GARETH GATES: I Was Beaten Up For My Stammer. Pop Idol Saved Me

Gareth Gates became a household name overnight. When the first series of Pop Idol aired in 2002, it was the first show of its kind and Gareth instantly captured the nation's hearts as the boy who defied his stammer to sing. Growing up in Bradford Gareth was severely bullied at school for his stammer, so convinced he was defective that he almost didn't audition for Pop Idol at all. In our conversation, Gareth opens up about the whirlwind of Pop Idol fame, and how he's spent the years since learning to accept the very thing he once felt ashamed of. In this episode, Gareth shares: Being bullied at school and how joining a choir became his escapeWhy he almost didn't audition for Pop IdolThe reality of being thrown into the whirlwind of fameHow his relationship with Katie Price changed the way he approaches loveHow he's finally learned to accept his stammer as part of who he is Gareth Gates is one of the kindest people I’ve ever met. He reminded me that being different isn't something to hide - it's the thing that makes you, you. Gareth Gates is Great Company. Check out Gareth’s tour HERE boybandinthebuff.com Gareth’s Instagram - @gareth_gates https://www.instagram.com/gareth_gates/?hl=en If you enjoyed the show, you can also follow us: Instagram-@greatcompanypodcast https://www.instagram.com/greatcompanypodcast/# TikTok -@greatcompanypodcast https://open.acast.com/networks/611e511b4ec6dc00134bced2/shows/65d737dfdc02e00016c413b2/episodes/www.tiktok.com/@greatcompanypodcast Jamie -@jamielaing https://www.instagram.com/jamielaing/?hl=en-gb And if you've got thoughts, questions and comments, you can email us at: [email protected] THE CREDITS Producer: Helen Burke Assistant Producer: Issy Weeks-Hankins Video: Josh Bennett Senior Social Media Manager: Laura Coughlan Audio: Rafi Amsili Geovannetti Executive Producer: Ewan Newbigging-Lister Great Company is an original podcast from JamPot. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I became the boy that wasn't able to speak but could sing. I have a stammer, you know, so I'm finding it hard. My name is.

• 0:08Speaker 00

  You find it in the strangest places. Having a stammer is hard. It was hell at school. I was badly bullied. Like, lads would hold me down in the playground and say, let's beat the words out of him, you know. It was a very lonely place.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  You started singing. What did that do for you?

• 0:27Speaker 00

  I could finally get out of me what was in me and I could express myself through music and that changed my life. Hey, I'm Gareth Gates and I'm in great company.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  You had sold 3.5 million records worldwide by the time you were 18 years old. Simon Cowell was right.

• 0:47Speaker 00

  I saw pound signs in his eyes when I couldn't speak.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Katie Price claimed in one of her books that she took your virginity.

• 0:55Speaker 00

  That was tough. It just kind of made me extremely wary of people in the industry. This, you know, literally all happened before I was, before I was 18. If you actually find it hard to talk as it is, you never talk. That's a problem of mine, you know. I don't talk much. I don't, you know, sort of air what's in my mind. You can't help but feel like it's a defect.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  You don't still believe that, do you?

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Hey guys, welcome back to Great Company. Now, I am beyond excited for today's guest on the show because it's full of everything. It's got nostalgia, it's got heartache, it's got love. And he's probably one of the kindest people I've ever had the pleasure of interviewing. It's Mr Gareth Gates. Now, if you watched Pop Idol back in the day, you'll know exactly who Gareth Gates is. Because when I was 13, 12 years old and I was watching the final of Pop Idol, Gareth Gates was the person in the final. What I didn't know that I know now is that he has struggled throughout his life with a speech impediment. And the only time that he doesn't really stutter or stammer is when he is singing. So we hear about a story, we hear about what it was like growing up, feeling

• 2:13Speaker 01

  different, feeling like an outsider, doing Pop Idol and life since then. Also, within our show today, we have Chris, who's also going to join the show. He's a speech therapist. Now Gareth feels much more comfortable when Chris is in the room. We have a camera on him and a mic on him. So when you see and hear Chris, you'll know exactly who he is. He himself also has a speech impediment. And it's incredible to see this relationship between the two of them. Now, before we start the show, I would just like to ask you one thing, like I always do, if you could please subscribe to our show and join the amazing community of followers and subscribers that are already with us. It keeps allowing us to make a better show, keeps delivering on the guests that you want, and keep making the show bigger and better every single day.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  If you do that one thing for us, thank you so much. Enjoy this beautiful episode of Great Company with Gareth Gates. Gareth, firstly, I said to you before, I'm so excited for this.

• 3:06Speaker 00

  As am I, mate.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  We also have Chris in the room. And perhaps rather than me explaining who Chris is, who's Chris?

• 3:12Speaker 00

  Chris is my speech coach. We both share the affliction of stammering and we're on the same speech therapy programme. And so every time I have an interview like this, whether it be on a live television programme, or radio, or a podcast like this, I have him around. He isn't a sort of trained speech therapist, he's more of a mentor. We share the same affliction. And he will throw things at me if I don't speak properly. So I'll be dodging them all the way through.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  And Chris, you're on mic, so you can say something, can't you, Chris?

• 3:53Speaker 02

  I can say anything I want, yes. I can abuse.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  What is your, what is your relationship like with Chris? Just so I understand that a little bit more. Because I met Chris, and Chris explained to me that he also has a stammer.

• 4:07Speaker 00

  Having a stammer is hard. It's an affliction I've suffered with my whole life as a kid. It was hell at school. It was traumatic. Answering a register was, you know, something that I feared every single day. Reading aloud in class was hard work. I actually once peed myself in class because I couldn't ask the teacher to go to the toilet. And that, you know, can you imagine that as a child, they're mortifying. And so it was a very lonely place as a kid. I didn't know anybody else who had a stammer.

• 4:52Speaker 00

  And, you know, I felt like I was the only person going through this. And then some 10 years after that, I found a program called the McGuire Program. And it's filled with people who stammer, basically. And it's run by people who share that same affliction. So we're all in it together. And yeah, ever since then, I've been using this new way of speaking, brand new way of breathing, and more importantly, a new way of tackling the mindsets that come with having a stammer, which is avoidance. I used to avoid situations like this at all costs. You know, any time I was asked to do an interview on TV, I'd say no.

• 5:36Speaker 00

  But it's funny, it wasn't until you start to say yes and push yourself into those fearful situations that things began to change and that fear begins to kind of melt away a little bit.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  Do you know that they always say that exposure is the best form of therapy? And we don't do that because if you have a fear of spiders, you don't go near spiders. Right? If you have a fear of water, you don't go near water. A fear of speaking, you don't want to speak, right? But you have to almost approach those places and force yourself into them to kind of get over them.

• 6:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, Pop Idol, you know, 24 years ago, I didn't want to do Pop Idol.

