Episode 582: How Constant Health Optimization Makes Us Less Happy and Healthy

What if all this optimizing is actually making us less happy? Sleep scores, step counts, glucose monitors, supplements, peptides, wearables, and endless wellness protocols have turned health into something we constantly track, measure, and try to perfect. But when every meal, workout, night of sleep, and social plan becomes another data point, the pursuit of better health can start creating more stress than clarity. You may look disciplined and optimized on the outside while feeling anxious, restricted, and disconnected from the life you are trying to improve. Technology has also changed the way we trust our own bodies. We wake up feeling fine, check a low sleep score, and suddenly decide we are exhausted. We skip dinners, birthday cake, travel, drinks, and time with friends because we are afraid of disrupting a routine or hurting a metric. The tools designed to support our health can begin controlling our choices, until we are protecting the routine more than we are enjoying the results. The real question is not always "How can I optimize this?" Sometimes it is "Is this actually improving my life?" Health should give you more energy, freedom, connection, and joy. It should not make you afraid of food, obsessed with numbers, or unwilling to be spontaneous. Every protocol, product, and intervention comes with a tradeoff, and more optimization does not automatically mean better physical or mental health. In this episode of Habits and Hustle, I talk about when healthy habits cross the line into obsession, why sleep trackers and wellness scores may create more anxiety than clarity, how people are sacrificing dinners, birthdays, relationships, and spontaneity to protect their routines, and why looking optimized on the outside does not always mean you are healthy on the inside. What's Discussed: (01:25) Whether constant optimization is making us less happy. (03:11) When tracking and hacking every part of life becomes an obsession. (04:41) Where healthy optimization ends and extreme wellness behavior begins. (05:48) Why checking your sleep score can create more stress than clarity. (06:46) Why looking thin or optimized does not necessarily mean you are healthy. (07:45) How the wellness industry profits by selling fear and endless solutions. (08:17) Why people are optimizing their lives without actually enjoying them. (09:22) How protecting your routine can cost you dinners, birthdays, and relationships. (09:50) Why sleep tracker data can change how tired you believe you feel. (10:33) How technology and constant tracking have weakened human connection. (11:35) Why a phone call can be more efficient than endless texts and meetings. (16:37) Why chasing money, fitness, beauty, and longevity can leave you with fewer memories. Thank You to Our Sponsors! Magic Mind: Head over to magicmind.com/jen http://www.magicmind.com/jen and use code JEN at checkout. Momentous: Ready to try supplements that actually do what they claim? Head to livemomentous.com http://livemomentous.com and use code JEN for 35% off your first subscription. Therasage: Visit therasage.com http://therasage.com and use code JEN to get 15% off your order. Your skin Prolon: Prolon is offering listeners 30% off sitewide plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their 5-Day Program! Just visit prolonlife.com/JENNIFERCOHEN https://prolonlife.com/JENNIFERCOHEN and use code JENNIFERCOHEN to claim your discount and your bonus gift. Kion: Visit getkion.com/habits http://getkion.com/habits for 20% off. Tru Niagen®: For supplements that are rigorously tested, third-party verified, and actually deliver what's on the label, head to truniagen.com http://truniagen.com Find more from Jen Cohen: Website: jennifercohen.com https://jennifercohen.com Instagram: @therealjencohen http://instagram.com/therealjencohen Books: jennifercohen.com/books https://jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements https://jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

• 0:07Speaker 01

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• 0:49Speaker 01

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• 1:31Speaker 01

  Hi, everybody. Welcome to another, I guess quasi solo episode of Habits and Hustle, because I am joined by my, my very favorite foiler, Foil.

• 1:42Speaker 02

  I'm the voice in your head.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Yes, Shawnee Suisa, who I just kind of gab with for about 15, 20 minutes on these episodes and just kind of do a hot take of some kind. And so she's joining us again. But before we even get into the episode, I want to make sure I tell you guys all this, because I always forget. Please, guys, if you have not subscribed to this podcast either through any platform, I don't know, it could be Spotify, iTunes, it could be YouTube, I don't care, please press the button. It makes a massive difference in the algorithm, and it really helps. And I've been extremely remiss to tell people this for, what, six years?

