Paul Bettany, Vol. II

Paul Bettany is back and so is Vision with the upcoming Marvel series, Visionquest! But first up for the actor is the Starz series, AMADEUS, co-starring Will Sharpe. Here Paul chats about all of it including the unlikely film that landed him his Marvel role, whatever happened to the MASTER & COMMANDER sequel, his memories of Heath Ledger and more. Plus, Benjamin Wagner joins Josh to talk about his new documentary, FRIENDS & NEIGHBORS, in which he confronts the chronic stress epidemic and his own personal journey with it. Watch FRIENDS & NEIGHBORS now on VOD! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 5/17 -- Billy Eichner in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 5/18 -- Power Ballad w/Paul Rudd & Nick Jonas -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Speaker 02

  I remember just reading, I was on my knees firing a blast from my forehead or something. It's in the first film and he was, he was like, so, how did it, how do you feel? You good? And I went, how does it feel? I, what do you, I have no, does it look cool? Like I'm, I'm pretending to fire a laser beam out of my forehead. I have no idea how it feels. It feels a bit silly, but then, you know, put a laser beam on there, that's pretty cool.

• 1:34Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 1:41Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Today on the show, Paul Bettany, Talking Marvel, Amadeus, and so much more. This is a fun one. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. Remember to hit that subscribe button on YouTube or Spotify. However you're doing it, don't miss a single episode. We do about two of these a week usually, so there's a lot to enjoy. Later on in the episode, I do want to mention this. So we have Paul Bettany as the main event. Later on, stick around because we have a special little bonus conversation with an Old friend of mine, an old coworker who has directed a great new film called Friends and Neighbors. His name is Benjamin Wagner. Uh, this is a great new film about dealing with chronic stress in his own personal life and how we all are and how

• 2:22Josh Horowitz?

  through connection, hopefully we're all kind of getting through the, the collective stress we're all dealing with today. That's coming up later after the Paul Bettany conversation. Okay. So before we get to that though, Paul consummate actor. A, a consummate charming man. He's the ultimate charming man, right? Come on. He can do it all, including play Vision in all the different Marvel incarnations, including the upcoming Vision Quest, some nice teases about that upcoming show. And also a deep dive into his, his role in the new Amadeus mini-series. This is the newest adaptation of the play by Peter Schaffer, that of course inspired the great film in the eighties. Um, Paul is always a great conversation and this one certainly lived up to that.

• 3:05Josh Horowitz?

  As always, check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happy say confused for discount codes and early access to all our episodes. Discount codes to our live events. We do a ton of them. We've got a lot coming up in May and June. All the information is in the show notes. Check it out. Patreon.com/happy say confused. Okay. It's a packed show, so I'll shut up for now. So you can hear the two guests later on Benjamin Wagner. Check that one out. But for now, here is me and Paul Bettany. Paul, we're doing it. Are you ready for this?

• 3:34Speaker 02

  Let's do it.

• 3:35Josh Horowitz?

  Were you gonna swear at me?

• 3:36Speaker 02

  No, let's fucking do it.

• 3:37Josh Horowitz?

  Fucking do it, Paul.

• 3:38Speaker 02

  Fucking do it. Fucking podcast. Do it now.

• 3:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Hey, welcome back, man. It's good to see you.

• 3:44Speaker 02

  It's lovely to be here.

• 3:46Josh Horowitz?

  Congrats on all things. We're going to talk Amadeus. We'll preview some other news, visionary thing, whatever. We'll keep talking about that, some other things. But, um, first of all, I track everybody by their Instagram. So based on your Instagram, here's what Paul Bettany is up to lately. Some skiing?

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. Went skiing in Switzerland. Amazing.

• 4:04Josh Horowitz?

  You, you vouch for this. It sounds in theory like that would be fun.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  It is. It is my happy place.

• 4:10Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 4:10Speaker 02

  It's, yeah, it's schemes like flying in your dreams and, and I, well, as close as you can get to it and I. Just I love to I love to ski.

• 4:21Josh Horowitz?

  Have you ever had an injury? I feel like I I haven't skied in a number of years and I I worry in my old age now that I'm.

• 4:27Speaker 02

  Oh, no. What I love about it, we were skiing with people, we were skiing with a three year old and an eighty year old. I mean, you can, you can, and the eighty year old ripping it.

• 4:37Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 4:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, yeah, it's really, I don't know if there's another sport that is that multi generational.

• 4:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and then I saw some dog content. We were talking before you walked in.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Yes, Wallace is potentially the love of my life. She's she's certainly the love of Jennifer's.

• 4:56Josh Horowitz?

  How long has Wallace been in your lives?

• 4:59Speaker 02

  Uh, Wallace is nearly seven. Um, and, um, just.

• 5:06Josh Horowitz?

  Who who's Wallace's favorite?

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Jennifer.

• 5:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, my dog too, my my wife.

• 5:11Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 5:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, it's not even.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  They are, and when when Jennifer's at home, they're inseparable. And and she's a golden retriever and that, you know, they they're leaners. They just wherever Jennifer is, she's lent against Jennifer.

• 5:28Josh Horowitz?

  Were you always a dog person or?

• 5:29Speaker 02

  Yes, well, I I love cats too. But, um, uh, yeah, I love I love dogs.

• 5:36Josh Horowitz?

  Right, we've been.

• 5:37Speaker 02

  We don't deserve dogs.

• 5:38Josh Horowitz?

  We really don't.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  Perfect.

• 5:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, we got ours about five years ago, Lucy, and she's a pit mix and it's just like all love. It's absurd.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  It's just the best.

• 5:47Josh Horowitz?

  We're gonna continue this on the dog show another time. But and then I see a lot of photography. Maybe your muse now is is one of your children, Stellan. I feel like you've been photographing Stellan a lot.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  Um, oh, yeah, well, he was just here and we were we were out in some, we went for a walk in Red Hook and it's Red Hook's weirdly photogenic and, um, so.

• 6:07Josh Horowitz?

  And how's Stellan? Is he photogenic as well?

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Not really. Uh, he takes off for his mother. Uh, and he he is the, yeah, so we were just taking, I love to take pictures. That's the other thing that I love to do. And I have, um, a beautiful, expensive camera with expensive lenses that make me look like.

• 6:27Josh Horowitz?

  You know what you're doing?

• 6:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, um, and I mean, they're so expensive that I have lied to Jennifer about how expensive they are. So.

• 6:36Josh Horowitz?

  That's the indulgence, that's the major indulgence.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  I told my son that if I die. He should inform Jennifer not to sell those cameras.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  At the price I said they were.

• 6:50Josh Horowitz?

  Double it, at least.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:53Josh Horowitz?

  Was was Stalin named after Stalin Skarsgard, by the way?

• 6:56Speaker 02

  He was, yeah.

• 6:56Josh Horowitz?

  That's amazing. So you worked, was that, that was Dogville way back when, right?

• 7:00Speaker 02

  It was way back when he had Dogville and another movie, incidentally, called Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.

• 7:06Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  Um, which not the Downey Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, but a, a, another Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. And I've just fell head over heels in love with Stalin. And, and he became a real mentor for me and.

• 7:27Josh Horowitz?

  He's singular. Yeah, I got, I got a chance to spend a bit of time with him over this last award season. I mean, how great was he?

• 7:32Speaker 02

  He was amazing.

• 7:33Josh Horowitz?

  I mean.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  Amazing. And the film is just fantastic.

• 7:37Josh Horowitz?

  Obsessed with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but what is he, why, why did he, I mean, this is a dumb question, but why was he, why did he stand out to you at that time as someone that?

• 7:46Speaker 02

  He's, he was incre, well, A and one, he was incredibly honest about, um.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Acting and very accessible when, to talk about acting and was, um. Really generous in a way that I think at times older actors find it hard to be with younger actors.

• 8:09Josh Horowitz?

  Mm hmm.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  And, um. And he is, he's just a, is a very, um, kind and hilarious, um, man. And, um.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  None of his humor comes from cruelty, which, and that's hard to do.

• 8:28Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Um, all of mine does.

• 8:32Josh Horowitz?

  I went the other way. I just.

• 8:35Josh Horowitz?

