Cillian Murphy, Vol. IV (plus David Jonsson & Tom Blyth)

Straight from the Toronto Film Festival, Josh returns with 2 chats! First up it's Cillian Murphy (his 4th appearance on the show) chatting his latest passion project, STEVE, plus recalling his Oscar win and looking ahead to his PEAKY BLINDERS and 28 YEARS later returns! Next up it's 2 of the brightest young talents working today -- David Jonsson and Tom Blyth working together on the indie drama WASTEMAN and contemplating balancing franchises with smaller projects as their careers grow. Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Get this. When you're with Xfinity, you're already a member. No sign up, no cost. Score epic experiences from our family at NBC Universal. Plus movie tickets, discounts on streaming, mobile, and more. Check the Xfinity app every Thursday for exclusive perks and experiences. Only with Xfinity. Now that's the way to start a weekend. Let the magic begin. Restrictions apply. Visit Xfinity.com/membership to learn more.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games.

• 0:32Speaker 02

  Witness the beginning of the revolution.

• 0:34Speaker 03

  Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from Star.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  Filmed for IMAX.

• 0:38Speaker 03

  Make them remember you.

• 0:41Speaker 02

  The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Weeping, November 20th, rated PG-13.

• 0:45Speaker 04

  Why do Americans put cinnamon on everything? I mean, I know I'm in Canada.

• 0:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, too much. A little cinnamon, though? No?

• 0:52Speaker 04

  I ordered some oatmeal and there was just tasted a cinnamon.

• 0:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, the cinnamon's powerful, so a little goes a long way.

• 0:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I didn't ask for it.

• 1:01Speaker 05

  Don't get angry, Nick. You're screaming.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

• 1:13Speaker 05

  Hey, guys. Welcome to a very special Happy, Sad, Confused. Directly from the airport, I just have returned from the Toronto Film Festival and I bring with me two great conversations I recorded over there. Killian Murphy back on the podcast, talking about his latest Steve coming to Netflix very soon. It is a passion project for him. Lots to talk about on that one. Followed by a conversation with two of the next wave of great British actors, Tom Blyth and David Jonsson, about their film, Wasteman. Thanks, guys, as always, for listening or watching. Happy, sad, confused, however you're enjoying it. I appreciate you, guys. It has been a whirlwind couple of weeks for me. I have done essentially two film festivals, back to back.

• 1:56Speaker 05

  Telluride Film Festival, where we recorded a bunch of pods coming soon. And Toronto. I literally, this is like the first thing I've done. I walked back into my apartment and I said, I need to record something. So, okay, here we are. Saw a bunch of movies in Toronto. I've been going to Toronto Film Festival. Festival, probably fifteen, twenty years. It is great movies, great people. It's a great town. And got a chance to sneak in three podcast conversations this go around. Coming much later down the line will be a chat I recorded with Paul Meskell and Jesse Buckley. Very excited to share that one. That's about Hamnet. A very big film this year you'll be hearing more about, but that's later on.

• 2:41Speaker 05

  But yeah, got a chance to catch up with these three other gentlemen for today's episode. And I should mention also got a chance to see a lot of happy, sad, confused listeners out on the streets of Toronto. Canada has always treated me very, very well. I remember way back when going there. When my stuff for MTV seemed to get more play in Canada than it did in the US. So I remember my early days going to Toronto very fondly because I felt like something, not quite a celebrity, but it was very nice to get some recognition in the streets in my early days at MTV. And that has continued throughout the years. It was such a blast. I have too many stories to tell on this intro because I want to get to the conversations.

• 3:23Speaker 05

  But I saw a lot of really great folks moderated the press conference for Wake Up Dead Man, the newest Benoit Blanc mystery. Went to a ton of parties, chatted with Dwayne Johnson, found myself in a weird three-way hug with Josh Brolin and Jeremy Renner. Was talking to Michael Shannen when Russell Crowe interrupted me. This is my weird life. I don't know what to tell you. For more stuff like that, go to our Patreon. How's that for a segue? Early access to all of our content. Heads up on our live events and there are a bunch of live events that are going to be coming up pretty soon, I think. Plus autographed merch, all sorts of cool stuff. Patreon.com/happy, sad, confused.

• 4:04Speaker 05

  Okay. So like I said, two conversations today. Later on, I'm going to prep them both and you're going to hear them back to back. Later on in the episode, you will hear Tom Blyth and David Johnson. They have not re-teamed, they have teamed up for the first time for a really exceptional piece of work. It's called Wasteman. It at this moment does not have distribution, so. I hope this maybe helps get out into the universe what great performances both of these guys deliver in this really great film. It's David Johnson plays a guy incarcerated. He's got a kid on the outside. He's desperately trying to get out and Tom Blythe plays the prisoner. You just do not want to room with. He comes in and he's a force of nature. Both great. And

• 4:46Speaker 05

  I'm such fans of both of these guys. Tom, of course, probably best known for being in the last Hunger Games film, but has so much, so much going on. And David Jonsson, if you don't know the name David Jonsson, clock it right now. Maybe you saw him in Rylane. Maybe you saw him in Alien Romulus. You're gonna be seeing a lot, lot more of this guy. And you can, just in this conversation, the presence he has, his voice, everything about him. He's going places, I tell you. Someone who's already gone places is Killian Murphy. So he's kind of the main event on the pod. He's, we're gonna lead off with him. He has a new film. It's called Steve. He is reteaming with his director from Small Things Like These, which was his last film. And this is a project

• 5:31Speaker 05

  very close to him. He produced this one. He stars in it. It's based on a novella very loosely. It's about teachers and students in the UK in the 90s, troubled youths that are struggling to get, get through life, teachers that are struggling to get through life. And it's all set in like one day, one intense horrible day. It's intense. It has some humor. It's gonna be in theaters, but it's also gonna be on Netflix. So check it out. And Killian is always just amazing. As you'll hear in this conversation or see, his fourth time on the podcast, and he really doesn't do a lot of this long form stuff. So it really does mean a lot to me that he, he trusts me. We seem to get along. I vibe with his very unusual, great vibe. He's the sweetest guy.

• 6:13Speaker 05

  And this was our first official conversation since his Oppenheimer wins. So this is a fun one, a great one. So stick around later on, David Jonsson, Tom Blythe. But for now, here you go, guys. Enjoy my conversation with the legend, Academy Award winner now for officially, I can say, Killian Murphy.

• 6:41Speaker 00

  Get this. When you're with Xfinity, you're already a member. No sign up, no cost. Score epic experiences from our family at NBC Universal. Plus movie tickets, discounts on streaming, mobile, and more. Check the Xfinity app every Thursday for exclusive perks and experiences. Only with Xfinity. Now that's the way to start a weekend. Let the magic begin. Restrictions apply. Visit Xfinity.com/membership to learn more.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games. Witness the beginning of the revolution.

• 7:15Speaker 03

  Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from the start.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  Filmed for IMAX.

• 7:20Speaker 03

  Make them remember you.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th, rated PG-13.

• 7:30Speaker 05

  Killian, shall we have a chat?

• 7:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:32Speaker 05

  We're here, we have microphones, there are cameras. We should promote your wonderful movie. Congratulations on Steve.

• 7:37Speaker 04

  Thanks, man. Thank you.

• 7:39Speaker 05

  Fourth time on the podcast, by the way.

• 7:41Speaker 04

  Is it?

• 7:42Speaker 05

  So I feel really honored because, you know, this is not any actor's favorite thing to do the long form, but you're a scholar and gentleman. Thank you for doing it, man.

• 7:50Speaker 04

  I always enjoy our chats.

• 7:52Speaker 05

  Thank you. I'll try to keep the streak running. I will say, once you do the fifth one, I give them a free hat.

• 7:58Speaker 04

  A free hat?

• 7:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:00Speaker 04

  I have a big head, so...

• 8:02Speaker 05

  I'll get your size, your measurements after this.

• 8:06Speaker 05

  So for context, we're at the Toronto Film Festival. Your film premiered yesterday. I was privileged enough to be there. Look, I mean, this is a special one, this is a labor of love, they all are. But do you feel nerves at something like this at this point?

• 8:20Speaker 04

  Hundred percent, yeah. Get very nervous at them. But, you know, I've always said this, I think that a film isn't finished until an audience sees it.

• 8:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:30Speaker 04

  And preferably in a theater, in a dark space. And I love TIFF. I think that the audiences here are real film fans and they really come out.

• 8:45Speaker 04

  It's a beautiful old theater and you could feel it in the room. It felt good in the room.

• 8:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, what did you learn about your movie for the first time from the audience?

• 8:52Speaker 04

  Well, we never had those, we could never have had those laughs, laughs, because we'd never... Played it in a room like that. So it was amazing to hear those laughs in places that you think you were like, oh shit, I didn't know that was gonna happen. And that that that played because it I mean, we're tackling a lot of kind of big, big stuff in there, but it's also hopefully there's some levity in there. And I think it it felt like it played well.