• 2:18Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Maybe we should, if you guys listen to this, it takes two seconds and I will greatly appreciate it. So with that being said, let's move on to the episode. Shawnee, thank you for being here.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. You're so welcome. Okay, I want to talk to you about something that I think is, I'm just gonna say it, and then you can tell me what your thoughts are, okay?

• 2:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  So, this episode is gonna be about, do you think optimizing is making us less happy?

• 2:48Speaker 02

  So funny, because I was just thinking about buying an Oura ring, and in my mind, yeah, I was like, do I want to do that? Because I honestly hate walking around with my phone. I'd much rather like leave it, but I want to track my steps. But, you know, I track my steps. Is that the gateway drug? They're tracking every single thing in the world?

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Why can't you track your steps on your watch? I guess in your, again.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  I don't have a watch.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  No, you can work, like, I track my steps on this, on my, on my Apple Watch. But this is the thing, right?

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I don't have one. I don't buy an Apple Watch.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Like, listen, you know what? That's true. It's either one, Oura ring, whatever. I guess it's the same thing. I guess this is my point, right? Like, I'm, I'm a big optimizer, right? Like, this whole podcast, my whole life is about like, how to make you better, even 1% better, you know, in a year, right? Like, how do we make our physical health better? How do we make our mental health better? How do we make our emotional, spiritual, everything, health better? But I do think that it's becoming such an obsession in the world right now. Or maybe it's, I'm not sure actually if it's the world I'm in, or if it's really just like really becoming the big, big trend of like outside of my own vortex. Because honestly, like when I watch things everywhere, see people, everyone's wearing an Oura ring,

• 4:00Speaker 01

  everyone's wearing an Apple Watch, everyone is, you know, are doing these things, which I think is good to an extent. But where is the line of it taking over and controlling your life to a place where you are kind of optimizing everything and trying to hack everything to get a certain score, where you're not having, like, the hat, like your happiness is now like not even being considered, or you're like, you're just, or your overall, just, you know, just being is not being, everything is now like gamified to a place where it's stressful.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  You know, I just think that there's like, you have to find the balance. Like, what's healthy optimization and what's psychosis? What's gonna make you go crazy? And I feel like that's the, there's, there's a, it's hard to find. I mean, Brian Johnson, or Johnson or Johnson, whatever.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a really good point.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  I mean, he just got this whole autoimmune disease because of all of his optimization.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Let's talk about it. That's a really good point. So Brian, Brian Johnson spends, what? $2 million a year?

• 4:57Speaker 02

  Insane.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  On his, like, his longevity, his health. And now he just came down with this autoimmune disease. Now, you know, you can argue, maybe he always had some, maybe he had it, but it was, but it was.

• 5:11Speaker 02

  He gave himself that.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Okay, but he, I heard him in an interview saying that maybe, you know, of course he's gonna say this, but like, maybe it would have been worse if it wasn't him, him doing all these things. Or did all of these kooky extremes create it, right? Like, it's like the chicken or the egg. You don't know. But I will say this, and this is what I, I think that, like, this is the thing I really believe, is honestly, and I think this is like such a cliche, oh, everything in moderation. But no, the people I know who are honestly like the most healthy or live the longest, don't really do any of this stuff. They like, kind of like, they know how they sleep. They, you know when you wake up, if you slept well or not.

• 5:51Speaker 01

  You looking at your Oura ring, or your Whoop, or your phone, or whatever thing you're using to tell you is like, kind of like, becoming like silly at this point, right? Like, you need to know if it's, if your sleep score is 71 or 86, is it gonna, what is it gonna do? Is it, how's it gonna change your life?

