Oscar Isaac, Vol. II

Oscar Isaac is back! And there's a lot to catch up on -- from STAR WARS and X-MEN to MOON KNIGHT, DUNE, and FRANKENSTEIN. And there's his fantastic performance in the new season of BEEF. Josh and Oscar talk about it all! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 5/3 -- Charlie Cox in NY -- Tickets here 5/5 -- Stanley Tucci in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠ 5/17 -- Billy Eichner in NY -- Tickets here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Josh Horowitz?

  I've been trying to help our friend Ryan Gosling get the Ghost Rider part for a few years. We're trying to make that happen. I'm trying to manifest this. I don't know why this is a struggle. This seems like a no brainer to me.

• 1:07Speaker 03

  Make it happen, fellas.

• 1:08Josh Horowitz?

  Right?

• 1:08Speaker 03

  I mean, it's a no brainer.

• 1:09Josh Horowitz?

  You, Gosling, Mahershala, in a film?

• 1:11Speaker 03

  Me on the back of the bike, just holding on to him, you know?

• 1:13Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know that.

• 1:14Speaker 03

  I mean, come on, man. Fire.

• 1:18Josh Horowitz?

  What a poster this is.

• 1:23Speaker 04

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins.

• 1:30Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, it's Oscar Isaac. It's been, I think, seven years since Oscar Isaac's been on the show. There's a lot to catch up on, including his amazing new series, season two of Beef. Him, Carey Mulligan, Kaylee Spahney, Charles Melton. This is one to watch, trust me, on Netflix right now. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast, for enjoying this on YouTube, on Spotify, however you're doing it. I appreciate you. Remember to hit that subscribe button. Before we get to Oscar today, a quick reminder, as always, patreon.com/happysayconfused. That is your one stop shopping for all things Happy Say Confused, all things Josh Horowitz, events, discount codes, merch, all the cool fun stuff. We have some really fun events coming

• 2:14Josh Horowitz?

  up. Let's see, I can say we have Stanley Tucci, May 5th, Stanley Tucci, 92nd Street Y, May 5th. We have Billy Eichner, May 17th, again at the 92nd Street Y, and we have Charlie Cox. How could I forget Charlie Cox? Finally, first time on the podcast, talking Daredevil. That's May 3rd, 92nd Street Y. All the information is in the show notes, and it's also in that Patreon, patreon.com/happysayconfused. Okay, so the main event today, as I said, it is Oscar Isaac. He is, you don't need me to fluff up Oscar Isaac. We all know, he's one of the great actors working today. And this is a great conversation. We start out on Beef, but this touches on,

• 2:55Josh Horowitz?

  of course, Inside Luan Davis and Star Wars, X-Men Apocalypse, and future endeavors and his aspirations, where he's at in his career right now. Some more work with Guillermo del Toro, perhaps, he teases. We talk about Frankenstein and more. He's one of the best in the business. It took way too long to get him back on the podcast, but it was well worth the wait, at least for me. So, without any further ado, please enjoy me and the one and only Oscar Isaac. Oscar, we're doing this. You ready for this? Oh, yeah. Welcome back to Happy Say Confused. Thanks, man. To paraphrase one of the great lines in cinematic history, "Somehow Oscar Isaac returned." Uh huh, uh huh. Good. That's really good, really good.

• 3:41Josh Horowitz?

  Starting on the perfect note. Yeah.

• 3:44Josh Horowitz?

  I'm gonna stick right.

• 3:46Josh Horowitz?

  Congratulations, my friend. This show, I told you off camera, but that's meaningless. Let's get it for the record. Somehow Beef has returned. Somehow Beef. Wise, too. Yeah, yeah. Beef, season two, whole new cast, whole new story. You killed in this. All the entire cast does. Thank you, thank you. You feeling good? You, I mean, this is, this is a special experience, special showrunner. Phineas doing the music, Kaylee, Carrie, Charles Melton. Is this top tier Oscar Isaac mountain? Is this?

• 4:17Speaker 03

  I think it's pretty up there. It's on the, it's on the ridge. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, I'm really proud of it. I think Lisa Unjin is an extraordinary writer and director. And he's got such a specific, unique tone. It's, it's just such a vibe as well, you know? I'm really excited about it.

• 4:41Josh Horowitz?

  So you, is this one of those things, I'm sure you watched it like all of us did the first season, which was exceptional. Like, do you, like, how much do you manifest stuff? And how much do you kind of receive stuff at this point in your career? Like, do you like make it be known you're a fan of Sonny's work? Or is it just sort of a cold call from his folks that he's interested in you?

• 5:00Speaker 03

  Well, there's a little bit of manifesting more into the ether. Like, I remember I was thinking as I was finishing up Frankenstein, I thought, it would be fun to do something a little more miniature, a little more normcore, you know? I kind of wanted, because I've been doing like very expressive stuff, which is amazing, you know? Like the play that I had done and then Julian Schnabel film in Frankenstein. Like, all this stuff was, you know, very required a lot. And I thought it'd be fun to do something like that. And then within a couple of weeks, I found out that Sonny was interested in speaking about the next season. And I had seen season one, I thought it was incredible. I thought the performances were astounding. I mean, Stephen, that third episode in the church,

• 5:44Speaker 03

  when he breaks down and then later plays the incubus song. I was like, this is my heart, this is the inside of my heart.

• 5:50Josh Horowitz?

  You cracked me open.

• 5:51Speaker 03

  Those things, this is my DNA. And so I was excited to talk to him and he, and he kind of laid out a bit of what the season was, but he was still ideating, he was still figuring it out. And, and it was really these long, very therapeutic Zoom calls that we would have over the next month, where we would just go off on tangents of different interests or things that were maybe inspired by that first episode that he shared with me. Then I'd say, oh, well, you know, I had an experience that was similar, or I had a friend that, you know, but this was how, this is what happened in that one. And slowly started putting together what this character might be. And that, yeah, that was the, that was the initial process. So I

• 6:36Speaker 03

  knew that this was going to be about really building something from a very experiential place.

• 6:41Josh Horowitz?

  So is that a preferred way of working for you generally now? I mean, you've worked in all matters, right? You've worked with the, probably the screenwriters, directors that have it totally locked in, no improv, this is the letter of the law. And then there are ones that are much more collaborative.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  I've, I've actually yet to really.

• 6:57Josh Horowitz?

  You haven't done the Fincher, Aaron Sorkin kind of like.

• 7:00Speaker 03

  No, I mean, look, the, the Coens are super specific with their dialogue. And Frankenstein, there was, but, but there was always room.

• 7:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:08Speaker 03

  To talk about stuff and to bring stuff in and shape things. So that, that hasn't really changed. And I've, I've always, I mean, from literally the very beginning, not been shy about trying to, hey, what can we do here? I think this might be a good idea. What do you think? You know, and I really do feel like if it comes, no matter what, if it comes from a place of just construction.

• 7:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Not, not, I need three more lines because I.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that, that you can kind of sniff out, you know, pretty easily. But if it's just about, there might be a way to make this a little more interesting.

• 7:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:45Speaker 03

  You know, and, and I've been very fortunate that most people have been able to not, you know, get so possessive of everything.

• 7:54Josh Horowitz?

  Is it hard for you to kind of like trust? Because it's all about trust at the end of the day, especially something like this, that's very collaborative, where you're kind of drawing from your own experiences. I mean, that's a big leap early on over Zoom with someone you've never literally shared a space with.

• 8:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:09Josh Horowitz?

  Is that just like, still you're feeling the energy? You're like.

• 8:12Speaker 03

  Well, that's why you drag out the deal making of it, you know, as long as, I don't sign till I'm.

