J.K. Simmons, Vol. II

You can call J. K. Simmons a character actor, a sometime bad guy, sometime leading man, or an Academy award winner. Suffice it to say he's packed a lot into his 200+ screen credits and he didn't even get started until his late 30s! He joins Josh to talk about his return to TV with THE WESTIES, his iconic roles in SPIDER-MAN, the DCU, JUNO, WHIPLASH, and so much more. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:29Josh Horowitz?

  Was it ever possible to put too much mustard on a Bring Me Spider-Man bellow? Like, could you ever go too far with something like that?

• 0:36Speaker 02

  Apparently not. Because Sam never pulled on the reins.

• 0:41Josh Horowitz?

  He never said, "Go down to an eight"?

• 0:42Speaker 02

  No, no. One of my favorite Sam directions was, there was a scene where our daughter is getting married, and there was a scene looking down the aisle, and he said, and then JK, right when the camera gets to here, if you would, just tilt your hideous mug into the frame thusly. You know, I was like, "Yes, yes, sir, Mr. Ramey, sir, that's what I will do."

• 1:05Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins.

• 1:12Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. We have a legend in the house today. J.K. Simmons, an Academy Award-winning actor. You know him from everything from Oz and Juno, Whiplash, Spider-Man, Too Many Credits to Count, including his new TV series, The Westies, a great conversation with one of our greats. Thanks, as always, for checking out the podcast today, guys. Remember to hit that subscribe button on YouTube, on Spotify, however you're doing it, you know what to do. And remember to check out our Patreon, if you haven't already, patreon.com/happysadconfused. You get early access to all of our episodes, you get bonus content, you get access to our live events in New York and Los Angeles, autographed merch, what more can you ask for? It really does help us make more stuff over here.

• 1:55Josh Horowitz?

  So check it out, patreon.com/happysadconfused. Okay, so main event today is, as I said, the one and only J.K. Simmons. He's a caricature actor, a leading man. He can kind of do everything, and he is currently leading the Charge in this new series on MGM Plus. It is called The Westies. It tells the tale of an Irish mob that he leads in the eighties in Hell's Kitchen in New York City. He's great in it as he always is, but this conversation not only of course covers that, but a lot of his storied career, as much as we could pack into forty five plus minutes, and there is a lot. Of course, we talk about his iconic role as J. Jonah Jameson in Spider-Man. We talk about Commissioner Gordon

• 2:36Josh Horowitz?

  in Justice League and the Batgirl movie that kinda never was, but also touch upon his theater work. Oz, Juno, so much in this conversation. He's a class act. Truly one of those iconic faces and voices that I was so pleased to have back on the podcast. So I'll throw it to our conversation without any further ado. Please enjoy me and J.K. Simmons. J.K. Simmons, you're back on the podcast. Thank you, sir, for being here.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

• 3:05Josh Horowitz?

  I was saying before, I had the J.K. Simmons podcast experience, but it was it was in the pandemic fog. I didn't get the the living, breathing, the bearded visage that is before me today.

• 3:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was I was probably just semi unkempt at that time.

• 3:20Josh Horowitz?

  Exact same, same. Is the beard today, is this evidence of work or lack of work? Because it could go either way, right?

• 3:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. No, it used to be the unemployment beard. This is it's something that, first of all, I hate to shave, so that's mostly what it is. When we finished The Westies, seven months ago, I was shaving everything.

• 3:43Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 3:44Speaker 02

  Got tired of that. So part of it was just like, let's not shave for a while. And then a couple of roles came along that were like, this is a good fit. And then the last thing I did was like, I'm just gonna make this be a good fit.

• 3:57Josh Horowitz?

  Because I don't want to shave. I just wanna.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  I'm either gonna be this guy with the beard or get somebody else.

• 4:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  And then I have something that, you know, fingers crossed that I'll be doing in a few months that'll just be a real wild man look.

• 4:09Josh Horowitz?

  Nice. It won't be. It's not the kind of thing that will take two weeks. You'll need to.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  No, it's this kind of investment. Yeah.

• 4:15Josh Horowitz?

  Can we talk important stuff? The relationship with your hair over the years, because as I understand it, you were starting to lose the hair pretty early in your twenties. Was that as an actor, as a young actor, was that a moment like, oh, God?

• 4:29Speaker 02

  I mean, I wasn't even a young actor yet. I was a young, you know. Semi wanted to be a rock and roll troubadour turned classical music student. This, yeah, about the time that I stumbled into doing summer theater at the Big Fork Summer Playhouse was. I, first of all, my hair was like Greg Allman hair.

• 4:51Josh Horowitz?

  Right. You went from one extreme to the other.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it was very blonde and it was, you know, yeah, down to my, not quite my belt, but getting there.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  And, and just beginning to show those, those signs. And then when I, I got a cut to do summer theater in seventy-seven, when I was twenty-two. There was, yeah, it was starting to show. You could look at the, the five years I was at the Big Fork Summer Playhouse.

• 5:17Josh Horowitz?

  A progression.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  A little further back. So, yeah, I mean, the writing was on the wall from the beginning. You look up at your mom's brothers and fathers and like.

• 5:25Josh Horowitz?

  It's all there.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's, that's how I'm gonna be.

• 5:28Josh Horowitz?

  I would argue this has served you well over the years. You're like, I, I like, I had Stanley Tucci on the podcast, like a couple, you know, a couple of months ago. And I think the same thing of him as you. It's like, you both have been like forty-five for thirty years. Like you were prematurely that age and you still are kind of that.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I mean, I've always, I've always said fifty. I was a fifty-year-old character actor, kind of waiting to happen for twenty-five years.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  And, yeah, a little over the fifty mark now, but, yeah, I, I, there was never, I mean, I was a little vain about my long blonde locks. But, but once I cut them off, it was like, you know. And then actually like doing things like A Few Good Men, uh, the play.

• 6:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Were, were, were really good moments for me because I was like, well, everybody just got a super buzz there anyway, so.

• 6:17Josh Horowitz?

  Part of the military.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  Not that much of a difference, really.

• 6:20Josh Horowitz?

  Kind of bad wig effect of performance?

• 6:23Speaker 02

  Oh, absolutely.

• 6:24Josh Horowitz?

  Have you had that experience where like, oh, we made a bad call day one?

