Episode 445: Amy Chapman: How Voice Control Techniques Can Transform Your Life and Career

Ever wonder how some voices can captivate audiences? In this Habits and Hustle podcast episode, I am joined by Amy Chapman, a highly sought-after vocal therapist who has worked with stars like Shakira, Sia, and Anthony Kiedis. We discuss how anyone can harness vocal techniques to sound more authoritative, likable, or persuasive depending on their objectives. We also explore the psychological connection between voice and confidence, why "down talk" commands more respect than "up talk," and how simple adjustments in your speaking patterns can dramatically change how people perceive you. Amy Chapman is a board-certified speech-language pathologist who combines clinical expertise with artistic experience. Her career spans television, music, and corporate settings, where she helps clients optimize their voice health, expand their range, and enhance their performance. She's also the lead voice coach for "The Masked Singer" and works with CEOs and business leaders to improve their communication effectiveness. What We Discuss: (00:00) Confidence and Self-Worth (19:55) Voice Training for Artists and Professionals (27:50) Voice Influence on Perception and Outcomes (32:16) Voice Dynamics and Communication Mastery (41:18) Mastering Voice Techniques for Engagement (47:13) Effective Communication Through Vocal Training (52:43) Developing Warmth and Authentic Communication (58:43) Embracing Authenticity and Self-Presentation (01:11:44) Morning Routine as Meditative Practice …and more! Thank you to our sponsors: Therasage: Head over to therasage.com http://therasage.com/ and use code Be Bold for 15% off TruNiagen: Head over to truniagen.com http://truniagen.com/ and use code HUSTLE20 to get $20 off any purchase over $100. Magic Mind: Head over to www http://www/.magicmind.com http://magicmind.com//jen and use code Jen at checkout. Air Doctor: Go to airdoctorpro.com http://airdoctorpro.com/ and use promo code HUSTLE for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers. Bio.me: Link to daily prebiotic fiber here https://bio.me/?utm_source=Jennifer, code Jennifer20 for 20% off. Momentous: Shop this link https://www.livemomentous.com/?srsltid=AfmBOorDUIZz3psr1Qsq_n1yE8_6JTq_QUFabOO9lH65HDEXCIoJOPLj and use code Jen for 20% off Find more from Jen: Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement Find more from Amy Chapman: Website: https://www.voicelabla.com/#home Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amychapman/?hl=en

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it!

• 0:08Jen Cohen?

  Do you ever wonder why some voices captivate while others go unnoticed? On this episode of Habits and Hustle, I'm joined by top vocal therapist Amy Chapman, who's worked with stars like Shakira, Sia, and Anthony Kiedis, just to name a few. We uncover how mastering your voice can boost your confidence, enhance communication, and unlock success, both personally and professionally. From the science of voice to simple techniques to sound more powerful, more likeable, or persuasive, you'll learn how you speak matters, just as much as what you say. Stick around and let me know what you think after the episode.

• 0:57Jen Cohen?

  Before we dive into today's episode, I want to thank our sponsor, Momentous. When your goal is health span, living better and longer, there are very few non-negotiables. One of them: quality. And when it comes to supplements designed for high performers, nobody does it better than Momentous. Momentus goes all-in on NSF certification, which means every single batch is tested for heavy metals, harmful additives, and label accuracy. And that's why they're trusted by all 32 NFL teams and top collegiate sports dietitians across the country. Here's the thing: they don't sell every supplement under the sun,

• 1:39Jen Cohen?

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• 2:22Jen Cohen?

  Today on the podcast, we have my very new friend. Her name is Amy Chapman. And this girl is, first of all, the best personality ever. But besides that, she is the, I don't even know what we call it, the biggest voice coach guru expert on the planet. And when I read off and riddle off her resume, you'll understand what I mean. Listen to this. She is a highly sought after vocal therapist, renowned singing voice specialist, and leading expert in voice optimization. With an unparalleled combination of clinical expertise and artistic experience, Amy has built a remarkable career transforming the voices of some of the world's most celebrated performers.

• 3:07Jen Cohen?

  As a licensed and board certified speech language pathologist, she brings a deep scientific understanding of vocal health and physiology to her work. Listen to some of her clients, guys. Amy's career spans a diverse range of industries from television to touring music artist, where she's worked with some major stars like Shakira, Sia, Meghan Trainor, Idina Menzel, Anthony Kiedis, my personal favorite, and so many others. She's helped these global icons optimize their voice health, expand their range, enhance their performance, and prevent vocal strain. And I can go on and on. She's also like the lead voice coach for that show, The Masked Singer. I mean, there's so many things. It's unbelievable.

• 3:51Jen Cohen?

  And when I, when I, when I, when I met you, the fact, like, how many things? I've, I learned so much in that one conversation when I first met you that I, I had to have you on this show. So thanks for being here.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  I'm so happy to be here. And it gets me so excited every time somebody reads that. I'm like, God, I'm so cool. I'm like, God, it is good, but I have such a high self-esteem anyway. And I'm like, yes, good job, Amy.

• 4:16Jen Cohen?

  You know what's amazing? I, I love that you don't feign like, you know, compliments like that. Because so many times people sit here and they're like, oh, like they, they try to feign humility, right? Like, oh, you're like, no, I am the shit. Like I've done all this stuff. I've like have a huge career. I've done it. I'm doing it. And you own it.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  You know what? When we talk about, I know we're going to talk about like confident voice and all that. But I think with the confidence, the self-esteem is so huge. And in my office, in my studio that I have people, I always said like, this is a brag friendly zone. I want no humility whatsoever. Like if you sounded good, be like, yes, I sounded good. Cause when we start to do the like, that wasn't so good. And then you're like, ew.

• 4:58Jen Cohen?

  I totally agree.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  Nobody wants to be with that.

• 5:01Jen Cohen?

  I, I don't know why. It's also like a very like women, women do that, right? They always like, no, no, like they want to be smaller than they really are. And if they, they're good, they have to apologize.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 5:13Jen Cohen?

  For being good.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  Ooh, I don't apologize for being good.

• 5:15Jen Cohen?

  Apparently not. No, no, you're like, keep on reading.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  I was like, there's more. Go to the next paragraph.

• 5:22Jen Cohen?

  I know. You're probably like, you left out a few lines there Jennifer, why?

• 5:25Speaker 02

  I've got a few more. Who do you want to hear? No, yeah, we're so taught to be like humility and humble pie, but like, why?

• 5:33Jen Cohen?

  I don't know. You know, you said something, I, I always wonder this and I ask this a lot, like to myself, right? Like what is the true difference between self-esteem and confidence? Right? Do you know what the difference is?

• 5:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:43Jen Cohen?

  Okay, tell me.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Confidence is like, you're confident in your ability to do something. Self-esteem is your worth.

• 5:50Jen Cohen?

  Hmm, that's right.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  So you can have one or not the other, like a football player can be like, I'm confident in the way that I can throw this ball. But I don't like myself.

• 5:59Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  But if you like yourself and you can throw that ball, you're winning all around.

• 6:05Jen Cohen?

  You know, I don't even know, how does someone even, I know we haven't even gotten into the voice stuff yet, but like, this is one of these topics that I talk about a lot because it's like, how do you truly teach somebody to have a sense of self-worth or a self, a self-esteem? Because you're right, confidence, you could be, you can feel confident. It's also like, it's, it's fluid. You could be confident one day because you feel confident that you can do one particular thing. And then something happens or you can't, you don't feel confident the next day. But true self-worth, that is hard to teach somebody. Either you kind of have it or you kind of don't, but do, or in my opinion, but do you think there's ways we can help or, or teach that to people?

• 6:48Speaker 02

  Totally. I mean, like if we think of our own self-talk of like, that wasn't good. That wasn't so great. I don't look so good. Every day I look in the mirror and I do, you know, the first I had once a therapist who was like, you need to do the self-talk and like tell yourself the positive things. And my eyes rolled so far back in my head. I was like, I'm not, I'm not gonna do that. Like, I'm not gonna sit and be like, you're beautiful, you're smart and someone likes you. I'm not gonna do that.

• 7:15Jen Cohen?

  Oh God, neither would I a hundred percent. It's so awkward.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  It's so awkward, but if you're telling yourself that over and over and over and you're like, girl, you're hot. You are doing great. You are amazing. Your personality is good. Look at your life. If you just tell yourself that, it's that fake it till you make it.

• 7:34Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  You'll start to fall in line and be like, I am God, you know, I am hot. My body is great. I am, I am successful. Like you listen.

• 7:43Jen Cohen?

  So the way I, I, I agree, but I think the way I, I would always define it is if you want to have true self-worth, do things for yourself that make you really feel truly good about yourself.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 7:55Jen Cohen?

  For me, it was like exercise and working out. When I took that seriously, it taught me such foundational skills about life. Like fitness for me was like a microcosm.

• 8:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:04Jen Cohen?

  For real life, like the patience, the discipline. And when you start like honing in on these like foundational skills and you know, you can actually get through hard things, it gives you self-esteem.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 8:15Jen Cohen?