• 6:12Speaker 00

  My mum saw an advert in the local newspaper.

• 6:17Speaker 00

  Saying, are you the next Robbie Williams? Are you the next Kylie Minogue? Are you the next idol? And I kind of viewed an idol as the image of perfection, a person you aspire to be. You know, and I just wasn't that. I wasn't perfect at all. In fact, I was defected. Yeah, I couldn't speak. Um, and yes, I didn't want to enter that, that competition at all. Uh, but with a bit of sort of gentle persuasion from my mum, I did. And you're, you're absolutely right. It wasn't until I forced myself to do those interviews and those, you know, live things on TV that I began, you know, to sort of get a grip of it. It was, it was awful and it was hell at the time because you don't want to be

• 7:02Speaker 00

  exposed as being different or, um, you know, having this problem. Uh, but you know, you're, you're absolutely right. It wasn't until I faced that, that I began to get a bit of a hold on it.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Can I be honest with you guys? I find it so hard that you say it's like defected. You don't, you don't still believe that, do you?

• 7:21Speaker 00

  Um, I.

• 7:24Speaker 00

  It's, it's tough when you go through the things that I went through as a kid. You know, I was badly bullied, like lads would hold me down in the, in the playground and say, let's beat the words out of him, you know, that, that, that pain and that hurt and that trauma um, still stays with me now. And it's like, you, you can't help but feel like it's a defect. I, I fully embrace it now because, you know, it's, it's part of me. And I've, and I've learned that being different isn't such a bad thing. But when you've been through that hell, then it's, it's hard to not,

• 8:06Speaker 00

  um, you know, have a, have a negative association with it, I guess.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  Gareth, I didn't want to

• 8:14Speaker 02

  interrupt you in mid-flow.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  But that's not a hundred percent.

• 8:19Speaker 00

  Okay, cool.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  You can speak much better than that.

• 8:24Speaker 00

  Okay, cool.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Why does it make you feel more comfortable with Chris around?

• 8:28Speaker 00

  Believe me, without Chris here, my speech wouldn't be nearly as fluent or as eloquent as what it is.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  I wasn't happy with that either. Come on, get it right.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  As fluent or as eloquent as what it is now. And just having him here, pulling me up like he just did, is exactly what I need, because I often start off strong in these chats.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:55Speaker 00

  But then everything kind of spirals because I talk too fast and then I start to stumble over my words.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  But can you explain this to me? And also with Chris as well, you can jump me because, and I want to tread carefully here. What the way Chris, you sort of talk to Gareth would be, it's almost like a sort of command in a way. And is that how it has to, how the relationship has to happen in order to you feel calmer?

• 9:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not immediately obvious, but I'm a little bit older than Gareth.

• 9:23Speaker 02

  I think that gives me a little bit of an advantage to be slightly authoritarian. That's not in my nature, but for me, the symbiosis of it is based on that, that I'm, I feel older. We're on the same programme. We know how to use the same techniques, which I just did then. And I think that's how it works. For me, that's the only way I can do it.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Wow. And talk me through the breathing, breathing technique Gareth, because I can, I can see that when you're doing your breathing, right? What is that technique?

• 9:59Speaker 00

  It's retraining your costal diaphragm. Every time you speak, you breathe. And then you speak and then you release the air that you don't use. And then we pause again. So it's pause, breathe, speak, release. And our diaphragm as a stammerer has been kind of trained over the years to freeze in fearful situations. That's where you get, you know, and it's very, it's, it's stuck. And so we're now.

• 10:29Speaker 00

  Retraining that to have its sort of full range of motion, as it were.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Can I just say, this is so powerful. It truly is. Like, I just wanna be like, it's really powerful. Always, maybe because my emotions are high anyway, but it makes me emotional for some, whatever reason. I recently watched the movie, I swear.

• 10:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, yes. I also watched it and I was extremely moved.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  It is phenomenal.

• 10:50Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  It is so, um, John Davidson, John Davidson has Tourette's and it's about his life and how he grew up and how tough it was growing up because no one understood what he was going through. And with Tourette's, if anyone doesn't know what it is, it's where you have sort of a sudden outburst of sort of tics or you say things that you shouldn't probably say in public and you can't control it. It's like trying to sneeze but holding the sneeze in, right?

• 11:12Speaker 00

  Yes, that's right.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  And watching that, I just felt so sorry for someone who was going through something so horrendous and no one understands it and actually it's just crap. But raising awareness to these things is so important because there are so many people out there who have stammers who are probably listening to this right now and thinking, God, maybe one day I can do this. I can achieve what you've achieved.

• 11:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think one of the proudest moments of my career and my life is that I heightened the awareness of stammering with Pop Idol, you know, and that exposure. People still now come up to me, stammerers, and say, you know, thank you for being so open about it, talking about it. You know, at school when I was going through it, it was, I felt very, very lonely. If only there was a person in the public eye that I could go, well, actually, I'm like them.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:05Speaker 00

  That would just made things much easier because I was the only person in my school that had a stammer. So nobody knew what it was and it was like, you're just a freak or you're different or you're weird.

• 12:18Speaker 00

  You know, so you're absolutely right, heightening awareness. Actually, and I haven't really spoke about it yet because it's a bit too early, but I've actually written a musical called Speechless, which is about this. And we had a workshop two weeks ago of the first.

• 12:38Speaker 00

  Half of it. We've only written the first half. We're writing the the the next half this year. And then we've pencilled in a a theatre in the West End for next year. And and it's very, very, very powerful. I can't sort of give too much away, but that's about, again, you know, heightening the awareness and getting that that message out there, not even to people that, you know, have this same affliction as me, to anybody who has anything that, you know, they feel holds, holds them back. You don't have to accept, you know, everything you're given in life. You can, um, you know, you can change and you can be any anything you want to be, um, you know, and I think that's the message. Well, I'm trying to sort of bang on my drum.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  Can I ask, does it go, you said that your stamina gets worse during interviews like this or so like on news, whatever. Is that because it's it's an anxiety thing? Not it's not an everything, but it becomes worse when nerves kick in.

• 13:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, in in more pressurised situations, things become a bit bit harder. But I think also I start off extremely well in interviews because Chris is very firm. But then, as I get talking, you know, I've got a lot to say, you know, and and I'm and I'm absolutely fluent up here, but sometimes it just gets stuck.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  That's interesting, because what you want to do is you want to get your story out and you and as we talk and when we're passionate about something like I'm doing right now, our speech gets quicker.

• 14:05Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  It gets faster. You get more excited.

• 14:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  But you have to control it the whole time, because if you don't control it, then you start to stammer too much.

• 14:13Speaker 00

  Yes, and then it it's a spiral then. As soon as I start stammering, just everything starts to unravel. And that's when Chris.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Steps in.

• 14:21Speaker 00

  Gets airtime.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  I'd actually quite like you to regroup.

