Episode 575: Dr. Jonathan Schoeff: Peptides and the Marketing Behind Modern Longevity - Part 2

Are you chasing longevity hacks while missing the habits that actually change your health? Everyone wants the shortcut. The GLP-1. The fasting protocol. The supplement. The perfect biomarker. The next thing that promises better energy, better body composition, and a longer life. But the real issue is that most people are drowning in information and still missing what actually moves the needle. Your body is not random. Muscle affects insulin sensitivity. Movement changes how glucose gets used. Sleep impacts recovery. Fasting can be powerful when it is done strategically. And the right biomarkers can show you risks that "normal" lab work may completely miss. Once you understand the why behind the habit, you stop guessing and start making smarter decisions. In this episode of Habits and Hustle, I sit down with Dr. Jonathan Schoeff, surgeon, longevity expert, and co-founder of The Longevity Lab, to break down the real science behind GLP-1s, muscle loss, fasting, testosterone, grip strength, key biomarkers, movement, sleep, and what actually supports long-term health. What's Discussed: (1:26:03) Why GLP-1s are more nuanced than the muscle loss headlines suggest. (1:30:31) How strategic fasting can support fat loss without sacrificing muscle. (1:33:09) Why fasting activates repair pathways and metabolic flexibility. (1:39:26) What fasting actually does to insulin, ketosis, and fat burning. (1:42:29) Why random five-day fasts may not work the way people think. (1:55:24) How to structure a pre-fast, fast, and post-fast day. (1:57:02) Why walking after your last meal can change glucose and insulin response. (2:09:31) How metabolic dysfunction can drive low testosterone in men. (2:23:29) What biomarkers most doctors miss, including fasting insulin and lipoprotein(a). (2:31:23) Why grip strength is an overhyped longevity metric and what matters more. Thank You to Our Sponsors! Magic Mind: Head over to magicmind.com/jen http://www.magicmind.com/jen and use code JEN at checkout. Pique: Go to piquelife.com/jenniferrsd https://piquelife.com/jenniferrsd to get 20% off for life plus free gifts Momentous: Ready to try supplements that actually do what they claim? Head to livemomentous.com http://livemomentous.com and use code JEN for 35% off your first subscription. Therasage: Visit therasage.com http://therasage.com and use code JEN to get 15% off your order. Your skin Prolon: Prolon is offering listeners 30% off sitewide plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their 5-Day Program! Just visit prolonlife.com/JENNIFERCOHEN https://prolonlife.com/JENNIFERCOHEN and use code JENNIFERCOHEN to claim your discount and your bonus gift. Find more from Jen Cohen: Website: jennifercohen.com https://jennifercohen.com Instagram: @therealjencohen http://instagram.com/therealjencohen Books: jennifercohen.com/books https://jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements https://jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements Find more from Dr. Jonathan Schoeff Website: longevitylabwellness.com http://longevitylabwellness.com Instagram: @jonschoeff https://www.instagram.com/jonschoeff/ Facebook: Dr. Jon Schoeff https://www.facebook.com/p/Dr-Jonathan-Schoeff-Longevity-Expert-General-Surgeon-61576146488809/ YouTube: @drjonschoeff https://www.youtube.com/@drjonschoeff

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Welcome to the Habits and Hustle Podcast, where I sit down with the world's biggest thinkers, entrepreneurs, athletes, and experts to uncover the habits, strategies, and mindset shifts that actually move the needle in your health, happiness, and success. And today, I'm back with Dr. Jonathan Schoeff, a surgeon, longevity expert, and co-founder of The Longevity Lab, who is still very actively practicing medicine, I should say. After part one, we knew there was way too much left over that we had to keep on going. So in this part of the conversation, we get into this stuff everyone is talking about, but very few people actually

• 0:46Speaker 01

  understand, which is GLP-1s, muscle loss, fasting, testosterone, biomarkers, grip strength, movement, sleep, longevity metrics, which are actually worth paying attention to. What I love about Dr. Jonathan is that he does not make health more complicated to sound smart. He breaks it down in a way that makes you question the trend, understand the mechanism, and come back to the basics that actually moves the needle. What he shares in this episode will change the way you think about GLP-1s, fasting, muscle, and health markers that you should actually be tracking. So let's dive in. Enjoy.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, no matter what.

• 1:33Speaker 00

  Then you can, yeah, then you can.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Are they all Skin Better that you like?

• 1:36Speaker 00

  I do like the Skin Better formulations. I know it's goofy.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  Why is it goofy? It's not goofy.

• 1:43Speaker 00

  Oh, well, because as a guy.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  As a guy, yeah. Well, you're like very, you know, you take care of yourself.

• 1:49Speaker 00

  Well, I'm taken care of. That's how it works.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  Okay, well, either way, you don't, okay, listen, well, it's working. Okay, now looking into the GLP-1 stuff. So you said that retinotid is, you want any of these GLPs?

• 2:03Speaker 00

  Life-changing, no. I've used all of them.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  You have used all of them?

• 2:07Speaker 00

  Absolutely. Well, semaglutide and up. So semaglutide, trisepotide, retinotid, I've used all of them.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  So if people are having, like, so between trisepotide and retinotid, I know one works on two receptors, one works on three receptors. So you believe it's a tool, and you don't believe everyone should be on them, even though you're talking about the insulin resistance and to build muscle. So here comes the contradiction, right?

• 2:31Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  So if muscle is the biggest longevity organ to keep your insulin low, yet GLP-1s have been obviously known to like break down muscle and eat away at your muscle.

• 2:43Speaker 00

  They've been blamed, they've been alleged.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Alleged, yes. Okay, so you don't think that the GLP-1s?

• 2:50Speaker 00

  It's not that, it's not that simple. No, no. Well, I mean, I know the data. Okay, so if you look at the step one trial, which was the first semaglutide weight loss trial, 2021, what did it demonstrate? This is really important. Forty percent loss of lean body mass, LBM. So the problem is, and I just saw a post on this just the other day, lean body mass is not skeletal muscle. Okay, they're not the same thing. The 40% is lean body mass. So if you want to make the argument, or say you're a personal trainer, you want to get your hustle, and, or you want to do some peptides, this, and the other, then you say, oh my gosh, 40% loss of skeletal muscle. No, it's lean body mass. And realize that lean body mass includes

• 3:30Speaker 00

  skeletal muscle as one component. In healthy, fit individuals, that may, may reach the 50% mark. In other words, 50% of your lean body mass in a very fit, well-muscled individual can be skeletal muscle. Okay, that's in a really fit person. So it goes down from there. In other words, no one lost 40% of their muscle. It's not reality. So it's lean tissue. So it includes fat mass, but it also includes organ mass. So non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, which is what retinotid, 100% reduced their fatty liver, which is, that's a game changer

• 4:10Speaker 00

  from a health perspective. In that case, that's a part of lean body mass. So losing, improving the metabolic function of your liver, losing liver fat is a very good thing. And that's lean body mass, too. So it's just not as clean as, you know, Ozempic chews up muscle. Okay, now, I do agree that early on, and this was the age-old story with any drug, misuse and abuse, that's always what brings it down. So yes, when personal trainers and nurses and all these people were handing out Ozempic without any, any clarity, any reason, bear in mind Ozempic's like an anorexic's best friend. I mean, it was abused at an extreme level. I think it still is. But

• 4:53Speaker 00

  the thing about semaglutide was that by far and away is the most profound appetite suppressant. So yes, were people starving? Yeah, yeah. And if you look at the scientific literature, the nutrition literature about highly restrictive dieting, you can lose up to 75% of lean body mass. How do we know that? All you gotta do is watch The Biggest Loser.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Right. You can just like, exactly. So you can say that it's because the app, you're just not eating.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  If you're, if you're in a profound calorie deficit from restriction, whether you're called an anorexic or someone on semaglutide, yes, you risk muscle. I agree with that. But it doesn't have to be that way. In fact, I think GLPs create a very unique environment to actually augment muscle. I mean, what I see in my practice every day with our protocols is literally pure fat loss. They don't lose a pound of muscle, and they lose pure fat. Strategic fasting, I mean, that's the secret sauce. But GLPs fit incredibly well into that overall strategy.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  Wait a minute. So strategic fasting, is there a way to fast where you can only, where you only lose fat and not?

• 6:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, 100%.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Muscle?

• 6:09Speaker 00

  100%. I've got, I mean, I could line them up.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Well, you're fasting now, right?

• 6:13Speaker 00

  I am fasting now, yes.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  How long are you fasting for?

• 6:17Speaker 00

  Oh, just fast for the day. Just, so whatever you want to call that. So I call 24-hour fasting, technically, maybe 34, 36. It doesn't matter a ton to me.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Okay, but are you a person who doesn't care about food?

• 6:31Speaker 00

  No. You mean like, how do you mean?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  What I mean by that is like, right, but like, so you're someone who maybe like sees food as fuel, not as like?

• 6:43Speaker 00

  As friend?

• 6:43Speaker 01

  As friend.

• 6:44Speaker 00

  I think all people should see food as fuel, not as friend. You have to look, and this is one of the conversations, so when I meet a new client.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  Because I love food.

• 6:56Speaker 00

  I know. So I'll tell you a true story. I had a client several years ago that I asked, I said, what's your relationship with food? And she said, I have a very loving marriage with food. I said, well, I'm going to be the guy that causes a divorce. But food, remember there, what's your relationship with food? Alcohol, anything on the list. Yes, do they all have the potential to have detrimental health effects? Sure. Does that mean they're detrimental to your health in existence? No, not at all. I do try to help people retool their thought process around

• 7:33Speaker 00

  food as primarily a fuel. It's a fuel first. Enjoying your food, 100%. I'm all for it. Being dependent on your food, that's very different. And right, I think that's the line that gets blurred in America.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Okay, wait a minute. Okay, so there's, okay, that, you're like, so fasting to you, why is it so important? And how do you do it where you can maintain your, your lean muscle mass? And if someone's not a faster, how do they become a faster when they love food and like, they can't even imagine not eating and use it as an energy source? Like, I don't know, if you're someone who's an actual, if you work out a lot or you're super active, the idea of not eating is super difficult for me.

• 8:24Speaker 00

  It can be. Yeah, it can be, for sure.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Now you can answer all those questions.

• 8:28Speaker 00

  I know, like, oh, I gotta remember. Okay. So why fast? First of all, it is the most potent, powerful activator of a biologic pathway called AMPK, A-M-P-K. You've heard of, let's see, all the, have you heard of rapamycin?

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:46Speaker 00

  That's a big, okay, so rapamycin upregulates AMPK. That's why you would take it. So it shuts down mTOR, which is a growth pathway. There's, in the body, there's growth and repair. Let's make it super simple, yin and yang, right? You can have, they can be coincident. You can be doing activities minute to minute that are favoring growth while also allowing for repair. But as we age, as you can imagine, you technically, and this is what all the longitudinal data would, would say is, you need relatively more time to repair. Because there's, just think of it basic, there's more opportunity for error. What is cancer, it's unchecked growth by definition.

• 9:26Speaker 00

  So if we don't allow that time for repair, the body can be exclusively based in this, in a growth mode. What you see right now in longevity as a whole, right, you have two camps. Think of it very simply. You have an mTOR camp, like a Gabrielle Lyon, grow, grow, grow, muscle, muscle, muscle, leucine, insulin, everything to activate growth, which I have a huge, profound respect for Gabrielle Lyon and what she's done, like women's health, just inspiring people. But that high protein, resistance training, progressive overload, that's a growth mindset. Then you see the other camp, which is the repair mindset. So that's, that's, growth is mTOR, M-T-O-R,

• 10:09Speaker 00

  repair, A-M-P-K. I know it's geeky, but that repair pathway, what does someone who embraces repair pathways look like? They fast a lot, ketogenic diets, so on so forth. They're typically frail. Does that make sense?

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I don't like that mindset. I'd rather be on the growth side.

• 10:27Speaker 00

  Correct. So this is the challenge. You have to be both. It doesn't work in isolation. So we've entered a very extreme time, and this is why some people are spouting off like, oh, what's going to come from all the high protein rage? Now, I don't have those concerns. I think invariably, when you look at the average protein consumption for an American is so low that increasing that, there's no harm attached to it. But this is what makes me a longevity expert, is I understand the potential detriment of growth and repair, and I use those two pathways strategically. Instead of being at the mercy of the human body and human biology, we should be

• 11:07Speaker 00

  able to actually strategically control these mechanisms. The most powerful tool we have to tell the body, it's repair time is fasting. No, not intermittent fasting, but.