• 6:10Speaker 02

  It actually is gonna hurt your life.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Well, because now you're gonna be like, oh, it's gonna make you frantic and stressful. Like, what, how does that number change what you do the next night? Oh, oh, I was only at a 60, so therefore maybe my room isn't dark enough. Maybe I should go sleep in the closet. Like, honestly, or like, oh, maybe my room isn't cold enough. Like, are you gonna constantly just, you know, modify what, like, what your circumstances is? That's even more annoying, and it's more of a headache. And how do you live like that? Why are people who are like healthy wearing glucose monitors? Like, it's one thing if you have diabetes, but if you don't have diabetes, why is everybody and their dog on a GLP-1 to lose weight? Now, the baseline has become like, now if you lose weight naturally, it's kind of like,

• 6:54Speaker 01

  it's, it's become like, like, it's become obsolete, right? You walk around, everyone's thin. But, but they're skinny thin, they're not muscular, they're not maybe healthy. My point is, we have all of these mechanisms in place to, to seem optimized, but really probably in the inside. Maybe we, we, on the outside, externally look optimized, but I would be curious to know, how optimized are we really inside, in our head, in our physicality, in all these things? If you're just skinny, but you have no muscle on your body, well, that's not so great either. If you are sleeping, you know, okay, but you're constantly thinking about your sleep, well, that's not good for your mental health either.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Like, I feel like everyone is so, it's become so extreme and over the top, because it's a trillion, multi-trillion dollar business and industry, and this has become what people are now, this is where the money is. And so, where the money is, more products, more technology, more everything, more businesses are being based around, how do we get you to spend? And how are we gonna scare you to think that you need this to be healthier?

• 8:00Speaker 02

  Yes. I think the big question through all of that is like, why are people optimizing so much if they're not also enjoying the life that they're optimizing for? So, you know, if your entire life is about just optimization, but you're not actually spending any of that time enjoying the, you know, the optimizing that you're doing, then it's like, what are you even optimizing for?

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Well, I know, I make a joke all the time. It's like, here I am, working out, eating properly, getting my hair done, doing all these things, so I'm really fit, and I'm doing all the things, and then I stay home and watch like TV, and like, eat, like, by myself.

• 8:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Alone. So, like, and I think that's become like the, the funny joke even on social media, all these memes, you know? I'm working out, crushing it, getting super fit, to stay home alone to watch Netflix. Like, literally, that is literally what's gone on.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  Right. I think.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  No one, no one, like, it's like no one's even enjoying, there's no one, no one's like socializing, because, because a big piece of it is because it's going to disrupt their routine of being healthy.

• 9:00Speaker 02

  Because then you're going out to eat, maybe you're having a drink, maybe you're doing this.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Or you want to go to the gym in the morning.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  So like, where is the healthy balance? So you're not gonna go with your friends to dinner, because you don't want to eat that food, so then you'll stay home. You're not gonna go out because you want to wake up early so you can get to the gym. You're not going to eat that piece of cake for your husband's birthday, your child's birthday. Why? Because then your glucose will, will spike. And like, everything is like now because you're scared of not being optimized.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  Yes, and it's also, you know, I saw, don't quote me on this, but I did see a study on Instagram, you know, the notorious academic journal that we love to read from. And, and on Instagram academia, it said that, you know, studies showed that people who were just told that their sleep scores were lower, felt that their sleep was worse and were significantly more tired than people who were told that their sleep scores were higher.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 9:57Speaker 02

  And I strongly believe that because I know people who are just absolutely psychotic about their sleep scores. And to me, I'm thinking like, listen, sometimes I get a good night's sleep, sometimes I don't, I don't like, whatever, like next day comes, next day goes, you know, like.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  So freaking true.

