JANETTE MANRARA: Losing Out on the Strictly Job Has Changed How I See Rejection

Janette Manrara has been a fan favourite on Strictly Come Dancing for 14 years, first as one of its professional dancers and then as the co-host of its spin-off show, It Takes Two. I first met Janette during my time on Strictly and from the moment we met, her love of dance was completely infectious. Earlier this year, Janette announced she would no longer be part of It Takes Two. In our conversation, she opens up about what it was like to say goodbye to the show that's shaped much of her career, and why she's more excited than ever about what comes next. Janette shares: What it felt like to miss out on the Strictly hosting jobWhat working on Strictly Come Dancing was likeDiscovering who she was outside of dancing before becoming a mumWhy her biggest goal in life is to go to Cuba Janette brings pure joy to every room she walks into. She is a reminder that when one dream comes to an end, it doesn’t mean the story is over. Janette Manrara is Great Company. Janette stars in Affluenza, now playing at Riverside Studios. Find out more HERE https://affluenzariverside.tixculture.com/london/shows/47279-affluenza If you enjoyed the show, you can also follow us: Instagram - @greatcompanypodcast TikTok - @greatcompanypodcast Jamie - @jamielaing And if you've got thoughts, questions and comments, you can email us at: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] THE CREDITS Producer: Faye Lawrence Assistant Producer: Issy Weeks-Hankins Video: Josh Bennett Senior Social Media Manager: Laura Coughlan Audio: Rafi Amsili Geovannetti Senior Producer: Helen Burke Shot on Sony Cinema Line cameras FX6, FX2 with Sony G-Master lenses 16-35GM, 24-70GM Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I just went through the biggest rejection of my career. I sobbed for weeks, I'm not gonna even begin to lie.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  It is probably the biggest job on TV, to host Strictly Come Dancing.

• 0:07Speaker 00

  I remember coming home and it was a really hard pill to swallow. When you just put it on paper, you assume, okay, I've got a shot because all the pieces were there.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  When they tell you don't get the job, what did you want to do?

• 0:22Speaker 00

  I mean.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  I would be fucked off.

• 0:27Speaker 01

  Can I ask you about the controversy with Strictly?

• 0:30Speaker 00

  Which one?

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Some professionals being too potentially aggressive with their training tactics.

• 0:37Speaker 00

  I'll start by saying this. Hi, I'm Jeanette Manrara and I'm in great company.

• 0:41Speaker 02

  The pocket rocket of the ballroom.

• 0:43Speaker 00

  Put your hands together for Jeanette. I just knew I wanted to entertain. I don't know if I'd be here or doing the things that I'm doing without the support of my family, my husband.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  What is it like competing against Ali Ash?

• 0:54Speaker 00

  My first year on Strictly, we were in the dance off every single week. When he won, I was so happy, I screamed. At least one of us brought it home, right? And I'm like, damn it, it wasn't me!

• 1:06Speaker 01

  You became a mom at thirty-nine.

• 1:08Speaker 00

  I came off contraception and I had this stupid idea in my head that it was gonna happen in 2.5 seconds. And I started IVF journey. We're doing this because we want more love in our life, not because we lack love in our life. It's so bizarre because once we started the IVF journey, Lyra ended up coming naturally. A lot of who you are and who you become in life matters massively on where you're born. You feel a bit like an imposter. I've experienced American, I've experienced British, but I've not experienced Cuban.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Have you gone back to Cuba?

• 1:36Speaker 00

  No, that is kind of like my biggest, um, goal in life is to go. Yeah.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  Why does that make you emotional?

• 2:20Speaker 03

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• 4:18Speaker 01

  Jeanette Manrara is on the show, guys. We cannot wait. Strictly Come Dancing legend. She's actually just left. She was in the lineup to host the actual Strictly show. She didn't quite get it and she opens up about that on the episode today, plus so much more. It's a really amazing episode. Now, before we start, as our community, you guys are incredible. We wanna hear more from you. So we wanna know what you wanna see more of. Is it better guests? Is it different parts of the show? Is it more of me? Whatever it is, let us know in the show comments, because we're gonna copy that, we're gonna follow that, we're gonna use that. Okay? And before we start, just one other quick thing. If you can, please click that subscribe button. It's completely free, it does us wonders, and you can join our amazing community. All right, here we go. Enjoy this incredible episode of Great Company with Jeanette Manrara.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  So your tiredness levels, you're good?

• 5:05Speaker 00

  I'm great.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  You're amazing, you always have the best energy.

• 5:07Speaker 00

  No, you know why? Because I've just not slept for three years. And I'm used to it now.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  So now you just get on with it?

• 5:13Speaker 00

  She still doesn't sleep through the night. So, it's fine. I think I've just cracked on. Also, fun fact, if you partied hard before you became a parent, it's easier.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  Thank you. That's why, that's why I think I can take it.

• 5:28Speaker 00

  Actually, I don't.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  In my twenties, I didn't sleep with who?

• 5:30Speaker 00

  No, but really, like, at least now we wake up and we're not hungover.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  In your eyes, what makes a good coffee?

• 5:34Speaker 00

  I like creamy coffee.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  So what is your coffee order?

• 5:36Speaker 00

  At the moment, almond milk cappuccino.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 5:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know, who am I? But I do love a cafe bustelo, or, I'm getting Cuban now.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Okay, you got Cuban for me.

• 5:46Speaker 00

  You need to have a proper Cuban coffee someday, I promise. You actually don't need it now that I'm thinking about it. It is so strong, it's like 50% sugar.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  So how do you say it in?

• 5:57Speaker 00

  Cafe guano.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Cafe guano?

• 5:59Speaker 00

  Cafe guano. That's it.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  And it's that good?

• 6:01Speaker 00

  And it's that amazing. But I only have those on like the sleepless, sleepless nights that I get with Lyra. Those nights, those mornings, I'll have a Cuban coffee.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  So how many do you have in a day?

• 6:10Speaker 00

  I just have two, maybe three on a bad day, but max maybe, yeah, three.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Lyra's your daughter.

• 6:15Speaker 00

  She's my daughter, she just turned three. What the actual F, man? I have a three-year-old child. I sometimes still look at her and I go, how am I a mother?

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:26Speaker 00

  How, who gave me that responsibility?

• 6:28Speaker 01

  What do you think, what do you think the, if you look at Jeanette before your baby and after, what's the difference?

• 6:34Speaker 00

  I love this question because I do genuinely feel I'm the most version of myself I have ever been.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Explain.

• 6:41Speaker 00

  Before you become a parent, and this is like, I think everybody's journey is totally different, right? This is just mine.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:46Speaker 00

  Before I became a mom, I was always kind of like, go with the flow, have fun, go on the nights out, do my own things, career, travel, do this, do that. But there was an element of like, but who am I really? Like, who am I? What am I gonna bring to the table, to this world and to the planet that we live in, you know? Or to my relationship with Ali Ash, my husband, or as a daughter.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  And you would consciously think that or no?

• 7:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would, I'm a deep thinker.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  You would really, so you would, because I think that.

• 7:12Speaker 00

  But I think that's my problem, maybe our problem. I overthink sometimes. And I would do that a lot before I became a mother. And then after I became a mother, you don't have time to overthink, there's no time. And in a lot of ways, I now feel more like myself than I have ever felt in my life. Because I know, I think I know exactly who I am and what I believe in and where I wanna go and where I've been and what I wanna raise her like and what I wanna teach her about. And all those kind of big conversations of like, well, what is it to be human? You know? And I'm getting to do that with her now. And I can't teach that to someone if I don't know it for myself first.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  I think I'm starting to feel the same. You stop caring about the outside world as much. You care about your world, which is here, which is really important. So you basically, in my version and my personal journey, stop caring as much what people think.

• 7:58Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Which is, which is a great thing. And you do, you start living more authentically yourself, because you're living for yourself rather than for what other people you wanna be perceived as.

• 8:06Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Which is kind of a beautiful way that you, you start to live. You start to be like, oh, you feel happier.

• 8:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, exhausted. But happier, exactly that, because you just don't have time to think about who you are. You only have time to give this precious thing the best version of you, to give them the best chance at life.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  So when you were growing up, what did you want to achieve? What did you want to do?

• 8:34Speaker 00

  So when I was little, I was very bossy. And I, I would put shows on for my family all the time. I didn't know what I wanted to do specifically. Like, I didn't say, I wanna be a singer, I wanna be an actor, I wanna be... I just knew I wanted to entertain, but I liked putting on shows.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Well, because it was the attention that you got? As well as the kind of art of it?

