GRACE BEVERLEY: What I’ve Learnt From Building TALA & Overcoming Burnout

Grace Beverley has spent the past decade building a career most people can only dream of. At just 18, she started her first business from her university bedroom. Since then, she’s gone on to build three hugely successful companies, TALA, SHREDDY and The Productivity Method. I was so excited to sit down with Grace for an episode of Great Company. She’s someone I’ve wanted on the show for a long time and the conversation more than lived up to my expectations. In this episode, Grace shares: The burnout that forced her to rethink everything How she learnt to trust herself and build businesses her own wayWhat she’s doing to break the taboo around miscarriages in the workplace Why building a village of friends matters just as much as finding love The story behind her husband’s INSANE proposal Grace is proof that success is not just about what you build - it’s about the people who stand beside you while you’re building it. Grace Beverley is Great Company. Listen to Grace’s podcast, Working Hard with Grace Beverley HERE! https://open.spotify.com/show/1Uh7KMBji1BptMsUS4tNNM If you enjoyed the show, you can also follow us: Instagram-@greatcompanypodcast https://www.instagram.com/greatcompanypodcast/# TikTok -@greatcompanypodcast https://open.acast.com/networks/611e511b4ec6dc00134bced2/shows/65d737dfdc02e00016c413b2/episodes/www.tiktok.com/@greatcompanypodcast Jamie -@jamielaing https://www.instagram.com/jamielaing/?hl=en-gb And if you've got thoughts, questions and comments, you can email us at: [email protected] THE CREDITS Producer: Helen Burke & Leonore Raab Assistant Producer: Issy Weeks-Hankins Video: Josh Bennett Senior Social Media Manager: Laura Coughlan Audio: Rafi Amsili Geovannetti Executive Producer: Ewan Newbigging-Lister Great Company is an original podcast from JamPot. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Tala nearly went bankrupt. There was about three months where every single week I was wondering if we'd make payroll. I spent a good few years like on the path to like full burnout, like full cannot get out of bed. I wasn't even ovulating, like my whole body had gone into like shutdown.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  If if someone's listening right now, a female founder, someone who is starting a business, what advice would you give that person?

• 0:22Speaker 00

  Okay, big question.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  That is great advice.

• 0:29Speaker 00

  I'm Grace Beverly and I'm in great company.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  Entrepreneur.

• 0:32Speaker 00

  Grace Beverly.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Grace Beverly. Your husband, when he proposed to you, it was, I think, some of the world's greatest. Like, he organised a fake trip for you.

• 0:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, we'd arrived at the hotel, they'd had briefing calls, so like they arrived, they go, are you here for the Armani event? He'd flown out an Armani makeup artist to do my makeup. Everyone is in on this.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  Oh my god, this is insane. You said your miscarriage was like invisible grief.

• 0:57Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  No one knows that you were pregnant and it's just you have to continue.

• 1:00Speaker 00

  It's entirely unfair that you wouldn't get your baby. And then also you're expected to, well, you didn't have that, so.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  So here we go.

• 1:06Speaker 00

  Get you back to work. If you lose your pregnancy at Tala, you can take a form at Antileve.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  Wow, leading from the front like that is so important.

• 1:13Speaker 00

  Women are expected to do so many different things to such a high standard. I think that if you can have solid female friendships alongside whatever else you're doing.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  I completely agree.

• 1:23Speaker 00

  You will always be in an okay place. We have so much onus put on finding a relationship, on settling down, on getting married, on all of these different things. I mean, female friendships aren't said to be a priority in the world.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone and I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed and the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

• 2:09Speaker 00

  That I absolutely think they are.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Hey guys, welcome back to Great Company. Really excited because we have Grace Beverley on the show. We go all over the place with it. It's incredible. Get ready for it. Now, before we start, if I can ask one quick thing, that is if you can press that subscribe button. It notifies when you have another episode and you join the amazing community that already subscribed. Thank you. Okay, enjoy this incredible episode of Great Company with Grace Beverley. What scares you about motherhood?

• 2:34Speaker 00

  Oh, there's so much.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:36Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot. Like, I have always known that I've wanted to be a mother. I used to, I actually used to say so much as a child, like, I really want to be a really good mum. That my sister told me the more you say that, the worse mum you become, because I was pissing her off so much. So.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Perfect.

• 2:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. So clearly the, like, the aspiration was there from the beginning. I just, I think, like, I've, I've built my career in like a very specific way, right? Like, over the past, I've been doing this for 10 plus years. And every few years, I've added on what feels like a really good add-on for where I am at in my career. And the teams I've been able to build and all of that to be able to facilitate me to do more and more of what I feel my skill set is.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  And that's conscious choice.

• 3:26Speaker 00

  And that's conscious, like, pretty much everything I've done is quite specifically reverse engineered for the type of life I want to live and the type of businesses I want to build and the type of work I want to have. Like, even when I essentially kind of fell into, I guess, being a content creator, when I came out of uni, immediately I was like, this is not what I want to do. So deleted all my YouTube videos overnight, like, went, like, stopped posting for two years, focused on building the businesses, because I was like, that's what I actually want to do. So what scares me about motherhood is that what you can imagine from all of that is like a complete, well, it's complete control. Like, it's complete control over, and don't get me wrong, every part of the businesses.

• 4:10Speaker 00

  A certain amount out of your control and I deal with that every day as well. But I'm so trained to deal with that and I've done that for so long that I feel like that is really what I'm good at. And I.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  This is really unknown.

• 4:23Speaker 00

  It's so unknown and it's so many variables and so much, so many uncontrollable aspects. And I just, and so far from what I feel like my day to day is like.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Great. Do you know what? By the way, you, you're gonna relate to so many people who feel the same way. And I think that especially when you're a bit of a control freak. Like I am as well. I need to be in control of different things. When you are having a baby, it feels like something you can't control. And a baby is baby and it's there and it has needs and desires and wants and it's a human and everything. And so you have to let go of that control.

• 5:03Speaker 00

  A hundred percent. I think two parts of that. A, I literally have OCD, like diagnosed OCD. So there's an element of that that I'm kind of like, I've been trying to.

• 5:14Speaker 00

  I don't know. I've been trying to work around that, but also almost like use the parts of that that I feel like are my superpower. Not to, I mean, everyone will have a different experience who's been diagnosed with OCD. Like, I'm not talking for anyone else, but for me.

• 5:31Speaker 00

  I have tried to mitigate the bad sides of things whilst also being able to use the sides of things where I'm like, well, this actually means that I'm amazing at this, this, this and this. I think that that is so far from, like, you have to let go of control so much when it comes to um. Motherhood and parenting and all of that, that is probably, like, I feel like I'm being thrown so in the deep end from, from where I am now.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  How does your OCD manifest before the point two? How does that, what happens?

• 5:59Speaker 00

  Lots of different ways. As you can probably tell, like, I'm very intentional around how I've done everything. Then that's like my happy place.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 6:07Speaker 00

  Um, and that's where I feel it's weird. Like, I feel most free in an environment where I can control a certain amount of like.

• 6:16Speaker 00

  Like my recurring dreams are about being unprepared for exams, for example, like every single night, I have a fucking dream about the fact that I'm sitting my finals the next day and I've not done the work for it. And like, that, that's my version of like a true nightmare. Because like, my freedom sits within a certain level of control and a certain amount of that is unhealthy.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  That's such a juxtaposition though.

• 6:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Your freedom sits in the place where you control it, right?

• 6:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, but to me, that's where I feel, I guess, like safest and happiest and all of that. I think that the, well, another big way it manifests is that, like, there's the less nice sides of things. Like, I get really strong intrusive thoughts. Like, I, I struggle a lot with, like, the, I think the reason I try and be prepared for every single outcome, which is impossible when you have businesses and impossible when you're juggling so many different things, but it's because I constantly think that the worst is gonna happen in every single scenario.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Do you?

• 7:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's exhausting. Really busy up here.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Wow, whoa, I didn't, but you're, you're a risk taker.

• 7:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  And you have pushed boundaries like way before so many people's times at such a young age and done so many things that no one would do. And the reason why a lot of people wouldn't do that is because they would be afraid of the outcome.

• 7:30Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  But, so that feels like a, that, I didn't realise that it was so busy in your mind.

• 7:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I think that that, I think that's fair to say. Mine was almost the opposite in that when I started the businesses and generally in the first few years of, I guess, entrepreneurship, although I didn't necessarily see it that way at the time, I was not very happy in a number of different ways. So it felt like actually the risk was staying where I was, rather than doing the big leap things of kind of like getting out of there. So I think when a lot of people think of like, oh, is it really cringe if I do all of this, or if I start this, or if I start posting about this, then they naturally. It it naturally feels like the safest version is not to do that. I always try and encourage people to flip that on its head.

