Michael Fassbender, Vol. V

Michael Fassbender returns to the podcast (5th time!) and the cause is good this time as he's got an excellent Steven Soderbergh film to promote (BLACK BAG). But there's much more to this chat including a horrible Mad Max audition story, the time he thought he blew his Quentin Tarantino meeting, and more. UPCOMING EVENT! Nathan Lane -- March 20th in New York -- Tickets here Paul Feig -- April 6th in Miami -- ⁠Tickets here!⁠ C2E2 events in Chicago April 12th -- ⁠Tickets here⁠! SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to Quince.com/happysadco for 365 day returns and free shipping! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

  When I arrived in at the audition with Quentin, and first of all, like, he was a massive hero. I had done a play of Reservoir Dogs when I was 18. I told him that. And he was looking at me, and I was like, "We gave the money to charity." And he was like, "Good, man." And he was like, "I don't want people making money out of my shit." And I was like, "Okay." I was like, "I was 18."

• 0:48Speaker 01

  It was in Killarney, you know? It was like, we had, I could sell 140 tickets.

• 0:52Speaker 02

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 1:00Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. A big one today. Returning champion, Michael Fassbender, for the fifth time. Yes, he joins the five timers club on Happy, Sad, Confused. It is a fun conversation. I'm very excited to share with you guys in just a second. But first, lots of stuff to announce. A lot of things going on in the Happy, Sad, Confused universe. Live events. And by the way, all of this stuff, as always, check it out on our Patreon page. That's where you get the early announcements, the discount codes, the merch, the autograph stuff, all the cool things. Patreon.com/happy/sadconfused. Check it out. Give it a whirl. Satisfaction guaranteed. Okay, so, all the information for these live events

• 1:44Josh Horowitz?

  is in the show notes, but let me just run it down for you. March 20th in New York City. We've announced this one previously, but just to remind you guys, Nathan Lane, first time guest on Happy, Sad, Confused. That'll be a blast. Then, we just announced this. This is so cool. We're hitting Miami. Miami is gonna be welcoming Happy, Sad, Confused for a special live event where we screen another simple favor. Yes. The sequel with Lake Lively and Anna Kendrick. And then following that screening, that special early screening, I'll be sitting down with Paul Feig. He's going to be receiving the precious Gem Award from Miami. And and then I'm going to be recording a live Happy Say Confused event with him there. So very cool.

• 2:29Josh Horowitz?

  April 6th, if you happen to be in Florida, if you want to make the trip, come see us there. It's gonna be a blast. Then if you're in Chicago, if you're in the Midwest, come on out to C2E2, guys. I've never, I've been to Chicago, but never to C2E2, which is a very cool con from the same folks who do New York Comic Con. And I'm going to be hosting a bunch of really, really, really cool events there. Um, it all happens on April, wait, let me get this right. April 12th, April 12th, Saturday, April 12th. Uh, four different events I'm going to be hosting.

• 3:07Josh Horowitz?

  The big one, the marquee one and settle in. You ready for this? 40th anniversary of The Breakfast Club with the entire gang. I believe this is the first time they've all gathered together. Emilio Estevez doesn't do this thing, this kind of thing. He's doing it for us. Apparently I've heard, by the way, through the grapevine that he's a fan of Happy Say Confused. That's pretty awesome. Never met Emilio. Anyway, um, yeah, Molly Ringwald, Ali Shidi, Judd Nelson, Anthony Michael Hall and Emilio gathering for the first time in 40 years. Epic, epic. Uh, I mean, I think they reunited maybe, I think actually at MTV Movie or Video Music Awards at one time. But this kind of event is very rare.

• 3:52Josh Horowitz?

  So cool. Uh, also I'll be sitting down with John Boyega. Love John, he's done the podcast before. Uh, I'm going to be talking to a couple of the folks from Once Upon a Time, uh, including Lana Perilla and a couple others, Rebecca Mater. And Sean McGuire, I believe as well is going to be on that panel. And I'm also going to be chatting, and this is one that's making my, my nerd heart very happy. Um, Peter Weller and Nancy Travis to talk Robocop.

• 4:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah. So that one's for me. I mean, they're all for me, but that one's like, that's in my bones, Robocop. Come on. So if you're in Chicago, if you want to make plans, make it a trip. Get your tickets now. C2E2. They've got a lot of other very cool folks who are going to be out there. I think Sam Heughan's actually going to be out there. I'm going to try to connect with Sam while I'm there. Anyway, that's a lot, and there's more to come. All right. Well, let's talk about Michael Fassbender for a second, because Michael is one of those rare five timers now, unhappy, sad, confused, and I always love chatting with him.

• 4:58Josh Horowitz?

  We are very, we have very, very similar reference points and likes. And I think that's part of why I've always enjoyed chatting with him. I think we're almost exactly a year apart in age. Both grew up obsessed with like 80s stupid TV shows like Knight Rider and Hard Castle and McCormick. Both can can quote Bayne Lebowski backwards and forwards. The only difference is that I host a podcast and he's one of the most charismatic movie and TV stars on the planet. But besides that, we're basically twins. But this is, this is a really fun one. We are chatting about, among other things, his reunion with Steven Soderbergh. You'll remember he was in Haywire about 15 years ago.

• 5:41Josh Horowitz?

  This new film is Black Bag. It's really great. It's getting fantastic reviews and justifiably so. It's him and Cate Blanchett, Naomi Harris, Ray G. Jean Page. And it's kind of a twisty, turny whodunit of sorts about spies and Cate Blanchett and Michael are a married couple.

• 6:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, kind of less you know the better, but this is like a really riveting, smart script by David Koep, one of the best screenwriters, most accomplished screenwriters of the last 30 years. So yeah, check that movie out. I think you guys will dig it. And anyway, Michael and I, of course, cover a lot of other things. We hit some of the. Famous best, uh, you know, films of his career, whether it's, you know, Inglourious Basterds, the X-Men films, um, but also talk a lot of fun audition stories, including one that I'd never heard him talk about. It's probably the first time maybe he's ever spoken about it. Um, but I'd heard that he auditioned way back when for Mad Max and, um, got the, got the dirt from him on what happened and it's a, it's a fun story. So stay tuned for that, among other things. Um, I think that's about it. Oh, I guess I'll just mention this.

• 6:46Josh Horowitz?

