Tom Hiddleston and Genden Phuntsok

Tom Hiddleston and Genden Phuntsok join the pod from Telluride Film Festival! This is Tom’s seventh time on Happy Sad Confused, but Genden’s first! Tom and Genden tell Josh all about their new film TENZING, the time a group of monks recognized Tom and Willem Dafoe while shooting the film, and whether they’d actually climb Mount Everest. Plus, Tom spills about his MAD MAX: FURY ROAD audition and AVENGERS: DOOMSDAY! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENT! 10/13 -- Joe Manganiello in NY -- Tickets here: https://www.92ny.org/event/joe-manganiello-with-josh-horowitz-bloodlines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

  Three of the most quiet, self-effacing monks approached us. And one of the monks said, "Excuse me, Mr. Loki? Mr. Green Goblin? May we have a photograph?"

• 0:47Speaker 02

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins.

• 0:55Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused, coming at you from the Telluride Film Festival with the stars of Tenzing, Genden Putzak, and of course, one of our favorites, Tom Hiddleston. Hey, guys, thanks for joining me on another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. If you're watching this, maybe you're wondering, "Where the hell is Josh?" This is a little bit nicer than his usual apartment or studio setting. Yes, I'm in Telluride, Colorado. This is maybe my favorite weekend of the year at the Telluride Film Festival, where I got a chance to see some of the best films of the year, world premiering here. And also talking to some great filmmakers and actors like my guests on the podcast today. Of course, Tom Hiddleston. There is no greater friend to Happy, Sad, Confused than Tom. And also, a new friend, Genden Putzak,

• 1:40Josh Horowitz?

  who stars as Tenzing Norgay in this remarkable true story, of course, of Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay and their amazing ascent up Everest in 1953. This is a film that comes out in a few weeks. It comes out in October. So consider this an extended kind of sneak preview of this film. As you'll sense from the conversation I have with Tom and Gendin, this was quite an undertaking, quite an adventure. They shot on location in Nepal and New Zealand, I believe. And it's a subject that Tom, who, as you know from past conversations I've had with him, I'm sure, he's passionate about every project. But this one in particular feels like a very special adventure for him. So I'm thrilled to share this with you guys. This was shot right before their big world premiere

• 2:25Josh Horowitz?

  here in Telluride. I got a chance to see the film a couple of weeks ago back in New York. But a really appropriate, beautiful, idyllic setting for this story about nature and man's bond with nature, I suppose. Before we get to that conversation, a couple of quick reminders, as always. Check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happy, sad, confused for early access, discount codes, live events. We've got a live one coming up with Joe Manganiello, October 13th, and many more to be announced very, very soon. I'll say quickly, just hopefully get a sense of the surroundings from this introduction here. But Telluride Film Festival, I can't say enough about it. I've been coming for five years now. And I've seen so many great films here.

• 3:05Josh Horowitz?

  Wild Horse 9, the debut, if I can get my words out correctly today. Off to see Alpha Gang in just a few minutes, starring Chris Pine, who I just ran into. He's petting a dog, of course. Like, this is the nature of Telluride. You run into folks all the time. You know, I've seen, like, Lea Seydoux running around. I've seen Emma Stone twice. I've seen, you know, literally some of the best actors and filmmakers on the planet. And it is such a cool, relaxed vibe. Because everybody is here pretty much for the right reasons. We all love film. We all love celebrating great film. And no festival programs better than Telluride. So as long as I'm able to, I'm going to keep coming to this festival. And hopefully, you guys can get a sense of how special it is from these conversations.

• 3:50Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, I'm going to take you now to this conversation with Tom and Genden. I'll note quickly that Genden's first language is not English. So, I mean, props to him. I have no second language skills. So he's great, but he used an interpreter here and there. So there might be like, you know, a little bit of a miscommunication or just, you know, a language barrier at times. But he's fantastic, charming, smart, and wonderful. So I'm thrilled that I got a chance to talk to him. And obviously, always thrilled to talk to Tom, who is an amazing advocate for this film. There's also some fun stuff, a little bit of doomsday in there, a little bit of Mad Max talk, because it was recently revealed to me in a previous conversation that Tom auditioned for Mad Max: Fury Road way back when. So I had to get that story out of him, too, obviously. All of that and more on this episode. I hope you guys enjoy it.

• 4:35Josh Horowitz?

  Here you go. Genden, a pleasure to meet you, sir. Welcome to the podcast.

• 4:40Speaker 04

  Thank you. Nice to meet you, too.

• 4:41Josh Horowitz?

  And Tom, our 300th adventure together has taken us to Telluride.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  For the first time.

• 4:46Josh Horowitz?

  For the first time.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  We've had many adventures.

• 4:48Josh Horowitz?

  That's right.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  But never in Telluride for me. Never together.

• 4:51Josh Horowitz?

  Congratulations. I'm very excited to talk to you on a number of levels. This film was about to premiere here in Telluride. I can't think of a better, more suitable place for its premiere. Tell me a little bit about, I don't know, just the appropriateness maybe of this festival. Does this feel like a good landing spot for Tenzing?

• 5:12Speaker 01

  I think so. Here we are in the mountains.

• 5:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  The American mountains, many miles from the high mountains of the Himalayas. I've never, you've never been to Telluride before, right?

• 5:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, it is the first time.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  First time for me, too. We've done many things together for the first time.

• 5:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:31Josh Horowitz?

  You had to.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  We had to. But even just driving up here actually reminded me of, I think, most people land in Montrose. And driving up, it's a night, what is it? An hour and a half to drive into Telluride? And it reminded me, and I said out loud, "This makes me think of the trek that we did."

• 5:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's really similar.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  From Lukla to base camp. Of course, the topography and the geology is slightly different. But it was the pine forests and the rushing rivers and the big sky. And then the mountains getting larger and larger the deeper you go. Yeah, I mean, we could talk about that for a full three hours, that trek.

• 6:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:17Josh Horowitz?

