Episode 584: Matthew Hussey: Relationship Psychology: Why Strong Chemistry Can Keep You Stuck

What if the person you cannot get over was never actually your person? We tend to give enormous weight to chemistry and connection, especially when we find someone we like who seems to like us back. That feeling can be powerful enough to make us overlook a harder truth: connection alone does not create a relationship. Without commitment and compatibility, chemistry can keep you emotionally invested in someone who is never actually choosing you. Matthew Hussey breaks down the four levels of a relationship, from attraction to compatibility, and explains why so many people get stuck at the stage that feels the most exciting. He also explores why unfinished relationships can become so difficult to let go of. The future you imagined can start to feel more real than the relationship itself, keeping you attached to potential instead of what is actually happening. Matthew Hussey is a relationship coach, bestselling author, speaker, and host of the Love Life podcast. His work focuses on dating, heartbreak, confidence, communication, and helping people build healthier relationships by paying attention to how someone actually shows up, rather than relying on chemistry or potential alone. What's Discussed: (00:00) Why connection and chemistry can feel incredibly important without actually creating a relationship. (01:27) The four levels of a relationship: admiration, mutual attraction, commitment, and compatibility. (03:46) Why someone choosing not to be with you cannot be "your person." (05:07) How heartbreak can come from grieving the future you imagined rather than losing an actual soulmate. (07:58) Why unfinished relationships and "what could have been" can occupy so much mental space. (09:20) How romantic fantasy can become a form of avoidance that keeps you from participating in your real life. (12:37) Why real relationships are built through commitment, difficulty, and repeatedly choosing one another. (13:47) How to intentionally move on by removing reminders, limiting updates, and stopping the person from remaining part of your everyday life. Thank You to Our Sponsors! Magic Mind: Head over to magicmind.com/jen http://www.magicmind.com/jen and use code JEN at checkout. Momentous: Ready to try supplements that actually do what they claim? Head to livemomentous.com http://livemomentous.com and use code JEN for 35% off your first subscription. Therasage: Visit therasage.com http://therasage.com and use code JEN to get 15% off your order. Your skin Prolon: Prolon is offering listeners 30% off sitewide plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their 5-Day Program! Just visit prolonlife.com/JENNIFERCOHEN https://prolonlife.com/JENNIFERCOHEN and use code JENNIFERCOHEN to claim your discount and your bonus gift. Kion: Visit getkion.com/habits http://getkion.com/habits for 20% off. Tru Niagen®: For supplements that are rigorously tested, third-party verified, and actually deliver what's on the label, head to truniagen.com http://truniagen.com Find more from Jen Cohen: Website: jennifercohen.com https://jennifercohen.com Instagram: @therealjencohen http://instagram.com/therealjencohen Books: jennifercohen.com/books https://jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements https://jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements Find more from Matthew Hussey Website: matthewhussey.com http://matthewhussey.com Instagram: @thematthewhussey https://www.instagram.com/thematthewhussey/ Books: Books by Matthew Hussey https://www.goodreads.com/author/list/1752213. Matthew_Hussey Facebook: Matthew Hussey https://www.facebook.com/CoachMatthewHussey/ YouTube: @thematthewhussey https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9HGzFGt7BLmWDqooUbWGBg LinkedIn: Matthew Hussey https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-hussey-b1139914/

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Welcome to Habits and Hustle, where I sit down with the world's biggest thinkers, entrepreneurs and experts to uncover the habits, strategies and mindset shifts that actually move the needle in your health, happiness and success. And today I'm sitting down with Matthew Hussey, a relationship coach, bestselling author, speaker and host of the Love Life Podcast. He has spent nearly two decades helping people navigate dating, heartbreak, commitment and what it actually takes to build a healthy relationship. In this episode, we get into why we consistently overvalue connection, how chemistry can feel more important than it actually is, and the four levels of a relationship. We also talk

• 0:48Speaker 01

  about why someone cannot be your person while actively choosing not to be with you, and how we can end up grieving an imagined future more than the relationship itself. I love this episode. Matthew also explains how holding on to what could have been can become a form of avoidance, and why moving on requires deliberate action instead of simply waiting for your feelings to disappear. This conversation will make you rethink chemistry, compatibility, commitment, heartbreak, and the stories you create around relationships that never became what you hoped they would. What Matthew shares in this episode will help you separate connection from compatibility and recognize when you are attached to a

• 1:30Speaker 01

  potential instead of reality. Like I said, this episode has it all, so let's dive in.

