Pod Insights Happy Sad Confused Emma Stone & Jesse Plemons About this episode Two great actors. One insane movie. And a great podcast conversation. Emma Stone and Jesse Plemons join Josh in this chat taped at the Telluride Film Festival for a conversation about their new film (BUGONIA), the rewards of hard work, imposter syndrome, and more.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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0:29 Speaker 01 I do get called Emma Watson all the time. All the time.
0:33 Josh Horowitz? Well, you were great in Harry Potter.
0:34 Speaker 01 Thank you. Thank you.
0:38 Speaker 03 Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.
0:46 Josh Horowitz? Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today, we have Emma Stone and Jesse Plemons, two of the greats of their generation, talking about one of my favorite movies of the year, Yorgos Lanthimos's Begonia. Guys, thanks as always for joining me on the podcast today. Really excited to share this one. We taped this actually at the Telluride Film Festival a while back. We've been holding on to it until the world at large could see the movie. Begonia comes out in theaters this Friday. I highly, highly, highly recommend it. I'm obsessed with it. More on that in a second. Okay, so before we get to Jesse and Emma, I want to remind you guys, we are publishing a ton of really great conversations on Happy, Sad, Confused lately.
1:29 Josh Horowitz? In fact, three a week, which is a lot of work for me, the editors and everybody. I hope you guys are enjoying it. As always, go to Patreon because that's where you get the early access and guest announcements and you can ask questions to some of the guests sometimes. Patreon.com/happy/sadconfused. It's where we announce our live events in New York and Los Angeles and everywhere. So much going on over there, so please do your best to support us over there because it helps us make more stuff over here. Patreon.com/happy/sadconfused. Okay. Today, as I said... It is a rare treat to get either of these guys on the, on a podcast, on a long form conversation, let alone the two of them together. But I was so honored that Jesse Plemons and
2:14 Josh Horowitz? Emma Stone joined me in this recording that took place at the Telluride Film Festival. You guys have heard me talk about Telluride before, one of my favorite places on earth. Begonia premiered there. Was it at Venice first? I think it was at Venice and then it came to Telluride. But it was, it is one of my favorites of the year. It's a wild ride. It is from Yorgos Lanthimos, so you should expect nothing less. I will say it is in some ways, though, I wouldn't say, I would never say it's conventional. Yorgos doesn't make conventional, but it is a familiar type of movie. It's a kidnapping movie. It
2:53 Josh Horowitz? is a drama with some dark comedy to it. Jesse plays a guy that feels very wronged and kidnaps an executive played by Emma Stone that he, he places a lot of the blame in his personal life for. I want to say much more than that, except to say they both deliver exceptional performances, even by their very, very high standards. I hope they're both in the awards conversation, not that that thing ultimately matters, but in my, for my money, they're as good performances as I've seen this year. I'm obsessed, as I said. And Emma hasn't been on the pod for a long while. I, you know, I go way back
3:35 Josh Horowitz? with both of these folks, Emma especially. I mean, all my MTV stuff way back when, kind of my rise at MTV coincided with the rise of Emma Stone. So I always appreciate her. I think this was like the only conversation like this she did at Telluride. So that meant a lot. And Jesse is somebody that I, I just think is one of the great talents and this might be his best performance yet. And that, yes, again, is saying something. So this is a really fun conversation about the film, but also these parallels in their careers and some other stuff that we get to. I think you're gonna dig it. I know you're gonna dig it. So yeah, again, straight from the Telluride Film Festival. And by the way, you know, no professional crew. This is like iPhones. So, you know, apologies if this isn't
4:19 Josh Horowitz? up to the high standards, video standards that we try to keep on the podcast, but I think you're gonna enjoy it nonetheless. Here is Emma Stone, Jesse Plemons and me talking Begonia. Enjoy.
4:32 Josh Horowitz? What are the adjectives to describe our conversations in the past? I've never done the two of you together. I don't know what's gonna happen.
4:38 Speaker 01 Anything could happen.
4:39 Josh Horowitz? This is happy sack infused royalty as far as I'm concerned.
4:43 Speaker 01 Thanks, Josh.
4:44 Speaker 04 Me? Us?
4:45 Josh Horowitz? Yes.
4:46 Speaker 04 I mean, yes.
4:47 Speaker 01 Aw, come on.
4:48 Josh Horowitz? She's an OG. She's an original. But in recent years, Jesse has become part of the club.
4:52 Speaker 04 How many times have you guys talked, you think?
4:54 Speaker 01 How many times have we talked?
4:55 Josh Horowitz? This probably goes back to like House Bunny is probably our first.
4:57 Speaker 01 But that was pre even like Happy Sack Confused.
5:00 Josh Horowitz? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
5:01 Speaker 04 You were in House Bunny?
5:02 Speaker 01 We've known each other for a long time. Jesse, how dare you?
5:04 Josh Horowitz? I'm sorry.
5:04 Speaker 01 Of course I was in House Bunny. What do you mean?
5:06 Speaker 04 I know that movie.
5:07 Josh Horowitz? You haven't studied the early works?
5:08 Speaker 01 We clearly don't know that movie very well.
5:10 Speaker 04 I think you're just so transformative.
5:12 Speaker 01 Oh, okay.
5:13 Josh Horowitz? Have you seen, by the way, it is the 20th anniversary of the new Partridge family. Congratulations.
5:17 Speaker 01 Thank you so much.
5:18 Josh Horowitz? I know there are a lot of festivities being planned.
5:19 Speaker 01 Yes.
5:20 Josh Horowitz? Yeah.
5:20 Speaker 01 Yes. There's a big party on the roof tonight if you'd like to come.
5:24 Josh Horowitz? A rager at Telluride.
5:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, there's a rager at Telluride.
5:27 Josh Horowitz? We are at the Telluride Film Festival for context, correct?
5:31 Speaker 01 Thank you.
5:31 Josh Horowitz? Is that where I am?
5:32 Speaker 01 Oh, is that where we are?
5:33 Josh Horowitz? Yeah.