• 14:28Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 14:28Speaker 02

  For twenty seconds, just breathe a bit and slow right down. That'd be good. Yeah.

• 14:35Speaker 00

  Good.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  You all right?

• 14:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  I just want to take you back to school times, right? When did your stammer start? When did you notice it?

• 14:43Speaker 00

  For as long as I can remember, my my dad had a stammer actually when when he was young. He was one of the very, very fortunate ones that grew out of it. Um, I I haven't, my my middle sister Charlotte has a stammer to two. Yeah, you know, it was tough at school. It was it was some of the hardest hardest years of my life, but um. It's funny, it's made me the person that I am now. It's made me very, very, very resilient. I can I can handle a lot more pressure and and and fear of of stuff without it, you know, kind of breaking me.

• 15:22Speaker 00

  Um, yeah, and and although it was tough at the time, um, in a sort of weird sort of way, I'm quite thankful that I went through that.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  This is in Bradford, right?

• 15:32Speaker 00

  Yes, yeah.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  So it's in Bradford where you grew up. And just just talk me through those moments when you would go to school, because I could imagine kids are cruel, right? Wha- what kind of things were happening in the school?

• 15:44Speaker 00

  It was, you know, a daily anxiety would set in from, you know, from the morning, from when the teacher would read out the register. And you have say, yes, miss, and I and I literally wasn't able to. It was, we'd call it the creeping death, where you know, you know, the there's two more people before your name's going to be read out. There's one more person, then and then that anxiety uh creeps in and creeps in and the fear starts to rise. And then I'd be like, I'd struggle saying, yes, miss, and then the classroom would laugh. It's exactly the same with reading.

• 16:27Speaker 00

  You have to go along and read a sentence or paragraph from whatever book we're studying. And, you know, you see that it's four people away, it's three people away, shit, shit. Oh, God, you know, and and the anxiety and then, yeah, we it it was awful. And we all know what kids are like, you know, I don't blame those kids because they were kids, you know, and.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  So you were also a kid, so it's hard to.

• 16:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, but.

• 16:57Speaker 00

  You know, again, it goes back to what I was saying earlier. It's like there was, there was nobody else in school that had a stammer. There was nobody in the public eye I could say I'm like them. So, you know, we were all kind of blind and um yeah, I've I forgive them for laughing. I do and and and I forgive people on a day to day basis when they laugh. Whenever I'm in a restaurant, for instance. Now, one of the things that us stammerers go through, we do, we say, we avoid words that we know that we're going to find hard and we replace them with words that we know that are easier. The hardest thing for a stammerer to say is their name because it's

• 17:39Speaker 00

  the first thing you have to tell somebody when you first meet them. Hey, you know, he shakes him as that. You're supposed to tell them your name. You know, as a, as a kid, I told people that my name was something else. You know, my middle name's Paul, so I'd call myself Paul or John or whatever, you know, you know, and can you imagine how soul destroying that?

• 18:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:03Speaker 00

  That is, your, your name is your identity. It's who you are. But it's, it's the hardest thing for a stammerer to say. I'm, I'm, I'm sure there was thousands of people when I went on TV for the first time and, you know, there was like, wait a minute, his name's not Gareth, it's Paul or John. You know, I'm, I'm sure there were lots of people that was uh extremely confused, but yeah.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  But why is it that? Because it's the pressure of saying you. I'm just trying to understand that.

• 18:28Speaker 00

  It's, there's, there's only one answer to that question, isn't there? Whereas a stammerer uh will avoid words like, for instance, um

• 18:44Speaker 00

  you wanna um odd, um, try to think of an example.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  But I get it. I get it with the name because there's only one answer.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  You joined the choir at nine years old, wasn't it?

• 18:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Bradford choir?

• 18:59Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  And you started singing?

• 19:01Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  What did, what did that do for you? What did that make you feel when you started singing?

• 19:06Speaker 00

  Well, I hadn't been able to speak at all as a kid. And then, uh, at the age of eight, actually.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  At all?

• 19:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, um, I, I just find it very hard. I'd be really sort of evidently struggling, you know, to everybody around me. You know, I, I, I remember being four or five years old and just not being able to speak. And, you know, the impact that having of, you know, everybody, everybody laughing or mocking. You know, I, I have those early memories.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  Wow, even as early as four?

• 19:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  Isn't it crazy how that sticks with you?

• 19:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  We, we think four year olds, like just, we think, oh, they're just four year olds. They can't remember that, they're never gonna remember, but you remember those moments so well, like it was yesterday almost.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's strange, you can't really remember much else about those times, but you remember the, you know, the hard times. Um, but at the age of eight, actually, before I joined the Bradford Cathedral,

• 20:05Speaker 00

  I, my first school were putting on a production of Joseph and his amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. I was a very shy young boy that couldn't speak. And so, you know, I wasn't going to be attending those auditions, you know, but my friends were going along and they sort of encouraged me to go along. And I was just asked to sing on the spot by the music teacher. And I sang and for the first time, kind of music came flooding out of my mouth, my lips, my tongue wasn't tense. And I could finally get out of me what was in me and, and I could express myself through music. And that, that changed my life. I, I remember that first day, eight years old.

• 20:48Speaker 00

  Like just we it just changed everything just poured out of me.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  What were you singing?

• 20:53Speaker 00

  Any Dream Will Do from Joseph and I just and I just sang and that changed my world. I I then knew from then on, you know, that my all my energy had to be put into music. And that's when I learned to play the piano, the guitar, the drums. And I spent hours on my instruments and singing because that was the only way I could get out of me, what was in me. And and that kind of changed everything, you know, mu- music saved me because, you know, I don't know what I'd be doing without it. You know, I I I had an outlet at last.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  Why do you think it was? What do you think it is about the music? Why do you think singing made you relax, made you not feel tense in your tongue?

• 21:34Speaker 00

  I'm I don't know. I mean, I there's I don't know. I think.

• 21:43Speaker 00

  You know, every time I sing, I adopt a different persona. I'm not me. I, you know, I'm wearing a mask, you know, I've done lots of big western shows, I've done Les Mis, I've done Joseph. Um, you know, Footloose, Legally Blonde, um, you know, all those shows have um big kind of lots, lots of dialogue where you have to speak and and act. And it's and it's strange. Once I've learned a script and I'm acting, I'm walking in a different way, breathing in a different way, often in a different accent, you know, I'm not me, I'm not Gareth, I'm Gareth Gates the singer or I'm whatever role I'm playing in in those shows.

• 22:27Speaker 00

  And it's it's a crazy thing in the mind that I just.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  Your stamina goes?

• 22:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  Gareth, that is just, that's crazy.

• 22:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is crazy.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 22:37Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  I'm try I'm trying in my own body and head to understand why that happens.

• 22:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Because that's a magical thing.