• 8:17Speaker 00

  Where it's kind of like, okay, well, what's worse, living a life that's designed for someone else? Because you're so worried about what everyone else is gonna think, or like, that to me is a bigger risk than actually just.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Makes sense.

• 8:31Speaker 00

  Trying to go for these, I don't know, bigger things.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  But when you get those intrusive thoughts, right, and you think the worst is going to happen, right, when it, when something does go wrong. Do you then say to yourself, I told you, I knew this was gonna happen, or do you look at it more logically than that?

• 8:47Speaker 00

  I think I'm, I think I'm relatively logical. I think that I, one of the things that it means is that I'm very prepared. For most outcomes, because I try to do it. Well, yeah, hundred percent. Um, and I'm, I try, and I'm not very good at being, but I try and be aware of like what's actually helpful and what's unhelpful. Um, in terms of like that internal monologue, but it does mean that a lot of the time I'm, I guess. You know, if the worst that's gonna happen is this, what three things can we do that mean that we're.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Prepared.

• 9:19Speaker 00

  In that scenario, not in a kind of, like, truly exaggerated sense, but actually. Some places that's a helpful exercise, some places it's not a helpful exercise, and I guess that the battle for me has been differentiating which is which. And not needing to approach everything in my personal life, for example, with the same rigor that I would try and approach it to, you know.

• 9:42Speaker 00

  Run a business and manage millions of investors' money and all of those different things.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Do you remember the first time when you felt out of control?

• 9:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that from relatively early on. I definitely realised that I preferred situations that I was. Able to control the outcome more, like I really liked going into an exam, for example, feeling. Very prepared for it and feeling like I truly understood things and whatever it might be. And I think that one thing that's probably, maybe a misconception about me, maybe, maybe not, but is that I.

• 10:19Speaker 00

  Because I had quite a.

• 10:22Speaker 00

  I guess textbook, high achieving, kind of beginning, I don't know. But I think that the, actually, I was told throughout school that I wasn't like, as in that I, and I don't say this is a soft story at all. I genuinely think this is what's like motivated me to, to get to where I am now and to get to that point. It's like I was told over and over, like in primary school, my parents were told like, she's, she's not an academic candidate for anything. Um, she's unlikely to, you know, be able to go to any of the kind of more competitive uh, schools. So I would just like, don't stick her through the eleven plus, like just don't, you know, like this is not, that's not the direction for her. And that definitely like continued in a narrative,

• 11:06Speaker 00

  like every single thing that I achieved that was impressive, I never got the first time. Like it was never a, so you see Oxford, I didn't get in the first time. Like I, I tried twice. Um, same with many different, like literally every single thing I have that's impressive that I've done.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 11:23Speaker 00

  Was not achieved the first time. I was never particularly good at things. And so was constantly told that over and over. It was kind of like, yeah, yeah, like fine. And so like for my GCSEs, for example, I was predicted like. Yeah, I was predicted like, I don't know, like in some of the subjects I really loved and thought, you know, I would do well at. I remember coming home with my predicted grades, which were like very different from what my older sisters had got. And it was kind of a, a handful of Cs and some Bs here and there and like all of that. And I just remember being like, oh, like I, I.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  This is so refreshing to hear. No, I'm so, like, this is so refreshing to hear.

• 12:06Speaker 00

  Well, for some people, like as in, I don't know, I don't know. I, I always resisted to say these things. So I think everything's so relative because obviously for some, like for some people that would be like, uh, you know, as in like that wouldn't be something that they'd be upset about or whatever. But I just remember like that was constantly the narrative that was around me. I was just like, that's not her lane. Um, and so like, I remember, for example, when I became, when I came home with those predicted grades, like I.

• 12:33Speaker 00

  Doubled down and like wrote myself this like insane revision schedule and realised that I didn't learn very well from the tuition method I was receiving, like I just didn't learn by rote, like I just wasn't good at that. So like got all the textbooks, set myself different, like literally had it on a calendar on my wall of like, this day we're going through this chapter, this day we're going through this chapter, this day we're going through this chapter. Printed off all the past exams, like all of this, went through that. That was my first example after GCSEs. Like I remember coming out of that. And I remember getting the results and I got like an award for getting the highest in my school. And I just remember being like, what the fuck? Like, I was like explicitly, like they called my parents into meeting.

• 13:17Speaker 00

  And we're just like, this is not, this, you know, like this is not where we'd expect it to maybe be, but this is what we're expecting for her. And I think from that point, I started to like really put two and two together of like, okay.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  That makes sense.

• 13:31Speaker 00

  When you're stressed about things and when things feel that far out of your control. You are only a certain level of preparation away from making that reality different. And I think that.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  That is great advice.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Yes, I think I may have taken it too far at some point, but I agree. I think that that became like almost like a drug for me. My whole narrative has been if you take things into your own hands and if you do X, Y, Z to be able to put yourself there. There have still been examples where I've fallen short, but it was like that element of control was actually, as I said, what brought me that freedom of being able to achieve what I wanted to achieve.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it's so true. Cause what you found at a young age is you found that awareness that you can actually do it yourself.

• 14:16Speaker 00

  And I think I also learnt in a way that like I, I was always very. I think I always wanted to do the right thing. Like I wanted to, I don't mean that from a moral sense, although like as much as we'd hope that, like as in genuinely, I wanted the acceptance and validation. And yes, that was the right thing to do or whatever. So even prior to that point, it'd been like, well, surely the way everyone else is doing things is the right way to do things because everyone else knows better. And so that's what kind of enabled that change is that that, those early times were some of the first times where I was like, actually, sometimes different things work for different people and this clearly isn't working for me. And therefore, what if I.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  Do all of this myself and I kind of, I don't know, I've built up a real trust in myself to always get myself through these situations.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  Does that make you stubborn?

• 15:08Speaker 00

  Hmm, probably. I just, I don't know. My husband's more stubborn than me, so it can't be that bad. Um, but yeah, I mean, I mean.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Do you still feel you have something to prove to the teachers? Was it to your parents? Was it to your family? Where was that drive coming from to be, to break down those barriers and say, well, if someone's telling me no, I know I can do it and I want to do it. Cause a lot of people would just go, I can't get into Oxford. I've been told I'm not going to Oxford. I'm not going to that school, this school. Okay, fine. I'll just accept that. You didn't want to accept that, but that needs to come from somewhere.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't think if I'd, if someone had talked to me at the time, for example, around the Oxford thing, if someone had talked to me and said, you're not going to get in, I probably still would have bought that whilst trying to do the opposite, if that makes sense. It's not that I had this fierce conviction in myself that was just like, well, no, you're completely wrong. I was kind of like, well, yeah, I might as well give it a go and like, these are the things that I'm going to do. And like, if I don't get there, at least I know I gave it a good try. I think that like in terms of like, what's the motivation? What's the drive? I think if you spoke to, and I'll be interested here if you agree, I personally think if you spoke to any single entrepreneur.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 16:19Speaker 00

  Ever, they've all got a chip on their shoulder. Genuine, like, sorry. I, I think it's the case because it is an insane thing to do.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Mad.

• 16:29Speaker 00

  It, it, and I think.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  Go deeper. I want to get, I expect, what is your chip? What do you mean by this?

• 16:35Speaker 00

  I think, I think they can be different things for different people. Like for some things, it's proving something to someone. For something like, I think I was really quite, quite an insecure teenager.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Same.

• 16:44Speaker 00

  And I, yeah, and I think that I.

• 16:48Speaker 00

  I started my first business, what, eighteen? And I started suddenly being able to prove to myself that actually like, maybe not that I was like the most fun person or the prettiest or the like this, that and the other. But I could make money. I could do that really well. And so I think that that like, you know, it's not that that became everything. But I I started to realise that I was quite good at like various of these different things, particularly without needing other people's buy in. Like, it wasn't necessarily that I needed you to find it cool that I was selling eBooks online. I found it cool that I was seeing the fruits of that.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Because I just want to understand this because I think this chip on the short idea is really interesting, right? Because being an being an entrepreneur, you have to, there has to be something driving you. And there's that whole saying, which is, are you being dragged or you driving? And typically, we're being dragged by something like the idea to be seen or to make someone proud.

• 17:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think with so much entrepreneurship as well, it like goes beyond the threshold of like what would make sense in terms of like, okay, well, if you were just doing it to succeed in this area, which I see some people do.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:56Speaker 00

  And then they're great and they're happy. I also see lots of people who have, you know, the like serial entrepreneurship, the exit after exit, the complete obsession with like, like constantly hitting new heights. And I think that has to, and I say this from my perspective, so perhaps I am projecting. Um, but I I think that to a certain extent has to come from an underlying

• 18:22Speaker 00

  search for validation that's not being found elsewhere.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  How important are friendships to you?

