Michael Douglas

The one and only Michael Douglas joins the podcast. Michael bares all in his new memoir, ONE HELLUVA RIDE, and he sits down with Josh to share an even more in-depth look at the book’s revelations–plus a few that didn’t make it to the page. From telling his father, Kirk Douglas, that he wanted to act, to getting pushed by Oliver Stone on the set of WALL STREET, to an account of what it was like to film intimate scenes before an intimacy coordinator became the standard, to why he decided to do ANT-MAN, this episode is a treat for anyone who’s resonated with Michael’s prolific life. Recorded at the 92nd Street Y SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at https://www.rula.com/happy #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Want to be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip, the Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So rule the group chat and download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone.

• 0:23Josh Horowitz?

  Did Catherine, your lovely wife, did she know everything? All of these stories going?

• 0:28Speaker 02

  I, I, I'll be home to ask her because she, she just got the book two days ago and I've, I've told her, and this was all as I say, B.C. Before Catherine.

• 0:41Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 0:49Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, Michael Douglas, an absolute Hollywood icon, talking about his life, his career, his new memoir and more. Thanks guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. Remember to hit that subscribe button on YouTube, on Spotify, wherever you're doing it, I don't care. Just hit the subscribe button, do me a solid. Also, if you like what I do, check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happy sad confused. Early access to every single episode, autographed merch, posters, access to our live events and much, much more. Helping us over there helps us make more over here. I don't know if you guys have been listening or watching the podcast for a long time, if

• 1:32Josh Horowitz?

  you're recent subscribers, but we're on a really good run. I'm, I'm, I'm really, I can't say enough about the level of guests we've had on lately. Ben Affleck was an all-timer, a lot of attention for that one, but um, yeah, some really good stuff. And this is another one like that. Michael Douglas had never been on the podcast. This kind of came around, kind of honestly, at the last second. He was doing a 92nd Street Y event and I was invited to host this. And it was such an honor because, look, of people of a certain age, we all grew up with Michael Douglas. Wall Street, Basic Instinct, Romancing the Stone. The list goes on and on. He produced One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

• 2:17Josh Horowitz?

  He's, he's been a star for decades. He of course came from stardom. His dad was Kirk Douglas, Spartacus himself. And he has laid it all out there in a new memoir. It's called One Hell of a Ride. I've, I've read the whole thing. I absolutely tore through it. It's a great read, tons of amazing stories in there. And this was a real treat. We welcomed him to the 92nd Street Y for a live event. This was taped on the publication day of One Hell of a Ride. So it was a real honor to kind of have this moment with Michael as the book was coming out into the public, as it was getting a ton of attention, still getting a ton of attention. A lot of like, there's a lot of like, kind of salacious, kind of gossipy things in, in

• 3:02Josh Horowitz?

  the book, like about, you know, his relationships. He's very open and honest about, you know, his substance abuse issues, his affairs with, you know, the likes of Gene Triplehorn and Kathleen Turner, his troubles with his marriage. But to be honest, for me, as a geek, as a movie lover, it was all, it's all about the movies and the stories. So we really concentrate most of this conversation on that stuff because that's what I care about. I wanted the stories about Wall Street and Basic Instinct and Oliver Stone and, and, and Danny DeVito and all that cool stuff. So that's all in here. He's an absolute icon and I'm thrilled he finally came on the podcast and this was the perfect time to support his new memoir, excuse me.

• 3:47Josh Horowitz?

  All right.

• 3:50Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, we don't throw this word around lightly, he's an icon. Michael Douglas is on the show, talking about his memoir, his life, his career. It's all there. Thanks guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. Remember, hit that subscribe button on YouTube, on Spotify, however you're doing it, up to you. And remember, if you like what I do, check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happy sad confused. We give early access to every single episode, bonus materials when we can. You hear those New York sirens? That's, that's ambiance. You don't get that on smart lists, guys. But yeah, check out the Patreon, patreon.com/happy sad confused. Honestly, supporting us over there really does help us make more stuff over here.

• 4:34Josh Horowitz?

  And I have to say, I am so, so, so proud of the conversations we've been having, the level of guests we've been having, one banger after another. James McAvoy, Ben Affleck, an all-timer of a guest. Coming up soon, some really big ones. John Goodman is coming up on the show. We've taped that already, another all-timer. We're just, we're in a groove. So I hope you guys are enjoying what we're doing over here. And this, this episode is a big one for me. You know, people of a certain age, I think we all came up loving and adoring Michael Douglas movies. I mean, everything, Basic Instinct, Falling Down, Wall Street, Romancing the Stone.

• 5:16Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, in the late eighties, nineties, he was as big as you got. It was like him and Harrison Ford, basically, as leading men. He, he had a run. He had an amazing run and he's been like prolific pretty consistently through the decades. He's lived quite a life. It's all there in his new memoir, One Hell of a Ride. I highly recommend the book. I tore through it, absolutely adored it. It's got all the stories. And look, it's got the kind of gossipy stuff, if you like that kind of thing, like he's open about his troubles, his substance abuse issues, his marital problems, the affairs he had with some notable co-stars. For me though, honestly, it's mostly about the movie stories and there are tons in there. And that's what this conversation really covers is those big, major movie moments

• 6:01Josh Horowitz?

  in his life that I just wanted the stories from. He'd never done the podcast before, so I had to go there with him for this. And this was a treat. This was a live event in New York City at 92nd Street Y. This was taped on the publication day of One Hell of a Ride. So it was like, honestly, a big honor for me, not only to have Michael on the show, but to kind of like really usher in this book into the world. It's got in a ton of headlines. Maybe you've seen it all over the internet, all over your Instagram feed. It's certainly all over mine, but maybe you haven't actually had a chance to sit down and listen or watch the conversations with him. And this is, this is a really good one. So I hope you guys check it out.

• 6:42Josh Horowitz?

  I take you now to a live event taped at the 92nd Street Y. It's me and Michael Douglas. Enjoy. Hello, everybody. Well, again, welcome to the 92nd Street Y. You are in for a treat tonight. My name is Josh Horowitz. I host a podcast called Happy, Sad, Confused. And whether you know it or not, you're inside of it right now. I apologize. No, this is like a, such a special treat for me. This gentleman has never been on my podcast. He's, he's a regular here at the 92nd Street Y. He's been here before, but never for an occasion like this. To know and love film and TV for the last five decades is to know and love Michael Douglas. He is an absolute legend. He is one of the greats, one of the great actors, one of the great movie stars, one of the great producers.