• 8:52Speaker 00

  I don't know, I was two, two, three. I think maybe at the time, attention. I just liked the attention. But then also, I liked kind of picking the costumes and what's the story we're gonna tell today? Like, and then as I got older, I fell more and more in love with like, the story side of all of it. And then when I was 12, I got a, a job, actually, on a TV show called Sabado Gigante, which is...

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Sabado hanging?

• 9:12Speaker 00

  Sabado Gigante, Giant Saturday. It's like a variety show. It's like Sunday Night at the Palladium kind of thing, where they just like, did a bit of everything. And they had a segment where kids would come on and like, sit and talk with the host. And um, we'd do like, shows and performances and like, it was only a segment, but it was on every Saturday. So I was a part of that show. So I've been doing television since I was 12, which is quite wild. And I remember just thinking, I don't know what I'm gonna do or where it's gonna go, but I like this world of, you know, entertaining and singing and dancing and acting. And I just thought, I didn't wanna box myself either. I think as always as a kid, I liked ballet, and then I liked jazz, and then I liked to sing, and then I liked to dance, and then I liked to tell stories. And then I like, I was a bit like here, there and everywhere. Maybe some form of ADHD, and I didn't know it.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  But, but hang on, but, because I had a rumor that you planned to go into finance first.

• 10:02Speaker 00

  I did.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  So, so, and what I need, what I need on, because you went to the University of Florida, right?

• 10:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, at Florida International University.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Florida International University. Your, your parents, were they happy for you to go down a road of this like, uncertainty? Or did they want you to go down a route?

• 10:17Speaker 00

  They said Plan A, Plan B.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Right, okay.

• 10:20Speaker 00

  Plan A, go for gold. Go for gold, chase those big dreams, don't stop. Plan B though, have a backup plan, because if it doesn't work out, you still gotta pay the bills someday in life.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  That's such great advice.

• 10:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, so it was Plan A, Plan B, and Plan A was the dream. Plan B was like, okay, what else can I do that I, that'll just give me stability in life? Or that, if it doesn't work out, I can come back to it.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  And that was finance?

• 10:44Speaker 00

  And that was finance. I was really smart in school, not smart in life, but I was like, math smart, nerdy smart. So, I got a full scholarship, I graduated with a 4.0 GPA, top of my class.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  Get outta here! Sorry, what? You nerd, that's unbelievable.

• 11:02Speaker 00

  I am a nerd, because I still like learning.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 11:06Speaker 00

  But I graduated top of the class, which meant I can go to any public university in the whole southeastern hemisphere of the US, which is cool. But I remember I turned 18 and um...

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Did you have a boyfriend or anything at the time?

• 11:17Speaker 00

  Lots. That's a no, that's a book.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Is it really?

• 11:22Speaker 00

  Ali Ash is very lucky.

• 11:27Speaker 00

  When you go to uni, I don't know if it's the same here, you have to kind of put, well, what's your major? What, what do you wanna do?

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I sort of, yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 00

  I got there and I was like, well, I, I don't know. I just got really good grades, and I remember thinking, well, I'm really good in math. And then my aunt at the time, two of my aunts were all working, were both working at a bank.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  So they were like, well, look, if you wanna start working and make your own money, and you are going to university anyways, why don't you start working at the bank? You can have a bit of a job there, and then you can go to university. And I was like, okay. But then the job that I got ended up being a full-time job. It was eight to five, eight to six, Monday through Friday. And my parents were like, if you're gonna do that, then maybe focus on, on something that is in relation to the job that you have. So I was like, okay, well, if I'm working in finance at a bank, I might as well get a degree in finance. Are you not talking about sliding doors? I wonder what that Jeanette would have been like? Because I didn't finish my bachelor's degree, which is always a big regret of mine, that I didn't finish it. But it's only because dancing took off.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  So what was the sliding door moment?

• 12:24Speaker 00

  The sliding door moment was when So You Think You Can Dance came along in the USA, and I auditioned and I got it. But I remember...

• 12:30Speaker 01

  And how old are you?

• 12:31Speaker 00

  I was 23, which is older.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  But you started dancing probably when you were 19, right?

• 12:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I was doing musical theater and TV work when I was a kid first. So dancing was like, we'd have ballet like, one hour a week, and then maybe like, dan- movement for actors kind of stuff, or whatever we were doing. And then the guy that ran the dance program with the musical theater school, opened up a dance school when I was 18. And he was like, you can really dance, you should really pursue this seriously. And I was like, okay.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Because you could just move?

• 13:02Speaker 00

  No, I, I could, I could move, but I couldn't, I wasn't very technical. Like, I could never do what are called pirouettes, or go on my releve, or have a good turnout. Or I wasn't technically great, I just was salsa.

• 13:18Speaker 00

  But he was like, but you can, you can do this if you put yourself to it. And I remember going, gosh, I'm almost 19 now, and like, how am I gonna make a career out of dancing?

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Is that late, so I understand?

• 13:27Speaker 00

  Very late, so...

• 13:28Speaker 01

  So, so what is, would someone...

• 13:29Speaker 00

  So Darcy Bussel started dancing ballet, I assume, at the age of like, five. Ali Ash did a frame of all room when he was three, you know what I mean? So it's like, I'm a bit of a late bloomer, and I remember going...

• 13:43Speaker 01

  That's talent, that's natural talent.

• 13:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  It must be.

• 13:47Speaker 00

  And lunacy.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  And drive. It's drive, lunacy, it's all of that combined.

• 13:51Speaker 00

  So, but I, I knew that I wanted to keep doing something. I got the university degree, I got the job at the bank. So I was like, when and how am I gonna do this? So I remember from 18 to 23, I had zero life. Because I was working, normal nine to five job at the bank, going to university every evening. I remember I planned it out so I can squish like, three hours of classes right after work. So I had two days in the week at least that I can go to dance. And then on Saturdays, I would spend from like, 8am, 9am in the morning, to like, 2 or 3pm in the afternoon in the dance studio.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 14:26Speaker 00

  And that was just for me, dancing became more than like, what I wanted to do in my life. It became my therapy to cope with exams and work and everything that I had going on in my life at the time. But then, when So You Think You Can Dance came to Miami, I was 20, actually, the first time, I think I was 22. I flew actually to audition somewhere in the East Coast, I can't remember where it was. And I got all the way to the top like, 100, and then to the top, I think they get down...

• 14:53Speaker 01

  How many people?

• 14:54Speaker 00

  There are thousands. I mean, just in the city that I went in, there was 1,000 people that went to audition. And I got to the top 100 that get flown then to Las Vegas. And then out of those 100, they pick like, the top 30. And then out of the top 30, they pick the top 20 that actually get on the show. The first time around, I got to top 30, and I thought I had it, and they were filming me so much. And I was like, pfft, in the bag. I walked into the room, and I was like, salsa.

• 15:24Speaker 00

  Exactly, I was like, I'm, I've got this, and then it was...

• 15:26Speaker 01

  See you everybody on TV.

• 15:29Speaker 00

  I was calling my family going, guys, get ready, this is gonna be the most epic reveal. But, but then, I didn't get it.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  Bring me back to that moment, what is, what is it?

• 15:38Speaker 00

  Ooh, it was the first hard, hard-hitting, kind of obvious no of my life. Because at the time, I wasn't really auditioning, I was working, I was dancing, I had big eyes, big dreams, and I was like, this is my moment. And because I got that close to the final like, selection of the people that would get on the show, I was optimistic, and I just thought I had it. And you know how the TV world works, they love a bit of drama. So because I had the cameras on me all the time, I assumed it's in the bag. Because little did I know, I was gonna be the sob story of the episode. So it was really a big lesson in like, what it feels like to go for something and not get it.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  And also, I imagine, you were that little girl performing, your parents loving it, you're the best, you're the best, you're achieving everything in life.

• 16:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  So everything is like...

• 16:26Speaker 00

  Everything's been great.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Everything's great, I can get this, I can do this. You, I, I can da- like, everything, nothing, and then you get bang, that no.

• 16:33Speaker 00

  Massive no.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  And it's confusing, that.

• 16:36Speaker 00

  Very hard to swallow, very difficult to come out of. Because my brain and my ego was so big, because everything had been going great in, in terms of my career and school and everything. And I was dancing really well, like, I was at one of the, the peak of my dancing career, really. So I just, I just thought I had it in the bag, and then it just didn't happen. And I remember feeling really, really depressed, actually, because I had to go back to work at the bank. And like, imagine going from like, this dream opportunity to be in LA, dancing every day on the TV show, to, hey, hi, so how do you wanna handle your mortgage this week? It was really hard, really hard. And I remember thinking, the only way I can survive how I feel is if I just kept dancing.