• 22:43Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  But also an upsetting thing because it's when when you're not being yourself, that's the moment your stamina sort of softens a little.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, it is upsetting that I can't be like that when I'm just being me. But, you know, I don't see it like that. I I see it as that that kind of saved me.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:01Speaker 00

  That was my lifeline and that's what I kind of grabbed on to, held on to. And I was like, I'm gonna put ev- everything into this.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  Have you ever met any of your bullies again? Have you ever seen them or spoken to them?

• 23:12Speaker 00

  Um. Well, after Pop Idol, I was doing my A levels at the time. So I was in my second year of A levels.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  This is after Pop Idol?

• 23:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, so the, the live shows for Pop Idol started at the end of

• 23:34Speaker 00

  two thousand and one, you know, and, and it was

• 23:38Speaker 00

  December, I think, when the live shows actually started. So I'd already started my last year of A levels. You know, and

• 23:45Speaker 01

  So young.

• 23:46Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Crazy young.

• 23:48Speaker 00

  And I was, um, I was at the school that I'd been at since the age of eleven. So there was lots of bullies there that, you know, kind of witnessed that and saw that. Um, and then in the February or something, you know, it was still, um, part of the sort of academic year, you know, I went back to the school to, you know, to give us to, uh, to perform in assembly or something like that. Um, and yeah, there were quite a few of the bullies that kind of walked past like tail between the legs. Um.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  What was that? What was that?

• 24:25Speaker 01

  You bet it did. I bet it felt, I mean, yeah.

• 24:28Speaker 00

  No, but I, I

• 24:29Speaker 01

  I bet that felt unbelievable.

• 24:31Speaker 00

  Yeah. And why it felt nice was because, you know, up until Pop Idol, having a, having a stammer was a very negative thing in my life because of those people that they made it a negative thing.

• 24:46Speaker 00

  But for the first time on Pop Idol, you know, having a stammer actually made me stand out from the crowd. And in a weird way,

• 24:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:55Speaker 00

  it, it was a positive thing. You know, I became the boy that wasn't able to speak but could sing. And having a stammer got me noticed for all the right reasons, whereas in the past it was for the wrong reasons. And I was like, this is crazy. Um, you know, so seeing those people that made me feel that way as a kid, you know, was, yeah, was actually quite nice.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Can we, uh, can we talk about Pop Idol?

• 25:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, please.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Oh, my.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  Gareth, before you do, will you do something for me?

• 25:28Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Guess what I'm going to ask?

• 25:32Speaker 00

  Slow down, take a few breaths.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  You're really quite quick and

• 25:38Speaker 02

  Tripping up here and there. So yeah, would be really just to, I know when you're passionate, of course, that's the price we pay. We have to distance ourselves from the passion, the enthusiasm and control everything.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  But I can, but it's interesting you say that because I can still feel the passion, right?

• 25:59Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Which is kind of amazing.

• 26:01Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Pop Idol. So when I was, I went to a boarding school and um I say this every time, I went to, it was like, the audience was like, yes, we know.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  But every uh Saturday night, I think it was, so I must have been, I must have been thirteen, twelve.

• 26:17Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  And every Saturday night, we would um go and watch it. As, as you've been in your boarding house and you go and watch it, we'd watch Pop Idol. And it was the, it was like the greatest thing.

• 26:29Speaker 00

  Who did you vote for? Here we go.

• 26:33Speaker 00

  Next question.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  I wasn't allowed to vote because I was in boarding school, but I, but I, but I, I, I remember just being in awe of you and it was like the most exciting, it was the first like singing competition. For, for me, it was like blowing my mind that this was like something we could watch on, on TV, but you were in it, you experienced it.

• 26:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  And it was the height, it was, there was no real social media. It was, it was the, the height of like paparazzi and media and, and clips and camera and oh my god. What was it like for you, that whole process?

• 27:01Speaker 00

  It was, it was crazy. I, I, I look back on that time with only kind of fond memories.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  You do, so it was all amazing, wasn't it?

• 27:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, it was tough at times of, of course, but you know, Pop Idol was the first of its kind, well before X Factor and the likes. And so nobody really knew what it was or what it was to become or how it would change people's lives. You know, all the shows that came after that, you know, had, had seen how it had, you know, exploded me and Will and, and, and how we had this, this career now. We sold lots of records and toured and you know, and was, you know, all over the newspapers and the magazines. So people who did it afterwards had a bit of a head start because they knew exactly what they were getting in, into.

• 27:47Speaker 00

  Whereas, you know, we went in blind. It was, it was a first of its kind. And, you know, I'm, I'm fortunate that I was young because.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  You was seventeen?

• 27:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, seventeen, I was, I was a boy.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  That's a baby.

• 28:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, and you know, two. To um to experience that as a boy and to be able to do e- exactly what you love every day and to be able to have whatever you want and you know, live this you know, kind of gorgeous life. It was, yeah, it it was amazing.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  What was the audition process like?

• 28:20Speaker 00

  Um, that was tough. You know, I I genuinely walked into that room thinking there we're gonna go, you can't speak, you aren't an idol. Um. You know, I'd watched people like, people like Robbie Williams, who has the gift of the gab. And his show is as much about that as it is the music. And so I thought, well, I have them, I can sing, I've trained in music my whole life. Uh, I can do that side of things. But the other, there's, there's, there's no chance. And I was more concerned about speaking in the audition than actually singing. You know, I wasn't even thinking about the performance.

• 29:03Speaker 00

  Um, but when they said, yeah, you're through to the live finals, I was like, wow, that just. Yeah, I was, I was as as surprised as anybody else, I think.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  We had Will Young on the podcast.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  He's such a nice guy.

• 29:18Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, he's the, he's the best guy as well. I am.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  And apparently you guys still chat even.

• 29:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we um, we went through a lot together. You know, we was together at the start of that process and the end. And then we toured together, we had a number one together. In fact, recently, um, I had a message from, from Will saying, um, well, basically, he's moved um, out to Wiltshire now. And he texted me saying, have you got a place in this tiny little village in in Wiltshire? And I was like, yes, I have a. Two bed apartment there that I bought because it's opposite the sc- school that my daughter goes to.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:03Speaker 00

  Um, so, so I literally bought it for when I'm um not on the road, you know, I can sort of gravitate to there to see, you know, her, spend time with her, et cetera. He said, I've literally just bought a place in the exact same village.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  That's absolutely mad.

• 30:18Speaker 00

  No, but the, the smallest village in, in Wiltshire and, you know, both kind of pop idol contestants are there.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  You're like Kindred Souls, like what is that? That's bizarre that you find the same place.

• 30:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Um, he did say though, on the podcast, he said, um, Pop Idol was a blessing and a curse because lots of people criticised him on the show. What was your experience of that?

