Stephen Root

The delightful Stephen Root is here! Stephen joins Josh to talk about his Emmy-nominated turn in WIDOW’S BAY, embracing the character actor label, being recognized for his voiceover work in KING OF THE HILL, his iconic role in OFFICE SPACE, and more! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I was on the plane last night and one of the flight attendants came over and said, "I recognize your voice. Are you an actor?" And to be recognized for your voice was a big, big deal. I mean, that's great that she recognized that from King of the Hill, of course, you know, and she knew I was an actor and did other stuff, but that's what she liked. So being stopped for those kind of genuine pleasure people is fantastic.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 0:38Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Today on the show, it is a first time guest, the great Stephen Root is here. He is Emmy nominated for his role in Widows Bay, but we are talking about his entire career. Barry, King of the Hill, Office Space, Dodgeball, and more with one and only Stephen Root. Thanks, guys, as always, for joining me on the podcast. Remember to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already on YouTube, on Spotify, however you want to do it, it's fine by me. Remember to also check out our Patreon if you want early access to every single episode of Happy Sad Confused and bonus materials and access to our live events and so much more, patreon.com/happysadconfused. Today on the show, as I mentioned, he is one of

• 1:22Josh Horowitz?

  the quintessential character actors for the last 30-plus years. You know him, you love him, I certainly do. Stephen Root, specialty might be comedy, but he can do Shakespeare, he can do drama, he can kind of do it all, and he kind of does it all in his latest series, Widows Bay, the Apple TV show, which I have been obsessed with, I'm sure you're obsessed with, if you're a person of good taste, and if you're watching or listening to this, you are a person of good taste. He, of course, plays Wick on that show, kind of adversary slash friend collaborator with Matthew Rees's mayor on the show. The show itself has been nominated for a ton of Emmy awards, including Stephen for his performance in this one. It is well deserved. I love this show. It is such a great blend of drama, of comedy, of

• 2:05Josh Horowitz?

  horror, all the good things. He was nominated a few years back for his role in Barry. It's great to see someone like Stephen, who has put in the time and the work with collaborators like Mike Judge and the Coen Brothers, get his laurels after all these years. He's put in the work, he's put in the time, and now he's reaping the rewards, and we are too by having him on this podcast. So I'm thrilled he came by. He's a great guy, a great conversation. I know you guys are gonna dig this. Here is me and the one and only Stephen Root. Hot dog. We're doing this, Stephen.

• 2:39Speaker 00

  Yay.

• 2:39Josh Horowitz?

  You ready for this?

• 2:40Speaker 00

  I'm ready.

• 2:41Josh Horowitz?

  The long, strange trip of Stephen Root has led here to Happy Sad Confused. I don't know if you've won the prize or lost the prize, but you're here.

• 2:48Speaker 00

  I have certainly won the prize. It's great. I have to tell you one thing right away, because my manager brought this up in an email, and he said, "Make sure you tell Josh how wonderful he was as a narrator at Comic-Con for Widows Bay. You did an amazing job."

• 3:09Josh Horowitz?

  Appreciate that.

• 3:10Speaker 00

  And we were, we were all like, so easy peasy, fun, but you impressed my representation with no one else.

• 3:19Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, I'll take it. I'll take it. I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, Comic-Con, as you know, you've been probably going for many years for King of the Hill and other things.

• 3:25Speaker 00

  King of the Hill and different stuff, yeah.

• 3:27Josh Horowitz?

  It's a bizarre circumstance to be on that stage.

• 3:29Speaker 00

  It is, and that's a big hall. That's 6,500, I think, maybe?

• 3:33Josh Horowitz?

  And we had giant Matthew Rees's disembodied head on a screen.

• 3:36Speaker 00

  Yes, that's always frightening.

• 3:39Josh Horowitz?

  Always frightening. But that's how he does it, right? He doesn't actually come to the table reads, he just always just like zooms in.

• 3:44Speaker 00

  He's a very busy man.

• 3:47Josh Horowitz?

  He is. He's in demand, as he should be.

• 3:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, it's great. I'm looking forward to his, he did a show, not in Welsh, but for Richard Burton. He did a one-man Richard Burton that I think is coming to New York. I'm hoping that will.

• 4:06Josh Horowitz?

  He's, I've heard you say this, and I totally agree, maybe the funniest man on the planet.

• 4:10Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. Who knew? I mean, he was always funny when we were doing Perry Mason.

• 4:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  But that's, it's not a comedy.

• 4:19Josh Horowitz?

  No, it was not.

• 4:21Speaker 00

  Every, every, every time we were offstage, he was, he's just really smart.

• 4:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  He's really smart and really joyful person, which is an amazing number one to have.

• 4:34Josh Horowitz?

  I was gonna say, important to have that kind of vibe emanating off the number one. That's probably something you, you learned early on, is like, it all kind of trickles down.

• 4:40Speaker 00

  It all comes from the top, and then we, and we have Hero, and we have Katie, and we have Matthew.

• 4:45Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, did Hero direct some of Barry now that I think you're on it?

• 4:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, he directed about five of them.

• 4:50Josh Horowitz?

  So he was your good luck charm. Stick with that guy.

• 4:53Speaker 00

  Believe me, that was one of the draws for this show, was that Hero was gonna direct and executive produce, because he's just, he's the calming force in the universe. Says, "Well, we're gonna do this, I think. What do you think?"

• 5:12Josh Horowitz?

  This is a good vibe.

• 5:15Speaker 00

  And it's, it's a wonderful vibe. He lets you do your gut work, because, I mean, they've, they've cast you. They know what you could do. He knows what you could do, and, and he'll take your gut read and mush it around a little bit, but it's, it's mostly he lets you do the work.

• 5:35Josh Horowitz?

  So, look, the reason you're here, and I'm so happy it's given us an occasion to dive deep into your career, because I'm a longtime admirer, but Widows Bay, as I said on that panel, is such an unexpected, in the best possible way, surprise, in that it's been critically beloved, it's obviously widely watched, it's already greenlit for the second season, and it's, it could have so not worked. Like, it's such a hard tone to achieve.

• 5:59Speaker 00

  Easy, easy if you weren't, if the tone wasn't right, because everything is about tone in this show.

• 6:04Josh Horowitz?

  So, we talk about tone a lot. I talk about tone a ton with actors. It's kind of a hard thing to kind of pin down. Like, when you're on a set, is it Hero, is it Katie Dipold? Like, how, when do you kind of find it right?

• 6:17Speaker 00

  Yes, and yes.

• 6:18Josh Horowitz?

  Like, did you feel like, on this one in particular, like, everybody was in the same sandbox? Everybody was making the same show?

• 6:24Speaker 00

  Because Alison Jones cast it perfectly.

• 6:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:27Speaker 00

  You know, that's, that's one of the big reasons, but everybody was immediately on the same page when we did the table read, which was with everybody. And it was really the only script we'd read, only one I'd read, because I came in a little late, I think. But the tone of the show was set immediately that day that we did the first table read. And it was set by Matthew and by Hero, because Katie had already written this great script. But it, the main thing that, that I think is important for Matthew, being number one, is to keep the correct tone, to keep everybody on it.

• 7:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:09Speaker 00

  And he does, along with Hero, of course, the director is great, but it was up to Matthew to sustain it.