• 17:21Speaker 00

  So I think I danced more than ever when that no came. But not because I wanted to go anywhere or get a goal, or, it, it was my therapy to survive. To survive having to put a brave face on and go back to my normal life and not and not get the dream that that I wanted. It was really tough.

• 17:39Speaker 01

  You know, I feel so sorry for people who have done X Factor or

• 17:42Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  Pop Idol or The Voice, whatever. And you have that moment of like, this is the dream, here I am. And then boom, and it's back to reality. It's like, when you're in that moment,

• 17:52Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  The lights are on and everyone's there. And you're like, this is amazing, amazing, amazing. And then when it stops, it's like someone turns the lights off.

• 18:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  You're still in the room.

• 18:02Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  And no one's really watching.

• 18:03Speaker 00

  But no one's, and no one really cares. That's, I think that was the hardest bit, because no one cares, because they're like, move on. We've got things to do. People have things, we've got show to do, job to do, like, nobody cares.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  And you're like, but hang on a second, this is.

• 18:15Speaker 00

  But I care.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  I care. And why does no one care? Because I cared this much.

• 18:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, but for my, like I said, my saving grace was I just kept dancing.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  So if someone's listening now and they're dealing with rejection, right? Maybe it's in a relationship, or maybe it's in work, or maybe it's an opportunity they missed. What would you, what advice would you give that person?

• 18:30Speaker 00

  Well, I would say, number one, just take it one day at a time. I know it's like the cliche things to say and do, but you know, feelings do change, you know, there, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes, especially, especially after becoming a mom, sometimes it's even one hour at a time, you know, like, be gracious with the way that you feel, because it's okay to feel like that and not try and, everything's fine. That, that's the worst thing you can do. Say, I'm fine, I'm fine, everything's fine. Actually, talk about it, embrace it and put it, put all those feelings out, because then slowly, you start seeing them as a part outside of you. And you go, oh, okay, I can get past this slowly and at my own speed, but I can get past it because it then becomes something that is not you.

• 19:13Speaker 00

  It's something you've experienced it, but it's not who you are.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Ah, man, I love, and also it's okay to be in that position.

• 19:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  It's okay to feel sorry for yourself for a bit. It's okay to be upset. It's okay to be upset. And it's okay to talk about it.

• 19:25Speaker 00

  Yes, exactly.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  And, and you go through those emotions, right?

• 19:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  Because when you get through those layers, you process it. Fine, fine, fine, fine. You don't really process that rejection. And rejection is hard.

• 19:34Speaker 00

  Well, I just, I mean, Jamie, I just went through the biggest rejection of my career, if I'm honest. And I had to remind myself, oddly enough, of how I felt when that happened when I was twenty three. Because obviously with Strictly Come Dancing, I hosted It Takes Two, and there was like a journey there that I thought was gonna come for me and come my way. I was in the chemistry tests and I did really well in the chemistry test, at least that's what I was told. So I, I assumed I did a great job. And it was fascinating to kind of, obviously didn't get the job and, and they went, they went elsewhere. But I remember coming home and it was a really hard pill to swallow, because I read recently that in life, you work really hard and you put everything into something and it looks like it should be yours and you

• 20:19Speaker 00

  feel like you deserve it. And yes, maybe you feel you deserve it, but no one is owed anything in life. You know, that entitlement does not belong to me, to feel like I'm owed a job or a position or, or a spot in a show or whatever. But the honesty of going through that heartache that I went through when I was twenty three, I felt it again now at forty two. And it just goes to show you that life really does flow like waves. You have ups and downs and you have moments and it's never gonna be smooth sailing. And sometimes I felt like I was able to cope with this rejection better, because I had felt a level of rejection. And then that was when I was twenty three, but there was lots more after that.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  But I was better prepared to cope with it, because I understood, okay, I'm gonna grieve, I'm gonna be sad, and I'm gonna be absolutely gutted. But eventually I will come out the other side and I will look back and be like, everything happens for a reason.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. So this is, um, this is the host Strictly Come Dancing. So

• 21:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  So Tess and Claudia said that they were leaving. You know, it's probably the biggest job on TV, in a way.

• 21:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, a Saturday night at primetime entertainment show.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Saturday night primetime entertainment show, BBC. And look, if I'm honest, I thought you, you know, knowing you and seeing what you had done and hosting the thing, felt like you were a frontrunner.

• 21:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I think I felt like I was a frontrunner. You know, I went from being a professional dancer for eight years on the show. Then I became the host of It Takes Two for five years. And at the same time, hosted the Strictly Live Tour for five years. And in the Strictly Live Tour, I played both Tess and Claudia with all the judges and the couples, because you know, when we go on tours strictly, we take all the couples that did the live TV show and we go on the road with them with the judges. So you're in essence, watching the show. You're just not seeing them with Tess and Claudia, you're seeing it with me hosting it. So when you just put it on paper, you assume, okay, I've got a, a shot, because all the pieces were there.

• 22:15Speaker 00

  Unfortunately, they, they just decided to go elsewhere. And of, of course it hit hard. Of course I was devastated. You know, I remember, because Zoe Ball, we've been speaking a lot, and Fleur, we've been speaking a lot. And we all feel like we've gone through the seven stages of grief, we say, about not getting the job. But ultimately, I have to understand, I'm in an industry that is very, very fickle. It changes constantly. And I can't hold any personal feelings towards decisions that were made that are for the best of the show, you know, and for the future of the show. The only thing I will say that gave me power, or a sense of like, getting my power back, was that I was a professional dancer on Strictly seven years ago.

• 22:58Speaker 00

  And in seven years, I have gone from being a dancer on the show to hosting Morning Live, hosting It Takes Two, hosting the Strictly Live Tour, and putting myself in a room against names like Emma Willis, Ryland Clark, Zoe Ball, like, all of them that you've seen that have spoken out about being in the chemistry test. I was one of them. So if I can take anything away from it, it's not that I didn't get the job. What I am taking away from it is that actually, I've done a bloody good job in the last seven years with honing my craft to presenting and understanding the TV world and the business of how things, another job will come. Something else in the TV world will come. And actually, there's been a lot of things I have wanted to do that I never could do,

• 23:44Speaker 00

  because I just didn't have the time, because I was doing Strictly.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  By the way, you're so great. And, and like, that is, it's so good, because that's actually your mindset. But it's also like, in the way you've been trained. I would be fucked off.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  I would, those motherfuckers.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  I'm just gonna put it out there. We can sit there and be like, ah, it's great for the show. And I would say, you motherfuckers.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  I know I would kick butt in that.

• 24:14Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  I would be freaking great. And I was ready for it.

• 24:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  And I felt like I was promised some shit.

• 24:21Speaker 00

  The thing is, I was never promised anything.

• 24:23Speaker 01

  I get you what, but you know what I mean.

• 24:25Speaker 00

  I was never promised anything. And Ali Ash is still.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  You're so sweet and you're amazing. And I, and I, and I love it. And I think you're great. But listen, I'm saying what I would say, this is not, I'm not putting words in your mouth.

• 24:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  I would be fucked off. And that's the words that I would use in the email.

• 24:38Speaker 00

  I, I, I'll be honest with you, I was super devastated. I was really sad. It was just bizarre. I don't know, clearly not.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, obviously you didn't.

• 24:49Speaker 00

  Obviously I didn't.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  No, but you would have done, because you're so professional and.

• 24:54Speaker 00

  I was really nervous.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  Can I, can I ask, can I ask a personal question? You don't have to, because I understand, like, and I understand you. I wanna say, you are probably the most professional person I know.

• 25:02Speaker 00

  Oh, I'm saying a lot about the people you know.

• 25:04Speaker 01

  No, but listen, in a great, you're so, but enough, you're all, listen, you are the funnest. But you also have an element of like, you're, you're professional, right? So I know you, it's probably tricky to say these things. But when they, when they tell you don't get the job,

• 25:18Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  do they email? Do they speak to you? Do they phone you? Or do you just hear it?

