Pod Insights Growth Think Tank Having a Culture Created with Education for Growth with Ryan Hutchins at Peak Business Valuation About this episode In this episode, I talk with Ryan Hutchins, founder and president of Peak Business Valuation, about the intersection of leadership, education, and business growth. Ryan discusses the overlooked risks small business owners face and the crucial role of leadership in navigating these challenges. He shares insights on business valuation, the company’s impressive growth, and the importance of hiring for a growth mindset. Our conversation also touches on the dynamics of running a business with a spouse, emphasizing communication and support. Listeners will learn the value of continuous learning and resilience for sustainable organizational success.
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1:24 Speaker 02 The average small business owner, they are the primary risk to any business succeeding. Because if you sell the business, it's like, okay, we have to replace this individual, but what, what sort of impact do they have to the overall organization? Or the customer relationships? Or why people come to them for the solution? And so it really comes down to, most small business owners really neglect to observe what risks there are inherent in their business. And those risks kind of derail or kind of add value if they found a way to mitigate them.
2:01 Speaker 03 Welcome to Growth Think Tank. This is the one and only place where you will get insight from the founders and the CEOs of the fastest growing privately held companies. I am the host. My name is Gene Hammett. I help leaders and their teams navigate the defining moments of their growth. Are you ready to grow? Today, we're going to talk about education for growth, what that really means when you are the leader of your company and you are growing those around you. Today's special guest is the founder and president of Peak Business Valuation. They do valuations on all kinds of businesses. They help you understand what your business is worth and really is an incredible business that they've created. What Ryan and I began to dive into is the
2:44 Speaker 03 importance of evolving as a leader, but also evolving your employees, growing those people. And he shares with us some very tactical things that you can implement today. One of them I absolutely love. It's what he does in his one-on-one meetings. And so you'll have to tune in to figure out exactly what that is. But today's conversation with Ryan on education for growth is meant to help you see that you might be missing some things if you're trying to grow your people and they're not actually along for the journey. They're not leaning into the work. They're focused on their own world. And we address that directly inside today's conversation. My name is Gene Hammett. I'm an executive coach. I've been doing this since 2012 as
3:25 Speaker 03 my sole income. I speak on stages. I write books. But what I really want to help you with is what is that big leadership challenge that you have right now in your business? Do you have a big opportunity on the horizon? Well, I work with fast growth companies that want to accelerate that growth and to have predictable success and even create the kind of companies that run without them. Now, that may be scary for you, but you can do it and it will increase your valuation. It will also reduce your stress level. All of those things are really good. If you're curious about the work we do, send me an email, [email protected] . I will use some of the tools I have, some of the assessments, and we will dive into this. You will walk away with much more clarity and a lot more information about how to move
4:07 Speaker 03 forward. And it's not just information, it's wisdom. And so I share this with you because I'd love to pour into you. If you're listening to this podcast, send me an email, [email protected] , and we'll take care of that right away. Well, now here's the interview with Ryan. Hey, Ryan, how are you?
4:23 Speaker 02 Oh, I'm good, Gene. How are you?
4:25 Speaker 03 I am excellent. We're gonna have a great conversation today about, you know, education for growth in your leadership and in your company. Before we dive into this, tell us about your company, Peak Business Valuation.
4:37 Speaker 02 Yeah, so we value companies for individuals buying or selling companies, going through divorce, any form of litigation, or just doing simple gift and estate tax planning.
4:49 Speaker 03 Well, it's pretty straightforward. I'm curious, from a business standpoint, what are the areas of valuation that people are unaware of?
4:56 Speaker 02 It primarily, it primarily comes down to what they don't observe as a risk. So ultimately, like, the average small business owner, they are the primary risk to any business succeeding. Because if you sell the business, it's like, okay, we have to replace this individual. But what, what sort of impact do they have to the overall organization? Or the customer relationships, or why people come to them for the solution? And so it really comes down to, most small business owners really neglect to observe what risks there are inherent in their business.
5:37 Speaker 02 And those risks kind of derail or kind of add value if they found a way to mitigate them.
5:43 Speaker 03 And your company has been on a tear lately. You made the INC. list. Over 341% growth of the last three years. About 15 employees, is that still accurate?
5:52 Speaker 02 Uh, correct.