• 6:27Speaker 02

  Oh, I had to wear a terrible wig in college when I was, I was, sort of got my arm twisted to be in a production of a, of an opera, operetta. Deflata Mouse. And I didn't particularly want to do it. And, and this was before I cut my hair for summer theater. And they, uh. Like it kind of, whatever, got my arm twisted and, and ended up doing it. And then during dress rehearsals, the stage manager said, all right, the following people need to get haircuts.

• 6:57Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  And myself, my buddy, Michael Morrison, a couple of others. And I was just like, no. Ow. Um, sorry, a little, a little bit of a bruised banged up rib cage, um, uh, from a surfing and a, a, a boogie boarding incident.

• 7:13Josh Horowitz?

  Is that right?

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Um, yeah. And, uh, and I ended up wearing a short haired wig that was, I don't know, acquired somehow, hacked off over my already big head, you know, tucking up all my ponytail and everything, wearing a short haired wig and then trying to find a top hat that would fit over all of it so that I could play whoever they are.

• 7:43Josh Horowitz?

  Bad choice upon bad choice.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  Yes, bad, yes. Kind of a hat on a hat.

• 7:47Josh Horowitz?

  It's literally.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Choices, yeah, yeah.

• 7:50Josh Horowitz?

  Um, we're not going to spend the entire podcast talking about your hair. We're going to talk about your versatility as an actor because you are one of these guys. I know you're a baseball fan. You're like the ultimate utility player. Like, let's talk about like an old tiger, like Tony Phillips. You're the guy that can like fill any spot.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Or a new tiger, Zach McKinstry.

• 8:06Josh Horowitz?

  There it is.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 8:08Josh Horowitz?

  But do you take a certain pride in that? You can be, look, you can be leading man, you can be the baddie, you can be the, the nice dad. Um, that's, not many people can have that kind of range.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I think range is something that, you know, a lot of actors, most actors probably, uh, enjoy doing just because it keeps things interesting and, um, yeah, I, yeah, I do like being able to play up different styles, different, uh, time periods, different regions, different, uh, different humans.

• 8:38Josh Horowitz?

  Did you ever feel like you were typecast? Was there ever a role early on or a path you were starting to go down? You're like, oh, oh.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  I was concerned early on, early on in my camera career because I did theater for 20 years and was always able to bounce around between, you know, classical, modern, musical, good guy, bad guy, supporting lead, um.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  And then, and then when Oz came along, I, I, I knew that it was going to be impactful.

• 9:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  And I was, I was a little afraid that I would end up being the Nazi of the week on every TV show for my whole career.

• 9:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  Wanted to avoid that and, uh, and was really fortunate that, first of all, that Tom Fontana created such a great character that had some, you know, I mean, he was.

• 9:24Josh Horowitz?

  Complexities, but yes.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  He was an evil dude, but, but that, you know, there were some layers and, uh, and then that within months of finishing the first season of Oz, Law and Order came along.

• 9:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  So audiences like initially saw this sort of yin yang.

• 9:40Josh Horowitz?

  The dichotomy right there.

• 9:41Speaker 02

  Two characters.

• 9:42Josh Horowitz?

  I would imagine Juno also does a lot for that too, right?

• 9:44Speaker 02

  Juno was, uh, fantastic. And, and when Jason Reitman handed me the script for that, because I was in his first movie, Thank You for Smoking.

• 9:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  Uh, which is, I think, an underappreciated movie, certainly, especially as a debut feature. Um, and he, uh, he joined our poker game that I was playing in and, uh, handed me the script for Juno, but didn't say he wanted me to play Mac, you know? And I, and I read the script and obviously fell in love with that character, but I was also looking at, oh, well, I could play this, this guy that has three lines or.

• 10:19Josh Horowitz?

  You're so predisposed to thinking like, oh, they obviously just want me for this thing.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 10:25Josh Horowitz?

  We'll be right back with more Happy Sad Confused.

• 11:02Speaker 04

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• 11:49Josh Horowitz?

  You've talked about this before, we've talked about this before, but for those who don't know, yeah, the arc of your career, you kind of referenced it. You had a whole life, a whole huge life in the theater before your on-camera career began.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:01Josh Horowitz?

  And I do think of like folks like, I actually think of someone like Gene Hackman, like often, because Gene Hackman, really, his on-camera career didn't start, I mean, Bond and Clyde was really the thing that set him off, and he was in his late 30s. Pretty similar trajectory in some ways.

• 12:15Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think my, my, uh, my first feature, I was 38, maybe, The Ref.

• 12:24Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Was my first feature film.

• 12:26Josh Horowitz?

  Under a Ted Demme movie, right?

• 12:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:27Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah. So, but by that time, I mean, because you also kind of, I feel like dispel like the myths of like, it's not like you were unhappy, you had a very happy life.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  Oh, it was great, yeah.

• 12:38Josh Horowitz?

  It wasn't like you were, you were wanting maybe for some things, but you, you were fulfilled as an actor, is that safe to say?

• 12:43Speaker 02

  I had a roof over my head and I had, and I, you know, I was single, I had no responsibilities, you know, so it was, all I had to do was feed myself and, and, uh, yeah, yeah, there were, there were times when people referred to those years as struggling, you know, but it was, it was not. Well, I mean, you know, sometimes I was pretty broke, but

• 13:01Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  You know, that's what, that's what friends and family are for.

• 13:04Josh Horowitz?

  You've also, I've heard say that you, you sucked early on as an actor. Like you've like numerous times you say that. Are you, are you happy there's not a lot of game tape out there of you early on?

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Absolutely, yeah. No, it was good to be, to be starting in the theater and, and dozens, possibly hundreds of people seeing my, my early work. Cause I was fervent and committed and, and, and ham-fisted and, you know, I had a lot to learn. It's not like you just get off the bus and you know how to be an actor.

• 13:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  You know, um, it, it, and I had some really good, appropriate, age-appropriate directors along the way who guided me and, you know, helped me begin to figure it out.

• 13:49Josh Horowitz?

  How fine is the line, you think, between good acting and bad acting?

• 13:54Speaker 02

  Well, it can be, I mean, especially when you're taking big swings to go back to the baseball metaphor.

• 13:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 13:59Speaker 02

  Um, it, it, it's a very, very fine line between, you know, really committed and really intense and really great and like really, oh, oh, no, just trying a little too hard there, you know, yeah.