• 11:19Speaker 00

  Legitimate sustained water-only fasting greater than 24 hours. Okay, so we can use that mechanism. I can fast on a Saturday and do a complete reset in my body. So that my, our, our end game is something called metabolic flexibility. I know this is geeky, but

• 11:39Speaker 01

  We've talked about metabolic flexibility.

• 11:41Speaker 00

  Flexibility is synonymous in the human body. The best example of metabolic flexibility in the human body is insulin sensitivity. What metabolic flexibility is this? It is the most efficient use of fuel sources based on condition and environmental need. So using fat when you're not running from a bear or the cops and using carbs when you need rapidly available fuel. This is the limitation with the ketogenic diet. Eliminating carbs is not the answer. Okay.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Okay, but wait.

• 12:09Speaker 00

  Do you see what I'm saying?

• 12:10Speaker 01

  I do, but wait.

• 12:11Speaker 00

  So it's all a spectrum. It's a spectrum.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  It's a spectrum. So you're saying though, okay, so.

• 12:14Speaker 00

  Do you need another shot?

• 12:15Speaker 01

  I do, really. I think I need like a box of these shots.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  I think I have one.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you do. Exactly. You have it in your bag. So basically then you're saying that we should be fasting for longer than 24 hours, not a water. Like you're saying it's a water fast.

• 12:34Speaker 00

  So, so.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  You can have water, basically. That's what you're drinking. Oh.

• 12:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  So you didn't fast because you had a magic mind.

• 12:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I looked at the ingredients. Yeah, it has allulose in it.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  So you're allowed to have things on your fast?

• 12:47Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Well, you just said.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  Zero calorie, zero carbohydrate, for sure. So yeah, no, non-nutritive. So allulose is a non-nutritive sweetener.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  So that little magic mind shot has 50 calories.

• 13:03Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  So that's okay?

• 13:04Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  So what are you allowed to have on a fast?

• 13:07Speaker 00

  Uh, I say black coffee.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  But why? Why couldn't you put some cream in then?

• 13:11Speaker 00

  Uh, because of the impact of fat on the fast. Now, it has less of an impact, but there is an element of energy balance that influences a fast. Okay.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  So why can you have a magic mind on a fast?

• 13:24Speaker 00

  Because there's nothing in it. It was just, uh, what, what do we? I was looking at lion's mane, rhodiola. So a great blend of, of nutraceuticals, vitamins, minerals. And then allulose is a non-nutritive sweetener.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  So basically people can have that on a fast.

• 13:41Speaker 00

  Sure. Yeah. You want a five hour energy? Go nuts. You want a Celsius? Be my guest. You, I don't know, whatever you like to do. I would strong, so on a fast, I recommended my clients minimum of 400 grams of caffeine or 400 milligrams. Excuse me. Minimum of 400 milligrams caffeine. Okay. Somewhere between for my male clients, usually four to 600 milligrams. That's a reasonable threshold for a woman, probably in the two, 400 range. Okay. So definitely caffeine because it's an accelerant for fat burning. Okay. So we want the key, this is the way it works. And this is why it's so simple. Okay. This is the crux of fasting. And I can explain why. So why do we fast? We fast to first and foremost,

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Reset.

• 14:25Speaker 00

  Reset the system. Force the body into one condition and one condition only, which is ultimately defined by ketosis or ketone production. But that's not why we're doing it. We're doing it to zero out our insulin levels for that period of time. Insulin is the gatekeeper. So if you're into the aesthetic body comp goals, fast. If you're into the autophagy, clearance of senescent zombie cells, fast. If you're into long-term health, health span, lifespan, longevity by definition, fast. It's all fasting. The fasting physiology, what drives it above all else is normalizing insulin.

• 15:11Speaker 00

  So when you have insulin, it's fascinating. Insulin is very, very, very engaging with fat cells. And insulin is pretty simple. It's a master switch. And this, oh, this is going to bring us full circle to Red A True type. Why does Red A True, what makes it so unique? So we talk all about insulin resistance. Insulin resistance is a byproduct of a failed system, lifestyle mediated. Insulin itself is not bad at all. Think of, you, you, you remember Goonies? Did you ever see a movie?

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Of course, yeah.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  You, you know, Sloth?

• 15:45Speaker 01

  I don't remember.

• 15:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, Chunk.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 15:47Speaker 00

  You know, Chunk's the big bald guy, the, the one, the guy they kept in the basement?

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:51Speaker 00

  The Sloth? I had to look that name up. But think of insulin as Sloth. It's like the big dumb older brother. He's not intelligent, but he's highly protected.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:00Speaker 00

  Okay. That's what insulin is to the human body. It's protecting the human body from the most toxic poisonous agent. This is a true statement that exists in circulation, which is glucose.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 16:13Speaker 00

  I said it.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Yes, you did say it.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  But that doesn't have anything to, don't.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  Okay, wait.

• 16:17Speaker 00

  That's not carbs. That's not sugar. It's glucose in your bloodstream.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  How often do you fast?

• 16:23Speaker 00

  It depends on what my current, the period that I'm in at any given time. So I will always fast intermittently, whether it be weekly, monthly, duration changes. But if I'm in a structured growth period, so I'm, my training intensity, rep range, nutrition. Right now I'm on a 1.2 grams per pound protein intake. So everything's geared towards muscle growth. I'm anticipating probably about a three-month interval. Okay. So during that period, the focus is growth. I'll use fasting once a week or every other week just to make sure that I'm accounting for that repair upgrade.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  And how long are you doing it for? 36 hours, you said?

• 17:09Speaker 00

  I typically it's 34 to 36 hours. And here's why. The problem with fasting, why does it go sideways? It's because no one knows what they're actually trying to accomplish. What you, I think you were saying this, like, I know people who fasted seven days, 10 days.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  Five days. It's a five-day fast.

• 17:28Speaker 00

  Why?

• 17:28Speaker 01

  To clean out the senescent cells, autophagy. That's what I've heard.

• 17:32Speaker 00

  But, but, but how do we know that's happening in five days? Because I will prove it to you. If you look at my clinical data, that's for some people in five days of fasting, they still haven't cleared their glucose stores sufficient to induce ketosis, which is ketosis, autophagy are, are linked.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:50Speaker 00

  Linked pathways. Five days, someone, I had a client whose fasting glucose was still above 100. Do you know what that, that, the, that is insane. We live in a over-fueled, under-moving society. Okay. Obesity is a disease. It's a pathology of over-fueling, right? And so if you're over-fueled, under-muscled and you don't move, welcome to America. That's the problem.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  So some, for some people, you're saying five days doesn't work?

• 18:19Speaker 00

  Yes, 100%.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  So they go two weeks?

• 18:22Speaker 00

  Well, who knows, right? It's, if, would you ever get into an airplane where you know full well the instrument panel's out?

• 18:29Speaker 01

  No.

• 18:30Speaker 00

  Of course not. No one's going to do that. So that's exactly what you're doing when you randomly pick a number that you heard Joe Rogan talk about and fast for X number of days. There's zero data. The difference, the crux of the whole conversation is that your body actually will tell you the exact prime time duration of your fast. And it will change over time. It should.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  So how do you know for you?

• 18:52Speaker 00

  I follow serum ketones. Tells me exactly where I need to be.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  So how do people do this?

• 18:56Speaker 00

  Well, right now, I'll tell you two things. One option is poking your finger. If you've ever seen like a diabetic poke their finger. Okay. That's old school.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:05Speaker 00

  There is a product made by Sibio, S I B I O. It is the first continuous ketone monitor. People wear glucose monitors?

• 19:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:13Speaker 00

  Now I'm wearing a glucose monitor, continually checking glucose and continually checking ketones. That has totally changed the game for me.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  You're wearing them right now?

• 19:21Speaker 00

  Not, not currently, no. But I will do.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 19:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, I don't have any, because I ripped my monitors off, uh, pushing a sled the other day.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 19:31Speaker 00

  I was kind of irritated. My, uh, my guy was beating me down and, and I was just like, and I ripped them all out. So anyway, I, I gotta put new ones on. And, and I don't wear them all the time. I just use the, this is the criticism around CGM and the general population. Oh my gosh, you know, people are just getting a bunch of data. Well, if it, if it's data that is understood and interpreted and applied, it's incredibly valuable. If it's just numbers on a sheet, sure, it's worthless.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Okay, so if someone just starts today, we used to say just do 24 hours, 36 hours?

• 20:00Speaker 00

  No, we have, no, it's about the goal.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  If they want to clean out the senescent cells.

• 20:06Speaker 00

  Right.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  And they want for body composition and they want all the

• 20:09Speaker 00

  You're gonna get it all.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  Reset. Yeah, of course.

• 20:11Speaker 00

  Right. So the relationship, very plainly, and I will be honest, as a purist, I don't have human data, specifically antisessen data.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 20:23Speaker 00

  Or autophagy-based data, very hard to do outside of like a academic lab. But the clearest correlation through a common pathway of AMPK upregulation is that more ketones equals more autophagy. It's a very simple way to look at it. So your speedometer, your

• 20:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  Is all the same, right? So if that speedometer is going up, you're producing more ketones. You are by definition accelerating autophagy while you're also accelerating fat burn. The beauty is you're getting lean and fit and looking your best while you're clearing the bad stuff. This is why it drives me nuts. All the longevity experts are like biohack this, biohack that. Just fast, shut up and fast. You'll be just fine.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Really?

• 21:09Speaker 00

  And guess what? It's free. In fact, actually you save money. My fast, if you saw the amount of food I eat on a regular basis, my fast has, saves me a hundred bucks at least. Easy.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Really?

• 21:21Speaker 00

  I mean, I

• 21:22Speaker 01

  And you're not hungry?

• 21:24Speaker 00

  No, not even slightly.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Are you able to work out on that, though?

• 21:28Speaker 00

  Good question. So yes and no. I would be very strategic about focusing. So movement is everything during a fast. Okay, let's do this. So if you'll buy that, there is a directed relationship. More ketones, more autophagy. So that's your ultimate longevity.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:49Speaker 00

  Tool. More ketones only comes from one source. There's not like option A or B.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:55Speaker 00

  If you have ketones in your bloodstream, they're coming from fat being broken down into free fatty acids and distributed in the bloodstream. This is the mechanism with which it happens. Okay? And the only thing that controls that is insulin. How do we know that to be true? Look at a type one diabetic. Do you know what kills type one diabetics acutely? It's something called diabetic ketoacidosis. When you have no insulin in your bloodstream, your fat just starts getting chewed through. More fat in the bloodstream, which is what we want, right? Fat burn. You want to be lean, fit. Equals more ketones. It's a linear relationship.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I'm following you. Does that mean the same for, but women and men are different?

• 22:37Speaker 00

  Yes, it means the exact same. No, women and men are humans.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  So it doesn't matter?

• 22:41Speaker 00

  Sorry.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  So I thought like women is different with hormones and all these things.

• 22:45Speaker 00

  We'd like you to believe that. Okay, this is another aside. Stay with me. There is something on the horizon, okay? That is going to transform our understanding of women's health. There's a company called Quinn Labs, okay? I met their founder, oh, at some A4M event, I think.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  You go to A4M?

• 23:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  What are you going there for?

• 23:07Speaker 00

  To learn.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 23:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I want to know what's, what's happening.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Do you speak there?

• 23:11Speaker 00

  I'm, I'm hopeful. I submitted my application. I'm hopeful to speak this year, yeah.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 23:17Speaker 00

  At Longevity Fest?

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, I really, I, I clearly have a lot to say.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  Clearly.

• 23:22Speaker 00

  I don't hold it back.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  Clearly, no, no, no.

• 23:24Speaker 00

  And I can put a crowd to sleep with the monotone.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, no, no, you're doing great. You're not putting me asleep. I do need another magic mind. No, sorry, go ahead.

• 23:31Speaker 00

  Yes, so, so the, the, the relationship though is very clear. So I just, what I stress to people is you have knowledge. It's not the duration, it's the intensity. Just like it's not the duration of exercise, it's the intensity, right? If you can accomplish whatever muscle growth, that is max benefit for your aesthetic, for your performance officer, in 30 minutes versus an hour, which do you pick?

• 23:55Speaker 01

  30.

• 23:56Speaker 00

  Of course. If you could put a million dollars in your bank account in one month guaranteed, or you could kind of slave away for the next five years and maybe.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  Of course, a month, yes.