• 8:18Josh Horowitz?

  Till the last day of the shoot.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  Till the last day of the shoot.

• 8:20Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, we haven't gotten a contract signed. What's going on?

• 8:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know. No, it is. It's incredibly terrifying because, you know, you're like, sure, this could work, but you don't know what anyone's like until you're, until you're in the shit together. Until you're in a foxhole.

• 8:36Josh Horowitz?

  What happened to your voice just now?

• 8:37Speaker 03

  I just go and go to the foxhole. It's my foxhole voice.

• 8:40Josh Horowitz?

  Is that your real, is that the real Oscar Isaac voice?

• 8:42Speaker 03

  This is the real Oscar Isaac when you're in the foxhole.

• 8:46Josh Horowitz?

  So like, at what point, like, in these Zoom conversations, like, are you, like, trusting it off that, like, early on, you're like, so this happened to me when I was a kid, this happened to me with my dad, like?

• 8:54Speaker 03

  Oh, well, the problem with me is that I'm a notorious oversharer. So, I mean, I could do that with someone at a party.

• 9:01Josh Horowitz?

  Have a seat.

• 9:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I got a lot to say.

• 9:06Speaker 03

  No, that, it just kind of happened organically, that we just started talking. So it was, the trust is more about,

• 9:14Speaker 03

  even with all these great talks we're having, does it actually turn into something that's ultimately quite collaborative? You know, or are we just dancing around the inevitable thing of like, but these are, this is what it is, and now you gotta make it work?

• 9:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right, because I'm sure that happens too. It's like, someone wants you to sign on, someone wants you to feel comfortable, it's like, make them feel like they're part of the process. And then it's like, wait, once that it's all, as you say, once the deal is signed, like, here's the, here's the actual script.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, and even, it's like, and, or, we're doing all this work and talking about all these different ideas, and yeah, yeah, yeah. But when it comes time to incorporating them in, maybe they're not incorporated the way that you imagined they were going to be incorporated, and then, and then you keep trying, you can't quite get there, or sometimes your ideas were bad.

• 9:59Josh Horowitz?

  Impossible.

• 10:00Speaker 03

  Now, it's, I don't know what we're doing.

• 10:02Josh Horowitz?

  Well, there's also, like, this show in particular, as well, when I was watching, and I've watched the whole thing, I told you, it's honestly amazing. There's so much, like, acting is all about exposing yourself and embarrassing yourself in front of strangers or.

• 10:13Speaker 03

  And exposing yourself to strangers.

• 10:15Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, yeah, in every conceivable way. Like, in this one, in this one, not to ruin anything, but like, I don't know, there's like psychedelics, there's you masturbating, there's Charles Melton sweating on you, there's a lot of just like, awkward, what must, in the moment, feel like, I am out there, how did I get into this? I mean, this is what you signed up for when you became an actor, but like.

• 10:38Speaker 03

  It's for Charles Melton to sweat on.

• 10:39Josh Horowitz?

  That was the dream, at Juilliard, one day.

• 10:43Speaker 03

  Chick.

• 10:44Josh Horowitz?

  But like, how do you deal with those days? How do you silence the part of your brain that's screaming? Don't know.

• 10:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, the conversations helped a lot. They really did because they oriented everything. And, and then the big key is getting somebody like Carey Mulligan to be your scene partner. You know, your, your ride or die. And there's just nobody better. She's, she's astounding. She helped. I mean, of course she helped, but like she created this relationship with me in such an astounding, intimate, like very detailed and very funny way.

• 11:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:28Speaker 03

  So at every turn, she met and exceeded, you know, any of the stuff that I was bringing to it. She, you know, and with such a gentle touch.

• 11:37Josh Horowitz?

  There are other actors besides Carey Mulligan and Jessica Chastain, you know?

• 11:40Speaker 03

  Like just see. I know, but man.

• 11:43Josh Horowitz?

  But if you're gonna only work with two, that should be the two probably.

• 11:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:47Josh Horowitz?

  Do they, do they share anything in common in terms of the way they approach the work or vibe or anything?

• 11:52Speaker 03

  Um, I mean, yeah, they're, they're just, you know, just take it really seriously.

• 11:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  And, and yeah, go like kind of go all in. But you know, with Carey, what was amazing too was being able to, we've worked three times. This is our third time working together. So to be able to look back at our, you know, all these different moments in our lives and kind of use a lot of that specific history.

• 12:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:18Speaker 03

  In, and then adding in, you know, of course, like we were, we were always just friends, always, always, always. But the idea that like, we can kind of chart. Okay. Well then, what we met at this point, it was like 2009 for Drive. So imagine Josh and Lindsay met around that time. And what was happening around the time that we met? Well, these were the bands that we were listening to. This was the music. Okay, cool, cool. So then maybe Josh and maybe they met at a concert.

• 12:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:42Speaker 03

  You know, we met at Nick Refan's house, you know? I don't think that's where they met.

• 12:46Josh Horowitz?

  Also chaotic and strange.

• 12:47Speaker 03

  Kind of like taking the MDM at a concert. But, and so, you know, what did they do and how did that plan out? And then where were we, you know, and just kind of bringing in or what was happening in our lives with, had we just come out of a relationship?

• 12:59Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 13:00Speaker 03

  And so just trying to build all that so that when we look at each other, particularly when we're being really nasty with each other,

• 13:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  there's this history and this longing and this love that's underneath it all, all the time, which is what makes it, I think, particularly sad.

• 13:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what the adjectives are. What would the adjectives be to describe Joshua? You give Josh as a, I don't know if you give us a good name in this one. I mean, he's a, I mean, I feel empathy for him, but he's also, I don't even know, he's a sad guy.

• 13:33Speaker 03

  He's got a mini mullet.

• 13:36Josh Horowitz?

  Let's talk about the hair. Is this, is this the talking point of the campaign? I mean, it should be.

• 13:40Speaker 03

  It should be. Tim Nolan, my genius hair designer, he came back from, I mean, we've done, we've done everything together. I mean, he's the guy that made the dune beard.

• 13:49Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 13:49Speaker 03

  I mean, he's this, he's, he really is genius. And he came back from Australia, he's Australian, he's like, you gotta do the mullet, everyone's got the mullet. This is, I think Josh is a guy that, you know, is building, constructing this kind of idea of himself. It was like the cool general manager that like,

• 14:04Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 14:04Speaker 03

  like still party a little bit, I'm still like a young guy, I'm hip, I know what's going on.

• 14:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:09Speaker 03

  You know, and so I think that adds to that. You know, it has a satirical element, obviously, but then also it's done really well.

• 14:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:17Speaker 03

  And so it does both of those things.

• 14:19Josh Horowitz?

  We'll be right back with more Happy, Sad, Confused.

• 14:25Speaker 00

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• 14:56Speaker 05

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• 15:28Josh Horowitz?

  You have been on quite the hair journey throughout your career. I was, I was looking back. So like on a scale of one to five Oscar Isaacs, how would you rate these? And this includes facial hair too. Let's go back to the, the Robin Hood. You had a very sculpted goatee in that one.

• 15:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. That was particularly sculpted. I'm gonna go. And the hair was cool. It was really curly.

• 15:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 15:52Speaker 03

  I mean, maybe a little too sculpted. I'm gonna go with a three on that one.

• 15:55Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, three on that one. Uh, let's jump to, you know, sucker punch is kind of a, that's kind of a Gomez Adams vibe to the mustache.

• 16:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:03Josh Horowitz?

  As I, again, very, very meticulous, very meticulous.