• 10:12Speaker 02

  Like, if I just tell myself I slept fine, like, I slept fine, like, I'm good, I'm awake, I'm here, I'm ready to go, what do we gotta do? You know what I mean? Like, just keep it moving.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  You know what I really miss? I miss the 90s. I always say this, I miss living in the 90s and the early 2000s, when life was normal. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I didn't wear, I didn't have an Oura ring or what, I just like, did my thing, and if you're right, if I slept well, I slept, if I didn't, well, the next night I'll sleep better. You know, I like.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  Nobody's house was perfectly aesthetic for Instagram with everything decanted.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Right, I wasn't scrolling, doom scrolling, like, watching strangers who I'll never know, you know, talk about whatever is trending right now, or try to like, capture the algorithm in a video that I won't even remember it, like, in three seconds from then. Like, how many people here remember any reel that they saw five minutes ago?

• 11:04Speaker 02

  Oh, I have such a good memory for reels.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  Oh, I remember zero.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  I remember so many reels.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  I remember none.

• 11:09Speaker 02

  It's alarming, actually. But, you know.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm gonna tell you this, if they're funny, that's one thing, but I think most of them are not. And also, what I miss in the 2000s is socializing and human connection. You know, if I call somebody, they're freaked out, like, oh my god, like, this is what happens, right?

• 11:25Speaker 02

  You're such a phone person, though. You're such a phone person. Jen's a great, like, hour-long phone call type of person.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  No, I'm a phone person. Because, by the way, calling someone is how you connect to somebody. I don't give a shit.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  It's so easier, you know how hard it is to talk on text?

• 11:39Speaker 01

  By the way, you have to stop what you're doing, text the person, then, the conversation is so, it's so blunted.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  I stopped answering everybody. I don't answer, I just can't, it's annoying me.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  So you know what, I am, I'm the person that if I text you and you respond, I will call you.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love that, I love that.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  I will do that. And by the way, I get, I get shit for that all the time. And what is my biggest pet peeve is when I call the person and they don't answer. I'm like, bitch, I know you're there.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  Hilarious.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  You literally just, you just texted me.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  I love that you call. My favorite thing is that I can just, I know I can always just call you. Like, I love that. There's some people who just, you know, they're just weird on the phone. I'm like, just answer the fucking phone.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  One hundred percent. Like, I'm telling you guys now, if you're my friend, if you have my phone number, if you want, if you want to ask a question, please do me a favor, call me. All of my brand, all of my sponsors, all of my partnerships, like, literally, they probably think I'm a crazy person. Because most people, like, have to send the email and then, like, you know, schedule a phone call and then go onto a Zoom.

• 12:40Speaker 02

  No, it's too much, it drives me crazy. Just ask me the two questions, pick up the phone, we can go back and forth for a second. Yeah, it's so much easier.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Just, but pick up the phone, and this could be done in two seconds. Like, what's, what is, what is it you need to know? What is it that you want? Yes, no, good, maybe, okay, let's move it. Like, let's keep it going, like, you know, keep it moving. The amount of, like, time wasted because of all of this rigmarole of, like, having to text someone and then the DM and then scheduling, like, anyway, the optimization, like.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  By the way, calling people is actually optimizing your communications, which is hilarious.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, do you wanna optimize?

• 13:16Speaker 02

  It is a great way to optimize your communication.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  The best optimization thing to do?

• 13:21Speaker 02

  I was gonna also say, it is a really important topic, but I also think because you're so in the midst of everything, it's like, it's all-consuming for your world right now. Like, I don't think the whole world is on GLP-1s. However, I think a lot of our.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  No, I think a lot of people, more people than you think.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  People in Kansas, like, lots of people in Kansas are just walking around on GLP-1s.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Shawnee, yes, and I'm gonna tell you why, because it's become commoditized. You can now get a GLP-1, you can get like a trisepotide or for like thirty bucks.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  But we're in LA, you know how quickly people buy into this kind of stuff?

