Scaling a People-Centric Business with Max Friar at Calder Capital

In this episode, I sit down with Max Friar, founder and Managing Partner of Calder Capital, to explore how building a People-Centric Business has fueled the firm's impressive growth. Max shares how prioritizing team development, transparency, and a culture of ownership has been key to scaling a People-Centric Business in the competitive M&A industry. We discuss the systems and leadership philosophies that have enabled Calder Capital to thrive, even amid economic headwinds. Ranked No. 1,409 on the 2024 Inc. 5000 list, Calder Capital has achieved a remarkable 346% growth since 2020, a testament to the power of a People-Centric Business model

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:32Speaker 01

  I think that they're more marketable, right? And I think the way I can tie that, I can tie the culture to the marketability is that generally, a people-centric culture is a trusting culture, right? It's where people, the owner is able to delegate and listen and receive feedback and receive contributions for their employees. And in return, employees want to contribute, want to grow the business, and they want to remain part of it. And I think that how that manifests over time, often, and this, a lot of this has to do with the owner's personality, but with owners that are able to delegate and let go, what ends up happening is those owners become less relevant to the success of the

• 1:15Speaker 01

  business because they have good, long-term people that care about it in place. And, you know, different companies will have different profitability metrics, and that ultimately drives the value of the business. But when that owner or owners are not relevant to the day-to-day operations of the business, that company becomes a lot more marketable. That opens up the buyer pool, it opens up competition, it opens up choice, it opens up negotiating leverage. So, you know, really treating your people well does translate into value. And that can be a hard, intangible connection to make, but hopefully I did an okay job of explaining it.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  Welcome to Growth Think Tank. This is the one and only place where you will get insight from the founders and the CEOs of the fastest-growing privately-held companies. I am the host. My name is Gene Hammett. I help leaders and their teams navigate the defining moments of their growth. Are you ready to grow?

• 2:08Speaker 03

  Today, we're going to talk about a people centric business, what it does for you, and really how it will help you grow and scale your business. We have us with us, the CEO of Calder Capital. They are mergers and acquisition specialists. They have a unique perspective around this. Hopefully, you'll check out what they do if you're in that world. But Max Friar and I talk about people centric business. And when we unpack this for you today, you'll realize how much he cares about the people around him. We even talk about why he cares about them so much, where it comes from, and some of the things that you will see, the uncommon approaches that he has inside of business that make it a people centric business. My name is Gene Hammett. I am a CEO coach.

• 2:52Speaker 03

  We do executive coaching and manager coaching and everything in between to help your individuals grow, help you grow as a leader, and help your company be prepared for the next opportunity that you have. If you're curious about the work we do, if you're curious about what your leadership blind spot is, if you want to evolve, but you're not quite sure, or maybe you want to scale faster, you're not quite sure what's standing in your way, then we need to have a conversation because there's no cookie cutter approach to this. You're not going to be able to AI this. You're going to want to have a deep conversation with someone who's experienced, has some real context around fast growth and leadership and people and culture. I've written a book on how to have tough conversations. And many times, people are avoiding something.

• 3:36Speaker 03

  And I wonder what you're avoiding. If you're really honest with yourself, you should probably have a conversation with someone that really knows what they're been doing and give you some insight and perspective. Might as well be me. You're listening to my voice right now. So just send me an email, [email protected]. We will get on the call. We will have a deep conversation. I promise not to sell you anything because that's not the way I want to operate and show up in the world. I want to give, build trust. If you do want to explore working with us, we can talk about that at a later point. But that first call will be all about you and helping you grow to that next level as a leader. Now here's the interview with Max. Hey, Max, how are you?

• 4:13Speaker 01

  Doing wonderful. How are you?

• 4:14Speaker 03

  I am absolutely fantastic. We got a great conversation coming up about people centric businesses and leadership. I really am looking forward to hearing about your company too. Tell us about Calder Capital.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  Yes, Calder Capital is a lower middle market mergers and acquisitions firm. That is fancy language for we facilitate transactions between buyers and sellers of businesses. So we have two distinct divisions, one that represents sellers of businesses and these are usually, you know, family owned owner operator, manufacturing, construction, distribution, and service businesses. And then we have a distinct buy side practice where we represent the various people or entities that are looking to buy similar types of businesses.

• 5:00Speaker 03

  Fantastic. I know there's a huge shift, it seems like, in not building a business, but buying one that's already somewhat healthy. And I don't want to go too much into this, but you have a unique perspective around this. We are going to be talking about scaling a people centric business. When you look externally to your partners, your clients, and you see that they're not having a people centric business, what is it that runs through your mind?

