Emerald Fennell, Vol. II

Emerald Fennell is back with another film that has everyone talking. She's followed up SALTBURN with an adaptation of her favorite novel, WUTHERING HEIGHTS, and she's here to talk about it all, Jacob Elordi and Margot Robbie, the romance and sex, the world building, and more. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! QUINCE -- Go to ⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD⁠⁠ for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot designed to keep you connected. Powered by Verizon's 5G network. And no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code HACK. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy? You might be dehydrated. Whether it's hot yoga, over 100 degree weather, or too much sun. Gator Light, with a specialized blend of five electrolytes, was scientifically designed to help move fluids into the body faster for rapid rehydration. Shop now at retailers nationwide. Gator Light hydrates faster than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 0:59Josh Horowitz?

  As an actor, what's the worst note a director ever gave you?

• 1:02Speaker 03

  Can you take your knickers off and let me film up your skirt?

• 1:05Josh Horowitz?

  That's not a cool note.

• 1:07Speaker 03

  No, it was one, it was, it was not a cool note.

• 1:09Josh Horowitz?

  Wow, that, okay.

• 1:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, there you go.

• 1:12Josh Horowitz?

  How'd that go over?

• 1:14Speaker 03

  Not great.

• 1:15Josh Horowitz?

  Wait. More?

• 1:18Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:21Speaker 03

  But you know, that's, it wasn't how long ago, when did I start? You know, it's not long ago, is it?

• 1:26Speaker 04

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused, begins.

• 1:33Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, I'm Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, a returning champion, the wonderful writer-director that is Emerald Fennell. Her new film is Wuthering Heights. This is a great chat with one of our most talented filmmakers working today. More on that in a second. Before we get to Emerald, I want to remind you guys, if you enjoy what I do, check out the Patreon. Come on, patreon.com/happy, sad, confused. Early access discount codes, the heads up on our live events. We've got some cool ones cooking. If you like what I do, check that out. Support us over there. It helps us make more stuff over here. Okay, not much preamble here, except to say, Emerald Fennell, you know her, you love her,

• 2:15Josh Horowitz?

  Promising Young Woman, she won the Oscar for writing that one. Saltburn, I don't need to tell you about that one. She is reteaming with Jacob Elordi, and now Margot Robbie, in this very bold, big take on Wuthering Heights. This is not your mom and dad's Wuthering Heights. This is a take on Wuthering Heights, as only Emerald Fennell could deliver. It's gorgeous, it's romantic, it's sexy, it's all the things you want in an Emerald Fennell movie, in a Wuthering Heights film. And if you've never heard her chat about her work, her writing, she's a cinephile, she's smart, she's funny, she's everything we like on this podcast. And this is a delight, as always. So, I want to thank you guys for watching and listening.

• 2:57Josh Horowitz?

  Remember to hit that subscribe button, however you're enjoying this, I appreciate you guys. I want to thank not only Emerald, but the folks at Hoff Studios, who gave us their facilities here to record this in person. And without any further ado, here's my chat with the one and only Emerald Fennell. Why, look, it's Emerald Fennell! I didn't see you there!

• 3:16Speaker 03

  Yes, sorry, I just appeared.

• 3:18Josh Horowitz?

  You just like swooped down, or pelted?

• 3:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely. Like The Fly, I just like zapped in.

• 3:23Josh Horowitz?

  The Fly is on my list of movies to bring up today. We were just talking Cronenberg. The Fly is a perfect movie, correct me if I'm wrong.

• 3:30Speaker 03

  No, I won't, I'll correct you for being right. Very jet lagged. It is a perfect movie. Also, Jeff Goldblum as a fly, still would. As half man, half fly, great. In fact,

• 3:42Josh Horowitz?

  The Rundelfly is preferable just to the-

• 3:45Speaker 03

  The mordemaria.

• 3:46Josh Horowitz?

  Oh my, we're off to a perfect start. Emerald, it's good to have you back on the podcast. Congratulations on this ambitious, big, bold, wild, beautiful movie, Wuthering Heights, is the film we're talking about.

• 3:59Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 4:00Josh Horowitz?

  It will, it will drive us mad, as the poster promises.

• 4:03Speaker 03

  I think probably, yeah. It's driven me mad.

• 4:05Josh Horowitz?

  In the best possible way.

• 4:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:07Josh Horowitz?

  It's also a good reminder for men like myself of normal height, that there are people like Jacob that make me feel inferior, like not even like a man. Like, he's a, he's a tall drink of water, to say the least.

• 4:20Speaker 03

  I think also, the, the thing about both, and Margot too, you know, spending, whatever it's been now, a year of my life, looking at the, and just, and Shazad, and Hong, and Alison, basically staring at these faces for the last year.

• 4:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 4:34Speaker 03

  It's really, it's kind of changed me profoundly. I'm now like-

• 4:39Speaker 03

  They are, they're so beautiful and they're so amazing.

• 4:42Josh Horowitz?

  If, if Jacob were a foot shorter, is he your Heathcliff?

• 4:48Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 4:49Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 4:50Speaker 03

  Yes, I think.

• 4:51Josh Horowitz?

  That speaks to his.

• 4:52Speaker 03

  Totally. Well, because I think that he's, it's to do with, look, it's to do with his eyes and it's to do with who he is. Like, I think the thing about Jacob that I find really fascinating and wonderful is that he's, he sort of emanates this kind of tenderness and goodness and, and um, I don't know, there's something very unusual about him that's hard to kind of explain. And that's the thing that I loved for this was that, you know, if you have to play kind of the biggest anti-hero of all time, if you have to play somebody who's extremely hard to love, you have to be a person that's not just a deeply talented actor, but somebody who's sort of got this,

• 5:36Speaker 03

  I don't know, innate kind of sympathy that they bring with them. And that's what, that's what he's got. I mean, and if anything, being so tall is, is complicated for shooting.

• 5:45Josh Horowitz?

  I would think. Yeah, just the practicalities of it.

• 5:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, the practicalities.

• 5:49Josh Horowitz?

  Um, but it does feel like you utilize that, not to harp on the height thing, like just, but it is striking. Like, I feel like you're utilizing it. You're leaning into it in the film. That differential is important. I mean, and sometimes it's like he can, almost can't fit into the physical spaces you've put him in.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, we built, I mean, Susie Davis, who's, who's the production designer on this and who worked on Saltburn too. And it's just like the best, the best ever. Um, one of the early conversations about building the set was to build Wuthering Heights to be too small for him.