5:34 Speaker 01 Okay, good.
5:34 Josh Horowitz? Go ahead. Check. Next check. We're talking about your fantastic new film Begonia from Yorgos Lanthimos.
5:41 Speaker 04 Check.
5:41 Josh Horowitz? Check. Any other things to tell the audience before we really dive into the deep stuff?
5:47 Speaker 04 Like I told you, I'm just having a great day.
5:50 Speaker 01 Jesse's been having the best day.
5:51 Josh Horowitz? Jesse, what's happening? You're enjoying film in a beautiful environment.
5:55 Speaker 04 And it's my first Telluride. And so many people have told me.
5:58 Josh Horowitz? Worth the mic for me.
5:59 Speaker 04 It is my first Telluride.
6:02 Speaker 01 ASMR.
6:03 Speaker 04 Have told me how much they look at the mic.
6:05 Josh Horowitz? That's too much. That's too much. Isn't it the best festival ever? You've heard, everyone's told you this before.
6:10 Speaker 04 Yeah. So many people have told me that's their favorite festival. And I see why now. It's just, I think partly because films aren't really in competition with one another. And they do this really sweet class photo at the beginning. I don't know, just very nice.
6:28 Josh Horowitz? Don't have to do too much of this.
6:30 Speaker 01 And so beautiful, like everywhere you go is gorgeous and then you can just, you're really relaxed and you can go see a bunch of movies.
6:37 Josh Horowitz? You, I was looking up both of your respective amazing careers in terms of film festivals. Was your first film festival super bad? Toronto? Do I have that right? Does that sound right?
6:48 Speaker 01 I don't know that I went to that.
6:49 Josh Horowitz? Really?
6:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:50 Josh Horowitz? Do you have any early memories of like a film festival? Because that's like, that's a moment, a shift in a career.
6:54 Speaker 01 I want to say that we went to Toronto for EZA.
6:58 Josh Horowitz? Okay.
6:58 Speaker 01 And I think that maybe was the first time I went to a film festival. I could be wrong. Don't quote me on that. No, you know what? Also, Zombieland went to Sitche's Film Festival and Fantastic Fest.
7:09 Josh Horowitz? That must have been.
7:10 Speaker 01 Which was really fun.
7:11 Josh Horowitz? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:11 Speaker 01 Um, but my first time at Telluride was for La La Land, so I hadn't been here before and it's, I love, I love being here.
7:20 Josh Horowitz? Just your first film festival experience for you?
7:23 Speaker 04 I'm just trying to remember.
7:27 Speaker 04 South by Southwest, maybe?
7:29 Speaker 01 Okay.
7:30 Speaker 04 That was early on.
7:31 Speaker 01 That makes sense as an Os tonight.
7:32 Speaker 04 Observing Report, maybe?
7:33 Josh Horowitz? Oh, sure. That sounds like a South by, definitely. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I was joking about like, you know, New Partridge Family, but like, I think back to your early days, like, I mean, think back, indulge me for a second, where you guys were, how you guys started out and where you sit today, working with the orgos, working with the best filmmakers repeatedly, like you guys get the best material, the best filmmakers. I mean, do you take stock of that occasionally of like, the beginnings versus where you are?
7:59 Speaker 01 No, we never think about that.
8:02 Speaker 04 Other people kind of have to.
8:03 Josh Horowitz? That's what I get for to remind you.
8:05 Speaker 04 And I, I appreciate it because, yeah, it truly, it truly just exceeded anything I ever had in mind.
8:17 Josh Horowitz? When you're on the set of.
8:18 Speaker 04 Of what could be possible.
8:19 Josh Horowitz? Walter Texas Ranger as a kid.
8:21 Speaker 04 Yeah.
8:22 Josh Horowitz? Are you thinking one day, Telluride? What was the aspiration? What was the dream then?
8:26 Speaker 04 Thinking about kicking that guy's butt.
8:30 Speaker 04 I was playing a bully. I played a lot of bullies.
8:32 Josh Horowitz? Okay, good.
8:34 Speaker 04 And then, but then he got revenge.
8:36 Josh Horowitz? Oh, no.
8:36 Speaker 04 Because Walter Texas Ranger taught him.
8:39 Josh Horowitz? A lesson.
8:40 Speaker 04 Well, he taught the kid that I was beating up how to get me back, so.
8:44 Josh Horowitz? Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
8:45 Speaker 04 It's okay. I had it coming.
8:48 Josh Horowitz? But like, what was the idea of success early on for each of you? Like, what were the early goals?
8:54 Speaker 01 My early goal was to be on a sitcom. I was like, that would be the greatest thing in the world, or to be on SNL.
9:00 Josh Horowitz? Right.
9:03 Speaker 01 It was very much comedy, and it was very much like television comedy. So it's been, to say that this is all surreal and crazy, and I never saw any of the sort of way that this has gone so far coming is like an understatement.
9:18 Josh Horowitz? Was it, was there a dream?
9:19 Speaker 01 I mean, my dream is still SNL, honestly. That didn't change. Well, hosting-
9:25 Speaker 04 And memorable episodes.
9:26 Speaker 01 I mean, hosting is so, is such a lucky break, because you do it for a week, and it's so relentless and hard, and then obviously, my husband worked at SNL for five years, and it's very different when someone is working there, as opposed to getting to come in, and they're treating you so nicely, and everything's great, but it's like, the grind of SNL, I'm just in awe of everyone that works there, in a really deep way. I always have been, but now I really have seen it up close, and it's just like, it's a miracle that they can put that show together every Saturday.
9:58 Josh Horowitz? This guy should host SNL. Jesse, you've never done it, have you?
10:01 Speaker 01 You've never hosted SNL?
10:02 Josh Horowitz? Does that intimidate you, scare you, excite you?
10:04 Speaker 01 Do you think you would do it?
10:05 Speaker 04 Yeah, all that, yeah.
10:08 Speaker 04 Do people turn down SNL?
10:09 Josh Horowitz? Some people do, yeah.