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Well, fortunately, most of our clients are well established businesses and, you know, they've been around for 10, 20. I mean, sometimes we just had a sale of a 150 year old company. And so while those companies obviously go through growth and change and different iterations of leadership, in order to remain, you know, a business, a vibrant business, you generally have at least somewhat of a people centric culture because you've come to the realization that you need people and you need positive relationships to stay in business and stay profitable. You know, very rarely do we come across a, I guess,

• 6:06Speaker 01

  a good business where, you know, the owner is overly driven by profits or power. So, and we tend to culturally not want to engage with buyers or sellers who are, you know, too focused on more Less greed or power. And frankly, that's because they don't let our process work. They try to dictate the process. So I don't have a ton of experience with a lot of businesses, or I should say, my overwhelming experience has been with buyers and sellers who recognize the value of culture and people and continuity of that when a transaction happens.

• 6:44Speaker 03

  Let's take the other side to it, like a business that does have that people centric focus. They have a strong culture. They have good leadership across at all levels of the company and they they're living by their values and I could go on and on and on. I would bet those businesses are worth more money than their counterparts.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, well, it's interesting. Um, I think that they're more marketable, right? And I think the way I can tie that, you know, I can tie the culture to the marketability is that generally a people centric culture is a is a trusting culture, right? It's where people of the owners able to delegate and and listen and receive feedback and receive contributions for their employees. And in return, employees want to contribute and want to grow the business and they want to remain part of it. And I think that how that manifests over time often, and this a lot of this has to do with the owner's personality. But with owners that are able to delegate and let go, what ends up happening is those owners become less relevant

• 7:46Speaker 01

  to the success of the business because they have good long term people that care about it in place. And, you know, different companies will have different profitability metrics and that ultimately drives the value of the business. But when that owner or owners are not relevant to the day to day operations of the business, that company becomes a lot more marketable. That opens up the buyer pool. It opens up competition. It opens up choice. It opens up negotiating leverage. So, you know, really treating your people well does translate into value. And that that can be a hard, intangible connection to make, but hopefully I did an okay job of explaining it.

• 8:23Speaker 03

  I I love the way you framed it for it for one. I I agree with you. I'm just gonna repeat back that, you know, a people centric culture is a trusting culture.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:32Speaker 03

  And that, you know, when it, when things are working well and when they're not working well, that's what we need, right? We need that trust amongst the people. Uh, let's switch gears, Max. Um, I was looking at your background and I'm, I'm, you know, being in mergers and acquisitions. I don't want to make this up, but do you, you have come more of a financial process driven background? Or is it something different?

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Uh, so I'm actually not that much of a financial technician. There are my business, the industry of mergers and acquisitions or business brokerage or investment banking. It's essentially just different words for the same type of business model. Most of the competitors that we face are financed led by financial technicians. And I think that's actually been a benefit for us not being founded or led by a financial technician. Uh, because I I have more of an entrepreneurial, uh, system, process, uh, repeatability, scalability, marketing, um, type mindset, um, you know, forest view type mindset.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  And I think that's really helped us with, um, systems and scale and marketing and automation to get us to be, you know, one of the larger, lower middle market firms in the United States. However, uh, my mother is a math professor. My father is an accountant. So there's certainly some numbers, um, you know, jumbled up in my head here.

• 9:55Speaker 03

  And I saw some tax consulting in your background.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  I I did do a little tax, uh, education and consulting when I was just out of college and I I actually enjoyed it. So, well, I do enjoy numbers.

• 10:07Speaker 03

  I I enjoy numbers too. I'm an engineer, so I I fit into this bucket too. I had to learn the human centric way of business. I had to learn the importance of being, having some empathy at certain times. And and I, you know, there was a lot of evolutions in my own growth and leadership. But where did you pick up this people centric business concept for you to take your company to that next level?

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Well, I think I'm, you know, I think personality wise, I am generally a nice person. Probably if you think of a DISC assessment, I'm like a middle, a low middle I. So I like people, but I, you know, too, too much people interaction is a little overwhelming for me. So it's probably a good balance from a personality perspective. I think I learned with some of my first jobs, I had, I worked in only in very small businesses, often family businesses or founder led businesses. And I had managers who were very theory acts at the first job I had. So it was basically, do your job, you're fired, very little empathy, very little understanding of personal situations

• 11:15Speaker 01

  that would arise. And, you know, so I, I, I learned a lot about, and I had another manager who was essentially a micromanagement. I couldn't send an email without him reviewing it. And it took him three days to review it. So I lasted six months at that job. So I, I think a lot of it was just learning about how I didn't, I didn't want to be treated. And I know people talk about the golden rule all the time, but I don't know that many people actually, especially in leadership, actually use that. I don't know if they reflect on, well, how would I want to be treated if I was in this person's position? And I feel like I've been pretty good about thinking and seeing the uniqueness of every individual that works for us.

