Pod Insights Green Industry Podcast Revolutionizing Lawn Care Business Marketing: Insights from a Former Athlete Turned Entrepreneur About this episode In this episode of The Green Industry Podcast, host Paul Jamison interviews Marcus Piazzisi, founder and CEO of VIIRL, who shares his inspiring journey from baseball stardom to digital marketing expertise, along with practical tips for marketing lawn care businesses using tools like CallRail to track and optimize results. 🎟️ LCR Summit Louisville - Click Here 📚 Level Up Your Money (New Release) 👉 Get Your Copy! 🎟️ Equip Expo 2025 👉 Save 50% off Equip Expo Ticket w/ Promo Code PAUL: Register Here 📲 Connect with Paul - Visit Official Website 🛠️ Paul's Recommended Tools & Professionals 💻 Horizon360 – All-in-one contractor business software: gethorizon360.com 📞 CallRail – Track where your leads are coming from: callrail.com 📚 The Landscaping Bookkeeper – Know your numbers, stress less: thelandscapingbookkeeper.com 📈 Lawn Care Launch: Click Here (new program for business owners) 🌐 Footbridge Media – Get a pro lawn care website: footbridgemedia.com 🎬 VIP On-Demand: Lawn Care Life Conference 🎥 Watch All Replays Now — Includes Brandon Gray, Andy Mulder, Jason Creel, Paul Jamison & more. Learn pricing, profit, burnout prevention, and how to scale smart. 📦 Business-Building Resources by Paul Price Increase Letter Template Contract Templates Know Your Numbers 📚 Paul's Most Popular Business Books How to Build a Thriving Lawn Care Business: Buy on Amazon Cut That Grass and Make That Cash: Buy on Amazon Level Up Your Money (New Release): Buy Now 🌿 Paul's Online Banking Recommendation Relay's Online Banking: Open an Account
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0:31 Speaker 01 Hello and welcome to the Green Industry Podcast, your go-to guide for building a more profitable and thriving lawn care and landscaping business. Your host, Paul Jameson, is the author of five bestselling books, including Cut That Grass and Make That Cash and his latest, Level Up Your Money, all available on Amazon and Audible. Now get ready for more expert insights and practical strategies to boost your business and level up your life. Here's Paul Jamison.
1:09 Speaker 00 Today on the program, we're going to talk all about marketing. I have with me the CEO of Viral. He is an Oregon Duck, I believe.
1:17 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:18 Speaker 00 His name is Marcus Piazzi C. How did I do on the last name?
1:24 Speaker 02 Pretty good. Marcus Piazzi C. For all daycare. Yes, it's a tough last name for sure.
1:32 Speaker 00 I'm a big Cleveland Browns fan and our backup quarterbacks, Dylan Gabriel from the Oregon Ducks. Is he a good pick or is he going to work out for us?
1:41 Speaker 02 Well, I mean, the Oregon guys, they've been probably a mixed bag in the NFL, right? You got a couple of guys that have done pretty well. I guess we'll see. Oregon's fast. They got a lot of good talent, good coaching up there. So it sometimes translates to the NFL, but I think the guys are bigger and there's just no margin for error. So I'm not like, I played baseball, so I'm not like a football analyst by any means. So I'll, I'll leave that to, to you guys to figure out.
2:18 Speaker 00 Okay. You played baseball at Oregon Ducks?
2:21 Speaker 02 I did. Yeah, I played centerfield.
2:23 Speaker 00 Wow.
2:25 Speaker 00 I've seen their football stadium. It looks just absolutely beautiful, just like the landscaping and everything, the geography around that campus.
2:35 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's gorgeous there. If you haven't been, you should go because Phil Knight just puts up another building every, I feel like every couple of years. They have, they just redid the stadium. I think they're redoing their indoor football practice facility as well, but they already, I think, put like 200 million into a new football training center right next to the stadium. So it, it looks like this, it's like an architectural showcase at the University of Oregon. It's pretty incredible.
3:10 Speaker 00 Yeah, they, they are, their uniforms are always the best for sure. How did you get from centerfield on a Division One college baseball team to be in the CEO of Viral? What, what led you out of graduating and ultimately launching a business?