• 14:12Josh Horowitz?

  Do you ever, do you like that feeling of feeling out on a limb sometimes? Like, is there?

• 14:15Speaker 02

  I mean, I, I think it's, it's something that I try to continue to embrace because, uh, because I certainly felt that way a lot early on. Um, and I do think it's, it's important to take risks and to, you know, not be too comfortable.

• 14:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 14:36Speaker 02

  All the time. Um, and, uh, yeah, in some ways, uh, Eamonn Sweeney felt like that, felt like, like a, uh, you know, a larger-than-life, you know, certainly very specific time and place.

• 14:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 14:49Speaker 02

  So that was a big part of, for all of us, you know, and we had a lot of Brits and Irish and American and Canadian actors, you know, playing this. This really insular group of Irish-American immigrants in 1980 Hell's Kitchen.

• 15:04Josh Horowitz?

  You're talking about the Westies, which I've called the first couple of episodes of. I mean, I was telling you before, I grew up in the city, not so far, I mean, at the same time period, I was a kid on the mean streets of the Upper West Side, a little bit nicer than the Westies region.

• 15:17Speaker 02

  Thirty blocks north, you're a little safer.

• 15:19Josh Horowitz?

  It's amazing how much of a difference thirty blocks can mean, right?

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:24Josh Horowitz?

  Did you spend a lot of time in New York? Did you ever get mugged in New York?

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Well, I lived in Hell's Kitchen in the early eighties when I was an actor slash waiter. I was doing regional theater and I would, you know, book a job and go to Buffalo for, you know, six or seven weeks. Come back and wait tables at, you know, if I was lucky, somewhere nice like Joe Allen or, you know, whatever, whoever was hiring. And yeah, living in a variety of sublets in Hell's Kitchen and walking home at 1 a.m. after the post-theater shift with a pocket full of cash, you know, kind of looking over my shoulder.

• 15:58Josh Horowitz?

  Clutching it a little.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  Never got, never got mugged.

• 16:01Josh Horowitz?

  So how much is the appeal of something like this? The setting, the world that you know a little bit, you at least were adjacent to? And how much of it is the character? I assume it's all of the above, but...

• 16:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's all of the above and then

• 16:14Speaker 02

  as anyone who

• 16:17Speaker 02

  asks that question will, will hear me say over and over again, it's, you know, it's all about what's on the page.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  And what Chris Prankato and Michael Paines put on the page and of course, in situations like this where you're doing a an eight-episode, season one and you hope, you know, season three, four, five, six. You're basing everything on one pilot script.

• 16:40Josh Horowitz?

  That's a leap of faith.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  And yeah, it really is not like reading a feature or a play and like, this is it. This is your arc, this is your character, this is... But when you have writers who are able to really create that world and introduce... You know, over a dozen major characters in in one episode. It's a it's a real feat of, and obviously it's not Chris's first rodeo. Chris, particularly with Narcos and Godfather of Harlem. And this is sort of genre, historical drama, crime drama is.

• 17:17Josh Horowitz?

  In his wheelhouse.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  He's really adept at that, yeah.

• 17:20Josh Horowitz?

  Do you like the cadence of a series? I mean, you've done series a bunch over the years, but you've also have, I mean, you have over 200 screen credits. So like, you're not wanting for, you know, film work. So the appeal, I mean, that's again, as you said, it's a big, this could be a few years of your life on and off.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a big, it's a big commitment, but you know, in the olden days, especially New York actors, you know, if you were lucky enough to book a pilot, you know, a network pilot, you'd go out to LA and shoot a pilot and sign away seven years of your life.

• 17:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  On a, on a completely one handed or one sided deal.

• 17:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Yes, I'm guaranteeing you seven years and they're guaranteeing nothing.

• 17:59Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly.

• 18:00Speaker 02

  Right. Like, we can kill you off in episode three if we want, but you have to. So that was, that was daunting in the old days.

• 18:08Josh Horowitz?

  That's still, I think, the case for all these Marple auditions, all these guys that audition to be superheroes. They have to like, before, while they're auditioning.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  Right. Seven sequels or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah. Well, even with Spider-Man, we, when that, which obviously was a real gift to my career. When they, they made the offer, my agent, you know, I was very excited to do this movie called Spider-Man with Sam Raimi, who I'd already done two really fun movies with. And then days later, my agent called and he said, oh, by the way, I just got a call from the studio and now they need to. The guy kinda made a mistake and he was supposed to make a, you know, tie us up for three movies.

• 18:50Josh Horowitz?

  We call that leverage.

• 18:51Speaker 02

  Yes, indeed. The ball was kind of in my agent's court at that moment. But that was, that was the first sort of wow, three movie deal.

• 18:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  And then actually made the three movies.

• 19:01Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly. Well, we'll get to Spider-Man. Trust me, I'm too much of a geek to let you out of here without talking about that. But a little bit more on the, the cast of this is exceptional. I mean, Titus, Titus Wellover, I feel like is also like cut from the same cloth as you. I don't know if you guys go back at all.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  We don't at all. I mean, you know, we've been seeing each other and aware of each other over the years.

• 19:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  Um, but no, when I heard that he was coming on board to play Glenn Cain, and I thought, that's fantastic.

• 19:25Josh Horowitz?

  And also this guy, Tom Brittany.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:27Josh Horowitz?

  Who, I mean, he was on my radar. Again, not to connect everything to superheroes, but like apparently he almost was cast as Superman and like, and he's like, there's rumors that he might still be in the mix for Batman, like.

• 19:39Speaker 02

  It was, it was during our shoot that it came down to, uh, two, two guys.

• 19:44Josh Horowitz?

  You were aware, was he talking about it on set?

• 19:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, no, he, he wasn't one of those, you know, not, not wanting to jinx kind of guys.

• 19:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:52Speaker 02

  Of course, we were all rooting for him, but you know, the, those, those kind of close calls come and go, and then you look back 10 years later, 20 years later and go, you know what?

• 20:03Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  It worked out well.

• 20:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm sure James Gunn always said very nice things about him, so I'm sure, I mean, this opportunity here and there'll be more along the way.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  Well, he's fantastic. I mean, he and Stanley Morgan, and especially these, uh, English actors, UK actors, Australian actors, Irish actors that, that have a, a, a, tend to have a traditional training.