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Not just LA.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  But it's LA, it's Miami, it's New York, it's places where these things get bought into faster. I don't know that it's really touched, like, all of middle America.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  This is what I will say. How about this? This is what I will say, I think if anyone has expendable income, even a little bit, they, they are, they are on a GLP-1 or considering it.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  Right, right, fair, fair.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  That's fair, okay? So I'm not saying people who don't have money to buy dinner or lunch for their children are on it.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  Right, more affluent city dwellers, I would say, yes.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Okay, so more affluent city dwellers, for sure.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  Fine.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  I would also say no, say though, that it's becoming very, very cheap to be on one because they're, they're making it now, like, you can, you can buy, uh, like, a cup of coffee and then you can also buy your trisepotide or your retitriotide.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  How people trust it all so quickly.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  People don't give a shit.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  That's the thing is, like, I never, you know, I never got the COVID vaccine. I, I just, like, I.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  That's a whole other thing, but yes, I'll do that.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  But I, but I also have not done the GLPs either, and like, I, you know, I gained a lot of weight this year, and so then I had to lose a lot of weight, and everybody was telling me to get on them, but I just literally was like, I feel like I have so many problems and I prefer to put, like, other bad things in me that, like, I would rather, like, I'd rather have a Coke Zero than put in some random shot. Because that's like, you know, you give and take, like, you have to, you know, for, for the Coke Zero chemical, I give up the potential risk of, like, uh, you know, something going wrong over here.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  You know what's hilarious to me? A hundred percent. I was like, people will shun you for drinking a Diet Coke, but you can, you can, like, you can basically shoot yourself.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  Like, what?

• 15:32Speaker 01

  You can shoot yourself with 97 peptides from China that you have no idea what's in it.

• 15:37Speaker 02

  Idea what's in that.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  And that's okay.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  They just have no idea.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  Because all people care about is being skinny.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  But yet, they can, they can stand on their soapbox and be like, oh my god, you actually had a Diet Coke? I cannot believe you.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  By the way, wanting to be skinny is actually why I like Coke Zero, otherwise I'd go for a regular Coke, but it's hilarious. So we each have our vices, like, you guys get Ozempic and I get my Coke Zero.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Exactly. It's like a bunch, everything is like, this world is so ass-backwards, it is unbelievable. And like, I just find it to be just, like I said, with all this, people are more miserable than ever, which we're gonna talk when the next episode.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  Well, okay, I wanna add one quote, the working to live slash living to work, it's the same premise, right? So many people are so caught up making money, so many people are so caught up optimizing their health. We're all caught up, everybody's caught up doing all these things to better their life, but they're not actually enjoying the better life that they're trying to better, right?

• 16:32Speaker 01

  I, I, I really, I really, really believe that to be true. I agree with you.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  It's a real big thing. It also is why, like, you know, growing up, I always wanted to be a billionaire, which is great, fine. I still do, in theory, but I also don't wanna have to go about my life in the way that a lot of people who have become billionaires have gone about their life. I don't wanna sacrifice living. That's crazy. I don't wanna end up with so much money and no memories. Like, I just don't want that. I don't wanna end up with, you know, the hottest body and the hottest face in the world, but like, no happiness, no memories, no joy, no stories, you know? It's just a lot. Like, this nose job, now I can't really breathe well, which is fine, fair play, like, I look a little bit better, but like, I look a little bit better. I don't look like a million times better. I'm not like, oh my god, she's Gisele out of nowhere. Like, I don't know, now I can't breathe.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  Now playing tennis is harder, now working out is harder, now partying is harder. Everything's harder, right?

• 17:26Speaker 01

  I love that you said, can I, I think.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  Is it worth it?

• 17:28Speaker 01

  I really love that you said this, because I think that's like a really, like, there's always a cost.

• 17:35Speaker 02

  Always.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  To everything, you know? There's always a pro and a con to everything. So like, that's really interesting, because I wanna talk about that in the next episode, so let's hold that, okay? You guys, that was, that's the rant for today. Um, let's, let me, let us know your comments. Do you really think that we're, we're getting optimized to the place of being completely out of touch, unhappy? Or do you think it's a good thing? Let me know in the comments. Please subscribe and always, always. Thank you for, uh, listening and we'll see you again soon. Bye-bye.