Pod Insights Growth Think Tank Scaling a People-Centric Business with Max Friar at Calder Capital About this episode In this episode, I sit down with Andrea Tarrell, CEO of Sercante, to explore how Scaling without Ego transforms growing companies into resilient, purpose-driven teams. Sercante, ranked No. 2,970 on the 2024 Inc. 5000 list, has built a culture of excellence without hierarchy overshadowing results. We dive into how Scaling without Ego means empowering others, staying adaptable, and ensuring decisions are made for the good of the business — not individual ambition. Andrea shares real-world leadership practices that foster trust, humility, and team ownership during periods of rapid growth. If you're looking to expand without losing what's at the heart of your success, this conversation about Scaling without Ego is a must-listen.
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0:32 Speaker 01 So one of our core values is called rule number six, which we stole shamelessly from a book called The Art of Possibility. But rule number six is kind of our shorthand for don't take yourself so goddamn seriously. And it's really this concept of like, you love the work that you do. Like you play the game, you win the game, like you love the work, but you're not in your head about like, about yourself. And you're kind of taking yourself out of the equation and just focusing on doing the thing that needs to be done.
1:03 Speaker 02 Welcome to Growth Think Tank. This is the one and only place where you will get insight from the founders and the CEOs of the fastest growing privately held companies. I am the host. My name is Gene Hemmott. I help leaders and their teams navigate the defining moments of their growth. Are you ready to grow? Today, we talk about scaling without ego. Ego is one of those interesting things that you want to make sure that when you hire people, that their view of themselves is not going to be overwhelming for the culture. I know we've all been in that moment when we brought someone onto the team and they've been a big personality. And maybe they're really smart, maybe they're really driven and ambitious, but sometimes that turns into toxicity.
1:47 Speaker 02 And so you want to make sure that if this is important to you, you can create a culture where people with ego are not going to be allowed in, especially the kind of ego that really gets in the way of collaboration and trust and transparency and really working together to solve problems. Today, we have the founder and CEO. Andrea Terrell, she is with Circante. They are a tech services company. They do sales, marketing, automation, AI, all things. I think there's one of their special partners is Salesforce, just to put that into context. Andrea and I talk about this scaling without ego and why it's such an important factor in the growth of their company. They've been growing fast,
2:32 Speaker 02 they've been hiring people, and as you hire more people, sometimes people sneak in with bigger ego than the culture can manage. And she talks about how the culture self protects itself, why that happens, and really what it looks like. And you will find out a lot about today's episode about scaling without egos. I think a lot of CEOs could definitely use this inside their values list, but she puts it into a different way. I think I find it a little bit funny. So lean into today's episode, Scaling Without Ego. My name is Gene Hemmott. I'm a CEO coach. We do executive coaching. We do manager coaching and leadership development in fast growth companies. So if your company's in growth mode, if your company is reaching new levels and a
3:15 Speaker 02 leadership model that used to work is no longer working, then I invite you to a free training that we have to see if you can learn the new principles of leadership. All you have to do is go to training.corelevations.com. You will find in there the mistakes that people often make in scaling their company. And you will also find the playbook, the five steps that are absolutely necessary for you to create a business that's a legacy-driven business, one that runs without you and creates the kind of growth without you always having to pull it along. Just go to training.corelevations.com, sign up for free today. Now, here's the interview with Andrea. Hi Andrea, how are you?
3:52 Speaker 01 Doing well. Thanks for having me on your podcast.
3:55 Speaker 02 Well, we're going to have a great conversation about scaling without ego, which is a challenge for a lot of companies and CEOs. So this can be an interesting topic. Tell us about your company, Circante.
4:06 Speaker 01 So Sir Kante, we are a tech services provider. We specialize in sales, marketing, and customer success. Basically, anything you need to kind of be the growth stack that fuels the expansion of your business, that's something we can support.
4:20 Speaker 02 And you are primarily aligned with Salesforce, is that right?
4:24 Speaker 01 We do a lot of great work with Salesforce, yeah. So a lot of CRM implementations, marketing automation, data and AI. Those are, those are kind of our bread and butter service areas.