• 7:16Josh Horowitz?

  And how would you describe it? I mean, do you need to intellectualize it for yourself of like, what I'm, what I'm going for, or is it more something that's hard to kind of put into words, like what you're trying to achieve?

• 7:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. Honesty. Honesty and reality within a strange situation, because that's where the comedy comes from.

• 7:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  Comes from character. It doesn't come from Katie writing jokes and sticking them in there. But if you play it honestly, or real, as, as Matthew has said many times, you can't go wrong.

• 7:50Josh Horowitz?

  Right. It's real people in slightly heightened bizarre circumstances.

• 7:53Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 7:54Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, there's definitely like, it's not an exact comp, but like, there's a little bit of the Twin Peaks kind of vibe.

• 7:58Speaker 00

  Oh, sure. It's, it's still, as you say, I mean, the office comedy of Parks and Recs comes through.

• 8:07Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 8:08Speaker 00

  The Twilight Zone comes through.

• 8:09Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 8:10Speaker 00

  And character drama comes through.

• 8:13Josh Horowitz?

  So how was this, you say you came on relatively late. How much of Wick was on the page? How much did you know going in, in terms of the arc of the season?

• 8:21Speaker 00

  Hmm. In terms of the end of the season, no, we didn't know. I had only read the first script, and Katie surprised me when we were doing the Comic-Con show, said, "No, there was no Wick in this, this first script." And I think I called her an asshole.

• 8:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  And then, but I love her so much. But yeah, no, we didn't really have an ending that was in sight to us, and I'm glad we didn't, because you never want to play the end of the play, you know? You don't want to know too much. Yeah, you have to, you have to go, you have to go through the steps to get there. So I was okay with not knowing not much, other than, because we were block shooting the first maybe three episodes, you know?

• 9:11Josh Horowitz?

  Right. And in terms of like, it's, it's a funny show, because it kind of trades on like, classic archetypes of characters.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 9:17Josh Horowitz?

  In some ways, Wick is kind of like, "Oh, we've seen this guy. We know this guy. This is the town drunk. This is Quint in Jaws."

• 9:24Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 9:25Josh Horowitz?

  Et cetera. So are you playing off of that in your mind? You can't, I assume you can't run away from that exactly. You have to embrace that to a degree?

• 9:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, you do. The absurdity of, of the situation, but I think I, I have to play it with some sort of humanity, because I rarely, I don't think, play characters that have no redeeming qualities. And it's, it's, it was so much easier to do that in this character, for some reason. I guess because we knew a little bit of the backstory, even from the first episode, when I said, you know, "I've known this, this, this mayor since he was a teenager."

• 10:03Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 10:04Speaker 00

  So there was some sort of a backstory right away.

• 10:13Speaker 03

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• 12:00Josh Horowitz?

  I've been in a lot of different sorts of projects, but maybe none that have kind of like had this kind of scrutiny, meaning like probably Reddit boards and fan theories and kind of like

• 12:10Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:10Josh Horowitz?

  suppositions and ideas.

• 12:12Speaker 00

  It's a Who Killed JR?

• 12:14Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly.

• 12:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So have you dived into that at all? Are you aware at all of like the fan theories out there, the?

• 12:21Speaker 00

  I get told, told them by my wife.

• 12:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:24Speaker 00

  And by her friends that send them to her. But no, I don't delve into them myself, but I think a lot of them are really interesting.

• 12:32Josh Horowitz?

  Does anything?

• 12:32Speaker 00

  I don't think they have anything to do with the show.

• 12:35Josh Horowitz?

  It's a whole different part of the story.

• 12:37Speaker 00

  But I applaud that they're thinking about it so hard and that they could see a lot of the little clues that come up in the first viewing of the show. I think a lot of people have seen the show two and three times because they can go back to the beginning and say, oh, look at that thing on the wall. That was the thing that was the thing with the thing.

• 12:58Josh Horowitz?

  The thing with the thing. So I mentioned, look, season two, we're gonna get one. That's amazing.

• 13:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:05Josh Horowitz?

  Are you the type of actor that like, you've been in some ongoing series, obviously? Like, do you say stuff to Katie about what you'd like to see, or do you put yourself in the hands of Katie and her?

• 13:14Speaker 00

  Well, I've told Katie that I really want to see more backstory because you already care about these characters now. And I think if you have even deeper backstories about them in season two, whether that's through a flashback or through exposition, however she wants to do it, I think it's, it's gonna mean a lot to people who, who have embraced these characters and want to know more about them.

• 13:38Josh Horowitz?

  The, the meaningfulness of this for you at this stage in your career. Look, you had a great success a few years back with Barry.

• 13:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I loved that show.

• 13:46Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Loved Bill, loved Hero, loved everybody on it.

• 13:49Josh Horowitz?

  So that resulted in your long overdue first Emmy nomination.

• 13:53Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 13:53Josh Horowitz?

  You've gotten your second for this one. Are those both meaningful moments? Look, you've, you've been a jobbing actor, like a very successful actor for decades.

• 14:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've been a journeyman working actor for a long time.

• 14:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:04Speaker 00

  And, and that's was my goal as a young actor was to be a working actor. So.

• 14:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, of course it does, because it means your peers appreciate your work.

• 14:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:17Josh Horowitz?

  And that's everything, you know, as, as I think all of us on Barry said, the, the recognition for the show and the recognition for, you know, many individuals on the show was the win. Right. That's the win is if you got nominated. And so I feel the same way about this. I'm thrilled that the, I just wanted the show to get nominated because it so deserved it. And it was a nice plethora of yahoos that I got nominated myself. But you, you do know, look, to blow some smoke for a second, like the meaning you have to people, it's like you've had this kind of sneaky cumulative effect, I think,

• 14:58Josh Horowitz?

  on all of us that have grown up, like I, well, I've grown up loving movies and TV and theater and like, you are intrinsically a part of the last 25 years of my love of pop culture.

• 15:09Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 15:10Josh Horowitz?

  Truly. And like, and we're gonna rattle a bunch off in the course of this conversation.

• 15:14Speaker 00

  No, we will. Sorry. This is your wife, Stephen Root.

• 15:16Josh Horowitz?

  But like the fact that you can like go down the street and go into Starbucks and like 10 different roles could come up. Yes, maybe more Milton's than other, but you mean something different to a lot of different people for different things.

• 15:28Speaker 00

  I appreciate that. And I, I was on the plane last night sipping my, my soda water and one of, I had just gone to the restroom, come back and one of the flight attendants came over and said, I recognize your voice. Are you an actor? And, and to be recognized for your voice was a big, big deal. I mean, that's great that she recognized that from King of the Hill.

• 15:54Josh Horowitz?

  Of course.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  You know, and she knew I was an actor and did other stuff, but that's what she liked. So being stopped for those kind of genuine pleasure people is fantastic.

• 16:09Josh Horowitz?

  What's the most obscure ones that come up? Like, I know the ones that I can guess the ones that definitely come up. Office Space.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  Right.

• 16:15Josh Horowitz?

  And News Radio, et cetera.

• 16:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 16:17Josh Horowitz?

  What's the last so random one? Like, really, you saw me in that? You remember me in that? And it come to mind?

• 16:24Speaker 00

  I had a wonderful message from Nick Offerman the other day. He said, your work in George Saunders' Vigil for the, for the book was fantastic. And I, thank you, pal. I mean, I love the guy, but that's not something that you would, you would expect.

