Sam Reid

Sam Reid is letting his hair down metaphorically and literally. On THE VAMPIRE LESTAT as he embraces his inner rocker and in this rare extended chat with Josh about his career-changing role, the roles that got away, and more. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 6/16 -- Matt Smith in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

  The last person I was mistaken for was literally at the airport by all of these autograph hunters. And I felt terrible. I was like, I guess it was Hayden Christensen. And they had all of these pictures of Hayden Christensen. They're like, hey, and I was like, and they're smashing on the car window, like pulling over. And I was like, oh, this is so embarrassing. I was like, I'm not, should I just warn the thing? I was like, I'm not Hayden Christensen. And I felt so bad for Hayden Christensen. Like, that was extreme.

• 0:54Josh Horowitz?

  Star Wars fans.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like, that was horrendous.

• 0:57Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

• 1:05Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, first time guest, Sam Reid. That's right, the Vampire Lestat is in the house. This is a great conversation about this amazing show, his fantastic career, and a rare deep dive with Sam talking all things Vampire Lestat. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. Remember to hit that subscribe button on YouTube, on Spotify, however you're enjoying it. I appreciate you, guys. Before we get to Sam today, quick reminders, as always, check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happysadconfused. You get early access, you get bonus content, you get access to our live events. We've got some good ones coming up in June, including Matt Smith is coming up. He's always a delight. He's going to be at the 92nd Street Y with me.

• 1:49Josh Horowitz?

  We have another very, very, very big one coming up. A young lady who's never done the podcast before, and I cannot say who it is, but you will want to be there for that one. On Patreon, you'll get the first, uh, first dibs on that and discount codes and all that kind of fun stuff. Okay, so main event today is Sam Reid. If you have watched Interview with the Vampire, you know why. I desperately wanted to have Sam on the show. He is so fantastic. He owns this role as Lestat. The new season, the third season, has a title change because they are now adapting Anne Rice's classic book, The Vampire Lestat. And if you know that book, you know this is a different kind of Lestat. He is in rocker mode and Sam more than delivers. He is performing throughout the season.

• 2:33Josh Horowitz?

  I've seen six episodes. It's fantastic. As we tape this, he was about to perform live at the show's premiere in New York City. A man of many talents. And like I said, this, he really hasn't done many of these kind of long form conversations. So this was a fun excuse to do a, a deep dive into his background, the near misses that came before Interview with the Vampire, his collaboration with all the folks at the show, including of course Jacob Anderson, Louis on the show. If you love the show, I think you're gonna dig this conversation with Sam. So without any further ado, please enjoy me and Sam Reid. Sam, you're doing the podcast.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  I am.

• 3:10Josh Horowitz?

  You ready?

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm ready.

• 3:11Josh Horowitz?

  It's good to see you, man.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, you too. Great. Good. I've been doing a lot of traveling.

• 3:15Josh Horowitz?

  That's good. It's been, yeah, it's been a minute since you wrapped, what, last October, what, Lestat, like?

• 3:21Speaker 01

  We wrapped, when did we wrap? Yeah, wrapped filming in October, but then I went to, I stayed around and did a lot of ADR first. Cause there's a lot of voice, so I stuck around. And then we went, went to LA to finish the album.

• 3:35Josh Horowitz?

  That's not something, it's not a sentence you usually say when you're doing a series. Then we had to finish the album.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:43Josh Horowitz?

  Crazy.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a crazy experience. Um, yeah. Yeah. So I didn't really finish until Christmas time.

• 3:49Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. Okay. So we're gonna dig into all of it. Obviously, folks know your work and, and the new season, now dubbed The Vampire Lestat. Very appropriate that you're front and center with me today. We've talked before, we've never done the one on one.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  No, yeah.

• 4:02Josh Horowitz?

  I've been wanting to do this for a while.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  This long.

• 4:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. And you don't, you know, I did my research. You don't do a ton of this kind of thing, do you? Thank you for the trust in you, Sam. Are you one of these like annoyingly like charismatic people that's also shy at the same time?

• 4:16Speaker 01

  I mean shy is like a strong, I say shy. I mean, I, I think, I think also I'm just like, I, I, I don't, I don't like being the center of attention.

• 4:24Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  I don't, I ha, I feel like I'm often the center of attention at work, but that's because that's like, there's a, you know, a structure around it. But uh, yeah, I get a bit sick of that, talking about myself or, you know.

• 4:36Josh Horowitz?

  Hopefully about forty five minutes is your cap.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:38Josh Horowitz?

  And then you can vomit or do whatever you need to do. Were you a shy kid? Like, did it?

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was a very quiet kid. Yeah, I have very, very, always very quiet, but um, but I had like this other, other side of me, which was like acting and like this big outlet. And I was very really into that. So I'd be very quiet and shy. Um, shy, I'd be quiet.

• 4:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Um, uh, but not, but then, you know, very loud when I wanted to be, you know? So I ca, you know, I guess that's the kind of thing is you can kind of balance it out. Um, where, you know, I, I probably do have a lot of like, uh, that feeling where, you know, I get exhausted by talking to multiple people.

• 5:17Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  For a long time. So I sometimes need to just go home and like stare at a wall till I come down from that.

• 5:23Josh Horowitz?

  No, I get, I mean, I tend to see you at these Comic Cons, right? It's Andy, a Comic Con. I don't know about you. I mean, we're, we're kind of like flip sides of the same coin, right? Like I'm moderating things, you're in the middle of the, the craziness. I always am like so spent after that, just like emotionally exhausted. It's like, cause like, for me, I don't know, you know, for, I don't know about for you, but like, it's, it's kind of like twenty percent extra of me when I'm doing this, when I'm doing anything.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:47Josh Horowitz?

  And then I need to kind of like go back into.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, the Comic Con is its own like beast. I mean, it's insanity. It's, it is kind of fun. I think I, I do really enjoy the Comic Cons. I, I, I find them to be like such a wild vibe and like a really intense energy, but uh, yeah, you do need the time to come down.

• 6:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Have you ever had anything akin to stage fright? I mean, you've obviously done theater, done a lot of TV and film. You're now a rock god. Um, the stage fright ever kind of like.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I have stage fright, but I don't have like incapacitating stage fright. I think that stage fright is sort of normal. Um. But the thing is, like, doing live, I don't get stage fright when I'm filming. Like, I'm actively, like, I'm a bit disturbed if I feel nervous because, or at least if a character feels nervous and I feel nervous. And I'm like, okay, well, that's that's kind of useful. But if you feel nervous, like when you're filming, and that doesn't really relate to the scene that you're doing. It's like, why would this character feel nervous? It's a bit discombobulating. So I actively, like, don't, and I don't really know how I can avoid it.

• 6:52Josh Horowitz?

  Mind over matter, just like, I'm acting like I'm relaxed, so I'll be relaxed.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I was definitely in my first film. I remember being like terrified and and and a couple of times I remember like filming things, you know, where I was like working with a director who I really admired. And we're just being so terrified and that wasn't very valuable to me or the director, as it turns out. But um, but doing live things, yeah, there's like an element to which you don't really know how it's gonna go.

• 7:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Um, which is, which is scary, but it's also you kind of feed off those those nerves, I think. Yeah.

• 7:25Josh Horowitz?