4:35 Speaker 02 Well, you mentioned the buzzword of the century, if you will, but AI. How are you guys leveraging AI right now as your company continues to scale?
4:43 Speaker 01 So we are all, all in on it internally to drive efficiency, to help our teams work smarter, not harder. And with clients, we've, we've implemented over 50 agent force and AI projects. So helping look for steps kind of in that growth process that can be automated or assisted with AI.
5:04 Speaker 02 I think a lot of people are afraid of what might be happening. I also have gone through those dark webs of is AI going to replace all these jobs and these entry level jobs? And I've kind of gotten to the point where now I'm like, it's going to be a huge tool when you know how to use it. And those that resist the tool will probably be left behind. Those that are willing to adopt the tool will be able to get more out of it and be able to have opportunities inside of our companies. Do you see it differently?
5:31 Speaker 01 No, I agree 100%. And I think on the question of like, is it going to take jobs? I think most of us who are, who are find ourselves gainfully employed, like your to do list is longer than you can possibly handle. So honestly, like my, my frame of reference on it is like, bring on the AI, like let them get to the things I can't get to, let them take the busy work off my plate that I just need to crank through to get, get to the things I really want to work on. There's plenty of things that need doing that, that AI can help us with.
5:59 Speaker 02 I want to give you one last question. You've been working in sales and marketing. What is the biggest mistake that your company kind of comes in and addresses when you're working with your ideal clients?
6:09 Speaker 01 Uh, you probably wouldn't expect this answer from a tech provider, but the, the mistake is expecting that tech is going to fix everything. So like buying a tech solution or buying a tech product and assuming that like that's going to be the thing that fixes the problem. More often than not, what the tech does is it reveals a part of the process that hasn't really been thought through or a team that's not performing. So, um, something that we do a little differently compared to others in the space is we try to pair equal investments on the people and process side with the tech, um, so that you actually see the, uh, the results of what you're implementing.
6:46 Speaker 02 That is a little different than I expected, uh, but I also know that most companies over index on things that are not people. They'll focus on profit, they'll focus on process, they'll focus on product, technology, automation. Whereas if they just had better people skills and better leadership, things would start to work out better. Um, and so today we're going to have a good conversation with you about scaling without ego. Um, where did this come from, from you before we dive in too deep?
7:15 Speaker 01 Um, so one of our core values is called rule number six, uh, which we stole shamelessly from a book called The Art of Possibility. But rule number six is kind of our, our shorthand for don't take yourself so goddamn seriously. And, uh, it's really this concept of like you love the work that you do, like you play the game, you win the game, like you love the work, but you're not in your head about like, about yourself and you're, you're kind of taking yourself out of the equation and just focusing on doing the thing that needs to be done.
7:47 Speaker 02 I love it. I have not heard this before. So, um, how does it play out across the organization?
7:52 Speaker 01 So I think something that, that I personally know that I've struggled with, and I think a lot of like tech workers maybe, maybe could relate to this. But you know, like we evolved from like early humans out in the wilderness, being chased by woolly mammoths and saber tooth tigers and whenever kind of prehistoric creature there was. And sometimes at work you get this feeling of just like, like everything feels so escalated and intense and you're like, I have to get this done if I don't. Finish this last thing like the world is going to come crashing down. But if you pause and like, think about what you're actually doing. In most cases, it's like you're updating a PowerPoint deck. You're sending an email. You're having a conversation with another white collar worker who isn't starving or solving for world peace.
8:37 Speaker 01 Or whatever, what have you. That's not to say that the world is that the work isn't important. It's just like the feeling and the the mindset that we bring to it. We can relax the intensity a little bit and we'd probably manage to get more done. Um, so that that's kind of the driving ethos that's behind that.
8:55 Speaker 02 I love it. You know, in order for us to talk about scaling without ego, there had to have been some run in with ego. As your company was scaling, was this from inside the company, outside the company? Or am I just projecting here?