  Sorry this intro is so long. You can skip past it though. You know, but here's a pet peeve. Folks that get angry at me. I see the comment. I see occasionally a comment be like, he's talking too much during the intro. There's a fast forward button. I'm aware of this. I listen to podcasts too. I watch YouTube. I know there's an ability to literally just like move the thing over. If you don't want to hear me droning on and on, this is a free country. Oh my God. This is all free, guys. What's, what, what are we complaining for? Anyway, there's my rant. You saw the dark side. I apologize. What was I talking about? Um, oh, oh, I wanted to just mention, um, I got a chance to host a really fun event

• 7:26Josh Horowitz?

  in Los Angeles a couple of days ago. Um, HBO asked me to moderate their F Y C panel for House of the Dragon, um, which was a great honor. Um, obviously I've done stuff with Matt Smith and Emma Darcy, uh, did a New York Comic Con event with Tom Gunn Carney and Fabian Frankel. So, um, it was great to see all of them together. They had really not seen each other in a long time. Uh, also Olivia Cook, who I'd done stuff with way back when, but hadn't seen for a while. Um, and had never met like the showrunners, Ryan uh, and Sarah, uh, Steve Dusant, hadn't met him. So, um, oh, and Ewan Mitchell, who

• 8:09Josh Horowitz?

  seemed lovely, ran into him a few times at the hotel. Nice guy. And what a great performance in the show. Anyway, um, I don't know, there's, there's talk that this may turn into a happy second fuse. I have to actually investigate. I think they captured it on video. Um, so stay tuned for that. Hopefully I'll be able to share that with you guys as an actual happy second fuse episode because it was a really, it was a really special, uh, thing and a rare thing for the cast to gather together. Um, and, uh, they're about to go into production very soon, like. Very soon on season three. So some small teases for season three as well. Okay, that's it. That was a lot. I apologize. But again, you can just fast forward, guys,

• 8:53Josh Horowitz?

  if you don't want to hear from me and just want to get to the fastbender. Okay. By the way, thanks, everyone, for all the great responses to Hans Zimmer. Maybe we'll do more composers. You guys seem to enjoy that one. I did too. So thank you for that. Okay. Michael Fassbender, main event, Happy Second Fuse. Please enjoy it. It was great also to see him in person, by the way. And if you like Fassbender, if you like Steven Soderbergh, if you like good movies, check out Black Bag. It is about to hit theaters March 14th, something like that. It's about to be in theaters. So check it out. And enjoy my chat with Michael Fassbender. Michael Fassbender in person?

• 9:28Speaker 01

  I know.

• 9:29Josh Horowitz?

  I don't think I've seen you in physical form in 1,000 years. You exist.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  When was the last time?

• 9:34Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, pre-pandemic.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  I'm gonna say 2016.

• 9:37Josh Horowitz?

  Don't even say that. That's, that's

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Just throw it out there.

• 9:39Josh Horowitz?

  Would make me sad.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  I think it could be.

• 9:41Josh Horowitz?

  It's good to see you, though, as always.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  It's good to see you.

• 9:44Josh Horowitz?

  You have a lot going on. We're spreading the good word of Black Bag, Steven Soderbergh. The team's back together.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  The team's back together. It took, well, 15 years ago. Yeah, we last worked together.

• 9:54Josh Horowitz?

  I know. Okay, so we're gonna get to that. But first, you're, I was saying, you've been in New York for a minute.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 9:59Josh Horowitz?

  How's, is it all press? Are you taking any culture, any, anything?

• 10:04Speaker 01

  Yesterday, I went to a place where you hit, like, golf balls into a screen.

• 10:09Josh Horowitz?

  That's culture. That's

• 10:10Speaker 01

  I thought it was pretty good. It was cultural.

• 10:13Josh Horowitz?

  You're a golfer.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  I am a golfer. Obviously, you're not a golfer.

• 10:20Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I'm a miniature golfer.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  What was, you know what that was from?

• 10:23Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Obviously, you're not a golfer.

• 10:25Josh Horowitz?

  No, I missed the reference.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 10:27Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, I failed you already. Wait, give it to me. What is it?

• 10:30Speaker 01

  There's a bowling ball.

• 10:31Josh Horowitz?

  Cape'n?

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  Big Lebowski.

• 10:35Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, your go-to. Damn it!

• 10:36Speaker 01

  What the fuck is this? Obviously, you're not a golfer.

• 10:40Josh Horowitz?

  Right, of course.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  Does it look like I'm married? The toilet seat is up. Anyway.

• 10:45Josh Horowitz?

  There is no anyway. I was gonna ask you to do your one-man Lebowski, so we're off to the races already.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  Oh, you are? Okay, good.

• 10:51Josh Horowitz?

  You've never done theater here in New York, have you?

• 10:56Speaker 01

  I haven't. In fact, I haven't done much theater at all professionally, just in my bedroom. No, I did a play right out of drama school, and then I did a play in Edinburgh Festival.

• 11:11Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  And that was the last time. That was 2006.

• 11:16Josh Horowitz?

  There's no hankering? There's no...

• 11:18Speaker 01

  You know, I have been thinking about it actually recently, that, yeah, I'd like to go back to it at some point again.

• 11:25Josh Horowitz?

  It's on my list for you. I know you want to know what's on my list for you, what my goals for you are.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:30Josh Horowitz?

  One of them is to do theater here in New York.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  You know what I thought would have been, would make a great play is Steve Jobs, actually. I'm putting it out there.

• 11:39Josh Horowitz?

  A million percent.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Aaron Sorkin, if you're listening, watching.

• 11:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, he's a big fan.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  I think it would be, it would be a great stage play.

• 11:47Josh Horowitz?

  And you want to be the man for the, have you done it already? It's in your head.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  I've done it already. It's there somewhere. Although, having said that, I was just, you know, talking about this yesterday. It's amazing how I forget lines so quickly.

• 12:01Josh Horowitz?

  And yet, Wabowski's there forever, with your own lines.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  There's certain things, and Fletch is there forever. You know, certain things have just stuck. But the stuff that I've actually done personally, I find it very hard to recall lines that I've done.

• 12:16Josh Horowitz?

  Are you a Fletch Libs fan, or just the original Fletch?

• 12:18Speaker 01

  The original.

• 12:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, Fletch Libs, The Plantation, Things Weird, there's some...

• 12:22Speaker 01

  There's some scenes that are good, you know, the bend over scene and stuff comes to mind. But no, the first one is absolute classic. Could be like one of my favorite of that era, actually. I think Chevy Chase, at that time, was just king of the sort of throwaway one-liners.

• 12:40Josh Horowitz?

  Totally. So what, in a nutshell, what is the genius of Wabowski? Is it Jeff's performance? Is it...

• 12:48Speaker 01

  I think it's one of those things, because I remember, at the time, the reviews weren't great, right? And then I ended up watching it, it might have even been videocassette then, I have no idea, or DVD. What I love about it, I guess first and foremost, is that I just had no idea what was coming next.

• 13:07Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  You know, it's so much, you know, when you're watching a film, there's a familiarity there where you kind of know what the trajectory is going to be.

• 13:16Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  And I just had no idea.

• 13:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  What comes next. And the idea, you know, that this guy's signing a check for a carton of milk, just the opening of it, the writing, the characters, and then on sort of, you know, watching it sort of again and again, you just pick up each, you know, little details each time along the way.

• 13:37Josh Horowitz?

  What's the favorite moment in the film? I'm thinking back, there's one moment that always, I remember seeing it the first time, it was just, I'll tell you mine.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, you tell yours.

• 13:46Josh Horowitz?

  So when he, Jackie Treehorn has just like left the conversation and he scratches down and discovers what he's been...

• 13:53Speaker 01

  That is excellent, but there's so many, when they go to see, "You're killing your father, Larry."

• 14:00Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  You know, that whole sequence to then...

• 14:03Josh Horowitz?

  This is what happens.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  This is what happens, Larry, you know, right to the sequence when then they're in the car and the window's sort of, you know, gone in the front and the wind's blowing in, they're eating In-N-Out burgers.

• 14:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  And that whole sequence is pretty great, but all of it's sort of gold dust for me, I absolutely love it.

• 14:22Josh Horowitz?

  Do you tend to go back and re-watch movies or explore new movies, just in your day-to-day enjoyment? Because when, I actually caught up with Alicia back at Toronto, and she said that you guys have respective kind of running lists of movies to watch. Do you have a list that's kind of like top of mind?