  That's to me what I felt like you, I'm like, I worked out, I work out all the time. So I know I have an okay body. So why am I gonna like pretend that I don't think so? Like, oh no, you know what I mean?

• 8:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. You're like, no, I work at it.

• 8:27Jen Cohen?

  Yeah. Like this is not.

• 8:28Speaker 02

  I earned this.

• 8:29Jen Cohen?

  I earned this.

• 8:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:30Jen Cohen?

  So I think when someone feels like they work for something and they take action to get something, that helps them with their self-esteem as well.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  I think that's big. I think also like working on whatever it is, however you do it. So whether it's working out, which I wish I could say the same, that I work out every single day. I don't, but I work every single day. And that's the thing that I'm like, I'm good at this because I do this day in, day out. You know what I'm saying?

• 8:53Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, like so, because you were, were you, when you were younger, were you just, were you a singer?

• 8:58Speaker 02

  I was a singer, yeah.

• 8:59Jen Cohen?

  So you were like an artist?

• 9:01Speaker 02

  I wouldn't call myself an artist.

• 9:03Jen Cohen?

  Okay, what would you call yourself?

• 9:04Speaker 02

  A singer. So there's such a difference.

• 9:05Jen Cohen?

  Okay, tell me.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  Between an artist and a singer. A singer is like someone who can sing. An artist is, there's an artistry behind it. So I would look at someone like Amy Winehouse and be like, you're an artist. Like you see that difference of someone who's like, she's doing her own thing. She has that brand, that style. And then someone else, I don't even want to say like, like I think Ariana Grande is a wonderful singer. And some people would call her an artist. But I'm like, you're a great singer and your art is in that voice of that beautiful sound. Or maybe like Taylor Swift is a good one.

• 9:41Jen Cohen?

  That's a great example of, let's stick to the Ariana because I was listening to her on a podcast and I thought to myself kind of, she said that she writes her own music. I didn't know that she did, but by the way, I thought she just had a beautiful voice and that people write her music. I didn't, I don't know one way or the other. Maybe you know.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  Sometimes it's a mix of both.

• 10:00Jen Cohen?

  Okay, but I think it becomes a mix of both when you're a huge star, right? So, but I always thought that she was a great, she had a beautiful voice that made her a great singer. But you're right, I never looked at her as an artist. She didn't come across.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:13Jen Cohen?

  Is there a difference between an artist, a singer and a star? Or is a star and an artist the same thing?

• 10:19Speaker 02

  No, because you can be an artist and not be a star, right?

• 10:23Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, that's a hundred percent true.

• 10:25Speaker 02

  You can be like a fantastic artist, but nobody knows you or very few people know you. So you're not a star level. And you can be an awesome singer and not an artist. You can be an awesome artist and not really a singer.

• 10:37Jen Cohen?

  So Ariana would be more of a star.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  She's a star, she's a singer. And you know what? Some people are going to watch this and be like, Amy, you're wrong. She is an artist. And I think that is completely subjective. If someone's an artist or not. Isn't that you go back to the question and you're like, well, what is art?

• 10:54Jen Cohen?

  Hmm.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  What makes somebody an artist?

• 10:56Jen Cohen?

  Like Taylor Swift, you were gonna say something about her.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  I was gonna say, Taylor Swift, to me, I'm like, you are a singer, you are a star. And some people will call you an artist, but I'm like, I call you a singer. And a great singer.

• 11:05Jen Cohen?

  So why? Why would she not be an artist?

• 11:08Speaker 02

  To me, personally, I'm gonna get so much shit for this.

• 11:11Jen Cohen?

  You'll never get hired by them ever.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  I know, I'm so sorry. Her people even like, reached out to me recently and I'm like, now they'll never.

• 11:18Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, now they're gonna hire someone else, some random.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  Someone completely else. I'm really shooting myself in the foot. My husband was like, watch your mouth when you go on the show. I'm like, I can't, I can't. Things just come out.

• 11:28Jen Cohen?

  By the way, which makes you even more likeable.

• 11:30Speaker 02

  Cause I'm just like, I'm so sorry, it's coming and I'm not gonna stop it. Um, to me, I'm like, you're great. And like, that's what you are.

• 11:39Jen Cohen?

  But what, okay, so if someone-

• 11:40Speaker 02

  I'm not, I'm not thrown back and excited and like, ooh, when I hear someone like an Amy Winehouse or like, I'm trying to think of like, all the different people, the Grammys, and I'm like, oh, that was different. That was art.

• 11:53Jen Cohen?

  Okay, so that's, okay, so this is very interesting because Taylor Swift, right? She writes her own music. Maybe now she does, like she has a million people who collaborate with her, write herself. But that was like her whole thing. She was a singer-songwriter, right? Doesn't, I thought if someone's a songwriter and they're a performer, that kind of create, makes them more of an artist.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they are an artist. I'm, I'm really just giving my own.

• 12:16Jen Cohen?

  But I see what you're saying because the truth is when I think of like an artist, I think of someone who's more, there's more darkness there.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Darkness, a creativeness. Like, I look at Sia and I'm like, ooh, you are an artist. And you're a singer, and you're a star. You're all of those things.

• 12:32Jen Cohen?

  Yes, cause she, is it because there's like a uniqueness to them?

• 12:35Speaker 02

  Something, it's different. You see it and you're like, that's art, that is different. You're creating a whole other path for you and that you're portraying that.

• 12:44Jen Cohen?

  Right, and like, nobody could, can copy it really, cause there's only gonna be one Sia.

• 12:48Speaker 02

  Cause then you'd be like, oh, you sound like Sia.

• 12:50Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  You know, like, you have a brand, you have that art, you are, put your stamp on it and it's you.

• 12:55Jen Cohen?

  And you've worked with her before.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:57Jen Cohen?

  And so like, how does an, how does a artist, like, how do you work with an artist versus just a singer? Is there a difference?

• 13:04Speaker 02

  Yes, and every artist is different.

• 13:07Jen Cohen?

  You're an art, you're an artist.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  I'm an artist, but not an artist in my singing.

• 13:12Jen Cohen?

  I know, you think you're a singer.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, sure, I have a little bit of style when I sing, yes, but I'm not like, oh, I created my own thing and this is my art and I need to, it's not like that. My art is how I work with people.

• 13:27Jen Cohen?

  Right, I understand that. I know we're gonna get back to, but I'm curious, we just talked about Sia. So like, working with an artist like her, what's, like, how do you work with her versus a singer or a star?

• 13:37Speaker 02

  Cool. So I would, with a singer, I'd mold them. I'd be like, I'm gonna tell you what to do. You're gonna do this riff, you're gonna change your voice this way, make this sound like this. I will give artists, I will give singers coaching, and artists, I will give support. So I'm not gonna tell Sia where to put her voice and how to do her riff. That's her thing. But I will tell her the things to optimize what she does. So a lot of people come to me, especially with like nodules or vocal difficulties or something going on with their voice, since I am a voice therapist, I work and I treat the voice. But I'm not gonna change them, meaning I'm not gonna say like, don't sing breathy and husky like that anymore.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  Sing clean and clear, even though that would be better for their voice, it would be healthier. I'm not gonna do that, because I'm not gonna change you as an artist. And I think that's why a lot of artists like me, because I'm not trying to change them. A lot of other voice therapists, and I'm not saying they're doing anything wrong, everybody has their own style, will be like, that's not healthy, so sing it a little bit more clear and a little bit more pingy and a little bit more right there. And they're like, no, I don't want to. I'm an artist. This is my thing. I sing it like this. So how can I do it like this, but healthier?

• 14:51Jen Cohen?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:52Speaker 02

  So that's how I would be different with an artist versus a singer.

• 14:56Jen Cohen?

  So you were a singer, tell me, so let's go back to you for a minute now. Because you were a singer, not an artist. So how did you, what was your evolution? Because given your personality, you, like, you seem to have the package. Like, I heard you sing with my mom earlier. You were singing like opera.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I trained in opera when I was a kid. That's how I started, is classically singing. And I was like, this is so much fun. And then I went to a performing arts high school and it was so much fun. And obviously, I'm a performer. You can see it in me. I don't stop. And I love it. And then I went to UCLA for musical theater, and there was a certain point, I... I had a masterclass with Diane Keaton and she said, if you can do anything else in this world, do it. And I was like, oh, I can do a lot of things. And that's where I, and I come from a very medical family and they're all healers. My dad's a doctor, my mom's a nurse, my brother-in-law's a doctor, my cousin's a doctor, like everybody's doctors in my

• 15:53Speaker 02

  family. And I love to heal. I love to teach. I love to heal. I love to take care of people. And I also love music and voice. And then I put it all together. I was like, I can take that and help that and be a voice healer. And then it turns into coaching because no one wants to be injured. No one likes to be injured.

• 16:12Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  So it's all about the coaching and every singer who's a professional singer is like a little bit injured because you're using your voice so much. It's just like every football player has a bum knee or a back hurts.

• 16:22Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  When you are an athlete of whatever it is, your body takes a toll.