  They're the Don Rickles of the MCU.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I went the other way. Uh, yeah, he is, um, he's, he's very, he's brilliantly funny and, um. And I thought.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  What a, what a, what a great namesake for, for style.

• 8:52Josh Horowitz?

  Um.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  My son.

• 8:54Josh Horowitz?

  I did see one of your buddies recently. I caught up, uh, with, uh, with Yelson.

• 8:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:59Josh Horowitz?

  I asked her what she had to say to you because you guys haven't spent enough time. She was really focused on your beauty regimen and how you're aging in reverse. And she seems to really resent. She had talked nothing about your talents as an actor, nothing about you as a human being, just wanted to talk about.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  My beauty regimen?

• 9:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, just what, what are you doing?

• 9:15Speaker 02

  It's basically a bottle of wine. Uh, and.

• 9:18Josh Horowitz?

  That's so rude.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  It's genetics, damn you. It's, um, yeah. Uh. Yeah, I don't know. I, uh, I, um, I don't do anything. I don't do anything.

• 9:29Josh Horowitz?

  What?

• 9:30Speaker 02

  I don't do any, maybe some moisturizer? I don't know that I steal off my wife? That's very kind of him.

• 9:36Josh Horowitz?

  Um, is there constant contact with Lizzie or is it, is it a weekly text? What's the, what's the cadence of your?

• 9:42Speaker 02

  It's not. Our cadence is, is more monthly. If she's in town, um, you know, we'll go and get a, I'll go and get a dinner with her and her husband. We'll all go. Jennifer will and, um, and, uh, she's great company and she is. I always look forward to getting to work with her. Because she is so fastidious.

• 10:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  And I am. And timely. I love it. She's always on time.

• 10:17Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, is she?

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's, um, so, so many actors aren't. And she is, she's a good student. She's, she, she.

• 10:26Josh Horowitz?

  She's so.

• 10:26Speaker 02

  Prepared and I love it.

• 10:29Josh Horowitz?

  She seems, in my experience with her, also a bit of the neurotic, and I say this with love. Like, she seems like a little bit of just like, there's a lot going on up there. There's a lot.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot happening up there, but I find, I find, really, because I find it quite, um, self-possessed in that way.

• 10:47Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, well, you would know better.

• 10:48Speaker 02

  Um. Yeah. And, uh, and not somebody who catastrophizes or, or, or dramatizes things. I mean, um.

• 10:59Josh Horowitz?

  So you're the drama queen in the pair?

• 11:00Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  I don't, you know, I think I, both of us have been doing it long enough that I, I don't.

• 11:10Speaker 02

  I don't get nervous. Um, you know, I don't, I don't.

• 11:14Josh Horowitz?

  You know, it's gonna, it's gonna come out on the wash. It's gonna be fine.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  I guess my worry is, are we gonna get there in the end? But I don't, I don't feel anxious in front of a camera. And she doesn't seem to either. And, and, but I really, and I really mean this. Not only is she talented, she's also really prepared. And I, um.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  There are so many times you work with people and you're in the makeup trailer and you look down and you see the person learning their sides. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Their lines.

• 11:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  And I think.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  Wow. And then when you show up on set.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  You go to the, you know, the studio and then they come in and say to the director, I, I've had an idea. And I think, yeah, on the fucking golf cart, you haven't. I, it had some half baked idea and now we're gonna have to listen to it.

• 12:10Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  And I find that, um, a little irritating because I think it's what. The thing that has really been, I've noticed in, in my time as an actor is the thing that gets really squeezed is time.

• 12:26Josh Horowitz?

  That's all it's about.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  You know, when I made, um, a movie right at the beginning of my career called Gangster Number One. We had 12 weeks on an indie movie.

• 12:37Josh Horowitz?

  Wow. I remember because I was listening to our, our last podcast, which believe it or not was for Shelter, the film you directed.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 12:43Josh Horowitz?

  Wow. I know. And we've obviously talked since then, but not the podcast. And we talked about time in respect to that film. I believe you shot that in 21 days.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  21 days.

• 12:52Josh Horowitz?

  So think about that juxtaposition from where you started in the indie world.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. And, and the, it, when, when you squeeze time like that, you need to be prepared. You need to have, you know, there isn't.

• 13:06Josh Horowitz?

  There's not.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  There's not enough space to allow you to come in and figure it out on set.

• 13:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  On set.

• 13:12Josh Horowitz?

  I can't believe you called out Anthony Mackie like that.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Just, I mean, it's just. Anthony terribly well prepared.

• 13:19Josh Horowitz?

  Julian, he's got it. Come on. He's, he's got it down as he'll remind you.

• 13:29Speaker 00

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• 14:00Speaker 05

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• 14:33Josh Horowitz?

  Let's talk Amadeus. Congratulations.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you very much.

• 14:36Josh Horowitz?

  This is a new interpretation, of course. For those who don't know, I'm sure everybody does. The classic play inspired by real life events. Maybe real, maybe not. I believe Peter Schaffer was the playwright. I mean, that film adaptation made a major impact on me as a kid. Milos Forman.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  The last great Milos Forman movie, I think.

• 14:59Josh Horowitz?

  It's a, it's one of my top 20, I think, of all time.

• 15:02Speaker 02

  It's a fantastic movie.

• 15:03Josh Horowitz?

  Unbelievable. And Tom Hulse, F. Murray Abraham, you are now Cagliari. This is big shoes to fill. But look, the great works maybe don't demand, but they invite reinterpretation. Talk to me a little bit about the challenge and excitement of an iconic part like Cagliari.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  Well, you're right. It's an iconic role in the same way that Iago is an iconic role. And many people play Iago. So I didn't.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  I I'm never shy of looking at other people's work that have played roles. But I didn't need to because I've seen that movie so many times and it's such a brilliant

• 15:52Speaker 02

  performance by F Murray Abraham. But I it didn't ever give me pause in the same way because because because Hamlet.

• 16:05Josh Horowitz?

  Hamlet, Batman.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  It's like you. So I I didn't worry about that. What I worried about was are we going to do something different? A and one, it is not based on the film.

• 16:20Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  And the play is different and.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  And so that but but I I do feel that the the major difference, of course, is is five hours.

• 16:36Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you're talking about space before here it is.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  Right. And so you get to dig into both Mozart and Salieri's domestic life.

• 16:49Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  And I find that interesting and reason enough to to to look at it again and also the the play and the film to a certain extent, the play certainly is very much from the point of view of Salieri. Salieri talks to the audience in the play. And

• 17:16Speaker 02

  and this has is has Mozart on more equal footing in terms of who the the the show is about.

• 17:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  And I thought that was interesting because.

• 17:29Speaker 02

  And I think Will is a great person to play that role.

• 17:34Josh Horowitz?

  Because.

• 17:35Speaker 02

  Will Sharp.

• 17:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  Because

• 17:40Speaker 02

  he is a bit of a genius. And it's it's I think genius is quite hard to play. And I think it's hard to relate to.

• 17:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  And what I love about Salieri is he's so relatable. Because because he is a step away from genius and.

• 18:04Speaker 02

  And there are two sides of Salieri, right? There's the side of Salieri, there's the side of it, which is

• 18:12Speaker 02

  every office

• 18:15Speaker 02

  in the world has a Salieri who comes out of the, you know, the meeting, the bosses said, that new assistant is she's fantastic. I want her in every meeting.

• 18:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  And then he got the Salieri comes out of the office and goes, I don't know what you did to piss him off, but you know, come to me with your ideas first.

• 18:34Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  And you know, so there's that side. And then there's also this sort of broken little boy that I see in Salieri, who just can't believe that his dad has picked the other son.

• 18:51Josh Horowitz?

  Right. And all I want is to please you is to is to is to deliver this.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  Yes, it's a prodigal son's story to a certain degree and he is and he's he's broken by it. There's this amazing moment for um where Will and uh uh his his son has died and he's written a piece so beautiful for his his uh his wife to sing that she will be able to talk to their son in heaven again because God will listen. And it's it's a a truly astonishing piece of music. And Salieri sits there and he what he hears is

• 19:37Speaker 02

  God has chosen him.

• 19:38Josh Horowitz?

  Right. That's all he can hear.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  Can't. That's all he can hear.

• 19:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  He knows it to be true. And that's, you know, that's it's um I just I ju- I just feel that's so eminently relatable.

