Tom Hiddleston, Vol. VI

Of course Tom Hiddleston is back! His latest film, THE LIFE OF CHUCK, is earning rave reviews so the man himself is here to talk about it, plus his return as Loki, his Everest adventure, Much Ado About Nothing, and what his favorite project in his career is. Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:28Speaker 01

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• 0:57Speaker 02

  Some people just shout Loki at me in the street or on airplanes. They just shout it.

• 1:02Josh Horowitz?

  What do you do? You just give them a little...

• 1:04Speaker 02

  Or they go, "Hey, Loki." And I go, "I'm Tom. Nice to meet you. What's your name?" And they go, "Loki." I go, "Your name is not Loki. What's your name?"

• 1:13Speaker 04

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 1:21Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys. It's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. We have one of our all-time greats on the pod. It's time to reunite with Tom Hiddleston. You knew it was coming. He's got a new movie, a celebrated new movie. It's called The Life of Chuck. Of course, I was going to catch up with one of our faves, Mr. Hiddleston. And he does not disappoint on this episode of Happy, Sad, Confused. Thanks, guys, as always, for listening or watching. Before we get into Tom, as always, let me remind you, patreon.com/happysadconfused is your friend if you want to dive into more things Happy, Sad, Confused. If you want the early access, yes, you get all the episodes before anybody else on the planet.

• 2:06Josh Horowitz?

  Plus, depending on the tier level you choose, exclusive merch, autographed posters, opportunities to ask questions of our guests, all sorts of fun stuff. Check it out. See if it's for you. And if you're so inclined, it helps us out on the podcast to make more of this for you.

• 2:25Josh Horowitz?

  This is gonna be the sixth episode with Mr. Hiddleston. And he, as I said, he never disappoints. He is a thoughtful gentleman. And look, if you've seen my work, you've probably seen my work with Tom. So you know that we get along. We know, you know, we have a long history. And this was a great chat because he is in the middle of things right now. And coming off of a West End run, A Much Too About Nothing, which we talk about. Going into, actually in the middle of production on this Everest film, which he does talk about. But also promoting in the small window, The Life of Chuck, which is a beautiful movie.

• 3:09Josh Horowitz?

  I got a chance to first see it in Toronto last year at the Toronto Film Festival. It won the Audience Award there. If you know anything about film festivals, you know that is very meaningful. We'll see what this portends for award season, but often the Audience Award winner is in the mix, in the mix. So we'll see. Fingers crossed for Tom and Mike Flanagan, who directed this one. It is a Stephen King adaptation, but think more Shawshank Redemption, Stand By Me, Stephen King. This is not horror. If anything, this is the other end of the spectrum. This is a very sweet, thoughtful, earnest, at time profound, very moving story of a ordinary life.

• 3:53Josh Horowitz?

  Told in three different sections, and Tom is indeed Chuck. It is an interesting role in that while he hangs over the entire film, he's actually not in the film a lot. Don't let that dissuade you. What he is in is fantastic. There is a huge dance sequence that doesn't reveal anything. I think it's in the trailers, in the marketing. But as Tom and I talked about, long history of Tom Hiddleston dancing, amusing all of us on the internet. I have personal experience with this. If you've seen my Slumber Party episode with Tom way back when. Him dancing on a bed for me. So I know the power of Tom Hiddleston dancing. And now the world will see it in a dramatic piece.

• 4:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, so we cover a lot about the film, about these new efforts, both on stage.

• 4:47Josh Horowitz?

  This Everest film, which sounds fascinating, his return to Marvel. Of course, we talked about Loki is back. Loki is back. So we tease a little bit of that. I also make Tom's brain explode and melt at the same time by forcing him to choose his greatest film TV project. Stay tuned for that one. It's a fun little piece of the of the conversation. So enjoy this. Most importantly, check out The Life of Chuck. Really special movie. I've always adored Mike Flanagan's work, and this is probably my favorite piece of his work. I mean, I've enjoyed some of the, you know, the limited series, but in terms of

• 5:30Josh Horowitz?

  the films, probably my favorite. And I've seen it a couple of times now, and it's just, it's moving and very unique. So couldn't recommend this one highly enough, and I hope you guys get a kick out of my reunion over Zoom with Mr. Tom Hiddleston. Enjoy. Hey, Tom, how's it going, man?

• 5:52Speaker 02

  How are you?

• 5:53Josh Horowitz?

  I'm so well. I'm sorry I couldn't be there in person, but it's good to see you regardless.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  It's great to see you. How's it going?

• 5:59Josh Horowitz?

  It's going well. It's going well. Obviously, one of my favorite people, one of my favorite movies in recent memory, we had to podcast. We weren't not gonna podcast.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  Absolutely, we did. Yeah, yeah. It was, here we are.

• 6:11Josh Horowitz?

  Here we are. So, okay, so you know I love this movie. This is a very special movie for a number of reasons. This is a movie that asks profound questions. It is, it wears its heart on its sleeve in a somewhat cynical age. I'm curious, I mean, you can't go through this experience of reading the script of making this movie without pondering the questions that Stephen King and Mike Flanagan are posing in this, in that, what is a life well-lived? What does it all mean? Did you kind of go through the motions and go through the existential crisis of that, of that script in a sense?