• 16:46Josh Horowitz?

  One great voice to another.

• 16:47Speaker 00

  One great voice to another. But that was, that was a thrill. Let me see if I can think of something even odder than that. Uh, I, I think somebody came up to me one time during the Christmas season and said, no, I, I loved you in Surviving Christmas.

• 17:11Josh Horowitz?

  Sentences that has never been.

• 17:12Speaker 00

  It's like, did I do that? I don't remember.

• 17:17Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 17:17Speaker 00

  Okay. Thank you. I think I went through a machine or something on that. I don't remember.

• 17:23Josh Horowitz?

  Oh my God. Well, you do have over 300 credits on the IMTV.

• 17:27Speaker 00

  I do.

• 17:28Josh Horowitz?

  What percentage of those would you recommend I see? What percentage are you proud of?

• 17:33Speaker 00

  I'm, I'm proud of, I would say really, I'm extremely proud of, say, maybe 20%.

• 17:39Josh Horowitz?

  Pretty good.

• 17:39Speaker 00

  Just, just because of the longevity of the career.

• 17:43Josh Horowitz?

  Of course.

• 17:43Speaker 00

  Otherwise, it would be nearer 10, but I've been around for 40 years. So it's a long time.

• 17:49Josh Horowitz?

  Not quality sometimes.

• 17:50Speaker 00

  Sometimes.

• 17:51Josh Horowitz?

  No, you have both. You have both. No, Tom Hanks famously said like a few years back, he's like made four or five great movies, which, okay, Tom.

• 17:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, okay, Tom, then maybe more. But yeah, I think, I think probably the worst review I've gotten was the, I think about a year ago, I saw something about Stephen King's Golden Years.

• 18:13Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah.

• 18:13Speaker 00

  Do you remember that?

• 18:14Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 18:14Speaker 00

  That series?

• 18:15Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 18:15Speaker 00

  And they said, I don't know why Stephen Root was in this. It seemed odd.

• 18:22Josh Horowitz?

  Well, maybe that's speaking to your quality, saying like, you know, he deserved better kind of a thing. Let's, let's take it that way.

• 18:27Speaker 00

  Let's take it that way. That you made it a little better.

• 18:31Josh Horowitz?

  Do you embrace, I mean, I've talked to some actors that like resist the character actor label.

• 18:37Speaker 00

  They do. I don't. I think I am so proud of it. Yeah. No, I'm, I'm the guy that, that wants to watch It's a Wonderful Life for the character actors and the meat, you know, to, for the bank examiner who comes in and the last scene and Jimmy Stewart's like, ah, my brother, he's, he is flying through a snowstorm. Can you believe that? And the bank examiner says, yeah, well, I guess they do those things.

• 19:07Speaker 00

  Which is, well, I come back for that one line for the movie, for the character actors.

• 19:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, the color.

• 19:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:15Josh Horowitz?

  Well, they give the texture, they give the reality.

• 19:17Speaker 00

  That's it.

• 19:19Josh Horowitz?

  Was there ever an aspiration, like, have you ever been the lead in a film? Like, was there ever like a want for like, oh, I'd really like that?

• 19:25Speaker 00

  You know, I've gotten close to doing that. Um, and, and a couple of indies that have, we, we tried to make that happen where I was a number one, but, uh, we were never satisfied with the script and or when it was gonna happen. But, um, I'm, I'm still amenable to it, you know?

• 19:45Josh Horowitz?

  It's not too late.

• 19:46Speaker 00

  But I am the laziest actor in Hollywood because I like to go work and then I like to go home and pet the dog. And then I like to go into the jacuzzi every once in a while, and then I like to go play golf, and then I like to work a little bit.

• 20:00Josh Horowitz?

  Sounds like a good life.

• 20:01Speaker 00

  It's a great life. I don't know how it happened.

• 20:06Josh Horowitz?

  Let's talk a little bit about how it happened. You're good at segues, well done.

• 20:08Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 20:09Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so, growing up, you were, this was not the aspiration. You're, you're a little bit of a late bloomer. It's not till college that you kind of discover girls and drugs, essentially.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  Girls and drugs and acting, finally. Yes.

• 20:21Josh Horowitz?

  Is that right? Do I have the story down?

• 20:23Speaker 00

  You do have the story down, and I don't think without the drugs, which weren't hard drugs, there was marijuana, there was a little hash involved sometimes.

• 20:34Speaker 00

  But I think without them, I mean, I was such a, a pole up my butt, straight, midwestern kid, you know, and I think I needed to just get kicked in the head a little bit to loosen me up. And that did loosen me up. And within a couple of years after that, taking an elective for some student directors, that's, uh, and being able to say, well, just go, you, you're gonna just say these words. I go, that's fun. I like that.

• 21:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  Uh, and within six months, I was in the B of A program.

• 21:09Josh Horowitz?

  And early validation, like, did you feel like, were people saying to you, stick with this? Or you were just feeling that on stage?

• 21:15Speaker 00

  No, I was, I was feeling it, but I got early validation from people, because I did, I, mostly comedy when I was, when, when I was in college, because in, in college, you can play seventy-five-year-olds. You know, you have to, because there's no seventy-five-year-olds in the freshman class. Um, but I did a lot of comedy. I did, uh, Shakespeare, I did Grumio, I did Guys and Dolls, I did Nicely Nicely and Guys and Dolls. I got a lot of nice recognition from that, from people. And so I, I felt very validated. I worked in the State Theater, the Hippodrome, which is the State Theater of Florida, a lot.

• 21:57Speaker 00

  So, yeah, I got a lot of nice validation early on.

• 22:00Josh Horowitz?

  And so what do your, in a nutshell, what do your, like, twenties look like? Your, like, regional theater, running around, like, are you doing side hustles? Like, what's that?

• 22:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I went straight from, uh, the University of Florida to New York City, because I, I, I got, uh, the National Shakespeare Company, which is a bus and truck out, that came out of New York City. We'd rehearsed three shows in Woodstock, um, in nineteen seventy-six, uh, and then we'd take them out on the road for nine months, doing, um, doing little colleges, small places, sometimes huge places. I remember playing West Point, five-thousand-seat house, they had to close the curtains so far in to make us look like, uh, something on stage. But yes, uh, doing double cast in three shows, doing it for nine months.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  I mean, there's nothing, nothing better in terms of, uh, learning your craft.

• 22:56Josh Horowitz?

  See, that, that's like, because I, I've talked to a lot of actors, look, there's like, especially nowadays, it feels like most actors just like break right out, like, they're seventeen and suddenly they're on like a

• 23:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:05Josh Horowitz?

  you know, Netflix show or whatever.

• 23:06Speaker 00

  Right.

• 23:06Josh Horowitz?

  But like, so many folks I talk to, it's like, J.K. Simmons was just here, it's like, the folks that kind of do the ten thousand hours where we never saw it, and by the time I start to see you, or J.K., or somebody on screen, you're a fully formed

• 23:20Speaker 00

  Fully formed, uh, working actor, exactly.

• 23:23Josh Horowitz?

  Right, you've got the chops.