  So that, okay, that segue is well into, we've kind of hinted at this. So like, this season is fantastic. I was telling you before, I've seen this for six episodes. This is something that people have been very anxious, probably since Interview with the Vampire was greenlit as a series, hoping it would go there. It has gone there.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:40Josh Horowitz?

  Um, I guess my first question is like, when you signed on way back when, like, I guess, four or five years ago, was this talked about as eventually we'll hopefully get to?

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, we were supposed to do this book, season two. Um, and then, and then really just before we started, like a couple of weeks before we started shooting season one, Roland was like, we can't, we we can't do it like, you know, based on the budget and stuff, we're gonna have to split it into. Um, so, so, you know, it's like, okay, that's fine. So we'll split the season in two. And I thought it was much better for it because we got so much more like depth and all the stuff in Paris. Like, you got to explore Armand in so much more detail. I I'm much, I thought it was a much better decision. Um, but yeah, we were always gonna go down this route with Lestat. And we was always gonna.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  He was gonna have, he was always gonna be a music guy. I think early on Roland was more interested in him being more of a classical musician.

• 8:37Josh Horowitz?

  How interesting.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  But that did develop into a, you know, a rock star, not, not right away, but you know, maybe a year in.

• 8:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So they obviously, when they were auditioning you, I mean, you had a background, you'd done musicals.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  There's no conversation about me singing or anything like that.

• 8:52Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 8:53Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 8:53Josh Horowitz?

  That's kind of a big leap then, like, oh, let's check the resume. He can sing.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  But then, to be honest, I think it's more about Daniel Hart than it was about me. I think it was always gonna be Daniel Hart was going to be, you know, writing these songs and, and he. I remember in season one, he was like, can you send me a recording of you singing like on your, just on your phone? Can you just send me like anything? And I can't remember what I sang. I sang some random song, but I was like trying to, to show him like my range and like where we could like sing. Um, you know, and then when I got to New Orleans, like, because I was gonna do, because of the, the scene where Lestat kills the opera singer, like, you know, and I had to learn this opera song. The first thing I did for this show was opera classes.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  So they put me in opera classes. So like I had always been singing. So I don't think anyone would be like, he can't, he really can't do it. So you might have to, so, but, but it was never really a conversation. I don't think they were expecting to be this many songs.

• 9:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:53Josh Horowitz?

  So what was your, what was your musical theater background growing up? Were you always doing musical theater? Were you seeing shows? Like, what was your interests?

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, musical theater. I mean, um.

• 10:03Josh Horowitz?

  Or rock concerts or anything?

• 10:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, like, I, I mean, I loved going to festivals. We had a festival in Australia called Big Day Out, which was like the one that we went to as teenagers. Um, and then, yeah, like, you know, I would, I would go to a lot of music gigs. All my friends are musicians in Australia.

• 10:19Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Or growing up, they were, you know, and so, um, I was always the actor, which was kind of like the lame, the lame creative choice where everyone was just like cool rock star and we're called cool musicians with tattoos and.

• 10:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  And I was like, no, I must preserve myself for the potential to be anything. Um, so, yeah, I, I had a lot of experience with music and my, you know, I've got my cousin is a musician and yeah, there's been a lot of music around me. Um, and I did start singing lessons when I was about sixteen.

• 10:50Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Um, uh.

• 10:53Josh Horowitz?

  Just to add to the repertoire, like you want everything like.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  Why I I'm not really sure why I did that. I to be honest, or fully honest with you. I think I liked singing and I thought maybe my mom thought it'd be a good idea. I'm not really sure.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  And and then when I went to drama school, we did a lot of musical theatre. We did a lot of music. We did like lots of Sondheim projects and all of that kind of stuff.

• 11:18Josh Horowitz?

  Got it.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  And then and then I never really touched it again until I did a girl from the north country with Sheila, who's who's our Kasha, which is amazing. Yeah, and that's when I did that. And and then that was sort of like my big experience of

• 11:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  of singing for a year because it was like we did that show for a year.

• 11:38Josh Horowitz?

  That's intense.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:39Josh Horowitz?

  So favourites in the musical. So you said you did some Sondheim back in school. I mean, like.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  One of my favourites.

• 11:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  Gosh.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  Hmm. I mean, I don't know if I have that many favourite musicals.

• 11:55Josh Horowitz?

  Like, do you go see a movie musical? Like, have you do you see, like, The Wicked and the Mama Mia's?

• 11:59Speaker 01

  First, I saw First Wicked.

• 12:01Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  I don't really. I don't really actively seek them out. I like the old musicals. I like the old Hollywood musicals, you know, like, like Kiss Me Kate. Like, I love that one.

• 12:12Josh Horowitz?

  I'm a sucker for, like, Guys and Dolls, like the old, like, Brando, not a great singer, but still it's Brando.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  I did Guys and Dolls at drama school.

• 12:19Josh Horowitz?

  Did you? You were obviously.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  No.

• 12:22Josh Horowitz?

  No?

• 12:22Speaker 01

  I was not Sky Madison.

• 12:24Josh Horowitz?

  No. You were Nathan?

• 12:26Speaker 01

  No, I was.

• 12:29Josh Horowitz?

  You were not sit down, you're rocking the boat guy. You were not.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  I was I was I was Abernathy.

• 12:35Josh Horowitz?

  I was Abernathy at my college play in in not college, in a in camp.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 12:40Josh Horowitz?

  So we basically have the same career.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, there you go.

• 12:43Josh Horowitz?

  Follow the fold.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was it. Follow the fold and and keep your strong arms, whatever the song is. That one, yeah, which I really milked every time. I had came out like this is my song. I really milked it, which I thought was a little bit inappropriate because I turned in this like a love song that which sort of felt.

• 12:58Josh Horowitz?

  Doesn't feel right.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  Didn't feel right, but I just went there because I thought this is the only song that I get in the show.

• 13:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  At the time, but yeah.

• 13:05Josh Horowitz?

  Be a strange one for Lestat to do. Follow the fold. It has different meanings this time around.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  I feel like he could do anything if he wanted to. Yeah.

• 13:21Speaker 04

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• 13:50Speaker 05

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• 14:34Speaker 05

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• 14:51Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so talk to me a little bit about approaching this. I mean, there's so many layers to this we could dig into because you're not just singing, you're singing in character. You're singing in this character that you know and love and have like embraced. There's the physicality, there's the actual singing. I don't know, where do you begin? What's like the starting point?

• 15:09Speaker 01

  It's a good question and that's what I thought as well. I was like, how do you begin this? Like, what do I, what's he supposed to sound like? And Daniel set me up with Matthew Santos, who had continued to work throughout the whole show. He's the vocal coach. He's an incredible singer himself, a musician. And so Matthew started working with me very early on. Sort of looks like running the songs and like we've, you know, cause it's hard to, it's really hard to practice. I'm learning this, singing alone, because it's very hard to find an actual private space. In fact, in Toronto, in the hotel I was staying at, the, there were so many complaints because I was like belting

• 15:53Speaker 01

  in the hotel room. I mean, I was in a- Not about the quality of the singing, just your volume. Just about. And there were so many complaints, but production hid it from me until, right until I'd finished the last song and I were like, by the way, Sam. Everyone here hates you. Everybody on the floor. There's been constant complaints and we have just kind of like, It's hysterical. Dabbed it out and blocked it, blocked you from knowing that. I was so- Mortified. Mortified, mortified. But it hasn't, it has been really hard for me to like practise. I mean, I still practise at home. And even my neighbour the other day was like, you're getting so much better. I was like, fucking hell, this is so bad. You're padding the walls of your closet. It's so bad. This is so embarrassing. So anyways, great to be able to like practise with someone and I'd go into a studio with him in, in LA.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Uh, but really it was like trying to find, like, what does the start sound like? Like, what does he sing like? And Daniel and Matthew was like, just sing like you do, like you sing. I don't know how I even sing. Like how, how to do this. Um, and it just evolved, I think, over time. Yeah. It was really hard to find the context of the songs because I didn't know them at that time. So like, I was just learning the songs and they all felt really crazy to me because I didn't know what, I was like, what is going on in this scene? Like in this, um, but as the context came in. It started to make more sense and it definitely just it just became an extension of him like doing a monologue or something.