• 30:42Speaker 00

  I, I think that that show was actually made for somebody like me. You know, I, I think I'm guilty for creating the kind of story led contestants. What I mean by that is that, you know, all the sh- sh- shows after that, they weren't, you know, sort of only interested in your talent. It was the story that you came with, you know, your, your, um, you know, um, uh, try to think of an example, um.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  It is, it's your background, it's the story, it's everything. It's, it's, it's not, it's not just the, it's not just the talent. It's, it's the whole package.

• 31:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  Of like where you've come from, where you are now, everything, right?

• 31:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I genuinely think that if it wasn't for Pop Idol or that kind of format of TV show, then I'd have found it very, very hard to get in, into the industry because of my stammer. You know, I wouldn't have been able to do the promotion, you know, the, the interviews on, on the live television shows or on the radio. You know, I'd have, I'd have really struggled with that. I had the talent, but I didn't have the kind of personality that you need as, as, as an artist. For fans, you know, to kind of latch on to.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  But you you you do have the personality. That's the thing. And that that must be the trickiest thing for you. You had the personality. In your in your head, you know, you've got the personality. You just can't get it out because you have the stammer.

• 32:19Speaker 00

  Yes, that's the most frustrating thing, you know, in my in my life. I want people to see. Me, you know, and they can't at times. Um, but. Pop Idol was perfect for me because it showed my story, you know, people kind of labelled me that. Boy that can't speak but can sing.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  That's incredible.

• 32:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, so for me, you know, that show was was made for me. Um, yeah.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  Simon Cowell um kind of took you under his wing from the start in lots of ways. He just saw you as his boy. And he saw, I think Simon Cowell must have seen, it was the first time Simon Cowell was on TV as well.

• 33:01Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  He was first time he was a judge, right?

• 33:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's right. And I think he, you know, he's a. He's a god in terms of knowing what will s- sell.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:15Speaker 00

  Sell. And I'm absolutely sure that he, you know, heard me speak and then heard me sing and thought. Wow, we can, you know, we can absolutely market this.

• 33:28Speaker 00

  I I saw.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  He did.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  I saw hand signs in his eyes when I couldn't speak.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  Wait, this guy's got a stammer. Here we go, guys.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  How do you, how do you, because that show part, it was huge. I mean, it it like, it, I mean, it took over everything. And it it was a movement, right? And that comes with a lot of fame at such a young age. Seventeen years old, seventeen years old, I'm like having my first Bacardi breather. Like, I'm not, I I I'm not like. You know what I mean? I'm just experiencing maybe having a cigarette, you know, whatever it is. How did you handle fame when it hits like that so and so quickly?

• 34:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  And at such scale?

• 34:14Speaker 00

  I think my age actually helped, um, because it was just all fun for me.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  Because you were naive.

• 34:21Speaker 00

  Yes, yeah, because you didn't really think about the business end of it or the. You you you're just like, wow, this is this is really incredible. Um, I just enjoyed it. It was tough at times, you know, and they, you know, sort of ask a lot of you. Um, but when you're having the success that, you know, that I had, I had number one after number one after number one. And then it's, you know, it becomes, you know, I could then s- s- start to support my family and, um, you know, give them the the lifestyle that I had and, you know,

• 35:02Speaker 00

  all all those sort of lovely things you can do, you know, as as a result of being successful was I enjoyed that side of things.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  I'd like to stop you, Gareth. Apologies, Jamie, for my consistent interruptions.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  You can keep interrupting. I don't mind one bit.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  You know, Gareth, how you said that you start well and then you speed up.

• 35:28Speaker 02

  Shall we start, regroup and start?

• 35:31Speaker 00

  Cool. I'm happy you jumped in.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, great. Thanks.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  You had sold three point five million records worldwide by the time you were eighteen years old.

• 35:41Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  Simon Cowell was right.

• 35:45Speaker 00

  That's right. That's a lot of records. Yeah, it was it was great. I I was thankful for thankful for Simon, you know, he he saw that in me. He,

• 36:03Speaker 00

  you know, as you said earlier on, I was I was his his boy. I heard a story from a person who was in the room on my first audition. And they said that when I left, he raised his hands and said, we've f- found our pop idol, you know, from the from that early on. He just, you know, sort of knew, you know, that was, you know, exactly what exactly what they were looking for.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  But you, because you had the voice, you had the look, you had the story, you, you had, you had the whole package. And that's why those shows are so brilliant. Because, as you said, which is upsetting, is um, you don't think you would have made it into the industry unless it was for a show like that. So what those shows highlight are people who are incredibly talented, who deserve to have a moment.

• 36:48Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  You know, have that success that they deserve.

• 36:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  And that was it for you there.

• 36:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's, and it's happened over and over again with many artists, you know, in those, in those shows, you know, for instance, Susan Boyle, for instance, you know, would have, would have never have, you know, had, had the success that she had on that show, you know, kind of worldwide, you know, that's the example.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Can I ask you a um, big question? When you're standing there in the final, and I'm watching it, twelve years old, in my boarding house, and you're there and you're standing next to Will Young, right? And the names are announced.

• 37:29Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  I'm thinking it's gonna be you, winning it. Are you thinking it's going to be you as well?

• 37:35Speaker 00

  No, I, no.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  You're not? Because when Will's name was announced, I was like, sorry? What's happened here?

• 37:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, I, I um, you know, I certainly didn't expect, and, you know, anything. Yeah, I, I, I think they were, I, I was certainly surrounded by people that were like, you know, this is in the bag, you've got this. But, you know, I didn't choose to believe that. I still then thought, you know, I'm not an idol, I'm not the image of perfection, I'm not that person. Um, and hey, if I'd have lost to anybody but Will, I'd have been fuming.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:17Speaker 00

  But um, you know, he was, he's a, he's a, he's a talent and he's a lovely man. And um, yeah.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  And shout out to Will, by the way, who, Will, if you're listening to this, and I'm, I wanted you to win as well.

• 38:30Speaker 00

  I knew it.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  With fame and things like that, what happens, especially at a young age, that comes with just everything else. Like, it comes with, you know, as soon as you finish pop art, you got flown to Miami or Florida to record the album or record Unchained Melody, isn't that right?

• 38:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, so literally the next day. I mean, you know, that, that week of the final, both me and Will, we signed our album deal, you know, before the final actually happened. So we knew we were going to be artists and make a record.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  Can I be really personal? And you don't have to answer. When you were that young, you were seventeen, eighteen years old and you signed a record deal, what does that record deal look like?

• 39:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, big. It was, it was, uh, I can't, I can't remember the exact figures, but it's, you know,

• 39:19Speaker 00

  but it was, it was something like half a million pound and, you know, and in those days, you know, that was, that was big. You know, someone like me, you know, that had come from very, very little, that was, that was big. That was like life changing. Um, you know, and then everything else had come off the back of it. You know, I had big sponsorship deals, you know, and then the more you sell and then, you know, all those big, big tours in massive arenas. You know, I was, I was earning a lot of money, you know, and to be able to, as I said earlier, you know, to then sort of take care of your family. You know, the first house I bought was a house for my parents and my sisters who were very, very young at the time, you know, to be able to do that and to be able to give back to

• 40:04Speaker 00

  them who'd, you know, invested everything into me was the nicest feeling ever.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  You become super famous, you're, you're singing, you're touring. That also comes with like, um, I imagine like a lot of female attention.