• 6:18Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  To have that idea that he's never quite fitting in to any place that he's in. And even later, when he kind of comes back and he's wearing these kind of beautiful clothes, again, you know, working with Jacqueline, the costume designer, but nothing quite, it's, he's never comfortable.

• 6:34Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 6:35Speaker 03

  He's always sort of straining against the kind of physical reality of the place he's in.

• 6:40Josh Horowitz?

  So at what point in the process were you, you're making Saltburn? Was Wuthering Heights, I mean, obviously I know this is, this is the book for you. This is a book for you. Um. How far along were you in thinking about this seriously as your next project? And when did Jacob emerge as your Heathcliff?

• 6:58Speaker 03

  So I I've talked about this a bit in the past and I always think I sound like increasingly mad. But I live, I just live in kind of imaginary universe. The way that I write is I've always lived in a few parallel universes at once. And so one was Saltburn and one was Promising Woman. And, you know, one was my book Monsters and and one has always been Wuthering Heights since I was 14 and I read it. And and I never know what the next thing's gonna be because I only do one thing at a time. And what kind of happens is I I go to these little places of my imagination. And one of them sometimes just like pulls into focus a bit more sharply than others. And it's never necessarily the one that I expect it to be.

• 7:42Speaker 03

  And so part of that process with this was obviously, it wasn't just Jacob, you know, when Jacob came out in his 2005 sideburns and I was like, oh, he's he's the Heathcliff on the cover of my book. You know, that's the kind of, that was my 14 year old girl self. And that was the kind of thing that sort of like, you know, that image in that book kind of destroyed my life. And I was like, oh, wow. And so that was sort of folded into it. But also, but also for Saltburn, you know, the grave scene in Saltburn is kind of taken from Wuthering Heights. And everything that I think about in a funny way is taken from Wuthering Heights because it was like the first thing that made me think

• 8:23Speaker 03

  that you can make something, I don't know, difficult and transgressive and and you can make something that speaks across century, you know, it just kind of like changed my life so much. And so I'm always thinking about it. But yeah, it was, it felt, Wuthering Heights felt so much a part of Saltburn. And perhaps that's kind of what it was. But yeah, and then, and then, of course, it was just, I just thought he'd be, he'd be amazing.

• 8:53Josh Horowitz?

  It's interesting. So you mentioned like, you know, the 14 year old self. Like I was doing some of the math of like where you were as a kid in terms of films that you've referenced or maybe haven't referenced, and these two you have. But you're 11 and 12, I think, respectively, when Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet comes out and Titanic come out the following year. Is it safe to say those two have informed everything, including this?

• 9:17Speaker 03

  So I realised I was just nodding so emphatically, and this is a, this is an oral medium. So I should say, yes, like any young woman, I would say, particularly, those movies were just completely transformative, not just because of my lifelong, truly psychotic love of Leonardo DiCaprio in those movies, but, but because they were kind of disruptive, actually, you know. Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet was so kind of audacious and beautiful and, and it felt so young, it felt like it was something that I could connect to, and he was using Shakespeare's actual words, you know.

• 10:02Speaker 03

  And then Titanic, which could have been, you know, in many ways could have been an action movie, and is an action movie. What it was, was the most moving film about being in love, and it just so happened to have like, an enormous iceberg.

• 10:17Speaker 03

  And so those two, yeah, those two films just kind of, I think, changed all of us. And, and also they changed the way I, I kind of, maybe that I like to make movies that people would want to go and see multiple times, that would become kind of like, part of you. Cause I think I realised early on that I wasn't gonna make stuff for everyone, that, that not everyone would love anything I could make, but that hopefully for the people that do love it, they'd love it like I loved Romeo and Juliet.

• 10:48Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's, yeah, so I, I remember, I'm a couple of years older than you, I think, uh, actually more than a couple sadly, um, but I was watching Titanic and going back and back and back, and it was like, you know, it wasn't, it was designed for everybody. Yes, it was ostensibly for teenage girls, but it was like, I was probably eighteen when it came out, and wanting that experience, wanting to feel and just go through that experience over and over again. And those movies are very rare, they're, they're, and I feel like people aren't even like, even attempting the big swings like that anymore.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  No, and also I think feeling right now, feeling emotionally or physically is kind of embarrassing.

• 11:32Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 11:32Speaker 03

  We're in a real world of, of kind of, we live in a state of constant embarrassment and shame, I think, all of us. Um, and so to make anything that you say, um, I feel things, maybe you might feel things too, is sort of gauche.

• 11:48Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 11:49Speaker 03

  And so I feel like I can be cheesy.

• 11:52Josh Horowitz?

  This is your way of being

• 11:54Speaker 03

  I can, I feel like

• 11:54Josh Horowitz?

  unironic and earnest and

• 11:56Speaker 03

  I, I think so, and I think that is dangerous

• 12:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:00Speaker 03

  to be a feeling person now, because it's, it is sort of an act of transgression. And I think that I am, but also like, I think the movies are also sort of, you know, they can be sharp and they can be, you know, all the things that they are a little bit like ironic and things, but, but mostly what I want is for people to feel something. And that's like scary, because it's much easier, or I think it would be easier to be restrained and subtle and to kind of not, not be so extra all the time. But I, you know, but I think, I, I don't know, I, I don't really know how to do it any other way.

• 12:37Josh Horowitz?

  I, I love the maximalists. I love like the Ba, the Baz's, the George Millers, like I want it all. I want that. I mean, I can, subtlety's great too.

• 12:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course.

• 12:48Josh Horowitz?

  There's room for all of it.

• 12:49Speaker 03

  Absolutely. There's totally room for all of it. And I think it's just, we, we've been, it, it's now, and I feel actually now more and more, things are feeling a bit like we're getting into a much more like expressive

• 13:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:02Speaker 03

  world of movie and TV making again. So that's really fun.

• 13:43Speaker 05

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade, hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 14:15Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so talk to me a little bit, your approach to this. You can go a thousand different ways in adapting anything. Did you know, when you started to adapt this, did you know what you wanted to use, what your way in was? Or did you go through different iterations of what your Wuthering Heights would be?