• 6:48Speaker 02

  Yes. Yes, I did. And truthfully, it's something that I think about all the time. Actually, I really, it's something I've often, I've long reflected on and thought about and always believed, but never expressed as eloquently and poetically and beautifully as this film does, which is kind of like just being aware of.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  The passing of time and that none of us are here for long. And life is is precious and fragile and and extraordinary and magical and full of of struggle and loss and grief and pain. That's true. And the world is hard. That's true, but it's also full of joy and it's full of love and connection. And, you know, my hunch is obviously I haven't been there yet, but I have a hunch that in the last hours of our lives, it's the joy and the love that remains. Um, and it's really the it's really the only it's the only game in town.

• 8:00Josh Horowitz?

  And a reminder to embrace the joy and find the joy in the small moments wherever you can find them.

• 8:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. And do the thing, do the thing that you need to do that gives you joy. Um, whether it's like math or dancing or playing the piano or running or painting or walking the dog or like whatever, whatever it is that gives you joy, do that because joy is actually transformative. It's as transformative a force as all the other things like, you know, they say that doubt is catching, that if you, you know, doubts are sort of catching, um, virus that people can and fear is catching, but joy is also catching. Uh, and it can, it can transform lives.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  Um, but yeah, I remember the first time I read the script and I remember exactly where I was and and the feeling it inspired in me and it was so, um, I was so moved by it because uh, it it's it seemed to.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  Express something I I have always believed, which is that there's no such thing as an ordinary life and that actually um inside the soul of every human being is an internal world of infinite possibility. And um that no matter how seemingly ordinary the exterior of a person, actually that person carries a universe inside them of connections, of people they love, of memories, of experiences, of of literature and music and movies and art. And and that all of that is uh is completely unique.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  And when that life comes to an end, so does that universe. Um, and I just was so, I thought narratively, it was so, it was, it constructed in such a way that was thrilling as well, because it speaks to so many of our contemporary anxieties about what's happening in the world. Um, but brings it back to, yeah, to to love and joy.

• 10:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, without without revealing too much, it's a is a very interestingly structured film. It is about a man, Chuck Huiplay, who, yeah, by all accounts is is leading an unremarkable, it's not a, it's not a, it's not, he's not going to be getting the headlines, he's just another guy.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:35Josh Horowitz?

  And this is looking at his life in reverse chronological order, and we're seeing the beginnings and indeed the end. And, you know, you talk about endings and hoping that, you know, we all experience love and we all feel that, those special, you know, surrounded by love in those moments. I mean, you have to go through, without revealing too much, we do see kind of, you know, Chuck at his end. We see him in that hospital bed, surrounded by family. Now, you're an actor, but you're there, but you're also, your job is to feel that. I mean, talk to me a little bit about what it's like to go through that.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:07Josh Horowitz?

  To feel that, to channel that, um, that's got to be a profound experience.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was was very surreal that day. Um, and um. It was, um, I had, I was, I was ably assisted by a really extraordinary team of hair and makeup artists who, who, you know, I went through the works that day and they made me look old and ill. Amy Forsyth and Katie Ballard and Addison. Addison, I've momentarily misplaced her last name, but I know you have one.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  That's middle age for you. But it was, after that, looking in the mirror

• 11:56Speaker 02

  was really strange because I'd spent four days dancing and feeling like athletic and agile and free. And then suddenly I was, I looked very, very old, much older than I feel. And it was really weird. It was a really strange, slightly, um, yeah, slightly unsettling feeling. And I felt my, my body started moving in a different way. And, um, yeah, it made me contemplate like the, this kind of, I had this insight, which of course we know, but we don't think about all the time, which is none of us,

• 12:38Speaker 02

  you and me, like, none of us know the day or the date that our lives will end. And we live with that uncertainty every day. And every day we wake up and we do the best we can with what we have. And you put your best foot forward and try to live with honesty and clarity and generosity and, and, um, purpose. Um, I guess we're redefining that purpose all the time, but, but to be playing that scene and inhabiting that moment was, was, uh, was unusual. But it struck me that Chuck is

• 13:17Speaker 02

  Very fortunate that he's surrounded by love at the end. Um, and in that, he is a rich man.

• 13:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's all any of us can hope for.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:29Josh Horowitz?

  Can you cite any films, we talk, we talk films always, our mutual loves of, of different movies, like a film that kind of posed these questions for you, either growing up or in recent years, that kind of like made you, I don't know, ask these big questions of yourself, of what life means, of what a life well-lived is, of mortality, of death.

• 13:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:47Josh Horowitz?

  You can't answer, you can't answer heat. Heat is not applicable in this manner.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  I won't, I won't. Oh, actually, it's two, two films come to mind, um, well, actually a couple. Um, and they're films I saw when I was younger, when I was at a very formative age, and it won't surprise you, the first one is, um, The Shawshank Redemption.

• 14:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  Um, which is obviously also Stephen King's story, um, based on Rita Hayworth and The Shawshank Redemption. But I remember watching that at the age of 14 and, um, I was at school and some friends and I, we'd gone to Blockbuster and rented it out and watched it together and it was, um, it, it just, I was found it so powerful and moving and, um, especially the last, what is the last 20 minutes or the last half an hour of that movie, which is really about the redemption aspect of it.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  And, um, the journey that Morgan Freeman's character, Red, goes on about understanding what's, uh, what matters in his life and who matters and what's worth living for. And it gave me a perspective on life that I think I hadn't ever really considered. Um, and it's still, and I, and it, and I found it incredibly moving and affecting. And I long thought of it as one of my favorite films. And then recently, very recently, I, I went back and watched it.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  And I was I was slightly apprehensive and because I thought maybe my memory is distorting the quality of this piece of work and um but it was even greater than I remember and it actually I was even more moved I was just like I was bawling by the end the the way he talks about friendship and um yeah I think we've talked about it before haven't we this movie?

