  Um, and I've listened to some and they are great. And I did use one to go for a walk. I started going on more walks because I wanted to listen to them.

• 7:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  But I think my life has been so busy that when I jump in the car at five in the morning.

• 7:42Josh Horowitz?

  Silence.

• 7:42Speaker 03

  Silence. And then there's just, you know, 500 people around you.

• 7:46Josh Horowitz?

  But then you're in your own thoughts and I don't know about you, my brain is a dangerous place to live inside.

• 7:51Speaker 03

  People is never silent around me. There's just constant conversations, cast, crew members. And filming non-stop.

• 7:57Josh Horowitz?

  Leave her alone. Just give her some space, people.

• 7:59Speaker 03

  And the idea of jumping in a car and then putting in podcast in my ear.

• 8:02Josh Horowitz?

  Fair enough.

• 8:02Speaker 03

  No.

• 8:02Josh Horowitz?

  How would you say you are as a promotional?

• 8:05Speaker 03

  And actually to get back to it, then do you know what I find really hard is when I want a podcast?

• 8:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:09Speaker 03

  I don't know which one to search for.

• 8:11Josh Horowitz?

  Start with Happy, Say Confused. You can start there. 700 episodes, 12 years, we got a lot for you.

• 8:15Speaker 03

  Here we go.

• 8:17Josh Horowitz?

  How would you say, how would you rank yourself as a promoter of film and TV? You've, because it strikes me, you've worked with the best, like the top, like, you know, Tom, Dwayne, Hugh. These are like creme de la creme. They know how to promote movies.

• 8:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, Emily Blunt.

• 8:31Josh Horowitz?

  Emily Blunt.

• 8:32Speaker 03

  Meryl Streep.

• 8:33Josh Horowitz?

  How would you say you are as a promoter?

• 8:35Speaker 03

  I think if I start analyzing myself, I'm going to turn out to become really crappy. I, um, I don't overanalyze. I don't overthink. I don't plan. I don't rehearse.

• 8:48Josh Horowitz?

  This is why you're the best.

• 8:49Speaker 03

  I don't know if that's good or not.

• 8:51Josh Horowitz?

  It's good.

• 8:52Speaker 03

  I think I sometimes walk out going, did I say all that?

• 8:54Josh Horowitz?

  There are two extremes. You want either like the really polished person.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:58Josh Horowitz?

  That's just like spot on. They give you exactly what you want.

• 9:00Speaker 03

  They get the little tidbits.

• 9:02Josh Horowitz?

  Talking, putting, he's.

• 9:03Speaker 03

  He's incredible. Incredible.

• 9:05Josh Horowitz?

  And then you want the wild card. I like the wild card.

• 9:09Speaker 03

  You got it. You have no idea what's gonna happen.

• 9:12Josh Horowitz?

  By the way, self-serving, I got the cruise cake. I'm on the cruise cake list finally.

• 9:17Speaker 03

  Oh, you got the cake?

• 9:18Josh Horowitz?

  I made it, Rebecca.

• 9:19Speaker 03

  I didn't know journalists or podcast makers got cake.

• 9:22Josh Horowitz?

  I've hosted two of his premieres. I felt like I was due.

• 9:26Speaker 03

  Well done.

• 9:27Josh Horowitz?

  It was honestly one of the top three professional moments of my life.

• 9:30Speaker 03

  I like the little glittery thing that comes with it and...

• 9:33Josh Horowitz?

  Do you know what I did? So I'd been talking about it publicly during interviews for years.

• 9:37Speaker 03

  Trying to get it.

• 9:37Josh Horowitz?

  Trying to manifest it. When I got it, I didn't believe it because I thought someone was fucking with me. I thought like Simon Pegg is like sending me...

• 9:44Speaker 03

  Love from Tom Cruise.

• 9:45Josh Horowitz?

  I called the bakery.

• 9:46Speaker 03

  You did?

• 9:47Josh Horowitz?

  I called the bakery to corroborate.

• 9:50Speaker 03

  That's hilarious. You know, there was a year when I didn't get the cake. And we were on set and I said, "Am I just off the list then? Has something happened?" And he was like, "I'm sorry?" And I said, "Am I off the list?" And he went, called his assistant and went, "Can you check? Is Rebecca on the list?" And then I got it again.

• 10:07Josh Horowitz?

  This is what I live in fear of. I had 10 seconds of joy and then I was like, "What if I don't get on it next year?"

• 10:11Speaker 03

  I know. And he also, he's an overfeeder.

• 10:14Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 10:14Speaker 03

  He feeds people.

• 10:15Josh Horowitz?

  Just generally?

• 10:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:16Josh Horowitz?

  Even that cake is like small but dense. It packs a wall.

• 10:19Speaker 03

  Oh, you get the small one?

• 10:20Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 10:21Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. Okay.

• 10:22Josh Horowitz?

  All right, cool.

• 10:22Speaker 03

  I was hoping for some hierarchy here.

• 10:24Josh Horowitz?

  Let's talk about Peaky Blinders.

• 10:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:26Josh Horowitz?

  This movie is excellent. It's fantastic. You're pretty self-critical, generally speaking. Fair to say?

• 10:33Speaker 03

  Um...

• 10:34Josh Horowitz?

  Of yourself or your films or what?

• 10:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think, no, not the films. I think some films, yes.

• 10:41Josh Horowitz?

  You've made perfection after perfection. They're all aces.

• 10:43Speaker 03

  No, no, they really aren't. But I think, I think it is when you get too comfortable maybe. And again, it comes back to that whole self-analygy. If you start sort of overthinking what you're doing and... And I can watch it. I cringe. I look at it and I think, "Oh God, that was a bad choice." But I like looking what we've done together. I like seeing the thing together. I love going to the premieres with the other actors and the filmmakers.

• 11:09Josh Horowitz?

  Has the silo experience helped that, being such a, I mean, you're an executive producer, you're so part of the creative process too. Can you divorce yourself a little bit more from the performance aspect and just sort of appreciate the whole?

• 11:20Speaker 03

  No, I don't think that I, I don't know what it is to have a producer cap on yet. I have things that I'm producing within my company, which hasn't yet taken off. And that is a lot, it's a lot of work. I've sometimes questioned if I want to do it because it takes a lot of effort.

• 11:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:39Speaker 03

  And to build and a lot of different opinions and where the script goes and where do we want it to go. But I think on Silo, the main thing for me, and I've talked about this a lot, is how we feel when we come to work.

• 11:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, creating that environment.

• 11:52Speaker 03

  And that is everything for me, to be able to feel free to create and feel safe and to have fun and. And I felt that actually with Peaky, I'm not producing it, I'm just dipping my toe in it.