• 19:53Josh Horowitz?

  Where where are you at when it applies to your craft in terms of like God given ability versus the craft versus learning how to act like how much of it is innate? How much of it can be taught?

• 20:06Speaker 02

  It differs with I I think it really differs with different people. I mean, I feel like

• 20:15Speaker 02

  And it sort of doesn't matter is it's it's it's um the only thing you can control is preparation.

• 20:21Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 20:23Speaker 02

  You know, and um. And yes, I've seen people come in and. You know, some, you know, kid off the street come in, just be breathtaking and you're catching lightning in a bottle and. And it's extraordinary, but.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  I've equally seen a lot of unprepared people come in and not do that. So so I would I would, I I mean. I don't think one, you can't control whether the there, it's the same as I feel about when I. You know, was was auditioning is the. I can't control whether somebody more.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  Famous and therefore more bankable.

• 21:07Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  More better looking, more appropriate to the part, more talented can come in, but what I can control is. I will be the most prepared one.

• 21:17Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  And. And then when that actor drops out of that role at the last minute.

• 21:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  And they're like, who was that kid that came in and and knocked it out of the park?

• 21:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Who will make my job easier? Who came prepared and who came?

• 21:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, and and and it takes, I mean, it takes a lot to. Keep doing that as a young actor. When you're. Pretty certain you're not getting the job.

• 21:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  Because they're gonna go with whomever, of course they are. But um but to be the person when that can step into those shoes when that guy drops out because he gets a better gig.

• 21:57Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  That's um. That's that's real, and I don't know how I feel so bad like. I can't imagine what self tapes. I mean, I I'm so glad that wasn't my era. You know, my era was was you went into a room, you you.

• 22:19Josh Horowitz?

  You had a connection.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  You made a connection with them and and and made them and made them made them laugh, made them want to spend six weeks with you, whatever it is. And they're poised to get and you haven't even read the thing yet, you know?

• 22:33Josh Horowitz?

  What was the most life altering audition you can think of, whether you got the role or not? Like, is there one or two that jump out at you of like? That connection, meeting a filmmaker, being in the room, being energized by that experience?

• 22:46Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I mean, there there are there are a few things. I mean, I learnt an amazing lesson on my.

• 22:56Speaker 02

  I I auditioned, I didn't audition because Mel Gibson wouldn't let actors read. He just wanted to meet you. And at the end of it, he said, okay, you're in you're in Braveheart. And I went, I'm what? I'm in Braveheart? I went, yep, you're in Braveheart. And um.

• 23:15Josh Horowitz?

  That's years.

• 23:15Speaker 02

  As you probably noticed, I'm not in Braveheart.

• 23:17Josh Horowitz?

  That's years before Night's Tale. That's like five or six years prior.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  Yes, I was still at drama school and he and what what it taught me a really good lesson, which is that. The biggest star in the world, as he was then really, and the director of the film and the producer of the film. Can say you're in a movie and still not be in a movie.

• 23:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  So that was a really good lesson and.

• 23:44Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, what was the role? Was it?

• 23:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:48Josh Horowitz?

  All right.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Prince.

• 23:52Josh Horowitz?

  Did that affect your relationship to watching that movie for for a while?

• 23:55Speaker 02

  No, I mean, it was very different in the script, but um.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  Very different character in the script. Um, but no, that so that there was that and there was also Brian Helgeland. Who stood by me and stood by me. It wasn't wasn't for Night's Tale. It was a film before that. And he um.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  He auditioned me, he saw a tape that I had done, you know, for the casting director. And then he flew to London and he, you know, did a proper audition and the studio went, we don't get it. And he did it again and they went, we don't get it. And then he refused to make the movie and I was like, Brian, don't.

• 24:41Josh Horowitz?

  Don't die on the self for me.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Don't do that for me. Like, and he went, it's not for you. And he's right, it was probably quite off the ground, I think. He went, if I fold on you, I'm gonna fold on everything.

• 24:53Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  And then he wrote A Night's Tale with a part in it for me. And I, um, and then he called me in to audition. I auditioned, the studio went, we don't get it. And then he flew me back, he had me stay, he flew, must have flown me three times to Los Angeles. And let me stay in his house and

• 25:16Speaker 02

  and finally, he was like, well, then I'm not gonna make the movie. Cause they just didn't get it and he, and they, because he had had previous, you know, for for absolutely saying, no, I'm not, no, not gonna make the film. And they had a film with a young Heath Ledger star and then, and they went, all right, let's, we'll let him have it.

• 25:35Josh Horowitz?

  Rest is history. That's 25 years ago and Night's Tale came out.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  That's all right. Wow. And see, that, that, that, that taught me another lesson, that there are good people who will stand by you and and then, um, I think prior to that was Gangsta Number One.

• 25:54Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  And, um,

• 25:56Josh Horowitz?

  Which was really the first big moment for you as a

• 25:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, sort of, yeah, and it sort of became, it was a calling card for me. I don't, not sure lots of people saw it, but I think filmmakers saw it.

• 26:06Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, and I still love that movie.

• 26:11Josh Horowitz?

  You know, there's no actor arguably that comes up more, there are two actors that come up on this podcast constantly. It's Philip Seymour Hoffman and it's Heath, it's Heath Ledger. The impact Heath has had on your contemporaries, but also this generation that has come since is remarkable.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:28Josh Horowitz?

  The way he carried himself, the choices he made, his actual performances.

• 26:33Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, what do you think his legacy is as a performer?

• 26:42Speaker 02

  I don't know, I, I, it's, it's a

• 26:47Speaker 02

  he is I spend so, I, whenever I think about him

• 26:54Speaker 02

  I, I find myself sort of overwhelmed with um sadness when I have to sort of remember, I have to remember that he's dead.

• 27:08Speaker 02

  He was an incredibly creative force and I find myself mourning the things that he didn't make, not just as an actor, he was just an incredibly creative human being. And and I've said this before, I'm so

• 27:30Speaker 02

  I think these sort of narratives and, and almost an industry gets built around

• 27:39Speaker 02

  around the narrative of him as a um

• 27:42Josh Horowitz?

  Like a tortured genius kind of

• 27:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. It just wasn't like that.

• 27:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  He was just shining and, and when you were with him, it was like having the sun on you, you, you couldn't, he was, and he was just so full of life and joy. You know?

• 27:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I only

• 27:58Speaker 02

  And, and the kid couldn't sleep and that's it.

• 28:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  That's the story.

• 28:03Josh Horowitz?

  Heartbreak, I can't even, I can't even.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  A, a fantastic actor.

• 28:08Josh Horowitz?

  Do you remember seeing him in, in The Dark Knight? That must have been in your mind to see your friend in that context and what he did without.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, uh, you know, it was heartbreaking.

• 28:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Um, jumping ahead, I'm sorry for bringing it down, but it was a good, good remembrance. More Happy Say Confused coming up.

• 28:31Speaker 00

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• 29:34Josh Horowitz?

  Did we ever come at all close to the Master and Commander sequel? It was talked about for so many years. Was it just you guys being asked by people like me? Or was there real talk at some point?

• 29:43Speaker 02

  No, I think there was real talk at some point. And I think that Russell had a really good idea and the problem with that movie is that it didn't make enough money for people.

• 30:01Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  You know?

• 30:01Josh Horowitz?

  It did well.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  It made its money back and it made some money, but it just wasn't enough. And I think that's a shame because I think there was there was, you know, real life in that as a yeah, as a movie, we could have some characters, we could have kept making movies and now.

• 30:24Josh Horowitz?

  Speaking of Russell, is this true? I forgot this. And not to bring it down again, but like, were you cast in Les Mis? Were you going to play the Javert part in Les Mis, the film?

• 30:36Speaker 02

  No, I read for it.

• 30:39Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, was that it? You weren't actually like?

• 30:41Speaker 02

  No.

• 30:42Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Because you've never done the movie musical thing, that's.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  I haven't, I haven't, I haven't done that. And I love to sing.

• 30:53Josh Horowitz?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 30:55Josh Horowitz?

  Was that the closest you came to like a major musical like that?

• 30:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so.

• 31:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. I guess people don't see me that way.

• 31:04Josh Horowitz?

