NICK MOHAMMED: How Comedy & Magic Helped Me Survive the Playground Bullies

Nick Mohammed is a man of many talents. He's the comedian behind the iconic character Mr Swallow, an Emmy-nominated actor best known for Ted Lasso, Slow Horses and Intelligence and, an amazing magician. He also captured the nation’s hearts as the Faithful who almost won the first series of The Celebrity Traitors. Nick is one of the nicest people you’ll ever meet. He’s also proof that success rarely happens overnight. Nick started out performing stand-up to an audience of just two people and he has worked his way up to become one of the country’s favourite comedians and actors. In our conversation, Nick shares: How magic helped him deal with school bulliesBeing part of the first ever series of The Celebrity Traitors What it’s like working with David Schwimmer and Jason Sudeikis How he created his iconic character Mr Swallow The secret to a happy marriage Nick is proof that the things that make you feel different can end up becoming your biggest strengths. Nick Mohammed is Great Company. If you enjoyed the show, you can also follow us: Instagram-@greatcompanypodcast https://www.instagram.com/greatcompanypodcast/# TikTok -@greatcompanypodcast https://open.acast.com/networks/611e511b4ec6dc00134bced2/shows/65d737dfdc02e00016c413b2/episodes/www.tiktok.com/@greatcompanypodcast Jamie -@jamielaing https://www.instagram.com/jamielaing/?hl=en-gb And if you've got thoughts, questions and comments, you can email us at: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] THE CREDITS Producers: Helen Burke Assistant Producer: Issy Weeks-Hankins Video: Josh Bennett Senior Social Media Manager: Laura Coughlan Audio: Rafi Amsili Geovannetti Executive Producer: Ewan Newbigging-Lister Great Company is an original podcast from JamPot. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I could survive the playground by just getting out of deck of cards.

• 0:03Speaker 01

  Because you started doing magic at four years old?

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. Look, I'm sure I'm brown, you know, I grew up in the north of England, didn't like the nineties. I could sort of entertain them and just sort of keep them at bay a little bit. And that felt like a superpower. And even the teacher, I remember Mr Pike saying, Nick, get your cards out.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Nick, that is wild.

• 0:18Speaker 00

  Do you want to do something now?

• 0:19Speaker 01

  Please.

• 0:19Speaker 00

  Okay, I believe that the card you chose was jack of clubs. Do I pick it up?

• 0:26Speaker 00

  Isn't that mad?

• 0:26Speaker 01

  You are what?

• 0:29Speaker 00

  Isn't that mad? Hi, I'm Nick Mohammed and I'm in great company.

• 0:34Speaker 02

  Please welcome actor and comedian Nick Mohammed.

• 0:37Speaker 00

  Wow, a traitor.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  Oh, ****. Can we talk about traitors?

• 0:42Speaker 00

  We can, was just the most exhilarating.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Was it really?

• 0:45Speaker 00

  Experience of my life, really.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  Joe.

• 0:50Speaker 00

  You have no chance of knowing it. I should say about Alan as well.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  I would love to do an audition with you. So this is Braveheart.

• 0:56Speaker 00

  You've come to fight as free men and free men you are. Then they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom!

• 1:07Speaker 00

  This industry is definitely surrounded by its healthy share of rude people.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  Have you seen it firsthand?

• 1:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:13Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, they were notoriously rude and it was gross. It was just like watching a school bully.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  Can't wait. Who was it, Nick?

• 1:25Speaker 03

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone and I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them.

• 1:38Speaker 01

  Everybody, listen up.

• 1:39Speaker 03

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• 2:58Speaker 01

  Guys, welcome back to Great Company. Today's episode is a big one because we have Nick Mohammed on the show. He's a comedian, he's a writer, he's an actor. He's been in Ted Lasso, one of the biggest shows in the world at the moment. He's incredible and he's also a magician and he performs tricks on the show today. It's an amazing episode. We talk about so many different things, about bullying, growing up. It's all in there. Before we start, if I can ask you one quick favor. If you could possibly subscribe to our show. It's completely free and it takes one second. It means we can keep making a better show. It means you join the community of all the incredible people who are following us and it allows you to get an alert each week. Okay, you ready for that? Here we go. Enjoy this amazing episode of Great Company with Nick Mohammed. Nick, audition, so you're comfortable in auditions?

• 3:40Speaker 00

  Yes, yes, I try to be now.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:42Speaker 00

  Try to be.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Well, I would love to do an audition with you.

• 3:44Speaker 00

  Okay. Who's auditioning, me or you?

• 3:46Speaker 01

  We're in it together.

• 3:48Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  And I don't know if you've ever watched Braveheart.

• 3:52Speaker 00

  Is it the freedom speech?

• 3:53Speaker 01

  It's the freedom speech.

• 3:54Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  You're gonna play William Wallace.

• 3:56Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  Who's played by Mel Gibson.

• 3:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, slightly contentious character now.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  I know, in the 90s.

• 4:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, everyone loved him in the 90s.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  We loved him in the 90s.

• 4:04Speaker 00

  Not so much.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Not so much now.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  So you're gonna play him?

• 4:10Speaker 00

  I'm him.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  In the remake.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  I'm playing the sort of side character.

• 4:15Speaker 00

  You don't have that much to do, Jamie.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  That's fine, I'm happy with that. I'm the casting director, coming in for an audition. And so you're walking into the room.

• 4:21Speaker 00

  Okay, so here we are.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Hi, who are you?

• 4:24Speaker 00

  Hi, Jamie, nice to meet you. Thank you so much for seeing me. I really appreciate it. Big fan of your work.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Thanks so much. You've seen my movies, though.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  Seen all your movies. I'm Nick Mohammed.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  Hi, Nick. Nick, yeah, we've seen you in a couple of things. We've seen you in Ted Lasso, you're great in that. Well, congrats on The Traitors.

• 4:41Speaker 00

  Thank you very much, thank you. Did you watch that?

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Loved it. Loved it very much. So you're playing William Wallace today?

• 4:46Speaker 00

  Yes, if that's okay.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  That is fantastic.

• 4:48Speaker 00

  I prepared it in a Scottish accent, I hope that's right.

• 4:52Speaker 00

  I could do it Japanese if you want, but I think.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Whatever, whatever, whatever the art takes you, you should go with it.

• 4:59Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Here we go.

• 5:00Speaker 00

  Okay. I still have a tiny bit of water.

• 5:05Speaker 00

  Now I am nervous. Sons of Scotland, I am William Wallace.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  William Wallace is seven feet tall.

• 5:12Speaker 00

  Yes, I've heard, kills men by the hundreds. And if he were here, he'd consume the English with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his ass.

• 5:24Speaker 00

  I am William Wallace and I see a whole army of my countrymen here in defence of tyranny. You've come to fight as free men and free men you are. What would you do without freedom? Will you fight?

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Fight against that? No, we'll run and we will live.

• 5:43Speaker 00

  I fight and you may die. Run and you'll live at least a while and dying in your beds many years from now. Would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance? Just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom.

• 6:06Speaker 00

  I apologize to any Scottish listeners for my very bastardized attempt at your beautiful dialect.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  That was fantastic.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Can we talk about traitors?

• 6:20Speaker 00

  We can. Have you been asked to do it? I'd love to see you on it.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  I would love it.

• 6:25Speaker 00

  Oh, come on, Jamie.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  You know what?

• 6:26Speaker 00

  I'll ask.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  I'm trying to ease my way towards it. I actually wrote about it. I wrote about. Yeah, I wrote about the, that final scene with.

• 6:35Speaker 00

  I think you put a really kind Instagram post. I think I remember seeing that, yes.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Because it was just, it was so. Beautiful, because Alan, obviously being the traitor, and as an audience, you know this throughout. Of course you do, right? So it's panto.

• 6:48Speaker 00

  And so obvious when you watch it back.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  And probably not in there, right? You probably don't say as much.