5:54 Speaker 03 Well, today, we're gonna switch gears and not talk about business valuation, even though I'm sure their audience would be fascinated to, to pick your brain about this. I want to dive into the leadership principles and the, the people, you know, and culture of your business that has made you so successful. So what do you think is, is sort of the, the core principle of your success?
6:14 Speaker 02 Yeah, so one of our kind of key phrases that we go by here is we're all diligent doers. So we're all striving to better ourselves from today, from yesterday as like the benchmark. Cause ultimately like in business valuation, no matter how much anyone knows about a particular topic, like there are new scenarios that are thrown into our past every day. And if you're not continually looking at those and finding ways to educate yourself, then you're really just falling behind. And so my team, one of the reasons why they love working with Peak is everyone is excited to just learn, because every business is different. No matter how many times you've seen an HVAC contracting company, like everyone's different.
6:58 Speaker 02 Every business owner is different. So it's really being, having that diligent doer attitude and continuing learning and wanting to achieve and kind of become better than they were the day before.
7:09 Speaker 03 I'm curious, is this a natural part of your own life is to always be getting better and keep learning?
7:15 Speaker 02 Oh, good question. Um, I am a perfectionist, whether that is good or bad. And I, like when I started Peak, it was, the whole idea was to really just make a certain salary as a 1099. And then slowly but surely, as I enjoyed the work, my clients enjoyed working with us as they grew and required our services more and more, it required me to build a team. And so I had to change my mindset in that instance to, okay, if I want to build a company where people enjoy and see the opportunities to grow and learn and become something better, like I myself have to do that as well. And so it's something that like I didn't set out to be that,
8:00 Speaker 02 but I've had to teach myself and kind of change my framework and my mindset to become that.
8:07 Speaker 03 Now, let me break in here for a second. Ryan said he was a perfectionist. I have gone through this in different stages of my life and in different areas. Some areas I'm not, some areas it piques its ugly head into this. And I say ugly because being a perfectionist isn't just about doing your best work. It's about being perfect. It's about you waiting for things maybe too long. And so I remember one of my clients many years ago was talking about his own marketing. And he was afraid to put marketing out into the world until he had done all the research, checked all the details, crossed the Ts, dotted the Is. And I realized I was talking to a CPA. It's been 20 years doing work products that needed to be analyzed and hold up
8:51 Speaker 03 under an IRS inspection. And it had to be quote unquote, "perfect." But the reality of this, that was standing in the way of his marketing. Because he was, instead of getting feedback from marketing elements and seeing it as feedback, he was waiting for perfect. And that was a real big breakthrough for him because he realized that he could move forward with some parts of the business being a little less than perfect and move faster, which marketing requires that, in my opinion. So just a little bit of insight around being a perfectionist and how it gets in the way, but also how you can maybe reframe that so that you can use it where it's supposed to be, but then also let go of it in areas where it's, it really is a hindrance to your own growth. Back to Ryan.
9:36 Speaker 03 I know I haven't given you these questions in advance. So I appreciate you, you know, hitting these, these, I don't know if they're softballs or not, but this one might be a little bit harder. What has been the most profound difference in your transformation as you stopped just being the doer and started building a team, hiring people? Do you know what that transformation was?
9:56 Speaker 02 Oh, that is a good question. Do you want to reframe it?
10:00 Speaker 03 What made the biggest difference in your journey to be the leader that you are today?
10:04 Speaker 02 So the, yeah, that's a great way to put it. Um, so in, when was it? It was October of 2023. We hired an individual that had more experience than I did in the world of business valuation. So he, like, I was in business valuation, started a business after three years of experience. And at year nine of valuing thousands of companies, I looked at an individual who had been doing this for 25 years. And I've done, I had done significantly more evaluations than he had. But from a theoretical mindset and from a geek perspective,
10:45 Speaker 02 he was far smarter than I was from a theoretical standpoint and from an Excel modeling. And so I, I basically was like, you know, if we're going to grow and I'm going to train my team effectively, because my time is now spread out. We brought this individual on, his name is Sean Hyatt. And over the course of that month, he basically said, this is what's wrong in what you're doing. It's not wrong, but you could do it so much better and explain it better to the client. We basically changed our model, our report, the way we approach our clients. And like, it was a headache. I had to take a humility pill every morning.