• 7:27Josh Horowitz?

  And it's all there in this remarkable memoir, One Hell of a Ride. It is also one hell of a read, let me tell you that. I very much enjoyed this. You are going to absolutely adore it. And today's the publication day. He's celebrating it with us, so please make him feel welcome, everybody. The legend that is Mr. Michael Douglas, everybody. Come on out, sir.

• 8:02Josh Horowitz?

  You don't have stage fright anymore, do you? Because back in the day, Michael used to have stage fright. Is that true?

• 8:08Speaker 02

  Yes, well, that was very true back in the day, but this might just do it again. But yeah, no, I, I, when I first started in University of California, Santa Barbara, my first performance is I had a wastebasket offstage and every time just before I go on.

• 8:27Josh Horowitz?

  Should we get one just in case tonight?

• 8:28Speaker 02

  No, we'll be all right.

• 8:29Josh Horowitz?

  We got this. Congratulations, sir. I hope you feel the love tonight and I hope you feel the love out there. I feel like my, my internet algorithm is all Michael Douglas right now. You are everywhere. This book is everywhere. Today is the publication day, so congratulations.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. And Josh, thank you so much for doing this and for all of you showing up. I really appreciate it. It's nice to see you out tonight. Thank you.

• 8:57Josh Horowitz?

  It's, um,

• 8:59Josh Horowitz?

  it is a remarkable story. And I have to say, like, look, you've done a lot of press tours in your career and you've talked a lot about films, but this is a really open and exposing moment, I would imagine for you. Does it feel like you're kind of putting yourself out there in a different way than you ever have before?

• 9:15Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, very much so. You know, it's, it's one thing to have a character in a film, but when you make the decision to tell a story, a personal story about yourself, it's, it's, it's uncomfortable. It's nervous. I like to think that my films have always been, most of them, trying to be as truthful as possible. And I am fascinated with that gray area, the good and the bad in somebody. And I certainly have seen it in myself. So yeah, it was a very kind of nervous feeling over the past 18 months as it's coming together.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  And I'm quite, quite honestly, I've been blown away. We've been getting a lot of really good reviews and response to being, open about being a bad boy.

• 10:11Josh Horowitz?

  We'll, we'll talk about the good, the bad and the ugly tonight, but let me read actually an excerpt from one of those reviews. The New York Times absolutely gave you a rave. They said, quote, "Some celebrity memoir skate over the good stuff, offering a highlight reel more than an in-depth feature. One Hell of a Ride is a blockbuster, intimate and uncensored, worthy of a bucket of popcorn with extra butter."

• 10:34Speaker 02

  New York Times.

• 10:37Josh Horowitz?

  Is that as meaningful a review as you've ever gotten? Were you the kind of person that like felt the reviews, the good and the bad over your career?

• 10:43Speaker 02

  I haven't looked at closely the film's reviews over a period of time, but when it came to a book, and I must say, when I saw that, yes. Such a feeling because you're not sure. You really aren't. And you know, you share things that are uncomfortable and accept who you are. But I guess that's the privilege you get when you get into your eighties.

• 11:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So this book, so here's the cover for those who can see, and then here's the back. This is Michael from another day.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  It said before and after.

• 11:15Josh Horowitz?

  What would you say to the guy on the back? What do you miss about that guy? What would you say to that guy?

• 11:21Speaker 02

  It's a good looking smile. I wish he was as relaxed as that. No, I had, I don't know how I was able to keep up with it because somebody told me very early in my acting career, said, "The camera can tell when you're lying." I said, "What? The camera, it'll tell when you're lying." I used to get so, wow, you know. So I had this sort of method acting time where I was trying to wipe the character of the makeup off your face and feel it like what you, but you can't do that all the time.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  So it really wasn't until I think as far as Fatal Attraction, where I said, "Okay, here's the character. Let me start the character." And I said, "Okay, he's a lawyer in New York. Okay, I could be a lawyer in New York. He's married. Yes. He's an adulterer." Yeah. And so I said, "Well, wait a minute." And then this moment came over me that I said, "Acting is all about lying. It's about lying. It's convincing you, an audience, that you're telling the truth when you're telling a lie." And once I understood that, it really freed me up so much more in my acting.

• 12:46Josh Horowitz?

  You also, like needless to say, you had an absolute icon in your house to live up to. I mean, Kirk Douglas, one of the all time greats. And I mean, that hangs over your life and career, your career especially as you were starting out, I would imagine. Was he encouraging of you being an actor? As I understand it, like the first performances, he wasn't necessarily super encouraging of what he saw at first.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  No. Well, he came up, God bless him. I grew up, my mother and father got separated when I was five, and I grew up on the East Coast with my mother and my father was on the West Coast. And I went to sort of private school, went to Allen Stevenson here in New York, and then later I went to Choate. And it was all, you know, all boys, you know, this is 19, late 50s, early 60s. And so when it came to the end of Choate, where I was going to go, and I was pretty tight, you know, I was pretty tight. And you go, and you remember, you go to your high school, college counselor, and they

• 13:51Speaker 02

  always reminded me of like travel agents, you know, they had these brochures. You'd go through and you'd sit there and they'd go through the brochures. And I went through this, "Wait, wait, wait, stop." And they pull this out. No Ivy League buildings, nothing. And it said, "Campus by the sea." And then I had on the cover, and then there was this guy carrying a surfboard, and he had two girls next to him in two-piece bathing suits. If you were from back east in 1963, you hadn't seen a two-piece bathing suit. So I said, "I want to go there." So it was Santa Barbara. So of course, Dad was wonderful because Dad thought, "Oh, my son wants to be close

• 14:36Speaker 02

  to me. Come out to the side to be close." And so I got out there, and I mentioned it because it was the biggest, you know, change of my life. It was the early 60s. It was a very exciting time on the West Coast. U C system, the U C system was exploding, was growing very fast, great people, San Francisco, the whole scene there. And within about a year and a half, I went from being a preppy to a hippie with all of the things. And then I'm enjoying my hippie life. And then I got called in the second year to a college counselor. I said, "You've got to declare a major." I go, "What?"

• 15:20Speaker 02

  He said, "You've got to major in something. You can't just keep taking general education courses." So, "I don't know, man." And I said, "Theater." You know, I figured theater. My mother was an actress, my father, that was going to be the easiest thing to do. So I took theater. And then started that. And then I never acted before in my life. And so the first show came up was, I got a messenger speech in Much Ado About Nothing. And I remember my entrance in the show was down an aisle, and I came down the aisle as the messenger, and sure enough, I had to stop right by my father.

