Jon Hamm, Vol. II

Jon Hamm cemented his iconic status with Don Draper and MAD MEN but what drew him back to leading a series after all these years? Jon joins Josh to chat about YOUR FRIENDS & NEIGHBORS, the legacy of MAD MEN, the power of Tom Cruise in TOP GUN MAVERICK, and the superhero role he was a little early on. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to ⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod #sponsored Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 4/9 -- Daniel Radcliffe in NY -- Tickets here 4/10 -- Matt Bomer in Miami -- Tickets here 4/16 -- BEEF (Oscar Isaac, Carey Mulligan, Charles Melton) in NY -- Tickets here 5/5 -- Stanley Tucci in NY -- Tickets here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  My pitch for the Superman thing was like, what if Superman was funny like he used to be with Christopher Reeve? And they were like, great idea. We're gonna do that two more Supermans later. Um, but uh, no, uh, so I didn't.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins.

• 0:20Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, Jon Hamm from Mad Men to Your Friends and Neighbors and so much more. Hey guys, thanks as always for joining us on the podcast, enjoying us on YouTube, on Spotify, however you're enjoying it. I appreciate you guys. Uh, thanks as always for tuning in. This is a really fun one. This is another live event. We taped at 92nd Street Y the other day with the dashing, the funny, the charming, the one and only Jon Hamm. He is the main event today. A great conversation about his uh, show entering its second season, Your Friends and Neighbors, but this is a career chat. You're gonna enjoy this one.

• 1:00Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, really fun stuff ahead. Before we get to Jon Hamm though, a lot to mention. First of all, um, I don't even know where to begin. I, we have so many live events all of a sudden that have stacked up that I want to mention that I haven't been mentioning lately. So if you're in New York, if you happen to be in Miami, uh, we've got some stuff for you. So let me run through a bunch of things and as always, remember, patreon.com/happysadconfused is where you get all the early announcements on our live events. You get discount codes. You also get early access to all of our podcasts, bonus materials, merch, autographed posters, all sorts of cool stuff. Patreon.com/happysadconfused. Okay. Off the top of my head, let me see if I can get this all right. Live events coming up.

• 1:43Josh Horowitz?

  This Thursday, April 9th, I am sitting down at the 92nd Street Y with Daniel Radcliffe for the podcast. Live taping of Happy Sad Confused with Daniel Radcliffe talking about his new one man play on Broadway. It's called Every Brilliant Thing, but we're gonna talk about so much more. Uh, tickets are still available for that one. Check it out. I also will be in Miami the next day. So if you happen to be a listener to Happy Sad Confused, uh, and have never gotten a chance to see me in person and you're in Miami in the area, come on out. April 10th, uh, it's me and Matt Bomer. Matt Bomer, fantastic fellow travelers, uh, white collar, so much more, uh, career conversation with Matt on April 10th in Miami. Then what else?

• 2:27Josh Horowitz?

  Let's see. Oh, very, very soon. This one was just announced. Um, Beef. You guys remember the show Beef, the Netflix series? It is back for a second season, an all-new cast. I've been watching this. It is fantastic. Get a load of this. April 16th, at the 92nd Street Y, we're screening, I believe, two episodes of the new season, and I'll be chatting, among others, with Oscar Isaac and Carey Mulligan and Charles Melton. Yes, cast members. We're also having folks behind the scenes, the director, Jake Schreier, uh, who's gonna be directing, I think, the new X-Men movie. Yeah, he did Thunderbolts. So, yeah, cool stuff. A really

• 3:06Josh Horowitz?

  cool panel, April 16th, and I love this show, the new season of Beef. Then, May 5th, the one and only Stanley Tucci, talking about his amazing Italy show, but also, of course, Devil Wears Prada, May 5th, 92nd Street Y. Uh, tickets are nearly sold out for that one already. Big fanbase for Tucci. I don't blame you guys, but, uh, get your tickets now. There are a few still available. I'll put all the links in the show notes. Uh, and there's at least one other Marvel-related event that I think is about to be announced. So, something for everybody and more, always more. So, um, okay, let's talk about the main event today,

• 3:48Josh Horowitz?

  though. Jon Hamm. Jon Hamm. It has been a while since he's been on the podcast, I think, like, 2019 or so. Uh, great catch-up with Jon here. His new show, not so new, but I guess it's relatively new, it's second season, has just debuted on Apple TV. It is Your Friends and Neighbors. Uh, Jon leads this great ensemble, including, um, Amanda Peet, now James Marsden. Uh, this is a disgraced hedge fund, hedge fund trader who dealt with a lot in the first season, who has resorted to stealing from his friends and neighbors to kind of keep up with the Joneses. Um, it's funny, it's dramatic, it's quirky, highly recommended, Apple TV, Your Friends and Neighbors. But this conversation not only covers that

• 4:31Josh Horowitz?

  one, but everything. Obviously, he made it big in Mad Men about 20 years ago, and, um, we cover that, Top Gun. His Superman audition way back when, great chat, funny guy, smart guy, his 30 Rock stuff, come on, Jon Hamm can do it all, including give a great conversation in this. So, without any further ado, here is me and Jon Hamm, live at the 92nd Street Y, enjoy. Hi, everybody, how's it going? Welcome. Thank you so much for being here. Um, my name's Josh Horowitz, I host the podcast called Happy, Sad, Confused, you're inside of it, did you know that? You're in a podcast right now, thank you for being here. Um, I'm so thrilled to be with you guys tonight to host this very special conversation with

• 5:16Josh Horowitz?

  Jon Hamm. Any Jon Hamm fans out there? Yes? Okay. That's about 700 of you, I'm gonna guess. Um, it's been about 20 years, nearly 20 years if you can imagine, that Don Draper dropped into our lives, Jon Hamm dropped into our lives. And, um, ever since then, I mean, the film work, we could talk about The Town, Top Gun Maverick, of course, the television work from 30 Rock to Fargo, to his new show entering its second season, Your Friends and Neighbors, this guy has quite the resume. We're gonna celebrate the new season of Your Friends and Neighbors, it's dropping on Apple TV, April 3rd, please make him feel welcome, it's the one and only Jon Hamm, everybody, come on out.

