Kit Connor

At barely 21 years of age, Kit Connor is one of the youngest guests in the history of Happy Sad Confused, but to look at his resume he's off to quite the impressive start. He talks about it all from HEARTSTOPPER and his Broadway debut in ROMEO & JULIET to his life-changing experience making WARFARE. UPCOMING EVENTS! April 12th -- C2E2 events in Chicago -- ⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠! April 14th -- Bryce Dallas Howard In New York -- ⁠Tickets here!⁠ SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Quince.com/happysadco⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for 365 day returns and free shipping! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Speaker 02

  The jobs that I've done over the last year, for example, Warfare and Romeo and Juliet, they've both been things that I haven't been sure if I could do them. And I came out the other end and feel like a much better actor as a result. So yeah, that's pretty exciting.

• 1:17Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 1:24Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, I'm Josh and this is Happy Sad Confused. Today's episode is with the one and only Kit Connor, Warfare, Romeo and Juliet, Heartstopper, and so much more. Thanks guys, as always, for tuning in, for listening, for watching, however you're enjoying the podcast, I appreciate you guys. Before we get to Kit, a few updates, things going on in the Happy Sad Confused universe. Just the other day, we went out to Miami and had our first Happy Sad Confused event out there at the Miami Film Festival. The folks out there were wonderful. Paul Feig was my guest. A delight. We screened another Simple Favor, his wild sequel to A Simple Favor. That episode will run a little bit closer to the film's release, so look out for that.

• 2:09Josh Horowitz?

  We have some exciting events coming up in Chicago. If you're watching this prior to April 12th and you're in the Chicago area, come on out because I'm hosting four different events at C2E2. The link is in the show bio, but whether you're a Robocop fan, Once Upon a Time, John Boyega, or Breakfast Club, which we're doing a 40th anniversary reunion, come on out, Chicago, because a lot of cool stuff coming there. And finally, the only other one I can mention is April 14th, and this might be actually sold out, even though it's a free event, but check in on the link, because we have Bryce Dallas Howard in New York City at the 92nd Street Y. We're screening her new film she directed called Pets, and then we're gonna have a live Happy Side

• 2:51Josh Horowitz?

  Confused chat, but maybe there's a standby list, I think, if you click on the link. Okay, let's talk about the main event, which is Kit Connor. He's somebody that I know a lot of people are justifiably obsessed with because he really came, not out of nowhere, because he'd been working since he was a little kid, but Heartstopper, of course, the Netflix series that became kind of a mini phenomenon, has really launched him. And since then, whether it's The Wild Robot, his turn in Romeo and Juliet onstage in New York, where he and Rachel Zegler were fantastic. We talk at length about that, by the way.

• 3:33Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, no spoilers, because Romeo and Juliet is Romeo and Juliet, but for those who don't know, this was kind of like a very modern, vibrant take on Romeo and Juliet, in which Kit, among other things, does a pull-up live onstage that gets the audience riled up. We talked about that in a bit, so there's a little context for you there. The main reason, though, Kit was catching up with me was his new film Warfare, which is opening in the States, I believe, Friday, April 11th. I want to say the UK the following week. On the 18th. Um, this is a really great film. I really enjoyed this one. I mean, enjoyed. It's not a fun movie by any means, but it's very well done.

• 4:17Josh Horowitz?

  This is inspired by true events. Ray Mendoza co-directed this alongside Alex Garland. You know, Alex Garland's work probably if you watch this podcast. It is an intense war film. It's in real time. No music. You are plunged in with this group of young men played by the likes of Charles Melton, uh, Cosmo Jarvis, Joe Quinn, Will Poulter,

• 4:44Josh Horowitz?

  Michael Gandolfini. I, I'm missing like six others. It's, it's a real who's who of young, talented men. And Kit is a part of that great ensemble. He's fantastic in it. And just again, shows the range that he's already exhibiting in his young career. So you'll be able to tell from this conversation. He's a sweet guy, very nice dude, uh, good head on his shoulders. And it's exciting to get to know him early on in his career because I know it's only going to get better from here. So without any further ado, here is, uh, his debut on Happy, Sad, Confused. Enjoy me and Kit Connor.

• 5:25Josh Horowitz?

  Kit, Kit, there's no formal introduction, but welcome officially to Happy, Sad, Confused for the first time. It's been a long time coming, man. It has, it has. I've been, been, been looking forward to it. Same, same buddy. Uh, congratulations. We're talking warfare today. Uh, always a lot going on with you. We were just talking, you're sort of, sort of towards the end of the press tour, but before we get to warfare, can we talk a little postmortem on Romeo and Juliet? We can. Because we're, we're in New York. You spent a lot of time here. What's been the exit process out of that? I guess you kind of went into a big press tour, but like, was it tough to let go of that? Important experience?

• 6:00Speaker 02

  I mean, it was, you know, it was, it was tough to say goodbye to all of it, I suppose, you know. The, it was like a beautiful group of people. Um, got to be out here for like six months, which is the dream. Um, and obviously I do, I miss getting to do Shakespeare every day. You know, that was, that was the kind of, always the highlight for me. So, yeah, it's been, it's, it's been nice, don't get me wrong to, I always think that when you do a job, it, the sign is if you finish and you feel like you could do another week.

• 6:32Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 6:32Speaker 02

  That's probably the right time to finish.

• 6:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  Um, so I feel like we finished it at just the right time. Uh, before our bodies completely, you know, disintegrated. But, yeah, it was, it was amazing and it was really, yeah, it was really cool.

• 6:46Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, yeah, I got a chance to see it. It was, it was also a special production and you and Rachel killed it and just the nature of it. And as you well know, um, you brought in like a really cool, like a younger audience.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:57Josh Horowitz?

  The energy in that theater, I see a lot of Broadway. I don't see a lot of Broadway with that kind of energy in the theater. That must have kept you guys going night after night.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  It was really cool. You almost, it was hard not to sort of take it for granted after a certain amount of time because there was this, you know, that kind of felt like our Broadway experience, you know, it felt, it felt like Broadway was young in our eyes.