• 11:53Speaker 03

  After hundreds of these interviews, and I've asked different types of questions, because it's not a set formula for, for any of these interviews, I, I think more than 50% would say the same thing, that they're, they created this incredible culture because it was, they had an experience early in their career, and I wanted to create something was very different. They, they wanted to come, go to work and enjoy it as opposed to just put their head down and do work.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Can I add one more thing?

• 12:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  Somebody, I don't know where it was, maybe it was a podcast or a book, or a very wise person said to me, as they reflected on being an entrepreneur, being a business owner, they said, you have, you have four things in life. You have family, friends, business, and hobbies. Pick two. And I've, I've never, whether that's true or not, I've never forgotten. Because it's actually felt really true to me in my life and I I've chosen family and work and I definitely am wired as a workaholic. I come from a line of workaholics from a personality perspective, but no one wants to not have friends or hobbies. And so part of our culture has been, and I don't know if this is right, and I don't know if it's sustainable.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Cause I I've never worked for a bigger company than I currently own, but I like to, as much as I can, work with people that I get along with and are friends. So we we do sometimes a hiking trip. I'm going to Peru to do the Inca Trail with two work colleagues later this year. I will say that can make difficult conversations more difficult, but that that's the life that I've chosen.

• 13:23Speaker 03

  I I love the honesty about being a workaholic and and a lot of people can probably relate to that inside their business. But as they start scaling their company, something starts to break. Sometimes it's their body. Sometimes it's the the relationships around them, like the family and whatnot. When you define yourself as a workaholic, I get it that you probably love the work you do. But does it get in the way of you growing and leading your company?

• 13:48Speaker 01

  I mean, maybe ask other people that question. I I would say, I mean, limitedly. I would say when I when I become aware, I think I'm I'm fairly self-aware. I think when I become aware of things through other people's feedback, which I openly solicit, I can change and I can pivot. I also, I am not my business. I'm I'm I'm outside of my business. I will not be in my business someday. I'm actively, I'm forty four years old. I'm actively talking to two of my leaders about succession right now. And it doesn't mean that it's imminent, but in my business, I've seen so many times an owner be in their late sixties or seventies

• 14:30Speaker 01

  or even eighties, and they've never had any of these discussions, even with their children. And sometimes those situations don't end well. And what's most important to me is that the company continues beyond me. And I fully accept that that's going to happen someday.

• 14:45Speaker 03

  Now Max talked about succession planning, just briefly here, but I wanted to touch on something. A lot of companies don't realize how important that is to get started early. So I'm here to be that sage advice of you don't do succession planning when you need it. You have to do it way in advance, years, many years sometimes, to be able to identify the right people, to develop them, to give them the experience and cycles. And when you do this well, you close those leadership gaps that happen when we, professional entrepreneurs get to a certain age and we need to make sure that we're handing the business off to someone else. It also is an incredible opportunity if you do want to sell your business someday, is to have that succession planning in place and have those leadership touchpoints

• 15:30Speaker 03

  developing. And so that when you show your business to others, the culture, the leadership, they realize that it's not just you pulling all the levers and pulling everyone along, that everyone together is providing the level of leadership that adds to growth of the business, that actually makes your company more valuable. Back to Brian. I love it. And maybe it comes from your experience of seeing so many transactions that, you know, we're here for a short period of time. And so you're thinking about that intentionally. I want to get us back to the topic of a people centric business and a people centric culture. What are the core principles that guide you with that concept?

• 16:08Speaker 01

  I think that I think of three things. So I think back to that golden rule, treating people the way you want to be treated makes everyone's lives better, less stress, less anxiety. I think when people are respected and listened to, they want to contribute, they want to advocate for your business and brand. And so not only is just your daily work experience better, but you really start getting that flywheel and that one plus one equals three effect. I think secondly, if people sense that an owner or manager is just using them as a means to money or power, then they naturally want to distance themselves from that situation. And therefore, that's not a, that's not a situation that has any element of sustainable growth to it, right? And I think, you know, really the last thing

• 16:52Speaker 01

  would just be that, you know, I want to work. With my friends, whether that's right or wrong, I want to work with my friends. And obviously, if you want friends, you have to, you have to treat them with respect and grace. And I think that where I am still learning more, becoming more comfortable is that being taken at five percent of honesty and finding a way to impart that with them, you know, without, but being careful with their fragile psyche and their ego when necessary.