10:11 Speaker 01 Is there afraid of the live television aspect, or they don't think they're funny?
10:16 Speaker 04 I would try it. I'd give it a shot.
10:18 Speaker 01 You'd be great.
10:19 Speaker 04 I hope for the best.
10:20 Josh Horowitz? Okay, we're secreting into the universe today. So what was, outside of SNL, what was the dream TV show, early on, that you aspired to be on?
10:27 Speaker 04 It's really funny. I remember it specifically. And it was, Friday Night Lights was the first time that it occurred to me, maybe I could actually do this for a living, I think, because I started when I was a kid, and it was just, you know, fun, then, not that it isn't, no, but-
10:48 Speaker 01 Sucks now.
10:50 Josh Horowitz? Until today, when you got to actually see movies, and now this is a shift. It's fun again.
10:54 Speaker 04 It's fun again.
10:56 Speaker 01 As of today, when you're having a great day.
11:00 Speaker 04 Don't I look like I'm having fun?
11:01 Josh Horowitz? You do look like it. Yes, exactly.
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12:43 Josh Horowitz? Let's talk Begonia. Your movie's fantastic. I saw it the other day. Okay, I don't even know what the elevator pitch is. Because we don't want to tell them too much. What should the audience know going into Begonia? Because the title doesn't tell them much, or anything.
12:57 Speaker 04 No, you'd have to look it up, like I did. I had not heard that word before. So what's the elevator pitch?
13:05 Josh Horowitz? What do you think an audience should know going in?
13:08 Speaker 01 I want your elevator pitch.
13:10 Speaker 06 I know the logline too well.
13:11 Speaker 04 Just a couple crazy guys kidnapping a lady. That's good, right?
13:17 Josh Horowitz? Some wacky guys.
13:18 Speaker 04 Just two wacky guys.
13:20 Josh Horowitz? I think you're back at TV sitcom now.
13:22 Speaker 06 Two cuckoo dudes.
13:24 Speaker 04 I'd love to see that trailer.
13:27 Speaker 06 Grab a lady and take her to a basement. You guys are gonna love it.
13:34 Josh Horowitz? Was there an official elevator pitch? Was there a log line? There must have been a log line, obviously.
13:39 Speaker 01 Like an official log line for marketing purposes?
13:42 Josh Horowitz? Yeah, I don't know.
13:42 Speaker 01 No, I mean, the script, I think it was just we're kind of reading the script because we had both worked with Yorgos before. So it was kind of just like, hey, read this movie, you know?
13:52 Speaker 04 I think I did look up Save the Green Planet. And so I read that synopsis probably, but other than that, it was just a script.
14:01 Josh Horowitz? Is part of the joy, and there are a lot of reasons to do this. I mean, obviously, you both have worked with Yorgos and you know, that's always a fun time. But also like the, you referenced this in the Q and A the other day, like it has elements of a play. I mean, you guys are really, it's three actors for much of it. And just getting to dig in a single set for a really good portion of this film must have been an extraordinary opportunity.
14:23 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah. Well, that's, I know I did have that thought that it read like a play, but it's so gripping and compelling and constantly unfolding that it didn't feel like a typical play, you know? It felt really entertaining for a play, you know? And
14:45 Speaker 01 So Jesse hates plays.
14:48 Josh Horowitz? We're learning a lot about
14:49 Speaker 04 Boring plays. You know what I mean, guys?
14:52 Speaker 01 It feels like actually entertaining, unlike the play.
14:53 Josh Horowitz? Not one of those play plays.
14:57 Speaker 04 I love plays.
14:59 Speaker 01 I love plays too. But I, but I know what you mean. It feels very cinematic. Like it's, it really does feel like it needs that sort of cinema element to, to bring it to the next play. And, and watching the movie, I don't, I keep saying this about it, which sounds like such a stupid thing to say. Cause it's like, of course, and it is a stupid thing to say, but it like feels like a movie. Yeah. Because there's so much dialogue and there's so much kind of explaining going on. And there's so much action that it, it, um, it feels very heightened to me.
15:29 Josh Horowitz? It has a little like Yorgos meets Coen Brothers for me. There's a little heightened, like a, like a manic energy
15:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:35 Josh Horowitz? to it that like you kind of get wired into. I mean, I don't know if it's the telewriter, the altitude, but this is like, there's a lot of sad parts about this and disturbing parts about this, but it's, it's a very fun movie to watch. It's a very entertaining movie at the end of the day. I mean, how much do you guys, having worked with Yorgos before, obviously as a producer as well, like? Um, you know, talk about tone, about like what you're going for, what you want an audience to feel. Or is it's no, literally no discussion?
16:03 Speaker 01 No, I don't, I don't think I've ever heard him say, I want the audience to feel this.
16:07 Josh Horowitz? Right.
16:07 Speaker 04 No, but he will say with both kinds of kindness and Burgonia. It's a comedy.
16:16 Speaker 01 About everything. That's the most consistent note that he'll give you while you're doing a scene.
16:21 Speaker 04 It's a comedy.
16:24 Josh Horowitz? And how does that impact your performance?
16:27 Speaker 01 Divine. It's like he's here.
16:30 Josh Horowitz? It's a very niche stand-up routine, the Yorgos forty-five minute set that Jesse can do.
16:35 Speaker 01 No, it's literally only a ten second set. And I'm just saying that. Good night, everybody.
16:43 Josh Horowitz? The last time I saw both of you guys was for Kinds of Kindness. Obviously, like, the goals are different. Except, I mean, I would imagine making something like that, you know, that's gonna be a very particular audience and that's fine. Like, movies can serve different purposes. I mean, is that, is that on your mind that, like, again, like, the goal is different? Or does it matter, like, when you get into the material, when you're on set?
17:05 Speaker 01 I, I don't know that it changes anything for me, or like, or that, or that Yorgos particularly acts differently toward, you know, one or the other. I mean, Kinds of Kindness, he wrote with Themis. So, there's that added element of him being the writer of it as well.