• 12:04Josh Horowitz?

  You've seen, it's interesting looking at the choices you've made because some of them, you're, you know, you're front and center, you're a co-lead, you're a lead. And then there are these films, you know, there's Dune, there's this, where you're kind of like dipping in and out these really cool character pieces. And something, I guess, like analogous to Mission, like, you know, you are coming into something that already exists. You kind of know what it is going to be. There's a security in that, I would imagine.

• 12:26Speaker 03

  Which isn't always good.

• 12:28Josh Horowitz?

  It's not always good.

• 12:29Speaker 03

  No, not always. I mean, if there is an alchemy and there is something, a frequency that's already set.

• 12:34Josh Horowitz?

  And then there's less creativity, there's less like.

• 12:36Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, so the question is, what are you? What is the new setting for the new character in an already set environment?

• 12:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 12:41Speaker 03

  And that's challenging and fun. You've sort of, there's been all these obstacles that these main characters have had to climb and conquer.

• 12:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 12:48Speaker 03

  And now you are one, sort of, who are you within this setting of, of, of characters that all the audiences know about?

• 12:55Josh Horowitz?

  Right, because you want to blend in seamlessly yet also stand out and fuck with the whole environment.

• 13:00Speaker 03

  It's a dance, yes.

• 13:02Josh Horowitz?

  So, okay, so for this one, Killian is the gold standard. Every actor wants to work with Killian. And that's the reason ultimately to really do this, to get to mix it up with Killian.

• 13:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, for me it was. And then I found out Barry was in it and that blew my socks off.

• 13:18Josh Horowitz?

  Have you worked with Barry before? No.

• 13:19Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 13:19Josh Horowitz?

  He's such an exciting actor.

• 13:21Speaker 03

  He's, I think he's one of the top actors that we have.

• 13:23Josh Horowitz?

  Agreed.

• 13:24Speaker 03

  And being in a film with him, and actually Tim as well. And I'm not just saying it, it was. And Graham, you know, Stephen Graham. It's like such an incredible ensemble. I didn't get to be on the receiving end of everyone, obviously. But the dynamic with Barry, it was so different than the dynamic with Killian.

• 13:44Josh Horowitz?

  I was gonna say, so I'm thinking of those two in particular, because Barry, to me, is electric. He's, there's something unpredictable. There's something always that draws you in, but is a little bit dangerous. And Killian is just a charisma machine. Those eyes like bring you in, and there's just like this certitude, this solid nature. It feels like a guy that's really come into his own. He's always been great, for 20 years, he's been amazing. But it feels like now he's at this level.

• 14:10Speaker 03

  Not 21, I would say 20, yeah, I agree, yeah. That's the bar.

• 14:14Josh Horowitz?

  So for you?

• 14:15Speaker 03

  What did he do 21 years ago?

• 14:16Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know, nothing. He was nothing.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  28 days.

• 14:21Josh Horowitz?

  Please, that's like 25, actually, now that I'm thinking about it. I'm bad with math. So, wait, did you know Killian, go just like as a casual, as a friend?

• 14:28Speaker 03

  No, we had the same agent. So Adam Schweitzer is our agent. And it was sort of a running joke, because I kept saying to Adam, when am I, when am I gonna be in a film with him? Like, what is he doing next? You know, I'll be a teapot, you know, I felt like a stalker after a while.

• 14:41Josh Horowitz?

  You'd be a good teapot.

• 14:43Speaker 03

  Anything, I can be chip.

• 14:46Speaker 03

  And then one day he called and said, I have Killian's number, here it is, he wants to talk to you.

• 14:51Josh Horowitz?

  So does he, does he present you with a script, the role? Like, how fully formed is it when that happens?

• 14:56Speaker 03

  I remember I was in Grease. You know, it's funny how you remember. I remember exactly where I sat. I remember the phone call. I remember them saying, it was Zoom as well, with Stephen Knight, Tom and Killian, where they sort of presented it. I must have received the script beforehand.

• 15:13Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 15:14Speaker 03

  And I read it, and it was great. It was an incredibly well-written script. And then I had some thoughts and ideas and questions, and I asked to have a Zoom, and I was terrified.

• 15:25Speaker 03

  Because these guys know each other.

• 15:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 15:27Speaker 03

  And they're confident in the script, and they're comfortable, and I'm gonna break in and be like, guys, I have a couple of

• 15:33Josh Horowitz?

  Little, I think I can really plus up your show here.

• 15:36Speaker 03

  But they were so, you know, not a mean, but they were just so collaborative.

• 15:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 15:41Speaker 03

  And I thought, this is great. I wanna be in this, I wanna be in this environment.

• 15:47Josh Horowitz?

  You didn't wanna do the accent, that was your prerequisite.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  Hell no.

• 15:57Speaker 00

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• 16:28Speaker 04

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• 17:00Josh Horowitz?

  Do you, again, we're getting into kind of the self-critical thing. From my understanding, you feel like accents are not your specialty.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  I feel that as soon as you have to do an accent, obviously my accent is so weird because I'm born in Sweden.

• 17:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I don't know, I mean, I know where you're from, but like to hear you speak, I don't understand what this is.

• 17:19Speaker 03

  But it's sort of, it's old school English. So my mom was brought up in Norfolk and she went to a couple of private schools, got expelled from private schools, she was a rebel. And then when she was 20-something, she moved to Sweden and then she met my dad. So I have this sort of mixed, otherworldly, non-existing sort of Swedish intonation to a very sort of old-school RP accent.

• 17:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 17:44Speaker 03

  Which I guess is just mine. But what I feel with accents is as soon as you have to do an accent, it can get very claustrophobic.

• 17:52Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 17:52Speaker 03

  Because ad-libbing and making things up.

• 17:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 17:55Speaker 03

  If you don't have the history of an accent, like when we do American, which is still, can sound Irish if you're not American.

• 18:04Speaker 03

  There's a possessive, not possessive, there's a forwardness, it's a new country, they want to be seen and they want to be heard and they emphasize words and self-pronouns, me, I, you, whilst in England, you don't have to because they conquered the world.

• 18:17Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 18:17Speaker 03

  There's another arc to the rhythm. So when you ad-lib and just want to go offbeat and off-script. It has to be so in your DNA. And it's another layer to the acting.

• 18:30Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have a... Have you played American much in your career? I'm trying to think now.

• 18:34Speaker 03

  I'm doing silo.

• 18:35Josh Horowitz?

  Silo.

• 18:35Speaker 03

  Silo does. And that kind of works the way that we do it. And I'm quite free in it because we've lived 250 years, 300 years underground.