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I was, the other night, actually, I was just sort of gonna watch something before going to sleep, and I was trying to get the French connection.

• 14:44Josh Horowitz?

  Honor of Mr. The late, great Gene Hackman.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And just, you know, I've just, I don't know how I stumbled across it, but I was watching sort of these Billy Friedkin sort of interviews about shooting it and the whole process and, you know, the casting of Gene Hackman and how they, he didn't, you know, at one point Gene Hackman wandered out, I think pretty early on.

• 15:08Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  Didn't think, you know, he was right for the part and... And was sort of forever grateful to Freakin' for convincing him to stay.

• 15:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  And then the fact that they didn't have any permits.

• 15:19Josh Horowitz?

  I know, they always talk about the The car chase. The car chase that was really totally illegal and could have gotten everybody killed, basically.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  I know, and you just think, God, you know, that was the days of sort of, well, health and safety hadn't sort of been introduced.

• 15:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  So I do revisit like old films like there. I watched again in the space of like six months. Twice I watched Once Upon a Time in America again.

• 15:42Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, wow.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Sometimes I just go back to

• 15:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  You know, the sort of the classics.

• 15:48Josh Horowitz?

  Do you ever look at, one of my favorite annual traditions, speaking of like rewatching or watching stuff, is Soderbergh's list of all the media he consumed over a year. Do you know he does this?

• 15:56Speaker 01

  No.

• 15:57Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, you have to check this out. Every year, he keeps a running log of every book, TV show, movie he watches and consumes, and then publishes it on like he has a website. And it's fascinating. I mean, you know the man.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:12Josh Horowitz?

  He, and it's like Real Housewives, Star Wars, and like Tarkovsky. It's like every possible thing that he

• 16:19Speaker 01

  That's amazing, yeah.

• 16:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  I mean, he's such a brilliant mind. And always just so interesting to sort of, you know, have conversations with him, you know, and he's quite quiet on set.

• 16:31Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  But, you know, anytime you sort of, you know, go to him and approach him and ask him anything, he's just sort of wide open.

• 16:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Super generous and

• 16:41Speaker 01

  it was a real joy. I get to get back working with him again. Just the sort of atmosphere he sets on set. And just the way he approaches the work, you know, and the fact that he's lighting, you know, operating the camera most of the time.

• 16:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I was gonna say that. So for people that don't know, this is, I mean, that's as unusual as it gets. I don't know if you've ever worked with another filmmaker that's operated their own camera, but

• 17:04Speaker 01

  I have, yeah, sometimes. I'm trying to think who it was.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  But it's not like a regular thing.

• 17:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right, this is, he does virtually everything.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  He does everything except the wheels. He says he doesn't like that. There's probably a correct term.

• 17:20Josh Horowitz?

  No, you do that, that's all you do.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Wheels of steel.

• 17:23Josh Horowitz?

  So how did that change the dynamic? Because often I talk to actors that like, you know, you get, you form a relationship with the camera operator, the A-Cam.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 17:31Josh Horowitz?

  And this is your director. So I don't know, just how does that inform your relationship with your camera operator who happens to be your director when it's Steven Soderbergh?

• 17:40Speaker 01

  I guess it's just one less person to develop a relationship with, really.

• 17:44Josh Horowitz?

  True, yeah.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  But you're absolutely right. I always like, find that you do develop a relationship with the person behind the camera. You know, I guess there's different schools of thought. I like to always sort of acknowledge that the camera is there rather than pretend it's not, and to sort of, you know, establish that relationship. And then, you know, to sort of be able to technically, for focus pullers as well, like, give them little tells to allow them to know that you're going to move a certain way.

• 18:14Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, wow.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  Because it becomes a sort of dance between you.

• 18:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  That space between you. I really enjoy that, you know, that's sort of the technical aspect of that. And with Steven, you know, you just feel his sort of energy behind the camera. It's, he just sort of gives, at the beginning, I guess, on day one, you're a little bit like, oh my god, was, is he happy? Or, because we're moving on now after two or three takes, is he just thinking, that's the best I'm gonna get out of this guy?

• 18:41Josh Horowitz?

  After you've done Fincher, you're like, wait.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly. And you know, I always think of the two of them because they're good friends.

• 18:48Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  They're actually very similar in the sense that I always sort of do this analogy, I don't know, it was probably because it's the only thing that I know outside of acting. It's like, I think of it like a kitchen.

• 18:59Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  And it's like, both those guys are sort of, would have started off washing pots.

• 19:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  And then worked their way through the different stations in a kitchen, and now they're executive chefs.

• 19:11Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  You know, but they have a very deep understanding of how to make a film.

• 19:18Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Each department within, within a filming process have a language for each department, and an overall, an overall understanding of cinema.

• 19:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  And the history of cinema. But very different ways of executing.

• 19:33Josh Horowitz?

  Kind of be more different. I mean, you've, I mean, when you look at your filmography, the- From Malik to those two guys, I mean, it's all over the map. And clearly, you get something out of every kind of collaboration. Because I was also thinking, like, we were talking about, you know, Steven operating the camera. You've probably worked with directors where it's like, they're in video village, they're like, clear on the other end.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Like Ridley, Ridley, you know, would sit in the tent and there's five cameras going.

• 19:59Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  And he's sitting there like a general going, you know, A camera, you know, move down, pan in, move to, you know, B camera tilt to, you know, to the right a little bit. And it's incredible to watch. And again, all of them are very generous. So, you know, they'll share whatever, you know, their experience is with you. And I love that, you know, you sort of, when you jump on board, you follow the vision of the director.

• 20:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  And one of the proudest sort of moments for me was actually introducing Malik to Ridley.

• 20:31Josh Horowitz?

  Come on.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  You know, because we were doing promotion for Alien Covenant, South by Southwest. And Terrence obviously lives in Austin.

• 20:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  So I was like, come around to the hotel room, you know. And they were sitting there like this, you know, Ridley and Terrence Malick of that same generation, but very different ways of filming and the process of filming.

• 20:53Josh Horowitz?

  I couldn't imagine, like, Ridley, I mean, you know, he's the alpha in every room, but like, does he have a little deference to?

• 21:04Speaker 01

  It was interesting to see because obviously there's, you know, you know, respect there between them.

• 21:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  But again, just very different storytellers, you know.

• 21:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Let's follow this butterfly for the next 10 hours.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  But, yeah, you know, but again, what I found, you know, it's always interesting to find the similarities. Both of them have just unbelievable reservoirs of energy.

• 21:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  You know, it's, there's something about, I guess, that post-World War II generation.

• 21:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Where their fathers had proven themselves in the highest sort of, you know, extreme circumstances you could imagine. And they have that drive to work and just sort of.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Amazing to think that they don't get tired.

• 21:51Josh Horowitz?

  I know, I mean, it's an inspiration.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's very similar between both of them.

• 21:56Josh Horowitz?

  Is, um, yeah, I mean, in a career of like surreal moments is like being part of Alien, those films, being directed by Ridley, being on those sets, seeing things that are reminiscent of stuff that you grew up watching, is that pretty high up there?

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Definitely, I mean, you know, when I sort of got cast in Prometheus, I was, I think I was shooting some stuff for shame, and it was actually Steve McQueen, he was like, "You've got to enjoy yourself, you know, you've got to enjoy it."

• 22:24Josh Horowitz?