17:24 Speaker 01 And Will Tracy wrote this. So like, or, you know, like, on, on Poor Things and The Favorite, Tony McNamara wrote the script, so.
17:33 Speaker 01 That's the only, like, distinguishing difference I can see is that the writer comes to visit that a lot.
17:37 Josh Horowitz? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I would imagine, like, even friends and family, like, reactions to Kinds of Kindness must have been fascinating. Like, to get, like, did you get interesting texts?
17:45 Speaker 01 You know who absolutely loved Kinds of Kindness so much was my mom. My mom loved it. She, like, really gets, gets Kinds of Kindness. Which I love.
17:56 Speaker 04 How do you feel about that?
17:57 Speaker 01 I love it. She's like, I'm, I, it's so funny. And I think I'm in love with Willem Dafoe. All right, mom, calm down. He's married. But, um, yeah, it was, it was, I loved, I loved her reaction and she's got really interesting, cool taste and so I was like, great. I mean, I loved it too.
18:18 Josh Horowitz? Has she seen this one?
18:20 Speaker 01 She's seen this one. She, she likes Kinds of Kindness better.
18:23 Josh Horowitz? There's some intense stuff.
18:24 Speaker 01 It's her favorite movie.
18:26 Josh Horowitz? For marketing purposes.
18:27 Speaker 01 No, she loves this one too.
18:29 Josh Horowitz? Is there a direct correlation in your experience of like how taxing a performance is versus how much satisfaction you get out of a film? Because this doesn't feel like, this must be intensely rewarding, but it's also not a walk in the park, I would imagine, for either of you.
18:46 Speaker 04 Sometimes that goes hand in hand, the whole taxing rewarding thing. Sometimes it doesn't.
18:52 Josh Horowitz? But back to hating the business.
18:56 Speaker 04 No, I mean, this, I think it's safe to say, was was taxing and hard. But at the exact same time, I mean, there were there were scenes from this, from Begonia, that were about the most fun I've ever had acting, just because the writing was so rich. And I mean, these scenes that we were able to play with one another and, you know, with Aiden, they were just so rich and layered. And and so, yeah, it was all of it, you know?
19:37 Josh Horowitz? What about for you? I would imagine like feeling like spent in the best possible way after a rewarding day on set is kind of a great feeling as an actor. Like you've left it all out on the table.
19:46 Speaker 01 It is for sure. I think, you know, with this, because this one was, yeah, it was it was definitely intense on a daily basis. It was sort of unrelentingly because from one day to the next, you do feel like exhausted when you go home from, you know, maintaining a certain level of whatever energy this this movie and this story require. But I think the most marked thing for me was the fact that there were so many monologues and there were such long scenes in all this dialogue that it sort of just felt like you're constantly running lines and making sure they're in your body so you can actually do your job and not sound like you're reciting.
20:25 Speaker 01 So that was a major, you know, beyond all the physical elements of it, that was the thing I was the most kind of worried about on a nightly basis after work was like, well, we're counting down till the monologue where I'm, I'm talking to him for six, seven pages and that, you know, whatever it might be. Um, or our dinner table scene, which was so long and so amazingly written and you just want to make sure you're not missing anything, you know. Um, so yeah, I mean, it's, it's taxing in a, in a wonderful way. Like I feel so lucky that this is my job. I've always feel insane saying like, God, it's so hard. It's like, it's also the best. It's such a dream.
21:05 Josh Horowitz? Does making a film that's dealing with like, our divided world dystopian kind of times that we're living in, help you deal with the dystopian times we're living in? Or does like marinating in that almost like, I don't know. I would imagine from your perspective, like, like film can be, your work can be a cathartic way to escape all of that, but this is about that.
21:27 Speaker 01 It's a really fascinating thing to get to do, to be asked and to ask yourself to go into these headspaces and live in the shoes of these people. It really is. I don't know if I ever find it necessarily cathartic or, or like therapy, but it, it definitely rewires my brain a bit afterwards. Um, I feel like I can look at certain things differently. Um, which is a really amazing thing to do because you really are just like trying to embody a completely different, you know, mindset and obviously finding all those parts that are already within yourself that, you know, apply to it. But what do you think, Jeffy? Oh, we call him Jeffy P. Lemmons.
22:10 Josh Horowitz? Oh, that's your new?
22:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:11 Josh Horowitz? That's like-
22:12 Speaker 04 Since kinds of kindness, yeah.
22:13 Josh Horowitz? Yeah, yeah. That's your DJ moniker?
22:14 Speaker 04 Changing it officially.
22:15 Speaker 01 Jeffy P.
22:16 Josh Horowitz? Right here, right now.
22:17 Speaker 01 An announcement on the Happy Sad Confused Podcast.
22:21 Josh Horowitz? Finally, an exclusive. Thank you, guys.
22:22 Speaker 01 Changed my name back a long time ago and he's changing his back too, to his birth name, Jeffy P. Lemmons.
22:30 Josh Horowitz? What were we talking about?
22:31 Speaker 04 Yes.
22:32 Josh Horowitz? As catharsis, as, uh, yeah.
22:35 Speaker 04 I, uh, and I, I think it's actually, the way I kind of explain it, think about it is it's just the most unique way to learn something. Because you're gathering all this information, you're just kind of following whatever is interesting to you when you're preparing for something. And then you're trying to like get inside of it and experience it in a way that is partially you, but partially outside of you. And so it's, that's what I'm always really grateful for is it does, I think, kind of
23:19 Speaker 04 shape who you are in some way, just because you spend so much time.
23:23 Josh Horowitz? Yeah.
23:24 Speaker 04 In some space, you know?
23:25 Josh Horowitz? Yeah.
23:26 Speaker 01 And there's also the, the really cool aspect of getting to learn new skills because you have to for a role. So like, learning to shoot a machine gun for Zombieland was crazy. Like, I've shot a machine gun. Or, or stunt driving. Or, uh, I had to learn to scuba for Kind of Kindness because I'm trapped at the bottom of a pool for seven hours. Like, and that was so meditative and exciting and now I'm like really excited to keep scuba diving. But it was something that I never probably would have.