9:08 Speaker 01 Honestly, I I've I've been, I've had, I've worked with all types over my history. And there absolutely were a few people who did great work, but like their ego was like a mile wide. And the team would sort of like tiptoe around them like, okay, like, we're going to make this change. But like, don't tell Steve because he's going to freak out. Or you're really going to have to like, like pitch it to so and so in a certain way and make it seem like it was their idea. And there, I mean, many organizations depend on a lot of that politicking and like tiptoeing around egos. And what I wanted to create at Serkante was a a environment where you you can't get to zero on that. But like as close to zero as we can get where we're just focused on doing good things.
9:52 Speaker 01 Supporting each other, appreciating each other for being whole humans and like showing up to do the work. Uh, and not as obsessed with ego or status or hierarchy or the politicking that you see in a lot of larger organizations.
10:07 Speaker 02 Now, we've been talking about ego and Andrea said that it's like walking on eggshells around certain people. Now, we've probably had this maybe in our personal lives, but we've also had this in our work lives. Where some people are fragile and some people have to be coddled in a way. And I get, this gets to be pretty dangerous because over time, people resent you. We're allowing that to be. And what I've noticed is when leaders are strong enough to have the tough conversations. I wrote a book about it. We talk about it inside this, this interview at different times. But I want to share with you, How to Have Tough Conversations is a really critical book for you. If you feel like you're walking on eggshells with anyone in your business.
10:48 Speaker 02 And if you really want to be a better leader, you want to be able to address that feedback early and often with the right tough conversation. You can buy it wherever you buy books. How do you have, How to Have Tough Conversations is the book for you if you are struggling in this area. Now, back to Andrea. You started off with values and, you know, I've never knocked values. But I can tell you, my first time being an entrepreneur, we didn't think about values. From 2000 to 2010, it wasn't a common part of the structure, like your business plan and your marketing plan and, you know, finding all those things. Values has been one of the things, though, as I've created this podcast over 10 years, comes up a lot. And I'm just kind of curious, usually it comes up inside of the hiring where you're making sure that people fit the values.
11:32 Speaker 02 I would imagine that's a part of your process is make sure that you guys do this. But when you tell people your rule number six, don't take yourself so damn seriously. Do they chuckle in the meeting or do they, how do they respond when you say that's, that's part of our values?
11:45 Speaker 01 Um, honestly, we, we've had a couple of people be like, that, that isn't for me. Like I, I do have an ego and I'm proud of it. Like I'm proud of the, the recognition that I get and like status is very important to me. And we've had a few people opt out of the interview process as a result. We've had a few people say that and say, okay, but, but I still want to be on your team. So like, let's see this through. And honestly, like a few of those folks, we, we shouldn't have hired them. Like it, it was a cultural mismatch and they recognize that like, that's, that's not really how they operate. And it's really important to how we show up and that kind of mismatch sometimes is hard to, hard to resolve.
12:22 Speaker 02 I, I bring that up because maybe the people listening in here, they, they understand values are a big part of, of company, probably. Hopefully that's not news to, to anyone listening here. But when you interview people and they feel like in their gut, you feel like they don't align with it. What I'm hearing you say is it's better to You know, send them on their way to find someplace they would be better off than to try to make them fit into something that they're not.
12:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, a hundred percent because the the organization just like rejects it. Like in in subtle ways, like you start noticing like language that's different or things that don't fit. Or people just don't respond to them in the right way. So every time I've ignored my gut on that, we've we've come to regret it.
13:04 Speaker 02 The organization rejects them. I I don't want to put words in your mouth, but this is one of the concepts that the right culture protects itself. They don't allow people to persist and they will be willing to have sort of those tough conversations. Uh, I I wrote a book about tough conversations, as you know, um, and I'm not trying to sell books here, but deeper into this, once we've taught people the framework, we we teach a peer-to-peer accountability as a way that that organization protects its culture by not allowing people that don't fit. Is that what you're talking about?
13:36 Speaker 01 Yes, yeah, and like leaning into tough conversations is also something that culturally I've tried really hard to encourage. We don't get it right a hundred percent of the time. There's occasionally, there's things that it's like, okay, somebody just needs to say that part out loud. But in general, like, I think our team is really good at giving each other feedback. And if something's not working, like saying the hard thing out loud and like holding space to move past it, even if it's uncomfortable for everybody involved. Um, and that also is a is a bit of a culture shock for people who aren't used to that environment. They're like, wow, every everybody has a lot of negative things to say. The the way that we don't, we interpret that kind of internally at Serkante is like, we're just, we're speaking the truth.
