Chef Andy Baraghani

Ina talks to James Beard Award-winning cook and author Andy Baraghani over a glass of wine at her kitchen table in New York City. They talk about his new restaurant, Ditto, how it got its name from a scene in “Ghost”; and the day he walked into Chez Panisse, résumé in hand, determined to get into the kitchen (he was a teen). They also talk about what it was like becoming the internet’s crush, why you should season at the beginning, middle, their favorite salts, and their most frequented restaurants in Paris. Beloved hostess Ina Garten welcomes listeners into her New York City apartment for Happy Hour with Ina Garten. Every Wednesday, she sits down with people she’d like to meet from the worlds of culture, food, art, sports, and entertainment for the kinds of conversations you would love to overhear at a great dinner party. Warm, funny, personal, and often unexpected, Happy Hour mixes in-depth conversation with stories, recipes, and, of course, cocktails. Pull up a chair, pour yourself a drink, and join the conversation. SUBSCRIBE ► Subscribe to Happy Hour with Ina Garten for new episodes every Wednesday: https://www.youtube.com/@HappyHourwithIna?sub_confirmation=1 FOLLOW THE SHOW ► Happy Hour on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HappyHourwithIna?sub_confirmation=1 ► Happy Hour on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/happyhourwithina ► Happy Hour on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@happyhourwithina ► Happy Hour on Substack: https://happyhourwithinagarten.substack.com/welcome ► Happy Hour on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61589319634655 Host: Ina Garten Executive Producers: Jenna Weiss-Berman, Suzie Lechtenberg, Ali Jaffe Ramis, and Deborah Davis Contributing Producer: Kate Tyler Senior Producer: Justine Daum Producer: Jules Natt Video Editor: Tim Fernandez Associate Producer: Mica Pollan Bahn Sound Recording: Joe Plourde Camera Operators: Joe Valenzuela and Zoe Gregoric Music by Pink Martini Special Thanks to Cinematographer Dion Beebe Happy Hour with Ina is made by Good Wait Productions. This is a Vox Media podcast. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Ina Garten?

  I'm Ina Garten, and this is Happy Hour. Today, I'm sitting down with Andy Baragani. Andy is a James Beard Award-winning and New York Times bestselling cookbook writer. Can I start with the first thing that I love about your cookbook?

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 0:16Ina Garten?

  When you open it, it lies flat.

• 0:19Speaker 01

  I know. I think about this constantly.

• 0:22Ina Garten?

  He has also worked in some of the greatest restaurants in the country, including Chez Panisse in Berkeley and Estella in New York. You just walked in with your resume and said, "Hi, I'm Andy."

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Well, the resume was really not more of like a sticky note more than anything. There wasn't much of a resume.

• 0:50Ina Garten?

  Support for the show comes from Whole Foods Market. I love cooking in the autumn. The markets are full of gorgeous produce. There's a snap in the air, which makes me want to turn on the stove and cook with simple ingredients that makes everything so much easier and more satisfying. Crisp apples, sweet squash, fresh sage, toasted nuts, and rich cheeses. Have a way of making your favorite fall dishes taste even better than you remember. For fresh seasonal ingredients, for everyday meals, and for intimate parties, shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online.

• 1:34Ina Garten?

  Andy Baragani?

• 1:35Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:36Ina Garten?

  Welcome to Happy Hour. So glad you're here.

• 1:38Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:39Ina Garten?

  So it's a chilled red saussette. I thought it'd be good with the chipotle and rosemary roasted nuts.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  This is delicious.

• 1:45Ina Garten?

  It's good, isn't it?

• 1:48Ina Garten?

  So you've worked in great restaurants, developed recipes for Bon Appetit.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:53Ina Garten?

  Been the heartthrob of YouTube videos.

• 1:57Ina Garten?

  Written a James Beard Award-winning cookbook, which I adore.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:01Ina Garten?

  And now you're about to open a restaurant. Is there anything you haven't done?

• 2:06Speaker 01

  Well, I don't think I'll ever be able to do as many cookbooks as you, but I will.

• 2:11Ina Garten?

  You have a couple of years to go.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  But, no, I'm very grateful.

• 2:14Ina Garten?

  Did the YouTube videos catapult your career into the stratosphere?

• 2:17Speaker 01

  It did, and it was never, you know, I went into this industry because I love food and I love cooking and grew up in a family that loved to eat. But I didn't plan to ever be on camera, and then it just accidentally happened.

• 2:30Ina Garten?

  Tell me about it.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  But I kept going, yeah. It's a great way to communicate.

• 2:35Ina Garten?

  How did it happen? Did somebody come and say, "You'd be great on film"?

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Pretty much. It was like when I was working in food media and developing recipes, writing stories, and then someone at Bon Appetit was just like, "We're putting you on camera." And it wasn't really a question. It was more like, "You're gonna do a cookbook."

• 2:53Ina Garten?

  This is your job.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  And I tried it, and I just saw how it really connected people to the food. And people engaged with the dish and my food in a way that I never experienced before.