• 16:04Speaker 02

  And they taught me how to stand, you know, they showed me how to stand the right way. I ran, I said, "My Lord." And then I went, "And I ran out, and the audience said, 'What did he say? What did he say?'" And Dad came backstage afterwards, said, "Michael, you were terrible." And I think to answer your question, John, I think he was so relieved. He said, "Well, I don't have to worry about this guy becoming an actor."

• 16:36Josh Horowitz?

  Little did he know.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  I don't have to. So I was a grinder, you know, it came to me naturally, and I had a lot of stage fright. I don't know why I used to do it. It was a fight to get out there, but by the end of school, I left, and Dad came to see a play and said, "Son, you were good."

• 16:54Speaker 04

  More Happy Say Confused coming up. Starting or growing your own business can be intimidating and lonely at times. Your to-do list may feel endless with new tasks, and lists can easily begin to overrun your life. So finding the right tool that not only helps you out, but simplifies everything as a built-in business partner can be a game changer. For millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. From household names like Jimm Shark, Rare Beauty, and Heinz, to brands just getting started.

• 17:37Speaker 04

  Shopify has hundreds of ready-to-use templates that can help you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand's style. And you can tackle all the important tasks in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics and more. No need to save multiple websites or try to figure out what platform is hosting the tool that you need. And if people haven't heard about your brand, you can get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you with easy-to-run email and social media campaigns to reach customers wherever they're scrolling or strolling. Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start hearing. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com/real. Go to Shopify.com/real.

• 18:21Speaker 04

  That's Shopify.com/real.

• 18:24Speaker 00

  Want to be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip, the Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So rule the group chat and download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone.

• 18:50Josh Horowitz?

  And of course, the first like big break, I guess, was Streets of San Francisco, right? Working with the great Carl Malden. And so you come off of that, the great experience, which is a number of years, yes. Was it, I mean, at that time, transferring from a TV star to a film star was not the way to do it. That very rarely happened. Did you feel, was it as much baggage being a TV star as having that Kirk Douglas attached to your name? Did you feel that weight going into audition rooms and trying to jumpstart a film career?

• 19:21Speaker 02

  Well, you've got to remember, after I left Streets of San Francisco to produce Cuckoo's Nest, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, which is a whole story. And mind you, you have to help me, Josh, with time.

• 19:35Josh Horowitz?

  No, we're going to keep you here for five hours. They didn't tell you that?

• 19:39Speaker 02

  I guess, I don't know if you all know the story, but on Cuckoo's Nest, but my father had just done Spartacus, and he had a production company, and he found in galleries this book by Ken Kesey called One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. And he acquired the rights, and he made it into a play by Dale Washington, wrote the play. And he came back to New York at his height, right after Spartacus to play R.P. McMurphy, the play.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  The play didn't work. It didn't happen for whatever reasons. It was maybe ahead of its time. And his idea was originally that it would work out, that he would develop and do it in a picture. Didn't work out. And then for many years, he tried to develop it, and then he decided he was gonna sell it. And by that time, I had actually read the book in my second year of English classic American novels. And was in my episodic television. The quick jump was I did five movies in a row that were turkeys. All turkeys. So I was in episodic television doing that. Streets came up. And I said to Dad, I just had to be in the office, and I saw that he was selling it.

• 20:54Speaker 02

  And I said, "Please, don't, Dad. It's a great story. Don't sell it. Look, give me a chance. Let me run with it. I'm gonna try to get you the part. We'll get production together of the picture." And he said, "Okay, son."

• 21:07Josh Horowitz?

  And you're just in your mid twenties here, right?

• 21:08Speaker 02

  Um, twenty-three, twenty-four.

• 21:10Josh Horowitz?

  That's crazy.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  Right, you know? So, so he said, "Okay, son, I'll give you a shot. For a year." So I'm up and I go through his files about who showed any interest. And I find this guy Saul Zenz, who's in Berkeley, California, owns Fantasy Records as a jazz label, Milestone Prestige. But the one thing he had is he just signed a rock group called The Gollywogs. So he hired this group called The Gollywogs, and we gotta change their names. So they changed their names to Creedence Clearwater Revival. So he had all these jazz labels on one side, but Creedence is what played for Cuckoo's Nest.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  And so anyway, I got in contact with him, and he's in Berkeley, California. I'm shooting the series in San Francisco. And we figure out what had happened. So I acquired the rights to it. I come back to Dad, Dad, we got a deal, made a deal with it. And then we looked for a director with my partner Saul Zenz. We find Milos Forman.

• 22:14Josh Horowitz?

  Mason.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  And he's, seems like he's perfect. And then Milos tells me, "Michael, I love your father, but this is twenty years now later. He's too old. He's not right." So I had to do the hardest thing I ever had to do in my life, which is go to my father and say, "Dad, we got the money, we're gonna make the movie, but you're not gonna be in it." And that was rough. That was really rough.

• 22:51Josh Horowitz?

  Do you remember, like, how vividly do you remember that conversation? Like, how he reacted?

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Well, I just, there wasn't a lot of conversation. It was him just looking at me, you know? And wondering, I said, and wondering whether I had everything and everything. And I had, I tried. And so, but he'd give me the rights, and we'd sign things that was on the way. But I realize now, you have maybe four good parts in your entire career. Maybe five. You count them on one hand. And R.P. McMurphy was certainly one of them. So that was a really hard, hard moment. But I left the series after four seasons.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  I had a five-year contract, and God bless Carl Malden and Quinn Martin, the producer, because they would, in these days, they never would let you out of the, to go do the picture. We produced the picture. And, and the best moment was when I brought Dad up to see it in Berkeley, California, our final cut before, and he saw the picture. We came out afterwards. He said, "Son, it's a great job. It's a really good picture." And Jack, he was wonderful. And so, you know, I thought, "Oh, thank goodness." And so he was proud of it.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  But over the years, whenever he's wanted to, he would always say, "You never let me play that part." You know? And this, and then I said, "Yeah, Dad, but you never made more money in your life."

• 24:34Josh Horowitz?

  Look at all these Oscars it got. Look at how much money it made. Yeah, it was the right call. I mean, but that's, I can't even imagine that kind of conversation. So as the, so the producing career takes off off of, like, in this kind of interim period of your TV career, and then we get China Syndrome, we get Romancing the Stone, which establishes you as kind of like this, like, bona fide kind of action-adventure star. At that point, like, was there a point that you remember feeling like, "I have now established myself as my own man, as my own..."