• 16:07Speaker 03

  I thought, I thought it was great for sucker punch, but I think you're right. It is quite Gomez Adams. So I'm gonna go two for not being the most original.

• 16:13Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Classic Lewin Davis. That's like a luxurious, wavy, curly kind of thing. That's.

• 16:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. Um, I was a little disappointed with myself on that one. What do you, I'm gonna go with a three on that one.

• 16:25Josh Horowitz?

  From the hair standpoint, the performance grade.

• 16:27Speaker 03

  No, the, the beard standpoint.

• 16:29Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 16:29Speaker 03

  Because I was like, I wanted to make it look more like Dave Van Rongk and he had big jowls.

• 16:34Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 16:34Speaker 03

  And so I remember I like, I, I wanted to make that shape.

• 16:38Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 16:40Speaker 03

  It's a little too groom beard for Lewin. I was like, nah, he would have been a little scruffier. So that, that's, that's just when I look at it. That was one, one little demerit.

• 16:49Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, ex machina, that's like a real buzz cut.

• 16:52Speaker 03

  That was really solid. Yeah, yeah.

• 16:53Josh Horowitz?

  Full beard. That's a look. That's a, that's.

• 16:55Speaker 03

  That's a strong look and we, we had a long wig for a while. Cause I was like, this guy, why would he cut his hair? Why would he? And so we had this crazy black wig. Um, I mean, I looked kind of feral.

• 17:07Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  And I thought, that's interesting. But then we thought, but what would he, would he want to look like that for Donald's character?

• 17:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 17:14Speaker 03

  What would he do? And so I'm like, no, maybe he like shaved his head right before he got there.

• 17:18Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 17:18Speaker 03

  And so then it went with that.

• 17:19Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Let's go back. What was, what were the ratings? What was the?

• 17:21Speaker 03

  I'll say four for that one.

• 17:22Josh Horowitz?

  Four for that one. And Lewin Davis, you're.

• 17:24Speaker 03

  Three.

• 17:24Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. We, we skipped Poe. Poe, Poe had a tussled.

• 17:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:30Josh Horowitz?

  Like nice. Yeah. What do you think?

• 17:32Speaker 03

  Oh, good. I'll go three.

• 17:36Josh Horowitz?

  I do think Lido, the Dune look, that's like, that's the launch, I think it's the hard launch of Silver Fox Oscar Isaac.

• 17:44Speaker 03

  And it may be.

• 17:45Josh Horowitz?

  Right?

• 17:46Speaker 03

  Like add a little, let a little of the gray in. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:49Josh Horowitz?

  Embrace it.

• 17:50Speaker 03

  That thing, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna hit that with a five, man.

• 17:52Josh Horowitz?

  That's, that's.

• 17:52Speaker 03

  That Dune beard was like sculpted out of marble.

• 17:54Josh Horowitz?

  I think the world agrees.

• 17:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:56Josh Horowitz?

  Is it nice that like, you kind of had the best of all possible worlds on Dune? Like you had the great experience on one and they keep talking about you in the subsequent movies.

• 18:04Speaker 03

  I think in the trailer, I'm like, yeah, daddy's still around. Get on with it, guys. There's a lot of other stuff going on right now. Like giant sandworms. Let it go.

• 18:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, Dune 3, daddy issues. That's what it's sometimes. So no flashback. They didn't, uh, they didn't, they didn't.

• 18:20Speaker 03

  I'm not, I'm not at liberty to say.

• 18:23Josh Horowitz?

  You just tried to.

• 18:23Speaker 03

  There's no flashbacks.

• 18:26Josh Horowitz?

  Let's reminisce a little bit. We've, we've kind of done the career conversation before, but I want to bounce around a little bit with you. Cause like, when I look at the chronology, um, around like 2010, 2011 is kind of like the first rush of like a, a cool like trio of films as I, as I see it. And we've talked about Robin Hood, which was a big one. That's Ridley Scott.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:43Josh Horowitz?

  Casting even a major role in that.

• 18:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:45Josh Horowitz?

  And there's.

• 18:46Speaker 03

  King of the whites.

• 18:47Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly. And then there's Sucker Punch with Zack Snyder.

• 18:50Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 18:50Josh Horowitz?

  And there's Drive.

• 18:51Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 18:51Josh Horowitz?

  Does it feel like when you look back at the kind of like that year, 18 months of, of shooting those, like that felt like that's the leveling up, that's kind of like changing your position in, in the industry?

• 19:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like, yeah, there was a lot more, um, you know, it was all supporting parts, but these great supporting roles that I was getting to, to work on with really interesting directors. And yeah, it felt like there was some, some momentum building. And then there was like this little bit of a lull and.

• 19:19Josh Horowitz?

  Before Luan, you're saying?

• 19:20Speaker 03

  Before Luan, yeah. Which was again, like you never know how the universe is unfolding, which that lull actually allowed me to, I started playing a lot more guitar around that time. I was doing open mics. I was recording music.

• 19:31Josh Horowitz?

  I remember going to the premiere part, it was like, it was like a rooftop party in New York for, what was the movie that you played in?

• 19:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, uh, 10 Years?

• 19:38Josh Horowitz?

  10 Years. Do you remember this? It was in the East Village.

• 19:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 19:41Josh Horowitz?

  You were on a roof, like Channing was an amazing cast.

• 19:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rosario was there. Yeah, Chris Pratt was in it.

• 19:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yes. I'll never forget, no one remembers sadly that.

• 19:49Speaker 03

  You know?

• 19:50Josh Horowitz?

  Right, exactly. And yeah, so clearly you were embracing through that role, but also just generally.

• 19:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that role came around. So yeah, it was just like, there was a lot of music bubbling up around that time. Yeah. And then Luanne Davis came and that was the, that was the first lead part in the movie.

• 20:05Josh Horowitz?

  Before that, though, like, it's funny. So I had a conversation with Tony Gilroy for the podcast about a year or so ago. And he talked about this audition that you give for Bourne, for Bourne Legacy. And he said, in no uncertain terms, like, you blew him away, blew the producers away. And there was a moment where they were going to try to fight for you to be the lead.

• 20:25Speaker 03

  And then that moment passed.

• 20:26Josh Horowitz?

  It happens. You got your, you got your time.

• 20:28Speaker 03

  And they surrendered. No, but again, you know, and that was an incredible moment, like coming in and doing that. And then him being like, you're my guy. I'm gonna, you know, really try to make this happen. And, and I remember being in the car with my mom in Florida, been like, oh, two weeks after I had done this, like, eight hour screen test. And I had, I had, what's it called? Like, not broken my foot, sprained my foot, really bad skateboarding. And so when it came time to do the, the screen test, I had a boot on. So I was like, having to be like a, like Bourne, but like hobbling around, trying to look tough.

• 21:04Josh Horowitz?

  It's for the character.

• 21:04Speaker 03

  So at that point, Tony was like, I can't do anything for you. I know. I remember getting the call. He was like, it's not gonna go your way. I'm so sorry. And, and you know, it's like, it's just, you know, we gotta, it's, they're just too nervous taking a chance. Someone that's never even been leading a movie before.

• 21:18Josh Horowitz?

  But there must have been that moment or two where you're like, you start to plan out the next five.

• 21:21Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. I was like, I gotta start doing motorcycle training and I gotta, you know?

• 21:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:26Speaker 03

  And, and, and then, and then a few weeks later, Luanne Davis auditioned. So I would not have been available.

• 21:35Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, wow.

• 21:35Speaker 03

  To do Luanne Davis.

• 21:36Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, things would have worked out.

• 21:37Speaker 03

  Again, so you don't know how it, you know, the way that things play. And then Tony was like, I'd love for you to come play at least a part in the, and so I'm in the very beginning of the movie.