• 17:20Speaker 03

  Now, you've mentioned the five percent. I think we probably need to unpack that a little bit because I know it's part of the EO principles. Uh, how do you define the five percent?

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Uh, it's, I mean, I, I think it would almost be like you're, if you're, to me, it's, it's almost a feeling, right? It's, um, it's probably like the heart beating a little harder, tightness in your chest. And it's the, you know, it's the almost you're compelled to have to have these conversations because you know that you're going to be stuck in that relationship or your business is going to, going to suffer. But it's very difficult to will yourself into that, that type of conversation. And these would be very sensitive things. I mean, things about, you know, people might think they're good at something, but they continue to, you know, trip on their own shoelaces or someone's in a role and they're just simply not performing in that role. And they, they, something needs to shift

• 18:14Speaker 01

  because it's going to start having impacts on the rest of the company that happens. So I would say that those are the, that's the feeling of the, of the five percent type conversations. It's almost like, do I really have to say this or do I really have to go through this?

• 18:29Speaker 03

  When you do have the courage to have five percent with others or with people on your team, what are some of the benefits of those conversations?

• 18:38Speaker 01

  I feel that most often people are grateful. The right people want to hear the truth and the right people, um, you know, I, I think you need to make sure that you give them some distance and time after imparting that truth so they can process it. But, you know, oftentimes they actually are, I feel drawn closer, you know, to you because they realize you're someone that will give them deep honesty.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Whereas I don't know that I don't know that most of us, it's funny to think about how most of us might not be getting the honest truth. So I think I think it's it's just it's more of a trust almost more of a bond when you are willing to do it. Now, the wrong people, I shouldn't say wrong people, no one's wrong, but I think people that, you know, maybe don't have high emotional intelligence, or they have a very fragile ego, or they're, you know, they're they're very, they're unconfident. I think sometimes they can, they can struggle with the truth. So and you don't necessarily know what you're gonna get always. So so that's why I think it feels risky, right?

• 19:46Speaker 03

  Thanks, Max. With that, I know it takes a lot of courage to to to open up that way. I know we're, you know, I know it's just the two of us, but you might thinking other people are listening in, which they're not yet.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  That's okay. I I know. I expect people will be listening to this. So it's fine. It's that I don't, I don't mind.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  When they publish it, they will listen in.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  I don't mind.

• 20:02Speaker 03

  You know, one of the other questions I really like to to kind of bring forward in this conversation of be building this people centric business is we've all made mistakes in our journey of entrepreneurship and leadership. Can you reflect back on one of the mistakes that help you grow and be the leader you are today?

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Sure. So I am naturally opportunistic and I tend to see the infinite good in all people. And then so so kind of like the result of that is that when I see someone struggling, the first thing I think is, you know, maybe they're just not in the right seat. And so let's get them there. Let's work with them. Let's try to talk to them about what's not working, what is working. Let's see if there's something else that they want to do, or they're interested in, or they can shift into that's a better fit for them. I think that it's difficult for me, though, when they're just not a right fit and they they're on the wrong bus to to move them along. And I think that as we've grown, we've become more cognizant of the people and situations that kind of act as anchors on our progress.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  And it's very hard to grow if we're spending too much time correcting the errors of the past. And and it's difficult to grow for constantly in a reactive state versus the proactive state. But some of my mistakes have been, you know, not addressing those situations fast enough.

• 21:17Speaker 03

  I I I've had the same problem too. I care so much about people and you know, one of my rules and I wrote this book, it should never be a surprise. And I still believe that today. I don't think you should have someone on. I know they say fire fast, but I I think you've got to give people a few, I don't know if it's chances is the right word, but you've got to coach them. You've got to support them because otherwise you don't really get to see it. Now, I also know that when they're not leaning forward, they're not trying to grow, they're they're not being adaptable, they're being, you know, stuck. I don't have much patience for that either. Yeah. Um, when when you're working with people and you know, you've you've you've had many cycles of this to all the people you've hired and whatnot.

• 21:58Speaker 03

  What happens in your culture when you find others aren't being as people centric as you think they should be?