14:18 Speaker 01 And like shining a light on an issue is the first step to moving past it. And so I I think it can actually be a really positive cultural thing if if we leverage that in the right way.
14:28 Speaker 02 I'm gonna grab my book here because I'm gonna read this. I I had Seth Godin give me a a blurb on the back. And he said something that really aligns with what you're talking about. If you're not willing to talk about it, how can we hope to make things better? This tactical, hands-on book is a great place to begin and share it with your team. Um, so Seth Godin was really kind enough to write that in there and and it, not that I'm trying to sell books, but I I think organizations, if you've got egos, which most, most of them do. Then it really can play havoc on the rest of the team's performance. And when I've seen those egos that don't fit get exited, everything around the culture, you know, gets better, people can breathe and they can kind of like, why did it take so long?
15:13 Speaker 02 Have you had those experiences?
15:15 Speaker 01 Oh, a hundred percent. Every time I've been like really wrestling with like a, can I make it work with this person? And do I need to let this person go? How's the team gonna react if we like part ways with so and so? Every single time I finally like toughened up and made the call and had the hard, the hard conversation, it's like a breath of pressure. Teams like, like, okay, we saw it coming a mile away. Why did it take you so long? And I, I always wanna like give people a chance and a second chance and a third chance and like really give them runway to like shine. But, but there are times where it's the ego's a mismatch, the culture fits a mismatch. And, and at some point you just have to move, move past it.
15:54 Speaker 02 Now, let me break in here for a second. We've been talking about parting ways with a toxic employee. Let me just reinforce this. A hundred percent of the time, not sometimes, not most of the time, a hundred percent of the time that I've worked with a company and they've had a toxic employee and they exit that person. They finally get the courage, they finally do it. The team comes back and says, what took you so long? A hundred percent of the time. They also say, oh my gosh, we are better off without that person. A hundred percent of the time. So I want you to really let that sink in. Not some of the time, not most of the time. A hundred percent of the time, the exited toxic employee, performance goes up, culture goes up, and everyone breathes it a little bit easier. It's worth it.
16:36 Speaker 02 Take my two cents here and go be a better reader, be with courage, have the tough conversations you need to with these toxic employees. Back to Andrea. I agree with that too. I, I don't really like the concept of fail. I like hiring slow, but I don't like the, the firing fast. I really believe that you took time to find the right person and you do believe that they're a good value fit. You do believe they have the skills and you do believe that, that they can add to what we're doing here, that you do try to coach them, you do try Real leadership, not just, oh, all of a sudden it doesn't work. Um, it sounds like you give people multiple chances to be able to get it right, but you're willing to address those issues upfront and often.
17:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly. That's, I'm a, I'm a big believer, big believer in that. Like if you, if you had enough trust or saw enough potential in somebody that you were willing to extend them a job offer, I think you owe to them and you owe to yourselves to really give clear, actionable feedback multiple times, not from like a covering your ass from a legal perspective, but like a, just you're doing your diligence as a, as a leader and going, going through the paces on that.
17:43 Speaker 02 Totally agree with that. That's the reason why we wrote the book. I want to ask you a question. I don't know if I've ever asked this question. I'm not trying to throw you a curve ball, but I've seen people ask a similar thing in the world of like fitness or health and whatnot. So I'm going to ask it in, in terms of, of leadership for you. Is there a belief that you had when you first started the business and you were kind of getting going? And, and now you have shifted your belief in leadership. So things have changed. You're, you're more adaptive in a, a different way. Is there anything that comes to mind that you could share with us, Andrea?
18:13 Speaker 01 That's a really good question. I guess one thing I had a different perspective on before starting my business to now is just the level of certainty you could have in somebody at the point of hire. And we are, we are always looking to level up our interview process and the questions that we're asking and who, who they meet and having like a, a panel interview or an applied exercise or something to kind of help in the screening process. But I think at a certain point, you, both parties sort of have to take a leap of faith. And I used to think like you could, you could get that down to a science, like 95% success rate on new hires.