• 6:53Speaker 00

  I mean categorically not, no.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  No, but what was so incredible about it is that, I think, Nick, you felt so wise throughout. And you felt, it felt like as an audience member, you had, you were like, I know everyone's number. I've got this.

• 7:09Speaker 00

  I thought I'd worked it out.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  You thought you were playing this amazing game. And when it got to that last bit, it was almost like you were looking at Alan going, we've got this.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh, it was so that because Alan, Alan was one of, I should say about Alan as well. He brightened up every single day of that whole experience. And I was there for like, you know, nearly three weeks.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  It's a long time to spend.

• 7:30Speaker 00

  When you get to the end, yeah. And there is a psychological, and my wife was just so phenomenal, because we, obviously we discuss anything that I am going to take on, which is possibly going to take me away from home. But we were both such big fans of that show. But there was a weird psychological thing of, and especially with the kids of like, you don't, you don't know when you're going to go, you know, whether you're a traitor or a faithful. You know, your time could be up on day one or day two, it could be up, you know, after three weeks, whatever. So that was a slightly odd thing, but we were like both, okay, let's just go. It's mad, like the whole thing is mad.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  Are you competitive? It felt like, are you not competitive?

• 8:01Speaker 00

  Well, like, yes and no. I want, I think once I got into my groove, I want, I'm like, oh, this is actually.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  I like this.

• 8:07Speaker 00

  I like this. And I'd never done really anything as me. I mean, I'd done Taskmaster, but even then I sort of put Dracula makeup on because I was still a little bit uncomfortable being me. Whereas this was just, you know, warts and all, and you very quickly, and you'll know from reality telly, but you just very quickly sort of get numb to the cameras, actually. And you end up just being quite.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Nick, why are you so afraid to, why, why do you feel so, because having met you now, you're the most charming, most easy.

• 8:33Speaker 00

  I wouldn't say it's fear. I think it's just more about wanting to just keep something of myself.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  Self to yourself.

• 8:38Speaker 00

  And because I want to act as well, and I do character stuff, I want, I don't want to kind of give too much away. Because I think, I think. You know, there was, I did, there was one bit of me when I was offered traitors. I just sort of thought, do I even want to just expose myself in that way? But, but then equally, I was like, who am I to turn this down? And I think by that point, like Stephen Fry had already said yes, Tom Daley had said yes. I think Claire Balding, Alan and other people. And I was like, oh, I mean, like, and I loved the show. But oh my goodness, it was like, it was thrilling. And there were times, and particularly at the start, I was convinced I was going to be gone right at the start. Like right at the start, yeah. And I think if you watch it back, me and Lucy were so convinced that we were.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  That was it.

• 9:19Speaker 00

  That was it because I, we, I remember after watching, well, I'd watched all of the like British series. And I remember spotting this pattern that the last two in at breakfast are often the people who've been considered as, as being murdered. Because they, you know, that's how they kind of edit it together. So there's like, oh, and who's it going to be out of those three people? It could be between this, this and then the next episode is like, and they reveal it's this person. And I remember coming into the first breakfast and it was me and like Lucy and maybe Celia or Stephen, who were the last in. And I was like, oh God, so I'm right. And then Claudia walks in and said, no one's been murdered. I was like, oh relief. And he says, well, actually one of you has, but it was done in plain sight. So I was already like, oh, well, maybe that still means it's one of us.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  And then I don't, I don't know if you remember that, that whole funeral thing, when Paloma.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:07Speaker 00

  I got in one of the coffins genuinely believing it was me to go.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Was that on TV?

• 10:12Speaker 00

  It was, they did show it because I, there was clues as to who it might be getting in the coffins. And I, and I, but I was so dead certain it was me anyway. There was like one clue, which I think pointed towards Tasmash. Like, well, that's me, forgetting that like four or five people had also been in Tasmash. And I just got in and I was like, that's it. And I was so gutted. And then when it wasn't me and I got out, I, my heart was racing. I couldn't believe it. And then every day, every morning, honestly, you, you got this rush of like, I think it's me, I think it's me. Like you get so into the game.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  Of course you do, because that's, because that's your whole world.

• 10:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  And that moment where Alan revealed he was a traitor. And you all came together as like this amazing, beautiful, like vulnerable moment of just like.

• 10:53Speaker 00

  Well, it was.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  There was tears and it was just. It it was like a just a perfect example of showing vulnerability and showing what real quality TV can do.

• 11:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  And we have slightly forgotten that because of social media and TikTok and everything. But actually, that is.

• 11:12Speaker 00

  One of the nice things actually about Traitors, and it is true with the most recent normal version, which I thought was fantastic, is that because everyone's now so aware, it's such a beloved show, people are so concerned about getting spoilers, they have to come off social media and they have to watch it when it goes out. So it is literally like the olden days when people would all get together, watch it together, and it's an episode every day or once a week or whatever it is, because you can't, if you catch up, if you're trying to do catch up on it, you can't really because you'll probably hear the spoilers or see it in the press or something like that the next day. So it was just one of those shows. I mean, it felt the closest it must be to be a sports person, I guess, in that it was, there was a real live quality to it, even though obviously it was pre-recorded.

• 11:55Speaker 00

  But and to hold on to the secrets as well for so long was a weird thing because I came out of that castle like May the ninth, twenty twenty five or something, and it didn't come out until like mid October that year. So for a good period of like, you know, five plus months or whatever, it almost became like it didn't happen. It was all because we couldn't talk about it because you can't give anything away and the press, you know, don't know anything about it. So there's no there's no furor about it until it comes out. So it just almost felt like, was this just a surreal dream? And knowing particularly how it played out with betraying Joe as well, and how that kind of came about with Alan winning was just madness.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's fantastic. Who do you think is the one to watch for the next series?

• 12:34Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, I just, when I when I saw that list, and I know quite a few of the comics particularly who are who are doing it. And I just think it's such, I mean, I have no idea because and I listened to, I think it must have been the Richmond Osman and Marina Hyde podcast.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Rest of the entertainment.

• 12:52Speaker 00

  Talk about the the new lineup of people going in. And and they were sort of saying, who would make good traitors? And actually, every single combination of people you think of, you think, oh, that'd be good. Oh, that'd be good. Oh, I'd like to see them as that. That's what's so good. About it. And I think that's the thing about the show is it's all about, it's not necessarily about an individual. It's about like a dynamic of people. And I cannot, I cannot express enough how excited I am to watch it.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Amal Rajan.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  Oh, Amal, yeah.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  I love Amal.

• 13:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. I was at University of the Mall.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Were you?

• 13:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  He's so great.

• 13:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's so great.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  He's so great. I just.

• 13:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, we had a chat just before we went up and I said, look, if, if, if his, his other half, if she wants to talk to Becca whilst you're up there, because it is a very specific thing, I think.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 13:35Speaker 00

  Like, big shout out to partners of people in kind of crazy industry, because like, they are doing so much. I mean, Becca does so much. Like to kind of just keep the household running and keep, and keep the world together and keep me in check and kind of keep the kids just sort of like, just so, you know. She makes that so easy. She is literally phenomenal. She's also the coolest person in the world. Incredible. Yeah. How she, how she manages the world. And also because, you know, one minute I could be sort of trying out really bad Mr. Swallow material and the next we might be at like an glitzy event and it's really fun. And like to sort of, it is a slight psychological kind of like roller coaster, I think, this industry.

• 14:17Speaker 00

  But she's just very like, I mean, it helps that she's, she's not part, you know, she's a teacher, she's a music teacher, she's a brilliant musician. And so, so her stories from work and so on are very different, like stories that we, so, so we kind of, we can offload to each other uh, about our own very specific kind of problems. And it kind of makes us both realize like, oh, that, that's fine. Like, those are first of all problems really. And it's all good.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  What is the greatest thing about your wife?

• 14:40Speaker 00

  The greatest thing about her, I mean, is her sense of humour. I mean, for sure. I mean, she, she is.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  Is she funnier than you?