• 25:21Speaker 00

  They called everybody's agents. They handled it very professionally. So they called everybody's agents and they said yes or no. Everybody on the same day got the yes or the no. And then they said, you know, we're gonna let her sit with it. And if she's really wants to speak, we're here, we can speak with her. And I have to say immediately, Monday morning, I had the weekend to sob and cry, and I sobbed for weeks, I'm not gonna even begin to lie. Like, I was devastated. I called them the next day on the Monday. They were just there for me. And I, ultimately, they said, you are brilliant, we loved you. I can't tell you why. I think, you know, sometimes I would hate to be in that position to pick the next person to host that show. I think it's a very, very tough choice. So I, I'm very empathetic and kind to, and also very aware that

• 26:06Speaker 00

  it's business, you know, as much as I love things and I love them and I love the show, it's still at the end of the day, business. They need to make choices that are tough choices.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  And a hundred percent.

• 26:14Speaker 00

  And it just didn't go my way.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  You know what? And it's, uh, hosting is Josh Willinkham, Emma Willis and Johannes. Yeah, amazing. Those three will.

• 26:22Speaker 00

  I messaged Johannes, uh, when it got announced. And

• 26:27Speaker 00

  and I remember saying to him, listen, I am so damn happy for you, because this guy has worked so hard his whole life.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  He's a beautiful.

• 26:36Speaker 00

  And he's such an amazing human being. And I think the idea that we have someone like Johannes hosting Saturday night primetime television is so powerful and so beautiful.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  Do you know what's incredible, what people don't realize about dancers like you and like Johannes and, you know, I remember, and I'm sure he went, but Johannes, his story, growing up in a township in

• 26:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  in South Africa and the hardship that he had, and then doing what he is doing now, it's, people see shiny dancers on stage. They don't realize.

• 27:07Speaker 00

  They don't realize the hard work.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  The hard work.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  Which is exactly what Johannes wrote back to me. He just said to me, I just wanna thank you, and, and, you know, I don't, can't remember exactly. But he said, I just wanna thank you for paving the way to show that dancers are more than dancers on Strictly. It was a tough moment, but I'm on the other side, which is great.

• 27:29Speaker 06

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• 29:33Speaker 01

  You became a mom at 39, right?

• 29:35Speaker 00

  39, yeah.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  39 years old, which is like later in life, right? And pardon me, you know, I'm 37, right? And I had Ziggy 37 years old. There is something about having kids younger because you're less, you're more naive.

• 29:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  You were not stuck in your routine as much. And when I had Ziggy, my baby, at like 37, I was a bit like, oh, my God, this is like a shock because I can't go to the gym. I don't, my routines changed. Did you have that?

• 29:57Speaker 00

  No, because I had no routine.

• 30:00Speaker 00

  I literally just talked about this with a friend of mine recently, about the difference between like my mother, for example, she had me when she was 18 years old. She's very, very young. And I saw the hardship and everything that she went through in so many ways. And my dad, they were both only 18. So I kind of had this thing in my head, like, that's not what I want. I want to live my life. I want to see the world. I want to be everywhere and do everything. And I want to like really follow my career passions and just do the things that I love. And children and family will come just later. I wasn't even thinking about them at that point. And I have to say, I feel personally for me like I made the right choice in that because now as a mother, I have zero resentment of my life before her, you know? I did everything that I wanted to do.

• 30:46Speaker 00

  I went to all the nightclubs. I traveled the world with Ali Ash. We went on a world tour together. We couldn't, we'd never be able to do that as parents. It's very, I mean, possible, but harder. And now if I have to stay in or if I'm missing a dinner, if I'm missing a weekend with the girls, or if, I don't really care. It's fine.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  That is so refreshing to hear. It's so amazing. And you should sing that from the rooftops because I think women feel a real sense of pressure, especially when they hit their 30s, maybe.

• 31:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's just the biological clock, you know?

• 31:15Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 31:15Speaker 00

  And every woman's body is different, you know? I was at a certain physical level at 39 that might be very different to another woman at 39. So I did a lot of tests. I checked myself to make sure that I could wait and do the things that I need to do in my life before I wanted to have children. But then in saying that, I started trying to get pregnant when I was 37. And I remember because I came off contraception and I had this stupid idea in my head that it was going to happen in 2.5 seconds.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 31:42Speaker 00

  Because you're so scared of falling pregnant your whole life. And they're like, oh, take this thing out. It'll be fine. The baby's going to come tomorrow.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, we freaking go.

• 31:50Speaker 00

  And it was two years and I still wasn't pregnant. And I started IVF journey. And it's so bizarre because once we started the IVF journey, Lyra ended up coming naturally. So it's like, you can't plan. You really can't plan anything. You can only be cautious and make smart choices to kind of prepare you for whatever that future might look like for you. But I do think that there is something to be said about experiencing life in your 20s, in your 30s, and going for gold and just living your life the best that you can so that when your child comes, you are ready to be the best possible person for that child because you're happy. For me, what got me through it is just that feeling of I want to be a mother

• 32:34Speaker 00

  and I want to have a child and I want to raise a little human. But if I can't, then I will do everything in my power to make sure that whatever I do on this earth is of value to other people in some shape or form, to give service back somehow. Because for me, having Lyra and bringing her into the world and raising her to become what I hope or I think is a good person is leaving behind something wonderful for the world, you know? If you can't do that through your own child and your own experience, I kept telling myself, I'll find another way to do something wonderful to help and create magic in the world that we live in. Ali Ash and I, to be honest, just in general in life, he is my best friend. So I think both of us just being really conscious

• 33:17Speaker 00

  of each other's emotions and being sensible to that and having really open and honest conversations. You know, there were many times when he said, baby, you're going to be fine. This is all going to work out one way or another. Don't put pressure on yourself. It'll all work out. And then vice versa, me to him. I would say, look, if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. We have each other and it's not the end of the world. We're doing this because we want more love in our life, not because we lack love in our life. And it is what it is, you know? That was the, for us, the kind of saving grace that we wanted to be parents. But if we could not become parents, it wasn't the end all of our life, you know? We still had each other.

• 33:54Speaker 01

  Are you close to your parents?

• 33:55Speaker 00

  Extremely close. Like almost embarrassingly close to my parents. They're kind of my best friends. After Ali Ash, I call them for anything.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  Mom and dad?

• 34:06Speaker 00

  Mom and dad for different reasons. And then both of them at the same time. We're just so, so close. My mom and my dad were very young. Like I said, they were 18 when I was born. So I've always kind of had this more like older brother and sister relationship with them than I did like parent relationship with them. They went through such a hard time to...

• 34:24Speaker 01

  But like what, what struggles did they have?

• 34:26Speaker 00

  So they're Cuban. They were born in Cuba.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:28Speaker 00

  My dad and his sister and his brother, same with my mom and their siblings. They had the most, I mean, I feel like you could write a movie on what happened to them to leave Cuba. So my dad left Cuba through a very similar system than my mom did. At the time, the government was giving these kind of visas to families if they wanted to leave Cuba. You could leave Cuba, but you had to turn over your land and your house and your belongings to the government and you can take all your clothes with you. But furniture, the house, the land, anything that you owned equity wise, the government kept and you were free to go if you wanted to, just with the clothes in your bag. So my mom and dad both did it separately. My dad went to Spain.

• 35:11Speaker 00

  And in Spain, the Catholic Church at the time had a really incredible system to help refugee families from Cuba come over and stay there. And my dad and his brother and my grandfather were selling cardboard boxes that they would just buy from behind. They would just steal them from behind the supermarket and sell them for like 25 pence or whatever it was to just kind of have some money to get stuff within the refugee camp that they were in, in Spain.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 35:36Speaker 00

  And then my mom, this is the wilder one, mom went to Costa Rica. And in Costa Rica, they stayed there in some family friend's house that they had all in one room. But my mom is my mom and three siblings and my grandparents. So it was, my math is six of them in the one room. And then my mom and her two brothers and her sister, the four of them, I can't believe I'm saying this. They went on a speedboat that was trafficking drugs into the state of Florida at the time. So basically, they started then human trafficking. They started taking these refugees and they just started taking all their money and sending them into the USA and just like dropping them off in the water. But at the time, if you landed in the USA and you were Cuban, you had freedom to stay. Now it's very different.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:22Speaker 00

  As soon as your feet touched the sand in the 1980s, you were allowed to stay.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  You could stay.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  But now it's obviously changed a lot. So my mom and her siblings, without their parents, went on this crazy speedboat to Miami. Ended up landing in Miami. They had one quarter and one paper with a number on it that my grandmother said, call this number as soon as you get there from any payphone. And they had to just find a payphone from the beach to call that number.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  With one quarter?

• 36:46Speaker 00

  With one quarter, yeah.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  That's all they had?