• 5:59Speaker 00

  Thank you, New York City. Nice place you got here. Well, well, well, a couple of J.H.s.

• 6:20Josh Horowitz?

  Go on. Um, congratulations, Jon, welcome back to the 92 Y.

• 6:25Speaker 00

  Thank you very much, thank you, it's great to be here, I was, I was looking, thinking back on my time here, uh, on this stage, and I think I've done every version of this thing, I've been in your seat, I've done a state, a couple of stage readings, and, uh, now this is completing the circle of being, I get to be interviewed, so I'm very excited.

• 6:42Josh Horowitz?

  You're in the hot seat tonight, first of all, that, they, there are gonna be some audience questions later on, I solicited some, this is, um, from an Adam Scott, he wanted to know, have you ever seen the movie Master and Commander?

• 6:54Speaker 00

  This is a very inside joke between Adam and I, which makes me laugh and no one else in this room. In the best way of an inside joke. Adam and I have been asking each other if we've seen Master and Commander since Master and Commander came out, which I don't know if you, full title, Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World. The wonderful Russell Crowe sailing epic. It's a great movie, you really should see it. But yes, that's, I have, it's really wonderful.

• 7:23Josh Horowitz?

  This whole conversation is gonna be about Master and Commander.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  Oh, good, good, guys, you guys are in for a treat.

• 7:27Josh Horowitz?

  Let's roll a clip, no, okay. Congratulations on the new season of the show, John.

• 7:32Speaker 00

  Thank you, thank you very much, thank you. It's wildly compelling in that trailer, I hope it stands up to it.

• 7:39Josh Horowitz?

  It lives up to it, from what I've seen. So talk to me first about, look, you've obviously done a lot of television work since Mad Men, but, correct me if I'm wrong, this is the first ongoing starring role in a series that you've taken on.

• 7:51Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 7:52Josh Horowitz?

  So, is that a big decision? Was that a big, was there a resistance for a while? Tell me what brought this one to fruition, where others maybe didn't.

• 8:00Speaker 00

  I wouldn't say there was necessarily a resistance to doing it, I certainly knew what it entailed, I knew the, kind of how heavy a lift it has the potential to be. Most shows, listen, don't have the great fortune to be Mad Men and go the better part of 10 years, and seven or eight seasons, however you want to describe it, thank you. So, you know, when you get into anything like that, you think, well, if it goes a year, I'll be happy, if it makes it past the pilot into episode two, I'll be happy. So to have it go for the better part of a decade, and to be the cultural touchstone that it was, was tremendous.

• 8:42Speaker 00

  So you don't necessarily think that every time you embark on such a journey, it's going to end up like that, but, you know, hope springs eternal. So, there was always the kind of thing, but the deciding factor in everything that I've really chosen is, who do I want to spend the day with? Who do I want to work with? And when I met Jonathan Tropper, the incredible writer and creator of the show, I thought, this is a guy that I could get in bed with. Which is a long list.

• 9:18Speaker 00

  It's not that long. So this is a guy I really feel like we could make something better than the sum of its parts, and that's what I hope that we've done and continue to do.

• 9:29Josh Horowitz?

  And as opposed to, look, on Mad Men, your creative input grew as the show continued. This, from the start, you're a producer, you're of a certain stature now where you can have that kind of creative hand right from the start. What was important for you in kind of creating this world, fleshing out this character right from the start?

• 9:47Speaker 00

  Well, and I'm also, I think, I think my, my experience in history in making television is, has enabled me to be confident enough to let other people do their job. And I feel like that has certainly been the case with Jonathan in this particular thing. Certainly was with Noah Hawley on Fargo, another brilliant writer who I was here interviewing at one point. Another exciting time at the 92nd Street Y. Look it up, it was pretty fun.

• 10:21Josh Horowitz?

  Is that the real Jon Hamm voice? Like, is the other one like?

• 10:23Speaker 00

  Yep, it's pretty, pretty much that.

• 10:27Speaker 00

  Oh, boy. I got off a plane like two hours ago, guys. No, but, but I think that part of that, part of getting into a place in your career where you are that comfortable to just say, "Look, I'm not trying to do your job for you. I will, if you have anything that you need me for, or anything that you want to bounce off me, for sure." And that, that is a, that's a great place to be. Matthew and I, for sure, on Mad Men, we would have one or two discussions at the beginning of every season to just kind of say, "Where do you think Don is? Where do you think..." And we would have what ended up becoming like a three and a half hour, very relatively boozy lunch on brand.

• 11:09Josh Horowitz?

  It's for the show.

• 11:10Speaker 00

  It was for the show.

• 11:15Speaker 00

  But yeah, and, and so, you know, and then it's like, "Okay, well, go do it." You know, and, and I've never considered myself much of a writer. I, I get, I get confused and distracted if I have to write anything longer than a greeting card or an email. So for me, I, I'm very comfortable with allowing the professionals to handle that.

• 11:42Speaker 03

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• 13:11Speaker 04

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• 13:29Josh Horowitz?

  How do you look at Coop as a character? I mean, disgraced hedge fund manager is not necessarily the archetype of like a hero in any story, but you find, I mean, look, you're no stranger to playing, obviously, kind of anti-heroes, for lack of a better term. Do you view him as such?

• 13:47Speaker 00

  Um, kind of. I mean, you know, the funny thing about Coop's situation is that he is not the architect of his own demise necessarily. Um, you know, his, his divorce is not directly his fault. You can, we can get into the weeds of how maybe he wasn't the most attentive person in a, in a relationship and that may have led to whatever, but the inciting incident wasn't necessarily his. Um, and then of course, losing his job, it turns out, we find out, not to spoil anything, but it's been over a year, guys. Uh, that, that it really was a little more of a, of a corporate machination that was happening to him rather than something that he did, whether wittingly or unwittingly.

• 14:28Speaker 00

  So, so there's plausible deniability for Coop being a bad guy. Um, now the robbery part.

• 14:37Josh Horowitz?

  I'm, I'm interested in your case for this one, yeah.