• 3:06Ina Garten?

  It's true. People asked me for, I mean, Food Network asked me for like two years to do film. And I was like, "Who would want to watch me cook on film?" Just couldn't even imagine. But it's because you're in their homes and you're on their computer, and they feel like they know you.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 3:21Ina Garten?

  And it's just, why do I think you got comments about the food, but also like marriage proposals and?

• 3:25Speaker 01

  It was more than a few, beyond food questions. It was like, but it was exciting. It was such a different time. And then I was so open to it. But now I think everybody knows that I'm very happily married.

• 3:39Ina Garten?

  What were some of the really funny comments that you got? I love reading the comments because I remember being in Paris for New Year's Eve. Jeffrey and I were there, and I, you know, I usually write, you know, "I'm doing this and I'm doing that, and this is what I'm making for New Year's Eve, and here's the recipe, you can make it too." And somebody commented, "Now, why would I give a rat's ass what you're doing for New Year's Eve?" And I was like, "You were on my Instagram, right?"

• 4:02Speaker 01

  You were putting the effort, actually.

• 4:03Ina Garten?

  But then for the rest of the trip, Jeffrey and I, he would say, "I'm gonna go get some milk," and I would go, "Now, why would I give a rat's ass where you're going?" I always wanted to tell this guy how much pleasure he gave us.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  People would comment on my outfits, which I never really, I just dressed the way I did. But I guess a few of my shirts had some tiny, maybe medium-sized rips. And so it was like, "Can he afford a wardrobe? Can he afford even, how could he come to an office like that?" But then, that was, you know, a handful. And then there was a good handful that were like very into the kind of somewhat revealing t-shirts.

• 4:38Ina Garten?

  What I actually love, too, is when somebody makes a negative comment and all your supporters just pile on. They pile on, "Go somewhere else, leave him alone. He's fabulous."

• 4:47Speaker 01

  And that's amazing, because for a while I did not look at the comments. And then my colleagues would just say like, "Oh, you have to, the comments, you have to." And then I was like, "All right, this feels a little indulgent, but I will."

• 4:58Ina Garten?

  So in 2022, I think you said, "I'll never open a restaurant." I've worked in restaurants.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  I did say that.

• 5:06Ina Garten?

  What changed?

• 5:08Speaker 01

  I think what changed was I felt like, I've been in New York for 18 years, and I felt like this concept, this restaurant that I'm opening, we don't really have in New York. But I thought of places in Europe that I love, in California where I grew up. And I wanted a place that was really a highly dependable place where people can get a great food, that's easy. Something I hear a lot from friends of mine who are in food, out of food, it's like how hard it is to get into restaurants right now, how expensive it is. And I thought, "Okay, I want to be able to create a restaurant where it's mostly affordable and people can have it be an anchor of sorts, where they can come and get breakfast, lunch, and early dinner." I thought of a restaurant, City Bakery, back in the day.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  And I loved it. And I loved it because, you know, the food was good enough. It was this kind of industrial fun space, but you had this range of characters. You had construction workers, you had students, professors, people in marketing. You had all these characters come together for a meal. And I loved that. So I thought, you know, I wanted to open a restaurant. It's called Ditto, and...

• 6:14Ina Garten?

  And what's Ditto about?

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Oh my God. Ditto was, it's this word that people kept on saying to me, texting me, emailing me. And I just was more open to it. And then one night, my husband and I, we were watching, I can't believe I'm saying this, we were watching the movie Ghost. And there's that scene with Whoopi Goldberg and Patrick Swayze. And Patrick Swayze says, "Tell her, Demi Moore, that I love her." And Whoopi tells Demi, and he says, "I love you." And she's like, "He would never say that." And then he says, "Tell her I say ditto." And then Whoopi says to Demi, like, he says ditto.

• 6:49Ina Garten?

  So it means, "I love you."

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it feels like...

• 6:51Ina Garten?

  What a great title.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  It feels so sweet, it feels, you know, on repeat. And I wanted to be a part of people's life, you know, every day.

• 6:59Ina Garten?

  So what kind of food is it? What's the feeling of it?

• 7:01Speaker 01

  I think lots of herbs, lots of acid. We're gonna be doing rotisserie programs, sandwiches, soups, salads.

• 7:11Ina Garten?

  And so it really is accessible.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:13Ina Garten?

  That's great.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  I thought, what are the very kind of best versions of sinful things? That's how I feel.

• 7:19Ina Garten?

  Love that. And I actually love restaurants that are about home food.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:23Ina Garten?

  Home cooking. And actually, in a funny way, right where you're opening is in the Village. And it's, or I guess it's kind of Lower Fifth Avenue, right?

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:32Ina Garten?

  I think that was the secret of Union Square Cafe at the time. It was roast chicken, it was just ice cream sundae in, you know, in a sort of a little fancy form, but still, it was home cooking. So you travel for inspiration?

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 7:47Ina Garten?

  What's your favorite place to travel?