• 40:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was great. Uh, it was, it was, you know, just imagine being a young boy and having, you know, everybody, you know, sort of at your, at your feet. It was, uh, it was great. You know, but, but, but more so, you know, I wasn't able to chat up girls.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  This is what I want to understand, right?

• 40:42Speaker 00

  It was my worst nightmare. So to not have to chat up girls and put the work in, it's brilliant.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Because I, that's what I, you know, that's what, when, you know, growing up my teens, right, especially when I was younger, when I hit the age of like fourteen years old, it was all about dating.

• 41:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  I just wanted to go to like, meet girls and go to the other schools and hang out and flirt and do all the things I'd seen on TV. And it was just the most exciting time, right? But I imagine for you growing up, that was a really scary time because you couldn't.

• 41:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Flirt or chat or date or do anything because you were nervous about talking.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, and you know, I avoided it at all costs. Um, you know, being able to sing and um, being sort of good at music at school gave me some respect, you know, and some attention from girls then. But yeah, I was, I was debilitatingly shy. I, it was, it was, it was hard. Um, you know, so, so fame and that exposure on the television, you know, really, really helped my love life too, which is good.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  I have to mention this.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  And you, we can, we can pass over it, don't we?

• 42:05Speaker 00

  My stammer's going to become very bad now and I'm not going to be able to get a word out.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  Chris can answer me.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  You're on your own, Gareth.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  Katie Price.

• 42:18Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Katie Price claimed in one of her books that, you know, she took your virginity.

• 42:26Speaker 00

  No comment.

• 42:29Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, hey, I was.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  Is there truth in that or?

• 42:31Speaker 00

  I, I, I'll just say I was extremely inexperienced with a girl that was extremely experienced. So, um, yeah, I could see why she thought that.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:45Speaker 01

  It's a very good answer.

• 42:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  But but you did, but you did, and I'll go over this very quickly. It's just important to mention, right?

• 42:52Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  You you said that when that whole happened and she spoke about that, you felt that people almost didn't take you seriously afterwards in a way.

• 43:01Speaker 00

  It was, it was, I, I haven't ever spoke about relationships, you know, I, you know, I believe that relationships are between two people and I couldn't believe that somebody else was selling stories about, you know, very, very intimate details, you know, I'd and and I was shocked and I learned a lot about that, you know, about people and about the industry and about trust, I guess, you know, I I would have never have ever have done that to her or to anybody else, you know, and so it was, yeah, it was a real sort of learning curve for me.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Well said. That is so true because they are, it doesn't matter what the situation is, they are quite sacred.

• 43:50Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  And it's two people.

• 43:52Speaker 00

  Yes, yeah.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  And if and if there's no sort of harm done in any place and it was just a romantic night, whatever, why is someone talking about that?

• 44:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, I felt exactly the same, you know, at the time. And yeah, it was a shame. It was because she's a really, really lovely girl. She's, you know, but I couldn't quite believe that somebody would do that, I guess.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  How is your, how is your idea of trust changed?

• 44:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, I I I became sort of very wary of

• 44:28Speaker 00

  trusting people, you know, after that, because that was such a big thing on such a massive, massive scale. It was, it was everywhere. It was all over the newspapers, all over the magazines, you know, it became. You know, it became the main thing that, you know, in in every interview, you know, everybody just wanted to know about that and not about my brand new album, which I've worked tirelessly on. It was like, oh, that's a shame that I'm now, you know, sort of having to talk about this when actually I just want to be an artist. And yeah, that was, that was tough. And it really sort of made me re, it it just kind of made me extremely wary of.

• 45:14Speaker 00

  People in the industry, I guess.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  What, what, did, did, did you become anxious at the time? What, how does that, that, did you just, do you go into self, do you become quite, what happens mentally?

• 45:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, you, you become very careful about what you text people, what you say to people because, you know, you always, and, you know, if, if you're a single man as well, well, I, I was a boy at the time, I wasn't even an adult. Um, but you become sort of very, very wary about what you're saying to people because you're thinking to yourself, you know, they could sell this, you know, they.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Twist it and.

• 45:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, and, and, yeah, it was tough times at the time because, you know, I was so, so young as well. Um, this, you know, literally all happened before I was, before I was eighteen, you know, and it was just like, ah, this is a shame.

• 46:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, but even the words that you use in saying it's just a shame, it's just that you're, you're, you're just, you're so kind about that. And, and obviously for the things that you've been through and experienced, you, you, you have so much like forgiveness in your space. You're just like, it's a shame that that happened because, um, there, there's, you know, not even with that, but just with everything, there's a, um, there's a great quote, which is seeking revenge is like drinking poison and wanting the other person to die.

• 46:39Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  And what we do annoyingly in life, I think, is when we are felt wrong, wronged by or bullies are horrible to us. We remember it and we, we, we, we hate because that's the natural thing to do because they, they hurt you so much. But the most important thing to try and do is forgive.

• 46:57Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Because when you forgive, that's when you become free.

• 47:00Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  Otherwise it just eats you up and it feels like you have forgiven a lot in your life.

• 47:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, you, I didn't see any point in, you know, ho- holding on to grudges. It's, um, I've, I've, I've actually done the opposite. I've actually used, you know, all that hurt as a kid to make me a stronger and a better person. And, you know, everything that I've been through in life, I've just. Seen it as as character building and you know, I'm a I'm a much stronger, I'm a much I'm a much resilient person as a result of that.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  When you were releasing your albums and your your first album had huge success.

• 47:44Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 47:45Speaker 01

  Then the second album again, and then you had a little bit of a break, wasn't it?

• 47:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Before your third album.

• 47:50Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  And your third album didn't do as well as you hoped.

• 47:53Speaker 00

  No.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  If you've had so much success in the past.

• 47:56Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  You automatically expect that the next album is going to be as successful.

• 48:00Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  I imagine when it doesn't become as successful, what does that make you feel?

• 48:06Speaker 00

  It was just kind of part of the times and part of the journey. I I I, you know, think, I mean, it's, you know, it's disappointing when you've had so much success and then

• 48:23Speaker 00

  the album that you released after all that that success or the singles you put out, you know, don't go straight to number one, which they, you know, always did. And then you're like, oh, that's a that's a shame. But I

• 48:37Speaker 00

  um, but the next sort of batch of talent competition winners were out. You know, they'd already moved on to Pop Idol two, you know, they'd already moved on to X Factor, you know, and it I think that that's the nature of of the industry and particularly at that time, you know, where there was a brand new show, you know, sort of each and every year. Um, pretty also pushes you in different directions as well, you know, I then went back to my original passion of

• 49:12Speaker 00

  of musical theatre and and I think if you, you know, hadn't have been for that third album not doing as well, I don't think I'd have ever gone down that path, you know, which is led on to lots more, has even led, you know, on to me even even writing my own musical, which, you know, I think, you know, well, hopefully, um, touch wood, if it does well, will will be my legacy.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  I was watching earlier your and I and I saw bits of it, but I was watching the clips of your celebrity SAS.