• 14:45Speaker 00

  Oh, oh, but like a billion percent.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  My wife is a swall.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  I mean, like, really, really funny. I mean, she's obviously incredibly beautiful, talented and, and has this amazing heart and incredible with the kids and a brilliant musician and teacher and everything. But her sense of you, I mean, that, that is undoubtedly, like her and I will go to the grave, like laughing, like laughing, because I mean, there's one story I will not ever repeat, but it was the grimmest thing that happened to, to both, to both of us.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:13Speaker 00

  And, um, and, and, and we're in. Hospital and we were finding some, I mean, it was really dark, but we were, and it, and it didn't, it was us to laugh, it was our thing to laugh at. Um, you know, we weren't laughing at anybody else, but oh my goodness. And when we all refer back to that sometimes, we're like, oh God, that was proper Galahad human. And we, but she is so funny, so funny. And I like, but I mean, like proper, like observational comic funny.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, and she's just genius.

• 15:38Speaker 00

  Oh, like incredible.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Without knowing she's probably genius.

• 15:40Speaker 00

  Like just one liners and I'll just like write them all down.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Sophie, my wife, is the same. She says these, I'm like, you know, your comedy gold at times. She's like, what? It's like, so.

• 15:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  What do you think the secret is to happy marriage then?

• 15:52Speaker 00

  I think perspect, like pers- like perspective. I mean, like, you know, it's not, it's not to say that you're not gonna have disagreements and things like that. Like, of course you are, but, but it's just that nice thing. At the end of the day, you can still sort of have that kind of perspective on it and just sort of come together and sort of look at things and think it's all right. I mean, look, we're really lucky and, and stuff like that. We're so lucky with our kids and we have such a great time with them. And it is, man, and we're often exhausted and Becca, you know, even more so, but still we'll see the fun side and still make it fun for them and me. And so it's great.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  But what was your first ever audition? Do you remember it?

• 16:28Speaker 00

  Oh, that's a really good question.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Cause you, did you have to audition for Footlights?

• 16:31Speaker 00

  Yes, I did, very much so. Well, my very first, if you really kind of going further back is, so when I, I, so I studied at Durham University and then started doing postgrad stuff at Cambridge.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  And you did geology at Durham?

• 16:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, geophysics. So yeah, like geology was maths. But yeah, um, and I auditioned for the Durham Review, which is like the, kind of like the comedy sketch group in Durham. But I didn't get in and I, and they only had one audition a year. So you could only really audition once a year, which was a shame really. And I auditioned, I think two years on the trot and didn't get in. Um, but, but I still quite like mates with them and I, and occasionally they would ask me to sort of, um, I, I, I think I remember like emceeing one of their gigs, um, because I think someone had pulled out, but I did like quite a lot of magic within that. Um, and so. So yeah, so I was kind of, by the time I got to Cambridge and I, and not that I, comedy was like a big plan. I thought I was gonna go into academia, frankly, or, or if anything.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  You wanted to be a geologist, didn't you?

• 17:21Speaker 00

  A geophysicist, yeah.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Which is what? What is a geophi-

• 17:24Speaker 00

  Oil, I mean, it's probably quite bad now, but, but I mean, it was at the time, it was, I think my PhD was sponsored by multiple oil companies.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Is it really?

• 17:31Speaker 00

  And then, yeah, but I didn't complete it, so I don't feel bad.

• 17:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, fine. Hey, listen.

• 17:35Speaker 00

  So, so certainly a career in entertainment was not like-

• 17:38Speaker 01

  It's not really, it wasn't a thing. It was like, it was such a hobby almost then.

• 17:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. And, and even, I, I think I vaguely considered, just because I knew some people who were going, some of those Durham Review people actually, who were gonna go to drama school after university. And, and I just, I remember, I just remember, have a really vivid memory of just going on to like the Lambda website and just having a little look at it. And then just thinking, absolutely not. Like, I just wouldn't.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  What? Imposter syndrome?

• 18:01Speaker 00

  Complete imposter syndrome. I mean, but also I wouldn't have had the skill set, frankly, but, but, um, but yes, a, a, a hefty dollop of imposter syndrome for sure. But I remember auditioning then for Footlights. And actually, what was great about Footlights is you could effectively, well, the first audition, which is called, so the, the, um, the sketch shows that they did every two weeks were called Smokers. And the first one was called The Virgin Smoker. And it was basically for anyone who was new, joining that year. And it basically meant everyone got in. So you'd still audition, but everyone would get in. And even if it was like thirty people doing like little two, three minute sketches and it would be quite a long night. But, um, so I remember doing that. And then,

• 18:38Speaker 00

  and then I just remember auditioning every two weeks. And, and, and I think most of the time I kind of got in and then you became, I became really good friends with a lot of those people. And then, you know, the auditions were, not that like, oh, you'll automatically get in, but it was just very much like, well, if you're part of this group who really love doing it. Cause it's not like everyone wanted to do it every week or anything. Um, and you know, I, all those people, I mean, I absolutely adore and still good friends with now. So my kind of cohort was like Simon Bird and Joe Thomas and Johnny Sweet, Sarah Solomani. So we were all there at the same time. And just the year before was like Tom Basden and Tim Key and all that lot, Stefan Golajewski. So-

• 19:14Speaker 01

  Loved him.

• 19:15Speaker 00

  Oh God, well, I love them all. I mean, they're just phenomenal. And have all, and I, and I say this genuinely, all were so supportive back then. And to this day are also still support, like, well, all, like, Tim came to see my- Miss Swallow Tour like showed like last month, like, like, like we'll always.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  Wow, you guys have known each other since you were kids.

• 19:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, like, like, early twenties, like, yeah, yeah. So it's sort of, it's wonderful that, and I feel so lucky. And that is one thing. And again, it's a real privilege to say, but one thing that going to Cambridge did like, like this idea that it's possible to, to.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  Gave you that confidence.

• 19:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, it did, because I possibly didn't have that fully at that point. And it did make me think, well, actually, there are plenty of people who have kind of come before me who have actually managed to make it work out for a career. So you can sort of dare to dream. I mean, it's certainly not a guarantee by any means, you know, just because you've gone to a university, A, it certainly doesn't make you funny, because it's not, you know, funny is so subjective. And so it was, it was not a guarantee ever, but it certainly did make me think, oh, maybe I can be slightly blindly optimistic about this. And that's not so much a bad thing. And all that love gone into it.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Because you have to be, you have to have a little bit of delusion. You have to have a slight bit, right?

• 20:27Speaker 00

  Because otherwise you'd probably give up after your last bad gig, you know, because it's so horrible to kind of go through, but you had to sort of come back and think, no, no, no, I can, I can do better. And, and there's definitely a, a tipping point, and it's never really a, a specific point. It's usually probably over a period of like six months where it's probably the transition between, am I going to give this up? Or is this now my career, career? And I'm now dead set on this kind of being the thing that I'm aiming for. And you kind of make, you have to sort of psychologically make that decision, I guess.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  When was that point for you, do you think?

• 20:59Speaker 00

  For me, it was relatively early and it was, it was because I was doing my PhD at the time. So, and it was a sponsored PhD. So it was, you know, I was being paid to do it. So it was a proper thing. And, and but yeah, a very specific point. I remember I'd done one year of the PhD. And it was approaching the summer and I got into the Footlights Tour Show. So that was a show that was, so I'd auditioned for that. And that was quite life changing, actually, because basically that they could only afford to send five of you up to the Edinburgh Fringe because your accommodation is basically paid for. And so it can't be like a show with like 20 people in. And, and so. So I, you know, they only choose five and so they had quite a rigorous audition process for that. And I remember just sort of wanting it so much. And I remember the day getting the email

• 21:41Speaker 00

  and I sat in my little office with two other PhD students and I saw that email come through and I scrolled down and I saw my name and I could not believe, I could not believe it. I've got, I've got, I've got the email, I printed it, I've got the email and I, and because of course, there was no guarantee that that would ever lead to a career in it at all, but it felt like this isn't, at the time, this was massive for me. But I then had to get permission from my supervisor to then take basically two months off because I was going to be away in August for the fringe and then there was like a little tour afterwards in September. And so, and I had a load of fieldwork to do before then in Faroe. So I remember like June or July of that year, pretty much been up in the, in the Faroe Islands. And I remember coming back and then leaving to then basically go up to Edinburgh. I remember looking back at the Bullard laboratories where I

• 22:25Speaker 00

  was based and it was such a romantic thing, but I remember so specifically looking back and knowing that I would never come back. I just had it in my, I was like, and of course, that's delusion, that's delusional, that's blind optimism, whatever you want to call it. But I just had that feeling and like, thank goodness it worked. I mean, I'm so lucky, but I had that feeling and it, and it, and it came good and I can't believe it.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  It's like a movie as you go, it's going away and you're looking back and going, and in a long, I'll never be going back there.