• 23:24Speaker 00

  I've gotten, I've gotten, uh, yeah, and, uh, to answer your question, yes, it was, uh, regional theaters all over, over the East Coast, and, uh, finally doing some Off-Broadway and then some Broadway. And after, after my second, third Broadway show, I got the, um, national tour of Driving Miss Daisy, which was sensational.

• 23:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:51Speaker 00

  You know, and that's, that's two years of, of watching people do great things.

• 23:56Josh Horowitz?

  And then you have the iconic one-two punch, uh, of Monkey Shines and Crocodile Dundee Two.

• 24:02Speaker 00

  That's when I was still living in New York, yeah.

• 24:04Josh Horowitz?

  That, that kind of sets off your film and TV career, right?

• 24:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, that was, that was great, doing both of those things, because it was a nice part in Crocodile Dundee and Monkey Shines.

• 24:17Josh Horowitz?

  Crocodile Dundee Two, what's not?

• 24:18Speaker 00

  Croc, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to take out, because that's all I did in the early days, because then after that, I did RoboCop Three.

• 24:25Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Everybody who skips the RoboCop Three, yeah, that's the one to get to see. Forget the Bear Hovin one, go right to Three.

• 24:31Speaker 00

  Yeah. But af- after doing those things and then doing Ghost, I got to do a little part in Ghost, it's like, oh, well, I'm off and running. Then the next movie I did was many years later.

• 24:45Josh Horowitz?

  You registered with Ghost, I always remember that scene in Ghost, it's like, you're the most like empathetic, it's a very like soft spoken

• 24:52Speaker 00

  Very nice, soft thing with Demi, Demi had just had a kid, I had just had a kid, so we just talked about babies off screen.

• 24:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, and that, that movie was a very shocking phenomenon at the time.

• 25:03Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 25:04Josh Horowitz?

  Those that did not live through it, Ghost was the movie of that summer.

• 25:07Speaker 00

  Absolutely, summer blockbuster with, with, um, visual effects at the time that were startling.

• 25:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:14Josh Horowitz?

  And directed by, like, one of the, like, the, like, Abrahams or Zucker? Like, it was like, the airplane guy did like a, a ghost movie.

• 25:22Speaker 00

  Exactly, yeah.

• 25:24Josh Horowitz?

  So off of Ghost, it wasn't smooth sailing, it was?

• 25:27Speaker 00

  It was, oh, you know, it was, it, it was going to, finally to L.A. to, to try your hand at more film and obviously TV, which I hadn't done.

• 25:39Josh Horowitz?

  At what point, wait, wait, we'll get to News Radio and King of the Hill, which is kind of the next, obviously, markers. Uh, when does your, um, you were, you were technically in Kindergarten Cop, I did not see you in Kindergarten Cop.

• 25:51Speaker 00

  Well, that's because my five scenes were cut out, but I did get Arnold saying, you're fucking funny. So, that, it's okay.

• 26:00Josh Horowitz?

  That's the win.

• 26:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's the win.

• 26:02Josh Horowitz?

  Five scenes is not an insignificant amount of screen time.

• 26:04Speaker 00

  It is not, but, uh, same thing happened to me and, um, White, Oleander.

• 26:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, I had about as many scenes, but this is, I decided to start the movie after that subplot.

• 26:16Josh Horowitz?

  When, when you told, hopefully you don't get to the premiere, it's not one of those situations.

• 26:19Speaker 00

  No, it was really nice, both directors called and said, look, we, we loved what you did, but we're gonna start the movie later and, uh, see ya.

• 26:28Josh Horowitz?

  So we, so was the, the kindergarten cop role, like, when he's still a cop, before he gets to, like, the, uh, the kids?

• 26:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I, I think I am still in that movie, but it's just my elbow.

• 26:42Speaker 00

  So I still get residuals from it, which is fine.

• 26:47Josh Horowitz?

  Um, wait, I do want to mention, as a, as a super geek, of course, Comic-Con, you know, I'm always there, I, you do have some Comic-Con cred, I was looking at the credits, you were not only in a Star Trek episode, you were in a very important Star Trek, the Next Generation episode.

• 27:00Speaker 00

  It was, it was the first time the two shows had crossed, the original and Next Gen.

• 27:05Josh Horowitz?

  I went to Star Trek conventions, I remember when this, this episode

• 27:07Speaker 00

  It was a big deal.

• 27:08Josh Horowitz?

  Two-parter, unification.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  Two-parter, unification, part one and two.

• 27:11Josh Horowitz?

  Let her know.

• 27:12Speaker 00

  Wow, you know your stuff.

• 27:13Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, no, no, I was hardcore.

• 27:16Josh Horowitz?

  You're a Klingon?

• 27:17Speaker 00

  I am a Klingon.

• 27:18Josh Horowitz?

  Um, get to share scenes with

• 27:19Speaker 00

  What was my name?

• 27:21Josh Horowitz?

  Something with a K.

• 27:22Speaker 00

  Yes, exactly right.

• 27:24Josh Horowitz?

  Do you know it?

• 27:25Speaker 00

  Kavada.

• 27:28Josh Horowitz?

  Do you still know any Klingons? Do you remember any Klingons?

• 27:30Speaker 00

  I don't remember, I, I remember everybody in, uh, in and around that universe said, well, there's a whole Klingon, you know, vocabulary and book, and we got there, and I had to say a couple of, "Gubba, this, doc." You know, and they said, well, just make it up.

• 27:47Josh Horowitz?

  It's very easy to fake Klingon.

• 27:48Speaker 00

  What's wrong with you, just make it up.

• 27:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's totally easy. Just sound really angry, like

• 27:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I'm not taking away from the people who know that good stuff, but, uh, I, I didn't have time to learn it.

• 27:59Josh Horowitz?

  Are, are moments like that, I don't know if you were a Trek fan growing up or whatever?

• 28:03Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 28:04Josh Horowitz?

  So is that meaningful?

• 28:05Speaker 00

  For, in, in fact, in college, when, uh, first couple of years before I was in the theater department, it was Derek Eyre to go down to the, the quad and the, and the meeting room to watch Star Trek at three-thirty in the afternoon, every day.

• 28:21Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:21Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 28:22Josh Horowitz?

  So what are, what are the jobs, I'm curious, that are like most meaningful, maybe not even about the actual role, but just like getting the call, oh, I get to be in Star Trek, a Stephen King thing, a Star, Boba Fett, like

• 28:36Speaker 00

  Right.

• 28:36Josh Horowitz?

  Any of those, like

• 28:37Speaker 00

  Well, Boba Fett was a big deal, because my, my, my son is a huge, huge fan, huge Boba Fett fan, and, uh, I, I got the call, um, for that from John, and it said, come in and do this, and so I printed out the two pages that I had, and I had my, my son come over and I said, okay, this is me and this is who I'm playing with today, and he freaked out, uh, and so did I. It was so fun to go over and, you know, enter that universe.

• 29:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So I referenced before, I guess it's kind of the one-two punch in a couple years, like 95, 97 is when you start. 95 is news radio begins.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 29:17Josh Horowitz?

  Which is a long run of that, a hundred episodes of that.

• 29:19Speaker 00

  But that was not my first show. My first actual, real, uh, not recurring, but, but on, in the cast was Hearts of the West. With Bo Bridges.

• 29:33Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 29:34Speaker 00

  Bo Bridges. Uh, and it was a kind of modern, modern, western.