3:26 Speaker 02 Yeah, so baseball obviously didn't work out. I got hurt towards the end of the year and I didn't have a great senior year. So I moved back home and started serving at Chili's actually, and then took a risk on a marketing company out here in Scottsdale. I'd, I'd moved back to California. That's where I'm from. And it was just a $12 an hour, essentially social media posting job. That was when Facebook ads were fairly new. And so I kind of got, I got really entrenched there. I just kind of gave it my all and started
4:07 Speaker 02 working my way up at that business. And I got the opportunity to run the Facebook advertising division for that company. And so it started out as a very small, like skunk work project, and we built it into really quickly, like a million dollar business. And that was where I first kind of cut my teeth on. Building something within an organization, but it's when you're kind of the GM or kind of the owner of it, you it's very similar to starting a new company even just outside of that. So I got to create all the process, create, you know, what is the product, what's
4:50 Speaker 02 pricing, what's the value, how do they get results out of these Facebook ads? So you are forced to ask all these questions and run the business as if it's your own. And so that really helped essentially live training on how am I going to build this thing in the future? So, long story short, after that, it was really successful. I was there for five, six years. And then I took a job at a more traditional marketing agency. And they focused on like, you know, big $200,000 websites at the time, big brand, big vision. They worked with, you know, some blue chip companies that you've heard of. And what
5:35 Speaker 02 they wanted was they wanted subscription revenue and more consistent revenue on the books because those websites and big projects didn't come often. So my task was essentially building a product that these companies could use on a monthly basis that would bring more consistency to the organization. So I built that, I started that. I got to break even about six months in and they, the company just thought it wasn't going to work out. And I was very confused about that. So I actually got, I actually got let go from that company. And they, they were nice. They're, you know, they offered me a severance and
6:17 Speaker 02 I said, I don't want the severance. I would like my business that I started building. So that essentially started viral. I registered my company, you know, a day later, I built my own website. And it was a very crazy hectic time. I put all the ad budget on my personal credit card. And that's essentially just kept going month after month.
6:42 Speaker 00 Was that in California or Arizona?
6:45 Speaker 02 That was in Arizona, actually. So I moved after baseball, I went to California for like, maybe a year. I moved back with my parents. I got my, I graduated. So I had nowhere really to go. And I was kind of just figuring out my life after like, What does a life without baseball look like? And that was very, that was a tough time for sure. But then, yeah, I moved out to Arizona quickly after that and started that career.
7:10 Speaker 00 Okay. And then what year did you officially launch viral?
7:15 Speaker 02 Viral was launched in 2018.
7:18 Speaker 00 Okay.
7:18 Speaker 02 So we'll be.
7:19 Speaker 00 A while.
7:21 Speaker 02 Yeah, we'll be seven years old.
7:27 Speaker 02 Actually, we just hit seven years this month, so. Pretty, pretty well read.
7:33 Speaker 00 Congratulations. I'm curious, you've been in this industry for so long now. What, what are the biggest challenges for a landscaping business, a lawn care business, a fertilizer, weed control business? In their lead generation, what, what's kind of the challenges or hurdles and obstacles? That you're noticing are being made out there?
7:56 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think from the marketing perspective, I think right now there's a lot of fancy buzzwords and fancy technologies and fancy, everyone just basically strapped AI on the, the end of their name and they're now intelligent. I think that what we see is they get distracted by a lot of those tools and they don't really work on the fundamentals. So, for example, I could get you a hundred leads today, but if you don't answer the phone right, you have, you know, a DSR that is having a bad day every day and they're not cordial on the phone. They're not asking the right questions, they're not qualifying a lead.
8:38 Speaker 02 So you're essentially paying all of this money for all of this activity. And at the most critical segment and actually closing that particular deal down, you're, you're falling way short. So I think that's one. I think the other is. Just the nature of where technology is in social media, there's so many different channels to go out and invest your cash on, like a Yelp, a Thumbtack, an Angie's List. They all have different ways in which they deliver you leads. And if you're not super informed about how all those ad algorithms work, the type of
9:23 Speaker 02 bid allocation, or how things are bid on within their system, you could end up spending a lot of money without like a lot of result. And then there's also, you know, Angie, for example, I think sends when you submit a lead, I think to four other competing businesses. Well, you know, Thumbtack has the option to have a one-to-one, or the customer picks. Yelp is a form fill that's through their request a quote that goes to another few businesses. So there's all these different nuances within the channel. So it's really hard for a business owner or a, a marketing director internally of those businesses to really make sense of all of that and normalize all of that data so that it's judged fairly.