• 22:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was like a voiceover in my head. And actually, where the

• 22:54Speaker 01

  Morgan Freeman probably voicing it.

• 22:55Speaker 00

  Exactly. Where the Bullard and the Bunch is actually quite picturesque. It's like a field with horses and it was the summer and the trees were swaying and I was like, not going back. And I, I, I, I just had it. And then of course, the reality is that, oh, well, you still need to do enough to do an M Phil, otherwise you've been paid to do this. So I still, then I had to do another year. And then, and then, and then it was like move to London. Well, I can't afford to do comedy in London. And so I was doing open mic stuff, but I then had to work for Morgan Stanley.

• 23:21Speaker 00

  To like pay my way, you know, I had to go work in the day. So it's not nearly as like, you know, clear cut as that.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  But Nick, this is really interesting for me, right? Because you had this opportunity with your, with your skill set and your PhD and everything you had to go into. Probably the corporate world and earn a huge amount of money doing things and working for what and building yourself and having this, what you would, people go as a typical career.

• 23:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  Right? And you could probably, you could probably, you could probably sketch out their career, what it would look like.

• 23:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  Quite easily.

• 23:54Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  But you chose to not do that. You chose to take this other path. It's that sliding doors moment in life.

• 23:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Which I find so interesting.

• 24:00Speaker 00

  Yes. And I think now, and this is probably, you know, having had kids now, like when I like look back at that, I'm like, oh my God, that is just, I can't believe I was sort of almost like brave enough to like make that decision. But of course you don't have the responsibilities as you do when you're a bit older. And if you're ever going to make those decisions, great to make them when you're young. I mean, you know, that's, that's the time to make them. But, but yeah, I kind of, I, I sort of look back and almost get kind of nervous thinking about. But I wasn't nervous then. I was just like, yeah.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  It's that beautiful naivety.

• 24:28Speaker 00

  So naive. Yeah. Like that sort of like wistful kind of like, yeah, I'm just, you know.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Are you gonna go and do this?

• 24:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. And like, well, and again, just to go back to like those footlights mates that I mentioned that, but cause we all were like that, it was just like, it was such a nice support network. So we were, even though again, there was no guarantee, there was no financial support from it at all, but it was just like, just to offload and, you know, we were all trying to get an Asian or doing gigs or writing scripts. And we were all just doing that at the same time. And so it felt that we could sort of share a lot of those very sort of specific kind of concerns or go and support each other at gigs or something. And, and you know, like I say, we sort of still do that now.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  You know, someone will be listening right now, who, who like you're their inspiration and they're thinking, well, how, how can I take that leap? What can I do? What advice would you give that person?

• 25:13Speaker 00

  Well, like it's so, it's tricky. And obviously that kind of question sort of comes up a lot, I think, but it's, it's, I, I, I always now say, just try not to be afraid of failure. Because when I think of any, and it's certainly, I'm certainly not the first person to have said this by any means, but any degree of success, and you can measure success in lots of different ways. But it, it's founded on multiple failures. Like, and it, and it has to be like, it can't, it can't be anything other than that, particularly in, I think, in a, a, a creative discipline for sure. And so. It it it's it's sort of having faith in in in yourself and and and knowing that you have to ride the wave. And actually, you do have to be strong. You do have to be mentally strong for that because, you know, there are things like the Edinburgh Fringe, which can

• 25:57Speaker 00

  be brutal, brutal, absolutely brutal.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  You've spoken about that a lot, where you just you had you have no money.

• 26:02Speaker 00

  You've got no money, you've got no audience, you've got and and and, you know, and you're seeing other people just overtake you all the time. And you think, oh, well, what am I doing?

• 26:09Speaker 01

  Have you paid to zero audience before?

• 26:10Speaker 00

  Not zero, but close to. And I remember, I remember one of my first shows at the Underbelly. In fact, it was, it was the first solo show that I ever did at the Fringe.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Great place then.

• 26:21Speaker 00

  It's a mad place. And it it I I think they came up to me, the the like, the front of house said, you've only got like, two people in. Do you want to still do the show? And I was like, oh, yeah, I'll do the show. And one of those people that I knew. And I I also had audience participation in that show. So they they had to keep on getting up on stage. So there were probably times when I was effectively playing to no audience because they were on stage.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  What does that teach you about resilience?

• 26:43Speaker 00

  I mean, it it's mad, but obviously, you do develop a thick skin.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  You just got to.

• 26:48Speaker 00

  You you you kind of have to.

• 26:54Speaker 03

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone and I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh. Anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody, listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for Watch or iPad required. Edition terms apply for all offers.

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• 27:56Speaker 01

  What is your first ever memory?

• 27:58Speaker 00

  Oh, that's a good question. My first ever memory, really early memory of, and I think I must have been three or four, of getting, well, I definitely remember being in like the buggy, the pushchair with the rain cover on, because I remember liking that. I remember liking the sound of rain on the cover. So I must have been, I couldn't have been much older than three or four. And I definitely remember watching like the Paul Daniels Magic Show as a kid, which I must have been five or six. So, so I think those are like my earliest memories when I was sort of three, four, five.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  Because you started doing magic at four years old?

• 28:31Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I got a magic set when I was, my sister was, she got it, a Paul Daniels Magic Set when she was seven for her seventh birthday. And I basically nicked it. So I would have been four and I was obsessed with it and sort of still am. And it's really interesting you saying about that innocence thing, because I think that that's what good magic tricks. I mean, there's a lot of sort of quite sort of corny magic and not great magic out there. But, but, but I think when magic is done well, I think the reason why audiences react to it so well is because it does take them back to a kind of a, it, there's that kind of, that wonder kind of moment where almost anything is possible. Like you sort of know it can't be possible. Like you can't make things float and you can't make things vanish. But, but actually as a kid, those

• 29:12Speaker 00

  things feel completely feasible. And I think when you see a good magic trick and it takes you by surprise and there's that kind of element of wonder, it sort of takes you back to that childhood sort of feeling of like, ah, like being in awe of something. And, and, and I love being an audience member as much as I do performing. And I don't really perform as much anymore as like a straight magician. I mean, I do it sometimes in character as Mr. Swallow.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:34Speaker 00

  But they're kind of sort of slightly secondary to the comedy really now. But I used to work as a magician a lot, but I still love magic and I love watching it. I read probably, I mean, I have a magic book on the go pretty much every day.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  No, you don't.

• 29:46Speaker 00

  Honestly, I've read a bit of a magic book probably every day since I was about four or five.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  You're joking.

• 29:50Speaker 00

  I'm not joking. I do.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  That is wild.

• 29:52Speaker 00

  And I just, and I will, and even if it's like a couple of pages, but I, I've got like a big magic book collection and I still love it. And I love learning new secrets and principles. I mean, I'm not very good at sleight of hand at all, but I, I still love kind of reading about it. And often I'll just read stuff and think, that's absolutely amazing. And because I used to work as a magician a lot, I, I, I still, you know, I, I can still do bits and pieces, but I, I'm really more of a hobbyist now.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  What, what do you think, what do you think that, that taught you for life? Like what skills did learning magic from an early age give you?