18:52 Speaker 01 And that past performance would indicate ability to succeed on the job. So like if we could find somebody who had just executed like A, B, C that like we, we needed them to come in and do here, that was like a really great indicator that they hit the ground running. But what I've found over time is that like culture fit is, is important above all things. And like learning agility.
19:16 Speaker 01 Is probably the second most valuable skill set, like eight ability to pick up new things, respond to new environments, take every situation as it comes. And you're never going to be a hundred percent certain when pulling the trigger on a hiring decision.
19:31 Speaker 02 I've got a seven dials uh that I use with clients and one of the most recent add to that has been adaptivity because you know, yes, communication is important and accountability and empowerment and EQ. But if you don't have adaptability, especially in today's technology world, uh with AI rush again, not going away, um it really is a hard place to be. So I appreciate you sharing that with us. Um, one last question for you, Andrea. What is the thing I've left out that we haven't talked about or addressed inside of this concept, this uh topic of scaling without ego?
20:09 Speaker 01 Ooh, we we covered a lot of ground. I think we we hit a lot of the high points. I guess one, one thing I'd add is um scaling without ego and kind of that rule number six culture. It doesn't, it does not mean that your team can exist without like praise and positive feedback and acknowledgement. I I think like that's, that's maybe a misconception sometimes for, for new folks coming in is like, oh, so rule, rule number six means that like, we're not like, we're not giving awards or we're not like elevating great work or and that's not what it's about at all. Like everyone's a human, everyone likes to hear that they're doing a good job, likes to have sort of context for how their work is landing. Uh, so that that's absolutely a part of our culture as well.
20:49 Speaker 02 You know, it's surprising how often I have to remind CEOs to praise people. I, I say this every time, it's free to be able to just look at someone, not just say do a good job, but like really give them something that they go home and can talk to their spouse or their friend and say, you know what? It was really cool to be seen today in the, in what I did. And it adds to the culture so much and people just aren't doing it. So um.
21:14 Speaker 01 It's so important and my team reminds me of that all the time because I, I fall into a trap often as a lot of entrepreneurs do, do where it's like, you do the thing and then it's like, all right, on to the next mission. Like we're not, we're not pausing to pat ourselves on the back. We're like just doing the next thing. But taking a moment to just say like, can we just acknowledge that some really great work happened here? Or that we celebrated a huge milestone or celebrated a memorable first of some kind. It's really important to do that and everybody, everybody benefits from, from holding space for that.
21:45 Speaker 02 I just had a client call today and I had to ask him how he's doing with it. And his response was, I'm okay, but it's been hard. And part of my ability is just to say, look, it's, you know, just make sure you're recognizing people that are doing the right things because it's just, it's a good human thing to do, not just here.
22:03 Speaker 01 It is.
22:04 Speaker 02 And to really express gratitude, I, I did just come back from a three week vacation with my family. And we knew there was going to be tensions, so I decided to do something I'd never done before with my family. I do it with clients, but we start each day with a gratitude for each other. And really, I could see the smiles, I could see what's going on, and I know that's in my family, but a lot of times, we don't even do that at work. So.
22:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, that is such a cool practice and it makes you feel better as the appreciator also.
22:30 Speaker 02 I, you know, and it got me thinking throughout the day. I mean, I won't get into that here today, but it, you know, there's a lot that, um, hopefully you guys have gotten out of this interview today with, with Andrea. Thanks for being here and being, sharing your wisdom.
22:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, thanks for having me.
22:43 Speaker 02 Wow. Another great interview here on the podcast. Really appreciate having the kind of guests here that bring new content, new perspectives to you. If you're growing your business and scaling, you definitely want to tune in to every episode that we have, if possible, uh, but maybe you have to pick and choose because we do so many. Really keep your fingers sharp and keep your fingers on the pulse of, uh, what's going on inside of leadership through this podcast. If we can help in any way, make sure you reach out to us, uh, and, uh, love to help you. When you think of growth and you think of leadership, think of growth in time, as always, encourage.
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