Alan Ritchson

Alan Ritchson has a lot to say and more importantly he's not afraid to say it. In this no holds barred conversation the REACHER star talks about his big ambitions, his new film, MOTOR CITY, the hypocrisy that infuriates him, and why he's willing to die for a stunt. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Josh Horowitz?

  People I think are a little bit afraid of me because they're like, he's a loose cannon. And I'm not. I'm just saying the shit that everybody should say if they give a shit about humanity. You know, and why is, why am I the exception to the rule? Everybody else speak up. You are all feeling the same thing, you idiots. Like, like, get loud and stop like kowtowing to the wrong people.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 0:31Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Today on the show, Reacher himself is in the house. Alan Richson, strap in. This is a good one. Hey guys, thanks as always for checking out the podcast. I appreciate all of you guys. Remember to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already. On YouTube, on Spotify, on whatever podcast platform you use. The main event today, Alan Richson, this is one that people will be talking about because this man, no holds barred conversation. He's the best. We'll get to that in a second. First up, a reminder. Patreon.com/happysecondfused is your friend. If you like what I do, if you want to support what I do, if you want to see more of what I do, go over there, Patreon.com/happysecondfused.

• 1:14Josh Horowitz?

  Early access, bonus content, autographed merch, all the cool fun stuff. Come to our live events in New York and LA. All the information is there. Check it out. Okay. So as I have already teased, Alan Richson, of course you know, from Reacher. It is about to debut its fourth season in a few weeks. He's already about to start shooting season five. More to come on that phenomenal hit show on Prime, but he was here to talk mostly about his great new film. It's Motor City. I highly recommend this one. This is a fun, wild, stylized action film. Virtually no dialogue in the film. Alan is front and center. He's avenging, he is revenging, he's doing all the engings

• 1:57Josh Horowitz?

  on behalf of his wife, played by Shailene Woodley, bad guy, played by Ben Foster. He always delivers too. Well worth checking out. Motor City, highly recommended. This conversation though goes in many different areas. Because Alan is so unfiltered in the best possible way. Talking about his remarkable arc of his career in terms of coming of age and kind of being a late bloomer in some ways as an actor. His early days on Smallville as Aquaman, having success, but then kind of having it pulled away from him. Obviously, his work that really kickstarted with Reacher back when he was cast in 2020 and all the opportunities that have come since then.

• 2:37Josh Horowitz?

  And his philosophy on kind of like taking the bull by the horns and really trying to make the most of his career. He's clearly a workaholic. He's clearly a very passionate guy about many things. He goes there in terms of talking about politics and ambition and what he is just incensed about in the world. And I respect him for it because not a lot of actors speak their mind like Alan Ritchson. He's funny. He's smart. He is unique in the best possible way. So I'm so thrilled to share this one with you guys. Enjoy with your eyes and ears, the one and only Alan Ritchson. Oh, boy. It's the star of Reacher and Reacher's Reacher and Motor City.

• 3:14Speaker 02

  It's just Reacher's back, baby.

• 3:16Josh Horowitz?

  We're back in business, man. Alan Ritchson, welcome to the podcast.

• 3:19Speaker 02

  It's such a pleasure to be here.

• 3:20Josh Horowitz?

  It's good to see you, man.

• 3:21Speaker 02

  It's good to see you, too.

• 3:22Josh Horowitz?

  You're you're kind of the busiest man always in showbiz. Like, I know this from like, like, you know, hounding your team like, what is Alan around? Is he? He's working. He's always working.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  I do have an obsession with the kind of work that I'm able to do. But the thing is, like, I was in the business for 18 years, you know, before.

• 3:39Josh Horowitz?

  Where was I then? Is that what you're saying?

• 3:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, where? Yeah, I'm still the same guy. But like, I was in the business for so long and you dream of getting to the place where you can start to curate your your work, right? Like, I would like to do this next. I would like to play this character or tell this story. And when it arrives, like, oh, my God, pinch me. It's so it's rarefied air. I'm grateful for it. And I I want to seize that opportunity to go like, this is what I want to bring to Hollywood and to audiences, you know? I there's so many kind of derivative or. Risk mitigated sequels, you know, and like this is nothing new. Now it's almost a trope to talk about it. But I said, when I did my first look to it with Amazon many years ago,

• 4:21Speaker 02

  you can probably dig this up on the internet. I want to create original, high concept, original IP, new adventures for people to fall in love with. And if a sequel comes out of that, great, like, we've made something generational, right? But that's really hard to do. And I meant it. And here we are, like, you know, getting to tell fresh new stories. And I'm so excited by that. And there's more I want to do. There's a lot I want to do.

• 4:43Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, you're getting at like, one of the constant kind of conversations I have with folks on the podcast, which is kind of that crazy shift when like, you go from like, the actor, that's like, I'll take anything. I just need to work. I just need a job to like, the luxury of choice, and then to where you're at, where you can really steer your own ship to a degree. And that's a crazy shift, I would imagine in your brain.

• 5:03Speaker 02

  It is a crazy shift. And, you know, then it becomes about really knowing that the marriage that you're about to make to a project is worth the fact that you're gonna lose sleep in a family and have no time off and

• 5:19Josh Horowitz?

  And take you off the board for other things that might come around.

• 5:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, you gotta know. Yeah. And so, you know, I worked with Bruckheimer on Ministry of Ungenerally Warfare. And so people asked him in an interview about working with me, you know, is he the next big star, whatever. And he was like, you know, I've seen a lot of them come and go. And a lot of the ones that I thought were it, they disappeared. And he was, you know, he followed it up with the fact that it's about the project you choose. And I remember, somebody sent me that interview. And I was like, wow. And he's right. And I kind of have always intuitively known, like, both how to pick a project and how important it is to me. I read faster than anybody in town. I'm the one that makes the choice. You know, we make team decisions, but like, I know what I want, what we're looking for, and the deep emotional

• 6:06Speaker 02

  threads, even if it's like a sci fi thing, like War Machine is a good example. I knew exactly, I knew that moment, I was like, this, we're gonna make a hit, because the emotional threads were like sacred and eternal, and something we all understand and can relate to and enjoy, wrapped in something scorpion fun for everybody. And so I just had Those ingredients for me and I'm looking for those things all the time. And and so like to Brooke Commerce's point, it's essential that I have the taste to pick the right projects and then the ability to execute bringing those to life. And so that that jigsaw puzzle, that that that puzzle, that burden, that responsibility, the privilege, all of it is. It's it's like it's where the fun is for me.

• 6:44Josh Horowitz?

  How quickly did that shift happen for you? So you get you get Reacher, it debuts, it's immediately a hit. Like, did you immediately start getting scripts sent to you and?

• 6:54Speaker 02

  That was immediate.

• 6:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  That was immediate. But, uh, you know, now I'm now, so at that point, I'm sort of like a servicing actor, sometimes a producer. These projects usually have been around the block, you know, it's like, uh, Motor City is a good example. This is what I would love to talk about today at some point. This amazing film that I felt like was a masterpiece the moment I read it and did everything I could to champion it and bring it to life. And, uh, it I learned through the course of producing that that it had been around for 18 years.