• 1:44Speaker 01

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• 3:09Speaker 01

  Like there's certain qualities that people are typically drawn to, right? Charm, right? Like being funny, charming, like all those things. But those are like usually very surface topical things that don't really serve us, right? Like as a girl, right? I'm attracted to guys or who are like that, right? Confident, funny, charismatic. A lot of times those guys don't make the greatest partners, though. They've learned how to be a great sales representatives. That's what happens a lot of times. And now I am speaking for like, because me, like women talk about this all the time. And I bet you, similar to how you probably were, right? When you were saying you were bad, like you probably weren't like an asshole, you know, you were probably very nice.

• 3:54Speaker 00

  Not intentionally, anyway.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Not intentionally. You probably were, like I think even in your paragraph when you first opened the book, you were charismatic, you were nice, you were chivalrous, you know, you did all the nice things to make someone want to like you, even though you knew that you're probably not the greatest partner. I think that's what people get drawn to, right? Is this like superficial level, and it's very hard for people to separate that from something more. And then you also write about the facts, this is a couple, two-prong question, which I love when you said this, that connection isn't what you should be striving for, it's compatibility. Because I think we always say to each other, you know, well, we have such a great connection, or the connection, the connection, like you always hear the

• 4:38Speaker 01

  word connection. It's like the big hashtag in relationships. But like the truth of the matter, just because you do have a connection, and you like, this is the part of the book I like was like reading like, like ferociously, it's really, doesn't matter. It's like, it's about, are you guys compatible? And people, again, mistake those two. Can you talk about why and just expand upon those things? Because I think that a lot of people like that would resonate with on both sides.

• 5:09Speaker 00

  Well firstly, to your point about all those attractive qualities, we have to go a little deeper in terms of what it is we're looking for. It's fine to like someone who's charming, it's fine to like someone who's funny, or sexy, or any of those things, but that can't be all you need.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Right, and we mistake it for lust and love, or lust and like compatibility.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  Well, you can desire someone, but we have to start separating what makes someone desirable from what makes them a great partner. And it has to be as much a criteria for who we invest in that they are a great partner as they are desirable. It can't be, you know, I always say to people, it's fine to want chemistry, but why don't you want kindness as much as you want chemistry? Why is it that chemistry keeps winning over someone who's decent, or someone who's kind, or someone who's thoughtful, or someone who's loyal, or empathetic, or consistent? You have to suspect yourself if you have really, really high standards for chemistry, and really low standards for how someone treats you.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:16Speaker 00

  That's the problem. Fine, want those things, but never at the expense of someone's character, or the way they show up, the way they invest in you. That has to be, the price of entry has to be the deep, the deeper things that you really need. And by the way, how do you make, you know, how do you get the bravery, or the courage, or the resolve to make those things your price of entry? You look at relationships you've had in the past, where you really wanted to hold on to someone, where you thought they were so amazing, where you thought, I can't lose this person. And you remember that whatever it was you were missing in that relationship, made you dreadfully unhappy. It made you miserable, even when

• 7:00Speaker 00

  you were telling yourself, I'll never be able to, I can't lose this person. It actually made it intolerable to stay.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 7:07Speaker 00

  And when you know what that was, maybe you didn't feel seen by that person, maybe you felt like you never got their time, maybe you felt like they, you never really trusted them, or that they were never really in the relationship. You know, whatever it was you were missing, made it hell to be there. We may not have admitted that at the time, because when we're in those relationships, we have to sell ourselves on staying.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Right, we justify behavior.