• 20:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  You know, I think, uh, both Tom and Stan, off the top of my head, really immersed themselves in these characters, these American 1980.

• 20:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  Uh, Hell's Kitchen characters and then, and then you hear them off, off camera and, and it's like, it's a, it's a very different dude.

• 20:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:45Josh Horowitz?

  And talking about a different dude, you kind of referenced this, like the, the beginnings of your kind of like tough guy era was Oz and this, Oz is a little bit of, of the lineage, a different kind of a tough guy, but he's a, you know, someone you don't want to cross. Is it funny to you that you have that identity? Like, you seem like a very genie-y old friendly man.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, this is, this is the acting.

• 21:06Speaker 02

  No, I think, I mean, I think a lot of it is what we were saying before, you know, I was, I was this older character actor waiting to happen. I was the bald guy, I'm, you know, uh, I have a low voice, I'm sort of this natural authority figure and whether that means I'm, you know, the dad, or the teacher, or the police officer, or the head of the Aryan Brotherhood, or the, the Irish-American gang, the Westies. Um, it just, uh, for whatever reason that I, I, I often tend to be the guy in charge, which is really disconcerting, you know, in real life, because I'm in charge of, of almost nothing, yeah, yeah.

• 21:47Josh Horowitz?

  Also can be the editor of a great newspaper. We referenced Spider-Man.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  Yes, indeed.

• 21:51Josh Horowitz?

  I've heard you talk about, uh, you had worked with Sam a couple of times. Um, he, you were his choice, but you still had to audition for J. Jonah Jameson. Tell me a little bit about that audition, because I heard you talk about how the absurdity of that, where like you have to pretend to be choked by Green Goblin at one point.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 22:08Josh Horowitz?

  In the audition.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:10Josh Horowitz?

  Is anybody else choking you, or are you choking your ch-

• 22:12Speaker 02

  They're choking. No, you have to, you have to endow the universe of the, the choker. Um, uh, which of course ended up being Willem Dafoe. Um, lifting, uh, J. Jonah Jameson off the ground by the neck. Yeah, I mean, playing those, those kinds of things in an audition, and of course, this is obviously old school audition where there are actual humans in an actual room.

• 22:37Josh Horowitz?

  Imagine that.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  And a camera and somebody telling you how to maybe make an adjustment, which actors now, like our daughter, who's a, you know, starting her career, doing all these self-tapes, it just will never-

• 22:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you're out to sea on your own. You have to be your own.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  But that was, that felt very, very silly. Um, and obviously it was silly in the right way, or enough of the right way that they hired me.

• 23:03Josh Horowitz?

  Did you walk out of the room thinking you'd done-

• 23:06Speaker 02

  I mean, I walked out of the room feeling that was silly, but also knowing, you know-

• 23:09Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that was the goal.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  It's a comic book movie, so, um, and then, and then actually found out I was cast. I, I'm pretty sure it was the same day later in that afternoon, when I was auditioning for a voiceover at Gray Advertising, where my Uncle Dave had, had worked for decades. Um-

• 23:31Speaker 02

  And was, you know, in the waiting room, signed in, waited, and then the person comes back to walk me to the recording booth, and somebody in a cubicle slides out their desk chair and says, "Congratulations." And I was like, "Okay, well, thanks for what?" And he said, "Are you kidding me? Spider-Man." And that was when I learned the power of the internet. This is

• 23:54Josh Horowitz?

  That's 2001 or 2000?

• 23:56Speaker 02

  99, 2000, yeah. Um, yeah, that it was already on the, like, my agent hadn't called yet with the offer, but it was on the internet.

• 24:05Josh Horowitz?

  That was a sign of the times to come, yeah.

• 24:08Speaker 02

  Which, which means, of course, that it was true.

• 24:10Josh Horowitz?

  Always.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  Because it was on the internet.

• 24:11Josh Horowitz?

  Everything, as we know. No fact-checking required. Was it ever possible to put too, too much mustard on a "Bring me Spider-Man" bellow? Like, could you ever go too far with something like that?

• 24:22Speaker 02

  Apparently not, because, because Sam, Sam never pulled on the reins, and...

• 24:27Josh Horowitz?

  He never said, "Go down to an eight."

• 24:29Speaker 02

  No, no. He did, he did, uh, one of my favorite Sam, Raimi directions, this was Spider-Man 2. One of my favorite Sam directions was, there was a scene where our daughter is getting married, right?

• 24:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  And, uh, things are maybe not going particularly smoothly, and, and there was a scene looking down the aisle, and he, and he wanted J. Jonah Jameson's, and he said, and then JK's like, "Right when the camera gets to here, if you would just tilt your hideous mug into the frame thusly." You know, I was like, "Yes, yes, sir, Mr. Raimi, sir, that's what I will do."

• 25:07Josh Horowitz?

  He was, he was wearing a suit at least, so he probably, he looked classy, saying that nasty thing to you.

• 25:11Speaker 02

  A rumpled suit.

• 25:12Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 25:13Speaker 02

  But a, but a suit, yes.

• 25:15Josh Horowitz?

  There was sadly a time where you weren't, or you, there was no J. Jonah Jameson briefly in the Spider-Man world, when the Andrew Garfield films were happening. There, there was talk that, like, they were going to get you in there, maybe even that in the third film that never happened. Was there ever, do you remember any conversations of you entering that world?

• 25:33Speaker 02

  I, I, the only conversations I was aware of were the ones that people would call my attention to on, on the internet.

• 25:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, again, always true.

• 25:40Speaker 02

  "Hey, why not?" Or, "Maybe this, or maybe that."

• 25:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't know that there was any, I mean, and then, and then when the, in the third iteration, when that, when that came along to do the little sort of cameo reprise, that was a complete shock and a very last-minute decision.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  Which I still think is why JJJ doesn't have hair in the Tom Holland Spider-Man universe. Because like, they literally like called my agent, we had a meeting the next day. And it was like a day or two later, I was shooting in somebody's office. Some executive's office on the lot because there was no set, there was no, there was like. They were well into editing the film when they went, what if we stuck a little JJJ in here?

• 26:24Josh Horowitz?

  Always helps. Have you still not shared a scene with Tom Holland? Like have you ever?

• 26:29Speaker 02

  Not met Tom Holland.

• 26:30Josh Horowitz?