• 30:22Speaker 00

  Well, it was.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  That was unexpected?

• 30:24Speaker 00

  That was unexpected. Well, it was definitely a defence mechanism and I probably didn't and a bit of a crutch. And I probably didn't recognise that at the time.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  In what way?

• 30:33Speaker 00

  Well, I guess being a bit of an outsider, look, I'm sure Brown, you know, grew up in the north of England in like the nineties. So it's sort of like, you know, you know, there's, it's not always easy being a kid in that regard. And, you know, went to just a very kind of normal school. So it was very much a, you know, I could survive the playground by just getting out a deck of cards. And, and I remember specifically doing GCSEs and I'm doing design technology. And it just so happened that I was in a class with effectively all the school bullies, all the school bullies and me. I was like, oh no, I've chosen the wrong subject. And, um, and it, and it was absolutely fine. And I look, I know it's not like I was bullied, bullied at all. But, um, but it was, it was definitely the class to kind of just be really, really kind of careful about what you're doing, what you're saying. You just had to kind of keep yourself to yourself and keep your head down.

• 31:18Speaker 00

  But if it ever got a little bit lary, I would just be, and even the teacher, I remember Mr Pike just saying, Nick, get your cards out. And, and I could then, I could sort of entertain them and just sort of keep them at bay a little bit. And that felt like a superpower and sort of was.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  It is.

• 31:31Speaker 00

  And then when I later got into doing comedy when I was a student, I used to always have magic on me in case the comedy was failing. Cause it's so, you're so vulnerable. So it was a bit of a safety net then. And then it's weird how it's now kind of crept back into my comedy through Mr Swallow. Because I was happy to sort of, once I stopped doing weddings and stuff, to just be a magic fan and hobbyist really. But it's nice now to kind of occasionally pop it into things. Like I'm not going to pop it into everything. Like it's not, it's like slow horses. It's like me trying.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:05Speaker 00

  And you could, and you.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  I think at this point, I should really bring out.

• 32:10Speaker 00

  But then oddly enough, Ted Lasso, Jason Stoker is a huge magic like hobbyist. And I mean, he, he does it and does it brilliantly as well. He'd probably say he's a hobbyist, but he is. And, and I remember him having just like a deck of cards always with him through like read throughs and on set, particularly in season one, just all the time. And we, we would like geek out about magic all the time.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  I, I'm great friends with Matt Edmondson, who's a Radio One host. He's an amazing magician. He, he's, he loves magic.

• 32:33Speaker 00

  Like kids books about magic and everything, hasn't he?

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Totally. And he, like you.

• 32:36Speaker 00

  He's good friends with Chris Cox, who used to produce his show, I think, who's also a mentalist.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  He's also a mentalist and it's amazing. And I, I feel like, um, it feels to me that that sort of.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Matt Emerson has similar characteristics to you to like, it feels like it's sort of similar individuals, like sort of geek out to magic.

• 32:55Speaker 00

  Well, I think as well that, you know, that kind of magic origin story of mine is quite typical within magic. It's often a slightly geeky outsider who wants to find a way to fit in or get attention. And, and magic is a really fun way to kind of find that. And then you suddenly discover that there are other magicians. And, you know, you go to magic conventions or magic clubs or magic societies, it's all full of the same personality type.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  But I, what I find so funny is that we're all trying to do the same thing, all trying to fit in.

• 33:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  As humans.

• 33:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Do you know, we had Dynamo on the.

• 33:27Speaker 00

  I love him. Yeah.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Man, he's so great. And.

• 33:29Speaker 00

  I've known him since I was a kid because we, we went to Bradford Magic Circle at the same time. So, yeah. Yeah. He was, I mean, I was 15. He was, I think I'm a tiny bit older than him. He was like 14, 13. But he has always been that. Like that, his, his, his shtick, his style of magic, his tone, his performance style, that is him. And that has been him since he started doing magic.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  Really?

• 33:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  But same story with him, same story with him, you know.

• 33:54Speaker 00

  Oh goodness me. I mean, he's got a hell of a story.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Hell of a story, but you know, had bullying experience, racism experience, like lots of different things. And it was just like brutal at times. And it feels like sort of like, yeah, and he said that magic again for him was the way to deflect.

• 34:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, completely.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  He could bring it out and then suddenly people would go like, okay, he can offer us something.

• 34:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. Definitely.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  You have a magic trick with you today, right?

• 34:20Speaker 00

  I've got cards with me if you wanted to see something.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Are you kidding me? I should be, I want anything. I would love to.

• 34:26Speaker 00

  Do something now?

• 34:27Speaker 01

  Please.

• 34:28Speaker 00

  Okay. Therefore, you should look after. You can keep them in the box.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  Okay. So, so, so Nigga's is handing me a, a pack of playing cards.

• 34:34Speaker 00

  Yes. Let's do.

• 34:37Speaker 00

  I want you to cut off a big, quite, I'm gonna get you to demonstrate what I want you to do. Cut off a chunk of cards like that. Look at the card secretly and then shuffle what's in your hand. But I want you to cut off like a good amount, because obviously I saw all the other cards. So cut off over half, just so we know.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  Okay, I've cut off over half, right?

• 34:55Speaker 00

  And you're happy with the one you're looking at?

• 34:57Speaker 01

  Slime, slime, I'm gonna show the-

• 34:58Speaker 00

  If you want, so I'll turn away.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Okay, there we go.

• 35:00Speaker 00

  And then just shuffle the ones that are in your hand, yes?

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Okay, then I shuffle the ones that are in my hand?

• 35:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, okay.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  So the one that I'm holding with the thing, yeah?

• 35:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly, you can shuffle them all.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm shuffling them, I'm shuffling them.

• 35:10Speaker 00

  I'll put these other ones aside for now.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm shuffling them, I'm shuffling them, I'm shuffling them. Okay, that feels like they're shuffled, okay, done.

• 35:17Speaker 00

  The only thing I know at this point is that the card you cut to, I guess, is in there.

• 35:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:24Speaker 00

  Okay, for now. So, and actually, if you want to, you can shuffle these into them as well.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  I can shuffle those into them?

• 35:33Speaker 00

  If you want.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  I wouldn't mind doing that.

• 35:35Speaker 00

  Okay, fine, yeah, you can do it.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  You sure?

• 35:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely, because what I want you to do, in a second, I'm gonna get you to remove your card and you can place it face up. But I want you to also remove three other cards, which are kind of like red herrings. So you're gonna try and sort of put me off. I'm gonna try and work out what your card is from what you've put down. One of them has to be your card.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 00

  So you might wanna put down the three of clubs with it as well, or you might wanna choose something completely different, like a king of hearts. So you might throw me off. And I'm gonna hopefully be able to tell from the choices that you make here, what your-

• 36:10Speaker 01

  So I'm gonna pick, how many red herrings do you want?

• 36:12Speaker 00

  So let's say, let's do four cards in total, but one of them has to be your card, so three red herrings.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  Three red herrings, okay, okay.

• 36:20Speaker 00

  And you can put them down in any order, you can keep them face down for now if you want, so that there's no kind of sense of, oh, I've taken out my card first, or a red herring first, or anything like that.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:29Speaker 00

  And we'll see how this- How this plays out. It is fun doing magic.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 36:34Speaker 00

  Do you like it? Do you like watching magic?

• 36:35Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 36:37Speaker 00

  Do you?

• 36:37Speaker 01

  I absolutely love it.

• 36:38Speaker 00

  Did Dynamo show you stuff?

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, he did some amazing things. It's just incredible.

• 36:43Speaker 00

  I have no idea how he does it.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Okay, so here's my, here's my four cards with three red herrings.

• 36:47Speaker 00

  So you can, you can present, so you can put them all face up. You can give them a little mix beforehand if you want.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  I'm gonna face them up to you.