• 14:33Speaker 03

  I think, well, I think what I knew was, because I'm such a big fan of it, and I'm so obsessed by it, I knew really early on that I wasn't going to be able to do, that I don't think anyone could do a very literal adaptation of the book, because the book is not a very literal book. It's very emotional, it's very strange. But what I really wanted to do was try and make something that felt like a 14-year-old girl's imagining of the book. So then I wrote down, having read it then, of course, for the first time, and then many, many times since, I probably hadn't read it for a couple of years when I was really thinking about it, and I wrote down everything I remembered from the book.

• 15:14Speaker 03

  And some of it was right, and some of it was nearly right, and some of it was just absolute outright fantasy and wish fulfillment. And so then it was a kind of, and then it was that thing of deciding which of those things to preserve, which of that hopefulness to keep, or the kind of, you know, I don't know, the sort of your own relationship to something. And of course, part of that was then, like, just doing, because I'm, you know, I'm a nerd, just a huge amount of research, and not just of all the other movies, and, you know, because you really want to make sure that you've... So much of things can be absorbed, you know, so there are, I think, eleven or twelve movies of this of this book.

• 15:59Speaker 03

  All of them are different in some ways and the same in some ways. They all kind of share a DNA but are profoundly different. And so I needed to, obviously, having watched all of them, make sure I hadn't accidentally absorbed something. So there was that. And then there was all of the thousands of illustrations and then like figurines, posters, decorative plates, all the, and Kate Bush's song and all the other songs. Like, there's so much of, when something is this old, it sort of has its own, you know, you go up to the old parsonage where the Brontes lived and it's still, it's an industry.

• 16:32Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 16:33Speaker 03

  And so it was sort of trying to find a way somehow of responding to all of that. Yeah.

• 16:40Josh Horowitz?

  Did, so you put, you put the title in quotes as kind of an announcement of like, this is, this is Wuthering Heights, but this is a version of Wuthering Heights. This is my Wuthering Heights. You could have called this Emerald Fennell's Wuthering Heights. That could have been the title.

• 16:53Speaker 03

  Can you imagine how pompous that would have been?

• 16:55Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, others have done it.

• 16:57Speaker 03

  I would have, no, no, I think, and others have done it, and others have done it deservedly. But I think with your third film, also, I think my reputation is such that I don't think, don't think it's a great, you know, you wanna, you wanna, yeah, kind of keep away from that a bit. I mean.

• 17:12Josh Horowitz?

  I always found it funny, like, I was saying before we started, like, Dracula always comes up in our conversations like that. It was called Bram Stoker's Dracula, or when, ironically, that was also a very similar kind of like, that was a take, that was a.

• 17:23Speaker 03

  That was such a great take.

• 17:26Josh Horowitz?

  A great take.

• 17:27Speaker 03

  Can we just talk about that take? And, but, but I do think, but it's, but it's important because, I mean, Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet is William Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet because it is literally word for word, the text. And actually, for me, I really did keep as much of Emily Brontë's, like, I would say, I would say it would be up there in terms of adaptations with, with the kind of word for word. I hope it's quite high in terms of her words. So I think, but yeah, I mean, of course I had to put it in inverted commas because there's no way of even attempting something. Like this, that is going to even touch how good it is or how rich and complicated and difficult and, you know, and I think that I knew, being a kind of fanatic about

• 18:11Speaker 03

  the book myself, I knew that whatever I did could never encompass everyone's love of the book. So I, I wanted to kind of be clear that I know that it's an attempt and only that. But also like, yeah, when it comes to like something like Coppola's Dracula, I mean, that's a perfect example. That is just, I mean, it's, it's the feeling, it's like the distillation of the Gothic to a degree, the sexiness, the camp, you know, because I feel very strongly and definitely was sort of thinking with when making Wuthering Heights, like you cannot acknowledge that the Gothic, which is so emotionally overwrought

• 18:54Speaker 03

  and so often in a lot of ways far-fetched, you have to exist with some amount of humor and some amount of, of, of camp. I think, I think that's like a wonderful thing. That's why I love that movie because it's just, it's just marvelous. And also I should, a shout out to, to Dracula Dead and Loving It, the Lesny Nielsen banger, because that is also, I would say, as additive

• 19:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:27Speaker 03

  to the canon of Dracula

• 19:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 19:29Speaker 03

  as anything else. And if I had to sit down and write, if I, if I had to write about, if I had to do what I did for Wuthering Heights, for Dracula, so much of Dracula Dead and Loving It would be there.

• 19:39Josh Horowitz?

  Well.

• 19:40Speaker 03

  Because I don't know anymore what ends.

• 19:42Josh Horowitz?

  Well, and Mel always, Mel Brooks did that with Frankenstein, Young Frankenstein.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 19:46Josh Horowitz?

  Part of why that works, and it's my favorite comedy of all time, is it's, take away the comedy, it's a gorgeously shot, faithful Frankenstein movie.

• 19:54Speaker 03

  Yes, it's a masterpiece.

• 19:55Josh Horowitz?

  They shot on the same sets as the original James Whale.

• 19:58Speaker 03

  I didn't know that.

• 19:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:00Speaker 03

  That's amazing. Well, and I mean, Robin Hood Men in Tights.

• 20:03Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  Where does Robin, where does the Robin Hood myth and that begin? You know, so I think all of that stuff, I think, you know, when you make a movie, especially a movie of a story that's so enduring and, and, and that people know very intimately or don't know and have heard of, you're kind of having to somehow, I think, engage with all of that stuff too, the sort of echoes that it leaves.

• 20:27Josh Horowitz?

  You, you are. You have been making vampire movies, I think secretly or not so secretly the last few times out like Heathcliff Heathcliff could have been a vampire reveal in the third act of the film.

• 20:37Speaker 03

  Well, so could Kathy.

• 20:38Josh Horowitz?

  True. Yeah, they're feeding off of each other.

• 20:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:41Josh Horowitz?

  So have you ever considered an actual vampire tale?

• 20:46Speaker 03

  Yes, of course. I mean, I I think horror is the place that I start from. Like, horror is my natural space.

• 20:56Josh Horowitz?

  You're good at dread. You're good at.