• 18:42Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  And there would have been so many different people and different sort of...

• 18:45Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 18:45Speaker 03

  So we get away with it.

• 18:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:47Speaker 03

  But...

• 18:48Josh Horowitz?

  But you do have one of these voices, these accents, whatever it is, this amalgamation you described. It's like I put it in the Kristoff Waltz category. It's like I can... It's so... It's a mesmerizing. And you have a gift, like, don't fuck with it. Like, use that. That's a real asset.

• 19:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it does... The intonation of the English, because it was my mom's way, they had to do RP. It sounds posh, so, you know, it's oddly... You're stuck in a category, you know? It's not sort of the working class sound, but I'm classless because I'm not English.

• 19:17Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:18Speaker 03

  You know? So it's tricky. I'm not really free to move, and yet I just move however I want.

• 19:24Josh Horowitz?

  It's interesting, this role in particular. So this is a woman, a gypsy who... And this is kind of like your witchy era, I feel like. You know, between Rose of the Hat going back a few years to Lady Jessica, this woman. You're dabbling in the occult, the dark arts. What's going on? Are you manifesting something? Is the universe looking for you to do something?

• 19:42Speaker 03

  No, and I'm kind of sick and tired of the roles. I don't... I don't... I don't love playing witches. I don't love films with witchcraft and animated characters. So I know it's weird that I've done them, but I think, on a whole, I was excited to find the truth within her character. What was her agenda?

• 20:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:04Speaker 03

  Her belief is something else, and I can, you know, live with that. And it's a heritage throughout the entire Peaky story. You want to do Peaky? There's Romany and there's gypsies.

• 20:12Josh Horowitz?

  Of course, it's part of it, yeah.

• 20:13Speaker 03

  And that's juxtaposition of the violence of the Peaky.

• 20:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:16Speaker 03

  And the supernatural and the spiritual and the sort of fortune telling. And it was truth, and that's what it was.

• 20:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:24Speaker 03

  So you can't not lean into it. But I kind of leaned out of it and let...

• 20:30Josh Horowitz?

  So you're exiting your occult era. You're ready to be a little more grounded.

• 20:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, but again, they're all very different.

• 20:37Josh Horowitz?

  Sure, of course.

• 20:37Speaker 03

  They're all very different, but I mean, I am, I'm not seeking them out.

• 20:41Josh Horowitz?

  Are you superstitious generally? Do you believe in, do you have mantras, things before you go on set?

• 20:47Speaker 03

  No, no, but I, when I have fears for certain things, I don't like other things happening if I'm going to do something. Like, for example, I don't love flying. But if someone says something about it, or someone starts knocking on a plane, I get very uncomfortable when their superstition starts coming into my world.

• 21:08Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 21:09Speaker 03

  Someone has to touch a plane before they go on, and I think, well, I'm clearly gonna die now. Like, you've clearly, I mean, we're going down.

• 21:16Josh Horowitz?

  We're doomed. You just did this to all of us.

• 21:19Speaker 03

  It's like, I'm not gonna go and raise it, but I think, really, mate, just, just, just be.

• 21:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:24Speaker 03

  Just stop that.

• 21:25Josh Horowitz?

  Hide your neuroses. Don't wear them on your sleeve. I do feel like you're a secret neurotic, because you present as confident as just like, I mean, I trust you. I believe in you, but the elevator, the elevator thing's real? That's a real thing?

• 21:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:39Josh Horowitz?

  Have you, have you sought like hypnosis, anything to?

• 21:42Speaker 03

  I have done hypnotherapy. I, I'm willing, I'm trying to, I did this thing with someone. I don't know where he was, LA maybe. And he could somehow tap into me through the phone. So it's a session started with him kind of saying, are you okay for me to enter you?

• 22:01Josh Horowitz?

  Never a good start.

• 22:02Speaker 03

  Never a good start. I remember like on the bed going.

• 22:05Josh Horowitz?

  Maybe, let's.

• 22:07Speaker 03

  Going, mate, I'm willing to do anything right now. And he said, I'm just gonna tap into you, and I'm going to release the locks.

• 22:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:15Speaker 03

  And I was like, dude, I am open to do anything here.

• 22:18Josh Horowitz?

  Whatever works.

• 22:19Speaker 03

  Didn't work, and I maybe wasn't open. I don't know. I know, I don't know how spiritual I am in that sense, but I think claustrophobia is a lot of control.

• 22:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  And release of control, and just accepting.

• 22:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:33Speaker 03

  The lack of control. And I, I just, I hate it. I, I want an exit. I want to be able to get out.

• 22:41Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you're not at least on the extreme, you're not on the Billy Bob Thornton level.

• 22:44Speaker 03

  Well, what does he do?

• 22:45Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, he, he's afraid famously of a lot of things, but antique furniture, for instance, very specific.

• 22:51Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 22:51Josh Horowitz?

  I know.

• 22:52Speaker 03

  Antique, not vintage, so he has a certain era. It needs to be a certain age. He doesn't sit in it?

• 22:59Josh Horowitz?

  He doesn't want it around. But it's Billy Bob. I mean, you would expect nothing less.

• 23:03Speaker 03

  I think wasn't Woody Allen famously wouldn't drive under bridges and viaducts or something?

• 23:08Josh Horowitz?

  Doesn't surprise me.

• 23:09Speaker 03

  So he had to go over. Imagine mapping that route out, going to set.

• 23:11Josh Horowitz?

  I wouldn't say much because you're, this elevator thing is a real impactful thing.

• 23:15Speaker 03

  I know, yeah, yeah, that is so true.

• 23:16Josh Horowitz?

  So Quentin Tarantino says, hey, Rebecca, I've got the final film, you're my star. By the way, it takes place in an elevator, it's a thriller.

• 23:24Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 23:25Josh Horowitz?

  What do you say?

• 23:25Speaker 03

  Great. Have you built the set and do you have an exit? Let's shoot. We had to do that with-

• 23:30Josh Horowitz?

  Show me the schematics.

• 23:30Speaker 03

  We had to do that with the ornithopter, which we called the horny-thropper.

• 23:34Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 23:36Speaker 03

  The sex name.

• 23:36Josh Horowitz?

  Who called it the horny?

• 23:37Speaker 03

  The horny-thropper.

• 23:37Josh Horowitz?

  Who called it the horny-thropper?

• 23:38Speaker 03

  I think we all had just sex names for anything.

• 23:40Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 23:41Speaker 03

  Because that's what happens when you're in the desert together for months. There's nothing else to do, mate.

• 23:46Josh Horowitz?

  It feels like a Brolin idea. It feels like Brolin started it.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  It might have been Brolin, actually. But it was a metal door that shut through a button.