• 14:39Speaker 00

  Is a little more tricky to, to defend, but, um, but so, I mean, that's, that is, um, that is, that is what makes, I think that's what makes the, that's the secret sauce that makes the drama, you know, fizz and it's, it's really, it's really fun to play and it's very, very fun to have something that is so tenuous, the sword of Damocles is, is consistently hovering and to really, to really have that as a narrative, um, you know, device is, is, is great because every, every scene is loaded, like what's happening, especially as you saw when we have someone like the brilliant James Marsden come in

• 15:19Speaker 00

  and, uh, and really disrupt everything and become this real agent of chaos. Um, it's very, very exciting.

• 15:26Josh Horowitz?

  It's also obviously a resonant show to our times. It's very much about, you know, like keeping up appearances, presenting one face to the world, feeling like you have to kind of present something that may not be your, your true inner life. I mean, it seems like you're someone that hasn't, I don't know, to like worry about that, to worry about image is gonna like drive you insane as, as an actor. Do you, I mean, how do you connect with the, the broader themes of this work you think?

• 15:54Speaker 00

  I think, you know, I guess that's. I think some people do it, do that worry about their image or present something or primp or however you want to say it, more kind of outwardly and proactively and some people sort of just, it happens. I don't know which one I am necessarily. I don't spend a lot of time on stuff. I've never really thought about acquiring as a metric to kind of rate how important I feel. It doesn't necessarily, maybe that's coming from where I come from, relatively humble beginnings and certainly hoping to be in beautiful

• 16:36Speaker 00

  places in New York City and have all the cool stuff and, but never really making it a definition of who I was.

• 16:43Josh Horowitz?

  So you never?

• 16:44Speaker 00

  I mean, when I moved to LA, so here's a perfect example. When I moved to LA, I drove a 1981 Toyota Tercel. Jealous, just wait. It was also a five-speed and it had vinyl interior and windows you had to roll down and no air conditioning. So in St. Louis, that meant that your chance of getting a third-degree burn on the top of your thigh was 80 to 90% every summer. But I filled it up with the stuff that I had and anything that didn't fit in this two-door hatchback didn't make the trip. So that's all I really needed. That was kind of what it was. I had spent the previous two years kind of living

• 17:26Speaker 00

  in friends' basements and other places. So stuff just never really was that tremendously important in my life. Sure, there were certain sentimental things that made the trip, of course, but if it didn't fit in the 81 Tercel, it didn't make it out there.

• 17:45Josh Horowitz?

  So there wasn't like a big splurge early on? You land a commercial, you land a guest spot and you just?

• 17:49Speaker 00

  No, in fact, the first, God, what was the first, the first time I did a movie called We Were Soldiers, which is based on a book called We Were Soldiers Once and Young, which sounds like a weird law firm. The law firm of We Were Soldiers Once and Young. Thank you.

• 18:10Speaker 00

  Took me thirty years to come up with that joke.

• 18:11Josh Horowitz?

  It would've been so good on the press tour back then.

• 18:15Speaker 00

  Um, starring Mel Gibson and Sam Elliott and Greg Kinnear and, and a cast of all these young, and I was one of the young soldiers in it. I turned thirty on that, on that movie. And I was able to pay my bills after that movie, pay off my student loans, pay off my six to eight months of back rent. Thank you Marilyn Alex for never kicking me out of my house in Los Angeles. But, uh, yeah, that was kind of the first time I was able to pay off stuff and, and become solvent as a person and not in crippling debt. And again, I went to, I went to a state school, so, you know, my, my student loans were like

• 18:58Speaker 00

  three thousand dollars, um, but I didn't have enough money to pay them off and, and therefore I didn't answer the phone a lot. Um, we've all been there. Especially in a pre caller ID moment. I don't, I don't know who this is. Who? Sorry. Um, so yeah, I, I, I, that was.

• 19:16Josh Horowitz?

  We are all stuck at whoever we were at fifteen or sixteen.

• 19:21Speaker 00

  Something like that. I think something like that. But it, but it's, um, this is way better. I'll, I'll say that.

• 19:27Josh Horowitz?

  So you're saying, definitively, you're saying this?

• 19:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I prefer this. I remember when we were trying to get James to do this. Now, James Marsden is having a moment, to say the least. I mean, between, between jury duty and, and Paradise and of course, saving the world against Doctor Doom, Cyclops. We were like, he's not gonna, he can't be in two places at once. I don't care how awesome a superhero he is, he can't be in two places at once. But we, we, he, uh, he, he chose to, to, to make it happen. And I was like, here's, well, here's the only selling point. You will never look better than in this show. You are gonna have awesome clothes. And he did, and he does.

• 20:11Josh Horowitz?

  Did this, did this come through your connection through your fantasy football league?

• 20:14Speaker 00

  Yes, basically. I am in a fantasy football league with most of the Marvel Universe.

• 20:19Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, you're in that league? Yeah, I put it like this.

• 20:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I'm the only non-Avenger. I'm one of the only people that doesn't wear a cape. But, but yeah, that was how, and I had known James for a long time. It's, you just, if you're hanging around in Hollywood for long enough, you tend to meet pretty much everybody at some point. So it was, it was, I was, we were thrilled to get him, obviously. He's such value added and he just knocks it out of the park this whole season.

• 20:45Josh Horowitz?

  Can I do my obligatory superhero digression because I'm such a nerd?

• 20:48Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 20:48Josh Horowitz?

  We talked in the past, you told me once you auditioned for Superman a thousand years ago.

• 20:53Speaker 00

  I did.

• 20:53Josh Horowitz?

  That was like, when you were 30, you said, I think, about...

• 20:56Speaker 00

  Something, I was too old. 30. Come on. Nice try. That was, I believe it was the, was it the Brandon Routh one?

• 21:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I think that makes sense. It is shocking to me that, like, because there was talk that we were gonna be, I'm sorry, guys, I'm gonna get geeky.

• 21:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, buckle up.

• 21:13Josh Horowitz?

  Mr. Sinister in that new Mutants film?

• 21:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, that was, that was supposed to happen and didn't. I think there was some corporate craziness that went and they sold the studio and Disney bought the studio.