11:23 Speaker 02 And that is really what changed our whole company and how I viewed peak moving forward.
11:31 Speaker 03 Now, hopefully some people can relate to this. They've hired someone smarter than them, maybe more experienced, maybe even with more gray hair. And they have been able to be, have the humility that you've described. So I really appreciate you sharing that story with me, Ryan. I want to get back to this, this idea of growth. There's skill growth and then there's kind of personal development growth. Do you feel like one is more important than the other in the side of your company?
11:58 Speaker 02 That's a great question because ultimately where I am now and how our team has kind of formed is my skill relative to business valuation and the actual day to day of value in the company has started to diminish. I still know how to talk the talk, but ultimately my skillset has had to improve in different areas of the company in order to grow it. And so, and that all has come down to more the personal development side. And so, I don't know, every, every aspect of growing a business has a season and there are individuals behind you that are better suited
12:39 Speaker 02 to manage the skill side. And so that's, that's how I've transitioned over the last couple of years is find and identify the people on my team to kind of manage the skillset needed for a particular activity. And I just keep growing and looking at different areas where I can build a skillset and then pass it on to who needs it next.
13:01 Speaker 03 I've got to talk about personal development here. I, I am a personal believer that entrepreneurship is the best personal development program out there because you will be given challenges that will be hard to overcome. And when you have the grit and the resilience to overcome them, it will shape who you are, give you confidence and allow you to tackle even bigger things. And so when you think about your own journey, hopefully you're continuing to learn and grow. Today, we're talking about education for growth, but you want to make sure that you are leading by example. When you are evolving as a leader, you actually are setting an example to everyone else that, that this is important, that they should be evolving to. And I love the fact
13:41 Speaker 03 that this is a, you know, part of their culture. Uh, and I, I, I put a spotlight on this for you because if you're not growing the way you want to, if you're not accelerating at the pace you want to, then your business will continue to struggle. Maybe you're the bottleneck of the business. Maybe it's not even something that you know how to, to see forward because it may be a blind spot. And so my job is to help you with that. If I can reach, reach out to me, [email protected] . Now back to Ryan.
14:08 Speaker 03 Attention to the people that you have around you. So your growth is probably pretty natural to you. Are you hiring people that have the same desire for growth? Are you trying to coach them to have that kind of desire? And and which one is it for you?
14:23 Speaker 02 That's hard because I I love growth and I have people on my team that I've hired more so from their energy. And it's kind of they have a desire to learn and do this work that we do. But when it comes to growth, it's that's a very hard skill set to train. Um, like I, I want to teach sales and business development to everyone on my team. But at the end of the day, like I, I have this test and had a conversation with one of my employees. He's like, I would like to get to a million in sales just by myself because I get paid a commission on it. And after two months of this, he had made a couple of sales.
15:06 Speaker 02 And it's like, why, why aren't you doing more? And he's like, well, X, Y, and Z. And I'm like, okay, that's not your, your issue. It's because you're comfortable with working between nine and five. And everything outside of that, you don't want to do anything related to work. And it's like, in order to grow, you have to get into those uncomfortable positions and figure out kind of why you want to do this and how you're going to accomplish it. Because you're not going to accomplish it during your normal day day job. So I I don't necessarily hire for people who want to grow. I hope that as they transition, it's a natural progression with what we do to get to a point where in order to grow further,
15:49 Speaker 02 you have to get into sales and business development and create those relationships. And so I basically hire them primarily to train and do phenomenal in valuing companies. And then once I get to a stage where like they can start running forward, I train them to grow and do sales.
16:08 Speaker 03 It sounds like a model similar to consulting or to legal where you do.
16:12 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's very similar.
16:14 Speaker 03 And then, once you see the point where you start to hit this plateau, they have to get into sales, generating revenue, being rainmakers. The phrase that they use. So that's, that's the model that has worked for you. When you think about developing your people, I'm kind of curious. Are you using coaching skills behind this? Are you leaning on outside development stuff? Or how would you deframe your ability to help your people grow?
