Alden Ehrenreich, Vol. II

Welcome Alden Ehrenreich back to the pod! Josh and Alden go way back–back to Alden’s first press tour with Francis Ford Coppola in 2009. Alden visits HSC in honor of his new film, A TALENT FOR MURDER, and also chats about the SPIDER-MAN audition he blew, fighting for his role in Zach Cregger’s WEAPONS, how he feels about SOLO today, and how he couldn’t make it through that now iconic scene with Ralph Fiennes in HAIL, CAESAR! without laughing. Plus, his time in the MCU, why Christopher Nolan’s OPPENHEIMER set was unlike any other, how he really feels about Instagram, and more! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠ ⁠#rulapod⁠ Quince -- Go to ⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Josh Horowitz?

  Are you friends now with Jeff Bridges by association?

• 1:02Speaker 03

  Never met him. He's my dad. Yeah, I've never met him. I met Adam Driver once, who's technically my son.

• 1:11Josh Horowitz?

  They grow up so fast. He's so tall.

• 1:13Speaker 03

  They grow up so fast. That's right. Yeah.

• 1:15Speaker 04

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 1:23Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Today on the show, it's Alden Ehrenreich from Coppola to Han Solo to his new film with Helen Mirren, A Talent for Murder. This is a fun one. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. Remember, hit that subscribe button on YouTube, on Spotify, however you're doing it, it's all good. And remember, check out our Patreon if you like what we do over here. Support us over there. Patreon.com/happy sad confused. You get early access to all our episodes, bonus materials, access to our live events. We have a ton of live events in New York City coming up the next few months. Check it out. It's all on Patreon. Like I said, it helps us make more stuff over here. That's a good cause, right? Okay. Alden Ehrenreich, let's talk about him. He's technically been on the podcast before, but really never for the deep dive.

• 2:07Josh Horowitz?

  He was on in the early pandemic days. It was virtual then, and we really weren't talking like full career then. So this was a good opportunity to do the deep dive with somebody that I actually go really way back with, as you'll hear from Alden. I talked to him for his very first film 17 years ago. Apparently, I didn't realize this. It was his first day of press when he made his film debut, being directed by none other than Francis Ford Coppola in Tetra. And since then, he has collected an amazing array of filmmakers, whether it's Park Chan Wook or the Coen Brothers. I mean, this guy just always nails it. He was amazing in Hail Caesar. We talk about that famously iconic scene with the Rafe Fiennes. And of course, the whole Han Solo episode, we talk about that, a little bit of Marvel,

• 2:52Josh Horowitz?

  his theater company. He's absolutely killing it. He's amazing in this new film. It's called A Talent for Murder. It is a fictionalized version of a story involving Richard Highsmith, who you may know as the author of The Talented Mr. Ripley. It's a really juicy role for Alden, and he absolutely eats it up. And he's, he's got a ton going on. He won the Tony just a few months back for an amazing performance in Becky Shaw. He's got a theater company out in LA. He's about to start shooting Miami Vice 85, which I'm so psyched about. And we cover all of it in this episode. So let's get right to the main event. Without any further ado, here is me and Mr. Alden Ehrenreich. Enjoy. Hey, Alden.

• 3:31Speaker 03

  Hey.

• 3:32Josh Horowitz?

  Welcome to the podcast.

• 3:33Speaker 03

  Thank you very much.

• 3:34Josh Horowitz?

  It's good to see you, buddy.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  Good to see you too.

• 3:36Josh Horowitz?

  This is kind of the official first, like Happy Sad Confused appearance for you. You were on Pandemic Times. It was virtual.

• 3:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:42Josh Horowitz?

  I consider this the real deal.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  I think so. All those Zoom promotional things were kind of like, like a bunch of people after an apocalypse, kind of like gathering rubble together.

• 3:53Josh Horowitz?

  Not kind of, it was that.

• 3:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:56Josh Horowitz?

  Congratulations on all the things. We're going to dive into it all today. A Talent for Murder is the film. I mean, there's a lot going on for you right now. So you got A Talent for Murder. You're about to go into production on a film I'm already obsessed with, Miami Vice 85.

• 4:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:09Josh Horowitz?

  Great title.

• 4:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, it is good. It is good.

• 4:12Josh Horowitz?

  And you've got, you've got theater going on back home, which is the real, like, kind of like the true passion project. So what, what portion of the brain is devoted to what right now as you sit here today? Like, where are you at?

• 4:22Speaker 03

  It is, it is navigating every, like, moment to moment, trying to like, not try to do 16 things at once.

• 4:29Josh Horowitz?

  Are you good at multitasking? Or are you kind of like a single?

• 4:32Speaker 03

  I think I'm effective at it, but I don't know that I'm good at it in the sense that it makes my life feel bad. You know, like, it's very hard to do lots of things at once. It's not really. So right now is, yeah, promoting this film. We, here on station opens in a week with our first play.

• 4:51Josh Horowitz?

  This is lungs, is that going to be the first?

• 4:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's with Zoe Lister Jones and Ashley Zuckerman. And then, and then I start Miami Vice on Monday.

• 5:02Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. Okay, we're going to get to all of that.

• 5:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:04Josh Horowitz?

  Before that, you sat down, you actually mentioned something that I wanted to mention.

• 5:07Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 5:08Josh Horowitz?

  Which is, I mean, this is the, the beauty of doing this as long as I've done it, is history. And we have like really cool history.

• 5:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. You were, I think, like, it was definitely the first day of press I'd ever done in my life. So I was 19. So that's however many years ago.

• 5:23Josh Horowitz?

  17 years ago.

• 5:24Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 5:25Josh Horowitz?

  I got a photo. You ready?

• 5:26Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah.

• 5:26Josh Horowitz?

  Let's, let's show it. This is Alden, me, and this guy named Francis.

• 5:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:32Josh Horowitz?

  Francis Ford Coppola.

• 5:33Speaker 03

  Wow, that's amazing. So how old are you?

• 5:37Josh Horowitz?

  I'm so ancient already.

• 5:38Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 5:39Josh Horowitz?

  I'm 50 now. I was 33.

• 5:40Speaker 03

  You are?

• 5:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 5:41Speaker 03

  Oh, wow. Okay. So you're, yeah, I'm 19. And I, you know, that was the first day of press I'd ever done. I remember sitting with Francis in like a holding suite before we started and saying like, I don't know how to do this.

• 5:57Josh Horowitz?

  Nobody, nobody ever told me how to do this.

• 5:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, there was no, well, like, the machinery around promotion was actually really not at all the same, at least in the corner of the world I was. And I remember him saying this thing that I still think about, which is like, you just talk to the person. It's just like each person that comes in is just a different person. You just talk to them.

• 6:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:16Speaker 03

  But I'm wearing what I wore to high school. I'm wearing a jacket I wear in the movie. And I'm wearing, I have no makeup. I have no hair, no stuff. And slowly, I remember the next movie I did, I think I showed up like that and they were like, haha.

• 6:31Josh Horowitz?

  Let's talk.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  And then six people came in and they got all these clothes and stuff. And then I looked like a dork for a few years.

• 6:38Josh Horowitz?

  Then you were like, I'm not playing myself anymore.

• 6:40Speaker 03

  Exactly. It was stupid. And then you get back into, you know, coming back to yourself a little bit.

• 6:46Josh Horowitz?

  Did it take you a while? I mean, it's such a, it's such an odd way to start a career, that kind of experience.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  Tetra.

• 6:53Josh Horowitz?

  Tetra.

• 6:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:54Josh Horowitz?

  That film, that was, I mean, to call it a huge film, it wasn't like a giant budget film, but it was a big fucking deal. It was Francis coming back to filmmaking after all these years.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 7:04Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, you were a smart guy. You were like, weren't it even for like a young man? Like, did you have a sense of like the import of that moment?