• 18:28Speaker 00

  Very, very important. I think one thing that I like try and make really clear, even across socials now, for example, is yes, I would love you to take me seriously as a very important businesswoman. But the most important things to me in my life are my relationships outside of work and particularly female friendships.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Explain why.

• 18:50Speaker 00

  I believe that what you can get out of female friendships is and what you can, the fulfillment you can both like give to and get out of female friendships is.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  Unlike so many other things, and I think that particularly for young women, we have so much onus put on finding a relationship, on settling down, on getting married, on all of these different things. I mean, women are expected to do so many different things to such a high standard. And to never look like it's hard and all of this, it all comes from the like having it all aspect. But I think that actually for so long, that's meant that female friendships aren't said to be a priority in the way that I absolutely think they are. Like, I think that, you know, I'd like to think that my marriage will last forever. I'd like to think that every relationship I've been in will last forever and all of these different, you know, that my businesses will last forever and all of these different things.

• 19:49Speaker 00

  I think that if you can have solid female friendships alongside whatever else you're doing.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  I completely agree.

• 19:54Speaker 00

  You will always be in an okay place.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  I, I, I think that friendship is the most important thing. And actually, there's that great analogy, we had a guy called Bob Waldinger on, who, who's part of the happiness test, which is basically saying that connections with family and friends are the most important things to make you happy in life. And actually, when we go through life, we forget that. But you haven't, you've realised how important friendship is.

• 20:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I definitely think there have been, like, look, there have absolutely been times like where I haven't prioritised it as anywhere near as much as I should, like, I'm clearly a workaholic. But I think that where you can, like, it can look at like different things to different people. And I have no doubt certain things will change as I go into motherhood and have less time in that respect. Certain things change. Like, two of my closest friends moved to Australia. That was like a, I was like, oh, you know, how am I going to deal with this? I talk to you about everything all the time, like various different things, there are always going to be changes. But I think having a, it's just like knowing your life pillars, like knowing what your pillars are, your core pillars are, and how to uphold them.

• 21:01Speaker 00

  Because I think that that really has been over the past few years, why I've not just, I think prior to the past few years, I'd been at a point where I'd been like, yes, happy with my life, happy with my career, still striving for more, but like happy with where I am. I think that over the past few years, I've really focused on, okay, what, what genuinely would make you happy outside of thinking that your career is ticking lots of boxes? Like genuinely in the day to day, in your soul, like in what you are getting from all of that. And I think that.

• 21:33Speaker 00

  Absolutely, that comes from friendships and just knowing what you're, knowing, as you say, how you water that, knowing you don't need to have ten really close friends.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  How many close friends do you have?

• 21:46Speaker 00

  I don't know. I wouldn't want to say a number and people cut themselves out.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  No, because the reason why I said, the reason why I said is that I heard that firstly, that you have a fixed date that you'll see your friends every week. Which is amazing. And I remember looking on social media, seeing one of the greatest things I've ever seen is when your friend had just given birth. You and your friends get on the train, dressed as cleaners, turn up her house and help her with her cleaning the house. The greatest video ever.

• 22:10Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  It's fantastic. And amongst everything else, amongst working as hard as you're working, you're still creating time for others, for your, for your community, for your village.

• 22:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I think, and as are they for me. I think that like, the main thing is, is as with anything that you believe is a priority, it has to be a priority in your schedule. Like, I really love the saying, if someone follows you around for a week, would they believe you're serious about your goals? And I think we often focus on that in terms of career and in terms of lifestyle. I don't think we necessarily focus on that in terms of like, okay, well, if one of your goals is to build connection and feel fulfilled and have great friendships, where are they in your week? Like, and I'm not saying, I know that people have, you know, particularly people with dependents, particularly people who are working alongside that, particularly people who have moved across the world, all of this. It doesn't need to be sitting down and having dinner. It can be the phone call, like you phone them while you're walking to the gym

• 23:08Speaker 00

  or you, or in your lunch break, or like whatever it might be. It is facilitating connection in a way that matches your schedule and matches the way you live. And I think that that's one thing I got wrong for a while and I just like couldn't work it out. And I was just like, I guess I'm just having to prioritize career. And actually. There are various different things that I've done a lot of content on like how to make a village, how to be a part of a village, like that that cleaning thing, as I was saying, like everyone wants to have a village, no one necessarily wants to do the getting on the train and doing your a full deep house clean for your when you haven't even cleaned your own house um for your friend, but like that is you've got to be the village in order to have a village and all of that. And I think that

• 23:51Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 23:51Speaker 00

  Again, it's just tailored to me and what my life looks like. So for example, with the weekly friends dinners, that's like if if it was on a Friday night and it was always at a nice restaurant, there's no way it's happening. It is, however, on a Monday night, which I know sounds insane. And at the beginning, I was very anti. It's on a Monday night at a friend's house and the rule is we all look like shit, like as in you actually can't compromise on that rule. So people come like come with wet hair in pyjamas. Or, you know, like as in it's and sometimes someone will have cooked, sometimes it will be a takeout situation. It's like, there's no way I can cook this week. I can't even make it to the shops, like whatever it might be.

• 24:33Speaker 00

  Um, and again, it's just like a standing thing. It's just on repeat because if we all have to go to the like additional mental load of booking something in the diary. We're and actually, at the moment, I'm I'm re renovating my place before we have the baby.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 24:50Speaker 00

  And so

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 24:52Speaker 00

  Wise. Um, and so yeah. We should be moving in in three weeks.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  Stress level's pretty good. Oh, yeah.

• 24:59Speaker 00

  Feeling strong.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:00Speaker 00

  But like, so so all of that's fallen out the window at the moment because I'm not, I'm I'm living in a temporary place. I'm not kind of like, as in like, everything's kind of all over the place. But it's about and so it's about knowing that not all of your pillars are going to be like completely upright the whole time.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  But you can still show up and be that any version of yourself and it doesn't matter.

• 25:17Speaker 00

  Exactly. And you can still, you can still pick that back up. You can still, you just need to, when you say something's a priority, it needs to be a priority in the actual realisation of what that looks like in your schedule.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  Can I have you, do your friends show up for you as well?

• 25:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. So before this pregnancy, I had a miscarriage um in like October of last year. And obviously that was really difficult. And at the same time, we had our Westfield Tala store opening the like literally the next week. And so I had to, like, I mean, I had to have an operation. I had to get the operation moved forward. But in order to be able to do the recovery in time to be able to make it to the store opening, because I was just like.

• 26:03Speaker 00

  I, on top of everything, I really don't want to miss this thing that we've worked so hard for and literally like. Been, I'd done the whole prep for the store also in first trimester, because I had a whole first trimester. So I'd be kind of. Violently nauseous all over the place, trying to like, build the store, get it into place. The week before we actually open, I end up having a miscarriage. So. I'm obviously like emotionally completely thrown, grieving massively, going through an operation. The hormonal like cliff of that is massive. Like, I don't think. That was ever even talked about to me from doctors or whatever it might be. Like, it is a huge crash. Um, and every single day that week and my, um.

• 26:48Speaker 00

  My husband, he's self-employed. So, I mean, he's there for me through absolutely everything. And of course, he was there for me throughout all of that. There was no way he could not be at work. Um, he had contracted work. Um, it's not like a kind of, you know, talk to your boss and say, you know, this is going on or whatever. And so every day I would have been alone at home. And every single day, one of my friends got permission to work from home, to work from mine. And like, they. Cleaned my house, they cooked my food, they did, they brought me like packs of like Sudoku's and crosswords. And like foot masks and we watched full seasons of things and they were.

• 27:30Speaker 00

  Fully still needing to do their jobs and sitting there and still doing their jobs. They had rotors set up with each other. In order to make sure that I wouldn't be alone at home. And in order to make sure that I would be recovered in time to be able to do the thing that I had said fully. Like, everyone was like, you don't have to. And I was like, a hundred percent, I'm gonna be at the store opening. Like, I'm not missing this. Like, this is. This is, you know, I've worked so hard for this. Um, and so. Yeah, you are a village to other people, and it doesn't always go both ways.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  That is a credit to your friends, but also a credit to you. Because when when people show up for you, that means you showed up for them.

• 28:05Speaker 00

  And what I've talked about before as well is like, it's not always been like that at all. Like, as in, that's been a very conscious effort on a number of different people's things. And don't get me wrong, you're gonna have different tiers of friendships. There are gonna be some people who would do that for you and some people who never would. And you still have a great time with and you just don't ask it of them. And you wouldn't do that for them either. Like, it's just a kind of, you know, it's not who they are.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:27Speaker 00

  But finding high effort friends when you are also high effort and being able to kind of maintain that through doing the thing first, rather than expecting the thing first, I think is so important. And it's been a real concentration of mine over the past few years to like.