• 29:44Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 29:44Speaker 00

  You know, uh, dealing with a family. Uh, and it was a really, really fun show. But that was the first time I got to be a regular on a show. And that, that, for me, for my, my working class actor self, that was my big break.

• 30:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yes, stability.

• 30:01Speaker 00

  But the real big break, when actual people got to see you and recognize your work, was in his radio, yes.

• 30:08Josh Horowitz?

  Cute, great ensemble.

• 30:09Speaker 00

  Great.

• 30:10Josh Horowitz?

  Led by, R.I.P. the great Phil Hartman.

• 30:12Speaker 00

  Oh, my goodness, Phil. I can still feel him putting his tabs in his script.

• 30:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:19Speaker 00

  He'd put colored tabs in his script to know exactly which scene he was on. He was very meticulous.

• 30:24Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have a quintessential Phil Hartman memory? And this is a guy that was like an all-timer on SNL and we lost him way too young for tragic reasons.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. Um, Phil used to, uh, I mean, he was a great artist.

• 30:40Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 30:40Speaker 00

  You know, he did album covers, the Poco cover.

• 30:43Josh Horowitz?

  Career.

• 30:43Speaker 00

  Amazing, yeah, amazing stuff. But he would draw little things. I have a pencil drawing of him. Uh, it's a pencil drawing of Andy Dick in jail with his dick.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  So.

• 31:01Josh Horowitz?

  Collector's item.

• 31:02Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 31:06Josh Horowitz?

  You've got that and the Milton stapler. That's the nest egg. Those two things you can sell if all else goes to hell.

• 31:11Speaker 00

  Absolutely. Absolutely. I can, I can live on that, I think. But no, I got one. Uh, I, I said I had to have one. Mike Judge got one because obviously it's Mike Judge and we burned up the other two.

• 31:27Josh Horowitz?

  We'll get to Office Space in a second. We mentioned King of the Hill. I mean, this is one of those gifts that keeps on giving.

• 31:32Speaker 00

  It is. It's, I owe Mike Judge a vast amount of, uh, credit for my career, being able to do that show for, well, I did it for, for 10, uh, 10 or 12 years and then we had a break and now we're doing it again. But the fact that I got to enter into a family that was, we saw deaths and births and divorces and, and everything that a normal family feels through that. And that started, what, 90, 96, we probably got together and the first show came out in 97.

• 32:07Josh Horowitz?

  Can you understand everything that Mike Judge says? He's got, he's got a very kind of likes, like, I, I moderate actually a Comic Con thing with him a year ago.

• 32:16Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 32:16Josh Horowitz?

  And he was like three seats away from me and he's so soft spoken, kind of has

• 32:21Speaker 00

  Very much. Very shy guy.

• 32:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:24Speaker 00

  But not when he's performing.

• 32:27Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 32:27Speaker 00

  And, and the fact that he can split his head open and do Boomhauer and Hank without stopping.

• 32:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 32:34Speaker 00

  He can answer himself, which he, he did in Beavis and Butthead. So he had, there's, you know, reason for him to do that. But the fact that he can do it that quickly is just still astonishing to me.

• 32:45Josh Horowitz?

  So that famously, and I've heard, I've heard like kind of the, the tale of how that led to Office Space, which is just sort of kind of a random thing.

• 32:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 32:53Josh Horowitz?

  It begins just as like a, a read and you're just, you're not even going to play Milton at first.

• 32:58Speaker 00

  No, no, no. He took a bunch of us from King of the Hill to do the table read for, for Fox. I, I think I, I was originally going to read the, uh, the psychiatrist that slumps over and dies, one of the bobs. And, uh, I don't know if there was anything else, but he was going to read Milton. And when we were walking over, he said, I want to see it. Why don't you do it? And he showed me a two-minute pencil sketch. And I said, okay, I'll, I'll try something like that, but I want to give him a lisp.

• 33:32Speaker 00

  Just a tiny lisp.

• 33:34Josh Horowitz?

  So your idea was the lisp. I mean.

• 33:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:37Josh Horowitz?

  The whole visage of him is iconic now, just like, you know, the, the hair, the look, the walk, the demeanor, he's.

• 33:45Speaker 00

  And the gravy on the tie. You must, you must, because people come up to me and say, yeah, my, my husband is like that every day.

• 33:56Josh Horowitz?

  Do people come up to you and say like, I'm Milton or I know a Milton? Like, what do they say?

• 34:00Speaker 00

  Always, always that. They always know a Milton.

• 34:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's better to know a Milton than to be a Milton.

• 34:04Speaker 00

  I think that's why the movie was so successful. I mean, it, it showed true characters and there's, everybody who has worked in an office knows exactly what the show is about. And, and many shows after Office Space are on television, probably with some hint of that.

• 34:24Josh Horowitz?

  So it's now 27 years as we tape this since Office Space.

• 34:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:29Josh Horowitz?

  Is essentially, it's still a daily occurrence that somebody wants to like talk about Milton or do Milton for you?

• 34:34Speaker 00

  Pretty much so. Uh, I was, I was seeing a show in Massachusetts, uh, friend, that a friend was in, uh, and we're walking down, very small town, walking down the street. Guy stops, looks at me and says, Steven Root? Uh huh. He drops his pants.

• 34:54Speaker 00

  And shows me all of the King of the Hill characters tattooed on his leg, which is, what a huge compliment.

• 35:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:01Speaker 00

  What an amazing thing. That, that he loved the show so much that he had to have him with him all the time.

• 35:07Josh Horowitz?

  Crazy.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:09Josh Horowitz?

  Do you, you seem like pretty game to just give people Milton if they want Milton. Like, have you done like answering machine messages? Have you, like, have you had strange requests? Like, have you had like?

• 35:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've done a couple of answering machines, but I'm not, I don't like to do them too often just because, uh, I, I want to protect that character as Mike does, which is why he doesn't want to do a sequel. It's, and I, and I think that's correct.

• 35:33Josh Horowitz?

  There was never any like real talk of like Milton spinoff animated show. Nothing.

• 35:40Speaker 00

  No, I don't think so. I, I, I love it as the perfect little package that it is.

• 35:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:46Speaker 05

  More Happy Say Confused coming up.

• 35:53Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Whitney.

• 35:54Speaker 07

  And I'm Katie.

• 35:55Speaker 06

  And we're the hosts of True Crime Campfire. We set out to make a true crime podcast we'd want to listen to. We get right to the story. We don't do a lot of extra talk in, and when we do, it's usually to roast the short hairs off of some loser murderer or scammer. You'll laugh, but only at the people who deserve it.

• 36:12Speaker 07

  Like, which serial killer would you most like to shove into a locker?

• 36:15Speaker 06

  BTK and his awful poetry. Dude got caught because he didn't understand what a floppy disk was.

• 36:22Speaker 07

  We look for the stranger-than-fiction stories, like the case of Patty James, a killer catfish before the internet was even a thing.

• 36:28Speaker 06

  Or Howard Walmsley, a sentient wad of damp laundry who convinced his town he'd won the lottery, fleeced local businesses out of thousands, and then became a romance scammer.

• 36:38Speaker 07

  We've covered tons of cases you've never heard of: cults, scammers, killers.

• 36:43Speaker 06

  So come find your next great binge. Listen to True Crime Campfire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Friday.