• 7:11Speaker 03

  Completely. I mean, it was, it was the fruition of every dream I ever had. Like, I got a movie when I was 15 and I had an instinct and I was like, I don't want to do this movie because I, I had this dream, this kind of very grandiose thing of like, Montgomery Clift's first film was a place in the sun. James Dean's was East of Eden. I want to like have a great first film. Francis was like my favorite filmmaker. And, and, and the movies and plays that that film was kind of referencing, like, which is like Glass Menagerie and Streetcar Named Desire and all this. I remember standing at a window and Francis blasting the Streetcar Named Desire score, like, to surprise me.

• 7:53Speaker 03

  And he had not only directed movies that I loved, but also brought, sort of ushered in a generation of actors who were the actors that made me want to do this. Pacino and Duval and James Caan and reviving Brando's career. And so it was like sitting with him in Argentina. We had no set, we had no trailers. I kind of lived with him and I'd just sit with him and talk and ask him about film. And he was the most benevolent sort of, you know, maestro that he possibly, and still is, I still call him all the time.

• 8:24Josh Horowitz?

  Is he still in your life a bit?

• 8:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I still, I see him a couple of times a year and I go and stay with him sometimes and ask him about filmmaking. And he's, he's, he's the greatest and he's, he is the north star in my whole career in terms of like, how much he cares about art and his courage, basically.

• 8:43Josh Horowitz?

  He, he did the podcast for Megalopolis and it was, it was a moment.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  Was it?

• 8:47Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, for all the reasons you say, what he means to all of us, and he's still so engaged and so passionate. And the way he does it is so unusual. And like, Megalopolis, for all its flaws, I like, love the fucking big swing of it all.

• 9:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 9:02Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know, did you see the doc of the making of it?

• 9:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:04Josh Horowitz?

  Obsessed.

• 9:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. There's a, there's a comfort he has with weirdness and with things that now would make people very uptight, that he has just, he's just doesn't, it doesn't bother him. He, I remember him saying once, like, there's no such thing as too crazy. Like, people come onto his sets and Dennis Hopper and whoever, Mickey Rourke and, and people who would, who are kind of notorious for certain kinds of behavior. And he would, he just, it's not like he didn't, we, there's footage of him in Apocalypse Now losing his temper, but, but he doesn't see that as a problem. It's like, that's a feature of this life and art making, not a bug, you know?

• 9:41Josh Horowitz?

  Well, and it's all play. Like, he, like, he, the, the games he kind of engages in, he, you know, whether you're Dennis Hopper or, you know, you're doing your first film, you're all playing Soundball and those silly games.

• 9:53Speaker 03

  All of that.

• 9:53Josh Horowitz?

  All of it.

• 9:54Speaker 03

  And that was, made it so comfortable because I was, it was almost an extension of what I was doing in high school theater. So, yeah, he's like, he's the well I go back to.

• 10:03Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, you have collected filmmakers like fricking Pokemon cards. Like, I mean, it's kind of insane to look at the filmmakers you've worked with. You know, it's, you know, Park Chan Wook, it's the Coens, it's Zach Craig or it's Nolan, Warren Beatty.

• 10:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:18Josh Horowitz?

  You can just say Warren.

• 10:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:20Josh Horowitz?

  And now Anton Corbin, who also, you know, singular, singular filmmaker.

• 10:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:26Josh Horowitz?

  A method to the madness, was that kind of like the guiding principle for you in these last like 17 years since I first saw you?

• 10:33Speaker 03

  I think the tone was certainly set with Francis, but filmmakers are the, how good a filmmaker is, is how good of an experience you have making the movie, I think. And like,

• 10:45Speaker 03

  You know, you don't have control over how the movie comes out, but the experience itself, if you're working with somebody who's really talented, it's just gonna be a great time.

• 10:54Josh Horowitz?

  You're gonna get something out of it regardless. So you can't control the outcome, but you.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, you feel like you're in good hands. And I think like, my favorite natural disposition as an actor on set is to just be like, aye aye, sir. Like, whatever you want. Like, I'm here, you tell me where to go, you tell me where to stand, I'm happy to do that.

• 11:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So this one, let's start with the town from Earth, then we'll circle back around. So this one, I can see all the reasons to do this for, you know, you've got Anton as a director. You've got, you know, this is a fictionalized kind of story, Patricia Highsmith, great, great author, of course. You've got Dame Helen Mirren, Olivia, who was just here.

• 11:30Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 11:30Josh Horowitz?

  She's the best.

• 11:31Speaker 03

  She's great. Yeah.

• 11:33Josh Horowitz?

  So this one kind of happens in fits and starts. It's like, oh, go project, we're about to go, go, go, rehearsal, dies, goes away.

• 11:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 11:40Josh Horowitz?

  How often does that happen, by the way? Is that happened to you?

• 11:42Speaker 03

  It's never happened to me before, like this.

• 11:44Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 11:44Speaker 03

  I, we were like, two weeks away from starting when it fell apart. So we were like, ready to go, packing up, saying goodbye. And then it was like, the movie is not happening.

• 11:53Josh Horowitz?

  And you'd already done some rehearsal with Helen?

• 11:54Speaker 03

  We did a week of rehearsal in a hotel room with, with Anton and Helen, because the movie is so much this chamber piece, kind of battle of wills, it's kind of two-hander play, and so much of it is based on this play that's very much that. So we had done that, and gone around this hotel room with a spatula that we used as like a knife, and as flowers, and as all these different things. And then we, yeah, movie is gone. And so for a year, it was like, all right, well, maybe that comes back, maybe it doesn't.

• 12:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, like, where are you at as an actor? Are you like, just like, flushing out of your mind? Or is it lingering, like, you know, do you go on to the next? Or do you still have that?

• 12:29Speaker 03

  No, I was just like, yeah, this isn't happening. I'm done. So I think I did Weapons after that? Like, I think in the beginning of the, I think that's right. I think, I think I did, which maybe I wouldn't have been able to do, actually, now that I'm thinking of it.

• 12:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 12:46Speaker 03

  And I just let it go, you know, you just have to, you have to get, I'm not great at it, but you have to get as good as you can at letting things go on almost every level as an actor, because.

• 12:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, auditions too. It's like, you go in and you start to imagine the future, and then you're like, oh, that was, nope, I guess that one's not for me.

• 13:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I used to take my sides and throw them away in the trash can after every audition, because you just have to go like, this is done.

• 13:09Josh Horowitz?

  Physical gesture.

• 13:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, or you get a movie that you're hoping is gonna be great, and you love it, and it's your dream movie for five years, and you make it, and then it comes out poorly, you know, like, and you see it, and you go, oh, so.

• 13:20Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that's your, what was, what was your, your would be Twilight? That was gonna be the franchise that you're gonna be in.

• 13:25Speaker 03

  Beautiful creatures, yeah.

• 13:26Josh Horowitz?

  You've honestly, you've had it a couple of times. They're like, this is the next 10 years of my life.

• 13:29Speaker 03

  I've been told so many times, like, oh, you're not gonna be able to leave the house after this.

• 13:33Josh Horowitz?

  This is it. Alden, you ready?

• 13:34Speaker 03

  I think I can still leave the house, you know, like, it's like.

• 13:37Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, the beauty is now, having done it for a while, it's like, hopefully you have some perspective on it. And you're like, I'm gonna be fine. It's gonna be fine.

• 13:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:45Josh Horowitz?

  Whether this turns into a thing or not.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Early on, it feels like you live and die by it. It's over. And it is a long, the long game is something you kind of learn to. You can know that, but until you, until you really live it, and go up and down with it, it's, you don't, you don't really know that it's, you're gonna get to keep working.

• 14:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So this one, again, and I know you talked a little bit spoilers, maybe it's not spoiling too much, but like, it's enticing for you as an actor too, I imagine, because you're essentially, we get to see you, nice guy, and then bit of a sociopath, to say the least.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

• 14:20Josh Horowitz?

  How big a factor is that? Like, like, reading the script, like, oh, first, third, great, but like, then it gets juicy.