• 7:27Josh Horowitz?

  It's one of those famous blacklist scripts.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  In Hollywood, everybody knew this script and was like, oh, man, oh, Motor City, I remember reading that when I was a junior agent at CAA 10 years ago.

• 7:36Josh Horowitz?

  You're like, no, I just discovered that.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  No, I know. I know. And so then you started to go like, why didn't it get made, you know? Well, I realize now, you know, it that film in particular, it sits at the intersection of art and commerce in a big way where it's a very commercial action film, but with no dialogue, very artistic Shakespearean drama that is so gripping. But it's that's hard to make, you know? So so anyway, um, the the the scale and quality of things that have come in has has has like really changed over the last like year or two.

• 8:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  But at first it was like, would you like to act in this thing? It's a cool movie. And that happened overnight. I mean, I like Reacher, season one was released, I think, like Thursday at midnight or something. And by Saturday, we had record numbers. By Monday, I had like 40 offers in my inbox. But um, but now it's like, now we see manuscripts before they're published. Publishers are bringing us IP before anybody else sees it. We're one of a we're like, there are maybe five camps in town that get to see things first, is screenplays and ideas. And, uh, I'm, you know, I've just been very fortunate that like we're able to, because people are starting to be able to trust in my taste and ability to execute with my team. That we can deliver 100, 150 million dollar movies, sell them, set them up and they'll be, they'll be, you know, amazing experiences for audience. And so we have access and that's, that is fun.

• 8:52Josh Horowitz?

  So when this script comes around, this famous blacklist script, which maybe you didn't realize when it arrived to your desk had been around for a minute.

• 8:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:58Josh Horowitz?

  Do they tell you, I hope they tell you like, by the way, don't go in counting the lines because you're going to be very disappointed.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  I had no context. I had no context. I opened up the script and you know, when you, I read hundreds of scripts a year, right? And they're all similar in presentation. I mean, you see the scene action, which is like a set of longer lines and, and then there are shorter margins, right? For dialogue. And so you sort of, you're used to it laying a certain way on the page and you don't want a lot of black because readers can get bored and lost. And so, you know, you know, you want scripts to be efficient for the reader as much as you want it to be efficient for the audience so that you sell these things and engage people. And so when I opened it up and it was all scene action, I was like, oh, I'm a little better than this guy.

• 9:41Josh Horowitz?

  Is there a formatting mistake here?

• 9:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was like, somebody's got no discipline, right? And then, and then you realize like, oh, this is different. Where is the, and I kind of flip ahead and I'm like, there is no dialogue in this movie.

• 9:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  And I flew through that script probably faster than any other, which is also an indication to me of a good script. If you get, if I'm like rereading a lot because my mind is wandering or I'm having trouble following the sheer volume of characters or exposition, that's a bad sign. If I'm racing through a script, especially with my severe ADHD, that is a good sign.

• 10:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 10:12Speaker 02

  And I finished this, the script was 87 pages, very short for, for a drama. And, and I got through it in probably 87 minutes, you know? So it was like, I knew there was something special about it.

• 10:23Josh Horowitz?

  So the challenge for you as an actor must be like juicy, like must be very exciting because you have to obviously convey a lot with very little dialogue, as discussed.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 10:34Josh Horowitz?

  Like in the, you know, there's one thing to kind of like think about that in advance. Then when you're on set, does it become like a different kind of set of challenges you hadn't anticipated or?

• 10:41Speaker 02

  Well, I, you know, so I, a lot of people don't know this about me, but I have a whole business in producing.

• 10:47Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 10:48Speaker 02

  I have distribution deals around town. You know, I, I love being at that, the very genesis of the creative process. And I feel like I'm pretty decent at it. So when I come in as an actor, especially one like, you know, for context, Motor City has virtually no dialogue. And

• 11:11Speaker 02

  That relieves me of a lot of my duties where I don't have to memorize lines and that's just a time consuming process, making sure that everyone's authentic and necessary and, you know, capturing the subtext properly or whatever. Without having to dedicate time to that, I could spend more time understanding the emotional threads of the film and through line. But I wasn't so, I wasn't so much challenged by the performance as much as I was challenged by the many producing hurdles that we ran into. This was not a studio picture. I had taken it to town.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  And the studios or the studio that I brought it to first felt like there were a couple of huge fans and there was enough people on the green light committee there that was like, who's going to watch a film with no dialogue? How do you keep people engaged? Like that's, that is the problem, but we have a plan to overcome that, right? It's a filmmaker driven film, an excellent cast and, you know, their music is a character in this film. It's got one of the best soundtracks of the year. There are ways to, there are, dialogue is not the only tool in the toolkit and I think this teaches people that.

• 12:25Josh Horowitz?

  Watch any Mad Max movie, like George Miller is like the king of this. You're not tuning into that for Tom Hardy's dialogue.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  And let's, and let's also show people that like, maybe there are other ways that we can play with the many tools that we use, the devices that we use and explore storytelling in new, unique ways. I think the audience is everywhere ready for that, but, but it was like, you know, the studios like this, they're about mitigating risk.

• 12:48Josh Horowitz?

  Right. And They can't comp this anything else, so of course it's not.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  It's about the looking in the rearview mirror, what just worked? How do we do that?

• 12:55Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  And that's not what, that's not the business I'm in. And so, you know, I had to make this in a more circuitous way and so that, you know, you start putting together indie financing and that's hard because it falls through, suddenly somebody's check doesn't clear, escrow is empty when it's not supposed to be. We were actually set up to shoot some of this on sound stages in Dubai because they were, they were giving like really incredible incentives and co-financing to have us come over there and do some work. And we got over there, my production designer, Burns Burns, who's a good friend of mine and we've done a lot of work together. He went over there ahead of me just to like, I was like, just help us get a feel for what this is. And he's like, Safety concerns. Safety, there ain't no OSHA over here, dude. This is safety concern central and this place is not fit for like