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Well, I think we both love Paris. I mean, it's truly, I hope to have a little tiny little place there eventually, one day, because it is always a form of inspiration.

• 7:59Ina Garten?

  It will change your life. I never want to go anywhere else.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  I believe that I will have this kind of sense of sigh of relief when that day comes. And I tell my husband, not every few weeks, but every month, I just kind of gently, I'm like, "We will eventually have a place in Paris that manifests."

• 8:14Ina Garten?

  It is worth the dream. It is so worth the dream. It's just, just shopping there?

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely.

• 8:19Ina Garten?

  Like, where do you have to go when you shop in Paris?

• 8:21Speaker 01

  You know, the thing that I need to do more is cook in Paris.

• 8:24Ina Garten?

  Yeah, well, if you don't have a kitchen, you can't.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  I eat out a lot, but I think Paris is a huge form of inspiration. I love Vietnam. I loved going to Vietnam. I loved Malaysia. I loved, I just came back from London, and I hadn't been to London in, I can't believe, over 10 years. And it was very inspiring. All the bakeries, incredible Italian food, all the pubs. I think, I grew up in a very specific place, Berkeley, California, which loves food. And I grew up in a first-generation Persian household, also great food. But to be able to travel has just completely shaped the way I cook. And so I kind of am able to be inspired and pick and choose what feels right.

• 9:09Ina Garten?

  I think there was a moment when I had, Jeffrey and I went on a camping trip in France when we were first married, so I must have been 22. And we pulled into Mont Saint Michel to the campsite. And the woman who owned the campsite said, "I just made cacao bun for my husband. Would you like some?" And I don't even know if I knew what it was. I said, "Sure." And I took it back to the tent and heated it up. And I just remember that being the moment where I just thought, "I need to know how to make this." It was like Julia Child's soul manier. I mean, I just need to know how to do it. And that was the beginning of sort of the pivot towards learning how to cook.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  It's so funny how it just, if you love food and cooking, it just grabs you. And I have photos, my family does with me, with the Fisher Price Kitchen when I was five years old.

• 10:02Ina Garten?

  I want to hear about that, because I had a pink tea set kit. I thought it was enormous. It was probably 12 pieces or something. But I played with it endlessly. It was literally the only toy I had. And I just played with it endlessly. And so you had a Fisher Price Kitchen. Did you ask for it, or did they give it to you?

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no, no. I was very, I'm like, "I want my own kitchen." Yes, yes. I was like, "I don't have a lot of toys, but I spend all my time with holding my blanket." And then the kitchen would have caught on fire in the kitchen.

• 10:30Ina Garten?

  So what, I mean, I know the name, Fisher Price Kitchen. How big is it?

• 10:34Speaker 01

  Oh, it was probably no bigger than this table.

• 10:36Ina Garten?

  Oh, but it was the size of the table?

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:38Ina Garten?

  Oh, wow. And did it have like elements that you could heat something up?

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Yes, there was a proper, there was a little arrangement. It was, I don't think it lit up, but it was like pots and pans, all plastic, obviously. But it was just, it brought me so much joy. And now I have a seven-year-old nephew. He's kind of graduated where he's not playing with his kitchen, but for a good two, three years, he was playing with his kitchen.

• 10:58Ina Garten?

  And you know what, as a friend of mine said, "What goes in early goes in deep." And so that experience and that connection to the Fisher Price Kitchen changed your life.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:10Ina Garten?

  And it will your nephew.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  We're a sponge when we're that young. And we're just kind of seeing and observing and taking a hold on to everything we see.

• 11:17Ina Garten?

  And were your parents thrilled or curious about it?

• 11:22Speaker 01

  My parents are...

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Absolutely supportive in a way that I

• 11:28Ina Garten?

  So jealous.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  And in a way that the older I get, especially when I became an adult, became aware of just how rare that was, my upbringing. And they were, gave me all this freedom to really just discover who I am, who I want to be, and what I love, and just, and gently pushed me in that direction. They never forced, and as soon as they saw that I had a passion, they just let me go with it. And if anything, they were kind of like, you know, you're so lucky to have a passion, because not a lot of people have that. And then gently reminded me like, you're so lucky that you turned your passion into your career. And so, you know, that's why I don't take anything for granted.

• 12:11Ina Garten?

  Yeah, that's fabulous. And you're right, it's so rare. Because parents always feel like they should guide you where they think you should go, rather than looking at you and saying, so what are you gonna do? I mean, Jeffrey said to me, when we first got married, you need to figure out what you're gonna do with your life, otherwise you won't be happy. And then nobody had ever said that to me. And it's just wonderful to have somebody support you and believe in that. It's incredible. You actually said you found yourself when you found food.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  Well, I think I found food at a very young age, and I started in kitchens when I was 16. But I would say, once I realized like, this can be truly not just part of my daily life, cooking for myself, but be a part of my career, it made me have a deeper acceptance of who I am, of just being Iranian, coming to New York. I've learned so many lessons being in the kitchen. And being able to meet so many incredible people, it's, it's been a gift.