• 14:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was, I mean, it was, that was a big part of the appeal. It was like getting to play two roles, getting to play two very, very different parts. One, that's kind of a version of myself of maybe when I was more like 24 or something. It's kind of eager, hungry, young editor. And then getting to play someone who, like, basically someone who's really afraid and doesn't feel a lot of personal authority, and is really anxious about what everybody thinks of them. And then somebody who doesn't care at all about what people think of them.

• 14:56Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 14:57Speaker 03

  And I got to go here, I went to a, I'm playing like a publisher in it, and so I'm, or an editor. So I went to a publishing house here, and, and spent time with people who, who did that for a living, which was really, really interesting. I, I ended up at the publishing house that, that published Patricia Highsmith's work.

• 15:15Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, wow.

• 15:16Speaker 03

  And spending time with editors who were kind of my age, and were doing the job my character was doing.

• 15:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 15:21Speaker 03

  And getting to understand what their lives were like, and the bars that they go to after work, and what going to an opening. I mean, I know what that's like for show business.

• 15:31Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  But it, it was, it was the equivalent. And there was also a similar way in which, like, novels and literature become this thing that they're kind of trading and selling in certain ways, which is just innate to the, the business of any art form, I suppose.

• 15:46Josh Horowitz?

  It's, it's interesting. I mean, I love both sides of this film, like, the, the first part, that kind of two-hander with, with Helen. I mean, it reminds me in some ways of like, I don't know if you remember, like, the, it was a play turned into a movie, Death Trap. It was like, it was for Rita, Michael Caine. Look it up. I think you'll like it. It's a twisty-turny kind of a.

• 16:01Speaker 03

  What's the one that's Olivier and?

• 16:04Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, it was remade. Bronn had Sleuth.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  Sleuth.

• 16:07Josh Horowitz?

  Sleuth.

• 16:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 16:08Josh Horowitz?

  Bronn had them, did a remake of it. Or even a little misery vibes, a little bit of some stuff here.

• 16:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

• 16:14Josh Horowitz?

  More Happy, Say Confused, coming up.

• 16:21Speaker 00

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• 17:24Josh Horowitz?

  Um, let's, let's jump to the play, because we were gonna talk for Becky Shaw.

• 17:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right? That, that didn't happen.

• 17:31Speaker 03

  That's when I thought I had my days free, and so, of course, I'll go do all these things. And then I was like, I can't, yeah.

• 17:37Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it was all for a good cause, because, I mean, as you know, I saw the show, it was amazing. In fact, the last time I saw you before, I saw you this week, was at a swanky after-party after the Tonys. You were holding that Tony.

• 17:49Speaker 03

  Right.

• 17:49Josh Horowitz?

  I saw a very happy man, relieved and saying, it's time, I'm gonna get a drink on, because it's been a while. Talk to me about, like, I don't know, at the end of that road, the intensity of finally making your Broadway debut, and then, I mean, living every actor's dream and holding that Tony.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's wild. It doesn't totally feel real. This is the first time I've been back to New York since I did it. And I've loved theater my whole life. It's part of, it's a big part of why I became an actor. I had a theater company when I was in my twenties, and I'm opening a theater, and I'd never been in a professional play. And so it was like, and I'd tried many, many times, and there were things that came along that I didn't want to do, and then there's things I really wanted that I didn't get.

• 18:36Speaker 03

  For years, like, in college, I was auditioning for Broadway shows and stuff. And this came along, and I just, there's certain roles where you read the words, and you go, I can't wait to just say this. Like, I just know what this is, and I know where it lives, and I just, and maybe there's a party that wants to express itself through that. And, and then I got to work with great people, and it was, you know, you don't, you know, you have no idea how it's, it's incredible hard work. My admiration for theater actors is like, it was always high, it is tenfold what it was, because the amount of work that they

• 19:16Speaker 03

  do, for the amount of money they get, is compared to what I've seen people do, who are getting paid huge amounts of money on film sets.

• 19:25Josh Horowitz?

  The proportions are all off.

• 19:26Speaker 03

  It's crazy. I mean, and these people are also.

• 19:29Josh Horowitz?

  Too. It's also just like a physical head game. It's all of it. It's.

• 19:33Speaker 03

  When I looked at people doing Death of a Salesman, and I looked at like, you know, people who are a lot older than I am, and doing it, I'm like, how, it's unbelievable what people are, the sort of blood people are spilling in a way to do this stuff. And, and, and also, like, you know, going back to the, that generation of actors, like, the movies of the seventies, kind of like 50, Kazan world, and then seventies, is why I became an actor. And the, the thing that was true of all those actors, they started in, in theater. And so there was like a rigor to the way they worked, and there was a kind of thought, there was a passion about craft, and there was a thing. So it felt very meaningful. I mean, I remember getting to see, like, the published version of Becky Shaw afterwards,

• 20:17Speaker 03

  and I've read thousands of plays. And to have my name in the, in the beginning of it was really, you know, that was the first time I'd ever seen that.

• 20:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, no, I mean, it strikes me, you talk about those kind of actors. It's like, I love the ones that also just keep coming back. It's like Pacino, like, he has to do it. It's like in his blood.

• 20:32Speaker 03

  Denzel, yep, yep. They love it. They love it.

• 20:36Josh Horowitz?

  When I rewatched your, your, your acceptance speech, and, like, you always strike me as kind of like a confident, kind of like, comfortable in your own skin guy. I saw.

• 20:44Speaker 03

  No, not always.

• 20:45Josh Horowitz?

  No? Okay, well, you're a good actor, you're a good actor.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  In and out, yeah.

• 20:47Josh Horowitz?

  Your, your, your hand was shaking a little bit. I saw the, holding.

• 20:50Speaker 03

  Well, I have a tremor.

• 20:52Josh Horowitz?

  Seriously?

• 20:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, like, yeah, my hand is always shaking.

• 20:55Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so never mind.

• 20:56Speaker 03

  So, yeah, yeah. Like, in middle school, I had to be like, I'm not that nervous, I swear to God.

• 21:01Josh Horowitz?

  That's so funny.

• 21:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's just a benign tremor that's kind of always there. But I'm sure it was exacerbated by that thing. And the, and, and, and the intensity of doing the play, you know, yeah, it's, it definitely brings up a lot of stuff. It's intense.

• 21:18Josh Horowitz?

  Was it emotional, though? Like, you know, thanking your mom, who obviously was like, you know, essentially had to raise you as a single mom, right of horrible circumstances, I know, growing up, like, did she introduce you to the arts in some way?

• 21:30Speaker 03

  Very much so. Yeah, my mom and my nana, who really brought me up, like, they.

• 21:37Speaker 03

  They both, neither of them were in the industry and they had a kind of, you know, very 20th century idolatry of like film stars and film and all that stuff. So there were like the MGM story, which is like the book that they would publish of all the stars and stuff like, all that stuff was around all the time. And when I was like nine or 10, it was, you know, you might remember this, it was like, kind of like Y2K moment and all, People Magazine and all these magazines would all just put out like the 100 greatest movie stars and all this stuff. So I remember there was just such a, like an almost religion around that, which isn't great to have. So that, you know, there's, it's not a, it's not the ideal thing.

• 22:20Speaker 03

  And then I've gotten to meet so many of these people. And so, yeah, it was very, very emotional. As I was walking up on the stage, I really was like, don't miss this.

• 22:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, be in the moment.

• 22:34Speaker 03

  Be here, actually see whatever it is. I don't know that enjoyment is going to be available, but it was an end of the, it was the end of the night. It was like one of the last awards. I've been kind of sitting, you do a show that day, right? So like, you've done a show, the, the end of the show is very emotional. So I always leave a little shaky from that. And then, and then I just was walking up on stage and I was like, you know, be here for the thing. And I, I, I felt like to the best of my ability, I was able to be there for that and, and, and speak to honestly, sort of like my version of a God, which is just like an ability to surrender myself to the present moment. And I was like, you know, like athletes

• 23:17Speaker 03

  and stuff, thanking Jesus and stuff. I was like, that felt like it made a huge difference. When I did the play and it was terrifying and very, very, very scary, like beyond what I anticipated, actually, I had to give myself over to something to just have, like it, when inside you feel like I can't, there's just no way I could possibly do this. And finding a way to sort of surrender in that moment did feel like being in a relationship to, you know, some version of a higher power or something. And so it was like, I, you know,

• 23:56Josh Horowitz?