• 36:52Speaker 00

  Okay, thank you very much.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Here we go. So move that out of the way. So the cards that I'm putting down right here. Queen of spades.

• 37:00Speaker 00

  Queen of spades, love it.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  Queen of clubs.

• 37:02Speaker 00

  Oh, okay, yeah.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  Jack of clubs.

• 37:04Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Ace of spades.

• 37:05Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. So that's really good. Like, that is really good. That's very good.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Why is that so good?

• 37:11Speaker 00

  Well, it's good because it's sort of like, it shows that you're like, thinking about, okay, I'm thinking about how to throw them off. So for example, this is good because this is obviously the only kind of card that's not a picture card. So that's quite useful.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:23Speaker 00

  This is obviously the only, you know, that, that sort of stands out a little bit as well because you've got a pair of queens. But then it makes you think, well, could it be one of those? But is that a red herring in itself? So it's one of these.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, so have I pushed it.

• 37:32Speaker 00

  You've got two clubs and two spades. So this is very good.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay. I'm glad you like that.

• 37:35Speaker 00

  I really, really liked it.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  I was gonna do all one of the same and then I was gonna do like all of them the same, basically.

• 37:45Speaker 00

  Right.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  So you wouldn't know where it was. Like, if it was, let's say it was a three of spades I'd picked, I was gonna do all threes.

• 37:50Speaker 00

  Yes, great. That's another way. That happens a lot. But that's good as well. But, but your way is great because I, I think there's even more kind of variables in the way that you did it. I want you to, are you left-handed or right-handed?

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Right-handed.

• 38:00Speaker 00

  Okay, so with your left hand, can you lower your left hand onto one of these cards? Just onto one of them?

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 38:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. I, I, I keep, keep, in fact, pull it to one side, but, but keep your hand on it. Now, I'm going to tell you

• 38:13Speaker 00

  that I believe that the card you chose off the back of the things that you showed me was the jack of clubs.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 38:18Speaker 00

  Is that correct?

• 38:20Speaker 01

  Um, do I tell you?

• 38:22Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 38:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:23Speaker 00

  Okay, okay. Yeah. Okay. Just be, just because of the things that you did. But let's see.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  The things I did.

• 38:30Speaker 00

  But let's see whether you managed to do it as well.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Do I pick it up?

• 38:34Speaker 00

  Oh my god. Isn't that mad?

• 38:37Speaker 01

  You are what?

• 38:38Speaker 00

  Isn't that mad? Isn't that mad?

• 38:42Speaker 01

  What was it like working with David Schwimmer?

• 38:44Speaker 00

  Absolutely wonderful. He is the most wonderful person, yeah.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  This is in intelligence.

• 38:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. I had met him

• 38:54Speaker 00

  doing an improv like workshop thing with Julia Davis, who's brilliant as well and

• 38:59Speaker 01

  Improv?

• 39:00Speaker 00

  Like an improv, well, it was a pilot, it was a pilot for Channel Four, but particularly the way Julia likes to work, she likes to improvise around like a sort of skeleton script, I guess. And that was really fun and thrilling. And we'd created this pilot, which was called Morning Has Broken, which was about, it was sort of before the Morning Show and before this time with Alan Partridge. So it was, it was, it felt quite like an original idea at the time. It probably wouldn't feel as original now because there's been two other really hit brilliant shows since then. But it was, it was sort of a spoof of kind of the behind the scenes of Morning Tally.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  Frustrating when you pitch that and then suddenly you see a show and you're like.

• 39:37Speaker 00

  But you know, it happens and it happens all the time.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  I would be annoyed. I knew it would work and here it is.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  It happens all the time.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  I know.

• 39:44Speaker 00

  But, but it, but it was great fun to do, really great fun to do. We had this pilot and the pilot's great, actually. I think you can find it on YouTube. And, and oddly, David ended up just watching it. I think one of the finances of the show was Sony Studios and David was doing some work with them in the States and he, he just got round to just seeing it. They, I think they just said, oh, you'll find this really funny. It wasn't like, it was not, it was not like we'd sent it to him or anything. And then, and then the producer just sort of phoned and said, oh, David Schwimmer really likes the show. He'd like to call, literally, he just wants to call you and talk to you about it. And I was like, what? And I remember just taking this call and I think Finn had just been born, I remember.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  This is your eldest.

• 40:21Speaker 00

  Our eldest, yeah. And, and I remember turning the phone to Becca so she could like hear that it was like, it's Ross and Friends, it's Ross and Friends. Because he's got such a kind of iconic voice as well. And you know, who hasn't of like our generation, like grown up watching Friends and. And so it's absolutely mad, but but it is that thing of, you know, there's that sort of thing of, oh, don't meet heroes, but do if they're nice as Schwinn. Because he is, he was so nice and the A, the fact that he said, oh, yeah, I'll do that. So we we we got on really well, I should say. So we got on really well. That show Morning is Broken didn't happen, but he just sort of said, oh, if you ever have a an idea for a show that could um allow for like an American coming in and not feeling sort of too shoehorned, just let me know. And I was like, I'm sure he says that to everyone. I'm sure that can't be right.

• 41:02Speaker 00

  And then about a year later, I had a script commissioned from Expectation Entertainment, who produced the show. And um and I wanted to write this idea of a sitcom set at GCHQ. So it's just these sort of oddball characters, but you've got these huge stakes of national security. I found that quite funny, just sort of marrying of of two ideas.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  That is funny.

• 41:19Speaker 00

  And and and just sort of sort of automatically funny that there is sort of these sort of slightly awkward people dealing with this really serious stuff. And um and then I thought, well, actually, it's not too like alien to have this idea that an NSA agent might be kind of coming on almost like a sabbatical to work with GCHQ, you know, the equivalent organisation in the States. And so I just sort of sent him like, I think literally like a one page treatment, not even a script. And he's like, oh, yeah, when we filming it? And I was like, well, it hasn't been commissioned. And then I wrote a script and then it went to series. And so, yeah, it was just wonderful, just really kind of organic and and nice.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Because you've now, you've you've produced a lot, you've written a lot, you've starred a lot. Like, are you comfortable with being yourself on stage or performing as a character?

• 42:00Speaker 00

  Well, no, as a character, infinitely more.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  Why, though?

• 42:06Speaker 00

  I just find it funny. I just don't think anyone wants to hear me. Like, I'm not as funny as me. Like, i- i- if I'm swallow, you know, it's just instantly kind of more characterful and interesting and entertaining. Like, it just.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  Because this is Mr. Swallow, your character.

• 42:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. So I just find that.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  You disassociate yourself almost. You you become the character, which means you can just be.

• 42:23Speaker 00

  Completely.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Really?

• 42:25Speaker 00

  It was re- it's really weird now because I've been doing it for so long. So it's so Show Pony, which is the tour that finishes next week, actually. But I just shot a special for it, the NBC Universal are producing and um. Sort of end up on Netflix or Apple somewhere at some point later in the year probably. And we shot it in Leeds because the character's from Leeds and the character is based on an impression of a school teacher I did at high school. So, you know, I've done that voice, you know, since I was fifteen, you know, I've impersonated this teacher since then. So, I mean.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  Can we hear a bit of Mrs. Swallow?

• 42:56Speaker 00

  Well, yes. So, you know, he kind of talks like that and, you know, just sort of got that attitude of just being like. And, and she, so she's a she. So she, she, so it's quite camp, but it's only because I'm sort of being her, like, there's no innuendo in it or anything.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:08Speaker 00

  So, but it is just, you know, like, you know, sort of like that a lot. And, um. And obvi- obviously, hopefully, that is very different to who I am.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:16Speaker 00

  As an individual. And so it became weirdly.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Does the teacher know it's based on her?

• 43:22Speaker 00

  I don't think she ever did. She sadly passed away about ten years ago, but, but no, I don't, I, I categorically don't think. And, and there have been. Teachers who taught me around that time who've come to see the show when I've been up in Leeds.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Really?