• 20:57Speaker 03

  Thanks. Thanks. Well, you know that that's what haunts me. No, sorry. Why would you know? You know, you know, when I got hypnotized. This is so crazy. When I got hypnotized, firstly, the first thing that happened was the hypnotist said that nobody had ever gone under as fast as me. He was like, hello, lovely to meet you. And I was already under. He was like, ma'am, we haven't started. We have not started. I haven't hypnotized you. I was so ready to go. But the thing that wouldn't they so they do a thing when they hypnotize you for like various phobias. Of course, I'm riddled with them. They they ask who's in the room with you.

• 21:36Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  And they personify the things. And my first one was like, you know, whatever, basic bitch anxiety. And it's like, please, Lee, please ask anxiety to go, say thank you. You're trying to protect me. Go. And I was like, thank you, babe, bye. They all go one by one, all these little freaks that torment me. But then the last one is dread. And he said, OK, ask dread to leave. And I just went sort of silent. And he said, has dread left? And I was like, no. And he said, ask, well, what happened? And I said, she won't leave. And she never left.

• 22:09Josh Horowitz?

  Still there.

• 22:10Speaker 03

  She never left. They got rid of all of the other stuff.

• 22:12Josh Horowitz?

  We know it's a she.

• 22:14Speaker 03

  I think so. I'm haunted by I'm quite I'm quite haunted. But so dread, I think, is my and when I think of the the artists that I love, I mean, they they called Patricia Highsmith the the kind of grand priestess of dread.

• 22:27Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 22:27Speaker 03

  And dread is something that I think we're all very familiar with. And it's part of love, and it's part of rage, and it's part of shame. And all of those things are something that I I think about a lot.

• 22:38Josh Horowitz?

  Where are you at in cults? It sounds like you'd be very susceptible to a cult.

• 22:41Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, of course, I would be. Look at me. I'm desperate. I'm desperate for somebody to just.

• 22:46Josh Horowitz?

  Take you away and give you give you a.

• 22:48Speaker 03

  Oh, just put pot for me in a cloak.

• 22:52Speaker 03

  Just pop me in a cloak, babe. I just, you know, it's, it's, well, it's why I think Fleabag Two was so moving and so connective to so many people is that, you know, what she says, and I'll, I won't, I won't be able to do a direct quote because I couldn't because she's so good, but just want somebody to tell me what to do. And I think that that's a very profound, and that's where Phoebe's genius, you know, it's just so connected, I think, to how so many of us feel now. We have so much autonomy, so much apparent autonomy in our lives, and yet we're so powerless. And so I think, and especially, like, you know, of course, would you, would you be susceptible to a cult?

• 23:30Josh Horowitz?

  I don't think so. I'm obsessed with them. I mean, Jonestown, give me a Jonestown doc and I'm like.

• 23:35Speaker 03

  Why haven't they made, do you know what?

• 23:37Josh Horowitz?

  And then the studio thing.

• 23:38Speaker 03

  I was just gonna say, in the studio, the Kool-Aid movie, I was like, I know we're all laughing about this, but I would die to see Scorsese's Kool-Aid, the movie.

• 23:46Josh Horowitz?

  Of course. Someone needs to do like the real.

• 23:49Speaker 03

  They do actually need to make that movie. No, it's so chilling. It's so chilling. Well, it's, it's, well, but also, I mean, if we may, if we touch on the terror of these times we live in, you, it is suddenly we see how.

• 24:01Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know what you're referencing.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  No, I don't know what I'm referencing either. I don't know the kind of, the pressing of hell, like hell against our windows.

• 24:10Josh Horowitz?

  Let's talk more about dread. So, because.

• 24:14Speaker 03

  She's here. Don't worry. She's in this room. Can you feel her? She's here.

• 24:18Josh Horowitz?

  There is that palpable, I mean, we were talking about bad, and I think about world building. And I think this, this movie really, your first two films are fantastic, but this movie you have leveled up in such a way as a, as a true world builder. There is such a palpable sense of this world from costume, production design, it's all there. Talk to me about sort of like leaning in and how much of that is in the script, just how satisfying it is to like, get to have the tools at your disposal to make something like this.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  It's so satisfying. It's so wonderful. As a, as somebody who loves movies and, you know, I, I went to Universal Studios when I was a kid and I was like, and, and somebody was painting a white picket fence on one of the sort of lots on one of the, and I was like, oh. People do this. This is someone's job to make these things. You can, you know, as somebody just living in England who watched movies, I was like, oh, it's a physical reality. And that's such a huge thing for me is that if you're, if you're building worlds, they'd better be real, even if they're surreal. I want to, I want to feel them texturally. And so I've been so lucky, I've been so extremely lucky to get to work with the people that I

• 25:33Speaker 03

  work with and the crew that I work with, as well as the actors, who are wanting to come and make something that could be terrible. Like, that's where we approach everything from the beginning. It's like, let's imagine, we've never seen a period drama. Let's imagine that we're, we're approaching this from a purely emotional place. Let's imagine we can do whatever we want without judgment and, and that we can do something that has a kind of emotional, physical connection to an audience and let's start from there. And everyone I work with loves that. And so it means that, you know, we could make, and it's a sort of combination, to go back to the kind of question of, of how does it

• 26:18Speaker 03

  start? There is, some is in the script.

• 26:20Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  Because it's a kind of, a necessary sort of bit of plot or kind of character development, whatever. But a lot of it is just lots of conversations about how things make us feel. And, you know, with Susie, a lot of the conversations were about, were about dread and about what, what kind of, how places give you a primal response. And so Wuthering Heights was, we kind of made it wet and it, and it's sort of built out of this rock and nature's sort of invading it. And then at Thrushcross, it's this seemingly lovely place where nature's been sort of contained to a kind of really psychotic degree. And both places give you

• 27:01Speaker 03

  a sort of uncanny, slightly repellent feeling. And I think that's, that's the, that's where I like to be, is in that space of like, you're leaning in, but your face is going to get burnt.

• 27:14Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 27:15Speaker 03

  Or you, yeah.

• 27:16Josh Horowitz?

  Well, and I, I can imagine this is going to be, I've only seen this film once, but this is, this is a film that will reward going back. And because you're using production design and, and set and, and costume as metaphor and, and, and you're, again, leaning into that. This is. This is hopefully, I don't know if this is part of the mission statement. This is the poster on the wall of the teenage girl.

• 27:38Speaker 03

  I hope so.

• 27:39Josh Horowitz?

  And the film that they're gonna keep coming back to.

• 27:41Speaker 03

  I would hope so.