  Well, come on, people. It's not too late. Mamma Mia 3 is just sitting right there for you.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  Mamma Mia 3.

• 31:10Josh Horowitz?

  How's your abba?

• 31:12Speaker 02

  You know, my abba's great. Very much for asking.

• 31:15Josh Horowitz?

  Sounds like a medical bullshit.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:17Josh Horowitz?

  How's your abba doing?

• 31:18Speaker 02

  Oh, it's fine. A little bloated.

• 31:22Josh Horowitz?

  Who do we credit? We know I can credit Favreau for casting you as Jarvis way back when. Who do we credit with the leap to vision? Was that a Joss idea?

• 31:32Speaker 02

  That was Joss, yeah. Yeah.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  Actually, that's a pretty great

• 31:42Speaker 02

  story, because I'd made a movie called Priest, and it tanked. And

• 31:58Speaker 02

  because it was supposed, well, I mean, there may be many reasons why Priest tanked, but just one of them was that it was supposed to come out in January, and they had a problem with Green Lantern, and they realized they would lose less money if they put Green Lantern in our spot, and us in Green Lantern's spot, and then we came out between Thor and something else. You know, a movie, it was like being in a Prius crushed by two

• 32:28Josh Horowitz?

  SUVs.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  SUVs, and we're like, wait, this is not the right time for this, you know, whatever it was, 25 million dollar vampire movie.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  And so that happened, and you know, you're

• 32:48Speaker 02

  sitting there, you know, unable to get hired, because you've been in this film that's tanked. And then

• 32:57Speaker 02

  when Joss Whedon asked me to do it, I found out that when he talked it through with Kevin and co., they were like, yeah, I mean, he's so fun, and you know, they really enjoyed working with him, but can he play a superhero? And they showed him Priest. And so this movie that I thought, you know, had

• 33:18Josh Horowitz?

  Was really your career, but it actually was your test tape.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  Exactly. And life is curly, and you just don't know what, you know.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  What what's coming down the Pike?

• 33:32Josh Horowitz?

  I have this vague memory, correct me if I'm wrong, because I've been interviewing you.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  Pike?

• 33:36Josh Horowitz?

  Pike, pipe, something with a P.

• 33:38Speaker 02

  Must be a pipe.

• 33:39Josh Horowitz?

  Um, way back when, because I probably interviewed you for Priest and Legion and those films. And I, and I, and that was around you when you were doing the Jarvis voice. And I feel like you told me you hadn't even watched the Iron Man films at that time. Is that true? Like by the time before you actually played Vision?

• 33:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that, um, it was, I think that I don't watch a lot of my movies.

• 34:00Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  So I've never seen, I've never seen Dogville. Uh, you know, I've never, um, there are a lot of movies that, um, so yeah, that was nothing to do with. I have subsequently.

• 34:11Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  Watched them all because, you know, when I was gonna play Vision, it became, um, it became, um, more, more important for me research wise than.

• 34:21Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  Well.

• 34:22Josh Horowitz?

  Lizzie said that you were basically the early conspirator to kind of like bring that relationship to the fore. When you started to do stuff on screen, that you were basically like, if we build something in, in the subtext here, there might be something for us.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  Yes, well, I, I mean, also Joss was really helpful in there.

• 34:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:41Speaker 02

  You know, um, he wanted, but, but it was, it was just, just begun in, in looks. And, and I think that, um,

• 34:55Speaker 02

  I thought it would be a pretty helpful and fruitful vein for us. Because there's nothing else like that in, in those films, you know, and it's, um, it's, it's a really, um, it's, it's a great, it's great to have your own lane.

• 35:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  You know?

• 35:19Josh Horowitz?

  Is it true? How true is it that the, your death, one of a couple deaths, your death at the end of Infinity War was kind of built on the spot?

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Was totally real?

• 35:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So I don't understand, I mean, I kind of do, knowing what I do about Marvel, but, but like, what was on the page? What did they say to you? How was it developed?

• 35:38Speaker 02

  Um, I can't remember what was on the page now from what we made up, but, um, it was the, you know, the Russos were like, so, um.

• 35:52Speaker 02

  Just, uh, just, I don't know, just improvise this bit and I went, wait, what? And, and, and, and, uh, you know, we, we were both really terrified. I went, improvise being a robot and having a stone removed from my head.

• 36:09Josh Horowitz?

  Like, keep that in drum school.

• 36:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do, do, yeah, do that. Just do some, just say some stuff. All right. So we, we, uh.

• 36:18Josh Horowitz?

  So what I see on the screen there, those lines are essentially.

• 36:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, I think there were lines there. I just, I'm, I'm sure there were lines there, but definitely, um, I think there was like one line and like, I, you know, um, yeah, but I don't think all of that, like, uh, we're out of time and all of, all of that stuff was on the page.

• 36:43Josh Horowitz?

  So what's the sense of satisfaction? I get, talk about having some space. You had some space at a giant movie to create something and then to sit in a theater, that premiere, to see that kind of scene realized and see it work in that way must be.

• 36:58Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah. I mean, I,

• 37:03Speaker 02

  a relief.

• 37:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:05Speaker 02

  Really. Because, because I just, I mean, I think both she and I finished it. You know, you have to imagine it without the effects.

• 37:15Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:15Speaker 02

  And without the score, you know? And she's doing her witchy stuff and I'm going, I, I, I'm there sort of beatifically dying with a.

• 37:28Josh Horowitz?

  Which must look really cool.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  And there's just silence.

• 37:34Josh Horowitz?

  Are we cut? Are we wrapped?

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then we finished and, and she looked at me and I looked at her. I was like,

• 37:43Speaker 02

  I, I just, I don't know.

• 37:44Josh Horowitz?

  But when I, what? When I, when I interviewed Harrison Ford, when he was Red Hulk in the last Captain America movie, I asked him like, how do you silence the part of your brain that tells you you're like a crazy person on set? And he said, that's what the money is for, basically.

• 37:57Speaker 02

  That's funny. Yeah, I I mean, yeah, I mean, I remember just Sweden. I I was I was on my knees firing a a blast from my forehead or something. It's in the first film. And he was he was like, so how did it? How do you feel? You good? And I went, how does it feel? I what what do you I I have no, does it look cool? Like, I'm no, I get, I'm pretending to fire a laser beam out of my forehead. I I have no idea how it feels. It feels a bit silly, but then, you know, put a laser beam on there. That's pretty cool.

• 38:36Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, my God. I hope you're not sick of talking about this because it's such an important moment to so many is the is the line in WandaVision, which has become this iconic piece of pop culture. Forget comic books. It's just it's so meaningful to so many people. What is grief if not love persevering? And I've know know you've told the story a bit, but for those who don't know, not quite improvised, but built like.

• 38:57Speaker 02

  Oh, it's the opposite of improvised. I mean, I I think that that that that line was built by so many people.

• 39:04Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 39:04Speaker 02

  And it kept being close. And I was like, gosh, it's just missing.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  It's missing something and and they kept going back and and then it was Jack's assistant came in with them. The coffees and she went persevering and we all went.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 39:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  And and, yeah, it's been it's the the lines ha ha have had a life of its own. I have to say.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  You know, I never see actors thank editors, and they should. Um, as somebody who has directed and edited a movie, let me assure you, actors absolutely should be thanking their editors when they accept awards. Thank you for cutting my shit bits out. But one of the things that is amazing about that moment is it's not played on me.

• 39:59Josh Horowitz?

  Right, it's on her.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  It's played on her.

• 40:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  Um. Uh, and I think that's that's.

• 40:09Speaker 02

  Look, it's a great line, but I think that what makes it really moving is seeing it land with her. And uh.

• 40:20Josh Horowitz?

  That's a lesson to an actor too, like a young actor, maybe with an ego be like, oh, why didn't they use me? Why didn't they like?

• 40:25Speaker 02

  I'm whenever somebody has cut me out of anything, I'm convinced it was because I was being bad and I've been saved. I, I, I, and I really mean that.

• 40:35Speaker 02

  So I, I've never ever had that feeling. Um, I, um, I do love that line though, and I am, you know, when you go around to the conventions or whatever, that the, the real meaning that it had for, for people, I can't tell you the number of people that come up. I've seen people with tattoos of it and, and it's, um.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  It's a, it's a lovely thought, it's very well wrought line.