• 13:41Speaker 02

  Right. Business, it's like the dangerous environment to work in. Sure. Just the like the architecture alone was like not unsound unfit for people to be working in. And it wasn't ready for, it wasn't ready for what we were gonna need to do. And that was like, well, now we gotta go back to the drawing board, but we are in hard prep. You know, and so we, you know, we, we brought all that soundstage work back to the States. Anyway, it was just, so you're constantly battling the realities and difficulties of making cinema, especially cinema that is totally unique and not really been explored before. Yeah. And the way that we solved a lot of those problems was Patsy, Ponsoroli, the director and I, who I'm just the biggest fan of.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  And he really made this movie what it is, but we would have nightly calls and I'd hate, I'd hate that. When I saw his name line up at like nine PM, I'm like, no, no, what do we lose? And you know, I'm like, hey, what's up, Patsy? And he's like, okay, let's do it. And I'm like, what do we lose? And he's like $450,000 from the junior, you know, loan that fell through or whatever. Like, oh God, all right, okay, okay, okay. He's like, this is what we're shooting this week. This is my idea for what we can cut to manage this. And a lot of times, you know, he'd be like, I think it's a drama first and Shakespearean like romance. And it's about the love triangle. So I think we lose the elevator fight scene. And I'm like absolutely over my dead body. And by the way, that scene, the elevator fight is so good.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  I think this will be something that is like referenced as like peak action material and worth the price of admission alone. Everybody should come see this movie, but like when that happens, the audiences I've seen it with, it is so satisfying to hear people's reaction to that in the, in the movie theater when, when it's anyway. So I fought for that kind of thing, right? I, to the point where I was like, I'm gonna pay for the scene myself. It's that worth it to me. Audiences, this will make the movie and satisfy audiences more than anything that we're doing. It's gotta stay. Talk about, let's talk about other ideas. And so we'd find a way to cut a hundred extras or move a scene from inside a disco with billions of people to outside in an. Or something. Um, so it was more efficient to shoot. Um, and, uh, and, and those compromises,

• 15:49Speaker 02

  you know, um, I think we always were able to protect the best, you know, the, the integrity of the film in the best way. But that to take a long winded way of saying, to answer your question, that consumed 95% of my energy. And then I'd show up on set and we do the scene, you know, where I just, I just sink into those, usually rage, sink into those emotions.

• 16:11Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, it is a bit of like, for more context, a little bit of a throwback, right? It's like 70's set Detroit. It's like, I feel like back in the day would have been Clint or Steve McQueen or something like that. Like, you know, man of few words that is out for justice. Um, it's like, I was very impressed. Like, it's, you know, it's funny how you can tell kind of like you're in safe hands right from the start of a movie, like, opening images of the film, like, yes, like you throwing a guy over a roof in front of a neon sign. Like, it's like the imagery is there.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  One of the coolest cold opens too, by the way, like the movie, you're just thrust into the middle of something. A guy running across a rooftop in, in Detroit in 19, in the, in the seventies with a guy who has a leg missing, still sort of bleeding from a fight. And then he hurls the body off into a car and we're in. And you're like, what happened?

• 17:00Josh Horowitz?

  Let me catch up with this madness.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's, um, man, I love this movie.

• 17:05Josh Horowitz?

  So when you're in the middle of these fight scenes, do you have to resist the urge to like, improvise a line? Like, cause the body, don't you want to say something? And like,

• 17:13Speaker 02

  Of course, of course. And I'm very improvisational, you know, like that's why a lot of people bring me on to projects because they've, you know, they're like, oh, you know, just want to keep it loose and see what you can find, you know? Um, and, you know, I, I'm always looking and listening in every moment, listening hard for something that inspires some thought that that character is having, right? My job is to, to make sure that thoughts that come from the ether belong to the character, knowing it well enough to like, for those things to be his, but fresh in the way that we listen, be listening the way that he would listen, right? That's my job. And, and it makes it very easy to improvise when those thoughts belong to the, are appropriate for the character, time and setting and all that, his experiences.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  And so naturally, verbal communication usually is, there's a wellspring of that, like when I'm having these thoughts. And I had to show a little more restraint than normal, where usually I would just say something. But we wanted to honor the fact that this was the brainchild of Greg Silverman, who was the president of Warner Brothers, maybe 20 years ago. And he wanted to make a movie that could be a universal shared experience between all moviegoers and all cultures, all languages, right? There's no language barrier where somebody has to read captions, subtitles, and other people get to experience it because they understand the language. We could all just watch the drama unfold. And, and, and he gave the mandate to Chad

• 18:39Speaker 02

  St. John, who's an incredible writer and absolutely crushed this. And this is what Chad cooked up. And, and so I, you know, we, so we did have to show some restraint. And I would say like the proposal scene, there's a scene where I propose to my character proposes Shailene Woodley, Shailene Woodley's character. And it was terrifying to work through a proposal without saying anything. And how do you do that? And so I had to fill it with a lot of inner turmoil. Right. And the questions and the stress of that moment, is this the right time, it's the right place, she's cooking scrambled eggs right now. I don't know if maybe I should do that. Maybe she's good. Maybe you should say no, like maybe I, you know, like all those things, right? And then that leaves you sort of in a place where it makes sense. And you just had to trust that it's gonna

• 19:21Speaker 02

  land and look authentic, you know, but it's what great fun we had.

• 19:26Josh Horowitz?

  We'll be right back with more Happy, Sad, Confused.

• 19:32Speaker 03

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• 21:19Josh Horowitz?

  My guess is you're probably very good in a pitch meeting. Like you're such a passionate advocate for your vision, for a creative vision, working with the team. I mean, and clearly, as much as you love acting, you've talked about this already, like you get off on the whole process.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  Well, here's the, so I see an opportunity to create tomorrow's best TV and film. I see a path to what is what I am here to service audiences' needs before they're expressing exactly what it is, right? Like taking a temperature of what's in the zeitgeist. What are people looking for? I want to be the defender and deliverer of that, that content now, right? We have to start now because it's going to take me a few years to get this film into the eyes of movie going audiences. That's a fun job. Like I love my job and I think I have the taste to deliver like really high quality stuff. And so, you know, finding

• 22:16Speaker 02

  it, finding the right partner, whether that be classical theatrical distribution or streamers, which is a great way to access a lot of content these days that maybe normally wouldn't get made. You know, finding those partnerships and championing these things in a way where they trust that you can execute and and then you're you're working on this new startup, which is going to, you know, be three years of your life. They transfer in a hundred million dollars and you got to deliver a new business and it's got to work. You get one product to sell one time and you got to hope it works, you know, that's but it's it's like it's a challenge that it both keeps me up at night and keeps me and from getting bored.

• 22:52Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, the way you're talking about all this reminds me back in the day of someone that you worked with relatively recently, which is Arnold. Like Arnold.

• 22:58Speaker 02

  Oh, he's an interesting mind.

• 22:59Josh Horowitz?

  So strategic and so smart about the business as much as he is about the performance and just inhabiting like a persona.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:07Josh Horowitz?

  Did you guys talk about this kind of stuff?

• 23:09Speaker 02

  All the time, all the time. He is a super savvy businessman. He also really wanted me to get into politics because after we got to know each other, he was like, man, you need to do this. And I'm like, I'm not ready to retire yet, so I can do that.

• 23:23Josh Horowitz?

  Did he plant the seed? Is it down the line? Are we talking politics?

• 23:26Speaker 02

  I, you know, I look, I just want to help people, you know, like there's going to come a time when I feel like maybe I'm either well resourced enough or, I don't know, visible enough to like, you know, to really make an impact in many people's lives, right? And I care deeply about the outliers, the maligned, people who have very difficult lives, people who are forgotten and overlooked and unwanted and unloved. Like, I care deeply about making the world more fair and free for those people. And a lot of politicians have lost the they've lost the plot. And there is a desire for justice and fairness in me that is, I look,

• 24:05Speaker 02

  I just found this, I work with an ADHD coach now. Because ADHD has like made my personal life, it's in shambles. My career is amazing. And that is ADHD in a nutshell. You're a millionaire and you have no one in your life that loves you.