• 15:53Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you know what it's funny as you were talking about that it occurred to me we haven't talked about Shawshank. You know what when we have talked about that I bet you could cite too is Castaway. Castaway as we're talking feels like in this canon.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah. Well, Castaway, like, you know, they're both about, in a way, they're moments of isolation and um you know, Red, when he's released from Shawshank and Tom Hanks's character, I can't remember the name of the character now, in um Castaway, they're both isolated and they're and they're and they had this sudden realization that they need connection and they need to be with the people they love and the people who matter that actually that's all that matters is is to be with those people. Um but yeah, that's one that I really, really think about.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Um another one it was I watched at a similar time was The Remains of the Day. Um which I I still find incredibly affecting and that's a slightly different emphasis in the way that um

• 17:00Josh Horowitz?

  But interesting connections to Chuck, as you say it, like a a quote unquote unremarkable life, right? Like the the background player that it lives the internal life as deep as we all do.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  Still waters run deep, but also the tragedy in a way of of um that that um that that character um is it Stevens? I think that's the name of the character. Um uh that his the tragedy is all the unlived life in a way that he's been so dedicated to. There's been so many multitudes uh contained in Anthony Hopkins's internal world. And it's only later in life he realizes that those multitudes haven't been expressed. Um but it's very poignant um.

• 17:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think cinema can do this thing, though. It can, it, that's what I, that's what lit my imagination when I was younger is, it is, it can talk to strangers in the most profound and intimate way about the biggest themes and questions. And all these films have done that, like, um, um, The Great Beauty did this to me by Paolo Sorrentino. Sure. Um, this sort of, um, that like, you know, a man in the, in the autumn of his years, looking back at, at the spring and realizing something new about what life, what his life meant.

• 18:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. And there's another Italian film that I was gonna talk about called The Son's Room. I don't know that one. La stanza di figlio. And it's about, um, it's, it's made by an Italian filmmaker called Nanny Moretti. And I saw it when I was a student at university and, and it's really about like, Nanny Moretti himself plays a, um, a psychotherapist who has a wife and two children and a son and daughter and, um, it's no spoiler because it happens so soon, but he loses his son.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  And it's really about how he has to refashion and rebuild and reshape his life and his family life in the wake of this aching hole. Um, and it's, I found it, like, it's incredibly moving piece of work. It's so honest, it's so, um, it's quite simple in a way, but of course, the subject matter isn't simple at all. Yeah. But yeah, that, that life is, um, and I don't mean to be morbid, but, but, but that actually a contemplation of the end of life can actually inspire an appreciation of the stuff of life and the business of living and an impetus to grab life with both

• 20:01Speaker 02

  hands and live with courage and live with heart and, um, um, and intention and, um, and to hold on to the people you love and the people who matter because that really is all we have in the end.

• 20:17Josh Horowitz?

  And dance a little more. That's my lesson for this.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:20Josh Horowitz?

  Because I don't dance, but maybe I'll dance a little more thanks to Tom.

• 20:29Josh Horowitz?

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• 21:11Josh Horowitz?

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• 21:54Josh Horowitz?

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• 22:38Josh Horowitz?

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• 23:22Josh Horowitz?

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• 23:56Josh Horowitz?

  I know you're talking a lot about dancing. Look, it did take up a lot of the work in this. Four of the five days was spent in this epic, inspiring sequence. Yeah. Look, in a divided world today, there are basically three... I think the world loves cute cat videos, Tom Cruise hanging out of planes, and Tom Hiddleston dancing. These are the things we can all, no matter race, creed, whatever, we all come together and say we love Tom Hiddleston dancing. Okay, I'll take your word for it. Have you accepted this? This is not a new phenomenon. This was before "Life of Chuck." You almost manifested this in a way. I don't... I mean, I think that... I don't know. That's very... That's...

• 24:37Speaker 02

  That's very, we'll have to do a poll, we'll have to do a poll to see if you're correct. Um, it's gonna be very one sided. Okay. Worth it. It's um, it's, I don't know, it's really weird, like, it's really interesting, my um.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  My history with dancing, it it's like, I I I think we all come into the world, like. Born to dance, like, I might, my my, I really believe that, like, it's a language we understand before we understand language. All children dance, and it's like a language that maybe we forget with the arrival of self-consciousness. Um, but um, I love, I, as far, as long as I can remember, I've loved dancing, I've loved music, it's music, music is the point. And dancing is the body's response to music, and um, I don't know, I just, I I I loved.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  I grew up watching an old VHS of um, a production of The Nutcracker by the Royal Scottish Ballet. And there are sequences in that that are imprinted on my imagination forever, um, of like incredibly, what I realize. Powerful athletes defying gravity and leaping through space to the strains of this iconic music. Um, and um, even in like, there there's an animation of The Snowman by Raymond Briggs. Where the the child character dances with the snowmen uh in um, in Lapland on Christmas Eve. And. Those are like, really like, at the back of my brain, these are early, early, early influences. Um.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  And then, I don't know, I sort of, I sort of didn't, I loved, there was a, there was a fun culture I grew up in. Of um, at least I gravitated towards as a teenager, where like, a lot of popular music was remixing. Um, uh, amazing Nile Rodgers disco classics from the seventies and like, these.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  Kind of French DJs were doing kind of fun stuff with it based out of Paris. And I just thought that I just was like, this is the coolest thing ever. And it was one of those that that music was something I discovered for myself. And we all have something like this in our lives where no one's told you to like it. No one's. You found it for yourself. Yeah, you found it for yourself. Yeah, and it's like. That's the best. And it's magic. You're like, I just love this. I can't explain why, I just love it. And I, you know, my, I was with friends who, you know, we used to just go out and, and listen to music and dance and stuff. And I used to dance with my sisters and cousins at family events and all that sort of stuff.