• 21:23Josh Horowitz?

  You kind of dodged the bullet on that one. That was okay. That movie didn't turn out, with all due respect.

• 21:27Speaker 00

  Well, listen, I mean, you know, I don't, I don't pick them. It's, it's, no, it's, uh, my pitch for the Superman thing was like, what if Superman was funny like he used to be with Christopher Reeve? And they were like, great idea. We're gonna do that two more Supermans later. But, uh, no, uh, so, I didn't.

• 21:45Josh Horowitz?

  Fair enough. Okay, so back to this. So you, you, uh, did you come out of the womb with this voice? Because that voiceover, you give good voiceover, Jon Hamm.

• 21:51Speaker 00

  Thank you, thank you. Mercedes Benz, the best, or nothing?

• 21:57Speaker 00

  Turns out nothing because they went with Lucy Liu recently, but that's okay.

• 22:01Josh Horowitz?

  Did you have that kind of Will Arnett early career? Was Vio like something that helped you?

• 22:04Speaker 00

  You know what was funny? That is funny you mention this because one of my dear friends whose name is Tall John, because he's very tall, 6'10", it's real. And he's a hilarious comedy writer. He writes for Bob's Burgers, one of my oldest friends in Los Angeles. He used to write the interstitial, what do you call them, bumpers, I guess, for the WB. When Michigan J Frog was doing his thing, he would write "Coming Up Next on the WB." And he was like, "You want to do these?" I was like, "Does it pay any money?" And he goes, "Yeah." I go, "Then yeah." And so I came in and I did my, you know, "Coming Up on a very special Dawson's Creek."

• 22:51Speaker 00

  They were like, "Uh, no, it's really not working for us." And I was like, "Oh, I didn't get that either."

• 22:58Josh Horowitz?

  Where are they now? Where's the Frog now?

• 23:01Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 23:03Josh Horowitz?

  So... Dead.

• 23:06Josh Horowitz?

  Coop had an eventful first season, to say the least.

• 23:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:09Josh Horowitz?

  What are, what's in store for him this season? What can we talk about?

• 23:12Speaker 00

  Well, what I love about this season is that there's no time jump. We pick up where it left off. And where it left off was there was a lot of fallout, essentially, from the first season. Not only in Coop's life, but kind of in the neighborhood. There was a fairly significant murder slash suicide scandal. And Sam, who is played by Olivia Munn, and this is still in the neighborhood, there's a lot of people who are, by, perfectly normally, a little distrustful of her, given that she tried to essentially frame one of their friends

• 23:50Speaker 00

  and neighbors for murder. So there's a lot of uneasy, unease, we'll say, in the friend group. And there is still this nagging mystery as to what keeps happening to people's luxury goods.

• 24:08Josh Horowitz?

  If only we knew the answer.

• 24:09Speaker 00

  If only someone put their finger on it. So, so there's a lot happening. And then into all of this, as we just saw, drops a very well-heeled agent of chaos in the shape, the very appealing shape, of James Marsden. And, um, and he's so, I'm, I'm, I just, I can't stop talking about his performance in this because it's so perfect. He is this perfect addition to this group. He's this Gatsby-esque outsider who has it seemingly all buttoned up and looks amazing. And of course, like, like quite a few of the, of the people in this neighborhood, if you scratch the surface a little bit, it starts to get very weird indeed.

• 24:52Speaker 00

  So that's kind of what ends up being the prime mover of, of the second season. And, um, I can't remember how much you've said you've seen of the-

• 25:02Josh Horowitz?

  The first two.

• 25:03Speaker 00

  Okay, so you're, you're in for a treat then. As are all of you.

• 25:06Josh Horowitz?

  The good news is-

• 25:07Speaker 00

  I hope you like treats.

• 25:09Josh Horowitz?

  There are a lot of treats to come because you're doing a season three, too.

• 25:12Speaker 00

  Yes, yes, we got, thank you. Thank you. Keep applauding and Apple might pick us up for season four by the time we're done with this. No, Apple has been truly amazing and, and, and really supported the show. We were picked up for a second season before we even aired a first season. The first season aired and we broke all the records for, for viewership and numbers and subscriptions and all the things that they measure these things by, um, which was a tremendous feather in our cap. We were, we were kind of paired with the studio, which had such an amazing first season as well. So it's, it's been a nice, um, comfy ride with, with this fledgling, I suppose you could say still at this point, um, streaming platform.

• 25:57Speaker 00

  But they've been, they've been tremendously supportive and, and yeah, it's, uh, it's nice to be able to, uh, get ready to, to do another season. There's, there's nothing better as an actor than being on vacation, but knowing you have work. And that was, that's been great.

• 26:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, no matter what level you've accomplished in the industry.

• 26:19Speaker 00

  No, it really is. It never gets old. You're like, oh, man, this vacation is so much better because I know I'm going back to work.

• 26:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:26Speaker 00

  I felt that way when I was a teacher, though, so that was pretty cool, too.

• 26:29Josh Horowitz?

  So, speaking of fledgling platforms, that segues back to reminisce for a second. As I said, it's been nearly 20 years since Mad Men came on the air and...

• 26:38Speaker 00

  Another fledgling platform.

• 26:39Josh Horowitz?

  That's what I'm saying. I mean, when you think back to the early days, as I recall, you'll remember better than me, but it was pretty much an immediate critical and ratings hit, which is kind of unprecedented, given the platform you were on, the subject matter, all of it. Do you remember, was, do you remember the early days of just a reception being shocking?

• 26:57Speaker 00

  I remember trying to tell people that was on AMC, not A and E.