• 21:46Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 21:46Speaker 03

  You know, and I get a rocket to the ass.

• 21:49Josh Horowitz?

  Classic Oscar maneuver.

• 21:50Speaker 03

  Classic Oscar maneuver. But, but that's amazing. I mean, Tony's just, he's brilliant. He's got an incredible movie coming out.

• 21:56Josh Horowitz?

  I know, Behemoth, right?

• 21:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I'm very excited for that one.

• 22:01Josh Horowitz?

  Speaking of like, so was Pedro a contemporary way back when? Like, were you guys up for similar roles? Like, did you have a crew that you were kind of like always seeing at auditions like way back when?

• 22:10Speaker 03

  No, um, no, not so much. We did a play together.

• 22:15Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, was that it? Okay.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, we were in a play together. We became really close friends from that point, you know? But it wasn't, no, I don't think we ever were at an audition at the same time together.

• 22:27Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. So, um, Louis Davis, I know we've talked about this and you've told the story a lot of it, but like getting that role, obviously a game changer. I've talked to so many actors that went up for that. Like, they saw so many people. A lot of people, it was like, that was the last audition I did. It was like, it was like, it was a big one. Everybody like put themselves out there. How aware were you? I'm sure you've like worked with actors or met people that, that were up for it. I mean, I think like even like, I think Fast Bender went up for it. Were you aware of like who?

• 22:58Speaker 03

  If he told me that he went up for it, maybe he did.

• 23:00Josh Horowitz?

  I'm pretty sure.

• 23:00Speaker 03

  No, I knew that, yeah, I knew that it was really sought after and, but I, I think I got so hooked on to the, it was less about the other actors. It was more in my mind, like, of course they're gonna have to get somebody that looks like Dave Van Ronk, like a six foot four Swede. And I'm not so much that. And so I, that's what I was more worried about. And when I came into the audition, I remember seeing a picture of Ray Le Montagne. And I was like, oh, he's kind of smaller and darker. He's got dark hair. And I said, and this was for the casting director. I said, oh, so you guys are, you're looking at that type too? And she said, no, no, he came in. He crushed it.

• 23:38Speaker 03

  I was like, okay, good, cool. That's what I get for asking.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  And then, you know, I got a call back and then eventually got the part, but yeah.

• 23:46Josh Horowitz?

  Is that still like, it's probably hard to like reach that level of like that phone call, that email, when you find out you get that lead role in a Coen Brothers movie. Like, is that kind of still one of the highs, if not the high of a career?

• 23:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yes.

• 23:59Josh Horowitz?

  Did you call mom dad? Did you remember what you did?

• 24:01Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 24:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  Called mom dad. I just, I couldn't believe it. I was rehearsing for a play. Um, and, uh, I, I, I got there that day and I was like, guys, I can't believe it. I just freaking got that. There's like, I couldn't believe it. Yeah. It was, it was an amazing moment and I had, um, I remember, yeah, my mom came up and stayed with me where I was staying and we celebrated and it just was, it was, I remember walking down, I was in Tribeca. I was like, cause I was staying at a friend's house and I was just like walking on the sidewalk. And it was Joel that called to tell me that he's like, so, uh, why don't you do this?

• 24:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right. The most understated Coen Brothers way, right? Of course. Did you, when you look back at that shoot, was there ever any kind of imposter syndrome? Or kind of like, did you feel like, no, they, this is kind of what I've been building to and I'm the right guy for this or?

• 24:47Speaker 03

  I think almost neither of them. Like I get so like, it was more like tunnel, a little tunnel vision in it. You know, it just was like-

• 24:53Josh Horowitz?

  There's so much work to do. So I just have to get to do the job.

• 24:55Speaker 03

  It's like being in the foxhole.

• 24:57Josh Horowitz?

  We're back in the foxhole.

• 24:58Speaker 03

  I'm gonna rename the show In the Foxhole.

• 25:00Josh Horowitz?

  In the Foxhole.

• 25:02Speaker 03

  So, uh, um, uh, it, it really, uh, yeah, I like, I, it just gets narrow and it's just like, okay, today, what's the next thing? What's the, without getting too caught up in-

• 25:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:12Speaker 03

  That stuff. Cause it's just crippling otherwise.

• 25:15Josh Horowitz?

  So in the wake of that, I mean, I love A Most Violent Year, which more people should see. If they haven't seen it, kind of like, it feels like, those that see it, they know, they know how special that movie is. Uh, people have seen Ex Machina and love that film and that's begins a, a friendship, I would imagine, a collaboration with Alex Garland.

• 25:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:31Josh Horowitz?

  Who's like a singular-

• 25:33Speaker 03

  He is.

• 25:34Josh Horowitz?

  Talent. I mean, you shot that, as I recall, I believe in Norway and, and the UK. It's kind of like part of that experience tied to like, I was away, I was out there in the strange, in the strange kind of like remote environments.

• 25:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:47Josh Horowitz?

  This weird look, no, no floppy hair. Like what do you, what, what pops to mind when you think of that experience first?

• 25:54Speaker 03

  Well, purpose of mine is Alex coming up to visit me. I was in Denmark and we, I think it was like three days, he got a hotel room and we just sat in a room and went through every single possible angle of the script to understand the puzzle of who this person is and what is he doing, what is he pretending to do, what is he, you know, it was very like, almost like tech, like building a robot together is what it felt like with Alex. And that was, that was, I think, the first time I really did that to that extent where it was just like, you know, and it wasn't even about changing this, change that, but really getting into all the granular bits and pieces and looking at it from every angle to, to really understand it.

• 26:39Josh Horowitz?

  He's an intimidating guy. I mean, I don't, you know, like he, he doesn't suffer fools. I sense he's a...

• 26:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:47Speaker 03

  My wife bit of the first time, she's like, he seems like someone who's really trying to not be angry.

• 26:54Josh Horowitz?

  You're about to, you might set him off.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  It's just a little, it's just right there. I'm trying, I'm trying.

• 26:58Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right.

• 26:59Speaker 03

  He's amazing. He's a great, he's got an incredible sense of humor. He's like so funny and just, you know, he's razor sharp and I really hope one day we get to do something together again.

• 27:08Josh Horowitz?

  And then when like of all things, like the dance becomes like the talked about moment, like the memeified thing that's people still send around to this day, how does that sit with you that you have?

• 27:17Speaker 03

  It's great. I mean, it's fantastic because again, it just like, it was such a genius move on his part to suddenly spike this crazy dynamic, this tone that's sort of just dread and ominous. And then suddenly there's disco dancing, you know?

• 27:32Josh Horowitz?

  Are those your actual moves? I assume there was a choreographer, like to do?

• 27:35Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, there was a choreographer. There was a very strict choreographer, Mr. Disco of 1995.

• 27:41Josh Horowitz?

  What? That was?

• 27:43Speaker 03

  He had been...

• 27:44Josh Horowitz?

  Anointed such?

• 27:45Speaker 03

  Anointed, yeah, yeah.

• 27:46Josh Horowitz?

  Wow.

• 27:47Speaker 03

  I mean, 95, you know?

• 27:48Josh Horowitz?

  Classic.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:50Josh Horowitz?

  I also thought I was rewatching it this morning. I was like, I forgot what you're wearing in it too. And it's like, you're like dressed like General Zod in Superman 2, if you remember that. It's like this like, it's, it's like open...

• 27:59Speaker 03

  It's just a hoodie. It's just an open hoodie.

• 28:00Josh Horowitz?

  No, you've got a lot of chest exposed and the one...

• 28:02Speaker 03

  Well, the chest is...