• 41:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  Uh, and um, it's very little to do with. Me and I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm, I mean it, I mean, it's just a very well written line. And then the, the shot is on her, she's doing all the acting, it's, you know, so I get all the credit.

• 41:23Josh Horowitz?

  WandaVision was a huge swing and it connected. We're going to be talking soon more about Vision Quest, but to tease it a little bit.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:31Josh Horowitz?

  Terry Mathaus, I was telling you before, I'm a big fan. He's the showrunner this time around. Um, in relation to WandaVision, how big a swing is this one you find?

• 41:39Speaker 02

  Huge, yeah, huge. Um, uh, it manages to feel

• 41:50Speaker 02

  very much like it's a, it's, it's somehow a part, a part of that world of those, um, you know, a, a, an end to a trilogy of sorts.

• 42:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Um, uh, but whilst also being very much its own thing.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  And it is, um.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  Just really good. I'm really proud of it. I'm I've been we've been in an editorial for a long while now and um

• 42:23Speaker 02

  I keep seeing cuts of it that just are getting better and better and then as all the um uh the effects get um placed in um

• 42:35Speaker 02

  and really, yeah, it's it's funny, it's moving and it's super exciting and uh he did it. He did a grand job.

• 42:45Josh Horowitz?

  And we get we get Spader back in the mix. It's been a long

• 42:47Speaker 02

  We got some Spader back in, yeah. And he is delicious.

• 42:52Josh Horowitz?

  Of course he is. He's Spader. He is one of one.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  He is so, he's so funny in this. It's so delicious to watch him and and we loved working together. I I I loved it so much.

• 43:06Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, what form of Ultron? Am I seeing James Spader's face this time? Am I seeing a physical manifestation of Ultron?

• 43:14Speaker 02

  I think that would be beyond my pay grades to tell you.

• 43:20Josh Horowitz?

  But worth sticking around for.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  Worth sticking around for and um

• 43:29Speaker 02

  and it's, you know, it's largely a story.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  The story largely revolves around that relationship and it's it's it's it's it's real fun. It's fun stuff.

• 43:44Josh Horowitz?

  I'm very, very excited. Um and last thing on the moral front, you you have teased that if not Doomsday, perhaps Secret Wars might be coming for for you.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  I I think so. I mean, I think that you um

• 43:59Speaker 02

  you know, as much as, um, touch wood, as much, you know, keeps the kids in private school, um as much as

• 44:10Speaker 02

  You know, anything going on at Marvel, no, as much as

• 44:16Speaker 02

  or they or they change their mind, or they, you know, or, you know, you just, you just, you really do never know. I mean, it's true that you never know, by the way. I mean, when, when, when Wheel died,

• 44:32Speaker 02

  we found out that day.

• 44:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Infinity, where when you were?

• 44:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, they took us into a, into, into like a trailer with, with, with Previs. And everybody was sitting watching the screen going, oh, I, I die. No, nobody knew. We didn't know.

• 44:49Josh Horowitz?

  Is there a parting gift, like a goodie bag they walk, that you walk out of the tent with?

• 44:52Speaker 02

  Just get out of here, kid.

• 44:54Josh Horowitz?

  Thanks for your time.

• 44:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. No, so, no, it was, it was, it was, uh, so you really don't know. They really do keep this stuff very secret.

• 45:03Josh Horowitz?

  Right. So it's more of kind of like a hold this space potentially, we think. And script pages will come when they come.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 45:11Josh Horowitz?

  Right. I got you. What's up with the Harry Potter thing? Am I going to see you as Voldemort? Is there truth to this rumor?

• 45:17Speaker 02

  I've heard nothing about that through any official channels at all. No, that's just a rumor.

• 45:22Josh Horowitz?

  These are just rumors. You haven't heard from David Hayman, the whole, any of them from, okay.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  No, I mean, I think it's amazing.

• 45:30Speaker 02

  You know, I like, I like the IP versus what people say. Yeah. Um, uh, but, uh,

• 45:40Speaker 02

  yeah, I don't know. And maybe that's enough prosthetics for me in my life. No, it's been, it's been a lot.

• 45:50Josh Horowitz?

  Again, the skin is glowing. Maybe, maybe it's good for you.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  Maybe that's what it is.

• 45:53Josh Horowitz?

  Maybe that's the secret.

• 45:55Speaker 02

  By by a little garnish that they've put on my face.

• 45:59Josh Horowitz?

  Just be vision. Um, so you're not, you're, you're ambivalent about losing your nose for the sake of a job the next 10 years.

• 46:06Speaker 02

  I'm sure that'll be AI now, right? And I don't know. Um, yeah.

• 46:11Josh Horowitz?

  Have you thought about if that, if that phone call comes in, like, how seriously to take it and what, what your take could potentially?

• 46:18Speaker 02

  No, no, not yet. I haven't, uh, I mean, because it's literally a rumor. And I think that that

• 46:28Speaker 02

  That stuff is how you go mad as an actor.

• 46:31Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right. If you followed every

• 46:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:33Josh Horowitz?

  internet Reddit rabbit hole.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  Oh my god, I'm gonna be James Bond.

• 46:38Josh Horowitz?

  Speaking, why has the James Bond conversation never really happened for you? It feels like you've never had been in that list. You should have been. Was it timing? Was it?

• 46:48Speaker 02

  Uh, no, I, no, no, no, no.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  I, I don't, I don't, I don't know. I don't think anybody ever says no to Bond.

• 47:00Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  So, you know, they find out before even starting cut those conversations, how interested you are in those, that's sort of a franchise, you know? So I don't, I don't know that you ever get to

• 47:21Speaker 02

  if they're talking about you, it's because

• 47:23Josh Horowitz?

  They want you or

• 47:25Speaker 02

  And you've said, I would be interested. You know what I mean?

• 47:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right. One thing I want to tease also, so besides Vision Quest, I'm very excited. You worked with Tom Ford, who does not direct very often.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:36Josh Horowitz?

  This is just, I believe, his third film.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:37Josh Horowitz?

  And I think his first two have been exceptional.

• 47:39Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 47:40Josh Horowitz?

  How was the experience on the new Tom Ford film?

• 47:42Speaker 02

  I really adore him. Yeah, he's, uh, he

• 47:51Speaker 02

  he's also delicious, you know?

• 47:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:54Speaker 02

  He's so naughty.

• 47:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  So funny. So it's a, yeah, he's like, uh, he's, he's got a similar deliciousness that Jane Spader has, where Jane Spader will say the absolute worst thing that he can to make me laugh, and I love it.

• 48:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  And so, yeah, it was a really

• 48:16Speaker 02

  it was really, um, fun to go and hang out with him in, in, in Rome and

• 48:21Josh Horowitz?

  Hell of a cast.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  It's what he does now. His, is, he doesn't have anything to do with the, his Tom Ford business and he wants to make movies and, and, and so he should because he's really very good at them.

• 48:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  And he's so relaxed on set and so easy to work for and so excited and, um,

• 48:48Speaker 02

  And and just hilarious. Yeah.

• 48:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, the smartest thing I I I clocked it after I interviewed him a couple of times for the last film is like every time I would interview him, he would compliment me on how I was dressed. And then I would hear him say to everybody, I'm like, oh, I saw Tom Ford knows knows what to say. And it comes from Tom Ford.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  That's clever.

• 49:08Josh Horowitz?

  All right, we're gonna end with this, Paul. The Happy Second fuse profoundly random questions for you.

• 49:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 49:12Josh Horowitz?

  You ready? Uh, you kind of alluded to this already, but let's do it. Dogs or cats?

• 49:17Speaker 02

  Uh, both.

• 49:19Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. What do you collect?

• 49:22Speaker 02

  Guitars.

• 49:24Josh Horowitz?

  Is it more than what was the other thing that Jennifer is not fond of?

• 49:28Speaker 02

  Uh, my cameras.

• 49:28Josh Horowitz?