• 17:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, so I I I crowdsourced because obviously you have a lot of fans, the show has a lot of fans and some happy second fuse listeners sent some questions in. This is from Azara who wanted to note to the rock star aspect changed the way you inhabited him physically this season.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  I mean, yes and no, because like he he's always like a performer in a way. So it kind of like felt more like Lestat because I was like, oh, cool. And I've always tried to like put that rock star kind of performer.

• 17:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Into him from the beginning. But actually, it's sort of like, no, I think, but probably more what happened is that I I it's like you got to do the Lestat performance.

• 17:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  And so then I got to like, take it away because now like I was like, you know, providing that bit that we kind of really needed to see about Lestat so that I could do less of that outside of the.

• 18:08Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  The concerts. Yeah. So it kind of did change the way I did him, but not necessarily on stage.

• 18:14Josh Horowitz?

  Is it is it possible? I mean, I guess it's possible for any character like to be to go too big in a character, but it's kind of one of like the luxuries of like was thought is you can go pretty big.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm always feeling like I've gone too big. Like I'm always calling Roland like going like, hey, I I'm a little bit worried about this scene. He was like, no, no.

• 18:32Josh Horowitz?

  It calls for it. It makes sense.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  I mean, I always give an option where it's much more pulled back.

• 18:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Like I do.

• 18:38Josh Horowitz?

  I do have shades to future casting directors. I have I contain multitudes.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  And I always do. I mean, I always like a bit like this is the extreme version. This is maybe the instinct and then this is the one pulled back and Roland always goes for like at the opera version, which is.

• 18:52Josh Horowitz?

  The nature of the material.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. He has taught taught me to like, you know.

• 19:00Josh Horowitz?

  Release.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  And just give it away and just not not question it. Yeah.

• 19:04Josh Horowitz?

  Is it? Do you feel exposed when you're on a stage? You're like scantily dressed? You're in full rock star regalia? I mean, look, the nature of the show, you've done intimate scenes. That stuff is very exposing too. Is it? Is it in a way more exposing as exposing to do like an intimate scene versus like singing in front of a crowd?

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Um.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know if like I do find it exposing. I mean, I find, yeah, I don't know if I I like exposing. Sometimes it can be um like a lot because like you've got a lot of like strangers touching you and you know, like there's that can be like a you do sort of just you do shut down.

• 19:46Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Not in a in a traumatized way, just in a way that you're like, just do disassociate a little bit from the extremity of the situation.

• 19:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  But I don't necessarily feel like exposed. Um, you know, because it's the it's the job. I mean, the absurdity of it is like you're doing like a sex scene or nudity scene or like you're doing a concert and you're like, you don't have any clothes on. You're shooting it for like, you know, eight, 10 minute takes and then they call cut and then I go and put on a a shirt or like.

• 20:15Josh Horowitz?

  What's the point? You all just saw everything.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, a card again and we're like, but that that it's in between the takes, I think, the where it's like you're when it's off, then it's a bit like, well, this is unnecessary to like walk around.

• 20:27Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:28Josh Horowitz?

  Right. It's interesting because like, obviously, and this is a good question that someone sent in that I I wanted to get to because the nature of the show is so much about perspective and who's centered. Uh, LB says that, you know, was not spent two seasons being filtered through other people's um memories of him. Now we're moving into a start's own perspective. Did playing him change once you stopped asking how is Louis seeing him and started asking how does Listat see himself?

• 20:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, it did change. Yeah. I mean, it it did. I mean, mostly the the biggest thing for me, and I know I've said this a couple of times, but but it's true, is the biggest thing for me is like, like during the first seasons, wh- when it's real Lestat or like not a not a dream version of Lestat. Cause that dream character is it was totally different. But when it was like, you know, Lestat as how he's seen.

• 21:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  As himself, um, I knew that he felt remorse, regret, shame, um, questioned himself. You know, you know, felt like most of the normal breadth of kind of, you know, emotions that a a human like creature would feel, but but I also knew that that you would never see that.

• 21:42Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  So, um, that was sort of difficult as like to do. It was like sort of like you'd be like, I I know he's I know he's blown up here, but I'm but he is. He's also feeling a bit embarrassed about that or.

• 21:55Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  He's second guessing himself. Um, so the difference between this season was that I knew that you were going to be able to see that.

• 22:03Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  So, uh, yeah, it was sort of, it was more like he he he does have a lot more doubt. Um, than um, than than you necessarily saw him before. So, yeah, it did. It did change.

• 22:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:18Josh Horowitz?

  Talk to me a little bit about, I mean, we obviously always, the fans will love seeing you and Jacob and that relationship is so key. And on and off screen, it's important to you. You guys clearly are.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 22:27Josh Horowitz?

  Became fast friends and that relationship's been very important. Talk to me a little bit about like what it's like to be going on a journey like this, cause this is a very unique kind of experience.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  It's been really crazy.

• 22:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I mean, you've had a lot of experiences in your career, but no- nothing quite like this.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 22:40Josh Horowitz?

  He had gone through Game of Thrones, so he knew fandoms in that way, I guess.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 22:45Josh Horowitz?

  Was that valuable? Has that has that continued to be valuable to co- kind of have a cohort to go on the journey with?

• 22:50Speaker 01

  Totally. Yes, the best because you you you you have so much to relate to and and like little things that don't necessarily.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Like mean anything to anybody else, like you have a shared, like a very intense shared experience with someone, which is like so valuable. Like in anything in life, like it's like so nice to be able to share something with someone um so that we can like we do, you know, talk about it all. Yeah, it's been a weird, it's been a weird journey because um you know, it's uh ha- hard to fathom sometimes. Because for us, it's just like a jo- like it's not just a job, it's a bit of a lifestyle now, because it's like they're going on for so long and it is all consuming. But we just sort of go off and do our thing and um you know, like we love making the show.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  And then it has this whole other life that you sort of get glimpses into sometimes that are just sort of like.

• 23:49Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah, this is being seen by millions of people who are ta- tattooing themselves and.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, it can be very staggering, it can be very sort of shocking um and you know, like wonderful, but also like confusing. But I, the wild thing is, it's sort of always been set up in our show that that and and in the books too. It's like set up that that the the construct of the media, be whatever it is, exists out in the real world as well.

• 24:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  And this season, we like go into it even in a more extreme sense, like the meta levels of the way that it kind of like balances and so.

• 24:25Josh Horowitz?