16:42 Speaker 02 I think that's where I lack with our team development. Cause ultimately I have a consultant that I've been working with since 2020. And I've tried to take a lot of those key principles that I've learned. And we, we meet every morning at eight o'clock for 30 minutes. We call it our daily huddle. And we just chat about all the projects that are coming in, our wins, our losses, different aspects that we're learning. And so I've tried to instill some of the principles that I've learned from my consultant to my team. But there's always room for further growth. Like, one of the areas that I've tried to train and educate each team member
17:24 Speaker 02 is I meet with them one-on-one every week by themselves for 30 minutes. And it's more so to kind of understand how they're doing outside of work and how we could be helpful in assisting them and their family. But also it provides a way to kind of, okay, what area or questions do you want to focus on? And I try to do my best to address those questions or point them in the right direction of who they can go to or listen to or figure out how to kind of do better on a particular topic. And so I feel like now I'm just delegating people to better sources than I at this point.
18:04 Speaker 03 I I love this piece. Let me reflect on this for the audience, what I heard you say. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but you're spending thirty minutes at least a week with your direct reports. So that they can share with you, not just about their work, but really about what's going on in their life. And I would imagine that they leave most of those interviews or those in those coaching sessions or whatever, however you call them. They leave them feeling heard. Do you think that's accurate?
18:30 Speaker 02 Yeah, I would say that's accurate because ultimately, like, one of the most impactful ones was one of our team members, like, mentioned, hey, my wife is doing this this work on the side while raising our our newborn. And I would really like for her not to to work anymore because, like, relative to me, she's making far less. And she's more impactful with with what she wants to do in the home. And I'm like, cool, we'll increase your salary. And like, it changed their their outlook. And they there was a newfound desire to come to work and be excited because his family life was taken care of to some degree.
19:11 Speaker 02 And so I we, my wife and I, who we run the company together, like, we try to do our best to kind of help our team, whether at work or outside of work.
19:22 Speaker 03 I love this story. I, you know, feeling heard, I think, is very important and underestimated by many leaders, taking time away from just talking about work and KPIs and what's next and the problems of the business. Giving your employees a chance to share all of themselves and then supporting them through that. So I really appreciate you telling us that. I I also picked up on the fact that you work with your your wife. I didn't know that. I don't know if you know, my wife, Amanda, is a part of this business. She's actually my co-author of the book that I wrote with her, How to Have Tough Conversations. What's it like to work with your wife? And again, I'm not looking for the the dirty details, but like, how have you guys made that work?
20:01 Speaker 02 Oh, it was it was very simple from the beginning. Like, my wife, she is great at strategy and content marketing and loves educating the end user.
20:14 Speaker 02 One aspect that has set us apart from our competition is our website is full of information about how to assess the value of a company. So rather than getting a hundred site visitors a week, we get around five to six thousand a week. And she just loves educating people because that's what she did in her corporate career. And I'm on the technical side and the actual like, how do we get money in the door? And so we know our lanes really well. And at the end of the day, I always bounce my ideas off her because she looks at it at a different frame of reference than I do. And will basically tell me, no, yes, oh, we should dig into that further. And kind of makes sure that I'm on the right course and spending my time on the right activities
20:59 Speaker 02 to kind of move the business forward. So it's been great. I, yeah. And in a lot of instances, I know it doesn't work out, but because we know our lanes and set it out at the very beginning, this is what she's doing. This is what I'm doing. It's worked out perfectly.
21:13 Speaker 03 I know we're on video. Not everyone's probably watching us. They're probably listening. But I can tell by the smile that you've just talked about with your wife, how special that is. I feel the same way with my wife, although I will admit it's not always easy. She's very determined and strong and tells me exactly when I have messed up or how I can do it better, which is actually good. It's a very good thing. And Ryan, I really appreciate you being here talking about growth from education and really, you know, talking to us about how you lead your company to that next level. Thank you for, for being a part of the show.
21:44 Speaker 02 Oh, welcome, Gene. This has been fun. So.
21:47 Speaker 03 Wow. Another great interview here on the podcast. I really love being able to do share these interviews with you, connect with people that I think are amazing. And Ryan is just, you know, a great example of that. Loved him talking about how he pours into his people and how he really connects with them about what's going in their personal life and the impact that makes across the business and the culture and the performance of the business overall. So hopefully you took notes, you can execute on those. If I can help you with anything, make sure you send me an email, [email protected] . When you think of growth and you think of leadership, think of growth thinking. As always, with courage, we'll see you.
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