  Cameras.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  There's that too, yeah. Yeah, um. I have too many guitars and I give guitars away. In fact, I was at a friend's house. Um, the other month and I was playing their guitar and I went. God, I I love this guitar. I should get a Jumbo Gibson. He went, this was your Jumbo Gibson. He gave it to me. And I went, it was? So I I I have a habit of

• 49:58Speaker 02

  buying guitars, realizing I have too many guitars and then giving them away. And then and then get getting jealous when I play it like, God, this is such a good guitar. Where did you get this guitar? Yeah.

• 50:09Josh Horowitz?

  So if there's a guitar in New York City, it's probably been been owned by Paul Bettany at some point.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  That's right. Um, yeah, guitars and cameras.

• 50:15Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 50:16Speaker 02

  Favorite. Well, not cameras, uh, lenses.

• 50:19Josh Horowitz?

  What's your favorite video game of all time?

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Um, I don't. I don't really play video games.

• 50:26Josh Horowitz?

  Never as a kid even? You weren't like just old school?

• 50:29Speaker 02

  No.

• 50:29Josh Horowitz?

  Miss Pac-Man, nothing?

• 50:30Speaker 02

  No.

• 50:31Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 50:31Speaker 02

  Didn't didn't do do that stuff.

• 50:34Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Uh, more importantly, the Dakota Johnson memorial question she asked me, I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 50:43Speaker 02

  Fuck in the hell, let's see.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  I think a bee in the butt.

• 50:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 50:50Josh Horowitz?

  I think that's medically the way to go.

• 50:52Speaker 02

  I think. Yeah, I think I'm going butt bee.

• 50:56Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, we'll see to that after the taping.

• 50:58Speaker 02

  Great, thank you. How do you know there's not one there?

• 51:03Josh Horowitz?

  Needs a friend. Um, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 51:07Speaker 02

  Oh, it's my uh, son and his girlfriend.

• 51:13Josh Horowitz?

  Um, last actor you were mistaken for.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 51:21Josh Horowitz?

  Does it ever happen nowadays?

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Doesn't really ha- happen nowadays. I, I, I've, I have it back, it back in the day. I have signed before, you know.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  I just, I guess before people had cell phones the whole time, you know.

• 51:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Google.

• 51:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I got mistaken. Somebody clearly recognized me as, you know, knew I was sort of famous, but not, and they were like Jude, Jude. And so I signed for Jude Law.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  Uh, there are worse people to be. Oh, no, he's super handsome. Yeah.

• 52:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was terribly flattered, I think. Um, yeah, but that not, not, not really.

• 52:09Josh Horowitz?

  Your height is a differentiating point. You've got, got the height over most of your contemporaries. They.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  I tell you who does uh, mistake me for someone else. That's Don Cheadle. Um, Don Cheadle and I were laughing. I find him so funny.

• 52:27Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yes.

• 52:28Speaker 02

  So funny.

• 52:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  And I, we were shooting, uh, um,

• 52:36Speaker 02

  maybe it was Infinity War. And I was like, oh, Don, I hate that this is coming to an end. You know, and one day I just really liked, you know, we should make a movie together. And he went,

• 52:48Speaker 02

  we are making a movie. The other one. No, another one, you know, outside the Marvel world. He went, we, we did. I, I cast you in my movie about Miles Davis. I went, that, that's Ewan McGregor. He went, you're not Ewan McGregor? It's a great joke.

• 53:06Speaker 02

  What a great joke.

• 53:07Josh Horowitz?

  It's good. What's the worst that a director has ever given you?

• 53:12Speaker 02

  Um.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't know about me, but I remember I being on set when a director, it was his first film.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  And he said to the actress who I was playing opposite, uh, who will remain nameless. He went, you're, um, God, I just, I really, I really want you to be uh, good in this and you're being bad.

• 53:44Josh Horowitz?

  No, no.

• 53:45Speaker 02

  And I went, well, that's lunch, everybody. Then spent an hour putting this poor woman back together, like her ego back together. Um, so yeah, that was, uh, that was unhelpful.

• 53:57Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, how's he doing now? How's she doing now? Are they both in the business?

• 54:00Speaker 02

  Yes, both still in the business and both very good, actually.

• 54:05Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. Uh, and in the spirit of happy second fuse, who's an actor who always makes you happy?

• 54:11Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. That's a great question. Oh.

• 54:19Speaker 02

  Ryan Gosling.

• 54:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, come on.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  My God, he's funny.

• 54:24Josh Horowitz?

  Project Hail Mary. I mean, everything. I thought it was great.

• 54:27Speaker 02

  I haven't seen that yet. Yes, but no, he just, he also just makes me happy when I come across him being interviewed in, uh, uh, he's just so funny. The, do you know the story about he did on Graham Norton about him? Him uh, being massaged by this guy and he was like, and he's trying to put his foot and his hand together behind his back. And then he went and he had this really, uh, hairy belly and his belly went in my mouth. And you know, when you, there's something in your mouth and your tongue tries to figure out what it is? And it's just the funniest story. It's really great, self-deprecating.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  And, and I love his humor. He really makes me laugh.

• 55:14Josh Horowitz?

  What's a movie that makes you sad?

• 55:19Speaker 02

  A movie that makes me sad. Oh. Well.

• 55:27Speaker 02

  Does it make me sad?

• 55:33Speaker 02

  I feel like

• 55:38Speaker 02

  the deer hunter makes me sad, but not just in the way that I feel

• 55:47Speaker 02

  the courage of having, I don't know, 50 minutes of a Polish wedding at the top of your your film and

• 55:58Speaker 02

  and the real the truth of how engaged that makes you

• 56:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  with the rest of the film.

• 56:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yes, you spend the time, you invested that group of men and

• 56:09Speaker 02

  and um and we don't do that anymore.

• 56:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, we don't have the patience. It's just what's the next set piece? What's the next?

• 56:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's a classic. And finally, a food that makes you confused.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, this is easy.

• 56:25Speaker 02

  Uh, peanut butter and jelly. Like, what are you all doing, right? What what what's what's going on in your head that that's a good idea?

• 56:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  Um, and I feel the same way about bacon near pancakes with maple syrup. What are you? What is going on for? I've lived here for 23 years.

• 56:45Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 56:46Speaker 02

  There are a lot of puzzling things about. There are a lot of amazing things about America. I am an American. But what in God's name are you doing with peanut butter and jelly and and and maple syrup and bacon?

• 57:02Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 57:03Speaker 02

  It's just not, it's just not okay.

• 57:04Josh Horowitz?

  So the issues we're having, maybe politically, forget it, what's really bringing this country down?

• 57:11Speaker 02

  First Iran and now this.

• 57:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Still the iceberg.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:17Josh Horowitz?

  Um, great Paul, a great hot takes from Paul Bettany. Thank you, sir.

• 57:21Speaker 02

  Thanks for pulling that up.

• 57:23Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, coming full circle, let's remind folks, uh, Amadeus, as always, great piece of work. Five parts on Starz beginning May 8th. Uh, you and the exceptionally talented Will Sharp, check it out. You kill it as always.

• 57:35Speaker 02

  Really, it's it's really, it's a really good one.

• 57:38Josh Horowitz?

  It's a good one. Uh, the UK beat us to it, but we're catching up here in the States.

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Excellent.

• 57:42Josh Horowitz?

  Um, thank you, Paul. Thanks for stopping by as always. It's good to see you, man.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  Lovely to see you.

• 57:47Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, as promised, it is time for a little bonus material and happy, sick and pused and I can't think of a better person to have than my longtime friend. He's not a neighbor anymore sadly, but he is Benjamin Wagner. He's the director. He is the subject to a degree of his new film, Friends and Neighbors. Benjamin, welcome to the podcast.

• 58:07Speaker 06

  Ah, it's good to see you. Thanks, man. Thank you for doing it. Thanks for having me.

• 58:10Josh Horowitz?

  Of course. Of course. Congratulations on the film. Um, we should remind folks at the start. We'll remind them later. Uh, I believe as we tape this, as you guys are watching or listening, uh, Friends and Neighbors is going to be available on VOD, I think, May 15th.

• 58:23Speaker 06

  Correct. Exactly right. That's right. Apple, Amazon, etc. Yep.

• 58:26Josh Horowitz?

  And streaming right now on PBS app. So lots of ways to see this. Uh, congratulations. This has been a long road, I know, and an important subject. Um, give me, give me, give me the elevator pitch. This is a, this is a film that deals with chronic stress, your own, and is a prism through which you're looking at our collective chronic stress, I would gather. So what do you say to folks that this film's about?