  The making of Doc is fantastic.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, but even like, you know, because I mean, like Malloy sort of says in season one, he's talking about Claudia is like you put it out into the real world. You put Claudia out in the real world and they'll make it make make of her what what they want, which is, you know. Because it's such an incredible character written by Anne Rice and and then there she is in in season three in a um. Halloween costume, like a little kid's a dressing up as an, I mean, Armand and Louis too, but you sort of like, and that's that, that's what it feels like a little bit. I mean, for me, though, sometimes seeing people get dressed up as us is just such a trip. I love it so much. I love to see. I just love it.

• 25:03Josh Horowitz?

  How do you manage? I mean, I know enough from talking to you in the past that you you you you maintain a bit of a distance. You're not on social media as far as I know.

• 25:11Speaker 01

  No.

• 25:12Josh Horowitz?

  But you still like are aware clearly of what's going on.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  I mean, I mean, you try. I mean, like, look, I still like I'm tempted at times and look, you know, like it's I'm human. It's impossible to be that controlled. I'm pretty disciplined with it, though. I'm pretty good at like, that's enough, like, you know, and also I don't have accounts. So you're very limited, like, what you can see.

• 25:33Josh Horowitz?

  You're not working out there, are you?

• 25:34Speaker 01

  No, I don't have I don't have accounts, like, at physical accounts. So like Instagram, I can't see anything at all. Like Instagram, I get people will send me like in people get I get sent stuff all the time.

• 25:43Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  And like when you get sent a link to an Instagram page that you don't have an account to, you kind of get like this very stock standard

• 25:51Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  page. And if you click it, it goes, please sign in. So like, I can't see that one. So Instagram, Twitter, like I see more of because it can you can see more of that or X or whatever. But that's sort of insidious place that I don't. So, yeah, I mean, I see I see things, but but I think the benefit of of like having some boundaries with it is

• 26:17Speaker 01

  is that I like I still need to do my job.

• 26:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, so you don't want it to affect the work.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, you don't want to and it really can because sometimes you see like takes that are just like, watch, how did that? How did that become

• 26:31Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  a reality from this show? But that's, I mean, that's the point of it, you know?

• 26:36Josh Horowitz?

  It can overwhelm some shows. I mean, I've done so much with like these like intense fandoms for all these shows. Like, I've done so much with Stranger Things in recent years. And it's like, and it's great in some ways, like fandoms are amazing, but like it can sometimes overtake the narrative of what the creators and the actors even want to write about.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm grateful that Roland and Hannah don't really feel that pressure. In fact, actually, if anything, they do respond to it. They're very aware of of it. And they, you know, have writers' rooms where they discuss it all and they talk about it. And they they don't they don't write in like fan fiction. They write. In the concept or the universe in which the people who are watching it understand. So, you know, like, there's like all of that stuff with the um the Gen Z book.

• 27:21Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  You know, bookstore clerks who kind of like have all of this in and originally in the script. Um. That scene was much longer. All those those kids were they they had a much larger arc and they it was amazing like their dialogue was like. Completely incomprehensible because they're just talking about all of this really wild stuff. So they do they do like weave it in and and give reference to. To the audience, but um they don't let it take over. Cause I think really.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  People say they wanna see something and they really need to see something or this really needs to happen. So you don't. You don't really know what you'd need to see, what you wanna see until you've seen it. And then you're like, oh, wow. That's what I needed to see. So you kind of have to like when you're going on, you and working on it, you do have to like hold on to that. That that state of mind of being like, this might be confronting for somebody or like they might think they really. Want this character to go in a particular way, but I think once they see. What they've done and what choice they've made, I think they'll be happy. Yeah.

• 28:20Josh Horowitz?

  Since I since I wronged Jacob a couple of years ago at Comic Con and tried to have you talk smack about him, let me make it up to him now. Give me thirty seconds on what makes Jacob a great actor, a great screen partner.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. I mean.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  I mean, those that first season when we were working together. It it his load of work was so overwhelming. Like, I mean, it was such an intense. Amount. I mean, it was intense for both of us in terms of just like the pressure and the extremity and, you know, every time I would speak, it'd be like a fucking. Two pages. I remember Alan Taylor be like, oh, my god, just keep going, you keep going. But um but um. You know, Jacob like just had so much to do. I mean, it's just and and then those Dubai scenes were just gigantic. And he was not only incredibly talented and able to like, you know. Do all of the work, come to work incredibly prepared, like so prepared that it just be like you wouldn't even know how much work he had.

• 29:19Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  Um, uh, but he also like generates a environment. On set, which is incredibly inclusive and warm and friendly. And everyone comes to work and has a good time.

• 29:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  And um. I mean, that's like one of the best things that you can ask from, um, you know, scene partner and, you know, the leading actor. I mean, it's this kind of like to create that space on set that everyone feels welcome and everyone feels um, like they're able to try things out. Yeah, yeah, and it's a really, it's a really special um, skill that he has.

• 29:54Josh Horowitz?

  Is it true you guys had the screen test over, over Zoom initially?

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Everything.

• 29:58Josh Horowitz?

  Crazy.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  I didn't meet a single soul from this show until I turned up to start working on it.

• 30:05Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, screen tests generally suck anyway, like chemistry reads, even if you're in the same room. But I can only imagine, like, how do you sense chemistry over a computer screen?

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I don't really know if they did sense chemistry. Like, I mean, like a chemistry test, a lot of the time is like, what do these two people look like next to each other? You know, um, what, what does everybody think of this actor? Like when they incorporate the other actors into the conversation and people are talking, you know? I don't know if they're like, whoa, did you feel that? I don't, I don't really know if that's true. Um, I think, you know, like a lot is said about Jacob and my chemistry. But actually, the, the, the key to that chemistry is Roland Jones.

• 30:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  Because he is such, he's so fiercely protective over his material and who he casts. And I mean, obviously, we had, we've had um, Kero James as a casting director and Avi Kaufman from the first season. But amazing casting directors, but the, the way that Roland like does background checks.

• 31:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  On everybody, like he does.

• 31:08Josh Horowitz?

  The vibe check to make sure they fit in.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Massive vibe check, so there's no dickheads anywhere.

• 31:13Josh Horowitz?

  That's huge.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is disturbing because you're like, is it me? You know, because that's what I usually say, like, if you don't, but um, if you don't know who it is, then it must be you. But, but um, no, but he really, he does such a, he does such an amazing deep dive.

• 31:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  On everybody, every single person who's working on the show to make sure that there's no one there. Um, who would, you know, make things difficult. And, and that's like a big key to why Jacob and I got on so well is because, you know, like. We're actually very similar people, right? We, we, we come from very different parts of the world and have very different experiences. Although we do have a lot of like mutual friends in England because I spent time there. But, um, but yeah, I think it was like also that we instantly became friends.

• 31:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  Like instantly, I was like, wow, this is, I've just made a, I'm in my thirties and I've made a, like a best friend. This is a crazy thing to, to do. Cause you don't really do that, you know?

• 32:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, the list is closed for me. It's over.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Well, you might know, it's not too late. Does that, use us as an example, that it's not too late to find new friends.

• 32:16Josh Horowitz?

  You're my inspiration.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:18Josh Horowitz?

  More Happy, Say Confused coming up.

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• 33:43Josh Horowitz?

  Can we talk a little bit about your background because we've talked so much about this great show, but I mean, growing up, so you went to Lambda, that was kind of like where you really doubled down on this, obviously, you don't do that flippantly. Did you have kind of like a crop of actors? Like I did the math, I was like, Sam Claflin, was he there?

• 34:01Speaker 01

  He was a year above me, yeah.