  You literally have never met Tom Holland?

• 26:31Speaker 02

  No. No, no. Delightful guy, I'm told.

• 26:36Josh Horowitz?

  I've spent more time with Tom Holland than you. This is wrong.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is. Totally is. Yeah.

• 26:44Josh Horowitz?

  On the flip side, you did, you did have a run in DC as well. Do you feel like robbed a little bit playing, I mean, you get this iconic character, Commissioner Gordon. It was a little bit like snake bit, it feels like, because like Justice League obviously had some issues beyond anyone's control.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:57Josh Horowitz?

  This crazy Batgirl thing happens. The last time I spoke to you, you were about to play, you were about to do Batgirl.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, that big hit Batgirl.

• 27:06Josh Horowitz?

  Well, we don't know. I mean, it's not, I mean, it just, it didn't exist, doesn't exist.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it's, it's in a vacuum.

• 27:11Josh Horowitz?

  Did you ever see it?

• 27:12Speaker 02

  It's bizarre. No, no. Apparently one test audience saw it and you know, it wasn't like it was like a bad.

• 27:19Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Score from the test audience. It was, yeah, it was a whatever. Business decision, obviously. And, and yeah, Justice League, where, which was a very small part. Yeah, had its own drama attached to it, but then, then Zack's cut.

• 27:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  The director's cut came out, which the DC fans, you know, really love.

• 27:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:40Speaker 02

  And, and which is really, you know, a lot of fun. And then, yeah, when, when, when Batgirl came along with Adil and Bilal and, you know, it was, it was an exciting prospect to be. Part of the origin story of Batgirl, for those who don't know. Commissioner Gordon's daughter, um, and her, yeah, maybe.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Maybe we'll, maybe we'll never know the, the worldwide audience and it was, and it was.

• 28:04Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, did you feel like it was a good, I mean, was it a good experience? Did you feel like the script was solid?

• 28:08Speaker 02

  It was, yeah. No, it was, yeah. We really had a good time making it and like, you know, thought it was gonna be a fun superhero movie and uh.

• 28:16Josh Horowitz?

  One of the strangest stories and.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  Oh, well.

• 28:19Josh Horowitz?

  The third part of your, of your comic book trifecta, I do want to mention, I mean, Invincible is huge. I mean, those fans are.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  Such a surprise to me.

• 28:29Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 28:29Speaker 02

  Because it's, it's, you know, I mean, I read it and they asked me to do it and I thought this is, you know, really fun and like a genre that's, that I, sort of took me a while to wrap my brain around. This is, you know, it's a superhero animated show and it has, you know, there's comic relief elements to it, but it's like, you know, intense.

• 28:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  And it's not for kids and it's, and, and I was like, well, who's it for? You know, but, well, then I found out.

• 28:58Josh Horowitz?

  Everyone, a lot of people.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  Everybody, because people will stop me on the street all the time now and talk about Invincible.

• 29:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  You know?

• 29:07Josh Horowitz?

  Have you seen the, the, the think mark meme around?

• 29:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah. I mean, my, my first meme was, was J. Jonah Jameson.

• 29:17Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  And yeah, now it's.

• 29:18Josh Horowitz?

  You're the king of memes. There are tons. Um, but yeah, can you feel the same connection with a, a voiceover role as a live action role? I mean.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  I mean, yes and no. Uh, and there were times when we were doing the first season where, because in voiceover, the vast majority of the time is just you in a studio.

• 29:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  And there's, and, and the good news is, you know, all of us in that cast and because it's a lot of people who have on camera careers as well, most of the cast. You know, you can be wherever you are and they can hook it up and record you from London or Las Vegas or New York or whatever, whatever. And, um, we, we did have.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  At least twice, maybe three times, early on when we were doing the first season, we got Steve and Yonan and Sandra Oh and myself in the same room at the same time.

• 30:10Josh Horowitz?

  Just huge.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  Actually playing scenes together, those family scenes with each other, which was an unusual treat.

• 30:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:19Speaker 02

  But yeah, and now it's just Billy West, who plays the red Eminem, calls it theater of the mind.

• 30:25Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  You know, you just, you literally find myself closing my eyes a lot of the time if it's not a ton of dialogue and just kind of picturing, you know, Nolan and Mark and everybody.

• 30:37Josh Horowitz?

  Somehow the further along you get into the career, the more you go back to what we did as kids, basically.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  Right, it's just play and pretend. I mean, that's really all it is.

• 30:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. I was telling you before, I've told you this last time, maybe the most impactful show I ever saw as a kid growing up in New York was Guys and Dolls, but you were a part of this like iconic production. Does anything in some ways compare to like being in the center of like a broad, like the hit of a time when everybody's coming out to celebrate you?

• 31:04Speaker 02

  It's, it's unique, absolutely. And, and to be a part of that was just such a gift. And, and really some of the most fun I've ever had in my career, in my life, was the, once we moved into the theater and we're doing like tech rehearsals, which are, you know, usually just drudgery, and then dress and, you know, previews, the, the note sessions that we would have usually in the upper lobby with, with Jerry Zax, our amazing director.

• 31:37Josh Horowitz?

  Iconic director, yeah.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  And, and that cast of hilarious people, just that was some of the, some of the most fun I ever had in the theater. And the pressure was so intense because everybody, you know, Guys and Dolls is a great musical.

• 31:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  And everybody expected it to be utter brilliance and genius. And you had Faith Prince and Nathan Lane, Peter Gallagher and Josie De Guzman, you know, this fantastic cast, Walter Bobby.

• 32:07Speaker 02

  And and expectations were high and and

• 32:10Josh Horowitz?

  And they were met.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  I was naive enough to just think this is just really fun and really great and who's not gonna love it and uh turned out I was right. Yeah, biggest hit in the history of Broadway at the time.

• 32:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, no, I will never forget it. It's funny to me that like for someone that spent so much time doing theater and singing actually a lot in your career like that's not part of your life, hasn't been part of your life for some time.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  No, I did uh I sang a little bit on uh did a little song and dance actually and dance which was not my forte as a musical theater actor uh on the last show of Billy Bob Thornton's um Goliath.

• 32:47Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 32:48Speaker 02

  The last season of that.

• 32:49Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Did you still have the chops? Were they still there?

• 32:53Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, it was it was nice that we could do it all in a recording studio.