10:08 Speaker 02 And that's kind of one thing that Viral does is we have this lead cloud that kind of normalizes all that out. But even just being able to see with a high degree of certainty where your ad dollars are going and the returns that you're getting, I think a lot of businesses really struggle with. That's probably the two biggest things as far as like the, the ad space is concerned right now that I guess you'd call trending issues. And, and they're constantly changing too. Like Yelp updates their, you know, product every three months. Thumbtack, same thing. So how do you even like keep up with all of this is I think really the challenge.
10:48 Speaker 00 You guys are known for performance-driven marketing and really tracking data. And that's how I got connected to you guys from Simone, and they're very impressed with how much you pay attention to data, rather than just willy-nilly spending marketing money. Cause that advertising money can get devoured really quickly by everybody you just mentioned. So what, what performance data are you tracking and why?
11:15 Speaker 02 Yeah, so we're, we're tracking really the
11:23 Speaker 02 All the lead information and chronological lead information, I think is really important because if you, I think it's somewhere around like eight, it takes eight touchpoints for someone to make a decision about something. And what I mean by that is they can Google you, that's one touchpoint. They go to your website, that's two touchpoints. They visit your Yelp page and check out your reviews, that's three touchpoints. So what we're finding is because there's so much information available and so many sites and ways to get it, that people are often using five of your marketing sources before they're essentially converting. So we're tracking that whole journey to the extent that we have it.
12:06 Speaker 02 We also have indexed every single conversation from the history of Viral. So how are people asking for a specific landscape job or lawn care job? Like what words are they using? What's the best way to respond to those people from a high degree of certainty? Because a thousand other people did it this way and it actually yields 5% better conversion. So we're tracking all of that. We're tracking every ad change that's made across those channels. And the, the biggest part isn't necessarily like, because imagine if you just laid all the data flat and you knew exactly what to do.
12:49 Speaker 02 The biggest thing that Viral does is we're able to adjust that ad budget in real time before you've wasted all that allocation. So we call it flex budget at Viral. And what that basically means is if I have an indication, let's just say hypothetically Thumbtack, this particular week wasn't performing. And how do I know that? Because we're directly integrated with Thumbtack. I see all the lead volume, I see all the calls, I see the budget going into it. So I have this. Very good sense of what Thumbtack is doing in this exact week, all the way down to like this exact hour. And what we say is like, look, all right, we know that, let's just say in this
13:31 Speaker 02 hypothetical situation, Thumbtack is the actual problem. Well, I think most agencies really aren't set up to pivot that budget to the appropriate channels and they can't do it in real time, you know, the next day essentially. So viral system essentially goes in and says, I want to stop spending money on Thumbtack and I want to move that to a channel that's performing high. Maybe in this particular market, maybe Yelp is the best channel. It's the lowest cost per lead, it has the highest conversion rate. And so we very quickly see the landscape and say, I'm going to make this adjustment. Now, we don't just do that one time either. That evaluation process is happening on a daily, weekly basis. And so we're constantly
14:16 Speaker 02 looking at, you know, where are the channels that have the least competition in this particular month? Which channels have the best leads in this particular month? And by the way, it does change. Every one of them changes their algorithm. Everyone is making updates. They're doing different markets separately. So for example, you can have a rollout in California and maybe not in Arizona. So how do you, there's so many pieces of information that are changing. There's so many like processes are changing that in our opinion, if you are not able to adapt quickly, you are not going to get the return. And I think that's really the whole entire name of the game in our space now. It's like, how can you find out very quick?
15:01 Speaker 02 And how fast can you fix it?
15:03 Speaker 00 So good. Can you share how call tracking tools and analytics like Callrail is a game changer for marketing?