• 7:30Speaker 00

  And we kid ourselves about how happy we are.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:33Speaker 00

  But when we leave and we look back, you go, oh my God, I was a wreck. I was an anxious, sad wreck in that relationship for so long. And when you realize, when you remember and connect to how painful that was, you don't need self-worth to decide that you'll never again be in a relationship without those core things. You just need to know how much it hurt last time, and how you could never do it again, regardless of how charismatic or sexy someone is. So that's what I want to say about that. In terms of the connection piece, we consistently overvalue connection. It is a, it is such a seductive thing to find

• 8:15Speaker 00

  someone who we like, who likes us back. That is like, it feels like the Holy Grail when you find it. It feels like lightning in a bottle. How often do I like someone, let alone they like me? Oh my God. It feels like the most important thing on earth.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:32Speaker 00

  But when someone, when the person we have this with is telling us they don't want a relationship, or they're not sure about us.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:41Speaker 00

  Then it counts for nothing. It's not important. In the book, I talk about there being four levels of importance in

• 8:48Speaker 01

  I love that part.

• 8:48Speaker 00

  A relationship. And it's it's so important because once people have this model, they never look at their love life the same way again. The first level of importance for any situation in your life, and everyone listening to this can imagine, as you think of someone in your life, maybe you're struggling with, or you're hung up on, or you can you can have in your head which one of these levels you think you're at. Level one is admiration. That's just where you have someone that you think is great. They may not even know you exist. You just, you think this person's hot, whatever, there's something about them. Level two is mutual attraction. That's the level we're talking about when you feel a connection, whether it's a deeper connection, whether it's physical connection, you feel that mutual attraction

• 9:32Speaker 00

  with them. That's the level that's really dangerous. Level three is commitment. The reason level two is really dangerous is because it feels really important. But without level three, without someone actually saying, yes, I want you, I want to be with you, it's worthless. It's utterly worthless. It's like two people discovering a plot of land together, and it's a beautiful plot of land. You could build the most amazing house there, but it's still just a plot of land. A relationship is the thing you build on that land.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  You can't kid yourself that the plot of land is the thing. It's not. So commitment is the commitment to actually build something on that plot of land. And then even commitment on its own isn't enough. You need compatibility and compatibility is level four. Do we work together? Okay, we have mutual attraction. We've both said yes to a relationship, but does this work? Do we share a vision for our lives? Do we have lifestyles that are compatible? Do we share have a shared moral compass? Do we think the same way about life?

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:39Speaker 00

  You know, do you feel it's okay to lie all the time? And I really value honesty. Do you like to go out till five AM every night? And I really enjoy the morning. Like, and okay, if that's true, can we still find quality enough quality time together outside of the night time in the morning that we can sustain a relationship? Like compatibility matters. And my whole thing is this, if you have mutual attraction, commitment, they're saying yes, and you are too, and you have compatibility, it works.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:11Speaker 00

  And then the love of your life gets taken from you in a horrible accident. That's tragic. That is a real tragedy. But if you're in level two, and the person that you say is your person is walking this earth, is still here, ordering things on Amazon, and they're choosing not to be with you, that's not a tragedy.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  No.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  They could be with you and they're not choosing not to. So we have to lose the story that this person is my person. They're not your person. It can't someone can't exist and they're somewhere right now and not choosing you and they're your person. It's a story we have in our mind. It's not reality. And I think that that is a tremendous help in getting over people, because you may still need to grieve. But my friend, I don't know if you know David Kessler, the grief expert, one of the leading grief experts, he said to me, grief is a result you didn't want.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Right, that's the grief, yeah.