• 32:56Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  And I, you know, so when I little fumfa here or there, you know, you go back and fix it as when you're doing eight shows a week live, you don't you don't have that opportunity.

• 33:05Josh Horowitz?

  This is true.

• 33:06Speaker 02

  Um but no, that was a fun sat at the piano, actually played, which I hadn't done since whiplash and then uh and then got to do the song and dance with well with mostly with Obobabatunde who actually is a triple threat.

• 33:19Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right, right.

• 33:20Speaker 02

  Like genuine dancer. So uh that was both fun and intimidating. But yeah, I think that was I think that was my last time using the musical theater chops.

• 33:30Josh Horowitz?

  I'm surprised they haven't called. A lot of movie musicals are made nowadays. Like, have you not been in the mix for any of these things?

• 33:35Speaker 02

  I've been I've been waiting for a decade for them for them to pull the the string on Damn Yankees and to, you know, uh Old Joe, if anybody's interested, Old Joe, goodbye, old girl, you know, yeah.

• 33:48Josh Horowitz?

  I feel like they've tried to make that into a film a few times, right? It's one of those that's always thought about way back then.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  The great Glenn Worden version, yeah.

• 33:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know.

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• 35:35Josh Horowitz?

  I've seen your days of auditioning are long past. Do you remember the last time you had to audition?

• 35:39Speaker 02

  I mean, I remember that that was all I did for decades. And it was just, I'm trying to remember the first time I didn't audition, because when that started happening, you know, when all of a sudden

• 35:54Josh Horowitz?

  It's just an offer.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  My agent would call me and go, yeah, somebody wants you to do. Actually, you know what? I think the first time it technically happened was my first big TV guest spot after doing theater for 20 years. And I had done little, small parts in some films. I had auditioned for a Law & Order episode. Like for a really good plum part of a defense attorney.

• 36:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:18Speaker 02

  That was gonna have a lot of, uh, they had a lot to do. Didn't get it. And then days later or a week later, got an offer based on that audition to play the bad guy in the first homicide, life on the street crossover with Law and Order episode. Which ended up leading to Oz.

• 36:37Josh Horowitz?

  To Oz.

• 36:38Speaker 02

  Played a Nazi bastard.

• 36:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  And, um, so that was, yeah, I mean, I had auditioned for a different role. So I guess technically that was my first on camera, like job offer without an audition.

• 36:52Josh Horowitz?

  And so I always talk to actors about that shift, which must be so fascinating when you, you'll take anything for, for a long time, like just anything, cause that's what any, 99% of actors will take anything, cause that's the deal.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I was already kind of in that 1% too.

• 37:07Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, really?

• 37:07Speaker 02

  I'd had a few experiences in regional theater where I, you know, it's a job. So, okay, yes, it's a job. Being an actor, I'll take it, you know? And, uh, but sometimes took a job that was a character or a play or a place or a combination that just, I wasn't at all excited about creatively or, or personally and, and, and learned from that, you know? I, I'd rather be waiting tables and waiting for something more interesting to come along.

• 37:38Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  So I did learn that. I was, I was turning down jobs occasionally, you know, when I really had no business doing that. But, you know, I mean, you, you do it because you love it. And if you don't love it.

• 37:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:53Speaker 02

  Why do it?

• 37:55Josh Horowitz?

  You obviously had a major shift with Whiplash, which is now over a decade ago. And it's funny to me to think of, correct me if I'm wrong, that film was shot in 19 days? Something like that? 19 days of your life. You'd already shot the short film, which became, you know?

• 38:09Speaker 02

  Two days.

• 38:10Josh Horowitz?

  Two days, so 21 days of playing Fletcher. That then turned into a year plus probably publicity run, winning every conceivable award. It might, I mean, I don't know, how do you look back? Is that a blur, that whole time period of, of the shooting, the publicity, the awards? Like some perspective now?

• 38:28Speaker 02

  And there's very little gap in between because, because we shot and post-production was like bing bang boom on that film. To get it ready to come out in the fall when they wanted to bring it out and I I was naive enough at the time to have no understand I didn't know there was something called awards season, you know, I mean, I've been able to get through my whole career up to that point without being a part of that world, you know, I was it was always supporting parts and this and that and nobody was dying for me to, you know, do press and come chat on podcasts and chat shows and, you know, The Hollywood Reporter and all that. And so

• 39:10Speaker 02

  it was it was just a completely new experience all the way around and obviously a movie that I was enormously proud of and excited to help get some eyeballs on.

• 39:24Josh Horowitz?

  Is there any diminishment in the amount of like rushing or dragging Not My Tempo daily references in your life?

• 39:30Speaker 02

  There are plenty of those. I mean, it's it's it's the the pool is is a little diluted now.

• 39:36Josh Horowitz?

  Right, there's so much to choose from.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Omni-Man, there's JJJ, there's, you know, there's things that have been there for a long time and then newer things as well. And presumably soon, the Westies, you know, I'll be asked for Amon Sweeney quotes. But yeah, there's still a lot of are you rushing or are you dragging? And the answer is, I'm right on time.

• 39:55Josh Horowitz?

  I do want to see you and Miles together again. Miles I've done a lot with over the years. I love that guy.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  And, you know, we have the the text chain going back and forth, usually mostly about baseball.

• 40:09Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:09Speaker 02

  But, uh, yeah, I something has to come along at some point. And ideally, a sort of a role reversal.

• 40:17Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  You know, where Miles can be more of his natural alpha dude kind of character.

• 40:22Josh Horowitz?

  He's the ultimate alpha. He's as alpha as you get in my experience.

• 40:25Speaker 02

  No, he 100% is, which is one of the things that made Whiplash such a great because in between takes, he would like like he just could not contain the alpha in between takes.

• 40:38Josh Horowitz?

  Of course.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  It had to come up.

• 40:39Josh Horowitz?

  I'm not really. Have to overcompensate, yeah, exactly.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:42Josh Horowitz?

  In real life, just so you know.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:43Josh Horowitz?

  I wouldn't take this.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:46Josh Horowitz?

  I feel like if there's anyone that's meant to dress down Miles in the next Top Gun movie, it's obviously J.K. Simmons.

• 40:53Speaker 02

  Maybe, maybe too obvious.

• 40:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, maybe it's too, maybe it's too obvious.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  I think, I think I need to be some kind of more nebbishy something.