• 27:01Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 27:01Speaker 00

  That was, that was an early, early tricky thing for people to... So, A and E, tell me about that. I was like, it sounds great. We're not on it, but I, um, but, uh, two things about the sort of relatively slow growth of Mad Men was that, yes, as soon as the world at large saw it, people were very excited about it and especially excited to talk about it and really kind of, it was at the, it was right at the beginning of sort of blog culture as well. So, that was the thing that people would get online and recap it and talk about it and get in the comments and hash it out with all of their theories and whatnot. But the, the, the, the real problem was it was a relatively expensive

• 27:43Speaker 00

  show, um, and it was still a show about advertising, which you just, the rules were that if it wasn't a show about doctors or lawyers or cops, then it's not a TV show and it doesn't happen, um, because there's no stakes. Um, and we've evolved as TV consumers, uh, past that at this point. Uh, we have shows that are about stealing things in wealthy bedroom communities now. Um, but, uh, but, but that was kind of, people still were having a hard time with that. Um, and so, yes, it got, we, we got picked up kind of season by season until the fourth season. And then we won the Emmy for Best Drama every, for the first

• 28:28Speaker 00

  four years in a row. Um, thanks. Uh, thank you. Um, but yeah, that, so finally, that's when we got picked up for... The rest, the la- the final three seasons. And I said, "Okay, you guys can, you guys have proven it." "Thanks."

• 28:43Josh Horowitz?

  And for you personally, you know, we've talked about this before. I mean, you were a jobbing actor. You weren't like out of nowhere, like you'd been working.

• 28:49Speaker 00

  Where my division fans at?

• 28:52Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, my god.

• 28:52Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 28:56Josh Horowitz?

  But, I, I, where was your head at? And like, in terms of where your career was right before it? And reconciling the fame and accomplishment that came?

• 29:05Speaker 00

  Right, right before it, I had just been fired off of a pilot of a show that when I did it was called Sisters. And then it was eventually when it was, uh, went to series without me, was called Related.

• 29:21Speaker 00

  It went for, I think, a season, maybe a season and a half, two seasons, something like that, which I was devastated about.

• 29:28Speaker 00

  But I was, I was, uh, fired from, from that pilot. And, uh, and that, and that put me back into the swirl of what used to be called pilot season, where you would audition for all of these shows and hope to get one, that then you would hope would go to series, that then you would hope to, it would be, you know, multiple years. So I had auditioned for six pilots this pilot season and got all the way to the end of every one of them and, uh, did not get cast. So Mad Men was the seventh pilot.

• 30:03Speaker 00

  That was for a, uh, network that no one had heard of and, uh, people kept calling it the wrong network. And I was at the very bottom of everybody's list because it was casting out of New York and I didn't know the casting directors. In fact, when I drove across Los Angeles in the rain on a Friday, those of you who've spent time in Los Angeles know that that's a very dangerous and long journey.

• 30:30Speaker 00

  And I ended up at the, at the, uh, place where the audition was being held, a place called Radical Media, which was a commercial, uh, uh, house. They did commercials. And I came in and it was raining and I was wet and I was pissed and I was sitting in traffic for an hour and a half and I was just like, "Fuck." And there's a kid in there waiting and he's like, "Uh, are you here for the, the toothpaste commercial?"

• 30:55Speaker 00

  And I was like, "What? No. What the fu- no."

• 30:59Speaker 00

  "Wait, what toothpaste commercial?"

• 31:02Josh Horowitz?

  I'd be perfect for that.

• 31:05Speaker 00

  I was the only person there because I was, like I said, at the very bottom of the list. And slowly, over the course of the next two months, I started climbing my way up the ladder, which is fun and nice that you keep getting asked back. But also, at every stage, if you do it, you could have done it 18 times great in a row, and if you do it once bad, you're out. And I was terrified that that was going to happen because that was what had happened the last six pilot auditions that I had gone through. Fortunately, it didn't happen that way. I was able to at least put the bat on the ball in each of those auditions. And here we are.

• 31:49Josh Horowitz?

  Clearly. Amazing. Amazing.

• 31:55Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 32:03Speaker 06

  I'm Mandy. And I'm Melissa. And this is Moms and Mysteries. We're two Florida moms obsessed with true crime. From infamous cases like Ellen Greenberg to shocking Florida stories like the Dan Markel killing. With 55 million downloads, we bring you new deep dives every Tuesday and Thursday. Listen to Moms and Mysteries on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 32:23Speaker 07

  Do you love Disney? Do you love top 10 lists? Then you're going to love our podcast, Disney Countdown. Hi, I'm Megan the Magical Millennial.

• 32:31Speaker 08

  And biscuits, I'm Jeremy, aka Jerondell, and we are the hosts of the hit Disney podcast, Disney Countdown.

• 32:37Speaker 07

  On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. The parks, the movies, the music, the food, the lore. There is nothing we don't cover on our show, right Jeremy?

• 32:50Speaker 08

  Ooh, girl. You know, we are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you are looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts.

• 33:06Josh Horowitz?

  When a line like "That's what the money is for" enters like the cultural lexicon, becomes memified years later, before it was before memes existed, what's that like for you as an actor to see that live on?

• 33:18Speaker 00

  I mean, it's been a minute since I've seen that actual scene, not seen it clipped out. But yeah, I mean, when you're... There's a million of those throughout the course of the show. Just the level of writing that Matthew and his staff were able to consistently produce was just unprecedented and impressive. I just... It was great to come to work every day and have scenes like that loaded up. That particular episode too, just top to bottom, was a pretty high watermark. And I think if you actually go through the thing, it's literally right in the middle of the show.

• 34:02Speaker 00

  Like, there's leading up to that, and then there's leading away from that. And it's... I don't know if that happened on purpose. I don't think it could've. But it was pretty... It was pretty cool that that's how that worked.

• 34:14Josh Horowitz?

  As much pride as you must take in dramatic work... I mean, I remember distinctly when 30 Rock happened and I saw you in that show, and like, how unbelievable you were in that show. And the comedy career you have since charted, whether it's "Bridesmaids", being a staple of SNL, etc., is pretty remarkable. How much pride do you take? Because you love comedy.

• 34:40Speaker 00

  I do.

• 34:41Josh Horowitz?

  You were... You knew you had friends in the comedy scene in LA early on.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  Still do.

• 34:45Josh Horowitz?

  So, being a part of that, just having that part of your career must be so thrilling.

• 34:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was great. I mean, the reason I got... And so, "The Pilot of Mad Men" and "The Pilot of 30 Rock" shot in the same studio. They shot at Silver Cup. 30 Rock made it on the air before we did by a year because they had a giant network behind them, and we had A&E, AMC.