• 24:22Josh Horowitz?

  High functioning, low functioning. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. And and so I've been working, I've learned a lot about ADHD and rejection sensitivity dysphoria is something that ruins relationships and I suffer from that deeply. It's hard to feel like I've let somebody down. And I was having a conversation about the business in this regard. Yeah. Because I get so, I get mad when I'm like, I don't feel seen, heard, respected as a creative who continues to prove with like, number one hits across the board, that I know how to do this and I know what audiences want. And people are going like, I don't know, I don't really see it that way. And you're like, ah, you know, like, and, and, and feels unfair or whatever. I mean, that's a bad example, but like, but I was like, I just wanna, I just want more

• 25:05Speaker 02

  peace and emotional maturity, clarity in the business place so that I don't feel these like huge ups and downs, this roller coaster of volatility. And she's like, well, the examples that you've given me and what's causing that is another umbrella of ADHD. And I'm like, great, there are more? Like, it gets worse? Injustice sensitivity. And that is, so I'm like, wow, that makes a lot of sense because I have put myself, I had somebody shoot themselves in the leg while I beat their ass for breaking into my car. Because I was like, well, I'm gonna go take care of this group of people. There's a group of people breaking into the car and starting, starting in on my house and they didn't know that I was in there. And I went after him and, and a guy

• 25:48Speaker 02

  shot himself in the leg trying to like, you know, like fend me off. And I never, there wasn't one second where I was like, maybe I shouldn't be doing this. I was like, this is exactly what I need to be doing. And this is exactly what this guy gets. And like, so I, there's nothing, it's very reacher. Like, there's nothing in me that hesitates or gives a shit about like people taking on people who deserve it. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, like, that gene doesn't exist. And, but it also makes life very frustrating. I live with a lot of contempt at the way things are because I see unfairness and injustice everywhere and I'm frustrated by it. And, and so, anyway, in, in working with this coach, I've learned that that's a thing that I really wanna manage. And that informs my politics. Right. Right? That is, that is where it is for me. So like, people who like, think they're

• 26:30Speaker 02

  doing God's work, while they're creating monsters, telling themselves this story that there are monsters among us that should be kept apart and separate, that ain't it, dude. And then ain't no, no true religion in the world that would support that idea. So you gotta, you gotta be introspective and check yourself and make sure who's talking points you're listening to. If you start to hate others or separate yourself or create division, like, like red flags, red flags.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  And I don't see it that way. And I, so like, if I got into politics, I would, I would have to be ready to hang it up for a minute in the, in the business that I'm in. I'm not there yet, but um, I would go full, I would make a full throated effort to um, to make the world a more fair place. Um, and, and you know, clean up the law so that it's harder for people who are corrupt and wanting to abuse the system, take advantage of it, um, to do so.

• 27:18Josh Horowitz?

  I respect literally everything you said and the passion behind it. And I also respect the fact that like, as you well know, there are a lot of actors that are afraid to kind of like speak their mind and kind of like.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  I don't give a shit. I told you, I'm missing that gene dude. I need that because it's honestly, it's a, it's a, everybody's scared around me for what I'm gonna say. Everybody's saying, my publicist right now is like, I say, she's like biting her nails, her nails are, she bites her nails down to the cuticles. They're just tiny little cuticles left. I said, what is this idiot gonna do? It's, I just have to, she actually showed me her beautiful nails right now. Um, you know, it's, it's, it's like people I think are a little bit afraid of me because they're like, he's a loose cannon. And I'm not. I'm just saying the shit that everybody should say if they give a shit about humanity, you know?

• 28:05Speaker 02

  And why is, why am I the exception to the rule? Bitch, everybody else speak up. You are all feeling the same thing, you idiots. Like, like get loud and, and stop like kowtowing to the wrong people. Stop bowing down to people that like have power. You got power too, man. Empowered numbers, dude. You know what happened if like, everybody felt like me? Everybody felt, I just thought, I was just, I see, I gotta keep careful. I left Dax, I just did armchair expert with Dax Shepard. I went on a goddamn rant that I left like, I was like, that's just not, man, it's just not me. I shouldn't be, I shouldn't say those things because people are gonna start to get like, he's scary.

• 28:38Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  I, you know, but I just like, dude, if every, he goes, he goes, I love Dex. I had the best time on his show. And he goes, um, maybe you should let go of that stuff. And I'm like, let go. I was like, everybody else should have it. Everybody else should feel like I feel.

• 28:52Josh Horowitz?

  The world is on fire.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, like all mad about the way things are and the abuses that are happening. Every, the Epstein files? The fucking Epstein files? God damn it. Where are they? It's a fucking law, bitch. Show it. You fucking pedophiles. I shouldn't say fuck because I'm a Christian and people are gonna go like, how can you say fuck and he's a Christian? Because that is something that should make you want to say fuck. You know, sorry, God, I'm sweating now. I just, this is my fucking politics, dude. I would fucking railroad these fuckers. I would get those Epstein files out in two seconds. Yeah, dude, I two seconds, fucking move out of the way. Like, get out of there. I don't care what room they're in, bitch, move. Like, give me the fucking manila envelope. I will get you the Epstein files.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  I got, sorry.

• 29:39Josh Horowitz?

  You got my vote. Whatever you want to run for, you got it.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  I, don't you want to see what's in there so that we can hold people accountable? These fucking rapists, we're just cool with it? That bitch has the keys to the nuclear, he's like, like all up into 13 year olds. Like, dude, what? Go to jail. Go to jail. All right, what are we talking about?

• 29:58Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, you're a big Jim Carrey fan growing up.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  I love Jim Carrey. His work in Sonic the Hedgehog is just, uh, it's truly transcendent. No, okay, I'm sweating now.

• 30:09Josh Horowitz?

  We're good, we're good.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  But this is ADHD also, like, this is a justice system.

• 30:13Josh Horowitz?

  The true face.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  This is how I feel. And this is why my family is like, maybe we shouldn't be a family anymore. You just, you're better on the road. We want to live in, in, uh, the place that we live now by ourselves.

• 30:24Josh Horowitz?

  Was this Alan growing up, if I met you at 12 years old, is this, is this basically the same guy? Like, in terms of his vibe?

• 30:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, but just the things that made me mad were different. Like, the fact that, like, you know, like, like Nintendo wouldn't work, the controller wouldn't work sometimes. I used to think that people were actually watching us play from behind the TV monitor. Like, the Nintendo people were, like, controlling everything else. You want me to fail, you know, and I throw the controller by my butt. I, if you throw another controller, um, so, anyway, maybe the anger matters more now, I don't know.

• 30:54Josh Horowitz?

  Were you, you were, you were both artist and jock growing up? Did you, were those both sides of you?

• 30:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a lot of, I've, well, I'm still artist and jock, I would say, like, you know, it's, um...