23:53 Josh Horowitz? Right.
23:54 Speaker 01 Thought to do, had it not been for a character. So that's, you learn a lot of strange skills.
23:59 Josh Horowitz? You can join like the Mission Impossible force. You have like the resume, scuba diving, machine gun skills.
24:05 Speaker 04 But then.
24:06 Speaker 01 I'll be right there.
24:07 Speaker 04 Have you ever experienced something where you learn a new skill and you have to just do it so much that after the film?
24:15 Speaker 01 Never wanted to do that.
24:16 Speaker 04 I never want to. That was, I had a, uh, I had, I played a professional cyclist in this movie called The Program with the great Stephen Frears and Ben Foster and I played Floyd Landis. And I only had like a month to, um, to prep and lose a bunch of weight. And we were actually in Boulder, uh, for that training with Lance Armstrong, one of his actual trainers. And it was just such an intense experience trying to lose the weight and. Learn how to look like a professional cyclist that I don't think I really got on a bike until Bucogna. Or not, not, not for long. I know, and I actually enjoyed it again.
24:56 Josh Horowitz? Oh, good.
24:57 Speaker 04 It brought me back to it. So, full circle.
24:59 Speaker 01 I didn't have a pastel donata until, uh, like, two months ago, after Poor Things having to shove thirty in my mouth in a day. I was like, I never want to eat a Portuguese tart again. And then, you know what? I had one recently, and it was great. It was nice when you just eat one instead of thirty.
25:17 Josh Horowitz? Right, that's a recommended, yeah. Good, good tip for the audience, thank you for that.
25:20 Speaker 01 No problem, thanks, guys. Lots more tips.
25:23 Josh Horowitz? Let's talk about the really important stuff, shaving your head, which, like, it's a disproportionate, we can say, there's a disproportionate amount of fascination about physical transformations, I feel like, for film.
25:34 Speaker 04 You're very right.
25:34 Josh Horowitz? Versus the other stuff.
25:36 Speaker 01 It's always the case, yeah.
25:37 Speaker 04 Also, the word unrecognizable.
25:39 Josh Horowitz? Right.
25:40 Speaker 04 Gets thrown around a lot.
25:41 Josh Horowitz? A little overstated sometimes.
25:42 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's like, I don't know, it looks like him. Looks like her.
25:46 Speaker 01 Looks a lot like him. Unless someone's in, like, extreme prosthetics, it doesn't really, really make sense.
25:52 Josh Horowitz? So, when you did do that, and I remember, like, we, I think, talked at the time you had the baseball cap, like, was it intentionally trying to be secretive about it, or was it just, like, did you want it to be a surprise for the film? Was that the idea?
26:03 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, we had talked about it, because one of the, one of the fun things with Poor Things was that there, we were in Budapest, and no one had seen any imagery from the film, so when, when it came out, the, like, really, really, you know, like, floor-length hair was a fun kind of surprise. And I think we kind of felt that way about just the being fully bald, too. So, it was just, like, a couple months before I had a little bit of hair. I mean, this has been almost a year, and I thought it would be a lot longer by now.
26:29 Speaker 04 I did, too.
26:32 Speaker 01 It would have been if it was you, you grew hair quick.
26:34 Josh Horowitz? I was gonna say, not enough attention is paid to these locks in the film. Come on, Jesse. I've got, like, Jeff Bridges-level amazing hair.
26:41 Speaker 04 No, it wasn't all me.
26:42 Josh Horowitz? No?
26:42 Speaker 04 No.
26:43 Josh Horowitz? All movie secrets.
26:44 Speaker 04 Sorry.
26:44 Josh Horowitz? I don't know.
26:45 Speaker 04 Sorry, everybody. I was long.
26:46 Speaker 01 Unrecognizable.
26:47 Josh Horowitz? Yes. Let's talk about our own personal echo chambers, because that, there's a little bit of, you've talked a bit, a little bit about this, how we all have created, whether knowingly or not, like, this reductive kind of world we live in on social media, like, you know, my social media feed is just New York City bakeries and dog content. What, what's the algorithm feed either of you?
27:09 Speaker 01 Oh, I'm not telling you that.
27:13 Speaker 01 Oh, God.
27:14 Josh Horowitz? One little innocent taste.
27:18 Speaker 01 My, um, oh, mine's like alternately depressing and insane.
27:24 Josh Horowitz? Really?
27:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:25 Josh Horowitz? Yeah.
27:26 Speaker 01 Um, especially on my TikTok algorithm. That one's really terrifying.
27:33 Josh Horowitz? Okay.
27:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:34 Josh Horowitz? Jesse, are you, are you not taking the talk? Are you out there?
27:36 Speaker 04 No, not TikTok, but I'm just YouTube. A lot of photography videos.
27:42 Josh Horowitz? Yeah.
27:43 Speaker 04 Of all different kinds.
27:45 Speaker 01 He's a photographer.
27:48 Speaker 04 I mean.
27:49 Speaker 01 He's an amazing photographer.
27:50 Speaker 04 So it's mainly just photos of my, my two little dudes.
27:54 Speaker 01 No, you learned film photography and you've gotten so, like, you've become a bit of an expert.
28:01 Speaker 04 I wouldn't say that.
28:03 Speaker 01 Daddy Pig would say on Peppa.
28:05 Josh Horowitz? That's your algorithm, Peppa Pig?
28:06 Speaker 01 I'm a bit of an expert. There's definitely some Peppa in there.
28:11 Josh Horowitz? So, um.
28:11 Speaker 01 Having a four year old. I'm not watching it, I swear. I mean, I watch it with her.
28:15 Josh Horowitz? Right, right. Who among previous co-stars do you believe has the most potential to actually be an alien? You think? Who, who would you not be shocked by if they tomorrow said, by the way, I'm not from this planet?
28:26 Speaker 01 Willem.
28:28 Speaker 04 Yeah.