• 34:02Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so you had some contemporaries that were kind of at similar points in careers early on?

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, no, Sam, Sam sort of had a skyrocketing moment. I can't remember what he did first, but he was a year above me, but he was, everyone sort of, I think he left to go and do-

• 34:20Josh Horowitz?

  Was Hunger Games the first big thing?

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Was it the Hunger Games that he went and left? I don't think he left to do the Hunger Games, it was a different thing. Anyway, but it was, he did a, he did a, it was like a ITV drama-

• 34:31Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Where he played a guy over multiple years, I think Jim Broadbent, I mean, sorry, sorry, Sam.

• 34:38Josh Horowitz?

  How dare you not know so much-

• 34:39Speaker 01

  But I love Sam, he's a wonderful guy.

• 34:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you've worked with him.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have worked with him, yeah, and he's been a good friend for many years, I haven't seen him in a long time, but, but yeah, he was a year above. You always, people would leave school to go and do a job, but if you left, you weren't allowed back.

• 34:54Josh Horowitz?

  Is Lambda one of those things where you can't take a professional job while you're in school? It's like, Julia, I'm here-

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Yes, they don't, they don't encourage it, yeah, you have to finish school, they don't feel like you're ready. But I got a job while I was still at school, but I was on a student visa, and for me to progress onto like a working visa in the UK, I had to get my degree in professional acting.

• 35:16Josh Horowitz?

  Which is like, professional actor.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so, I mean, the stock standard protocol, they would have, they would have kicked me out of school, which was, you know, you would have been kicked out with a celebration if you chose to do it. They didn't really look very highly upon you going to do a film.

• 35:33Josh Horowitz?

  Was this, was this anonymous, was this role name?

• 35:35Speaker 01

  Yes, anonymous, yeah. And so, they made me-

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Ask Roland Emmerich to give me a score, like a mark. So it could be part of my module.

• 35:49Josh Horowitz?

  What did you get from Roland?

• 35:50Speaker 01

  Well, I didn't, I could never ask him to give me a score. So my agent and I just made up a fake score. And we were like, let's not give me full marks. It's embarrassing. So I was like, I think we actually gave me pretty like average. Average marks.

• 36:04Josh Horowitz?

  And were you, I think you alluded to this earlier. I mean, what was that first experience like being on set? Was it a little bit of a culture shock, like working with a camera?

• 36:11Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I mean, my first scene was with Vanessa Redgrave.

• 36:15Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, my God.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. My very first ever scene as an actor, like being paid to be in, oh, no, I did like one episode of television when I was a kid. But, um, but, uh, yeah, it was opposite Vanessa Redgrave and, um, and she came up to me just beforehand and the scene was like, I burst, like the Earl of Essex like bursts into the room. And I can't remember, he's annoyed about something and he like runs, he like storms up to the queen and says something. I can't remember what it was, but, um, she came and it was these amazing sets and we're shooting in, in Berlin and it was just like, what the hell? Um, and, um, it was very overwhelming, the whole thing. And also at that time, and they've stopped doing it now, but that time, the way they would put makeup on you was with an airbrush.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  And so like, I'd be like, like this kind of thing in the mornings. And it would be like so thick, you'd have so much makeup on and it just, everything felt very extreme. I had this weird wig on, um, and, um, and, and I was in this like amazing costume. I could barely walk in it with all this like armor, this like plastic armor and everything was. And Vanessa Redgrave came up to me, she's like, I've had, this is your first day as a, as an actor. And I was like, yeah. She's like, are you nervous? And I was like, yeah, yeah.

• 37:30Josh Horowitz?

  Cause you're Vanessa Redgrave.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  And she was like, I'm really nervous too. Which was so sweet. It was so lovely. Um, yeah. And that actually did, did calm me down. And, and, um, and I, and I, you know, was so green that I was like storming in, but like full of like, you know, storming in, storming in, that I kept walking past the camera.

• 37:51Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  You know, and Roland was like, you know, Sam, you're doing great, but you're, you keep walking past. You've got, you've got to stay in front of the camera, you're going to stay in the frame. He was like, but don't, don't ever change your enthusiasm.

• 38:04Josh Horowitz?

  You're so sweet. Keep it going.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  This is great. Your enthusiasm is great, but like no to stay in that in shot. Yeah.

• 38:10Josh Horowitz?

  So when you look at like the 2010s, you're working and Bell's a big film for you. 71, it's a great cast in there. Like, are you also kind of like, are there near misses? I mean, again, you're a jobbing actor.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  So many misses. Yeah. So many. Oh, so many misses.

• 38:25Josh Horowitz?

  Like, is there one or two that jump out of like, oh, this is going to be the one that's going to change my career. I'm in the top two or three and it feels like it almost happened. Um, like, what were you going up for?

• 38:34Speaker 01

  I mean, I mean, oh, you mean that I missed? That I didn't get?

• 38:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh.

• 38:40Josh Horowitz?

  Let's, let's really mind the psychology, the, the.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I have, I've had a lot of projects collapse, like to not go ahead, which I think was like quite brutal, particularly in my twenties. It was pretty hard because you'd commit to, like, you'd work so hard to get. So, I mean, like, I remember I screen tested for Terminator, um, and the Guy Courtney got.

• 39:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  For Alan Taylor, who directed the first episode of Interview with the Vampire.

• 39:05Josh Horowitz?

  For Sarah.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  Um, um, and that was, I mean, I think all my agents were really excited about it. I was a bit like, I don't know if this is the, if this is my film. I don't really think this is right for me.

• 39:20Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Um, you know, and it wasn't, so that's fine.

• 39:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  So I didn't, that one didn't feel like a, like a life-changing experience. The ones that, that, that, that did kind of, because you, I mean, like, God, I, when I was in my twenties out of drama school and like jobbing and I might be going for, you know, I had a rule with my agents. I think it's very different now. Um, there's not as much stuff getting made. I ruled with my agents. I would like do one, could only do one audition a day.

• 39:46Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  If you think back, I was like doing like five auditions a week. You'd just be like, and I was living in a, in a, a share house with my friends from drama school and, and Harry Melling, who's like, you know, extraordinary actor, one of my best friends, you know, Simon Manjondo, Laura Rossi, Harriet Kemsley, who's like turned into this amazing, um, stand-up comedian. Um, I think she's just like one, anyway, um. Uh, so.

• 40:08Josh Horowitz?

  So one a day, cause just you put so much into it. It was just like psychologically a lot to like really.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  It's too hard. It's too hard to learn all the lines. Like his people would give you like ten pages and you have to go in to do this. So, you know, you're just like, you would just drill at night. You'd just be learning lines, going into auditions, learning lines, going into auditions, learning lines, going to audition. Um, and it was like you'd be praying to just get the job so that you didn't have to audition.

• 40:31Josh Horowitz?

  Just to end this madness.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, just for a patch, you know. Um, and you know, and then I had, I had like people lovely casting directors like Susie Paris who like just cast me in all these like TV. Jobs and I was like, I was, you know, keeping me alive, could pay my rent. But it was when I booked like, I booked, um, I, I around that time. I think I got a, um, it was Paradise Lost. It was an Alex Priors film.

• 40:55Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yes. This was around forever. They kept trying to make it.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Yes, and, um, and I was originally.

• 41:01Josh Horowitz?

  Australian filmmaker Alex Priors.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:02Josh Horowitz?