• 36:49Speaker 00

  All they had, I swear. One quarter.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  And who did they, they found the telephone, who did they ring?

• 36:54Speaker 00

  My grandmother had a family friend who was already in Miami, who had come before her. And they obviously kept in touch. And she said, if you ever wanna come, just let me know and I'll look after you guys when you come. And then my grandmother and her husband ended up coming over the same on another speedboat that came over.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  How does it make you feel?

• 37:11Speaker 00

  Oh, I mean, you know, talk about pressure to deliver in life. When your parents have gone through something like that, to give you the opportunity to chase your dreams and have a free life and just do what you want and follow your heart's desire, you know? Cause they weren't gonna be able to do that with Cuba at the time, so. My dad ended up coming over to New York. He had a little bit more of a peaceful transfer. He came from Spain to New York. Uh, my grandfather's cousin had a place in New York City. And then from New York, they both ended up in Miami. And throughout all, that's the most beautiful part of the story though, is that throughout all of that, my mom and my dad had already started dating. And they were writing each other love letters. And my mom has all the love letters from my dad still at home.

• 37:57Speaker 00

  And I'm like, gosh, I remember, cause when I started dating, my mom thought everybody was the guy I was gonna marry. I was like, slow down. It's a different journey for me than you. But yeah, they met when they were fourteen and they've been together ever since. But I think when your parents, whoo, when they go through something like that and you hear the stories. And then as I got older, I also met uh, family cousins. My dad's cousins came over on a raft, straight from Cuba, ninety miles, three days with no food and water. And I remember picking them up and their faces were just fully burnt and they were like skeletal from not having.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  You, you went and picked them up?

• 38:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, with my parents and my grandparents, cause we all wanted to be there to bring them to us. And you know, when you grow up seeing hardship and a level of stress that like, you just don't comprehend. You can't, I can't comprehend what it would have been like for my grandmother to send her four children on a speedboat and just wish for the best. Like, that is desperation for something better in life. That I just, I don't have the capacity to understand. So I think that has shaped me.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  It's the courage and strength to leave everything behind in search of something better for your family.

• 39:04Speaker 00

  For your family, yeah.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  So what, what, what does that make you feel?

• 39:09Speaker 00

  Well, I feel immensely grateful, cause you know, you are, I think a lot of who you are and who you become in life matters massively on where you're born. And I don't know what my life would have been like if I would have been born in Cuba, you know? I don't, I don't know. It would have been a totally different thing for me. But I was born in Miami. I spoke English before, cause my parents, they didn't speak English. So I went into school only speaking Spanish and I had to learn English at school because nobody at home spoke English when I was born. And you kinda just, I don't know, it's, it's strange because I think they taught me inadvertently, without knowing, resilience to just kind of like, you know, if it doesn't work out, it will work out. You know, it's just make it work out one way or another.

• 39:52Speaker 00

  And also gave me an immense sense of the importance of family unity. Like, how much your family or your loved ones, whatever, family can come in lots of different shapes and sizes. But those people that you love and that matter the most to you, to protect and love and be there for each other to the level that they were there for each other.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  Man, do you know what I find so amazing about that is the sort of resilience and discipline of your parents? Because I think you, you see like, that, that's a pretty turbulent upbringing, right? And like, lots of things could go wrong. And to stay on the right path and to teach the right morals and to have the strength and discipline, even though internally you're probably dealing with your own things, but to keep on, you don't give up. We keep going. This is how you need to be a good person, kind person, all that kinda stuff. That is amazing to give, to have that from fourteen years old.

• 40:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, so they met when they were fourteen, yeah, and they stayed together. And then when, when I came into the picture.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  And then having kids at eighteen.

• 40:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, but here's the, here's an interesting fact. My parents don't drink at all. They never have. My grandparents never drank at all. He smoked a Cuban cigar every single day of his life and he smoked cigarettes. But he didn't, he didn't drink alcohol. They just didn't like it. They, they just didn't. And my dad never did. He just never liked it, never did. And I think my, my dad and I had a really, I talk a lot with my parents. But I asked him, like, how did you cope then? Cause for me personally, I'd put my hands up. If I'm having a tough day, going for a glass of wine or going for, for a drink is like, sometimes the easiest way for me to go like, I just need a debrief and like, let go for a second. But for my dad, he would say, no, because I didn't drink, I was forced to cope with my problems,

• 41:28Speaker 00

  with my mind and with my thoughts and with conversation. And because he did that from such a young age, even though he was a young father, I think both of them, mom and dad, just felt an innate understanding of like, look, we just, we'll be fine. We'll figure this out, you know?

• 41:44Speaker 01

  So do you consider yourself American or Cuban or?

• 41:48Speaker 00

  See, I love this question. I'm international. And I think the world is moving more international anyway. I think with, with how much people are connecting with each other anywhere in the world at any point in time in any way, you don't need to kind of block yourself to just being one thing. I think ultimately, my biggest roots are Cuban. I was raised by a Cuban family. I listened to Cuban music. I spoke their language before I spoke American or English. And like, so I feel innately more Cuban than I do American. But then at the same time, I, I was born in the USA and, and I had the most amazing upbringing in the USA. So a huge part of me is also super American. But now, I've been living in the UK for almost fifteen years and I'm on the brink of getting my citizenship.

• 42:33Speaker 00

  So I'm like, I'm from all over, Jamie. I'm here to please all.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  But I feel like Cuban is a little bit funner than being British. Like, I feel like there's a little bit more party in it.

• 42:44Speaker 00

  But the Cuban in me, I don't think you can get rid of. And I think as a mother now to Lyra, I'm leaning more and more and more into that side of me because.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Cause you go back to your, you go back to your roots.

• 42:55Speaker 00

  Well, because obviously Lyra was born here. She's British. She has a British passport. Her father, Aliash, is from Slovenia. And then I'm American, but I come from a Cuban family. So this girl's gonna go, who am I? Like, what is going on? So I kinda want her to really embrace and be British. That's like step one. Because she was born here, she's gonna go to the Sunday roast, have the afternoon teas, do all of that, yeah? But then I want her to know a lot about her Cuban culture because it's a part of who she is and where, where I came from and where her mother came from. So interestingly enough, now more than ever, I'm really tuning into that part of my life that maybe, not that I ignored it, but now I'm really obvious to it.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  Have you gone back to Cuba?

• 43:36Speaker 00

  No, that is kind of like my biggest um, goal in life is to go. Yeah.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  Why does that make you emotional?

• 43:45Speaker 00

  Oh, sorry.

• 43:48Speaker 00

  I think because it's like if you were born, you're Jamie, and all you hear is about British culture, British food, all the pub life, all the music, the bands that came out of here. Oh my gosh, and like on the Sundays, we do the roast and then at Christmas time, we do this and da, da, da, da. And you know, and you hear and you speak English and you understand it and you know it. And your parents talk about it all the time and your aunts and uncles talk about it all the time. And then you grow up in that world and then you've, it's like you've never stepped foot in, in Great Britain. It's the weirdest feeling. It's like, there's that last piece of the puzzle to complete who I feel I am as a person.

• 44:28Speaker 00

  And that last little piece of the puzzle is to finally go and just see where it is that the language that I spoke first came from. Like, the music that I listened to, the stories that I heard, the beaches that my dad and my mom met and fell in love in. Like, it's just like a part of me that I think I really, really wanna just close the chapter on and be like, wow.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  And I'm saying, in a weird way, we all need to have a home, right? We needed like, and you've got your homes everywhere, right? But that little, that little door that you haven't opened and visited, that little home that you wanna go and see, you wanna go and see it, right?

• 45:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I, I would really love to go with Aliash and Lyra as a family.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  What is stopping you? What has stopped you?

• 45:09Speaker 00

  What is stopping me is the government in Cuba is a very, very complicated government. And uh, because I still have an American passport, the legality around me going is not just as easy as if I had a British passport and I can go and visit. So I'm just not able to go as easily as a British citizen is. So maybe when I get my British passport, I will hopefully be able to go and visit and just see it and explore it. But yeah, that is like, probably the biggest, biggest wish in my heart to complete someday in my life.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  That moment when that happens.

• 45:43Speaker 00

  Oh, I do. I'm gonna cry my eyes out because it's just, like I said, it's like feeling like you're from this place, connecting to it on so many levels, even like you say, yeah, but the Cuban in you and you're like, yeah, it is who I am. But then just never having been there, you feel a bit like an imposter, you know? Because you're like, I'm, I am from this place, but I'm not from this place. But then I also live in the UK and then I'm also, it's a very strange feeling. Which is why when people ask me, where are you from? I like saying I'm international because it takes the pressure off a little bit of like.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  I can understand now.