• 23:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:56Speaker 03

  And I, I just don't trust mechanics.

• 23:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 24:00Speaker 03

  And I don't trust metal things going into metal things because if it doesn't work, it's stuck inside.

• 24:05Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 24:05Speaker 03

  And we were inside and said, don't worry, I've got the button. I went, where the fuck are you? And he went, I'm outside. And I was like, well, what if, what if the button breaks? And he's like, well, we've got mechanics, we can drill you out.

• 24:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 24:14Speaker 03

  And I was like-

• 24:14Josh Horowitz?

  I don't want to rely on being drilled out of something.

• 24:16Speaker 03

  So they built a whole set. So we had the ornithopter and the whole one side was black felt.

• 24:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 24:23Speaker 03

  So I could just walk out.

• 24:24Josh Horowitz?

  You've ruined Dune for me now. Every time I'm gonna watch it, I'm gonna, I'm saying, there's the horny-thropper.

• 24:28Speaker 03

  I know. My, yeah, my space suit, the, the Fremen suit, the still suit.

• 24:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  They all had buckles and being, mine was Velcro, so I could just go.

• 24:39Josh Horowitz?

  That was yours only? It was the custom Velcro version? It's good to be you.

• 24:44Speaker 03

  I don't know. I mean, to be honest, it's quite hindering in the world. It's fun, but it's also-

• 24:51Josh Horowitz?

  Fun to talk about in a podcast, but in the day to day-

• 24:53Speaker 03

  You said, close the door. I've already checked that the windows go, yeah.

• 24:56Josh Horowitz?

  I'm sorry, I just set you off. I triggered you.

• 24:57Speaker 03

  It's okay, we're all right.

• 24:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Are we though?

• 25:02Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so you kind of manifested this. You were a casual Peaky fan, a big Killian fan.

• 25:06Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 25:06Josh Horowitz?

  Can we manifest anything else? Is there a TV show, a film franchise that, just as a fan, would be nice to get that phone call?

• 25:14Speaker 03

  I mean, yes, I mean, I am inspired and in awe watching what Jessie Buckley is doing right now.

• 25:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:23Speaker 03

  And there's nothing of me saying I'd like to take it away. It's more looking and going, there is phenomenal filmmakers out there. There are possibilities out there and something I'd love to get into.

• 25:37Speaker 03

  I guess it's the drama, you know, I hate the word character driven because it's such a bland, boring comment.

• 25:44Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you would hope everything is character driven.

• 25:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. I mean, I know, it's like you play powerful women, you know, or.

• 25:50Josh Horowitz?

  I play a woman and hopefully there's power and weakness in all of it.

• 25:54Speaker 03

  All of it, but I think for me, it's maybe the sort of the two-hander. It's the, it's the stillness, it's, it's everyday sort of. I'd love to get into that, the dark, gritty feelings that we don't express.

• 26:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:06Speaker 03

  And just to tether into them and feel them and strain them and pull them and cut them. That's what I want to do.

• 26:12Josh Horowitz?

  Does Rebecca Ferguson still have to audition? Are those days behind you? You don't, you shouldn't have to audition, I'm gonna say it out loud.

• 26:18Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't audition, no. I, I remember when there was a moment when it was like, you've been offered this and I thought,

• 26:26Speaker 03

  is that happening now?

• 26:29Speaker 03

  But we still do sometimes, you know, generals, when you just wanna, it's for the director to feel you. Denny and I did it for June.

• 26:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:37Speaker 03

  Denny called and he wanted to have a, a meeting and I think he wanted to feel me out.

• 26:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, as a human.

• 26:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, and how we would work together, you know? It's not all about what's gonna be displayed in front of camera. It's how are you gonna receive me and, and my ideas? And equally to me, you know, it's, it's not always a one-way streak.

• 26:59Josh Horowitz?

  Right, because you're, you're spending months and months and months and it's not just the role, it is the lifestyle, it is.

• 27:05Speaker 03

  And looking back now, two films later, I regret it. I shouldn't have done it.

• 27:09Josh Horowitz?

  It's three films, isn't it? Didn't you do three of them?

• 27:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, it hasn't come out yet.

• 27:14Josh Horowitz?

  Are co-stars now afraid to fuck around on set with you? Since your infamous comments a couple of years back. You outed a celebrity without saying that, saying who it was. That's probably like a nice byproduct. It's like fuck around and find out Rebecca Ferguson is watching.

• 27:30Speaker 03

  I think my intention going into that podcast, he was great and I wasn't, again, thinking that I was doing something. I think the conversation we had was about what have you learned through your years of filming?

• 27:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:46Speaker 03

  And sort of working with other people. And the memory came up and it was nothing preempted. And I don't want to out anyone. And I know it becomes interesting and exciting and everyone goes down the street. But I could care fuck all for people to find out. The whole journey was, why is it so hard sometimes in environments to speak up? Why is it that some people, whether it is insecurities, get the autonomy to be dicks or whatever they are? What gives them the right?

• 28:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:19Speaker 03

  But then I take the responsibility in my own hands and say, why do I give them the right?

• 28:23Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:24Speaker 03

  And that's maturity. And that is also in hierarchical settings. You know, people talk about number ones on call sheets, et cetera. But it's a really difficult balance. And I think it's in any job, you know? It doesn't matter which one it is. There will always be people where you feel lesser than and they make you feel lesser than.

• 28:42Josh Horowitz?

  And it's who has the power, whether it's on a set or anything.

• 28:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:45Josh Horowitz?

  And, you know.

• 28:46Speaker 03

  And to be able to go, oh, from the moment you walked in, I don't feel safe.

• 28:51Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:51Speaker 03

  And what's happening is this dynamic now is making me feel that I can't be my best.

• 28:57Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:58Speaker 03

  And I'm only doing everything to please you because you're so unstable for me. And that is not me blaming the other person. That is me going, how do I gain that power back? And I can still find that hard. So I don't know if people are scared. I think, I think. Everyone is so different and I would never want everyone across the board to be just generally nice people, but no, I like creative crazy.

• 29:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:26Speaker 03

  But...

• 29:27Josh Horowitz?

  There's a difference between creative discussion, argument, even arguments at times.

• 29:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:32Josh Horowitz?

  And creating an environment that closes you, closes others off.

• 29:34Speaker 03

  And I would like people in the beginning of their career to know that you have a voice and you have a right, but it's hard when you don't have the backup of other people once you voice it.

• 29:44Josh Horowitz?

  So have you put a clause in the will 75 years from now, this person shall be named upon my death?

• 29:50Speaker 03

  No. No, I'm not eager to run towards the script where they might be, but everyone changes. And also to that, even me.