• 58:48Speaker 06

  Um, of course. Listen, man, I'm not good at elevator pitches. The long story short is, um, I was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress, uh, at sort of in the height of COVID. And I was like, what are you talking about? I'm not a soldier or a cop. It didn't register. And then the guy explained a little bit of it to me in terms of these things called adverse childhood experiences and what trauma was and what chronic stress is and complex trauma. And like immediately, I saw it happening all around me. Like, like, you know, culture was slash is, um, kind of going bananas, you know? Um, people are acting out all over the place. I saw that the me story was a we story, you know? Um, reportage of anxiety

• 59:32Speaker 06

  and depression, um, like in the, in the 40 percentile, like, you know, liquor stores booming in COVID and people acting out on airplanes and shootings and all kinds of stuff that we're seeing every day in the news and in our algorithms. So I immediately saw the me was a we. And you know, you know, my first film's Mr. Rogers and Me. And so Fred's like a mentor, a neighbor, a real neighbor. And so I, you know, I knew enough about Fred to think, oh, this is a way in for a zillion reasons, which we can talk about, but not the least of which is Fred always told us to look for the helpers. And I, in this moment of duress, personal duress, I said to myself, I'm gonna go look for the helpers. I'm gonna go find the people who can explain this to me and can, who can help me understand

• 1:00:15Speaker 06

  what I can do about it with myself and what we can do about it as a culture.

• 1:00:19Josh Horowitz?

  So, I mean, like you're, you're, you're

• 1:00:21Speaker 06

  It was a long elevator ride.

• 1:00:22Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, it's a good one. But I mean, you're, you're, you know, you're wearing a lot of hats and something like this. Forget for a second, like, the filmmaking of it and kind of being front and center, but, you know, you've dealt with these issues. Obviously, these are issues that are ongoing. So like, I guess my question is, does making a film about PTSD and chronic stress help your own PTSD and chronic stress?

• 1:00:44Speaker 06

  Yes. Well, whether the making of it helped is tough to tell, right? Because I'll never know. I did it really concurrently. You know, I'm, I've, I've lived my life kind of in public for a couple of decades in a small way, right? I was one of those bloggers back in the day. You know, I've had a podcast from Down Again. I'm a singer songwriter. You know, my first movie is Mr. Rogers and Me. Personal storytelling has always been native to me. Michael Moore's film was the, you know, Spike Lee, Kevin Smith, these guys all are, were, were sort of folks I looked up to.

• 1:01:23Speaker 06

  And so it just made sense to me to do it that way. It was my way through and in. I will tell you, to cut to the subtext of your question, I feel incredibly alive and awake in a way that I didn't know was possible. I didn't really know the type of duress I was in because I was like a frog in boiling water. You know, I lived in New York City for 25 years, working in some very stressful gigs. I was traveling the world for the Facebook Journalism Project. And until, you know, COVID, like, I think this is what was happening to a lot of us, when we got stopped in place, you could not run your feelings, right? And I had a lot of them. And a lot of them had been stuffed down for a lot of years. And so as a friend recently said,

• 1:02:07Speaker 06

  You can go over, you can try and go around, but the only really way to do it is to go through. I had to get present with it. And so, man, I, I feel terrific. I feel alive and awake. I mean, from a diagnostic standpoint, there are data points, you know, that are, that are used by psychologists and so forth to sort of assess the stuff. And all of my data is markedly improved. But more importantly, I can tell you, I feel radically present in my own life, which is like a pretty good thing to be.

• 1:02:35Josh Horowitz?

  I know the deep marcation moment kind of that set you on this, this latest path is August 2021, when you get diagnosed with PTSD. Is that, is that like a rude, I mean, you know, you know, you've been dealing with, with issues over the years, but like when you hear those words, what do you think?

• 1:02:51Speaker 06

  Well, my first thought was, what are you talking about? Cause it's like, and I think this is what's so useful. And one of the reasons why I did it, and I knew the me was a we. Is once you get this idea of like, oh, there's a physiology to stress, like we embody our stress, which sounded like I'm Gen X, man. That sounded pretty hippie to me, like I roll Big Sur stuff, you know? And as it ends up like, sometimes our most fundamental truths are kind of eye rolls because they're counter, sorry, capitalism, empire, patriarchy, things like that. And there's a, there are whole systems in place to keep us in these sort of norms. So, yeah, it was a rude awakening because I didn't really get it. But like, it didn't take me, I mean, it was so immediate because it was, it was all around us, man.

• 1:03:35Speaker 06

  And it still is, by the way, but I think we're back to this busyness of life that enables us to kind of just be like, I can't do that right now. And I've found it's, it's really worthy work. And as it ends up, is it hard? Yeah, of course it's hard. It's really tough to like reconcile with like, I don't know, like I kind of all kinds of garbage in my life. Most of us do.

• 1:03:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:58Speaker 06

  But it's really, uh, much less weight to carry once you again, go through it.

• 1:04:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:04:04Josh Horowitz?

  My, my, my sadly meta moment was watching this film last night and I was so stressed like that the last night anyway. I had just so much shit going on, so many like different stupid things. And I'm watching this and I'm like giving it my full attention. And then I'm like, oh my God, this is, this is, this is my life. This is all our lives. Take a breath. I mean, I don't have the tools that you've found, but it is, I think it will inspire folks to kind of look for whatever tools will hopefully.

• 1:04:32Speaker 06

  Well, I hope so. And, and listen, I think it's important to point out that I made a choice to take the time to find the tools.

• 1:04:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:39Speaker 06

  And I decided to take, I like really made a conscious effort. And I also have a certain amount of privilege that enabled me to do so just by the color of my skin, sort of my station. And I think that's important to, to acknowledge. But, but the basic fundamental tools of healing, if you will, or of just becoming more present in your life is available to everybody. And you know, because I don't want to spoil it, but like, there's a very fundamental thing called the breath. And like, a lot of us, when I was a kid, my mom would say, well, take a deep breath, honey, to calm me down. Well, ends up taking that deep breath in actually activates us, right? That actually gives us energy. It's the exhale that tells your body that you're safe because

• 1:05:20Speaker 06

  you can't exhale if you're trying to outrun a saber tooth tiger or catch the seven train, right?

• 1:05:25Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right.

• 1:05:26Speaker 06

  Or a cab, or what have you, or someone's yelling at you. So that exhale is like a gateway. And again, I appreciate how this sounds, man. We have known each other a long time. But like, imagine like running a news meeting with a couple of deep breaths before you start the news meeting, you know, or, or before you step on stage with Stan Tucci, you know, and, and perhaps you do that, but it's very useful and it's a great gateway just to enter the space of like, I gotta get back in my skin. Because man, we are in our, in our devices. We are in the chaos around us. We're in these screens and they're awesome for doing this sort of thing. But they're not great for the sort of being in relationship with other humans and being in relationship with ourselves.

• 1:06:08Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I should mention, people can probably tell by the nature of our conversation, we do have a long history. We've known each other for basically 20 years.

• 1:06:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:06:14Josh Horowitz?

  Instrumental in the beginning of my, of this career, whatever this is, of getting to MTV, where you were basically hired me. You and a great guy named like Michael Alex. But I'm curious, like, that was a high pressure media job. You went on to other high pressure media jobs, including at Facebook.

• 1:06:31Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:06:32Josh Horowitz?