• 16:26Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  You need someone to have support. So then it started going into that. And the way that I just, I work with voice, I hear voice, I feel voice, and I really intuit what people are doing. And it just built my reputation of that, of doing that. So I went to, after, after that, I went to school for speech pathology.

• 16:45Jen Cohen?

  Okay.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  Got a masters in speech pathology, started working with really injured singers, and then it just sort of blended to all voice. I work in animated voice. I help people make sounds. I help people like who have like funny little voices and they do funny things. I like help them shape their voice. I work on Rick and Morty. I help the new Rick and Morty characters sound like the old Rick and Morty because I can hear and I can feel what people are doing with their voice and what they need to be doing with their voice.

• 17:10Jen Cohen?

  Well, so that's so fascinating, right? Like, it's, so your path was, is very, like, it's very unique, right? Because you were, or is it not? Like, do most people who do what you do, who are voice coaches and voice experts, do, are they usually, were they usually singers prior?

• 17:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would say like, pretty much every voice teacher and voice coach was a singer at some point. It's a weird profession to go into if you weren't.

• 17:36Jen Cohen?

  Well, yeah. Or how many, or, or how many people who have voice, who, who become a voice patho, not patho, what is it called?

• 17:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, voice therapist.

• 17:43Jen Cohen?

  Voice therapist, pathologist, go into voice coaching.

• 17:47Speaker 02

  Not that many.

• 17:48Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  There are not that many voice therapists. Like, this is a very niche, and then I took it even more niche. So like, I am really, really right there. But I, I brought it so far to the niche point, that then I expanded it out to not niche. Like, everybody's got a voice.

• 18:06Jen Cohen?

  Right. And then you just help, you help them.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:10Jen Cohen?

  So how did you get like, I'm obsessed with Anthony Kiedis, but, because I just think that he's so, he's an artist.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  He's an artist.

• 18:17Jen Cohen?

  Right?

• 18:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:17Jen Cohen?

  How did you get into that lane of working with some of these, the biggest names in the world? Like Shakira, Anthony Kiedis, whoever.

• 18:24Speaker 02

  A lot of times, the managers will find me.

• 18:26Jen Cohen?

  How? What was the first time?

• 18:29Speaker 02

  I think Sia was the first time. And I sign a lot of NDAs for a lot of things, so I can't talk about like.

• 18:34Jen Cohen?

  Too late now?

• 18:35Speaker 02

  I know. Well, they're fine, but I can't talk about everybody and why they come to me for certain things.

• 18:40Jen Cohen?

  Okay.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  But, they'll find me if they're going on tour. And they just need some tour training. And my name has floated around there. You know, I think managers and tour managers all know, and they're like, cool. My client's about to do a big year-long tour. They're having maybe some issues. Or we just want to make sure that they're strong, so we don't cancel shows. So, can you work with them before? And then they meet me and they're like, okay, I like you.

• 19:04Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 19:04Speaker 02

  And they just keep me on for life.

• 19:05Jen Cohen?

  What I always am curious about, like even watching the Grammys, right? How do these people run around for, like, and sing at the same time? I know that's probably most of it's, there's like a voice track behind. But for the artists who are really artists, and they're going on tour for two hours, how are they able to like, sing and then dance at the same time?

• 19:27Speaker 02

  I have an elliptical in my office.

• 19:29Jen Cohen?

  You do?

• 19:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do. And it's so people can sing and breathe and huff and puff and sing all at the same time. But yeah, cardio's a big part of it.

• 19:39Jen Cohen?

  I remember Nicole Scherzinger, I was at, working out beside me many, many years ago. And she was running and singing at the same time to train, to, to, to learn how to, to train herself.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Yep, yep.

• 19:51Jen Cohen?

  Right?

• 19:52Speaker 02

  Beyonce does the same thing.

• 19:53Jen Cohen?

  She runs in.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  Miley Cyrus does the same thing. Yeah.

• 19:56Jen Cohen?

  They run and, and sing at the same thing.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  Yep, yep. Because you need to train your voice to be able to come together while you're like,

• 20:06Speaker 02

  so you're doing that. So yeah, it's, it's all the training.

• 20:08Jen Cohen?

  How else do you control your voice? How, how else do you teach people to control their voice like that?

• 20:12Speaker 02

  I mean, breath, breath support, bringing a big wide breath and not letting it all out. So the big wide, spread your rib cage out and hold your breath and then be able to talk, but not just, not letting it all out. So keeping that support.

• 20:29Jen Cohen?

  And like in a dynamite, like who's like massive, right? So she's frozen, she's all these things. Can you tell me why you're going to, that's where you're going right now to do in New York?

• 20:39Speaker 02

  She's doing a show, opening a new Broadway musical called Redwoods. It's fantastic. And yeah, just helping her prepare for that, making sure that she's going to stay strong throughout because Broadway is a whole different beast. You have to do eight shows a week.

• 20:52Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  So she's singing eight shows a week. And so I'm making sure that her voice is strong, that she can do all these things with a lot of this stuff. So A, we're training her voice. That's like muscle coming together.

• 21:04Jen Cohen?

  How do you train a voice? Like what do you, how does it work? Give me like,

• 21:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:08Jen Cohen?

  If I go to the gym, I go to train my legs, I'm going to do my squats and my lunges and do all those things. Like, you know, I know how to train my, you know, your body. How do you train your voice? Just by practicing?

• 21:19Speaker 02

  Practicing and very specific exercises. If somebody has a weaker voice or their voice is like a little bit breathy and they sort of talk like this, I will give them a hard exercise like,

• 21:33Speaker 02

  hold that, right? Just holding a long, hard, ah, go up the scale. It's muscles. Your vocal cords are the size of your thumbnail. Do you know that? So teeny tiny and all it is is little tissue. And then there's muscles on the side. So you bring it together. So I will have a soft voice like that. Ah, give that really big, loud sound, but not in a place where they're screaming and hurting themselves. But something that's really nice and supportive. And then if somebody has a voice that's too hard and too rough, then I'm going to take it down. Ah, and I'll be like, okay, now for you, it's different. We're all so different. Everybody's vocal cords look different. Everybody's body's different. Everybody's throat, everybody's mouth, everybody's size, everybody's so different.

• 22:17Speaker 02

  So there's not one way how to do everything.

• 22:20Jen Cohen?

  Okay, but if someone, because a lot of times people's voice are strained because they're like you said, disdorsal. Like she's doing eight shows on Broadway.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 22:28Jen Cohen?

  Or people are like Anthony Kiedis, who's screaming and yelling for five hours while he's performing. Don't they just, if you're training them, don't, isn't, don't they just need recovery and just, just to not sing and not talk?

• 22:40Speaker 02

  Well, that's a part of it sometimes, and sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's like, no, you need the strength to be able to do that.

• 22:46Jen Cohen?

  Right. How do you strengthen a voice?

• 22:47Speaker 02

  Exactly that. So if I'm going ah.

• 22:50Jen Cohen?

  But isn't he doing ah for five hours?

• 22:52Speaker 02

  No, because when you're performing, it's a little different. You're singing things and bouncing off walls and doing something else. But if you're sitting there, it's just the same as lifting weights. You're lifting weights, but with your voice. So you're sitting there and you're holding it and you're holding it in the right place. All your muscles are coming together in the right place. So then all of a sudden you're out and you're like, oh, now I can just do whatever and I have that strength. Like you work out, you do sit ups. So then you have nice abs when you're out on the beach. It's the same.

• 23:20Jen Cohen?

  Not if you eat really badly, but okay.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  And that's why I'm not wearing a bikini on the beach. But, but you do that. You train your voice with strength exercises. Or taking away strength exercises. You're not screaming on stage. So you're doing something else and your vocal cords are coming together softer. So you don't need that much recovery time.

• 23:45Jen Cohen?

  How do you, okay, so how would you, for a regular person who's not an artist, pop star, or singer, just like a regular business person, mom, whoever, how can they optimize their voice in any way that, like, if I wanna, if I wanna sound more serious and more authoritative, how do I train my voice to be that way? How do I train my voice, like, that video that you just said, right? Like, what, like, I hired a speech therapist to fix my boring voice?

• 24:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:15Jen Cohen?

  So how does someone fix their boring voice to sound better?

• 24:19Speaker 02

  I wanna answer this, and I also wanna ask you a question.

• 24:21Jen Cohen?

  Go ahead.

• 24:22Speaker 02

  What voice do you like? What do you like to listen to?

• 24:25Jen Cohen?

  In general?

• 24:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. If there's a person you like, or a sound that you're like, oh.

• 24:30Jen Cohen?

  Okay. I like, I do like Sia.

• 24:34Speaker 02

  Uh huh. It can, it can even be a speaking voice. Doesn't it have to be a singing voice?

• 24:37Jen Cohen?

  Okay, what voice, what kind of voice do I like?

• 24:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. Is there somebody that you're like, I love to listen to them? Or, on the contrary, is there somebody that you hate to listen to?

• 24:47Jen Cohen?

  I have a lot of people I hate listening to. I can name a hundred right now. You know, I like listening to people who have an English accent.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 24:55Jen Cohen?

  Or an Australian accent.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  Love an accent.