• 29:59Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  So who knows what that would be like now.

• 30:01Josh Horowitz?

  We'll be right back with more Happy, Sad, Confused.

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• 31:12Josh Horowitz?

  So backtracking a bit, I've heard you talk about like, growing up, like, this wasn't the goal. You were kind of a bit of a late bloomer and kind of like discovering this as a passion. Is that fair to say?

• 31:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, it kind of came to me.

• 31:24Josh Horowitz?

  Like, what were you like as a teenager? Were you kind of just seeking like, who you were?

• 31:28Speaker 03

  I mean, I got my first role when I was 15. So I was young.

• 31:33Josh Horowitz?

  You were thrust into it, or through happenstance it happened.

• 31:36Speaker 03

  And the casting process probably happened late 14, going into 15.

• 31:42Speaker 03

  But I went to a very good music school in Sweden.

• 31:46Speaker 03

  Our choir sang at the Nobel dinners and it was a really, really prestigious, good school. And the expectation of our school, the grades, we were much, took longer for us to get higher grades. So if you left the school and went to another one, all of your grades went up one bump. So a lot of people did that, leaving, very smart of them. Stupid people like myself stayed and got mediocre grades. But I think I was always quite, I had a very eccentric mother and a father who was sort of very much of a Swede, comfortable sort of lawyer. And I was in the two different worlds.

• 32:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 32:24Speaker 03

  And chameleon through a divorce. And I think I wanted to just be normal and whatever that was, I didn't know. But I didn't want to stand out.

• 32:34Josh Horowitz?

  This is not unique to you. Any young person, generally speaking, at least for a phase of their life, is like, just, I don't want to...

• 32:41Speaker 03

  I just don't want, and yet the eagerness, there was the eccentricness kind of came out. But once it came and people watched you, I would blush and I didn't know what to do with it. So I was very lost finding myself as a kid. Because I also didn't really have that freedom and the safe space to find it. You know, divorces are hard and, you know, I love my dad, I love my mom, we have a great relationship. But growing up, if you don't have your shit sorted when you're divorced, it usually hands goes on to the kid.

• 33:13Josh Horowitz?

  Well luckily, you found your voice with Ocean Avenue. That's where you really came into your own.

• 33:20Josh Horowitz?

  For those that don't know, and I know you talked about this...

• 33:22Speaker 03

  For those that don't know, let's go into it, shall we?

• 33:24Josh Horowitz?

  A Swedish-American soap opera.

• 33:25Speaker 03

  Megan Fox was in that.

• 33:26Josh Horowitz?

  I know, a Swedish-American soap opera filmed in Miami Beach. You, Megan Fox. I think there are 130 hours that you guys made of this?

• 33:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I think they aired two episodes and then they cancelled it.

• 33:39Josh Horowitz?

  I don't even.

• 33:40Speaker 03

  I don't even.

• 33:41Josh Horowitz?

  There needs to be a documentary about this.

• 33:42Speaker 03

  I mean, there should be, and thank God there isn't. But it was a funny one. The creators, I think, had made Dawson's Creek, which is so weird, because I met Joshua.

• 33:51Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 33:52Speaker 03

  Today, for the first time.

• 33:53Josh Horowitz?

  Joshua Jackson.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  And I was weirdly awestruck and a bit starstruck.

• 33:57Josh Horowitz?

  You were colleagues before.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  Because.

• 33:59Josh Horowitz?

  You were basically working in the same field.

• 34:01Speaker 03

  Well, not really. So I think they said, this is going to become like a Dawson's Creek. And I was like, that's amazing. But it turned into pre-bad soap opera to like, one of those really bad porn films.

• 34:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:14Speaker 03

  You know, bad lighting.

• 34:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:16Speaker 03

  Bad writing.

• 34:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Without the fun sex stuff.

• 34:19Speaker 03

  With none of it. I mean, absolutely none. But I was 17.

• 34:23Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, my God.

• 34:24Speaker 03

  And I lived on Miami Beach. And it was a hoot. You know, it's one of those moments that you don't.

• 34:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:30Speaker 03

  You don't regret.

• 34:32Josh Horowitz?

  So did you overlap with Megan? Did you know Megan Fox at the time?

• 34:35Speaker 03

  No, I mean, we were different circles. And I think I was a bit older, she was younger, she was in another crew, I was with the Swedes.

• 34:43Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 34:43Speaker 03

  And she wasn't Megan Fox, you know. And we also had one of the singers from Pussycat Dolls. Like, it was a weird ensemble.

• 34:50Josh Horowitz?

  This needs to be rebooted. It's time to do a sequel.

• 34:53Speaker 03

  Absolutely not. But we had really famous stage actors from Sweden in the show, yeah.

• 34:59Josh Horowitz?

  It's a job.

• 35:00Speaker 03

  It's a job.

• 35:01Josh Horowitz?

  Also a job. How about this as a segue? Mission Impossible, we've talked many times about this one.

• 35:06Speaker 03

  Which one?

• 35:07Josh Horowitz?

  It's OK.

• 35:08Speaker 03

  OK.

• 35:08Josh Horowitz?

  It's OK. Did you ever find out who the actor was that they were going to cast?

• 35:11Speaker 03

  Nope. Did you?

• 35:12Josh Horowitz?

  No, I'm sure it's.

• 35:13Speaker 03

  Oh, OK. Oh, I thought you did.

• 35:14Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, one of us.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  For a second there, I went, Jesse Buckley? No, I get it.

• 35:21Josh Horowitz?

  How did you? Did you watch Final Reckoning? Did you ever see it?

• 35:24Speaker 03

  The last one?

• 35:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:26Josh Horowitz?

  OK.

• 35:27Speaker 03

  Did you?

• 35:27Josh Horowitz?

  Of course.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:29Josh Horowitz?

  So how did you feel about Ilsa's passing in Dead Reckoning, Part One? Can we have a little bit of a postmortem on that?

• 35:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think.

• 35:39Speaker 03

  She was so brilliantly written and it was so well executed. And I think there's just sort of that much you can do with a character until she starts feeling like a team player.

• 35:55Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 35:56Speaker 03

  And I think we had these conversations, me and Chris and Tom. And my contract was a three-picture deal, you know, so you can renegotiate to move on or you can sit down and go, I'm not sure there is enough room, you know, it's Ethan. It's his story and there's a lot of other people in, you know, we have incredible Vanessa Kirby, Hayley Apple, Pam Clemente.

• 36:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:17Speaker 03

  So I think a hard exit is a cooler ending.

• 36:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:24Speaker 03

  Than kind of lukewarmly diluting into a team.