  I was going to say, I mean, any film, hopefully, film can feel like an adventure. But the nature of this film, the story you're telling, the way you shot it, it feels like a great adventure. I mean, for you, has any experience compared to this, Genden? I mean, being front and center, playing this iconic role. Can you encapsulate a little bit about what it feels like to be here about to premiere this film?

• 6:40Speaker 04

  For us, also the movie, when we filmed this movie, also similar, like, the environment, like this.

• 6:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 6:47Speaker 04

  And this movie festival is also like that.

• 6:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 6:50Speaker 04

  As we are, I have a feeling like we are very close to our movie. And also, our movie connected with the Telluride Movie Festival.

• 7:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:00Speaker 04

  Because the location is really nice and beautiful. And also, very close the, our movie's view.

• 7:08Josh Horowitz?

  Absolutely.

• 7:09Speaker 04

  So, yeah.

• 7:10Josh Horowitz?

  This film, I mean, I was privileged enough to see this a couple of weeks back before I got here. You do, you both are excellent in it. It's very impressively well told by the director, who previously had done a lot of documentary work that clearly she brought to this.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:25Josh Horowitz?

  I reached out to you as soon as I saw it, because I was so impressed.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  It was amazing. It was so, I didn't know you were watching. I didn't know there was a screening. And I was so touched and moved by what you said. Yeah.

• 7:35Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I guess my question for you is, because I could tell from your response and our conversations, that, look, you take on all films, and they all hope to aspire to something great. But this does feel like a very unique adventure in your life and career.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Entirely, entirely. The, it's been a long time coming as well. I first met Jennifer Peetam in the spring of 2023. And she sent me the script and this beautiful letter. And I found the script incredibly moving. Just that the statement embedded inside the story, which was to bring Tenzing from the background into the foreground. And to reframe a familiar story about these two men who did an extraordinary thing, an impossible thing, an unimaginable thing, a thing that had never been done before.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  And the fellowship and the friendship between them. And in her letter, she said to me, I can't remember if I've told you this. She said, it was right at the end of the letter where she was outlining her kind of mission for the film. And then she said, "We've never met before, but I have a sense that you're the kind of person who'd be up for an adventure like this." And my first question was, "How did you, how did you know?" Like, because I am.

• 9:00Josh Horowitz?

  I'm down. This sounds like an adventure.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  But not, yeah. And I, when we met that first time, she said, "We're going to go to real mountains. We're going to do this in Nepal. We're going to do this in the foothills of the Himalayas. We'll go to Kathmandu. The British Embassy of Kathmandu will be the British Embassy of Kathmandu." And then, and then the second half of it was in New Zealand. And Edmund Hillary is among the most beloved and revered of all New Zealand citizens. He's, he's so, he's held so dear in the minds of all New Zealanders. He's still on the $5 note. To be playing Edmund Hillary on the southern Alps of the South Island of New Zealand, and having never been.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  The whole thing was just climbing in real mountains, hanging off real crevasses. The two of us roped together, real snow, real ice.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Real crampons, real ice axes. It was, there is no, uh, there's no green screen. There's never in a studio. This is all real.

• 10:09Josh Horowitz?

  And you feel it, watching the movie. You can, having watched a thousand movies, we all know whether intellectually or emotionally, we can feel that you guys were out there. For you, for Genden, I mean, like, I, as I understand that there was a bit of, you know, you have to get to know your co-star. What was the process of, of getting to know Tom and vice versa, getting to know Genden? You spent some time before filming together?

• 10:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  We should tell the story of where we met.

• 10:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, they said Tom will come there. I'm more earlier than arrived in Nepal to just to train or prepare for the movie.

• 10:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 10:44Speaker 04

  And then I went to Lugla to experience life. And that's also Sherpa. And then Jennifer told me Tom will come. But we have never met before, but from the story of Mr. Edmund Hillary and Tenzin, and really know where all about their relationship or something. And then I walked from, from Lugla or from Kumjung to Lugla, meet Tom. It's mean is like the air, uh, air, airport. So, yeah, like Tenzin Hillary Airport.

• 11:19Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 11:19Speaker 04

  The name is that. And that's very meaningful for me.

• 11:22Josh Horowitz?

  Of course.

• 11:23Speaker 04

  And then I went there and in waiting, they come out of the airport. And when I see him, just, uh, just like we are very familiar before, I just give hug each other. And then he also like that hug me. And then we talk and talk and talk and all the way to maybe almost two days to.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Four days, I think.

• 11:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, four, four days to Kumjung.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, and to Tengbochi.

• 11:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, Tengbochi. And all this experience, we have very good time. And all the way we practice our dialogue. We discuss about our character, the relationship with us. And we discuss about where, how we should connect our spirit together, uh, develop our friendship or everything. So that's a really good experience for me.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  It was amazing.

• 12:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:12Josh Horowitz?

  How, how, how familiar were you with, with Tom's work? Have you, have you seen a lot of the Marvel work, the non Marvel work of Tom?

• 12:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, of course. I watched many Tom's film before. Of course, Tom have many fans in China. And in China, we call them Doosin. Doosin is, yeah, it's a new name for you in China.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm aware of the name. I'm aware.

• 12:36Speaker 04

  So you know that.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  No, it'd be Shanghai, Beijing. Yeah.

• 12:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, so.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  So I hold it very dear. It's, it's a huge honor to have a nickname in China.

• 12:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. So I'm also watch the most of his movie.

• 12:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  You're very kind.

• 12:51Speaker 04

  Of that, yeah.

• 12:52Josh Horowitz?

  Can, can we talk a little bit about, I mean, the physical challenges of this? As you say, you're, you're, you're on mountains, you're in crevices, like you, clearly that you're doing as much of this for real as possible.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  A hundred percent for real.

• 13:06Josh Horowitz?