• 27:28Speaker 02

  But I've never really danced professionally. I, I, it's not something I have done like, it's not, you know. Somebody actually stopped me in the street during the pandemic. It's just really interesting. And I was like walking around in London in the park and somebody stopped me. It was just as things were starting to open up again and said, hey, you're the dancer. And I was like, no, no, I think you've confused me with someone else. I'm, I'm, I'm an actor. No, no, no, you're the dancer. I've seen you dancing. I was like, really? Okay, but I haven't really, I haven't danced in anything. I'd like, you know, this is my commitment to the mates of films.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  Anyway, there was something, he'd seen something online and it's really, it's just really curious that it's something that's associated itself with me and. Well, if you're going to be associated with anything, again, an expression of joy. This is a good thing. I, I, it's something I've always loved. And this particularly, I would say, was like, and was a new challenge because I never had the training that Chuck had. So I, I actually didn't have, I have, I didn't as a child, you know, have the, the training and the techniques and, and styles and rhythms that he knew. So I, so learning that was so thrilling because I, it gave me.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  First of all, immediate humility in meeting my limitations. But also extraordinary appreciation for dancers and the athleticism and precision that these styles require. And in preparation with Mandy Moore and Stephanie Powell, I did jazz, swing, the Charleston,

• 29:19Speaker 02

  bossa nova, salsa, samba, polka, quickstep.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  I'm probably forgetting some now, I remember the cha-cha, like the moonwalk, you know, all these things I've never done before. And the genius of the composition actually is that it's like, because it's a spontaneous explosion of joy, but it's also a tribute to everything that he ever loved. So it's all the Gene Kelly movies he watched as a child, it's the movies his grandmother taught him, it's Fred and Ginger, it's like, you know, so I was learning so much of it. And yeah, it was such a thrilling challenge to just try and get closer to the combination

• 30:08Speaker 02

  of total freedom and precision that dancing can sometimes entail. I just loved it.

• 30:17Josh Horowitz?

  As someone that's been immortalized in gifts with you of like, of clapping like an idiot while you dance on a bed in front of me, I feel like this is validated for stupidity. This is, now you're a pro.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  Yes, well, maybe you steered me towards it, Josh.

• 30:33Josh Horowitz?

  I'll take 1% credit, sure.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, because when you say, wow, you know, it's like you can take a horse to water and this horse drag it all down.

• 30:42Josh Horowitz?

  There you go. Me and Graham Norton can take some credit. I'll take it, I'll take it. Good company. Not to mention, look, I have no question here, but it's a cool note that your character, you're basically, your grandfather is Luke Skywalker, your grandmother is Sloan from Ferris Bueller. This is pretty awesome.

• 30:58Speaker 02

  Yes, it is, it is great. As someone born in the 80s, that's not lost on me. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, this whole company is like unbelievable.

• 31:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:12Speaker 02

  It's such an ensemble film and everyone gives such beautiful performances in it, I think.

• 31:19Josh Horowitz?

  It's remarkable. Yeah, I've gotten to know a little bit of the Flanagan crew and they're all fantastic. Give them all my love, please. I want to talk to you a little bit since we do have some time. And you've had an adventure recently I want to talk about briefly on stage. We never talked about that and I do want to talk about your adventure you're currently on or about to go on, which is a big one. You are doing this Everest film, this true life story

• 31:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:44Josh Horowitz?

  about Tenzing Norgay and Edmund Hillary.

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:48Josh Horowitz?

  The more I read about it, the more fascinating it is. This is from a documentary filmmaker who's now doing a narrative.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:53Josh Horowitz?

  And just talk to me, this has to be as much an adventure as an acting exercise for you. What's it been like so far?

• 32:01Speaker 02

  It's absolutely that. So we're about halfway through and it is the adventure of a lifetime. And again, I'm just kind of so grateful for the opportunity. I have been obsessed with Everest all my life. It's just the figure, the idea of it has always compelled my imagination. And I remember my dad telling me about like about Tenzing Norgay and Edmund Hillary when I was really young and the altitude and stuff. And the experience is so new and so thrilling because I'm doing things I've never done before.

• 32:45Speaker 02

  And I think we're telling a story that hasn't been told before in this way. And it's so extraordinary to think about that in May of 1953, a group of people, a group of extraordinary individuals came together and achieved the impossible and went into the unknown.

• 33:16Speaker 02

  After which it became known and possible. And the, it takes such imagination and courage to do that.