• 36:28Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 36:29Speaker 03

  Because she was always supposed to be unpredictable. She was always supposed to be an equal and was to Ethan.

• 36:36Josh Horowitz?

  Did you, were you happy enough with the actual, that exit was chosen in terms of the death scene, that sequence?

• 36:42Speaker 03

  I don't write it.

• 36:43Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, okay. What did you make of the fan response of like, everybody was like, she's coming back, she's not really dead.

• 36:49Speaker 03

  I know.

• 36:50Josh Horowitz?

  And you, you didn't want to, you know, rate on their parade, but you knew the truth.

• 36:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:55Josh Horowitz?

  Was that odd to kind of like be on the outside looking in? I mean, it must be lovely to see the fans that just had such a connection with that character.

• 37:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's sad because she was so well executed. Chris, Chris wrote an incredible character and it was, it was also so much fun to be a part of. Like, it was such an extreme, I will never experience anything like it.

• 37:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:16Speaker 03

  What comes with traveling and the training and the camaraderie and it's just, it's phenomenal.

• 37:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:21Speaker 03

  And I think there's nothing more to be said. There was an ending, it needed to happen, you know, there are different versions to how it happens and why it happens and, and I think people were sad because she was so well executed, you know, and, and it's a big risk to kill someone off like that.

• 37:41Josh Horowitz?

  Did Ethan and Elsa ever sleep together?

• 37:44Speaker 03

  No.

• 37:45Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, I'm just checking, you would know.

• 37:46Speaker 03

  Absolutely not.

• 37:47Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 37:48Speaker 03

  I saw them more. As, I don't, it sounds incestuous to say siblings because there was clear moments of infatuation. But again, I didn't, I didn't direct it. You know, I can offer up ideas or I can question why she would look longingly at Ethan in a gondola, but if your director wants something, then that's what your director gets. And, and they edited together and you kind of, you're stuck with that outcome. But what I loved about her was the unpredictability and her strength.

• 38:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yes. One scene I do want to mention before moving on, because it's an all-timer and it's in your first appearance in the, in the series. Rogue Nation, the Opera House sequence.

• 38:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:31Josh Horowitz?

  It's an all-timer. It is a perfect marriage of editing, music, action, suspense.

• 38:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's phenomenal.

• 38:36Josh Horowitz?

  Do you remember the first time you saw it all put together? I mean, does that, is that, do you have, hold that in the high estimation that everybody else does?

• 38:43Speaker 03

  Mission, you only get to see, many films you do, you get pre-screenings.

• 38:47Josh Horowitz?

  Right. But you're there at the premiere with us.

• 38:49Speaker 03

  Mission, you see on the first day with the audience at the premiere. And it was a huge screen that they set up in the Opera House.

• 38:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 38:59Speaker 03

  Was it an IMAX? I think they set up that, wasn't it?

• 39:03Josh Horowitz?

  All I remember is it started about two and a half hours later and I was hungry, but I was still happy.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  I know, but Tom does, you know.

• 39:08Josh Horowitz?

  He did, does everybody. He did a wardrobe change in the middle of that carpet.

• 39:10Speaker 03

  Did he?

• 39:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yes, he disappeared for half an hour.

• 39:13Speaker 03

  And we're all going, Tom, mate.

• 39:16Josh Horowitz?

  I get, I appreciate it and I love it.

• 39:17Speaker 03

  That is so Tom, he will rock in going, what are we waiting for? And I go, you, always you, when he bursts out laughing. He's like, okay, come on.

• 39:24Josh Horowitz?

  But the point is that when you saw that, you saw what McHugh had done and you were impressed by that sequence.

• 39:30Speaker 03

  It was great, yeah. It's a good sequence.

• 39:32Josh Horowitz?

  It's amazing. All right, so you touched a little bit on Dune. I'm always astounded by folks like Denis, Nolan, they talk about like this too, of like, these folks that work at the biggest scale possible and are yet very actor-friendly seemingly from, by all accounts. What is he, how is he accomplishing that on set? Can you pinpoint for me a little bit what he does?

• 39:52Speaker 03

  There is no one like Denny. He is actually Tom Harper, he also has... There's a genuine kindness. And it's a very fine balance to be able to maintain generosity, a softness. He leans back, he listens, but he has authority.

• 40:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 40:16Speaker 03

  You have enormous respect for him. If you're gonna come in with an idea, come with it. He might take it, he might not. He might walk away halfway through your sentence because he's thinking and you stand there. Sometimes he comes back, we laugh so much. It's so Denny, he goes, wait two seconds. And he goes, and he goes, and he comes back and he goes, I was thinking about it. But he comes back two hours later and you go, okay, you processed. But he's just intelligent, creative. He's a master. And he works with people that he makes better and they make him better. It's a symbiosis and there are far and few in between.

• 40:55Josh Horowitz?

  Can you compare and contrast your experience on the third part? I mean, by all accounts, you could not have been in the third part.

• 41:01Speaker 03

  I just dipped my toe in. I have literally no, I have no sort of comments on it. The script is great, I've read it. I think it's gonna be fantastic, but my journey was number one and two.

• 41:12Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  I don't even think she was supposed to be in three.

• 41:14Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly, that's what I'm saying.

• 41:15Speaker 03

  And then Denny was like, I need to have one scene.

• 41:18Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 41:19Speaker 03

  And I get one scene. But that was a weird feeling, walking onto a set that you know so well and knowing that you don't have a part of it.

• 41:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  It's sort of, there's a lot of FOMO.

• 41:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:34Speaker 03

  And the acceptance of this is just what it is.

• 41:38Josh Horowitz?

  Right, serving the story at the end of the day.

• 41:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, just serve.

• 41:42Josh Horowitz?

  So you read the entire script though? It's not one of those things where you get your three pages.

• 41:44Speaker 03

  Oh, no, no, no, but I always read an entire script. I would never go into anything blind.

• 41:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you could be burned that way.

• 41:51Speaker 03

  Also, no, why would I? We do it for the film, for the viewing of it.

• 41:56Josh Horowitz?

  Where is Doctor Sleep in your rankings? Rose is such a special character.

• 41:59Speaker 03

  He's a good one, isn't she?

• 42:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, delicious to play and enjoyable one to play despite.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  Animated, over the top.

• 42:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, good wardrobe.

• 42:06Speaker 03

  Quirky.

• 42:06Josh Horowitz?

  Good hats.

• 42:07Speaker 03

  Good hat, barefoot.

• 42:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I love, we worked with a guy called Terry Notary, who's, do you know?

• 42:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  He did many of the apes and planets of the, he's un- Believable. If you haven't watched on YouTube.