  Did you feel in danger at any point? I mean, no.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  I tell you why. Well, here's the thing. We, we were surrounded by the, the experts. We were surrounded by, to go back to this, it was extraordinary, unprecedented, unrepeatable, unforgettable moment. I flew from London to Kathmandu. And then within, I think within 15 hours, I was in a helicopter from Kathmandu to Lukla. So Lukla is where you land if you want to trek to base camp. It's where they got to when, uh, in 1953, they would have walked from Kathmandu. And there's now a, a strip of runway inside the mountain. It's, it's quite the landing, um, in a fixed wing plane or helicopter.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  The airport was built by, by Tenzing and Hillary, um, in the sixties in order to bring in supplies to build schools and to help the Sherpa community and, and improve their living conditions and their facilities. And it's called the Tenzing Hillary Airport. And there's a huge statue of both of them. Yeah. And I've been in Nepal for, for 24 hours and suddenly, and it was just the two of us with two Sherpas, um, called Purbatashi.

• 14:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Uh, and Dr. Nemo. Uh, both of them are from the Kumbu Valley. Purbatashi has summited Everest 21 times.

• 14:26Speaker 04

  No, no, 33.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  33?

• 14:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, 33. The last one, he said, his mother very worried about him to climb the mountain.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:35Speaker 04

  And the last one is, he was on the middle of the way up the Mount Everest. And then his mother was passed. And after that, he stopped to climb the mountain. It's alleged.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  And Purbatashi is, is, features very prominently in Jen's documentary Sherpa.

• 14:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Um, and has dedicated his life to, to the mountain and helping people get to the top and get back down again safely. So you had Purbatashi as your guide in Sherpa culture, in their ways of life, in their, in their techniques, their climbing techniques, but also their spiritual, their spirituality and everything. And we had Dr. Nemo, who was born in Kumjung, uh, which is on the way to base camp. And every, as I say, every tracker goes through Kumjung. And, uh, Dr. Nemo was educated at the age of six at a school called the Hillary School, which Hillary built. And Dr. Nemo is now my age. And he's a high altitude doctor who's worked in the UK for the NHS.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  He's worked in the United States. He's worked in China. And he's a specialist at high altitude medicine. Both of them gifted. And it was just the four of us for four days, walking through the same terrain, across the same, you know, um, wrought iron.

• 15:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Uh, um, high altitude bridges, the same pine forests, the same tea houses, walking with the donkeys and the mules. And, and, and the silences that we shared and also the conversations we shared. And suddenly the sky on the third or fourth day starts to be filled with what seem like gods.

• 16:14Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Enormous mountains, the biggest mountains in the world, 8,000 meter plus peaks. And one of them is Everest. And you see it for the first time.

• 16:23Josh Horowitz?

  A gentle reminder of what you're doing.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  I know. And, and we were so, we had so many conversations about, it was such a gift from Jen to us to have that time away from any kind of official pre-production, away from the cameras, just to get to know each other, to talk about the story we were going to share, the responsibility we both felt to inhabit the lives of these extraordinary men who changed the idea of what's possible. They both became the most famous men alive, um, after their summit. But they were very humble and very grounded people.

• 17:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  But as I said to you, sorry to go back to your question, we were completely surrounded by experts. We had a, um, a mountain safety, uh, expert called Guy Cotter, who himself has summited Everest six times. Um, a New Zealander, the son of Ed Cotter, who was one of Edmund Hillary's best friends. And they cut their teeth a, a, as climbers in the late 40s, um, with George Lowe and Earl Rutherford. So, and we had Barry Blanter, all these, all these people who love mountaineering, who've dedicated their life to the mountains, heard about the film and wanted to help us. We were the only people almost who had never done it before.

• 17:43Josh Horowitz?

  Would either of you at this point now, have you like, would you want to scale Everest, like for real, like do it for real?

• 17:49Speaker 01

  I worry for my fingertips.

• 17:52Josh Horowitz?

  I worry, actors need their fingertips. That's important.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  I just, I, it's, it's interesting. Also Everest itself is so busy. And, and you know, we know there's so many people up there. And there's a wider conversation happening about how busy should the mountain be? And, and that you need us, that it should be a requirement that there's a certain level of expertise to even attempt it. Because mountains, like the ocean, can, can render great serenity, but they have so much power that if you don't know what you're doing, um, they can, they can be very dangerous places.

• 18:34Josh Horowitz?

  Remind you of the power of nature.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Power of nature.

• 18:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's different. When you front, stand front of the snow mountain and the peak mountain, you feel you are so tiny. Humidity is so tiny front of the nature.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  But we saw it. That was before we started filming, we saw Everest together. We got to, we hiked, it took about four or five days to Tengbochi, where there's still an old monastery. And it's almost the last building.

• 19:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  That you've, for any tracker or any hiker sees before they get to the mountain. And then we didn't have time to go all the way because we had to get back. But there was a helicopter to take us back to Lukla. And before going back, we just went through the valley, over base camp, and we clapped eyes on, on Everest. And looked up through the icefall, the Kumbu Icefall, the Western Kumbu, the South Summit, the neighboring faces of Lotzi and Nupsi. And what was extraordinary was my first sight of Everest was with you. And we looked at it together. We both saw Mount Everest for the first time. But our viewpoint also was exactly the same as Hillary's first viewpoint.

• 19:40Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  He had been on a reconnaissance expedition in 1951 with this great romantic climber called Eric Shipton. Uh, because Nepal had opened its borders to Western exploration in the late 40s. And they went up a peak that's opposite Everest called Pamori. And suddenly they looked down and they saw this route, a new route that was never available to Mallory or any of those climbers that was possible through the icefall. And I had exactly the same view of Everest for the first time. It gave me chills. It still gives me chills.

• 20:11Josh Horowitz?

  Knowing that, like knowing that he was there and saw it.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  He was there 70 years ago, looking exactly at this angle and, and then being selected, you know, because they were, it's worth saying as well, Tenzing.

• 20:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  Tenzing in 1953 on the British expedition, because the, the, um, Nepal had, every year they gave different permits to different nations to have a go, to have an, make an attempt. So the previous year, the permit had been given to the Swiss.

• 20:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  With a great climber called Raymond Lombard. And Tenzing had been with Lombard. And they were only something like, how many? There were eight, 800 feet from the summit or 800 meters. They were, they got so close. So by the time you get to the spring of 1953, Tenzing already has the distinguished honor of having been the highest.