  Take this then.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  And that kind of resonated with me, I was like, "At the end of the day, I've really got to, you know, enjoy this."

• 22:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  And, um, and it was, you know, again, first day on set with Ridley, just great little notes and very actor friendly, I didn't, I didn't have imagined that going into it, you know, that he would be like that, but he is very much like that.

• 22:47Josh Horowitz?

  Did I ever tell you, I had a conversation once with Christopher Walken for a movie, and he ended up spending most of the interview talking about the end of Prometheus with me.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Really?

• 22:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yes, I have to get you this tape, because you would, you would really appreciate it on so many levels, he, I'm not going to do my Walken, but he basically was like, "Where did that alien come from at the end? It was albino, what was it? I'm trying to understand it, so I think you need to talk to Christopher Walken, explain the end of Prometheus," is what I'm saying.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  I've got to, I can just imagine him saying all those things, he was on a flight in front of me from Montreal to New York, and through the whole flight, I was like, "Oh my god, I've got to, I've got to approach him, I've got to..."

• 23:27Josh Horowitz?

  What's your opener, what's your, what do you do?

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Well, we were leaving the plane, I was just like, "Excuse me, you know, Christopher, Christopher, Chris." I was just like, you know, I'm a big fan, you know, and he was like, "Oh, thanks," he didn't know who I was, you know, but I was, it was, it was a real moment, I was very starstruck.

• 23:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  He's incredible.

• 23:45Josh Horowitz?

  Deer Hunter, Dead Zone, Where Do We Go, True Romance, all, I mean...

• 23:49Speaker 01

  You know, him reading fairy tales, you know, in Saturday Night Live, or whatever that is.

• 23:54Josh Horowitz?

  The Continental, oh my god, that, yeah.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  Oh, you know, just, just great, and he was, um, actually working with Jeffrey Wright, Jeffrey Wright had done Shakespeare in the Park with him here in New York, and he said it was, it's, still remains... The best thing he's ever seen, watching Christopher Walken doing Shakespeare. He said it was, it sounded like he was just coming out with the language there and there, you know, there and then on the spot.

• 24:28Josh Horowitz?

  You guys know the best stuff in your closet is the stuff that you actually wear, right? The things that you just keep coming back to, whether you're going to work, you're going out, you're just hanging around. Well, with the holidays coming up, Quince makes it really easy to find great gifts for everyone on your list. This year, I'm doing a lot of my holiday shopping at Quince, and yes, that includes a few things for myself. That's okay, right? One of the things I love about Quince is that you're getting really high-quality stuff without spending a fortune. Their cashmere sweaters start at just 60 bucks, and they've got everything from great down jackets and wool coats to cashmere scarves and accessories. Basically, everything you need to stay warm and look good this winter. And they're using really premium materials at Quince. We're talking at 100% Mongolian cashmere, Italian leather, even 14-karat gold.

• 25:12Josh Horowitz?

  These are the kinds of things that make great gifts, but also that make people actually use them, right? And wear long after the holidays. And here's the best part. Quince prices everything 50 to 80% less than similar brands. How did they do it? Well, they work directly with ethical factories, and they cut out the middlemen. So you're getting that luxury quality without paying those crazy luxury prices. I love how functional and fashionable all my Quince stuff is. I've got a cashmere hoodie that is honestly invaluable and actually makes me look like I know what I'm talking about when it comes to fashion, and that is a miracle. So give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.

• 25:56Josh Horowitz?

  It's now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you've heard about them, you know what to do. Let them know it was happy, sad, confused. That's the best way to support our show. If I had a dollar for everybody in my life who's benefited from therapy, I would be a very, very rich man. Therapy has certainly helped me, especially when I was a confused teenager. And thankfully, that's not a shameful thing to say anymore, right? It's okay to seek help and need help and talk about it. We're all doing our best. We're just trying to get by, right, guys? Unfortunately, the reality is that getting help is still harder than it should be. That's why I'm thrilled always to have Rula as a sponsor of Happy Say Confuse, because it's very obvious to me that online therapy should be both accessible and affordable for everybody.

• 26:41Josh Horowitz?

  So let's make it easy for anybody who wants help to get help. That's where Rula comes in. Here's the thing a lot of online therapy platforms don't actually talk about. Most don't take insurance. That means you're either paying out of pocket or signing up for some very expensive monthly subscription. Rula does it all differently. They work with over 120 insurance plans. So the average copay, I can't get over this. It's just 15 bucks a session. So basically, two of your lattes, okay? A pretty good deal, if you ask me. That means you can get real therapy from a licensed professional without breaking the bank. And Rula doesn't just set you up and leave you alone. They give you that therapist and then they're along the way, the whole journey with you, to make sure your care is working for you and you're actually making progress, hitting your goals.

• 27:26Josh Horowitz?

  This can all happen right away, guys. With Rula, appointments are often available as soon as tomorrow. There are no wait lists. There's no frustrating back and forth. They make it easy. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit rula.com/happy to get started. That's rula, R-U-L-A dot com slash happy. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget.

• 27:55Josh Horowitz?

  All right, so circling back to this experience, re-teaming with Soderbergh after nearly 15 years. That's gotta be a nice validation. It's one thing to cast you the first time, like, let's take a shot on this Michael Fassbender. But clearly, he enjoyed the experience. Have you guys, had you guys discussed other projects since, before Black Bag came up?

• 28:12Speaker 01

  We'd always sort of, you know, over through the years, been in contact. But, you know, it's just one of those things, nothing really sort of landed at the right time and the right place.

• 28:24Josh Horowitz?

  Was it very clear when you get the script and you have this conversation, this is gonna be it?

• 28:29Speaker 01

  It happens very fast. He just was like, hey, what's up, home slice? He was like, got this thing for you.

• 28:36Josh Horowitz?

  Big Juno fan, yeah, okay. He was like. Didn't figure that one, but a sore.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  He was like, got this thing, take a look at it, you know, what do you think? And then I emailed back the next day and I was like, I'm in. It was a very short, you know, emails back and forth.

• 28:50Josh Horowitz?

  It shouldn't all be that easy.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  I know. And then it all happened really fast. Then we were on set a couple of months later and, or three months later and we were shooting. It was.

• 29:02Josh Horowitz?

  What did you click into? What was about the script? This is, it's basically.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  David Koep is like so great. I mean, I just, it was like, you just start, I just started reading it immediately. I was intrigued again, curious to see what was happening next. There's a real propulsion to the script.

• 29:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  And the characters, I could all, I could see all of them very clearly. You know, they were very well considered. And it was just obviously, you know, really intelligent and funny. And it just moved, I just moved fast through it.

• 29:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  And then the idea of, you know, Steven bringing his visual touch to it and vision. I was like, yeah, it was, it was a very quick decision, you know? And I think that was the same with everyone.

• 29:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's quite a cast. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's like Mr. and Mrs. Smith with more dinner parties, basically. That's, that's the shorthand.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Exactly. It's like Poirot meets Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

• 29:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's a bit of that. It's rather being a weird way of like, I don't know if you ever saw Death Trap? Like, I don't know, there's some kind of like chamber drama aspect of it in a way. It feels like there's elements that could play as a play, like, I mean, extended sequences.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 30:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  Absolutely. You know, I, I thought about that a lot. And what I also thought was like, you know, this genre is, obviously there's a lot going on in this genre at the moment.