• 43:32Speaker 00

  And, and, and they're all over, so who's this? But yeah, she taught, she taught us GCSE English and she was outrageous. And show pony is basically about her. It's about her being a show pony, like using teaching as a platform to show off, which was what she was clearly a frustrated performer. Like, I wanna be.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  With so many teachers.

• 43:49Speaker 00

  Completely.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  I know, so many teachers.

• 43:51Speaker 00

  It's like a real, like, have you ever seen Summer Heights High?

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:53Speaker 00

  Like Mr. G. Like, it was so, I mean, she didn't teach us, she taught us English rather than drama. But, but she just liked the sound of her own voice and she would stomp in. And just be like, right, we're gonna have a debate about capital punishment. And we're like, why? Like, why? Why are we, and, and, and out of nowhere, and it's just because she suddenly had this view about capital punishment she needed to get off her chest. And we're like fifteen.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  What, what, what would Mr. Swallow say? That's like, that is.

• 44:20Speaker 00

  But it's real. I swear I'm not making it up. That is real. And my ma- and my mates who are like, my best mate Lou, who, who I like, was like, from like, middle school, like, who I've known him since I was like eight. He, when, when Becker and I got married, he was my best man. And he toasted this teacher, um, and named her, I've never named her, but like, toasted her because he's like, he says, I owe my whole career and life to her. Because he says, without that voice and without that attitude. But he, he witnessed all the same things that I talk about in like my shows. Because we were all just there. We all just like lived through that incredible experience.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  It's it's amazing that that when you when you get a character like that and you can disassociate yourself, disassociate yourself. So you become the character and then the character can say and do anything.

• 45:01Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  Without you becoming self-conscious almost.

• 45:03Speaker 00

  Yes, yes.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  And so, yeah, performing as someone, something or someone else is better.

• 45:07Speaker 00

  Well, it's weird. The weirdest thing I found, so literally at the weekend, we were recording, we went back to my old school to record some like talking heads, me in character with talking heads, as if it's like a bit of a documentary as well, which we're into sort of kind of intercutting with the live show, I think. And um, and so we were in my old form classroom and and the um brilliant live producer Owen Donovan from Burkes Nest, he was, we needed like an eye line for the, because it was as if it was like an off camera interviewer. So he was just sat there for the eye line. But I was sort of chatting to him like this, like this. And then suddenly would kind of go into it. And he had to keep a straight face because he knows if he laughed, I would laugh. I would like ruin the take. But I just realised that it is really weird. Like, it is really weird to kind of, because I get so in it that I I will I will look at him and I'm making eye contact, but I'm making eye contact with him

• 45:52Speaker 00

  as someone else. And that is what, because it is different to me.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  Is it really?

• 45:55Speaker 00

  If I'm swallow, even though it looks like me and, you know, I don't put a wig on or.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Can you riff totally as swallow then? So you could totally riff?

• 46:02Speaker 00

  And anything, and and now I've just got a phone, my phone notes are just, if I, if something happens, I often think of the reaction that Mr. Swallow will say, because and it's often inappropriate. Not not rude or on the edge, but it's just, it's not, it's the wrong thing to say. But I'll write it down because it'll make me laugh. And so I'll just have like phone notes of ideas and things like that.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  So what would swallow say about like the football World Cup?

• 46:26Speaker 00

  Couldn't care less. Like, just not interested, just not interested.

• 46:32Speaker 00

  Don't, don't, you know, just wouldn't understand.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  So good.

• 46:40Speaker 00

  Hey, it's Adam Grant from Ted's Rethink.

• 46:42Speaker 07

  Podcast. As businesses scale, success depends on how well knowledge is captured, shared and kept up to date. Camtasia Pro turns teams' expertise into engaging training, onboarding and documentation. No professional editing experience required. With the industry's best screen recording, video editing and AI-powered workflows, you can train faster and boost operational efficiency. Get over a hundred dollars off your first year at camtasia pro.com and start building a smarter way to educate customers, onboard employees and ensure valuable expertise is shared across teams.

• 47:14Speaker 04

  Five hundred orders a month was manageable. Five thousand is madness. Embrace intelligent order fulfillment with ShipStation, the only platform combining order management, warehouse workflows, inventory, returns and analytics in one place. What used to take five separate tools, ShipStation does in one. Automate fulfillment and rate shopping to ship up to fifteen times more with up to ninety percent savings. Go to shipstation.com and use code AUDIO to try ShipStation free for sixty days.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Nick, listen, thank you so much. Thank you for entertaining millions of us.

• 47:50Speaker 00

  Oh, God.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Like, you really do. And just so many things you've done and giving us your time today. You're beyond great company. So, thank you so much.

• 47:56Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  We like to finish the show with eight quickfire questions.

• 47:59Speaker 00

  Oh, great. Eight.

• 48:01Speaker 01

  Eight.

• 48:01Speaker 00

  Eight, okay.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Are you ready for this?

• 48:03Speaker 00

  I'm ready, yeah.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile and cheers you up?

• 48:07Speaker 00

  Well, it's a Ted Lasso phrase and it is, it's be curious, not judgmental. And I do think it is a very good one. That if at any point I feel myself judging, even if it's just in my head, I'm like judging something or a situation or a person or something, I'm just like, hang on, just think about maybe why they're being like that or why this has come about. And just trying to try and step. I think that's a really good one.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  We didn't even mention the fact that you're a two-time Emmy nominated actor. Nominated actor.

• 48:32Speaker 00

  Well, it's, I mean, I sort of can't believe it. So it's fine that we don't mention it. I'll tell you what, when I found out that-

• 48:38Speaker 01

  This is all for Ted Lasso. We haven't really even touched on-

• 48:40Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, Ted Lasso.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  That little Ted Lasso show.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  Season four, August. I, I found out that I got nominated for Miami when I was having my first COVID vaccination. Like, literally, I was walking in to the point where I wanted to tell the person administering the jab and then just thought it'd be really well. I've been nominated for an Emmy. I've been nominated for an Emmy. I, I, I mean, that's, that is proper imposter. I cannot believe that. That was mad.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  Was it mad?

• 49:04Speaker 00

  Yeah. And also, like, kind of like, I don't necessarily feel like I've earned that. Like, I think that- Everyone got really weird. I mean, maybe season two. Season one, I'm like, I just got really lucky. I think everyone, oh, just let's just nominate everyone in Ted Lasso, kind of thing. But um, I could not believe it.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  Is it weird, that whole thing?

• 49:21Speaker 00

  Yes, yes, because it's sort of.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  And when your name comes up, are you, in your head, are you thinking, it's gonna be me?

• 49:28Speaker 00

  Well.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  A little bit.

• 49:29Speaker 00

  Like, yes and no. Like, like, the first time, absolutely not. I was just like, I cannot believe I'm even here. Like, to, to witness this. And um, and Brett won, who's brilliant, and I've known Brett since, you know, we started in comedy together at the same time. So I've known Brett for years and, and rightly so, he won, he had such a bigger part and did so much more fun and great stuff in it. I was like, great. And then, when we both got nominated then, the next year, and um, and, and I had as, as a part, as a role in the show, that was sort of the, when it becomes sort of quite dark and it became quite dramatic and stuff. And I was like, I probably, like, like, if, if I were to win, I'd feel far more deserving of it.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  Cause you like, there's a bit more depth.

• 50:08Speaker 00

  Yes, a little bit, but, but I certainly didn't expect to. And um, uh, I don't know, so.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Is it?

• 50:16Speaker 00

  But there's possibly, there is, I mean, it's just, it's literally just moments before they, they say, cause they obviously play the clips. And you're like, oh, there I am, you know, on screen.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  There I am.

• 50:26Speaker 00

  And like, people, and you know, people applaud and you kind of then try and judge it by the whoops.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. You're like, oh god.

• 50:31Speaker 00

  Cause they're playing like little VT clips of every single person nominated. Well, no, but you're kind of like, was that louder than the one that happens from your back? You can't help but be a little bit vain in that moment.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  And you can't help.