• 24:58Jen Cohen?

  Right, me too.

• 24:58Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 24:59Jen Cohen?

  And who kinda comes, who's, has a softness. I don't want a hardcore voice, cuz I'm around it all the time.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 25:09Jen Cohen?

  Right?

• 25:09Speaker 02

  What does it do to you?

• 25:10Jen Cohen?

  I don't know. I guess it may, I, I never thought about it. I don't, actually, let me change my answer. It's, the, the voice I would like depends on what I'm listening to it for.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:20Jen Cohen?

  So if I am looking for someone to help me with business, I'd want them to sound self-assured.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:29Jen Cohen?

  And confident.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:30Jen Cohen?

  If I want, if I'm trying to chill out or relax and fall asleep, I would like a soft, soothing voice.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  Totally, totally. So, everything is different for everything. For every situation, I want a different voice.

• 25:43Jen Cohen?

  Mm hmm.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  Like you said, when I listen to your podcast, cuz I did a lot of listening to your podcast before I came on this.

• 25:50Jen Cohen?

  Okay.

• 25:50Speaker 02

  And you have Tony Robbins, who's giving a clip right before, and he goes, "You're listening to Happens in Hustle, Crash." And I'm like, oh. Terrible. Yeah. I it's like it it hurts me to hear that. And obviously, Tony's very successful. Yes. He knows what he's doing. But his voice, that rough, he's like yelling it. He's like, go, go, go. He's a motivational speaker. That is what he does. And that voice tells me that he works hard, that he goes and goes and goes and doesn't stop, that he doesn't care necessarily about that softness and that bringing that in. He wants you to go. So he's influencing with his voice, with that rough and da, da, da, for you to go. He is like your coach.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  She's your soccer coach, your football coach. She's like, go, go, go, go, go. But if I'm doing a yoga class, I'd be like, nah, bro. Yeah, I can't. I can't listen to that right now. It like gives me this. So your voice influences the same way if you're listening to music. When I got into the car to get here, they were playing classical music. And I told my driver, I was like, this is exactly what I needed right now. And because my life has been so crazy. I'm heading out to New York right after this. I'm packing, I'm doing all the things. And I just wanted that classical music. But if she had like rock and it was going and it was hard, I'd be like, no, I don't need that. It's the same with voice. It influences our body in a different way. Yeah. So if somebody is like, how can I optimize my voice?

• 27:20Speaker 02

  I want to take it a step further and say, optimize it for what? What do you want people to feel when they're listening to you? If you're a mom, like you said, if it's just a mom, who's she talking to? She telling her kids to clean their room? Is she trying to assert her dominance in something? Like, what is the situation that you are trying to get a certain outcome? So for me, right now, in my mind, I want to tell you I'm a pro at this. I know what I'm doing. I know how I'm sounding. And my objective in this is to sound confident and knowledgeable. And so when I want to sound more confident and knowledgeable, I'm not all the way over here.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Here, I'm not like dragging my voice long. I'm a little bit more to the point and I'm a little lower in my pitch and I'm not going uptalk. So my voice isn't going up, but I'm a little bit more downtalk. So the end of my sounds all go down. So it's a comment, not a question, but a comment. So it's different. Every single outcome is based on your objective. That makes sense.

• 28:29Jen Cohen?

  Great answer. I'm gonna clip that.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  Clip that. I gave a lot to clip about.

• 28:32Jen Cohen?

  That was a great, that's a great. So when you want to sound more dominant or authoritative, you, your voice should go down.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Yes, that's a huge thing. You hear so many people and not everybody knows why they have a feeling of that person is not making me comfortable. But if I hear somebody and her voice is like this and she's saying, hi Jen, I'm Amy and I'm a voice coach and I sometime. Like you're like enough, I can't, right?

• 29:05Jen Cohen?

  You don't take them seriously.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  I would tell them, I would say, number one, is it a question? Cause if a question goes up at the end, right?

• 29:12Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Huh? You hear that and immediately I question. And if I'm questioning something that somebody else is saying, I don't have confidence in that. That just like flies out the window.

• 29:22Jen Cohen?

  Yep.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  But if she goes down, so now I'm gonna take that same kind of pinch, small voice and I'm gonna say, hi, I'm Amy and I do this. You're like, okay, that's a little better. And then that pinch right in here, I'm like, that's too small. I want to show big. And kids are small and we hear kids' voices in a different way. They're children, they're small, they're little, so it's all little. When I tell people, I say, open your throat. We have so much space that we don't always use. So then I open my throat. If, if you hear pitch, this note, ah, ah, that's the same note. But the second one sounds so much lower, right? You hear it in your brain. It's not, it's the same, but my space in my throat is different. One, two, three, four, five, one, two, three, four, five.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  All of a sudden you're like, well, that's like a confident woman on that second one. And like a little kid in the first one.

• 30:14Jen Cohen?

  Can you teach someone who normally talk like, like Ariana Grande, let's go back to her.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 30:18Jen Cohen?

  If you hear her talk, she talks like a baby.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:21Jen Cohen?

  And she has a squeaky voice.

• 30:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:23Jen Cohen?

  But when she sings, she doesn't have that voice.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  Right, because she's controlling it and she's control, she has great control over her voice. But she's not controlling her speaking. I don't know if she's not doing it because she doesn't want to, because she doesn't care, because she wants to give the impression of like, I want to be smaller. Because sometimes people like that.

• 30:39Jen Cohen?

  I think, I think it's done on purpose.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  So we never know. And that's why I'm never like, there's one right answer. There's not one right answer.

• 30:46Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  It's what's your objective?

• 30:47Jen Cohen?

  Because that's a, I love that you said that because that is so true. If you want to convey like, I'm just a sweet, nice, like I, non-confrontational or like, you know, I don't, I'm not, I'm not a bitchy, you know, it, it kind of gives off this, this idea that you're just like sweet and nice and basic and dumb.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have a friend who's a, a big show host. I won't say on where. And she was having, uh, and she's just like so cute and you'd see her and she sounds like this. And she's just like bubbly and so sweet. And she was having a talk with her managers and lawyers. And she put her foot down and she was speaking like this. And they were like, whoa. And she had to backtrack and say, oh, don't mind me. I'm just like a crazy little Latin chica. And you're like, she did that on purpose. She had to put her voice in that place for them to be like, oh, okay.

• 31:41Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  Now, now we like you. So she's using that small little voice to her advantage. So it's not like we all need to have this big booming low voice. Sometimes, you know, like women can be kind of manipulative. And in a great way.

• 31:56Jen Cohen?

  Well, that's what I'm saying. I'm sure like even Ariana, and I think you're probably talking about Shakira, but I don't know.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  No, I'm not. I'm actually not.

• 32:01Jen Cohen?

  Okay. Because what I was going to say, because you said Latin, that's why.

• 32:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:04Jen Cohen?

  But what I was going to say is it's much more likeable when people are not intimidated by you. So when you are talking with like authority, with your voice down.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 32:16Jen Cohen?

  People are sometimes off put because they're more intimidated.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:20Jen Cohen?

  And, and more nervous to be around you, especially as a. A woman, people will think that you're bitchy or rude or bossy.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:28Jen Cohen?

  So when you when you act like that.

• 32:32Jen Cohen?

  And it's much easier for everyone to like to play nicely because they're not you're not a threat.

• 32:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that's why I'm like, what's your objective? What is it? And it can change. So I like to give people tools. That you're gonna have a whole tool belt of things that you can choose from. If you're in a room where you want people like like you and think you're so funny and cute and sweet, then you can talk in such a different way. But if you're in a place where you need to lay down the law and this is not okay, then you can speak in a different way. And some people are like, but isn't that fake? It's like, what's fake? It's your voice. It's what you're trying to get across. Why is it fake? We all have different ways. If I'm getting pulled over by a policeman and I'm talking to my best friend who I'm just like shooting the shit with and I'm just talking like this. I'm not gonna talk to the policeman that way. I'm gonna be saying, hi, officer, I'm so sorry. What was I doing? I'm gonna change the way I speak. We code switch.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  We do it all the time. We do it with our parents, with our in-laws, with our kids, with our teachers, with whoever. I am code switching throughout the day. And I think that's huge. It makes me more successful. It makes the clients I'm working with, they're not like, this girl doesn't know what she's talking about. It's like, oh, no, she does. But then I'm gonna go to somebody else and be like, yeah, what's up? You know, like, we.

• 33:43Jen Cohen?

  A hundred percent. So, okay, so then when this guy hired you or a voice coach.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 33:50Jen Cohen?

  To be for his voice to be less boring. What makes a voice boring versus a voice much more exciting?

• 33:59Speaker 02

  So this for that specific buzzfeed, I'll give that as an example. Kane came to me and he's kind of quiet and a little bit monotone. And he said, hey, Amy, so I do this. And I'm like, what? Like, you're so monotone. You're just right here. You're you don't nothing varies. You're just, you know, hey, how you doing? It's like, okay, we gotta, we gotta take a step back. What are you trying to get from me? Do you want me to be excited by you? Get me excited. What does that look like? And I will take it further back of like, how did you speak as a kid? How did you? Want people to see you. Did you like to be in the front? Did you want to be center of attention or no? Do you want that now or no?