• 13:09Ina Garten?

  Okay, I think we need a little more wine for this.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 13:11Ina Garten?

  What do you think?

• 13:12Speaker 01

  I would love another splash. Thank you.

• 13:14Ina Garten?

  So, I love people that just swing for the fences. And you were 16 years old.

• 13:22Ina Garten?

  And tell me what happened. You just, you didn't decide you wanted to have a job in a restaurant. You wanted to have a job in the top restaurant in the country.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Well, it was right there in kind of my backyard of sorts. And my uncle told me like, you know, one of the best restaurants in the country is, is right here. It's called Chez Beniz, and he told me about it. And the woman behind it, Alice Waters. And I thought, oh, I, I have to be there. I have to be there. And I went there, and I remembered meeting Beth Weld, who was a co-chef of the cafe upstairs. And I just remember saying like, I'm in high school, I can come Fridays after school, and Saturdays, the restaurant was closed.

• 14:04Ina Garten?

  You just walked in with your resume and said, hi, I'm Mandy?

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Well, the resume was really not more of like a sticky note more than anything. There wasn't much of a resume. But I think, I don't know what she said. She just knew that I was eager, and I just was, had this desire to learn. I like to think that I still actually have that, too. It's still like, I think anybody who's a creative, it's like, you want to keep evolving and get better and better. But then it just felt like I have to be in the kitchen, and not just cook.

• 14:32Ina Garten?

  And so what did you learn at Chez Beniz when you were 16? I think it's actually, when, when you're starting out, if you're really aware, you learn culinary things, but you also learn how to run a kitchen.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 14:43Ina Garten?

  Right? So what'd you learn?

• 14:44Speaker 01

  So I always say like, my family instilled the love for, for food and cooking. Chez Beniz provided this kind of foundation when it came to it. And so, it started when it came to just like, this is how you prep onions, two buckets worth, and how to break down a chicken, and how to filet fish.

• 14:59Ina Garten?

  Oh, so it was really like school.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was like school, really foundational.

• 15:03Ina Garten?

  I could use that.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  You know, it was incredible how to kind of toast spices and grind them, and how to make a mirepoix, not to get too much color, how to make a sauce for a braise, how to chop herbs, pick herbs, and how to bring them back to life. Tasting things and adjusting.

• 15:23Ina Garten?

  I think that's, I remember Alice Waters saying once, she's not a great cook, she's a great taster.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:28Ina Garten?

  Does that, does that sound authentic to Alice Waters?

• 15:31Speaker 01

  Very much so, because I think you are tasting constantly. You are tasting an herb at its raw form. When it's cooked, when it's pounded, you're just at different stages and adjusting for a little bit of acid, a little bit of, you know, salt.

• 15:46Ina Garten?

  Because whatever it is, last week was different from this week. And I think people forget, Alice Waters was really the first one who did what we now consider farm-to-table. It's like, the local farms were bringing things to her. And every week, every day, probably, right?

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Every day.

• 16:02Ina Garten?

  Whatever you needed, she would bring those things to you. So the chicken was different one day from the next.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:07Ina Garten?

  So if you taste it as you're going along.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  Really kind of using your senses also. I think in every way. And so, it definitely made me a better cook. And it only confirmed that I want to continue cooking. And one of my, I guess, I guess it wasn't my last day, or this was a year after getting ready to go to college, and I turned to my boss, and I said, maybe I should go to culinary school. And I remember him saying, no need to go to culinary school, just continue working at restaurants. And there's nothing wrong with culinary school, I should say. But it was just more that, continue practicing and working. So funny, I ran into my old boss today, this morning.

• 16:48Ina Garten?

  Today?

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:49Ina Garten?

  Did you remind him that he said that to you?

• 16:51Speaker 01

  We're still very much in touch. Alice Cal, this one was David Tannis, who's an incredible, love David, adore him. He is very much my friend and mentor. And I saw him on the street, and I just gave him a big hug. He's here for the month, so.

• 17:04Ina Garten?

  Isn't that great?

• 17:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Very New York.

• 17:06Ina Garten?

  Those skill, it's a very New York. Those skills are with you forever. Once you learn it, the right way to do it, you're good to go forever.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  I still make certain things, the Chez way. I roast beets exactly the way I learned there. I

• 17:19Ina Garten?

  I like the Chez way.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  The Chez way. I, I make corn soup exactly the way I learned it there.

• 17:24Ina Garten?

  So what, what was it?

• 17:26Speaker 01

  The corn soup, so the way is that you sweat a lot of onions, but no color, very, very soft, juicy, sweet. And then you add the corn, or excuse me, you add the corn cobs, water. Generally, never even stock. It just adds for more pure flavor. And then you make this wonderful kind of corn stock, maybe some shirvul or leeks are going in there to kind of amplify it. And then remove the cobs, add corn kernels, and then blend it until it's very like satin smooth, and then strain it. And then you would top it with either corn butter or like a sizzle chili butter. But it's just this pure essence of corn. It's incredible.