• 25:04Speaker 02

  No, Josh, all I was established was I had four hits as a producer in a row. I had four hits as a producer. And after, after Cuckoo's Nest, I had a studio deal as a producer. But I had films, I was not an approved actor. So I had films, I produced, like, Starman with Jeff Bridges, right? I wanted to play that part.

• 25:29Josh Horowitz?

  You got an Oscar nomination for that.

• 25:30Speaker 02

  Jeff did, yeah. But no, I was still the television actor. And it's hard to explain because of streaming now. The separate rails, television actors and movie actors were on. And television was really treated in much more secondary factors. So even after those, and even like Romancing the Stone, I tried to get Burt Reynolds for it, you know? I tried to get it. And so I came in on the back end. So I was known as a producer. I think after those four pictures, Sid Steinberg, who was running Universal, brought me into

• 26:11Speaker 02

  his office and asked me if I wanted to run the studio, run the film division of the studio. And I was so taken aback because I never even thought of myself as this producer, but I was a successful producer. I said, "Well, no, I mean, I like to act." And he said, "Well, after three years, you can act," you know? I said, "No, that's not gonna work out." But, no, it didn't, it really, to get the credibility, it really wasn't until the year of Fatal Attraction, with, followed three months later by Wall Street coming out. So Fatal Attraction was the biggest grossing picture, or second biggest grossing picture of the year, and then Wall Street and getting the Oscar.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  And, you know, Dad had been nominated for three Oscars and never won. And I think me winning that Oscar, well, first, the nomination, I remember, meant so much to me because the nominating committee is your fellow actors.

• 27:08Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  So for me, it was the first time as a film actor was, "Man, I'm getting nominated by my fellow actors." So I remember how important that nomination was to me, and it gave me the kind of credibility as an actor, the confidence that I didn't have before. And then, you know, winning was gravy.

• 27:31Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, Gordon Gekko, one of the all-time great characters and performances, truly, in history. And look, Oliver Stone is famously a button pusher of a director. He likes to provoke his actors, and seemingly, he definitely tried that with you. And I guess it worked because it's an amazing performance. But can you take us a little bit inside that production, and in particular, the iconic speech, the "Greed is good" speech? Did that read to you as what it was going to become?

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Well, I just recently, as many had recently found out that I was not the first choice, which was a bit of a shock. But I was reading Oliver's, Oliver's book. Warren Beatty was the first person he went to for the role of Gekko. Then he went, and, and then he went to Officer and Gentlemen.

• 28:26Josh Horowitz?

  Richard Gere.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Richard Gere. Thank you. He went to Richard Gere before he got to me. So all along, when I first met with Oliver, I said, "Why'd you choose me?" And he said, "Well, I wanted an actor who had some business acumen in, you know, my producing." Oh, I said, "Okay, that makes sense." I found later I was a third choice.

• 28:50Speaker 02

  But it was a, it was a great script.

• 28:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:55Speaker 02

  I mean Oliver, it was a really, really, he and Sally Weiser, it was a wonderful, complicated script with a lot of dialogue. And yeah, Oliver's got a tough way of working. I was in, in the picture for about two weeks. We'd been shooting for about two weeks before the knock on my trailer door. And Oliver came in, he said, hi. I said, hi. And he looked at me and said, how you doing? I said, um, yeah, okay. He said, you doing drugs? I said, no, I'm not doing drugs. Because you look like you never acted before in your life. Gordon Gekko.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  Well, I guess, and I never go look at, I mean, the dailies and stuff because you'll only see the bad stuff, so I don't like to do that. But there's a problem. I said, well, I guess I better go look at a couple of the scenes. So I go into the editing room, I look at a couple of scenes. They're both in Charlie Sheen, the seduction scene in the back of a car and 21 Club scene. And I'm looking at them, I'm super critical. I think they're pretty good. You know, I think they're pretty good. So I come back to Oliver and I say, Oliver, I think they're, they're pretty good. He says, yeah, they are, aren't they? I said, what are you doing? What are you doing?

• 30:18Speaker 02

  And Oliver was ready for me to hate his guts for the rest of that picture. It would make me just that much angrier.

• 30:28Josh Horowitz?

  That edge.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  That much of an edge. And I gotta thank you for these. You wanna look at Oliver Stone's films, you know, you start with Jimmy Woods in El Salvador, Tom Cruise in 4th of July, Charlie Sheen in Platoon, Kevin Costner, JFK, Val Kilmer, and The Doors. My, he has gotten the best performances out of actors. And the difference, if you were to ask me, the major difference between him and every other actor, is he's a motherfucker. He did it, most directors are like the patriarch figure, you know, actors were all insecure people and he, and patriarch, the director takes care of them.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Oliver is like he's back in Vietnam and you're in the trenches with him and you better be as good as he is. So I, I adore him and I admire him. And I just actually did a little part in the picture, he's got called White Lies, which is a biography of his life. And I'm playing his father.

• 31:31Josh Horowitz?

  Well, there's karma for you, there's something there.

• 31:35Speaker 05

  More Happy, Say Confused, coming up.

• 31:42Speaker 00

  Wanna be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip, the Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So rule the group chat and download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone.

• 32:06Speaker 06

  From the parents behind Law and Order comes a mystery the whole family can enjoy. Patrick Picklebottom, Everyday Mysteries. Step into the whimsical world of Patrick Picklebottom, a precocious 11-year-old with a love for reading and an uncanny ability to solve mysteries. Inspired by the beloved children's book of the same name, this podcast vividly brings Patrick's tales of deduction and everyday adventures to life as he unravels baffling enigmas and solves clever cases. Patrick Picklebottom, Everyday Mysteries is perfect for kids and is just as entertaining for grownups who love a good mystery.

• 32:44Speaker 06

  The whole family can listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 32:54Josh Horowitz?

  So like in this series of like this insane run that you have from like kind of like the late 80s on for the next 10, 15 years, it's like not only are you in a series of amazing films, but they're, they're zeitgeist movies. They're movies that like become part of the cultural conversation. It's Fatal Attraction, it's Falling Down, it's Basic Instinct. And they, they inspire conversation, they inspire controversy, they're all like debated, there are protests for all these movies for various reasons. Do you, that must have been such a high to go from kind of like not only great film to great film, but zeitgeist film to zeitgeist film, the feeling like you're the center of culture.