  Great film, Dark City, one of my favorites.

• 41:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, amazing, amazing. And I was originally, um, and I was testing and testing and testing for this over and over. And then originally I was gonna play Gabriel and, um, and that's what's testing, testing, testing. And then, um, Casey Affleck was cast as Gabriel. I was like, but we think you'd be really good Raphael. I was like, okay, is I gonna try? And I got cast as Raphael. And then, you know, like, uh, I realized, oh, they want you to get into shape and to go to a personal trainer. And I started working with this personal trainer in London. It was like, you know, I had like six weeks to like gain weight. I'd be like eating steak and nuts for breakfast. I was like, it was a totally stressful experience.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  And flying out to Los Angeles is my first time in Los Angeles ever. They put me up in, they put me up in, um, in the Holiday Inn in Santa Monica.

• 41:56Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  And I remember like, whoa, this is such a weird experience. Like, anyway, um,

• 42:04Speaker 01

  and, and then, but, but then going over to the studios and doing, making full three D avatars of, of your face. I'm sitting there like doing every facial expression so they could do. And um and then like two weeks before that was supposed to start, it got cancelled.

• 42:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  It was like.

• 42:24Josh Horowitz?

  That's a big one. I remember that one, yeah.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I.

• 42:27Josh Horowitz?

  That teaches you a lesson. I mean, I guess.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  I mean, it was just was just one of those things where I was like, oh, and all of that is gone. And now you've got to go back and. And the lucky thing about that was I was in Los Angeles anyway at that time.

• 42:39Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  Um, and uh I had done a self tape for Susanna Beer.

• 42:46Josh Horowitz?

  Serena.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then um and then my agent called and she was like, so she said, Susanna Beer wants to meet you. The film, by the way, uh Paradise Lost has collapsed.

• 42:57Josh Horowitz?

  Bad news, bud.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  But Susanna Beer wants to meet you. Can you get on the plane? Uh I mean, like, you know, in two days or something. I was like, whoa, okay. So like, had to buy a ticket to get on the plane, you know, like fly back to um one, because they're not going to fly you back. I mean, there's a lot of, that's what it is. People maybe don't know that, you know, particularly at those times, you're really like working to pay for your.

• 43:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Life, because it's so expensive. It's like crazy. Um, and um, yeah, so then I, yeah, got. Ended up working with Bradley Cooper on Serena, and he told me a lot more about what went down.

• 43:32Josh Horowitz?

  On Paradise.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  On Paradise Lost, which I won't say publicly, but yeah. Um, and then the other one that collapsed like that, that was like very heartbreaking was I was in a Steve McQueen TV show. Series called Codes of Conduct, that um I was shooting a TV show in New Orleans that um. I probably shouldn't have done, but I did it because I um loved um uh Lorna Schoeffig, who had directed um The Riot Club. And she had said, hey, can you come over and do this show? And, you know, um, and so I went over and did that with her. And then I was uh, you know, auditioning for um this Steve McQueen project, uh TV series called Code of Conduct.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  And like, you know, again, like flying, that time they did fly me over to New York from New Orleans um to screen test for him. And then, you know, got it and then signed this very similar to what I have now. It's very longstanding contract. This complete thing. There's a lot more, um, uh, yeah, there's a lot more.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Small print, yeah, exactly. Very intense, small print contract. I have to say it was a very extreme um thing, but um. Uh, and then moved to New York. Shot, we shot the pilot, got picked up, then moved to New York, like shit my entire life from London over to New York. I was like, this is where I'm going to live now. I'm going to be shooting the show. And um, you know, like, we had all these other kind of potential options that I could have done some other films here and there.

• 44:57Josh Horowitz?

  You're journeying.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Um, but I was like, no, I'm here. I'm doing this. Yeah, like this is, this is everything. It was like, you know, the most exciting thing. And then again, it just.

• 45:06Josh Horowitz?

  It's crazy.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And that, that was, that one was hard because that was very discombobulating, that one.

• 45:12Josh Horowitz?

  Was there like, were, were you fitting a type? Like, were casting directors envisioning you for a certain kind of a thing? Like, like, were you, because like, that was also the time of like, it was like YA. That was like, you know, there was that. There was like the romance fiction kind of things, like the Outlanders of the world.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:29Josh Horowitz?

  Were you kind of going up for anything and everything or?

• 45:31Speaker 01

  I was going for every, anything and everything. And I think maybe that's probably been my problem is that I, I'm not very good at a base to sticking to a single type. Like, I like to like try and be different things. Um, I mean, I think in England, when I was living in England, I was really like posh guy, like, you know, I was really like, and then that might be, you know.

• 45:50Josh Horowitz?

  That was a bit of Riot Club, right?

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Riot Club. And I mean, pretty much everything I did was this in England was this sort of like RP or like period movie um in some capacity. And after a while, that, that, that did become difficult.

• 46:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it was sort of like, I don't feel, I have, I can't do this all the time. And I don't feel like this character and um, and I did. And then, you know, after um Code of Conduct, because he was like a, he was like a New Jersey cop. So like I, I, and you know, and I started working with a trainer for that and I like had. Um, I got to like ninety kilos, which is crazy. I mean, I don't know you're in kilos, but like season two of Interview with. The vampire was something, something crazy like seven, sixty nine, seventy kilos.

• 46:36Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  I mean, cause we were like, you know, losing, losing, losing weight to try and be. Um, season one, I was a little bit heavier than, and then season three, I'm much heavier than that, obviously. So it's not a healthy weight to be. Um, at all, but, um, but I had got, could gain so much weight cause I was like this thick New Jersey cop.

• 46:52Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  There was a boxer and, um, and so I was trying, and then I, and then after that I got, um, cast in, um, the, the prime suspect reboot.

• 47:01Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  So that was my time. I was being a New Jersey cop. I'm gonna try and be this like East London. And I was bad in that. I was really bad.

• 47:09Josh Horowitz?

  No, you weren't.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  No, I know I was. So it's fine. It's okay. It's good to make mistakes. It's good to fail. Um, but I was better. And I, I think, I think even.

• 47:16Josh Horowitz?

  In the middle of it, were you like, I am, I am bad in this now? Or was it in retrospect, you look back and you're like, I just.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  I think it was like, I was playing something that I didn't really know. And I think that was, it was a good thing for me in England because you're a bit like, th- this is why, I mean, you kind of need to have like lived experience to play these kind of very specific.

• 47:34Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  I didn't have any lived experience of being like an East London detective, you know?

• 47:39Josh Horowitz?

  How was, how was seventy one? That's, that's a, that's a good film. That's quite a cast. I mean, Jack O'Connell, who's killing it.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:45Josh Horowitz?

  Eric Hoga.

• 47:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. It was amazing actually, that experience. It was really tough.

• 47:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  For me, um.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  I think Yan won't mind me saying this, but I think, you know, at that film, he specifically thought my character should be alienated.

• 48:02Josh Horowitz?

  I see.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  And.

• 48:03Josh Horowitz?

  So you were actively out, like on the apps from the cast?

• 48:05Speaker 01

  Yes, I was active. They, they were all told not to talk to me.

• 48:08Josh Horowitz?

  No kidding.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  I was put in a different hotel. Um, I was kind of kept separate from everyone.

• 48:13Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, no.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, so it was a difficult experience and I did try and leave it.

• 48:18Josh Horowitz?