• 12:21Speaker 00

  And when someone you thought would become more, says they don't want more, that is a result you didn't want. So it may still require grief, but it's not the grief of I've lost my soulmate.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:38Speaker 00

  It's the grief of disappointment that this person never became my soulmate, even though I thought they were, and it turns out they weren't. And I'm grieving the loss of that future and the idea that I had about this person and this relationship. What I'm not doing is living in the chronic grief of thinking that person is the love of my life and they're still out there. That's the kind of grieving that doesn't go away. And I have watched the extremes of this, where people 20 years, 30 years on are still talking about a person who was in their life 30 years ago, that they've never gotten over. And I, I want to say you are locked in a story right now, that is, the great tragedy

• 13:23Speaker 00

  of your life, if you're not careful, is going to be giving over your life to this fake story.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Because they're stuck in level two, which is the connection part, right?

• 13:33Speaker 00

  Because you're you're you're valuing this idea.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  Right, the story in the head, in your head.

• 13:38Speaker 00

  Not not the reality. If it was the reality, it would be the reality. You would be with this person. We have this great story. I mean, I I love the movie Titanic. I will cry every time in that movie.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  I love it too.

• 13:51Speaker 00

  But if you really stand back, there's something a little odd about the idea that a woman in her, I don't know if she's 90s or over a hundred, I can't remember, but she's pretty

• 14:08Speaker 01

  She's pretty old. I think she's almost a hun- I think she is a hundred.

• 14:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:12Speaker 00

  Still telling this story about a guy that she knew for about five days on a boat.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  I guess you're right, but I think what I totally

• 14:26Speaker 00

  Like, she didn't even know him.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  She didn't know him.

• 14:28Speaker 00

  She didn't know him.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  But I think that's why that part of the book, I think, is so good. Because I really believe that that number two, that connection part, is where most people do get stuck.

• 14:41Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  I mean, I really do believe it. Like, you know, going through it, like, I'm married now, whatever. But there's always these people that you had this thing with, that things never turned out for one reason, who cares, circumstance, that I don't know if it's because, and I'm lot, almost everybody I know gets stuck in this area at some point.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  All of us.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  And it depends on like, either like the, it depends on the length of time. Maybe some are still stuck in it. But what that's why it's so resonated so strong. And I think it depends on, it's a potential, like, kind of opportunity or potential that was never turned or like seen out. So that's where the book gets

• 15:20Speaker 00

  The great, the unhatched eggs of our life.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:23Speaker 00

  You know, I think, have you seen this new show, One Day?

• 15:26Speaker 01

  Oh, no, what is that one?

• 15:27Speaker 00

  The big new show on Netflix. It's like a very popular show at the moment. I'm not going to give away any spoilers, but it

• 15:33Speaker 01

  Should I watch it? Is it worth it?

• 15:35Speaker 00

  Oh, it's a lovely show. It's extremely engaging and entertaining. Yeah. And me and my wife loved it. But it's a story about these two friends who, or these two people who meet in college and this kind of constant, you know, will they, won't they type story.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, okay.

• 15:53Speaker 00

  And it's a very dangerous story, because you see, you know, how someone can give up so much of their life.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  Like, giving someone so much real estate in their mind. And in TV shows and movies that can pan out nicely.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:13Speaker 00

  But in real life, bad bets are just bad bets. They're not, you know, you wouldn't, you wouldn't take your life savings and put it on a, you know, one in a thousand bet. But it's like we do that in our love life all the time.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  But do you think people are doing it as a distraction?

• 16:31Speaker 00

  That's an interesting point. I think it can be a form of avoidance.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:35Speaker 00

  I think it's a way to not be an active participant in our own life. It's a way to not be involved, because it fulfills something.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:48Speaker 00

  It feels

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Fantasy. It's like a fantasy is what it is.

• 16:51Speaker 00

  It's a fantasy, and it's safe. I can talk about it from the comfort of my bedroom, and it requires me to risk nothing. It lives on as this endlessly fascinating, mysterious thing. It never has to disappoint me, even though ultimately, it's the great disappointment of our lives that we've given up on the the real thing. But

• 17:12Speaker 01

  So many, and also, like you said, hours, and literally, if you kind of add up all the hours that people spend on this area in their life, it's probably be like years of time spent.