• 33:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was pretty cool. It was, well, I'm a, I'm a news junkie, you know, and I follow the news and, and so, you know, for a long time, going way back, I've, I've felt this struggle of roles between men and women, just an overall feeling that people are having a tough time finding their positions. And it goes back to actually casting on, on Cuckoo's Nest when no actress wanted to play Nurse Ratchet.

• 34:03Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  Because back, back then, in, in the, in the women's movement, the idea of a woman being the villain was not acceptable yet. And so Angela Lansbury, Colleen Dewhurst, we had five different major actresses turn that part down until we found Louise. So I've always had a little sense of what was going on. And, but the thing you have to realize is you gotta have a good script rather than a good message.

• 34:39Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:40Speaker 02

  I mean, if you can get a message in there, that's great. But I'm, I think one of the issues and problems I've been having more recently in films is they're trying to get messages out there rather than make, make the film.

• 34:54Josh Horowitz?

  You also like had this run of like, I mean, forgive me, but you were kind of like the king of like the sexy thriller. You had like all of these films, it was Disclosure and Basic Instinct. And you're doing like, you know, sometimes like really extreme scenes, like right in the heyday of this kind of like era for that kind of film. A Day Before Intimacy Coordinators. Do you have, do you have thoughts on that? Like this is the era of the intimacy coordinator. You didn't do it with that back then.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  No, no. We just did the old fashioned way, you know? But

• 35:26Josh Horowitz?

  It all worked out.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  There's a, I mean, there's, there's an art to sex scenes in, in, in films. It's, it's not easy to do things like shadowing, you know, people when you're on top and this and that. But the, the big thing with sex scenes is trust. And as long as, and I'm saying the lady trusting me, obviously I trust her, but like a dance, like a dance move, you're taking the lead. And if you just talk it out slowly, kiss, kiss, right, looking at you, is it right to touch your breast? Yes, all right, I'm gonna touch your breast.

• 36:09Speaker 02

  Kiss, kiss, and you, you do it and it's just like, like choreographing a fight scene. It really is. You start very slowly, very slowly and this like that. And, and then an action is boom, boom. Anyway, it makes it all, makes it look like it really happens. But it's, it's the trust issue. And, and I, I always felt it's dick awkward enough for, for, for ladies in terms of mostly being surrounded by a male, a male crew and everything, especially in those days, to make sure that they were as comfortable

• 36:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:44Speaker 02

  as possible. And also, Josh, this, my producing hat. And because what I realized that separated me from a lot of people was I really didn't worry about the part. I mean, if I found a script, I just read the script and I loved it, you know, I just, it made me scared, whatever the hell the story was, I loved it. Then I would go back and look at my part. But I've always thought, you know, your part, role is one of, one small part of the whole.

• 37:19Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  And so what you really need, and it's something Paul Newman used to talk about a lot, you, you want better actors around you. You want the best you can get because it's, it's the whole thing that matters. I mean, I'd rather be good in a little movie than lousy in a, you know, in a big part.

• 37:37Josh Horowitz?

  Well, and that reminds me of, of a few other films. I mean, I think of something like Traffic where you're a big part of the ensemble there. And even something like, honestly, one of my favorite films, and you are the lead in it, co-lead, is The American President.

• 37:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 37:50Josh Horowitz?

  But it also, that movie works, of course, it's you and Annette, but it works because of Martin Sheen and Annette Bier Smith and just down the line. It's an amazing ensemble. And that's, that's a famous Aaron Sorkin script, of course. And I always think, I think of so many iconic scenes from that. But I also think of like that, that final speech, that I'm Andrew Shepard and I'm the president. Do you remember that speech in particular, that dialogue of Aaron Sorkin?

• 38:15Speaker 02

  Well, I, I remember it because the movie is made 35 years ago. And what Andrew Shepard said then is prevalent to the situation now.

• 38:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 38:28Speaker 02

  So it's, it's, it's exciting, you know, on one side and very depressing on the other. One movie that is, happens to be one of my favorites, that's a really ensemble picture and never achieved a kind of, you know, commercial success, was a film called Wonder Boys. And if anybody, you know, if anybody, if you ever get a chance, it's, it's a, it's a great picture. It's Robert Downey Jr., Frances McDormand, Tobey Maguire, myself.

• 39:00Josh Horowitz?

  Directed by Curtis Hansen, fantastic.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, Curtis Hansen directed it. I never quite understood why, but it's, it's a charming, shaggy dog.

• 39:09Josh Horowitz?

  Connecting to your old hippie days a little bit. That guy was, was cut a little bit of that, right?

• 39:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right. It's like a joint after, that's right.

• 39:16Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, speaking of which, like you can tell I'm a cinephile. I wanna talk, I could talk to you endlessly about every single film and your filmography. I do wanna like talk a little bit about the stuff that's in this book that some of it's making headlines, is like you talking about the difficulties in your life outside of your career. You know, your first marriage, that, that was a struggle, it seems like, right from the beginning. Your difficulties with, with drugs, with Cameron, your son. You didn't need to write a book that covered that. You could have just been like this, My Life in the Movies. Was it hard to kind of like go back and really kind of relive all of these difficult parts?

• 39:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yes, I mean, it's, you know, we always like to try to forget the more painful parts, but I didn't really think there was any sense in writing a book, especially one that, you know, I wanted my grandchildren to understand

• 40:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:10Speaker 02

  without, you know, sharing the whole story. And I think part of the success, actually, and this is the part I was so nervous about in terms of coming out and having that kind of vulnerability. But people seem to appreciate it and understand the roles. Yeah, I, I mean, one of the first things that shocked me when I was working on it, when I, I met my, my first wife, Deandra, at Jimmy Carter's inauguration, January 20th, 1977. And I married her on March 20th. I married her 60 days later.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  Well, I, I couldn't believe it. And when I realized it, and I, you know, invitations and everything, so I must have asked Deandra to get married about 30 days after, after I knew her. And so needless to say, we had a lot of grounded covers. And she was a beautiful lady, obviously was infatuated with her. But we had, she never knew anything about Hollywood.

• 41:22Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 41:22Speaker 02

  And I was already into the late 70s, early 80s, into my alcohol and drug phase. She was nothing about any of that. So we had, we had our struggles and, for instance, the, the realization that I had an affair with Kathleen Turner on Romancing the Stone. We were separated, Deandra and I, at the time, but still that happened. And I, well, hell, I'm selling a book, man, I figured I gotta have a couple of the stories about, that was one of those stories where people, no, I told you, I knew it, I knew it, you know?