• 7:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  Um, but definitely in hindsight and sort of from a outside perspective, it's, it, it, it is kind of extraordinary what that production was able to achieve in that way.

• 7:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  Bringing in such a young crowd and as you say, like having that kind of energy, especially in that, in that theater, it's.

• 7:36Josh Horowitz?

  In the round, which was cool, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  Having that kind of energy in the round is, is, is pretty unreal.

• 7:41Josh Horowitz?

  Was the energy ever too much? Cause I feel like there's always like a tipping point where like some of the audience actually, actually does think they're part of the show.

• 7:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, there was, you know, it's, that's kind of the best thing is the fact that with theater you have, you know, depending on the audience, it could be a completely different show. Um, and there were some nights where we just, it was, it was quiet as a mouse. And there were some nights where it was absolutely roaring and you just, you just kind of take it as it is, really. Um, like our last show was. Uh, our penultimate show was on a Saturday night, so that was kind of the one that we were really excited for because it felt like we could just kind of leave everything on the floor. And then the, the Sunday matinee was our last show and the audience were just, you know, they were so generous, um, almost to a point where, you know, the show probably

• 8:32Speaker 02

  was maybe 10 minutes longer than normal because it was just so much, so much reaction, so much, so much, uh, yeah, so vocal. It's, I mean, it's, it, it really is like such a treat to be an actor and to be able to see that kind of reaction and, um, yeah, see the, the fruits of your labor, I suppose.

• 8:51Josh Horowitz?

  Who came to see the show that shocked you? I'm sure you had some backstage visitors that were like, wait, they were there? Or maybe you even saw them during the show?

• 8:58Speaker 02

  That's a good question.

• 9:00Josh Horowitz?

  There's gotta be a few.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  There were, there were a couple that I was pretty, pretty chuffed about. Um, we had, well, on our opening night, we had Oscar Isaac, uh, who's obviously a, you know, a good sort of friend and collaborator of Sound Gold and Alex Garland as well. Um, so I-

• 9:18Josh Horowitz?

  And borderline obsession of Rachel Zegler's too, let's just say.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, yes. Yeah, probably. I, I seem to remember her seeing him on, on opening night and sort of, uh, immediately coming offstage and screaming or something like that.

• 9:31Josh Horowitz?

  Sure, that sounds about right, yeah.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that was pretty cool. That was pretty cool to see him. I'm, I'm sure there were many, many others that I was, uh, you know, I mean, honestly, I was just chuffed that anyone came to see it. That was always my kind of reaction was, oh, thank you for coming. Um, but yeah, that was, that was cool.

• 9:48Josh Horowitz?

  And I, we have to address, I know you've talked a lot about this. Did you anticipate the, the fever around the pull-up? Was it when you were in rehearsals, were like, this is gonna be a moment in the show?

• 9:58Speaker 02

  I thought that it would be, that, that, that my thought process behind the, the pull-up, so Sam wanted me to hang from the bar, that he had this image of, of, of hanging from the bar, which was always, you know, gonna be something, I think. And, and there was, uh, something exciting about that. But then again, my thought process as an actor was thinking like, you know, the whole point of the scene is Romeo is trying to get up to Juliet. He's trying to, he's trying to, uh, be with her. So if I'm, I was thinking, if I'm hanging there- I would try and kiss her, you know, I would try and and and do that, so uh there was a a point where I was thinking, am I gonna be able to do that?

• 10:42Speaker 02

  And then it became something that was, you know, a possibility, so I just thought it was actually a really beautiful way to kind of bookend the the the scene.

• 10:49Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  Um, but I didn't anticipate it to to be sort of what it ended up being.

• 10:55Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Uh, and we had that first, I remember we had our first, um, I think our first sort of open dress.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  Uh, and it was absurd, like I just, I remember jumping up and catching the bar. And it was just like this.

• 11:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  This scream of of uh of excitement from the audience, and I just thought, oh, wow, I didn't expect that to be.

• 11:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, instinctive, they couldn't control themselves, it was just.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  I don't know about that, they just.

• 11:26Josh Horowitz?

  You probably heard me scream that night, yeah.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I I thought it was you.

• 11:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, well, yeah, I have a high-pitched scream that's very unique.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly, no, but it was, and then the the pull-up was just, uh, yeah, I I actually, I never got bored of it, a lot of the time when those things kind of really gain some traction and and become a bit of a moment in the play. Um, I feel like maybe a bit of resentment can can can can build, but it never did for me with the with the pull-up, I think I actually, just because I also, I, that was kind of my idea, and I was like, I like it, I still like it as a, as a, um, as a decision.

• 12:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, and creatively, you're right, it it makes sense, it's not like you're just showing off like, yeah, I go to the gym, no, it actually narratively makes sense.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Maybe sometimes it did come across that way, but but, hey.

• 12:15Josh Horowitz?

  When you started to do ten of them, it was like, okay, we get it.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, when I was doing it with one hand, that was a bit much, uh, no, yeah, it was, it was, I I still. I like talking about that bit because I think it's a nice moment.

• 12:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, a little set apart among many things about that production. Now coming off of it, I don't know if you looked at other Romeos going in, but is there, if you inevitably run into Leo, that's like a conversation you can actually now have.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's kind of one of the beauties again of the role is that so many people, like so many of my heroes have played it and so many people that I respect.

• 12:55Josh Horowitz?

  Did you resist looking at stuff like that? I'm sure you'd seen the Baz Luhrmann film, but did you go back and look again? Or were you like, I need to start fresh and do my own thing?

• 13:02Speaker 02

  I tried to stay away. You know, I was also very tempted to watch the production in London because that was happening while I was shooting Warfare and while I was prepping for the play. So I was sort of, I was thinking, oh, I'd love to go and see it. But then I thought, would it affect me in some way? Would it affect my performance or just give me unnecessary amounts of anxiety? I don't know. So I tried to stay away. But I'd seen, obviously, I'd seen the Josh O'Connor Romeo. I'd seen a good few renditions of it before the fact.