• 9:15Speaker 05

  No, for something like this, those breaks are kind of integral to kind of break the tension a little bit.

• 9:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:20Speaker 05

  I was looking back, I think, and maybe we've talked about this, was your first film festival, was it Cannes for Disco Pigs? Was that like your first festival experience?

• 9:28Speaker 04

  I don't know if Disco Pigs went to Cannes. I think, uh, my first film festival experience, Disco Pigs went to Berlin.

• 9:36Speaker 05

  That's what it was. Okay.

• 9:37Speaker 04

  There. So I think I went to Berlin with Disco Pigs.

• 9:39Speaker 05

  That must have been in a like a moment.

• 9:41Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah, like I was so young then and uh, it was amazing. The film played great there. And I remember just like meeting loads of people and it was very, uh, um, kind of for a young actor, just to meet loads of other actors and directors. I didn't really have the environment to do that before. I never, I never experienced it. So, yeah, that was like, uh, oh my goodness, that's like.

• 10:05Speaker 05

  Twenty six years, right? Like ninety nine.

• 10:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:08Speaker 05

  Let's not age ourselves. We've both been doing this a minute. Uh, we're basically the same age. So I could say that. Um, so, yeah, no, I also love, I I've been doing the film festivals thing a while. And I also love that sometimes it bears fruit even like I was talking to like Paul Meskell and Jessie Buckley, who have this amazing new film Hamlet.

• 10:25Speaker 04

  I hear it's amazing.

• 10:26Speaker 05

  I know you're a Jessie fan. We've talked about Jessie before, and I'm sure you're a Paul fan as well. Um, but like, I think Chloe Zhao like met them at Telluride. And like, these things can happen, like where you're like in a community and you get a chance to actually cross paths with people.

• 10:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's very rare, you know, particularly for actors, because you know, when you're not working, well, I spent long chunks of time not working and I don't see anybody besides for my family, you know, I'm at home.

• 10:48Speaker 05

  They're not gonna cast you in anything.

• 10:49Speaker 04

  They never get, I never get a job.

• 10:51Speaker 05

  Roll. What use are they up to you?

• 10:54Speaker 04

  I mean, I washed the dishes, but, um. You know, so when you get to these festivals, you do get to meet people and it's really, it's lovely and you get to have chats and you never get to see any films where you're just disappointing, but just to be having conversations is wonderful.

• 11:12Speaker 05

  So, okay, before we dive into Steve, can we just catch up for a second? Because the last time we were talking was on the crazy Oppenheimer train. What an amazing run that was. And I mean, if you'll indulge me for a second, just like that night, you win the Oscar. How are you feeling when, because there had been so much buildup to that moment?

• 11:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:31Speaker 05

  And there was talk, it was like, probably gonna be you if you believe the pundits, but maybe it was gonna be Paul, who knew? Like, what were you feeling in that moment?

• 11:39Speaker 04

  I have kind of sort of not great recall from that particular evening, other than really warm feeling, like an overwhelming feeling of gratitude and sort of, I don't know, absolute complete shock, you know? Because no matter what has been going on for months, you don't ever think about it. You can't let yourself think about it. And whatever people might think, or there is no sense of competitiveness like myself and Paul Giamatti, where I'm so close, I think he's an extraordinary actor. And, you know, like, it's not like that, you know? But you just, it's, Sheamusini, like, won the Nobel

• 12:22Speaker 04

  Prize, and I'm not in any way making equivalence between myself and Sheamusini, but he, he, he described after, after, after it, like, as being sort of like a very benign avalanche. And that's kind of, I thought that's the most poetic description of it I can just, I can think of.

• 12:39Speaker 05

  And my sense from knowing you as well as I do is like, life probably didn't change. Like, I mean, you went back to your family, you went back to your real life.

• 12:47Speaker 04

  No, it didn't. You know, other than there's this sort of, this residue of like, holy shit, that was.

• 12:55Speaker 05

  That was crazy.

• 12:56Speaker 04

  That actually, yeah. And, and again, that sense of gratitude and overwhelm, and kind of a, you know. A real sense of kinship with with the cast, all the huge cast of Oppenheimer with Chris and with Emma and a real, you know, just this thing, this real strong bond.

• 13:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 13:16Speaker 04

  But inevitably you move on, you know, and you you go back and you start working again and the whole like insecurity. So all that shit just creeps back in. It's like normal. You can't work unless it does, you know?

• 13:26Speaker 05

  Well, that's what I was gonna say is like the irony, like you would think from a lot of people from the outside in think like, okay, you got all the awards, you got everything, you're top of the mountain. It starts all day one on a set. It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

• 13:37Speaker 04

  And anybody you talk to, anybody that I've talked to, my heroes, the greats, they're all like, you start over, you go, how did this happen?

• 13:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 13:45Speaker 04

  I'm gonna get found out. Well, it just continues in a cycle.

• 13:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, the actor I talk about most, who's on the pod a few times, Gary Oldman, like the most insecure actor, like all the rest of you. It's just like, he's the best of the best. And yet, if Gary Oldman feels that way, what hope is there for any of us?

• 14:00Speaker 04

  It has to be that way, I think. And this is another quote, and I can't remember who said this, but someone said that your insecurity is your security. Because if you don't have that, then you know, you're cruising.

• 14:11Speaker 05

  Yeah. Um, I think does speak volumes to the kind of stuff you've been doing the last couple of years. Like, I mean, to look at the people you've been working with and you really kind of like double down on your friends and collaborators you've worked with in the past, you know, whether it is the Peaky Blinders gang, whether it's Tim who directed both Small Things Like These and this, and who also obviously worked with on Peaky, Alex Garland and Danny Boyle, working with them, starting to work with them. Um, I mean, was there a plan or was it sort of like, you know, I know we've talked before about the importance of like trust and collaborators and the benefits of kind of reestablishing those relationships. But, I mean,

• 14:51Speaker 05

  I'm sure you've had a lot of opportunity, as you always have, even more so in recent years. Like, talk to me a little bit about why you've made the choices you've made the last couple of years.

• 14:59Speaker 04

  It's, I don't know, it's the way I'm wired. I've, I've, like, it's a, it's a tricky thing, kind of, uh, going on set and being entirely vulnerable and entirely, uh, trying to feel entirely like completely protected to the point where you can, uh, just be, you know,

• 15:21Speaker 04

  Completely exposed, I suppose.

• 15:23Speaker 05

  Take risks and just know you're gonna be.

• 15:24Speaker 04

  Emotionally and creatively. And when you're doing that with people that you've worked with for a long, long time, that's a given. And if you're protected and you can, and for me, you go straight to the work. And, and that's just how the pattern that's evolved for me and the way that I work, I keep, I'm like a serial collaborator and it keeps happening and I keep going back and, and, and, and, and I feel like the work improves and gets better. And so that's just the way I, I'm wired. So, uh, like we finished small things like these and it was such a great experience making the film and, and we felt like we wanted to keep that team close.

• 16:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 16:05Speaker 04

  And then find some new material. And so we did very quickly find this script and we moved on trying to keep the same energy, the same atmosphere, uh, and the same sort of, um,

• 16:18Speaker 04

  you know, people call it a smaller film, but I think it's a huge film thematically.

• 16:21Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 16:22Speaker 04

  You know, whatever, in, in terms of budget, I suppose, it's work within the same parameters.

• 16:26Speaker 05

  You, um, so yeah, let's educate the folks a little bit about this. This is Steve. It's gonna be in some theaters, also gonna be on Netflix very soon for the world to see. Uh, it's a great piece of work. It really, it worked for me. It's, um, based on a novella, as I understand it, a little bit of a change of perspective. It's from Shy's perspective in the, the novel, as far as I understand it, but you are a teacher.

• 16:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:45Speaker 05

  Doing with some students that are, you know, like been dealt some tough blows and like maybe, you know, not given the, the love and attention by the rest of the world they deserve.

• 16:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:53Speaker 05

  And these, these teachers that are just trying their damn best to, to take care of themselves and these students. Um, what resonated with you about this work? Was it from a character perspective? Did you key in or story wise? Like what was the, the thing for you?

• 17:07Speaker 04

  Well, like, as we've just discussed, like Max Porter, we made a play together about, uh, which was an adaptation of one of his, his first novel, which is called Grief is the Thing with Feathers. Then we made a short film together for the Manchester International Film Fest, or Festival. And then we were looking around for something else. And I had read that novel before it came out. Like I'd read a proof of it and I thought, no, well, that's unfilmable. You can't do that.

• 17:32Speaker 05

  Right.