• 18:05Ina Garten?

  That's, to me, that's the best cooking, where you're taking the thing, whatever it is, corn, and making it taste more like itself than, than it did when it walked in the door.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  Just doing a little bit.

• 18:14Ina Garten?

  Just doing a little bit to make it just taste luxurious and velvety, and flavorful, and layered. And you just kind of know that there's shirvul in there, but you don't quite know what it is, but it just makes the corn taste better.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 18:27Ina Garten?

  I think, to me, that's all cooking for me.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  And it's, it's, it's very hard to really develop that skill to like, where it's like, less is more, and just kind of, that kind of refined home cooking. And that's really what I think of when I think of Chez Beniz.

• 18:41Ina Garten?

  That's great. You know, I was thinking about walking in with your resume. My husband Jeffrey was in, in graduate school in Washington, and he decided he needed a job. And so he, as you did going to Chez Beniz, he decided he was gonna walk down to the White House. I mean, like, who does that? And he walked in the side door of the executive office building, right next to the White House, and he saw the guard there, and he said, I've got my resume, I'd like to bring it to Jonathan Rose. And the guard said, well, I'll take it to him. He goes, no, no, no, I'd really like to give it to him myself. And he said, oh yeah, go ahead. I mean, this was the 70s, so you could do that. And he walks up to the third floor where his office is, and he walks in, and his then secretary, now assistant, was sitting there. He said, can I give my resume to Jonathan Rose? And she said, I'll, I'll give it to him.

• 19:26Ina Garten?

  He goes, I'd really like to give it to him myself. I mean, he was, you know, you were 16, at least he was like 22.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  I think you can get away with when you're younger, though.

• 19:35Ina Garten?

  Maybe, maybe. And so, she said, oh yeah, Jonathan's having his lunch, you can just go in. So he walks in with his resume, and Jonathan reads it, and he sees Jeffrey had been a Green Beret, and he'd been a paratrooper, and, and they start talking. And by the end of the conversation, he said, you know, somebody quit yesterday, can you start tomorrow? And you just never know until you just walk in with your resume and say, I really want to be here.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  The worst thing that can happen is, they say no.

• 19:59Ina Garten?

  They say no, yeah, exactly. You know, one of the things that I've always been aware of as a woman, I, I left the government because I didn't want to wait for a man to promote me. And I knew I had to find another track, where it wasn't gonna be, it was just my skills that were gonna be the determination of my success. And I think that's the way you feel about working online in a kitchen.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 20:23Ina Garten?

  That it's not about who you are, it's not about what your background is, and it's not about how people see you at all. It's just pure skill.

• 20:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:30Ina Garten?

  And, and that feels good when, when you have the skills.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  I do, I do say it's like, you can fool a lot of people. It's pretty hard to fool people in the kitchen.

• 20:38Ina Garten?

  Oh, that's so great. Not a great idea, that's absolutely true.

• 20:58Ina Garten?

  Support for the show comes from Whole Foods Market. One of my favorite things about cooking in the fall is that fresh seasonal ingredients give my dishes so much flavor. Pears, persimmons, fresh herbs, maple syrup, and sharp cheddar are so good together. And when you start with high-quality ingredients, you don't have to do much to make a simple dish extraordinary. Whole Foods Market has an incredible selection of seasonal ingredients for every fall dish. They prioritize organic, sustainable, and premium grocery items. And they ban over 575 ingredients from the food they sell, including hydrogenated fats and high-fructose corn syrup. So you can feel confident about what goes into your cart and onto your plate.

• 21:43Ina Garten?

  I'm a firm believer that the best meals start with the best ingredients. If the ingredients are wonderful, your cooking can be simple and delicious. For your next party, shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online.

• 22:03Ina Garten?

  I love that curiosity fuels you. And can I say just, I love your cookbook?

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 22:08Ina Garten?

  I just think it's extraordinary. Can I start with the first thing that I love about your cookbook? When you open it, it lies flat.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  I know. I think about this constantly. And I tell every young author or first-time author, I'm like, you have to have...

• 22:23Ina Garten?

  It has to stay open.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  A cookbook is a guide. It's a manual. So it should lay flat. It's very important to me.

• 22:29Ina Garten?

  I think you and I are the only two people who really thought it's critical. Otherwise, you end up taking the salt and putting it on one side. You put the pepper on the other side. And then you have to turn the page, and it's a mess.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  No, no, no. I say that over and over.

• 22:40Ina Garten?

  I love that it's so true to you. And that's really hard to do. I think people think that, oh, you know, I know who I am, and I can just write a cookbook. But you have to work really hard, and you have to try a lot of different things before you know who you are.

• 22:53Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 22:53Ina Garten?

  And then you can be free. And I just, I love the titles tell you exactly what it is, but they're fun.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:00Ina Garten?