  Especially in that room, you're surrounded, it's, it's kind of church for actors, that room.

• 23:59Speaker 03

  Absolutely, absolutely. And, and, and so many of the circumstances that I've been in, I mean, in many different places in life and in work, it's like you, you put your, you end up in circumstances that feel like you're completely out of your depth. And so how do you navigate that? How do you get through that? And so that thing, whatever that is, that I don't understand what it is, but that felt like it was there for me through the play. And, and I, and it was, it was, it was, and I was like, that's a thing to thank, you know?

• 24:30Josh Horowitz?

  It's funny, you, you alluded to something that I often think even from my side of things too, which is like, I feel like my job often is like being very present in the moment and also kind of like acknowledging where I'm at, but also silencing the part of my brain that doesn't, can't compute that I'm with Francis Ford Coppola.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 24:48Josh Horowitz?

  With these people. And you've had this repeatedly throughout your career with like the greatest actors, the greatest filmmakers.

• 24:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:55Josh Horowitz?

  And it is just sort of like this strange like schism you have to have, right? Like, you want to be present, you want to treat everybody like a human being, but you also, part of your brain just can't compute it.

• 25:07Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I always felt like over time Francis became Francis.

• 25:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:14Speaker 03

  Over time, you know, whoever it is, and you, you now my association with them is different. And it's the fact, it's the living fact, because the other thing we're experiencing is this other kind of alchemy that happens when somebody's either a public figure or, or, or an actor you're experiencing on screen is that's, that's them as a sort of mythic figure that's, you know, and it's, it's not, not real. It's clearly really powerful, but it's not who they are as a person, you know?

• 25:41Josh Horowitz?

  Did that go away for Warren? Because like the, the famous thing about Warren Beatty is that he spends so much time with his actors before, like he probably spent, I mean, I talked to Lily about this too, like on and off, months, maybe years.

• 25:53Speaker 03

  Five years.

• 25:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. Five years from 19, so I met him, excuse me, I'm throwing things. From 19, so like right when I,

• 26:02Josh Horowitz?

  Met Warren Beatty pretty soon.

• 26:04Speaker 03

  I met him after Tetra and he was like, he had seen Tetra and we went to the sushi restaurant that he takes all the ladies to, ladies being us young actors. And, and he, and he was like, you know, I think you're really good and, and I'd like you to be in this movie. And then, you know, that was being said to, you know, everybody.

• 26:29Josh Horowitz?

  He famously did talk to a lot of people, but hey, you ended up in it.

• 26:31Speaker 03

  I was too young for it, but I, five years later, I wasn't as young, so.

• 26:35Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, is that one of those things where like movie, if you love or hate it, whatever, it almost doesn't matter. You have the Warren Beatty life experience of being a part of his world and hearing the stories and seeing how he just carries himself.

• 26:48Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 26:49Josh Horowitz?

  A singular experience.

• 26:50Speaker 03

  Yes, very much so. And, and again, like I just couldn't believe that I got to, the thing with Warren is that he started in, I think, 1964, maybe? I forget when Splendor in the Grass is, but he started in the end of old Hollywood.

• 27:06Josh Horowitz?

  Studios system.

• 27:07Speaker 03

  So I had spent all this time with Coppola, but like Coppola really, you know, was the person at the head of the front lines of the new Hollywood. Warren was there for old, Warren was friends with Jack Warner and people like that. So it was getting to, and, and loved.

• 27:23Josh Horowitz?

  Under contract to a studio, that old kind of style.

• 27:25Speaker 03

  All of that. So I got to talk to him about like, and he loved to talk about it, you know? And so we would have meetings that would be really like, I think the longest one was nine hours. But it'd be full day things where I was basically like an apprentice to him, learning about, you know, and he knew I wanted to make my own films. And so it was like a lot of talk about that and a lot of talk about Ilya Kazan, who was to me is the Mount Rushmore of the kind of acting I consider myself a part of. And so he, Ilya Kazan put him in his first movie, you know, and did sort of what Francis did for me, for Warren. So it was, it was a shocking, it was an education and it was crazy. I mean, it was a kind of eccentricity that doesn't exist anymore in Hollywood. Yeah.

• 28:10Josh Horowitz?

  I love it. More Happy, Say Confused coming up.

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• 29:21Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. So in the, in the wake of Tetra, as you start to get opportunities, meetings with Warren Beatty, et cetera, which took a while to get there, but you got there. Famously you did go up for Spider-Man. Correct me if I'm wrong.

• 29:33Speaker 03

  Yes, I went up for, I think it's that, I went up for the Andrew Garfield Spider-Man.

• 29:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  I remember him coming, walking in when I was walking out.

• 29:43Josh Horowitz?

  How did the audition go? Did you feel like, because I think, I mean, according to reports, you were, you were close. You were actually a top two or three, I think.

• 29:50Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 29:51Josh Horowitz?

  Or we'll never know, but.

• 29:52Speaker 03

  I don't know. I, in that moment, really didn't want to do it, to be honest.

• 29:58Speaker 03

  And I think, you know, I, for whatever reason, I just was like, I don't.

• 30:04Josh Horowitz?

  Just like signing your life away kind of a thing or?

• 30:06Speaker 03

  I guess so. I think it was also where I was at, like internally and I, and I, at that moment, clearly they created, I've actually never seen it, but clearly they created something that like breathed, breathed new life into it. But all that existed at that time, now we're in this moment where 18 people have played Spider-Man, but all that at this, at that time was the Tobey Maguire. And I, and it seemed like it was the same story. So I was like,

• 30:32Josh Horowitz?

  Why are we even doing this?

• 30:33Speaker 03

  A little bit. And I, and I, but I felt like I had to audition for it.

• 30:38Speaker 03

  And I um, I don't, I'm not suggesting that I would have gotten the role. I think, I think Andrew Garfield is like one of the best actors in my generation. Easily. He's incredible and I'm sure he would have gotten it anyway. But I showed up woefully unprepared for that in a way that I would never do later. Like I was 22, I think, or 21 and I kind of showed up not memorized. And got there and there was a full set. There was, there was a scene with 10 actors having dinner and they were off book and I was not. And um, and so I, you know, I, I sort of, if I did have a chance for that, then I, I think I uh, blew that up.

• 31:20Josh Horowitz?

  And that was self sabotage. That was, that was in your head. At least a portion of your brain was like, I'm gonna get myself be out.

• 31:26Speaker 03

  I think in a way, but I think I also just felt that it wasn't my role and that I didn't, it wasn't right for me. I didn't want to do it. Um, and there's other stuff I probably wouldn't have been able to do. I mean, there's stuff I would have been able to do, but I also like getting really famous at 22, I think would have been a bad idea.

• 31:44Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 31:44Speaker 03

  Probably. I've been very lucky that it's been like very gradual over the years.

• 31:48Josh Horowitz?

  So yeah, it kind of worked in, in a way in your favor. Like there's, I referenced Beautiful Creatures, which was like at the time, like here we go, guys. Bring it on Twilight.

• 31:57Speaker 03

  Right, exactly.

• 31:58Josh Horowitz?

  All good.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  Didn't happen. Didn't happen. Uh, great experience, great people, but it was a weird, there was kind of a moment between um, I would say between Tetro and like uh, sort of a combo of Warren's movie in Hail Caesar that felt like I was personally in the woods a little bit and dealing with stuff and, and also creatively and professionally had kind of lost. When I did Tetro, I was so young, I didn't have any nerves, right? I was like 18, it was like playtime and it was all of that. And then I, as we all, I went to college and I kind of um, lost the self-assurance in a certain way and had to kind of rebuild that. And that lined up with the movies I got to make at that time.