• 27:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:42Speaker 03

  Because I guess it's sort of, that's who I always am speaking to. Like, I'm the first audience, I guess.

• 27:50Josh Horowitz?

  Like, how consciously are you thinking about that in the screenwriting process? Or even on set of like, I'm speaking to my 14-year-old self here? Or is it that just sort of intrinsic to?

• 27:58Speaker 03

  I think it's just, it is kind of intrinsic. You know, there's, I'm not, I'm not very, some, I'm not very, uh, I suppose I, I, it's quite an intuitive process and it's quite, and it's a, and it's a bit of a like, um, I, yeah, I'm not very thematic, even though I think, I think that the films have strong themes. It's not, I'm not working from that place. I'm usually working, you know, with Promising Young Woman. I was just working from a kind of personal place of this thing that people keep telling me isn't bad. If it isn't bad, then what if this, then if I did this? Why would people be so scared? You know?

• 28:41Speaker 03

  And it's like, or with Saltburn, you know, it was about, you know, it was about these books that I've been obsessed with my whole life, these like, what happened in a country house one summer? And why we're all so kind of obsessed with looking at people's lives and, you know, what we do, you know, it's just, it's all, it all comes from this kind of very personal place. Um, and so, yeah, I'm, I'm never very, mostly I'm just looking to feel myself. And if a performance makes me feel something, or a prop makes me feel something, then I'm hoping it will make somebody else feel something.

• 29:53Speaker 05

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade, hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 30:26Josh Horowitz?

  When you're directing actors on set and you know a scene has to achieve a certain level of romance, of sexiness, you can't say to an actor, "Be more sexy," in a scene. So how do you get them there if you're not feeling it in that moment?

• 30:42Speaker 03

  It's honestly the same as every other scene. So I think that the thing that is... The main thing that starts is rehearsal, casting, the very beginning conversations. And we do so much rehearsal and with everyone in the cast and all of those sorts of things. So by the time we get to filming, we kind of know where we want to be. And sex scenes are just romantic scenes. They're just connected scenes. Or they're scenes about power, or they're scenes about rage, you know? They're no different. It's a power dynamic that you're looking at. And it's... So therefore, it's never about the thing that it's about.

• 31:27Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 31:28Speaker 03

  And so I think for me, it's always like, how do we communicate what this very specific scene needs to do? And that's why they're just such great actors, is that they understand that as much as anyone else. None of us, you know, we're not... A sex scene isn't in there for no reason. It's in there because it kind of tells you something about... The characters and I think I think in this movie and in Saltburn, very much so.

• 31:55Josh Horowitz?

  I think it might surprise some people when they finally see this movie that it's it's not an explicit movie.

• 32:01Speaker 03

  No.

• 32:01Josh Horowitz?

  Um. It's a very sexy movie. It's a very romantic movie, but there's almost no actual nudity in the film, if at all.

• 32:08Speaker 03

  None.

• 32:09Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Is that is that something that was considered at some point in the script stage? Or is that a definitive early idea like I don't it doesn't it's not what I need in a film. It's not what this film needs. Um. How did you get there?

• 32:22Speaker 03

  Well, Saltburn wasn't explicit either and I and and everyone like but the thing is is that the only nude scenes in Saltburn are when alone. So they're they are one actor and and one is about grief and the other is about joy. The sex scenes, you never see any nudity at all. And you never you I don't think you ever see below the weight. I mean, you rarely see below the shoulders.

• 32:47Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  You know, the most, the the biggest erotic scene in that movie is between a man and a bathtub.

• 32:55Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 32:55Speaker 03

  So when we talk about explicitness, it's sort of interesting because it's explicit because of what we're thinking. But the movies that I grew up with and the way that they use bodies and the way that they in particular use female bodies. Those were really explicit because often, you know, there was nudity and sex for absolutely no reason, except for like. Whereas I'm I think that the trick for me is always making people feel that they've seen more than they have. And so in that way, I think that, you know, Wuthering Heights is is an extremely sexy book. Like, it's so sexy. Lots of people argue about that. Lots of people feel that it is not a sexy book at all. I believe it's a very sexy book. I felt it was a very sexy book. But, you know, nothing happens.

• 33:40Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 33:41Speaker 03

  So that's that's the other side of things, but I I, you know, it's interesting, the perception of something and the thing itself are so different.

• 33:50Josh Horowitz?

  Well, see, I mean, you're good at playing with expectations, too, even like the start of the film, the very opening of the film. We think we're in the middle of some hot sexy CNN. It's it's the pain, not the pleasure.

• 34:02Speaker 03

  And it's the pain, not the pleasure. But that's what that is what the Gothic is. And that is what Wuthering Heights is is it's all it's all pain. It's all pain, but there's so much pleasure in that pain, you know. And so that's kind of the that was the center of trying to make the movie.

• 34:17Josh Horowitz?

  What's the, in your opinion, the most romantic image in this film? And was it something that was preconceived or something you found on set?

• 34:28Speaker 03

  Oh, God. I mean, it's the the thing is, it's all so it's all so good. I think the foot, I think the hand on the ankle. For me, is the most connected and devastating feeling for me.

• 34:43Speaker 03

  But, I mean, I could pick a dozen, depending on the day, because it is, yeah, it is. It is, I hope, a deeply romantic film.

• 34:53Josh Horowitz?

  Bet you're a fan of Age of Innocence, are you?

• 34:55Speaker 03

  Oh, yes, of course.

• 34:56Josh Horowitz?

  Because when you're when you're talking about that, I think of just like the him unbuttoning the glove.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  Do you know what hands in general in these movies are crucial?

• 35:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:06Speaker 03

  But no, of course, the Age of Innocence is just a masterpiece. Also, DDL.

• 35:10Josh Horowitz?

  Come on.

• 35:10Speaker 03

  Can we just, oh, can we just?

• 35:12Josh Horowitz?

  Lassie Lou Heekins, like, what a romantic hero in that.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  He's just, but the thing is, is because I feel similar, I really do feel similarly about Jacob, because I think it's Jacob. Because he's because he is so beautiful. It's easy to forget that he's just like, he's profoundly talented also. And I think it was maybe similar with Daniel Day Lewis is that, of course, he is a very, very handsome actor and man. And but it's it's not the thing that you necessarily first think of when you think of Daniel Day Lewis. Because he's just made such great choices. But no, of course, I mean, he was such a good. And also, um, my beautiful Londrette.