• 21:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, so.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  Ever. So he's already, he's already broken a world record and he's about to break another one.

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• 22:37Josh Horowitz?

  It's remarkable because also, as I understand it, like, both families were involved to a degree in this.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Very deeply.

• 22:43Josh Horowitz?

  In honoring the story. I mean, for you, what was important for you to convey about Tenzin's contributions, his spirit? What do you hope folks come away with seeing the film about this man?

• 22:58Speaker 04

  From Tenzin's story or Tenzin's character, I found as Tenzin and mid-hellery also, they are very humble and low profile. And, you know, in their mind, just thinking about, we are humanity, we want to help each other, forgive each other, and respect each other. So become peace community.

• 23:23Speaker 04

  So that's a really strong spirits warning like this to me. Because they don't want to say, you are from this country, you are, I'm from this country. There's never think sort of these things. I found that's from their story and from their book. They said, we are all from different countries, different place, but we are humanity.

• 23:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 23:48Speaker 04

  And we just doing one thing, just to climb the mountain, not others. So their mind is very pure and kind and compassion to all other people. Tenzin always thinking about how it can make the other people happy or comfortable. So this is very great, great character of Tenzin's. And he's, yeah, he's always doing, so he said, sometimes he's really hard because the Sherpa team think he just depends on the mountaineers.

• 24:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 24:25Speaker 04

  The other people. And the Europe people thought, ah, you are.

• 24:30Josh Horowitz?

  Right. He's caught between both worlds, yeah.

• 24:33Speaker 04

  And Tenzin really hard between them. He always want to think so many why to manage the problems. And, yeah, he told about like this. I think it's really hard, but he's done very good job.

• 24:47Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, there's, you kind of alluded to this, especially in these times, it's really, it's beautiful to see a story about two men, seemingly very pure of heart, who were good, just good men, good people, trying to accomplish something and knowing that they can't do it alone, that they need a partnership, a brotherhood.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Every, every climber knows that you sum it as a pair.

• 25:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  And you share the risks, you share the challenges, you share the success. Nothing else matters.

• 25:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  And I want you to tell everybody about your connection to Norbu, Tenzin.

• 25:25Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, that's, that's special. Because before I started our work film, the movie, and I really pushed to myself, forget myself and join to Tenzin's character. And I watched all the documentary about Tenzin and written many books about Tenzin. And even I just turn off my phone and I deleted all my just amusement app.

• 25:54Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 25:55Speaker 04

  I don't have anything.

• 25:56Josh Horowitz?

  Focus.

• 25:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, just 100% focused on the script and feeling that. And after for a while, I'm really feel, yeah, I'm Tenzin like this. And well, the first time I met them, they're Norbu or they are, I don't know why, I have a very special feeling that they are my family, just like I am the soul of Tenzin. And looking to them, just between us have just a glasses, a glass. Just looks I'm younger than them, but back of the glass, I'm looking at my sons. I have something like this feeling and I'm gonna cry, but of course I stopped.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  I've got goosebumps.

• 26:40Speaker 04

  I don't want to know.

• 26:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's very special for me.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:46Speaker 04

  And also, when I was Kum Jung, I want to speak the Sherpa language. And I'm living in Pubu's home.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:56Speaker 04

  And I study my dialogue. And every day I speak to them, Pubu and Pubu's wife, Pubu's daughter. And sometimes I go out and go to the village and I will speak my dialogue to every people I met there. And sometimes I will speak my dialogue to the yaks, sheep, and horses.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  I saw it, I saw it. It was so sweet.

• 27:15Josh Horowitz?

  Just practice, you gotta practice.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  You gotta run your lines, gotta run your lines with the yaks.

• 27:19Josh Horowitz?

  Every actor should have a yak.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  So they can just run the lines?

• 27:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Honestly, I saw it with my own eyes, the hours this man put in.

• 27:28Josh Horowitz?

  My, my screen partner's either really dedicated or crazy.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  It was amazing. And I remember also, I mean, it was four days of days and nights. And, you know, you learnt, you learnt new languages. You learnt English and Sherpa. And but you were also speaking Nepali. And you had to learn the Sherpa dialect.

• 27:51Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  And the way of life. And we went, there's a place called Namchi Bazaar. And all mountaineers who've been through the Kumbh will know what I'm talking about. It's sort of the last place you can buy supplies. It's high, but, and everybody gets to Namchi. And I remember when we left Namchi that morning, you put the bags you were carrying on your forehead, like you were a Sherpa porter.

• 28:17Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, you were true that.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  And, and we were going up the hill and he had the bags, so there's a leather strap which you put on your forehead.

• 28:23Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  And it's really steep. I mean, it was a lot, it was a high climb to Kum Jung. And I remember you start to see the yaks and, and we were running lines and doing bits of scenes and he would just do all his Sherpa dialogue to the yaks. And then Puputashi would say, no, no, no, it's a slightly different bell sound. And you go, sorry, sorry, you do it again.

• 28:43Speaker 04

  Always.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  But also there was this, the fact that we had this experience of doing it together was just, you know, and you were looking out for me because you've been in altitude for a while and we were going quite high. I remember we were staying overnight at a teahouse and I got up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Do you remember this?

• 29:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  It gets really cold up there, you sleep in your, you know, down jacket. I got up to go to the bathroom and I went back in and there was a knock on the wall and it was Gendan saying, Tom, are you okay? You, are you feeling okay? I'm like, I'm okay, I'm okay.

• 29:15Josh Horowitz?

  Hamsworth never did that.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Not in the middle of the night, never knocking on the wall just to check on me in case I had altitude sickness.

• 29:22Josh Horowitz?

  Here's the question, do you ever practice lines with your dog? Does Bobby?

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Always, always.

• 29:27Josh Horowitz?

  Seriously?

• 29:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Do I really? Not really, no. But I do, he will have heard them all.

• 29:32Josh Horowitz?

  Right, of course.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  Because I take my lines on dog walks, because I need to, I need to learn my lines on the move.