• 31:04Josh Horowitz?

  Like, what did the family make of, of Alan, of?

• 31:07Speaker 02

  My, I will say, look, to, yeah, there's a lot of, hmm, you know, when you grow up the son of a narcissist, there's gonna be a CPTSD diagnosis in your future. And you're gonna have to do a lot of work. Transcranial therapies and, you know, like, I've had to do a lot of work to, like, you know, learn what love should look like, um, but I will say this, you know, for, for, for all, all the challenges I've faced growing up, um, my parents were super supportive and, you know, my dad especially, like, really, he, he really went to bat.

• 31:41Speaker 02

  To make sure that we could explore ourselves in whatever way we needed and we didn't have a lot of money. And I remember he was chief master sergeant in the air force, which is a very hard rank. It's uh, it's more rare than other high ranking officials in other branches of the military than what less than one percent of the air force becomes chief. So it's a well-respected rank. And that's kind of how I knew him is he was a leader and uh, he um, he took a job. At a little tiny local airport as a night security guard because we were trying to do so many things, track chorus. You know, um, on train new, these like social clubs, um, things that travel, traveling baseball, like we were involved in everything.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  And didn't have the money to do it. And so he, so he would work all day, come home nap, and then he'd go as, work as a night security guard at this place. So that we could afford to do all the things that we wanted to do, including the arts.

• 32:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:36Speaker 02

  And he will forever be my hero for that. Like, I want to cry thinking about it because um, that, that's a man. That's a man, serving his family, doing whatever it takes. And I so respect that. And he eventually stopped doing it, one, because it was taking a toll on him, obviously the time. But he also like a lot of the lower ranking, um, you know, people in the air force that would see him would kind of like, you know, tease him. You know, what the fuck are you doing here, chief? You're working at night, you know, the thing. And he's like, man, I'm just, all the youngsters are like, they don't. Yeah, they make fun of me and um, you know, so he stuck it out for, for long enough to help us get our goals met for that year.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  Anyway, so hats off dad and uh, you know, mom for supporting uh, my exploration of like art when we were growing up in the south and everybody thought I was. Uh, like the gayest dude that they've ever met because I would rollerblade to chorus practice and then go pole vault, you know? It was a paradox wrapped in a conundrum and uh, I just like trying things, you know? I did ballet, I have a degree in ballet. Did you know that?

• 33:41Josh Horowitz?

  I think I did know that.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  Uh, associate arts degree, uh, associate of arts degree in ballet. Um, because when I quit my music theater program, I had enough and I left and that's what it was. I just wanted to go out and live life and explore more and experience more, but. It was harder for me to go through those experiences because I was like, I hope nobody sees me here than it was for him to support me.

• 33:59Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  In that way.

• 34:00Josh Horowitz?

  When you start to make that transition, we're not going to have time to go into everything, but obviously like, I mean, minefield, we could go into the modeling. I know this was a horrible experience for you.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  What a dark underbelly of life that is. Yes. You want to go there? And just his sensitivity will make this a real interesting interview.

• 34:16Josh Horowitz?

  Suffice it to say, you're not encouraging the kids or anybody to go into modeling.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  Definitely not.

• 34:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. You make the transition into acting and, you know, that role in Smallville was kind of, I guess, the first big break, safe to say. Aquaman, would you say that?

• 34:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was it. Yeah, that was, I mean, right out of the gate, that was one of, one of, one of the first opportunities I had and it was, I didn't know what I was doing at all. And in fact, uh, you know, Warner Brothers or CW, it was CW at the time, um, they, um, uh, they had hired a, an acting coach to be there on set and they're the, the acting coach and the director would fight all the time. I didn't know that you weren't, it wasn't normal to have an acting coach on set coaching, directing me. And the director would yell at him, stay away from my fucking actor. And I was like, why are they fighting? He's my coach that they hired to, this is my coach. He's here to help me, you know? And this guy would tell me one thing and the coach would tell me another. So I was wholly confused the entire time. Um, and it's funny how much I've learned now, but like, yeah, but I would, but anyway, I just, I got that part because I was, I didn't know

• 35:14Speaker 02

  any better. I didn't, I just, it was just pure instincts and I didn't put anything on it, you know?

• 35:19Josh Horowitz?

  Did you, did you feel at that time, like entitled to a career? Did you feel like you were ready for that kind of, the success that would come much later?

• 35:27Speaker 02

  Oh, after that, oh, you know, that's interesting. Uh, that was, so what happened? Behind the scenes for me was the best loss that I've, uh, could have ever asked for. It was a blessing in disguise. I, I came on to Smallville, season five. I didn't know what I was doing, coasting on instincts. And I got this role as Aquaman and our, uh, episode set a ratings record for the show.

• 35:50Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 35:51Speaker 02

  And you're five years in, it's like, that doesn't happen.

• 35:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  And it wasn't because of me. Nobody knew who I was, but people were interested in the character and they like, enjoyed it, you know? And so I was asked to come back and I was told that they were treating that episode as a pilot for a spinoff. Right. And so they made me an offer for my own show and I was like, to your point, sort of was that the, did that kick the door open in a way where you're like, oh, this is my town now? And I was like, I'm gonna get my own show. That's, oh my God, I did it. I did it. I've arrived. I've been here for 11 minutes, whatever. And, um, and we started negotiating and I, I would have guys from the studio call me and, oh, Alan, I'm here just to keep your head on the ground. You know, if you ever get in trouble, you get a little too drunk at a club, get in a little tiff, you call me, I clean up the mess.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  And I was like, oh, there's fixers? This is 1940s? Where? I know, I know. Um, so he, uh, so, so, so he would, I would have to like do check-ins and like make sure I'm not getting in trouble. He would follow, you know, follow up with me. And while we're doing this deal and I was like, and you know, he's like, this is gonna be a rocket ship for you. You're gonna be the next big thing. And I was like, okay, amazing. And the, oh, that's what it was. The merger between UPN and Warner Brothers happened at the same time, creating the CW. And the president of UPN took over and he looks at the slate of, of shows they're developing and he's like, who the hell is this guy with no resume? Getting his own show and they're like, well, we looked and his episode did well and he's great and people liked him. Like, nope. We're starting from scratch.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  They hanged it and, and, and just long, long story short, they ended up coming back actually at one point because they couldn't find anybody else. And then Justin Hartley came, became free. He, he left passions and was free and they were like, oh, that guy. And I love Justin and I'm happy he got to do that. Um, but, uh, but losing what felt like a sure thing. That lesson that like until you're in front of the camera and even then, sometimes they're issue, you know, but like until it's done and in the can and in front of audiences, like it's nothing is a sure thing in this business. I learned to hold so loosely to every opportunity that came to where I would never get too excited, you know?

• 37:57Speaker 02

  There's, uh, there's a great quote, like, you know, the, um, the, the best three words that we can learn are is that so? Right? And so with the good stuff, oh, is that so? With the bad stuff? Is that so?