• 35:12Speaker 00

  So it was very, we had kind of parallel lives as drama and comedy. And so, a couple of years into both of our runs, I had gotten the offer to host Saturday Night Live. And we finished the read-through of all of the sketches. My first time, I'm freaking out, I'm nervous, I'm sweating. We had forty-five sketches that we read for like four and a half hours, up on seventeen. It's this bananas cauldron that you're pitched into that you have no concept of what it is. And people are running to you and go, "Can you do this kind of, but that's sort of Jamaican, but not offensively? And also, can you sing? And do you know that?" And you're like, "Yeah, sure. Yeah, yes. Okay, right.

• 35:58Speaker 00

  Which one? Right? Okay." And you're holding a stack of scripts that are like this, forty sketches. And you're sitting directly next to Lorne, and in my case, I think it was Kristen Wiig was next, the other side of me. And there's seventy-five people in the room, including the cast. And you read all of these things out loud in front of each other. No pressure. So after that happens, the powers that be go and sort of just determine what they can and can't do, and should and shouldn't do. And by the end of that evening, you have the rudiments of what the show will look like. And they say to the host, "Go down and do some fittings and wigs and all the stuff that you have to do, and come back up in twenty-five minutes, and we'll talk about what the show's gonna look like."

• 36:43Speaker 00

  So down you go, down to eight, and you get your wig cap on, and you get all fit in your little dressing room, and the phone rings. And the phone rings, I'm like, "I don't have a phone. What do you mean? The phone rings? It's just a ringing phone in this dressing room in Thirty Rock." You're like, "This has to be a mistake." So I pick it up, and it's, "Hi, is this John? Yes, you called me." "Hi, this is Robert Karlock. I'm the executive producer of Thirty Rock. We were bumping this idea around. Do you wanna come join us? It's a, we have this idea for this guy who's gonna be Liz's love interest to start in a couple of weeks. You wanna do it?" Uh, hi. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. Okay, great. Uh, well, we'll work it out and we'll see you in a couple of weeks and thanks and it's really great. And I'm like, okay, click.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  Anyway, back to the wigs and we, did that just happen or did I dream that? What was happening? And what had happened behind the scenes, of course, I find this out many moons later, was that Tina called Lorne after read-through and said, "Is that guy funny?" And Lorne said, in his typical Canadian understatement, "Yeah, he'll do." And that, that got me on to 30 Rock. Now, when I started 30 Rock, I was a practicing physician with a daughter. Uh, when I ended 30 Rock, I was a buffoon who had lost both

• 38:06Speaker 00

  hands and had them replaced by comical pirate hooks because I was in, in a Medicine Sans Frontières flight in Africa helicopter and I thought I saw my old football coach, so I waved.

• 38:22Josh Horowitz?

  When you say it like that, it sounds weird. It sounds... It does feel like you've achieved, like, the sweet spot of being able to go back and forth. Because I remember, the last time you were on the podcast, you were saying, like, even like your agents at the time were like, "You're doing a lot of comedy, John." But like, you found, like, you know, in recent years, you got to do something like Fletch and you also get to do Top Gun Maverick and that's, that's like a really rare...

• 38:48Speaker 00

  It's a nice thing to have. The way I describe it, or I have described it in the past, is having credibility kind of on both sides of the aisle.

• 38:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 38:56Speaker 00

  Um, so you, you, you're not forced to, to only play, uh, you know, one, one note. Uh, and that's great. I mean, the, the whole point of getting into this business is not to do the same thing over and over and over again. There's plenty of factory jobs you could do if you wanted to do that. Um, but, uh, I've, I've just been tremendously fortunate. I've been able to put myself into those positions, often, you know, against the wills of my representatives. Um, but there was also kind of, I came along, like I said, the beginning of blog culture, but also the beginning of how this whole business sort of shifted. I think when I got into this, like, you weren't allowed to be a guest star on other shows. It wasn't like a thing that you were able to do because they wanted to kind of own you and keep you in your lane.

• 39:39Speaker 00

  That all went out the window in the, in the early 2000s because of, I think, the necessity of, there was just so much stuff, people had to do it. And I, I, I kept my options open and I said yes to a lot of silly goofy things. Um, everybody, please go and watch Gail Daughtry and the Celebrity Sex Pass if you get a chance.

• 40:02Josh Horowitz?

  I'm very curious about this.

• 40:03Speaker 00

  That's a very, uh, in the, uh, column of silly goofy things.

• 40:08Josh Horowitz?

  Is that David Wayne, is that?

• 40:10Speaker 00

  David's, David's, David and Ken Marino's latest movie, um, which is a very weird take on, let's call it, The Wizard of Oz, except if Dorothy wants to fuck the Wizard of Oz at the end of the movie.

• 40:25Josh Horowitz?

  Are you playing the Wizard of Oz?

• 40:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:32Josh Horowitz?

  Of course you are.

• 40:33Speaker 00

  It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen. But, uh, yeah. So, I mean, stuff like that. And, um, yeah, any agent worth their salt would be like, please don't do this. Oh, don't do this. Like, I'm gonna do it.

• 40:44Josh Horowitz?

  But you also name check, like, again, in recent years, I would imagine, working with Noah Hawley on Fargo, Roy Tillman's gotta be a really special character, really special experience in the career.

• 40:54Speaker 00

  I, I, that, uh, happened because I had seen, uh, the first, hello. Thank you. Thank you very much. Noah Hawley, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, no, not. Um, I, I, I had, uh, seen the first season of Fargo when the, and I thought, like most people, I thought, this is a terrible idea. It's never gonna work. And then I watched it and I was like, this is amazing. Who is this guy? And I met Noah, I think, either that year, the year following, at a, at a holiday party. And we were just happened to be standing next to each other at the bar. And I said, hey, man, I, I like your work. And he said, I like your work. So we should work together sometime. Okay. And lo and behold, we did

• 41:35Speaker 00

  three times. So, um, yeah, he, he, he said, I want you to play this guy who's the Marlboro Man and, uh, but he's really, really, really, really bad. And I said, okay, I can do that. And it was fun. Uncold. Calgary.