15:13 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think that Call Rail specifically, we like, we've used Call Rail since really the beginning at Viral. They don't just give us the call data, they give us a lot of the tags within the website so we can put scripts on the site to get the specific keyword that they searched, you know, to get to a website or make the call. And they do a really just nice job of like providing API data. So we have all the transcripts indexed within our system and that's how I can get like that linear view of, you know, how would I respond to a landscape lead versus how I would respond to a plumbing lead? It just works too, it's easy. And I think that for, you know, just from the business perspective,
15:59 Speaker 02 you know, take Call Rail out of it, if you're not tracking your calls and you're not like listening to your team actually have these conversations with your potential prospects and customers that you're really not understanding your customer on a deep enough level. And I think you're losing out on coaching opportunities, you're losing out on like, "Hey, 10 of these guys did this exact same thing and it worked out better, you should do the same." I think that Call Rail just provides a really easy way to index and go back and have that data to improve overall, just like their customer experience from the time that people come in to the time that, you know, they've performed the service.
16:42 Speaker 00 I'm curious, how many employees do you have over at Viral?
16:47 Speaker 02 We hover around 25 to 30, 25 are full-time. We have a few contractors that we work with based on kind of the needs, but we've, we haven't really increased headcount too much because we're, our technology is kind of filling a lot of the gaps, but a lot of the guys that we have here have been here for a long time and so yeah, we have around 25, 30-ish, give or take.
17:17 Speaker 00 I grew up playing baseball, so I think as a center fielder on most teams, shortstop and center fielder seem to be naturally leaders of the team. And now you're leading a team of 25 or more, you know, people depending on how you're counting. So I'm curious what leadership tips you can share with us in the lawn care landscaping industry because it's so hard to build a team because nobody really wants to go out and mow grass. Or I'm not sure how it is in Arizona, but I live down here in Florida. It's really, it's really hard to motivate a human being to go work out here in the Florida heat. So what have you kind of seen on all those teams you've played on and everything you're learning as a leader of your business as a CEO?
18:00 Speaker 00 What have you learned about leadership throughout the years? And how do you build a good team in business?
18:07 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think that's great. I mean, that's a, that's a loaded question. I think, you know, ultimately what it comes down to is, are you, you know, are you the calm in the storm? Are you the, can you, do you understand your business, A, from all of those different levels, right? So are you, you know, do you put yourself in that scenario where a guy wants to go cut the lawn in 100 degrees? Like, have you put yourself in that scenario? Like, how would you, how would you create that job so that it would be more attractive? So is it, is it a money thing? Is it a vehicle thing? Like, maybe they would mow the lawn if you had great vehicles with great AC
18:50 Speaker 02 and they got, you know, good amount of break time. So I think really putting yourselves in your team's shoes, not from a superficial standpoint, because I think, you know, the tendency is, you know, you get big companies and like the big CEOs kind of like, oh, I really feel bad for you, or oh, I understand your problem. And they really don't. I think if you take the time to really understand each person's role and what motivates them, I think that goes a long way.
19:25 Speaker 02 And I think the uncomfortable piece too, and I've had to deal with this because I'm I'm a doer by nature. So I have to feel like I've typed the keys and I've made the spreadsheets to feel productive. And I think leadership, one of the hardest things is just understanding that you cannot do it all. And you have to trust your team to get all of the work done if you're going to scale. You know, I, I maybe could run viral at a million dollars a year, $2 million a year, if I did every little piece, right? But now viral is a $25 million organization. I have to, I don't have the option to do all the
20:10 Speaker 02 work. I have to rely on my people. And I think the other piece is just trust and consistency, right? I think when your team genuinely feels that you care about them and you want to see them succeed, that they go out and they conquer the world for you and they come back and they are happy and fulfilled in their job. And I guess the last thing I'll say is like, you're going to make mistakes and you're not going to make every decision perfect as the leader. I, I use the thumb here, like, I am, I've made a lot of mistakes in business. And because I've made those mistakes, viral is as successful as it is.
20:52 Speaker 02 And so I think as an owner, you can tend to ruminate on, A, what the team is going to think about this decision. Like, B, am I, am I making the right decision? And you might tend to analyze that decision way too much versus just make the decision and see what happens and, you know, with your best information and best foot forward. And I think that, you know, in, in my experience, like, some of that has handicapped me as I grow the business. It's like, I could have just made this decision, it would have worked out and versus, you know, kicking myself or making a
21:34 Speaker 02 A huge mountain out of a molehill often. So I think just having good resolve and trusting your gut is also something that that I would advise.