• 17:32Speaker 04

  And then we came back to it and he said, well, how about if I spin it on its axis and? It's basically, it's not an adaptation of the novel, it's an expansion of the world of the novel, you know what I mean?

• 17:44Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 17:45Speaker 04

  So, so that character appears in it for like two, has two lines or two words.

• 17:49Speaker 05

  Oh, no kidding.

• 17:49Speaker 04

  In the novel, and then Max, so just reorientated it and told the story through kind of Steve's eyes, but also telling Shy's story. So you have these two kind of overlapping stories.

• 18:01Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 18:02Speaker 04

  And they're both, it's kind of the worst day that ever happened to anybody in their lives.

• 18:06Speaker 05

  Right.

• 18:07Speaker 04

  But, and it's what you just mentioned, like, how do you, how do you help people? How do you fix people? How can you fix somebody if you can't, if you're not fixed yourself? And, and it's all these themes that I'm very interested in and, you know, I, I'm the father of two boys, Max is three boys, I am a man for better or for worse. And then there the, that's the perspective of a story you have to tell.

• 18:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:29Speaker 04

  And, so, and also he's a genius writer.

• 18:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:34Speaker 04

  Like a genius writer. So that's how it happened. And we, we, it, it happened really quickly, like Small Things. We had the idea, we, we commissioned Max, Max wrote the script, I think it was like in about six weeks, came back, brought it to Netflix, Netflix says, yeah. So it was very fast, next thing we're, we're on set making it. And, and I knew Tim would be the right director for it.

• 18:57Speaker 05

  Right. You also bring along Jay, who I, I hadn't seen before, but I guess you had just worked with on the Peaky Blinders film.

• 19:02Speaker 04

  Peaky happened after that.

• 19:03Speaker 05

  Okay, got it.

• 19:04Speaker 04

  Yeah. But then we, we got Emily Watson, who was on Small Things Like These, and then we cast all these amazing young actors. And a wonderful thing happened is that we were shooting in, in one location, basically.

• 19:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 19:14Speaker 04

  So, I, this hadn't happened to me since I worked with Ken Loach, but we shot the whole thing in, in sequence, in order, chronologically, which was.

• 19:21Speaker 05

  What a gift for you.

• 19:22Speaker 04

  An absolute gift.

• 19:23Speaker 05

  Yeah. Talk to me a little bit about, we've talked about your background, I would imagine you're talking about this a bit, but like, you come from a family of teachers.

• 19:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:29Speaker 05

  There must be a fascinating connection point for you. I don't know if your family members have seen this film or not, but like. You know, we all put our our our parents on a pedestal. Maybe we understand or don't understand what they do. But has this given you a little bit greater insight into, I don't know, their lives, their work over the years?

• 19:47Speaker 04

  It, yeah, it really has, I have to say. And um, so my mom and dad are like both retired teachers.

• 19:56Speaker 05

  Right.

• 19:56Speaker 04

  And my grandfather was a headmaster of a school, like a pri- primary school. And then many of my own aunts and uncles are are teachers. And uh, and then when I was in school, you know, I I would come home and my parents would give me extra cla- lessons and great. So I got all the education back and.

• 20:15Speaker 05

  Like, I'm good.

• 20:18Speaker 05

  I don't need the bonus materials, guys.

• 20:20Speaker 04

  Well, there was really no choice. And um, uh, the kind of when I look back at it now, they were both teaching. And then they were, they would come home and then they would be teaching in front of like thirty five, you know, teenagers, whatever. They would come home, deal with their own teenagers and then get up and do it all over again. And it's a, it's a very, very intense, demanding jo- job. And it's so bloody important.

• 20:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 20:50Speaker 04

  You know, and and and um, I I suppose then I was also, so I I would come home from school and and and live in the aftermath of what it meant to be a teacher. Do you know what I mean? And how tired they would be and but how they kept their passion for it. And then I would also then go to school and be like the little shithead in school messing and causing trouble. So that kind of had like, I had a ha- I kind of had it all. And but then, you know, I also had a really excellent teacher in school.

• 21:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 21:16Speaker 04

  Who was my English teacher, who gave me a brilliant insight into literature and theatre and very much encouraged me towards music and towards acting. And so I I ca- I kind of feel like I had every angle covered.

• 21:30Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 21:30Speaker 04

  Just through my li- life uh growing up. And um, it's not the first time I played a teacher, but this was very much um, and a kind of an extreme version of it, because these schools do do exist, uh uh and they are under threat. But like, we we the the story is set in the nineties, and I think what's interesting about it is that the. The problems that these kids have, I mean, they're kind of perennial. It's not just

• 21:55Speaker 05

  No, yeah, it's not over. Yeah.

• 21:57Speaker 04

  If anything. Social media and phones have exacerbated it and made it more acute, I think, but it's, it still went on in the nineties. So it was nice to kind of not have to write in phones and texting and social media and all of that stuff, but just to make it about it. Just real pain that these kids endure.

• 22:13Speaker 05

  It's also fascinating, doing the math on the timeline, again, we're about the same age, like, you're probably about the same age as these kids in this film of the setting.

• 22:20Speaker 04

  As it was in ninety six.

• 22:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was, yeah.

• 22:23Speaker 05

  So do you connect with any of these characters in particular? Which of these nerdewells do you feel like you were closest to?

• 22:29Speaker 04

  I mean, I, I, I, not, not, not, not particularly like directly, but you know, that passion for music, I was obsessed and consumed by, by music at that age. That's all I wanted to do. And it was the only thing. It, it spoke to me like I, it felt the most important thing in my life. And I think.

• 22:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's nothing like the passion of like a sixteen year old, like you're never going to be as obsessed with something as you were at that age.

• 22:53Speaker 04

  No, and that forms you and those tastes that you form at that age remain with you your whole life. And I think Shai's obsession with drum and bass.

• 23:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:02Speaker 04

  I can identify that as completely what I had with music. But it's also that sort of like, it's a very, at that point in your life, you are the only thing in the whole universe, you know? That's the way your brain is working and it's.

• 23:14Speaker 05

  My problems are the world's problems.

• 23:15Speaker 04

  That's it. Yeah. And, and it's, it's a very interesting place to be emotionally and it's very interesting dramatically as well.

• 23:23Speaker 05

  Yeah. So set the scene for me. What was your sixteen year old bedroom? What was the, what were the posters on the wall? Did you have posters?

• 23:29Speaker 04

  Oh, I did. Yeah. I mean, I was just kind of annoying and pretentious, I suppose.

• 23:35Speaker 05

  What were they?

• 23:36Speaker 04

  Oh, I don't know. Probably like, I probably had like, um, you know, uh, I did. I had like loads of Beatles and like Led Zeppelin and like Whitney and I posters.

• 23:46Speaker 05

  I was gonna say, is there a movie with now and I?

• 23:48Speaker 04

  Or like Apocalypse Now or something like that.

• 23:49Speaker 05

  Apocalypse Now is the prerequisite for every teenage boy, I think. Then it was Pulp Fiction, then it was, you know, everyone, everyone has a generational.

• 23:56Speaker 04

  Trainspotting, I think at one point, yeah.

• 23:58Speaker 05

  There you go. That worked, that reaped some rewards.

• 24:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:03Speaker 05

  On the music front, this is random, but I just thought of it. Um, Stephen Knight working with Oasis. Are you an Oasis fan? Do you have an in like?

• 24:10Speaker 04

  I, I do. I can't get your tickets.

• 24:12Speaker 05

  What? Stephen can't hook you up, no me tickets. I don't need tickets.

• 24:16Speaker 04

  I can get, listen, let's not, let's not do it now, but I can't.

• 24:21Speaker 05

  That's hysterical. So, um, talk to me a little bit about, like, generally speaking, we talked a little bit about the choices you made in the wake of Oppenheimer. Like, you are producing a lot now, like more small things like these, this, you're producer on the Twenty Eight Years Later films. What are the goals? Like, what are the kind of films that you want to make, whether for yourself or for others right now?

• 24:41Speaker 04

  There isn't a distinct set of goals, really. I think it's, again, down to taste. This year has been very interesting because I haven't acted at all since December. I've just been producing and in post-production with Steve and with the Peaky film. And then, you know, with the Twenty Eight Years Later, I didn't do much in terms of those films because those guys are like, you know, they know what they're doing. And, but I've really enjoyed it. The acting is, I adore. It takes a lot out of me personally. Other people doesn't, I'm not that resilient with it. So I really enjoyed the producing.

• 25:23Speaker 04

  I like, I like putting people together and I like to talk about, I love being in the grade, I love being in the edit, I love being in the mix, I love.

• 25:33Speaker 05

  What about casting? Do you get in the casting room? Is that weird for you as to be on the other side and auditioning actors?

• 25:37Speaker 04

  I do, I do, I do occasionally like when we get right down to it. Like, Tim Milens is great at acting. It's impossible now, you have to do the tape thing.