  No kidding.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did try and my agent was rightfully so. She was like, I think this is gonna be really cool and this is his process and I think you should just engage with it. And I, and I, and I did. And I went, I, yeah, I'm gonna go back and like engage with it. And it's a fantastic movie. And it's such a good movie.

• 48:32Josh Horowitz?

  But the actual experience isn't that, that can't be enjoyed.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  Well, I think it was, there was a lot of method actors on that film.

• 48:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  And I'm not that.

• 48:39Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  So I don't really need that. Process, I much more like rather be collaborative and fun and um you know, so um Sean Harris, who's also in in um Serena, you know, he and I got on really well.

• 48:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  And I see, I used to run into Sean all the time and he's a fantastic actor. I mean, he's like an insanely talented man and a really, really lovely person.

• 49:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:01Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, really lovely person, but and I was confused because I was like, why aren't we getting on, you know, in in this circumstance? But people are more, you know, in their

• 49:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  In their world and um so it was it was wasn't a great experience, but um I was also young. I was like very young.

• 49:20Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  So I think now if I were to approach it again, I probably would have been like, okay, let's do it. Like I'm I'm game. Like let's play the game.

• 49:26Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  At that time I was a little bit like, you know, maybe a bit sensitive about it.

• 49:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I get it. I get it. So where are you at right now? I mean, this is obviously this this show is a time suck in the best possible way. This is a big commitment each season.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:39Josh Horowitz?

  What are you? Are you doing proof? I think back home.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Doubt, yes.

• 49:42Josh Horowitz?

  Sorry, sorry. Doubt, sorry.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:43Josh Horowitz?

  One word, great plays. John Patrick Stanley plays confuse me.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:47Josh Horowitz?

  Um doubt, great, great play.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:49Josh Horowitz?

  Um, so that's on the docket. What do you, I mean, experience wise, what are you looking for right now?

• 49:55Speaker 01

  To do outside?

• 49:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yes, just generally.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  Um.

• 49:58Josh Horowitz?

  Are you goal driven or is it the kind of part, the kind of filmmaker that what do you?

• 50:02Speaker 01

  I mostly just try and I wanna, I just wanna do things that I wanna see um when I read it now. And like I'll compute pursue things that I will read and I'm like, I I want to see that. I wanna, that's something I wanna watch like I was um. It's it is pretty hard to

• 50:20Speaker 01

  move on from the quality of material.

• 50:23Josh Horowitz?

  Set the bar really.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's actually very hard. Jacob and I talk about this all the time. You sort of like it's like you kind of get everything and then it's also so exhausting, you know, like there was a couple of things that. You know, like I was meant to do a bunch of meetings at the start of this year, but I was so. I was so tired.

• 50:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Um, that, you know, I had to say to my agent, I was like, I can't, I can't do this. I can't do this. Um, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I'm I'm really open to to anything. Um, um. I don't really know.

• 50:55Josh Horowitz?

  What do you?

• 50:55Speaker 01

  Like the the the play was a good thing for me to do because I I felt like I need. Like I learnt so much last time I was on stage. I felt like I really like made me so much better.

• 51:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  And um, and I just became a lot freer.

• 51:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  And and I thought. The start can is a very free in character, but he's also very like, um, like. Like he's in my body very deeply. So sometimes it's good to like step out of that and like, you know, try and make some new pathways in there. So I don't end up like having like weird listartics and.

• 51:31Josh Horowitz?

  Right. What do you? What do you watch for fun? Do you watch a lot of TV or film?

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, we watch a lot of TV at home. Um. Like I've just been watching Margot's Got Money Troubles.

• 51:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, my my problems.

• 51:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Um, which we totally loved. Um, but I actually watch a lot of documentaries.

• 51:51Josh Horowitz?

  Do you?

• 51:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:52Josh Horowitz?

  What's it? Is it true crime, nature, a little bit of everything?

• 51:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I watch I I um, the one that I watched most recently um, was the um, the mistress dispeller.

• 52:02Josh Horowitz?

  The mistress dispeller?

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:04Josh Horowitz?

  That's the name of the actual doc?

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:05Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  And um. It's this woman whose job is to. If there's a uh infidelity in the couple, she will get in there, find a way to kind of like ingratiate between in the couple. And then um, and also ingratiate herself with the with the mistress. Um, and find a way to de-escalate, separate the affair. And get the couple back together again. And

• 52:40Josh Horowitz?

  Must be really easy. That's an easy task.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  It's. And the the fact that they managed to film this.

• 52:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  What they do is it's a little bit like this where they kind of the the cameras are sort of left like little flies on the wall.

• 52:54Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  And but they're but they're beautiful shots. I mean, that's the crazy thing. So there's just like this stunning shots. But there's a level of realism there that you just that I just love to see. You know, sometimes I don't wanna watch acting or sometimes I just wanna be like, oh, my god, this is the world.

• 53:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:12Speaker 01

  This is reality. Um, not reality TV. I hate that, but but but um, but like that. So, yeah, that's that's the kind of stuff I'm seeking out. So it took a really long time to get to that.

• 53:22Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, it's great. We got there. We got there. Um, speaking of landing the plane, we always end happy, say confused with profoundly random questions.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  Great.

• 53:29Josh Horowitz?

  You ready for this?

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:30Josh Horowitz?

  Dogs or cats?

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Dogs.

• 53:33Josh Horowitz?

  You have one?

• 53:33Speaker 01

  I do.

• 53:34Josh Horowitz?

  Tell me about it.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  Ah, I have a dog called Ronnie. Um, and she's uh, the entire center of our of our world. I mean, you know.

• 53:42Josh Horowitz?

  My dog is the center of mine. You see, it's the best. Yeah.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really hard because I travel so much.

• 53:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  Um, so the logistics around the amount of traveling that I do, and you know, we do that that that kind of like means that we can't always be with her. Is like, that that's that's how my entire year is scheduled and life is scheduled. And I mean, like, you know, like, we now have my cousin now, like, moves into the house and like, he's now almost nearly entirely living with us, you know, and she, you know, I just got sent a video. He's just taking her to to the beach and, you know, she's living a

• 54:17Josh Horowitz?

  A good life.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  A very, very good life. So like, but but if I don't know that she is, then I'm.

• 54:23Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, we were gonna, as our vacations were around our dog, we do like road trips now as opposed to like flying.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Why would you wanna, why would you wanna have a holiday without your dog?

• 54:30Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's why I barely wanna leave Australia.

• 54:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 54:35Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect, if anything?

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Um.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  Um, I I collect, um, like, uh, handles, like brass handles.

• 54:47Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, and because I have this kind of like, this and and taps.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  Cause I and vintage sinks.

• 54:57Josh Horowitz?

  This is a new one. I've not heard this before. You just have sinks lying around the house.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  I love architectural salvage.

• 55:04Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  So I'm really into architectural salvage. So I've got, I'm like, it's like the things that I love to do. And I go to a place like that. You've got lots of stores in New York. There's one great one uptown. Good old things, which I'm always in. Well, I've said that I probably, but anyway, but um, uh, you know, like, and I love, and I, but I love old stuff. Or like, you know, going to the markets and fun. And so I have like a shed full of old doors, old sinks, old things. And that I never use. I don't know what to do with.

• 55:35Josh Horowitz?

  Never know when you're gonna need an extra sink. Just.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  Well, I guess my point, I mean, I, we did this renovation of our house and like, it's all got old sinks and old baths in it that have all been reenamled and cleaned up. All the taps are mostly old. Some, old taps actually don't work out so well.