• 29:38Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  And so I'm like, okay, let's go out. And he starts wagging his tail to go for a walk, the ears prick up. And I'll have my lines recorded sometimes and I'll be doing them out aloud. He'll look back at me and go, forget it, he's running his lines. I'll go find some rabbits or whatever, you know.

• 29:53Josh Horowitz?

  This is the best way to get doomsday spoilers, is to follow you on a walk.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  Just talk to Bobby.

• 29:57Josh Horowitz?

  Or talk to Bobby.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Bobby, Bobby's got them all.

• 30:01Josh Horowitz?

  Can we talk briefly, we started by talking about Telluride. I don't know if you've run into folks here, I was just talking to Ken Brana at the brunch, which must be so wonderful for you to meet.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  It's so lovely to see him.

• 30:10Josh Horowitz?

  In this environment. Have you, so you've run into Ken, have you met anybody yet at the brunch, any actors?

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Last night, I introduced you to my old friend Rebecca Hall. So, at the dinner last night.

• 30:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  My friend from university Rebecca. She's a really amazing, extraordinary actor and artist. And she's the guest director of the festival. She's programmed some of the films. But she's, I've known her since we were 18.

• 30:38Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, you told her that yesterday.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  She's great, yeah. So you met Rebecca and you met Rami Malek?

• 30:43Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Rami? Jumbe, you wanted to ask him for a photo.

• 30:48Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, but.

• 30:49Josh Horowitz?

  Freddie Mercury himself?

• 30:50Speaker 04

  He's really busy in the net.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  He was busy.

• 30:54Speaker 04

  Maybe tomorrow.

• 30:55Josh Horowitz?

  After he sees the film, he's gonna come to you for an autograph.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 30:58Speaker 04

  And you should brush him off and say, you're busy.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  There's so much to talk about this. So can I briefly say, we talked about Norbu and I met Norbu too, who's one of Tenzin's sons and Jamling Tenzin, um, three years ago and sort of just wanted to hear their father's story from them. But I, um, was really fortunate and grateful for the experience of meeting Alexander Hilary. As soon as I landed in Kathmandu, he was actually, he's hugely responsible for the Himalayan Trust, which was what was set up by Edmund Hillary in his lifetime. And actually after the summit of 1953, Edmund Hillary dedicated his whole life to improving the lives of the Sherpas. And I think viewed

• 31:49Speaker 01

  the Kumbu Valley as his second home. Obviously, he lived in New Zealand still and had a home there, but spent a great, um, you know, a great many chapters of his life in the Kumbu, where he just wanted to give back, I think. And, um, as I say, he built schools and he built, um, medical facilities and helped build the airport. And he set up the thing called the Himalayan Trust, which is, which is still about trying to give back and, and serve the community. And he, Alexander, Edmund's grandson, happened to be in Kathmandu. So I met him on the evening that I landed. And it was so extraordinary to shake his hand

• 32:30Speaker 01

  and sit with him for an hour or two, in a way, and also reassure him that I was committed to this with total sincerity, that I was aware of the enormous privilege of playing his grandfather and, you know, was there anything he wanted me to know? And actually, that his response was just how much he loved this part of the world. And that actually towards the end of his life, the things he was most proud of were his connections to the people of those mountains. It wasn't necessarily the summit, although he loved climbing very deeply. And then I spoke to Peter, Edmund's son and Alexander's father.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  And Peter told me some amazing stories about his dad. And I got this sense of, of the, the spirit of mischief and playfulness and sense of humor that I got. You get from all the books. I watched, I read the books, I watched the documentaries. I read all the different accounts, John Hunt's account. John Hunt is played in our film by the great Willem Dafoe. George Lowe, who was his best friend, also a Kiwi, wrote a book called Conquest of Everest with a photo essay. And, but to hear it from his son, there was one story, he said they were, they were tracking together much later, um, when Peter was a,

• 33:52Speaker 01

  a grown man somewhere in India. And it was a very, very difficult, uh, the weather was extremely difficult. And the rain was coming down and the wind was building up and they were climbing this rock face. And there was gale force winds and they climbed, they scaled the rock face and found a plateau where they could pitch their tents. And they were struggling to get canvases were being blown away and things were falling off the mountain. Rain was horizontal. It was, it was the fine art of suffering, as all high altitude mountaineering is. And it was grim. And they finally got the tents up and they finally crawled in, you know, absolutely drenched and soaked to the skin and in complete silence. And

• 34:35Speaker 01

  they made a brew and they all sat down and settled in. And, and his dad, Ed Hillary was the first to say anything. And he said, he just piped up, you know, folks, some people wouldn't think this was much fun. And everybody laughed. And suddenly it was a great adventure. And that he had this gift of transforming adversity into, aren't we lucky? Aren't we lucky we get to do this? And I really think that's what I got.

• 35:04Josh Horowitz?

  You can translate to everything you do. That's, we've had that conversation about acting. That's what you do. Aren't we lucky?

• 35:09Speaker 01

  But I kept feeling that. And as you say, like, he was such a good man and Tenzin was such a good man. And we met, do you remember we met, it's also worth saying, because we've never talked about it, in, um, in Namch, we met, uh, Kanza Sherpa.

• 35:24Speaker 04

  Ah, of course.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  And Kanza, who's very sadly no longer with us. He died late last year. We met him in, and we, at his house. And he is the, he was then the last surviving member of the expedition. He was the youngest Sherpa. And we sat with him for an hour or two and just sat at his feet and listened to his stories.

• 35:47Speaker 04

  He told a many story to us, very helpful to us. And well, at the time, I'm not believe myself I can perform Tenzin well. And, and I said, do you think I can perform Tenzin well? I'm going to act Tenzin. And he said, okay, you don't worry about that. You can do that. Just you are just very looks like Tenzin right now. You are here.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  He turned to his children and said, he looks just like him.

• 36:14Josh Horowitz?

  Don't need a better endorsement than that.

• 36:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's give me many encouragement to, okay, maybe I can do that.

• 36:22Josh Horowitz?