21:45 Speaker 00 And Marcus, you mentioned you've made many big mistakes, but you've learned from them in business. Do you mind sharing one of those mistakes and then actually the valuable lesson you learned from that mistake and how you're different leader today because of it?
22:00 Speaker 02 Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, one of more of a tactical example is like in the beginning of viral, we didn't really have a ton of organization around billing or like a clear process around when viral was going to extend credit and to who. And what I mean by credit is not like a financing product. It's like a net 30 invoice or how is viral going to get paid for the marketing that we do. So back in the day, viral was not as big, you know, cash flow was something that we monitored very closely. And we had a number of clients that, you know, either went bankrupt. We didn't really know what
22:43 Speaker 02 to do with that. We had some clients that, you know, didn't, for whatever reason, like their cards declined, it took long to get paid. And so I think like, what we learned just as a team from some of that stuff is, A, we vet our clients a little bit better than we did before. I think companies tend to want to accept every single client. And obviously, to grow, you more or less have to be a little bit more lenient with that selection process. But we now view our clients as is more of a partnership and like a right
23:28 Speaker 02 fit. Because viral is, you know, we're not the cheap, we're not the most expensive, but we're also not the cheapest. And because we we know that our products work and that they have value. But at the beginning of Viral, we were kind of, I won't say desperate, but like when you're growing a startup, you'll, you'll do a lot of projects and you'll work with a lot of people that you wouldn't normally work with. And so I think that over time, Viral's just been finding other like similar businesses that have kind of the same values that we do and kind of do business how we do. And that's been, you know, a huge benefit to us really in the long game because we don't have any of those, I guess, call them
24:09 Speaker 02 billing issues anymore. So just one tactical example of, of stuff like that. And I guess I'll give you like the, the kind of intangible one is the, people are the most important piece of your business. And I think that understanding and addressing and making really clear goals with all of your leaders and the people that report to them. I think the more numbers you have, even if you need to like change the goal or reevaluate the goal every quarter, I think that having, even if the most basic goal of like, hey,
24:50 Speaker 02 you need to grow the business by 20x accounts or 20 accounts, for example, just having the number and having the accountability to the number. It seems really simple, but it's, it gives both sides breathing room to where as a leader, you're not micromanaging them every day. Like, hey, did you get to the 20, what number are we at? Like, it gives me a record of what they're doing and it gives them clear guidance on, on their goals. Whereas before, in a startup, I'll admit, a lot of people wore a lot of different hats. And I think that ultimately hurts the company long-term because you can never, it's harder
25:33 Speaker 02 to find the answer to the problem when there's not clear guidelines and rails on who is doing what, who's responsible for what.
25:44 Speaker 00 We have a couple, two minutes left. Can I, do you have time for one more question?
25:48 Speaker 02 Sure, yeah.
25:49 Speaker 00 Okay. If you started a lawn care business today, how would you market the lawn care businesses where, you know, on the tail end of 2025 going into 2026? What's the core marketing drivers that you would do for, you know, you're mowing grass, you're, you're putting in mulch, basic, you know, lawn care business? How would you market that in today's day and age?
26:11 Speaker 02 Yeah. So if I was starting from scratch, like, you know, I'm just buying my first truck type of deal. I actually would. So your website needs to just be clean. It just needs to be simple, but you, you need an easy way for them to submit a lead, an easy way for them to find information out about you. It doesn't need to be like a Mona Lisa website when you're starting. It just needs to be, choose clarity over bells and whistles and like, you know, website animations. I think just good pictures of lawns you've worked on and the work that you've done, and a very clean process on your site is a good starting place.
26:51 Speaker 02 As far as all the lead channels, because money would be essentially tight at a startup phase, I would actually lean towards all of the channels that allow you to pay cost per lead. And what I mean by that is, you know, if I do Google AdWords, I can spend $10,000 and not get one lead because I'm buying clicks to a website. I would recommend, especially starting out, companies like Thumbtack, Angie, even Yelp, they're a little bit like Google from the standpoint of there's not a guaranteed lead per se. You're not like paying, I'll pay a hundred dollars for this exact lead, but their algorithm and their system generates pretty good leads when you put money on.