• 55:50Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  But I love, yeah, I love old things.

• 55:53Josh Horowitz?

  Love it. Yeah. Do you have a favorite video game of all time?

• 55:59Speaker 01

  Probably GoldenEye. Yeah. I mean, that was, that was the classic for me. Yeah.

• 56:05Josh Horowitz?

  The Dakota Johnson memorial question. She asked me this. I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 56:11Speaker 01

  A mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 56:14Josh Horowitz?

  Fuck.

• 56:17Josh Horowitz?

  I know. She's diabolical that way.

• 56:23Josh Horowitz?

  This is the longest you've paused the entire conversation.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  I'm just trying to, I'm trying to imagine, imagine.

• 56:28Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you for going down both roads.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like, I reckon one bee in the butt is gonna be the best option of the, the two terrible options.

• 56:36Josh Horowitz?

  I think scientifically that is the way to go.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 56:42Speaker 01

  My dog. Yeah. My dog looks like an angel.

• 56:46Josh Horowitz?

  Of course. Of course. Can we, can we see the dog? Is that okay?

• 56:50Speaker 01

  I hope it is.

• 56:51Josh Horowitz?

  Talk about the dog or not.

• 56:54Speaker 01

  There it is.

• 56:55Josh Horowitz?

  What was the name again?

• 56:58Speaker 01

  This is like, this is my, this is an insight into my life. And there's also Roland Jones. Roland Jones sent three messages from Roland Jones.

• 57:05Josh Horowitz?

  Where are you?

• 57:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's my.

• 57:06Josh Horowitz?

  New pages.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  It's my dog.

• 57:07Josh Horowitz?

  Love it.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:10Josh Horowitz?

  Last actor you were mistaken for?

• 57:13Speaker 01

  Um.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  Hmm. I don't know if I really get mistaken um or or recognized very often.

• 57:21Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 57:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, I mean, uh, um, I I guess the last time that I was like a really extreme, like, no, I'm I am not this person.

• 57:34Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  Was Dermot O'Leary, who's a British, he's a British TV host.

• 57:40Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 57:40Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, and I was like, quite a thing. I was like, no, no, like, I I I'm really, I, oh, no, no. The last person I was mistaken for was literally at the airport by all of these autograph hunters. And I felt terrible. I was like, I got was Hayden Christensen. And they had all of these pictures of Hayden Christensen. They're like, hey, I was like, and they're smashing on the car window, like pulling over. And I was like, oh, this is so embarrassing. I was like, I'm not, should I just one thing that was like, I'm not Hayden Christensen. And I felt so bad for Hayden Christensen. I was like, that was extreme.

• 58:11Josh Horowitz?

  Star Wars fans.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was horrendous.

• 58:14Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, being mistaken for Anakin Skywalker.

• 58:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 58:16Josh Horowitz?

  Nice.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  Nice. It's great.

• 58:18Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, what's the worst noted director has ever given you?

• 58:22Speaker 01

  I can't use it if you don't do anything.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  Sam, you have to do something. I can't use it if you don't do anything.

• 58:31Josh Horowitz?

  Is that recent? Is that way back? What?

• 58:33Speaker 01

  But that was many years ago, but it was, it's stuck with me.

• 58:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I would imagine.

• 58:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:39Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, in the spirit of Happy Sec Infused, who's an actor who always makes you happy, you see them on screen, you're in a better mood.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Um, gosh, uh, I've been saying this a lot recently, but Gary Oldman, he's actually like my, my happy place. Um, often when I, when I, um, and I did this a lot when I was doing seventy one, actually, it was like this when I found this moment is like, when I'm going through a bit of a difficult patch, um, I watch interviews with Gary Oldman talking about when he was going through difficult times.

• 59:08Josh Horowitz?

  I'm obsessed.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:08Josh Horowitz?

  He's done the podcast a few times.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  Really?

• 59:10Josh Horowitz?

  He is the best human being, the best actor of all time.

• 59:14Speaker 01

  No, I'm not surprised. Yeah. I, you know what? I just love, you know, and also that, that him, him and Christopher Lee both have, and they're which are in both, you know, vampire people, uh, but, um, which, which is, which is a coincidence, I mean, but not, but, um, but they both have these two most beautiful moments behind the scenes where they're just like so stressed out by the, how overwhelming this situation is in, in, um, Dracula. You know, like, and he's in that big suit and behind the scenes, he's like, I just can't fucking move in this fucking thing. Francis.

• 59:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, he's like, I can't.

• 59:45Speaker 01

  And, um, and Christopher Lee, like in walking up the stairs, um, going, trying to do it like walk upstairs in, in Lord of the Rings going like, I can't do it, Peter. I can't walk up these stairs smoothly. I just love it. Like just be like, I know, I totally understand.

• 1:00:00Josh Horowitz?

  You've been there.

• 1:00:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:02Josh Horowitz?

  You have something to talk to Gary about when you meet.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:04Josh Horowitz?

  A movie that makes you sad?

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  Um, gosh, um, I mean, I, I, I'd cry at everything. Um, I watched, um, Scarlet on the film.

• 1:00:20Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, the animated, right?

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  The anime on the plane and I just cried the whole way through that. So that was, that was the last thing that made me sad. I'm, I'm gonna, I'm pretty like ready, ready to.

• 1:00:32Josh Horowitz?

  The elevation also does that.

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, they say that, right?

• 1:00:34Josh Horowitz?

  It's real.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:35Josh Horowitz?

  I think it's real. And finally, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it. Why do people eat that?

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  Oh, um, uh, anchovies. Like I don't, I like the, I just.

• 1:00:47Josh Horowitz?

  It's intense. It's a lot.

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:49Josh Horowitz?

  I don't agree, but I, I.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  But it doesn't make me confused because I totally get it.

• 1:00:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  Like I get it. Um, but I, I mean, I'm always disappointed by it.

• 1:00:57Josh Horowitz?

  That's the disappointment.

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Um, congratulations on the new season, The Vampire List. We haven't mentioned, we talked off camera, but as we tape this, you're also about to kind of perform live in character presumably.

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's gotta be in character. Yeah, it'll be so much easier when it's in character because it will feel like a play, you know, for me it will. I mean, I don't know what it's gonna feel like for people watching, but yeah.

• 1:01:18Josh Horowitz?

  That's so cool. Congratulations on the new season. I'm always obsessed with the show and the new season is absolutely fantastic. Um, I'm so glad this finally happened.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:26Josh Horowitz?

  Thanks, Sam. Appreciate you.

• 1:01:29Speaker 03

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:01:38Speaker 00

  I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't supposed to do this by Josh.

• 1:01:47Speaker 04

  For eight years, we've been asking the same question over and over again. How did this happen? My name's Mandy. And I'm Melissa and we're the hosts of Moms and Mysteries, the true crime podcast with over 55 million downloads. We're two Florida moms who are obsessed with mysteries. Each week we do deep dives into fascinating true crime stories. We cover everything from infamous cases like Casey Anthony to the bizarre and complex crimes right here in our home state, like the shocking murder of FSU professor Dan Markel. We bring you the facts, but with warmth and width you'd only get from two friends who have been hooked on mysteries since childhood. Join us for new episodes of Moms and Mysteries every Tuesday and Thursday. Listen to Moms and Mysteries on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.