• 13:38Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so I mean, it's kind of very telling, I think, for an actor to talk about a one-two punch like Romeo and Juliet on Broadway and then something like Warfare from Ray Mendoza and Alex Garland. I mean, this is like, obviously, the material couldn't be more different, but it really speaks to the kind of opportunities you're getting, the kind of things you're gravitating towards. This is a phenomenal piece of work. I'm sure you're an Alex Garland fan. We all are. This guy knows what he's doing.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  Hard not to be.

• 14:04Josh Horowitz?

  So talk to me a little bit about, like, you know, in the last couple of years especially, you, for the first time in your career, are getting choices. Like, you're being able to steer your own ship. So talk to me a little bit about where you've been at in kind of choosing to do Broadway, choosing to do an Alex Garland film. What's been your guiding force, guiding light as you kind of tried to steer your career in this period?

• 14:29Speaker 02

  Good question. I suppose, you know...

• 14:33Speaker 02

  What I've been saying a lot recently is kind of my ethos in terms of my direction and the choices that I'm trying to make is all about, you know, variety and stretching myself as much as possible, kind of going in different directions, doing super, super different projects and working with super different people.

• 14:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  You know, like one of the most refreshing things about Warfare was it was a whole new process. We shot that film in a way that I certainly had never worked before and I don't know

• 15:05Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, not many have, period.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. But even outside of the boot camp, which is obviously unorthodox, there was just something about the ethos on that set and the energy behind that that was really kind of anti-Hollywood in a way and anti the way that a normal film set would operate. So that was really refreshing and then going and doing Romeo and Juliet, for example, was a whole new, you know, a whole new.

• 15:37Josh Horowitz?

  And that's a test. You're testing yourself in both of these cases in different ways.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wanted to be able to know if I could do it. And if I didn't, then I, if I didn't feel like I could by the end of it, then I probably would have been like, okay, let's go back to the drawing board and, you know, maybe see what else we can do.

• 15:55Josh Horowitz?

  Luckily, we can say two for two of these.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:58Josh Horowitz?

  But I mean, and to educate the audience a little bit on Warfare, this is an amazing ensemble of young actors and that's part of it. It's like, I think you're alluding to this, kind of everyone has to leave their ego at the door to a degree.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 16:07Josh Horowitz?

  Because you're all like kind of at very similar stages of like getting all these amazing opportunities.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:12Josh Horowitz?

  Whether it's Santino, Charles Melton, Cosmo Jarvis, Joe Quinn, I'm missing like six others.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:19Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, are there nerves going into that atmosphere? This is like, you know, a lot of testosterone, a lot of guys that like have accomplished a lot, that could argue they are the alpha. I mean, how quickly does that go away when you enter? A situation like this.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  It's interesting with Warfare, because I did have those kind of nerves going in, you know, there were plenty of things that could have gone wrong. And also, again, I had, you know, the classic sort of imposter syndrome of, do I deserve to be here?

• 16:51Josh Horowitz?

  You're the youngest in the group.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  Youngest in the group, am I gonna fit in? Like, am I good enough to be able to kind of keep up with these guys?

• 16:59Speaker 02

  But I remember, I often get quite nervous, sort of, in the drive into the first day.

• 17:04Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Or something like that.

• 17:06Josh Horowitz?

  It's all the anticipation, until you're actually there.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  Exactly. And I remember the day before our first day of boot camp, I was in the car on the way to our hotel that we were all gonna stay at for the next two months. And I wasn't nervous, for some reason. I still don't really know why, but I wasn't nervous.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  And then that first day that we all spent together at the hotel, getting to know each other a little bit, and we ended up, you know, booking it with shaving our heads that night.

• 17:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  There was a real moment where I was thinking, oh yeah, these guys are really, really cool, really lovely.

• 17:47Speaker 02

  I feel like we're gonna really all get on. And I had this feeling, like, this is gonna be something really special, that's gonna stick with me for a while.

• 17:57Josh Horowitz?

  Except for Polter. Polter's an asshole.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  He's got an awful reputation as well.

• 18:02Josh Horowitz?

  He really might be the nicest human being on the planet. It's kind of insane.

• 18:04Speaker 02

  He is, he is. He's like, I had heard, and I'd met him a couple times before, and he had been like so unbelievably lovely to me. And we met again, final time, right before Warfare, just to kind of talk it through and see what, just again, get to know each other a little bit better. And he does have that reputation of being like the kind of nicest guy in Hollywood. And unfortunately, it's unbelievably true. He is...

• 18:29Josh Horowitz?

  You're giving him a run for the money. You're pretty nice yourself, don't worry.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  It's, if I can be half as nice as him, then that'll be an achievement. Because he is, he's, he's, he's just an incredibly good man.

• 18:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  With so much love and so humble. I mean, he is... Unbelievable in this film.

• 18:48Josh Horowitz?

  I know. Are you all, or have you seen him in Detroit? I mean, playing the most despicable human being ever, like.

• 18:53Speaker 02

  He's amazing. I really don't think, you know, I saw Death of a Unicorn as well. He's just like hilarious. He can do everything. And to be that talented and also that, um, just incredibly kind and humble is, is, is something that I... Yeah, one of the things about Warfare that I have taken away the most, I think, is the fact that I now have this just group of, of role models that I can kind of look up to in different ways. And they all have different things that they can kind of teach me.

• 19:28Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  And with him, he can teach me a lot, but I think Paramount is just how, uh, how, how good of a person he is.

• 19:35Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, and you all will have this marker forever, the experience. And also, again, this very pivotal, interesting point in your careers. It's one of those films that like, we were all gonna look back at like, that was that group at that time. Somehow they collected them all together. It's crazy this exists.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  It's, it's pretty cool. It is pretty cool.

• 19:57Josh Horowitz?

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• 20:42Josh Horowitz?

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• 20:54Josh Horowitz?

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• 21:34Josh Horowitz?

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• 23:01Josh Horowitz?

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• 23:25Josh Horowitz?