• 28:04Josh Horowitz?

  You don't want to deny the folks that.

• 28:05Speaker 03

  No, I don't get to deny the folks that. But, uh, but yeah, I'm like, we're like sweatpants and a hoodie. But he wears it like armor.

• 28:14Josh Horowitz?

  We've talked about Star Wars once, once or twice.

• 28:18Josh Horowitz?

  Rank the films for me. Rank your three Star Wars films. What's your favorite?

• 28:23Speaker 03

  My favorite, the experience of doing the first one was so wild.

• 28:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:27Speaker 03

  You know, it was like, there was so much excitement and everything was new. That, yeah, I think that the singularity of that thing was amazing and getting to meet JJ and becoming close with him and, and, you know, John and Daisy and reuniting with Adam because he had done Lumen Davis.

• 28:47Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:47Speaker 03

  So that was, that was all just like, it's such an exciting moment.

• 28:51Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I love, it's like, I feel like weird that I'm scared to say this. I love The Last Jedi. You know what it's like out there. It's insane. Like, to say that, it's like, oh my God, they're gonna come after me. I love that movie though, so much. I mean, you were a Star Wars fan, like, you know what fandoms are like, but did even the extremity of the reaction to especially Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker surprise you?

• 29:12Speaker 03

  Not really. I mean, like, yeah, I've grown up with like, fans and geeks and, you know, like, that's been my, my family. And so I know how much ownership people feel over them. But I also loved doing Last Jedi with Ryan, like, getting to meet him and he's just so laid back and sweet and funny and, you know, trying to, to, you know, also make it his own. And I, I loved that and Benicio being in it too. Doing stuttering.

• 29:42Josh Horowitz?

  Of course.

• 29:46Speaker 03

  Being like, Benicio hearing it hard. It was, yeah, I really loved it. It was just an amazing experience to spend that much time in, in London. Yeah, it was great.

• 29:54Josh Horowitz?

  Now, don't get mad at me, but the somehow Palpatine returned line, it follows you. It's, it's on the interweb. It's out there. Do you remember reading that line and being like, that does a lot. That line is, is saying a lot. That's doing a lot of work.

• 30:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, those were reshoots.

• 30:09Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 30:10Speaker 03

  We had to do reshoots. Yeah. Because when I look at it, I'm like, the wig's pretty good. You know, like, I think I cut my hair already and had come in. Yeah, man, those are, those are like those surgical strikes where you like come in and, and

• 30:23Josh Horowitz?

  Trying to make it sense of it.

• 30:24Speaker 03

  Trying, like, they're like, yeah, scrambling, trying to get everything going, you know. And I think that had been Yeah, that was like a new, obviously like a new addition.

• 30:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 30:34Speaker 03

  And, you know, so there was a, there was a lot of movement and flux throughout, throughout that whole thing. But um, had you asked me if at that moment, I thought that was going to be one.

• 30:46Josh Horowitz?

  Never know what your legacy is gonna be.

• 30:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. But uh.

• 30:51Josh Horowitz?

  Dancing in Ex Machina and somehow Palpatine returns.

• 30:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, hey, man, I mean, I, I committed to the exasperation, that's for sure.

• 31:00Josh Horowitz?

  You did. Now, I did pin you, I did corner you on the carpet at the Globes about that Soderbergh script and you, you pretended like you had no idea what I was talking about.

• 31:09Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 31:09Josh Horowitz?

  The Hunt for Pen, Pen Sello thing.

• 31:11Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 31:12Josh Horowitz?

  Now, Soderbergh's talking, he's saying like, how much it in love.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  He has a lot of talking now.

• 31:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, he's doing a lot of talking because he knows, he says, it's never gonna happen at this point. Like, are you willing to say, like, did you actually read it?

• 31:22Speaker 03

  No, I didn't read it. I had nothing to do with it.

• 31:24Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 31:25Speaker 03

  They wouldn't show me that.

• 31:26Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. So you found out about it like the rest of us?

• 31:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:29Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, my God.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:30Josh Horowitz?

  So when you heard about that, that must have been like, you've worked with Soderbergh way back when.

• 31:34Speaker 03

  Way back when, yeah. One of the very earliest things. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. It's like, yeah, I was in there for like a week or something.

• 31:40Josh Horowitz?

  Can you imagine a Soderbergh Star Wars?

• 31:42Speaker 03

  That would have been amazing, I'm sure. It would be incredible.

• 31:45Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so last thing. If you were a betting man today, in three, five, 25 years, am I gonna see Poe again? Like, what's, where are we at? Because I'm sure.

• 31:54Speaker 03

  Maybe.

• 31:58Josh Horowitz?

  You're in theory.

• 31:58Speaker 03

  See you scaredy.

• 32:01Josh Horowitz?

  You're open in theory.

• 32:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:03Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 32:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:03Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 32:04Speaker 03

  There's a world left.

• 32:07Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know what you're talking about. Everything is great, Oscar. Speaking of which, Apocalypse. Perfect segue.

• 32:12Speaker 03

  Great.

• 32:15Speaker 03

  Let's just end with that.

• 32:17Josh Horowitz?

  Not the movie, just the Apocalypse.

• 32:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:23Josh Horowitz?

  No, we can't end there. Um, like, you joked about like, you know, you went in with the right reasons and you wanted to work with these amazing actors and we talked about the makeup was not what you expected and it kind of like closed you off. Like, is there a lesson to be learned from, from that experience for you?

• 32:39Speaker 03

  Well, not really, because it's just you don't know. You know, it's impossible to know the way things come together. There's so many people involved and the makeup, I've talked about the makeup, but the makeup part is like, I love those guys. Those guys were so good and like really talented and every, every time it would get better and better, like, you know, the, the application and the taking of it off. And, you know, it's like a whole team of people. So when I say how hard it was, it was just hard to be encased in, you know, like it was, it was really intense, you know? Do you have the head mold anywhere? Do you have that like in a shrine somewhere? No, I do have, I have like the belt buckle. There's like a big A belt buckle and the, oh, there was like a, a hand, like wrist

• 33:23Speaker 03

  thing that was really cool, like the way it was designed with all this like alien kind of semi Egyptian stuff on it. And yeah, I mean, I, you know, I wanted a shot. I, I, at first I was like, this was, you know, this is, you know, nowadays, I think, you know, when you, when you see what they did with Thanos, you know, you're like, okay, you've got to be big, you know? And, you know, you can't really fudge it, uh, but, you know, it was a, it was a swing. Eh, this is gonna miss. Not a miss, just a swing that. Yeah, it happens, you know? It happens.

• 33:54Josh Horowitz?

  More Happy, Say Confused, coming up.

• 34:00Speaker 00

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• 35:03Josh Horowitz?

  You did dive back into the comic book world with Moon Knight. Was that, was that a tough decision? I mean, was that just about if I'm gonna do like a superhero character, like do one that has these issues? Like, this is a cool, this is a cool one.

• 35:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, you know, I'm also like a fan, so there, you know, and I'd gotten a few different Marvel things. Uh, and there was something, I really liked, uh, Muhammad Diab. Uh, I loved his movie, uh, that he had made before Cairo. Seventy, there's a number. Okay. I can't remember the number.

• 35:34Josh Horowitz?

  You're good.

• 35:34Speaker 03

  Sorry, Muhammad, but it's an incredible movie. And, uh, and I just thought, oh, this guy's got a really interesting point of view. I had never heard of Moon Knight before.

• 35:44Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, really?