• 41:01Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  You know.

• 41:02Josh Horowitz?

  You want to mix up the dynamic.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Miles and I are together, yeah.

• 41:05Josh Horowitz?

  What's, what's a, what's a deal breaker for you in a script at this point? What do you, what do you close the script immediately when you say?

• 41:12Speaker 02

  Just, just like not good, you know, not, not subtle, not believable. And again, I, I said subtle. Obviously, you know, J. Jonah Jameson is not enormously subtle.

• 41:24Josh Horowitz?

  But that's serving a purpose, specific, yeah.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  And it's, it's obviously very subjective and I, and I'm not even sure exactly what my criteria are. I either read something appreciated as good writing and a character that I relate to that kind of leaps off the page at me, or dismiss it as writing that I, that I don't think is very good. Or even if it's really good writing and the character, you know, just doesn't really, not to get too mystical, but you know, doesn't speak to me or I can't hear or see myself as the character. Then, um, you know, and obviously now I'm in a very fortunate position to be able to pick and choose.

• 42:07Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, the directors you've worked with over the years, it must also be a gas to like still work with, whether it's a young filmmaker or like an old pro. I mean, you worked with Clint before he hung it up, I mean.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  Right, I mean, that was so cool.

• 42:20Josh Horowitz?

  Was that, was that a moment for you even having done all you did to finally?

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Absolutely, yeah. Because, and it's back in the days of auditioning, you know, I had, I had gone on tape with a casting assistant, you know, for, and, and I don't, you know, I don't know if Clint had ever.

• 42:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  Seen any of my audition tapes, you know, for, uh, for those films. And then, yeah, when that, when that offer came in and, uh, My agent was, you know, of course, looking at the role and going, you know, it's not a gigantic role in this film. And I was like, yeah, but did you see?

• 42:53Josh Horowitz?

  It says directed by Quentin.

• 42:54Speaker 02

  Directed by, yeah. So, yes, of course, I, I, I want to do it.

• 42:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Well, did he love everything though? Like the, he doesn't call action, the whole when, when you're ready kind of thing, the whole.

• 43:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's good. Uh, yeah, so low key, so just like, like kind, gentle.

• 43:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  Funny, sweet heart of a, of a guy and, and a very, very relaxed set. Um, like really a great set conducive to doing good work, you know, for, for all of us.

• 43:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Doesn't, doesn't have to be drudgery.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  It does not. And it doesn't have to be a 17 hour day.

• 43:29Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly, exactly. I hope it wasn't drudgery working with another, uh, old buddy of mine, Sam Hewen. You worked on Embassy, Sam, Anna Kendrick.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:38Josh Horowitz?

  I'm, I'm curious about this one. How'd it turn out? You've?

• 43:40Speaker 02

  Uh, well, I ha- I haven't seen it.

• 43:42Josh Horowitz?

  Haven't seen anything.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  So, but I, I, I thought, as we were doing it, I, I thought it was really fantastic. Alexander Karim, another, uh, wonderful actor I, that I hadn't known before this. Um, obviously Anna was, you know, a big part of what was, uh, interesting about doing it.

• 43:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  She's fantastic. And Sam, who, uh, everybody knows from Outlander.

• 44:05Josh Horowitz?

  Outlander.

• 44:05Speaker 02

  This side of the pond knows.

• 44:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 44:07Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, it was, it was a really fun shoot and, uh, yeah, waiting to see it. Actually, should be able to see it very soon, I would think.

• 44:16Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. One other thing I want to hit before I let you go. You, again, you have so many different lives and you mean so, so many things to different people. There's also this, the video game world that you actually, you've done like some really significant work in, in those. Like, do people recognize your voice from like Portal and Baldur's Gate? Do you get that in your life?

• 44:33Speaker 02

  Actually, Tom Brittany.

• 44:36Speaker 02

  From the Westies.

• 44:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  Who my sister said, oh, you're working with the handsome priest from Granchester. I'm so excited. He texted me like a week ago, like a little video text of my character from Baldur's Gate. He said, I'm about to kill you. And, you know, I was like, okay, well, good luck. Good luck with that.

• 44:56Josh Horowitz?

  Do you ever play the games that you're a part of? Have you ever played any of these games?

• 45:00Speaker 02

  My hands don't work on those controllers and I've tried. My kids, of course, my 20 something kids, our 20 something kids play them a lot. And, and my wife, you know, she actually, she'll get in there and play some Mario Brothers or whatever with them. I just, I cannot.

• 45:18Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  No, sorry.

• 45:20Josh Horowitz?

  But it must be like, really, again, to kind of come full circle, like to walk the streets in New York, you walk into a Starbucks, you walk anywhere, it can be, anyone could reference anything. You don't know if it's going to be a video game, Spider-Man, Juno, Oz, the Westies, like.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, there were times, like when it first started happening, it would be Guy's Doll.

• 45:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  You know, I mean, that was the, kind of the first really high profile thing in New York, you know? You'd be walking around midtown Manhattan and a lot of people had seen that.

• 45:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then, yeah, really when, um, when the first Spider-Man film came out was the first time, and people still, you know, nobody knew my name.

• 46:02Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  They, hey Spider-Man, or J Jonah Jameson, or I used to get a ton of Yo Oz.

• 46:09Josh Horowitz?

  Like how people just go straight to the name of the project.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Cause they could get over, certainly they don't know my name and they couldn't remember, or maybe they were just intimidated with how to pronounce Vernon Schillinger.

• 46:20Josh Horowitz?

  That's fair.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  Not get it wrong, so I wouldn't scream at them.

• 46:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  Um, but yeah, it's, it is now, it's, it's, I used to try and sort of profile, like if somebody would, was clearly recognizing me and go, I bet they saw.

• 46:33Josh Horowitz?

  How were you at that?

• 46:33Speaker 02

  This or that. Not very good.

• 46:34Josh Horowitz?

  No. Yeah. All right, we're gonna end with this, the happy, sad, confused, profoundly random questions for you, JK. Are you a dog or a cat person?

• 46:42Speaker 02

  Dog.

• 46:43Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:44Josh Horowitz?

  Qualified dog, it sounds like.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  No, I mean, because I had, we had a great cat when I was a kid.

• 46:49Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  Who was kind of dog-like, and then we got a cat for our daughter when she was little, who was also kind of dog-like, like actually attached to her, came when she was called.