• 36:54Speaker 05

  The world of Sonic the Hedgehog has been thrust into a not-so-dark, not-so-stormy, hard-boiled detective story that probably nobody saw coming. Follow Sonic and the intrepid Chaotix Detective Agency as they take on their biggest case yet. This high-flying, action-packed adventure will take them across the world, fighting for every clue they can find. It's one heck of a tale, which is good, because this story might be the only thing that can save their lives. Well, if that's all, I can just dispose of you. Wait, what?

• 37:38Speaker 05

  All will be revealed in Sonic the Hedgehog Presents: The Chaotix Case Files. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 37:56Josh Horowitz?

  Another collaboration is the Coen Brothers, which is like any actor would kill to have the opportunities you've had.

• 38:03Speaker 00

  Kill is the right word. It's the right word. I so respected their work from day one. I had met Joel early on because his wife and I were doing All My Sons at the Long Wharf. But then it was strictly a straight audition after that for Oh Brother that I got to know them.

• 38:30Josh Horowitz?

  That began your, you've done at least two blind racist characters in your career. It's a very Steven Root niche.

• 38:36Speaker 00

  Very Steven Root, yeah.

• 38:39Josh Horowitz?

  Congratulations.

• 38:40Speaker 00

  Well, if it's based on Odysseus, you know, then I'm the Cyclops. It's that scenario.

• 38:47Josh Horowitz?

  Did you go see The Odyssey and say, I could have done that much cheaper?

• 38:50Speaker 00

  I could have. No, I can't wait to see the film, but I want to see it on IMAX. So I'm waiting till, you know, people clear out.

• 39:01Josh Horowitz?

  But yes, you've worked with them a few times. I know Brother is the first time. I'm endlessly fascinated with them. They are arguably for me, like maybe my favorite filmmakers. They've made just dozens of great films. What's their vibe on set? Are they laughers? Do they give much direction?

• 39:18Speaker 00

  Ethan is a laugher. Yeah. Joel, that's funny.

• 39:23Josh Horowitz?

  Stone Age, that's funny.

• 39:27Speaker 00

  But they're both just sweethearts.

• 39:29Josh Horowitz?

  Do you need and want that kind of validation at this point in your career? Did you once? Like, what do you need on a set from a director?

• 39:35Speaker 00

  Oh, I always hopefully want them to let me show you my gut read and then go ahead and direct me from there. Whether it's more or less, faster, slower, or different intention, you know, that's, that's all okay. And the, and the boys let you do that. And they do let you have a free take at the end.

• 39:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Yeah. One for you. I mean, it's, it's, you know, when I think about your career, because like you are able to, there are many characters that have a lot of subtlety to them. And then you, you go big at times when, when needed. Like, nothing in like a movie like Dodgeball or Office Space is necessarily subtle, but it works. Like, it demands that kind of performance.

• 40:18Speaker 00

  It does. For Ethan, it's the one time Ethan told me to go bigger was for, what's, what's the last movie that they did together?

• 40:27Josh Horowitz?

  For Buster Scruggs?

• 40:28Speaker 00

  For Buster Scruggs. I was, you know, I said, this, this guy hasn't seen people for months. He just vomits words as quickly as he can. And that's what Ethan wanted. I said, yeah, that's fantastic. Let's do that. And I started doing it and he said, yeah, I'm going to tell you though, something I don't ever tell you. Go bigger.

• 40:52Speaker 00

  And I went as big as possible and stayed in within the realm of not too crazy.

• 40:58Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that's exciting, I would imagine, as an actor, to be given that license.

• 41:01Speaker 00

  It is.

• 41:02Josh Horowitz?

  And also to know you have the security, like, they're going to take care of me in the edit.

• 41:05Speaker 00

  They're going to take care, he's going to tell me if I go too crazy, like I, I used to do.

• 41:11Josh Horowitz?

  How does, I mean Dodgeball probably comes up a bit too. People love that movie.

• 41:15Speaker 00

  I love that movie. That was my tribute to Rick Moranis. Absolutely.

• 41:20Josh Horowitz?

  That's great.

• 41:21Speaker 00

  I told Ben that. I said, I want to do Rick Moranis in this movie because I, I so admire him as, as a teacher and a comedian. And I thought he was amazing. I said, I kind of want to do him like that.

• 41:36Josh Horowitz?

  So. On a scale of one to 10, how crazy and scary was Rip Torn? Because there's so, there's so much legend about Rip.

• 41:42Speaker 00

  Crazy and scary is exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and when he was sober, he was great.

• 41:51Speaker 00

  I'm not saying that he wasn't, but sometimes maybe he wasn't.

• 41:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Some days were better than others.

• 41:57Speaker 00

  Some days were better than others. Some days you didn't want to be a woman standing next to him.

• 42:01Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, no.

• 42:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:05Speaker 00

  But that's, it's okay. It's, it all worked out in the end.

• 42:08Josh Horowitz?

  Right. The, I know it's also important to you. I've heard you talk about this. Look, you've had this like amazing, you know, lane in comedy throughout your career, but like, you know, it's important to show different facets. And something like West Wing was important to you at the time.

• 42:21Speaker 00

  Really important to me because I had done so much comedy at that point that I literally had to turn down comedy guest stars and stuff. I couldn't turn down Norm MacDonald because he's one of my heroes too. But I said, I don't want to, I don't want to get sucked into another sitcom.

• 42:41Speaker 00

  You know, doing the same thing that I've, I've always done. So getting the call to do West Wing was a huge, huge thing for me. And it made me able to do more drama and more drama shows. Yeah. As a television actor.

• 42:58Josh Horowitz?

  And in film too, I think of like, you know, you were directed, correct me if I'm wrong, by Redford twice.

• 43:04Speaker 00

  Twice. Yeah. I got to act with him once as he directed and, and directed by him.

• 43:10Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, not necessarily, you know, the, the most well-known ones he's did, The Conspirator and Company You Keep, I believe. But still, I mean.

• 43:18Speaker 00

  But amazing. He'd actually cast me in another film. Before that, I couldn't do it. I was doing something else. And he's very generously brought me back for The Company You Keep.

• 43:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Do, I imagine your days of auditioning are long since gone, but were you, do you have like, do you romanticize those days when you were an auditioner? When you, were you a good auditioner?

• 43:45Speaker 00

  I was a good auditioner because I, I wanted to know my lines backwards. If I was going to go to an audition. Did I always hold my pages? Always did. It was a nice comfort blanket to do, but I didn't use them.

• 44:02Speaker 00

  And in the early days, a lot of people would, would come into the offices. You'd see five guys that you always see there and they go, are there sides? You know, it's like, you're not going to get the job because you're not prepared. And I wanted to be always prepared.

• 44:17Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have a happiest memory of an audition, whether you got the role or not? Like something, just that felt like I had a moment.

• 44:23Speaker 00

  I nailed that. Yeah. Yeah. I, I felt that way in my final audition for news radio. I came in and Jimmy Burrows and Paul Sims were looking for an older guy for that role. And, and I came in and Paul said, no, we really like the weirdness that you're bringing. But Jimmy B kind of directed, directed me personally, you know, and said, for this audition, it said, come in, do this and this and this. And I said, okay.