• 34:40Speaker 02

  You know, it goes back and back and back, but for him, I was like, let's get some intonation in there. So move your voice up. Bring it up, bring your volume up at different times. Punch different things that you want to come and don't. Use your body. So you can see I use my body when I'm talking. I'm not just here, but I keep it bringing out and that brings people in. So it's not all the, I'm not flailing around, but I want you to use your full body. I want you to use your eye contact. I want you to use your soul. When you're talking to somebody, there's no one else in the room. And if you're talking to a group of people, I want them to feel like there's no one else in the room. You don't have to lock eyes with them, but you have to feel that like I am talking to you. I'm giving you my all and after I talk, I am like zonked.

• 35:23Speaker 02

  Right. Cause I've given so much energy, I need to recharge.

• 35:27Jen Cohen?

  So with this guy or for anybody whose voice is more monotone.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 35:31Jen Cohen?

  More boring.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:33Jen Cohen?

  How do you train somebody to actually really envelop that and really do it? Like it's one thing to do it once after you or twice. But how can you really, if someone is the way they are, and that's their, like their voice most of the time. Can you actually change someone's voice like forever?

• 35:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wouldn't have a career if I couldn't do that. I wouldn't be here, Jen. Yes, of course. I, practice makes permanent. Not perfect, but it makes permanent. The more you do something. So if somebody is very monotone and they sort of talk like this and everything's there. I'd say punch it up. Let's go one, two, three, four, five, four, three, two, one, two, three, four, five, four, three, two, one. So your voice is going up in pitch and going down and I'll say like, give me a sentence. What'd you have for breakfast today? Oh, I had peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Give me that in one, two, three, four, five, four, three, two, one. I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich today. I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich today. I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich today. So you can feel your voice doing.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  And again, you take it with a grain of salt. You can't always talk like this all the time because then you start feeling like you're on a roller coaster and that gets a little crazy. But you start. Getting the movement in your voice. It starts going down and then it's up and then it's down. So you're used to that. And then I'll say, okay, let's take it away. Now let's punch what's important. I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich today. And when I say jelly, I'm like, it was the best jelly of my life. It was so good. The things that are important, those words that you really want people to listen to. Cause when people are listening, I mean, like, I don't know how many people are gonna be like, she had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich today. Like, that's the thing you wanna say, but you're not listening to the words.

• 37:16Jen Cohen?

  Right, right, right.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  You're listening to everything else. The intonation, the fact that I went, you're listening. And I put that in a whisper. That sound, you're like, ooh, bring me more, bring me in. When I get quiet, and sometimes like if I'm telling somebody something, you get quiet. And that doesn't just like, ah, you're more like, yes. Like you lean into it. So especially like I coach a lot of TED talkers.

• 37:42Jen Cohen?

  That was my next question.

• 37:44Speaker 02

  Oh, we're, we're soulmates. Yeah. So I coach a lot of TED talkers and a lot of people have such great things that they're saying. They've written it out, their speech, their speeches are fantastic, or their speech writers are fantastic. Either way, but sometimes they can't deliver it. Or they're just reading it off. And you're like, first of all, never read off. I'd rather somebody ad lib everything, get half the stuff wrong than read off a piece of paper. Cause when you're reading off a piece of paper, you're not gonna have the big things that go up. It's just gonna be.

• 38:16Jen Cohen?

  Cause it's not the words, right? It's how you say it. It's with everything in life though, right? It's like, people don't get offended by what you're saying. It's how you say it. You can ask someone, and trust me, I have in my life.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:27Jen Cohen?

  I, you can, I can ask someone anything, but if I say it in a, in a way that's like, you know, non-confrontational. Inquisitive versus judgy.

• 38:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:37Jen Cohen?

  I can get away with anything.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  Do you curse on this show?

• 38:40Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  Okay, so if I'm telling somebody like, fuck you, you're so good, you know? Like, no one's gonna be like,

• 38:46Jen Cohen?

  Right, right, right.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  She said fuck you to me. But if I'm like, fuck you, you know, and like do it in that way, then you're like, oh. You know, but like, the way we say it and our tone changes everything.

• 38:57Jen Cohen?

  It's all about the tone. Like, I was gonna ask you about TED Talks, right? Because I wonder if there is something, I mean, yes, I know it's the algorithm, I got it.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 39:07Jen Cohen?

  And, but what else makes it that would make somebody, somebody's TED Talk go viral versus go flat? Is it, I thought, what I've kind of thought was the way the person sounds, not necessarily what, I think that the title of what it is.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 39:26Jen Cohen?

  The way someone sounds and also how close the camera is to the person's face. That's what I've noticed.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:31Jen Cohen?

  But how would you train someone to be the most engaging when they're talking? Like, how do you teach someone to be animated and alive when that's not, again, their natural personality? Is it just practice? You give them the tools and then they go off and just practice? That's the first part. The second part is, what are, what is the step-by-step way to really own a room, to really kind of take control and crush a presentation like that?

• 40:02Speaker 02

  So, a couple of different things. I swing a pendulum because I will coach somebody who is pretty boring and I'm gonna make them a wackadoo. They're gonna be all over the top and everything's gonna be so crazy. And I know that they're gonna walk out and be like, that crazy lady told me to do too much shit. And that pendulum's gonna swing back right in the middle, right where they need to be. So I go way far on one side. And I tell them that too. I'm like, listen, we're going psycho here and I want you to be free. Because also if somebody is, a lot of times people are a little bit flatter because they're a little embarrassed to go big.

• 40:36Jen Cohen?

  Shy.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  They're shy, they're embarrassed, they're just kind of like reserved.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  And there's nothing wrong with that.

• 40:43Jen Cohen?

  No, I know.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's all, but if you're reserved, you're like, I don't want to do that. It feels weird.

• 40:49Jen Cohen?

  Feels weird.

• 40:50Speaker 02

  It feels weird to go big. And I'm like, feel weird. Feel weird. Don't feel shame. Don't feel embarrassed. Cause if you're embarrassed, I promise you, your TED Talk's not going to do well. If you're like, I don't sort of like, don't want to be here. That comes across. And people are like, well, if you don't want to be here, I don't want to be watching you. But if someone's like, oh my God, I want to be here so badly. I'm so stoked to be here. And you can see that. You're like, yeah, I want to be here with you. I don't care what you're talking about. You're talking about a toenail fungus? Sign me up.

• 41:23Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 41:23Speaker 02

  Like, it's so exciting because you're excited. Like, show me that excitement. And then take me on a journey. Show me that excitement. Show me big. So that's why when people are reserved, I'm like, go crazy. I have them jump around. I have them move about. I have them flail their arms up and really go wild. So then they don't feel that shame as much. Like, get weird. Get completely weird. Be embarrassed. Get it out. And then you can find places where you're like, yes, here I am talking about toenail fungus on my TED Talk. And then I'm going to bring it back because I'm telling you a story. And if every story's at a 10 the whole time, it feels like you're yelling at me. But I have to have you bring it back. And there's got to be parts where you bring it in.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  And like I said before, when I'm quiet, you lean in. So then I go big and I go big where it matters. And then I pull you in. And I'm like, now you come into me. Cause I'm going to bring it here. And then we're going to be someplace else in the middle. So give me a range of emotion. Give me a range of things to be excited about. When I see a movie and it's one character and he's the same exact throughout.

• 42:28Jen Cohen?

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  You're like, you're so boring. But a good movie and a good character, you see an arc. You see them start somewhere else and end somewhere else.

• 42:43Jen Cohen?

  I want to take a quick break from this episode to thank our sponsor Therasage. Their Trillight panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go. And I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations in places in my body where honestly, I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach cramps, shoulder, ankle. Red light therapy is my go-to. Plus, it also has amazing anti-aging benefits, including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for.

• 43:25Jen Cohen?

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• 44:06Jen Cohen?

  Far is biggest thing was have animation in your voice, of course. And when you want to have more authority, you talk down. When you want to sound more, well, likable or flighty or kind of, what's the word?

• 44:21Speaker 02

  Easy to like.

• 44:22Jen Cohen?

  Easy.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  It's easy.

• 44:24Jen Cohen?

  You, you, you kind of go up. Don't, you end with kind of like a comment, not with a question mark.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Right. Voice downtalk versus uptalk? So that's, that's, that's more the, that confidence.

• 44:38Jen Cohen?

  The, yes, of a voice.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:39Jen Cohen?

  What other? Other ways and tips, can you teach people how to tweak their voice to sound something? Give me an example.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  So I'm a fast talker. I know that. I'm also hyper articulate. So I can speak really quickly, but you know exactly what I'm saying and every single sound comes out.

• 44:59Jen Cohen?

  Yes.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  So I'm not mumbling anything unless I'm doing it on purpose. Like when I said mumbling anything, like that was on purpose.

• 45:07Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  That you heard it. So changing the speed at which I'm speaking is so important. It also gives me a chance to pause. And everybody talks about the pause. I love a pause. Even me just saying, I love a pause. That moment of silence, you listened. You're like, what is she gonna say?