• 49:45Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Which was just amazing. And Izzy was also watching one of the clips and it made us very emotional. When you're being interrogated and you you break down and start talking about the bullies and everything and it's just.

• 50:02Speaker 00

  I didn't have Chris there with me, so my speech was much worse. And, you know, being put into that situation, they're they're very.

• 50:12Speaker 00

  They're hard men and they know exactly how to get out of you, you know, what's under the surface and what's. And you're stretched in every way possible, physically, mentally, emotionally. And, you know, as soon as they start to tap into that, everything just. Comes out and it it was it was awful. It was.

• 50:37Speaker 00

  Celebrity SAS was one of the hardest things I've ever, ever done, you know, and those final stages where you're hearing these awful. Sounds in your ears and you're having to hold stress positions, you know, there were times you wanted to tap out, but. I just, you know, had to dig deep and, you know, all that was going through my head is, you know, this isn't as bad as what you've been through as a kid. You know, this isn't as bad as what you've been through as a kid. And, you know, and I think that's the reason why I sort of won the show.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  You said I was unearthing trauma and exposing scars I hadn't spoken about before.

• 51:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, that's I you bury things, don't you, and just, you know, hope that they're never. Ever resurfaced. But touching upon that, it was it was hard at first, but it then become very. Therapeutic and and and actually, since then, I've talked about that a lot more and I've dealt with it a lot more now.

• 51:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, which is, you know, in turn made me stronger.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  Because I heard that it was the first time you they offered you a therapist after the show.

• 51:44Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  It's the first time you'd ever been to therapy.

• 51:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I I had therapy for about six or seven weeks afterwards because, yeah, they. Expose things, they kind of dig up things you've put to bed many, many years ago, you know, and. It really, really, really brought a lot out. And, yeah, just, you know, talking to somebody.

• 52:10Speaker 00

  Is and what's by far the best way to deal with that.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Because as men, we don't talk about things.

• 52:17Speaker 00

  No.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  And and I've been very open about this and I I never spoke about anything. My anxieties, my things that I was feeling internally. And it's that's also a very lonely place to be because. Um. You think you're different and you don't want to even speak it, what you're thinking. Because you think you're going to be judged. And you're just trying to hide it.

• 52:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, and you know, all of those feelings. And if you actually find it hard to talk as it is, you never talk. And, you know, that's a uh that's a problem of mine, you know, I don't talk much. I don't, you know, sort of air what's in my mind. I keep it all in. And I think that TV show was the first time that they, you know, kind of picked up that scab. And then everything, you know, just kind of came out.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  I didn't even think of it like that, Gareth, where. The the the best remedy is talking, right? That's why we say like therapy is talking. But if you don't want to talk that much because you're almost afraid of talking, it's it's almost a double.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  That's right. That's right. Yeah.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  And can I can I ask, because if someone's listening right now, who perhaps is in that position? And they're having a really tough time and whatever they may be going through, what would you say to that person?

• 53:30Speaker 00

  I'd encourage them that being different isn't such a bad thing and it and it actually makes you. You, um, you know, and these. S scars that we bear and these, you know, sort of hard times that we go through. Um. Actually makes you a much better and a stronger person um in in the in the long run. Um, and a piece of advice I'd give to lots of people as well. Lots of people in the same in the same situation is to try and find the.

• 54:10Speaker 00

  Try, try sort of laugh at yourself at times, at times, you know. I, um, I have a funny story about, um, having a stammer. I was asked to present a TV award, um, at a TV award show. This was probably 10 years ago and, um, I was waiting in the wings, you know, and that for a stammer is a massively highly pressurised situation. You know, you have to open the envelope and call out the winner. And I said, oh God. So I'm there waiting in the wings. The presenter says, and to present the best daytime television award is Mr Gareth Gates.

• 54:54Speaker 00

  And so I come sort of walking on, um, and I begin to read the autocue and I said something like, uh, and the nominees for best daytime television programme are, and they showed like a VT. Then I opened the envelope and the winner was a TV show called Countryfile. Now, often as a stammer, it's, it's the first syllable of the word that you find hard. And so I said, and the winner is.

• 55:33Speaker 00

  It's, it was so bad. I mean, thankfully it was a pre-record and the director said, cut, cut. And come running up to the stage, he was like, what are you doing? I was like, do you mean what I'm doing? I have a stammer. And so then the next time I'd, I really hammed it up. And the winner is cunt, cunt, cunt, cunt.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  So where do your passions lie now? So you're, you're writing this musical, right? And you're going to write the other half. And when, when do you think that will be released?

• 56:07Speaker 00

  Well, we're, we're hoping for autumn 2027. Um, I'm, you know.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  So exciting.

• 56:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's really.

• 56:19Speaker 00

  Cool, actually, I, you know, to, it's hard to write something so personal and, you know, it, it has to come from a place of, of truth, you know, um, and I'm a producer now as well, I'm producing lots and lots of shows.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  Boy band in the buff.

• 56:37Speaker 00

  Yes. I train hard in the gym now every day and I have done for the past seven or eight years.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  And buddy, you look good. Yeah, I seen the top off. Look at you over there nodding.

• 56:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it was, it was actually Celebrity SAS that gave me the, you know, even more, more drive to train harder and be better. And then, yeah, it was only last year I was kind of coming up with ideas for shows and yeah, I came up with this idea, boy band in the buff. It's, it's all the big nineties and noughties boy band hits from bands like.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  So good.

• 57:23Speaker 00

  Backstreet Boys, N'Sync, Westlife, Take That, Boyzone, Blue, to name a few.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Five, is five in there?

• 57:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, lots of five in there.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Everybody get up, singing, wow, dude, that is unbelievable, dude.

• 57:38Speaker 00

  And it's my self and forward the lads, very, very talented boys who do lots of western shows, all sing, all dance and just so happened to look half decent without a top on. Perfect, perfect night out.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Wait, so who's your favourite band of all time?

• 57:56Speaker 00

  Well, boy band of all time.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, boy band of all time.

• 57:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I mean, I dreamed of being in, in Westlife when I was young, I just really wanted to be in Westlife and then I, I had absolutely no idea that Simon Cowell, like, created Westlife, you know, I had no idea before my first audition, just so happened I sang one of the Westlife songs in my first audition. Um, to the man that created it and, uh, and then, um, after Popeye, the Westlife were on, on tour. Um, and I performed with them at Wembley and I kind, kind of came up and, and sang one of their songs with Westlife. And I was.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  What, what is that like? Well, yeah. What is that like?