• 46:19Speaker 00

  Explaining like, oh, I'm one thing, cause I, I'm not one thing. But that one thing that I'm also not, I still haven't experienced. I've experienced American, I've experienced British, but I've not experienced Cuban.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  And so you, it's a, in a way, it's sort of like, not, not in a negative, but it's like a defense mechanism. Because you, that, it's, it's emotional.

• 46:38Speaker 00

  It's emotional.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  It's emotional, so you wanna be like, well, I'm international, it's okay. And like, listen, it will happen.

• 46:43Speaker 00

  It will happen.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  One hundred percent, and it's gonna be the most, I mean, I can't even, it's gonna be the most amazing thing in the world. Stepping off that plane and putting your feet on the ground and be like, oh my god.

• 46:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, no.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Oh, it's gonna be amazing.

• 46:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think so.

• 47:03Speaker 06

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• 48:06Speaker 01

  You know, Strictly is an amazing show. We did 2020 together.

• 48:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, you were brilliant. You really were. I remember, I know this is gonna sound awful, but was it the semifinal or something that you got through?

• 48:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:18Speaker 00

  And we screamed.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  Because I was doing the salsa and everyone was watching it and I got every move right. It was in, I was in the dance off and I got it all right. And as I can read it, everyone just got up on the side.

• 48:33Speaker 00

  We were so happy for you.

• 48:35Speaker 01

  Everyone was like, let's go, let's go. Because I was such the underdog.

• 48:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I think that's the beauty of Strictly and I'm excited to see what's gonna happen with all the, everything that's new. Obviously, It Takes Two is also new and everything's new. But I think ultimately what people like more than anything about the show is the people like you that come on and they, you just, you fell in love with it. I could tell you did.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  Doing Strictly is the scariest thing I've ever, like, that was, going on the stage and being like, half-knowing what I have to dance and what I have to do. Like, this is what happens in the week and you know. Monday, you get given what you're meant to do.

• 49:11Speaker 00

  I love that you're telling me as if I didn't do it.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  I'm telling you, okay?

• 49:16Speaker 00

  But we're telling the listeners.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  We're telling the listeners. Monday, you get given this, the cha-cha, whatever it is. As a non-professional, it's like learning a new language.

• 49:24Speaker 00

  It is, yeah.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Literally like learning, it's like learning Spanish. That's what it is. And you can't even understand what they're telling you. Tuesday, you're like, what? Wednesday, you're like, I think I maybe get this. Thursday, you've understood how to do a Cuban break.

• 49:38Speaker 00

  You're learning to walk again.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  You're learning to walk again. And then Friday, you're practicing and Saturday's the live show.

• 49:42Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  When you go out on the live show, you don't know if you're gonna vomit or shit yourself.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  Or both.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Or both. And there was one time when I dressed up as Hercules and I thought, thank God I'm wearing fake tan because if I'm gonna shit myself right now.

• 49:54Speaker 00

  At least it'll match the outfit.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  No one's gonna know. No one's gonna know.

• 49:57Speaker 00

  It is, I take my hat off to any celebrity that does the show because I did the math with Ali Ash. We sat down and we did the math. All together, you get three and a half days to learn an entire routine and then perform it in front of millions of millions of people. And, and you have on the side of that, the judges and the judging of not just the judges that are on the tables, they're the judging of people at home, obviously giving opinions as well. So for me, you are very brave and every celebrity that does Strictly is immensely brave. And I wanna say this because I think it's super, super important. And Strictly is just an example of that. But we have to remember that the words that we put, you know that old saying that goes sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me? That could not be further from the truth.

• 50:42Speaker 00

  And now that Strictly is about to start again, I think people need to remember that what you say, what you write online, what your opinions are, what you think or don't think. Remember, there's another person on the side of that that's gonna read it and feel what you're saying. If you can't say it to their face, don't put it down. Because you have no idea, you just said it, how hard Strictly is, how vulnerable you feel, how nervous you are, how you just wanna feel accepted and liked and appreciated. And then you get these online trolls and press and people just attacking, attacking, attacking, attacking. And it's like, I think we all need to take a second and remember we are human beings

• 51:25Speaker 00

  and we're here to entertain, for fun, for lightness.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  What's your experience with trolls and online abuse?

• 51:31Speaker 00

  Well, actually, when I, when I went back to work, because I couldn't wait to go back to work. I was really excited. I remember I was six weeks postpartum and Morning Live called me and asked me if I could come in to host and I was so excited and I was like, yes. And then I went and had an amazing time. I felt like a person again, you know? I wasn't at home and with the baby all day. And not that it wasn't lovely. I mean, it was a beautiful bubble that I was in with Lyra, but I just was so excited to go back to work.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  And it's, by the way, it's okay. It's okay to feel.

• 52:05Speaker 00

  Excited about that.

• 52:07Speaker 01

  And it's okay to feel cooped up as a mom with just your baby and especially if you're ambitious and driven. And yes, being a mom is hard and wonderful thing, but it's okay. You don't have to. It's okay.

• 52:18Speaker 00

  And I remember putting up on my Instagram this like post, like how happy I was to be back at work and back on Morning Live. And to just think, oh, I can't believe you're leaving your child. I can't believe you're, what is, this is the type of mother that is setting the wrong example for mothers everywhere, mothers that don't love the, and I was like, are you kidding me? Like, where is the, the girl power, female support? If the first person to dodge me when I'm doing something is a woman out of all people? That's, I think, what hits hardest. Like, I could take a man being stupid because you don't know me.

• 52:54Speaker 00

  But as a woman, to do that to each other, I was just so baffled. I was angry, actually. I wasn't sad, I was more angry.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  Jeanette, I'm gonna tell you this. I didn't get any comments about going back to work.

• 53:05Speaker 00

  Because you're a man.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  And I went back after three weeks.

• 53:07Speaker 00

  Exactly. But even the system here in the UK, men get, what is it, two or three weeks paternity leave? And the mother gets a year? Because in society, we just assume and think the mother has to be home and the father has to be the one that goes off to work.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's.

• 53:21Speaker 00

  And Ali Ash and I have such an opposite view to that. Like, you know, last year I did Roxy Hart in Chicago and I was on tour for six months. And a lot of people, again, were like, how can you leave your child for six months? And I was like, I saw her once a week on The Worst Case. A lot of times, she was with me on the road. And then Ali Ash had to step back from work so that I can do Chicago and he can be with Lyra. And again, what's wrong with that? That is a couple working together to raise a child.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  But also, Jeanette, also, you haven't won the lottery.

• 53:52Speaker 00

  No.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  You, you, you have to.

• 53:53Speaker 00

  I have to work.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  You have to work, you have to earn money.

• 53:56Speaker 00

  But also, it's not just earn money, it's who I am. And it's okay to be happy doing both. There's days that I'm like, I don't wanna see anyone, I don't wanna talk to anyone, I just wanna be with Lyra. And, and that balance is my balance to deal with.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Can I ask you about the controversy with Strictly?

• 54:12Speaker 00

  Which one?

• 54:17Speaker 01

  Because there's been, there's been a little bit, right? There's been like, there's been a little bit with maybe, it's not even maybe, some professionals being too potentially aggressive with their training tactics. Firstly, how that sits with you and, I don't know, I just wanna talk about it a little bit if you can.

• 54:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course. I think, I'll start by saying this. Becoming a professional on Strictly Come Dancing, you have, most of the professionals have just come from a competitive, remember this, a competitive background. All they've ever known is selfishness to win because that is how they've been trained since they were three and five years old. So they don't know a world of team and, you know, capacity to put on a, it's a different, different element and a different machine all in itself, right? So let's start with that because just on that basis, it is very, very hard to train people. This is not a real competition. This is not an actual, you're not gonna win a trophy

• 55:19Speaker 00

  and become world champion if you get the Strictly Come Dancing glitter ball. That's not what this is. But some people are very good at doing that. I, Ali Ash, my husband, he's brilliant and understanding. It's an entertainment TV show for the celebrity. This is the only time they will ever do Strictly. They are the most excited, their family's super excited. I'm gonna make this experience for them the best experience ever because I will come back and do it again, they will not. So I need them to enjoy this process. That's why I say being a professional on Strictly is one of the toughest jobs in the entire show. Because you have to be a creator, you have to choreograph, you have to be a good teacher. Mind you, people become professionals in either or. But on Strictly, you have to be both. You have to teach and you have to choreograph and then you have to dance it.