• 38:09Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  And there's a real power in that. And that's really kind of been my attitude to the whole thing, you know, like, oh, like, you know, I want to do this sequel. We're at theatrical release. Okay. Is that so? And it just helps me navigate this business in a more grounded way. And I learned that right out of the gate with a real tough loss.

• 38:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, the, I guess, the other, not to just obsess over the bumps. We can talk about the bumps because you're succeeding so much now. But the other, is that so question to yourself must have been the Thor experience, which you've talked about, but like,

• 38:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:43Josh Horowitz?

  auditioning for Thor and just kind of.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  That was lesson, is that so moment? I got a, I got terrible feedback. It was constructive in the sense that the casting director felt like I was such a sure thing. If I just had the craft, as, as she put it, and I didn't show up that day ready. And I, I was, it was less is that so and more, this is never going to happen again. And sometimes we need that. And, uh, you know, the question is like, is our ego going to get in the way? And like, who dare, they, they don't understand me. They don't understand my art, you know, like you could have, well, I could have said anything, but I was like, I'm never going to let that happen again. And I took a step back from the business to learn what the craft means. And man, am I better for it? And is my work better for it? So I'm grateful for that, um, that tough day.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  But yeah, sometimes you just, it's more about buckling down and being willing to, um, humble yourself and, and learn what you don't know.

• 39:35Josh Horowitz?

  You've obviously, I mean, between that and Titans, et cetera, you've been associated with different superhero things over the years. And you know, I have to bring up, I've talked to James about this. James Gunn is a very big fan of yours, as you well know.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  James Gunn, and I have spoken a lot.

• 39:49Josh Horowitz?

  So let's just set the record straight. Is there a world where you're playing Batman or is it something else? Or what's, what, what, where do I put my money right now, Alan?

• 39:59Speaker 02

  There's so much to unpack here that you don't even know. You don't know what you're asking for.

• 40:11Speaker 02

  I, I, um.

• 40:14Josh Horowitz?

  Speaks volumes. The most loquacious man I've ever had on the podcast has no words.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  I, I really respect James. I would like to do something with James. James would like to do something with me.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  But it's got, but it's, um, my litmus test for what I will take is strict. I pick the shit out of projects. I know how to develop a project and, um, anything I do with DC will still meet my standards, right? It will have to meet my standards and, um, and I hope that we work, uh, I hope that we work, uh, on something that feels like we're all making this movie that I would, you know, be proud of.

• 41:05Josh Horowitz?

  It sounds like you want, and this is no surprise, you want a seat at the table of that creative process of whatever you potentially do.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  If it would help, yeah.

• 41:13Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 41:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, um, there, there could be a bright future for us. Um, and there have been a lot of conversations.

• 41:20Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have a character in mind that you're not going to tell me today?

• 41:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 41:24Josh Horowitz?

  And it's not Batman?

• 41:25Speaker 02

  Uh, look, the future is bright and the horizons are broad and anything is possible for any of us, you know? Uh, do you have a future in mind for yourself that, uh, is different than the one that you're, you're?

• 41:40Josh Horowitz?

  I'm open to all possibilities.

• 41:41Speaker 02

  What would you, what would your dream role be in the world?

• 41:45Josh Horowitz?

  Getting you to answer the question?

• 41:49Speaker 02

  So detective.

• 41:57Speaker 05

  Reality TV is messy.

• 41:59Speaker 06

  Pop culture is louder than ever.

• 42:01Speaker 05

  And the internet.

• 42:02Speaker 06

  Completely unhinged.

• 42:04Speaker 05

  Welcome to Roxanne.

• 42:05Speaker 06

  And Chantel.

• 42:06Speaker 05

  The podcast where cousins Roxanne and Chantel break down reality TV, celebrity drama and the stories everyone's texting about.

• 42:13Speaker 06

  We recap the shows.

• 42:15Speaker 05

  Spill the headlines.

• 42:16Speaker 06

  And sit down with the stars themselves.

• 42:18Speaker 05

  No filter.

• 42:19Speaker 06

  No boring takes.

• 42:21Speaker 05

  Just the tea.

• 42:22Speaker 06

  New episodes every week.

• 42:24Speaker 05

  If it's trending.

• 42:25Speaker 06

  We're talking about it.

• 42:26Speaker 05

  This is Roxanne.

• 42:27Speaker 06

  And Chantel.

• 42:28Speaker 05

  Let's get into it.

• 42:31Speaker 06

  Hi listeners.

• 42:32Speaker 07

  I want to tell you about a podcast we love. It's called Rebel Girls, formerly known as Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls. It's about real life women who are changing the world with their courage, creativity, and big, bold ideas. Want to know how Taylor Swift became a superstar? Or hear how Simone Biles became the greatest athlete of all time? From immersive stories to heartfelt interviews to super smart advice, Rebel Girls brings you stories that will get you fired up to become your best self. There are over 400 episodes for you to explore with new episodes every week. So check it out. Listen to Rebel Girls wherever you get your podcasts and find us on youtube.com/rebelgirls.

• 43:16Speaker 07

  And whatever you do, stay rebel.

• 43:26Josh Horowitz?

  Let's tease a little bit Reacher because we're getting the new season very soon, next month.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  Right, August 12th, season four. I'll just go ahead and say it. This is the best season we've ever had.

• 43:34Josh Horowitz?

  That's, those are big words.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  Pretty plain and simple. You are going to enjoy this more than any other season.

• 43:40Josh Horowitz?

  By what standards?

• 43:41Speaker 02

  It's just so satisfying. It's, it feels so authentic to the journeys that most of the books take, the most beloved books. It is, the twists and turns that it takes and the violence is like next level. It's just all so heightened and fun. I think it's the best of what Reacher has to offer.

• 44:04Josh Horowitz?

  How long term? As we well know, there are many Reacher books.

• 44:07Speaker 02

  A lot of books, yeah.

• 44:08Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have in your own mind like how long you want to go with this character?

• 44:11Speaker 02

  I, yeah, I mean, look, who knows? You know, who knows what demands will be placed on my career? What Amazon will want to do? What audiences will continue to show up for? I mean, really, at the end of the day, the audience will decide.

• 44:24Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 44:26Speaker 02

  I think, I suspect, and I could be wrong about this, but I think we will have.

• 44:32Speaker 02

  Because season three was so effective, it was such a great season and so many people tuned in for it to to know that like, oh, three seasons in, they're still sending it like full send. Um, four goes even further. Four is even better. I think those audience, I think the audience will show up and we'll grow. I think we'll grow season four. And I think if we do, that's going to sort of like really, um, probably educate us on, on, on what our future looks like. But I always felt like, like in my head, I was just like, I'd love to get to 10. It just seems like a really cool number and it would honor everybody, the audience that supported it, Amazon and the work that they did to make this thing what it is. And, um, Lee and his work and all, you know, all that, that it'd just be like

• 45:15Speaker 02

  a good, you know, then you'd have a lot of, just, you know, for generations, people can just enjoy the journey of Reacher, which is like an exciting one.