• 25:46Speaker 05

  Right.

• 25:46Speaker 04

  But.

• 25:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, no one gets in a room anymore, sadly.

• 25:48Speaker 04

  We, when we narrowed it down to like the last, we did get in room, we did lots of workshop with the, with the actors and, and that's, it's a different skill to doing a tape. And like, it makes total sense, but it's also sort of, it's very disconnecting, that tape thing. But I love it all.

• 26:08Speaker 05

  It's a different skill in a way, right?

• 26:09Speaker 04

  It's an entirely different skill, one that I can't, I wouldn't be able to master. But you don't have that personal thing like we're having now.

• 26:16Speaker 05

  Were you a good auditioner back in the day?

• 26:18Speaker 04

  No, no, it was terrible. I mean.

• 26:21Speaker 05

  What was it about? Just getting in your own head? Just that weird, I don't know, as we said, it's not the real thing. It's a different kind of thing.

• 26:27Speaker 04

  No, I was terrible because I had, I was terrible. I didn't have very much confidence so that I couldn't go to, you know, I knew in the back of my head, I thought I could do it, but I just didn't. I knew with work, I could probably do it.

• 26:41Speaker 05

  Right. If you actually hired me, I could do the job. I just can't do this.

• 26:44Speaker 04

  That's what every actor feels, though, I think. And that's why, maybe this is now that I'm just thinking out loud, but that's why if you find a champion, like I did with Ender Walsh.

• 26:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 26:56Speaker 04

  Who who like cast me and then continued to cast me. You you know, and they could see the work and he wasn't judging on an audition. So I think if you find, if you're lucky enough to find an early champion, who could see beyond that tiny kind of the germ of something to the potential of something.

• 27:14Speaker 05

  Cause that's what it is. You're seeing in the audition room, like just like a hint of what that could blossom into.

• 27:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:20Speaker 05

  Do you remember the last time you had to audition? I would imagine it's over for you now, thankfully.

• 27:23Speaker 04

  Thank fuck, yeah.

• 27:29Speaker 04

  I don't recall. I probably have PTSD about all of them now, so.

• 27:32Speaker 05

  Were you glad that like brought in props? Did you go all out?

• 27:36Speaker 04

  No, I I found it, it's found it very hard to get into the zone in the room.

• 27:42Speaker 05

  I know you said you didn't like feel like at least that you contributed a lot to the twenty eight years later films yet, but I do want to mention, cause last time we couldn't really talk about it, just to say, first of all, I loved what Danny and Alex.

• 27:52Speaker 04

  So good.

• 27:53Speaker 05

  I love that movie.

• 27:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 27:55Speaker 05

  I'm sad that Jodie, you're not going to get to mix it up with spoiler warning. I mean, she's amazing in it.

• 28:00Speaker 04

  Amazing, yeah.

• 28:01Speaker 05

  But like, what was your, I don't know, did you have a feel like you had a creative contribution? Did you kind of just like hang back once they locked in the script and say like, you have my blessing, go for it?

• 28:10Speaker 04

  Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, what I love about the film, I love the way it's so Danny, it's so punk.

• 28:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:18Speaker 04

  It's so, it's quite avant garde in an amazing way. It's very bold, although Alex's writing was sensational in terms of how they, you know, everyone talks about world building or whatever, but they actually did that in a way that makes total sense, but it's driven by the performances.

• 28:33Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 28:33Speaker 04

  It's completely driven by the by all the performances and I think the performances in it are.

• 28:38Speaker 05

  No, the the kid Alfie and a rave. I mean, I mean, not that we're surprised at rave at this point.

• 28:42Speaker 04

  Like, when you see Jack O'Connell in the second movie as well, like the whole thing, it's all driven by performances and writing and direction. And that's, that's what the, the original one hopefully was that was that as well. And it's, I think it's just for us. Uh, it's so heartening that that movie still gets talked about and it's still stuck around after all these years.

• 29:02Speaker 05

  I don't think it's pulling anything because Danny's talked to me on camera and many people that you are appear in a limited way, I think in the second one. So you've shot some stuff.

• 29:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:10Speaker 05

  What was it like to finally, I guess it was for Nia de Costa, the director.

• 29:13Speaker 04

  Yes, it was wonderful, yeah.

• 29:14Speaker 05

  What was it like to finally play Jim again after all these years? Was Danny on set as well? Like, give me a little sense without revealing what happened.

• 29:22Speaker 04

  No, it's Nia's, this is Nia's movie. Danny, you know, Danny produced it with, but she was, she was amazing. I mean, I was only on it for a brief period, but yeah, it was quite, it was quite emotional to go back and to think how bloody long ago it was and, you know, and also just like I said, the fact that these films still seems to have retained some relevance or some sort of people enjoy it still, you know.

• 29:55Speaker 05

  Are you hearing, are we close to a Greenlight on the third? Because apparently you get a lot more to chew on.

• 29:59Speaker 04

  I'm not gonna get drawn into that.

• 30:02Speaker 05

  I'm just trying to well it into existence.

• 30:03Speaker 04

  Listen, if everyone goes and sees the second one, then we're in good shape.

• 30:06Speaker 05

  Okay, we're a few months away from that one.

• 30:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:09Speaker 05

  In terms of like how you are received by folks and out in the wild in Toronto, wherever you are, is it different since Oppenheimer? Are there, is it an equal number of Tommy Shelby fans in Oppenheimer people? What do one of people want to talk to you about lately?

• 30:24Speaker 04

  I guess it depends on the person, all, all, all of the above, I think. It feels like there's a lot of anticipation for the Peaky Blinders film. It feels like that another thing that I suppose because people keep watching and keep going back to it.

• 30:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:38Speaker 04

  You know, it's, that's the nature of streamers now, isn't it? That it never disappears into the background. These things are always there. So there's a lot, it seems like there's a lot of anticipation by that. And, and Oppenheimer touched an awful lot of people, like we could never have anticipated the reach that movie had.

• 30:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:58Speaker 04

  So I, I love to talk, talk about them, but.

• 31:03Speaker 04

  So it's a mix, I suppose.

• 31:05Speaker 05

  Does it feel like you've shot, obviously, the Peaky film? Is that a beginning or an end for Tommy? What did it feel different doing a film as opposed to the TV? The TV always had amazing cinematic qualities, obviously. But do you feel like you had more license to go bigger, whatever that means for this film?

• 31:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, we're very keen to make it a cinematic experience and that is really what we wanted to do. And Tom Harper, the director, did an amazing job. I think it looks fantastic. And I think I had my sort of fan goggles or hat or whatever on the whole time because I really feel like, you know, the fan base for Peaky is incredibly loyal. And people are so devoted to it. I really wanted it to be satisfactory for the fans.

• 31:53Speaker 05

  You must be, I know you got to be tight with Matt Damon, who you were a fan of before you worked with. A little passing of the torch, he gets his time to be front and center. You know what it's like to be a leading man for Chris Nolan.

• 32:04Speaker 04

  I mean, I cannot wait for that.

• 32:05Speaker 05

  Did you talk, have you talked to him since he kind of got a chance to do this? Or when he got the role, is there a conversation about that?

• 32:11Speaker 04

  No, I mean, he's Matt Damon.

• 32:13Speaker 05

  He's okay. He doesn't need my validation.

• 32:15Speaker 04

  He's just fine. And, you know, they've worked together as well. That's another established relationship. And it's the third movie now they've made together, I think. And so it's just so unbelievably exciting. And I don't know, there is no director in the world I can think of who you think could wrestle that book into a movie, you know, except for Chris.

• 32:34Speaker 05

  Totally. And meanwhile, Emily, your buddy, Emily Blunt, is sprinkling her magic dust on Dwayne Johnson next. So maybe he's the next one that gets an Oscar from working with Emily Blunt.

• 32:44Speaker 04

  I hear that's a very exciting film.

• 32:46Speaker 05

  I'm seeing it in a couple of days. I can't wait.

• 32:47Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 32:48Speaker 05

  It's gonna be amazing. What about this? I'm throwing random stuff at you. Like I mentioned Stephen Knight. We talked about Bond.

• 32:54Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:54Speaker 05

  He's writing Bond.

• 32:55Speaker 04

  So he is, yeah.

• 32:56Speaker 05

  Have you talked to him about that? I know you told me you feel like you're past your Bond days.

• 33:00Speaker 04

  Oh, I think so.

• 33:01Speaker 05

  That being said, other great roles in a Bond film.

• 33:04Speaker 04

  Look, I think that's a wonderful team.

• 33:07Speaker 05

  Denis Villeneuve, come on.

• 33:08Speaker 04

  And Stephen Knight. I mean, they're both at the top of their game. I think it'll be very exciting.