• 30:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  There's a lot out there. And what I thought was interesting and, you know, we have a sort of lack of these days is that kind of film in that sort of budget zone. For an adult sort of audience, you know, where it is entering into this sort of espionage universe, but it's really the intellectual warfare that's going on.

• 30:38Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  And also what's happening internally in this organization as opposed to an external enemy, it's happening from within.

• 30:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  And one of the suspects on the list is George's wife.

• 30:50Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Who played George, Woodhouse. It is Woodhouse, isn't it?

• 30:53Josh Horowitz?

  It is, I believe. It's been a minute. You should know.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  You should know. Makes me think of Snoopy.

• 31:02Josh Horowitz?

  That's the next project.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Is there a Woodhouse in Peanuts?

• 31:05Josh Horowitz?

  Sure, let's go with that.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Is there? No, it's Woodhouse is in The Simpsons, no?

• 31:10Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know, you have children that watch cartoons, not me.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  Sorry.

• 31:18Josh Horowitz?

  But no, there's something very pleasurable in watching like, you know, half a dozen intelligent characters really kind of like play this game of wits, battle of wits together.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  That's right, and there's something also interesting about somebody who's not intelligent trying to look intelligent. No, it is that sort of battle of the wits, you know, and it's a real whodunit. You know, I think throughout, when I was certainly reading the script and then, you know, watching the film, it really does have that where you're second guessing all the time, right up to the end.

• 31:52Josh Horowitz?

  Do you fancy a dinner party? Do you?

• 31:56Speaker 01

  I don't think I'll get invited to dinner parties.

• 31:58Josh Horowitz?

  This might ruin the.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  After this movie, seeing that I'm drugging my guests.

• 32:02Josh Horowitz?

  It's the key to a great dinner party.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  27, whatever the hell it is that I put in the Chana Masala, doesn't exist, by the way.

• 32:09Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, good to know.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, because we were like, what is that serum that gets people to tell the truth? And, you know, Stephen, of course, did his research, thankfully, because I didn't. And he was like, it doesn't exist. So like, you know, they were saying, you just should make something up. So that's where we made up DC, whatever, 17, I can't remember.

• 32:28Josh Horowitz?

  I bet in your illustrious, fabulous celebrity life, you've ended up at a dinner party and been like, oh my God, I'm sitting next to this person, oh my God, they're at this, in this room with me. Does anything pop to mind?

• 32:39Speaker 01

  I suppose, you know, meeting musicians.

• 32:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  And Christopher Walken.

• 32:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. That was a plane, that wasn't a dinner party.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  That was a dinner, but we were sitting down next to each other, although he was in front of me. I was looking at the back of his head. Strange dinner party, yeah. I'm trying to think of dinners. Yeah, I guess I've been, you know, at galas where there's certain, you know.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  I'm not, I can't think, I can't think of any. I remember meeting Laird Hamilton.

• 33:10Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Which was a big thing.

• 33:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  And Michael Schumacher was a big moment for me.

• 33:19Josh Horowitz?

  So it's usually folks outside, with Walken as an exception, it's usually musicians, athletes.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  I guess, you know, meeting Robert De Niro, you know, it happens a lot. You know, working with Quentin Tarantino, you know, doing a scene with John Malkovich and that Criterion classic Jonah Hicks. I don't know if you've ever seen it.

• 33:38Josh Horowitz?

  I have seen it, I covered that one. You weren't at the Dunkey, man.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  I was there, but I wasn't there. No, no, no.

• 33:44Josh Horowitz?

  What's the greatest thing that came out of your experience on Jonah Hicks?

• 33:49Speaker 01

  You know, I love, you know, working with Josh.

• 33:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, he's fun.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, and John Malkovich.

• 33:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  That was a real moment, you know, I've been such a huge fan for a long time. To be in a scene with him, and he's so softly spoken, and then he goes into like a rage. And then they're like cut, and he's like, when you're in Paris, where do you like to stay? He's just like, you know, garrotted somebody or something. And then, you know, Richard Gere recently, you know, being on a set with somebody like. It's happened a lot in my sort of working career where I'm on set with the likes of Steven Soderbergh.

• 34:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  You know, Ridley Scott and Quentin Tarantino, you know, where I'm definitely pinching myself and.

• 34:29Josh Horowitz?

  What's been the most nervous you've been in an audition over the years?

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Wow, I messed up so many auditions, if there's like. Young or old actors out there that, you know, struggle with it. I struggle with it so much.

• 34:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I always, like, I hated the chit-chat in an audition.

• 34:50Josh Horowitz?

  Right, let's just get to it.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  Which is designed to sort of, you know, relax you.

• 34:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  It did the opposite for me, you know. I was like, oh, I just don't care about, you know, I just wanted to get into what I had sort of rehearsed at home.

• 35:00Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  So I've always kind of, and even like on set, on, you know, this film, whatever I'm doing, I'm always operating from a place of self-doubt.

• 35:12Josh Horowitz?

  Still.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's like, I don't know if it's an Irish thing.

• 35:16Josh Horowitz?

  I don't think it is. I think it's an actor, every actor, I, this always comes up about like, when does it go away? It never goes away. Maybe Denzel Washington, like, I don't know. Who, who never doubts themselves.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 35:28Josh Horowitz?

  It's a little depressing, but I guess it keeps you sharp.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  You know, it, it, it's just the way it is for me, and I guess it means I care.

• 35:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  You know, and it's just that thing, and then when you start, you're in front of the camera, and then you start going and doing it.

• 35:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Then, you know, those things sort of dissipate sometimes. But, but no, I always kind of operate from that sort of place of insecurity, I guess.

• 35:53Josh Horowitz?

  Right. So, okay.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  In my life as well.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  As a father, I'm like, is that the right thing to do?

• 36:03Josh Horowitz?

  Speaking of auditions, here's one that we've never discussed before. It came up in a book I read about the making of Fury Road. Did you audition for George Miller?

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Yes. Oh my God, that was one of the worst auditions recent, I mean, recent, that was back in-

• 36:17Josh Horowitz?

  Probably 12 years ago.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. But thankfully, I haven't had to audition in a while.

• 36:22Josh Horowitz?

  Can we relive that for a second? What was it like?

• 36:24Speaker 01

  Oh my God, it was awful. First of all, it was before, you know, I'm always trying to sort of thinking, could I get rid of my, you know, my phone, my smartphone? And then I'm thinking, for the one reason that I need Google Maps.

• 36:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  It's like, I, my sense of direction is terrible.

• 36:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  So bad that like, if my intuition says go right, I go the opposite way. And so I was, I was going to like Warner Brothers in the valley, not, not complicated. I had those printouts, you know, on the seat next to me in the car, you know, take a left here, or whatever, you know? And I got lost. And I ended up getting to the audition almost like an hour late. And so I was not in the correct headspace. They were kinda like-

• 37:09Josh Horowitz?

  Just like Max. Max was not a good driver.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  I know, I should've been more like Max where I'm like, whatever, you know? But I arrived and I was like, "I'm so sorry." And they were like, "Fine." And then George Miller has this acting coach.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  And it was like, it was so excruciating. You know, I had gone to, I've gone to, you know, I've been classically trained. So, you know, I, you know, I have my process of, obviously, there's an objective that the character has and activities that I'm gonna play to get it. So I felt like, you know, you're teaching your granny how to suck eggs here. This guy really got on my nerves. And he was like, "I want you to say this phrase, 'Get out of the room,' but I want you to physicalize it, Michael." He was like, "Get out of the room. Get out of the room." So I was like, "Get out of the room. Get out of the room."