• 45:23Josh Horowitz?

  Is there a piece of physicality, a stunt you read in the script that you dread at this point? I mean, you're, you're pretty game. It sounds like you're down, but.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  I'm down for all of it. I feel like indebted to the audience. In every project I do, my goal is to help the audience feel like they got their money's worth. And what that means for me is I'm doing the stunts. So, you know, I've had to get over a lot of those fears of like, this could kill me. And I'm not sure what's about to happen, but like, I don't know, if I die like doing a stunt, like, man, I died doing what I love. You just have to know that.

• 45:59Josh Horowitz?

  No, Alan.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  You just have to know that. And also my, there would be a huge insurance payout. My wife, I think, is hoping I die in a stunt. She would get so rich, you don't even, she'd be like, this is better than eight more seasons of Reacher.

• 46:11Josh Horowitz?

  I'm your publicist now. Stop.

• 46:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. Her nails, now her nail, her fingers are down to the knuckle. Like just, just, got him up. Um, so look, I, yeah, but I, but you know, so far, like, I do get hurt all the time and I don't stop because I can't stop, right? Because I booked my schedule out a year in advance and I, there's no days off between projects. And so it's scary for studios because they're like, we finish him on a Saturday morning and he needs to be in a different country by Monday shooting. There was no prep. He was doing, sending measurements for wardrobe. He's going to land and start shooting, right? And so if I get hurt or injured, like it is. That is my biggest fear in this business that because I'm so busy that I do a disservice to some other group of people who want to work. And you know, so far I've been very lucky

• 46:56Speaker 02

  that I'm able to keep going. A part of that is due to having a great team around me, experience, but like, oh, there's a lot of luck in that, that I haven't been that injured. I broke my back twice last year on two different projects and people don't have, people have no idea. I had to keep going and I like, and I'm glad I did, you know, but so it does get hard sometimes and my body feels like it's been put through a food processor, you know, like it's like in the disposal most of the time. But to me, that's the cost of doing business to honor an audience who has so much choice and deserves greatness for parting with their hard earned

• 47:38Speaker 02

  money. It's harder than ever to make money. Look at inflation, look at dollars, the minimum wage from these fucking assholes who won't fucking, 725? Get me back on the politics conversation. I'm gonna fucking whip these guys ass in, right in the middle of Congress, a fucking backhand, some idiot who thinks it's a bad idea to give a mom working at Waffle House more than 725 an hour trying to feed her kids. You know what I mean? Like, are you, what kind of monster are you? You're the devil. If you think, if you're gonna vote against that, you're the devil. Like, anyway, I recognize, man, it's hard to make money and money's not worth much these days. And so if you're gonna part, you're ever gonna have a subscription to a streaming platform,

• 48:21Speaker 02

  or you're gonna come to the movie theater to see Motor City, which you're gonna do on July 24th, because it is worth the price of admission and I know how hard it is to make money these days, like, you better know that you got my best. And I'm gonna give it to you every time.

• 48:37Josh Horowitz?

  We appreciate you putting your body on the line, but be safe, man.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  Like I said, then Andrew, dude, my wife is disagreeing with you.

• 48:46Speaker 02

  Don't, yeah, please encourage him to do stunts. As we wrap up, what the hell is going on with Fast X, Fast 11, Fast 12? That's a great question. Yeah, Ben is like, send another press release out and let him know that we're shooting now. I mean, this man is the key man of fester of our lifetime. This man just like puts stuff into the universe and suddenly it happens. Do you know anything? I do. I know, I know a lot. We have conversations all the time. I mean, it's, I'm, you know, a big part of those conversations, but. There's just a lot, there's a lot of obstacles, so you know, um, it's, it's, it's expensive to make that. It's too expensive to make those shows. It doesn't make a ton of sense. There's a more efficient way to shoot those shows.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  Excuse me. And so, uh, there has to be a way to show restraint while also honoring the fact that this world has expanded to something humongous. That gets very difficult. We're, now we're at the crossroads of something very hard to figure out.

• 49:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:42Speaker 02

  And, you know, everybody's figuring it out.

• 49:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:44Speaker 02

  Um, but, uh, yeah, I think there's gonna be another one. I think it's gonna be great. And, uh, it's just a matter of, of solving some big problems, very real problems.

• 49:54Josh Horowitz?

  Um, we end every happy second fuse with the profoundly random questions, Alan. You ready for these?

• 49:58Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 49:59Josh Horowitz?

  Don't worry. This is not, this is not gonna be the part that gets you in trouble.

• 50:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I think, yeah, I just, well, talk to me after.

• 50:07Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, dogs or cats?

• 50:08Speaker 02

  Oh, dogs.

• 50:09Josh Horowitz?

  Big time?

• 50:09Speaker 02

  Easy.

• 50:10Josh Horowitz?

  I need to get you on my dog show, Alan. You know I have a dog show.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  I'm in, dude. I was a dog trainer. I used to train Belgian Malinois. At least canine, yes. If I wasn't an actor, that is what I would do. I was good at that.

• 50:21Josh Horowitz?

  All right, we'll talk in your abundant free time.

• 50:22Speaker 02

  I love dogs. Strong hand, strong hand.

• 50:25Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect?

• 50:27Speaker 02

  Uh, cars.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  Don't tell anybody. Um, I, yeah, and watches. Um, oh, look at this Grubaforcey. Oh my God, do you know what this is, dude? This is, it's like having a galaxy on your wrist. Look at the movement. This is artistry. Do people even know, when you make a watch like this, there's no battery. The tension of the machinery itself keeps perfect time in perpetuity if you continue to wear it. It's self-whining. That is, can you? Could you have figured that out? If you go like, I wanna keep time forever with just metal gears turning on themselves.

• 50:58Josh Horowitz?

  There's not enough time in the universe for me to figure that out.

• 51:00Speaker 02

  No, and it's, and it's beautiful and like the shape of the glass, like it's just, uh, anyway, it's like a work of art. I love, anyway. That's, um, that's not a rapid fire answer.

• 51:09Josh Horowitz?

  Favorite video game of all time?

• 51:11Speaker 02

  Call it, Call of Duty.

• 51:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm a Call of Duty player. I love that.

• 51:14Josh Horowitz?

  Where are they at on the Call of Duty movie? What's going on?

• 51:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's interesting, too.

• 51:19Josh Horowitz?

  They've come calling. They've come calling.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  It's, um, you know, the video game adaptations scare me a little bit, honestly, because so few work. So few work. I think the ones that work are the ones that are made directly for kids. Minecraft is a good example. If you make it for for kids, the kids first, or it's fun and self-deprecating or whatever in that way, or self-aware, I should say. Um, they tend to work, but ones that take themselves too seriously.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  It has to know what it is and has to be ready to have a good time.

• 51:47Josh Horowitz?

  That sounds like a very big maybe on you joining Call of Duty.