• 33:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:13Speaker 04

  So.

• 33:14Speaker 05

  Maybe folks have also mentioned this. This might be more of a fan casting thing, but like this whole Voldemort, Harry Potter thing.

• 33:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:20Speaker 05

  Is that, is there anything to that?

• 33:22Speaker 04

  No.

• 33:24Speaker 04

  I know, I mean, genuine, I mean, my kids show me occasionally, but like, I know, I don't know anything about that.

• 33:29Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 33:29Speaker 04

  I mean, also, it's just really hard to follow anything Ray Fiennes does.

• 33:32Speaker 05

  This is true.

• 33:33Speaker 04

  He's a man, is an absolute acting legend, so good luck to whoever is gonna fill those.

• 33:38Speaker 05

  And you'd have to lose your, your beautiful nose for like eight years or something.

• 33:41Speaker 04

  I'm very touched.

• 33:42Speaker 05

  We all are.

• 33:45Speaker 05

  Um, but yeah, we mentioned earlier, um, I mentioned, uh, Jessie Buckley, who you said you were a fan of before.

• 33:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:51Speaker 05

  Like, so are, are, I mean, I don't know how plugged into you are in this film festival season or something, but like, are there films or people that you have your eye on that you're excited to see that you're just hearing about right now or not really?

• 34:01Speaker 04

  Just bumped into Paul Greengrass there, I'm very excited.

• 34:03Speaker 05

  Saw that one, it's good.

• 34:04Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah, I mean, he's.

• 34:06Speaker 05

  He makes great movies, so.

• 34:07Speaker 04

  He makes amazing movies. I'm really looking forward to seeing that. It's a great cast. He's such a great filmmaker.

• 34:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:13Speaker 04

  I'm excited to see that.

• 34:14Speaker 05

  Excellent. All right, I'm gonna wrap up with our, uh, you've done this before, I'm gonna subject, this is the price of doing the podcast four times, you answer some profoundly random questions for me.

• 34:22Speaker 04

  Oh, God.

• 34:22Speaker 05

  I know.

• 34:23Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 34:23Speaker 05

  The rest of it was fine. Now this is the pain.

• 34:25Speaker 04

  I forgot about this part.

• 34:28Speaker 05

  Um, I don't think I've asked you most, most of these, uh, are you a dog or cat person?

• 34:32Speaker 04

  We're both.

• 34:33Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 34:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 05

  Equal opportunity. Do you collect anything?

• 34:38Speaker 04

  Uh, vinyl, I suppose.

• 34:40Speaker 05

  Okay. Uh, reover a video game person, favorite video game of all time?

• 34:44Speaker 04

  Not really.

• 34:45Speaker 05

  Back to your youth, no, no Pac-Man, nothing?

• 34:47Speaker 04

  Not really, no, I, no, no.

• 34:49Speaker 05

  Okay. Um, this is the most controversial one, Dakota Johnson asked me this, I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 34:56Speaker 04

  Jesus.

• 34:58Speaker 05

  Don't blame me, blame Dakota Johnson.

• 35:00Speaker 04

  Um.

• 35:03Speaker 04

  I suppose if I had a mouthful of bees, I wouldn't have to answer the question, right?

• 35:07Speaker 05

  You wouldn't have to, it's like a circular thing, then you wouldn't have to ask, answer my stupid questions.

• 35:10Speaker 04

  Then it would be the end of the interview, wouldn't it? Yeah.

• 35:12Speaker 05

  Smart, smart man. Um, wallpaper on your phone, is it still black? You told me that way.

• 35:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's still black.

• 35:19Speaker 05

  We love that.

• 35:20Speaker 04

  Still black.

• 35:21Speaker 05

  We love that, we encourage that.

• 35:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:22Speaker 05

  Uh, last actor you were mistaken for?

• 35:26Speaker 04

  It doesn't really happen.

• 35:28Speaker 05

  Now you're you're Killian Murphy.

• 35:30Speaker 04

  Well.

• 35:31Speaker 05

  Do less people mangle your name now, thanks to the Oscar? Has the percentage gone down?

• 35:36Speaker 04

  I get a bit of mangling, but it's not so bad like it's I don't mind it's it's. I've explained this before, this there's no C in the I in the Irish in the Irish alphabet, so that's why.

• 35:46Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 35:46Speaker 04

  There is no K in the Irish alphabet, so we use a C.

• 35:49Speaker 05

  Got it. You did answer this once before, let's see if the same answer, worst noted director has ever given you.

• 35:54Speaker 04

  Oh, God, what did I say before? I don't want to do that again. Whatever I said before.

• 36:01Speaker 05

  You said a director once asked, am I a good director?

• 36:03Speaker 04

  Oh, Jesus, yeah.

• 36:04Speaker 05

  Remember that one?

• 36:05Speaker 04

  That's pretty bad.

• 36:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 36:08Speaker 05

  Who's the actor currently that makes you happy, you see them on screen, puts you in a good mood?

• 36:11Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 36:16Speaker 04

  That kid Cooper Hoffman is really, really good.

• 36:18Speaker 05

  He's good.

• 36:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's really, really good. Who else?

• 36:24Speaker 05

  Did you ever work with with Phil? No, Phil Hoffman?

• 36:26Speaker 04

  No, no, no, I mean, one of my heroes.

• 36:29Speaker 05

  Everybody, every actor worth a strike obsessed. What's your favorite Phil Hoffman performance film?

• 36:34Speaker 04

  Oh, you know, it's funny, when I was coming over on the plane, my son was watching.

• 36:40Speaker 04

  Talented Mr. Ripley.

• 36:42Speaker 05

  Great one.

• 36:43Speaker 04

  So I was like reading my book, but you know, like watching the movie with the sound off.

• 36:47Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 36:47Speaker 04

  And then Phil Simha Hoffman popped up and he's just, and I mean, in everything, every single thing. I mean, even those little sort of cameoish roles.

• 36:56Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, punch drunk love.

• 36:57Speaker 04

  Punch drunk love, I mean, he's just, he was like phenomenal.

• 37:00Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 37:00Speaker 04

  But anyway, Cooper, I think is pretty amazing.

• 37:02Speaker 05

  A movie that makes you sad?

• 37:05Speaker 04

  Oh, a movie that makes me sad. What made me cry, there was something that.

• 37:16Speaker 04

  Fuck, what was it? I can't remember.

• 37:19Speaker 05

  It's okay, it's all good.

• 37:20Speaker 04

  Good.

• 37:21Speaker 05

  Um, and or any foods lately that make you confused?

• 37:26Speaker 04

  What did I say the last?

• 37:27Speaker 05

  I don't want to give you hints, I know the answer, but.

• 37:30Speaker 04

  I don't, I, okay, here's one for you. Why do Americans put cinnamon on everything? I mean, I know I'm in Canada.

• 37:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, too much. A little cinnamon, though, no?

• 37:39Speaker 04

  I had it, I ordered some oatmeal and there was, it was just tasted a cinnamon.

• 37:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, the cinnamon is powerful, so a little goes a long way.

• 37:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I didn't ask for it.

• 37:48Speaker 05

  Don't get angry. Screaming.

• 37:53Speaker 05

  Okay cinema for the record. Um, most importantly, Steve. Yeah. Let's spread the good word one more time. Theaters, September nineteenth, I believe. Nineteenth, yeah. See it if you can in a cinema. I mean, it's always great to do that. Yes, please. And it played with a crowd for me and it's a beautiful piece of work. Uh, and then a gajillion people can see this on Netflix. On Netflix, on the third of October. October third. Yeah. Uh, congratulations, man. I really appreciate the time always. Thanks, man. And a hat next time coming your way. Okay, Catwings, something to look forward to. Thanks, buddy.

• 38:24Speaker 04

  Thanks for that.

• 38:31Speaker 00

  Get this. When you're with Xfinity, you're already a member. No sign up, no cost. Score epic experiences from our family at NBC Universal. Plus movie tickets, discounts on streaming, mobile and more. Check the Xfinity app every Thursday for exclusive perks and experiences. Only with Xfinity. Now that's the way to start a weekend. Let the magic begin. Restrictions apply. Visit Xfinity.com slash membership to learn more.

• 39:01Speaker 02

  Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games. Witness the beginning of the revolution.

• 39:05Speaker 03

  Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from the start.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  Filmed for IMAX.

• 39:10Speaker 03

  Make them remember you.

• 39:12Speaker 02

  The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Weeping, November twentieth, rated PG thirteen.

• 39:20Speaker 05

  David, Tom, it's good to see you both.

• 39:22Speaker 06

  Likewise.

• 39:23Speaker 05

  We're in Toronto. We're spreading the good word of your movie. We're hours from your premiere. No pressure. How you feeling?

• 39:29Speaker 07

  God, yeah, good.

• 39:30Speaker 06

  Good.