• 42:03Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's even also Basic Instinct, like, I feel like everybody's like, oh, maybe him and Sharon.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:08Josh Horowitz?

  It's Gene Triplehorn.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  Gene Triplehorn, that's right, Sharon was my beard.

• 42:14Josh Horowitz?

  Now, here's my question, did Catherine, your lovely wife, did she know everything? All of these stories going?

• 42:20Speaker 02

  I, I, I'll be home to ask her, because she, she just got the book two days ago, and I've, I've told her, and this was all, as I say, B.C., before Catherine. So, you know, and, you know, we have a 25-year age difference, so I'm looking at some of these films, like with Kathleen, Catherine would have been seven years old. So, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't feel bad, I think she understands.

• 42:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. And, and on the, you know, the alcohol, the drug stuff, I mean, do you see that in your, like, when you see certain roles, do you see what you were going through personally that you were struggling, like, is there a certain film of yours that was compromised, you think, by what you were going through?

• 43:02Speaker 02

  I don't think so, there, there might have been, but the trouble with alcohol and drugs is, as long as you show up for work, you don't think you have a problem, right? So as long as you show up in the morning, this has always been the story, but I'm, I'm here, you don't, you don't have a problem. So, and, and again, our career, career was the most important thing in many of the lives, at least certainly with I, with my life and my ambition was going on, and certainly was a difficult effect on my first marriage with Deandra, because I was, I was working all the time.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  And the fact that you could halfway function. But then, it was really the culmination, I think, of dealing with my son's problems. And then my stepfather, we haven't talked about this, but my mom remarried when I was 12, my dad remarried when I was about seven, and was my stepmother for 65 years. And I was really fortunate, because the four of them loved each other. They, they get together, they had dinners together, and there was no friction between my mother or father after the divorce. And I think that really helped me so much.

• 44:26Speaker 02

  So I preach to people a lot of times about, you know, stepparents are fantastic. I'm sure there's some nasty ones out there, which we make movies about. The reality for most of them to assume, you know, out of their love for their spouse, they assume the responsibility of somebody else's kids. And so Bill Derrid, who my father was my stepfather, my father said, Bill, and told him, Bill was your surrogate father, I'm so grateful to Bill, your stepfather, for raising you and, and living back east. So at that time, right before Bill passed away, and I loved him dearly, and the whole

• 45:08Speaker 02

  thing was too much in the marriage, so I went to rehab, thank goodness. I mean, I had a few friends that were advising me, Michael, it might be a good idea to check in, and so that was very helpful.

• 45:21Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I can't imagine the complex series of emotions connected to your son, then, who has his own struggles, then, right, with, with drugs, and eventually ends up in prison for over seven years, which, I mean, I mean, unfathomable for a parent, I would imagine. So I would imagine you've gone through all the cycles of, of grief and guilt, and thankfully, it seems, have come out the other side, he's in a good place now. But you must have had time to reflect on that whole journey in the writing of this book.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's not a pretty picture. You, you, you wonder how young or how early he was when he saw me acting out, what influence I might have had. But the reality is that there's, there's a gene, there is a gene, there's a risk gene. Certain families out there, the Kennedys for one, you look at, who have, who like to take risks, and it could go the wrong way. And, yeah, Cameron has had a really, really, has had a really rough time, he's out the other side, I have two beautiful grandchildren with him.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  I'm proud to say that all three of my children are actors, and they're good. I mean, I, I feel like my father, you know, they can shake my head, you really want to do this, you really do, but they, but they do. And, you know, you get through it, there's adversity, this is why, you know, I, you know, I gave it the title that I did the book.

• 46:55Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, another big adversity you faced, and I'm sure everybody in this room can relate to it, is you faced cancer, and that was, you were diagnosed, I believe, about 16 years ago.

• 47:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:04Josh Horowitz?

  And you talk about it openly, and about the struggle there, and you also say that it made you a better actor, it made you kind of a better human being, you've like, kind of found the silver lining in that very difficult journey. Can you explain what you mean when you say why, why it's kind of like made you the better man that you are today?

• 47:21Speaker 02

  Because my career was no longer the most important thing in my life. My, my family was, and the people closest to me. And that's lasted, and that's continued after the 16 years since I first had the, the cancer. It was sort of similar, my father's case, he had a helicopter crash. I mean, he was 72, he was with a friend with a helicopter, they were going up in the pits aerobatics, which is one of those tail draggers, was taking off and couldn't see, and hit the helicopter at about 40 feet in the air.

• 48:00Speaker 02

  The pits went down and exploded, an 18-year-old pilot was killed with an instructor, and my father's helicopter fell about 40 feet down, rotisserie going, gasoline pouring out, and it didn't catch fire. And he was, he didn't break a single bone in his body, Kirk Douglas. Not a single, but he was black, he's completely, his body, he was black the entire, and he, the hospital, and he started thinking, why am I alive, and this 18-year-old kid is, is, is dead?

• 48:36Speaker 02

  And so he began a return to his Talmudic roots, and got together with a rabbi every week, and began, began studying the Old Testament. And at 72, he lived 103, his third act, he was a different man. Because he too, his career was now secondary, and his kindness, and his generosity, his foundation, giving everything, he's giving away, and his thoughtfulness, his ability to listen, he totally changed as a man, and our relationship really bonded.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  And I, in my own way, have felt that, coming out of the other end of cancer, and realizing what is so important. And particularly in this concocted world we're in right now, I, I'm, I was born in 1944, so I'm not in the war, but this is by far the most complicated, difficult time I can remember, not only in this country, but on the planet. And so, for me, you know, the only way to make any sense of it was to go back to the roots, to say, you gotta, you gotta start with your family, you know, and remind yourself, I know we all got problems, but sometimes you learn not to make the biggest effort

• 50:02Speaker 02

  to a stranger, and take the person closest to you for granted. But, you know, every day, you make that, and from the family to your community, realizing, you know, those people who run for town council, maybe, democracy is complicated, and it really realize how much more effort, when you look at our forefathers, how much time and effort they spent into maintaining, creating this democracy. It's a beautiful system, a beautiful system, but we really gotta work at it.

• 50:33Josh Horowitz?

  I feel like I just got a bonus scene from the American president, I got like the sequel, sequel moment right from it. President Shepherd, thank you for your service.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  I'm only writing like Aaron Sorkin.

• 50:42Josh Horowitz?

  We've got some questions from our wonderful audience. This one is actually one I wanted to ask as well. When you look back on your career, is there a part that you regret turning down?