• 24:05Speaker 00

  So the only thing I haven't proven yet, which is where, where I'm headed with this in my clinical practice, is that indeed, the intensity of ketosis correlates to the intensity of autophagy. Meaning, the higher the ketosis, the higher the autophagy. So what if you could do max cellular cleanup? That the literature, the scientific evidence says five to seven days of non-eating. What if you could accomplish that in 34 hours? I'm doing 34 hours every time. It's a no brainer.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:35Speaker 00

  Because the problem with prolonged fasting is starvation physiology. Cortisol spikes. Cortisol is the most catabolic hormone in the body. Start breaking down muscle. And the tragedy is, and this is why I monitor for all my clients, we monitor glucose and ketones. Because I can tell you when your cortisol spikes.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  How?

• 24:53Speaker 00

  On a dime. Well, your glucose spikes. And guess what happens when your glucose spikes?

• 24:58Speaker 01

  What?

• 24:59Speaker 00

  Insulin. And guess what happens when insulin happens? No more fat burn. And you're done. So people are going through a fast. They may have a cortisol dump shift into what's called, I would call it starvation physiology, but they start breaking down muscle in producing glucose in the bloodstream. Insulin hits and all of a sudden their ketones go to zero.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  So you're saying women, like pre-menopausal women with hormones and all these things should be fasting?

• 25:28Speaker 00

  Absolutely, trillion percent. A trillion percent. And I'll tell you, so this goes back. So what's Quinn Labs doing?

• 25:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 25:35Speaker 00

  They're bringing a wearable to market. It's going to start as a finger stick, just like I'm talking about for, for ketones. So write these things out. Sibio continues keto monitoring, going to change the world. Quinn Labs essentially continues her frequent interval estrogen and cortisol. This is going to be transformative for our understanding. Because right now it's all theory, right? You've got the one influencer that's like, oh, don't work out during your luteal phase and this and that. I mean, I get that your hormones are changing. But the beauty is, you want to have a fail safe. You want to have a zero, zero guide to say, I don't care what's going on in your body. Are you producing ketones? That's the answer.

• 26:18Speaker 00

  So do I have women fast in their luteal phase and generate a high grade ketosis? Yes.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  Wow, okay, so you're saying.

• 26:27Speaker 00

  But does that mean every woman does it? No, but the beauty is, all I have to do is check one number to tell you. So if a woman starts their fast regardless, so my female clients, once a week, every week, six weeks. So they go through the entire cycle, right?

• 26:42Speaker 01

  So once a week, you recommend to people to fast?

• 26:45Speaker 00

  The, the accelerator protocol, what we, we call the accelerator, metabolic accelerator, is a once per week for six weeks protocol.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  And then after that?

• 26:57Speaker 00

  Then you do a six week recovery. So aggressive repletion of glycogen as your priority, and then shift back to a balanced nutritive state.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  So every, so every six weeks?

• 27:10Speaker 00

  So you could, the way.

• 27:11Speaker 01

  Why not one week, what every?

• 27:13Speaker 00

  Six on, six off.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, six on, six off.

• 27:15Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  Yep, you can do that. So targeted, oh my gosh, if I, if I pulled out my foreign afters. Okay, this is the data in my practice. And by the way, I can record data in my practice and it does count as data.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:32Speaker 00

  Just because it's not in a scientific article that's published, doesn't make it not real.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Right, okay.

• 27:38Speaker 00

  So reproducibly in my client base, six weeks on average, six week, that's one cycle, 50%, five zero. They lose half their total body fat, 50%.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  By doing this back and forth, six weeks?

• 27:52Speaker 00

  No, no, no. By just doing one, one single six week protocol. 50% total body fat, up to 75% visceral fat. And that's the secret.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 28:04Speaker 00

  That's the trick. So you asked me, first off, can you only lose fat doing, doing strategic fasting? The answer is absolutely yes.

• 28:20Speaker 01

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• 29:02Speaker 01

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• 29:29Speaker 01

  Okay, so let's say tomorrow I'm going to fast.

• 29:31Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Okay, I can drink coffee.

• 29:33Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  And then I go from eight o'clock on Sunday to even 8:30 on Monday. Will that be okay?

• 29:40Speaker 00

  If you want those results that I'm describing.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Do it once a week.

• 29:44Speaker 00

  Extremely structured, way more structured than that.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  You just said I can have coffee, I can have magic mind, what else?

• 29:49Speaker 00

  But it's all what you do going into the fast, during the fast, and exiting the fast.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, but, okay, so what is the strategy that we should do?

• 29:59Speaker 00

  Playbook, it's, there actually exists.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  I know, I'm sure, listen, with you, I'm not at all surprised.

• 30:04Speaker 00

  This is a shameless plug, true story. We are wrapping up development of an entirely freestanding fasting module based on our entire experience, clinical experience, myself and one of my partners. So we're building out a standalone, full-on, full-on educational module that will support clients through the entire fasting journey down to, I mean, it's literally down to the minute. Because what happens, what I'm talking about? Would you get results from doing what you just said? Yes, you would. I think they'd be somewhat unpredictable. I don't know what we would do with it. But I can tell you, the key is, looking at every week, there's a three-day period that we got to lock in.

• 30:49Speaker 00

  The other four days, I need you training standard, max intensity, like we've talked. Eat whatever you want. I don't care what calories, the carbs, I mean, fuel with a purpose. Consume calories to maintain output. But for three days every week for a six-week period, you have a pre-fast, fast, and post-fast day.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Tell me what it is.

• 31:10Speaker 00

  Pre-fast, very pure and simple. Rapidly deplete glycogen. At the end of the day, pre-fast is about dropping your insulin as low as you can get while still consuming food. That's the prep, right? And what I said was, if we've got insulin in the bloodstream, forget about it. Don't bother.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  So how do we get rid of it?

• 31:29Speaker 00

  So ideal is your morning AM to midday. You need to get your major lift. So your heaviest lift of the week comes on your pre-fast day. That's how we structure it. So if you told me, hey, every Wednesday I do legs, cardio metabolic. That's usually what it is. It's a lower extremity or whole body. It's a big lift. Because lifting is what consumes massive amounts of glycogen. So heavy resistance, progressive overload, big movements, 45 minutes to an hour before 2:00 PM on your pre-fast day.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:00Speaker 00

  Earlier is better. Following your training session. That's the only time where I'm lasered on zero carb. You cannot have any carbs after your training session.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:10Speaker 00

  You can eat up till six P M. Fat and protein only. At six P M. We cut off all food.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:18Speaker 00

  Now here's the secret sauce. After that last meal of the day, you have to move. Movement is medicine. Yes, movement around meals is the is the true game changer. So we have that six P M. Meal sixty seventy five minute brisk walk. That's all you need.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  How long?

• 32:35Speaker 00

  Sixty to seventy five minutes. So for me, that's when I return my emails. It's when I do all my dosing and prescriptions. I just sit and walk. I walk on a walking pad. Super easy.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  For an hour after dinner?

• 32:50Speaker 00

  Yes. And if you folks, you want to know that if you change three things today to radically transform your body, that's all you're going to change. Okay. Movement is medicine hundred percent. Anchor everything in protein. Protein is the nonnegotiable. And eliminate added sugar. I don't care what else you do. I do not care about your calorie consumption. Because if you're eating whole food, you just can't consume. The absurdity of people like, oh, I'm, I'm, oh, you know, I, I, I eat ten thousand calories. No, you didn't. I mean, do you know how hard it is if you're eating whole food? Now, if you're drinking milkshakes, of course. But eliminate the added sugar. Okay, that's a nonnegotiable. Everything anchors in protein, your day and your meals. Protein first, okay?

• 33:34Speaker 00

  And then the last piece is move around meals. It is a game changer. If we talk about insulin resistance and how to augment glucose curves, because that is the key driver. Glucose stimulates insulin secretion. Period, done. Do other things do it too? Yes, absolutely. But the workhorse glucose. So if you can moderate your glucose excursions, how high, how long and how often? You will indeed be healthier metabolically. That's just real life. No one's, there's no debating it. And yet people get on these crazy train things like, oh, you know, you're saying no carbs. No, I'm not. I'm saying know what's happening in your body and use it to your advantage.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Brisk walking?

• 34:15Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  After every meal?

• 34:18Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 34:19Speaker 00

  And if you could only do it once in a day.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:22Speaker 00

  Do it after your last meal of the day.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 34:24Speaker 00

  Well, but we looked at it. This was no, no, this goes back to Lumen. We were talking about Lumen. When Lumen was initially founded and they were looking at their early data, the one single best predictor of entering fat burn mode while you were sleeping was movement after the last meal of the day. Why? Because it's it's such an incredibly powerful tool. Muscle is not a metabolic engine. Have you used that term like burns more calories? More muscle does.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  I do, I do use that.

• 34:56Speaker 00

  Okay, that's true. So I used to say it's a metabolic engine. But we need to reframe that conversation much higher level. Muscle is a glucose management system. Let muscle decide how glucose is utilized. Muscle cells can store glucose and they can use it as a fuel. I'm not smarter than your body. But if you move after a meal, you create channels, openings in your muscle real time actively. And the glucose pours into that without an insulin response. So in effect, what you're doing by moving after your last meal of the day is you're normalizing your insulin levels.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  An hour to seventy five minutes is a lot.

• 35:35Speaker 00

  It is, I get that.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  That's a lot.

• 35:36Speaker 00

  I get it.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Okay, people have to go to work the next day, their kids, whatever it is. Can thirty minutes?

• 35:41Speaker 00

  Have you heard of a family walk?

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, sorry, explain that to me.

• 35:44Speaker 00

  My little, my little girl, she, I would always take my son on a walk. And if she gets left out, she goes.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sure.

• 35:51Speaker 00

  She isn't, she will come flying out of the house screaming, like bawling.

• 35:56Speaker 01

  Really?

• 35:57Speaker 00

  Do you know what I had to leave me? Anyway, you could do a family, I agree.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  I'm just saying, can you do thirty minutes?

• 36:03Speaker 00

  Totally, totally. Here's where I would kind of push back a little bit. Again, if you want those results that I'm describing, pure fat loss, high grade, short period of time, that pre fast.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 36:14Speaker 00

  Post meal walk needs to be sixty seventy five minutes. So like I'm saying, so I'm talking about what you do on two days in your entire week.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Okay, that's fair.

• 36:24Speaker 00

  That's manageable.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  That's manageable. Okay, yeah.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  But I agree with you that in every night sixty seventy five, yeah, probably not practice.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Let me ask you a question. Maybe, are you on testosterone though?

• 36:34Speaker 00

  I do take testosterone, yeah.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  See, because.

• 36:37Speaker 00

  And you know, the reason I don't, so I, yeah, I don't have.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  No, I'm just saying because you're super, you're super fit. How old are you, forty six, forty seven, forty eight?

• 36:46Speaker 00

  Almost forty eight.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Forty eight, okay.

• 36:47Speaker 00

  Forty eight in a couple of weeks.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  And you're ripped. I went through your Instagram before you got here.

• 36:52Speaker 00

  Smoke and mirrors.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  Listen, smoke and, I don't know, I don't know if you can fake that.

• 36:56Speaker 00

  It's all A I.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  It is, and you're doing A I. But I'm saying, so you're telling me, were you naturally this way?

• 37:02Speaker 00

  No.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  Genetically, no?

• 37:04Speaker 00

  No, not at all. You gotta, oh, my gosh. I mean, my freshman season in college.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  That's, okay, no, no, no, no, no, you can't say that. Because everyone gains weight in college, but.

• 37:13Speaker 00

  No, no, well, I was gonna say, I came into college weighing a hundred forty five pounds.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Oh, so you're skinny.

• 37:18Speaker 00

  I was like, you could cough and I would fall over.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  Okay, but that's, when you're thin genetically, it's much easier to to build muscle. You weren't a fat kid, basically.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  No, no, that's, I guess that's true, yeah.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  You were not a fat kid?

• 37:31Speaker 00

  No, no.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Okay. But, because you are, you're ripped for, not to say like, listen, people always think that I'm A I or that I'm on like G, like H G H.

• 37:41Speaker 00

  Sarcastic.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Yeah, no, but no, but seriously, people are like, oh, there's no way you're forty, whatever. But, so you are on testosterone though.

• 37:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I've been, I mean, so I, and I can share all my labs with you. There's, there's no secrets.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  I know, it's not my, it's not my business.

• 37:56Speaker 00

  But I think it's an important distinction. This is why, because.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Were you low T?