• 35:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:51Speaker 03

  You know, like so many amazingly, but again, I think romance or sort of films about love have fallen slightly out of fashion, right? But, but I, they're all the movies I go back to.

• 36:01Josh Horowitz?

  According to, I wasn't at Sundown, sex is back in film, apparently.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  Oh, I love, I love it. Don't they say, they say it every two years, guys, sex is back.

• 36:10Josh Horowitz?

  Westerns and sex.

• 36:11Speaker 03

  Back. It's always back. Is it not back? I think, no, it's funny. There's, cause people have talked a lot during this process, um, about this, like Gen Z, you know, the, the, whatever it is that they did a poll about and people do. And I was like, what is that poll? Find me the poll. Find me how many people actually responded to it. Who made the poll? Like, it's so funny the way we absorb things. I just, in my experience, everyone has been kind of the same as time has gone on, which is that everyone's horny, everyone's sad. That's never changed.

• 36:44Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 36:45Speaker 03

  So like, you know.

• 36:47Josh Horowitz?

  Could change the end of the podcast to horny, sad, confused. In your honor.

• 36:51Speaker 03

  You actually could.

• 36:53Josh Horowitz?

  It's the time, right?

• 36:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, horny, sad, confused. That is kind of where we live. That is why, well, it's why people are so interesting and so sad.

• 37:02Josh Horowitz?

  What do you think of Jacob as the next James Bond?

• 37:05Speaker 03

  Oh, absolutely. No comment.

• 37:08Speaker 03

  Do you know what? I'm not, the thing is also, I, I'm not.

• 37:12Josh Horowitz?

  You're not a Bond lady?

• 37:13Speaker 03

  I'm not saying anything. I'm not, I can't say, I'm too.

• 37:16Josh Horowitz?

  Because I'm asking you, do you know anything? I'm just asking other.

• 37:19Speaker 03

  No, no, it's just more that I, I don't, I don't even like exist in a world where Bond discourse exists. Do you know what I mean? I just like, I'm too scared. I'm too scared. It's like that in Star Wars. You can't.

• 37:31Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 37:32Speaker 03

  You know, you can't, you can't. I'm too frightened.

• 37:37Josh Horowitz?

  I found your, this is the dread.

• 37:39Speaker 03

  This is the source of my dread.

• 37:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:41Speaker 03

  It's the source of my dread. No, it's more that like, it's none of my business. Do you know what I mean? I suppose.

• 37:48Josh Horowitz?

  A couple of random things for you. We we we only touched on Killing Eve last last time, but I've done a lot with Jodie over the years. I'm obsessed with her, as we all should be. Um, that was your sweet spot, too. I mean, you love murder murder.

• 38:01Speaker 03

  Yes, thanks.

• 38:04Josh Horowitz?

  Did you have a favorite murder you got to um write on screen in Killing Eve?

• 38:08Speaker 03

  I love Jodie and Sandra. Those guys, that show and Phoebe, that show. What an amazing thing. Um, my favorite murder, actually, on that show, I loved, well, look, I loved being axed to death. I loved Sandra having to ax someone to death. I did love, you know what? Because I think about how I'd kill people a lot.

• 38:30Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 38:33Speaker 03

  All the time.

• 38:34Josh Horowitz?

  Specific people or just like?

• 38:35Speaker 03

  No, just general.

• 38:37Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, got it.

• 38:37Speaker 03

  Generally, I think, yeah, so I think about, well, well, I mean, again, like, there's um, Soda Patricia Highsmith, she has this amazing list that they found in one of her diaries called Little Crimes for Little Tots.

• 38:48Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 38:48Speaker 03

  And it's what children could do about the house to kill or maim their parents. And it's just such a great list.

• 38:54Josh Horowitz?

  Kindred spirit across time and space with you.

• 38:56Speaker 03

  Such a kindred spirit. But um, no, but one of the ones was tying a lift. So in, I think, episode two or three, um, Villanelle just, there's just a man in a lift, and just before the lift doors closed, she just takes the, she just takes the tie and it just garrotts him. And it's just such a simple one, you know? And I like those because it's just like, oh, you could just.

• 39:19Josh Horowitz?

  It doesn't take much. Yeah, you don't need much.

• 39:21Speaker 03

  Nothing takes much with the will. That's what's scary and wonderful.

• 39:26Josh Horowitz?

  There's dread in this podcast studio that you've just brought in.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  Well, no, but I just mean, if we choose to.

• 39:32Josh Horowitz?

  If we choose to be cruel.

• 39:33Speaker 03

  We could all do terrible things. And that's why life is sort of so fascinating, is that we all actually don't. Like, most of the time, people are just really kind and really generous and really good. And that's just amazing when you think that we could not be.

• 39:48Josh Horowitz?

  Well, and yet, to bring it back to this film, this film is about the cruelty we inflict on those we are obsessed and love the most, and the irony of that.

• 39:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally. And also, just like, I think we all relate to that thing of pushing. Of pushing to see if someone will still love us. Like that's.

• 40:08Josh Horowitz?

  How much do you really?

• 40:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. If I do this. We all kind of do that to some degree in our own lives and that is, you know, and also, and also that's not just within the characters, but that's also in, in the book and in the film.

• 40:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  And in all the films, you know, how much will we endure?

• 40:25Josh Horowitz?

  So we joked about this possibly being Emerald Fennell's Wuthering Heights. It could have been, but you didn't want to invite that kind of conversation. But you are in a place, three films in, where your name does mean something to an audience. Like that's, that's rarefied, exciting air for you. So if, if Christopher Nolan's name means X, what is, what is Emerald Fennell's name, you think, mean on future projects? What do you hope it means to an audience going in based on your name?

• 40:51Speaker 03

  Well, I think what I hope and what is the case are probably two different things. I think what, what has been,

• 41:00Speaker 03

  it's so funny because I feel that I, I feel so much in, I, I'm, I'm quite a scared person in my life. I'm quite a worried, anxious.

• 41:12Josh Horowitz?

  We know this by now. We've got it.

• 41:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. I'm quite a like, you know, whatever, boring person, actually. And then, and so it's, so it's been, I, I suppose it's been a real learning, because I've, these movies have come out in six years.