27:36 Speaker 02 So I focus on, all right, I have to have a lead. So how much is that lead going to cost me? And I'm not going to get charged on like a Thumbtack or an Angie unless they produce a lead or at least an opportunity for a lead versus me spending, you know, $10,000 on Google and hoping my website converts them. LSA is also another good channel. It's, I'm not sure it's super efficient for landscape. We've seen some like budget fulfillment issues with that particular industry.
28:12 Speaker 02 But again, you're not being penalized because if you put $500 on Google LSA and they don't convert you a lead, you still have $500 on Google LSA. You have not lost your money. So I'd, I'd probably start there. And then as far as like systems and getting organized within your own company, I'd probably choose a CRM like a Service Titan. They are, I'm not sure their exact pricing anymore. I'd say they're probably in the middle of the road as far as cost for like a startup business. But you need something like, don't tell me that you're going to manage your business
28:55 Speaker 02 on an Excel sheet. I think that we've had clients start that way. We've convinced them to get CRMs and they're all the better for it and their revenue goes up and they have people that can now log in and they have like an actual like basic system. But you'd be amazed on how many people start their business on an Excel sheet, manually copying lead information from Thumbtack, typing it into Excel, some guys calling it. In this day and age, like the customer just demands a way better experience and you're not going to be able to provide that with Excel sheet. So whatever it costs, you need a CRM and the earlier that you start and really make it a part of your process, the less headache it's going to be for you towards the end. And then
29:42 Speaker 02 the last thing I'll say is like your customer is first. Like you're, you're starting out. It's a brand new business. You need every single customer to rave about you. You need every single customer to only call you and to call you and make, you make it worth their while to call you back for all of their needs. And so you're going to work your ass off in the beginning and you should expect to, you know, lawn care business, like you should expect to leave every house perfect. And really reinforce that with any employees that you may hire. So, um, because word of mouth is going to be, you know, all these lead channels I mentioned, word of mouth
30:26 Speaker 02 is the lead expensive and the best lead that you can ever get. So if you're not nurturing your customers and having that white glove experience every single time, I think you're going to struggle.
30:37 Speaker 00 Very well said, Marcus. Well, I appreciate your time today and thanks again to Simone from Call Rail. She's been hyping you up for months, telling me I gotta get you on the podcast. So I appreciate the insights that you shared today and thank you. It's nice meeting you. I sent you an invite on LinkedIn, so hopefully we can connect over there.
30:54 Speaker 02 Great.
30:56 Speaker 00 Cool. You have a great day in Arizona and I appreciate your time, Marcus.
31:00 Speaker 02 Yeah, thanks so much, man. I appreciate it. Enjoyed it.
31:02 Speaker 00 All right. Nice meeting you. Have a good one.
31:04 Speaker 02 You too. Take care.
31:06 Speaker 00 All right. That is Marcus from Arizona. He did mention having a CRM and I couldn't agree anymore how important that is. We do recommend Horizon 360. They are from, originally came out of the Toro Company who sells lawn mowers and they started their own business management software, also known as a CRM, which is uniquely designed for lawn care businesses. And the other thing about Horizon 360 is they come with these trackers that you can actually put on your vehicle or you could put it on your lawnmower. So it actually shows you in real time where those are at. So you can be sitting in your nice air conditioned office and you can see,
31:50 Speaker 00 okay, we have one mower that's on Mrs. Smith's front yard right now. We have another vehicle that's over there. Quick trip. What are they doing? A quick trip, right? You can know what's going on with your business. And we also mentioned in today's episode, Marcus mentioned Call Rail. Call Rail is call tracking with all kinds of analytic tools to show you what's actually going on underneath the hood in your business. And so anyway, I will put in today's show notes the link to Call Rail, to Horizon 360. Anytime we talk about things like this in the program, you can always find the links in the show notes. So appreciate you listening to today's
32:33 Speaker 00 program and we hope to catch you on the next one. Thanks for listening.
32:53 Speaker 01 Hey, it's Marty, producer of the Green Industry Podcast. This episode is over, but check the episode notes for links to products and services that you heard about during the episode. And thanks for listening.
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