• 38:00Speaker 00

  I was actually. So I was in, and I have been, went through a couple life, big life experiences. And as a result, I, I mean, my testosterone, among other things, really suffered. So I'd have to go back and look.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  What happened that you're, that what would happen?

• 38:21Speaker 00

  Well, where it really went sideways is we, we lost our first daughter. She, she passed away at, at birth and, or she was stillborn is how you say it. And.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  I'm so sorry.

• 38:37Speaker 00

  So believe it or not, actually, to your point, it was actually a pivotal, pivotal time in, in our lives. Not in a good way. I, so this comes to like food addiction, right? I, I never, I'd never thought anything of it. And, you know, that was an event in my life that was just like, just totally out of left field. Because like, I deal in a world as a surgeon, like calculated risk, you know? But it's controlled. You know what can happen when? And somehow you process that. But with child loss, it was out of left field. It was like, I, this is how crazy it was.

• 39:19Speaker 00

  I mean, obviously, I went to medical school and I didn't ever realize this could happen. I don't think I did. So, so it was just so far fetched that I was not at all prepared. And so I like did a nosedive into really deep depression. And in my therapy, you know, some people drink, I eat. And I, true story, I was going through like a Costco bag of Sour Patch Kids a day. Like just fists. And I was near diabetic when, when, like, when the dust kind of started to settle a little bit. We lost our daughter in, in August, August twenty ninth.

• 39:59Speaker 00

  And, you know, like the first three, four months was just so dark, so dark, you know? And I gained fifty pounds, give or take. My hemoglobin A one C was six point four percent. So like actually ate myself into diabetes. Six point five percent is the definition of diabetes.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 40:20Speaker 00

  Basically, right there. And so much of this conversation, my practice that we own now and we opened for me is, one, it's a mechanism to honor my daughter. Because like before that time, I was, I think it was very self deprecating, very self critical. But I was also critical of other people. I didn't have a lot of empathy. And I'm going to say this, I'll just be real. You know, someone is obese, oh, they're lazy, you know? So just these snap judgments, right? You don't know what someone's life experiences. You have no idea what's driving you. They may be radically different. I was radically different in six months' time. I mean, I just straight nosedive. So in that sense, I'm beyond grateful.

• 41:05Speaker 00

  It's a horrible experience, but like it taught me a lot about humility, about empathy. And now that's why I feel like I can connect more with people. Yeah, I deal with high performers, but that doesn't mean I don't deal with obesity and heart disease and everything else under the sun. But that reset for me was really the origins of the longevity lab today. Because I went through that and I'm looking around and I, it literally is like vivid for me. Wake up one day, just look in the mirror and go, what? What just happened? Like, I can't account for the last six months of my life. And so I pick up the phone, start calling my colleagues, right? Help, help me out, okay? And so this is, comes back to your testosterone question.

• 41:50Speaker 00

  I mean, my testosterone was like two hundred. It was just, everything just bottomed out. I was just a walking cortisol bomb.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  It's also because of your lifestyle, though, that you created. It wasn't because of like your, like if you went, if you just went back to like eating better and exercising.

• 42:06Speaker 00

  I don't disagree with that.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:07Speaker 00

  I don't disagree, but I want to comment on that because I want to be fair to the conversation. But in that time, I was like rock, rock, rock bottom. And I swear to you, I looked in the mirror and I couldn't account for six months. The, the saving grace for my life between my wife, between God, and then my son. My son was two years old and he is my, like, I can't even talk about it. He is just my, like my little rock, you know? And so like, you know, you have to get up every day because it's like this little guy.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  Need you.

• 42:39Speaker 00

  He still needs me. So anyway, long story short, got very unhealthy. And then I started reaching out to my, my colleagues and stuff like, hey, can you help me? What, what do you recommend and all stuff? It was like a black hole, you know? And I didn't know anything about social media, probably for the best. But the longevity lab was born out of my own personal journey. Just figure this out. I gotta figure this out. How do I get back on the horse? And like get back in the game and

• 43:05Speaker 01

  How long ago was this?

• 43:07Speaker 00

  So this was two thousand nineteen into two thousand twenty. So it's

• 43:11Speaker 01

  Six years?

• 43:11Speaker 00

  Six years ago. Yeah. Yeah. And

• 43:13Speaker 01

  You have two other, you have another

• 43:15Speaker 00

  A daughter.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:16Speaker 00

  A daughter. My, my, oh, man.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  How old is daughter?

• 43:19Speaker 00

  She's five.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Five.

• 43:21Speaker 00

  She's five. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, we just, we'll, we'll celebrate. My, my daughter, Emily, her seventh birthday, which is just mind blowing, right? It's like life keeps going.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 43:33Speaker 00

  This is all an aside, but it was really the impetus to try and figure this out. And then I can't really do anything halfway. So I started really geeking out on it. But as it related to my testosterone, totally agree that, you know, I have some radical lifestyle changes. I get on track with diet and nutrition. But the truth of the matter is, which I would say to any one of my clients, then I would argue this. The number one cause of hypogonadal, hypogonadism, low testosterone in men today is metabolic dysfunction. If you look at the impact of hyperinsulinemia, high insulin levels on testosterone production, insulin actually prevents testosterone production. It's the inhibitory.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  But why are all these young men on it? Like I'm, I'm hearing like thirty, thirty-three, thirty-four, thirty-five year old guys are like taking it.

• 44:21Speaker 00

  Right. Well, so, so here's, I mean,

• 44:24Speaker 01

  You just look really fit. That's why I thought so.

• 44:26Speaker 00

  So of course I have to be.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, no, no, no, no. I didn't mean, I was just teasing you a little bit. Yeah.

• 44:30Speaker 00

  No, I know. But, but that's the, the other thing, though, is, is all these, these stories and nerves. People just need to be more educated on what is real and what is not. And social media creates all these

• 44:42Speaker 01

  All these things.

• 44:43Speaker 00

  Bizarre worlds where is testosterone going to like make you really fit? No.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  No, well, it could also make you really fat.

• 44:51Speaker 00

  It can do a lot of things and it can drive you off the rails and you can go bald. But testosterone, when used appropriately, when used as a tool, a physiologic tool, which is where I maintain my levels. I mean, maintain my levels.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  What number do you have now?

• 45:06Speaker 00

  My most recent was like three twenty-five, which was way lower than I wanted to be.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  See, that's not very high.

• 45:12Speaker 00

  No, correct.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Very low.

• 45:13Speaker 00

  Correct. That's right. So I

• 45:16Speaker 01

  You need to kind of boost it up again. That's good.

• 45:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, but I, but I think, no, no, but it's a really important point because there is physiologic testosterone, no different than replacing a woman's estrogen.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Does, so if a man has a libido of three hundred, do they typically?

• 45:32Speaker 00

  Testosterone.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. I was gonna say that testosterone is that, does that, sorry. So if a man has a test, if their testosterone is below a certain point, does that affect their libido? Is what I wanted to ask.

• 45:43Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  So what level does a man have to be at?

• 45:46Speaker 00

  Well, let's say, let's ask a different question. At what level does a man's health become compromised? Actually, the risk of a heart attack go up? Actually, the risk of death? So we used to think of, everybody has in their mind testosterone. Oh, it's a bodybuilder thing. Oh, it's, it's just to get jacked and all stuff. No, actually, low testosterone is a health hazard. Much different conversation than we had in the past. Serum testosterone, total testosterone, less than two fifty, pretends a higher risk of heart attack. Upwards of a thirty percent increase in risk. So it's, it's a health risk. So this idea where we have to get out of this, you know, kind of dated antiquated mindset. Oh, that's the bro science. Oh, you're on roids. You're on.

• 46:30Speaker 00

  Okay, there are synthetic anabolic steroids. Okay, we can list them off and it's crazy that, that social media, it's a free for all now. You know who's getting hurt, by the way, are the sixteen year old boys, the eighteen year old boys that are seeing a grown man saying, hey, I got jacked. And they're listing off these absurd anabolic protocols.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  Well, do you know that kid, the look maxing guy?

• 46:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  Clavicular?

• 46:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  So he's a twenty year old kid and he's been taking testosterone, I think for five years.

• 46:59Speaker 00

  I mean,

• 46:59Speaker 01

  But that's what's, that's what's influencing all these young kids.

• 47:02Speaker 00

  Sure. Yeah, I know.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Right?

• 47:04Speaker 00

  I know. Cause I think, I thought you were gonna say, I, I think it was a Canadian bodybuilder. Some, some young guy recently died, like early twenties. There was this very popular bodybuilder on social media, but young guy. Had, I believe he had cardiac complications.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Really?

• 47:22Speaker 00

  But it's, it's a real thing, but we gotta separate

• 47:24Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah. So wait.

• 47:25Speaker 00

  Physiologic testosterone.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  Well, because the whole thing is, it's funny, if you go to a regular doctor and they take your blood, they take your biomarkers.

• 47:32Speaker 00

  Right.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  And they'll say, oh, you're normal.

• 47:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  Right?

• 47:35Speaker 00

  What does that mean?

• 47:35Speaker 01

  But like you're, when I'm, yeah, what does that mean?

• 47:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  So in your world, because you're so dialed in, what do you think, what do you think is a healthy place for a man to be test? With their testosterone?

• 47:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  And with their, with a woman is much different.

• 47:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. So the, the important thing to know is that it's, I think this comes this, but it's free testosterone. So everybody talks about total testosterone, which is pretty much irrelevant. Free testosterone, just with any hormone, hormones get bound to proteins. If they're, if, if my hormones stuck to a Velcro ball, for example, it can't go and attach to the receptor. So total testosterone is not that important, but free testosterone, the, a part that's available. For a male, my bias in my practice would be a free testosterone of fifteen to twenty. That, if you look at lab normals, is gonna be high normal. Okay?

• 48:33Speaker 00

  Now, for a man who, again, if I'm focusing on muscle growth phase.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  You think fifteen, twenty?

• 48:40Speaker 00

  Fifteen to twenty.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  Okay. And for a woman?

• 48:43Speaker 00

  For a woman, anywhere from two to five. It's very, and it can be higher. I have a couple of female clients, beautiful, feminine, rocking life, who have free testosterone's above five. They, and I mean, some would say like that, those same levels would be what we call virilizing levels. So people transitioning.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 49:06Speaker 00

  They, yeah. But, but that's why the numbers, this is the problem with the numbers.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:11Speaker 00

  Numbers only apply to a cross section of the population. It's an average, right? So there's gonna be highs and lows, but those aren't defined by performance output, which is the thing I look at. So libido, mental clarity, decisiveness, mood, immune health, muscle health, all these components that testosterone directly contributes to.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  So then, okay, so then why are all these young guys taking it? Why is, like thirty year olds and twenty year olds are on testosterone?

• 49:41Speaker 00

  Well, I think we know some of that answer, right? It is because it, yes, super physiologic levels.

• 49:48Speaker 01

  At three fifty, is your libido totally tanked?

• 49:50Speaker 00

  Not great.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Really?

• 49:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, no.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  I'm just asking seriously.

• 49:54Speaker 00

  I mean, I wouldn't say, I don't know about tanked. And by the way, hormone health is a lot more nuanced than when

• 49:58Speaker 01

  No, I know.

• 49:58Speaker 00

  It's not three hormones, but it's, it's precursors, it's, it's post products. It's, it's a lot to it, but I would say that, I mean, for a male, testosterone is the key driver of cognition on down. So libido, yeah, that's part of the equation, but it's not really a major part in my mind. If you came to me and said, I want testosterone for my libido.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  No, no, no, I know.

• 50:24Speaker 00

  I would say, well, let's push, push pause here. Let's talk about why are young men?

• 50:30Speaker 00

  There's two camps, okay? There are more and more young men who are, have low testosterone by laboratory analysis. So that's one group. Those people, I'll explain why, in my strong argument, they need treated. And there is a threshold to say, all the diet, exercise, it's realistically, it's, you're not going to get there in a meaningful amount of time. And so you're basically climbing Mount Everest, butt naked. Okay? Then there's another camp, which is the, kind of the performance camp where people have gone off the rails and it's all driven by social media, that we've actually normalized the conversation around anabolic steroids. Oh, yeah, just do you, you know?

• 51:12Speaker 00

  Oh, you wanna get jacked like me? I saw this guy, he's literally word for word, I keep trying to think of his using. He, he says, if you're a man over forty and you wanna look like me, you're similar physique, you have to take, and then he lists off five anabolic steroids. And the game hasn't changed.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  What did he make, what did he say?