• 56:04Speaker 00

  So you're also a dancer. And then on top of that, you have to have a personality because you can't be forgettable because you wanna win the votes and you wanna do things that matter. And then on top of that, you have to be a therapist because you need to guide your celebrity, make sure they're okay, make sure they're having a good time, make sure they're having a good experience. So you're wearing so many hats as a professional that I don't think people realize how many hats pros on Strictly actually do have to wear.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  What is it like competing against Ali Ash? And what is it like?

• 56:37Speaker 01

  And what is it like dancing with him?

• 56:38Speaker 00

  No, competing with Ali Ash, we never competed, I'll be honest. Because, come on, I remember my first year on Strictly Come Dancing. Oh, obviously, no. My first year on Strictly, I had Julian McDonald, he's a British fashion designer, and he had Abby Clancy, a model. So we're like different parts of the same, really. Because I had the fashion designer and he had the model. And I remember me and Julian, my first year on Strictly, we were in the dance off every single week for four weeks straight.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  I had eight.

• 57:09Speaker 00

  I know, I know. Like, this is my first year on the show, I'm trying to be, you know, impressed. Ali Ash went on to win on his first year of Strictly Come Dancing. And I remember when he won, when he came home, we obviously, I was celebrating, I was so happy. I screamed and everything. And then I remember when we kind of debriefed everything, I was like, well, at least one of us brought it home, right? And I'm like, damn it, it wasn't me!

• 57:37Speaker 00

  But it was a... But it's nice, because we always choreographed together. So even if it was for Julian or for Abby, every single dance that he did with Abby, him and I choreographed together. So in a way, I was part of the, I was part of the win, you know? We did feel a little bit like the home one, you know? Because he choreographed my numbers with me for Julian and I choreographed his numbers with him for Abby, all the way up until the final, so.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  You guys are married?

• 57:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Did you have a first dance?

• 58:02Speaker 00

  We did not.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Get...

• 58:03Speaker 00

  No.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  That's a mischance.

• 58:09Speaker 01

  You didn't have a...

• 58:10Speaker 00

  Let me explain it to you. You're getting married, you're getting married! I want you to do a podcast talking about how much you love her on the night of the wedding.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  I did a podcast about my wedding, leading up to it.

• 58:19Speaker 00

  You did about it, but not on the day!

• 58:22Speaker 01

  I would have done.

• 58:26Speaker 00

  No, it just felt a little bit like we'd be working, we'd be putting on a show, and I kind of wanted to just be lost in his eyes. Look, my dad sings, right? And my dad, I didn't know, but he recorded our wedding song and sang it for us. So I'm like, there was no way in the world I was gonna remember choreography and be in the moment of a performance piece when my dad is singing my wedding song and I'm dancing with my brand-new gorgeous husband. I just really wanted to be in the moment, and so did Ali Ash. Also, I couldn't move in my dress. It was like, I literally had to get in the car lying down because it was so tight. Julian McDonald designed it, by the way. He made the dress for me and he gave it to me as a wedding present, which was phenomenal.

• 59:11Speaker 00

  So I had a Julian McDonald wedding dress, I mean, that is like...

• 59:14Speaker 01

  The real perks of Strictly.

• 59:15Speaker 00

  That's the perks of Strictly, yeah.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  What was, what was your wedding song?

• 59:18Speaker 00

  We danced to Michael Wilblaze's You and I, originally sung by Stevie Wonder. We are the most unromantic couple, by the way. I think the most romantic thing we do is we dance together. Because when we dance together, it really feels like I'm not on this realm. It's a very strange feeling. Because dancing includes a form of meditative state because you're lost in the music, lost in the moment, lost in the space and time, which is similar to meditation. It's when you lose sense of time and you're just hyper-focused on something. And when you do that when you dance, but then you do that when you dance with someone you love and you're both doing it. It's like another level of existence that I can't really put into words. Very, very special, actually.

• 1:00:03Speaker 00

  And I remember thinking, when we do tours together, we do shows together, we're like any other couple, we argue all the time. But if we have to go on stage and do a beautiful romantic dance, it's our therapy.

• 1:00:17Speaker 00

  Because then I have to look into his eyes and make pretend I'm in love with him again when we've just shouted at each other backstage about a wardrobe malfunction or something. And then I'm looking at him from across the stage, angry, and then we come on, I'm like, oh, but I love you, really.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  What happens if he puts a foot wrong?

• 1:00:31Speaker 00

  I have to follow.

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  Get out of here.

• 1:00:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, because he's a...

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  You have to shift that quickly?

• 1:00:36Speaker 00

  I have to shift quickly. He's also a big guy, Jamie, he's six foot and I'm five foot. If he goes wrong, I gotta go.

• 1:00:43Speaker 00

  I gotta try and fix it, because it's not gonna go anywhere, so I just gotta go. But I think we, we've gotten better because we never danced together, because he's so much taller than me. So he used to compete with somebody else. We only started dancing together when we got on Strictly. And I remember that was a journey, to figure out how we can make it work. And with his height and my height being so opposite, but we made it work.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  What do you love most about him?

• 1:01:06Speaker 00

  Oh. He is the kindest, most thoughtful person I know. He's a guy that will like pass a shop and see something and be like, oh, I remember that so-and-so really liked that shirt. So I'm just, he just buys things just because. He's that guy that doesn't get me flowers on Valentine's Day, but if he feels like it on the day, he goes, I was thinking of you, so I got you some flowers. And that is like, for me, magic. Because that matters more than a Valentine's Day, a birthday present, a thing. And he also, I mean, this is a tough question because I love a lot about him, but he also fully, fully, fully accepts me with no kind of sugar coating, you know?

• 1:01:50Speaker 00

  The madness, the excitement, the resilience, the annoyingness, the over-excitedness, the...

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Overthinking.

• 1:01:57Speaker 00

  Overthinker, the person that, you know, a lot of times always felt like I wasn't enough for a lot of things. And he's just my rock. He's the one that goes, no, you are, and you're brilliant, and you're amazing, and I love you, and you need to remember that. When I went up for the chemistry test for Strictly, he knew how bad I wanted it. He knew how bad I wanted that job. And he came home with this huge bouquet of flowers and a card. And in the card, it literally said, remember, you've already done enough. Brucey would be proud. And I was just like, I broke down, right? Because he just thinks of things like that, like, you know, I remember, you know, when Tess and Claudia announced that they were leaving, he thought like Bruce would be so proud of what they've done for Strictly.

• 1:02:42Speaker 00

  I didn't even clock things like that. And then when that kind of moment came, just to know exactly what to say, to just bring me around and make me feel like, even if it doesn't happen, you've done yourself proud, like. He's just, he's just a goldmine of a human being, really.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Do you feel proud of yourself?

• 1:03:00Speaker 00

  I feel proud of myself now. Because I think a few weeks ago, I would have probably had a different answer because I was in a different place. But now, I'm really proud of overcoming and moving forward and getting excited for what's next and the next part of my life. So I'm proud of myself right now because I think I'm doing the things that Jeanette would do outside of the world of Strictly. And Jeanette is doing the things for her daughter outside of the world of what people think is the best or the worst for raising a child. I'm just doing me in every way possible. And I'm so excited for this reinvention phase of my life because I'm going into it with such a different mindset to where I was in my past.

• 1:03:45Speaker 00

  So clear with, I know what I want to do. For example, I'm really, really, really buzzing because I'm doing this play. And it's a straightforward play. I'm not, I'm not singing, I'm not dancing, it's called affluenza. And I'm playing an attorney and I'm playing like, it's quite a serious thing. So I'm buzzing because I think in life...

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  That's a real challenge, isn't it?

• 1:04:05Speaker 00

  It's a massive challenge. It's, for me, I haven't lost Jeanette. My thing is to entertain, to tell stories, to connect with people through the realm of theatre or television or film, whatever that is. I will always do that, and I will always continue to do that. But you have to trust that whatever avenue comes, you just take it when it comes and you go with it. But as long as you keep doing you, what you're passionate about, what makes you curious, what makes you excited, it will eventually lead, that thing will lead to that thing, and then that thing leads to that thing, and you just gotta go, go with it.

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  And having the courage to do it, right?

• 1:04:42Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:04:43Speaker 01

  Where can we go and see the play?

• 1:04:44Speaker 00

  You can go and see the play at Riverside Hub. It's eight shows a week. So you've got loads of options.