• 41:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:28Speaker 03

  You know, and so that's a huge, like,

• 41:32Speaker 03

  yeah, it's just a huge sort of thing to have happened. And so it's always, it's, it's, I'm still kind of learning what that means and, and, but I hope, what I hope for some people it will mean is that I'm going to try something. And I'm going to try something that hopefully people will, you know, respond to and I, and I'm, and that, that you're gonna, that, that you're gonna. Experience something that's and it's gonna be, you know, I don't know that it's gonna be surprising. I I I don't I don't really, I don't really know, you know, I can't really speak for myself because I find

• 42:13Speaker 03

  that person, I suppose that that you're talking about so far away from who I am.

• 42:20Josh Horowitz?

  But it's interesting because even our last conversation for Saltburn, you said to me, you said two things, you said you like messy movies. And I and I I agree, I like messy.

• 42:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:29Josh Horowitz?

  Big swing movies. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. That's the best stuff. But you also said like, oh, I like a like a reasonable budget. And this is a reason, I don't think this is like a two hundred million dollar movie. But this is a bigger scale movie. So have your have your ambitions changed? Again, you get to play with the department heads that are the best.

• 42:49Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 42:49Josh Horowitz?

  Can possibly be in something like this. So I would think that going forward, like, yes, I I I like to work on that.

• 42:56Speaker 03

  That's true. I mean, I think I think certainly there was something about this that I feel like as a woman. I think sometimes to do something like this on this scale, especially when you're making a romance, let's, you know, arguably, that's what this is. I think, you know, it meant so much to me to see Greta make Barbie on that scale.

• 43:18Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 43:18Speaker 03

  And she's so inspiring to me and it means a lot to me to see Nia DeCosta making.

• 43:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 43:24Speaker 03

  Like, not just one, but two movies in a year, both of wildly different genre and scale. You know, and it means a lot to me to see the bride. Like, that is not something I grew up with and without kind of sounding twee. It means a lot to me. And so actually, I I probably, I think the next thing I do, maybe I'm completely wrong. I don't know what it will be yet, but I would probably want to make something a little more contained again, just because just as because I like to do sort of things as like different. But it also meant a lot to me to be like. You know, we can do this. It is possible and it's possible to make things at a big scale. And, you know, with huge movie stars and all that kind of stuff. And so, and I think that it,

• 44:07Speaker 03

  I know it would have meant a lot to me going back to that fourteen year old girl to see that.

• 44:11Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 44:12Speaker 03

  Cause it didn't, you know, we maybe had.

• 44:14Josh Horowitz?

  You could count on one hand Catherine Bigelow.

• 44:16Speaker 03

  Absolutely. I was just gonna say Catherine Bigelow, but even, you know, Mary Heron and, and American Psycho. That was a really transformative because it's such a masculine film.

• 44:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:24Speaker 03

  You know, and such a brilliant, brilliant movie. And so I do feel like that for me is, I think partly why I wanted to do this.

• 44:32Josh Horowitz?

  Here's another random one for you. Last time you told me, this is way back in the past, but yours, a Tana script you said was super demented. The one that you.

• 44:40Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, yes, Satana.

• 44:41Josh Horowitz?

  Can you give me an example of what that, what, how demented it was?

• 44:45Speaker 03

  Well, I think, I think it was demented because I was, um, probably going through it at the time. And I think the thing is, is I can't help, but I'm not, I think what I've learned now, and then I just finished Promising a Woman. And there was this huge thing in this world that I'd never operated in. And, you know, again, it was, it was a kind of superhero movie. And I was like, okay, how do I make the version of a superhero movie that like I would.

• 45:11Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 45:12Speaker 03

  Connect to emotionally and, uh, which is sort of the woman in the middle of a nervous breakdown. So it's a script reflective of the woman in the middle of a nervous breakdown, I would say. And, and in terms of what that means. Well, I suppose it just meant that it's, it, it was probably too far away from, maybe a little too far away from the genre.

• 45:34Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 45:34Speaker 03

  You know, and it was too, um.

• 45:37Josh Horowitz?

  You made it personal and maybe too personal for the.

• 45:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, maybe. It was, there was quite a lot of, um,

• 45:44Speaker 03

  it was really dark and I'm not sure that, um. You know, I haven't read it for a really long time because I found it really difficult. Because also the thing is, I love JJ so much and he took a chance on offering me to do it. And I really wanted to deliver something amazing for them. And I always felt like I hadn't quite, you know, maybe delivered the thing that they wanted. And so I feel about that, like I haven't read it since and I wonder if I read it now, I'd be more generous towards myself. But I felt like I wish I'd been able to like deliver the thing that they wanted. And I think, you know, they were really lovely about it. It's just, even just remembering, like, you're making me remember scenes. I'm like, oh, nobody would have made that. Nobody would have made it.

• 46:28Josh Horowitz?

  So James Gunn calls you tomorrow and says, Emerald, Wonder Woman is yours.

• 46:34Speaker 03

  Well, that would be, that would be wonderful. I think it's, do you know, I know, what I do know is I can only make the one thing that I'm preoccupied with at a time. I can't really work, I can't really do other people's things.

• 46:48Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 46:48Speaker 03

  You know, or maybe that's not, maybe it will happen, but I like to just, you know, if I can't go to my imaginary worlds, then I feel very marooned. So those are really kind of the only places I can work from, I think. Cause I'm not confident enough as a director to work on somebody else's thing.

• 47:08Josh Horowitz?

  We're gonna let you get back to your private imaginary world in a second.

• 47:11Speaker 03

  Oh, thanks.

• 47:11Josh Horowitz?

  But we end the podcast with our profoundly random questions.

• 47:14Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, okay.

• 47:15Josh Horowitz?

  Are you a dog or a cat person?

• 47:19Speaker 03

  Snake.

• 47:20Josh Horowitz?

  We were talking before about.

• 47:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I wanted a pet snake.

• 47:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, okay. What do you collect, if anything?

• 47:26Speaker 03

  Oh, sort of haunted artifacts. Anything owned by, mostly female, so anything kind of owned by witches or.

• 47:36Josh Horowitz?

  Are they just around the house? Is there one room?

• 47:38Speaker 03

  I'm not allowed to keep them in my house because my husband says they're too scary, so they're in my office. They are really scary.

• 47:44Josh Horowitz?

  What's the scariest object? What's the one that freaks you out?