• 51:32Speaker 00

  Trin, mass, I mean, he's literally, I mean, it is a crazy cycle. And he's, his message is, if you're a man over forty, you can't get like this without these. That's scary.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  That's super scary and it's so not true.

• 51:47Speaker 00

  It's completely untrue, right? But imagine who gets hit with that more? Is it the other forty year old male that buys his BS? No, it's the eighteen year old kid that goes, I kinda like to look like that now.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:02Speaker 00

  And now all of a sudden, you're hearing from an adult and there's no discussion. He said, you know, I wanna be transparent about how I got this way. So he listed off this whole stack, right? And I wrote a comment, I said, well, if you were being transparent, I'd like you to share your labs with us. I'd like to see how effed up your liver is. I'd like to do an echocardiogram and show how dilated your left ventricle, how thickened and dilated is. I'd like to look at your coronary arteries and see how much plaque you've built up. Cause that's real. Okay, we, we, we've known that for fifties, you know, origins of anabolic. So, so seventy years, this isn't new information. No, of course not. Why does that matter?

• 52:45Speaker 00

  Uh, well, because you're framing this as there's no downside, only upside.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  Is it true that once you start taking it as an injection, though, your body stops producing it on its own?

• 52:59Speaker 00

  No. It's all relative. And so this is the most important categorically, the most important part of the discussion, I believe, needs to center around the people that do actually, I would argue, need testosterone. The thirty-two-year-old executive who's been grinding for the family business for the last fifteen years, and yes, I'm talking about a client of mine, who is

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Thirty-two, you said?

• 53:22Speaker 00

  Thirty-two. Okay, so he's been going hard for the family business. He's an executive level, very, you know, very well-off financially, very successful, and he's also put on roughly eighty pounds of fat mass, pure fat. Okay, he comes and sees me, his total fat mass was seventy-nine pounds, okay? And his testosterone's two-eighty. Here's the thing, okay, I don't disagree that the most detrimental mechanisms for his health related to his testosterone are visceral fat and hyperinsulinemia, insulin in the bloodstream. But here's the thing, I totally agree that eliminating those two will allow his testicles to start functioning

• 54:06Speaker 00

  normally again. The problem is, how are you going to eliminate these two when you've got a testosterone less than three hundred, you get winded if you go to the gym for ten, fifteen minutes. You're at such a severe disadvantage. So the causal relationship between metabolic disease and low testosterone has to be acknowledged, but the mechanism of reversal, it's not snapping a finger. Obviously, he didn't get there in one day. He's not going to get out of it. But I use the analogy, I mean, Dumb and Dumber, right? Are you going to freaking summit Mount Everest butt naked without a sherpa? Is it possible you could do it? Sure, there's a chance. One in a trillion, one in a... So having someone

• 54:46Speaker 00

  who's so severely disadvantaged physiologically to do the one thing that will actually impact positively on his long-term health, which is build muscle, to me, that's insane. And I see this all the time, young men, I go up to people at the gym all the time. I see guys, you see guys that are working their butt off. You see plenty of guys that aren't. But there are guys I see all the time, working their butt, pouring sweat, they're obese, they are struggling, they are putting in the work. And I look at that person, I go, that is, I'm not saying it's right or wrong how they got to that point, but there's no way you're getting out of that.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Is it? I agree. I understand.

• 55:28Speaker 00

  Do you see what I mean?

• 55:29Speaker 01

  Yes, I do.

• 55:29Speaker 00

  And so in that case, whether you're twenty-eight, or fifty, or ninety, I don't care, at that point, yes, you have to do a biomarker analysis, it's not how you feel. But once you test, if that guy's free testosterone's three, four, five, okay, there's, literally, he does not have the signal to support muscle growth. So it is going to feel impossible because physiologically, he's so disadvantaged. But here's the cool thing, this is what people miss. I meet with that guy, and I tell him point-blank, yeah, we need to introduce an outside source of testosterone, your body's not doing it. But I fully anticipate, as we shift your body composition to a much more improved physiologic effect, so rapidly

• 56:11Speaker 00

  or markedly decreased insulin, get rid of the visceral fat, your testicles are going to kick back in, and we're going to be able to come back down on that testosterone. And so this gets to the question, am I on it for life? Absolutely not. No, it's part of a strategy, it's part of a bigger picture, it's a protocol, it's how we deliver care to optimize the individual.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 56:33Speaker 00

  Does that make sense?

• 56:34Speaker 01

  Yes, it makes sense.

• 56:34Speaker 00

  So it's not a, this is the misguided, yo, oh, once you're on it, you're... Yeah, for that twenty-five-year-old doing mass, tren, D-ball, testosterone, I mean, he's frying his testicles.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I understand what you're saying.

• 56:49Speaker 00

  Totally different scenario.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  Is there a biomarker that doctors are not looking at that is very important to kind of tell you your overall health?

• 56:59Speaker 00

  Fasting insulin, not hemoglobin A1C. Free, I mean, look at, look at a broad-based hormone. For a male, it would be free testosterone above all, because I see so many guys that get a total testosterone level, and it doesn't matter. It actually doesn't matter.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  It's the free testosterone.

• 57:14Speaker 00

  The free testosterone.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 57:16Speaker 00

  I think looking at biomarkers for genetic risk of heart attack, the one that has been missing for years is lipoprotein little a, LP little a, apolipop B. You have to be considerate of cholesterol's role in cardiovascular disease. Notice I say role, okay? So those tests are the ones that I think get left off. Yo, I see guys, LP little a is largely genetically conferred risk for heart disease, okay? Higher levels can translate to three to five times higher risk of a heart attack. This is the guy that's your golfing buddy that you play tennis with every weekend and drops dead in the grocery store, okay? So

• 57:59Speaker 00

  they, every doctor checks a lipid panel, that's standard.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, so what did you say it was, a lip-

• 58:04Speaker 00

  Lipoprotein little a.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  And why did you say? Because you're right, because I know a lot of these guys who look super fit, they play tennis, you know, every day, and they're dropping dead, dropping dead at forty.

• 58:15Speaker 00

  My lipoprotein little a, okay, is two-hundred-and-eighty, off the charts. My apolipop B, the strongest predictor that we have of what we sort of clot-forming capacity, my apolipop B is fifty-five. Very... So I have a genetic abnormality, if you will, that increases my lifetime risk of a heart attack markedly. So what does that mean? Well, the cool thing is, in the next probably year or two, Big Pharma is actually coming out with a monoclonal to actually treat, to actually eliminate this risk. But it's the risk, like, I could run ten miles a day, I could do all this stuff, and I'm still carrying a risk, a genetic

• 58:59Speaker 00

  risk for heart disease, okay? So that, that's why these data points become imperative. And sadly, in the United States, that is not, not anywhere close to standard of care.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  So what do you do for it? That if there's no medication for it now, what are you doing to make it better?

• 59:15Speaker 00

  Well, there are medications that can augment, and I'm considering, I'm not doing anything right now.

• 59:22Speaker 01

  Just watching it?

• 59:22Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  Where if you drop dead of a heart attack?

• 59:25Speaker 00

  Well, so there's, this is the difference, okay? So what we call genotype-phenotype. So I have a genetic risk, we know that's circulating in my bloodstream. But I also get a dynamic study of my heart called a Clearly AI scan that was totally clean. So the issue is, okay, I know there's a risk, but now we got to see, is that risk translating to a physical problem?

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 59:49Speaker 00

  So I don't have any plaque right now. So

• 59:51Speaker 01

  Ah, I got you.

• 59:52Speaker 00

  For me, it's a hard argument to say, oh, I should just take medications. To me, I see that as a necessity. That's me speaking as a physician. So with my client base, we do an entire workup, right? So biomarker analysis is one piece of the puzzle.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:10Speaker 00

  But someone who has an elevated risk, well, we still have to ask the question, has it actually translated to disease?

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:19Speaker 00

  Okay?

• 1:00:19Speaker 01

  So you gotta be very careful.

• 1:00:21Speaker 00

  And so this gets to, by the way, this comes back to the conversations around testosterone. Superphysiologic testosterone absolutely worsens the lipid, lipid profile.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  Right, so if you have really low testosterone, that will just increase the risk more.

• 1:00:35Speaker 00

  Well, it's the bookends. So we know observationally that low testosterone results in a higher risk, okay? Well, I shouldn't say it results, I want to be careful. We don't know that it causes, but we see the correlation, low testosterone, higher risk of heart attacks. We've made that observation, okay? With, as it relates to high testosterone, so now, again, this is the issue with bodybuilders. They're taking, I would argue, like, six, seven times what a physiologic dose would be. Point-blank, I take sixty milligrams of testosterone, okay? It's like, tiny, tiny, tiny little bit. Bodybuilders are talking

• 1:01:16Speaker 00

  about taking six-hundred to seven-hundred milligrams. Insane, okay? But at really high levels of testosterone, you see your lipid, because it's affected, affecting the liver, you see your lipid panel go off, totally off the rails.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:01:30Speaker 00

  So you have the, you have the observation that low testosterone, people have higher heart attacks, but then I know for a fact, if we crank your testosterone, it will negatively impact your lipid panel. So there is a spectrum, which is why I say all the time, you know, your friendly fitness influencer, they don't, they don't quite get the nuance, right? And yet they're telling, the craziest thing about Instagram is, you have non-medical providers giving medical advice, and they have no liability.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  No liability, that's exactly the problem.

• 1:02:07Speaker 00

  I mean, I see doctors getting pursued for various reasons, various claims, like you alluded to, the guys out-selling peptides.

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:02:15Speaker 00

  And, but if you're a fitness influencer, you can actually tell someone, no, you should take two-hundred-and-fifty milligrams of testosterone. That's not medical advice, that's prescriptive authority.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  A hundred percent, well, also-

• 1:02:26Speaker 00

  And then what are you going to do? So say you follow that advice, you take it, and you have some complication, right? Who's to blame?

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Nobody.

• 1:02:35Speaker 00

  You are.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  Well, no, but-

• 1:02:36Speaker 00

  Because you're the idiot that followed-

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  Well, besides myself, I'm saying, what am I going to do, sue them?

• 1:02:41Speaker 00

  Right, exactly. And what's the first thing they're going to say? They're going to laugh, they're going to go, why'd you take my advice? I'm not a doctor.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  I'm not a doctor, exactly. And then, and then you're like, kind of fucked after that point, okay?

• 1:02:50Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, there's a lot of that.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

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• 1:04:25Speaker 01

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• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  I have to ask you a couple more questions. We're going to do part two.

• 1:04:49Speaker 00

  I'm down.

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  Are you okay?

• 1:04:51Speaker 00

  These are all, no, you know, the whole reason I came out here is because this is the coolest thing about social media, to meet real people.

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:01Speaker 00

  I thought social media was just pure smoke and mirrors, and there's a lot. But then you meet very legitimate people and people who have a voice and connection with other people. It's wild. So like, my impetus to come out here is that this isn't like a medical or science podcast. This is like people just living their lives out there that are getting flooded with garbage, noise.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  I'm so glad that you came here.

• 1:05:27Speaker 00

  No, so that's why, like, I'd love to do it. Because this is where, this is the whole reason I got onto social media is, it's not to go back and forth with other doctors, but, but try to like, try to bring just a little sanity and

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  You're bringing a lot of sanity.

• 1:05:43Speaker 00

  Rational thought to the conversation.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  Good, because I have

• 1:05:46Speaker 00

  It's not cool, but

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  It is cool. You're, you're excellent. I'm so glad that we, that we got connected, or I connected to you.

• 1:05:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  Okay, wait, we got, there's so many things, so I'm gonna try to like, just kind of keep it to the things I really wanted you to talk about. The first one is grip strength. Right? There's, right? I need you, I need to talk about this because is, you told me it's a myth that grip strength actually predicts your longevity.

• 1:06:15Speaker 00

  No, I didn't say that.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  That's what you said.

• 1:06:18Speaker 00

  How dare you? No.

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  I said different?

• 1:06:20Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no.

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  They say, they say it wrong?

• 1:06:23Speaker 00

  Well, let me explain it this way. It's an absurd metric. It is irrelevant to

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  So how's that wrong?

• 1:06:31Speaker 00

  The human

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  Okay, so let me say, let me say it again.

• 1:06:34Speaker 00

  Because it's actually a scientifically measured fact. It is a metric that has been used to correlate

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  Can let me re-say it then, okay? So the scientific metric of checking somebody's grip strength is not an accurate way of checking somebody's longevity?