  You can really have fun. I mean, "Fall Apart Caramelized Cabbage Smothered with Anchovies and Dill." I mean, it's just, it's fun. It's not like I'm serious. What? You know exactly what it's gonna taste like. Exactly. And it's gorgeous, and I want to make everything in... Look how beautiful this is. "Fat Pieces of Citrus With Avocado and Caramelized Dates." I mean, it's just layers and layers of flavor and just so simple and so gorgeous.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  I'm not interested in... And I'm sure I feel, you would feel the same way. I'm not interested in fooling people. I want people to look at the photo, look at the recipe, look at the recipe name, and really know what... And hopefully be even more surprised and delighted after they make it.

• 23:38Ina Garten?

  Yeah. And I love that you called it "The Cook You Want to Be." Because that's what we all want to be cooks.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  It was very important. I'd say halfway writing the manuscript, originally it was called "The Cook I Want to Be." Because it was so personal. And then, you know, I was speaking to my editor, and we were going back and forth about the title. And I thought, you know, this book is just about, just as much about me as it is about the reader. And so I changed the "I" to "you." And I think it made a big difference.

• 24:04Ina Garten?

  I think it made total sense because then you're saying to the reader, this is the cook that you want to be.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:09Ina Garten?

  And I'm gonna help you do that.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 24:11Ina Garten?

  Which is fantastic. That's really, that's wonderful.

• 24:16Ina Garten?

  Are there New York City restaurants that inspire what you love to do?

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I think we're in a very interesting time with food. A great time in food, actually. I would say, you know, post-pandemic, so many restaurants closed, unfortunately, in the city. But it brought a whole new wave of talent in the city that I felt like I wasn't 100% seen before. And not that there was a lot of talent, but it was just, this right now, there's so many restaurants I want to go to.

• 24:47Ina Garten?

  Oh, isn't that interesting? And are they kind of niche ethnic restaurants? Or are they just, like, steak and hamburger restaurants?

• 24:55Speaker 01

  I think what's happening now is that things are getting a little more weird. And...

• 25:01Ina Garten?

  In a good way or a bad way?

• 25:02Speaker 01

  In a good way. Weird in a, like, people are experimenting in a way that it's like a lot more pop-ups. I love how there's just... Things are getting highly regional and specific. I love that we're having just a range of cuisines now, I think. When I first moved here, you never saw Persian food. Or it was very rare. And now there's a good handful of Persian restaurants.

• 25:26Ina Garten?

  So how would you describe Persian food? Is it, what are the, I mean, we all know things like pomegranate. What are the kind of trademarks of Persian?

• 25:36Speaker 01

  In terms of the flavor, I would say it's mildly spiced. It's not as spicy as one would think. They have a deep love for sour flavors. Pomegranate, dried limes, sumac, pomegranate molasses. But then, they also love herbs. A tremendous amount of fresh herbs.

• 25:59Ina Garten?

  Interesting juxtaposition, because one is fermented in a kind of way, and the other one is fresh.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  Fresh.

• 26:04Ina Garten?

  And the two of them together. That's interesting.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  Spice-wise, lots of saffron, obviously, turmeric. And then certain warm spices, like cardamom and cinnamon, and rice. So much rice.

• 26:16Ina Garten?

  I loved the video of you making the saffron rice cake. Will you describe that? That looked so freaking good.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  I would say it's a saffron rice cake. It is, has this incredible crisp exterior called the tadik. And then this beautiful fluffy basmati rice where you can make out each grain. And it's buttered and scented and well-seasoned. And I'd say rice and stews are the backbone of Persian cuisine. It's incredible. I never wanted to cook that food, actually, growing up. I was always more interested in French, Italian, Spanish, different parts of the world, or Chinese, or Japanese. And then, when I got older, I kind of ended up realizing just how incredible this food is. And I was working for Sever Magazine,

• 27:07Speaker 01

  and they did a story on Iran. This was many years ago, 2010. And they asked me to develop some Persian recipes. I'm like, well, I don't, I eat this food. I know this food, but I don't cook this food. And then I ended up working with my mother to develop like 10 recipes. And it was such a great way for us to bond, for me to really study how she cooks. And then it made me realize, oh, no, this food is incredible.

• 27:32Ina Garten?

  It's one of the oldest cuisines in the world, right? It must be.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  No, it is, it's very special. And very different from my... Once you try it, you'll know that it's...

• 27:41Ina Garten?

  And was it fun working with your mother?

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Highly opinionated. This is the way to do it. This is not the way to do it. But now she takes tips from me, so it's like that.

• 27:52Ina Garten?

  Isn't that nice that that shifted? That's wonderful.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  I'm curious what are your picks in Paris? Because I'm going down my Rolodex. I'm like, I wonder if it's La Me Louie, if it's like which...

• 28:02Ina Garten?

  Oh, my favorite place? You know, it's on, it's in the 6th? Maybe in the 7th? It's on the border of the 6th and 7th. And it's Le Voltaire.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  I love Le Voltaire.

• 28:15Ina Garten?