  You all shaved each other's heads, so it's kind of both for the film, obviously, but also a bonding exercise, I would imagine. So, whose head was your responsibility? Whose head did you put? Whose responsibility was Kit Connor's head?

• 23:37Speaker 02

  So, my head was mostly shaved. We all kind of did a little bit. We took turns. So, a lot of people would get shaved by maybe two people. I got shaved by Charles Melton and I believe it was either Will or Michael.

• 23:57Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, Michael Gandolfini.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was one of those really, I remember, it was a really silly moment. Because Will had already shaved his head prior to it. So, he was sort of just there for the ride. And we'd all kind of gotten a bit excited and we all went into Charles' hotel room. And, you know, because he had the clippers and everything. And I remember we were obviously making so much noise that Will had heard from his room and like knocked on the door and just came in. So, there was something, immediately we were like kids, you know? There was just something really exciting about, oh my god, we're gonna do this. This is gonna be, you know, this is the beginning of it all. But yeah, no, Charles shaved mine and I think maybe Michael.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  And I believe returned the favor with Charles and who else? I think I also had a hand in Michael's as well.

• 24:49Josh Horowitz?

  It's a lot of responsibility with these beautiful men. You don't want to destroy.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Beautiful hair, beautiful, beautiful hair. And it was, there was something slightly, I'm gonna say it was something slightly wrong about it, but it didn't feel wrong. It felt great. I mean, we also had no skill in it. So, I remember when I first had my head shaved and I looked in the mirror, I was like, oh wow, that's not good. I was like, that's really not a good look. And then luckily, we went to the hair and makeup trailer.

• 25:15Josh Horowitz?

  Can you clean this up a little bit?

• 25:16Speaker 02

  In the coming days. And we're able to, but those first couple of days of boot camp, we were all looking like we had, yeah, sort of hand snipped it ourselves, which was, which was pretty rough.

• 25:26Josh Horowitz?

  And what's the sort, is the tattoo thing for real? Did you all get?

• 25:29Speaker 02

  It's for real.

• 25:30Josh Horowitz?

  Border of the Ring style?

• 25:31Speaker 02

  We did, yeah. I mean, again, this is funny because we, most of us had got it, aside from Will, Joe and... Finn Bennett.

• 25:41Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, yeah.

• 25:42Speaker 02

  Who had all kind of had their own reasons to. Some of them just weren't there at the time that we were doing it and never got around to it. Some of them had their own reasons not to do it, but over the course of this press tour.

• 25:52Josh Horowitz?

  I saw Will revealed it during one of the interviews with Charles.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Joe revealed it, Finn, we did it on like Sunset Boulevard at about 2:30 in the morning. We just kind of piled into this tattoo parlor and, and he got his. So that I think means that we've all got it now, which is pretty, which is pretty.

• 26:10Josh Horowitz?

  Your first tattoo, or are you a tattoo guy?

• 26:11Speaker 02

  My first tattoo.

• 26:12Josh Horowitz?

  Had you ever considered a tattoo before?

• 26:15Speaker 02

  I, I was always like open to the idea, but again, I'm kind of, especially as an actor, you.

• 26:21Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  I feel like you either do it or you don't. And I think if I was gonna do it, then it had to be in a place that was, that I could hide it and stuff like that, so.

• 26:31Josh Horowitz?

  Do I want to ask where it is?

• 26:33Speaker 02

  Mine's right here, I can show you, it's, it's, there we are.

• 26:37Josh Horowitz?

  Wow, calling me, amazing, yeah.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  I also like mine because I don't have to take my trousers off to show people.

• 26:42Josh Horowitz?

  Fair enough.

• 26:42Speaker 02

  Which most of the others have to. There's a great picture of us all standing in the street in London, um, right after we got it and we were all showing it off.

• 26:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:52Speaker 02

  So you've got like half of these guys with their sort of trousers like just down to here.

• 26:57Josh Horowitz?

  And you get to just flex.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  And I just get to, I just get to do a little, a little flex of the bicep, which is always, always nice, it's my favorite thing to do.

• 27:04Josh Horowitz?

  Um, yeah, we've found any commonality in your career, clearly, that's it. Um, again, the nature of the film, I'm fascinated by this, and I think people will be when they see it. This is essentially in real time, this is, plunges you right into this unit. And it's a challenge, it's kind of an interesting thing because like there's no backstory for these characters. It's like, we're just like there and through the process of seeing this horrific incident, we kind of learn as we go who you all are.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:31Josh Horowitz?

  Did you find that like an interesting, I don't know, just an interesting challenge? Like, how am I going to convey who this guy is just by action? And there's no like stopping of like telling long stories about how I got here.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:43Josh Horowitz?

  It's just all through the moment.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was kind of one of the exciting things about it was the fact that the script was completely void of emotion. And, and, and, and character in that way. You know, there wasn't, it, it wasn't trying to do anything like that. The film also doesn't. The finished product doesn't try to, you know, we don't have any score.

• 28:05Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Um, we don't have, as you say, really any kind of backstory or really character development.

• 28:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  The, the, the filmmakers, you know, Alex and Ray aren't trying to, um, uh, they're not trying to kind of manipulate the audience into feeling any type of specific way. They're just presenting the facts. So I think the fact that there's no backstory and things like that is very much intentional. Cause it's, it's not trying to make you root for these characters any more than, than, than you want to.

• 28:39Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Um, and it just means that you see these characters go through the hour and a half event. And, um, kind of feel however you want to feel about it and feel however the, the, however you respond to it.

• 28:56Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:56Speaker 02

  So from an acting perspective, obviously we had to do that work of filling in the gaps almost. And connecting the dots in terms of differentiating our characters, kind of just discovering who these, who these guys were.

• 29:11Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  And who they are. So that was really cool. I mean, when I, I remember when I first read the script, I maybe had five, five lines on the page.

• 29:20Josh Horowitz?

  Wow.