• 1:06:53Speaker 00

  No, it's not a worthwhile metric to trend. What's happened is the great Peter Attia, the great neurodivergent Peter Attia, who latches on to these, these numbers, and then just, just takes it to another level with his marketing team. Grip strength is a surrogate marker. It is a one way to measure strength. But what you're measuring in grip strength is you're trying to reverse engineer whole body strength. So I have people coming to me saying, well, what's the best way to measure my grip strength? Carry your kids in your arms? I don't know, do something practical. Grip strength is not going to prevent you from falling off a toilet and dying. The data is very clear.

• 1:07:36Speaker 00

  The mortality, the, the number of adults over the age of 65 who die within one year of a pelvic or proximal long bone fracture is a third. What is that saying? So if you fall and break your hip, one third of those people will be dead within one year. They go to a nursing home, they get pneumonia, they die. Okay? Why is that happening? It's because it's a reflection. Why did you fall is the question. You're unbalanced, you're uncoordinated, and you're weak. So when you do indeed compare grip strength to proximal lower extremity muscle strength, proximal lower extremities win every time, right? You don't, I don't care, you could have forearms the

• 1:08:21Speaker 00

  size of my torso, and it's not going to prevent you from falling, but weak quads will. So we need to be looking, so, so my, my, the trainer I swear by, a guy named Jeff Shute, is brilliant. We've been working on a functional performance longevity score. One of the workhorse exercises that we use is a walking kettlebell farmer carry lunge. Now that, so simply put, walking lunge, 50 meters, okay, unbroken, so it's a full step each time. Okay? Two kettlebells. So effectively, that's your grip strength metric.

• 1:09:05Speaker 00

  I'll give, pay homage to grip strength. But what you're measuring, think about what you're measuring there. You're measuring first and foremost, lower extremity strength, but you're also measuring balance, coordination, and mobility. Those are what'll have you falling off a toilet. And then a third of your peers are going to be dead. So we have to reframe, we have gotten so off the rails, and this is a reasonable criticism of longevity medicine, is you guys are just pulling stuff, guys is out of your ass. You're pulling, plucking data points. This was the Attia legend. If you saw the 60 Minutes special, he literally has a lady hanging from a bar. You really think that's going to prevent her falling off a toilet? It's moronic.

• 1:09:50Speaker 00

  It's truly moronic. What matters, so let's, so we lose logic. We discard logic for these cool numbers. But I need to have everything framed in the, in the form of what is actually going to move the needle for somebody. And by far and away, if you were going to do one activity in your lifetime to extend your health span and lifespan, it would be sit to stand movements. So it makes sense? So like, my grandfather, who passed away weeks before his 103rd birthday, his deficiency ultimately came to being able to go from a sitting to standing position. That's why he wound up in a nursing home.

• 1:10:31Speaker 00

  He lived 102 years on his own, and his muscles weakened. So if we prevent that from happening, you are actually by definition improving longevity.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  So doing a walking kettlebell lunge is the best exercise?

• 1:10:46Speaker 00

  So then, so, so yes, so our scoring system is based on the percent of your body weight that you can do. So we consider elite would be 1%, is 110% of your body weight. You try doing that with kettlebell lunge, phew.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  It's hard to do, you know what? Like, for whatever reason.

• 1:11:04Speaker 00

  It's so good, isn't it?

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  Yes, and those, even a walking lunge in itself is very difficult.

• 1:11:10Speaker 00

  Exactly. So my point is

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  It's such a great point. I love that.

• 1:11:14Speaker 00

  The criticism or critique around longevity medicine is people are just obsessing over numbers. And that's a fair critique. If you want to talk about grip strength, a dead hang? Do you know what single community that I'm aware of that actually tests dead hangs? It's the United States Marine Corps. Want to know why? It's because you could actually fall out of a helicopter and your life would depend on hanging.

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:11:38Speaker 00

  Okay, a 60-year-old woman, your life doesn't hinge. And the miss is that now people have gotten in their head, oh, I'm going to get bigger forearms, or I'm going to hang. No, it's a proxy for whole body strength, but we know very plainly proximal lower extremities, so glutes, hamstrings, quads, that complex is survivability.

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree.

• 1:12:01Speaker 00

  Because think about it, if you really had a bizarre scenario where someone's upper torso, chest, and upper extremities were relatively weak, and they had a really strong core lower extremity group, I would say that person's probably better off.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  No, I think that's a great point.

• 1:12:16Speaker 00

  You know?

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  And it's also common sense.

• 1:12:19Speaker 00

  That's, that's my point, is this is the critique against longevity medicine, is what happens when common sense goes out the door?

• 1:12:25Speaker 01

  Well, what I, what my grandmother would always say is, common sense isn't very common.

• 1:12:29Speaker 00

  Right. What happens when common sense isn't so common? Peter Attia becomes a longevity medicine expert. And so that's the criticism that I take every day. They're like, oh, you just made this name up. You just made this title. No, I poured myself into my craft. And what I've done different than anybody else I'm aware of, is it's all evidence-based, data-driven results to find. I actually keep the data and make decisions based off of it. It's not like hocus pocus, oh, well, you're probably going to feel better, oh, let's get some biomarkers once in a while. No, it's very data-directed, just like going back to the fast, continuous glucose, continuous ketone. That's the differential. That's the differentiating factor.

• 1:13:12Speaker 00

  Now, again, coming back to the women's health question, now we're going to have continuous estradiol. We're going to answer questions that have not been answered in the history of the world, because I don't know, what does, what happens with your estrogen minute to minute through your entire cycle? Truly, no one knows. That scientific evidence does not exist today. We're dealing with just throwing darts, plots on a line, knowing full well that a woman's hormones change through a 28-day cycle for years of, decades of their life. So that data, combined with ketone data in fasting? Yeah, I think in the next year, I'm going to be able to be talking on a level that's radically different than what

• 1:13:57Speaker 00

  we are today, but my gut sense, my, as a professional. I just, my gut sense, having treated so many women, it's not gonna really change the game. Because no different than a male who may be stressed from like a viral illness, they're not gonna enter ketosis. So maybe for some women in the luteal phase, they may not enter ketosis, but it's easy. You have a fail safe. Okay, if at 12 hours of someone's fast, this is how we do it, if by noon on the fasting day, you're still in a low grade nutritional ketosis level, for whatever reason, we stop. What's the point?

• 1:14:34Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:14:35Speaker 00

  You see what I'm saying?

• 1:14:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do, I see what you're saying.

• 1:14:37Speaker 00

  But now, when you have the data, you're making informed decisions.

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I understand.

• 1:14:43Speaker 00

  It's not, it's not like, oh, I don't feel well, or, oh, I feel dizzy. I don't, that's not, I'm sorry, you feel dizzy, but what's your glucose? And what's your ketone?

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:14:53Speaker 00

  So anyway, I digress.

• 1:14:54Speaker 01

  No, you're not digressing.

• 1:14:55Speaker 00

  But get rid of-

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  I just know that Ed's gonna kill me because it's Saturday, we're almost, we're almost at three hours, and I've got so many more questions for you.

• 1:15:03Speaker 00

  Okay, but I'm glad you asked the Gribstein question, because that is precisely the issue. It is literally common sense left the building.

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:15:09Speaker 00

  And you literally have a world-known 60-minute news anchor hanging from a bar, and no one looks at that and goes, this is stupid.

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  No, I know, I know, listen, you're preaching to the converted, my dear. Is there any other Mythbuster that you can tell us right now that drives you crazy?

• 1:15:26Speaker 00

  Hmm, that's a good question.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  There's so many, I'm sure.

• 1:15:31Speaker 00

  I know, I know, gosh. Some Mythbusters, hmm. I would say the reverse Mythbuster for the conversation we've had around peptides, is there are indeed peptides that are tried and true, proven, and ultra-high effective.

• 1:15:48Speaker 01

  Okay, tell me which ones?

• 1:15:50Speaker 00

  I would say the best studied class of peptides are the GHRH, or growth hormone, we'll call them just the growth hormone peptides, semolin, ipimolin, tesamolin. We understand the role of growth hormone in human longevity, okay? We can trigger a natural increase in production and letdown very reliably using these peptides. Those are peptides, but guess what the common thread is? Tesamolin exists as a pharmaceutical agent. It went through the entire FDA clearance process. There tends to be a connection, and so this is where, tesamolin's a workhorse. Motsi, that goes back to your original question, there is actually no evidence, and I've looked

• 1:16:35Speaker 00

  at Motsi strategically, at high doses, because for me, to say there's some positive benefit, it has to follow a logical train of thought. And if you're talking about mitochondrial optimizing peptide, which is Motsi, you would expect one of two, if not two, things to happen. One, fuel utilization increases. You can test that. It's called resting metabolic rate. So I looked myself, I did the study on myself, I did, every week, I did an indirect calorimetry, so a breathing test, mask on my face, checked my RMR, didn't change, did not change. So could there be something happening on a small scale? Yeah, but if it's not having a meaningful impact on the human, why are you taking it?

• 1:17:17Speaker 01

  But what about the difference between tesamolin and semolin?

• 1:17:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, huge, massive.

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  What's the difference?

• 1:17:22Speaker 00

  Potency, efficacy.

• 1:17:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:17:26Speaker 00

  So semolin, in my clinical experience, has little to no effect on serum IGF-1 levels. IGF-1, oh, this is, this is a really important thing to say, if you can't measure or quantify something, it's real hard to prove that something is or isn't working.

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:17:43Speaker 00

  So if you want to sell a product, pick something that can't be measured, because who's gonna tell you it didn't work?

• 1:17:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:17:50Speaker 00

  Brilliant, right?

• 1:17:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:52Speaker 00

  That's the fundamental issue. But look at all the peptides, okay, that are on the market, that do indeed work, that have been brought to market by Big Pharma. The common thread is, you can measure a difference. There is a organism level effect.

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  So tesamolin and semolin you can measure?

• 1:18:09Speaker 00

  Well, yes, so all the, so the way we measure, typically measure growth hormone levels, is in the form of IGF-1, which is a byproduct, it's a downstream effect, it's much more stable in the bloodstream.

• 1:18:21Speaker 01

  Okay, so is tesamolin-

• 1:18:22Speaker 00

  So I test your IGF-1 today, I put you on a tesamolin protocol. In six weeks, I test it again. I expect it to be 100 to 150% higher. So I can prove, we went from here to here. Now, we can get into-

• 1:18:35Speaker 01

  And semolin?

• 1:18:36Speaker 00

  Semolin, nominal effect, very nominal. Semolin's worthless.

• 1:18:41Speaker 01

  Okay, but you actually, didn't you just say this was that you like?

• 1:18:45Speaker 00

  No, I said that's the category, but within that category, semolin, which is the one that's being used a lot because the FDA didn't pull it from compoundings.

• 1:18:53Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:18:54Speaker 00

  So everybody went to semolin. Semolin's not worth, not worth the bottle it comes in.

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  So tesamolin is good?

• 1:19:01Speaker 00

  Tesamolin, by far and away, the most potent.

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  What is CJC 1295?

• 1:19:06Speaker 00

  So, CJC 1295 is often combined with ipimolin. Ipimolin is a ghrelin agonist, and CJC is a GHRH agonist. So it's, it's just, it's biological pathways. But CJC with ipimolin, that combo, is very effective. It is very effective.

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  Can you take that with tesamolin? Or is it either or?

• 1:19:28Speaker 00

  You can take, well, you can take whatever you want. If I was going to suggest someone do something, I have observed the greatest benefits with tesamolin and ipimolin combined.

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  Without the other part?

• 1:19:40Speaker 00

  Correct. Right, because CJC and tesamolin are the same mechanisms, it's just tesamolin's more potent.

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  Can you get bloated from this?

• 1:19:48Speaker 00

  Okay, so, growth hormone, let's talk about growth hormone, because again, this is where people go off the rails, and they're like, well, one helps with sleep, but, no, they don't, they just increase growth hormone. Growth hormone helps with sleep. But yes, growth hormone, as a large molecule, does result in some water retention. Everybody sees it.

• 1:20:06Speaker 01

  For how long?

• 1:20:07Speaker 00

  I, I've always experienced it as transient. Again, if you're moderating the dose and managing the actual titrating towards your IGF-1, it should be a matter of a couple weeks, but it's very nominal, the effect is very nominal, and it neutralizes very quickly. So probably someone who's never been exposed to tesamolin, which is the most potent, may experience a little, a little added water weight. More times than not, it's not visible, it's just, I get a call, and they're like, oh, I gained three pounds.