• 35:44Speaker 03

  But I, I loved what it was trying to do with the ID and I saw an opportunity. And this is something that Willem Dafoe said to me one time. He dropped, just pick up that, pick up that name real quick. Uh, he's, I, I asked him, I was like, how do you pick stuff, man? Do you just, is it like the director, is it the script? Like, what do you? And he just said, uh, I'd look for space. Is there space to do something, right? Is it, you know, is it, if this is, if it's like, deliver this thing? He's like, no, I don't wanna just deliver something. I want like space to create something. And then in that one, I just saw a lot of space to be like, you know what? If we really take it seriously and really look into what, what it's like to experience the ID, then there's an opportunity to do something special with it.

• 36:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:27Speaker 03

  Um, and, and so that was the, you know, that was the impetus and the decision to do that.

• 36:32Josh Horowitz?

  Anxious to do more? I mean, there's always talk, obviously, and a lot of people have talked about like Midnight Suns as a potential.

• 36:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, there was an interesting talk about Midnight Suns. I mean, again, it's, it's a, there's a, fragility is not the right word, but it's like a very tonally.

• 36:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:47Speaker 03

  It's really important, you know, because we're, we're playing with real stuff with that one. You know, like there's like, it's, it's expressing something very real and, and challenging and difficult. And so, I, you know, for me.

• 36:59Josh Horowitz?

  You wanna respect that.

• 36:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, I feel like if you're gonna go, you know, it's, it's not, uh, you gotta take it really seriously as well. You know, even though it's a crazy comic book, but that's what it's trying to do. It's doing both of those things.

• 37:10Josh Horowitz?

  It would be, I've been, I've been trying to help our, our friend Ryan Gosling get the Ghost Rider part for a few years. We're trying to make that happen. I'm trying to manifest this. I don't know why this is a struggle. This seems like a no brainer to me.

• 37:19Speaker 03

  Make it happen, fellas.

• 37:20Josh Horowitz?

  Right?

• 37:20Speaker 03

  I mean, it's a no brainer.

• 37:21Josh Horowitz?

  You, Gosling, Mahershala in a film?

• 37:23Speaker 03

  Me on the back of the bike, just holding on to him, you know?

• 37:25Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  I mean, come on, man. Fire and the cape.

• 37:30Josh Horowitz?

  What a poster this is.

• 37:31Speaker 03

  That's the poster.

• 37:36Josh Horowitz?

  Um, is it hard for you now? I mean, like, so you're, you're.

• 37:39Speaker 03

  Make it happen, internet.

• 37:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 37:41Speaker 03

  Make that post.

• 37:42Josh Horowitz?

  They will, trust me, they will. Um, you're an actor that has the luxury of choice, which 99% of actors don't now. Was there like a big shift like in like, oh, wait, I can say no to things. Like, was that tough to kind of like figure out?

• 37:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I felt irresponsible to say no to anything.

• 37:56Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:56Speaker 03

  For a while.

• 37:57Josh Horowitz?

  Conditioned to be like.

• 37:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 37:59Josh Horowitz?

  Chase it.

• 37:59Speaker 03

  Exactly, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, always in that kind of state of, uh, falling apart, like, you know, this might be the last one, this might be the last one, might be the last one, you know?

• 38:10Josh Horowitz?

  Well, and especially because like, and I know you talked about kind of like that period of time in like 2017, 2018, when you're, you're losing your mom and you're working a lot and it's kind of like, is that, is it safe to say that that's kind of like a shift point? Like, like a wake up point, like, I need to take care of myself. I need to take care of my, my life.

• 38:24Speaker 03

  No, it took many years after that.

• 38:26Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, really?

• 38:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, good, long decade stretch before I realized, yeah.

• 38:31Josh Horowitz?

  But you're there now.

• 38:32Speaker 03

  Running on fumes.

• 38:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 38:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, there now, there now. And also you realize any yes is a no to something else and any no is a yes to something else.

• 38:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 38:41Speaker 03

  So it's not, you know, to think of it in such binary terms, you're like, no, it's just being, yeah, allowing something else to be.

• 38:49Josh Horowitz?

  But I, I get it because it must be such a mind fuck, for lack of a better term, to be like, because I know, for instance, I don't know if this is like an example, like, you were attached to Megalopolis, a lot of people were attached to Megalopolis, but like, to work with Coppola.

• 39:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:01Josh Horowitz?

  Like, and then to like, say like, I gotta do other things and take time for myself.

• 39:05Speaker 03

  That was really, really, really hard.

• 39:07Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  That was really, really tough to do that. Yeah. And then I've had to do it a few times since then where it's like, if everything was, you know, a different way, I could do that.

• 39:16Josh Horowitz?

  But you can't do everything.

• 39:17Speaker 03

  The old part of me could do that. Yeah. And I said, I heard someone say once, you can have anything you want, but you can't have everything you want. And so picking that anything, you know, being like, this, I have to say yes to this.

• 39:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  That means I have to say no to that.

• 39:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So where are you at right now in terms of, I see on the IMDB, there's a bunch of stuff. I mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hear you in the new Spider-Man movie, I'm sure. Um, but. Like, what's your attitude in the kind of next couple of years? Like, theater's a big commitment. I saw you do City Pu- Prestini, you were amazing in that. Um, I don't know if that's a priority, but that's a big, that's a big lifestyle commitment.

• 39:52Speaker 03

  It is, it's like, yes, very labor intensive doing a play, especially like a Broadway play. Not as bad as a musical or Broadway, that's like the most labor intensive thing as an actor one can do.

• 40:01Josh Horowitz?

  Would you ever do a musical?

• 40:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's possible.

• 40:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, it's possible.

• 40:05Josh Horowitz?

  Like, you haven't sung on film in a profound, like a major way since Lewin Davis, right?

• 40:13Speaker 03

  I think you're right, yeah, yeah.

• 40:15Josh Horowitz?

  Is it time?

• 40:16Speaker 03

  It might be time.

• 40:17Josh Horowitz?

  Mamma Mia 3, ready?

• 40:20Speaker 03

  That's it, that's the one!

• 40:21Josh Horowitz?

  We're manifesting so much today.

• 40:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, so much manifesting.

• 40:25Josh Horowitz?

  But, I, I mean, again, I guess just broadly speaking, what are you, where are you at right now? Like, what are you, what kind of things are you looking for, lifestyle, work-wise?

• 40:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know, um, not sure, maybe, maybe something that keeps me around, you know? Um, kind of going off, away, far away, uh, I've got little kids, so that, that can be challenging. So probably something that, you know, keeps me nearby. I can take a briefcase to work in the morning and clock out and come back.

• 40:52Josh Horowitz?

  Working insurance?

• 40:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:55Josh Horowitz?

  That's the block?

• 40:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I'm thinking about that.

• 40:57Josh Horowitz?

  Are you showing the films that you grew up with to your kids yet? They're, they're at that age now where they can probably appreciate some of the movies.

• 41:03Speaker 03

  Quite yet, I think there's, look, there's a lot of dad around now, so I feel like a little, you know, meaning like, you know, it's just like they've got to deal with a lot, like they've had to come visit me and go on sets and stuff, so it's... They saw the Star Wars movies a while back in Marathon with all of them.

• 41:18Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, wow.

• 41:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I think it kind of washed over them a little bit.

• 41:21Josh Horowitz?

  Did you go from prequel, what was your order, how did you do it?

• 41:23Speaker 03

  I, I know, I went, uh...

• 41:25Josh Horowitz?

  Original trilogy?

• 41:26Speaker 03

  Original trilogy, then prequels, then...

• 41:31Josh Horowitz?

  There's no right or wrong way.

• 41:32Speaker 03

  It's just the way I experienced.

• 41:33Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly, exactly. What did they think of, did they stare at Poe Dameron and say that guy looks familiar?