• 42:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:20Speaker 03

  There's a moment where he goes through four different monkeys.

• 42:24Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 42:25Speaker 03

  In his body movement, using crutches for the gorilla.

• 42:28Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 42:29Speaker 03

  Ah, he's so good. But we talked about this animalistic group of people who suck steam. We didn't go far enough into it, I wish we had, but nearly like cockroaches and creatures and how they crawl on top. It became more sensual and sexual.

• 42:45Speaker 03

  But I think what we were trying to do is more animalistic, but it's hard to move a whole group.

• 42:50Josh Horowitz?

  Are you interested in, have you done performance capture? Have you done that?

• 42:53Speaker 03

  No.

• 42:53Josh Horowitz?

  Does that intrigue you at all?

• 42:54Speaker 03

  No.

• 42:55Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 42:55Speaker 03

  What, performance art?

• 42:56Josh Horowitz?

  Performance, well, performance capture, meaning.

• 42:58Speaker 03

  Oh, performance capture, sorry.

• 42:59Josh Horowitz?

  Sorry, meaning like the ape thing.

• 43:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought you meant like Marina Abramovich or stuff.

• 43:02Josh Horowitz?

  That's it, you'd be amazing. Get in a museum and just stand there for 12 days.

• 43:06Speaker 03

  Wow. Well, who knows?

• 43:09Josh Horowitz?

  No, but a performance capture, like the Avatar, the ape thing.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  I did, I've done, I've done, when I played Morgana, Morgana in The Kid Who'd Be King.

• 43:16Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yes.

• 43:16Speaker 03

  I got to have the onesie and the dots and I had a huge, long fishing pole with a, with a tennis ball hanging on it.

• 43:24Josh Horowitz?

  The dream of being an actor.

• 43:25Speaker 03

  I grew.

• 43:26Josh Horowitz?

  But did you find that?

• 43:27Speaker 03

  Jump around, absolutely. I felt ridiculous and I loved it.

• 43:31Josh Horowitz?

  You've said, but you've never done theater. Does that not intrigue you?

• 43:34Speaker 03

  It does, and I've never done it. It's come to me a couple of times.

• 43:38Josh Horowitz?

  I'm sure.

• 43:39Speaker 03

  But I've either been too busy filming or it's been something too grand. I remember John Hurt saying to me, when we worked on Hercules. He said, if you ever get roles, or if you get a role to be on stage, you work yourselves from the smaller theaters up to the big. You never start big.

• 43:58Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 43:59Speaker 03

  And I had an offer once to go on to one of the big stages or theaters. And I just heard his voice mantra in my head and I thought, no, it's just a no. Stop asking me, it's just a no.

• 44:10Josh Horowitz?

  He's one of those that's come up. Gary Oldman talks about him a lot, like he was like, kind of his mentor.

• 44:16Speaker 03

  Isn't Gary incredible? He gave me a hug once and I nearly, my legs nearly just gave away.

• 44:21Josh Horowitz?

  I, I'm gonna like tear up thinking about all my conversations with him. He's the best.

• 44:24Speaker 03

  He's phenomenal.

• 44:25Josh Horowitz?

  And.

• 44:26Speaker 03

  He's so bloody earthy.

• 44:28Josh Horowitz?

  And yet also still has like all the anxieties and self, you know, like he doesn't think he's the most brilliant actor.

• 44:35Speaker 03

  Bit of torment.

• 44:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, which is so endearing. I don't trust the actors that think they're God's gift.

• 44:39Speaker 03

  No, and you shouldn't. Have you ever met any of those?

• 44:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:41Speaker 03

  Have you?

• 44:42Josh Horowitz?

  I'm sure probably the actor you're not talking about is one of them.

• 44:45Speaker 03

  No.

• 44:46Josh Horowitz?

  No?

• 44:46Speaker 03

  No.

• 44:47Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 44:47Speaker 03

  I think a lot of bad behavior comes from insecurity.

• 44:51Josh Horowitz?

  True.

• 44:52Speaker 03

  And I think people who are secure, I don't really know what. I haven't really met an actor who walks onto stage

• 44:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:58Speaker 03

  completely full of themself and woe is me.

• 45:01Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right. No, I just, I trust the ones that doubt.

• 45:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, and also curious. Curiosity is so important.

• 45:09Josh Horowitz?

  It keeps you sharp too, if you think you're, you know, the next job could go one of two ways.

• 45:14Speaker 03

  No, it's like Killian said, you're only as good as your next job. That's all you have, you know?

• 45:18Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so you've finished Silo. We have three and four coming up in the next couple of years.

• 45:24Josh Horowitz?

  Where's your head at? I mean, would you do another series right now? Do you need a different kind of experience?

• 45:30Speaker 03

  I am treading very carefully with my choices right now.

• 45:37Speaker 03

  I do not want to lock myself into a long show.

• 45:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:41Speaker 03

  With that said, I had this conversation with Killian. And I was like, would you ever, you know, do another limited or a show? And he was like, for me, it's not the format. It is just down to the writing.

• 45:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:54Speaker 03

  If the writing is there, other things can be acceptable, you know? And I've always read scripts and kind of gone, yeah, there's a story here. I like the story. The writing isn't great, the dialogue isn't great, but we can work on that.

• 46:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:07Speaker 03

  And now I'm at a stage where I go, zero tolerance for bad dialogue writing. And it's so unique to get something

• 46:14Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 46:15Speaker 03

  where you feel it come to life, you know?

• 46:18Josh Horowitz?

  And do you know just from experience that even with the best of intentions, like, yeah, we're gonna work on it? It's never gonna get better.

• 46:23Speaker 03

  It's so hard though, isn't it? You know, I was talking to someone about TV shows and I was like, well, I wonder what Succession was like. You know, I think Succession was amazing and so well-written. And I thought, oh, I'll read the first episode. So I read it and I was like, it's, obviously the acting is sublime, but the writing

• 46:39Josh Horowitz?

  Was there.

• 46:40Speaker 03

  is just, it just exudes out of the script.

• 46:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  So I feel like I'm at a point where I can Hold out and not have to jump into anything. I'm not in between two seasons of Silo and wanting to do something else.

• 46:59Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  Just to get, you fill the gap.

• 47:01Josh Horowitz?

  You're good.

• 47:01Speaker 03

  Right now.

• 47:02Josh Horowitz?

  You've earned a...

• 47:03Speaker 03

  I can just stay a bit cool and see what comes.

• 47:06Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's kind of like where Killian was coming off of Oppenheimer. He didn't jump into like five things. He like, I love that he like went back to his close collaborators. He did Steve, he did this.

• 47:14Speaker 03

  Although I did say to him, if you are doing The Bone Temple 2, fuck, I want to be, that's phenomenal.