• 32:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. I mean, I would think again, like Hail Caesar being on that set, being surrounded by, yeah, Coens are maybe my favorite filmmakers of all time.

• 32:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:52Josh Horowitz?

  Um, yeah. Famously, I mean, it's a great role, but the scene of all scenes.

• 32:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:58Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, with Rafe has become iconic, instantly iconic.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:02Josh Horowitz?

  Um, do you remember, I mean, you must remember that moment, that, that day with Rafe.

• 33:07Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 33:08Josh Horowitz?

  Um, did it play as hysterical on set as it ended up in the finished product? Like, did you feel like, yeah, this is, this writing, the way we're, we're nailing this?

• 33:16Speaker 03

  Um, I.

• 33:19Josh Horowitz?

  This is the wood that it were so simple for reference. Yes.

• 33:24Speaker 03

  I uh, it was the best written scene I'd ever, like it was the funniest writing I'd ever read.

• 33:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:31Speaker 03

  And I couldn't get through preparing for it without laughing.

• 33:34Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 33:34Speaker 03

  And it became really scary because I really couldn't get through without laughing. And so I worked with a friend of mine that I work on everything with and I had to, in a way, become three times the actor that I had been before. And in a way, it was coming, I was coming right off of Warren.

• 33:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:51Speaker 03

  And prepping for that movie, Warren was very demanding and we had to be um, very, very, very prepared.

• 33:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  And uh, or else a little bit. And, and when we went into, when I did Hail Caesar, it was almost like all of that newfound threshold of how prepared I needed to be came into play because I was like, I, this has to mean so much to me. In other words, what my character wants and this opportunity in this prestigious, I think it was called like Merrily We Dance or something like that. Um, movie has to mean so much to me that it's, there's nothing funny about it if, if I can't say these lines. And, and so I worked really hard for, for the audition. We shot, we shot the first few scenes that weren't that scene. It went really well. We got to that scene. Uh, we were gonna shoot on Monday.

• 34:44Speaker 03

  They don't really rehearse, but we rehearsed on Friday because that scene was so gargantuan. I couldn't get through the Friday without laughing and Rafe was kind of like, and uh, Rafe left, Joel Cohen came up to me and said, don't worry about it. Like, we'll cut around and it'll be okay. And I was like, no way. I was, everyone else in the movie is an A-list movie star. I'm nobody. I'm like scared out of my mind. And the next day was my 25th birthday, I think. And I just went to the woods and just spent all day making it matter so much to me. And then we shot for a day and a half and it was just like, I'm not, I'm not gonna,

• 35:22Speaker 03

  it's not gonna be like cut or wasn't that good? It was like, nope, this, this has to matter and this has to be dead serious the entire time. And Rafe is maybe the best actor I've ever worked with. Um, final, final, final, final, final thing. He was in it the entire time. His last close up, he broke. And I was like, I was like.

• 35:41Josh Horowitz?

  See?

• 35:42Speaker 03

  Yes. And I went home breathless. Like I, I was like, it was, it was the biggest hill. It was, you know, whatever that moment is, it was that.

• 35:51Josh Horowitz?

  That, I mean, that scene works for so many reasons. I mean, the two performances, because yes, it's your kind of desperation to get it right and his beautiful exasperation is just.

• 36:02Speaker 03

  And there's times where you're playing what you're living. So I was playing.

• 36:05Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 36:06Speaker 03

  What I was living, which is I'm the person these people don't really take seriously and I have no name and power here. And I have this opportunity and I'm not, not gonna let anyone mess it up, you know? Yeah.

• 36:18Josh Horowitz?

  So we've obviously talked a lot about Solo over the years and you know, you know, I, I still feel sad like that. It's like wrapped up in like muck, right? Like, like, like as good as the film came out, and I do think it came out quite well, given all the circumstances. There's always gonna be this fucking cloud around it when we talk about it.

• 36:35Speaker 03

  Sure, sure.

• 36:35Josh Horowitz?

  Like, let's, let's focus on the positive first. Like, what was like the high point? Like the happiest memory? Is it like getting the role? Was it stepping on, on first day of set? Like, when you think back to the happy times on Solo, what brings a smile to your face?

• 36:49Speaker 03

  I think walking onto the Millennium Falcon and, and I think it was during the screen test or something.

• 36:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:59Speaker 03

  And um, that feeling, I mean, it just felt like being a little kid and getting to like walk into the game of make believe you'd been playing.

• 37:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. When you look back, do you see, like, can you track the, the, in slow mo, what was going, did you feel it, it kind of coming apart?

• 37:15Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 37:16Josh Horowitz?

  In real time?

• 37:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, anything I say is gonna be the takeaway.

• 37:21Josh Horowitz?

  I don't want to get you in trouble.

• 37:22Speaker 03

  No, no, it's not getting me in trouble. It's more just, you know, but the, it's that it, it, there's a, there's a kind of, it doesn't matter. But the um, uh, the, yeah, you, you, by the time, by the time there was the director switch, it was like when people say their parents got divorced and they were just so relieved because the household had become so tense.

• 37:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 37:46Speaker 03

  So that was what it felt like.

• 37:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Um, I mean, is there anything with some distance now that like, there was so much, I feel like there was misreporting about it in a variety of ways. Is there, is there anything to correct the record on that you like kind of want for the record people to know? That bugged you at the time? I mean, there was shitty stuff around like your acting and it's time reported that. I, I can't imagine hearing that kind of stuff.

• 38:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was not accurate. Um, uh, but no, I mean, it's.

• 38:16Josh Horowitz?

  You're good.

• 38:17Speaker 03

  I'm fine.

• 38:18Josh Horowitz?

  We, we, we're all good now.

• 38:19Speaker 03

  It's all fine.

• 38:20Josh Horowitz?

  Lauren Miller are happy.

• 38:21Speaker 03

  There are people who. Exactly. Everybody, Lauren Miller are just fine.

• 38:25Josh Horowitz?

  I think they're okay.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  So I think it's fine. You know, there's like a little corner of the media landscape that like

• 38:33Josh Horowitz?

  I know.

• 38:34Speaker 03

  Wants to just dig at that continuously. And if that's helpful for them to put stuff on their websites, then that's fine. But it's kind of, it's just, it's, it's over, you know?

• 38:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. We're good. Um, I mean, in the wake of that, we spoke when you did Brave New World and then, you know, a couple of years later comes like Cocaine Bear.

• 38:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:57Josh Horowitz?

  And um, Oppenheimer. Um, I mean, the Oppenheimer experience, not only do you get, you get the Nolan experience, but you get the

• 39:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:04Josh Horowitz?

  The ringside seats to RDJ.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 39:07Josh Horowitz?

  You're essentially kind of straight man, innocent, straight man to him.

• 39:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I loved that. I mean, I, I auditioned for that and I had no idea if I was gonna be um, what I was gonna play. You know, you audition with dummy sides. So I auditioned with sides from like, I think the imitation game. And um, and then you're like, boy, I hope I have a role that is interesting. And what I ended up with was almost like the role that I would want in the whole movie. I mean, I just loved the character despite the fact that there was no name. It was like, uh, it was this great um, character and there's a kind of a sentimental, kind of weirdly like old timey patriotism at the heart of that, even though the movie has like such a.

• 39:57Speaker 03

  Or of darkness and brooding, it has a, it has a heart that's very like belief in, I don't know, the power of certain individuals to champion certain ideals or something. And so I went back and watched it, so one, not a ton of life, um, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, which is like the sentimental patriotic movie and is deeply moving. I mean, really, really moving and beautiful and, um, and I loved it. I mean, I just, and it, and it hit me in a different way, but I remember doing that and then just being on set with the two of them and they are inverse energies. I mean, Downey is like the most funny, quick, extemporaneous.

• 40:39Speaker 03

  He's like Lenny Bruce or something. I mean, he's brilliant and Nolan is obviously brilliant and like David Lean or something. I mean, just this incredibly.

• 40:48Josh Horowitz?

  The gravitas.