28:28 Josh Horowitz? Good call.
28:29 Speaker 01 Of course.
28:30 Josh Horowitz? Totally good call.
28:32 Speaker 04 But if they're like Willem, I'm cool with that.
28:34 Speaker 01 Me too. I hang out with them all the time. Beam me up.
28:37 Josh Horowitz? Amazing, amazing.
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30:05 Josh Horowitz? Okay, you're out and about in the world. What what comes up most nowadays for you, each of you respectively? Does it change according to what you've just done? Or are there constants that keep coming back that are referenced by by the public at a Starbucks or whatever? A wine that's quoted, something they want to ask you about?
30:25 Speaker 04 It's a few for me. I would say the most consistent are Breaking Bad, Friday Night Lights. But then I get a lot of Gary from Game Night.
30:38 Josh Horowitz? I'm obsessed with Gary.
30:40 Speaker 04 I get.
30:40 Josh Horowitz? Still my favorite gif of all time, I think, him just slipping back into the darkness. It's just.
30:47 Speaker 04 Gary, Civil War.
30:49 Josh Horowitz? Yeah.
30:49 Speaker 04 For a while.
30:51 Josh Horowitz? Do people still ask you about the Friday Night Lights murder? Do they still want to talk to you about it?
30:56 Speaker 04 Sometimes, you know, Hila, just watched all of Friday Night Lights.
31:02 Speaker 01 I bet she was obsessed with it.
31:04 Speaker 04 Yeah, she loved it. But we talked about that recently, our first AD on Begonia and kind of kindness. Yeah, occasionally.
31:14 Josh Horowitz? But because it does, I mean, for actors, I would imagine sometimes you're put in a weird spot where like, I don't know if you feel like you have to justify the actions of characters you've played 15 years ago. But like there are like these like moments, like whether it's like me at the end of Lala Land. Like, I would imagine still occasionally someone wants to say to you like, she should have ended up with Sebastian, you know, like Seb, like, or no, does that really go away?
31:34 Speaker 01 Not really. I don't really interact with a lot of people who are like telling me plot points of the film. It's more just like, you were in Lala Land. And I'm like, yeah. But I do get called Emma Watson all the time, all the time.
31:48 Josh Horowitz? Well, you were great in Harry Potter.
31:49 Speaker 01 Thank you.
31:52 Speaker 01 Thank you.
31:54 Josh Horowitz? Last time either of you had to audition for something, do you remember?
31:59 Speaker 01 Um, for, yeah.
32:04 Speaker 01 I mean, that doesn't look promising, does it?
32:06 Josh Horowitz? You remember?
32:06 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, I auditioned for The Favorite.
32:10 Josh Horowitz? Okay.
32:13 Josh Horowitz? Is it a relief that, that's probably that part of your existence is in the back, in the rearview mirror at this point? Like, was that something you felt a lot of tension about?
32:20 Speaker 01 Well, yes and no. I'm completely open to auditioning and I think it's actually a really helpful process. In a lot of ways, even though it's, you know, it's obviously brutal in a lot of ways, too. It does give you a chance to sort of test out the character.
32:35 Josh Horowitz? Yeah.
32:36 Speaker 01 That we maybe don't get as often anymore, which is a little scary because you're, someone's saying like, oh, I think you can do this. And you're like, fuck, can I do this? And it's something I really want to do, but there's no like process where they've seen you attempt it.
32:48 Josh Horowitz? And proving it to yourself, too, like in real time.
32:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, ki- kind of. You get this sort of, um, preview of what it will be for you or what places you'll go that is a little bit different now. Um, so.
33:04 Speaker 04 Yeah, I think it used to stress me out.
33:08 Speaker 04 The early, the early days of getting into that phase where I wasn't auditioning. I remember being pretty stressed. It's like, you're, you're sure?
33:19 Speaker 01 You're totally, because I'm not.
33:21 Josh Horowitz? You could probably do better.
33:22 Speaker 01 Totally.
33:23 Josh Horowitz? You feel good about this?
33:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:25 Josh Horowitz? What about imposter syndrome at this point? Do you ever feel like day one on a set, like, oh, this was a mistake?
33:30 Speaker 01 I only feel that.
33:31 Speaker 04 I'm always nervous, yeah.
33:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:34 Josh Horowitz? Really?
33:35 Speaker 04 Yeah. But I think that means you care.
33:38 Speaker 01 I was gonna say, it kind of freaks me out, uh, meeting actors who are like, oh, man, I'm just, I'm great. I'm so proud of the stuff I did there. Like, I just really.
33:47 Josh Horowitz? Killed it again.
33:47 Speaker 01 I feel so comfortable. I'm like, oh, boy, that must be.
33:51 Josh Horowitz? Yeah.
33:51 Speaker 01 I guess nice, but also it's a little scary.
33:54 Speaker 04 The only time I leave a set. Feeling like good or on a high is when I, when I'm, you know, thinking back and I finally re- like come to the realization like, I don't know what else I could have tried. That's a good feeling.
34:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
34:10 Speaker 04 That's the closest thing to like satisfaction.
34:13 Speaker 01 But even, even that, it's almost like the feeling that you have when you break up with somebody after a long time and you've tried everything. And then you still have to break up. It's that kind of feeling. It's like a relief, but you're also like, God, that sucks. You know, ouch. It could have been better, probably, but I tried all I could.
34:29 Josh Horowitz? Now it's done forever.
34:31 Speaker 01 Now it's done forever and people have to go see that.
34:33 Josh Horowitz? There was one other random thing I did want to mention about Begonja. Was this your first time singing Chapel Rohn in the car to yourself?
34:41 Speaker 01 Oh God, no, of course not.
34:43 Josh Horowitz? Do you have a go to song or artist that you find yourself singing to?
34:47 Speaker 01 Chapel Rohn.
34:48 Josh Horowitz? Really?
34:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, I did, I did suggest that song for the film, yeah.
34:52 Speaker 04 A few days ago, it was that other song that Sabrina Carver did.