  Is it, you don't tie. The stresses and the PTSD to those jobs. I feel like it would have come out in other forms, in other ways. Don't you think? I mean,

• 1:06:42Speaker 06

  Those are great. That's a great question. I mean, the answer is yes and. There's a body of research and a line of logic that says, my nervous system, based on the adverse childhood experiences I had as a kid. We moved, you know, seven times before I was seven. My parents were never, they never really got along. They never really settled into the marriage. It was a very acrimonious divorce. There was violence. We experienced violence. There was violence between my parents. Then I moved 1,000 miles away from my father. So I'm kind of fatherless from nine to now. And then I get my jaw broken, which is kind of the icing. You know, I'm assaulted in a parking lot, which as you now know, which

• 1:07:24Speaker 06

  is kind of the icing on the cake. So those are called adverse childhood experiences. And a certain number of those predispose you to certain outcomes. It was a great bit of research by a Dr. Falletti in the late 90s, early aughts. Why would I know this? Right? Until you get this kind of diagnosis, I would say a lot of folks don't know this sort of thing. So that's the foundation that makes me sort of hypervigilant, high achievement oriented, high energy, all the things that can be a tremendous advantage when you're trying to run a massive podcasting empire or run MTV News, right? But then you have a tendency to sort of stay in that environment and you don't, I didn't have any way to come down, except like, oh, we need to have a celebration for the team. Let's go out and have drinks, right? Or I'm going to go home after a wild day, about what day where I'm

• 1:08:09Speaker 06

  wound up, and I'm going to drink. So the coping mechanisms weren't terrifically healthy. Then I go to Facebook. I start traveling. I go through this really high stress thing, front page news around a product we were working on. Then I start traveling the world. Then COVID. So you really begin to see like, oh, well, that adds up. Like, and especially if you have, you're not, you don't know what to do with it. And you can't talk about it because we don't talk about this stuff for the most part. We're pretty good friends. I've told you a lot of stuff and I didn't know the degree to which this stuff was, you know, acting on me. And I was having heart palpitations. I wasn't sleeping. You know, it was really having an effect on how I was showing up in my own life. And again, once I learned this stuff, I was like, oh, this is like everybody. It's like almost everybody.

• 1:08:54Josh Horowitz?

  So it's one thing to like lay your own soul bare in something like this and like and you you have like, you know, explored through all your art, your music, writing, you know, you've been, you know, you're open with yourself to.

• 1:09:05Speaker 06

  My soul has been bared before.

• 1:09:07Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, but I it's it's a beautiful thing. It's another thing to kind of like shine a light on the foibles of loved ones. And I know this has come up in your in the interviews you've done and it's it's an unusual subject, but I I do have to say I get why people are talking about this because the first third of the film, there's a hefty chunk with you interviewing your parents individually and they split up long ago.

• 1:09:29Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:09:30Josh Horowitz?

  And it's it's raw, it's real, it's the kind of conversation that I feel like everybody like kind of wishes they could have with their parents, but also doesn't want to ever have with their parents. Um, I don't even know what my question is, but like in retrospect.

• 1:09:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:09:44Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know. How do you feel about kind of going through that? What must have been a unbelievably awkward but powerful experience?

• 1:09:51Speaker 06

  Um, I do think that you you said it. Everybody, I think, has this wish to ask the hard questions. And in so many households, that's just foreboding. I mean, I it took me, you know, my parents probably divorced thirty five years ago or something nuts like forty years ago, you know, forty five. So it's been a long time. Um, and it really was stuck. It was like the third rail, you know, you just don't touch it. And yet I would touch it and raise it all the time because it was unsettled. It was unfinished. And I'm a kid. Nobody explains stuff to a kid. And so a kid makes it larger than life. So it was always present. I mean, it's in Mr. Rogers in me. Um, in fact, Fred and I talked about it the day I met Mr. Rogers. He went right for it because he always went for the hard stuff.

• 1:10:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 1:10:36Speaker 06

  And seeing to your question, it was wildly uncomfortable. Um, my mom lives on the Upper West Side. My dad's in Midwest. Um, it was wildly uncomfortable. I blame my brother, my filmmaking partner, Christopher, who said, I told him this sort of premise. I said, it's a hero's quest. I'm going to go and literally drive to all the places and I'll we'll we'll sort of intercut interviews with experts, right? That's that's the elevator pitch in a way. And he goes, you know what would really be messed up? Um, you should interview mom and dad. I'm really glad I did. It was obviously very generous of both of them. I think everybody knew that it would prove hoped that it would provide value and not be prurient,

• 1:11:16Speaker 06

  but instead, again, be a we story because I don't think there are families of origin that don't have similar or related dynamics or dysfunction because we inherit this stuff. And until somebody sort of breaks the mold or the model, I don't know how we improve. And you know, Fred said, this is another one of the great criticisms. Feelings are mentionable and manageable, right? So like, if you don't talk about it, it's certainly not going to change. So much credit to them. It was wildly uncomfortable, but I hung in there because I I hoped that it would help, you know? And I haven't screened the film yet where somebody doesn't come up and share something of their own life. And that seems to me to be the idea, more of this, you know?

• 1:11:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you mentioned like screening the film, you know? I often talk to filmmakers and actors who only kind of discover kind of what their film is about after the fact, whether it's just in the edit room or really even after the film's out through Q and As and interviews.

• 1:12:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:12:12Josh Horowitz?

  What are you discovering in this home stretch about your film, maybe that you didn't?

• 1:12:16Speaker 06

  That's a great question. That it, you know, I gotta be honest, I think I intuited this, but that it's that it's about all of us. I just, I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I, my pitch all along was I'm the center of the bell curve. I'm just a regular person and we want to believe that these are extraordinary, extreme stories. These are the stories we often watch. I, you know this, I love, love, love movies. Movies have been a refuge for me in times of chaos. I've always gone into a dark room with a community of strangers to laugh and cry. Love, love, love. You know this, in the most stressful moments at MTV News, I would sneak out and no one would know where I was. And I'd figure they'd think I'm at a meeting. I was at the movies.

• 1:12:58Speaker 06

  So I just think I intuited that like, there's this process of projection when we watch this kind of thing. And that if I was lucky, I could start a conversation like we're having, that we could start a conversation like this. Cause I, I know we're not alone, but we feel so alone. Our brain tricks us, we're not alone. We're wildly relational creatures, you know? So I think that it's, it really is just, it's the story of all of us.

• 1:13:26Josh Horowitz?

  I know you to be maybe one of the most compulsively creative people I know. Like, it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's music, it's writing, it's films, and it's often a couple of those things at least going on at once. And I know you told me the other day, you have a book coming out, coming out next year, which is really exciting. What can, what can we tease, folks? Is it's an extrapolation of this?

• 1:13:46Speaker 06

  It's a deeper, but if you can believe it, you know, this is a 70-minute documentary. The book will be 300 pages. It's sort of narrower and deeper. It does have, again, me as a runner, but it's really the we story. Much more research, many more voices, more interviews. And it's specifically about men and mental health because men are particularly unwell at this point, right now in history. And not that women aren't, but men are committing suicide at a rate of, you know, 4X women, you know, every 13 and a half minutes, deaths of despair, addiction, incarceration. Men are not great. So it's a deep dive into that.

• 1:14:25Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. So I'll end by just saying, like, you know, I felt bad it took me this long to see the movie. We've been talking about it forever. I was really impressed on so many different fronts. And I think you and your brother did it like a great job. Also, just like, you know, we like to nerd about, out about movies. We're texting constantly about the people that are on my podcast, et cetera, and stuff you're seeing. It's really well, I mean, it's just so well done. I mean, like, you know, it's, it's, you guys should feel very proud of it just in terms of the craft, the storytelling, and I think it, it really connected with me. And I know it's, it's connected with others. So congratulations, my friend.

• 1:14:59Speaker 06

  That means the world to me. I literally, Josh, was thinking about big swings.

• 1:15:06Josh Horowitz?

  And one of my mantras.

• 1:15:08Speaker 06

  And I was thinking about it because of you, because you know I'm a avid, avid listener based on the amount of texts you get from me, you know, an hour after you've dropped an app. And for us, this was a big swing in a whole bunch of different ways. But we also wanted it to be a step up from a production and an execution standpoint, cinematically, bearing in mind that the fact is we're a couple of brothers making movies in our free time, trying to just do what we can. So I really, man, that means the world.

• 1:15:40Josh Horowitz?

  No, mission accomplished. I'll remind folks again, Friends and Neighbors is the movie. Check it out on the PBS app, but also on VOD, everywhere, as of a couple of hours from now. So check it out. And Benjamin. Thanks for coming on the show.

• 1:15:53Speaker 06

  You're the best. You're the best. Thanks, buddy.

• 1:15:57Speaker 03

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't supposed to do this by Josh.

• 1:16:15Speaker 03

  You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime, you're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

• 1:16:59Speaker 03

  It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts, and let's solve this thing together.