  It's been going forever. And it's just classic French restaurant. Exquisite food, not fancy. I mean, it's warm and inviting.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  That little room is amazing.

• 28:26Ina Garten?

  And the food comes, they're, you know, they're shared dishes of vegetables. I mean, I think it's like 12 different kinds of potatoes.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  No, it's true.

• 28:35Ina Garten?

  And it's so gorgeous. And it's chocolate mousse for dessert. But it's exquisite. It's just exquisite.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  I was, last time I was in Paris, I went there. And I'm like, oh, this is...

• 28:44Ina Garten?

  And don't tell anybody, because we'll never be able to get in again.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  No, I know, I know. It is, and it's not a fancy, but it is a beautiful room. I love that.

• 28:53Ina Garten?

  It's very elegant. Last time I was there, Voltaire was the center after the war, or during the war, for the résistants. Do you know this story?

• 29:03Speaker 01

  No, I don't know.

• 29:04Ina Garten?

  And they have booths in the back, where if you lift up the booth, they would hide people where the booth was. So after the war was over, when everybody said that they were part of the résistants, whether they were or not, Voltaire became very, very popular.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 29:21Ina Garten?

  And it's stayed popular ever since.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  I remember, I have an uncle just outside of Paris. And I remember he took me to a restaurant called Chartier. And it's like old mailroom of sorts, I think. I haven't been in it in many years.

• 29:36Ina Garten?

  It's called Chartier?

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Chartier, yeah. And, you know, it's like cold chicken with mustard. It's like just, or oeuf mayonnaise. But it's like, I think about this meal all the time. Like, even though I haven't been in a long time. But it just was just so... I remember, also, I remember is because I had to get some change to go to the bathroom.

• 29:57Ina Garten?

  Yeah. So old-fashioned. Actually, because Voltaire has something on the appetizer menu, which is oeuf mayonnaise. It's eggs with mayonnaise. And it's, I think it's a euro. It's very inexpensive. And they've never changed the price from when one restaurant opened. It was in honor of somebody, and I'm not sure who. But I just think it's such a charming tradition. Oeuf mayonnaise. And it's so good.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  It's so good.

• 30:23Ina Garten?

  It's just crazy good. So can we talk about food?

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 30:27Ina Garten?

  I loved your rant about salt. It's the thing that everybody has in their kitchen, and nobody knows how to use. So what, how many salts do you have?

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Right now, I probably have... At least seven or eight, but I probably use two the most, which is a

• 30:44Ina Garten?

  Kosher?

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Kosher, diamond crystal kosher, and I use a flaky salt.

• 30:48Ina Garten?

  That's exactly what I use.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  You know, I have some other kind of

• 30:51Ina Garten?

  I have some fleur de sel as well. Yeah, those are the three I use all the time.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  I love it, and I think once you really know how to use it, and it just, it makes ingredients taste like the best version of themselves. And so I think people are afraid of salt, and I don't think they should be as much. They should just kind of, you know, adjust, and salt's in the beginning, middle, and they should.

• 31:15Ina Garten?

  And actually, I think you use less salt if you salt along the way than if you dump it on the outside. I'll tell you, you'll know this restaurant is Judy Rogers from Zuni Cafe. And I went there, and I was staying in a hotel. I got in a taxi, went to Zuni, told them to take us to Zuni Cafe. And the taxi driver said, "You're gonna order the chicken, right?"

• 31:39Speaker 01

  Famous chicken.

• 31:40Ina Garten?

  I was like, even the taxi driver knows what to order. So we sat down, we ordered the chicken, and there's a salad that

• 31:45Speaker 01

  Yes, it's a bread salad.

• 31:47Ina Garten?

  Yeah, the bread salad, that's right. And it was so good, I couldn't believe it. And this was probably 15 years ago. It was so good. And I just said to my friend who I was with, "I don't know how she makes a chicken this good, unless maybe if she salts it in advance and it gets into the middle." Because it wasn't the outside wasn't flavorful, the whole chicken was flavorful. And Judy was there. And she came over and sat down. And I said to her, "Judy, you have to tell me how you made this chicken so good." And she said, "When the chicken comes from the purveyor, we salt it and put it in the refrigerator for a day or two." So it was exactly, made all the difference in the world.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  She is definitely one of the people where I'm like, "I wish, I wish I could have worked for her. I wish I could have..."

• 32:28Ina Garten?

  And she came from the same place, Chape Nise, right?

• 32:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that is a big thing. I think seasoning a chicken, or any kind of meat especially, protein, early on, and leaving it in the fridge uncovered, it kind of allows the skin to kind of dry up a little bit, and will get extra crisp. I love that. Yeah, people should just practice and adjust and taste.

• 32:49Ina Garten?

  I kind of learned my lesson for a long time when we were in France, in Paris for New Year's Eve. I would make lemon capellini with caviar. And I did it the traditional way, it was in my first book. And I would cook the pasta, I'd cook the sauce, and then put the pasta in a bowl.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  I think I know this recipe.