• 28:47Speaker 00

  I I don't wanna say be a village in order to get a village, because that sounds like it's like entirely selfish and just like buying it. But like, as in genuinely, like be the friend that I always wanted to have. Because I think for a very long time I was like, God, why does everyone else have these massive friend groups? That they just came from school with and they're, you know, so close and they get on so well. And they do all these things together and like, these friendships didn't start till my mid twenties.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think that's really important for people to realise that if you haven't found your village, that doesn't mean your villagers are not gonna come, they're gonna be there. You know, by the way, thank you for sharing that, Grace, because I saw your post when you spoke about your miscarriage. And it's very brave to talk about it, especially so openly. Why did you decide that you wanted to talk about it?

• 29:30Speaker 00

  I think it's probably one of those selfish things where it it shook me so much that I

• 29:42Speaker 00

  maybe like couldn't believe that it was such a taboo subject elsewhere. When it is such a mass disruption in your life. And so many, I mean, I think, I don't know the stats off the top of my head. I think it's like one in four pregnancies end in miscarriage. It's a huge stat. And I mean, before November of last year, I think it was, there wasn't even statutory miscarriage leave. Like, unless you lost a baby after twenty four weeks, which is considered like essentially you've gone into labour past that point, like it's not even considered so much a miscarriage as a stillbirth past that point.

• 30:22Speaker 00

  At that point, you get two weeks, as in statutory, and prior to that, you don't technically get any. It's kind of up to your employer to truly understand and all of that. Add into that the complication around even telling your employer you were thinking about having a baby in the first place and all of these different things. It's

• 30:43Speaker 00

  there's, it means that so many women are going through this amount of pain and obviously the dads as well. But kind of going through this amount of pain and on top of that, because it's so taboo, like when something's taboo, it carries shame. So what, like, why? Like, why is there all this shame around the fact that you had a pregnancy and it didn't work out? It should be better understood in order to be able to be better supported.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  And you described it so beautifully. You said, um, you said your miscarriage was like invisible grief.

• 31:17Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Because you're still showing up, you're still functioning, you're still doing all the things that you know, but no one knows that you were pregnant and it's just you have to continue.

• 31:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I, I didn't talk about it until over a month later as well. Like I did, you know, for a while, people didn't know. Like it was, it wasn't a, it wasn't an open thing that I went back in, kind of told everyone about. I tried to get out of my grief before I actually felt like I could even speak about it. Um, but it also just like, I don't know, I think, you know, even since that point, we've made changes, for example, at Tala to actually introduce a miscarriage policy, like to introduce the fact that you can have prolonged leave, e- obviously including prior to 24 weeks, but after 24 weeks, if you have a, um, if you lose your pregnancy at Tala, you can take a full maternity leave.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 32:10Speaker 00

  And same with full paternity leave.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 32:13Speaker 00

  Because.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 32:15Speaker 00

  It's entirely unfair that you wouldn't get your baby. And then also you're expected to, well, you didn't have that, so.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  So here we go.

• 32:21Speaker 00

  Get you back to work.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  Leading from the front like that is so important. That's why it's so important to look to female founders, see what they're doing. So then you can incorporate it and borrow that and use it within your own businesses.

• 32:32Speaker 00

  Well, thank you. I think that's really important to say because obviously we also know that female founders statistically receive less than two percent of venture capital funding.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  Mad.

• 32:43Speaker 00

  It's just, but also like, as in, so I think that people often think of that as a specifically entrepreneur specific problem. It feels like, you know, when you talk about, okay, well, there are less women in this field or there are less women in this. When we look at the amount entrepreneurship affects the whole rest of the world, like the tech you are using, the products you are using, the science that's being done, the studies that are being done, all of this comes from, the large majority comes from privately owned companies. So if that's the case, privately or, or obviously IPO'd as well. But that have been founded in some way. That means it's all built in the vision of a male world because founders build things to solve their own problems. We also know that women hire more women. They put more women into positions of power.

• 33:28Speaker 00

  Like we, God forbid, we promote women just before their maternity leave if that is the right thing for the company. Like same with, you know, hiring, like as in people are terrified of putting women in positions of power within companies when they are at childbearing age, which is most of their working life. And they then, you know, there aren't policies around like a number of these different things in order to actually facilitate women being able to work in the way we expect them to. We expect women to be mothers as if they don't have a job and work as if they're not mothers and all of these different things. And it kind of, all of it creates this massively uneven world where I don't think we can even start to talk about gender equality

• 34:09Speaker 00

  or gender equity, when actually it is so far skewed from the reality, because if ninety eight percent of the funding is going into companies where that's not being reflected, then think about, even if you don't care about entrepreneurship, you don't care about the products, you don't care about the data. You don't care about the tech you're using every day, all of these things, even if you don't even think about that. Look at the, you know, the fact that like how few women are in those positions of power, how much they're actually getting paid, whether they're getting promoted, like all of these different things. Like, I am so proud of working within companies where I can look at the leadership team,

• 34:54Speaker 00

  the large majority are women with children. And that is, means that we are able to not only cater for our customer better and truly understand the life that they're living, but also we're able to build something where, yeah, we have to understand what flexibility we need then in certain environments and what, how we actually build a company that facilitates those things, rather than just assuming that every single woman who goes on maternity leave is never going to come back to work, not through their own choice, but because your workplace doesn't have things to support it. Like, it just, it doesn't, it doesn't make any sense.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Let's fucking go, Grace. Let's fucking go. I can hear everyone in turn me clapping. Like, yeah, let's, you're part of the two percent though, because your businesses have been funded by venture capital. Right? Does that make you proud?

• 35:40Speaker 00

  It makes me proud, but I think I'm so kind of disappointed by the statistic consistently. And by the way, I've been tooting this horn for however many years too. I first raised funding, what, like five years ago? Have the stats changed? No. Also, before you think, it doesn't affect me other ways, this is literally coming from your national insurance money because it's coming from the British Business Bank. So there should be disclosure around what's being invested in. Like this 98% discrepancy wouldn't happen in any other industry.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  What was your experience like as a female founder, going into those meetings, asking for money, trying to raise capital for a business? Because you've mentioned that they almost didn't believe that you were the CEO, you were the founder. They thought you were, oh, you're just going to be the face of the company.

• 36:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's always been a mixed bag. I think, you know, I've, we've been very fortunate to be in the position each time we've raised money to be able to be quite selective about who we've ended up going with, because we don't want to compromise the key values of the company or who we are or like whatever it might be. And we generally go for portfolios that have already invested in lots of other female founded teams as well. So because also particularly if you're doing it to get your stats up, which I do think people like the stats should be up. So we've got to do that somehow. But and then we get into the room and you don't believe I can genuinely run this company or whatever it might be.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  That's happened.

• 37:03Speaker 00

  Then that's also going to be difficult. No, because we've chosen well with our investors. But like that would all I've seen that happening all over the place. Particularly, you know, I was shit scared to tell our investors that I was pregnant. And even that like that, that's not a reflection on them. That's just because I know the industry.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  That's society.

• 37:20Speaker 00

  I know the industry. I know society. I know the expectation. I wrote in my email telling them about it. Essentially like, obviously, I still want to work here. Whereas the amount of times I've heard from investors, oh, by the way, my wife's having a baby next week. And you go, oh, okay. Well, thank you for letting me know. I'm glad that's disrupted your life so much. Like as in and and obviously like a big equal part or like a big part of improving a lot of these things is things like shed. Um, Matt and Pat leave and like all of these different things. So of course it should be, you know, that I'm not saying that that's necessarily like their fault either. But yeah, I think that, you know, I've had a, I've had so many different responses because I've raised three different rounds. Different types of investors for tech and for consumer.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:05Speaker 00

  So I've kind of seen the the whole, no, not the whole space. I've seen a big chunk of the space. There's a lot of um.

• 38:15Speaker 00

  I I wonder what it would be like were I not, like when I've raised Vitala, I've always wondered if I wasn't raising for a product that. They would assume they didn't understand because it's so, because it's for women.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:27Speaker 00

  Would I even be allowed in this room? Like genuinely, because the assumption is that women make things for women and men make things for everyone.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  If someone's listening right now, a female founder, someone who is starting a business, what advice would you give that person? What would you give them if they're going to look for funding? What should they do? Where should they go? How should they start?