• 41:56Speaker 00

  Calgary cold.

• 41:57Josh Horowitz?

  Worth it, though. Worth it.

• 41:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was.

• 41:58Josh Horowitz?

  Some questions from the audience here. In your career, what's the most memorable scene you've ever shot? What's the one that you're gonna be, stick with you till the end of your day?

• 42:08Speaker 00

  Well, there's, there's quite a few from Mad Men that I could go with. But I think the, and it's more recent than that. The, the one that I've really, was really kind of blown away by. And it's, it's, I didn't really have that much to do in it. It's just sort of circumstantial. I remember walking onto the set of Top Gun Maverick. And there's like a four-story American flag to my left. And a Tom Cruise walking toward me in full Maverick gear. With a giant smile. And there's like three F-18s in the deep background. And a hundred naval aviators in the foreground. And he's clapping and he's got his hands out ready for a hug.

• 42:51Speaker 00

  And he's like, "I'm so glad you're here." And I was, it took everything in me to not look behind me like, "Is he talking to me?"

• 43:01Speaker 00

  And, and, and, and I, we had a conversation. And I said, "This must be bizarre for you." You, you were here in this exact space 35 years ago. Doing, playing the same character. And he's like, "Yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty wild."

• 43:19Speaker 00

  "Ready to shoot?" And I was like, "Okay, let's go." And we shot. And I was like, I was having kind of an out-of-body moment of like, "I cannot believe that I..." Top Gun, to me, as a 14-year-old in St. Louis, Missouri, was more than a movie. It was a religion, I guess. It was, we, I mean, I saw it with my friends 100 times. And again, in the age before streaming and, and everything immediately on demand with the press of a button, you had to go out to go see these movies. And we did. It was so, it defined cool for us. And so to be a part of that.

• 44:00Speaker 00

  And be inside of that. And looking, looking around at it. And, and then for the movie to be so tremendous also. That one, I think, I, I, I'm still kind of blown away that I was in that movie.

• 44:12Josh Horowitz?

  That movie, Maverick, yeah, I mean...

• 44:16Josh Horowitz?

  Maverick is a miraculous movie. I mean, I, I, I'm not, I can't say enough about it. It is like a perfect movie of that type.

• 44:24Speaker 00

  It really is. It's a great film. Um, and, and, um, yeah, I was, I was, um, yeah. So I know that's a weird answer to that question, but I, I really do think about that a lot. Just going, and, and, and the fact that we, like, we started shooting that movie before the pandemic.

• 44:40Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 44:41Speaker 00

  So that movie was sitting in a room in Paramount. Cooling its heels for a solid two years.

• 44:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. What's the word on Top Gun three?

• 44:49Speaker 00

  It's a happening. I think. I mean, I'd make it.

• 44:56Josh Horowitz?

  Cyclone, cyclones around?

• 44:58Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 45:00Josh Horowitz?

  Better be. All right. We're gonna end with this, John.

• 45:02Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 45:03Josh Horowitz?

  Happy second few profoundly random questions for you. You ready?

• 45:06Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 45:07Josh Horowitz?

  Dogs or cats?

• 45:08Speaker 00

  Dogs. No, no, no judgment on cats, except I don't like cats.

• 45:14Josh Horowitz?

  I would just want you to be very careful. Jessie Buckley answered this and got into a lot of trouble when she started saying she didn't like cats.

• 45:20Speaker 00

  There is a, literally a movie called Don't Fuck With Cats. If you haven't seen it. Don't fuck with cats.

• 45:30Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect, John, if anything?

• 45:32Speaker 00

  What do I collect? Uh, memories. Um, uh, I have a pretty, I have a pretty solid collection of, of baseballs. And here's the reason why. I know this is a whole rapid fire thing, but guess what? It's gonna get up, I'm, I can't answer a question other than cats or dogs shortly. Shortly? Jesus. English major. Um, when I was growing up, my best friend's dad played professional baseball. And they had this really cool house and it had art everywhere and had books everywhere. And I was like, this is a cool house. One of their rooms, they had a piano. I don't think anybody in the, in the family played piano. But they had a piano, which was also very cool.

• 46:17Speaker 00

  On top of that piano, they had this low, large basket that was filled with baseballs. Not just normal baseballs. These were baseballs that had been used in Major League Baseball games. They had things like Ted's first hit, Ted's hundredth hit, Ted's thousandth hit. All of these things had amazing little notes on them. And I thought, man, that's really cool.

• 46:44Speaker 00

  So I have a collection. Now, I did not play Major League Baseball. I have never caught a ball in the stands, although I've almost caught a ball once, twice. But I get given baseballs a lot, and so this collection is burgeoning, I'll say that. So that's the long answer to your very short question.

• 47:05Josh Horowitz?

  Great answer. Do you have a favorite video game of all time?

• 47:08Speaker 00

  Favorite video game of all time? Coin-operated or console?

• 47:14Josh Horowitz?

  Whatever you like.

• 47:21Speaker 00

  This might be a very controversial. There was a game in the 80s called Defender.

• 47:32Speaker 00

  Did not expect that to get an applause break.

• 47:35Josh Horowitz?

  It's more than the division got.

• 47:38Speaker 00

  It was better than the division. Defender was an amazing game because it had so many buttons and things. And it was incredibly difficult to play. And I was not very good at it. But I really liked, I really wanted to be good at it. And it also had just a button that was kind of a panic button called hyperspace. And if you got in trouble, you just hit the button. It was right in the middle of the thing. This was, this was the, this was forward and backward, and then this, and shooting. And then if everything went to shit, you hit hyperspace. And there was a, I don't even know what the percentage was. Whenever you would come back from, it would take you to a different part of the thing, and you would just zap over there.

• 48:20Speaker 00

  But, I don't know, a certain percentage of the time, you would just blow up, too. So it was kind of like, it was an "oh shit" button, and also the "well, now you're really, now you're dead."

• 48:32Josh Horowitz?

  We could all use a "oh shit" hyperspace button now and then.

• 48:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, if you didn't have to die.