• 29:22Speaker 02

  And it didn't matter because I was like, this is also, I was just like, I really want to be a part of this either way. But, but you could see that there was, you know, most characters didn't have many lines. It was just, um, their presence in that, in that, in that moment. And I think that, that's why it's such an ensemble piece, I think. Because there isn't really a lead necessarily, maybe De Faro playing Ray. Uh, but it's kind of just, uh, a Roman camera, seeing everyone.

• 29:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  Uh, seeing everyone do it.

• 29:56Josh Horowitz?

  It's really unique and I mean, like to your point, like I could hour in, I'm like, I think I saw Charles Melton, but where's Charles Melton? And then like. Without ruining anything, he's amazing in it, like to the third act, like fantastic. And it's also to your point of kind of stripping it back. I was really emotional by the end. It's a very emotional thing to kind of like, you're with these guys and, you know, the selflessness, the taking care of each other, the, it, it, it, it works. It's an experimental film in a way. It's a big swing and it's really unique. We've all seen a lot of war films.

• 30:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:32Josh Horowitz?

  This is a special one.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  I think, yeah, it's, I mean, it's a love story in a lot of ways. It was always a, you know, a love letter from, from Ray to Elliot, who obviously is, was kind of one of the, the, the reasons for making the film necessarily. Because obviously he, played by Cosmo Jarvis, he can't remember what happened. And it was obviously a monumental kind of moment in his, in his life. So, um, that was kind of fascinating and seeing that, the way that it all played out. But, but we, yeah, you just, you, I think it, it was our job as the actors to kind of find the humans in it.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  When you're trained to, to be, to be able to play a Navy SEAL.

• 31:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:19Speaker 02

  You know, that was what Ray really kind of taught us was how, how a Navy SEAL would, would act in this situation. And then we, the next job was then to work out how a human would react in those, in those situations and then kind of merging the two.

• 31:36Josh Horowitz?

  Sure, sure.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  Which was a really fascinating process.

• 31:40Josh Horowitz?

  All right, so luxury of time, let's do a little bit of the backstory, the Kid Connor backstory. So like, talk to me a little bit about growing up. You know, talk to your parents, talk to friends and family. Was it obvious early on that you were, you had this in you? Because from all accounts, you were a shy kid.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I, I, I very much was. I think I am still in a lot of ways. But I, I, um...

• 32:08Speaker 02

  I was a shy kid until you got me.

• 32:10Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  Kind of until you got to know me or until I was in a situation where I was kind of comfortable and then I was really loud and obnoxious.

• 32:19Josh Horowitz?

  No one between, yeah.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, apparently I was one of those kids that got naked a lot.

• 32:25Josh Horowitz?

  There he goes again, the clothes are off.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, one of the, yeah.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  Like we'd have like a babysitter coming in and, you know, interviewing for a job and I'd be just like running around naked and probably too old to be doing that as well, not even like a, not even like a baby.

• 32:38Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  Um, but, yeah, so I, I think maybe there was that sort of there, present for the people who really knew me. But yeah, I mean, my parents sent me to this Saturday stage school as a way of

• 32:52Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  maybe letting that out a bit more. Um, and it just kind of happened, I don't, you know, I don't think I even really discovered my love for it until um, I really got a closer look at it, you know, I started with commercials and was, was just, at that point, it was just, you kind of have to look cute and I think, you know, people would say you can kind of take direction relatively well, which at that point was, you know, be happy, be sad.

• 33:18Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  Look at the, look at this bar of chocolate and smile, you know, that kind of thing.

• 33:22Josh Horowitz?

  I, I can do that.

• 33:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it was, and it was, it was, you know, there was an art to it, but, but it was, it was, um, kind of just this really simple and it was a bit of fun and then it, it became something more and I think I was surrounded by incredibly talented actors and filmmakers and people like that and that, I think, inspired my love for it.

• 33:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  To a point where now I'm like completely obsessed with it.

• 33:48Josh Horowitz?

  I, yeah. I am obsessed with that kind of transition because I've talked to a lot of young performers, you know, I've known like Elle Fanning since she was 11 and to like see like the folks that kind of like, you, you're right, like child performers often i- is a very like naturalistic thing, you're just kind of like putting the camera on them and letting them be in the moment.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:07Josh Horowitz?

  But there has to be craft at some point that kind of enters into it.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  It's when you become less cute.

• 34:13Josh Horowitz?

  The ratio of cute to, exactly, exactly.

• 34:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, you go through the awkward teenage phase.

• 34:17Josh Horowitz?

  What, yeah, so was there a project or two that was a tipping point for you where you're like, I got to actually kind of? Bring the game up a little bit to compete.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that I was kind of doing two films at once in like maybe twenty eighteen.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  I was doing Rocket Man.

• 34:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  And a film called Little Joe.

• 34:41Speaker 02

  Two polar opposite films and very different scales and, you know, very different filmmakers and. But I think that both of them required a bit more, particularly Little Joe, just because it was a little bit more heady and a, you know, a bit more of a, maybe a bit more of a character piece in a way. And that that did kind of require a bit more thought, you know. And the way that we kind of approached it as actors and the way that Jessica Hesner approached it as a director was was very. Yeah, it was it was very.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  Unorthodox in a way, but it was it was it was really cool to kind of be there. And I think that was probably my first taste of the craft, you know.

• 35:30Josh Horowitz?

  When when Heartstopper comes around, is that just one of a sea of opportunities or did you put a lot of thought and effort into going after that at the time?

• 35:39Speaker 02

  It's interesting. I I had been taking a break from acting just before Heartstopper. Heartstopper was really my first job out of

• 35:48Speaker 02

  out of that break. I took a break for my GCSEs, which is, you know, the kind of British exams that you take when you're about sixteen. So I'd taken a break for the lead up to that and then Covid hit, so it was a it was that break became a lot longer.

• 36:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:05Speaker 02

  And maybe I'd done a couple of jobs throughout Covid to kind of dip my toes back in of like little theatre workshops and stuff, but then I did, I did, you know, I got that audition through for Heartstopper and it was just, you know, this really beautiful story. This really beautiful character and yeah, I was kind of desperate to also just desperate to get back in back into into the into the work.