• 38:45Speaker 00

  Okay, big question. Kind of totally depends. Sorry, not very helpful, but there are many different types of funding. And venture capital funding is not right for everyone. I think I would get the first thing I would always recommend is getting really, really clear on why you need investment. What for? What it will ideally do for the company? If you can't write those three things up, you're not ready to raise.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 39:11Speaker 00

  And I think once you've written those three things down, I think that you can then become quite clear on, okay, what does this investment need to look like? Would it ideally be one high net worth individual? Who can give us a little bit of advice sometimes, but they're really just writing a cheque and we're then growing the company and we'll see where we are in a few years? Or do you want to be on essentially like a jetpack growth situation? Which can be very exciting, also comes with just as much

• 39:44Speaker 00

  chaos as you'd imagine from being in jetpack growth and also a huge amount of paperwork, like all of these different things and pressure, all of these different things. So I think it's like really about working that out. And then I would say it's about really refining your pitch deck and I, or actually your ask overall and like who you are. I, you would not believe the amount of pitch decks I receive because I do personal investing as well. That I cannot tell from the first five slides of your deck, what you are, like all, who you are, what you're doing and what this money is even doing. Like the, I should not be having to dig through this. I should not be having to essentially try and summarize elsewhere. It should be very, very clear.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  Should be there, simple, straight away.

• 40:27Speaker 00

  And so I think that that is another thing and often the best way to do that is in the form of a pitch check.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  It's great advice.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  I want to go back to that, that moment, like when you're talking about, you, you're at university, you're posting, you know, you're posting on social media and it, most people wouldn't be doing that because it's embarrassing. And it was, you're being judged, but you went against that. I know that full well because I did Made in Chelsea.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  Don't know if you.

• 40:52Speaker 00

  Very respectful.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. But I, when I, when I got asked to be Made in Chelsea, it was like, everyone was saying, this is lame, don't do it, why are you doing that? It was just, it was just not cool in any way. But I saw it as an avenue to achieve something else, sort of cheat code my way in.

• 41:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Right? And I didn't care what other people thought. Weirdly, I, I didn't really care. And with you, it feels like the same. You, you care a lot what people think, but you also don't care what people think because you went and started posting stuff on social media.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  I think I did care. I think I really did care. I think I, you know, still wanted to belong and to make friends and for people to not think I was a massive loser. But I think simultaneously, I didn't care enough for it to stop me doing something that was

• 41:45Speaker 00

  quite clearly getting me things that I wasn't getting from elsewhere. So,

• 41:52Speaker 00

  for example, you know, I, I started this account when I was 18. I sold my first products within the first six months.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  But break that down for me. The, the account was called?

• 42:03Speaker 00

  Oh, the account was, well, I didn't post my face and it didn't have my name. Um, so that was just maybe a visualization of how embarrassed I was. Um, I think it was called Kayla G Bug. Because I was doing the Kayla Edson's workout plans.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 42:20Speaker 00

  Um, naturally. And so I kind of posted that, as I said, didn't post my face, didn't post my name, was just kind of posting of my journey of trying to be, trying to stick to the gym as someone who really was very bad at doing so. Um, so I'd just always like fall off to, um, yeah, I, I guess I would just try and stick to something for a few weeks and then I wouldn't be able to do all of that. So I started it as a kind of accountability page. Then, within my first six months, I was like posting, I, I started working at IBM, which was where I worked for a year after school, just in their, um, Kind of school leavers slash um placement year.

• 43:00Speaker 00

  Programme. And so I'd I'd started working there. I was essentially like working very long days there. Trying to prove that the corporate life was for me, um which obviously went really well. Um but I was also then posting on Instagram in a way that like started to grow. So I thi- I think I like. Started to get a few thousand followers and that was really, really exciting. And I.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Exciting because it was feeding your that niggle, that chip as well as everything. It was feeding everything, wasn't it?

• 43:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Just it just, you know, numbers.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. This is great.

• 43:33Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  I don't even know them.

• 43:35Speaker 00

  Why. I don't know why it's great, but I know that it's it's great.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  It was making you feel good.

• 43:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was making me feel good, definitely. Um and so I I was like posting all of these recipes of like, I like, I have a massive sweet tooth. So like healthier versions of brownies or banana breads or like whatever it might be. And I was posting these all the time, but because I was working. Um the kind of classic corporate hours, I was, every weekend, I was having to spend like. Hours and hours a day, basically making all these recipes and photographing them because in the because in the winter, which is obviously most of the year in the UK. Um I, there was no daylight, so I, and it was very important at that time to have a very bright, gorgeous Instagram. I even bought myself like a little food lightbox.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 44:19Speaker 00

  To be able to, you know, take good photos.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  What year is this?

• 44:22Speaker 00

  Twenty fifteen.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  So this is way ahead of its time. You're ahead of your time already.

• 44:26Speaker 00

  My little food.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  I was posting pictures of my foot, like I was really not.

• 44:30Speaker 00

  I was in a niche for sure.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  You were in that beginning stage.

• 44:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, very, very early on. But so because I was spending so much time every weekend making these recipes and churning them out. I kind of thought, well, what if I could sell them? Because this is taking me a huge amount of time. And I was it was taking up all my weekends and I was working at IBM in the week. And I was just like, this is so much work. Um and so I. Basically put the, made two different eBooks called Eat My Instagram, almost definitely not allowed trademark wise. Um but there was a sweet one and there was a savoury one. And essentially, they were five pounds each. Or you could pay eight pounds for two. So I did that. And then I remember over the next year, I made a few hundred quid off that. Because I set up a Shopify, I.

• 45:17Speaker 00

  Got their digital download thing. So essentially, anyone who purchased it just got emailed to them directly. And I was like, oh, my God, this is the greatest thing ever. I don't even need to manually email everyone who's purchased. And so set that up and then started like that year where I started really seeing differences was like when I put on like a twenty percent off flash sale. Or when I'd say this is only available for the next twenty four hours.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  So you were learning, you were just learning the whole time.

• 45:41Speaker 00

  But just learning by actually doing it and seeing what other people were doing.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  Best way to learn.

• 45:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. And so I did that for the next year. And so I think by the point of even going to university, which was in October that following year. Having made a few hundred extra quid, I was like, that's a solid amount of money. Like I was earning eighteen K a year because I was a, I was an intern at IBM and it was a paid internship in London and it was great. I felt like the richest person in the world.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, a hundred percent amazing.

• 46:08Speaker 00

  And I, to earn like a month's extra salary probably from the whole year on top of that. I just, I felt like I was printing money. Like I felt like it was amazing. So I think that by the time I got to the question of like, is this too embarrassing to continue? I was kind of like, well, essentially I am printing money when I do this because I am not.

• 46:33Speaker 00

  Like there's no marginal cost, there's no cost for each extra product you're producing.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:37Speaker 00

  So I could sell to you and every single other person in this room and it costs me the same amount, but I get obviously multiples on the profit. And so I was just kind of like, at that point, I was like, well, I'm not really gonna give up my, my money. So I guess all of you are just gonna have to think I'm a loser. Like, that's just like how it's gonna work. Um, and so I think that by that point, I'd kind of. The trade off just didn't add up for to, for it to be too embarrassing to not continue. I wouldn't give myself the credit of being like, oh, I just don't care what other people think. I absolutely did. And I continued to care for what other, what other people think for, for a very long time and still do.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  But you were earning too much money to stop, to stop what you were doing because you were, because you didn't care enough what other people thought to stop doing that.

• 47:20Speaker 00

  I, I think, I think realistically, yeah, that was my, that was my thought process being totally transparent. I think it was kind of like, well, yeah, you can think I'm weird doing this, but at the same time, I got five hundred extra pounds in the past six months and.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Is that what you would say to people?

• 47:35Speaker 00

  No, absolutely not.

• 47:36Speaker 01

  You wouldn't say that?

• 47:37Speaker 00

  God, you're really making me out to be a lot stronger than I am. No, that's what will go on inside my internal.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:43Speaker 00

  That's going on twenty four hours a day.

• 47:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:45Speaker 00

  Exactly. I'm having the invisible argument in my head.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  That's amazing. What you're achieving and what you're doing and what you're building is phenomenal. Like, like, like truly is in that space and I, I, I'm incredibly inspired by you and I'm not just saying that. And you, you, you keep turning up in a relentless way and I love that, right? I'm relentless and sometimes when you have relentless people, other people are looking going, that's, that, they're doing it again. Like, sit down, like, relax. But that does lead to burnout.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  And that does lead to those moments which are tricky and, you know, how do you balance that? And when burnout hits, how do you get past and what does it feel like?

• 48:26Speaker 00

  I think I spent a good few years like on the path to like full burnout, like full, cannot get out of bed. Like once locked myself in a room for a day without my phone and just did a jigsaw for the entire day. Cause I was like, that is how.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:45Speaker 00

  On zero, my, um, like brain is at the moment.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  That is real burnout.