• 33:27Speaker 02

  Because nobody had been that high before, no one knew it was possible and the detail of the, of the expedition and the, the relationships between the different characters, you know, it was um

• 33:41Speaker 02

  a British, a British expedition that was essentially sponsored by the Royal Geographic Society and Nepal had only been open to um

• 33:54Speaker 02

  to essentially to um people travelling from the west to explore it for three or four years before that, I think it was nineteen forty nine, nineteen fifty. And all previous attempts on Everest had been from the um, the Chinese side, the Tibetan side. And um, so this was, this was completely uncharted territory and was led by a British Colonel called John Hunt. And there were, I think, um twenty odd western climbers, many of them British, two of them Kiwi and, and, and the extraordinary inclusion of Tenzing Norgay, who had climbed

• 34:39Speaker 02

  nearly summited with a Swiss climber called Raymond Lombard in nineteen fifty two. And he knew Everest better than anyone and had more experience on the mountain. And he was also in charge of the, of the Sherpas who were, there were many, many Sherpas who were, and you know, the Sherpa community is, were, were from the Himalayas, they were rooted there as a, a community, as a culture. And

• 35:10Speaker 02

  They were brilliant and natural mountaineers. And our story really centers Tenzing and centers the contribution of the Sherpas. And Jennifer Peetam, who's directing it, has such deep, deep, deep experience and knowledge of... She directed a documentary called Sherpa.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  And if you haven't seen it, it's absolutely brilliant. Really about Everest and about how approaching the idea of Everest and the mountain has changed over recent years. And yeah, and Tenzing's journey towards being that man in that moment on that mountain with those people and those relationships. And yeah, it's hard to... We haven't finished it yet.

• 36:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, no, no, I get it. But you're surrounded by some interesting Willem Dafoe, right?

• 36:10Speaker 02

  Willem Dafoe is playing John Hunt. Katrina Baugh is playing Jill Henderson, who was really influential in the selection of the team. She was someone who was based in that part of the world at that time.

• 36:29Josh Horowitz?

  If you need any Outlander talking points, the only person I might have interviewed more than you is Katrina Baugh.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  Okay, okay. Yeah, we did spend some time together as a group. I didn't... I've got to say, my talking points didn't incline in that direction.

• 36:45Josh Horowitz?

  I get it, you have more to talk, you have some time to talk about, you've got some other stuff.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  But it is an amazing... I have to say, it's like there is an ensemble of about 15 of us. And we're really closely bonded. And the thing that... The extraordinary thing that Jen has done is she's put us all in the environment. So we've actually just spent a month in Nepal. And I spent some time in the Kumbu Valley and in the foothills of Everest and in the Himalayas. And it's so inspiring. It's like, it's really humbling because you walk through that landscape and it's not possible... It's impossible not to be struck by the...

• 37:34Speaker 02

  Timelessness of these mountains.

• 37:36Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  And they are these giants that have been there for hundreds of years and will endure for hundreds more. And it's sort of like, we're only here for a brief time to walk amongst them. And so, yeah, we've all really, really bonded. And yeah, we have miles to go.

• 37:56Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing, metaphorically and literally.

• 37:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And Hillary was an extraordinary character, like, the more I learned about him, he was just like, really, really, really, really remarkable man. And also uniquely placed at the exact moment in time to be there. Yeah, really extraordinary guy.

• 38:23Josh Horowitz?

  We have time to talk about that one. You still have to finish the movie. I don't want to do the press junket now.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  Okay.

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• 40:35Josh Horowitz?

  Speaking of doing press for a movie that hasn't been shot yet, you're returning as a character we've talked about once or twice, Loki, in Avengers: Doomsday.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  I am.

• 40:44Josh Horowitz?

  We can say that.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  I can confirm.

• 40:46Josh Horowitz?

  There's the director's chair. We saw it.

• 40:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. First time that there's been that kind of confirmation. It's actually such a relief to be able to say, yes, I'm in the film.

• 40:55Josh Horowitz?

  When did you know? We obviously did the whole press tour at the end of the last season of Loki, which could very well, again like several times before, wrapped it up. People have been there forever.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:05Josh Horowitz?

  Holding the timelines together, but now we know we are going to see him again. Did you know back then that there were plans?

• 41:11Speaker 02

  No, I didn't know that. So I was sincere in my conviction that I thought it was the end. I wasn't lying to you, I promise.

• 41:19Josh Horowitz?

  I'm used to the lies. It's okay.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  No, I didn't know then. I didn't know what the plan was. And then, yeah, then I'm trying to think how long I've known. It's all kind of various periods of time have merged into one, but it's very exciting.

• 41:38Josh Horowitz?

  You're happy with what you get to play in this one, whether you've seen the finish? The script is a moving document on these kind of things, I get it, but you're happy with what you know about Loki and the story?

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 41:53Josh Horowitz?

  Or do you not know anything still?

• 41:55Speaker 02

  No, I do know some things. I know some things. Um, and, um, yeah, it's, it's like, it, you know, I still feel like I can't, it's an extraordinary privilege to still be on the team. And to, and there's more, there's more stories to tell. And, um, and you know this, but like, I feel like the character has grown as I've grown and, um, it's genuinely an honor to still be like, you know, in the squad.

• 42:27Josh Horowitz?

  Just don't let them kill you again. Look, if you're gonna go out at this point, just ride off on a horse, go on vacation. We can't have another Loki death. I can't do it.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  Okay. I'll tell the Russo's.

• 42:41Josh Horowitz?

  As one former Avengers big bad to another RDJ, what do you think about Downey coming back as Doom? This is amazing.

• 42:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is remarkable. Yeah, it's absolutely extraordinary. I didn't know that until the rest of the world knew that. That was something, I think that was something that was completely under wraps until it wasn't.

• 43:02Josh Horowitz?

  So you're just at home and then you see it blowing up on your phone.