34:57 Speaker 01 I could not stop singing. I'm working late because I'm a singer. And then Jeffy was like, oh my God, now it's in my head. I just kept singing it.
35:08 Josh Horowitz? I do want to close the loop on some, one conversation I had. I haven't talked to you on camera since, uh, the whole Spider-Man No Way Home thing because Andrew told me something amazing that I thought was fascinating. He lied to the world, of course, that he was going to be in that film. And then afterwards I talked to him about it and he said that he lied to you as well.
35:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:26 Josh Horowitz? Is that true? He, you asked him?
35:28 Speaker 01 I asked him if he was gonna be in that and he was like, I don't know what you're talking about. I was like, what? Oh, I guess that means no?
35:37 Josh Horowitz? Right.
35:37 Speaker 01 But it wasn't no, it was yes.
35:39 Josh Horowitz? That's, I guess, a dedication to something.
35:42 Speaker 01 Oh, good for him.
35:43 Josh Horowitz? Amazing.
35:43 Speaker 01 He kept it really close to the best.
35:45 Josh Horowitz? Did you ever see the film? Because it's kind of amazing that like there's an emotional moment in that film that has, you're obviously not in it, but really has to do with your character.
35:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:54 Josh Horowitz? In that film.
35:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, you know what? I actually have not seen it.
35:56 Josh Horowitz? Okay.
35:57 Speaker 01 I haven't seen it.
35:57 Josh Horowitz? Okay.
35:58 Speaker 01 No. It would be very emotional, I'm sure.
36:01 Josh Horowitz? Yeah.
36:01 Speaker 01 Yeah. But I heard it was fantastic. I will see it eventually.
36:07 Speaker 04 So where do we go from here, guys?
36:08 Speaker 01 That was the end of the interview. Thanks so much, Josh.
36:13 Josh Horowitz? Here's what I would imagine is kind of an emotional thing in a blockbuster. So you're gonna be playing Plutarch in this Hunger Games film, which obviously you knew Phil, you worked with Phil Hoffman. Is that part of the equation of like, I don't know, honoring what he did in those films and doing this part?
36:30 Speaker 04 I wasn't saying that because I wanted a question.
36:36 Josh Horowitz? That's what happens.
36:37 Speaker 01 Just to be clear, no comment.
36:43 Speaker 04 So, can you say that again?
36:47 Josh Horowitz? Well, joining this franchise as that particular character, having known Phil and worked with Phil, that adds a whole nother dimension, I would imagine, to taking on that character. Was that part of the equation of taking it on, like, oh, I get to kind of honor what he did and...
37:01 Speaker 04 It was one... I don't know if this makes sense, but it was actually one of the things that made me question if I wanted to do it.
37:11 Speaker 04 No offense, because I could just flash forward to the press and, you know, all of that. Which I don't mind, you know, I don't, it's fine. But I think I have such respect and admiration for him that, you know... And it's a thing that people have said, which doesn't quite compute to me, but is obviously really nice to hear. But, um, yeah, I think I just decided, you know what, I wanna do it. I like the part and I like the script and I like the director and the cast, so here we go.
37:48 Josh Horowitz? Is that the next gig?
37:50 Speaker 04 Mm-hmm.
37:50 Josh Horowitz? And uncharacteristically, I don't see anything, any future project that you're about to shoot. Are you taking a minute or do you have something next?
37:56 Speaker 01 I haven't done anything since Begonia, which has been kind of, kind of, uh, wild. We're producing, we're producing films, but I'm not, I'm not in them. But I'm doing two projects next year, which I guess I'm not supposed to talk about yet, because nobody knows about them, but I'm very excited for.
38:14 Josh Horowitz? But isn't that, your husband is gonna direct you in a film?
38:17 Speaker 01 That's a different thing.
38:18 Josh Horowitz? Okay.
38:19 Speaker 01 That's, yeah.
38:20 Josh Horowitz? Okay.
38:21 Speaker 01 Not including that, that idea in those, but yeah.
38:25 Josh Horowitz? Okay.
38:25 Speaker 01 Eventually I'll tell you, Josh.
38:26 Josh Horowitz? I know, I know.
38:27 Speaker 01 I'll give you a call.
38:28 Josh Horowitz? I'll wait it out, thank you. Okay, we're gonna end with this, the Happy Sad Confused Profoundly Random Questions. Tag team on this.
38:33 Speaker 01 I love random questions. Happy Sad Confused?
38:36 Speaker 04 Have you done this random question thing?
38:38 Josh Horowitz? No, she hasn't. She hasn't done the official podcast since 2016.
38:42 Speaker 01 We did random questions.
38:43 Josh Horowitz? We've done random questions for MTV, you're right. But this is a different random questions. Okay, here we go.
38:47 Speaker 01 Okay.
38:47 Josh Horowitz? Dogs or cats?
38:49 Speaker 01 Dogs.
38:50 Josh Horowitz? Correct answer, well done, okay.
38:51 Speaker 04 Sorry, Kirsten.
38:54 Speaker 01 Does she love cats?
38:55 Speaker 04 Yeah, she's a cat lady.
38:56 Speaker 01 Okay.
38:57 Josh Horowitz? Do you have both, or?
38:58 Speaker 04 Um, we did have a dog. He was an old beagle that passed away a little while ago. But yeah, she's had cats her whole life.
39:06 Josh Horowitz? Do either of you collect anything?
39:09 Speaker 01 Oh, that's a good question. I, I've been starting to collect souvenirs from places that I've been, but like really simple, like tourist shop souvenirs, like a bottle opener or like a keychain, things like that. So I try to do that everywhere I go now.
39:28 Speaker 01 I guess I don't really collect much else. Do you collect anything?
39:31 Speaker 04 Records and now.
39:33 Speaker 01 Cameras.
39:34 Speaker 04 Cameras and lenses and stuff like that.
39:36 Josh Horowitz? Nice.
39:37 Speaker 04 Yeah.
39:37 Josh Horowitz? Favorite video game of all time?