• 45:33Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 45:33Speaker 02

  So speed is huge in how you're delivering something. Am I going faster? Am I stopping? And am I stopping? Even just to think about the next thing I'm saying. So I'll give people tricks like that. Like, take your time. Don't give everything at once. Stop. And then think, what am I gonna say? How am I gonna say it? What am I going to do with my speed? And that's to switch it up. So it's not, we're all the same speed, we're all the same tone, we're all this. Our ears will get used to everything. That's why whenever, like, I'm sure your mom is like, my mom is like every other mom in the world that yelled at me all the time, "Clean your room, la la la la la."

• 46:17Speaker 02

  And then you just tuned it out because it was all at the same pitch. It was all loud, it was all yelly, it was all that. And you're like, boop, like, it's not there anymore. But she was like, Amy, you better clean your room. You're like, okay, mom. You know, it scares you a different way because then all of a sudden you're like, I have to listen. You're engaging me differently.

• 46:39Jen Cohen?

  That's so true. So then what do moms, like, what I want my kid to check, to clean his room or listen to me? Because God knows, I repeat myself. I get so frustrated. I get so annoyed. I'm sure you do too. You've got kids.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  Totally, totally.

• 46:51Jen Cohen?

  So to be cognizant of not being, not to say, not just to be, I yell, like just not to yell the same thing I yelled the day before, two minutes ago. So when you take it in quiet, when you're more quiet or more close up, is it both?

• 47:07Speaker 02

  So

• 47:08Jen Cohen?

  And a pause?

• 47:08Speaker 02

  It's both and a pause. I mean, there's so much there. The number one thing to get somebody to hear you is to make sure they're listening. If I'm just yelling upstairs and they're doing something else, why are they going to listen? But if I go to my kid and I'm like, I have a kid named Mo, I'm like, Mo, you need to clean your room now. He's like, okay, Ma. You know, like, make sure they're listening. That goes with every TED Talk you're doing too. If you're talking to somebody and they're like, ah, ba, ba. But if you stop and you pause and you're like, it's going to get awkward. And then all of a sudden, people are going to listen. And you're like, now we can go. Thank you. And you keep going. You have to be careful what energy you're

• 47:49Speaker 02

  giving across because sometimes it's like, you know, like when that happens. So it depends on what you're trying. But if you stop and you're like, thanks so much. Now, and you can like do it in a charming way, that's just a little bit more approachable for people to be like, got it.

• 48:03Jen Cohen?

  You know, it's interesting right now, like just during this interview, I can see all the different ranges in your voice. Like you are a pro. You go quiet, you go loud, you go animated, you do like, it's like, it's amazing how you really have made your voice, like your instrument too, and how to teach. Because when you're working with massive personalities, they need to, A, trust you and listen to you and think that you know what you're talking about, right? So did you train yourself also to be that way?

• 48:35Speaker 02

  Yes, I became more cognizant of it because I always was animated. I was a performer. So I always had all that there. But then, once I started working with other people and noticing it in them, you know, when you teach, you learn. And once I started teaching people, I was like, oh, I can do that too. And then I just became way more cognizant, just noticing on everybody else.

• 48:58Jen Cohen?

  Yeah. What other kind of, besides like artists, like pop stars and big, you know, music people, performers? Have you ever been hired by everyday other people to help them with a particular issue to help them optimize their voice?

• 49:14Speaker 02

  Yes, so I have a big part of my business is like CEOs, managers, people who come to me and they say, I need to communicate better with my employees, with whoever, if I'm giving a meeting, I need those people to listen to me, things like that. So I had, I had one recently and sometimes I have to figure out what they're asking for help. And they'll say like, I need help with my voice, with my tone. And I'm like, okay, let's, let's dig deeper into that. And they, they don't have the language

• 49:50Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  to necessarily say what it is. And so it was this guy, he was a CEO and he got a lot of heat from his HR about his tone. And I was like, what, like nasal? Are you like too annoying? Like, what, what do you mean? And he was like, well, I read all these books. He read the, the negotiator book on like

• 50:09Jen Cohen?

  Chris Voss.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  That's the one, you know?

• 50:12Jen Cohen?

  I have, he was on the show.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  Sure. Like all the people that were on the show, like all the things that have, here's your tips and tricks for the best this and, and how to be the master negotiator and confident voice and work well with this. But sometimes it comes across a little robotic. If you're like, I am just reading the book and I'm doing every single thing that they're saying, but I'm not actually communicating with a human, that they're just doing that. And once he started telling me, this is what I'm doing, and this is how I talk to people, and this is what is it? And I went, is this how you talk to them too? Like that? And he was like, yeah, of course. And they listen and da, da, da, da. I'm like, okay, let's, let's stop for a second. What's your goal? What's your objective with the people? Well, I want them to like me. Great. Great place to start. So when we're talking about tone,

• 50:58Speaker 02

  it's like you're yelling at me like a dad. Like, like you're just telling me what to do. You're my coach. And like, some people don't need that. They need more of a mentor. So if I were to change that objective and say like, I want you to mentor me a little bit, how would you now talk to me about that? And so then he backed off a little bit. He was like, okay, well, let's See how I can help you. I'm like, there. Do you see how you did that? How you just took it back from that like aggressive forward telling you what to do, but like now, how can I help you? Like, we bring it in in a different way. So for him, I was like, the tone is not necessarily the problem. It's your objective and what it is. And once you have that clear objective of how you want them to perceive you, then it goes a different route and you have a different voice to them.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  So you have to think about it in a different way. Take that a few steps back, right?

• 51:47Jen Cohen?

  Right. So you basically, I like how you did that because you want, a lot of people are very robotic. They read a ton of these books.

• 51:55Speaker 02

  Totally. And the books are wonderful, by the way.

• 51:57Jen Cohen?

  But it doesn't, you're not embodying what it is. It's words and it's very academic, right? It's very, it's very sterile.

• 52:06Speaker 02

  It's very sterile. And if we all read those books and we all do the things, we're all gonna be a bunch of robots in this society who like shake hands a certain way and down talk the certain way and work our bodies out. We're all gonna be the same. Like, we have to have us, our humanity, and the way we communicate with people as well. That has to be a part of it.

• 52:28Jen Cohen?

  Well, I think the way like you make, especially in a leadership role, right? Tweaking it from being talking down to somebody like at, or sorry, at somebody.

• 52:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:38Jen Cohen?

  Versus as a mentor. That's a really good way of putting it. Like, like, so to sound more mentor-like and not such, like such a robot, or would you say, what would be, what would that be called that you're teaching them to do? What were those action items? Like, you're telling them to change their tone, their voice by sounding more mentor-like. What's that step? What is that step?

• 53:03Speaker 02

  It's taking a step back and getting first the objective. You have to think, you have to, everything has to zoom out a little bit.

• 53:10Jen Cohen?

  Okay.

• 53:11Speaker 02

  How do you want someone to perceive you? How do you want them to look at you? Respect, but also like

• 53:17Jen Cohen?

  That you care.

• 53:18Speaker 02

  That you care.

• 53:19Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  Care is huge. And when you're caring for somebody, it's not like, okay, great, get this in by Monday, right?

• 53:26Jen Cohen?

  No, a hundred percent.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  Hi, how are you? Take a moment, even.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  I'm I'm like you, I am busy. Sometimes I do not have time to ask somebody how they are.

• 53:37Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, it's a whole thing, actually, in business. A lot of people, especially now, you need to kind of like foreplay it for like five minutes.

• 53:44Speaker 02

  Thousand percent.

• 53:45Jen Cohen?

  You know, how was your weekend? What did you do? And you're like, I just have to get to the point here.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 53:49Jen Cohen?

  So, but you can't circumvent that. How do you can't get away with that, but not you still. So that's not really a tone. It is a tone, but it's an additional five minutes that you have to add to the conversation.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  So I would take the tone of that of like, how are you? How was your weekend? And I would add that tone to like the thing we need to get done. And sometimes you don't need the five minutes. It's a long foreplay. Get straight to the main.

• 54:16Jen Cohen?

  Go into it, yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's go to the main meal.

• 54:17Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 54:17Speaker 02

  But I would say, hi, thanks so much for doing this. Can I have you do that, please? Thank you again. Where there's a warmth of the

• 54:25Jen Cohen?

  A warmth. How that I guess that's it, right? Like, I I guess what I'm confused, not confused, the wrong word, but can you teach somebody how to be warm when they're not naturally like that? Won't it come across fake?

• 54:41Speaker 02

  If it is fake, but you have to also find that authentic warmthness. So you are a businesswoman like me. You get straight to it. What is something that you would tell me? Like if you're telling me a task to do for next week, imagine I'm your assistant. Give me something.

• 55:00Jen Cohen?

  Oh, well, give you a task.

• 55:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, give me a task.

• 55:02Jen Cohen?

  Email Bob.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  Great. Now imagine that like I was hurt or sick or something happened to me.

• 55:10Jen Cohen?

  But that's EQ.