• 43:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I, I texted Kevin Feige with just like exclamation marks.

• 43:10Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  And then I thought, I better qualify that. And I said, RDJ, question mark, exclamation mark.

• 43:16Josh Horowitz?

  Just to clarify, I'm always excited to talk to Kevin, but this is long.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, it's, um, you know, he's, he's, Robert is like synonymous with the MCU. He's, he's at the center of it. And I think, um, it must be very thrilling to come back and, uh, and play with some different colors.

• 43:40Josh Horowitz?

  I was never able to make it to London to see you on stage. I'm bummed about that. I don't know if there are plans potentially to bring it to New York, but it sounds like it was a very special production, you and Haley. Uh, I've seen a lot of what Jamie Lloyd has done, including Betrayal, but also what he did at Sunset Boulevard. And this guy is remarkable.

• 43:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:58Josh Horowitz?

  Um, sounds like a very joyous, special experience.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've always wanted to do that play. I've always wanted to be in Much Ado About Nothing. Um, it's interesting. I, uh,

• 44:10Speaker 02

  Years ago, I was making The Hollow Crown and Simon Russell Beale was playing Falstaff in Henry IV Part One. And to my mind, Simon is the most accomplished Shakespearean that I've ever seen. And I'm such an admirer of his and have seen a lot of his work with Shakespeare on stage. And at one point, I said, so, you know, Simon, come on, which was your favourite one? Which was the best? Like, which was the most, which, which did you find the most kind of meaningful? I think I sort of half expected him to say like Hamlet or King Lear or, or Iago or something like that. And he said Benedict in Much Ado About Nothing.

• 44:55Speaker 02

  There is a magic in that play that is completely eternal, especially in, in, in the theatre. Don't let it pass you by. And I never forgot that. And I, but I've always loved it and I loved, and he knows this, because I've told him. But I remember going to see Kenneth Branagh's film when my, when I was a teenager and just feeling so, like, it made me so happy. It was just so warm-hearted and so fun and... Such a beautiful looking film. Yeah. Patrick Doyle's score, it's just like a romp. Yeah, it's just joy, it's so much, so much joy.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  And he, he had also said that there's a particular magic to doing it live because there are, and I said this to Hayley as we were doing it, and we both felt it. It's where you're rehearsing the play, it's like being on a rollercoaster that's 400 years old and you're like coming around the bend and you're like, this is really funny. Wait, this has been funny for 400 years. This is just cast iron funny. It's just gold. And there's something about the, the, the magic of the conceit of the play, which is two characters who, you know, sworn off the idea of romantic love.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  And marriage, partnership, it's not for me. Um, you know Benedict saying, I've got nothing against women. I just don't want to marry any of them, especially not that one. And her saying, I've got nothing against men, but I don't want to marry any of them, especially not him. And then all their friends conspiring to help them realize that actually they've been destined for each other the whole time. And it's, the structure of it is so, is so complete and so satisfying. And then the folly they both have to endure on the way there, I find so endearing. And it was such a joy to play it. Um, I, um, I did so many stupid things.

• 47:04Josh Horowitz?

  I'm so sad, I miss it. Is New York possible? Is that at some point?

• 47:08Speaker 02

  I, I, I, I don't, I don't want to say it's over because it would be too sad. So it's like, we're just, it's, um, it was such a happy experience for all of us. It was so joyful and the audiences who came to see it were amazing. Um, and Jamie Lloyd and his company, um, um, you know, they supported us with the most kind of joyous production. It was, it was, um, you know, we, we were, the, the curtain opened and, and the Theatre Royal Drury Lane was strewn with pink confetti. Um, and that's, and, and, and at one point an enormous inflatable heart was flown in.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  You know, because really that's what the play is. The play is, has a huge heart in the center of it. And it's about what happens at parties. Um, and, you know, parties are full of like, um, celebration and optimism. And then, oh, something's gone a bit too far over there. Um, and silliness and mistaken misunderstandings. And then hopefully like happily ever after. And, you know, there is the, it is the purest play in that way. Um, um, yeah, there was some very, um, it was something you'd have, you'd have approved of, I think. That like there was some

• 48:32Josh Horowitz?

  Stop talking because you're getting me more upset now. I'm happy for you, but I'm upset.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  Antics in it.

• 48:39Speaker 02

  There was a lot of dancing in it.

• 48:46Speaker 02

  There was some physical comedy.

• 48:47Josh Horowitz?

  There's gonna be dancing in every project. I don't know how you're gonna get it into the Everest project. Good luck.

• 48:53Speaker 02

  You never know. You never know. I'm sad you didn't see it, you would have loved it.

• 48:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I'm sure I would have. This is a rapid fire thing. I know you hate rapid fire. It's you're too thoughtful a man for it, but I'm gonna challenge you anyway. Not only that, I'm going to pose your own films against each other. This is I've been doing this with actors with impressive filmographies. This isn't saying which one's better. This is just like gut, like what you would today just choose off the shelf. Okay, let's just see how this goes.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  Choose off the shelf, saving in the great fire.

• 49:24Josh Horowitz?

  Whatever, yeah, whatever we say.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  And we're gonna win. You're just picking one over the other.

• 49:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's a tournament. You're gonna see how this works. So first of all, we're gonna go Loki, the series or Kong Skull Island.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  Loki.

• 49:39Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Midnight in Paris or War Horse?

• 49:44Speaker 02

  War Horse.