39:40 Speaker 01 Donkey, Donkey Kong Country, or Super Nintendo?
39:44 Speaker 04 Mario Kart.
39:45 Josh Horowitz? Love it. Uh, this is the Dakota Johnson Memorial Question. She asked me this, I ask everybody this. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?
39:53 Speaker 01 One bee in my butt.
39:56 Speaker 04 I think, I, I think I agree with that.
39:58 Speaker 01 At least it's just one.
39:59 Speaker 04 It's just one.
40:00 Josh Horowitz? Ninety-two percent of the answers are that.
40:02 Speaker 04 Really?
40:03 Josh Horowitz? Yeah, yeah, people go with that. What's the wallpaper on your phone?
40:07 Speaker 04 Oh.
40:08 Speaker 01 My kid.
40:09 Speaker 04 Mine too, but the, the app, I've had it for like probably six years because I will just never be beaten. It's a collage of my oldest, uh, son's face when he was a baby, just making every face imaginable. And it's just, it's the best.
40:27 Josh Horowitz? Be happy, sad, and confused faces perhaps?
40:29 Speaker 04 Yeah, all of us, yeah.
40:30 Josh Horowitz? Uh, last actor you were mistaken for, I guess it's?
40:33 Speaker 01 It's always Emma Watson.
40:37 Josh Horowitz? Currently?
40:39 Speaker 01 Oh, wait, I have a really quick, funny one. What, the, the day after my 28th birthday, I went to see Alan Cumming perform at like Carnegie Hall. And I was there with my friend Noah and someone came up and we were trying to find our seats and he said, hey, do you mind if I take a picture with you? And I was like, oh, sorry, we're just, we're trying to find our seats, whatever. And he was understandably a little pissed and he goes, all right, well, I loved you on Will and Grace.
41:05 Josh Horowitz? Wait, are you?
41:06 Speaker 01 Swear to God, he thought I was Deborah Messing. Yeah, he thought I was Deborah Messing. So I, I, I'm still called Deborah Messing too this day by Noah. It's been almost 10 years and I will always be Deborah.
41:17 Josh Horowitz? You get Deborah Messing too sometimes?
41:18 Speaker 01 Sometimes get Deborah.
41:20 Speaker 04 I do.
41:23 Speaker 04 I think there, what I'm, I don't know, it's like all the, all, all the people with sort of red hair.
41:31 Speaker 01 With a strawberry blonde.
41:32 Josh Horowitz? Right, right. Little orphaned.
41:34 Speaker 04 Even, yeah, even some guy that was like, yeah. Even some guy that was on a, like an MTV reality show, maybe.
41:44 Josh Horowitz? Gosh, okay.
41:45 Speaker 04 Yeah, just.
41:46 Speaker 01 You get Matt Damon too.
41:48 Speaker 04 Yeah, but people generally don't actually think I'm him.
41:53 Josh Horowitz? All right, we're gonna wrap it up with this, uh, worst noted director has ever given you. What comes to mind?
41:58 Speaker 04 I've, I've got one. But it, it, it was one that I witnessed. I can say where or who, but it was, I think, I think this scene's a little more.
42:14 Josh Horowitz? That, that clears up.
42:15 Speaker 04 That was bad.
42:22 Josh Horowitz? He didn't actually vomit, like, yeah.
42:27 Speaker 01 Oh, it's hard to, it's hard to think, there's been so many.
42:32 Josh Horowitz? Lie down, get comfortable. Where do you want to start?
42:34 Speaker 01 Exactly. I've got a lot to parse through with you, Josh.
42:39 Josh Horowitz? Is there a kind of direction that you can't stand? That just is not helpful?
42:45 Speaker 01 I think the hardest thing for me is when the director doesn't know what they want and they want to just try a bunch of stuff so they can figure out what they want. That is, that always freaks me out in a director.
42:55 Josh Horowitz? Right.
42:56 Speaker 01 You know, to not have a sort of, even if they haven't seen it yet, to be able to sort of guide it in that direction and not change their minds and like, let's just get 17 takes of something all different ways.
43:05 Speaker 04 Just to go all the way back around what you were doing in the beginning.
43:09 Speaker 01 It's just like, yeah, it really, that's what, that's the hardest for me is the feeling that they don't really, I like when they're a little bit more clear on what they're trying to do or trying to, you know, what we're trying to achieve here.
43:21 Josh Horowitz? Fair enough.
43:22 Speaker 01 So actually, I kind of love that note. I think this scene is...
43:25 Josh Horowitz? Very clear.
43:25 Speaker 04 You know what it means.
43:26 Speaker 01 I know exactly what it means and I'd be like, got it.
43:32 Josh Horowitz? Thank you guys for the time. I know you don't, you're not doing a lot of this while I tell you, right? Because there are better, more fun things to do, see movies and just enjoy the nature. But I appreciate both of you, truly.
43:41 Speaker 04 Always good chatting with you.
43:42 Speaker 01 Thank you for having us.
43:43 Josh Horowitz? And the movie is fantastic. Everybody check it out. Begonia, Jeffy P.
43:46 Speaker 01 Lemons.
43:47 Josh Horowitz? Jeffy P. Lemons, Emma, Emily, whatever you want.
43:50 Speaker 01 Emma, Emily, Stone, Rockstone.
43:54 Josh Horowitz? Thank you, guys. Appreciate you.
43:55 Speaker 01 Thank you so much.
43:58 Speaker 03 And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't prepared to do this by Josh.
44:18 Speaker 05 Hey, I'm Ashley, host of Crime Salad. And every week, my husband Ricky joins me as my partner in crime. We know the true crime space is crowded, so we skip the loud, bubbly small talk and get straight to the facts of the most gripping cases. If you want to see what we're all about, check out our recent two-parter deep dive, She Saved Him, Can You Save Her? Covering the baffling Rebecca Zahau case. If you want a true crime podcast that feels authentic and respects the details, come check us out. Search Crime Salad wherever you get your podcasts.
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