• 1:20:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:20:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, you retained a little water.

• 1:20:41Speaker 01

  But it goes away.

• 1:20:42Speaker 00

  Absolutely, 100%.

• 1:20:43Speaker 01

  Okay, now I gotta ask you about NAD.

• 1:20:45Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah, let's do it.

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  Okay, NAD, what's your, what's your take on NAD?

• 1:20:50Speaker 00

  So, first question, do I use it in my practice? Yes, I do. Injection-based NAD, so we'll say, subQ, intramuscular, IV, in that order, is, one, there is very much a systemic effect. Have you taken NAD?

• 1:21:06Speaker 01

  Yes, I take, I take TruNiagen, which is NR.

• 1:21:10Speaker 00

  Good, so, but have you ever done like a infusion?

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  I've gotten an NAD infusion, I've gotten the NR infusion by TruNiagen, which is like a-

• 1:21:21Speaker 00

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:21:22Speaker 01

  Have you know, did you know they have them?

• 1:21:23Speaker 00

  No, no, I didn't.

• 1:21:24Speaker 01

  Oh my god, you should have them at your, like, you should put them in your longevity labs.

• 1:21:27Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:21:28Speaker 01

  You know why? It's with NR.

• 1:21:30Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  And you know how an NAD drip takes an hour, two hours to go in?

• 1:21:33Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:21:34Speaker 01

  This one takes like 30 or 40 minutes.

• 1:21:36Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:21:37Speaker 01

  So it's like, it minimizes the time.

• 1:21:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, so NAD, if you've ever done an NAD infusion-

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:21:42Speaker 00

  You feel it. If you open that thing up-

• 1:21:44Speaker 01

  I get so nauseous, it's terrible.

• 1:21:46Speaker 00

  It's as close, as close as you come to having like a heart attack and a-

• 1:21:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's horrible.

• 1:21:50Speaker 00

  Respiratory thing.

• 1:21:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:52Speaker 00

  If you really open it wide.

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  Oh, it's so horrible.

• 1:21:55Speaker 00

  So bear in mind, what you're feeling systemically is very minimal to intracellular levels. NAD, and NAD+ and NADH are, they're an electron donor in the mitochondria, so that's inside a cell.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:22:13Speaker 00

  So, NAD in your bloodstream is irrelevant.

• 1:22:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:22:16Speaker 00

  It has to be in the cell. NAD cannot readily cross through a cell membrane into the cell, there's no clear carrier. So you probably get some ultra-small percentage, meaning, we have to give you a big slug of NAD to get a little bit in your cell. So I think what you're feeling and experiencing is largely the circulatory effects of NAD, but what matters from a longevity perspective, because NAD does two things. Again, it aids in the electron transport chain energy. Fuel to energy. And but the other piece is it's a cofactor in the DNA mismatch repair system, which is literally our bodies. It's wild. So every time a cell splits,

• 1:22:58Speaker 00

  you literally do copy your entire DNA to a new cell. So imagine as you age, that process keeps happening, more room for error. But we have a built in system called the the DNA mismatch repair system that NAD is a powerful cofactor that goes through literally. This is what makes the human body wild. Goes through and checks our entire genome before that cell gets the okay.

• 1:23:23Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:23:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's how. So that's where NAD. So that's kind of that longevity energy piece.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  So NR.

• 1:23:30Speaker 00

  So then then we talk about. So that's that's what NAD does in the cell. But the the tragedy is in the bloodstream doesn't count. So the it's actually the precursors that establish the highest level of intracellular concentration. So what you're saying NR nicotinamide riboside. There's some mixed data NR and NMN are the two precursors that are used commonly.

• 1:23:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:56Speaker 00

  I'm a bigger advocate for NR. I think there's more compelling data that NR is readily transported into the cell. And there's some data that says NMN is broken down to NR and then enters the cell. Bottom line, they both do in some effect.

• 1:24:11Speaker 01

  But isn't NR faster because you're missing that?

• 1:24:13Speaker 00

  Because you're correct, correct.

• 1:24:15Speaker 01

  Right. So then why would anyone take NMN?

• 1:24:18Speaker 00

  Well, the better question is why would anyone take NAD?

• 1:24:20Speaker 01

  But yeah, why would anyone take NAD?

• 1:24:23Speaker 00

  So I still use, like I said, I use it in my practice.

• 1:24:26Speaker 01

  Why?

• 1:24:27Speaker 00

  Because at the doses we're using, there is likely a nominal but more immediate effect on the cell.

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  But if you're taking it as a supplement, I take TruNiagen as a supplement.

• 1:24:38Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:24:39Speaker 01

  Is it as effective as taking it as a?

• 1:24:41Speaker 00

  It's more effective over time. But remember, you're building up intracellular levels. So my point is NR should be your threshold. That should be your baseline. I would argue, I don't see a ton of reasons why people, most people are not on NR, except maybe the cost.

• 1:24:59Speaker 01

  Do you take it?

• 1:24:59Speaker 00

  In our, yeah, oh, yeah. I love TruNiagen. I mean, that's that's the workhorse. Yeah.

• 1:25:04Speaker 01

  I love that. Okay, good.

• 1:25:05Speaker 00

  So in fact, they have that new immune formula. Have you seen?

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:25:09Speaker 00

  It gets it's vitamin C and NR and something else. Yeah.

• 1:25:14Speaker 01

  It's actually less. It's like, but I take.

• 1:25:16Speaker 00

  It's a smaller dose.

• 1:25:17Speaker 01

  It's a smaller dose. I take the TruNiagen Pro, which is 1,000 milligrams.

• 1:25:21Speaker 00

  Nice. Okay.

• 1:25:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that's why.

• 1:25:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, more is more from everything that I understand and have experienced personally, more is better.

• 1:25:28Speaker 01

  So it's not, your body isn't acclimate to it.

• 1:25:31Speaker 00

  No, again, you're taking a precursor simply because, once again, here we go to peptides.

• 1:25:38Speaker 01

  You lost.

• 1:25:39Speaker 00

  Well, no, it's just because you have to understand just biology at a baseline.

• 1:25:43Speaker 01

  Because people, everyone's injecting NAD.

• 1:25:45Speaker 00

  But they don't magically, people forget that a cell is airtight, watertight. If there's not a dedicated channel or transport mechanism, just because some things in your bloodstream doesn't put it in the cell.

• 1:25:57Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. So then you're, yes.

• 1:25:59Speaker 00

  Yeah. So NR, NMN, I don't feel strongly between the two. I personally use NR for the basis we just said. But that's a you're building level over time.

• 1:26:10Speaker 01

  Because if.

• 1:26:11Speaker 00

  It's not, you don't take NR today and your intracellular levels are peak.

• 1:26:15Speaker 01

  Does it? Is it really like the like an anti-aging workhorse?

• 1:26:20Speaker 00

  I mean, I see it as that for the express reason what I said, as it relates to DNA health.

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:26:25Speaker 00

  Because what ages us is the progressive breakdown of DNA. So cells become less and less functional or operational. So I would argue that having this potent cofactor that helps ensure accuracy of DNA reproduction is very much a longevity focus. And what I said earlier is the key, though. Remember, we said mitochondria, muscle metabolism. Anything that positively impacts on mitochondrial or improves the efficiency by definition is improving muscle metabolism and longevity. So that's the clearest link I have.

• 1:27:02Speaker 01

  Okay, I have a question for you, just to be counter devil's advocate a little bit. If it's if it's turning over your, if NAD is turning your cells over.

• 1:27:11Speaker 00

  It's not.

• 1:27:11Speaker 01

  It's not.

• 1:27:11Speaker 00

  No, no, no. No, no. It's, yeah, I'm sorry if I if it came across. No, it is a critical cofactor in ensuring that when your cells turn over, they duplicate, that the DNA is accurate. Because if you introduce DNA error, that is one of the main theories of a malignant transformation, is that DNA becomes corrupt, right? And ideally, DNA becomes corrupt and something like the mismatch repair system flags it. And that goes on to be a zombie cell.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yes.

• 1:27:46Speaker 00

  But if that cell line propagates, now that error is taken into a cell lineage, that is malignant transformation in the right setting.

• 1:27:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:27:57Speaker 00

  So that's where NAD plays a role.

• 1:27:59Speaker 01

  I got you.

• 1:28:00Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:28:01Speaker 01

  What about aminos? So aminos to help maintain lean muscle mass, to help with energy, what is your take on those?

• 1:28:11Speaker 00

  Well, so, well, okay, so let's say it this way. I mean, amino acids are the building blocks.

• 1:28:16Speaker 01

  Amino acids, yeah.

• 1:28:17Speaker 00

  The building blocks. So you have to look at a complete, incomplete, and essential forms of amino acids. A complete form of protein arguably contains all nine essential amino acids.

• 1:28:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:31Speaker 00

  Okay, so lean protein like like chicken.

• 1:28:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:28:34Speaker 00

  So your body's breaking that down into all these different. Let's keep in in mind here in this, because I think it goes with this conversation, like hydrolyzed collagen peptides. Okay, what's the role of collagen? So collagen is an incomplete protein source, right? It's only made up of three amino acids, proven actually to be beneficial for skin health and joint health. So if you're taking 22 grams daily of hydrolyzed collagen peptides for those reasons, I'm all for it. Problem is when people factor that into their daily protein intake, it's not the same. Collagen is used explicitly. I don't count it towards your daily intake.

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  But like, some people can't just eat that much protein a day. So was it a good idea to take an like an amino supplement?

• 1:29:21Speaker 00

  I think I, so I would say definitely yes. I can't.

• 1:29:25Speaker 01

  I brought you a bunch.

• 1:29:26Speaker 00

  Personally not. What's that?

• 1:29:27Speaker 01

  I brought you a bunch. I take these Keon aminos that are very good.

• 1:29:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So but that's an essential. So that's an essential amino.

• 1:29:35Speaker 01

  Do you like that though?

• 1:29:36Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:29:37Speaker 00

  So you remember there was a whole craze about BCAAs?

• 1:29:40Speaker 01

  Of course. Yes, of course. It was, but that's but that's useless.

• 1:29:44Speaker 00

  It's not useless. No, it's actually very intentional, very deliberate. But it pales in terms of whole body effect to essentials.

• 1:29:52Speaker 01

  That's true. So Keons is an essential amino acid.

• 1:29:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  And BCAAs are just a partial.

• 1:29:58Speaker 00

  Of essential.

• 1:29:59Speaker 01

  Of essential.

• 1:30:00Speaker 00

  So essentials, nine amino acids.

• 1:30:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:02Speaker 00

  And essential amino acids, amino acids your body can't make from other things. So you have to take it in.

• 1:30:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:30:09Speaker 00

  So that's the value of supplementing essential amino acids. I use essential amino acids around training times most specifically and largely because of the concentration of leucine.

• 1:30:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:22Speaker 00

  So leucine, as the leucine valine, right? Yes. So leucine is the most critical not, let's say it, let me think how to say this. It's the most critical, definitely the most critical, most anabolic amino acid. That's how I'll say it. It's the most potent anabolic amino acid. We think of anabolic effects of glucose through insulin. But leucine actually is a potent stimulator of insulin. Did you know that?

• 1:30:48Speaker 01

  Yes, I did. I did.

• 1:30:49Speaker 00

  This is the problem, by the way, go back to fasting real quick. The fatal error in fasting is essential amino acids. Some people have put out there, they're like, oh, yeah. You know, you have your caffeine, your water, you can have essential amino acids. No, absolutely not. No, essential amino acids will kick you out of. That's why I actually avoid on a post fast day. We're going to do a whole session on this. Okay?

• 1:31:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:09Speaker 00

  You promise?

• 1:31:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I promise.

• 1:31:11Speaker 00

  Because this is the, this is the crux. But leucine, so a whole protein source, I want you to avoid on your post fast day until later in the day. Why? Because you can take, so bone broth is my workhorse for post fast day. It allows you to actually extend out your ketosis.

• 1:31:29Speaker 01

  Oh my God, we didn't even do this part.

• 1:31:30Speaker 00

  I know, I know, I know, I know.

• 1:31:31Speaker 01

  Come back. You're gonna have to come back. He's gonna kill me, this guy.

• 1:31:35Speaker 00

  Well, it's probably killing me first.

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:31:37Speaker 00

  Poor Ed.

• 1:31:38Speaker 01

  Oh, she's poor.

• 1:31:40Speaker 00

  We're gonna give, we're gonna give Ed like a gift card after today.