• 49:45Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Night Manager or I Saw the Light?

• 49:50Speaker 02

  Oh, you're killing me. That's so hard. Ah, God.

• 49:57Josh Horowitz?

  You can do it. It's not binding, don't worry.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  Okay. Actually, that my heart's slightly broken by that one.

• 50:06Josh Horowitz?

  Mission accomplished.

• 50:07Speaker 02

  I don't know what to do.

• 50:09Josh Horowitz?

  You can do it.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  I can't take them both, can I?

• 50:11Josh Horowitz?

  No. Today, just today, it's gonna be one. Tomorrow it's gonna be the other. Today it's gonna be.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  I Saw the Light?

• 50:18Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. And Crimson Peak or Only Lovers Left Alive?

• 50:22Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, Josh.

• 50:25Josh Horowitz?

  I know, I know, we're almost there, I promise.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  Only lovers left alive. Okay. But these are all by a hair. I mean, this is I get it. This is all a photo finish. I get it. You know those amazing, um, like 100 meter finals at the Olympics where they're like, we don't know who won this. We're gonna have to, we're gonna have to get an X-ray machine. We're gonna have to put the, the, the still under an X-ray to work out whose ear lobe was in. That's, this is where we are.

• 50:54Josh Horowitz?

  Don't worry, Guillermo del Toro won't be upset. It's gonna be okay. Uh, now we say, I saw the light, or only lovers left alive.

• 51:01Speaker 02

  Why?

• 51:01Josh Horowitz?

  We're building to the top.

• 51:02Speaker 02

  Why are you doing this to me?

• 51:04Josh Horowitz?

  I know. Jack Black had the exact same reaction to a penny consolation. He, his brain melted.

• 51:10Speaker 02

  Uh, what was the choice? I can't block it out.

• 51:12Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, I saw the light, or only lovers left alive.

• 51:24Josh Horowitz?

  Poor Tom. What am I doing to my friend? I'm so sorry.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  I saw the light.

• 51:30Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. And Loki or Warhorse?

• 51:37Josh Horowitz?

  We're almost there. We're anointing the champion for today.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  Uh, ah, Loki.

• 51:45Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Now for all the marbles, I guess it's Loki or I saw the light.

• 52:04Speaker 02

  You can do it. You made it this far. This is, this is, I, I didn't expect to feel like a spiritual pain today, but I'm feeling it now. I've broken you. Loki.

• 52:17Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. It's not binding. We love I saw the light. We love all of this.

• 52:21Speaker 02

  We do. This is a testament to you. Okay. Yeah.

• 52:24Josh Horowitz?

  But Loki won today.

• 52:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I suppose so. I suppose so, yeah. I I I had to say Loki because

• 52:39Speaker 02

  um I just poured my heart and soul into that show and it's uh it's like it's sort of like where I where I always wanted to get to and where I I sometimes didn't dare to dream I would be allowed to get to. Do you know?

• 52:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:57Speaker 02

  Um.

• 52:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  And like, well, my God, I played this guy for sixteen years. I'm what am I gonna do? Just put him on the shelf? No, you can't. You can't come to. This is my guy.

• 53:08Josh Horowitz?

  I feel like I've given.

• 53:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:09Josh Horowitz?

  I feel like I've given you material for your next therapy session. I'm so sorry.

• 53:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's like, you know, he's my companion. He's my.

• 53:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 53:18Speaker 02

  He's uh my, he's my other self.

• 53:21Josh Horowitz?

  He's your ride or die.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  He's my ride or die. I love that guy. Uh, people don't know.

• 53:25Josh Horowitz?

  Have you had?

• 53:25Speaker 02

  More people don't. Some people just shout Loki at me in the street or on airplanes. They just shout it.

• 53:31Josh Horowitz?

  What do you do? You just give them a little?

• 53:33Speaker 02

  Or they go, hey, Loki. And I go, I it's I'm Tom. And nice to meet you. What's your name? And they go, Loki. I go, your name is not Loki. What's your name?

• 53:43Josh Horowitz?

  We can do this all day if you want, but I'm Tom, you're.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  Exactly. It's at least important for me to know the distinction. It's fine if they don't, but I have to make, I have to make, I have to make them, help them understand.

• 53:55Josh Horowitz?

  So what's the ideal to to our general um directive to the public at large? What's the best way to catch Tom's eye in a nice polite, positive way? What do you want to hear? What's the interaction? What's the perfect fan encounter?

• 54:10Speaker 02

  Uh, it's usually not like loud. That's that's like, quiet is better.

• 54:18Josh Horowitz?

  Cause I can draw then ten other.

• 54:20Speaker 02

  Then I'm like, ha, help!

• 54:26Josh Horowitz?

  Tom! Yeah, not that, not that.

• 54:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like. Actually, yeah, somebody the other day on the way here actually was super classy about it, just like really quietly sidled up to me and said, I'm so sorry to disturb you. I just wanted to say hello to you because my wife and I are big fans and I didn't want, like, I wanted to be able to tell her that I had told you today. It was like so cool. And he was, and he said, my name is Mike. And I was like, oh, my name is Tom. And it was really nice. It was a really nice, it was a really nice, cool interaction, yeah.

• 55:04Josh Horowitz?

  I'm gonna let you go on this. You've been very busy, but have you watched anything? Have you been able to watch a film?

• 55:10Speaker 02

  I tell you my funniest thing, hang on.

• 55:12Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, go.