• 48:50Speaker 00

  Fully burnt out. And I've had other times where it's kind of been similar and I've literally just been like, I, well, I've had two other times where I've literally woken up and been like, I, I, I physically, I physically can't do this. Um, and the last time that happened was January last year. So I, and I think that that really started from when in, in like twenty twenty one, I restructured the whole of Tala and had like a huge legal battle to get out of the licensing agreement we were previously in, restructured the entire business. Tala nearly went bankrupt. There was about probably three months where every single week I was wondering if we'd make payroll and just like

• 49:34Speaker 00

  chilling things to be able to like, you know, get that happen all at that point. I think at that point, that was where things, like things never really got out of that burnout zone from then. So I think from, I had then five years after that point or like four years after that point, where I was kind of like teetering on the edge of burnout, but at the same time, believed that in order to do my job, I needed to keep operating to the same capacity. And actually, I, I used to.

• 50:01Speaker 00

  Cry pretty regularly about the fact that I thought I would never be able to start my own family or take maternity leave to any extent because I would not be able to spend a single day out of the businesses. Um, like I just, like, I literally have notes in my phone of being like, I don't know, like, I'm never going to be able to do that. I'm never going to be able to have babies because I'm never going to be able to even spend a week out of the business. Like, I can't even be ill. And so I think that was a real wake up call for me when in the space of two months, I had like two moments where I physically was like, I'm on zero. Like, I'm worried that I'm like physically ill. That's how drained I am. Like, I feel like I, you know, and I'd, I'd actually given myself adrenal fatigue or adrenal dysfunction, I think it

• 50:46Speaker 00

  was, I can't remember. But essentially where my cortisol had actually just like stopped working in the way that it should work because I was so.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  Because you've been driving at such a rapid.

• 50:54Speaker 00

  For so long. And so I think that, like, since that point, that was a real wake up call to kind of be like, okay, well, if this was all engineered to build you the life you want, this is clearly not the life you want. Like, yes, it might be some of the things you want down on paper, but it's, it's clearly not the life you want. Because if you can't think about starting a family, if you can't think about taking your wedding offline, if you can't, like, as in taking the day, or a few days around that, if you can't think, like, all of these different things, and that is not the life you actually want, that's the life that you thought you wanted.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 51:28Speaker 00

  And so since that point in the last year and nearly a half now, I have tried to change every single thing about how I work with the businesses to be able to give them the maximum efficacy and kind of help from, I don't want to say help because they're very capable of, everyone's very capable of doing their own jobs. But like the founder vision, like what you need from a founder and what you need from the operator job I was providing, whilst also stepping away to a helpful extent to be able to maintain everyone's autonomy, to be able to not be micromanaging. Like, I was micromanaging for years because I was just trying to essentially make sure that I.

• 52:13Speaker 00

  You know, I didn't want to do things wrong. I didn't want to have a massive cancellation for the business on socials. I didn't want to, a single social post to go out without me seeing it, or, you know, an event, or a product, or like, whatever. So it was across absolutely everything, which is also not helpful to everyone within the business because no one could do their job without having you over their shoulder. So I essentially, a piece of advice someone had given me about six months before, which I completely ignored, was, one of the best things you can do in this scenario is remove all of your approvals and see what breaks, and pick them up. And I said, well, I don't have the luxury of doing that, because if something breaks, it's going to break on a big enough scale, that I'm gonna, I'm gonna need to take responsibility for it and get the shit for it, as I should, as the founder

• 52:58Speaker 00

  and the owner and the public face and all of this. And I can't deal with that mentally right now, because I'm so on the edge of burnout all the time. Like, I'm so on the edge. And so I felt like I was like trapped in this need to see absolutely everything, and also that not being right for the business, also not being right for me. But if I didn't see absolutely everything, then how could I make sure that things weren't going to explode? But that's what I ended up doing in the end. I ended up removing all of my approvals, and picking back up the things that were genuinely helpful to the business and the people within the businesses. And I've actually started to be able to live my life. Like, even at that point, I wasn't even, I wasn't even ovulating. Like, my whole

• 53:41Speaker 00

  body had gone into, like, shutdown. Like, I wouldn't have been able to, even, like, I tried to change absolutely everything, because I was just at the point where I was like, my body is shutting down from the amount I'm working and the amount of stress I'm under. And this is clearly not conducive, as I said, to the type of life I want to live.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  And then you're living your, because your podcast, Working Hard Hardly Working, right, which is just amazing. Go and listen to it. Honestly, we're gonna leave a link in the show description. Go and check it out. It's fantastic, right? And that, that sort of mantra is how we should really be living life, right? And, and you sort of weren't living true to that.

• 54:10Speaker 00

  A hundred percent. I think I thought the, the

• 54:15Speaker 00

  As long as you do the work side of things, like everything else falls into place because you are able to get yourself into situations where, I don't know, at least you can take an Uber home or like whatever it might be. And actually, just when you, when I built this, I built this massive cage around me and my body was literally rebelling and I was miserable. And I couldn't even do a, like, I couldn't come and do something like this, for example, in the middle of the day, ever, because I was like, oh, that's not gonna work. And also, if I did do anything, like, I would go and speak at a conference and then work till 3am, just getting through specific approvals that I never needed to be on every single day. Like, there was, every single Friday, I'd keep meeting free

• 54:55Speaker 00

  and I'd sit down at my desk at like 7am and I would not stand up until like 10pm and I wouldn't have even made the dent. And that, it just felt like this, yeah, I was on this massive path to burnout slash already there. But over the past year and a half, I've made significant changes and now I'm in a very different place.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  Your husband?

• 55:18Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  He has a lot of fans online.

• 55:21Speaker 00

  Does he?

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:23Speaker 00

  Where? Wait a second. What's he been doing?

• 55:27Speaker 01

  You, uh, you posted and apparently everyone's like, who is this hot stuff?

• 55:34Speaker 01

  You guys met on a dating app?

• 55:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:36Speaker 01

  The moment that you guys started messaging, right? And you started messaging, and the first time you met, you flew to New York, wasn't it?

• 55:43Speaker 00

  No, that was, not that, not that on my toes.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  Okay, well, explain what happened.

• 55:47Speaker 00

  I just had a control issue.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:49Speaker 00

  You think I'm flying to New York? Um, no, we, we met in, in a July years ago and went on a first date then. And then we, he was living in New York at the time.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 56:03Speaker 00

  So he was in London for work.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 56:05Speaker 00

  And he was in London approximately once a month for work. So we'd finally found a date, um, kind of in the July, we'd matched a few months earlier, but just like our dates where he was in London, that kind of hadn't worked. And then, yeah, went on a really nice date. I thought, what a nice date. Then went away, kind of just.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  You didn't think of him as, you weren't just like.

• 56:25Speaker 00

  No, I, as in, I, I thought he was lovely, like, as in, I, I kind of, I actually said it in my vows. The literal text I sent my friend after that was saying, yeah, he's really hot. I love that he lives in New York, so I can't fall in love with him. Which is kind of hilarious, given his baby is now growing all up in here. Um, so, uh, yeah, and he then came back to London about a month and a half later. Went on another date, then he was here for about ten days. So we went on kind of a few dates and by the end of that, I was like, oh shit. I have been got. Um, I was really not looking for a relationship at the time. Which I think actually had a big impact on me asking for enough in that relationship.

• 57:09Speaker 00

  I think traditionally in the, like, in the past, I definitely bent over backwards for people who wouldn't bend over backwards for me. Like, I think that that was, I'm a very high effort person and so I would happily do that. And that was my love language and all of that. And I think that because I wasn't necessarily in the place where I was like wanting a relationship.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:30Speaker 00

  I wasn't trying to be the person they liked, like, I, that wasn't my M O in like going into a date. It wasn't kind of like, exactly, I was just being me. And he showed from the beginning that he was also a high effort person. And was very happy to show that he was into it and show that he was, you know, enjoyed our dates and all of this with absolutely zero gameplay. Which I, which, yeah.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  I'm in.

• 58:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. But like, for example, you know, one of our, uh, when he was in London the second time. That kind of a week in and we'd been on like three dates within that week. So we'd, we'd had a, um. We'd had like such a lovely time and I was then moving house and I was, I was moving into a flat. And I was, um, I had to go to work that morning and I remember I was on a date the night before with him. And I, I, my dog sitter texted to basically say they'd cancelled and said, and I was like, oh shit. I was like, I've got the movers coming in the morning. I've also got to go to a meeting in the morning. So I'm leaving the movers in the house for me to go to a meeting. On brand, um, to come back and then, and then move into the flat.

• 58:41Speaker 00

  And I wanted the dogs out so that they're not running in and out the door, all of this, or the dogs, sorry, there was only one at the time. And he just said, he was just like. He was like, oh, I'm not working tomorrow. He was like, I'll just, I'll have him, I'll have him. And I was like, oh, you really don't need to do that. And he was like, no, it's fine. He was like, I'll just, I'll come around to yours in the morning. I'll pick him up. And I'll, um, I'll, I'll just take him out for brunch. And so he literally came around and took my dog for brunch. Um, while the movers were in the house, I then come back.