• 41:39Speaker 03

  No, they're like, hey dad, but just like not.

• 41:41Josh Horowitz?

  Somehow dad.

• 41:42Speaker 03

  It wasn't that wild, you know?

• 41:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:44Speaker 03

  Cause it's, yeah, it's just, that's their life. I like, my dad pops up and stuff.

• 41:48Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 41:49Speaker 03

  Sometimes.

• 41:50Josh Horowitz?

  Before I let you go, I do want to mention, because we never really had the official chat about Frankenstein and what a phenomenon that was like, I mean, what a remarkable piece of work from everybody involved. And that takes a lot of people to make it happen. Um, I mean, everybody loves Guillermo. We all love him, like journalists love him. The whole filmmaker, filmmakers, actors love him. Um, you might work with him again, potentially, right? Were you surprised? I mean, not probably not surprised, but like he's, it sounds like he's an actor's director. For someone that's so like, style like oriented, that's a rarity, I think.

• 42:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:21Josh Horowitz?

  Someone that like sees the big picture, but also could be there for the actor.

• 42:24Speaker 03

  Well, he, what's amazing about him is he's, you know, he is in open communion with existence in such an incredible way. You know, he's got so much flow and, and such an incredible lack of pretension.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  And so he, he's very open with the way that he's constantly learning and changing and shifting and moving and letting go of things. And, you know, he could, he can talk about how he was so controlling at one point, you know, about his vision, the thing that he wants to make. And how over the years, he's found a new way, you know, I mean, with Frankenstein, the thing that he's wanted to make for decades and decades. He had so much, um, he would let go so much, which was incredible to watch, you know? He would allow me and I to find the scene. I mean, sometimes it took a long time and we'd go through all sorts of different things. And he would do stuff on the fly, even with a crane that's moving all the way around, but to give the space to allow for that stuff to happen.

• 43:29Speaker 03

  That also was a bit of a new experience for him. And I know he, that, that happened quite a bit with Bradley as well on Nightmare Alley.

• 43:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 43:35Speaker 03

  Um, and that, you know, so he's, he continues to evolve and is very proud of that too, to be like, you know, and, and, and as an example for everyone else to be like, yes, there's, you can. Really have a vision for things.

• 43:49Josh Horowitz?

  And still be open.

• 43:50Speaker 03

  And still know that this is a family outing.

• 43:54Josh Horowitz?

  No, you're right. I mean, he was on the podcast during the tour and I feel like his mantra over the tour was like, the movie tells you what it's going to be.

• 44:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:02Josh Horowitz?

  And that takes like security in your own, because there's ego involved, I think, as for a young filmmaker, right? Like, this is my mission.

• 44:09Speaker 03

  It's a necessary thing early on, I think. I do think.

• 44:14Josh Horowitz?

  Establish your vision.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, there's ambition into like belief and, you know, focus. And after a while, like after a certain point, you know.

• 44:24Josh Horowitz?

  I've proven myself. I've done it.

• 44:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a little embarrassing to be that ambitious and prideful. You know, it's like, it's not really totally up to you. There's a lot of other things that have to happen. And the thing itself is a thing to listen to, like the creation itself. It's not just your own voice that's doing it, you know? And so to see him be such an incredible example of that, you know, and he's still, I mean, he's got very strong opinions of things that work and things that don't work. And, you know, I mean, it was, it's all him too, you know? I mean, there's the way that he puts those things together and the choices that he makes and the way that he directs not only the actors, but the entire production that's happening. It's like an incredible thing to behold.

• 45:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, and I think what the reason that movie worked at the end, they also just the emotion behind it and how people connected with that kind of like that father-son.

• 45:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:11Josh Horowitz?

  Story, like behind all the spectacle, it really is like arguably one of his most, if not his most emotional film.

• 45:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a really true expression of his himself and the things that he loves and things growing up and the things that have caused him a lot of pain. And he found like the biggest expression of those things in that movie.

• 45:29Josh Horowitz?

  So you think Fury's gonna, is that what it's called Fury? Is that gonna happen with Guillermo, the next film?

• 45:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, it could be that, but we also have another thing that we're, you know, we're tinkering with that also, you know? We've got a few things, a few things. I mean, he's my guy. He's like a family member that I just, you know, we found each other.

• 45:48Josh Horowitz?

  Have we let go of the Metal Gear Solid dream? There was, there was a moment where it was gonna be Jordan and you, but now they have these Final Destination filmmakers attached.

• 45:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I didn't even know that. Yeah, it's a, that's a dream for someone else to realize.

• 45:59Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, fair enough.

• 46:01Speaker 03

  But I'm me, you know, I'll always love Hideo Kojima and, you know, maybe one day we'll, we'll do something together.

• 46:08Josh Horowitz?

  Can't do everything. Um, let's end with this. The happy second fuse profoundly random questions for you, Oscar. Are you ready?

• 46:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:15Josh Horowitz?

  Are you a dog or cat person?

• 46:16Speaker 03

  Dog.

• 46:18Josh Horowitz?

  It's that Lou and Davis. I don't know. I guess that, yeah.

• 46:22Speaker 03

  That's why.

• 46:22Josh Horowitz?

  That's exactly the start. Um, what do you collect?

• 46:28Speaker 03

  What do I collect? I guess you could say I collect guitars.

• 46:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:33Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Do you have a favorite video game of all time?

• 46:36Speaker 03

  Um, favorite video game of all time?

• 46:45Speaker 03

  You know what's coming to mind right now? Maybe, I mean, okay, I'm gonna say two things. One, because it's the first thing that came to mind and my cousin passed recently and he was like my brother growing up. And we got into video games together and we had the best time on, um, it's the Star Trek video game on Super Nintendo, was it?

• 47:07Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, I don't remember. I mean, I love Star Trek, but I don't remember the game.

• 47:09Speaker 03

  Okay. And it just, we, it was so much fun he and I had together on this dumb game that we never played again. But we would still reference it up until just a couple of years ago. We would talk about like, remember how much fun we had on that game? We just like went all in and it was, it was like really, it was kind of emotional too. And yeah, that was a great, and then it's just, uh, Street Fighter.

• 47:30Josh Horowitz?

  Street Fighter.

• 47:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:31Josh Horowitz?

  What was your preferred Street Fighter to play?

• 47:33Speaker 03

  Uh, Bison or Guile.

• 47:36Josh Horowitz?

  I keep saying that so seriously.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  It's a serious thing.

• 47:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, sorry.

• 47:41Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, the Dakota Johnson.

• 47:42Speaker 03

  You wanna get in the foxhole with me then?

• 47:43Josh Horowitz?

  In the foxhole with Oscar. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt? That's the Dakota Johnson memorial question.

• 47:49Speaker 03

  Oh, uh, bee in the butt.

• 47:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:53Josh Horowitz?

  What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 47:55Speaker 03

  It's the changing images of my kids and my wife.

• 48:00Josh Horowitz?

  Little bore out.

• 48:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:02Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, last actor you were mistaken for?

• 48:06Speaker 03

  Um.

• 48:08Josh Horowitz?

  Last actor I was mistaken for. You ever show up, there's a a poster of someone else's film?

• 48:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I was mistaken for something and someone like you were in this and I was like, I wasn't in that.

• 48:24Josh Horowitz?

  Then there's that fun conversation.

• 48:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, where they keep telling me that I was in it.

• 48:28Josh Horowitz?

  Damn it, I can't, I can't remember what it was. Okay, you're singular. There's one of one.

• 48:33Speaker 03

  Some Latino.

• 48:36Speaker 03

  Some brown guy.