• 36:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  So it kind of seemed like something that I. Yeah, I just really wanted to book it, basically.

• 36:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. It's so funny, because in many ways, like, and I'm sure you know this, it's like, as much as you go after cool stuff and you want to get the cool thing, like, you could have just as easily been in, like, for every Heartstopper, there are six shows like that.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 36:51Josh Horowitz?

  That are very generic.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:53Josh Horowitz?

  That don't have that kind of pedigree and intentionality and don't work.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:58Josh Horowitz?

  And you got the one that worked. That was very special.

• 37:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's so much luck and so much, you know, just kind of, you've got to be thankful for everything you're given. And luckily, you know, we treated it, we didn't expect it to be like that. So there wasn't that pressure going in, there wasn't that kind of, it was just a labor of love in a lot of ways. And I think that's kind of why it maybe caught on the way that it did. And it also just hit the world at a time when I think the world kind of needed a bit of...

• 37:28Josh Horowitz?

  It was definitely a comfort show, I think, during a time when we needed comfort.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Which is, you know, again, a bit of luck and also just something kind of, you know, a beautiful accident. But, yeah. But even, again, with Warfare, like, that was an audition. That was something that came through as a self-tape. And it was another thing that was almost similar to Heartstopper in that way, that was like, this feels like another step in my career that I really want to take and a new direction. And it was, again, I got lucky that it wasn't just a regular war film. It was something really, really special and really experimental. And, yeah, so I think in a similar way, it's always,

• 38:14Speaker 02

  everything's relative, you know, it always feels like you're the biggest you're ever gonna get.

• 38:18Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  And then something else comes in, you're like, oh my god, this changes everything, this is so exciting.

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• 39:33Josh Horowitz?

  So where are you at on like, you know, the chemistry thing? Because obviously you and Joe have it.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

• 39:39Josh Horowitz?

  Like, can that be manufactured? You obviously like each other a lot off camera too. You get along very well. I mean, do you remember the first couple of days and being like, oh, there's something, we have a connection that's gonna, that's gonna translate on screen?

• 39:52Speaker 02

  It's interesting. I had, it's such a nuanced conversation, the whole chemistry thing. Because like, you know, obviously the kind of simple answer is, is I don't think it can be manufactured.

• 40:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:05Speaker 02

  But I also think that, you know, I remember when, when, when Joe and I were first doing our kind of chemistry reads and, and I couldn't really tell. I, I couldn't, I wasn't sure.

• 40:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  You know, we didn't know each other at all. We're both quite, especially on first meeting, we're both quite timid people. I think we were both shitting ourselves. And we were both very nervous and I was, I was just kind of... Maybe I was too overwhelmed to to to clock whether or not there was chemistry, but but but they obviously thought that there was and and you know. Um, from that, I think we then began to work together and then then it was clear that these scenes were really.

• 40:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  Um, making sense and that the and that, you know, that we were getting on like really, really well. And he's obviously become one of my, one of my closest friends. But yeah, you you you kind of just, uh, yeah, it's it's it is one of those things, but I I don't think it can be manufactured, but. I also don't think it's as simple as just, you know, you start getting to know each other and and it's and it's there.

• 41:14Josh Horowitz?

  How plugged in are you at this point to kind of like, there's so many fan edits, the memes, the montage, the highs and haze montage, like it's literally, like, do you get that sent to you? Do you get a kick out of any of them?

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Well, the funny thing is, I mean, with all the highs and haze stuff, like we were talking, we were making jokes about that when we were shooting season one.

• 41:31Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, really?

• 41:31Speaker 02

  You know, we, I think we were all kind of like, we all love the show and and and all like see a lot of beauty in it. But we also, I think, were all able to laugh at ourselves and and uh, and and I think that that's kind of the beauty of it. So we were, you know, making those jokes ourselves. Um, so I kind of, yeah, it didn't surprise me at all. Uh, and I, especially when season one first came out, I was just like, oh, my God, this is kind of blowing up. This is crazy. And, um. And so I was very much, I was quite plugged in at the at that time to to all of that stuff. It was cool. It was nice to see that people were.

• 42:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  Not only connecting with it, but able to kind of see the the the fun in it as well, the.

• 42:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:14Josh Horowitz?

  And as the seasons have progressed and it's, you know, becomes more intimate, do you guys both have the same kind of like? Attitude of like, this is silly. We gotta get through this kind of a thing. Like, what's your attitude as like? Intimacy is required on screen, which is always going to be awkward, no matter what.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:28Josh Horowitz?

  Situation.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  We got lucky in the sense that it was such a slow build.

• 42:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  You know, because I think that intimacy is a is a is a tricky thing. Some actors find it easier than others and and, uh. You know, it was probably one of the first times, it wasn't the first time I'd had to do like an on-screen kiss, but it was, um. Certainly the most intimacy I'd ever had to done, uh, ever had to have done by that point in my career. So I was. I was a little bit like, okay, let's just try and. Feel our way through it. You know, we had a great intimacy coordinator, David Daughery, and we were just kind of able to

• 43:04Speaker 02

  take steps throughout the three seasons that we've done to get closer to a point where, you know, that third season, obviously, we, you know, we have sex. And it's a, it felt like a new step in that, in that journey, but definitely a very natural one.

• 43:23Josh Horowitz?

  I remember when I, I met you first at Comic Con. I lost all my nerd cred, by the way, in that interview because I called, the, the character you were being rumored for at the time was Hulk Ling, and I said Hulk Ing.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 43:34Josh Horowitz?

  And I'm like, I'm a nerd and I should know that, so I felt really badly.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  Hey, I mean, I know no better, you know, I, I think I maybe knew that name because I'd been asked about it a couple of times by friends, being like, hey, are you playing this role? I was like, not that I know of.

• 43:49Josh Horowitz?

  So is the closest we're gonna see you to a superhero in, from Heartstopper in the Captain America costume, or?

• 43:55Speaker 02

  I think certainly for a, for a while, yeah. Again, as far as I know, I, I very much kind of, again, Joe's, you know, doing that, and that's, that's, I'm kind of happy to watch from the sidelines for that for a little while.