  There were so many, it sounds like there were so many signs along the way, whether it's seeing Everest, meeting these people that were connected, part of it.

• 36:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, that's really, really good. And also one time we, you remember we, uh, went to the school, that's Ed Hillary's school.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Yes, we went to the Hillary's school.

• 36:37Speaker 04

  We watched our room, there is all the Ed Hillary's, some pen or something. And we watched a shorter video about Ed Hillary, remember that?

• 36:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:45Speaker 04

  And he said, uh, not humanity conquered the Mount Everest. The Mount Everest accepted humanity. I really love that speech.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  It was, it revealed something to us. Yeah.

• 36:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think so. Hillary really did many good things in the value of the Himalaya.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:04Speaker 04

  And even I thought, if there is heaven, maybe, uh, Ed Hillary is there. If he is not in the heaven, I think there is not existing.

• 37:17Josh Horowitz?

  If he didn't make the cut, then who would, who would, right?

• 37:20Speaker 04

  I really thought that because he did very good job to give back to the Himalaya value and the Sherpas. He was, he was also said that's all my fame or everything is come from Himalaya. I want to this give back to Himalaya. So he just built many school, hospital to the Sherpa people. So he's, in my mind, he's also like a god, like a Buddha, like this, really.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  But and also they, they loved, they loved the wilderness. And I think that was where their, their bond was formed, that they loved mountains. They loved the freedom of being folded into nature and actually forgetting that, I think they really loved that. And it was, it struck me that everything I learned about both of them is that they felt completely themselves when they were out in the elements.

• 38:20Josh Horowitz?

  And what a gift to find, again, a compatriot, a brother in arms out there, right?

• 38:24Speaker 01

  It was amazing.

• 38:26Speaker 05

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• 39:02Speaker 07

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• 39:46Speaker 07

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• 40:03Josh Horowitz?

  I'm gonna let you go because I'm taking up a lot of your time. Can I ask you two off topic things quickly?

• 40:07Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 40:09Josh Horowitz?

  Can I ask about the Mad Max thing? We corresponded about this recently.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:13Josh Horowitz?

  So, as you saw from my reaction when I was talking to Gal Gadot.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  It was a great reaction.

• 40:17Josh Horowitz?

  I did not know that my buddy Tom Hiddleston auditioned for Mad Max.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  I've actually nearly told you that many times, but then I've thought, well.

• 40:24Josh Horowitz?

  It's time. Can you tell me your perspective on what it was like to audition?

• 40:27Speaker 01

  It was an extraordinary day. It was a whole day. I remember we had been, well, initially, we'd been given speeches from iconic movies.

• 40:38Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Have you heard this bit?

• 40:39Josh Horowitz?

  I've heard that bit. What have you got?

• 40:41Speaker 01

  To pick. I did the speech from Network.

• 40:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  The Meltdown.

• 40:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, because actually, it was such a great piece of writing. I don't remember how I did it, but I remember just that was my speech. And then the next round was around, there were these pairings. There were a pairing of a man and a woman together. And it was, I remember it being a day. It probably wasn't a day. It was probably like five hours or six hours.

• 41:09Josh Horowitz?

  Still, that's unusual.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  With Gal, Gal Gadot, and we'd never met before. And it was, I felt like at the end of the day, like, we had played every single scene that was possible to play.

• 41:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  She was extraordinary. She was so available and so committed. And I remember there was this, I don't think anyone else has told this story, but there was a, we were asked by George Miller's acting coach.

• 41:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  Acting dramatologist.

• 41:43Josh Horowitz?

  Insert Michael Fassbender's look to the camera there. Yeah.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  And it was, I was given, she was given a line, she was given the line, "I love you," and I was given the line, "I'm sorry." And that was all you were allowed to say. So, and then we had to play the scene. I had to invent a scene out of nothing with those two lines.

• 42:04Josh Horowitz?

  Just going back and forth.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  And you could say your line as many times as you like.

• 42:07Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  And all she could say was, "I love you." All I could say was, "I'm sorry." And we went on a journey. That's all I would say. We went, it was a.

• 42:16Josh Horowitz?

  How long was that scene, you think?

• 42:18Speaker 01

  About 25 minutes.

• 42:19Josh Horowitz?

  25 minutes of just, "I love you," "I'm sorry."

• 42:20Speaker 01

  "I love you, I'm sorry." Yeah.

• 42:23Josh Horowitz?

  You thought your job on this was hard.

• 42:25Speaker 04

  25 minutes.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, here's the kicker. We finished, we'd, you know, we we'd wept and we had, you know, struggled and she'd left the room and come back and, you know, I'd wept and, and then the exercise was stopped. And George Miller's acting dramatologist said, "Okay, now Tom and Gal, switch lines." We go again. So I had, "I love you," and she had, "I'm sorry."

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean.

• 42:54Josh Horowitz?

  This is my new podcast, devoted to the Mad Max Fury Road auditions. I could live on these stories for the entire time.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  What's interesting, having, having seen now the discourse, there's obviously a great, there's an extended discourse.

• 43:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  Michael Fassbender's story.

• 43:08Josh Horowitz?

  Cap Dunning's.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  Cap Dunning's. I mean, I don't think anyone can top Tom Hardy.

• 43:12Josh Horowitz?

  At Mom's House.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  At Mom's House, until 11 o'clock at night, just shooting the breeze. But yeah, it sounds like every audition was slightly different. But I do remember feeling that was a workout. That was an acting workout.

• 43:25Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. And last thing, nothing you can tell me, obviously, about Doomsday, but we'll hopefully be talking more about that. And Much Ado in New York, I can't wait. It strikes me that you and Patrick Stewart have both died three times.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Is that right?

• 43:38Josh Horowitz?

  Throughout the Marvel films. Is somebody gonna come out ahead? Do you think you or Patrick is gonna take the mantle of most deaths on screen?

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Is it three?

• 43:48Josh Horowitz?

  Three each for you.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  Is that the count?

• 43:49Josh Horowitz?

  You've had three, I believe.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Hang on. Are you counting the end of Thor one?