• 39:31Speaker 07

  I'm, I speak for myself, I'm very excited. I feel like we're with the whole team and it's like good to be reunited at Tiff.

• 39:37Speaker 06

  It is. It's such a special place, man. We're talking about movies and it's fun. So yeah, we're loving it.

• 39:42Speaker 05

  And the movie is great. I can personally attest, they gave me a sneak peek. Um, when I saw you two were gonna be together and something like this, I'm your, I've said this often, Mike, you, I'm big fans of both of yours. You're killing it. Uh, and to see you guys together in this, it's, it's a special piece of work. So, um, let's, let's talk before, uh, we get into Wasteman specifically, just like premieres. Spent all manner of premieres in your career. I would imagine some intense ones. This is gonna be a different vibe than Hunger Games or Alien premiere. What premieres in your careers have stood out that you felt kind of the pressure or excitement in your life?

• 40:16Speaker 06

  I think he might have just said it, man. I think, yeah, those kind of movies, there's a different thing that comes with them. Do you know what I mean? Like the people kind of put something on it, but this particular one is special because it feels personal almost. You know what I mean? Like small, but like we make this for nothing in eighteen days in a prison. So, yeah, this one in particular feels really special.

• 40:41Speaker 07

  Yeah, just second that. I think we've both done like probably one each of the big blockbuster things that come with like a built in fan base, which is its own pressure, you know, because you want to please them and like honor the thing they love. But this is cool because we get to like bring something completely fresh to people who have never seen it before. And it was a labor of love, so.

• 41:02Speaker 05

  It feels and it's on the screen. So you said eighteen days shot in a prison. I was gonna ask what you already shot this. This is not a soundstage. You can feel it. It's palpable.

• 41:09Speaker 07

  It's a bit of both actually, wasn't it?

• 41:10Speaker 05

  Was it really?

• 41:11Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 41:12Speaker 05

  Well, well done then. Congratulations. But talk to me like you guys are at such interesting points in your respective careers. You have a lot of exciting opportunities at your feet. And I love that you're doing something like this. That is like a smaller passion project. Give me a sense for both of you. Why, how you want to focus your efforts on something like this?

• 41:31Speaker 06

  You know, I don't know how you feel, Tom, but I really do feel like, you know, we're we feel I feel really lucky and blessed to be doing the projects I'm doing a hundred percent. But I still feel like I'm making a body of work, you know, things to feel proud of and look back on and be like, oh, I was able to do that and do this and do that. So this particular one again, it felt like something I haven't done before. And that's that that feels really gratifying. Yeah.

• 42:02Speaker 05

  Talking about someone I haven't seen, a character I haven't seen you play before. Well, you've played, you know, some not so nice folks before. But this guy's a little bit different. This guy's a pretty extreme. Is it how much of it is about the character and how much of it is about working with David? Give me a sense of.

• 42:15Speaker 07

  This is the closest part to me I've ever played.

• 42:17Speaker 05

  I was gonna say.

• 42:19Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's basically a documentary. Reality TV here while he's doing drama.

• 42:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, you had to take the tattoos off for this interview.

• 42:27Speaker 07

  Yeah, I've actually covered up the tattoos for this. No, it's like, I mean, I read the script and I was just gravitated towards Dee. I was like, I want to play that part. He's um, he's wild, he's feral, he's like, he's kind of always cooking. Like you never, even when he's quiet, I think he's most dangerous when he's quiet.

• 42:45Speaker 07

  Cause you never know what he's gonna snap at. He's just like a coiled wire. And it's so fun to play. And it's heavy, it's dark, like the stuff he does, the way he manipulates is intense. And I think we've probably spoken about this before, but I like to, I like to go to places that I would never go in, in my real life and get into the psyche of that and the why of that.

• 43:11Speaker 07

  And you know, like getting to play with David and even though like the material itself is quite heavy, um, we had a lot of fun doing it.

• 43:19Speaker 05

  I would hope so, cause you don't want to live this 24/7, even in those 18 days, that's a, that's a dark place to live. How much of it is it also about like shining the light on like this world, right? We've seen a lot of like prison dramas and, and you know, folks of different stripes that are incarcerated in the cyclical nature of the, of the system, both in the US and the UK. But I don't know, what was important for you to kind of like shine a light on for Taylor for Dee?

• 43:43Speaker 06

  Well, look, I think, I think, you know, we, we spoke a lot about this movie and what it means, cause the last thing I think you want to do when you're playing with something that feel, that is incredibly real, like the justice system is uh, be like voyeuristic and kind of make it, you know, like do playhouses with it. You don't want to do that. Exploitive, exactly. The name, the word that kept coming up quite a lot when we were rehearsing was like masculinity. And, um, and you know, these men who are in the prison system, my character in particular, it's feeling a lot, but you know, the masculinity of it kind of pushes it right down, especially

• 44:25Speaker 06

  in a pressure cooker like a prison, um, justice system. So yeah, for me, I, you know, getting into it again, like I lost some weight to play him and Tom gained some weight to play him.

• 44:38Speaker 05

  Equilibrium, you've always a constant weight.

• 44:40Speaker 07

  And now we've reversed.

• 44:43Speaker 05

  We're always three hundred pounds collective.

• 44:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, we always share a scale.

• 44:51Speaker 06

  But no, it was, you know, nonetheless, for both of us, I think, you know, it was about who these guys are on the inside. And what they can't show and therefore what, how do they act? So, yeah, that was, that was the joy of, of this and we worked with some real prisoners, you know. I'd say like about fifty to seventy five percent of the actors on our set were.

• 45:11Speaker 07

  Yeah, I'd say that like there were, there were more ex incarcerated people than, than actual actors.

• 45:17Speaker 05

  That keeps you on your toes. Like you walk into an actual prison, you're working, you're working opposite, you're staring at someone that's lived this life. You don't want to be the one fucking up.

• 45:24Speaker 07

  And it keeps you true because you don't want to be a fraud. Like, I mean, as an actor, you never want to be a fraud, but like when you're making something that is so visceral and, and like harms so many people, you know. The prison system is supposed to be about like reforming people and making them get back out into the world, but it's most of the time it's not. Most of the time it does more damage than, than, I mean, that's the, obviously like the exception to the rule. There were some prisons out there that are like experimenting with like actually helping people.

• 45:51Speaker 07

  But our film is not about one of those prisons. And so, so, yeah, it kept us true. I think like we worked with this charity called Switchback, which is a British, um, like prison reform charity and also working with people who were incarcerated. And they kind of started off as our consultants and then, and then Cal was like, we want the guys we're talking to in the film. And brought them in and are scattered throughout the film in various roles. And they all do amazing performances as well, which is crazy. But yeah, I think it just kept us honest.

• 46:21Speaker 05

  So when you know so much of this is going to rest on your partner and you've done films where, you know, whether it's Kayleigh or is that Rachel Zegler, where it's like, you've got a partner in crime. And in a different way, here you have one. Like what's, what's, I don't know if you guys knew each other or not, but like, do you suss each other out? Do you like ask mutuals? Like what's the process before you dive into working so closely together?

• 46:42Speaker 06

  Well, we, we, yeah, Tom and I, we, we, we share an agent together and we became fast friends and not only, and he's going to hate me doing this, but not only do I really respect his work. Like just a stellar person. And what we realized is, you know, when you when you go in, our film is uh it's not it's not an easy watch, you know what I mean? It's quite intense. And the work that we did, because we just said about having the the weight of like trying to make something that feels very honest and real. There was no space for like, um, we didn't fake anything, you know what I mean? Like even our fight sequences was like really real. What we realized quickly was that you need trust and and there's no one I I could have trusted or or asked to to work within this capacity than Tom.

• 47:26Speaker 06

  It was it meant everything to have someone like him, not just to be able to trust, but also like to go as deep as possible um into these characters. So, yeah.

• 47:37Speaker 07

  I do feel I feel like trust is the is kind of the word of the day with this this project, especially because, yeah, we both had to go there in different ways, right? You had to go deeply deeply into yourself to to mine out some real pain and and trauma. And I had to like push myself beyond limits I've pushed myself before and kind of bounce off the walls and be brave and be ugly. Like Dee's a pretty ugly person inside like and out sometimes, but but um.

• 48:03Speaker 05

  Never out.

• 48:08Speaker 07

  There are some ugly moments for sure. Um, and it's like it requires like not not feeling judged. And I think like, you know, definitely, we we just had each other's backs. I mean, I feel like I've got a new best mate off the back of this.

• 48:19Speaker 05

  Well, again, especially now that I know it's like literally eighteen days, like there's no room. There's you can't like figure it out on day six. Like you have to hit the ground running with trust.

• 48:26Speaker 07

  Truly. Yeah, I mean, we're texting each other all the time that we should do this. We're constantly looking for for projects to do together. So.