• 38:02Josh Horowitz?

  They're like, "No, you don't have to do the ham thing. I do the ham thing."

• 38:04Speaker 01

  He was like, "What are you doing?" And I was like, "Oh, I was doing the 'get out of the room' and physicalize it." It was, it was so, I couldn't wait to get out of there.

• 38:12Josh Horowitz?

  So-

• 38:12Speaker 01

  And obviously, I didn't get the part.

• 38:13Josh Horowitz?

  That didn't go further after that day?

• 38:15Speaker 01

  No, no, obviously, you know, Tom Hardy got the part, and deservedly so.

• 38:20Josh Horowitz?

  Speaking of Tom Hardy, so you are contemporary. So here's, I found this very telling. He talked about how, you guys went to school together, drama school.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  We went to drama school together, yeah.

• 38:29Josh Horowitz?

  And how that-

• 38:30Speaker 01

  I think he was a year behind, or maybe even two years behind.

• 38:32Josh Horowitz?

  I think he said that you were two years ahead.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Two years ahead, yeah.

• 38:34Josh Horowitz?

  And this is striking to me, because I think of Tom Hardy as, you know, extreme, eccentric, in the best possible way. I mean, I love Tom. I really do. Truly. But he's talking about you in drama school as the guy that was extreme.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was.

• 38:48Josh Horowitz?

  Like, he was like, you were doing a play, you were in a wheelchair, and you stayed in the wheelchair-

• 38:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:53Josh Horowitz?

  Outside of the play.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was very much like that when I was younger. Now I'm not like that at all. But I was very much, you know, into, you know, the method. The Actors Studio here was kinda like the Mecca for me. I would've loved to have come here and studied in New York. But, but yeah, I used to very much like, you know, think, you know, live in it, you know, live and breathe the character all the time while you're in it. And then, you know, as I sort of left that drama school and got into sort of, you know, working-

• 39:24Speaker 01

  Professionally, I then just sort of tailored my own

• 39:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  style. And now I prefer to sort of go in and out, you know, and to be able to step in and out of it.

• 39:33Josh Horowitz?

  Also, self-preservation as a human being.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  Yes, 100%.

• 39:36Josh Horowitz?

  Like, if you're doing something like Shame, like, oh my god, you don't want to be in that headspace.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was definitely the darkest one, you know, that there were the residue sort of lasted a while with that. But I guess because the way I was working as well, I was jumping from one project to the next. I used to do three, four films a year sometimes. Yeah. It was kind of, it wasn't by design. It just, you'd sign up for something, it gets delayed, and next thing you know, they're all sort of back to back. And so just for self-preservation.

• 40:03Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and also, you know, to sort of keep friendships. You know, I didn't want to, you know, if you're meeting friends for dinner.

• 40:10Josh Horowitz?

  They don't want to meet the guy from Shame.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Henry the, you know, eighth is coming in again, you know, here we go. It's gonna get messy.

• 40:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  The guy from Shame arrives at the dinner tables hitting on everyone's wife. Not a good look.

• 40:23Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I kind of made that sort of transition, you know.

• 40:27Josh Horowitz?

  Thank goodness for your kids. They don't, yeah, they don't want to see the characters you've played at home.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. When can they watch my films?

• 40:36Josh Horowitz?

  Have you, like, speaking of auditions, like, I don't think, did you audition for X-Men or even Inglourious?

• 40:42Speaker 01

  I did audition for X-Men.

• 40:43Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, you did?

• 40:44Speaker 01

  And I did audition for Inglourious.

• 40:45Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, I'm wrong, okay.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  I auditioned for X-Men and James was there and was so generous and great. It was a huge help for me.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  And, yeah, he was already cast. So I came in, auditioned for Eric, we did a couple of scenes together and...

• 41:02Josh Horowitz?

  Did you feel confident that wasn't a Mad Max situation? You felt in the room that you were...

• 41:05Speaker 01

  I felt good there. I felt like I, you know, I had a confidence that I was gonna sort of get, you know, take this character, which was unusual for me, but I had gathered some confidence and experience, you know, through stuff that I'd done. Hunger was a big thing to do.

• 41:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:23Speaker 01

  And to...

• 41:24Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, it's a, looking back, it's remarkable that casting that film, First Class, worked as well as it did. Because you're succeeding to iconic actors and iconic performances.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Definitely. It's good when the pressure's on, you know, I feel like pressure's good. And it's sort of, you know, really sort of...

• 41:41Josh Horowitz?

  Focuses you up.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then the Inglourious Basterd audition, I flew myself to Berlin on a Sunday.

• 41:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  I was shooting Fish Tank. And I think I've told you this before, but I had like, you know, they, you know, my agent, Michael Cooper in the States had really like, you know, hunted down Quentin. It was like, oh, you gotta see this guy. And we, you know, he was like, Landa's an amazing part. And they was like, you wanna take a look at Landa?

• 42:07Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  And Hickox.

• 42:09Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  So I was like, well, I'm shooting like Fish Tank and I don't have time to do both. So I did about 25 to 30 hours prep on Landa.

• 42:18Josh Horowitz?

  No kidding?

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Because he speaks French, German, and he speaks, you know, English with a German accent. So I did so much prep for it, I did nothing for Hickox. And then I arrived in at the audition with Quentin. And first of all, like, he was a massive hero. I had done a play of Reservoir Dogs when I was 18. I told him that. And he was looking at me and I was like, we gave the money to charity. And he was like, good, man. And he was like, I don't want people money, making money out of my shit. And I was like, okay. I was like, I was 18. It was in Killarney, in Ireland. It was like, we had, I could sell 140 tickets. But, and then, and then he was like, okay, let's take a look at Hickox. And I was like, oh, maybe I could read for Landa. He was like, I cast Landa on Tuesday. And I was like, maybe I could read for him. And he's like, look, man. He was like, I cast Landa on Tuesday.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  I was like, Hickox, let's take a look at Hickox.

• 43:07Josh Horowitz?

  How do you win cold reads? Cause you're about to get one.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I did a cold read on it. And, you know, he's reading all the other characters opposite you, which is a trip.

• 43:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  It's quite surreal. And I let, you know, I thought I blew it. I thought I messed up the audition. I left the audition. I went to a bar around the corner, ordered a double vodka tonic. And I called my parents. I was like, I think I just blew it, you know? And then, you know, went back to work on the Monday and the following Friday, I got the call and got the job. So it was like, it was funny.

• 43:50Speaker 04

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• 44:19Speaker 05

  You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime, you're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

• 45:03Speaker 05

  It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts, and let's solve this thing together.

• 45:21Josh Horowitz?

  Back to Axeman, did you feel a little FOMO seeing, did you see Deadpool Wolverine? It was a little, kind of like a goodbye to the Fox Universe in a way.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  I know, I haven't seen it yet. But apparently, they've taken a little extract from, because I signed off and something.

• 45:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, in the credits, there's kind of like a lovely homage to the work you guys did.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Oh, that's, that's sweet. Yeah, no, I think, you know, for me, and, you know, I'm sort of betraying my own people, but I think my favorite of the comic book sort of series world would be Deadpool and Iron Man, actually.

• 45:54Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, is that right?

• 45:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:56Josh Horowitz?