• 55:12Speaker 02

  I was flying to Kathmandu to start Everest. And I was on a flight, and we had to go, had to get, had to switch planes at one point. And the flight attendant was so sweet, halfway through the flight came up to me and really, really quietly and generously said, Mrs. Ilston, it's, it's so, I just wanted to say, like, I don't want to disturb you. I know you're on an airplane, but it's, you know, I'm such a fan of your work and it's such a, a pleasure to have you on our flight. And I was like, oh, that is so kind of you. Thank you so much. You didn't have to say that. And it was really generous of him. And he did it in such a cool way. And just said, I just wanted to come and say, you know,

• 55:55Speaker 02

  that we just, thank you for your work. And I was like, what a lovely thing. And there was a guy across the way who'd had a few, it's fine, he was enjoying the hospitality.

• 56:08Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 56:09Speaker 02

  And, and the flight attendant walked off. And he looked at me and called across, he went, am I supposed to know who you are? I went, no, no, no, you don't, no, I'm not, I'm no one. I know. Are you a rock star? No, I'm a hundred percent not a rock star. I'm just, why, why are you going to Deport? You're playing a gig. I, I reiterate, I'm not a rock star. I'm actually going trekking in foothills of the Himalayas. Are you? Oh, you'll love that. Aren't you a rock star though? And it didn't stop and I was, and at the end of the flight he said, I bet you're a rock star and you're not telling me. I'll find out. And I was like, okay. And we had a really interesting interaction for the next five hours where he just kept looking across with kind of skepticism.

• 56:52Speaker 02

  Um, because he thought I was a rock star. But I thought that was a good opener. Am I supposed to know who you are?

• 57:00Josh Horowitz?

  To be fair, you kind of are a rock star to all of us, Tom.

• 57:03Speaker 02

  You're very sweet, but I loved that. I, I, I, I did love that. I, I thought it was a great conversation starter. Am I supposed to?

• 57:10Josh Horowitz?

  I know who you are. I'm gonna do that next time I see you, okay?

• 57:13Speaker 02

  Should I know you? And I said, no, you really shouldn't. There's no, there's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't. Um, uh, it's, uh, I'm, I'm in fact, I'm happily anonymous in your universe. Um, and, um, yeah, so there you go. That was a fun one.

• 57:28Josh Horowitz?

  I have to let you go, buddy.

• 57:29Speaker 02

  What were you gonna say? Have I been watching things? Was that your question?

• 57:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I, I, I don't want to overstate my welcome, but yeah, if you, anything that you've loved lately, film or TV, I know you've been busy, but.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  Oof, I actually have been, I, I haven't watched anything. I can't remember the last thing I watched. Um, it's been a busy time.

• 57:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 57:53Speaker 02

  I really haven't watched anything. This is awful. What's the last thing I watched?

• 57:57Josh Horowitz?

  Um, you're behind on your Severance and White Lotus and the Pit and the, all these.

• 58:02Speaker 02

  I am so behind. My head is, my head is in all the Everest books.

• 58:06Josh Horowitz?

  I get it.

• 58:07Speaker 02

  And, um, there are so many of them and they're so cool. Um, uh, I guess like, you know, I watched Conquest, the, the film they made about it. That's, there's a wonderful old film, which is so sort of strange and, you know, they, they had a, um, a member of the expedition was up there, um, and he was shooting on film and they released it as a movie. It's called The Conquest of Everest. Um, I think you can find it somewhere on, online. It's on one of the streaming platforms, but it's so interesting. The, the footage they got and the way it's put together. Um.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the last thing I watched.

• 58:48Josh Horowitz?

  So it's all gonna be waiting for you when you get back from your adventure. Don't worry.

• 58:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:52Josh Horowitz?

  Don't worry. Um.

• 58:53Speaker 02

  There's a lot.

• 58:53Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you, buddy. I know. Look, you, you, you have a, a busy press day and you're only out from production for a little bit. So I appreciate you making the time for me.

• 59:00Speaker 02

  Always.

• 59:01Josh Horowitz?

  Congratulations.

• 59:02Speaker 02

  Always.

• 59:02Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you. Thank you, buddy. Uh, this is a very special one. Everybody seek it out. Tom Hiddleston, the life of Chuck, uh, to be continued on our 25th podcast, hopefully soon.

• 59:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 59:14Josh Horowitz?

  Enjoy the rest of your adventure.

• 59:14Speaker 02

  What number is this? Is this seven?

• 59:16Josh Horowitz?

  This is six, I think. This is six.

• 59:19Speaker 02

  Nice. Do I get, do I get a hat for that?

• 59:22Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you got the five timer. You don't get a hat every time. Getting greedy.

• 59:26Speaker 02

  Okay. I have to wait for 10. I'll wait for 10.

• 59:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, exactly. You'll get that.

• 59:30Speaker 02

  All right. Glad to be to see you. Glad to be to see you.

• 59:33Josh Horowitz?

  See you soon. Thank you.

• 59:34Speaker 02

  See you soon.

• 59:36Speaker 04

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  As wish lists grow, you know where to go. Head to Ulta Beauty. We have gifts they'll love from brands like Tato One and Rare Beauty by Selena Gomez. Shop beauty faves to give or keep from Shark Beauty, Sol de Janeiro and more. Not sure what they want? You can't go wrong with Baumann, Clinique or Redken. And don't forget to put yourself on the list. Book a salon moment or add a little more sparkle to your season. Shop holiday in store or at Ulta.com. Ulta Beauty.