• 33:05Ina Garten?

  What?

• 33:05Speaker 01

  I think I know this recipe.

• 33:06Ina Garten?

  Oh, do you know the recipe?

• 33:07Speaker 01

  I think you put either crème fraiche or, is there any cream in it?

• 33:10Ina Garten?

  No, there's no cream in it, but it's lemon, a lot of butter.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  Okay, butter, butter.

• 33:15Ina Garten?

  Salt, there's a lot of butter. And that, but I would put the pasta in the bowl and then pour the sauce over it. And it was, and then serve it with a dollop of caviar for New Year's Eve. And it was delicious. But then one day I thought, "This is crazy. It's backwards." The way Italians do it is they cook the pasta and put it into the sauce, and then cook it together. It was the same ingredients, it was a completely different dish. It had, because the flavor got into the pasta. And it's capellini, so it's thin. It's not like, but it was, it really was a

• 33:46Speaker 01

  It becomes one.

• 33:46Ina Garten?

  Lesson to me about how to, how to get flavor into the middle of something.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  I'm gonna make that for New Year's now. I'm like, that sounds

• 33:54Ina Garten?

  It's so easy, it's ridiculous.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  I might sneak in some crab in there, too.

• 33:58Ina Garten?

  Oh, that'd be, I think I might be doing that myself. That's a really good idea.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Crab, butter, lemon, and caviar.

• 34:05Ina Garten?

  And the good thing about it, when we go to Paris for New Year's, what we do is very often we'll go to a great bar, like the Maurice or something like that, have some drinks, and then come home. And at like 11:30, I have to make dinner. And you have to make dinner in like 20 minutes. Everybody's sitting there waiting for dinner. So that's the fastest dish, because the capellini cooks so fast.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  And mom is like a pasta or steak for New Year's. That's a good trick.

• 34:28Ina Garten?

  Well, this is a good, that's a good one. We'll both be making that. We'll be talking on New Year's Eve about how good the crab is. Have you had a sliding doors moment when everything changed because you did one thing or one thing happened to you? Is there ever a moment where you just said, "My life is gonna be different from now on"?

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Um, I feel like I've had that a lot.

• 34:49Ina Garten?

  Oh, have you really? Isn't that wonderful?

• 34:51Speaker 01

  A lot. It's crazy to me when I think, I think Chape Nise was one. That completely changed

• 34:57Ina Garten?

  You make that happen.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  That was a big one. I think when I said yes to being considered an applicant for Bon Appetit, I didn't plan to apply or anything. Someone put my name in and

• 35:11Ina Garten?

  Somebody else put your name in?

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, they said, "You should apply for this job." And I was like, "No." And I think that makes a fear, anxiety, is what gives me

• 35:21Ina Garten?

  I'm not good enough for it.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, I think that's, I used to think that was a negative thing. I think it's a strength of mine of like doubting myself just a little bit, or enough where it kind of makes me push myself. It gives me that extra edge. And then I think asking my husband out for dinner. We had known each other for two years. And I thought, "Oh, it's two years, we're just friends at this point." And we both happened, we were working at Conde Nast. He was at Architectural Digest, I was at Bon Appetit. And we ended up having dinner, and everything that I thought I knew about him in the past two years completely changed in this two-hour meal.

• 35:59Ina Garten?

  Isn't that wonderful?

• 35:59Speaker 01

  And then we had two more dates, and then we moved in together.

• 36:03Ina Garten?

  And the rest is history, right?

• 36:04Speaker 01

  And then we moved in together.

• 36:07Ina Garten?

  Well, can I toast a sliding door moment?

• 36:09Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 36:10Ina Garten?

  That brought you to this table?

• 36:11Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 36:11Ina Garten?

  Thank you so much.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 36:12Ina Garten?

  So happy to know you.

• 36:17Ina Garten?

  Happy Hour is hosted by me, Ina Garten. Our executive producers are Jenna Weiss-Berman, Suzie Lechtenberg, Alejai F. Ramus, and Deborah Davis. Kate Tyler is a contributing producer. Justine Don, a senior producer. Jules Knapp is a producer. Mika Pollan-Bon is our associate producer. Tim Fernandez is the video editor, with sound recording by Joe Plord. Our camera operators for this episode are Joe Valenzuela and Zoe Gregorick. Music for the show is by Pink Martini. Special thanks to cinematographer Dion Beebe. Happy Hour with Ina is produced by Goodweight Productions and is a Vox Media podcast.

• 37:11Ina Garten?

  Support for the show comes from Whole Foods Market. There's something about autumn that makes everyone want to gather around the table. The flavors become brighter, the recipe's a little more comforting, and even the simplest meals feel like celebrations. When you begin with high-quality ingredients, you don't have to do much to make them shine. From pomegranates and pears to thoughtfully curated cheeses from around the world, Whole Foods Market has beautiful, fresh ingredients that can work for you. For your next everyday meal or gathering with friends, shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online.