• 45:06Speaker 00

  And I was prepared to do three scenes. I did one scene and I went, no, I gotta go. As Jimmy, you know, would say, I can't, I gotta go. And I think I felt like I had nailed that. Yeah. That, that when I walked out the door, I feel I, I think I've got this part.

• 45:28Josh Horowitz?

  Like, you've literally done every kind of acting, whether it's theater, whether it's sitcoms, whether it's dramas.

• 45:34Speaker 00

  Animation.

• 45:35Josh Horowitz?

  Animation. Is it one size fits all in your, in your mind? Like, is it again, just about honesty and truthfulness?

• 45:41Speaker 00

  I think that's, that's a good point. I mean, it's all honesty and truthfulness, but it's, each medium is, is really kind of different in the terms that when you're doing a sitcom, you're playing for the camera and a 200 seat audience.

• 45:58Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 45:58Speaker 00

  So coming from theater, that was a nice transition. I still have an audience, but I get to play for the camera. I get small sometimes. And then when you're, when you're doing a movie or a drama on television, you're basically doing the same thing.

• 46:16Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 46:16Speaker 00

  When you just, in some instances, you have time to rehearse and some you don't. So I, like I say, I always want to be prepared as I walk in to give you something. I'll give you my gut, but you know, and if you don't like that, then we'll, we'll play around.

• 46:32Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, are there approaches to acting you see in young actors that you can abide by? Like, are there trends or things like, oh, that's just not how I would do it? Or I don't support that?

• 46:43Speaker 00

  I, I have to say that everybody takes something from everything. Some, you take a little bit of method. You take a little bit of Stanislavski. You take, it's whatever, however you came up through the ranks, you know, and if that's

• 47:02Speaker 00

  through Shakespeare and structured roles or through, like Katie Dipple came up through UCB.

• 47:09Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 47:10Speaker 00

  So it, it depends on where you come from. But I think in the end, it's playing, playing it completely honest and real.

• 47:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:21Josh Horowitz?

  Couple more I want to mention before I let you go. We, we, we reference quickly Barry, but we should give it a little more love because um, that was a remarkable series. Bill and the whole team did an amazing job.

• 47:32Speaker 00

  Amazing. And the fact that Bill directed every episode in season four was astonishing.

• 47:38Josh Horowitz?

  No, he's a, he's a cinephile as, as you well know.

• 47:41Speaker 00

  Oh, I know. Oh, I know.

• 47:42Josh Horowitz?

  See, he just directed his first feature, which I can't wait to see.

• 47:45Speaker 00

  I can't wait. I, I, I, I took him to Musso's and tried to, to grill him, but he wouldn't, he wouldn't.

• 47:53Josh Horowitz?

  But yeah, here's a horror film. I don't know. I'm very curious, very curious, but um, the arc of that character pretty remarkable as well. I mean, in terms of like from where you started to where you ended up. I mean, that even the, the very beginning of that experience, as I understand it, was very much in flux of what that.

• 48:11Speaker 00

  Very much in flux. Yeah. We, the way my character was written was over the top all the time screaming, yelling at, at Perry's character. And it just, and we shot that, but as, as HBO and, and Bill said, it just, it's just nowhere to go. There's nowhere to go. So uh, we reshoot my stuff with the emphasis on um, pal, buddy. How are you? You know, and that made, let me start at two. And by the time we got to season four, I could go to 11.

• 48:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. You'd earned it by then. Yeah. And then something like, I want to mention Get Out because again, now people might forget how unexpected that was.

• 48:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah.

• 48:56Josh Horowitz?

  That was his first feature directing debut. Um, so at the time was that sort of just like, oh, this is like a fun gig. We'll see what, what comes of this.

• 49:04Speaker 00

  Fun B movie with, that's, you know, it not necessarily a horror movie, but a thriller. You know, I love thrillers. Um, uh, and I think the reason that I was considered for that role is because I tried to do their show. And they cast me as um, such a fricking racist. I mean, this guy was a a modern slave driver, as it were. And it was so out there. They never showed it. They never showed that episode. We shot it. It was too much because we would have the producer on the side of the going, are you sure you want to, are you sure you want to do this? And it didn't make it on.

• 49:47Speaker 00

  But they, they knew I could do that kind of role. So.

• 49:51Josh Horowitz?

  And when you see the finished product, like, do you remember distinctly seeing Get Out? Like, there must be moments when you see a finished film that suits even your own expectations.

• 49:57Speaker 00

  First time I saw Get Out, I was just astonished at the, the honesty uh, of that film. Uh, to see him cry, um.

• 50:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, Daniel.

• 50:09Speaker 00

  Daniel, to cry, just sitting in that chair as he's going through it. And my buddy Catherine Keener playing, uh, playing with that teacup. So subtle and wonderful. Yeah. No, I, I ran over to everybody and said, this is some of the finest work I've ever seen.

• 50:28Josh Horowitz?

  So you said, uh, early on, you're always the actor, all evidence to the contrary. You, you are, it seems like you're always working when you're not in the jacuzzi or.

• 50:35Speaker 00

  I'm not.

• 50:36Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Okay. I'll take your word for it, but you do have some stuff in the can. I want to mention, yeah. Did you work with Jeremy Solnier?

• 50:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:42Josh Horowitz?

  I'm very curious. He's another filmmaker I'm very.

• 50:44Speaker 00

  Oh, I'm, I'm very interested to see how this has come out. Yeah. It's going to be, it, I think it's going to be really interesting.

• 50:50Josh Horowitz?

  Those films are pretty intense. This one's.

• 50:52Speaker 00

  Very intense. I think I don't want to spoil any of that. Um, but yeah, it was a great working experience and uh, there was some interesting, interesting makeup in that film as well. Yes.

• 51:06Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. So what does pique your interest when you see it in a script now? Is it, is it hard to define like at this point, like, what gets you out of the jacuzzi onto a set or?

• 51:16Speaker 00

  A, a completely, not just my part, but a completely well-written script.

• 51:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:21Speaker 00

  You know, that's, that's the draw always now for me. Otherwise I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm wasting time on what I should be doing. So if the script is fantastic and wonderful, and the person who's directing it or created it is wonderful. And, and then who's in it? Oh, okay. Wonderful. Yes. I'd like to be a part of it. Yeah. Yeah.

• 51:45Josh Horowitz?

  Is there an actor that has evaded you, a director that's evaded you that like, just their name on the script attached would get you?

• 51:53Speaker 00

  I think they've evaded me.

• 51:56Josh Horowitz?

  No, I know you said like when you, when, when Clint came calling, that's a moment, right? Like, are there a few, there must be a few.

• 52:02Speaker 00

  Well, you know, you always, but when I did The Conspirator with Redford, you know, um, uh, the, the other Lincoln movie wouldn't, wouldn't let you anywhere near it.

• 52:18Speaker 00

  So you know, that's like, oh, it's Spielberg, but it's okay. It's a Redford, Spielberg. That's okay. But yeah, I mean, the, the joke is for every, all of us working actors is yes. I'm, I, you got to book me up between here and here unless Spielberg calls, you know?

• 52:39Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 52:39Speaker 00

  That, so that.

• 52:41Josh Horowitz?

  We all, we all grew up with his films. Yeah. I mean, he's, well, he should forgive The Conspirator. Come on. It's been like 15 years. Come on, man. Um, okay. We're going to end with this. Happy second fuse profoundly random questions for you. Okay. Ready? Uh, dogs or cats?