• 40:49Speaker 03

  The gravitas and the stature and the this and very warm, like really, especially over time, like very, very warm and loving, loves his actors, really feels a kind of, um, almost like fatherly, I think, quality between him and his actors and, uh, and they were great. And Downey was, you know, spectacular to get to, and we were just in the room. I mean, we, there was no, it was, it was almost like going back to Tetro in a sense because it was like, he had stripped out all the fat of everything that a movie gets built up on and trailers and entourages and stuff. And it was just like, there were no stand ins.

• 41:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:24Speaker 03

  We, there were no trailers on set. Downey and I would do the scene in the one room and we'd go to the next room, which was the office of the archaeological head of Santa Fe or something and sit in her office in director chairs and chat. And then they'd come in and they say, we're ready for you again. We'd go back into the other room and it was, that's all filmmaking really needs to be, you know, like, and, and in a way, when you build up all this stuff around it, it does suck some of the life out of it, you know? There is a personal in the room quality that, that you lose.

• 41:55Josh Horowitz?

  I think that's what, why we're responding to Nolan's work, especially the last like, you know, five, 10 years of what he's been doing is he's able to kind of like get this macro, like David Lean, as you say, kind of epicness. And yet by all the actors I've talked to, that somehow creates this atmosphere on set that is just like, it's just, it's a small intimate company. And yet he can also deliver the bombast and the spectacle.

• 42:17Speaker 03

  Totally. I think, and the way he shoots it is you feel it when you watch those movies. They're kind of rough. They're kind of like shot in this very, and especially in this time where big, exciting images is becoming something that anyone can make in two clicks of a thing.

• 42:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  That his allegiance to doing things real and not doing CGI is, is growing into being like really almost salvational for audiences. Like I, I can go here and know that they're not lying to me. So it was, it was inspiring to be around a filmmaker who has that much conviction in his project in a way.

• 42:53Josh Horowitz?

  I got a chance to meet Austin Abrams recently, which leads me to Weapons.

• 42:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:57Josh Horowitz?

  I think if there's a most horrifying moment in the last few years on film, it's you getting pricked with that needle and that's, that's, come on, what a great moment.

• 43:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just thinking when I read it in the script, how great it was. Yeah.

• 43:11Josh Horowitz?

  But the energy of like, I, I always think of like that chase scene. It's like, it's like the anti-point break, like epic. It's like, it's not the cool chase scene. It's like the sad chase.

• 43:19Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 43:21Josh Horowitz?

  Fun to play that, that guy.

• 43:23Speaker 03

  Great. Yeah. I mean, I read it, I read it a year in advance. My favorite thing is one night they're like, you're not ready for it. We don't want you for it. And then I, and I, and I kind of get to fight for it. Um, that's happened with Hail Caesar. Like I was not, I was told like, there's nothing for you here. Um, and, uh.

• 43:39Josh Horowitz?

  And that happened with Weapons?

• 43:40Speaker 03

  A li, not exactly. Like I met with, I read the script. I hadn't seen Barbarian. I, I am not into horror movies. I find them, I don't have fun. I, I just get upset. I just find the thing I'm watching upsetting and, um, and I was like, there is something magical at the heart of this and it's so special to have read that and seen that and then have audiences for a movie that's not IP or anything like that, for audiences to react to that because it's just excellent storytelling, coming from a very, very deep place and him having a lot of fun with it. And so the kind of, once I met with him, the personal quality to it was just so, um,

• 44:22Speaker 03

  clear why that script was alive in the way it was because he was writing that real issue. It's like Tarantino talks about this with Pulp Fiction, which is so genre and all this stuff. He's really talking about what's going on in his life.

• 44:32Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 44:32Speaker 03

  And so there was a magic to it and I met with him, it was between me and another actor. And I think he knew me from Hail Caesar and he, we, him and I have never quite talked about this, but I think he felt I was just a bit too, I don't know, not haggard and old and whatever enough. And then I sent him a short film that I directed where I gained 20 pounds and I looked like hell. And I just said, you know, just want you to see this. And this is after it went to the other actor.

• 45:02Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 45:02Speaker 03

  Cause I kept, I, I never felt this before, but I was like, I didn't get it and it's, something's wrong. I feel like that was my part and I, for a year stayed on him and other people went in and out of the movie and other roles and the movie got delayed. And I just kept emailing him saying, hey, you know, if, if you need me, I'm around, if that other actor.

• 45:19Josh Horowitz?

  Happy to be your backup.

• 45:20Speaker 03

  Exactly. Happy to be here no matter what. And I remember having a meeting with my agents. And at the end of it, I said, I don't even want to ask this again, but what's going on with Weapons? And they said, there's a thing with the scheduling. You should email Zach today. And I emailed him that day and he called me the next day and said, can you get dinner? And then, then, then I'm just so glad I ended up in the movie and loved it, you know, getting to work with a director at the beginning of their career, Chloe Demont, when I did Fair Play, like people who were like, I've worked for all these, you know, 60 to 80 year old directors that are, that have these bodies of work, but being in the, in the beginning of the wave.

• 45:55Josh Horowitz?

  The need to like, I need to get my story fucking on the screen.

• 45:58Speaker 03

  Exactly. Yeah. That feels very exciting. Yeah.

• 46:02Josh Horowitz?

  I mentioned when you walked in, I'm very excited. You haven't started shooting yet, but you're about to do Miami Vice 85.

• 46:06Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 46:07Josh Horowitz?

  Um, which has a hell of a cast, obviously.

• 46:10Speaker 03

  Amazing.

• 46:10Josh Horowitz?

  Led by, by Michael B. and Austin, Joe Kaczynski is directing, um, Dan Gillroy wrote the script. So let's not even, you know, that's important. That's an important factor.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 46:19Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have an association or love of the eighties show, the Michael Mann film?

• 46:24Speaker 03

  Zero.

• 46:24Josh Horowitz?

  None.

• 46:25Speaker 03

  Never had seen the show, never saw the movie.

• 46:27Josh Horowitz?

  No kidding.

• 46:28Speaker 03

  Basically knew it as people in pastel clothing drive around. So I just didn't know anything about it.

• 46:33Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 46:35Speaker 03

  I've now since watched the show and really do get what people who love it, love about it.

• 46:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:42Speaker 03

  And, uh, and to me it was the same lodestar, which is just like Joe Kaczynski is a great director. It's, I'm working with, you know, the premier sort of big movie director of these kinds of movies in a certain way right now. Um.

• 46:59Josh Horowitz?

  That movie's gonna look so fucking good and cool.

• 47:02Speaker 03

  Exactly. And he loves, he loves, he grew up watching the show. I think this is like, he's, he is, his excitement about recreating this world is really palpable. Austin and Michael B. are lovely. So, yeah, it's fun.

• 47:18Josh Horowitz?

  Are you continuing your, your run of sociopaths here? What kind of a role do you have in this one?

• 47:23Speaker 03

  No, no, not in this one. No.

• 47:24Josh Horowitz?

  Not in this one. Okay. So you've got the facial hair.

• 47:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

• 47:32Josh Horowitz?

  I guess briefly also, I mean, you got a chance to, I mean, you cashed in your MCU card. Are you happy that like, that was the one? Cause you don't get another. That's your MCU card.

• 47:40Speaker 03

  I really liked the role. Um, and I, I haven't, I didn't really see the show, but I think it, I think it came out well and I, and, and I liked what they wrote there and, uh, I thought it was interesting.

• 47:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:53Josh Horowitz?

  And if and when it comes back around.

• 47:55Speaker 03

  Maybe, yeah, maybe. Maybe. I mean, I like the part.

• 47:58Josh Horowitz?

  It's major hedging.

• 47:58Speaker 03

  It's part of, that's part of why I said yes, is I thought the role actually had like a lot of places it could go and grow. I thought that was actually, that was really appealing to me because I found that really interesting. So that was a lot of why I did it and Shinaka Haju wrote it and, and was the showrunner. She's fantastic. And she's now a part of our playwright circle at my theater. So, um.