• 50:41Speaker 00

  Also, the camera's on you, which is embarrassing. So like, I'm not thinking about this. And um.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  It's an element of disappointment.

• 50:50Speaker 00

  No, not, not.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  You're too good. I would be like.

• 50:53Speaker 00

  Not, not for, I think, I think there were things like, I would say, the, the most disappointed I've been in like, in this industry is probably, I've never been nominated for the Comedy Award in Edinburgh. And I, I think, I, I think it's fair to say that I have been close to being nominated in my head, because there's not a set number, they could nominate five or six people, they'd sort of just choose. And, and.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  Is this for the Perry Awards?

• 51:15Speaker 00

  It used to be called the Perry, yeah. And there's been multiple times when I've gone up to Edinburgh with, with, I think, good shows and. Probably got quite close to it, but never ever been nominated. And that's the one that if if ever there was something that stings, I'm like, oh, I'm like, why guys come on nominate me. I really wanna. That'd have been great. And like, but an Emmy, I was like, I mean, I'm just lucky to be like, I couldn't believe it. So to win would have been, I mean, of course, I'd be like, that's nuts. But I just to be nominated was like.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  Amazing. Best compliment anyone's ever given you.

• 51:43Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. Are you Simon Bird?

• 51:48Speaker 01

  Perfect. Perfect answer. What scares you most about yourself?

• 51:52Speaker 00

  Um, a slight workaholic. Slight workaholic. As in, as in, I do sometimes struggle to say, say no, because because I still have that fear and that sort of has been, I guess, sort of in me and fear is probably, again, not the right right word, but that desire to succeed. And, you know, when you're really grafting and doing Edinburgh and hustling for work and doing open mic spots and stuff like that, you're constantly looking for the next paycheck. And even, you know, now when I'm very lucky and sort of financially comfortable, you know, and, you know, seem to still be working and stuff. So you've sort of got to accept the fact that this is what I do for a living. And that even though I don't, I literally don't know what I'm doing after July. Like, I genuinely don't, but I've got to hope that there will be something, you know.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  Do you still think that, do you still think that, like, how am I doing this?

• 52:38Speaker 00

  I've got to take this gig. Yeah, yeah. And again, it's imposter syndrome, but there is still an element of like, well, I probably do need to take that gig. Because, you know, what if I don't have anything else? What if I don't get that audition? What if I don't get this? And what if the series I'm pitching doesn't get picked up? And so, yeah, so, so there is then a danger that you kind of just keep working and you don't take the sort of time, time off.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  So great to hear that. I think for so many people, that doesn't ever leave you. It never quite goes. When was the last time you cried?

• 53:03Speaker 00

  Oh, um, not, not for, because often I'll just cry at anything. But that, but weirdly not for a while. Um, it would have been probably.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Do you cry at movies, TV shows?

• 53:16Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. I was gonna say it would have been, it would have been telly.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  What's something you can't let go of?

• 53:22Speaker 00

  Oh, what can I not let go of?

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Have you had a role that you didn't get in your life?

• 53:25Speaker 00

  Oh, I see. Um.

• 53:29Speaker 00

  What can I not let go of?

• 53:31Speaker 01

  There might be nothing. Not winning the comedy.

• 53:36Speaker 00

  Well, it's just more not even being nominated. So maybe that's the one. Yeah, that's it. Unfinished business there. And now I'm not eligible. It's really annoying.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  What's your guilty pleasure?

• 53:47Speaker 00

  Made in Chelsea.

• 53:51Speaker 00

  I'm not joking.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  Are you serious?

• 53:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, more recently, my wife and I will watch it. Yeah.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  I've been watching it recently. It's so good.

• 53:57Speaker 00

  It's great. It's really, really good.

• 53:59Speaker 01

  It's unbelievable.

• 54:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We do. It is our guilty pleasure. And we're like, when's the next one? When's the next one? And we're like, are they going away in the summer holidays? We want to watch that. So, yeah.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  Go back to Corsica, whatever happened. That was just phenomenal. What turns you off?

• 54:13Speaker 00

  Uh, rudeness. Just rude, rude. I mean, it is one thing I cannot understand. And, you know, this industry, as in this industry is definitely surrounded by its healthy share of rude people.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  I find it shocking when I meet people within this industry who continue to do well. And I'm just like, they're so rude.

• 54:31Speaker 00

  Because it's slightly rewarded. You know, certainly when you get kind of quite, I think, I think this of, I'm not at this stage by any means, but when, when certain actors get to a certain level. And, yeah, and at the end of it, it's still pretend. You could be doing it, you could be playing whatever role and it could be serious and it could be upsetting. But it's still pretend and it's still an absolute luxury to be doing this and getting paid that amount.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 54:53Speaker 00

  So to then be, to be rude, I'm like, oh, it really doesn't.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  But I think it comes round at some point.

• 55:00Speaker 00

  I hope so, but, but, and, and there are elements within the industry where you know, where people are like, I'm, we just don't want to work with this person.

• 55:10Speaker 01

  Have you seen it firsthand?

• 55:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 55:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, particularly when I was first starting out. But I've seen it more recently like that. And that now I feel obviously a lot more comfortable to call it out. But there were definitely, there was definitely a time at the start of my career in telly, where I was working with someone who, who will remain nameless. I can take off. But, um, was at the height of, at the height of them kind of breaking through. And they were notoriously rude. And, and, and it was gross. It was just like watching a school bully. And, and undoubtedly stemmed from insecurity as it always does. But it's just like, oh, come on, like, really? And I wish, I wish I'd had the guts to speak up at that point, but didn't. Because I was sort of too junior. But, you know, there were other more senior people there who were also letting it fly. And it's just a bit like.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  Um, what turns you on?

• 55:58Speaker 00

  A sense of humour. Yeah.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  What do you like most about yourself?

• 56:03Speaker 00

  Um, my body.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  I was gonna, it was on the tip of my tongue.

• 56:09Speaker 00

  My really sexy body.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  It's my looks and my face.

• 56:13Speaker 00

  My big nose, my short stature, my fat stubby hands. I mean, what's not to like? My moles.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  I think you're beautiful.

• 56:22Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  No, what is it? What do you think it is?

• 56:25Speaker 00

  Uh, oh, it's different. You can't answer that yourself.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  You have to, you have to.

• 56:28Speaker 00

  I mean, I like, I, I'd like to think that I, I can get on with a lot of people. Like, I, I, I, I've always liked, like, just, you know, had lots of kind of friends or like colleagues and stuff like, where it's always just fun and like, you know, lots of different groups of people to kind of just chat to and offload to and tell stories about it. Like, so I, I enjoy kind of, I guess, that.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  Nick, thank you so much for coming on.

• 56:52Speaker 00

  Thank you for having me. This has been a pleasure.

• 56:54Speaker 01

  You're the best company. Thank you so much.

• 56:56Speaker 00

  Thank you very much. Thank you, everybody. Thank you for having me.

• 57:12Speaker 07

  Hey, it's Adam Grant from TED's Rethinking Podcast. As businesses scale, success depends on how well knowledge is captured, shared, and kept up to date. Camtasia Pro turns teams' expertise into engaging training, onboarding, and documentation. No professional editing experience required. With the industry's best screen recording, video editing, and AI-powered workflows, you can train faster and boost operational efficiency. Get over a hundred dollars off your first year at camtasia pro dot com and start building a smarter way to educate customers, onboard employees, and ensure valuable expertise is shared across teams.

• 57:45Speaker 04

  Five hundred orders a month was manageable. Five thousand is madness. Embrace intelligent order fulfillment with ShipStation, the only platform combining order management, warehouse workflows, inventory, returns, and analytics in one place. Would use to take five separate tools ShipStation does in one. Automate fulfillment and rate shopping to ship up to 15 times more with up to 90% savings. Go to shipstation.com and use code AUDIO to try ShipStation free for 60 days.