• 47:47Speaker 03

  Oh, oh, they don't freak me out because actually I feel very kindly disposed towards witches and I feel I feel very loving and I and like protective of them. There is a sort of, there's a witch from the Victorian times. There's a woman. She's a fortune teller and she her finger is pointed. She's a small little model. She her finger is pointed and you spin her barrel and it tells you, you know, if you're gonna have a good year or you're gonna die or your children will be afflicted by some terrible pestilence. You know, it's just that kind of vibe.

• 48:15Josh Horowitz?

  The the original Magic 8 Ball. It's a precursor.

• 48:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But she's got real hair, you know.

• 48:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, well, that's.

• 48:20Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 48:20Josh Horowitz?

  Demand that.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:22Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have a favorite video game of all time?

• 48:23Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, Tomb Raider.

• 48:25Josh Horowitz?

  Nice, okay. Would you rather have a mouth? This is a Dakota Johnson memorial question.

• 48:30Speaker 03

  Would I rather have a mouth? Just I can't.

• 48:32Josh Horowitz?

  Would I have a mouth or? No, it's it's what you imagine. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt? That's the Dakota Johnson.

• 48:39Speaker 03

  Oh, bee in my butt?

• 48:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, right, yeah.

• 48:40Speaker 03

  Obviously.

• 48:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:41Speaker 03

  I mean, I didn't even think I'd necessarily feel a bee in. Would you feel a bee in your butt?

• 48:45Josh Horowitz?

  Depends on the size of the bee, I guess, and the stinger, but.

• 48:47Speaker 03

  I guess so.

• 48:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Anywho, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 48:52Speaker 03

  My children. Ew. Do you know what I mean? Boo, lame.

• 49:00Josh Horowitz?

  Last actor you were mistaken for? Do you ever get?

• 49:03Speaker 03

  Nobody ever. What? Like, I wish, I wish. I don't, I don't think.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  I can't think of who. Oh, that was. Do you know what? Somebody once said that I they reminded me of who was death, not death comes out. Who was Murder She Wrote? Angela Ramsbury.

• 49:18Josh Horowitz?

  Lansbury.

• 49:18Speaker 03

  Lansbury. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was, that's one somebody thought that I, and actually I love that because she was, she was absolutely gorgeous.

• 49:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Picture of Dorian Gray? Remember that? She's.

• 49:27Speaker 03

  I actually don't think I've seen her.

• 49:28Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, she's. She's, yeah, amazing in it. What's the, as an actor, what's the worst note a director ever gave you?

• 49:35Speaker 03

  Can you take your knickers off and let me film up your skirt?

• 49:38Josh Horowitz?

  That's not a cool note.

• 49:39Speaker 03

  No, it was one, it was, it was not a cool note.

• 49:42Josh Horowitz?

  Wow, that, okay.

• 49:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, there you go.

• 49:45Josh Horowitz?

  How'd that go over?

• 49:46Speaker 03

  Not great.

• 49:48Josh Horowitz?

  Wait. More?

• 49:51Speaker 03

  No.

• 49:53Speaker 03

  But you know, that's, it wasn't how long ago, when did I start? You know, it's not long ago, is it?

• 50:00Josh Horowitz?

  Wow.

• 50:00Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 50:02Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, um, in the spirit, yeah, what do you do with that?

• 50:06Speaker 03

  Sorry, but you know, but these are the real world we live in.

• 50:10Josh Horowitz?

  It is. Uh, in the spirit of Happy Sad Confused, an actor who always makes you happy.

• 50:14Speaker 03

  Um, uh, it is, um, um, hang on, cause my brain's gone Steve Buscemi forever and always. My first crush, my forever actor. I love him so much.

• 50:25Josh Horowitz?

  You've said it in Armageddon, the sea of beautiful men in Armageddon.

• 50:29Speaker 03

  I, I love him so much. I think he's the best actor in the world and he always will be. And I'll watch anything.

• 50:34Josh Horowitz?

  Have you ever tried to get him in one of your films?

• 50:35Speaker 03

  I can't go near him. I don't want to see him in real life because I'll cry. It's not, it's not for me, but I love him.

• 50:41Josh Horowitz?

  Um, a movie that makes you sad. So many, what do you?

• 50:44Speaker 03

  A movie that makes me sad. Oh, I'm trying to think of a new one because I always talk about the same one. Uh, movie that makes me sad, Random Harvest.

• 50:50Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, okay. And a food that makes you confused. You don't get it.

• 50:55Speaker 03

  Anything with, anything savory with raisins in.

• 50:58Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, okay.

• 50:59Speaker 03

  Like a lovely salad and there are raisins in. Why? No, thank you.

• 51:03Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 51:03Speaker 03

  But raisins in general, disconcerting.

• 51:06Josh Horowitz?

  Just the, the.

• 51:08Speaker 03

  The fact of them. They're not right. They're not right.

• 51:12Josh Horowitz?

  They're not right in the head.

• 51:12Speaker 03

  They're not right. They've been, you feel their degeneration, right? You feel that they're wizened.

• 51:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 51:18Speaker 03

  That they're apologetic. Like nobody's like, you know, my favorite thing of all time is the raisin.

• 51:23Josh Horowitz?

  A good raisin.

• 51:24Speaker 03

  It's a raisin. You know, a raisin is an apology.

• 51:28Josh Horowitz?

  We've really covered everything.

• 51:29Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 51:30Josh Horowitz?

  We've covered the movie, which is fantastic, Wuthering Heights. We've covered raisins, Steve Buscemi's sexiness, worth as an actor, Daniel Day-Lewis.

• 51:37Speaker 03

  Also as an actor, I don't want to keep, you know, I don't want to objectify him.

• 51:41Josh Horowitz?

  He's, he's used to it. It's okay.

• 51:43Speaker 03

  Okay, that's true. That's true. That is true. Yeah, yeah.

• 51:46Josh Horowitz?

  Um, it's always good to catch up. Congrats. Best of luck on the film and back into your, your hole with your, your weird dreams.

• 51:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, go back to my witch hole.

• 51:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, your witch hole.

• 51:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, my lovely witch hole. Thank you.

• 51:56Josh Horowitz?

  Thanks for reading on horny, sad, confused.

• 51:58Speaker 03

  Oh, thank you so much.

• 51:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:02Speaker 03

  And so ends another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't ready to do this by Josh.

• 52:20Speaker 06

  You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime, you're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

• 53:04Speaker 06

  It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts, and let's solve this thing together.