• 48:19Josh Horowitz?

  Are you technically, are you friends now with, um, Jeff Bridges by association? You're a blood relative.

• 48:25Speaker 03

  He's my dad. Yeah. I've never met him. I met Adam Driver once. He's technically my son.

• 48:32Josh Horowitz?

  They grow up so fast. He's so tall.

• 48:34Speaker 03

  They grow up so fast. That's right. Yeah.

• 48:37Josh Horowitz?

  That's quite a family text group you can start.

• 48:39Speaker 03

  Sure. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

• 48:42Josh Horowitz?

  You also have a random, but important to note, maybe the most half-assed Instagram account I've ever seen.

• 48:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:49Josh Horowitz?

  So six months ago or so, Alden apparently started an Instagram account, one fucking photo.

• 48:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:56Josh Horowitz?

  Either do it or get out. What are you doing?

• 48:58Speaker 03

  That's exactly what I said yesterday. I was like, I need to figure out what I'm doing with this or I need to get off of it.

• 49:04Josh Horowitz?

  Tough love. I'm telling you, my friend.

• 49:06Speaker 03

  It is obviously a great tool to, you know, it's amazing the power this stuff has to, to, to promote and to get to put stuff out there, especially when you're making projects that don't have big advertising budgets. It makes me sick when I feel, when I'm on there and I, and what social media has done to everyone in a way.

• 49:26Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know what you're talking about. It's great, man. We're all good. We're great.

• 49:29Speaker 03

  It's ruined the world. Um, what is, they said in the social dilemma that it's the climate change. It's the climate disaster of culture, basically. Um, and.

• 49:40Josh Horowitz?

  But you do love TikTok, I hear.

• 49:42Speaker 03

  Never been on TikTok. I would be very, it would be very hard for me. Like when I go, it's so diabolically smart.

• 49:49Josh Horowitz?

  That's the whole reason.

• 49:49Speaker 03

  It's like, here's all these filmmakers who are saying stuff I want to listen to. And it's like, and then you just feel like you looked at people who were at parties you didn't get invited to all day. Like, it doesn't even matter who it is. You're just like, oh, I guess I'm not there.

• 50:02Josh Horowitz?

  I didn't even want to go there, but now I feel like I did want to go.

• 50:05Speaker 03

  Exactly. It makes you feel so bad about yourself, no matter where you're at. And you just feel like, just like a complete loser, basically. So.

• 50:13Josh Horowitz?

  So you're ready to dive in. You're excited.

• 50:15Speaker 03

  Oh, I hate it. But I, um, I guess I shouldn't say that because I am trying.

• 50:20Josh Horowitz?

  Constantly posting.

• 50:21Speaker 03

  Hey, guys.

• 50:22Josh Horowitz?

  Get ready with me. I'm Alden.

• 50:23Speaker 03

  My friend saying like, imagine Bob Dylan being like, hey, guys, this is my new song. Like, you know, can't wait for you all to fucking listen. It's just is like, what are we doing to ourselves? I'm in a, I'm in a losing battle here. But I do think hopefully young people are starting to like be less enchanted with the culture around it. There's a version of this that can be regulated and smart and less diabolical and that could be good. And we'll see.

• 50:49Josh Horowitz?

  We'll see. Things are great.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. I'm gonna do something with it and I did have fun. There was a second where I was putting film photos on it and that was kind of interesting. Not really.

• 51:02Speaker 03

  Not really. I can't pretend I have anything but hatred for it.

• 51:05Josh Horowitz?

  Um, seen anything good lately? Movie, TV, consuming anything?

• 51:09Speaker 03

  Um, Maurice Pilla. I'm gonna sound like such a pretentious.

• 51:13Josh Horowitz?

  Good.

• 51:13Speaker 03

  Uh, French filmmaker, know some more. Um, A Mouth agape is the English title. I don't remember. Um, pretty gnarly stuff in it that is problematic, but incredible, sort of the French Cassavetes, like incredible, incredible filmmaking, if you can stomach some of the sexual politics of it. Um, uh, and then the, who else did I, what else have I seen that I loved? I've just been in the world of, oh, I watched Manhunter. Uh, Joe Kaczynski said to watch Manhunter.

• 51:47Josh Horowitz?

  Michael Mann's, yeah.

• 51:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, uh, I'd never seen that. That was pretty great.

• 51:50Josh Horowitz?

  Have you ever had the Michael Mann ring? I could see you fitting into Michael Mann.

• 51:53Speaker 03

  I've never met him. I've never met him.

• 51:55Josh Horowitz?

  He's intense, but great.

• 51:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:59Speaker 03

  Um, I read the book Commonwealth by Anne Patchett.

• 52:02Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. You man of many interests.

• 52:07Speaker 03

  Trying to think of something that's more fun.

• 52:08Josh Horowitz?

  No, it's all good. It's all good. Uh, here's fun for you. Profoundly random questions. We always end.

• 52:12Speaker 03

  Oh, Scorsese documentary, the Rebecca Miller made. I just watched the first episode and I was like, oh, it's the part with his childhood. And as soon as I started watching, I was like, this is incredible.

• 52:22Josh Horowitz?

  I know his, his childhood friends.

• 52:23Speaker 03

  All of it. Usually that part of books, biographies or documentaries, you're like, all right, I don't care where their grandparents were from. Like, let's just get to the stuff. But the way she directed and what she found in that, I can't imagine any other part is going to be even as interesting. It's like, I can't wait to finish that.

• 52:39Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah. I just borrowed the entire thing. You're gonna love the, it literally covers every single film of his.

• 52:43Speaker 03

  That's amazing.

• 52:45Josh Horowitz?

  It's amazing.

• 52:46Speaker 03

  That's amazing. That's amazing.

• 52:48Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, profoundly random questions, Alden. Dogs or cats?

• 52:51Speaker 03

  Dogs, I guess. I've never had a dog.

• 52:53Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 52:54Speaker 03

  But.

• 52:54Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you're open to.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  I'd like, I really want one.

• 52:57Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Uh, what do you collect?

• 53:00Speaker 03

  I had a magnet collection for a while. It ran its course. Um.

• 53:06Josh Horowitz?

  Famously magnet collections often just peter out. They just, yeah. You can post those on Instagram.

• 53:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can't wait. Um, then, uh, I, uh, uh, books, I guess. I mean, I just buy books. I've read like 5% of the books I own. I've read like so few of them, but.

• 53:24Josh Horowitz?

  I'm very good at starting books myself. Yeah.

• 53:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:26Josh Horowitz?

  Um, favorite, yeah, sorry.

• 53:28Speaker 03

  Nope.

• 53:28Josh Horowitz?

  Favorite video game of all time?

• 53:30Speaker 03

  I wasn't allowed to video games as a kid. I got video games when I was older. I would play them all day if I still had them. Red Dead Redemption.

• 53:39Josh Horowitz?

  That sucked up a lot of time in your life?

• 53:41Speaker 03

  There was a period when I was like 29 and I was playing Red Dead Redemption a lot for like a year.

• 53:47Josh Horowitz?

  If I see a hole in the resume, they're like, oh, that was the year of Red Dead.

• 53:50Speaker 03

  Exactly. But I also wasn't playing like the levels. I was just killing people and running around. And then, and then eventually it sort of was like, you can't keep doing, it kind of shut me out, I guess. That was the end.

• 54:01Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, was there an intervention? Did people in your life come around and say?

• 54:03Speaker 03

  The game. Like I was in so much, I was in so, I had so many, I don't know, crimes against me from the sheriff or whoever, that I was not allowed to keep.

• 54:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 54:14Speaker 03

  Playing it. I had no more point. So I'd just start the game and then everyone would come after me immediately. So it wasn't useful anymore.

• 54:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 54:21Speaker 03

  But it was very interesting.

• 54:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 54:23Speaker 03

  And there's a weird moment in it where somebody comes up to the character and goes, hey, I'm doing this new thing called advertising. And it's like, oh, I'd never thought about it. And it talks about like the birth of advertising, which is interesting. A whole other side thing.