• 59:12Speaker 01

  As you whisper, you were like, I love you.

• 59:18Speaker 00

  And so I, I came back.

• 59:20Speaker 01

  Access service.

• 59:21Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Big on access service. And he is big on access service. And we got in, like, got in the moving van, went to the flat. He was like, he was like, I'll just help you move stuff, all of this. He helped me like set up all my furniture. He helped me like, there were the move, there was like a problem with the moving bay. So people were having to like go up loads of stairs, like all of this. There was a number of different things going on. So he was doing like all the runs back and forth, basically doing the removal for, for everyone. And then, you know, at one point he went down to go get more stuff from the moving bay. And there was like a, there was like a small shop, like a kind of express shop. And he did like a full weekly shop for, you know, just like the essentials, just like, you know, you're washing up liquid, you're all of that, that I'm not going to have just having moved in, like your toilet roll, you're just very domesticated stuff.

• 1:00:07Speaker 00

  And so he came back and I was like, I was like, what's that? And he'd also bought, like, there was a little dog toy. He brought my dog a little toy. And he was just like, he was like, oh, I just thought you'd need the essentials, just saves you doing it later. Just like, kind of not even, not like this was a big thing. And I was like, that's what I would do for my friends. As in like, that is the approach I have. Like, I like to make people's life easier and show them love by doing that. And I was like, isn't that lovely?

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  How attractive is that?

• 1:00:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was so attractive.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  And I think this is what men don't realise. Other men are trying to tell other men what is attractive to women, right? But actually, if you listen to women, this is what is attractive.

• 1:00:44Speaker 00

  Well, that required a lot of vulnerability too. Because say he does that and then I'm like, anyway, I'm not actually that into you, but like, thanks so much for the services today. Like, that, it, it's vulnerable. But like, we, you have, in order to get

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  You have to take risks.

• 1:00:58Speaker 00

  You have to have vulnerability.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:01:00Speaker 00

  And so I, I think it was just like those things at the beginning. And I remember at the end of that day, I was like, oh God, my friends are coming around for dinner at the new flat. And I was kind of like, I kind of need to kick him out. But he's obviously helped me move all day. But I was like, I don't really want you at my girl's dinner. So I just said to him, I was like, so tonight, um. I've got some friends coming round and he was like, oh, he was like, he was like, don't worry about it. I'm going for dinner with my mum. And I was like, great, perfect, done.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  With your mum as well.

• 1:01:26Speaker 00

  And then just woke up the next morning to these gorgeous flowers outside my apartment. And I just thought, well, that's me done.

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  When you find a relationship where that happens, it makes you realise that in life that you really should not settle.

• 1:01:41Speaker 00

  A hundred percent. And I think that was the real difference is I kind of, and I think people often say this and it's so infuriating to hear is the kind of like, when you'll know, you'll know, and it will come when you're least expecting it. And like, it will make you realise what shit you've been putting up with in the past. Genuinely, that was fully my experience. And it also let my barriers down in a way that he was leading with that kind of vulnerability. And just being like, well, this is how I like to act in a relationship. So I'm going to act that way. If you reject me based on that or anything else, then that's fine because I'm still true to myself. Whereas like, I definitely, particularly from past relationships, had then got to a point where I was like, well, I'm not going to do any of this until you're this, this and this.

• 1:02:22Speaker 00

  And actually, because he was like that, I was then like, okay, perfect. Well, I can meet you in exactly how I like to be in relationships, which is actually very well matched because we're both very high effort people.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:02:31Speaker 00

  And so I think that that actually, he gets credit for it working at the beginning because actually I think that.

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  Because then you're going in.

• 1:02:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  You're going into the relationship as, hey, this is authentically me.

• 1:02:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  And you're, and you're going, by the way, this is me, here I am.

• 1:02:46Speaker 00

  And if you think it's too much, that's fine.

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:48Speaker 00

  Because this is what I want to be in my ideal relationship. Because I think I'd, I'd had a thing before where I'd essentially thought, clearly my effort level doesn't match the type of people I like to go for, and therefore I should bring that down. Which is fair in certain scenarios, but I think in reality, what I needed to do was bring the effort level up of the people I was with. Because then how amazing if two of you are like high effort people, both trying to make each other's day. Great. Or life, great. Like, that is so.

• 1:03:21Speaker 00

  Ideal, because it also means I can be like, I do some stupidly over the top stuff sometimes. Like, I really like to do the types of things that will make him that happy and all of that. And I think in every past relationship, I just felt like it was too much and.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  Wow, that's that's such a great example, because what you want to do is you want to better each other's lives. So if you're constantly pushing each other's boundaries in like a like a positive way, that's good. You're kind of moving along life in the best way.

• 1:03:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, they always, I think they, the psychologists, always say that like the the people with the best relationships are the people where they're both trying to be the sixty percent or, you know, like when it's like, sometimes it's fifty fifty, sometimes it's sixty forty, sometimes it's ninety ten. Like, if you're both trying to be the sixty percent, then it mitigates for times where actually one of you needs to be ten percent because you're going through something. Or you're having sudden stress or like whatever it might be.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  And then you never resent each other, because when someone else's battery life is at ten percent, you're like, it's okay.

• 1:04:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  Because I know that you, I know what you do on the other side of it. And so therefore you're okay with that.

• 1:04:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  And that is, he, when he proposed to you, it was, I think, was some of the world's greatest, like, I was sort of seeing that and I was like, that motherfucker is really outshone everyone here. He organised a fake trip for you.

• 1:04:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  Explain what happened.

• 1:04:45Speaker 00

  Well, essentially, he wanted to propose somewhere that would be special and exciting and kind of ideally wanted to do it abroad because I think he knew that I wanted it where we were away somewhere and we could just be in a bubble and all of this. But at the same time, he wanted to make sure it's something that he'd fully organised and kind of fully, you know, I don't, just like everything had been managed by him.

• 1:05:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, he wanted, he wanted to feel that this was a moment that he, because the proposal, if you're, if you're a guy proposing in my experience, you want to, this is my moment.

• 1:05:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:18Speaker 01

  This is it.

• 1:05:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, this is, I'm, I'm the one showing all of this. And, um, yeah, he's a big planner, he, believe it or not. Which is quite off brand for me. He is the one who kind of like when I go to the airport with him, I don't even know what airport we're at.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  Get out of here. You relinquish control?

• 1:05:33Speaker 00

  Oh, complete, complete control. Yeah, yeah. I, I could be blindfolded. Like, honestly, amazing. That's why I married the man. And but essentially, he kind of wanted to make it like end to end, something that he felt like was my perfect proposal. But was also, he also kind of was well aware of the fact that I'm a little bit, how do I say?

• 1:05:58Speaker 00

  Nothing gets past me.

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  You're a hard person to surprise.

• 1:06:01Speaker 00

  Exactly. And so I think he really wanted to make sure it was a surprise because I am never surprised. And so he'd reached out to my agent a few months before and essentially said, I'm gonna pop the question. I need your help, essentially, being able to make this convincing enough. So they'd had conversations about it. They'd chosen a brand that we'd worked with before, but not so much that I had like a super close relationship and I would, you know, maybe message them all of this. Got like the invitations done, sent a message, but like before the even in invite was confirmed, there was like a one month before lead of like, by the way, just to check if this comes through, would this be something you'd be interested in, which is quite regular in the.

• 1:06:41Speaker 01

  Oh, the little, the little crisis.

• 1:06:43Speaker 00

  Oh, just had a meeting with Armani, just wanted to double check if this is something.

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  Armani as well, he went for it. Lovely.

• 1:06:51Speaker 00

  Um, and so, yeah, so that came through. And so I was like, yeah, no, would love to do that. And then the actual invite came through and everything was done so perfectly to the point that I actually went kind of insane in the lead up. Because I had this, I just had these spidey senses essentially telling me that this was going to be the proposal through no fault of his own, the poor man. I'd just woken up one morning at like five AM and be like.

• 1:07:21Speaker 00

  It's on that trip, like he's gonna propose on that trip and I don't know what I'd picked up on because it was so, it was so well thought out. And then I was like checking back on all the details and everything was so perfectly done that I was like, there's no way that this is not the, the trip. Because we've got all of the different assets, we've got the like contract come through, we've got like all of, just like all of, it was so watertight. Anyway, then the, the real kind of final thing that made me think, no, you're, this is definitely a brand trip. Was that the night before we were leaving, I was trying on all these different outfits because there was this like big gala dinner.