• 43:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  That's a death?

• 43:55Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, now I am, now, wait.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Does, letting go of, letting go of the spear.

• 44:00Josh Horowitz?

  Let's go with.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  I could have done it if I had.

• 44:01Josh Horowitz?

  Infinity War is one. We know that.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  Infinity War is one, that's a death.

• 44:04Josh Horowitz?

  That's a death.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Dark World is two.

• 44:06Josh Horowitz?

  That's definitely two. Yeah, I guess that's my third, then.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Thor is three?

• 44:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Is it not? You've not counted?

• 44:12Speaker 01

  No, I counted.

• 44:12Josh Horowitz?

  You're Loki, okay.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I counted. So that's three. I'm not as well-versed in the Patrick Stewart lore.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  I, look, if I keep going down the path of the end of this sentence, I will find myself revealing things that, it depends what you, you know.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  I'm not, I'm gonna stop. I have to stop.

• 44:38Josh Horowitz?

  Are you happy that, Loki seems integral to the film. Yes, would you say that?

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:43Josh Horowitz?

  That's a badge of honor? Among 50 characters to feel that you're a major?

• 44:47Speaker 01

  Certainly, certainly. Come on, I'm holding the timelines together.

• 44:50Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, I respect it. I'm just saying, don't. All right, I'll let you go on that.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  You know, it's a, we live in a multiverse now, I think. And Loki is the god of stories. So.

• 45:05Josh Horowitz?

  There it is.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Do you remember, is it, do you remember we were in a monastery in Lower Mustang? This is an extraordinary moment. It was you and me and Willem. And so there's actually just north, just northeast of the Kumbu Valley. Because the Kumbu is still an extraordinary destination, and everybody should go, by the way. It's a completely life-changing thing to do, to take, just to take your best friend, or your partner, or your children, or your, you know, dear friends, and do the trek to base camp. It's a pilgrimage that I recommend with every fiber of my being. But it's still busy. It's busy with, it's busy with the modern world. You know, at Namch, you can go to Yak Buck

• 45:51Speaker 01

  and get a Yak Buck coffee.

• 45:53Josh Horowitz?

  Sounds great.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  It's my favorite mug at home.

• 45:55Josh Horowitz?

  Better than Starbucks?

• 45:57Speaker 01

  Look, I don't want to get into a whole, like.

• 45:59Speaker 04

  Sorry, be smoking.

• 46:01Josh Horowitz?

  Even in the cap.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  I didn't mean that. Sorry, sorry. I have the cup. I drink, my morning coffee in the morning at home is out of my Yak Buck. I love that cup so much.

• 46:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  Anyway, we were then, so we couldn't, there were certain things we couldn't do in the Kumbu Valley, because it has all of the, you know, it comes with the 21st century it's got.

• 46:21Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  And people are there, and they should be there. So we couldn't film there with all of our period costumes and our period details. So we actually went further east to a place called Lower Mustang and Jomsom, which is very remote, near the border with China. And I loved it there because it was so quiet. We did lots of climbing, do you remember? We went up.

• 46:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  But we were in, we had been for a day or two, a real active monastery with, you know, rich houses, monks who'd been there for many, many years, in Jomsom became the location for where we have our puja.

• 47:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Where they stop, where the expedition stops and asks for a blessing.

• 47:07Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  From the Lama, right?

• 47:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  And we had, all the Western climbers participated in this extraordinary religious ceremony. Long story short, we're in this monastery, and the monks have generously given us this location for a day. And they're very curious, because we have all the accoutrements.

• 47:28Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Filmmaking and cameras and microphones, and we do things again and again and again and retake. And at the end of the day, we go onto the rooftop and we take some stills photographs. Do you remember?

• 47:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  And three of the most quiet, self-effacing monks approach us. And one of the monks said, "Excuse me, Mr. Loki, Mr. Green Goblin, may we have a photograph?"

• 47:59Josh Horowitz?

  The power.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  And Willem and I looked at each other, and it was like, of course you can. And yeah, so they had, there are these photographs of.

• 48:06Josh Horowitz?

  You were the monks.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, Loki and the Green Goblin, just up in, in the high, the high hills of, up at Lower Mustang.

• 48:15Josh Horowitz?

  Great storytelling, transcends, goes everywhere.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 48:17Josh Horowitz?

  There it is.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  But also, it was the respect of Mr., the Mr. Loki, Mr. Green Goblin.

• 48:24Josh Horowitz?

  Mr. Goblin.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  May we have a photo?

• 48:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:27Josh Horowitz?

  That's the way to.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  We didn't want you to feel excluded from that. I think you're in the photo, too.

• 48:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:32Josh Horowitz?

  We'll get him in the MCU. Don't worry.

• 48:34Speaker 04

  I helped you take photo. I am the photographer once in a time. You are the main actor in the photo.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 48:39Josh Horowitz?

  You're tensing. We don't do this without this guy.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But it was an amazing, here we are. We're in one of the most remote places I've ever been, which is a, you know, a remote Buddhist monastery in the Himalayas, in the foothills. And.

• 48:56Josh Horowitz?

  Reminded.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  Mr. Loki and Mr. Green Goblin.

• 48:59Josh Horowitz?

  Well, look, film at its best should feel like an adventure for you guys and for an audience, and this seems to satisfy both. I'm so thrilled that, this is like the beginning, this is like the first interviews you've really given.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  We've never talked about it.

• 49:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So I appreciate you guys. It's great to meet you again. And congratulations. I mean, this is a high bar to achieve and a really important thing to honor, and you did an amazing job.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  Can I say, you just should have seen how hard this guy worked. There's a scene in the film where.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  And I could honestly, you know, I could go on all day, but the most difficult, poor Batashi and all the, all the great summoners of Everest will tell you the most dangerous part of Everest is not the summit. It's the Kumbu Icefall and the Kumbu Icefall is just after base camp. And an icefall is exactly what it says on the tin. It's a waterfall that's frozen, which means it's moving all the time. And the Sherpas would go up ahead of the climbers and try to basically plot a route through the icefall. Crevasses everywhere, seracs that are as, as high as high rise buildings. And if they fall on top of you, that's it.