• 54:38Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, Dakota Johnson asked me, I will ask you, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 54:45Josh Horowitz?

  Take it in, just enjoy it.

• 54:48Speaker 03

  I need to really put myself there.

• 54:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 54:50Speaker 03

  Uh, be in my butt.

• 54:52Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you for engaging.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:53Josh Horowitz?

  Seriously.

• 54:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:55Josh Horowitz?

  What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 54:57Speaker 03

  Nothing. It's blank.

• 54:59Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 54:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:00Josh Horowitz?

  You know, the only other actor that's given me that? You're in good company.

• 55:03Speaker 03

  Who?

• 55:04Josh Horowitz?

  Killian.

• 55:04Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 55:05Josh Horowitz?

  Killian Murphy.

• 55:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 55:06Josh Horowitz?

  Black void.

• 55:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's blank. Yeah.

• 55:09Josh Horowitz?

  What does that say about you?

• 55:10Speaker 03

  I don't know. I don't know how to use it. I really have tried to, whatever. But I, I've got.

• 55:16Josh Horowitz?

  You're an analog.

• 55:17Speaker 03

  I've gotten in and off of it. I just think this stuff is fucking horrible for us.

• 55:22Josh Horowitz?

  No, it's not.

• 55:23Speaker 03

  It's horrible.

• 55:24Josh Horowitz?

  Not subject to discussion. It's true.

• 55:25Speaker 03

  All so bad.

• 55:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 55:27Speaker 03

  And it's, it's just mangling these beautiful impulses. People have to make things and share them and whatever. And it turns everybody into almost like an agent or something where they're like selling themselves. And then they're thinking about what's gonna sell while they're making it. And like a 21-year-old artist doing that is like, we've just, they've just been thwarted from whatever they were gonna be able to make. So not to mention everyone in the world thinking everything's terrible all the time because that's what he's, and whatever. There's lots of smart people who are sounding the alarm on this and it's like, how do we, how do we really choose to, what is the alternative vision? I guess that's the most important question because we can all bemoan it all day, but like, what does it look like?

• 56:09Josh Horowitz?

  What's the path?

• 56:10Speaker 03

  What is the path?

• 56:11Josh Horowitz?

  A good usable.

• 56:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. What is a good usable? Is it regulation of the things? Is it them not being able to do the, do algorithms that, that are this addictive? Is it age gates? I don't know. But there's smart people who I hope we're culturally championing and looking at.

• 56:26Josh Horowitz?

  What's, uh, who's the last actor you were mistaken for?

• 56:29Speaker 03

  Ray Nicholson.

• 56:32Josh Horowitz?

  Sure. Okay.

• 56:33Speaker 03

  Yep. Twice in one week.

• 56:35Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 56:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:36Josh Horowitz?

  He's got a big grin. He's got that Nicholson grin.

• 56:38Speaker 03

  I guess so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm friends, I mean, I know him a little bit and I'm friends with his sister. And so I was like, this keeps happening. Yeah.

• 56:46Josh Horowitz?

  I saw his new film. He's actually really good in it. It's beautiful. Yeah, yeah.

• 56:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, cool.

• 56:49Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, worst note a director has ever given you?

• 56:53Speaker 03

  Um, the director had watched, um, oh my God. Well, I was on a set where a director fell asleep a few times and we would end the scene and, uh, we would kind of be, so, you know, and then I'd watch the first AD nudge him and go, uh, action. I mean, cut. Um, and then I was, uh, the director had watched dailies of the scene the day before and came the next day to me and the leading actress and said, I just need to see it behind the eyes. I just need to see it behind the eyes. I need, I need to, I want to see it behind the eyes. I was like, how do I, mm, behind the eyes. Okay. Um.

• 57:36Josh Horowitz?

  Show me inside.

• 57:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. I think what he meant is there wasn't enough of an inner life. I don't know what he meant. Anyway. Yeah.

• 57:44Josh Horowitz?

  Um, and lastly, in the spirit of happy, sad confused, who's an actor who always makes you happy? See him on screen?

• 57:55Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, I'm sure there are many, but one comes to mind.

• 57:57Speaker 03

  I mean, Meryl Streep, Robert Duvall, Andrew Scott.

• 58:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Movie that makes you sad?

• 58:05Speaker 03

  Uh, Terms of Endearment.

• 58:10Josh Horowitz?

  That's one of my go-tos.

• 58:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 58:12Speaker 03

  In a good way.

• 58:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 58:13Speaker 03

  There's movies that make me sad in a not good way, like sad, depressing, but.

• 58:16Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 58:16Speaker 03

  That is a deeply cathartic, beautiful movie.

• 58:19Josh Horowitz?

  There's something about the score in that too. They use it so much. That theme is, yeah, always works. Uh, and finally a food that makes you confused.

• 58:29Speaker 03

  I just shot a movie in the Philippines and there's a, there's an egg dish. I don't know, remember the name of it. That is pretty much like a chicken that almost got to live.

• 58:40Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, no.

• 58:40Speaker 03

  And that's what you eat. So it's like looking at this little thing and then you slurp it. So that was confusing.

• 58:47Josh Horowitz?

  But you went for it. You did it.

• 58:48Speaker 03

  No.

• 58:50Speaker 03

  No, I didn't.

• 58:50Josh Horowitz?

  Be my trailer with my Starbucks.

• 58:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I didn't do it. No.

• 58:54Josh Horowitz?

  He's got his limits.

• 58:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. But the Philippines is amazing and the people in the Philippines are the most incredible people.

• 59:00Josh Horowitz?

  Was this the one with Daisy?

• 59:01Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 59:02Josh Horowitz?

  I'm excited for a little old school rom-com kind of a thing?

• 59:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:05Josh Horowitz?

  Look at that.

• 59:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:06Josh Horowitz?

  You contain multitudes, my friend.

• 59:10Josh Horowitz?

  All right. Thank you for stopping by.

• 59:11Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 59:12Josh Horowitz?

  It's always good to see you.

• 59:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, great to see you.

• 59:14Josh Horowitz?

  Everybody check out A Talent for Murder. Um, check out the theater company out in LA. Lungs is about to start.

• 59:20Speaker 03

  Lungs opens on October 29th and it is, uh, trying to bring a certain kind of spirit of off-Broadway theater to East LA and also a place for artists, um, to work alongside each other. It was like being around Francis and American Zoetrope and group theater and these kind of were touchstones of like, we have our playwright circle and acting workshops and like, basically artists in the city working in a way that's totally insulated from, um, where they just get to be in dialogue with each other and pushing each other to like, try things and make different stuff and, and then do kind of plays with great actors. Yeah.

• 59:56Josh Horowitz?

  You're in it for the right reasons and you're gonna be a great Instagram influencer soon. That's awesome.

• 1:00:00Speaker 03

  Wait.

• 1:00:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:01Speaker 03

  I should just do, what should I do? What's like a concept?

• 1:00:03Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's like, I was saying before.

• 1:00:05Speaker 03

  Ice bucket challenge, which is like 30 years old, probably.

• 1:00:08Josh Horowitz?

  You're asking the wrong guy.

• 1:00:09Speaker 03

  So funny. Yeah. So what should I, you just.

• 1:00:13Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know anything, but what's the, what's the get ready with me thing? Like we could watch Alden, like his, um, his, his, his skincare regimen, maybe?

• 1:00:22Speaker 03

  Oh, God. This is so horrible to think about.

• 1:00:25Josh Horowitz?

  We're gonna go vomit now.

• 1:00:26Speaker 03

  There are people who are great at it.

• 1:00:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 1:00:28Speaker 03

  And they love it.

• 1:00:29Josh Horowitz?

  Hey.

• 1:00:29Speaker 03

  And God bless them.

• 1:00:33Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you, dude.

• 1:00:34Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:00:35Josh Horowitz?

  We did it. Nice to see you.

• 1:00:38Speaker 04

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 1:00:57Speaker 06

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