• 50:54Speaker 02

  No, I've got a lot that I'm glad I did, but I don't really have. There was a possibility in the very beginning of doing Love Story, but I didn't really have it. Ryan O'Neal, he wasn't sure if he was gonna do it, but no, I don't have anything.

• 51:11Josh Horowitz?

  Is there, does anyone come to mind you've worked with either on screen or producing you feel hasn't received the acclaim or recognition that they deserved? Who's an unsung great talent you feel that you've worked with?

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Well, she's gonna get an honorary Oscar this year. That would be Glenn Close, who's been nominated like eight times, and is an extraordinary, extraordinary actress. So I'm happy that she's gonna get that. There's so many really, really good actors out there. It's just a question, as I say, if you get one of those four or five times, you get the good part.

• 51:49Josh Horowitz?

  You still tight with Mr. DeVito, with Danny DeVito? You go way back with that guy?

• 51:53Speaker 02

  Still tight. He was so sweet. He read the book one night. He can't, he's not a good sleeper, so he was reading the book all night. Tight means like he's bawling. He touched him, but he made a lot to me because he knows me. We were roommates, you know, right out of when I was out of college in New York here. And so I was very, very sweet. It was lovely, glad from him.

• 52:19Josh Horowitz?

  Let me ask you a couple other not-so-random items in your filmography. You devote some time because it's kind of tied to your cancer journey to Behind the Candelabra, which is a remarkable performance, working with Steven Soderbergh and Matt Damon. Did you feel out on a limb on that one? That's a bold swing. That's a big choice.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  Well, yeah. But it was, you know, I was coming out of my cancer, wondering if I ever was gonna work again. And God bless Steven Soderbergh, you know. We'd done Traffic together before. And it was just, it was so wonderful. And I love playing character parts. I've always hidden behind wanting to do more character work. So we had to wait a year because I lost so much weight to kind of gain some. And I remember we got together before the picture was starting. I threw a lunch at a friend's house out in Malibu at the beach, and Steven Soderbergh was there, and my kids were there. And I know Steven

• 53:23Speaker 02

  was looking at me. I'm not sure, because we had talked. It was a complicated piece. And all of a sudden, my son Dylan started going through things. Well, thank you very much for doing all the things. And all of a sudden, Soderbergh realized how much rehearsal I must be doing, that his kid is here playing the role. So he gave him a lot, much more security. But we had a great time on that. And we had, I mean, when Rob Lowe came in, oh, the psychiatrist, all the uplifts and everything. Matt and I, hey, how about, this is a few years ago, how brave is Matt? Prime of his career, right? You know, go at me from the rear, you know. I love him. I remember we were shooting that scene, and Steven Soderbergh

• 54:08Speaker 02

  is also the cameraman and director, and he's figuring out how to stage it. So he said, what, you're lying across the bed, and Matt, you're behind. I'll be down low like this. I say, okay, okay, and action. And Matt takes off going. I'm supposed to be taking poppers, and this, like that. We do the whole scene. And then, all right, cut. And he puts the camera down, takes his glasses off, and he says, I have no notes.

• 54:35Josh Horowitz?

  There's one film that's actually, I don't even know if you cover in this book, but I love it so much. You talk about iconic filmmakers. David Fincher on The Game. That's a great movie. I really love that movie. Did you, did you and David get along? I mean, he's a tough cookie himself. He's...

• 54:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, we did. He just, he does so many takes.

• 54:56Josh Horowitz?

  I know, yeah.

• 54:57Speaker 02

  He does, no, I mean, no, I admired him so much. And I love that picture. I have a big check of the book. I have 10 chapters on 10 different movies. Because when I first started producing, I read a book called Memo by David O. Selznick, which is the greatest book to read if you want to learn about producing, because it's all about his notes in all the pictures that he produced, Gone with the Wind and the others, which gives you an idea of what a producer can do. And so that was a big help. So in the middle of the book, I got 10 chapters on different, different movies, starting from the very beginnings

• 55:42Speaker 02

  of a book, and understand how they start and create, and sort of an education on that. And unfortunately, when I realized how many good pictures I made.

• 55:52Josh Horowitz?

  You made too many damn good movies.

• 55:54Speaker 02

  The Game, and Black Rain, which I liked a lot. Black Rain was not included.

• 56:00Josh Horowitz?

  And Wonder Boys. Wonder Boys, you have enough for a volume two. You've got plenty.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  Wonder Boys is another one.

• 56:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. I've always wanted that shirt that Sean Penn presents you to at the end. I was left for dead in Mexico, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt. I've been looking for that online for years. You also, I mean, just like as a comic book geek, it was fun to see you pop up in the Ant-Man films in recent years. And those have those unique challenges, obviously, even in like that last one, like green screen, the whole thing. Is it true that you asked to be killed off in the last Ant-Man film?

• 56:32Speaker 02

  I would've been killed off after the second one, but they wouldn't let me. No, after the cancer, you know, and after having it behind the candelabra, there was a moment, I said, well, what have I done? What am I interested in? And comedy. I am such a fan of comedy, and just so curious, and resent the fact that when Oscar time comes, comedians are never acknowledged. And yet, we all love our friends that are funny. We all cherish them, because there's not that many of them. And, you know, so what makes comedy? So when

• 57:14Speaker 02

  Chuck Lorre came to me with Behind, yeah, with the Kaminsky Method, with Alan Arkin, I said, man, what a chance. What a chance to work with two comedy geniuses. And I would watch Alan Arkin talk about Jewish, Jewish humor. And, you know, Alan Arkin only have to, eh, eh, you know. And it was wonderful. So I said, okay, that takes care of, I feel like I've learned more about comedy. Then I said, I've never done a green screen movie. I said, I've never, so I said, I'd like to, my agents, I'd like to do one of these green screen movies to see what they're like, you know, because it's amazing. It's nothing, just a green screen. They show you the pictures, what's your look like when it's all finished.

• 57:59Speaker 02

  It's hard acting, man. It's really, it's very copied.

• 58:02Josh Horowitz?

  You earned, you earned why you earned.

• 58:03Speaker 02

  They tell you, all right, it's coming at you, there, this and that, you know. And so we did Ant-Man. Paul Rudd was a wonderful actor, a lovely group. But then, you know, you can't get out of it.

• 58:16Josh Horowitz?