  Just movie-wise or comics?

• 45:57Speaker 01

  No, movie-wise.

• 45:58Josh Horowitz?

  Movie-wise, yeah.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 46:00Josh Horowitz?

  Are you ready for the inevitable? I mean, they're gonna cast somebody as Magneto, you're gonna pass the baton at some point.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  I think it's great. I'm excited to see who does it.

• 46:09Josh Horowitz?

  The latest crazy rumor, I don't think this is real, by the way, but is Denzel.

• 46:14Speaker 01

  As Magneto.

• 46:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  I mean brilliant. He's a heavyweight.

• 46:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, if you're gonna pass the baton on, maybe that's a good one.

• 46:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I don't even think I could pass the baton.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, he's incredible. I just, I loved that film Flight.

• 46:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that was a return for Zemeckis, that was a good one.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  A great return, yeah.

• 46:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  And he's so strong in it.

• 46:36Josh Horowitz?

  Speaking of filmmakers, movies that we grew up on, what's the 80's movie, or TV show rather, to reboot as a movie that you want to star in? Do we go Knight Rider? Do we go Greatest American Hero? Or are you playing Alf? Who do you want to play from the 80's canon?

• 46:52Speaker 01

  Hmm, good question. I would go for something maybe a little bit more obscure.

• 46:56Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Hard Castle and McCormick.

• 46:59Josh Horowitz?

  You're gonna play both of them?

• 47:01Speaker 01

  Uh, which one is?

• 47:02Josh Horowitz?

  I don't remember which one.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, the guy in the white, was it a Lancia? I can never remember what that was, it was a kick car.

• 47:08Josh Horowitz?

  I don't think I've seen Hard Castle and McCormick since I was nine, yeah.

• 47:11Speaker 01

  I think that would be a good one. I mean, if we're talking about, you know, Black Bag, I guess Scarecrow and Mrs. King is of that world.

• 47:18Josh Horowitz?

  That's good.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Um, I love Miami Vice. And I actually loved the Miami Vice film as well.

• 47:25Josh Horowitz?

  I do too.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  I think it's great. As soon as it opened up with like, nu nu nu nu nu nu nu nu.

• 47:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  And the Range Rovers pull up outside, you know, the club, I was like, I'm in. And then, you know, taking the cigarette boat to Cuba for mojitos, I was like, I'm in.

• 47:41Josh Horowitz?

  I'm a fiend for mojitos.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:43Josh Horowitz?

  And Colin, who like-

• 47:44Speaker 01

  I thought he was great in it.

• 47:45Josh Horowitz?

  Colin is great, and he's talked about, like, he was not in a good way. Like, this was like, when he was going through it.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:50Josh Horowitz?

  And somehow, he squeezed out a kind of a great performance.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  I thought it was great. Plus, you're following the great Don Johnson. I mean, you know, he is Sonny Crockett.

• 47:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  The pilot of the, of the series, I think, is amazing.

• 48:03Josh Horowitz?

  Totally.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  I love when, you know, they're driving to the, the sort of, you know, the meat at the end of the movie, and he's like, how much time we've got? And Tubbs is loading the shotgun.

• 48:10Josh Horowitz?

  There's no talking then, it's just like, yeah.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  In The Air Tonight, you know, Phil Collins is playing. Then they pull over and he gets into this, you know, phone box.

• 48:17Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  Brilliant, you know, calls the ex-wife, he was like, it wasn't all bad, was it? Brilliant.

• 48:23Josh Horowitz?

  You'd be great Michael Mann. Have you ever met with Michael Mann?

• 48:26Speaker 01

  I have met with Michael Mann, yeah. Um, you know, obviously, one of the absolute greats. But, you know, getting back to Don Johnson, delivering those kind of lines. There's two actors that stand out for me that can deliver lines that border, let's say, on cheese.

• 48:44Josh Horowitz?

  On self-parody a little bit, yeah, yeah, I got you.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Patrick Swayze.

• 48:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  And Don Johnson.

• 48:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  Nobody does it better.

• 48:50Josh Horowitz?

  Well, the trifecta, you could do it.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, try. I did a film called Kung Fury 2.

• 48:55Josh Horowitz?

  We're never seeing it. I'd give it up.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  Which we were just talking about.

• 48:58Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, you shot this five, six years ago. This is like legal crap, though.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Did I show you what I looked like in it?

• 49:03Josh Horowitz?

  No. Can you show me after, please?

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll show you after, yeah. I really hope it comes out for David Sandberg, you know, more than anybody, but, um, it's, yeah.

• 49:15Josh Horowitz?

  Was there ever a real Bond conversation? I mean, I guess if you're of a certain age and you have a certain accent, you're in the Bond conversation just through the media, but like, have you, did you ever meet with Barbara Broccoli and have that conversation?

• 49:26Speaker 01

  I've, I've met with Barbara Broccoli just, you know, through passing, and I actually went in for like an audition phase before Daniel was cast.

• 49:37Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, really?

• 49:37Speaker 01

  But I was never, you know, I don't think I was ever in the mix, but I remember going into that room and sort of, you know, meeting with her and Wilson and, and I was like, I think Daniel Craig is, you know, I don't know why I was promoting him, I should have been promoting myself. This is what I was saying, I was terrible at auditions.

• 49:55Josh Horowitz?

  Here's a list of other actors. No, no.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, and obviously Daniel, you know, did a fantastic job and went on to, I think, be the most successful Bond in history, but that was it, really. There was never a conversation after that.

• 50:08Josh Horowitz?

  You would have, you would have been a kick-ass Bond. It's not over yet. You still could be.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  I think it's over. It's over. But Reggae, who's in this movie.

• 50:18Josh Horowitz?

  They always mention him. He could be great.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  I think after, you know, people see his performance in this, he could be a frontrunner.

• 50:24Josh Horowitz?

  Maybe you move into Bond villain territory.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  I also thought Aaron Taylor Johnson was a really good call.

• 50:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a physical beast, by the way. I don't know if you've shared time with him. And that guy walks in the room, you're like, oh, he's gonna kick the ass of everybody.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  He works out. And he's also very good.

• 50:43Josh Horowitz?

  He's great. He's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, on the agenda, have you done Hope yet with Alicia?

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 50:51Josh Horowitz?

  You shot it?

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 50:52Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, did it, but, oh yeah, I heard an interview. You didn't shoot together?

• 50:55Speaker 01

  No. You know, we were so excited.

• 50:57Josh Horowitz?

  This defeats the purpose, Michael. What happened?

• 50:59Speaker 01

  I know. We were like, finally, we get to do a film together. And we're huge fans of director now.

• 51:05Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  I love The Wailing and The Chaser, Yellow Sea. And so she actually reached out to him some years back, and they were sort of then, you know, correspondents.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  So then it just came to us, this film that he was doing.

• 51:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  I actually, because of Black Bag and because of the agency and my schedule, I had to go out first and do my stuff, and then I worked with her stand-in. And then she went out, you know, a month later and did the same, you know, worked with my stand-in.

• 51:38Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  But I'm super excited to see what they come up with, because it was so much fun. I love Korea and Koreans. And just the, you know, the chance to work over there and experience that culture. It was, you know, a real treat. So I'm excited to see how it turns out.

• 51:57Josh Horowitz?