• 52:57Speaker 00

  Dogs.

• 52:58Josh Horowitz?

  You mentioned you're a dog person, huh?

• 52:59Speaker 00

  Dog person got a little uh, chew weenie. A wiener dog, Chihuahua.

• 53:05Josh Horowitz?

  A big dog person myself.

• 53:06Speaker 00

  Hell raiser.

• 53:09Josh Horowitz?

  I think my pit mix might have something to say to yours.

• 53:11Speaker 00

  I bet that. No, he'll, he'll alpha him immediately. Doesn't matter how big the dog is. Oh yeah.

• 53:16Josh Horowitz?

  I've seen it happen. What do you collect?

• 53:20Speaker 00

  I was a big comic collector. Uh, yeah. I, I, when I was 12 and 13 and 14, I was the guy that went, Marvel Comics, this is not just stupid Superman shit. This is, this is real people in like, real situations. So I was a huge Marvel guy from the time I was a teenager till I got to college. And didn't have time for it. Not that I didn't want to.

• 53:48Josh Horowitz?

  Did you have a favorite like hero or team or anything?

• 53:51Speaker 00

  I was always a Fantastic Four person. And I collected all those things in the sixties, kept them. By the time I got to New York and was a starving actor in New York, I had to sell a lot of them just to pay the rent. But I, I feel that was good because that kept me being an actor in New York. The only ones I, I said I wouldn't sell are the Fantastic Four's and I still have them.

• 54:15Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, I feel like this is like the one genre you really, I mean, you've done some voiceover work. I know the superhero world.

• 54:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:21Josh Horowitz?

  I don't think I've seen you in a live action superhero.

• 54:23Speaker 00

  No, no. Uh, my, my wife got to do it. She was in the credits of the first Avengers movie. On the side of the street going, I love you Thor.

• 54:37Speaker 00

  So one part of the family has been in a Marvel show.

• 54:42Josh Horowitz?

  We need to get you in there. What do you want to play? Let's manifest. Stephen, let me help you.

• 54:46Speaker 00

  Gosh, it would be fun to, to do anything, uh, you know, in, in the venue that, that I like, the older, the older stars, the Avengers and, and the daredevils and the, and the Spideys and all that stuff. So I would do, I would, I would, as I would do with the Coen brothers, I'll walk across the stage and go, hello.

• 55:07Josh Horowitz?

  Hello Fantastic Four.

• 55:08Speaker 00

  Fine with me.

• 55:10Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have a favorite? Did you ever play video games? A favorite video game of all time?

• 55:13Speaker 00

  I, I'm not a video game player. Um, because that, that wasn't my generation, you know, sixties. There were, they were not around then, but um,

• 55:28Speaker 00

  there, I like, uh, I, I like watching my son play the big ones. You know, the GTs and all that stuff.

• 55:36Josh Horowitz?

  That kind of thing. Yeah. Um, Dakota Johnson asked me this. I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 55:47Speaker 00

  One bee in my butt because I get squished.

• 55:51Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you for giving it the serious thought it deserves.

• 55:53Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 55:54Josh Horowitz?

  What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 55:56Speaker 00

  My wife smiling beatifically.

• 56:01Josh Horowitz?

  Definitely. Last actor you were mistaken for, Stephen.

• 56:05Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 56:12Speaker 00

  That's a tough one.

• 56:17Speaker 00

  I can't think of anything offhand.

• 56:19Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 56:20Speaker 00

  No.

• 56:20Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, no other character actor adjacent people that they.

• 56:25Speaker 00

  No, it's, it's, no, um.

• 56:32Josh Horowitz?

  I don't see, I'll throw one at you. I don't see like an act, like obviously I know the difference, but like I could see somebody saying, oh, Michael Stilbar, like that.

• 56:39Speaker 00

  Oh, and I love Michael. Yeah. Oh my God. The best. Did you, did you see Pillow Man when it was on Broadway back in the day? I saw it. It was the best thing ever. Yeah. Uh, anyway, yeah, but uh, I got to work with Michael a little bit in uh, Boardwalk Empire.

• 56:56Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right, right.

• 56:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. I can see Michael. I can see because he literally changes into whoever he's playing. He's, he goes so deep and I so admire it. It's great.

• 57:07Josh Horowitz?

  See, that's an example. Look, I'm, I do want to manifest, like you can do character actor roles till cows come home. But like when someone like Michael got like a serious man, you need your serious man. I want like you front and center for a film.

• 57:20Josh Horowitz?

  Let's see. Uh, worst noted director has ever given you?

• 57:26Speaker 00

  Can you do it better?

• 57:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I was trying. I mean, sure.

• 57:32Speaker 00

  Well, I'm here. What are you talking about? Can you give me an actual direction?

• 57:37Josh Horowitz?

  Just better. And finally, in the spirit of happy, sad, confused, who's an actor who always makes you happy? See them on screen, you're in a better mood.

• 57:45Speaker 00

  Nick Offerman.

• 57:46Josh Horowitz?

  Great. Movie that makes you sad?

• 57:55Speaker 00

  Old Yeller. Yeah. Classic. Well, I'm from the 50s. What can I tell you?

• 58:00Josh Horowitz?

  Dogs, please. And finally, a food that makes you confused.

• 58:04Speaker 00

  Confused. Um.

• 58:09Speaker 00

  Pad Thai.

• 58:11Josh Horowitz?

  It seems like you, you started to go in shock as you said it.

• 58:13Speaker 00

  Did. I started to shake.

• 58:16Josh Horowitz?

  What happened? Did Pad Thai wrong you at some point?

• 58:18Speaker 00

  At some point it did, and then I came back to it.

• 58:21Josh Horowitz?

  Give it a second shot.

• 58:22Speaker 00

  And gave it a second shot because I think the first time was not in a place I should have had Pad Thai, some, some dump in London. But I gave it a second shot in Chinatown. It was okay.

• 58:35Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Yeah. We're on the path to reconciliation.

• 58:38Speaker 00

  Yes, sir. Pad Thai is okay.

• 58:40Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. We're ending on a happy note. You and Pad Thai.

• 58:42Speaker 00

  It's always happy and I'm always happy, sad and confused.

• 58:46Josh Horowitz?

  That's why you're the perfect guest.

• 58:47Speaker 00

  There you go.

• 58:48Josh Horowitz?

  Also because of your amazing filmography. Congratulations on all the work. I'm so happy we got a chance to go, go down memory lane. Thank you for indulging me. And good luck at the Emmys. Enjoyed the silliness of all that.

• 58:59Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 58:59Josh Horowitz?

  Well deserved. And um, I'll see, see you for season two, I guess.

• 59:03Speaker 00

  See you then, pal.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  And so ends another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't sure to do this by Josh.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  It's the feeling of escapism, the call of glory that drives us to build fantastic worlds, yet some grow darker than others. Dark Dice is the improvised horror podcast diving into the depths of madness and the corrupt divine in the fantasy realm of terror. Wayward souls who dare risk their characters at our table bring our stories to crawling life. Enhanced with award-winning soundscapes and music, Dark Dice mixes the role of the dice with the drive to survive. So join us and hear the horrors of Dark Dice where every listened podcasts.