• 58:37Speaker 00

  It was just, you know, these were songs that I'd performed, um, you know, as a kid, you know, in my school talent show and to be singing with, you know, your, your idols were, yeah, it was incredible. But so now I'll be singing these songs, you know, every, every night now on this brand new tour, boy band in the Buffalo and all over the country. Um, we've extended now into the autumn of this year and into next spring.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you.

• 59:06Speaker 00

  Thank you for having me.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  Are you kidding me? That was just beyond amazing.

• 59:12Speaker 00

  Thank you for being so sort of open and, uh, you know, these things are hard for me still. And, you know, as you saw, I'm sure I started off very strong and then, yeah, but.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  I would disagree. I, I, just, I, I don't think there was a point ever which where the way was lost or something. Folted. I thought you were pinpoint perfect.

• 59:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  Truth, I, I promise you, maybe that's Chris.

• 59:36Speaker 00

  Chris, what do you think?

• 59:40Speaker 02

  I think it was a great interview. I think it was good. It went well.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  I think you were fantastic.

• 59:45Speaker 02

  And thank you for allowing me to interrupt.

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Anytime, Chris. You can stay there forever if you want.

• 59:52Speaker 00

  Um, thank you for, you know, having us as well because I, I absolutely know that me talking about my speech will, you know, will, will absolutely reach somebody on your podcast, you know, and it'll make a difference, you know, so just talking about it, you know, and raising awareness is a big, big thing. So thank you.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Keith, we like to end the conversation with eight quickfire questions.

• 1:00:17Speaker 00

  Okay, cool.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  Don't have to make them quick. We can make them as slow as you want.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up?

• 1:00:27Speaker 00

  Um, saying or phrase, I would have to say adapt and overcome. I've, I've, I've had to do that my in entire life. When, when you struggle with something, you, you know, have to be quick on your feet. You have to adapt, but still be sort of pushing to overcome and to push through whatever you're going through.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  Best compliment anyone's ever given you?

• 1:00:55Speaker 00

  Um, so, um, not long after Pop Idol, um, I was doing Comet Relief, actually. I, I did Spirit in the Sky for Comet Relief, you know, had a big hit with that for the charity. And I was doing some promo for that and I walked into a TV studio and Ro- Rowan Atkinson was there. Rowan Atkinson, Mr Bean.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:22Speaker 00

  And he came up to me, actually, he said, hey, I suffer the same affliction as, as you do. And he was really, really, really stammering and I was like, what? That's, that's, that's crazy. You know, all those big comedic roles that is done and comedy for a stammerer is the hardest thing because it's all about timing and you have to get the punchline, um, you know, sort of out with the right time. And I couldn't believe what I was seeing and, and hearing. And he then told me that the character, Mr Bean, was actually born from, you know, him not being able to speak very much. You know, and all that, uh, uh, Bean and, and, and I was like, what? You know, so that's another example.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:02:06Speaker 00

  Of a person that has a stammer, you know, about actually using that, you know, and, and, and then creating this, this character in the show, which is now worldwide, you know, everybody knows Mr Bean. And that's through him having a, having a stammer and that kind of blew my mind.

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  That's totally blown my mind.

• 1:02:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  That is so cool.

• 1:02:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, seeing, seeing sort of fellow person in the industry that's going through the same as you, you are. And that it's, you know, okay to be different.

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  What scares you most about yourself?

• 1:02:41Speaker 00

  Stammering live on television, that, that for me is my biggest, biggest fear.

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:02:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, it's still a big one, you know, every, every time I do any of the

• 1:02:55Speaker 00

  um, the live TV, you know, like this morning, um, on a rain, we did a few, a couple of months ago and fear level, you know, for that, you know, even, even years and years after is, is sort of hard work.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's so amazing that you pick yourself out there and actually do it, even if that's your biggest fear.

• 1:03:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I have to really, because, you know, as soon, soon as you start to say no to those things, things, things get even harder.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  When was the last time you cried?

• 1:03:25Speaker 00

  Um, the last time I cried was

• 1:03:33Speaker 00

  possibly last week, my beautiful, beautiful daughter turned seventeen, um, and we, uh, actually got her first car, um, and, um, she was like, really, really, really made up. Now she cried, I cried, we all cried.

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  What's something you can't let go of?

• 1:03:56Speaker 00

  Um, probably, probably, probably the memories of having to stand up at school and speak, you know, those, those will stay with me forever, I think.

• 1:04:08Speaker 01

  What's your guilty pleasure?

• 1:04:13Speaker 00

  My guilty pleasure would have to be boy band music.

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's phenomenal.

• 1:04:18Speaker 00

  I mean, it's the best.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  It's actually the best.

• 1:04:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I did a lot, a lot of research for this brand new show that I'm doing and, um, yeah, and it just kind of rekindled my love for boy band music.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  So good.

• 1:04:30Speaker 00

  It's, yeah, I, you know, I was, I was extremely fortunate that I actually grew up in that golden era of pop. Um, yeah, and it's.

• 1:04:40Speaker 00

  You know, I think at the time it was sort of criticised to be, you know, sort of too pop, but it's, it's, it's just brilliant.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  It's so good. I want it that way is.

• 1:04:50Speaker 00

  Oh, the best.

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  It's actually. I think generally, I think it's often like Let It Be by The Beatles. It's like, it's like, it's the greatest.

• 1:04:59Speaker 00

  That, that guy who wrote that, Max Martin, he, he's just an absolute genius and, um, you know, and yes, it's extremely pop, but it's, but he, you know, it kind of evokes an emotion and it's, and it's brilliant.

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  What turns you off?

• 1:05:15Speaker 00

  Turns me on arrogance.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  What turns you on?

• 1:05:22Speaker 00

  The gym.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 1:05:25Speaker 00

  Turns me on.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 1:05:27Speaker 00

  I just love it.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  What do you like most about yourself?

• 1:05:38Speaker 00

  That's a tough one. I'm not.

• 1:05:42Speaker 00

  I'm not, not the best at fi- finding things that.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  You're gonna have to say.

• 1:05:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, that I like, I like about myself. I don't know. Um, I'm, I'm actually gonna say my new teeth.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's great.

• 1:06:00Speaker 00

  They're perfect.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  Gareth, thank you so much. Thank you to Chris as well. Everyone needs to go and buy a ticket, um, to Boy Bands in the Buff. We're gonna leave all the links in the show description.

• 1:06:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, thank you so much.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  Are you kidding me? You're the greatest and thank you so much. Come back anytime. We adore you and you've been great company. So thank you so much.

• 1:06:19Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  You've been amazing.

• 1:06:20Speaker 00

  Thank you so much.