  Do you tend to talk about each other's work? Because this came up again when I was talking to her pretty recently, that like, she doesn't necessarily enjoy watching her work for the first time with you.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  No. And I hate watching my stuff with her. I hate watching my stuff, you know, it's like listening to your, you know, your own voice on a phone. But certainly with her, because, you know, I really want to impress her.

• 52:22Josh Horowitz?

  Still trying. One of these days, you'll earn her respect.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  One of these days. So, you know, I'm always worried about, you know, how she'll, you know, take it. And I think she feels the same. You know, we're very similar as well in terms of our insecurities.

• 52:39Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  And about how we approach the work. So yeah, I'm always most nervous watching it with her.

• 52:47Josh Horowitz?

  I bet you're really good story time for the kids. You do a lot of voices, impressions. I could imagine Michael Fassbender doing all the, you know, when it's time to do Harry Potter, you're gonna do all the voices.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  I hope so, you know, there's some times, you know, when my son is sort of asking me to, you know, tell me a story and I gotta make one up. Or I'm just like, I'm so tired. It's like, you know, and it's, I would like to think that I can take a good story, but then I hear like my nanny, and I was like, she's doing a better job than me. I gotta work on this.

• 53:20Josh Horowitz?

  That's what's keeping you sharp now as an actor, is your nanny?

• 53:22Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. I was like, how do I keep my child entertained? Don't look at me, I'm good, watch.

• 53:31Josh Horowitz?

  So Agency, season two is coming, that's next on the docket.

• 53:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:34Josh Horowitz?

  There must have been a sense of like, almost relief, because I'm sure that's a big thing to jump into, to do that ongoing series, 10 episodes, you'd never done something like that.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 53:44Josh Horowitz?

  The caliber of actors speaks for itself, but like, the fact that it worked, audience responded, and you clearly found it creatively satisfying.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, listen, I was very nervous, to be honest, you know. It all, like, it was an intense year last year because both those projects came in the same week and I sort of, you know, joined on to Black Bag. And then this came and I was like, I really wanna do this. And we managed to make it work.

• 54:09Speaker 01

  But I, you know, for sure, first time doing television, massive respect for people, you know, in that field of, you've gotta hit the ground running. You've really gotta understand, like, you come into a scene, you've gotta block it quickly.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  And, you know, the volume of dialogue to learn, obviously, it's 10 episodes. And then you just hope that, you know, audiences are going to take to it.

• 54:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  And thank God, yeah, it's sort of worked out that way.

• 54:37Josh Horowitz?

  All right, we're gonna end with the Happy Second Feels profoundly random questions, Michael.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 54:41Josh Horowitz?

  You ready for this?

• 54:42Speaker 01

  I'm ready.

• 54:42Josh Horowitz?

  You've got this. There's no way to get this wrong, though you might be the first, who knows?

• 54:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, that could happen.

• 54:48Josh Horowitz?

  Dogs or cats?

• 54:50Speaker 01

  Dogs.

• 54:51Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  I like them both, though.

• 54:53Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Do you have a favorite video game of all time?

• 54:58Speaker 01

  You know what, I don't play a lot of video games. I guess racing games.

• 55:01Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  You know, but I do remember the Atari.

• 55:05Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  Our neighbors had one and I was very jealous and there was a helicopter game that I loved. It was just sort of the helicopter went through. I can't remember what it was called.

• 55:13Josh Horowitz?

  The same movement in the Mad Max audition.

• 55:16Speaker 01

  Get out of the room. Slowly.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  Oh my god, and then I did, you know, exit the room in that audition.

• 55:24Josh Horowitz?

  Do you like this? Cause I'm doing it for real.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm going this time.

• 55:28Josh Horowitz?

  This is the Dakota Johnson memorial question. She asked me this. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 55:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 55:36Speaker 01

  I'll take it in the butt.

• 55:39Josh Horowitz?

  But just let it sit there. No one speak.

• 55:44Josh Horowitz?

  That's acting. Look at that. What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 55:49Speaker 01

  Oh, it's my family. Yeah, Alyssa and the two boys.

• 55:52Josh Horowitz?

  Nice. What's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 55:58Speaker 01

  Okay, good one.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  Ah geez.

• 56:04Josh Horowitz?

  Go to that dark place.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  I'm trying to think.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  I guess getting a note, this happens, or I'm doing it already and the director will give me the note of something that I was showing.

• 56:18Josh Horowitz?

  Right, then you're in your own head. You're like, what do I do?

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Well, I'm like, I just did that.

• 56:24Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:25Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  But now, like whenever I get a bad note, I go, got it.

• 56:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, just ignore it basically, just continue.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  But it's been a while.

• 56:33Josh Horowitz?

  In the spirit of Happy Second Few, it's an actor who always makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're happier.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  Jonah Hill.

• 56:40Josh Horowitz?

  Nice, I love that. Yeah. Movie that makes you sad?

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Just talking about recently, A Star is Born, but it makes me happy also.

• 56:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:52Josh Horowitz?

  When's the musical? When do you?

• 56:54Speaker 01

  I've been putting it out there for years. Nobody's approaching me. It'll probably coincide with my Christmas album.

• 57:00Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. And a food that makes you confused. You don't get it.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Tofu.

• 57:07Josh Horowitz?

  What's the purpose?

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Not tofu, sorry. Fondue.

• 57:09Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, fondue?

• 57:10Speaker 01

  They sound the same.

• 57:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, okay. Fondue.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  I don't know, it just makes me think of swingers.

• 57:16Josh Horowitz?

  Not the movie, but the actual, yeah, yeah, yeah. Come over, couples, just a lot of cheese, hot cheese and sex.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  I don't know, I see like pajamas and cheese and...

• 57:27Josh Horowitz?

  This has really turned into the worst therapy session ever, or best, I'm not really sure. We've had a number of great therapy sessions over the years. In fact, this is your fifth time on Happy, Sad, Confused. You know what happens? You get a hat.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 57:42Josh Horowitz?

  You get a hat.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 57:44Josh Horowitz?

  Wear it with pride.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 57:47Josh Horowitz?

  Look at that. This is fashion.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  This is fashion.

• 57:55Josh Horowitz?

  Welcome to the Five Timers Club, buddy. It's always good to see you. Black bag, everybody check it out. Soderbergh doing what he does best. An amazing cast. David Koep, what more do you want, people?

• 58:03Speaker 01

  I know. I'm very lucky and I think it's a great, it's a movie.

• 58:08Josh Horowitz?

  It is.

• 58:09Speaker 01

  He's made a movie and it should be seen in the cinemas if possible.

• 58:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yes. It's good to see you, man, as always. We truly appreciate you.

• 58:16Speaker 01

  Thanks, Josh.

• 58:17Josh Horowitz?

  Thanks, bud.

• 58:19Speaker 00

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't prepared to do this by Josh.

• 58:39Speaker 04

  Hi, listeners. We want to tell you about a podcast we love. It's called Rebel Girls, formerly known as Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls. It's about real-life women who are changing the world with their courage, creativity, and big, bold ideas. Want to know how Taylor Swift became a superstar? Or hear how Simone Biles became the greatest athlete of all time? From immersive stories to heartfelt interviews to super smart advice, Rebel Girls brings you stories that will get you fired up to become your best self. There are over 400 episodes for you to explore, with new episodes every week. So, check it out. Listen to Rebel Girls wherever you get your podcasts.

• 59:21Speaker 04

  And find us on youtube.com/rebelgirls. And whatever you do, stay rebel.