• 47:21Josh Horowitz?

  Oh my god.

• 47:21Speaker 03

  I know.

• 47:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I'm...

• 47:22Speaker 03

  He was like, there's nothing for you.

• 47:25Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 47:25Speaker 03

  No, he didn't say that.

• 47:27Josh Horowitz?

  You could be a zombie, you could just run around.

• 47:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. Again, a bloody teacup.

• 47:31Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, we're gonna end with this. Happy, sad, confused, profoundly random questions for you. Don't kill your career like Jessie Buckley did. Dogs or cats?

• 47:39Speaker 03

  I wish I could say dogs, but I have cats.

• 47:43Josh Horowitz?

  No apologies.

• 47:45Speaker 03

  Good.

• 47:47Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect?

• 47:48Speaker 03

  What I collect?

• 47:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, do you collect anything?

• 47:50Speaker 03

  Stolen items from set.

• 47:52Josh Horowitz?

  That's just called being a thief, that's just...

• 47:54Speaker 03

  Oh, just borrowing on long term.

• 47:56Josh Horowitz?

  Eh, are you ever going to return?

• 47:57Speaker 03

  Liberate, not much, maybe. I do collect, I have so much stuff from films.

• 48:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:03Speaker 03

  One of my favorite ones is a skull from Hercules. And it is so good, the skull, and it's got the teeth and the hair. And my daughter, when she was five, had show and tell at school. And I was like, I know what, you could do the skull. And being my daughter, she was like, that's amazing. She walked in with a little Sainsbury's plastic bag. And apparently was told to put it straight back in because she was creating a very uneasy environment for the other children.

• 48:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you got a phone call from the school, like, I'm glad the Rebecca Ferguson vibes are being passed on to them.

• 48:36Josh Horowitz?

  Probably the Ferguson kid. Real video gamer, favorite video game of all time?

• 48:42Speaker 03

  Mario, any form of Mario, Mario Kart and Crash Bandicoot. I am simple and old school.

• 48:47Josh Horowitz?

  Perfect. The Dakota Johnson memorial question, she asked me this. Would you rather have a mouthful of peas or one pea in your butt?

• 48:53Speaker 03

  A mouthful of peas or a pea in my butt?

• 48:55Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, not pea, bee, I'm sorry, it's not that easy. Oh.

• 48:57Speaker 03

  Oh, bees in my mouth or one pea in my butt? Ooh.

• 49:03Speaker 03

  Both.

• 49:04Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, that's a new one. New territory.

• 49:07Speaker 03

  Sorry, I thought we are supposed to enjoy it, right?

• 49:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. What's the wallpaper on your phone, Rebecca?

• 49:15Speaker 03

  I have a picture of my my son and myself. It's a Polaroid picture.

• 49:23Josh Horowitz?

  Sweet.

• 49:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:24Josh Horowitz?

  What's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 49:29Speaker 03

  What is my agenda? Think about your cash you're getting paid.

• 49:34Speaker 03

  Which wasn't much, by the way.

• 49:37Josh Horowitz?

  Is this the same infamous set? No, different experience.

• 49:39Speaker 03

  No, different experience.

• 49:40Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, last thing for you. In the spirit of happy, sad, confused. An actor who always makes you happy.

• 49:48Speaker 03

  Oh, Steve Zahn.

• 49:50Josh Horowitz?

  Great, love it. Movie that makes you sad?

• 49:57Speaker 03

  What was the last thing? Adolescence was the last thing I watched that really made me sad. I can't watch Hamlet.

• 50:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 50:04Speaker 03

  Sirat.

• 50:05Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, amazing.

• 50:06Speaker 03

  Amazing, but also heavy. Yeah.

• 50:09Josh Horowitz?

  And a food that makes you confused. You don't get it.

• 50:14Speaker 03

  Oh, that's such a good question.

• 50:17Speaker 03

  Fries on a pizza.

• 50:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, why? They're both great on their own.

• 50:21Speaker 03

  Or sausage in the pizza dough.

• 50:24Josh Horowitz?

  In the pizza dough.

• 50:25Speaker 03

  So where you hold.

• 50:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:27Speaker 03

  Then in America, they put sausage. So once you're done with a pizza, you turn it and you've got a fucking hot dog.

• 50:32Josh Horowitz?

  Don't blame, this is not an American, this is not like all of Americans are doing this.

• 50:35Speaker 03

  All the Americans do this, across the board.

• 50:37Josh Horowitz?

  We have a lot of bad things, that's not something.

• 50:39Speaker 03

  Daylight saving and sausage in the pizza crust.

• 50:42Josh Horowitz?

  Pizza Hut has been doing this for decades, just inserting things into the crust. Why are we doing it?

• 50:46Speaker 03

  No, minimalism.

• 50:49Josh Horowitz?

  Peaky Blinders.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:51Josh Horowitz?

  The Immortal Man.

• 50:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:53Josh Horowitz?

  It's fantastic, everybody should check it out.

• 50:54Speaker 03

  They should.

• 50:55Josh Horowitz?

  And if they know what's good for them. And we're gonna talk Silo, I'm sure, later this year, next year.

• 51:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 51:01Josh Horowitz?

  A lot of work to discuss. Thanks for doing this.

• 51:03Speaker 03

  Thank you. Thank you for doing this.

• 51:06Josh Horowitz?

  That's the next film. Not yet.

• 51:07Speaker 03

  That is a Killian joke.

• 51:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I heard you said he's a dad joke guy.

• 51:11Speaker 03

  He's a dad joke guy.

• 51:12Josh Horowitz?

  Who would've thunk it?

• 51:13Speaker 03

  Not me. It was confusing once it happened.

• 51:16Josh Horowitz?

  Are you a mom joke person? Are there mom jokes?

• 51:18Speaker 03

  Well, in a sexist world, there should be. In a sex, equal sex.

• 51:23Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 51:24Speaker 03

  There should be. I don't know, we don't really say mom jokes, do we?

• 51:27Josh Horowitz?

  No, I've never heard of. What would that be? That's just jokes.

• 51:29Speaker 03

  Just brilliant, intelligent jokes.

• 51:31Josh Horowitz?

  There you go.

• 51:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:33Josh Horowitz?

  Good to see you.

• 51:36Speaker 05

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 51:55Speaker 06

  Hey, first time? Love those sneakers. Thanks. Depop. Got them. Cheap. Oh yeah? Okay, downloading. There's loads on there. Wow. Wish I'd had this last week. I just paid full price for mine. Oh, right? And you can't get these ones anywhere. Find what you want for less on Depop. Sneakers worn once. Excellent condition.