  You're like reading the fine print. Oh, my God, they've got me.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  The fine print. And then finally, I had never done a period movie. All my career, I'd never done a period movie. And the Franklin series, the Ben Franklin series came up for the year, that was the end of 2023. And then I kind of called it quits. I said, you know, I finished, I said, well, I'll take a rest. And I took a rest for a while, and I loved it. I just, and I realized I'd been working really hard, Josh, for over 60 years, you know. And so I'm taking off now for a while, for about a year and a half. And then Shane

• 58:58Speaker 02

  Salerno, who I co-wrote this book with, was a, is a screenwriter. And when I was in the hospital, I write in the book, one of the things that was weird when I had cancer is people don't like to, you know, I didn't get many visits. People, they're a little over there, here's stage four, you know, it's like they don't know whether they're supposed to say goodbye, or, you know, this. But Shane, who I didn't remember, I remember we did a rewrite, started writing with these notes, you can be, like, they really meant a lot to me. And then over the years, he kept that saying, you should write a book.

• 59:39Speaker 02

  I said, your story's amazing, man. No, no, no. And then after about a year and a half of this resting up, I thought about it. And I realized, God, between my father and I, we got, you know, 80 years in the business, and 120, 130 movies, and kind of a legacy. And there really not any other families were quite like this before. And now my kids are actors. And so, and then also the big thing was memory. I said, if I could do this, my memory's not that good in the past. And so this allowed you to go back and rediscover

• 1:00:20Speaker 02

  these memories and the friendships. So it all came together. And so it's been 18 months, and I'm really proud and happy the way it's turned out.

• 1:00:31Josh Horowitz?

  No, we're loving all the stories.

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  A chance to say hello to everybody again.

• 1:00:38Josh Horowitz?

  And truly, I know you guys all have the books. This is the tip of the iceberg. It's an amazing read and it's an amazing life well-lived. Every Happy Sad Confused episode in my podcast ends with some profoundly random questions. Michael, are you ready for some random questions?

• 1:00:52Speaker 02

  I hope so.

• 1:00:53Josh Horowitz?

  We'll see. Are you a dog or a cat person?

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  Dog.

• 1:00:59Josh Horowitz?

  Do you collect anything?

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:01:00Josh Horowitz?

  Do you collect anything?

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  I used, I mean, I used to, well, when I was a kid, I collected stamps. Then when I made some money with Cuckoo's Nest, I collected Hudson River School paintings.

• 1:01:17Speaker 02

  And since then, no.

• 1:01:18Josh Horowitz?

  Have you ever been a video game player, an arcade game back in the day? No video game you've enjoyed?

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:01:23Josh Horowitz?

  That's fine.

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  Not a video game, nor was I a comic book guy.

• 1:01:27Josh Horowitz?

  That's okay, we forgive you. What's the wallpaper, the background on your phone?

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  Is my, an older picture of my kids that this should be updated.

• 1:01:39Josh Horowitz?

  I wouldn't imagine this happens to you, but are you ever mistaken for another actor? Who's the last actor you were mistaken for?

• 1:01:46Speaker 02

  That's a good question.

• 1:01:50Speaker 02

  No, I, well, I get, sometimes I get, but let me tell you this quick story. So Dad, before he passed away, he was saying, "Michael, Michael."

• 1:02:05Speaker 02

  I'm looking at one of my movies on television the other night, right? I'm looking at the movie, "Michael." I can't even remember this word is. And then I look at it again and I say, "Wait a minute, that's Michael."

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  That's not, that's not me. So I'll get, people get excited and they go, "Kirk, Kirk." I said, "No, he's dead."

• 1:02:27Josh Horowitz?

  You were great at Spartacus, you were amazing.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  And I do see, I must say, even older I get, I see tremendous resemblance.

• 1:02:37Josh Horowitz?

  You see it in the mirror sometimes, when you catch yourself, you see it?

• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  No, I see it in photographs.

• 1:02:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  I don't look at myself in the mirror that much, Josh.

• 1:02:46Josh Horowitz?

  What's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  The worst note a director's ever given me? I can tell you the best one.

• 1:02:56Josh Horowitz?

  That's fine, too.

• 1:02:57Speaker 02

  Faster, just go faster.

• 1:02:59Josh Horowitz?

  That's helpful, you like that?

• 1:03:00Speaker 02

  Everybody loves, when in doubt, pick up the pace.

• 1:03:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. And nothing sticks out as like aggressively bad one?

• 1:03:08Speaker 02

  The worst, no, one of the problems, I wish I got more notes. I think too many times directors were intimidated because I was a producer.

• 1:03:17Josh Horowitz?

  You were their boss, kind of.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Well, or just I knew, I knew it so, I would have loved to have gotten more help because I was more, much more insecure as an actor than I was as a producer.

• 1:03:29Josh Horowitz?

  And in the spirit of Happy Sad Confused, who's an actor that always makes you happy? You see them on screen, you're just in a better mood.

• 1:03:36Speaker 02

  Well, Albert Finney was my inspiration. I loved, I loved Albert Finney for, for years. Jack, of course, is a lovely actor.

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  There's, there's so many, but it's also the part, it's also the part. Bryan Cranston is wonderful, too, I like Bryan Cranston.

• 1:04:00Josh Horowitz?

  Is there a movie that makes you sad?

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  I remember years ago, remember, anybody here remember a movie called Lily? Yeah, a song of love, here's a sad song. I remember that when I was a kid.

• 1:04:19Speaker 02

  I loved True for the Road.

• 1:04:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:21Speaker 02

  That was a really, really sweet picture. I have to admit, Josh, I am not a large moviegoer. I've had a few years, I've turned into a little bit of a sports and news junkie.

• 1:04:34Josh Horowitz?

  That's okay, all is forgiven. You make them, you don't have to watch them.

• 1:04:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:38Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, a food that makes you confused, you don't get it. Why do people eat that?

• 1:04:43Speaker 02

  Marmite.

• 1:04:44Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  Marmite, can't figure that out. My wife, I look at her, I don't know what we have in common.

• 1:04:53Josh Horowitz?

  This is the biggest source of friction at home, the marmite discussions?

• 1:04:56Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, I just said, "How can you eat that?"

• 1:05:00Josh Horowitz?

  Well, good luck getting past the marmite. Congratulations, and we're so privileged. Again, this is the day this book comes out, this wonderful book, One Hell of a Ride. You all have this copy, for those folks watching at home, check it out. It's a remarkable read.

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  Thank you all.

• 1:05:15Josh Horowitz?

  An absolute living legend, Mr. Michael Douglas. Give it up one more time, everybody.

• 1:05:18Speaker 02

  Thank you very much, thank you.