• 48:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right, that's true. The Dakota Johnson memorial question, she asked me this. I ask everybody, "Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?"

• 48:45Speaker 00

  Where exactly in my butt?

• 48:47Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, I've never been asked that.

• 48:49Speaker 00

  Like, between the cheeks? I could handle that all day. In the hole? No, thank you, sir.

• 48:58Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you for that.

• 48:59Speaker 00

  You gotta clarify, guys. I mean...

• 49:03Josh Horowitz?

  I regret so much. Um, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 49:07Speaker 00

  Uh... You guys won't be able to see this. Well, maybe you will. It's my dog Murphy.

• 49:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 49:14Speaker 00

  He getting a little scratch on his chin, because he's a really good boy.

• 49:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:20Josh Horowitz?

  Who's the last actor you were mistaken for?

• 49:23Speaker 00

  Oh, this is a good story.

• 49:27Speaker 00

  Uh, John Hannah. Now, I don't know if you guys know who John Hannah is? Wonderful actor, Scotsman, balding, older than me. Uh, really looks nothing remotely like me. The only thing maybe we have in common is, phonetically, our names. He's a J-O-H-N, I'm not. He's an H-A-N-N-A-H, palindromic, very cool, but no M's, whatever. Hannah, ham, close enough. I went on an audition for something very British at one point in my career.

• 50:12Speaker 00

  It was before Mad Men, but after I had worked on things, so I was a known quantity. And I prepared this whole thing in a very, in my mind, fantastic British accent. And the lady was like, "This is great. You're great. I had no idea you were from the United Kingdom." I said, "That's because I am not."

• 50:34Speaker 00

  "But it's nice that you think that I am, because my English accent is so good." And she said, "That's not why I thought you were a member of the English, uh, the UK. Uh, you have to be a member of the UK to, to, to be in this thing." I said, "Well, I am not."

• 50:49Speaker 00

  "Where does this leave us?"

• 50:52Speaker 00

  Uh, she calls the assistant in and says, "Uh, this is, John is not a, a citizen of the United Kingdom," is it? And there was a lot of hushed whispering, and, uh, and the lady said, "I'm terribly sorry. We thought you were John Hannah."

• 51:11Speaker 00

  And I said, "Oh, no."

• 51:15Speaker 00

  "Nope." And she goes, "Okay, well, do you want to do the second scene?" I said, "No, why? No." And I walked out with my tail between my legs and drove home. But, that's the last person I was...

• 51:28Josh Horowitz?

  That's insane.

• 51:29Speaker 00

  I was mistaken for.

• 51:31Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have a worst note a director has ever given you that sticks out? What's the one that jumps out?

• 51:38Speaker 00

  No, I mean, I can't really think of any terrible note. I remember, uh, early on in my career, working with a television director who had not done a lot of television. And, uh, they were setting the camera up in the wrong place. Because to do the reverse of it, you would have to remove a wall that was not removable. It was a cinder block wall, in fact. We were shooting in a gymnasium. And I said, "You're probably gonna want to move this over here." And he goes, "Thanks, I think I know where to put the camera." Okay, so that was... And of course, we couldn't get the reverse of it, and that person was fired. But, um, that was probably the worst note I got.

• 52:24Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, we're gonna wrap up with this. In the spirit of happy, sad, confused. An actor that you see on screen that always makes you happy, you're immediately in a better mood.

• 52:33Speaker 00

  Jeff Bridges.

• 52:34Josh Horowitz?

  Great, great.

• 52:37Josh Horowitz?

  A movie that makes you sad?

• 52:45Speaker 00

  Terms of Endearment.

• 52:47Josh Horowitz?

  That's one of mine, yeah.

• 52:49Speaker 00

  I was raised Catholic, and I lost my mother very young. So if there's a dead mom, or the devil, in anything, forget about it. I'm either weeping, or under the couch. Like, it's... Those are the two things that... So, confused, I don't know, Protestants?

• 53:09Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, what's a food that makes you confused? You don't get it.

• 53:12Speaker 00

  Um, zucchini noodles? What's the fucking point?

• 53:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:18Speaker 00

  Have some vegetables.

• 53:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Who are we fooling, guys?

• 53:22Speaker 00

  Who are we fooling?

• 53:23Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 53:24Speaker 00

  You could put shoelaces in pasta and be like, "Look, they're shoe... It's shoe pasta." No, just because it's that shape, come on.

• 53:31Josh Horowitz?

  Come on.

• 53:32Speaker 00

  It is confusing.

• 53:33Josh Horowitz?

  We've learned a lot about you tonight.

• 53:34Speaker 00

  We sure have.

• 53:35Josh Horowitz?

  Um, everybody's gonna see Master and Commander... No, they're gonna see Your Friends and Neighbors, April 3rd, on Apple TV. You've seen a sneak peek, more to come, a season three to come. Spread the good word and give it up one more time for the one and only Jon Hamm, everybody.

• 53:55Speaker 00

  I truly want to thank you guys for spending your Sunday with me. This is really, really great. Um, it's a tremendous honor to be here. And thank you guys very, very much for coming out. Um, please do enjoy the show, but, um, thank, thank you. It was really meaningful to me, guys. Thanks so much.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 54:39Speaker 09

  What if the imaginary world you created as a child became real and wanted you back? That's the mystery at the heart of sagas of sundry Darkling Gate, a cinematic Call of Cthulhu actual play series where Jane Austen's social drama collides with cosmic horror.

• 54:57Speaker 10

  The year is 1816, the year without a summer. Three siblings and their companion are drawn to a gloomy country estate beside an ancient forest in the English countryside.

• 55:07Speaker 11

  In its darkened halls, memories of the fanciful Wonderland created by their dead brother begin manifesting in increasingly terrifying ways.

• 55:15Speaker 12

  Expect ballroom courtships, dangerous family secrets, strange relics, occult rituals, and horrors no human mind was ever meant to comprehend.

• 55:24Speaker 13

  If you like Gothic mysteries, Regency romance, immersive role-playing, horror that follows you long after the story ends, step through the Darkling Gate.

• 55:35Speaker 09

  Watch on Geek and Sundry's YouTube channel, or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.