• 55:11Speaker 02

  Sure, but but wait, but wait. So so imagine something hurt or happened to me. What would you say to me right there?

• 55:17Jen Cohen?

  How are you? What? How are you feeling?

• 55:19Speaker 02

  Great. That's something you just did right there. Now with that feeling, tell me to email Bob the same way.

• 55:25Jen Cohen?

  Can you email Bob, please?

• 55:27Speaker 02

  That.

• 55:27Jen Cohen?

  Right. But this is what I'm saying. What portion? This is most of it's also like teaching someone EQ, like picking up on nuance.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  So much so.

• 55:36Jen Cohen?

  Understanding how what what make people, how I talked to, like we said earlier, how my tone of voice with you will be very different than my tone of voice with Karen. Because I know Karen is more sensitive and needs this and like I have to handle her differently. You, you, it could be straight down and dirty and you put appreciate it more.

• 55:58Speaker 02

  Love it.

• 55:58Jen Cohen?

  Right?

• 55:59Speaker 02

  Love it. But you have to know your audience.

• 56:02Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, you need to know your.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  With all of it. When you're speaking to a big crowd or even to one person or a small business meeting, know your audience.

• 56:10Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  Or do they want that down and dirty, give me it real fast? Or do they need a little bit of that?

• 56:15Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  And sometimes you could use a little bit of that in everywhere. Just a little charm.

• 56:19Jen Cohen?

  Have you ever done like a, like a real talk where you teach people how to talk?

• 56:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally.

• 56:26Jen Cohen?

  Have you ever done a talk? Yeah.

• 56:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I um, I worked with a big office of women. So Dani Garcia.

• 56:33Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, I know her. Yeah.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  So I went to her.

• 56:36Jen Cohen?

  Just so people don't know. So Dani Garcia is The Rock's ex-wife, but business partner. And she runs Seven Bucks Productions.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  Right. So she has an awesome business of women. It's all women and she had me.

• 56:50Jen Cohen?

  Bodybuilder too.

• 56:51Speaker 02

  Bodybuilder. She's, she's a powerhouse.

• 56:54Jen Cohen?

  She's a badass. Yeah.

• 56:56Speaker 02

  Awesome human. But she had me come into her office and speak with all of her women in a big talk situation. And say like, how can we each sound as capable as we are because we work in a world of men? We are in like a very big man's world and how can we hold our own? So I did that. I went and I sat and I said, all right, ladies, let's do this. How are we speaking? How do you want to be come across? How do you want other people to look at you? You're sitting with a bunch of men, so you don't have the same hi that you're talking to your friends. You know, if you're with some other guy, you change it a little bit. And don't be afraid that it's fake. It is fake. We're all a little fake. We're all putting it on.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  The only time I'm a hundred percent real is when I'm like laying in bed and I'm talking to my husband. I'm like, honey, I'm so tired or whatever it is. Like that's the one time where I'm just like, I'm not putting anything on, but it's okay to be fake. Like that's something that has such a bad connotation and I don't think it should.

• 57:55Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 57:56Speaker 02

  I really don't.

• 57:56Jen Cohen?

  You know, I think that you're right. There is such a bad connotation. Like we're all putting it on. We all like, you know, Chris Rock says like, we go out, our sales reps, our representatives are the ones who are out there all, you know, when you. Want to have a date, when you want to like impress a girl, a boy, get a job. Your, your, your sales rep is, is doing the job. That's part of life. Like you're not, you know, if you want to like achieve and like do things and, and work nicely with other people, there's going to be an element of an elevated you.

• 58:29Speaker 02

  And that's the EQ of it all too.

• 58:30Jen Cohen?

  Exactly.

• 58:31Speaker 02

  It's okay to be fake. We have to just accept that. And it's not like we're fake in a bad way. There's nothing malicious about it.

• 58:40Jen Cohen?

  No, it's like, you know, I go somewhere, I'm like, I'm like, okay, fuck, I gotta go in there. I gotta pull myself together. Like if you're in a bad mood, okay, and I'm going to a meeting or whatever, I gotta just pull myself together. And like, put it on for 20 minutes.

• 58:53Speaker 02

  Totally. And then you will follow suit. Again, the fake it till you make it.

• 58:58Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 58:58Speaker 02

  You'll follow suit. You'll get into a better mood if you're smiling and you're having a good time with people and like, oh yeah, I am pissed. It's too much energy to be pissed.

• 59:06Jen Cohen?

  True. There's like a bunch of people who say like, if you just smile, you can smile your way to being happy, even when you're not happy.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Yes, because you just release endorphins by acting a certain way.

• 59:15Jen Cohen?

  Totally.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  And so that's the same way of all of this. Like, we're going to be the person we want to be. See that. What is your objective? What do you want that to sound like?

• 59:26Jen Cohen?

  I like what you said also with the capable. Let's go back to that because you already told us a little bit about how to sound like we are in control, that we're knowledgeable earlier. But when you went into Danny's office with the women to kind of help them first like kind of give off that they are capable, smart women. What did you do? You were sitting there for an hour, let's say. How long was your meeting?

• 59:47Speaker 02

  So I did a few different things. Number one, I did a big talk with everybody. And then I went individually, one by one.

• 59:54Jen Cohen?

  Okay.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  Because I think sometimes with some of this stuff, like you can give the big generals.

• 59:59Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 59:59Speaker 02

  But each person is different, you know? That's why I've had such a hard time writing a book. Because I'm like, it's every person, every human.

• 1:00:07Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, it's true.

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  It's so individual.

• 1:00:09Jen Cohen?

  It is, right? Because every personality is so different, right? So how you work with one person is going to be different. So pull out a couple of examples of some people that were certain ways that you. Help them tweak that maybe people who are listening can relate to.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  Right. So I would have everybody, when I was talking to everybody, I would pretend like I was talking individually. And I said, write down three things you're fantastic at in your job. Like, I want you to think about it. And this is where that self-esteem comes into it. Like, this is, I want you to brag. I want you to be like, I am fucking awesome at communications, or whatever it is. And so I had them all write it down.

• 1:00:45Jen Cohen?

  Okay.

• 1:00:45Speaker 02

  And then I went around and I said, I want you to tell me what it is that you're doing so well. And when you do it, I want you to convince everybody that you're that great. Like, believe it before you say it. And it has to come from here, or it's not going to feel authentic. If you're like, I'm the best bread baker in the world. You're like, are you? You know, like, but if you believe it, like, you haven't tried my bread. I am the best breadmaker in the world. You know, whatever it is, you have to believe that. So I would start with that. Start with your positives. Start with the things that are easy to prove to somebody else. I am amazing. Then from there, say it.

• 1:01:27Speaker 02

  Believe it. Go big. Go animated. What word is the most important in that? I am the best breadmaker in the world. And then I'm like, punch that. Punch the word best. Punch the word that is the one that you want them to really focus on. Like, and it's going to be different words throughout. So I would have them all go around and do different things where they punched a word. And then they would pause before the word, or the phrase, or the couple of words that they wanted people to really listen to. So I am the best breadmaker in the world. So then they were like, whoa, whoa. Just to have that pause, have that moment to listen to it and really absorb what they're saying.

• 1:02:09Jen Cohen?

  I love that. Is there another example or that's the? And we can like, we can wrap it. Cause I know you've got it. Your car is waiting for you. One twenty seven.

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  Oh, yes. They're always early.

• 1:02:20Jen Cohen?

  I know. Well, just.

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  No, no, no. I'm saying they're always early.

• 1:02:24Jen Cohen?

  Okay, okay.

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, give me a second. Okay, how?

• 1:02:29Jen Cohen?

  This is a pause, everybody.

• 1:02:30Speaker 02

  This is a pause. We can, we can edit this out.

• 1:02:34Jen Cohen?

  Or no, you said pauses are great.

• 1:02:35Speaker 02

  Pause, pauses are so great.

• 1:02:37Jen Cohen?

  I know.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  I'm getting like schwitzy with the light.

• 1:02:39Jen Cohen?

  I know. And she's also been on for an hour. See, you get, you're going, she's been fake for about an hour. So it's like a long time.

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  I'm gonna come out of here like, alright guys, let's get out of here.

• 1:02:48Jen Cohen?

  You don't even, listen, if you don't have an example, that's fine. You gave us a lot.

• 1:02:52Speaker 02

  No, I, I want to think of something else.

• 1:02:55Jen Cohen?

  I like to write down the three things that you're really good at. That's a great, a great part of it. Punch the word that you want people to remember. Good. I, I think there's a lot of good action items.

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  Pull in things that you want.

• 1:03:08Jen Cohen?

  Is there another one?

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm sure there is.

• 1:03:12Jen Cohen?

  Do you want some magic mind here? Why don't you like shake this up? By the way, we didn't even do this. We normally do this in the beginning of the podcast.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:19Jen Cohen?

  So these help you with your focus and they're a healthy shot. They have ashwagandha and all these amazing things.

• 1:03:23Speaker 02

  I should have done this an hour ago.

• 1:03:24Jen Cohen?

  You should have. You would have been really on.