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  Eight shows a week!

• 1:04:52Speaker 00

  Yes, because it's Theatreville, so it's eight shows a week.

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  It's a matinee, isn't it?

• 1:04:56Speaker 00

  Yes, I've got matinees on Thursday, matinees on Saturdays. I mean, I don't take myself easy because then from that, I'm going straight into my first-ever pantomime.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:05:04Speaker 00

  I'm playing Tinker Bell at Marlow Theatre in Canterbury.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  Wow!

• 1:05:07Speaker 00

  But again, I've always wanted to do panto, but, you know, Strictly's always kind of...

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  Stopped it.

• 1:05:12Speaker 00

  Stopped it, so now I can do panto. And Tinker Bell, I mean, come on!

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 1:05:17Speaker 00

  Disney fanatic number one, and my first role is Tinker Bell, so I'm like buzzing. But yeah, the play, actually, I'm really, really excited about. Because in life, you've got to challenge yourself. You've got to do things that make you uncomfortable because that's the only way that you grow. When I joined Strictly, I had never competed in Bore Me Latin. Never. And I had to teach a quickstep. Yes. So I had to teach a quickstep, and I'd never competed in that world to teach a quickstep. But I was like, you know what? I'd rather be thrown in the deep end and figure it out than be afraid or wait for the perfect moment to go for the perfect opportunity and the perfect time. Sometimes, you've just gotta go.

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  Can I say you're magical?

• 1:06:02Speaker 00

  Stop it. You're magical.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  I really appreciate you coming on and being open and making me laugh and just being amazing. And truth be but my time with Strictly was so great because you were part of that journey as well. And like I had the fondest memories of doing that in 2020.

• 1:06:18Speaker 00

  We bonded because you said you're a Scorpio. And I was like, me too. What is it about Scorpios that when you say you're a Scorpio, people go, oh. I get it, I get it.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  And we're thick Scorpios.

• 1:06:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  Still to this day, can I say, I still with Ali Ash, when we finished show, we had a couple of drinks and I banged a pitcher on his head.

• 1:06:40Speaker 00

  He was not happy.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  He was not happy about that.

• 1:06:41Speaker 00

  He was not happy.

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  I was over excited.

• 1:06:43Speaker 00

  And the studio was happy about it.

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, the studio was not happy about that. Didn't think we were meant to be doing that at the time. Anyway, that's another, that's in the past, whatever. Listen, thank you so much.

• 1:06:51Speaker 00

  No, thank you for having me.

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  You're amazing in every single way. We'd like to end the conversation with eight quick fire questions.

• 1:06:56Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  Are you ready for this?

• 1:06:58Speaker 00

  I don't know how quick I'll be, but go for it.

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  It's okay, you take as long as you want. What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up?

• 1:07:03Speaker 00

  Be kind.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  I love that. Being kind is cool. Best compliment anyone's ever given you?

• 1:07:07Speaker 00

  I heard once that they said, you're such a healer. You're such a healer, you know? If I'm around you, I just feel like I'm better immediately after leaving your side. I was like, wow, deep, but I'll take it.

• 1:07:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna ditto that, as in I can feel that on you 100%. What scares you most about yourself?

• 1:07:26Speaker 00

  My mind. The overthinking, overanalyzing, overstressing. I'm working on it all the time.

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  Apart from today, when was the last time you cried?

• 1:07:34Speaker 00

  Seriously, I cried when I had to put Lyra to bed, knowing that I wasn't going to see her for two weeks because of work. And those are tough, tough nights when you've got to, you know, put your big girl pants on and just get over it.

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, but she will know her mama, especially when as she grows up, she'll know that her mama is just like a rock star.

• 1:07:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  And she was doing everything for her.

• 1:07:58Speaker 00

  Even now, I'm, I still have time before the play kicks off in October, where I can still put her to bed in the evenings. But just the thought of like, I'm not going to put her to bed at night for quite some time while I'm doing shows. Just thinking of that makes me tear up because, you know, I'm still a mother and I'm still a human.

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  I have listened. It's crazy what it does to you, that love.

• 1:08:18Speaker 00

  It's crazy.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  The only way I can describe it now is I want to climb inside my baby and get to his heart and say, I love you.

• 1:08:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:24Speaker 01

  And I can't, and I can't do it.

• 1:08:26Speaker 00

  But I just keep looking at her and I'm like, at this point, I'm like, can you stop growing?

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, just stay that, stay like that.

• 1:08:32Speaker 00

  Just don't move.

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  Stay like that. What's something you can't let go of?

• 1:08:38Speaker 00

  Lyra, obviously.

• 1:08:41Speaker 00

  Ali Ash, Lyra, my family, I think the people in my life. I just, if I didn't have them, I don't know if I'd be here or doing the things that I'm doing without the support of my family, my husband. I just, I would never imagine a world without them.

• 1:08:56Speaker 01

  What's your guilty pleasure?

• 1:08:58Speaker 00

  Ooh, chocolate.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  What type?

• 1:09:02Speaker 00

  Milk, just milk chocolate.

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  Straight up in the fridge, out the fridge?

• 1:09:04Speaker 00

  Dairy milk. Dairy milk, whole nut. O M G.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  Do you put it in the fridge?

• 1:09:10Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  You have it out.

• 1:09:11Speaker 00

  I like it creamy.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  Okay, there we go.

• 1:09:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  Let's freaking go. What's your biggest turn off?

• 1:09:17Speaker 00

  Laziness.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  Get up and go, I like it.

• 1:09:19Speaker 00

  Get up and go, come on.

• 1:09:21Speaker 01

  What's your biggest turn on?

• 1:09:23Speaker 00

  Power.

• 1:09:25Speaker 00

  They're not in the way that you think.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:09:27Speaker 00

  Like, for example, and talent, power and talent, which is why I fell in love with Ali Ash.

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, talents, yeah.

• 1:09:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's because I remember watching him on stage dancing the first time and going, okay. Do you know that we were friends for a whole year before we actually started dating? He was literally trying to get me to date him for a whole year. And I kept saying no, and no, and no, and no, and no. And then finally, a year later, I went for it and we went on the date.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  But you had a date or you kissed, what happened?

• 1:09:51Speaker 00

  We, he said to me, oh, a friend of ours who was going through a bad breakup, he's like, he's really going through a tough time. I think you and I should take him for dinner. And that's where I went, are you using his breakup to try and take me to dinner?

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  World-class tactic, love it.

• 1:10:05Speaker 00

  And I thought, you know what, I'm gonna bite because he was so creative.

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  All right, man, let's go.

• 1:10:10Speaker 00

  Then I sat down at the dinner, poor guy was going through a breakup and me and Ali Ash are falling in love with each other like on the same table. But he started talking about relationships and love and family. And I was just like gobsmacked that we had such similar approaches to the real serious things in life. And then when I say power, I don't mean powers in financial power. I mean, powers in like knowing his worth, walking into the room and being magnetizing and everybody. When Ali Ash walks in the room, you can't help but want to say hello. You know, there's something about him, you know what I mean?

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  100%. What do you like most about yourself?

• 1:10:45Speaker 00

  That I'm resilient. You know, I'm like that thing that comes back fighting. No matter what happens, there'll be a way around it. I'll make it work. And I do it with positive approach, positivity. And it's not happiness all the time. I would be an absolute liar if I said that I was always happy. But I try and approach life, even the tough times, with as much positivity as I can.

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  I love that. Bonus, snog Mary Void. Craig Revel Forward, Bruno Tonoli or Anton de Becc?

• 1:11:19Speaker 00

  I'm Mary Anton.

• 1:11:20Speaker 01

  Mary Anton.

• 1:11:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's quite the gentleman.

• 1:11:22Speaker 01

  So you have to shag or snog Craig or Bruno?

• 1:11:25Speaker 00

  It's not great options.

• 1:11:27Speaker 01

  You got a big one.

• 1:11:28Speaker 00

  I'm Mary Anton. I will, I will, I think I'll snog Craig because we're really close. He's a good friend of mine. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Sorry. Where's a Bruno? I can't believe it.

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  You are wonderful, you are magical, you are beautiful. Thank you so much for going on great company. You are the best company ever.

• 1:11:45Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:12:00Speaker 04

  When you put your body in the hands of a surgeon, you assume your doctor will do you no harm.

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  Crooked doctors have launched their most ambitious fraud yet, worth over $1 billion.

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  From Sony Music Entertainment and Western Sound, this is Dr. Billions. Search for Dr. Billions wherever you get your podcasts and start listening today.

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