• 17:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, people give up decades to these ideas and these stories. And it's, it's really tragic. It's easier to like, kind of nurture that egg.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 17:32Speaker 00

  That never hatches than to go out and and live. Because by the way, living is often It's messier and it's, you know this, with people in business, it's easier to talk about an idea of a great concept you have. To go out and actually put time and energy into it.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:52Speaker 00

  It's harder. Look, writing is the same way.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Analogy, actually.

• 17:56Speaker 00

  My writing coach said to me, never expect what you put on the page to be as good as what, as how it is in your mind.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:05Speaker 00

  It is a, it's a kind of poor version of this perfect idea you have in your head. And you're just doing your best to try to get as close to that as possible. But you have to accept the fact that it is a, this thing that you end up on the page with is often a very disappointing version of this thing you have in your head. But at a certain point in life, you have to decide, am I a real writer? Or am I someone who talks about this great book idea they've got? And in our love life, we can either be in the game and active and involved, or we can hold on to this perfect unhatched egg and talk about how great it would have been or could be if only. And the, it comes down to, do you wanna live a real life?

• 18:50Speaker 01

  That is seriously such a great point. And that's a great analogy too, right? Cause 99% is perspiration, right? Like 1% is the idea in business, right? Like, anyone can talk, you know, it's, it's fun to fantasize and think and dream, right? But like the sweat, like the sweat comes in the actual hard work and it's.

• 19:11Speaker 00

  As it does in a marriage.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:13Speaker 00

  You know, you look at, whenever I hear of love at first sight, I, I kind of think, what an insult to marriage.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, right?

• 19:19Speaker 00

  You know, the marriages is this path that people take that is, it takes guts and it takes effort and it takes two people being, you know, in this marathon together and figuring it out as they go and constant, you know, doubling down on their commitment to the relationship and to making it as good as it can be and going through hard times together. And the days where it's just rough or the periods of life where there's financial instability and you find a way to stick together or illness and you're taking someone to the hospital and you're, like, that's the guts of a relationship. When someone says they were my person and they've known them for three months.

• 20:04Speaker 00

  I'm like, it's wasting my time.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:07Speaker 00

  Most of what a relationship is, you've never seen from that person. How could you have seen it from that person?

• 20:13Speaker 01

  It's impossible. Then how do you get over a relationship you never had? Cause this is what it really is. People have to, how do you, is it, what's a tactical way to get over a relationship that you never had? Is it just to, again, be cognizant of it and act differently? Do, like, start dating people?

• 20:32Speaker 00

  You put, you put intention behind moving forward in your life, like real intention. It's like a breakup. There's a grieving period and everyone knows it's going through, gone through a terrible breakup. There's a zombie-like period where you're just good for nothing. But at a certain point, you have to put intention behind moving on. You can't be passive about it. It is a war of attrition against those feelings. It is waking up one day and deciding, let me get everything out of this fucking apartment that has a connection to them because it is not helping me to see that picture over there or to see that memento we got from that time in Cabo or to get,

• 21:16Speaker 00

  I don't need that stuff around me. Let me get them off of my social media. Why am I still following them? Why haven't I muted them already so that I don't see their posts? Why am I still talking about them with friends? Why, come to think of it, when my friend comes to me for lunch and says, oh, you know, they've started dating so and so or whatever. Why am I not telling my friend, hey, I love you, but I need you to just stop talking about them because I don't wanna have them as a conversation anymore. They are not a topic of conversation that's relevant to my life anymore. So it would really help me if we stopped talking about them all together. We can talk about anything else in the world. It doesn't help me to know this information. You have to be intentional about moving on.

• 22:01Speaker 00

  And a lot of people are not willing to be intentional about moving on because it's harder to go and live a real life.