• 1:03:26Speaker 02

  I would have really on. God, I would have broken your mic.

• 1:03:29Jen Cohen?

  You would have been basically through the roof, but maybe this will help you get that example. You don't drink, I, I can imagine not. I can imagine you don't drink. You got, you gotta do it in one shot.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  Oh, lechaim.

• 1:03:39Jen Cohen?

  Lechaim. By the way, I've had like four of these. I shouldn't even have anymore. Is it good? Yeah.

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's really good.

• 1:03:46Jen Cohen?

  People love it. I think all my guests love it. Do you, can you think of one more sample now?

• 1:03:50Speaker 02

  It worked, yeah.

• 1:03:54Speaker 02

  Reframe a question. Like, tell me a question again of like, what is, just a...

• 1:04:00Jen Cohen?

  Like a, another question?

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. Just like a, like reframe it in a way that I can just...

• 1:04:04Jen Cohen?

  Okay, so just, I think someone who feels, this is actually a question I do have and then this could be our...

• 1:04:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, like I work really well from a problem. So if you tell me the...

• 1:04:13Jen Cohen?

  Okay, like, I think a lot of people can actually be like, I, I, I'll use myself.

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:04:18Jen Cohen?

  You know, I'm an, I think I'm, I'm like an outgoing person sometimes. I'm an outgoing person. I'm extroverted and I'm not shy. Like I'll ask anybody anything all the time. But put me on a stage, I get really scared. Like, I guess I, I can perform on stage.

• 1:04:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:34Jen Cohen?

  But it's like, I'm like, I am not somebody who naturally feels super comfortable talking to like a huge group of people. I find like, so people like, and there are people out there who are the opposite, right? Usually opposite, like they're usually very shy, but they go on stage and they shine, right? Is there anything that, and it's not because of a confidence, not because, I can write down the three things that I'm confident about. And I can know all these things that you said, right? Like animation, changing the intonation of my voice, all those things and still go up there. Is there anything else that I can take along with me for my voice? To really kind of, kind of show my authoritativeness, my confidence, my be funny.

• 1:05:19Jen Cohen?

  I mean, to make myself a really good performer. I'm just trying to give you something.

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:05:24Jen Cohen?

  Cause it has, it has nothing to do with lack of self-esteem or lack of confidence. It's just like, it's like a jittery thing.

• 1:05:32Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:05:32Jen Cohen?

  And even if I have all those tools, I, I can still go up there and get nervous and scared. And then not do all the things that I was told to do or practice to do.

• 1:05:42Speaker 02

  So it's so important before you go on, whether you're singing or speaking or doing any kind of talking in front of somebody, to center yourself, to breathe and make sure your exhale is longer than your inhale. And I would do that. Have you heard of square breathing?

• 1:05:57Jen Cohen?

  Yep.

• 1:05:58Speaker 02

  So I would do one, two, three, four, hold, two, three, four, out, two, three, four, hold, two, three, four. So you keep doing that. So you really center yourself. And once you feel I am centered, you know that everybody out there wants you to succeed. They want to hear you. You want to talk to them. You're not talking at them. You're talking to them. So in your mind, think of the person you're speaking to, not a group of people, not a thousand people, not 20 people, but who is it? And you're having a conversation with them. A lot of people are good one-on-one, but when it gets to be more people, they're like, I don't

• 1:06:40Speaker 02

  know how to do it. It's because you're not picturing a human and a soul and a connection. You're picturing a wall of people. But if you can connect with one, and again, doesn't have to be looking at one, but you can say, I'm just connecting with you. I'm giving me and I want to, I want to give you too. I just want to connect. Think of that.

• 1:07:00Jen Cohen?

  And the square breathing.

• 1:07:01Speaker 02

  And the square breathing to really start it off, to take those nerves down. And don't jump into it. Take your time. This is the thing that everybody's like, I gotta go fast because I'm on here. And it's like really nervous to be like, mm.

• 1:07:13Jen Cohen?

  That's exactly it. Taking your time. That is what it is. You get so, we gotta go, we gotta go fast. Like, no. Hi, everybody.

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  That's where the breathing comes in. Hi, I'm Amy. Thanks so much for being here.

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  Today I'm going to be talking about voice. And so if I just took that one moment to connect, that connection is huge. They're going to feel it. You're going to feel it. You're going to feel like you're talking to a person, not just a bunch of people.

• 1:07:42Jen Cohen?

  I like that. Thank you, Amy.

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:07:47Jen Cohen?

  Now you can go to New York.

• 1:07:49Speaker 02

  Get my place.

• 1:07:50Jen Cohen?

  Exactly. I appreciate this. This was very, very fun and informative. And like I said, I've never done a podcast on voice before. So this is really interesting. And I hope, I hope somebody, or more than just one person, but take something they, they can, they can integrate it into their lives. Because I think you gave us a lot of great little action items.

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  Amazing. I'm so happy to. I feel like I had a thousand things I wanted to talk about.

• 1:08:14Jen Cohen?

  And then you got.

• 1:08:15Speaker 02

  And then I just got sidetracked of something else.

• 1:08:17Jen Cohen?

  Well, yes, why? The good news is you can always come back.

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  Ah, I can't wait.

• 1:08:20Jen Cohen?

  I mean, with that hair. I mean, by the way, you want, you want to say something about your hair, about imaging.

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  Oh, you know, you were asking about like routines.

• 1:08:29Jen Cohen?

  I know. I didn't ask you.

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  That's okay. I'll still talk about it because I can't shut up. I, I find it really important every day to look good. And I know, like, people are like, yeah, but that's so shallow. I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not doing it for other people.

• 1:08:47Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 1:08:47Speaker 02

  I do it for me. Because if I know I look good, I know my hair is done, I know my makeup is done, I like my outfit, I like how I'm presenting.

• 1:08:53Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:55Speaker 02

  Then I feel confident and my self-esteem is higher.

• 1:08:57Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:58Speaker 02

  And I feel better about myself.

• 1:09:00Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  And when I feel better about myself, I can talk, I can have the best time. But if I go out and I'm like, my hair looks like shit. I'm tired. I didn't put on a lip today. And I like, my outfit is, what am I wearing?

• 1:09:11Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna feel confident. I'm, you're gonna look at me and be like.

• 1:09:15Jen Cohen?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:09:16Speaker 02

  She's not confident.

• 1:09:17Jen Cohen?

  Because you don't.

• 1:09:17Speaker 02

  Because I don't feel confident.

• 1:09:19Jen Cohen?

  A hundred percent. I mean, I live in gym clothes, so I'm like the worst person to say that to.

• 1:09:23Speaker 02

  But if you feel confident in that and you like it.

• 1:09:25Jen Cohen?

  I do. Because you know why I feel confident in that? Because like, I'm usually wearing my gym clothes because I came from the gym.

• 1:09:30Speaker 02

  And you got a bang in bod and you're happy to show that off, too.

• 1:09:33Jen Cohen?

  Or, I was just gonna, and also, I rather, I think to myself, at least I did something.

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:39Jen Cohen?

  That was for myself, that like, bettered myself, that made my brain more focused. And like, I sweat, when you sweat, I feel better.

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:46Jen Cohen?

  I rather look like shit because I really feel like, I feel better knowing that I look like shit because I did something for myself beforehand.

• 1:09:53Speaker 02

  So your working out is my.

• 1:09:55Jen Cohen?

  Getting, getting ready.

• 1:09:56Speaker 02

  Getting ready.

• 1:09:57Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:57Speaker 02

  And it's also like a meditative moment when I'm sitting and putting on makeup or doing my hair. It's a moment that I'm, I'm not on my phone.

• 1:10:04Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:04Speaker 02

  I'm not doing a thousand things.

• 1:10:05Jen Cohen?

  You gotta concentrate.

• 1:10:06Speaker 02

  Concentrating. And I'm doing one thing. Never in my life do I do one thing at a time.

• 1:10:10Jen Cohen?

  I know.

• 1:10:11Speaker 02

  So it's my moment that I'm like, this is for me. I'm taking these 20 minutes and I'm gonna put on my mascara.

• 1:10:17Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  For a painfully long time. And I'm just gonna do it. And it's meditative.

• 1:10:22Jen Cohen?

  It is. It is.

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  Meditative mascara.

• 1:10:24Jen Cohen?

  Meditation, mascara is yours.

• 1:10:26Speaker 02

  Everybody's got their own.

• 1:10:27Jen Cohen?

  Everybody has their own. God, thank you, Amy, for being on here.

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:10:31Jen Cohen?

  Guys, check out Amy, your, what's your Instagram?

• 1:10:33Speaker 02

  It's Amy Chapman. It's my Instagram, website, Voice Lab L.A.

• 1:10:37Jen Cohen?

  If you have a, if you want a voice lesson, don't call her, she's too busy for you. But, but anyway.

• 1:10:43Speaker 02

  Talk somewhere, call me.

• 1:10:44Jen Cohen?

  Exactly. Thank you.

• 1:10:46Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:10:46Jen Cohen?

  Bye.

• 1:10:47Speaker 02

  Bye.

• 1:10:47Jen Cohen?

  Bye.