• 51:49Speaker 02

  No, I don't. I do love Call of Duty. Man, if the story's right. I would want to put, I want those, I want the zombies in Call of Duty. You put zombies in Call of Duty? You know how unexpected it is that it's supernatural? Like, this is the best part of the game.

• 52:00Josh Horowitz?

  Add zombies to anything.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  We play zombies all day long, you know, if you know, you know.

• 52:04Josh Horowitz?

  Um, the Dakota Johnson memorial question she asked me, I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt, Alan?

• 52:11Speaker 02

  A mouthful of bees?

• 52:14Speaker 02

  I don't want anything in my butt.

• 52:17Josh Horowitz?

  I'm not gonna do it to you. It's okay. Don't worry.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  I don't mind if other people want bees or big things in their butt, but I just don't, I'm not, I don't like things in my butts.

• 52:25Josh Horowitz?

  That's fine. Personal preference.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Why did she get to invent a question? And why is it that one?

• 52:29Josh Horowitz?

  It's a great question to ask of her. You're right. Okay, so a mouthful. Um, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 52:36Speaker 02

  Um, it's of my, uh, it's of my kids.

• 52:40Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  Can I, can I see it? It's, it's in front of the Statue of Liberty.

• 52:45Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah, they're there. Yeah, yeah.

• 52:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:47Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, boy. Uh, last actor you were mistaken for?

• 52:50Speaker 02

  John Cena. I get it all the time. What do you mean, no? You disagree with that? I get that a thousand times a day. People go, John, John can I have a picture? Oh, yeah, you can have a picture with John Cena. Sure. Come on over.

• 53:05Josh Horowitz?

  You get the can't see me jokes and they're like, no, it's not, it's not.

• 53:08Speaker 02

  I actually, you know, John is like one of the nicest people I've ever met in my entire life, so I'm, I'm flattered and honored to be confused with John. I'm like, I ain't as nice as him, dude. You don't know who you're talking to.

• 53:18Josh Horowitz?

  I think you're gonna give a good one to this. The worst noted director has ever given you. I can only imagine.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  By the time the lines get to you, they're baked crispy hard. Shut up and say the fucking line.

• 53:30Josh Horowitz?

  What?

• 53:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:34Josh Horowitz?

  Any context you want to deliver to that?

• 53:37Speaker 02

  I challenge everything. I my my role in life is to stress test ideas so that we we sure we're sure that we land on the best one. And by the way, this is a blueprint bitch. We didn't shoot the script. We're shooting it now. Like, we're not. This is not a facsimile. We're not faxing this shit to people's houses. Like, what? Like, let's see if we can improve it. And also, what are we shooting on film? You've got infinite takes. You want to know? I'll give you $30 for another SD card, homie. Like, let's just try a couple of things.

• 54:08Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, in the spirit of Happy Second Fused, who's an actor who always makes you happy, you see them on screen.

• 54:13Speaker 02

  Oh, well, we talked about Jim Carrey, but Jim Carrey is my hero.

• 54:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, he's doing a Grinch sequel. It's time, Alan.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  I know. I was talking to Brian Grazer about that because I am gonna be I'm manifesting this. This is nobody else knows this, but I'm gonna be the Grinch's grosser, fartier, belchier cousin who he who's who crashes in the Grinch's lair and the Grinch wants him out because he's like overstayed his welcome. And I just anyway, this is my pitch to Brian.

• 54:37Josh Horowitz?

  How'd that go over? Did he?

• 54:38Speaker 02

  He he well, he's he's he's lovely. He's like, yeah, we're gonna make this happen, you know. I don't think with me involved, but.

• 54:46Josh Horowitz?

  No, we're manifesting. It's happening.

• 54:47Speaker 02

  Somebody funny. Maybe Zach Galifianakis. Like, I pitched the idea and then Zach gets the role.

• 54:51Josh Horowitz?

  You guys always go for the same roles.

• 54:53Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly.

• 54:54Josh Horowitz?

  He would have been a great reacher, to be all to be honest.

• 54:57Speaker 02

  He probably would, actually.

• 54:59Josh Horowitz?

  Movie that makes you sad?

• 55:01Speaker 02

  Oh, well, I don't know if sad is the right. I don't. This is an old movie, but I've never cried more in a movie than The Notebook.

• 55:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  That made me cry. But it was like happy tears. Like, I want a life of I want a lifelong love like that, you know?

• 55:18Josh Horowitz?

  And a food that makes you confused. You don't get it.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  Um, I think most things with hot sauce on it.

• 55:23Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, you're not.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  Like, did you want to taste just hot sauce? Because as soon as you touch a drop or two of that, it's the only thing you're tasting. We could have corn or we could have chocolate cake. And if you put hot sauce on it, it tastes like hot sauce. I kind of don't always get why people do that.

• 55:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right. So no, no hot ones for you?

• 55:40Speaker 02

  I if I don't do hot ones before I die in a stunt, I'm gonna lose my mind.

• 55:46Josh Horowitz?

  So you do want to do it. You want to challenge yourself.

• 55:48Speaker 02

  Yes, I'm gonna do it. I want to eat the bones. I want to finish the bones, just to show people like how tough I am. I'll be the first one to eat all the bones. See, there's gonna be nothing left.

• 55:58Josh Horowitz?

  No one's doubting your toughness. You don't need to do this for us, but do you.

• 56:01Speaker 02

  Maybe I still have insecurities from my childhood.

• 56:04Josh Horowitz?

  That's the next podcast. We'll go back.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 56:06Josh Horowitz?

  Dude, always a pleasure. I appreciate you for so many reasons. Congratulations. Motor City kicks ass. It's awesome.

• 56:12Speaker 02

  Please go see this movie. I've never asked for anything. I usually just slap up the key art and like, fingers crossed, but like this one, I want you to see. It's an experience you'll never forget.

• 56:22Josh Horowitz?

  It is unique in all the best possible ways. Check it out, July 24th. Alan, thanks.

• 56:27Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't supposed to do this by Josh.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  Steve Cubine and Nan McNamara's podcast from beneath the Hollywood sign.

• 56:52Speaker 07

  Mary Astor has been keeping a diary.

• 56:54Josh Horowitz?

  Mary writes everything down.

• 56:56Speaker 07

  And so this torrid affair with George S. Kaufman is chronicled on a daily basis.

• 57:01Josh Horowitz?

  In great detail. And I pulls out a box and gives McAllister a ring saying, here's something to remember me by. This article caused Daryl Zanuck to hit the roof.

• 57:13Speaker 07

  Actress Ruth Roman followed that up with playing a foil to Betty Davis in Beyond the Force. I mean, if you can stand toe to toe with her.

• 57:20Josh Horowitz?

  And she does because she plays the daughter of the man that Betty Davis kills out on the hunting trip.

• 57:27Speaker 07

  And it's directed by King Vidor, so he's no slouch.

• 57:30Josh Horowitz?

  Speaking of the Oscars, talking about what I call beginner's luck, the actors and actresses who won an Oscar on their very first film.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Get your fix of old Hollywood from Stephen Ann on the podcast from beneath the Hollywood sign.