• 48:31Speaker 05

  So Dee's kind of like the worst imagined roommate ever. You don't want him like entering your world. It's like nightmare. Did you decide to room together for solidarity those eighteen days?

• 48:44Speaker 07

  I mean, to be fair, we probably would have eaten each other alive. So it was it was such a like go, go, go production. We did share cars on the way home and we'd like we'd kind of like, decompress after a long day.

• 48:54Speaker 05

  How do you decompress? Is there music involved? What's the what's the way that you click off of some?

• 48:58Speaker 06

  We just spoke. We just spoke, you know, yeah, you know, it it it I've got. Be honest, Josh, it is amazing making movies, man. We love it, but part of making movies is like talking about making movies. And like getting to the heart of like, you know, what is good, what is bad, what is tough and all those things. And Tom and I just, that was like, I think our bonding.

• 49:19Speaker 05

  Yeah. Okay, I want to dip into a little of that because I want to eavesdrop on what these conversations are. This is, I love this stuff too. And part of the reason I want to talk to you guys is not only, again, this great film, but like, again, where you guys are at. And I'm so excited for both of you. And you've so impressed me with what you've been doing the last few years. But like, do you, I don't know, do you swap stories, like audition stories? Like, oh my God, I had this nightmare audition. Like, I don't know, what's, what are, what are the points that actors of your stripe, where do you connect?

• 49:46Speaker 07

  I mean, we're kind of fortunate because we, we started this project like already friends and are both at kind of pretty similar places in our careers, I'd say. So, um, and we both like, I worked with Francis Lawrence on The Hunger Games and then literally straight after Wasteman, DJ went over to, to do the long walk with Francis. And so we have so many people in common, so many experiences in common. Um, and I, we could get a, we can get a glass of wine and just sit and talk all night, the two of us, like, um, so most of it is just like swapping war stories and.

• 50:15Speaker 05

  What about, uh, let me pit you guys against each other, Rada or Juilliard, which is tougher, which, which is the better training ground?

• 50:21Speaker 06

  That's really funny.

• 50:22Speaker 07

  How long were your days?

• 50:23Speaker 06

  My, my, my days were, all right, some, some days we'd lit, we'd literally go from like six AM until like 10 PM.

• 50:32Speaker 07

  Okay, fair enough. That's long. Did you work Saturdays though?

• 50:34Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 50:35Speaker 07

  Okay, fair enough.

• 50:36Speaker 06

  It's not a competition.

• 50:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 50:42Speaker 05

  You had a good run.

• 50:46Speaker 05

  Okay, so Tom, you, you're an EP on this. I know you're writing another series. I mean, again, you guys are having more and more opportunities. Like, you think about kind of like the box set of the work, it sounds like. You're like, you know, you've done the franchise thing, you're going to do more franchise things, I'm sure. But I don't know, what is the, is there, is there an actor, is there a career to emulate? Like, where are your heads at in terms of the next five, 10 years of the kind of career you want to carve out?

• 51:10Speaker 06

  Well, you know, Josh, I really do feel like, um,

• 51:15Speaker 06

  There's so many actors, people that I love and directors I would of course love to work with. Part of me is always scared to talk about them because I feel like, you know, it's like you're jinxing it. I don't know why.

• 51:26Speaker 05

  I've had a lot of history with this. Sometimes you manifest these things when you talk about it out loud. Just saying.

• 51:30Speaker 06

  I'm just far too shy, Josh. But I also feel, and Tom and I, I think we'd be open about saying this, I hope I'm not saying anything that's too personal. But we're trying to also do it a bit different, you know, and feel like you're carving out your own path. Sometimes it's so nice like meeting people that I love and being like, you know, tell me like, what should I be doing? Tell me this. And then also I'm like, ah, forget that. Do what feels right to you. So I think the juggling of that is what makes for the little things I've been doing so far.

• 52:04Speaker 07

  I mean, it's about like, and I feel like you emulate this as well. I emulate it from you is this just like looking for versatility and diversity of roles. Like never doing the same thing twice, or if you do, it's for a different reason. Yeah, I mean, we've both done the big sci fi blockbuster. We've both done rom coms now, like, you know, it's just keeping it fresh and testing yourself and seeing the limits of what you can do. And I'm just always looking to transform a little bit, even if it's micro transformations, but.

• 52:31Speaker 06

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 52:32Speaker 05

  For your next one, I'm going to probably talk to you about is people we meet on vacation, talk about it in a much different kind of a film. Are the fans of that as intense as The Hunger Games fans? Have you encountered that fandom? Do you feel connected with it?

• 52:43Speaker 07

  I'm yet to like properly find out, but I get the sense they might be more intense. I'm starting to garner that they might be a bit more intense, but in a good way, in a good way.

• 52:56Speaker 05

  I'm your friend. Please like it, like me, like me.

• 52:59Speaker 05

  Have you read, have you read the other like other Emily Henry works that you kind of dive into that world?

• 53:03Speaker 07

  I haven't read any of her other books. I just read this one while we were shooting. But yeah, I mean, honestly, it's probably not something I would have read had I not, had I not been offered the film. But then that's the beauty of this job as well is you get to discover stuff that you wouldn't otherwise. And I, I did that because I came off the back of Wasteman and plainclothes before it and two pretty intense.

• 53:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:25Speaker 07

  Experiences. Yeah. And I was just feeling quite heavy and yeah, heavy. I was feeling pretty like weighed down by them.

• 53:33Speaker 07

  And you know, not in like a self, uh, um, not taking myself too seriously, but just like, you take it with you a little bit every time you do a really heavy role and I was like, oh, I need to shake it off and do something light and fun. And was that why you did Rylan? Was that like, what was your reason for that?

• 53:47Speaker 06

  I mean, Rylan was my first movie.

• 53:49Speaker 07

  Was it your first?

• 53:50Speaker 06

  That was my first film, man. Yeah. So I just, I kind of, I didn't expect Rylan to be Rylan. I just was desperate to get into movies, you know?

• 53:58Speaker 05

  Sometimes it works out. It's no, it's no surprise. It's no surprise. Both of you have been rumored associated with like Marvel and DC projects. There was talk about you for Clayface. There's been a lot of talk about you and Marvel. Have you ever met Kevin Feige? Have you ever met Ryan Coogler, David?

• 54:15Speaker 06

  Why are we doing this, Joe?

• 54:18Speaker 05

  Because we're spreading a good word of Wasteman and this is the cost.

• 54:22Speaker 06

  No, I mean, no, I know. To be honest with you, I haven't, but, um, you know, I just, uh, I just love making movies and they've made, I never, I know, I know, I know. I know you think I'm being diplomatic. I'm not actually, I'm being honest. And you know what? You just said Ryan Coogler. Come on. I've watched Sinners like five times. And also if we're gonna do this, come on, Josh, let's go. It's Fruitvale. Like, come on.

• 54:44Speaker 05

  Well, he's three or four, four for four, whatever he's done.

• 54:46Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. So no, I just, again, those people, whatever they're doing, I'm there.

• 54:53Speaker 05

  Does the, like, if that real email comes through and says, would you want to talk about Black Panther? I mean, that's, I mean, I don't know if you ever met Chadwick, but like, I mean, talk about an icon.

• 55:02Speaker 06

  I, I, Icon.

• 55:05Speaker 05

  On and off the screen.

• 55:06Speaker 06

  On and off the screen. I, if you're genuinely gonna ask me about someone who I really do respect and lift high, Chadwick, a million times over.

• 55:17Speaker 05

  Talk about icons. I'm sure Rafe has come to you for, for help.

• 55:20Speaker 07

  Yeah, Rafe, he's, uh, he just wants to stop texting me, asking me for pointers and advice and stuff. I'm like, dude, calm down, man. Like, you're supposed to know what you're doing by now.

• 55:29Speaker 05

  What's it like to kind of pass the baton? That's kind of a crazy thing, but it's an amazing thing.

• 55:33Speaker 07

  Um, yeah, no, Rafe has not talked to me at all, uh, which I'm fine with. Uh, no, he's, he's like truly one of my heroes. So, um, and like, I just don't think, like, in terms of like British actors alive today, you don't really get better than like, than Rafe Fiennes. Um, yeah, what a crazy call. I mean, obviously I was like slightly gutted not to be coming back yet for The Hunger Games.

• 55:58Speaker 07

  And uh but at the same time, I was like, I was kind of relieved. I was like, it's nice to have some separation from it and let them go and do their thing and we'll see where it goes in the future. But um yeah, pretty cool like person to hand the mantle over.

• 56:11Speaker 05

  Pretty good. So so Wasteman style fight to the death, only one of you can be James Bond. Uh are you gonna wrestle right here, go just kill each other to for that role? Denis is doing it. It's not just James Bond. Yeah.