• 47:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  You know, they slept together. My old cat, Tigger, when I was a kid, was a, he was a scrapper. He was a tough, a tough neighborhood cat, so. But I only liked those cats because they were dog-ish.

• 47:13Josh Horowitz?

  Gotcha.

• 47:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:14Josh Horowitz?

  Do you collect anything?

• 47:17Speaker 02

  Not really, no. I mean, I have some little baseball memorabilia, um, but I, I don't pursue it at all. It kind of lands in my lap now, um.

• 47:28Josh Horowitz?

  It did occur to me, maybe it was like the peak of your professional career, arguably, playing, was it the manager and for love of the game of your beloved Detroit Tigers?

• 47:36Speaker 02

  Well, for my first time with Sam Raimi.

• 47:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  And playing, I mean, the only thing that would have been better, and Costner and I, I think he's like five weeks younger than I am, he's playing the stud pitcher and I'm playing the crusty old manager.

• 47:50Josh Horowitz?

  Back to our forty-five for thirty years.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly, yeah, yeah. The only thing that would have been better if is, if I could have played the center fielder of the Detroit Tigers.

• 47:58Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. Um, favorite, well, I think I know the answer to this based on our conversation, but do you have a favorite video game of all time? Any video game you ever played?

• 48:06Speaker 02

  I, I, it was Portal 2 for me, just because it was such a hilarious script. Like, I would have, I, I would have done that, the feature film, or the play, or whatever. It was just such fun writing.

• 48:18Josh Horowitz?

  What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 48:21Speaker 02

  Uh, family.

• 48:23Josh Horowitz?

  Last actor you were mistaken for. Does it ever happen?

• 48:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, I get mistaken for every bald white guy. Um, uh, Miguel Ferrer.

• 48:32Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 48:33Speaker 02

  Uh, you know, a, a while back.

• 48:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  But, um, yeah, we, yeah, we, um, yeah, and there are others. I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to out anybody, anybody else. Sorry, Miguel.

• 48:45Josh Horowitz?

  Worst noted director has ever given you?

• 48:50Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  I think. I think sometimes when a director has a very specific idea in their mind and a difficult time communicating it.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  You know, you'll get directors who just give you the line reading or, right, you know, or, you know, make a facial expression or something, you know, this is what I want. You know?

• 49:24Josh Horowitz?

  I don't think you want that.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  And I go, that's not, I don't.

• 49:27Speaker 07

  I don't know how to motivate that.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  So, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm not coming up with a.

• 49:33Josh Horowitz?

  No, you didn't sell, you didn't go back to your Sam Raimi direction you said earlier.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  Well, certainly, there was, there was zero bad direction ever from Sam Raimi to any actor. There was a, here it is.

• 49:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:45Speaker 02

  You know what? The worst direction often will come from a still photographer.

• 49:50Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  Who somehow is a frustrated, you know, Sam Raimi.

• 49:55Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  Right, like wants to be Cecil B. DeMille and wants to, you know, like, I think your character is like, no, I.

• 50:02Josh Horowitz?

  I'm just here.

• 50:02Speaker 02

  I played my character for a long time, which is why we're now taking pictures of my character or of me as the character, so you don't need to tell me. There was one still photographer who kept saying, more Boku, baby. And I was like, what?

• 50:16Josh Horowitz?

  That's more more, isn't it?

• 50:17Speaker 02

  Isn't that, yeah. Isn't that like the La Brea Tar Pits? The, the Tar, Tar Pits? More, more. Okay.

• 50:25Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. And finally, two more for a movie that makes you sad.

• 50:31Speaker 02

  Um.

• 50:32Josh Horowitz?

  What gets you?

• 50:34Speaker 02

  Well, there are movies that profoundly hit. To Kill a Mockingbird.

• 50:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:43Speaker 02

  It's a Wonderful Life.

• 50:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  You know, those old classics. Don't, you know, ultimately, of course, you're, you're not sad, but they, you have to go, that's part of the journey.

• 50:55Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly. And finally, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it. Why do people eat that?

• 51:01Speaker 02

  Just anything super spicy.

• 51:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  Like why is, and, and our son is like a, one of those super spicy guys.

• 51:10Speaker 02

  And it's just, it's just not, he's just a little white boy, you know? I mean, he's like, it's like, like genetically, he's not predisposed. You know, his, his body is not.

• 51:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  That's the wrong stuff for him and, and, and often he, he pays the price. And I'm like, so you're paying the price while you're eating it?

• 51:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  You're like, where's the, where's the, your eyes are watering, your throat's burning. You're like, yeah, and then you, and then you pay the price later as well. I don't understand it.

• 51:37Josh Horowitz?

  Now I know why you didn't do Hot Ones today and you did Happy Sad Confused.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  Not gonna do Hot Ones ever. Yeah, sorry, sorry.

• 51:44Josh Horowitz?

  But hopefully you'll do Happy Sad Confused again.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  I would love to.

• 51:46Josh Horowitz?

  Second time. I appreciate you, man. You know, when you have 200 plus credits, we can only scratch the surface, but we, we did a decent job, I think, today. Congratulations on The Westies. It's on MGM Plus. Uh, great success with it.

• 51:58Speaker 02

  And.

• 51:59Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you. And thanks again for the time, man. Appreciate you.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, man. Thank you. It was fun.

• 52:03Speaker 03

  And so ends another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't. Should do this by Josh.

• 52:22Speaker 05

  The Tudors were probably the most scandalous dynasty in British history. This season on Vulgar History, we're spilling the tea on this messy, messed up family and the people who had to live through it all. Anne Boleyn and the other wives of Henry VIII are known today from the musical Six, but who were they really? Did any of them actually want to marry him? Henry VIII, the man who was literally the worst? How did two of them manage to escape with their heads intact? We'll also get into historical mysteries, like who really wrote Shakespeare's plays? Who was the real Bloody Mary? What was happening elsewhere in the world while the Tudors were trampling all over England? Like the mysterious disappearance of the Roanoke colony and the true story of the girl known as Pocahontas. I'll be joined by Tudor historians, experts and a few of my friends who really hate Henry VIII

• 53:06Speaker 05

  to learn all about the Tudors this season on Vulgar History. Because it's Henry VIII all day, every day. Listen to Vulgar History wherever you get podcasts.