• 44:07Josh Horowitz?

  The Captain America costume suited you, you looked great.

• 44:09Speaker 02

  Thank you, thank you. I mean, you know, big shoes to fill in that regard, so, yeah, it was pretty, that was, that was fun, fun times to be able to do that. It was kind of, it was freezing, but good.

• 44:22Josh Horowitz?

  So what is the plan going forward? I mean, I, I actually don't see anything coming, officially coming up for you.

• 44:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:29Josh Horowitz?

  I can't imagine you're not having some really exciting opportunities at your feet. Do you know kind of like the next six months, year of your professional career?

• 44:38Speaker 02

  I know, I know, maybe, I mean, one of the beauties of this industry is the fact that everything is kind of, you never take anything for granted or anything as a, as a guarantee, but I think I know the next few months of my, of my career, of my life.

• 44:58Josh Horowitz?

  Anything you can hint at in terms of TV, film, genre?

• 45:01Speaker 02

  I don't think it is. I don't think it is something that I could hint at, but I think it's, I think it, you know, I think it's exciting, I'm looking forward to doing it, you know, touch wood as long as it happens.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  And then, yeah, I mean, there's lots of things that are kind of bubbling. Again, I'm trying to be quite careful with the things that I do. Just to make sure that it feels right and again it's kind of in keeping with that direction that I'm trying to go in. But almost contrary to that, I think there's a, there is a feeling of just if it feels right, then it feels right.

• 45:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  So the direction is quite loose.

• 45:38Josh Horowitz?

  Are there filmmakers and actors right now that in your mind you're, that are doing it right? That are like, I like how they're approaching it. I'd love to be, I mean, you just knocked off like six of them, eight of them in warfare.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:49Josh Horowitz?

  But I imagine there are a lot more out there.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, there are so many. I'm, I'm, I'm a real fanboy in a lot of ways, you know, of this job because I respect, I mean, people like Robert Pattinson, I think is a career that I find fascinating.

• 46:06Josh Horowitz?

  Totally.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  And yeah, and kind of genius in a lot of ways because he just broke the mold completely and has been putting in amazing performances and working with really talented directors and doing, making big swings, which is always kind of, it's, it's harder than it kind of sounds. Everyone kind of goes, oh yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a couple of big swings and then when you get there, it's, it's tricky.

• 46:29Josh Horowitz?

  I, I will say because look, I've done a lot for MTV and I was in the middle of Twilight. Like I was in the middle of Twilight. And seeing Rob, and I saw it in real time, come off of that and do like the weirdest fucked up Cronenberg movies and, and, and just like going after the coolest, most interesting directors and, and much like you were saying, kind of like testing himself and kind of like, he knew he had something to learn.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:54Josh Horowitz?

  And he kind of like put, put in the years and the effort.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 46:57Josh Horowitz?

  And to see where he's at now, it's kind of amazing.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's one of those things where you have to kind of, you never really know. I, I think there's a, I can't remember who said it, I think it might have been Florence Pugh maybe, who's also, I mean, a great example of that. But she said something like, if, if I, if I know that I'm gonna be able to do a role, then it's probably not worth doing.

• 47:18Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 47:19Speaker 02

  Or something I'd probably completely misunderstood.

• 47:21Josh Horowitz?

  No, the principle is right, that's true.

• 47:23Speaker 02

  But someone said that, and I think it was Florence Pugh, but that is a kind of great way of thinking about it in the sense that if, if it feels like it's a, like a job done, I can do that, easy peasy. Then are you really gonna learn anything, you know, are you gonna? Also, chances are you probably won't be able to do it if you feel like that that confident.

• 47:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Um, but I I I it it's terrifying, it's a terrifying school of thought, because there's nothing scarier than going on to a film set and not knowing if you're gonna be able to do the job.

• 47:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Um, that is required of you, but there's also, you know, the the the rewards of that is is unbelievable. And I I think the jobs that I've done over the last year, for example, in warfare and and Romeo and Juliet, they've both been things that I haven't been sure if I could do them.

• 48:11Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  And I came out the other other end and and and feel like a much better actor as a result. So, yeah, that that's that's pretty exciting. Um, yeah, people like Rob, uh, Rob Pattinson, um.

• 48:24Josh Horowitz?

  Filmmakers, last thing you were, film you were you were obsessed with, series, anything?

• 48:30Speaker 02

  It's a good one. Uh, I mean, my friend Charles is making Beef Season Two, which I'm incredibly excited for, and I think that, yeah, that that Beef Season One was kind of ju- just genuinely fantastic and unlike anything I'd kind of seen.

• 48:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  Again, just pushing boundaries in all ways, and so I'm really looking forward to that. Um. Yeah, I mean, something like, even a film like Conclave, for example, um, I think there's something so unbelievably impressive about being able to take a this seemingly maybe mundane or seemingly kind of.

• 49:13Josh Horowitz?

  No, I always say that that basically was like Da Vinci Code just done like at the highest end possible. And not no no, this disrespect to Da Vinci Code, which is entertaining, but like the most elevated actors, writing, production design, music.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  Exactly. It's just like, i- i- it purely in terms of, if you were to ask someone like, what makes a good movie? Like, good writing, good directing, good acting, good cinematography, good, I mean, everything was just at its top.

• 49:38Josh Horowitz?

  Hundred percent.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  Um, and it made this this feel so alive and so, uh, so, um, tense and just, yeah. I think it it it's such a testament to what classic, like, just.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  Being strong at all of those kind of fundamental things can make such an amazing movie. So I think that that's like a great example of that as well.

• 50:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you want to be, bottom line is you want to surround yourself with the best.

• 50:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:05Josh Horowitz?

  And they'll make you look good.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  Of course, of course.

• 50:07Josh Horowitz?

  All right, we're gonna wrap up with the Happy Second Fuse profoundly random questions kit. Are you ready?

• 50:12Speaker 02

  I'm ready.

• 50:12Josh Horowitz?

  All right, dogs or cats?