• 50:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  It's Russian roulette. You do not know when the waterfall is going to change.

• 50:14Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  And there's a moment in the story where they're trying to, to plot a route through the icefall. And they come across a crevasse which seems completely impassable. It's too deep and it's too wide. And the expedition can't get around, they can't get through, they can't, they can't get across it, they have to go back and find another way. So everybody retreats to base camp, beds down for the night. And the next morning, Hillary gets up thinking, I'm just going to go and check it out and see if I can find a way. And on the way there, he hears a strange unnatural sound of metal against metal. And he realized Tenzing has got up an hour before him and he's already down there. He hasn't fallen down there.

• 50:59Speaker 01

  He's climbed down the crevasse, he's climbed into the crevasse. Um, and then traversed the base of it and then has climbed up it. And the way you do that in high altitude mountaineering is you, because it's a sheer wall of ice, you have to, as the mountaineers would tell you, you cut steps. So you cut with your ice axe.

• 51:21Josh Horowitz?

  Cutting your own path.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  Your own ladder. You, each foothold and handhold becomes the ladder that you build. And most mountaineers and Hillary would certainly say it's a routine mountaineering issue, but it, it took you, it took, and it would have taken half an hour. And when we did it for real, um, the extraordinary stunt department led by Augie Davis put, um, Gendan at the bottom of the crevasse and then Gendan climbed out of it. There was no, let's just cut some steps for you.

• 51:56Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  And the camera was on a jib. Uh, there were a couple of cameras, uh, shooting at the same time. And Jen just said, okay, Gendan, climb.

• 52:05Josh Horowitz?

  Do what Tenzing did.

• 52:06Speaker 04

  Real climb.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  And he, and we all watched him climb out of a crevasse.

• 52:10Speaker 04

  How does that climb three or four times?

• 52:12Josh Horowitz?

  You've earned a romantic comedy. You've earned a very nice, easy movie next. Do we do this again? You did it.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  He's incredibly tough.

• 52:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's, that's really tired, you know, with the, I, I tried it three times, climbed it three or four times. And of that, I'm really exhausted. I'm just lying on the edge of the crevasse.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  And remember the, there's the other moment where, and this really happened and, and Hillary writes about it, where they were, they were high up on the, on the Western Coombe or the Lotsi Face, which is, which is the sort of, it's the most exhausting part of climbing Everest. And you just have to cut steps so that everyone can get supplies because it's a pyramid of effort. You're, you're, you have to carry the loads of your food and your oxygen cylinders and your tents. And so you're climbing high and then sleeping low and then getting up your, um, your sugar and your coffee and your oxygen and your cheese and your dried apricots and tin peaches and your sardines, you climb down, go back up again. It's, it is such painstaking work.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  But there was a moment where Tenzing and Hillary had decided they recognizing each other and the kind of mutual talent. They were very strong, they were very determined, they worked very fast, they were probably the fittest, uh, of the group. And they had a bit like scuba diving. You, you do it as a pair and they had paired up and they were, they were out there cutting steps on the Lotsi Face. And they were, and they were quite confident, they were running back down at the end of the day. And Hillary writes about jumping across this very narrow crevasse and, um, you know, and he was feeling the wind in his sails and looking forward to getting home for, for, for dinner and a cup of tea. And the, the other side of the ledge gave way under his feet and he was falling.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  And, um, he said, Tenzing saved his life because he did what's called a self arrest. You jam the ice axe into the snow, it could be roped together, wrap the rope around the ice axe and then it locks. Um, but Hillary is now suspended in a crevasse, basically being held by Tenzing's weight and the ice axe. And then Hillary has to climb out. Um, but I remember when we did it, they gave you my full weight.

• 54:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  I, I was in the crevasse for real and they, and.

• 54:35Josh Horowitz?

  This is a tall man.

• 54:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's tall man, it's really heavy.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  And essentially Gendan has to then pull me out of the crevasse as I'm cutting steps and trying to take some of the weight.

• 54:44Speaker 04

  That's, that's a really, really, really that pushness. It's you don't want to perform that, it's you're really doing that thing.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  Best days. Honestly, best days.

• 54:54Josh Horowitz?

  I'm glad I got to enjoy it in my comfy seats in the theater. I enjoyed it the best possible.

• 54:59Speaker 01

  The whole thing was unprecedented and unrepeatable. Don't you think?

• 55:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  Unforgettable. I've never made a film like this. I may never make another one like this again.

• 55:08Speaker 04

  Every part of this is really, yeah, removable, remember.

• 55:12Josh Horowitz?

  It's, it's all on the screen. You should feel, both of you should feel very proud of it.

• 55:16Speaker 01

  Thank you, Josh.

• 55:16Josh Horowitz?

  We're hours away from the big premiere. Enjoy the moment. This is a special one. Congratulations. Great to meet you, Gendan.

• 55:23Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 55:24Josh Horowitz?

  Tom, I don't know where we're going next, but we'll find another city, another festival. The act continues.

• 55:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Toronto?

• 55:30Josh Horowitz?

  Let's do it.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  I'll see you in Toronto.

• 55:32Josh Horowitz?

  All right. Good to see you guys.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 55:34Josh Horowitz?

  Appreciate you.

• 55:37Speaker 00

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 55:54Speaker 05

  For eight years, we've been asking the same question over and over again. How did this happen? My name's Mandy. And I'm Melissa and we're the hosts of Moms and Mysteries, the true crime podcast with over 55 million downloads. We're two Florida moms who are obsessed with mysteries. Each week we do deep dives into fascinating true crime stories. We cover everything from infamous cases like Casey Anthony to the bizarre and complex crimes right here in our home state, like the shocking murder of FSU professor Dan Markell. We bring you the facts, but with warmth and width you'd only get from two friends who have been hooked on mysteries since childhood. Join us for new episodes of Moms and Mysteries every Tuesday and Thursday. Listen to Moms and Mysteries on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.