• 1:08:00Speaker 00

  And I essentially said, you know, I've got nothing to wear and like, I don't like anything and all of this. And he was literally, he was like, you're never like this about brand events. It was, it was just like, he was like, he was like, it's, it's just a brand dinner. You can go, you don't even need to take pictures if you don't like it. Like you don't look me dead in the eyes.

• 1:08:20Speaker 01

  Great.

• 1:08:21Speaker 00

  Cow. And he literally like, was just like, there's just, you know, I don't like, you, you don't usually act like this. And, and so I was like, yeah, no, fine. And I was like, okay, well, it's definitely not a proposal then because he's just lied to my very face.

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  Slightly disappointed?

• 1:08:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  Did you feel slightly, you were like?

• 1:08:36Speaker 00

  Yeah. I did, I was like, oh, well, that's a lot of adrenaline for nothing. I've just got my nails done. And, and then flew out, he'd done everything perfectly. There was a full, there was Armani product everywhere in the room. There were these, like, it had been, it had been done like perfectly. The, um, we'd arrived at the hotel, they'd had briefing calls. So like they arrived, they go, are you here for the Armani event? Um, all of this, like they clearly knew who we were, like what we looked like. They sat us down in the, like when we were checking in and they go like, yep, so the event is down there later, all of this. And so I was like, oh, watertight. It'd flown out an Armani makeup artist to do my makeup in the room. And then, so I was obviously stalking her stories because I was like, well, what's she posting?

• 1:09:21Speaker 00

  On her stories, there's a video of the hotel going here with Armani for their event. Everyone is in on this. Because I'm then like, oh, well, come on, like this is too much. And so, um, I'm then getting ready. And I say to him, I'm like, oh, it doesn't say, because the itinerary is in the, in the room, like beautiful, gorgeous paper. Like this is obviously branded. And it says all of the different things, but it didn't say the location for the drinks that we were going to. And I said, can you phone down and ask where the drinks are because it's not on the thing? And he goes, yeah, no worries. He goes into the bathroom, uses that silly little bathroom phone. Who, who uses the phone when they're taking a shit? Anyway, he literally is like on the phone and he, he's like, hi, can you just tell me, we're here for the Armani event. Could you just tell me, um,

• 1:10:05Speaker 00

  where the drinks are? Has this whole fake phone conversation. Obviously he knows where we're going. And then, um, we take the lift down and I'm like rubbing up against him because I'm trying to work out if there's like a ring in his pocket still at this point. I'm like not dropping it.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  The OCD is really coming out.

• 1:10:20Speaker 00

  Literally, I'm like shivering against him. Um, and then we, yeah, then we get down there and then he, um, we're like down in the front of the hotel, this beautiful setup in the background. And then he, he's like, oh, would you like a few photos here? And takes a few photos and then he hands me back the phone. I'm like, usually the amount of photos you'd give me. Usually I'm given at least sixty more. I'm like, this is far too few. And then he like comes and stands by me. And there was a hat on the floor, um, which was obviously the place that the photographer had put like this is where you should stand. Because the photographer was hidden in the bushes. Um, and so I, I was like standing there and I kind of like gave him back his, my phone to be like, more please. It's like, that's three photos. Like, you think I'm gonna get my photo from that? Absolutely not. And handed it back to him.

• 1:11:06Speaker 00

  Um, and then he just, I can't remember, he literally started his proposal speech with, um, don't be mad. It's like, but, it was like, I'd really like to marry you. And then, um, yeah, proposed. And it was so watertight. Everything was so good. And they'd, he'd like talked to the hotel. They'd stopped anyone else walking outside in that moment. So it's literally like completely clear in the background. Just like every single detail, it's very much who he is.

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  One thing I, I, I, I did see, which is, can I, is, um, which I think is a, is a great thing to talk about, which is prenups.

• 1:11:39Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  It's, it seems like a taboo term that we don't talk about. In America, very open about it.

• 1:11:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  And you, I saw you speak about it very openly, which I thought was a great thing to chat about. Where are you at with that? What do you think about prenups?

• 1:11:53Speaker 00

  Well, I'm at the same place, thankfully. Um, nothing's being used. Um, essentially, I just. We we actually did an in-depth podcast on it um with Vivian Too, who's like your rich BFF online. She's amazing. We love her. And she, one thing she said that's really stuck with me is like, you're signing a contract anyway, you might as well. Like, when in any other scenario, do you just accept the contract and just go like, okay, well, this is the one we're signing? Like, okay, maybe a small little disclaimer to get a facial, but like, other than that, like, not your entire um life and like, all, just all of this stuff. So you might as well design your own contract. It doesn't need to. I think people think of prenups and they're like, oh, well, it's gonna be like this and it's gonna be like this. And actually, we're two people who've got to very exciting points in our careers,

• 1:12:38Speaker 00

  who've entered a marriage, each with assets. Why don't we have a conversation when we're getting on really well? Um, as to what this would look like if we would no longer be together. And you're signing that contract anyway. So I think it's just a, it's a, a good prenup should protect both of you. We'll say they're not well upheld in the UK. Hmm. Um, and you have to refresh them as, like, when any big change happens. So any asset change, a baby, a house change, all of these different things, and still they likely don't stand, like, fully stand up. Um, but I'm sure that will change at some point soon because it kind of, it's quite antiquated. Um, but essentially, I just think that particularly women need to be comfortable having conversations about

• 1:13:22Speaker 00

  finances in a way that has often been seen as so taboo and for so long has been seen so taboo. Um, and I refuse to enter that.

• 1:13:37Speaker 02

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone eighteen Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone and I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series twelve or iPad on them. Everybody listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone eighteen Pro now. No trade-in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series twelve or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

• 1:14:10Speaker 01

  Grace, listen, thank you so much. You are just amazing every single way. We'd like to end the conversation with eight quickfire questions. You ready for this?

• 1:14:17Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:14:17Speaker 01

  What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile and cheers you up?

• 1:14:19Speaker 00

  Shall we get some food?

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  Love that. Best compliment anyone's ever given you?

• 1:14:24Speaker 00

  Um.

• 1:14:27Speaker 01

  We can pass.

• 1:14:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, pass. Sorry, I'll think about it.

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  Don't worry, it's okay.

• 1:14:31Speaker 00

  I have this thing where I need to think about something. I won't think about anything. That's the only time I think about, like, nothing's going on in my brain.

• 1:14:36Speaker 01

  You can, you can message me it later. What scares you most about yourself?

• 1:14:40Speaker 00

  Inability to slow down.

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  Hmm. When was the last time you cried?

• 1:14:43Speaker 00

  Oh, on Sunday, because we were walking outside and it was 35 degrees. And in case it's not very obvious, I'm heavily pregnant. And it was too hot and I felt really uncomfortable, so I cried.

• 1:14:55Speaker 01

  So fair. What's something you can't let go of?

• 1:14:58Speaker 00

  Um.

• 1:14:59Speaker 01

  Coffee? Wine?

• 1:15:01Speaker 00

  Well, no, I've had to give up coffee because I still can't stand the taste, being pregnant. But actually, no, that is quite a good one because I still try and get a coffee most weeks. And I get it and I spend obviously a mortgage on it because we're in London. And then I have one sip and I have to throw it away. And I'll go to a nice place as well.

• 1:15:17Speaker 01

  I like that. What's your guilty pleasure?

• 1:15:19Speaker 00

  Oh, I'm big on reality TV.

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the best. Hundred percent. What turns you off?

• 1:15:23Speaker 00

  I don't like mean people.

• 1:15:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm with you.

• 1:15:26Speaker 00

  I really, like, as in, I don't like being mean for no reason. I don't like trying to make other people feel shit.

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  Feel small. I'm with you.

• 1:15:33Speaker 00

  Like, I just, I don't like it. I don't like seeing it. I don't like seeing it online. I don't like, like, for other people, I think that, like, sometimes you go to people's comment sections, you're like, people are so mean.

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  Oh, have a field day on mine. Go, go and check out mine's.

• 1:15:46Speaker 00

  Oh my god, perfect. Thank you.

• 1:15:49Speaker 01

  What turns you on?

• 1:15:50Speaker 00

  Um.

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  Access service.

• 1:15:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:15:56Speaker 00

  Big proposal in France.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you like most about yourself?

• 1:16:02Speaker 00

  Um.

• 1:16:05Speaker 00

  I do a lot for the people I love and I'm very thoughtful, so.

• 1:16:12Speaker 01

  I love that. Grace, thank you. You're incredible. You're amazing. You're beautiful in every single way. And I really appreciate you spending time with me. You were great company. Thank you so much.

• 1:16:19Speaker 00

  Thank you so much.

• 1:16:22Speaker 03

  You are amazing. Thanks. Can I take my section just get off?

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone. And I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh. Anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them.

• 1:16:50Speaker 01

  Everybody, listen up.

• 1:16:51Speaker 02

  Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for Watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.