• 50:14Speaker 02

  Dogs.

• 50:15Josh Horowitz?

  You are a dog guy, I appreciate this about you. Do you have one?

• 50:18Speaker 02

  Uh, my family, my parents have got two.

• 50:20Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  So they're kind of, you know, I see them as my dogs.

• 50:24Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, names?

• 50:25Speaker 02

  Basil and Sybil, after Forty Towers.

• 50:28Josh Horowitz?

  Very nice. Um, what do you collect, if anything?

• 50:32Speaker 02

  What do I collect? Good question. Um, I like collect, I collect jackets.

• 50:40Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  That's like the one bit of clothing that I really do, uh, and not expensive ones.

• 50:45Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Just like, yeah. Um, I remember I was watching The Brutalist and it's like the worst thing to be taking out of the brutalist. But I kept seeing these really amazing like work, work, workman's jackets. Yeah. Whoa, yeah, certainly wasn't the only thing I took out of that book, but yeah.

• 51:05Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, do you have a favorite video game of all time?

• 51:08Speaker 02

  Assassin's Creed.

• 51:09Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, okay.

• 51:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was never a huge gamer, but my, uh, my brother used to play it. I used to sit by him and watch him play it and then I played it myself.

• 51:17Josh Horowitz?

  Nice.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:18Josh Horowitz?

  This is the Dakota Johnson memorial question, I apologize. Uh, she asked me this once, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 51:26Speaker 02

  One bee in my butt, yeah.

• 51:28Josh Horowitz?

  That's, that's the prevailing wisdom on that.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 51:30Josh Horowitz?

  Right, just get it over with, you can handle it, just, yeah.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  I think, yeah.

• 51:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 51:37Speaker 02

  Oh, it's a picture of Michael Gandolfini.

• 51:41Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, let's see.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  It's really crazy. Uh, I just think it's really funny. And it kind of wakes me up every time I see it.

• 51:50Josh Horowitz?

  That always brings a smile, I would imagine.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  No, he'll love that.

• 51:54Josh Horowitz?

  Any context to that, any?

• 51:56Speaker 02

  We did like a kind of a little getaway while we were shooting Warfare, all of us together. Um, and, um, yeah, in, in the English countryside on our last weekend before our final week of shooting.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, just.

• 52:11Josh Horowitz?

  Good times.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:13Josh Horowitz?

  Last actor you were mistaken for?

• 52:15Speaker 02

  Robert Pattinson.

• 52:16Josh Horowitz?

  Is that right?

• 52:16Speaker 02

  At the, which I never get mistaken for actors.

• 52:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  But I was, uh, going through security at the airport and some guy goes, "Hey, uh, you're that, you look like that actor." And I was thinking, you know, "Yeah, that's me." And then, and then he goes, "From Twilight." And I was like, "Oh, oh, okay."

• 52:37Josh Horowitz?

  I was 10 when those were made.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I was like, "Even so, appreciate that, you know, thank you."

• 52:43Josh Horowitz?

  And, yeah. Uh, what's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 52:48Speaker 02

  Worst note a director's ever given me, um,

• 52:54Speaker 02

  I've had some pretty good people generally, but I'd say that probably the worst note,

• 53:03Speaker 02

  the worst note i- is probably no note because I've, I've had a, I've done, uh, done a job where we would just go take after take after take after take. Um, and I think it was an intentional thing to kind of instill, to have a certain desired effect.

• 53:20Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  But it was maddening.

• 53:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:23Speaker 02

  Cause you just think, "What am I?"

• 53:24Josh Horowitz?

  You're in your own head, you're like, "What am I?" Yeah.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  Um, but again, I mean, it, it worked, I guess.

• 53:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  They, um, that director got, got their, their intended response, but it was like, "Whoa."

• 53:37Josh Horowitz?

  Just guessing.

• 53:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:38Josh Horowitz?

  No, I got it. And finally, in the spirit of Happy, Sad, Confused, an actor who always makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're immediately happier.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  Ooh, uh, Willem Dafoe.

• 53:50Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, nice. Okay, yeah. Movie that makes you sad?

• 53:58Speaker 02

  About Time.

• 54:00Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, that's a good one.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  Does make me sad.

• 54:01Josh Horowitz?

  Don't believe it, amazing. Yeah, that's a good one. And finally, a food that makes you confused, you don't get it.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Avocados. I feel like that's a basic answer because a lot of people say that.

• 54:12Josh Horowitz?

  It's a cilantro kind of thing, it's one of those.

• 54:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it doesn't, to me, it doesn't taste of anything.

• 54:17Josh Horowitz?

  Interesting.

• 54:17Speaker 02

  I like a guacamole.

• 54:19Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, well, that's a fascinating aspect of it.

• 54:20Speaker 02

  But then you've got all of this kind of other stuff going on in there and it's maybe a different, and you would rarely just have guacamole on its own.

• 54:28Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  But avocados for me, yeah, it's a, it's a, I can eat it, but it's a, it's a struggle.

• 54:34Josh Horowitz?

  It's a no-go.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a, it's a sort of, "Whoa, this is cold and..."

• 54:38Josh Horowitz?

  Sort of flavourless and fresh, but yeah, not that refreshing. Yeah. Okay. I won't hold it against you. Everything else about you is delightful. Good, thank you.

• 54:49Josh Horowitz?

  That's what Will Poulter has ahead of me. Exactly. I knew there was a reason I love that man. He loves avocado. Yeah. No, man, this has been a long time coming. We've been talking about doing this for a while. So I appreciate taking the time after a long press tour. My pleasure. You're killing it. You're just getting started and already so many great things are happening. Congratulations on Warfare. Everybody should check it out and I'll see you, I'm sure, on the next one. Absolutely. Can't wait. Thanks.

• 55:14Speaker 03

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 55:34Speaker 06

  You've got your favourite blanket, a freshly poured drink and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime, you're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favourite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbour wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week we break down the twists, red herrings and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

• 56:18Speaker 06

  It's high drama, cozy vibes and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts and let's solve this thing together.