• 48:39Speaker 03

  I should know. There's a handful of us. One of them.

• 48:43Josh Horowitz?

  What's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 48:48Speaker 03

  It was Diego Luna. I think it was they were, they kept telling me that I was in Andor. And I was like, he's great. I wasn't in it. They're like, but you were great. But I wasn't in it. But you were.

• 48:58Josh Horowitz?

  Cassian, come on.

• 49:01Speaker 03

  Tony Gilman, hey, I wish I was in that.

• 49:04Josh Horowitz?

  You saw Andor right then.

• 49:05Speaker 03

  It's incredible. Come on. It's incredible.

• 49:07Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, last, oh, we did that. Uh, worst note a director has ever given you?

• 49:11Speaker 03

  Worst note?

• 49:14Speaker 03

  Um.

• 49:17Josh Horowitz?

  Worst note?

• 49:19Speaker 03

  Give me a second.

• 49:25Josh Horowitz?

  Go to that happy sad place.

• 49:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:30Speaker 03

  I won't, this, what comes to mind now, I've had quite a few bad notes. What? There was one director that would not give me any notes directly. He would only do it through the A D. Like the, you know, and he, it was like he was some way of punishing me. It was so weird.

• 49:46Josh Horowitz?

  Do you think I could guess it? I'm not gonna guess it, but do you think I could guess it?

• 49:49Speaker 03

  I mean, you could try to guess it. I'm not sure I'd tell you, but you know.

• 49:53Josh Horowitz?

  No, I'm not gonna.

• 49:54Speaker 03

  Uh, but I do remember an audition where the, I was testing with the actor. And the actor was like, uh, decided to pick up the camera himself and be like, you do your monologue and I'm gonna film around you because on the day, there's gonna be cameras there.

• 50:10Josh Horowitz?

  Just so you know, man.

• 50:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was like, I'd done quite a bit of stuff about that point. But I just remember being like, whoa, this sucks.

• 50:18Josh Horowitz?

  So this was like the actor that was already like in the film?

• 50:21Speaker 03

  Cast, yeah. And years later, I got to say to the actor, hey, remember, uh, do you remember that? He's like, uh, I wasn't sober yet. I love you, man. I get it. I'm so sorry.

• 50:31Josh Horowitz?

  You probably don't have to audition anymore. Do you remember the last time you ever had to audition?

• 50:35Speaker 03

  Um, the last time, it was kind of like a, like an ambush audition.

• 50:41Josh Horowitz?

  It was a meeting that turned into like, oh, can you read a few lines?

• 50:43Speaker 03

  It was like, yeah, that it's like, I'm just gonna film you doing this. I was like, oh, okay. I mean, the first, like, the last legitimate, legitimate audition was for a play. It was for Betrayal on Broadway that Mike Nichols was directing.

• 50:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, that's worth doing.

• 50:56Speaker 03

  That was, that was an amazing moment.

• 50:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, that I did not get.

• 51:02Josh Horowitz?

  Um, and then, in the spirit of Happy SecConfused, an actor who always makes you happy, you see them on screen, you're in a better mood. Who is it?

• 51:09Speaker 03

  Oh, um, I mean, I've got so many. Will Ferrell does it for me. Adam Sandler puts me in a good mood. No matter what it's in, it could be the darkest thing ever. I'm just like, I'm with you, man.

• 51:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:26Josh Horowitz?

  When are we gonna manifest the, you guys haven't worked together, Pacino, right? You always talk about Pacino and Dog Day.

• 51:31Speaker 03

  Jules Schnabel, Jules Schnabel.

• 51:32Josh Horowitz?

  You weren't, okay.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 51:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. We weren't in any scenes together.

• 51:36Josh Horowitz?

  Have you seen Dog Day yet? I mean, I know that's an important one.

• 51:38Speaker 03

  I have not seen it yet. Have you?

• 51:40Josh Horowitz?

  I have.

• 51:40Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 51:41Josh Horowitz?

  Berthold's amazing.

• 51:41Speaker 03

  I am, he must be. He's, he's great.

• 51:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, that's big shoes to fill, but he's pretty.

• 51:45Speaker 03

  I'm very, very excited by Quincy, yeah.

• 51:47Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, last two, I promise. A movie that makes you sad?

• 51:51Speaker 03

  Movie that makes me sad? Um, there are lots of movies that make me sad. Um, the last movie that made me sad, was it sad? Les? Well, look, I'm gonna say like the lame one, which is from, because the first one that popped into my head, which was from a long time ago, is a movie called Unfinished Piece for Player Piano.

• 52:09Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, wow.

• 52:10Speaker 03

  Uh, it's, it's an amazing old seventies Russian movie based on Chekhov. Every time I watch it, lots of crying.

• 52:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:17Speaker 03

  But the last movie I cried at was Better Man. The Robbie Williams, it's amazing, that movie. I even called Guillermo, I was like, did you see it? He's like, yes, it's great, it's great. I don't know, it's a full, like, this is, how do people sleep on this movie?

• 52:32Josh Horowitz?

  I know. Well, the monkey probably did it.

• 52:34Speaker 03

  The monkey is what made me cry the most?

• 52:35Josh Horowitz?

  I know.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  Like, I'm like, oh, he thinks he's a, because he's a performing, and he's just a, oh, man, it really got me.

• 52:41Josh Horowitz?

  I love it.

• 52:42Speaker 03

  It really, really got me. I mean, him singing with his dad at the end. I mean, there's like a whole Frankenstein thing happening there, too. I just, uh, I was, I thought it was incredible.

• 52:51Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, a food that makes you confused.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  It makes me confused.

• 52:59Speaker 03

  Uni, every time.

• 53:00Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:01Speaker 03

  Every time.

• 53:01Josh Horowitz?

  That's.

• 53:02Speaker 03

  I still go for it.

• 53:03Josh Horowitz?

  You still do it?

• 53:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, no, I eat it.

• 53:05Josh Horowitz?

  Definition of insanity.

• 53:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, but that's what's confusing me. I'm always like, I'm like, I'm into it. I'm just like.

• 53:12Josh Horowitz?

  It's a little slimy.

• 53:13Speaker 03

  I don't know how I feel afterwards, anytime.

• 53:16Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 53:16Speaker 03

  And then they're like, this one is the really special one. I was like, great, I'll eat it. I'll just feel like.

• 53:20Josh Horowitz?

  It's super expensive. It must be good.

• 53:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 53:25Josh Horowitz?

  That's in your goodie bag on the way out, just like a giant jar of uni.

• 53:29Speaker 03

  Vat of uni.

• 53:30Josh Horowitz?

  We have a huge budget here for that. All right, circling back, I'm letting you go on this. True, earnest congratulations. Beef, season two. By the time people listen and watch this, it is out. Everybody's talking about it. Everybody's going to be talking about it because it is truly, truly, truly special and the best things I've seen in some time. Congratulations and don't let it be another seven years till you're back on the podcast, please.

• 53:55Speaker 03

  Long time.

• 53:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Once you get to the Five Timers Club, you get a free hat. So you've got some work to do.

• 54:00Speaker 03

  Okay, good. I want a free hat. I want a vat of uni for the fifth time.

• 54:04Josh Horowitz?

  You know what? I promise you.

• 54:06Speaker 03

  Please.

• 54:06Josh Horowitz?

  That. It'll break my budget.

• 54:09Speaker 03

  There'll be no more podcasts after that.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  Thanks, Josh. You're the best, man. Thank you.

• 54:17Speaker 04

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't prepared to do this by Josh.

• 54:35Speaker 06

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• 55:19Speaker 06

  It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy.

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  Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts and let's solve this thing together.