• 1:31:42Speaker 01

  I'm telling you, first of all, I didn't even, we didn't finish that whole thing.

• 1:31:45Speaker 00

  I know, I know. So that I was just, that's the other, that's the.

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  Can you come back next week?

• 1:31:51Speaker 00

  55,000 foot view of fasting. But it's pre fast, walk after that last meal, walk as much as you can on the fasting day. But then again, we break our fast with bone broth. That's what I would tell anybody who's out there fasting, regardless of duration.

• 1:32:03Speaker 01

  Okay, finish this.

• 1:32:03Speaker 00

  Always break with bone broth. But it goes back to the essential amino acid conversation. Because bone broth is also an incomplete source of protein. It lacks leucine. Okay? If you consume leucine, I mean, you can, I can order you a tub of leucine and you can do the experiment. You consume just pure leucine, you will interrupt ketosis. You will. Because leucine triggers insulin.

• 1:32:27Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 1:32:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. So leucine stimulates muscle protein. The common, ah, it's just, this is why it's, yeah, we need, we need to do like a six part series.

• 1:32:37Speaker 01

  We do.

• 1:32:37Speaker 00

  Because this is all, and I know people hear this stuff and they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is just all, all nerdy. But I swear to you this.

• 1:32:45Speaker 01

  No, no one's saying that. I promise you.

• 1:32:46Speaker 00

  But no, but when I make the point, I make this point to my clients, I swear to you, if you understand why you're doing something. You're much more likely to do it over time. I'm convinced of that. If I tell you, do this, this, this, and this. One, you're probably going to forget.

• 1:33:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:33:04Speaker 00

  Because you know, there's no meaning to it.

• 1:33:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:06Speaker 00

  You're just following a rule. But if you understand why, then so why, why is my fasting success? Someone asked me this. Well, if you're a real advocate for fasting, what percentage of your clients are successful in completing fasting or a full protocol? Literally, it's 100%, 100% across the board. Every single one of my clients, by the end of their, their year partnership, will have adopted fasting as a lifestyle move. It's, it's purely, it is the most potent longevity tool. So again, I could take 20 peptides that could work, probably don't. I could take all these pills or I could just fast. I see all these posts and like, take this, this, this, and this. And here's my stack for this and blah, blah, blah, blah.

• 1:33:50Speaker 00

  And my comment always is, or you could fast.

• 1:33:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, my God.

• 1:33:54Speaker 00

  How crazy is that? You could do all this. No, no, it's not free. You actually make money fasting.

• 1:34:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, you make money fasting.

• 1:34:01Speaker 00

  And by the way, last thing I'll say about fasting, the most freeing thing you can do in your life is fast. Because you never realize, and this is when I was sharing with you my personal journey. You never realize how much time you spend in a given day focused on food until you don't eat.

• 1:34:17Speaker 01

  I know. So true. That is fascinating.

• 1:34:20Speaker 00

  And so people are like, so on your fasting day, you know, we try to do three movement sessions. People are like, where am I going to come up with three hours? Just don't eat. If you don't have to plan where you're getting your next meal, you don't have to, to doordash it. You don't have to run this way. People don't, we don't realize, this is a crazy thing, how much time as Americans we spend in food-related activities.

• 1:34:43Speaker 01

  Of course, because this is how we socialize. This is how we emotionally like feel our feelings.

• 1:34:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:34:49Speaker 01

  And it's also like, it's like, it's like, it tastes good. Like it's actually.

• 1:34:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:34:55Speaker 01

  And like, it's like, it's a, it's a, it's like a, it's like, what do you call it in life? It's like a, like a joyful thing to do, I suppose.

• 1:35:05Speaker 00

  I totally agree.

• 1:35:06Speaker 01

  And all, and I should also say, like, certain like cultures dominate around, like I'm Jewish. So like, that's how we like socialize and connect.

• 1:35:15Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:35:15Speaker 01

  That's like an intimate thing we do. You know what I mean? Like it's, you're taking away the element of living when you don't eat. To me, you're German, you don't know. That's why, this is like, you're German, you don't care.

• 1:35:26Speaker 00

  I'm just, I'm just a practical guy.

• 1:35:28Speaker 01

  You're all about efficiency.

• 1:35:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:35:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, food is fuel and efficiency. I'm about like eating and enjoying it.

• 1:35:35Speaker 00

  I see that. Yeah, no, no, that's totally fair.

• 1:35:37Speaker 01

  It's a, it's also like a, a sign of like, what do you call, ah, what's the word? When you cook, it's like a, it's, it's, I'm, I'm, I'm missing three hours.

• 1:35:47Speaker 00

  I get, no, I get what you're saying, though. It is, it is, it's, it's, and I don't discount that.

• 1:35:52Speaker 01

  Does your wife eat?

• 1:35:54Speaker 00

  Yes, yes, she, yeah, no, she starves. We have her on.

• 1:35:59Speaker 01

  Listen, you don't know.

• 1:36:00Speaker 00

  We have a five calorie diet.

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  Does she also feel like food is fuel?

• 1:36:04Speaker 00

  No, I think she looks, yeah, food, I think she's, would be more aligned with what you're saying. More, more, but, but the only catch there that I would just say, just pure and simple, is whether or not I'm eating, I relate this more to alcohol consumption. Whether or not I'm drinking, you know, it really actually doesn't bother people as much as we think it will. Whether or not you're also drinking with them. If you want to drink, be my guest.

• 1:36:29Speaker 01

  By the way, I don't give a shit about that. Number one, I don't drink, though. I think drinking is like the worst thing you can do for your body composition, for aging, for your health, for your sleep.

• 1:36:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, cancer, cognition.

• 1:36:41Speaker 01

  Everything. I think alcohol is by far the worst. When people always say, oh, you're, you know, you must be on something. I'm like, actually, I'm actually off something. I, I haven't had a drink for 30 years. Like I've never been a drinker and even in college, I never liked the alcohol. I've been lucky that way.

• 1:36:59Speaker 00

  Yep, I agree.

• 1:37:00Speaker 01

  Because I've never liked the taste of it.

• 1:37:01Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:37:02Speaker 01

  But I think alcohol ages you in, like an exorbitant amount.

• 1:37:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh, the scientific evidence is very clear. And the, the horrific attempt at justifying it that like the, the TIA crowd does, which is, oh, well, social connection is a powerful influencer of longevity. And you need alcohol for social, I'm like, whoa.

• 1:37:24Speaker 01

  Why do you need alcohol?

• 1:37:26Speaker 00

  Went, but see, here's my question to you. Why do you need food?

• 1:37:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I knew you were going to say that.

• 1:37:31Speaker 00

  It's just a question. It's not, it's not a right or wrong thing.

• 1:37:34Speaker 01

  But listen.

• 1:37:35Speaker 00

  It's just something to think about.

• 1:37:36Speaker 01

  But I agree, like, because that was the word I was looking for earlier, like food is a social, like a social

• 1:37:41Speaker 00

  Connector.

• 1:37:42Speaker 01

  lubricant or connection?

• 1:37:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:37:44Speaker 01

  Okay, because like you have, like you go on dates, you have date night, you have luncheon. I'm going to go for lunch. You're right. What I do a lot is I go for walks with people. I have all these like non-negotiables in my life. Like I don't, it's too mild.

• 1:37:55Speaker 00

  See, all the things you do without, and that's the gap for general American population is. And that's why, you know, people being intentional about movement seems so stupid to say.

• 1:38:09Speaker 01

  It's so stupid.

• 1:38:09Speaker 00

  But it's only because we live in a society where.

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  Jonathan, you don't even realize, I would, and now I would see why.

• 1:38:15Speaker 00

  Ed's all in the pool.

• 1:38:16Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:38:20Speaker 01

  No, what I was going to say is, I sent you over a text. I'm like, yeah, we can have lunch after or something. You didn't respond to that. And then now.

• 1:38:26Speaker 00

  I'm sorry, yeah.

• 1:38:27Speaker 01

  No, no, but now I know why, because you don't eat food.

• 1:38:29Speaker 00

  Well, just, just at, at, at intervals.

• 1:38:32Speaker 01

  Walk to coffee at intervals.

• 1:38:33Speaker 00

  At intervals.

• 1:38:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:38:34Speaker 00

  But it doesn't, it, I, I think you.

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  No, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter now because it's already 100, it's like 100 o'clock. But, but okay, wait, we had to wrap this because Ed probably did.

• 1:38:45Speaker 00

  We got to get the pulse check for Ed.

• 1:38:48Speaker 01

  It's been like three plus hours.

• 1:38:50Speaker 00

  If I do come do another one, Ed's probably going to see me and be like swearing under his breath.

• 1:38:55Speaker 01

  It's actually okay to do three and a half hours. It's just probably not the greatest on a Saturday when he, you know what I mean? Because I don't really care, but he's probably like really pissed. Okay, anyway, I will get Ed a gift card, actually. Jonathan, this is part one of a podcast. We're going to do like another one.

• 1:39:13Speaker 00

  I'd love it.

• 1:39:14Speaker 01

  Super soon. And when can you come back?

• 1:39:16Speaker 00

  Oh, man, we're going to have to, we're going to have to figure it out.

• 1:39:20Speaker 01

  When do you think you can come back?

• 1:39:22Speaker 00

  I'm like on the spot this moment. I probably going to be, be a few weeks. I've got, I've got.

• 1:39:27Speaker 01

  You're okay.

• 1:39:27Speaker 00

  Toronto coming up, I got Argentina coming up. We got a lot.

• 1:39:31Speaker 01

  It's okay, don't worry, I'm leaving town too. We can do it.

• 1:39:33Speaker 00

  No, we, we will, I would love to, and I will say this just outright for your audience. Like fire, fire the questions away. I mean, I think there's so much opportunity to improve upon a lot of the assumptions that exist. And there, the thing I stress is, it's not about right or wrong. I get that the algorithm favors controversy and really extremes, but the truth lies in the nuance. And if we simplify down to things that move the needle most.

• 1:40:04Speaker 01

  Yes, I agree with you.

• 1:40:05Speaker 00

  Am I critical about all these different stacks and biohacks? No.

• 1:40:09Speaker 01

  What moves, what moves the needle most is movement.

• 1:40:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, 100%.

• 1:40:13Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:40:13Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:40:14Speaker 01

  What's the second thing? Sleep?

• 1:40:17Speaker 00

  Sleep. Sleep is foundational. If it's, if it's off, and I'll go so far as to say this, my clients know this to be true. Do what you have to do to get quality sleep. What I mean by that is if it requires a pharmaceutical agent for you to get quality sleep, quality sleep is the metric.

• 1:40:33Speaker 01

  What do you think is more important, sleep or movement?

• 1:40:36Speaker 00

  Ooh, ooh. If it, if it really was one against the other, I'd say movement. Movement is, is way more impactful for metabolic health.

• 1:40:46Speaker 01

  I think so too.

• 1:40:47Speaker 00

  But sleep.

• 1:40:48Speaker 01

  That's a controversial one.

• 1:40:49Speaker 00

  Is what people, and again, deal, the niche I sort of practice in, in my, my practice, high performers. That's the name of the game.

• 1:40:55Speaker 01

  A hundred people are both wearing our same thing.

• 1:40:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, and the, the commonality between high performers, high output individuals is the wheels are always going. So I would say most consistently, most common issue I see with clients that's correctable is sleep, hygiene, sleep architecture.

• 1:41:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:41:12Speaker 00

  That's it. That's where it's at.

• 1:41:14Speaker 01

  That's it, okay. This is, you guys, it's Dr. Jonathan Schoeff. He is, as you can see, a fountain of information. This has been very informative. Go follow him. We're going to do another part two, hopefully maybe a part three.

• 1:41:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:41:27Speaker 01

  Uh, it's been like, what, three hours plus? But.

• 1:41:30Speaker 00

  It doesn't feel.

• 1:41:32Speaker 01

  I, I can keep on going. I've got great endurance. We can go for another hour.

• 1:41:36Speaker 00

  We just got to find Ed.

• 1:41:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, we got to find Ed. Okay, guys, if you have not subscribed, by the way, to this podcast, I should have said this at the beginning, please subscribe. Um, it really helps with everything and give me some feedback on stuff you like to hear, things that you, you've been, you know, you want more information on, less information on, and everything in between. So thank you for listening. Thank you for coming to the podcast, Jonathan.

• 1:41:59Speaker 00

  A pleasure. Thank you.

• 1:42:00Speaker 01

  And we'll see you soon. Bye bye.