• 22:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I I think it would come down to just having that, having that conversation. I I will say that I think the other leaders I have here have helped me become more more people centric. Um, when I was younger, I had a, you know, I had a, and I still have a high drive, but I mean, my goodness, take me back fifteen, twenty years ago, and I was just a force. And, um, you know, I don't, I think I was fairly low on empathy, to be honest with you. And I think some of that came out of my initial working experiences where my boss was, you know, I saw this person who grew a company. Um, to me, that seemed unbelievably successful at that time, just to have a company.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  But he was very harsh and mean with people. And, you know, I think I might have emulated that to an extent at first. And so it took me some time to realize that that was not the way to, you know, to go. So, I mean, I fortunately don't feel like I have that issue here. And I feel like now that I am where I am, from I guess, emotional intelligence development standpoint, I think it's going to be really hard for anyone to get away with or even want to, or even come into to Calder if they are not very cognizant of their team and how their team is feeling, how their team is performing. Um, so I don't know.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  If that's a good answer, but I don't have that situation, fortunately, very often. And I think it's because the culture here is fortunately strong and my number one priority is to keep it strong. I mean, just, just to be clear here, in the past year, I've said, look, we've grown really well, or we've grown, we've been at Inc. 5000, this will be four years now. That feels good, but it's culture before growth. That is, there's no way we can sustain this growth. I don't care if we go backwards. I don't care if we shrink. I would, I would rather shrink than damage our culture.

• 24:00Speaker 03

  Now, Brian just said something really great. I want to put a spotlight on it. Culture before growth. What he's really saying here is culture is more important than growth. If you are looking at growth of your business and you are thinking about the numbers, the, the leading and lagging indicators, they're fun and they're easy to measure and track. What's hard is to deal with the people issues and treating the people the way they want to be treated, the way they need to be treated, and really being the leader that they want to follow. Now, only you can answer the question of, are you that kind of leader? But I remind you that people first inside your leadership will give you more benefit than just focusing on growth alone. Because at some point in time, that growth begins to break down, the chaos, I've seen it happen over and over and over. This is my focus.

• 24:45Speaker 03

  This is who I am as a coach, helping people navigate growth and as they change. So I'd love to connect with you and help you grow if you need that. But just remember, people before growth. Back to Max. We've been talking about a people centric business. Is there anything that we've left out of this conversation that you feel like needs to be brought forward?

• 25:07Speaker 01

  There was a, there was a question about uncommon approaches to create a work, you know, work environment where people are aligned and they're performing at a high level. And, and I, I wanted to just give two examples. Maybe this will be helpful. Probably other leaders are doing the same thing. In fact, I couldn't think of anything that was way uncommon that we're doing, but I, I can't stress enough that people have things in their lives that come up and one, one thing I've done is I've given them a lot of time and grace when they're dealing with difficult. Circumstances in their lives. And I'll give two examples. We've recently had a first time mother go on maternity leave. She is a top notch performer at our company and there is no way that I was going to dictate when she came back fully.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  Or, I mean, that is someone who I'm going to, she will come back and she will be a long term player. But I cannot press upon her the needs of the, the performance needs of the company when she's going through that experience. And I think secondly, we have another individual who, another top performer, and he unfortunately got cancer. This is the first time I've had anyone in 12 years have cancer at our company and he's had to be on leave for many months. But it's so important that we conveyed to him that he has a place to come back to. He knows that. Because again, I look at this and I think, what if this was me? Like I'm going through this terribly scary situation.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  The last thing that I want to worry about is my job or my economic security. So this is, these are the type of situations that, you know, these golden rule situations. And it's, this is not golden rule in a religious context. This is just treating people how you want to be treated yourself. As, as long as I'm leading, this is how we're going to act.

• 26:46Speaker 03

  I love those stories. I'm glad I asked the question. Sometimes I don't know what we're going to get. And I don't want to keep, keep you off guard here, but I, I, those two examples show the honor and, and really respect that you give your people. And that's the reason why we're having you on the podcast to talk about a people centric business. Max, thanks for being here and being a guest on the show.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

• 27:09Speaker 03

  Fantastic interview today. People centric business. It just has a good sound to it. A lot of people actually run numbers centric businesses, but they never say that. They, they want the feeling that they have a people centric business. Hopefully you are the kind of leader that truly does put people first. Over profits, over process and over product. People matter. When you think of leadership and you think of growth, think of growth. As always, we encourage you to see.

• 27:43Speaker 04

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