• 56:23Speaker 06

  That's wild. That's amazing.

• 56:25Speaker 07

  And and Stephen Knight's doing the script. Yes. Yeah, so that's that's like a recipe for success.

• 56:30Speaker 06

  We'll definitely watch it.

• 56:32Speaker 07

  We'll share it.

• 56:32Speaker 06

  Half and a half.

• 56:34Speaker 07

  Double O seven and a half.

• 56:36Speaker 05

  It's a buddy.

• 56:37Speaker 07

  It's a buddy comedy.

• 56:38Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 56:39Speaker 07

  Denis Villeneuve does a buddy comedy.

• 56:40Speaker 05

  That sounds right, yeah.

• 56:41Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, I'll take it. Yeah.

• 56:44Speaker 05

  Um you both are gonna come on Happy Second Fuse solo, so I can really dive into each of your respective careers, I promise you. Uh but we're gonna do the profoundly random questions anyway, just because I have you guys here.

• 56:53Speaker 07

  Cool.

• 56:53Speaker 05

  Some rapid fire. Um dogs or cats?

• 56:56Speaker 06

  Dogs.

• 56:56Speaker 07

  Dogs. We were just with some puppies today at the Tiff and uh yeah, we're both like fawning.

• 57:01Speaker 06

  That's why we're late.

• 57:02Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:02Speaker 05

  All you get is me sadly here. Um what do you collect, if anything?

• 57:06Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 57:07Speaker 06

  I collect lighters.

• 57:08Speaker 07

  Do you?

• 57:09Speaker 06

  Big lighter fan.

• 57:10Speaker 07

  I just got my first Zippo off the back of a job as like a as a.

• 57:13Speaker 05

  Like a rap.

• 57:14Speaker 07

  Uh yeah, rap gift. Um but I don't really collect anything anymore. I used to collect rocks as a kid. Yeah.

• 57:19Speaker 05

  Uh do either of you have a favorite video game of all time?

• 57:22Speaker 06

  GTA.

• 57:23Speaker 07

  I was gonna say Grand Theft Auto II. Yeah, yeah. Not that we can do in violence, but you know, it's it's uh.

• 57:29Speaker 06

  We've just made them very violent.

• 57:30Speaker 07

  Yeah, that's true.

• 57:32Speaker 05

  Have you seen Wasteman?

• 57:33Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:34Speaker 06

  But we don't, you're right, we don't get no violence, sorry.

• 57:36Speaker 07

  No, no, no.

• 57:37Speaker 05

  Um Dakota Johnson Memorial Question, she asked me this. I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 57:44Speaker 07

  One bee in my butt, I think? Good question.

• 57:49Speaker 06

  That's existential, isn't it?

• 57:50Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 57:51Speaker 06

  Blimey.

• 57:51Speaker 07

  Wait, is this forever? Are they there forever?

• 57:54Speaker 05

  Sure, it's gonna be there forever.

• 57:55Speaker 07

  Oh god.

• 57:56Speaker 05

  Let's go there.

• 57:56Speaker 07

  That's a different question.

• 57:57Speaker 06

  I'll do I'll I'll do bee in my butt.

• 57:59Speaker 07

  Bee in the butt. It might even be invigorating.

• 58:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, who knows? Never say never, right?

• 58:04Speaker 05

  A little pep in your stuff.

• 58:04Speaker 07

  Yeah, you don't want any coffee anymore.

• 58:07Speaker 05

  What's the wallpaper on your phones?

• 58:11Speaker 07

  Mine's my girlfriend.

• 58:12Speaker 06

  Mine's mine, the same. Mine's me.

• 58:15Speaker 05

  Not his girlfriend.

• 58:18Speaker 07

  Just to clarify.

• 58:19Speaker 06

  Just to clarify, he keeps trying to break us up.

• 58:21Speaker 07

  I know, I know. Mine's my girlfriend, David.

• 58:25Speaker 05

  Last actor either of you were mistaken for?

• 58:27Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 58:29Speaker 07

  Sorry.

• 58:30Speaker 06

  Tom has a good one.

• 58:31Speaker 07

  I was mistaken for Paul today.

• 58:33Speaker 05

  Paul Menasco?

• 58:34Speaker 07

  Paul Menasco, yeah, because we were both coming in and out at the same time. Um, and maybe dressed slightly similar, but like he came in, I went out like, and someone was like, Paul? And I was like, nope. And he was like, oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, uh, there were worse people.

• 58:47Speaker 05

  There are worse people.

• 58:48Speaker 06

  I mean, he's great. I've, I've, I've got, I, I, I've got, have, get mistaken for Damsen Idris sometimes. And he is brilliant, man. Killing it. So, uh, uh, fine, fine.

• 59:00Speaker 05

  Fine. Brad Pitt's my best friend too, yeah.

• 59:05Speaker 05

  What's the worst noted director has ever given you?

• 59:09Speaker 06

  Worst and best note actually was Do It Better.

• 59:16Speaker 06

  Someone actually said to me, do it better. And I was like, terrible note, but I was also like, yeah, I think I can. So I did.

• 59:22Speaker 07

  Yeah. Sometimes, sometimes that is actually what you need, to be fair. Yeah, mine would be like, when they go bigger. I'm like, yeah, but bigger how? You know?

• 59:31Speaker 05

  Right.

• 59:31Speaker 07

  That's always a tricky one.

• 59:32Speaker 05

  A lot of different ways to joke about it.

• 59:33Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:34Speaker 05

  Um, and then in the spirit of happy, say confused. An actor who always makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're instantly in a better mood.

• 59:42Speaker 07

  Jack Black, I suppose, is a good one for that, for happy, yeah.

• 59:45Speaker 06

  Seth Rogen.

• 59:46Speaker 07

  Ah, yeah.

• 59:47Speaker 06

  I'm just obsessed with him, man.

• 59:48Speaker 05

  Movie that makes you sad?

• 59:53Speaker 07

  Oh my goodness. The Boy in the Striped Pajamas. I know that's such a basic answer, but it is just like the saddest film ever. Yeah.

• 59:59Speaker 06

  Uh, Carol.

• 1:00:01Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:02Speaker 05

  Good one. Nice. Uh, and a food that makes you confused?

• 1:00:06Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 1:00:06Speaker 05

  You don't get it. Why do people eat that?

• 1:00:07Speaker 07

  Oh my God, oysters.

• 1:00:10Speaker 06

  I love an oyster.

• 1:00:10Speaker 07

  No, I do like them, but then sometimes they're just so fishy.

• 1:00:13Speaker 06

  I hear you.

• 1:00:14Speaker 07

  Yeah, I had a bad experience in Louisiana with an oyster.

• 1:00:17Speaker 05

  That sounds like the beginning of like a song or some sort of.

• 1:00:20Speaker 07

  The name of my memoir.

• 1:00:22Speaker 06

  He was just about to pull the guitar out, wasn't he?

• 1:00:23Speaker 07

  It's like a Tom Petty song.

• 1:00:27Speaker 06

  I would say, yeah, pineapples on pizzas. Oh, no.

• 1:00:32Speaker 05

  That's a dividing line.

• 1:00:33Speaker 06

  Come on.

• 1:00:33Speaker 05

  That's like cilantro for people, yeah.

• 1:00:35Speaker 07

  Where do you stand?

• 1:00:36Speaker 05

  I'm OK with both cilantro and pine. I mean, I wouldn't ever order it.

• 1:00:39Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:00:40Speaker 05

  But I don't mind it.

• 1:00:40Speaker 06

  Fine, fine.

• 1:00:41Speaker 07

  Do you have the soapy mouth thing with cilantro? You know, that's a thing.

• 1:00:45Speaker 06

  Yeah, yes, I have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it.

• 1:00:48Speaker 05

  Me too.

• 1:00:48Speaker 06

  Also, we don't say cilantro.

• 1:00:50Speaker 07

  What do we call that again?

• 1:00:51Speaker 06

  Coriander.

• 1:00:51Speaker 07

  Coriander, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:52Speaker 06

  He's been working in America quite a lot.

• 1:00:54Speaker 05

  I was gonna say, which, where are you?

• 1:00:56Speaker 07

  I'm confused and happy and sad.

• 1:00:59Speaker 05

  There it is. He just earned his next booking on the podcast.

• 1:01:02Speaker 07

  Thank you so much.

• 1:01:03Speaker 06

  I set him up, I set him up.

• 1:01:05Speaker 05

  You both are coming back. Congratulations. Waste Man is exceptional. I know it's gonna get distribution soon, so the rest of the world can see it. And it's good to catch up with you guys.

• 1:01:13Speaker 06

  Josh, thank you so much. A pleasure, really.

• 1:01:16Speaker 07

  Cheers.

• 1:01:16Speaker 06

  Thank you, guys.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't supposed to do this by Josh.